Did the Queen Mother and King George have a good marriage?

so-so

He was irritable and nervous because of George V yelling at him.

She was the tower of strength. However, dealing with a little boy for a husband was frustrating and she started eating to cope.

1/month for ten minutes

I think they were very well matched. He was crazy about her, she came to love him.

OP Do you ever open books?

She turned him down twice before she finally said YES

His mother had another man she was interested in, allegedly, sent out of the country with a foreign position. Braw James was no as keen on her as she was on him, however, and she opted for the man besotted with her.

She was more or less the making of self-doubting Prince Albert, as her mother shrewdly observed, writing to a friend after her daughter turned down Albert's first proposal:

"I like him so much. I do hope he will find a nice wife who will make him happy, for he is a man who will be made or married by his wife."

It's quite obvious how it went.

It was probably about as good as any of those arranged matches are.

According to Kittie Kelly, both QEII and Princess Margaret were turkey-baster babies. Make of that what you will.

He had a ferocious temper, cursed like a squadron of sailors, and yet he was a confirmed Christian. Killed himself via cigarette smoke and the devil in the bottle which were ever as present as the stress of being King. Handsome man at some point, before....

She was ruthless. Don't fuck with her! She said it herself (paraphrasing) "People think I'm nice. I'm NOT nice." Impressive lush - to see that old lady in heels with two canes while walking down the sidewalk while knowing she was drunk was impressive. "Although no one could ever say they'd seen her drunk, it was also widely known that she was never completely sober, either."

His father was the real piece of ass

Why was he and Edward VIII so skinny and effete looking compared to his father and grandfather, R9?

QE,QM was a commoner. But her status in the aristocracy made her acceptable to date, Bertie, The Spare. So in a sense she broke ground for other commoners, Diana, Catherine and Meghan, to marry into The Firm. The Yorks were happy with their two children until David stuck The Rod of the Royal Bedchamber into Wallace and 1936 and all of that. Bertie never expected to be king, but his wife took to it. God rest our Cookie.

They had a psycho nanny, R10, who was guilty of abuses against them. For example, when it was time to bring the babies into see George and Mary, the nanny would pinch the kids hard to make them cry hysterically. Exasperated by the behavior, their parents always told the nanny to take the children away. At that age, they couldn't tell their parents that they were being abused. They were malnourished, and I'm not certain but I think they had suffered from significant childhood disease.

R11, I would say that you need to take into account the backgrounds of the "commoners" Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Diana Spenser, Catherine Middleton, and Meghan Markle and the times in which they were raised.

Although technically a commoner, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was born into an aristocratic family at a time she was expected to make a good match and not cause a fuss. She did both. Circumstances forced her from the rather dull family life she, her husband, and daughters were destined to live.

Diana Spenser came from an aristocratic family, but she was born after the war. Her mother caused a scandal by running off with another man. I expect the Royal Family thought she would be like the Queen Mother -- dutiful and no fuss -- but they failed to take into account how times had changed and how her parents' nasty breakup would affect her.

Kate Middleton comes from (to British snobs) nouveau riche. Her parents were born middle class and made their fortune. She was raised hobnobbing with aristocrats . Nasty tongues would wag at the fact the family had a paved drive at their home (true aristocrats have gravel drives).

Meghan Markle is from a middle class family (though rather humble circumstances). As an American, I admire what I see as her successful, American Dream. Her mother raised her pretty much by herself. Through education, hard work, gumption, a little luck (and maybe her father's connection in the business), Meghan achieved a degree of success in acting. In certain British circles, that's not as much admired as it is to Americans.

Leaving aside what may be her faults (self-centeredness chief among them), Meghan Markle is the truest "commoner" of the bunch. And, I believe, as an American she never wanted a future life filled with opening a Tesco, keeping her mouth shut, and deferring to her husband.

Her poor daddy made like well over 100,000.00 a year. Thats not so humble.

If Meghan never wanted that, she should have taken the Queen's offer that she continue her acting career and not become a working royal. Funny how she was fine with doing the glamorous Royal shit while living most of the year in California, but she declined to do the day-to-day roles like visiting care homes, etc.

Let's not pretend that Meghan was some free American bird whose wings the BRF tried to clip. They bent over backward for her but drew the line at letting her scoop up all the perks while giving back almost nothing. That's when the tantrums started.

Oh, and let's not forget that her "neglectful" father paid for her education at Northwestern, money he could probably sorely use right now. Meghan's acting career came from her father's connections or her first husband's connections. Meghan got where she is by using people: I suppose that's a form of hard work, but not the kind you're implying.

Back on topic, the Queen Mum and King George had a good partnership. George was nervous, dim, and sexually dysfunctional. The rumor was that he had incurable premature ejaculation, and that's why Elizabeth and Margaret were conceived via an early form of artificial insemination. Also, his wife found him physically repulsive and encouraged him to take discreet mistresses, which he apparently did throughout their marriage. There were also rumors she had her own lovers when she was young.

However, she did prop him up wonderfully, even sitting in on most of his meetings with the PM and other government officials during the war. They knew that when they were talking to the King, they were really talking to the Queen, as he would do whatever his clever wife said. Without her, he probably couldn't have functioned as well as he did.

Not a conventional marriage, but certainly one that worked. Interesting that Prince Charles wanted a similar marriage with Diana, a good partnership where his wife was an emotional support for him while both pursued sexual pleasures with other people in private.

r13, thank you for fleshing out my statement.

.

r11

He was beautiful, and she was borderline ugly. Why would she find him repulsive? And what is the evidence for this statement?

R2, if Elizabeth was "eating to cope" she must have started at age two with precognition of what life with the dull retarded spare would be like.

So many chocolates. So many tummy aches. So much nasty belly cancer with the stinky bag secretly commenting on her true condition under her practiced grin and those velvet robes.

Poor Elizabeth.

Young Elizabeth Bowes-Lyons was considered an attractive and charming girl. She could easily have married someone else--don't judge by the beauty standards of our time.

You have to remember that George VI was a collection of terrible tics--and not just the stutter; he apparently had chronic facial tics, too. He was also physically frail and had the emotional control of a ten-year-old. To sum up, you have a man who twitches and stutters with every movement and utterance, has a frail little wasted body, an explosive temper, a dim intellect, and no sexual stamina. Lots of reasons to be repulsed by that.

I can believe she was charming and for that reason sought after, but her looks were ridiculed by contemporaries.

Once she was married, yes. But not as a young and marriageable girl.

That said, she was the opposite of Edward VIII (David)'s type: He liked thin, sophisticated, fashionable women, not plump English country roses. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon's family originally had ambitions of her marrying the heir, but that would never have happened for 2 reasons: 1) When David was young, the heirs still usually married European princesses and 2) he found HER physically repulsive.

For all his issues. George VI (Bertie) was a good catch for her. Even his younger brother had married a princess, but Bertie was such a mess his parents were happy that any aristocratic English girl would have him, especially the popular and charming Elizabeth. He had no chance of being the heir at that time, but a Prince was still a big get in the marriage game, which is why she finally accepted his third proposal.

*aristocratic Scottish girl in this case

QEII must have a spine of steel to stand up to both parents as a young woman and demand to be permitted to marry Philip.

[quote] Also, his wife found him physically repulsive and encouraged him to take discreet mistresses, which he apparently did throughout their marriage.

That seems hard to believe. He was pretty good looking, and also a devoted family man. I can't imagine this scenario.

[quote] QEII must have a spine of steel to stand up to both parents as a young woman and demand to be permitted to marry Philip.

I'm not so sure it was all that hard--I think this part of the story has always been exaggerated. By this time it would have been hard to find an appropriate husband for her who was any kind of European royalty (there were so few royal houses by this time), and he was a decorated British war hero as well as a Greek prince. Plus he was a Mountbatten/Battenberg, so despite the Nazi sisters, everyone knew their family well and felt they were interrelated enough to know him well and yet not so closely related they would have mutant inbred children like the Hapsburgs.

Who else would they have found for her to marry? I suppose they could have let her marry a British aristocrat like her close friend "Porchie" (the Viscount Porchester, later Earl of Caernarvon), but Philip was far more dashing and handsome and had more of an illustrious career when they married.

Being the Spare with a mother with cold teats as Queen Mary, I believe a little bit that Bertie married the nurturing mother figure he didn't have.

Cookie in her youth certainly doted on Bertie.

We know they bumped uglies at least twice

[quote] Meghan Markle is from a middle class family (though rather humble circumstances). As an American, I admire what I see as her successful, American Dream. Her mother raised her pretty much by herself.

I thought Meghan lived with her dad in her teens?

Yes mommy wasnt anywhere to be seen . And daddy had just won the lottery.

George VI looked okay in still, carefully posed photos. He was not great-looking in real life: contemporary accounts mention the tics, the sickly complexion, and the short, slight build.

It's quite possible the Queen Mother respected her husband for his devotion to duty and family without having the slightest inclination to fuck him. A man with his Edwardian upbringing might also have found it perfectly natural to adore his wife and have a mistress to serve his physical needs. These were not people inclined towards middle-class morality.

The best support I've seen for George's fertility issues is the fact that he only had two female children, and those came slowly. It took the Yorks 3 years to produce Princess Elizabeth, and then another four to produce Margaret. The Queen Mother was 30 when Margaret was born, and while that wasn't considered young by their standards, she would still have been expected to keep trying for a male heir for another decade, but nothing happened. Perhaps the fertility issues were on her end, but she certainly came from fertile stock.

While there's no way to know for sure, I'd find it believable that someone with Bertie's delicate mental and physical health might have problems in the bedroom. Even during the succession crisis when they briefly considered his brother George, one of the main reasons was that George already had two sons. Bertie and his wife were still young enough in 1936 that they could have had a son, but apparently, it wasn't seen as likely. Those in the know finally made do with a king who had two healthy female heirs, knowing they was the best Bertie would be able to provide.

*they were the best

Scattered pictures of the smiles we left behind; scattered dreams of one another, of the way we was

I’m surprised by a few of the comments here, which go against quite a lot of what I have read about the George VI. Far from being repulsive to women, George was known to have had several affairs with married women before meeting Elizabeth. He was shy and hesitant, but very attractive to the kind of women who like to mother a man. And he was attracted to that type of women too.

Elizabeth was admired by her social set for being great company, with an ability to make others feel witty and included. She was a people person. As someone said above, she was an English rose, a conventional girl who was pretty rather than beautiful. She was never going to be a fashionable woman like Wallis Simpson, but she despised them as much as they ridiculed her.

I think we place our modern interpretation on their personalities and relationship, which can be a mistake. Their marriage is in many ways a case of opposites attracting. She was fairly frivolous and amusing, was comfortable being the centre of attention, and in many ways would have been a more conventional bride for Edward VIII, who shared many of those characteristics. George VI was wracked with self-doubt, but was smart enough to realise that he would need a clever, strong woman by his side if he was to build a happy life. And when it was most important, he found the self-belief to pursue her even after she had turned him down.

They brought out the best in each other. His sincere commitment to doing the best he could as a public figure brought out a level of seriousness in her which not many had detected before their marriage. And her ability to make him lighten up and enjoy life, and her ability to place him at the heart of a genuinely loving family made him a far less petulant, hesitant figure than he could have been.

Her teeth......my god those choppers would have scared anybody.

I think Bertie was handsome. He had bedroom eyes. Man did not actually want to be King as we all know. I could care less that he committed adultery and drank and smoked cigarettes. In my imagination, nothing more, I think he had an understanding with the Queen Mother. He did the best he could with the hand he was dealt.

I think we can all agree he was no Colin Firth, just like the Queen Mum was no Helena Bonham-Carter.

There were always bored aristocratic wives who would fuck a prince for the social cachet and the access to perks. The husbands of Edward VIII's mistresses did very well out of the affairs, what with plum appointments and such.

And Helena Bonham -Carter was no Dr. Julia Hoffman.

Sorry, Edward VII's mistresses. Damn Roman numerals.

R7 - Ah the old turkey baster comedy. The Countess had had seven children. She was in her forties. But, somehow, she was DESPERATE to have a 7th and 85y, and, after seven kids, needed a turkey baster to have what the Countess called, "my two Benjamins". Of course, the common knowledge of change of life babies (my Mum's sister woke up up the duff at 46, thinking she was well past it). Then, of course, there's little Elizabeth sporting her father's chin . . .

It really is amazing what sort of shit people swallow.

Reading is fundamental, R43.

Handsome family

Margaret got the best features of both parents: Her father's large eyes and mouth and her mother's gorgeous coloring. Elizabeth was a clone of her grandmother, of course.

Who is George?

The Queen Mother was also alleged to be much prettier in person than in photos, and the standards were different then, as well. Her enormous blue eyes, beautiful skin, and daintiness would have met with much approval, and were set off by what even Wallis Simpson called "her legendary charm". It was also Wallis in her memoir who said, "I was aware of the beauty of her complexion and the almost startling blueness of her eyes".

It wasn't about taut muscles and who looked good at the beach in a bikini or in hiking shorts. She was enormously popular in her set and had received no less than five proposals of marriage before Prince Albert.

"Her charm was overwhelming," wrote an observer at a dinner party she attended.

It's ridiculous to judge by today's standards. She had what was valued then, both physically and characterologically.

It was she who found the speech therapist who helped her husband control her stammer. She gave him the happy family life he hadn't had in the bosom of the BRF - he'd had a miserable childhood, forced to wear leg braces at the age of five in hopes of curing his knock knees, and forced to try to write with right hand even though he was left-handed. He was terrified of his father, who had once said, "My father was afraid of his father, I was afraid of my father, and I'm going to be damned sure my children are afraid of me."

Hence, the stammer.

She gave him the cosy home life he had always dreamt of.

Each of them got what they needed and wanted from the union.

That's the recipe for a successful marriage.

Charlotte looks a lot like her great-grandmother the Queen, who looked a lot like HER grandmother the Queen, who, apparently, looked a great deal like one of George III's daughters. Those Hanover genes are strong.

Royal marriages are always as much professional partnerships as romantic ones. The successful marriages--Victoria and Albert, George V and Queen Mary, Elizabeth and Philip, George VI and Elizabeth, William and Kate--are those who WORK well together in addition to the love/procreation part of it. Charles and Diana never worked well--she pulled focus and he resented her for it. Margaret and Tony Snowdon never worked well--he didn't care about her royal work and she didn't care about his photography and social causes.

Fergie and Andrew never did much meaningful work together at all. You could say the same of Harry and Meghan, though the jury is still out on whether they'll last. My guess is they will if they can find a business or project they are both equally devoted to. Otherwise, no.

T41. I disagree. When the King’s Speech came out, I thought it was a rare case of the real life person being better-looking than the actor playing him. The same with Olivia Colman playing the Queen. Agreed on Helena Bonham-Carter.

I just realised that the twentieth anniversary of the Queen Mother's death will be this month. I vividly remember coming home from a school friend's party during the Easter weekend and turning on the TV to see that she'd died. How the fuck was that twenty years ago?

[quote]She was ruthless. Don't fuck with her! She said it herself (paraphrasing) "People think I'm nice. I'm NOT nice."

She grew up in Glamis Castle, folks. Remember the most famous Thane of Glamis and his adorable wife?

R33, the story actually goes that George V thought the sun shone out of QEII and firmly believed she would end up on the throne. He had no faith in his son David to produce an heir, and thought our Elizabeth would succeed David, and it would be a very good thing. I doubt he and Queen Mary would have wanted a male heir born once they saw how suited Elizabeth was to the role.

If he really adored his granddaughter, he'd have wished her a brother so she didn't have to spend her days as a living icon. Elizabeth would much rather have been a minor royal living in the country and breeding horses.

I don't know whether he adored her or not: he thought she was perfect Queen material. Keeping the Firm going is always the issue, and he knew David would be hopeless.

But certainly he was never horrible to her the way he was to his own children. 'Course, he was probably scared of her mother too.

Those strong Hanover genes which mercy provided the influx of 23 new chromosomes via Alexandra!

[quote]George V thought the sun shone out of QEII

George V thought the sun shone out of Princess Elizabeth of York...

Why did the submarine blush?

Because it saw Queen Mary's bottom.

Lesson re bullies:

When George V died, the still Duchess of York wrote to a friend:

"Unlike his own children, I was never afraid of him. And in all the 12 years of having me as a daughter-in-law, he never spoke one unkind or abrupt word to me."

Evidently, Bertie was a huge drunk. And he couldn't handle it so he'd make a spectacle of himself and everyone would agree to forget about it because he was the DoY.

But, of course, when you're looking for royal brides for you sons the Princes, you can no longer look to Germany after the WW1. So naturally, they gave the British aristocracy a chance - for the first time since Tudor days.

George V realized how lucky they were to convince Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon to marry his neurotic mess of a second son, especially when his neurotic mess of an eldest son showed no interest in making a proper marriage and producing an heir. He was probably deeply grateful that Elizabeth did her duty, propped Bertie up, and gave the monarchy a path forward via her eldest daughter.

Didn't George V die before anyone found out that David would abdicate. 1936 was the year of three kings.

R63, yes, George died without knowing of the abdication. However, he is famous for predicting that when he died “that boy (Edward) will ruin himself within a year).

He also expressed the hope that Edward would never marry and have children, so that nothing would come between Lilibet and the throne. As weird as it seems, he recognised very early on that she has the temperament for constitutional monarchy

[quote]So naturally, they gave the British aristocracy a chance - for the first time since Tudor days.

Queen Victoria was actually the first to allow it in hundreds of years. She allowed one of her daughters, the Princess Louise, to marry the Marquess of Lorne, who later became the Duke of Argyll. It was not a happy marriage, although the Marquess/Duke was very handsome. She then allowed her son Bertie's (later Edward VII's) daughter, also a Princess Louise, to marry the Earl of Fife, and raised him to the status of Duke of Fife.

R65 and that was one magnificent tiara.

R13 Meghan wasn't raised by her mother. Her father had primary custody. Her mother was in the Agape cult where you cut off contact with 'polluting' outside influences. The cultish quotes coming out of Prince Harry lately definitely sound like Scientology Lite.

The Duke of Argyll was a fag.

Here's young Elizabeth Bowles-Lyon, and I while obviously she's not supermodel material, she looks like someone who might be extremely attractive in real life, with her striking eyes and lovely skin. She had the good luck to be young when it was fashionable to be short and plump, and she had the kind of moderately pretty face that could be nothing or everything, depending on a girl's personality. The young Elizabeth reportedly had charm on the wazoo, as well as money, so I can see the girl in this photo being a hit on the marriage market.

And it's interesting that all these people saw Elizabeth II as a future monarch when she was a child. I mean it'd be easy to look good compared to her mess of a father and uncle, but yes, she really DID prove to be an extremely popular monarch, at a time when support for monarchies in general has been in sharp decline.

Victoria didn't allow the heir (or anyone with a hope to being an heir) to marry into the British aristocracy. They got more inbred Continental Protestants.

[quote] You have to remember that George VI was a collection of terrible tics--and not just the stutter; he apparently had chronic facial tics, too. He was also physically frail and had the emotional control of a ten-year-old. To sum up, you have a man who twitches and stutters with every movement and utterance, has a frail little wasted body, an explosive temper, a dim intellect, and no sexual stamina. Lots of reasons to be repulsed by that.

A result of all the inbreeding?

[quote]A result of all the inbreeding?

And the abuse and neglect he suffered as a child.

[quote] I vividly remember coming home from a school friend's party during the Easter weekend and turning on the TV to see that she'd died.

I trust you screamed properly?

[quote]"Although no one could ever say they'd seen her drunk, it was also widely known that she was never completely sober, either."

Now [italic]that's[/italic]how you want to be remembered.

She drank like a fish every day of her life and still managed to make it to 101. Quite impressive.

[quote] The Duke of Argyll was a fag.

The Duke of Argyll was NOT a fag, and I'm the dame who can prove it!!

[quote] Victoria didn't allow the heir (or anyone with a hope to being an heir) to marry into the British aristocracy. They got more inbred Continental Protestants.

But she knew they were fast running out of the latter, which is why she paved the way for heirs to the throne to marry the British aristocracy by allowing her daughters and granddaughters to find husbands within it.

R69 Great post, you hit the nail on the head.

Has anybody ever heard talk or rumours about the Queen mother being the victim of domestic violence? I have heard this twice over the years but find it difficult to believe, and I’ve never read anything that would suggest this is true. Many years ago I was on a training course about domestic violence and the trainer mentioned this.

[quote]she paved the way for heirs to the throne to marry the British aristocracy

She did? Is that why, when she had the power to do so, she made sure that any heirs married German princesses? What a mind reader you are.

Victoria let Louisa marry the Duke of Argyll because she didn't want her leaving England. The same with Princesses Beatrice and Helena, who were only allowed to marry penniless German princes who would make their homes in England with them. Albert married off eldest daughters Vicky and Alice as teenagers, and they promptly left the country (both died rather young). Victoria missed them terribly for the rest of her life.

George VI was not a shrunken shriveled little man. I fact, he became quite a good tennis player. And, of course, he could ride. The stutter and the facial tics and the self-doubt were all true, but the wizened little man isn't. Photos of him just dont support that. He also served much closer to action than his older brother in WWI.

The short temper is also, I think, on the money. It should also be noted that the stammer was nearly nonexistent in private conversations, it really emerged in public speaking. Unlike some other spares we could think of, Prince Albert really did NOT want to be his older brother.

Was he abusive during his tantrums and direct his bile at others like his grandson Andrew does with his staff and RPOs?

R26 Most of us, when young and in the full flush of desirability, have rejected a perfectly acceptable and attractive suitors for the most trivial of reasons. For women, it may be a subconscious evolutionary evaluation of a mate that makes them reject a seemingly appropriate guy. Then again, it may just be a whim. My niece refuses to date men without tattoos.

[quote] Fergie and Andrew never did much meaningful work together at all.

Which probably contributed to the downfall of their marriage, it has been said that over the first five years of their marriage they only spent around 40 days together. I think their post-married life has proven they don't dislike each other and are probably one of the most suited royal couples in history. They just didn't give themselves a chance from the beginning.

I think in terms of the job they also made a mistake made recently. Fergie in particular seemed to think it was her job to show off and entertain the press and wear expensive clothes badly.

Oh my God, r80... how withering!

Do you think King George ever said, "My cock is just too big"?

R80. He knows this because she did so and said do.

Some of the posts here are a little baffling. Far from being a weak, frail man, he was actually something of an athlete. He is still the only member of the Royal Family to compete at Wimbledon.

He was not a coward. He saw active service as a Royal Navy officer at the Battle of Jutland.

Physically, there was not much wrong with him except for digestive problems (said to be a result of his nanny starving him as a child) until he became king. At that point, he coped with the pressure of wartime by smoking and drinking too much.

It is true that he flew into rages at his staff, and it was well known that Elizabeth was the one person who could unfailingly calm him and cheer him up. However, his staff loved him and that seemed to grow the longer they worked for him. The people round him saw that he would try to do his best, even when it was at great personal cost, and they respected him for it. This is in stark contrast to Edward VIII, whose own private secretary wrote to his wife saying how much he despised Edward.

One notable instance of George’s temper and neuroses getting the better of him was when (at his own insistence) he made a trip to Malta during the war to thank them for their bravery during the famous siege. Despite his determination to go, his courage failed him as the boat neared Valletta harbour. In addition to his fear of public speaking, he also hated crowds and it became clear the whole island had turned out to see him, and he flew into a temper and said he couldn’t go up on deck. However, as usual, he did his duty when his staff told him he had to. That’s how things seemed to work: they coped with his temper, and he took their advice.

The abdication turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Edward VIII would've been a disaster as King. He was a mean, petty man and a Nazi sympathizer who didn't think Hitler was all that bad.

The King in Malta.

Oops

Yes, Edward VI saved the monarchy, even if he hated doing so. If that nazi-supporting twat Windsor had been crowned, the monarchy would have quietly ended some time around WWII. But George stepped up and did his duty and suffered along with the general public, and the public respected for him for it, and kept the dutiful man and his dutiful daughter on.

For Charles's sake, I hope he's learned from their example, but it may be too late. Elizabeth is widely loved and respected, but the institution of monarchy... less so.

"Fergie and Andrew never did much meaningful work together at all."

Oh please, those two were well-matched, because neither one believes in work or duty!

They have so much in common, they've stayed best pals, lived together, and grubbed for money together while never doing a day's real work, ever since the divorce.

[quote] Yes, Edward VI saved the monarchy, even if he hated doing so.

I think you mean Edward VIII.

Edward VI was the only legitimate son of Henry VIII.

^ I think he meant George VI, but thank you for playing your quoting, correcting fastidiousness....

He may have been healthy enough, but he wasn't a big, strapping man by any means. Here is with his daughter Elizabeth, and he's not that much taller than she is, and he had narrow shoulders and skinny legs. He had a big head, though, and that's why they could make him look robust in pictures.

All the Windsors were small until they bred in Mountbatten and Spencer genes. Princess Margaret was barely over five feet tall.

R98, Elizabeth looks to be in her 20s in that picture, which means George had been through the abdication crisis and the war and had possibly already had a cancer-ridden lung removed by the time that picture was taken. He looked much stronger as a young man.

George at Wimbledon.

The pic at R98 was taken in South Africa during the Royal tour of 1947. This was the same time Elizabeth made her famous 21st birthday speech from SA ".......my whole life weather it be long or short...." He was somewhere around 4.5 to 5 years from death in this pic.

^ Spell check made that mistake! Interesting vid, R101

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Here is a younger George in a swimsuit. More robust but still not a large man.

The future George VI in 1933. He was about 38 here. Still not a big guy.

Is anybody trying to argue that George VI was a "big guy"?

R107 The tral question is, what is the big deal about being "a big strapping guy" and why does not being one translate to a near crippled shrunken one?

He was a normal looking not particularly short or tall man, a decent athlete, and served and saw a tion in WWI at the Battle of Jutland.

Why the attempt to paint him as a little mouse because he didn't look like a star rugby scrapper?

And as poster above pointed out, against his retiring nature, he stepped up and did a very big strapping job.

And did it heroically.

The not-a-big-guy thread was in reply to a poster who said that basically George VI was a hunk so why wouldn't Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon want to fuck him?

George VI seemed a decent and dutiful man, but given his problems--tics, stuttering, stomach issues, explosive temper, limited intellect, etc., it's understandable why it took him three tries to get Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon to marry him, and that only after the BRF had the man she really wanted lured out of the country with a tempting job offer.

What happened to the abusive nanny? It’s crazy that anyone would abuse royal children right under the noses of their parents!

She was immediately dismissed once the abuse was brought to the attention of the King and Queen. No information on what happened to her after that--she was mentally ill so probably nothing good.

The replacement nanny, Mrs. Bill, was a warm and lovely woman. Because of her, Edward VIII had a faint cockney accent!

The King's brother Prince George, Duke of Kent was the pretty one. He was also bisexual. He died in WWII.

Sorry, bad link above. This should work

Bisexual and an opiate addict until his older brother David got him clean. Shows that even a selfish fucker like David did have family feeling.

His wife was Princess Marina of Greece. The most attractive and stylish of all the Royal women and yet they all liked her, which wasn't always the case. Their daughter is Princess Alexandra, HM's first cousin and oldest and most trusted friend, and a great public and DL favorite.

Not feeling for the whole family:

"there had been a mixed reaction from the Royal Family to Prince John's death. His eldest brother, later Edward VIII and the Duke of Windsor, said brutally that "the animal" had died and bemoaned the fact that the family had to mourn him."

Some say it's the only nice thing David ever did.

I meant helping his brother get clean, not calling his poor brother, John, an animal at r117.

But I'm sure he did call his dead, exiled baby brother an animal in the most polite tones possible.

R114 - It was the only truly selfless thing Edward ever did.

[quote] ^ I think he meant George VI, but thank you for playing your quoting, correcting fastidiousness....

And yet here YOU also are, fastidiously correcting me!

Pot, thy name is kettle.

Princess Marina has a hilarious moment in the last episode of season 2 of "The Crown" where she goes to the Queen to complain about the noise from Princess Margaret's renovations in Kensington Palace.

"BANG-ging and HAMMER-ring..."

Prince John most likely suffered from both epilepsy and autism. HM's uncle. Interesting documentary on youtube.

He was sent to live on Wood Farm on the Sandringham Estate, under the care of a peasant family. It was probably as kind a fate as he could have had. Wood Farm is where Philip chose to retire after asking Elizabeth to release him from his duty to her.

Lalla Bill, the nanny, took care of him at Wood Farm. He was not raised in a peasant family. Peasants didn't exist in 1910.

Princess Alexandra was the one who ended the practice of granting titles of nobility to commoner men who married into the royal family. Her husband Angus Ogilvy was the younger son of an Earl. Anne wisely continued her example.

What now? ^

Wasn't Marina a giant snob? I seem to remember reading that she was not happy when 'commoner' Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon became queen.

No links, R127, but I think she was a real stickler about royalty, precedence, the whole circus. I remember Princess Alexandra saying something like that in a documentary. I'm inferring when you're minor and dispossessed royalty, as the Greek royal house was, you're probably pretty touchy about your perks. Always thought Marina and Alexandra were particularly pretty names.

George and Marina were like the Hollywood version of Bertie and Elizabeth, very good-looking and charismatic. They had two healthy sons, too. George, former opiate addiction aside, didn't appear to suffer from the nervous disorders that plagued his two oldest brothers, and he was the brightest of the lot. Nobody cared about the bisexuality, as he'd proven his het cred with the public.

I can see why the Grey Men seriously considered making him king over Bertie and Henry, but in the end primogeniture won out.

I can certainly see why primogeniture won out, if they'd had Bertie turn down the throne for "reasons of health" or whatever the official reason would have been... that still would have meant two princes turning down the throne. It would have seriously devalued the monarchy.

As it happened, it wouldn't be long before the times would be right for someone who seemed to be unsuited to step up and do his duty, I can't imagine that George and Marina would have made as much of an impact during the war years as the awkward surprise king and his commoner wife. I mean, here's George and Marina, they look like characters in a Noel Coward play, I can't see them earning the public's respect by doing their duty when it was hard going, or having the touch of underdog appeal that made the Yorks so popular.

^ Excellent examples of the term "British hot" ie "Yeah, but is he HOT, hot? Or just British hot?"

[quote] I can't imagine that George and Marina would have made as much of an impact during the war years as the awkward surprise king and his commoner wife.

Can we just clarify that commoner means anyone not born royal or ennobled by a title. She was the daughter of an Earl, not the local fishmonger.

The title was created in 1677, the grandest of the family homes was a Scottish castle with origins in the 14th century, though there were four other substantial estates in Scotland and England, and her mother's people included ties to the Dukes of Wellington and Devonshire and a British Prime Minister.

So, yes, a commoner. With an uncommon pedigree.

Princess Marina came into the royal family after Elizabeth had been at it for years, and Marina wryly said that "her serene professionalism" set a very high bar for newcomers to match. That may have contributed to Marina's snarkiness. In the early years, Marina, born an HRH, referred to the Duchess of York as "that common little Scottish girl". But when the Abdication rolled around, the Kents like most of the rest of the nobility, realised how hopeless Edward and Wallis were, and lined up behind the Yorks, along with the old landed aristos like the Cecils and Percys.

You can't very well sniff at the woman who suddenly became Queen Consort of Great Britain and (the last) Empress of India.

Marina and Elizabeth ended by becoming cordial, both staunch supporters of the monarchy, and when the Duke of Kent was killed in an airplane crash during the war years, Marina became much more reclusive, mostly attending to raising her three children (Prince Edward, the current Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra, and Prince Michael).

As Marina was left pretty much penniless after Prince George’s death and mostly dependent on her reigning brother in law she was wise to dial back on the snobbery.

Yes, dear R132, we all know that Elizabeth came from the monied aristocracy, but she was still considered humble by the standards of the BRF, as well as short, dumpy, and witty, she was almost the opposite of what the public expected a queen consort to be. But the times suited her and her husband, as almost as soon as they were crowned they were stuck with leading the nation through a horrific war and years of economic depression, and they didn't make the mistake of making it look easy. Intentionally or not, they had enough of a "common touch" to keep the monarchy popular, during changing times.

Hell, I'm identifying with them now, as I've just spent two years stepping up to do my duty whether I like it or not. I'm an ICU nurse and there's been a plague on, I've done my best to save lives in a crisis, just because it had to be done. Some times a person is called to do something, which is an incredibly weird experience, but it happens and better to do what needs doing.

You're no Queen Mother, R135. Not in any way.

The Queen Mother earned eternal respect and admiration for her actions during WWII. The British Government wanted to evacuate the Royal Family to Canada but the King and Queen refused. Not only did they stay in England, they stayed in Buckingham Palace while London was being bombed in the Blitz almost daily. They were both nearly killed when a bomb hit the palace. They went out nearly every day to offer support to the bombed out areas, talking to the people and stepping over rubble. They were both very heroic and put themselves right in the middle of danger when they didn't have to.

Hubris much, R135?

And total respect for doing your job as an ICU nurse - but isn’t saving lives part of the job description, dear?

Fortunately most of them would have been unconscious while under her humble care.

Hutch Hutchinson stuck Marina, too, in addition to a Mountbatten, in addition to many other women AND men if the British upper crust. Dude must have been a machine!

Psst! r135!

r138 is calling you "dear," but I don't think she means it sincerely....

The first insincere dear was to R132 from R135, who granted was on the cross at the time.

One insincere dear deserves another.

There are several versions of this but

"The girls will not leave without me. I will not leave the King. And the King will never leave."

Hitler called her the most dangerous woman in Europe and detested her because of her popularity.

After Buckingham Palace was bombed and the King and Queen Mother were nearly killed, the Queen Mother famously said "I'm glad we were bombed. Now I feel as if I can look the East End in the face." She was forever adored by the public after that.

She was once criticized for dressing too grandly when she and the King would tour the bombed out East End. She replied that if the East Enders visited her at the Palace she was sure they would wear their best clothes. She said she intended to show them the same respect. Those sort of comments endeared her to the public.

iloved it.

The Queen Mother, or as she was then the Duchess of York, came down with whooping cough on her honeymoon. That’s got to be one of the best sex-avoidance illnesses ever. She became well known in her family for conveniently getting ill during a crisis.

^ That's true. She had flu during the height of the abdication crisis.

To make George king, they'd have had to pass over not just Bertie but thick-as-a-plank Henry, Duke of Gloucester. It would have been harder to find an excuse there: Henry didn't have kids yet, but they couldn't pass him over just because he looked like a pig and had the IQ of a slab of bacon.

They got Henry married to the pretty, charming, and incredibly well-born Alice Montagu Douglas-Scott, daughter of the Duke of Buccleuch, by putting it to her as a matter of duty. She had nearly drowned at the age of 14 and made a promise to God that if he saved her, she would devote her life to public service. So, she married the slab of bacon and they had the hot-but-doomed Prince William and the intelligent and dutiful Richard, current Duke of Gloucester.

When The King's Speech was released, the current Queen, with a few close friends and family, was given a special showing at either Windsor or BP. The British press reported that she told friends privately that she enjoyed it immensely and it was about 75 percent accurate.

It was an incredibly flattering portrait of the then-Duke and Duchess of York. I'm not surprised their daughter liked it.

On a South Africa visit, a Boer told her, “I’m sorry, but I really hate the English.” The Queen Mother zinged back, “I do sympathize. You see, I’m Scots.”

Watch the movie, fool!

Well there is an undisputed but not fully understood mind-body connection and some people do respond to personal stress with physical illness.

Meanwhile, I've always loved this photo. Two Queens of different realms showing mutual respect and affection.

She was a tacky, fat beast and he was 2 inches hard.

I wonder how the Queen Mum got along with the Duchess of Gloucester, the former Alice Montagu Douglas-Scott? They were of similar age and both came from old aristocratic families with big holdings in Scotland.

I meant to type mutual respect and admiration above, not affection, but if you look at that photo I guess either word works.

The Queen Mother was one of the few people who could drink Liz Taylor under the table.

The Duchess of Gloucester and the then-Duchess of York looked a bit alike.

Princess Alice was also the Aunt of Johnny Dalkeith, future Duke of Buccleuch, once considered a prime match for Princess Margaret. Alice was the current Duke's daughter. She actually married quite late for the time, around 34 when she married the Duke of Gloucester.

Her full name was: Lady Alice Christabel Montagu Douglas Scott.

She actually outranked Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon by birth. Alice's father was a Duke and descended in straight male lines from Charles II (although from the wrong side of the blanket). Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon's father was a mere Earl, although the title does go back to early 1600s.

Both the Queen Mother's sisters-in-law were higher born that she, as those things were reckoned then.

A mere Earl. What a comedown.

The Montagu Douglas Scotts had four main houses - Bowhill House and Drumlanrig Castle in Scotland and Boughton House in England. They also have Dalkeith Palace in Scotland which is let. They had a house in London as well - Montagu House, since sold to the government and demolished.

The current Duke of Bucchleuch is one of the largest land owners in Scotland. When Princess Alice was born in 1900 they were immensely rich - the Bucchleuchs had their own train which transported the family, their staff and their belongings between their various castles and palaces for each season. It was a different world, but they seem to have hung on to much of their wealth.

I wonder why Alice was unmarried at 34? She was pretty, intelligent, and from an incredibly wealthy and influential family. She should have been snapped up by some aristo when she was in her early 20s.

R164 - She was an oddly independent and also strangely spiritual sort. In her teens, she nearly drowned caught in a current in Solway Firth. During the experience, she is said to have told God that if she was spared, she would devote her life to public service. She was very well travelled, not a sheltered sort at all, and perhaps gained more sophistication. Perhaps the marriage to Gloucester, she felt, gave her that opportunity for public service. The death of her oldest son, Prince William, was a devastating blow to her, which according to by Elizabeth, Alice shouldered with great bravery. And, it made the youngest son, Richard, heir to the ducal title.

"The Queen Mother said of Princess Alice after her son's death in an aircrash in 1972: "The tragic accident was a great shock to all the family, but I feel desperately for his dear little mother. She has the courage of a lion, and has suffered so many cruel blows in the past few years...". Alice herself later admitted that following her son's death "I was completely stunned and have never quite been the same since."

She is the only royal bride ever to have worn a blush-pink wedding gown (Hartnell's word).

She sounds like quite a woman. A far better wife than ham-faced Henry deserved, but that's royalty for you.

Better ham-faced than ham-fisted. At least Henry doesn't sound like a self-absorbed asshole like brother David.

[quote]A far better wife than ham-faced Henry deserved

Why exactly?

There's a hilarious chapter in the Quest for Queen Mary book where the author goes to visit the Gloucesters and Henry is this sort of hilarious fossil, completely self-involved and incapable of taking in any idea unless it was broken down to its simplest proportions. There is one funny bit where he goes on about how Holland was a very stupidly shaped country.

I suppose if one were a fan of old-fashioned English eccentrics you might have found him fun, but frankly, he seems exhausting. James Pope-Hennessey found him rather endearing, though. So perhaps Gloucester was a good-natured slab of bacon, though a slab of bacon he was.

I wish Pope-Hennessey had been able to write other bios. And Quest for Queen Mary was brilliant, too. Prince Henry came across as harmless but yes, exhausting. Princess Alice seemed to have found a way to deal with him and keep her sanity.