West Side Story (2021) Now Streaming on Disney+ and HBOMax

Just watched it again! I stand by my sentiments! The Anita scene at Doc’s is just inferior in this one. Big time.

I'm halfway through, and I have to say it's surprisingly good. Even Elgort is absolutely adequate, and I loathe him. Kind of a shame it flopped so hard for all the supporting actors and crew involved.

The film is still doing great things for the people involved r2.

Mike Faist has gotten cast in another movie, Ariana DeBose has a lot going for her now, Rachel Zegler is Snow White …

The film got tons of Oscar nods too.

The song makes me wonder why they left that beautiful tropic island for grimy NYC and what do they mean you are free in America? Weren't they free in Puerto Rico?

There was a lot of poverty in PR with very little options. Here they have freedom to make choices and build a life they couldn’t in PR.

Yeah, free to wait tables and shine shoes

The original has a campy but gritty appeal, but I found the newer version so much smarter. The contrast between the Jets, who are total losers, and the Sharks, who have jobs and lives, is much sharper. The detail of New York’s neighborhood subcultures is precise. While I prefer Natalie Wood and maybe Rita Moreno, there is no other lead performance in the original that is stronger than the equivalent in the Spielberg version. I’d be extremely curious to hear from people who saw this before the original.

Everyone is terrific in their roles. The only bad acting was when Tony finds out Maria is dead (she isn’t). Ansel’s acting is bad in that scene.

And the Anita at Doc’s scene sucked in this one. Them making it Doc’s wife instead of Doc himself took away from the almost rape scene, and having the other women be present and getting shoved out the door to stand outside screaming and crying made it melodramatic and very soap opera.

The final scene in this one falls flat and feels rushed.

I didn't think I would like it, but I really did.

God, what a beautiful score. One of the best in Broadway history.

But Elgort can look very handsome from angles and then a total dork for others. He was good, but not as good as everyone else.

but the song contradicts that R5

Everything free in America -for a small fee in Amecia/ one look at us and they charge twice /what will you have though to keep clean? /12 in room in America/lots of doors slamming in our face/if you're a white in America . . .

The only true improvement is that the dance scenes with no dialogue or songs is shortened, and Mike Faist as Riff. He was brilliant.

[quote]The only bad acting was when Tony finds out Maria is dead (she isn’t). Ansel’s acting is bad in that scene.

I thought that was really cringy, too.

I also felt like Rita was only in it to get another Oscar. I didn't believe anything about her.

R10 the song is showing us two separate perspectives at the same time. The women are optimistic and see positive things in America while the men don’t.

The men weren’t wrong, and that’s what makes Anita’s character so sad. She’s shown as hopeful and optimistic, forcing Bernardo and Maria to speak English so they get better and live a better life in America. She knew you have to know how to operate around white people to make it here. Bernardo refused to do that though.

But by the time she goes to Doc she’s lost a lot of that hope. And then after she’s almost raped she loses all hope and optimism. “I am not American, I am PUERTO RICAN!” With tears running down her face.

it seems appropriate that it's streaming on Disney as it feels like an animated Disney version of WSS

[quote] There was a lot of poverty in PR with very little options.

Yes, you have to sleep twelve in a room these.

"In the heights" was so much better.

No. It wasn’t r16. But I did like it a lot more than I thought I would.

WSS has one of the best scores and soundtracks ever.

I remember when that overrated schlock LA LA LAND came out and the fanatics of that movie were claiming it’s soundtrack and score were better than WSS and it would have a stronger legend than WSS. The craziness. Lmaoo.

I liked the fact that they put this in historic context, that the neighborhood was being torn down as part of Manhattan's gentrification.

But Tony Kushner is so heavy-handed with dialogue. All the subtext is rammed in your face.

R18 agree. That is actually what was happening back then, and still happening as they filmed the OG film. Fun fact.

The orchestration was beautiful. Rachel Zegler was perfect casting; some critics said she was a bit too much of a princess, but I think you're supposed to see her through Tony's eyes. In any case, he disappeared onscreen in any scene they had together.

Mike Feist as Riff and David Alvarez as Bernardo were fantastic. Ariana DeBose also was quite good. And I loved the look of the 1960 subway system.

That said: it was a lot more inert than I thought it would be. Maybe it was watching it on TV as opposed to a theater, but the CGI was very ... CGI. And it was too long; the first 30 minutes could have been condensed to 10.

Is Kushner more heavy handed than Arthur Laurents or Ernest Lehman? This is West Side Story, not Cries and Whispers.

The biggest issue I have with a lot of movies that take place in the past is who they cast in the roles. Some of the white guys looked darker complexion, which is fine, but in 1950s (the film takes place in the 50s, not 60s r20) that very tan skinned guy wouldn’t have been in a gang like that.

It’s like when Spike Lee cast Nicholas Turturro as a KKK member in BlackKklansman, some historians even said a dark skinned Italian wouldn’t have been in the KKK back then. They were hated by most Klansmen too.

[quote] Some of the white guys looked darker complexion,

Funny that you say that because I was struck by a scene where a Jet grabs the hand of a Shark in close-up. And the "white" hand is much darker than the Puerto Rican one.

R23 yes. Some of the casting choices are a bit ridiculous. The OG was better in that it cast very specific looking white guys, all fair skinned. That’s how it was. They aren’t having George Zimmerman in the Jets.

In 2022 we call him white.

The inclusion of the tranny had me rolling my eyes so hard.

Anybodys has always been a character in WSS, since the original Broadway show.

Here’s what I said in a recent capsule review:

Dazzling in places and slack in others, and strangely feeling only infrequently musical (one suspects it was Robbins’ choreography that held the original together), Spielberg’s is still a handsome, sumptuous production. But WOW - the young actress, Rachel Zegler, is absolutely stunning in her film debut as Maria, amongst a stellar cast that includes the BAFTA-nominated Mike Faist as Riff, who in Kushner’s adaptation is a proper transposition of Mercutio, and Ariana DeBose as Anita (nominated for everything) of whom the camera can never get enough. If it never quite takes flight like the original - romance has never been Spielberg’s strength and too often the characters’ dancing lacks any destination - it certainly provides some compelling context, beautiful orchestrations and a surplus of fresh, often electrifying, talent.

R27 that’s wonderful! But I hold the final scene against Zegler.

[quote]But I hold the final scene against Zegler.

I thought Rachel Zegler was outstanding in every other way, but, yes, Natalie Wood was better than Zegler in the last scene. Of course, Wood had already been acting for almost 20 years and could handle the drama, while Zegler was 16 or 17 when she did it.

OP, if by “the entire [OG] ending is better than in the new one” you mean the 2nd half then I agree. I found the 2nd half tough going, felt like the whole thing ran out of steam. Sometimes slowing things down for a more realistic take, knocks the air out of the thing.

I was done disappointed that A Boy Like That/I Have A Love didn’t work better. Anita seemed like a hypocrite singing about Tony when we just watched Bernardo kill Riff. It was all staged a bit too deliberately.

I liked that Tony was tall but gawd what a potato face.

Moving America from being horny banter between young men and women on a rooftop at night to a LMM-style neighbourhood number in the morning did not work for me. I kept thinking it’s not even 9AM, I don’t think even the Puerto Ricans would be dancing like that, on the way to work no less. For a version intending to be so grounded in reality, It didn’t make any sense.

Plus the romance didn’t really work. By making Tony such a sketchy character, which was interesting, they lessened the impact of the romance. It all goes to show how delicate the original is; you start making changes, it creates an imbalance and you lose other things. The romance was too solemn and somber, it lacked the impetuousness of youth which is what the whole thing is about, it’s what ignites the piece.

R28, of all the incredibly experienced talent assembled on that set - Spielberg, Kushner, Kaminski, Moreno - the last person I would hold responsible for anything would be the young Zegler. She was absolutely lovely in the role.

R3 Zegler was cast as snow white before the floppage of this stinker. Bet Disney regrets the casting. Zegler aint a star.

I saw this in theaters and liked but didn’t love it. I find the original version more moving and memorable. Sorry not sorry.

How much money did the remake earn/lose?

R31 she’s to fault too. Clearly that’s the best take he could get from her and she didn’t emote in the final scene. Her “Don’t you touch him!” Was terrible.

I like the remake but it’s not better than the original overall. It does have certain things that work better, like the opening scene, Mike Faust’s “Riff” is great, I actually liked that they made Tony a criminal on probation in this, the use of colors etc.

I will say, the first half of the film is strong, but the film slows down in a bad way after Riff and Bernardo die.

The big Anita scene didn’t work in this one, and adding a bit of feminism to the mix definitely didn’t help. Making Anybodys a full transgender vs tomboy was a mistake too.

Rita Moreno seemed to just be saying lines. She didn’t even seem to care.

The final scene in this falls flat. That’s my biggest gripe. It’s RUSHED. It lacks the emotional punch of the 1961 film. Most of the characters are omitted from the scene. The way it plays out just doesn’t work. Watch the 1961 finale and then watch this one. You will see what I’m talking about.

Also, this Bernardo is a lot more tough and rugged, which works. But I do like George Chakiris as Bernardo too, his was more pretty and charming.

"will say, the first half of the film is strong, but the film slows down in a bad way after Riff and Bernardo die."

Oh man. Next time say SPOILER ALERT - not everyone has seen it - based on the box office alone you should know that!

R38 oh please.

Seems odd how they made the Sharks more a community defence force rather than a gang. Undermines the sense of futility of the two gangs found in the original. And also abandons the factual basis of the teen gang warfare which the whole show was based on.

In the making of stuff, Kushner says Anybodys was the first trans character and is a gender-fluid or gender-neutral role. So apparently tomboys aren't allowed to exist anymore.

I liked the staging of Krupke, but it felt out of sorts in what's meant to be this realistic gritty film, like what R30 said about America. In isolation, I enjoyed them both but they felt out of place in the film.

Again from the making of stuff - Kushner says he moved I Feel Pretty to the department store in response to Sondheim hating his lyrics, saying a young girl like Maria wouldn't use the words he chose. So by moving it to the store, Maria was repeating some of those words from the marketing displays around the store.

And not to lean too heavily on stereotypes - but I have trouble believing, for the Quintet, that there'd only be one woman per pew in the church. Had Disney choked off their budget by that point, and so they couldn't afford more extras?!

R40 they weren’t in a Church service. They were there on their own praying.

While you’re right about the gangs, being that this one decided to add a focus to the gentrification that was really happening at the time, pushing locals out of their homes to make room for white people from other places (I guess that’s always been a problem in NYC) it makes sense to change things a bit, and I liked that the each gang had more of a reasoning for their existence.

The Jets exist because the gentrification around the city has the Puerto Ricans moving into what was “their” areas, pushing them out. The Jets now are fighting for what they believe to be theirs, not realizing their hatred and anger is completely misplaced.

The Sharks exist because the Jets exist and wanna chase them out and destroy everything that the PRicans touch. It’s a chain reaction.

But I do agree about the factual teen gang warfare being omitted, which was the entire foundation of the original show and film.

R41 No, it was a church service

R42 ok, well it looks like an empty service. Happens sometimes

"Some of the white guys looked darker complexion, which is fine, but in 1950s (the film takes place in the 50s, not 60s"

I presume that the darker-skinned Jets were Italian, there would have been a lot of Italians in an urban-poor neighborhood in mid-century NYC. Jews as well, but the Jets probably wouldn't let them in the gang. And yeah, having the Jets be white kids of mixed ethnicity was realistic, but it did make them just a wee bit harder to distinguish from the Sharks.

In the stage show the two gangs are color-coded, with the Jets wearing various shades of blue, mostly denim, and the Sharks wearing variations on red and black. Funny, Spielberg used the color-coding in the dance scene but not otherwise, which IMHO was a small mistake. When a viewer turns on a movie and starts learning about two groups of characters, making them more visually distinct is helpful.

I think the Spielberg version is better than the 1961 version! Better cast, better acted, better cinematography, more life, more New York, more of a sense of a larger world that's totally invisible to the idiot kids who think that the whole world revolves around their fight over "turf". Zegler is miles better than the miscast Natalie Wood, and Elgort isn't as good as Zegler, but he's still a bazillion times better than the lifeless lump from 1961.

About the only thing that the 1961 did better was Riff's dancing, Faist is a far better actor than Tamblyn was on his best day, but he really was an amazing dancer, and Faist dance doesn't stand out. Well, maybe the 1961 version has another edge with the dance, since it saved most of Robbins's original choreography from the opening, where small groups of gang members encounter each other and the hostility ramps up into a brawl. Spielberg's opening with the Jets defacing a painted flag does set up the story better, but well. It's not Jerome Robbins choreography!

I'm halfway through the 2021 movie and have seen the original many times. The 1961 film begins with deserted streets, which worked as an abstract stage the Jets could dance through. By recreating San Juan Hill in such detail, the ballet scenes seem weird. You want to know much more about this piece of Manhattan that no longer exists and what it is the Jets were defending.

I was also puzzled by Rita Moreno's character. If she married a gringo and lived happily ever after, why is it the end of the world for Maria and Tony? There also seemed to be plenty of social engineering in how the Sharks were presented. They work; they take pride in their appearance; they treat their women well. Really? No one in either gang seems to get drunk or use drugs, which was the defining characteristic of guys in gangs.

And Anybodys, How much grief would a woman have gotten back then if she claimed to be a man? Wouldn't she be a target for rape as a way of showing her her place? Finally, Tony. He was in prison but he's a clean-faced choirboy who isn't trying to climb on top of this woman.

You can't modernize or fix this film without creating another series of problems. The story problems in the first movie could be ascribed to its fidelity to Romeo and Juliet. But that aspect of the story has gotten lost.

R46 the issue is you stereotype too much. Not everyone who ends up in jail is a rapist or alcoholic or druggie. Tony was jailed for almost beating a Hispanic to death. Had nothing to do with alcohol or rape.

This is a remake of the original Broadway show. Not a series or soap opera, where we can see what’s happening in every characters home. The only characters we see the perspective are is Tony/Maria and Riff/Bernardo and I suppose Anita to an extent. You’re wanting to see what’s happening in each persons home as if this isn’t a movie musical. Not a fucking soap opera.

Also, the Jets and Sharks are way too self aware and always alert because of the other to run around drunk.

Lastly, this takes place over a few days. Everything moves fast.

Also, Rita Moreno and Doc didn’t live happily ever after. They faced many struggles. She tells Tony him dating a PR girl is going to make his life harder. And that’s the truth. I come from a PR family. This idea that they were treated with respect and the same is one of the biggest lies ever.

Doc is dead. Just because she is an old lady who they all respect because they’ve been around her their whole lives doesn’t change their racism. She didn’t have to deal with them, they were kids. She had to deal with their parents and grandparents.

And she also had to deal with Chita Rivera whom, as before, has been excised from this film version!

I don't get the grief here for the Anybodys character though it figures, given the anti-trans contingent on this site.

What do you think trans, FTM people were referred to as previously? "Tomboys." Duh.

I can't believe all the grief trans people get on a gay site. It's as ridiculous as homophobic black people.

I thought Tony had far more sexual chemistry with Riff than with Maria.

When Tony and Riff were alone in the basement, talking, touching, and dancing, I thought they were going to kiss.

Compared to them, Tony and Maria seemed like brother and sister.

R50 because Tomboys were also just Tomboys. Girls who likes boy stuff. But they were girls. That didn’t mean they were trans.

[quote] What do you think trans, FTM people were referred to as previously? "Tomboys." Duh.

What? Ever hear of butch??

Some tomboys are lez, some are straight, a tiny minority attempt to transition. They were, are, and always will be women. Stop detailing the thread so you can spew your pet issue.

We had never seen the show before, so we were shocked at what a fast girl Maria was. Always making the first move with boys. She made Rizzo seem downright virginal.

Moving in to kiss a strange boy within seconds of meeting him? Bedding him in an act of wanton whoredom?

My hubby and I were hoarse from screaming "HARLOT!" at the screen.

Yes R53 - and the world as you see it is FLAT! Forevermore!

Does mean that gay men are women too? Because that's what homophobes used to say. Y'know, "God didn't create Adam and Steve...," etc. It must be true if they said it. Because I'm sure homophobes know TONS more about what it's like to be gay than actual gay people do, y'know. Gay people need the homophobes to make these life decisions for them because only they know best.

Let's keep talking about WSS, not transgender people.

R48 Yes we know you are “Rican” Brooklyn seacow Ed.win. You also mentioned your family are all republicans who are against abortion..::

The new book is pretentious junk, including Anybodys as a trans character. Mike Faist looks and sounds like he belongs in a gay bar, but his dancing is fantastic. Elgort is too old and not at all sexy as Tony, has no chemistry with Zeglar, and his songs have been reorchestrated from tenor to baritone, which ruins their magical qualities. The Moreno character is pointless, and WHY does she get "Somewhere" when it appears she has had a long, happy marriage with Doc, a Gringo? The final scene is awful and misses the emotional moment totally. I know this is a minor opinion, but the film just does not work.

R59 AGAIN, because her and Doc loved each other but that doesn’t mean they didn’t have struggles and others weren’t happy with them together. She knows Tony and Maria getting together will lead to issues!!! You have no critical thinking skills whatsoever.

r60 How the hell is that critical thinking, duh? There is zero suggestion in the film that they had problems. Moreno is only in the film for publicity purposes; remove her, and nothing much changes.

It’s not critical thinking. You’re right r61. But it may need to be for some people like you.

It’s not said straight out, but it’s implied. Read between the lines. Oh wait, you can’t.

r63 The lines you are reading between don't exist; it's a mistake to give the song to a non-entity, and it undermines the film's conclusion. And why can't you respond without personal insults when none are called for?

Actually, for the OG production of WSS, none of the white people were olive or tan. They were all fair skinned Irish or WASPy looking. No Italian looking types.

The issue was a lot of the people cast for PRicans were… white also. So they had to use colors so you know who is who.

The kid playing Baby John in this new one is super cute

Say what you want about Ansel, his singing voice is beautiful, and I loved when he went into a lower register.

"I was also puzzled by Rita Moreno's character. If she married a gringo and lived happily ever after, why is it the end of the world for Maria and Tony?"

Presumably, it was because she married a respectable businessman, and not a gang member who wastes his life in a pointless struggle over "turf" that neither gang actually owns.

Marrying someone that your family and community regard as an "other" is difficult at the best of times, but most families and communities won't kill you for it.

R66 is correct, Elgort's singing voice is very nice, a big undertrained and his focus could use some work (common with actors), but the flaws worked in context. The score is semi-operatic, and it's very difficult to translate semi-operatic scores to film, because the characters have to sound human. Trying to capture that human quality failed in "Les Miserables", and I think Spielberg hit the right balance between doing justice to the score, and having the characters come across as relatable human beings while singing.

I'd like to give the sound editors some praise, one of my pet peeves about the 1961 film is that the grand four-part pre-rumble ensemble sounds muddy and you just can't hear most of it, but it's crystal clear in this version. Well done, sound editors!

I don't doubt that the social engineering made the movie more palatable to some. It didn't make me hate it. I just thought it was heavy-handed, well-intentioned liberalism.

Anybodys isn't just a woman who wants to be a gang member. She's a better fighter than any of them.

Every single Jet is a shlub. They were cast to look like greasy losers. Every single Shark is well-dressed, hard working and upwardly mobile. I think there's some suggestion the Sharks have a close knit family structure while the Jets don't. Sterotype much?

My desire for backstory was likened to wanting "a fucking soap opera." But I'm not the one who brought up $500. resettlement checks, urban renewal, the desire for Puerto Rican independence, bias in the criminal justice system, and the prospect of Lincoln Square turning the neighborhood upside down. That made me wonder: If this is a slum about to be bulldozed, why does it have a thriving commercial area? Why,, along with the charming rowhouses, are there fields of rubble that look like Berlin after the blitz? How did that happen? There's a simple way to avert these questions--turn down the sociology lectures and keep the settings sparse and abstracted.

Saying the Jets, in particular, are too alert to get drunk or high is bullshit. The original portrayal of the Jets was a mite ridiculous but pretending they get high on life is idiocy.

Finally, if you want to show that marriage between a white person and a brown person is impossible, don't make a successful example of it into a main character. Have someone talk about falling in love years ago but walking away from it.

My point is that the book has problems. So does the set-up for some scenes, too--hey, watch the watermelons roll out of the truck--but not as many.

OMG NO ONE SAID A MARRIAGE BETWEEN A WHITE AND NON WHITE IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!

A white and non white married causes some issues, and Valentina is telling Tony someone like him doesn’t need anymore obstacles and trials in his life. It’s a lot easier for two white people in the world.

[quote]Anybodys isn't just a woman who wants to be a gang member. She's a better fighter than any of them.

God that part was just so dumb. She can fight off a bunch of Jets at once, and yet then later lacks the strength to drag Tony away.

Well fighting and dragging aren’t the same.

She also outran the cops easily.

Interesting comments.

I was so disappointed when they moved AMERICA to the streets. I loved all of the Jets and their dates on the roof in their best clothes all presumably hot and keyed up right after the dance.....it just makes more sense to me.

And other posters here are correct. When Rita Moreno's Anita spit at the boys as she's leaving Doc's store - she was vicious and looks at them with hate in her eyes and body language: "I got a message for your American buddy. Tell him Chino found out about him and Maria and shot her. She's DEAD!"

In the new one - Anita is almost bland in her line readings.....I missed the FIRE and purpose of the visit.

Dios Mio!

Of course I meant the SHARKS!!!!!

[quote]I was so disappointed when they moved AMERICA to the streets.

I agree. It lost its entre nous element, them airing dirty laundry between friends.

Also, when I saw all those people dancing in the intersection, I thought, "New Yorkers don't go for that shit. They would run you over."

I always thought Anybody was a 'tomboy', but also available, for anybody.

r68 But as I said previously, changing Elgort's songs from tenor to baritone robs them of the wonderful, soaring lines that would exist had they not done this. Why not hire a tenor in the first place? It's not as if he's so magnetic and such a great actor.

R12 bitch didn't deserve the first one

Rita deserved the first one

It looks like the CGI cityscape for the opening number was leftover from Saving Private Ryan. A nod to the fact the 61 film’s opening was shot in the condemned San Juan Hill neighborhood before it was torn down to build Lincoln Center is a nice inside-baseball touch, but urban renewal doesn’t look like war-torn Dresden with people still living in and around half destroyed buildings. The entire neighborhood was vacated before a much more orderly demolition process began. Also, San Juan Hill was primarily an African American neighborhood. WSS takes place to the south, in Hells Kitchen where poor Irish & Italians lived before the Puerto Ricans moved in.

Just now finished watching (credits rolling) and while I liked it I didn’t love it. The music is sensational. Loved the more balletic fight scenes in the original. Didn’t need to be be remade. Didn’t add anything really.

And, the original had George Chakiris. Black suit with purple lining. Can’t improve on that.

10 minutes was it.

Chakiris was so handsome.

Sally Struthers has appeared on two recent podcasts and was brutally candid regarding what a cunt Rita Moreno is.

They starred in the female version of The Odd Couple on Broadway.

Moreno is just blunt and gives no fucks. She’s PRican. She needed to be a cunt to make it. Good for her.

[quote]She needed to be a cunt to make it.

And yet she continued to be a cunt once she had made it.

The original was such a beautiful movie to look at, from the vibrant daylight opening to the energetic exotic looking dance scenes to the coldness of the city night.

The remake is ghastly by comparison. Musicals have suffered the worst in the digital era, because the genre is not suited for these drab, horrid color schemes. The numbers are drained of whatever energy they have because they're appalling to look at.

[quote]The Moreno character is pointless, and WHY does she get "Somewhere"

It's burned Rita's ass all of these years that she had to play second to Natalie Wood. This remake and her performance are her ways of settling scores. She's can't get the lead, but she wasn't coming in without some big payoff.

If you view her Twitter page in the last few weeks, she's acting like the whole remake was her idea. Even going so far as to refer to Spielberg as "her partner".

Rita and George both won Oscars had much more heat, intensity and passion than David and Ariana.

Chakiris showed how it was done!

r87 so right on!

I watched it today and found it disappointing. If a remake is not better than the original, why bother? Surely Spielberg knows this and I wonder if at some point during filming, editing, whatever, if he realized that he made a mistake in remaking a classic. Maybe now he knows?

Chakiris and Alvarez are both terrific but very different Bernardo’s.

[quote]Musicals have suffered the worst in the digital era, because the genre is not suited for these drab, horrid color schemes

It was shot on film, so not sure why the "digital era" is relevant here

r91 agree...why bother? And the new book is ludicrous.

R91 and a remake that didn't find an audience!

R34 as of March 2, 2022, after nearly 3 months in release its domestic gross was $38M. Uncharted made $88M in 2 weeks

Why are you comparing a video game action teen flick to a musical set in the 1950s?

R97 not comparing contrasting. The remake of Death on the Nile has so far grossed $34M in 3 weeks and House of Gucci released a couple of weeks before WSS has grossed $54M. WSS bombed no matter who or what you compare it to with the exception of the musical Dear Evan Hansen.

And it had a budget of $100 million.

DeBose, Faist, Alvarez, and surprisingly Elgort were all great. Zegler was wonderful until she completely botched the last scene - I can’t believe that Steven Spielberg wasn’t able to get a better take from her than that, WTF?

I don’t care whether Anybodys is tomboy or trans, but their clunky scene in the police station was terrible. Single-handedly fighting off 3(?) armed police officers? Kushner should have known better.

Moreno was ok. Having Valentina teach Tony Spanish was a nice touch, but having her wreck “Somewhere” was not.

And while I get this version needed to be more even-handed, losing most of the specific Jets secondary characters - outside of “Krupke” - felt like a loss. It got a ton of praise in reviews, but I hated this version of “Cool” - most of the Jets weren’t even there, and the Jet girls, who were so prominent in the original staging, were cut completely.

My portrayal of Maria is iconic.

I liked Elgort's portrayal. He also has a wonderful singing voice. He was referred to as a "Polack" in the film. Elgort has not only height but also an eastern European heavy brow. He was perfect IMO. His portrayal was superior to that of Beymer.

It’s not hard to be better than Beymer. He is often considered the worst thing about that film.

[quote] Oh man. Next time say SPOILER ALERT - not everyone has seen it - based on the box office alone you should know that!

Hope you were being cynical. West Side Story is a classic. That would be like screaming SPOILER ALERT at Old Yeller (yes, they kill the dog), Bambi (yes, the mom dies), Psycho (yes, the female lead is stabbed in the shower), The Crying Game (yes, she’s a he), Hamlet, or for that matter, Romeo and Juliet.

Zagler’s voice is lovely but her acting borders on high school amateurish. She emotes mostly with her eyebrows, which is a thing singers lacking acting experience tend to do.

R105 agree. All the praise for her is a bit absurd. She’s cute and a good singer and was fine at the cute scenes, but not that good at the dramatic scenes.

[quote] but the song contradicts that [R5]. Everything free in America -for a small fee in Amecia/ one look at us and they charge twice /what will you have though to keep clean? /12 in room in America/lots of doors slamming in our face/if you're a white in America .

The entire purpose of the song went right over your pretty coiffed head didn’t it?

R104, And the ruby slippers had the ability to send Dorothy home all the time.

OMG R108!!!!

HOW DARE YOU NOT WARN US WITH A SPOILER ALERT!!!!

Now you’ve ruined The Wizard of Is for me!!!!!!!

And you can punctuate it!!!

I missed the Daddy-o lingo.

I and Velma ain't dumb.

I just started watching it and think it's good. I can't help but feel sad thinking that a young Patrick Swayze would have been PERFECT in the role of Tony! I haven't thought about him in a long time, but this movie made me remember him for some reason, and think how great he would have been in the role (when he was younger). Too bad that he was born too early, and he died too early!

Patrick wasn’t even born when the OG came out

I meant the remake. The Young actor reminds me of him.

[quote]I liked Elgort's portrayal. He also has a wonderful singing voice.

How much of that singing was him and how much was dubbing or digital helping in post?

[quote]I just started watching it and think it's good.

It can't be that good if you're already on the Internet after it just started.

R114 everyone had to sing their own parts.

[quote]everyone had to sing their own parts

That doesn't mean it wasn't sweetened later.

Natalie Wood sang her own part. But you didn't hear any of it in the final film.

Elgort's voice was lowered to baritone from tenor, destroying the soaring nature of his songs.

R117 lmaooooo ok

Every song is sweetened. Even artists like Adele.

R111, if you had offered Patrick Swayze a "WSS" when he was the right age, betcha he'd have wanted to play Riff and not Tony!

Swayze was a dancer more than a singer, and Tony is primarily a vocal role. Everyone in the show dances up a storm except Tony and Maria, who stand there and sing, except for a little bit of a slow dance when they meet.

R107 um no it didn't. Try reading through the thread which seems to have gone over your bald head.

Yes, for some reason, in the new film the Shark guys seem to have more on the ball than the loser Jet kids.

Which is NOT a compliment to the Puerte Rican community. Guys who are on their way up and possibly out are still throwing their lives away in street gangs?

They aren’t throwing their lives away, nor are they in a gang for no reason. The gang is there to protect their homes and businesses, as well as people, from the Jets. If they ignored what was happening the Jets would cause chaos and ruin everything.

Ah yes, it's all the fault of the Jets and the Sharks are blameless. Not like Bernardo agreed to a Rumble out of the anger of his sister being attracted to a Polish guy.

They were gonna challenge him regardless.

And he could've said no.

R126 spoken like a white sheltered middle class guy.

He isn’t saying no, and there are reasons for it.

Stay in your lane.

ohhh, tough guy on a message board.

you stfu, beaner!

whacha gonna do to me?

Yo you have serious fucking mental issues.

r127 does.

deranged clean up on aisle r128

R127 Out of all your pathetic responses trying to defend the flaws in this film, this one is truly the most pathetic.

By removing the gang element from the Sharks, Kushner left behind gaping holes in the story which he didn't even attempt to fix. Bernardo's behaviour only makes sense if he's also a gang member. Otherwise, he just comes off as a moron.

My problem with the new one is that by recontextualizing the issues with the original, it takes away from the absurdity of a musical. By making it more believable, the movie makes its harder for me to suspend disbelief.

But the Sharks are depicted as a gang. A gang Chino begs to join. A gang defending their stores and homes from the white guys who believe it belongs to them.

A community defence force is not a gang.

They’re a gang.

They're a gang, a gang who in this film maybe delude themselves that they have a higher purpose. But really, all they do is fight the Jets and other gangs in pointless battles over "turf", and if you ask the local shopkeepers if they need a gang to defend them, they'd say "Those idiots ruining the neighborhood with their fighting and crime".

All gang warfare over "turf" is idiotic, because nobody thinks they own the turn except the other gangs. It's pure territorial aggression, over land that is owned by the city, or other people who have nothing to do with the gangs.

The problem with both movies is for the major plot points (gang warfare, sudden intense love) to make any goddamn sense everyone involved needs to be around 16. In the first movie they all look almost 30, here early 20s — which is a slight improvement but still too fucking old for all the juvenile idiocy that occurs.

I also liked it, but did not love it. Pluses were the cinematography and editing, Faist, Alvarez and especially Zegler, who i thought was luminous. Elgort sang it well, but had zero charisma and was 100% unbelievable as being someone the rest of the gang would either follow or toss away their guns because they had him to back them up. I also noticed major autotuning in a few of Elgort's songs, and it was all over Gee Officer Krupke.

Minuses- the changes from the original structure were useless and laughable. Rita Moreno's character was a huge drawback, and giving her "Somewhere" was unforgivable. Her character didn't earn it, and Spielberg took (arguably) the best song in a nearly flawless score and wasted it. Hated, hated, HATED the tranny and spending so much time and focus on it.

And sorry to be in the minority here, but I do NOT get the love for Ariana DeBose. It's not that she was bad, but she was giving a STAGE performance (and everything that goes along with it, including projecting her Charo-esque accent to the 5th balcony) while everyone else was giving a film performance. Yes it made her stand out, but for me it was in the all the wrong ways. This is the third thing I've seen her in and I'm completely at a loss to understand what is so special about her. I can't believe she's going to get an Oscar for this.

Ultimately, I'm at a loss as to why Spielberg made this, what he thought he could accomplish with a new version (which I'm assuming he didn't, because it felt pointless), and why we wouldn't just seek out the original instead. I didn't have a terrible time, and I like seeing new actors I find talented, but it's not enough.

I just watched it. I’m very familiar with the score, but not so much with the book. I don’t think I’ve ever sat through the original all the way through.

That being said, I really liked this movie a lot-especially the first two thirds. Maria was darling and has the voice of an angel. Anita was pretty great, and Bernardo was hot as fuck. The dancing, though not as clever as the original choreography, was still absolutely riveting-especially America and Dance at the Gym.

The orchestra was just brilliant-on par with Bernstein’s symphonic recording. When I saw Dudamel had conducted it, this all made sense.

I thought musically, it was quite good as well. I’m not sure who the music supervisor was, but the vocal direction was pretty great. Little nuances with placement, diction, articulation, etc. that most people wouldn’t even notice were pretty spot on.

I didn’t love Tony, but I didn’t hate him, either. His voice was mostly appropriate for the character, and he sang pretty well. I wish he had a fuller, more operatic top, but I kept telling myself his voice was probably more suitable to the character. I couldn’t tell what he was supposed to be. A pollack who beat someone to death and then reformed in prison? I didn’t get any of that vibe from his acting except when he was beating Bernardo to a pulp. And it seemed like he kept going I. And out of some kind of accent. That’s the directors fault, though. I thought the actor was decent. (He didn’t have much chemistry with Maria, though.)

My biggest issue was how ridiculous the last act is. Anita identifies Bernardo’s corpse, Maria gets her cherry popped, and after forbidding Maria to see Tony anymore, she acquiesces and they decide you can’t help who you fall in love with…all in five minutes. So stupid.

The scene with Anita getting manhandled was all over the place. And the final scene with Maria’s breakdown and Tony getting carried off like Jesus Christ Superstar…stupid.

And I hate Rita Moreno.

Despite all that, the first 2/3 made up for the last. I’ll watch it again and probably get the soundtrack.

[quote] HATED the tranny

R139 Is there a transvestite in this movie?

Anybodys is played by a real life Enby and I read an interview where it talked about how the character was redrawn as trans/non-binary.

[quote] I’m not sure who the music supervisor was, but the vocal direction was pretty great.

Jeanine Tesori was credited as vocal director.

[quote] Anybodys is played by a real life Enby

The dancing, choreography and atmosphere can't compare to the original

Didn’t many of the people who worked on the OG movie work on this one too?

R146, Do you realize how old they would be now?

R147 as old as Rita Moreno, who worked on this new one?

R148, She's 90, you moron.

R146 Harvey Evans, Bert Michaels and David Bean appeared as extras as two security guards in the department store, and the owner of the fabric store in America respectively

I’m not speaking about in front of the camera. I’m speaking about behind the camera. Seriously.

R151 Like who?

tales from the crypt...

John Williams, who was a piano soloist for the 1961 films soundtrack, was the music consultant on this one.

Steven Sondheim was also a consultant on this film. He Worked on the 1961 film. He vocally preferred this one after seeing it before he died.

Of course we all know Rita Moreno acted in both films.

Actually fun fact, when Spielberg contacted her and asked her to do this film she declined because she assumed it was just a cameo and she refused to do a cameo role for a film she was so famous for. He then let her no it was a supporting role, and he reworked the Doc role to be a woman instead, and she accepted.

Mike Faist's portrayal of Riff has been singled out as a highlight by many fans and critics with much praise going to how he captures Riff's dangerous side and volatility but also his vulnerability and charisma, even earning praise from former Riff actor Russ Tamblyn.

I am still upset the Academy didn’t nominate him.

“Stephen Sondheim, as the only one of the four creative minds behind the original show who was still living during the film's production, was involved throughout filming and after seeing the film gave it high praise. He passed away two weeks before the release.”

“Rita Moreno was ' hand picked ' by Tony Kushner and Steven Spielberg to be the movie's Executive Producer, as well as featuring her in the film.”

I think the reason Kushner was denied what seemed to be a slam dunk Oscar nomination was his including Rita Moreno’s character Valentina in the final scene. She should never have been there.

Let’s see-she wanders in there and sees Maria is alive when ten minutes earlier she was told that Maria was dead. And the young man she (and Doc) had looked after since he was a kid is lying there dead. So with hardly any emotion she picks up the gun which was used to murder him in cold blood and then gently takes the arm of the murderer. Yes, she’s leading (waddling) him toward the cops in the final shot but it’s still absolutely ludicrous. Any screenwriter with half a brain and a modicum of taste would hate that ending as much as I did and that’s probably why Kushner got less votes than the five who got in there. I assume Spielberg played a large role in how the ending would differ from the original story so I should think he should shoulder some of the blame.

Kushner also probably didn’t get nominated because a lot of the screenplay and script is the same from the 1961 film. It wasn’t much different overall.

Fun Fact- Zendaya was Spielberg’s first choice to play Maria while they were casting.

Let DLers heads explode.

It’s set in 1957

R139, you make a lot of interesting points but do you have to say "tranny"? Why be so derogatory? Are you Matt Damon or something?

You can say trans or transgender. It's not going to kill you. It diminishes your other points when you make a statement like that. Just think about it. I'm sure you don't want to be called fag whether someone is an ally or not. We can be respectful and recognise the humanity in others.

R154 So three people is your example of the "many" people from the original film you claimed worked on this version?

“Rita Moreno claimed that her most difficult scene was when Valentina (Doc - Ned Glass - in the 1961 film) saves Anita from being assaulted in the candy store, due to having originally played the same scene as Anita and responded same dialogue from Valentina/Doc. It was only with greatest difficulty that Moreno was able to stay in character as Valentina and not flub the take out of disassociation.“

R163 I said many? I know you’re slow, being that we have to constantly explain the simplest of things to you, but this is a new level of slow.

Go read what I wrote. It was a QUESTION, by the way.

The Fun Fact I need is: who were the backup Tonys from the audition tapes in case Elgort couldn't do it? I wanted a Tony that was in the same vocal league as Rachel, not someone who was "no better than all right."

R165 So you were answering your own question with R154?

R161 Except that doesn't make sense, does it? Come on now, think it through.

R167 how does it being in 1957 not make sense?

I researched and answered after I found the answer to my question, and posted it in case anyone else was gonna look.

R159, in this case I think it was the opposite of what you think happened. They were most likely taking into account the actual changes which had been made from the previous version and they didn’t like them. Besides the inclusion of Moreno’s character in the final scene making “America” a huge production number ending up with little kids dancing in the streets may have pissed off. some of them, too. That robbed the song of a lot of its original bite. It’s not a feel-good, dancing in the streets kind of song. It’s a bitter/funny character number by the the Sharks and their girlfriends.

R166, Kyle Allen (the very handsome guy who plays Balkan) tested for both Tony and Riff. He’s going to be playing the lead in a Marvel film this year.

R168 The project didn't receive approval until November 1957, with the first relocation of residents only starting in 1958, with demolition following that.

Why weren't cameo roles offered to Carol Lawrence and Chita Rivera from the OBP?

R150, Harvey Evans is not in the film. He was asked but declined. His name appeared in the credits when the film was shown in theatres but has since been removed for the streaming version and B;u-Ray/ DVD releases.

R172 please tell me, what OG Broadway actors were offered roles in the films? They were recast for the films on purpose. Why would they be a part of this?

[quote] You can say trans or transgender. It's not going to kill you. It diminishes your other points when you make a statement like that. Just think about it. I'm sure you don't want to be called fag whether someone is an ally or not. We can be respectful and recognise the humanity in others.

There's nothing wrong with the term "tranny" and it was universally used as a shortcut to transsexual for many, many years until someone on social media decided it was a slur because it was a slow outrage day. I'll keep using it.

I'm gay and I hate the term "queer," yet people like you use it all the time despite the fact that millions of gay people around the world still think of it as a derogatory term (which for many years it was, unlike the word tranny), but apparently our saying so isn't going to stop you (or many others) from doing it. Why can't you show us the same respect you ask?

When the TRANS decide to be respectful of women and gays, then I'll give them the same courtesy.

I was surprised to like it more than the original. It's still an idiotic story, of course, what with the love at first sight, let's run away together, I killed your brother but let's have sex, I'm now okay with you running off with the boy who killed your brother/my lover, etc., all within the space of less than 36 hours of time. The four leads were better than the original overall, but agree that the rape scene and the final scene weren't as effective as the original. The quintet was underwhelming musically which is too bad because it's a highlight of the score.

It is a crazy turn of events. Watching it makes you think Maria doesn't really care for her brother. She has a super quick bit of sadness over it then is all over Tony.

NPR did a program seven years ago on the events that inspired West Side Story. I wouldn't say Kushner got it wrong but the scenario of the Sharks as upwardly mobile neighborhood defenders is a bit off. The violence was about racism, tribalism and machismo, which meant that anyone on your streets who wasn't like you had to pay a price. A rumble was a chance to pound out every ounce of frustration in your life on your opponent.

Do we see less or about the same interaction between Maria and Bernardo in the new version. Haven’t seen the original in a while. Their relationship isn’t really well established in either version from what I recall.

Echoing the praise for Mike Faist. The awards team really should’ve done a better job with this one.

She loved Bernardo but her LUST for Tony was too powerful. A lot of people choose their partner over family, even if the family are close.

r176 Elgort is 8 years too old for the part, and so the "love" story makes even less sense.

Mike Faist lost 20 lbs to play Riff.

What does Elgort’s age have to do with anything? He’s 25 playing an 18 year old. He’s 25 now. He was younger when he filmed.

This weird new obsession with actors ages is strange.

R180 but the dude killed her brother even if her brother started it

Tony was 18 though. Elgort’s age doesn’t matter.

The love at first sight thing was something more widely accepted and dreamt about back in the time of the original. (Not that the remake doesn't take place back then, but watching it with a 2021 sensibility makes it seem silly.) When I was watching this version, I rolled my eyes at it a little bit, but also, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't shove current day sociological advances into a story from the 50s and still expect everything else to co-exist with it seamlessly.

r182 Faist comes off as too feminine for a gang leader, and while he dances great, I don't buy him for a minute as Riff.

R182 makes sense. A kid in his situation wouldnt have a lot of food to eat.

I know people who got married days after meeting someone. That shit still happens.

Mike Faist looks and acts like he crawled out of a time machine from that era. He has an Irish Brooklyn vibe more than Manhattan, though.

[quote] Faist comes off as too feminine for a gang leader, and while he dances great, I don't buy him for a minute as Riff.

During his first scene, that was my initial impression, as well. But then I realized he was more coming off like one of the Bowery Boys or a 1930s Dead End kid (and I don't mean that as derogatory). They all often had a particular way of speaking, both in dialect and pitch. He didn't come off as effeminate to me, just someone who was small, scrappy, the runt of the litter, who needed to seem more menacing than he could pull off in order to survive.

“The songs "One Hand, One Heart" and "A Boy Like That/I Have a Love" were performed live on set by Ansel Elgort and Rachel Zegler on the former, and Ariana DeBose and Zegler on the latter. Sections of "Maria" were also sung live on set by Elgort, as per his request. All other songs were filmed to the more traditional playback technique. "Somewhere" was also sung live on set by Rita Moreno.”

“Mike Faist lost about 20 pounds (9 kg) to play Riff, inspired by real photos of young gang members during the 1950's that he discovered while researching his character.”

He also watched old movies etc. to get an idea of how they spoke and their mannerisms.

He nailed it.

R174, Why not?

Because they aren’t a part of the films legacy. They were recast on purpose.

Chita Rivera was bitter for years because they didn’t cast her as Anita for the film and hated Rita Moreno for a long time.

She wanted to play the part for the film and campaigned and they didn’t even consider her for the movie.

[quote] Chita Rivera was bitter for years because they didn’t cast her as Anita for the film and hated Rita Moreno for a long time.

Can you blame her?

Chita was much too hard looking for a leading role in a deluxe spectacular 70MM film. If they had made it a small black and white film like the creators of the stage musicals wanted almost like a musical that looked like On the Waterfront she would have worked better there. Of course that would have brought its own set of problems in terms of the important use of color and doing justice to the dancing and the score.

Also I don't know why people are going crazy about the orchestrations as wonderful as they are. They are clearly based on the originals of Bernstein, Ramin(who died in 2019! when this film was probably in production) and Kostel. I did get the cd for this film and it is terrific.

Interesting that not one person here has discussed one of its most controversial features that has popped up everywhere else in discussions of this new version. The use of Spanish without subtitles.

R198 that was discussed to death on here when the film was released.

More social engineering to pretend that treating the US as an English speaking country insults Hispanics.

Regardless of how comical and dated the original appears, this version will only be more so in no time at all.

[quote] Interesting that not one person here has discussed one of its most controversial features that has popped up everywhere else in discussions of this new version. The use of Spanish without subtitles.

Granted I hadn't read much about it (or looked into it) but I didn't find the use of Spanish without subtitles a problem. They didn't speak Spanish that much, and I felt like in the few areas where they did, it wasn't dialogue that was necessary to understand every word of to get the gist of what was happening.

Hadn't Laurents done this in the 2010 revival on Broadway already?

R199 everything here has been discussed to death since this new version first opened in theaters. Now that it is being streamed a whole new group of people are seeing it and for the most part are bringing up the same issues.

[quote]Hadn't Laurents done this in the 2010 revival on Broadway already?

Yes, but I believe it was dropped.

Ignore R199. Major asshole. Also starts hundreds of idiotic threads.

How is saying it was discussed to death when the film was released me being an asshole? Wtf

Why are they always dancin' around- don't they have jobs?!

R196, Chita was also disappointed at being passed over for "Bye, Bye Birdie" for Janet Leigh, who then saw her role in the movie reduced to benefit Ann-Margaret.

Chita was the real-life inspiration for Hatchet-Face.

And you, r208, are you a Hedy Lamarr?

HED-ley!

"Faist comes off as too feminine for a gang leader, and while he dances great, I don't buy him for a minute as Riff."

I disagree. At first, it may seem that his Riff doesn't have the same kind of toxic-masculine energy as the other gang members, but as the film progresses you find out that that's because they're all bravado, acting tough because they want to feel as tough as they act, but Riff doesn't have to *act* tough. He has nothing to live for, he's out to kill or die or both, and he's the only one of them who's genuinely dangerous because he is boiling over with rage and has zero sense of self-preservation.

And yeah, Faist had the rabid-weasel energy of an angry little man on the verge of killing everyone and then himself, of someone who lives every moment as if it were his last, and who enters every disagreement knowing he has absolutely nothing to lose because he's going to die young no matter what. He nailed it! Faist

THE DWEEB MADE ME STOP WATCHING IT IN THE FIRST 10 MINUTES.

Look at James Cagney. Short, squat, high voice, weaselly, but you believed he was tough and a killer. Faist brought a similar energy.

Cagney was a damn good dancer, too!

Cagney was good at playing psychopaths.

A look at all the creative and production people involved in the 7 day shoot for Dance at the Gym.

Off topic but related: I read earlier today that Spielberg has signed on to direct a remake of Bullitt, the old Steve McQueen film with all the wild car chases around San Francisco in the green mustang. I wonder why another remake of a classic 60s film. Is he trying to relive his youth?

Spielberg hasn't made a good film since Munich.

r183 Elgort is now 27 but was 25 at filming; he still looks way too old for Tony, who is really supposed to be 18/19. He lacks the impulsiveness that makes the "romance" believable. That's why age matters, in this case. Maria is 18, and so 7 years is a huge difference.

r191 Thank you for helping me to see this in a different way.

Actually teens tended to look much older in the 50s.

WSS, both the original Broadway version and the original film version, has always been done in a highly stylized way, despite what was considered for the time as shockingly realistic subject matter. Elgort looks too old? What about all the cast members of the original film?

That last Broadway revival with 2 or 3 of the songs , a few choral parts and a substantial amount of the dialog translated into Spanish ran for over a year and a half but along the way most of the translated parts were gradually put back into English. Audiences hated not being able to follow what was happening and the cast hated playing to audiences who couldn't understand them. It was a failed experiment. Most of the translations were done by Lin Manuel What's His Name.

Stupid question: what does OG abbreviate?

R223 Original Gang

ya couldnt pay me to watch that pile of crud. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

r222 who cares about that>

I watched the new one yesterday, and then watched the original. If I’d ever seen it all the way through, I don’t remember it. I *hated* Rita getting “Somewhere”…I thought Ansel was pretty good—definitely not hard to be better than Richard Beymer! The storyline is pretty ridiculous, but the songs and music are wonderful.

[quote] The storyline is pretty ridiculous.

We need to blame this guy for that.

Star crossed lovers have been a successful theatrical device for hundreds of years.

"Star-crossed lovers" is actually a phrase from the text of Romeo and Juliet, isn't it? A reference to astrology.

[quote]Elgort looks too old? What about all the cast members of the original film?

Oh look, we found Ben Platt's account. Elgort wasn't in the original film. If he was surrounded by other cast members who looked a similar age to him, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Ben Platt as Tony still makes me giggle. But he really tried!

R231 but he was. Mike Faist was 27 when they filmed. Most of the Jets and Sharks were in their 20s/30s.

The only one actually a teen was Rachel Zegler. And I don’t think Ansel looked much older than her at all.

R233 That's it, just skip over the part where I said "looked".

weird casting for sure.....egon i adore but not in this. wonder how he of all folks snagged the role?

Why aren’t we taking more about how fine David Alvarez is?

[quote]and his songs have been reorchestrated from tenor to baritone, which ruins their magical qualities.

No, they haven’t, one song is down a half-step, the rest is the same as Bernstein wrote it, I know, I’ve sung the role of tony

R216, that is fun, i love the scene. I’m not crazy about the choreography but i still love the scene

r237 No...they have all been lowered.

r236 I wonder as well...he ought to have been the breakout yet is strangely low key in the film in a role than won Chakiris an Oscar.

he sounds very young and sweet in interviews

and he was wonderful as Billy Elliott

R240 just because it won Chakiris an Oscar doesn’t mean it will win someone else an Oscar. Supporting Actor category is crowded.

r240 Of course not, but my point was that Alvarez was never even in the awards conversation for an Oscar-caliber role.

Because he was overshadowed by Mike Faist, who plays Riff in a way we’ve not seen before.

I didn't like Faist but I finally get (through Data Lounge!) what he was doing, and I guess it makes sense.

I agree, R246. I must say the first time I saw it I didn’t care for his performance at all, it seemed to be too mannered. However after watching it a few more times I get what he’s doing and I like it.

r247 I've been converted by Data Lounge!

Elgort was fine. He was hit by critics because of his metoo issues. He was no worse than anyone else. He was good in a nearly impossible role to cast. Zegler, Faist, and Alvarez were overpraised. Zegler was touching with Elgort in the balcony scene, but she was overparted dramatically, and the final scene flopped hard. The only one really coming through as a star was Debose (America and Boy Like That were the best things in the movie) and she’ll win the Oscar, although some of her dancing was effortful and the singing was patchy at times. She was really failed by Spielberg and Peck in the rape scene which was badly written, choreographed, and shot. That scene is genuinely awful and scary onstage and it just failed in this film.

Peck’s choreography was… meh. The school mambo was a chaotic, undistinguished mess. America was better but mostly because of Debose and her dress. All the stuff with the guys was just dumb, but I always have a problem with the “gang” scenes which are always borderline comic and never threatening in the slightest. They should have left Robbins alone. If you’re not going to touch the music, the choreography should be equally sacred.

Kushner’s attempt at a pass was a huge waste of time. All the new material felt tacked on and exhausting. Spanish dialogue? Sure. Ok. Trying to amp up Maria’s feminism was ridiculous and is completely undermined by everything Maria actually does. Her sole motivation is teenage love and she’ll do anything for Tony even after he murders her brother. Removing the weird patois of the original book and trying to date it today was just dumb. Having Valentina call the boys “rapists?” Ridiculous. Btw, an underpowered performance by Moreno. She seemed out of place and hampered by her age.

Spielberg, despite a couple of interesting moments, didn’t add much. Also, the locations looked NOTHING like Hell’s Kitchen. The jumping around they did from Paterson, NJ, to Washington Heights, etc., was weird and disconcerting as a NYC resident. The grand old buildings and hills of Washington Heights (although this is currently where most of the city’s Puerto Rican community lives) looked nothing like the geographic flatness and poor tenement buildings of HK, most of which you can still see today.

Overall, I was just like this is okay, but… why? It’s a problematic tired show that should really be relegated to concerts where Bernstein’s objectively best and most popular score is allowed to shine. It really has nothing to say that’s relevant.

r249 Although I disagree about Elgort, your response otherwise is intelligent and well written with excellent examples. It's refreshing to see such acute thinking on Data Lounge. Thank you.

I am very sorry Faist wasn’t nominated for a Best Supporting Oscar.

r251 Certainly better than Troy Kotsur...

He’s definitely interesting R251, I would imagine he’ll get some heat from this, Oscar nom or no.

Troy Kotsur was a ridiculous nomination.

R254 why? I havent seen CODA but from clips I've seen it looks like a great performance.

Well, then watch the movie, because it isn't. The whole thing is overrated garbage.

R175, I never said queer. No surprise, your head is full of garbage.

Blocked.

Comments like R77 drive me crazy. They were able to find a handsome marketable lead with a great voice. So what if they changed the keys slightly to accommodate him? What do you want? Some musical theater actor with a face for the mezzanine who looks like an absolute hound? A totally mannered and inauthentic vocal performance?

I actually prefer the movie soundtracks over OBCs because there’s emotion and texture that lacks from someone doing this as their day job and being too careful about dispelling naysayers to, I don’t know, feel the emotion beyond the technique.

Learn how to read, asshole at R257.

Oh yes, Ansel proved to be oh-so-marketable. Even without the MeToo stuff, he's flopped as a leading man again.

Also, your made up scenario that it's either lower the keys for Ansel or find someone who can't act is just ridiculous.

I don't think the failure of this film can be laid at the feet of Ansel Elgort, especially since they all but pretended he wasn't even in the movie in their marketing campaign. And he was fine in the film.

Reading reviews or comments on here I was thinking Ansel Elgort would be horrible but I found him to be pretty good.

R260, no one knew about his creepy texting shit when they shot the movie, so that’s irrelevant.

I’m very curious who would you suggest for the lead. Who would you choose to play the romantic lead in a hundred million dollar musical?

R263 No, but they knew he flopped as a lead in The Goldfinch. Hence me saying "even without the MeToo stuff" - but you just decided to ignore that, eh?

And given casting Elgort did absolutely nothing for them, Spielberg should've done what he said he was going to do originally and cast an unknown, someone who could actually sing and act the part. Which Elgort clearly couldn't.

R264, you seem hellbent on trashing Elgort's performance when no one really agrees with you. You clearly have an agenda that has nothing to do with WSS.

I saw Anita DuBois as the Leading Player in Pippin. It was actually a disappointment at the time. I was looking forward to seeing Patina Miller, who was very early into her run and called out sick for a Thursday performance. Guess I lucked out with the Oscar nominee.

The fact that Patina Miller has completely vanished in the years since makes me think something was wrong or she had a shit work ethic. It’s nice to see an underdog story play out like this.

Thought it was rather odd that Tony mentioned it was an Egyptian kid he almost killed. Was there an Egyptian gang in NYC back in those days?

So Anita and Bernardo were living in sin? With his sister there? Sure.

Chino was a lot hotter than Tony, who has a weird baby-man kind of face. And not an ounce of sexual charisma. Too bad about his completely underwhelming version of "Maria," too.

I usually like Rita Moreno. But it was unfortunate that "Somewhere," one of the greatest songs in musical theater history, was wasted on her character. There was no need to shoehorn her into the movie.

The movie starts and then dies with the long, boring speech from Officer Cory Stoltz. What a way to derail your momentum. He should have played Doc.

R263, I ignored nothing. The Goldfinch was a small scale movie that has zero chance at mainstream success without the benefit of Oscar nominations. The fact that you’re using that as a marker of his bankability is exposing the major holes in your argument.

I’m not even an Ansel Elgort fan but the way you’re trying to discredit any of his contribution to the effectiveness of a movie that wasn’t even a success is bizarre.

[quote] The fact that Patina Miller has completely vanished in the years since makes me think something was wrong or she had a shit work ethic. It’s nice to see an underdog story play out like this.

She hasn't disappeared. She moved to television and had a long run on Madame Secretary.

Yeah, anytime Stoll/Schrank appeared on screen I fast forwarded. Those scenes were genuinely terrible and stopped the movie dead, though I did love the line “the last of the can’t make it Caucasians.”

He was barely in the movie.

R269, my apologies. The CBS procedural world is like a Twilight Zone cornfield where people disappear for years and you think they’re out of the business but it turns out they’re making half a million dollars twenty five weeks out of the year.

Still, congratulations on reaching the Olympic heights of working with Tea Leoni for five years and being second on the call sheet for the third spin-off of a Starz series that 80% of the general public has never heard of.

Madame Secretary isn't a procedural, and plenty of actors would be thrilled to have a good role on a long running television show.

You want to keep proving what a moron you are or have you had enough?

I dunno, R273. It’s more fun to be a moron desperately trying to defend a show that was cancelled four years ago due to lack of interest and pretend that it was the devoted Patina Miller club that let it run as long as it did.

[quote]The only true improvement is that the dance scenes with no dialogue or songs is shortened,

What do you mean by that, and can you give an example or two?

[quote]It seems appropriate that it's streaming on Disney as it feels like an animated Disney version of WSS

R14, I'm sure you think that's a clever and amusing comment, but it's neither.

[quote] I dunno, [R273]. It’s more fun to be a moron desperately trying to defend a show that was cancelled four years ago due to lack of interest and pretend that it was the devoted Patina Miller club that let it run as long as it did.

Sweetheart, you tried and failed. Several times. Now why don't you run along and go build a shrine to Anita DuBois, whoever the fuck that is.

I’m enjoying it, but watching it in fifteen minute spurts

I have no interest in a shrine, R277. I’m just saying that there might be a correlation between the person who showed up for a super fucking easy 2 1/2 hour a day job earning an Oscar nomination and the career trajectory of another person who couldn’t handle that doing ensemble work on a trashy cable show that has less than 250k viewers.

Wow, moron was an understatement.

[quote]the CGI was very ... CGI.

What scenes are you referring to? I don't think there's much CGI in the movie at all.

[quote] Anita seemed like a hypocrite singing about Tony when we just watched Bernardo kill Riff. It was all staged a bit too deliberately.

I don't know what you mean by that, since it's the same in the original.

The whole blown out/half demolished buildings set was CGI.

Dancing GANGS? Either version...that's a hard NO.

r283 you mean NYC isn't in demolition mode right now?

[quote] Either version...that's a hard NO.

it's a hard YES in my book, all the rest can go fuck themselves

The Egyptian Kings were a gang involved in the Michael Farmer slaying, the springboard for West Side Story.

How fucking dumb was carrying the body out in the final scenes?

[quote]I'm halfway through the 2021 movie and have seen the original many times. The 1961 film begins with deserted streets, which worked as an abstract stage the Jets could dance through....I was also puzzled by Rita Moreno's character. If she married a gringo and lived happily ever after, why is it the end of the world for Maria and Tony? And Anybodys, How much grief would a woman have gotten back then if she claimed to be a man? Wouldn't she be a target for rape as a way of showing her her place? Finally, Tony. He was in prison but he's a clean-faced choirboy who isn't trying to climb on top of this woman.

What a weird post, R46. For someone who claims to have seen the original film many times, you got several things wrong. First of all, although it's true that there are far fewer people on the streets in the original movie as compared to the new one, it's NOT true that the '61 film begins with "deserted streets." (Have another look and you'll see how wrong you are about that.) Your comment about Rita Moreno's character and how it relates to Tony and Maria is really dense, and it makes me think you didn't understand the new screenplay AT ALL. As for Anybodys, although the actor who plays the role in the new film identifies as trans, the way the character is now presented is not all that different from the '61 film. And finally, your comment about Tony is so stupid that it doesn't deserve any response at all.

[quote]The new book is pretentious junk, including Anybodys as a trans character.

I wish people would STOP saying this. Of course, the character in the new movie never says she's "trans." At one point, I think she does say, or shout, "I'm not a girl." But that's exactly what someone like that character might have said in those days without identifying as "trans," which would have never entered their mind.

And its not a new "book," bucko, it's a screenplay.

I do believe in theater than “book” is slang for libretto (which means little book anyway )

[quote] [R283] you mean NYC isn't in demolition mode right now?

I was answering someone's question, fuckface.

If you look at the pictures above, Riff is very representative of what the white gangs looked like. The Sharks are not representative. Also, their gangs included Blacks, according to the accounts. The white gangs were often ethnically homogenous--Irish or Italian or some variation that included Jews..

Here are the guys arrested for the murder of Farmer. Two in the shot are police. they are older and fancier dressers so I guess the movie got that right.

[quote]For the OG production of WSS, none of the white people were olive or tan. They were all fair skinned Irish or WASPy looking. No Italian looking types.

R64, first of all, what does "OG production" mean? Does that mean "original production?" And are you referring to the original stage production or the '61 movie. Anyway, Tony Mordente was in both the original Broadway cast and the movie, and I would describe him as very Italian-looking. And I would say Bert Michaels, another one of the Jets in the original movie, also looks Italian.

Here's a short Instagram video that Ansel and Rachel made in December, right before the release of the movie. Notice how he's better looking here than he is in the movie, mostly because of his hair here and the fact that he doesn't get to smile much in the movie.

[quote]Every single Jet is a shlub. They were cast to look like greasy losers. Every single Shark is well-dressed, hard working and upwardly mobile. I think there's some suggestion the Sharks have a close knit family structure while the Jets don't. Sterotype much?

It made perfect sense to me. The Jets are gang members because they are low-life delinquents, most likely from "broken homes" and with no interest in working for a living. The Sharks are gang members only to defend themselves against the Jets. And this is not a "stereotype," because i think we can assume there are a lot of young white guys living in the neighborhood who are NOT gang members because they do have decent lives and work for a living.

Do you get it now that I've explained it?

[quote]I was so disappointed when they moved AMERICA to the streets. I loved all of the Jets and their dates on the roof in their best clothes all presumably hot and keyed up right after the dance.....it just makes more sense to me.

Umm, those are the Sharks and their women.

[quote] When Rita Moreno's Anita spit at the boys as she's leaving Doc's store - she was vicious and looks at them with hate in her eyes and body language: "I got a message for your American buddy. Tell him Chino found out about him and Maria and shot her. She's DEAD!" In the new one - Anita is almost bland in her line readings.....I missed the FIRE and purpose of the visit.

Ariana De Bose is not remotely "bland" in her line readings. But I do agree with many people that the near-rape scene is not quite as powerful in the new movie as in the first one, because of the staging and direction.

I thought the Chino in the new version and the way the whole final scenes were executed was better than in the original. I thought Richard Beymer was inauthentic in his attempts to project grief, anger, and despair. He came across as fake to me. And the original Chino was a fucking cipher. I never felt like he had any interest in Maria, or anything else. He was hugely forgettable. This newer version of Chino was much more fully realized and believable. In fact, while I really liked the new Anita, I missed Rita's dancing. And while no one will ever mistake George Chakiris for a boxer, I liked his Bernardo better. But overall I loved this version. And I was a HUGE fan of the original. Still am. But IMO it was simply a film version of a stage play. Whereas this was a movie with fully realized characters, and context, and a story. In this version I even appreciated the lyrics more. And I agree the music is sublime.

[quote]The original Chino was a fucking cipher. I never felt like he had any interest in Maria, or anything else. He was hugely forgettable.

That definitely was not the fault of the actor, Jose De Vega. It's just that Chino in the original show and the '61 movie is a tiny part, and he's really there just as a plot device. In the one good scene Chino has in the '61 movie, when he has to tell Maria what happened at the rumble, I think De Vega is excellent and heartbreaking.

I'm really surprised you would blame an actor for the way a script is written

Chino is not remotely attractive in the new WSS.

[quote]It looks like the CGI cityscape for the opening number was leftover from Saving Private Ryan. A nod to the fact the 61 film’s opening was shot in the condemned San Juan Hill neighborhood before it was torn down to build Lincoln Center is a nice inside-baseball touch, but urban renewal doesn’t look like war-torn Dresden with people still living in and around half destroyed buildings. The entire neighborhood was vacated before a much more orderly demolition process began. Also, San Juan Hill was primarily an African American neighborhood. WSS takes place to the south, in Hells Kitchen where poor Irish & Italians lived before the Puerto Ricans moved in.

Maybe some of the backgrounds of the opening scenes were CGI, but for the most part, those were actual sets. As to your comment about people still living in and around half destroyed buildings, you have a point, but on the other hand, any urban renewal site has its periphery, and of course there are people who continue to live just beyond it.

The main reason I love the original West Side Story is because of Natalie Wood’s and Rita Moreno’s performances. Rachel Zegler has a beautiful singing voice, but I felt almost nothing from her in the acting department. Say what you want about Natalie and how she was miscast, but she truly delivered in the final scene where Tony is shot. Rita Moreno was also more memorable and powerful as Anita than Ariana DeBose. Ariana is only winning the Oscar because it’s a great role.

[quote]Elgort's voice was lowered to baritone from tenor, destroying the soaring nature of his songs.

What the f*#ck do you mean by that?

The final scene by her could have been done better but I think Zegler did good with other emotional beats like the scene between Maria and Anita after she found Tony in her room. She was more than just a great singing voice. Really good for her first professional acting role.

R265 LOL sure I'm the only one critical of Elgort's performance. Not like almost every review picked him out as the weak link or anything. Hell, you yourself said he had no charisma, was unbelievable as a gang leader and needed autotuning - so what's your agenda?

R289 Kushner has said she's trans

Tweet today by James Wolcott, journalist for Vanity Fair and the New Yorker:

Set amid the rubble of a ravaged, postwar Manhattan that resembles Dresden, WEST SIDE STORY records a tragic episode of star-crossed lovers as gentrification waits in the wings to tidy up the nabe.

[quote]Yes, for some reason, in the new film the Shark guys seem to have more on the ball than the loser Jet kids. Which is NOT a compliment to the Puerte Rican community. Guys who are on their way up and possibly out are still throwing their lives away in street gangs?

For some reason? ARRRGH! Crystal clearly, the point of the new movie is that the Sharks became gang members only to defend themselves against the Jets. I think Bernardo even says as much in one of his scenes with Anita.

As for your comment about the Jets being losers and the Sharks having more on the ball, this point is actually made in the original show and movie as well, though not as explicitly. In the original, some of the Jets make fun of Tony for taking a job, and when we hear the Sharks talking among themselves, we get the impression that they all have jobs, even if they could only find menial employment because of discrimination.

R297, Bernardo in the stage versions and the 1961 version was never a boxer. This was created for this version, it’s one of Kushner’s better ideas for his adaptation.

I look forward to John Travolta, in his Oscar night introduction of a montage of WSS, refer to cast members Hansel Elmore, Rochelle Zingerman and Anita DuBois. And he’ll pronounce “DuBois” as “Doo-BWAH,” as in Blanche.

[quote]I didn’t love Tony, but I didn’t hate him, either. His voice was mostly appropriate for the character, and he sang pretty well. I wish he had a fuller, more operatic top, but I kept telling myself his voice was probably more suitable to the character. I couldn’t tell what he was supposed to be. A pollack who beat someone to death and then reformed in prison? I didn’t get any of that vibe from his acting except when he was beating Bernardo to a pulp. And it seemed like he kept going I. And out of some kind of accent.

You're close. He's supposed to be a nice kid who had gotten involved with a gang and who ALMOST beat a member of another gang to death, then was sent to prison for a year and realized the error of his ways, so now he has taken a job and is trying to make a better life for himself. Do you find that so unbelievable?

Also, to my ears, Elgort's New York accent was spot on and convincing throughout the movie

His New York accent is even present in his singing which I thought worked extremely well.

[quote]Kushner also probably didn’t get nominated because a lot of the screenplay and script is the same from the 1961 film. It wasn’t much different overall.

Not true. While many (but not all) of the set-ups for the scenes are the same, ALMOST ALL of the lines are new. I caught maybe a total of five lines or phrases at most that were taken from the original -- like "Te adoro, Anton," "Te adoro, Maria."

R267 - I may be wrong because I only saw the movie once and am not as familiar with the book like many people on here - but I understood “Egyptian” to be the name of the kid’s gang, not his ethnicity.

[quote]Also I don't know why people are going crazy about the orchestrations as wonderful as they are. They are clearly based on the originals of Bernstein, Ramin(who died in 2019! when this film was probably in production) and Kostel. I did get the cd for this film and it is terrific.

They are not "based on" the originals. For the most part, they ARE the originals reproduced almost exactly, with some minor changes in some cases, including key changes. An exception would be "Somewhere," which has been presented very differently in the original show, the '61 movie, and the new movie.

P.S. it's Kostal.

For someone who asked above, this is a performance clip of one of the other guys who was considered for the role of Tony in the new movie. Here he is singing "Maria" in the original key, which is much higher than the key in the '61 movie or the new one.

I'd much rather have seen Nikita Burshteyn than Ansel, r314. Thanks.

[quote]They were able to find a handsome marketable lead with a great voice. So what if they changed the keys slightly to accommodate him? What do you want? Some musical theater actor with a face for the mezzanine who looks like an absolute hound? A totally mannered and inauthentic vocal performance?

Also, when Broadway musicals are adapted as movie musicals, it's very common to lower the keys of the songs considerably, because now the performers don't have to "project" their sound in a large theater, and singing songs in high keys tends to look odd on screen due to the greater intimacy of the film medium. As I noted above, the keys for almost all of Tony and Maria's songs were lowered A LOT from the original Broadway score of WSS for the '61 movie, and I'm pretty sure those same lowered keys (or similar) were the ones used for the Spielberg movie.

R270

[quote] I did love the line “the last of the can’t make it Caucasians.”

I don't understand this.

R317, in Kushner's script, Lt. Schrank has a line to the Jets, before the "Jet Song," where he refers to them as "the last of the can't-make-it Caucasians."

white losers/?

I don’t get what you don’t get R317. It’s an insult from a white cop to a bunch of white gang kids, and it got a good laugh.

r302 Do you know the difference between baritones and tenors? Tony's songs should have a sweet, almost angelic sound (especially "Maria""} and that is what's missing in Elgort's baritone.

[quote] Tweet today by James Wolcott, journalist for Vanity Fair and the New Yorker…star-crossed lovers as gentrification waits in the wings to tidy up the nabe.

A 69-year old professional uses words like "nabe".

R296 I corrected my Sharks/Jets error in the next post, but I guess you were too busy trying to post how wrong I was to read ONE MORE POST.

And yea - Anita's lousy acting didn't mess up the scene - the blocking and directing did. Okay.

R320 ignore him. He needs EVERYTHING explained.

Ansel Elgort’s NY accent is exaggerated here but he has a real one, albeit lighter. That’s why it even comes out in his singing.

He’s born and raised in Manhattan. He’s a legit NYer.

Ben Platt wanted the part of Tony so badly that he even released his homemade audition videos on youtube. What a tragedy he wasn't seriously considered. This beautiful, young, fresh-faced savior of Broadway could have turned this latest film around with his enormous talent. What a huge lost opportunity.

R315 he’s fine and he’s talented but his look isn’t the look you go for when casting the lead in a big budget film like this

[quote}Do you know the difference between baritones and tenors?

Yes, I do. Do you? To repeat: Ansel Elgort sings Tony's songs in the same keys, and with the same basically baritonal quality, as Jim Bryant, who dubbed for Richard Beymer in the original movie. If you are comparing Ansel's singing to Larry Kert's on the original cast album of WSS, then yes, the songs are less soaring and less "angelic" as sung by Ansel.

Larry Kert was a tenor? Really?

Did Carreras use Kert's keys he made that lackluster concert recording with Bernstein?

R322, it’s painfully obvious Wolcott understands the many functions of sarcasm and you do not.

R327, that may be why he didn't get the part, although of course his look could have been modified at least a bit. And for what it's worth, LOL, some people really don't like Ansel's "look." (I disagree with them.)

I think the main reason Ansel got it was that he does/did have some name value as a movie star, and none of the other leads in the movie do. Just as the producers of the '61 movie felt they needed one movie star (Natalie Wood), it was probably the same situation here.

[quote]Larry Kert was a tenor? Really?

You think he wasn't a tenor? Whether or not he was a natural tenor, he was certainly, definitely, absolutely singing in tenor keys in "West Side Story." I hope you don't dispute that, because if you do, you're just making yourself look ignorant.

I'd describe Kert as a lyric baritone managing to cope with tenor keys.

I didn't hate this and Ansel was fine. But his mouth is always partly open and he always has a sulky, sullen, entitled expression. Zegler has a beautiful voice.

R314 That guy, Nikita Burshteyn, sings Maria like those guys doing jerk-off videos. He was vulnerable and passionate. He gave us his all.

Did Rachel get to sample the big Ansel dong?

Regarding the "can't make it Caucasians": The story is set in an era where ALL the good jobs were reserved for white men. Not just the executive suites, but any job that paid good money or carried any prestige was unofficially considered the property of white men. For a white man to become an unemployable loser in the 1950s, he really had to dedicate himself to worthlessness.

The Puerte Ricans had to make do with whatever jobs the white men couldn't be arsed to take, which is why the lyrics of "America" are so good. Yes, discrimination was everywhere and a PR in 1950s NY would still face a life of crap jobs and urban poverty... which was still richer than being poor in Puerto Rico. Both side of the song's arguments are right.

Kert is helped by the orchestrations which seem deliberately crafted not to give him any long exposed high notes.

Regarding Tony's "soaring top", and doesn't that sound dirty...

In a stage performance, hearing a singer power up to the top of their range can be thrilling, but that sort of power singing doesn't work in movies. Singers need to power back for a film, forget about reaching the back row and sing as if they were in an intimate setting, because the audience is seeing their face close up and may be sitting in their own living rooms. As I said above, people who sing in movies need to sound like human beings and not opera singers, and I thought that the singing in this movie was just what it needed to be. Not too perfect, as characters this rough shouldn't sing perfectly, but beautiful enough to do justice to the music.

[quote] Singers need to power back for a film

I half-remember when Joan Sutherland appeared on the Dinah Shore TV show.

Dinah discreetly sang her song using her lips whereas Joan was grimacing with thunder-struck eyebrows and opening her mouth very wide as though she were at the dentist.

Dinah Shore chided her for doing so.

Ansel was indeed born and raised in NYC, r325, but in a very wealthy upper middle class home. I doubt he has any accent at all apart from the standard mid-Atlantic one.

Here's that soaring top note that's missing from the film sung by Jeremy Jordan. This appears to have been filmed on a smart phone.

The soaring note sequence starts at timemark 1:48.

I'm guessing that the reason it's not in the film is NOT because Spielberg couldn't figure out how to film it without startling the audience. It's most likely because Ansel couldn't do it.

Ansel is a compromise between singing ability and acting and relative youth. It's a bit sad because this film version was an opportunity to cast a Tony that matched Zegler's singing ability, but all the qualified Tonys from Broadway have aged out, I guess.

Well, Sondheim always said that he generally preferred actors who can sing as opposed to singers who can act.

Sondheim was part of why Ansel got cast. He was there for some of the audition process. He was also present for all recording sessions.

[quote] Sondheim was part of why Ansel got cast.

Now we know who to blame!

r334..great explanation

[quote]But his mouth is always partly open and he always has a sulky, sullen, entitled expression.

Of course, neither part of that ridiculous statement is true. Wild exaggeration and generalization are tools of the ignorant.

[quote]Did Carreras use Kert's keys he made that lackluster concert recording with Bernstein?

Yes, he did. Again, Tony in WSS is unquestionably a tenor role -- one of relatively few true tenor roles in musical theater -- even if Kert was singing a bit beyond his most comfortable range.

[quote}Kert is helped by the orchestrations which seem deliberately crafted not to give him any long exposed high notes.

I don't know what you mean by that. He has several long, exposed high notes, and if you mean that a lot of them have heavy orchestration under them, that's also true of lots of the high notes in opera.

But Kert never tried to sing opera.

I checked MTI and it says Tony needs a high B flat and some light baritones can manage that in moderation. But yes, it's obviously a tenor role. There aren't any black and white cut off points between vocal ranges and of course timbre is important too.

[quote]There aren't any black and white cut off points between vocal ranges and of course timbre is important too.

Yes, and also, designations like "tenor" and "baritone" really come from opera and classical music, and they usually don't apply neatly to musical theater roles. As for Larry Kert's timbre in WSS, to me it's much more tenor than baritone

Some people use lyric or light baritone out of kindness to describe a tenor who doesn't have all the needed high notes.

But as was said above, it's not black and white. It all depends on the part, theh range, the particular voice, the timbre, the individual artistry and in the real world, who is actually available.

R244 and they were both overshadowed by Jamie Dornan in Belfast.

Jamie Dornan didn’t get in at the Oscar’s either.

Fun fact- Timmy and Ansel are both NYC natives and went to the same Private school together.

The school that Ansel and Timothee attended together is the Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts, which is not a private school.

R332, when that recording came out, one of bernstein’s last, it was roundly lambasted as terrible.

It’s also not a public school where just anyone can get in.

It’s a public school, you just aren’t allowed in, loser

[quote]When that recording came out, one of bernstein’s last, it was roundly lambasted as terrible.

And deservedly so. Have you heard it??? Yeesh!

It’s not private. It’s public but it’s also a specialized school that requires special admissions.

There are only 9 specialized schools in NY.

[quote]It’s also not a public school where just anyone can get in.

[quote]It’s a public school, you just aren’t allowed in, loser.

Recently everyone has gotten very woke there and there was going to be less of an emphasis on auditions and more on racial and other diversity. I lost interest in the drama and have no idea what's going on now.

2 or 3 years ago they did The Sound of Music and omitted almost all the references to Nazism because it wasn't woke or something.

Madonna’s daughter Lourdes also went to LaGuardia. I was impressed she sent her to a public h.s.

[quote]2 or 3 years ago they did The Sound of Music and omitted almost all the references to Nazism because it wasn't woke or something.

No, I think it was because they didn't want to "trigger" anyone in the cast or in the audience.

R362 I quiver for the coming generation.

R363 ok, I’m convinced you’re slow now. It’s not a regular public school where whatever kids live within the district go there. Are you really that fucking stupid? You’re such an uneducated parasite. It makes me sad. Not angry. Sad for you.

LaGuardia is a SPECIALIZED school. One of Nine in NY. It is not open for everyone to come like you claim. You have to have a portfolio, audition tapes as well as go through an audition process to get in. The other eight specialized schools require a state test to get in also, with LaGuardia being the only one that doesn’t require a test to get in. It’s strictly talent based.

It’s not like the kids going to the FDR in Brooklyn. Jesus.

[quote]It’s strictly talent based.

Well it used to be but I'm not sure anymore. Like I said above, I got so disgusted I lost interest in following what's going on now so I don't know anymore.

Let's just make sure we don't trigger anyone over unimportant things like actual talent.

R355 but Dornan was in virtually every conversation regarding likely nominees for Supporting Actor unlike Alvarez and Faist.

Really wanted to like it but I have to agree with Brody. I don't know why Spielberg made this. He didn't fix the flaws in the original and added elements that were unnecessary and distracting.

The filmmakers’ attempt to pin down a cause for the Jets-Sharks rivalry reflects their more general shift, in the new film, toward facile psychologizing. In the original, directed by Robert Wise, the Jets are more than just defenders of white interests; they are full-service bullies who harass white kids, too. For all of its faults, the original film doesn’t rationalize aggression—or racism—away or reduce its characters to single motives.

The original Tony, for instance, wants to avoid a fight because he has a job and wants a better future than the one that seems to await his layabout friends in the Jets. There’s no single awakening that led him to want out of gang life. His decisions seem to follow the complex yet inchoate impulses of his character. By contrast, the Tony of Spielberg’s film is a convict who has spent a year in Sing Sing because of a fight in which he nearly killed another young man. He avoids the Jets because he doesn’t want to jeopardize his parole. When Riff tries to persuade him to take part in the “rumble” with the Sharks anyway, Tony explains that he’d spent his time in prison examining himself ruefully and resolving to live differently. Whatever Spielberg and Kushner may have had in mind, what they deliver with this simplistic backstory is an endorsement of incarceration: the movie makes clear that Tony came out of prison a better person than he went in.

[quote] There’s no single awakening that led him to want out of gang life.

That happened before the the play starts. This play is obliged to follow the skeleton of the plot given by Shakespeare.

[quote] He didn't fix the flaws in the original

Well, one flaw he fixed was when Rachel stood on the fire escape and started singing in her own, beautiful, incredible voice. Her face and voice in every scene was a fix for most of the material, and if she could do a relay with the other movie, Natalie would only take over at the start of the dialogue that goes, "Chino, why do you lie to me?" I loved Spielberg's version, but it did make me appreciate even more some parts of the original that were very beautiful.

Natalie’s face screamed of acting when she was lip-synching. I actually find it annoying during some moments, how she’s always polished and you can see her acting. She was phenomenal in the finale and some other moments but when it came to the singing parts, her expressions were always so polished.

“A Boy Like That” (one of my favorite songs from WSS) is the perfect example. When Maria turns around and sings “Oh no Anita, no”, she’s doing too much. You can tell she’s not really the one singing. Rita was phenomenal.

I do think the new one does this scene/song better. Ariana sang the song with more anger and helplessness than Rita did.

This is pretty well known but Natalie was told she would be doing her own singing and prerecorded all her own tracks and sang back to them during filming. She was both furious and hurt when she saw the finished film and realized they had called in Marni Nixon after she, Natalie, had left the production to dub her singing.

Natalie had a somewhat decent singing voice and could certainly carry a tune -- you can hear her own voice in Gypsy --but unfortunately WSS requires so much more than that.

Excellent analysis R369.

Yes R374 is correct. Whatever criticisms R371 / 372 have of her facial expressions, she wasn’t lip-synching to someone else’s voice but actually singing along with her own pre-recorded track, like every other performer in the film, or almost any filmed musical.

They don’t record sound on set when actually shooting a scene like this - they just sync & edit the film later to the same pre-recorded track all the actors are performing to. Nixon’s voice was dubbed in later, near the end of post production before the final mix. Even if they had kept Wood’s voice her performance would look exactly the same.

Anita DuBois just said on a Q&A YT video that she said to Spielberg Anita would have to be Afro-Latina if he cast her. Where in this fucking version is it explained she’s Afro-Latina? Only in her fucking head. Bitch, shut up.

Well, she IS afro-latina (more afro than latina). Every time she came onscreen, I kept thinking- Anita is black? Kinda doesn't work.

She looks Dominican at times but not latina at all. And before you come for me, most Afro-Latinas have a look where you know they’re Latina.

A “darker” Puerto Rican and “lighter” Latina’s culture is pretty much the same. Treatment is a whole other topic.

The Caribbean is full of people with African ancestry, why shouldn't people associated with the Sharks be one of them.

Seriously, this is a non-issue.

Even a lot of the “white” Puerto Ricans have a good amount of African ancestry. Women more than men.

How would DL feel if a young Luke Evans played Tony?

[quote]Seriously, this is a non-issue.

it totally is, but on the DL, everyone is a cuntish expert about nonsense of all stripes

Jesus, I should have known some would fail to grasp my point. Which was Anita DuBois literally saying to Spielberg “If you select me then you have to acknowledge that she (Anita) is Afro-Latina.” And there is never a reference to Anita actually being an Afro-Latina in the actual film. So Miss Anita DuBois is just using her ethnicity as a story topic with nothing to back it up. There isn’t even a photograph on set with her black father/latina mother or vice versa.

Who cares?

It was acknowledged when she’s called Bernardo’s “black pig”.

R377, actors often invent back stories for their characters that flesh out the narrative. DeBose brings qualities to Anita that are neither obvious nor wrongheaded. The script does not exclude Anita being Afro Latina, so if that gives DeBose inspiration she can act, what is the problem?

Just watched it this past weekend. I really wanted to like it, but I couldn’t. It’s well-cast but Spielberg can’t direct a movie for shit. And Kushner’s book was atrocious.

R385, how many fucking times are you going to get her name wrong? It's Ariana, not Anita, DeBose. Anita is the name of the CHARACTER she's playing. Are you purposely typing it wrong out of disrespect, or are you just stupid and careless?

[quote]Spielberg can’t direct a movie for shit.

Only on the DataLounge.

[quote]And Kushner’s book was atrocious.

It's a screenplay, not a "book," you dimwit. The script of a stage musical is called a "book," but the script of a film is NEVER called a "book."

R390, so what?

[quote] Spielberg can’t direct a movie for shit.

Excremental language is now all too common on Datalounge. It's so unnecessary.

Who's lap did Ansel Elgort sit on to get his part?

Who the hell is Anita DuBois anyway?

The first result in Google for Anita DuBois

[quote] Are you purposely typing it wrong out of disrespect, or are you just stupid and careless?

Clearly both. At r385, he provides a link to some article where her name is very clearly displayed and - thinking that he’s being funny (and that’s where the stupid comes) - he still calls her Anita DuBois.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

I loved it, I frankly don't care if it was a flop, or if the queens on this forum didn't like it, I loved it and would watch it again

Yeah, the Anita DuBois thing is intentionally disrespectful and obnoxious. It’s misogynist and racist. Knock it off.

She’s one of the best things about the movie and is going to get an an Oscar for her performance, you ancient racist old queens notwithstanding.

I get it being disrespectful and obnoxious, but how is it racist or misogynist?

I loved the movie too.

Yeah, R398, how is is racist or misogynist? You’re a moron.

The only moron here is you R401. Blocked.

I’m happy to block idiots like R398 who shriek “RACIST! MISOGYNIST!” at the drop of a fucking hat.

I think referring to Miss DeBose as Anita Dubois is amusing and very DL.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that referring to Ariana DeBose as Anita Dubois is racist and/or misogynist, but it is witless and stupid and NOT REMOTELY amusing except to fools like R403.

I can see no reason why they needed to remake this film.

Rita Moreno croaking out Somewhere is unforgivable.

I enjoyed it, it isn't a replacement, and rita did a wonderful job in my opinion.

I had never seen the original before I watched the new, so I watched it yesterday. It’s awful! The tempi are so slow, and the singing is pretty dreadful. Yes, the Robins choreography is brilliant and mostly well executed, but the tempi sucked all the energy out of songs like America and the Dance at the Gym.

I appreciate that the new version uses tempi similar to the symphonic recording, which is apparently how Bernstein intended them. He liked things in the clippy side, and so do I.

I’ll rewatch the new version-probably several times. I’ve had sufficient of the original movie.

Is someone giving you $100 every time you type "tempi," r407?

R41 this is the dumbest comment I've seen on DL in a long time. Puerto Ricans we're pushing everyone else out of NYC. The 40s-60s was the time of White flight. The history is white washed by ethno narcissistic "brown" people but immigrantion from Puerto Rico brought a lot of crime and poverty. This was the time my grand parents fled the Bronx because Puerto Rican gangs kept painting Swastikas on their store front.

Gentrification = Jews and Italians taking cities back from Blacks and Puerto Ricans

Manhattan was first Natives American, then it was Dutch, then it was English, then came Jews, Italians, and Irish. Blacks and Puerto Ricans have only been in NYC for less than 100 years.

[quote] Is someone giving you $100 every time you type "tempi,"

If you’re offering r408, then sure! Tempi, tempi, tempi!

Tempo primo, ladies

[quote]I had never seen the original before I watched the new, so I watched it yesterday. It’s awful! The tempi are so slow, and the singing is pretty dreadful. Yes, the Robins choreography is brilliant and mostly well executed, but the tempi sucked all the energy out of songs like America and the Dance at the Gym. I appreciate that the new version uses tempi similar to the symphonic recording, which is apparently how Bernstein intended them. He liked things in the clippy side, and so do I.

You must be on drugs, because the tempi (do you like that?) for several of the songs on Bernstein's recording are notoriously, dreadfully slow, and I don't think a single tempo is notably fast. As for the '61 movie, that has some tempi are slower than the original Broadway cast recording, but some are faster, for example, the Tonight Quintet.

[quote] You must be on drugs, because the tempi (do you like that?) for several of the songs on Bernstein's recording are notoriously, dreadfully slow, and I don't think a single tempo is notably fast. As for the '61 movie, that has some tempi are slower than the original Broadway cast recording, but some are faster, for example, the Tonight Quintet.

Interesting! You could be right. I was so bored, I skipped ahead. I really noticed America and Dance at the Gym were painfully slow in the original.

Which pieces on the symphonic recording are considered slow? I assume since Bernstein conducted it and he was a bit of a control freak, the tempi on that recording are what he wanted.

^ I actually think Luke Evans sounds pretty darn good-- voice not as strong in some places but overall good and masculine. Still like the Carol Lawence and Larry Kert versio.

R389 why bother to get her name right? Here today gone tomorrow. Her career just peaked.

R417, piss off.

Scram!

Luke Evans might might have made a great Tony or Riff when he was young, he's a good singer and a damn good actor, and has the rough masculinity required to play a juvenile delinquent.

Too late now, of course, because as has been noted above - the characters have to be VERY young for their actions to make sense.

Finished it and found it lacking somehow after an auspicious beginning. Except for Riff and Anita, who were exceptional, it felt like a standard professional performance, perhaps the 100th performance. Joyless. Dull. Stale. I think that must be Steven's fault.

R418 Sorry Arianal but Look at Moreno's film career after winning the Oscar in the highly successful original in the same role.

'West Side Story' Tanking on VOD

I am now convinced that Americans just don’t really care to watch Steven Spielberg’s “West Side Story.”

Yes, despite a slew of Oscar nominations, not to mention glowing reviews, “West Side Story” has officially struggled to find an audience in all formats; streaming, theatrical, VOD, you name it. Safe for musical fans, there is no demographic whatsoever that has taken an interest in the film.

Its tepid $30 million intake at the box-office was one thing, but it is now bombing on VOD. Spielberg’s musical didn’t even crack the top ten on iTunes, this in its first week in digital release. The only chart it cracked was digital video store VUDU’s, barely squeaking into the #10 spot.

Suffice to say, it just doesn’t look as though “West Side Story” will break even, especially with what was reported to be a $100+ million budget to make the film. When all is said and done, a loss anywhere between $10-15 million is estimated.

This movie shit the bed and it REEKS.

I like it, no idea what all the gripes are about

I love musicals. West Side Story was and still is one of the finest musicals ever produced, whether on stage or in film. I love that it was boldly remade, and give props to the new cast for doing a fine job. It had to have been somewhat scary and stressful following the footsteps of a well-liked original cast.

Whenever I see West Side Story on TCM I'll still tune in. I expect I'll be doing the same whenever this most current version plays on TV. WSS did not need to be remade, but I am so pleased that it was. The world needs this kind of music and diversion to make a day brighter in what has become an ugly time in history. I give thanks to those that have contributed to making what I believe is a wonderful film.

On HBO tonight. It just opened in Dec. Both Nightmare Alley and WSS are nominated for Best Picture and it seems they want a big audience. WSS might have the record for a major motion picture to from screen to HBO in record time. Universal has forsaken "Dear Evan Hansen" which opened way back in Sept and is still only PPV.

Ben Platt really wanted to play Tony in this film so badly. His homemade audition tapes are still on youtube but they've been set to private.

^ audition videos, not tapes. Whatever.

....and they were excruciating.

BEN as TONY? LOL!

In interviews, Mike Faist said that he auditioned for Tony and was later offered Riff. That's pretty much the same thing that happened to Russ Tamblyn, the first movie Riff.

Russ Tamblyn had never danced before being cast in 7 Brides. He'd been an award winning gymnast and acrobat.

Which is not much difference, that's why gymnasts always do well on Dancing With The Stars.

Rita Moreno was robbed.

I watched the first ten minutes tonight. The colors seem muddy and I didn’t like the effects. The 61 version actually seemed more realistic. Not sure I’ll bother watching the whole thing. Also a remake like this needed stars to bring something new and exciting to it. Otherwise why bother remaking a classic.

Ansel Elgort looks like a serial killer with those beady unblinking eyes of his. This was cinematographically beautiful, but it was ultimately a soulless piece of shit. And I don't see the big deal about Ariana DeBose's performance - she was fine, nothing more.

I loved this, and especially loved Ariana DeBose (I hope she gets the Oscar) and Mike Faist. Faist really impressed me--he's not a handsome man by any means, but he is still somehow incredibly sexy.

There were great ideas for the staging, particularly the dance at the gym (with all the scenes behind the bleachers) and the big rumble (at the salt storage building for winter storms). I don't know that "Cool" worked so well, with the fight on the decrepit piers, but I loved staging "I Feel Pretty" after hours at Gimbel's where Maria and Anita and the other Puerto Rican girls are there to clean the place.

[quote]Faist really impressed me--he's not a handsome man by any means, but he is still somehow incredibly sexy.

I thought that too, like how a real street thug would be, he really isn’t that easy on the eyes, but compelling somehow

R438, Anita doesn’t work at Gimbels with Maria. The cleaners are a whole other different set of ladies than than the Shark’s girls, too.

Jesus, the ending for this version sucks so bad.

R426=Kate Crapshaw

R422, Moreno may have the freakin' (worthless) EGOT stuffed up her dried out cooter, but her career -- in general -- but especially in film, did indeed TANK after WWS.

Just ask Sally Struthers.

I saw it in a theater. While I did enjoy it. when I watched it again on HBO...in the comfort of my home, I enjoyed it more. In some ways, I think it's better than the 1961 movie (still love it, though). I'll watch it again.

WWS was shot in parts of Paterson and Newark, New Jersey. I thought that was cool.

[quote]Ben Platt really wanted to play Tony in this film so badly.

Had he been cast, I'm sure he would have.

The new Chino looks like a Hispanic Matt Damon.

He’s sweet stuff

I thought he looked like Jason Gotay. Thought that's who it was actually.

Ben Platt is beyond foolish.

I just got around to watching this and I only have one question:

How the hell did Baby John’s ear heal so fast?

I'm thinking that the beginning of the story is on a Friday...Friday night dance....then Saturday to Saturday night when the rumble takes place and the shooting of Tony. I think too much... :)

He had a nail through his ear in the first scene, and no sign of injury thereafter. Not even a bandage.

[quote]And I don't see the big deal about Ariana DeBose's performance - she was fine, nothing more.

Her performance included sensational dancing and in a group, you couldn't take your eyes off her.

She was great.

R453, you couldn't take your eyes of her yellow dress.

Oscars: How did Ariana DeBose Undeservedly Become the Supporting Actress Frontrunner? March 13, 2022 Jordan Ruimy

Ariana DeBose has just won the BAFTA for Best Supporting Actress. This, in addition to her important SAG win sets her up to undeservedly win the Oscar.

Don’t ask me how the “West Side Story” actress has become the frontrunner in her category. Her performance wasn’t better than Rachel Zegler, Mike Faist, or even Rita Moreno’s in her own movie. Again. narrative, narrative, narrative. It’s all about that and DeBose has become a darling of social media and punditry these last few months.

Can you seriously pinpoint a scene or moment in “West Side Story” where DeBose stole the show? I can’t. She’s always in the background, or when she is in the foreground gets overshadowed by whomever shares the frame with her. It’s maddening to think she is set to win the Oscar in a few weeks.

I find it very strange that DeBose has had this trajectory to the top of the heap in her category. Will Oscar voters realize that Kirsten Dunst (“The Power of the Dog”) deserves to win this category hands down? I sure hope so. Dunst delivers the best performance of her career. You can feel her character’s mental anguish throughout Jane Campion’s film by purely staring at her weary and anguished eyes. It’s sorrowfully brilliant work on her part.

Hell, give the Oscar to Jessie Buckley (“The Lost Daughter”) if you have to. Just not DeBose.

[quote] when she is in the foreground gets overshadowed by whomever shares the frame with her...

This is the line where I bailed. I could not take may eyes off of her no matter who was in the scene with her. I watched the movie a second time to listen closely to her line readings, and I'm still convinced she was really great in the film.

I never believed her. She was always "acting."

Acting like a damn speedy Gonzales cartoon. R456 The reason you didn't notice her is because she's a chorus girl who belongs in the damn Chorus!

[quote]Can you seriously pinpoint a scene or moment in “West Side Story” where DeBose stole the show?

Yea the almost rape in the drugstore scene, the scene where she finds Tony in the house after he killed her man. Some people here don't seem to understand what supporting means and not every past winner has a big scene chewing scene. Plus she's the best dancer in the movie. It will be a deserved win.

I'm old enough to remember when "Being the least bad actor in a cast full of people who can't act" didn't necessarily deserve an Oscar.

Ooooops I forgot I was at Datalounge where no matter how good an actor is, if they are out, successful and happy, it's unacceptable.

She was also terrific in "The Prom".

Tony should have run off with Chino. Then this whole mess could have been avoided.

I really liked it—except for the ending which was typical Spielberg schmaltz.

[quote]I'm old enough to remember when "Being the least bad actor in a cast full of people who can't act" didn't necessarily deserve an Oscar.

We agree with the first part of your sentence: You are really, really old.

[quote]I really liked it—except for the ending which was typical Spielberg schmaltz.

I agree that the ending was not as effective as the original movie, but I didn't think it was because Spielberg laid on any schmaltz. I did like the fact that Maria saw Chino about to shoot Tony from behind, and I thought Rachel Zegler's scream at that moment was very real. But somehow, what happened afterwards was a little flat. What did you think was schmaltzy about the ending? Did you not like the stuff with Valentina leading Chino to the cops?

I loved it!

Anita was fantastic!

Liked it. Mainly because Spielberg shot it era specific aside from the lens flare. Agree that giving Rita Morena to croak sing the best song Somewhere was a waste. Has anyone tried to do a sequel. West Side Story 2: Maria! A lot to mine. Chino's revenge, Tony and Maria's kid, Maria as a community activist or showgirl.

Actually, yes. Some husband and wife duo are trying to write a sequel, based on the idea that Maria returned to Puerto Rico, and set during Hurricane Maria (subtle, huh?). It's amusing, as this story came out then within days - despite they themselves saying it was a sequel to WSS - they were 'clarifying' it had nothing to do with WSS at all. The lawyers had obviously been in touch.

Before:

[quote]When Long Wharf Theatre first announced the project last year, it issued a press release picked up in a trade publication proclaiming that “UNIVERSES, in celebration of the 25th anniversary of the ensemble, will use the commission to develop a new musical, Maria.” “A response to cultural appropriation in West Side Story, the new musical focuses on what happens to Maria after the original musical concludes,” the press release continued.

And after:

[quote]“It is important to distinguish that this is not a sequel to West Side Story or a derivative work but has its own genesis rooted in Mildred’s own family experience and deep connection to Puerto Rico,” insisted Long Wharf Theatre in a statement with the writers, Steven Sapp and Mildred Ruiz-Sapp of the theatre group Universes.

Another funny part is how they whine about cultural appropriation - and yet the husband isn't Puerto Rican. But he explains it's okay, because he grew up around a lot of people who spoke Spanish, and that's almost as good, right? Yes, that is genuinely the argument he used.

I was watching the movie with a friend and he pointed out the lens flare. After he pointed it out, I was conscious of how much it's overused, almost to a ridiculous degree. Very surprised at Spielberg for that.

I’m bored of that uneducated lowlife racist who has over 100 redtagged accounts and many more socks crying. DeBose was much much better than Dunst. The only person better than her who is nominated is Aunjanue or however it’s spelled.

[quote]Agree that giving Rita Morena to croak sing the best song Somewhere was a waste.

Can't disagree more. I thought it was heart breaking and the best scene in the movie. Did you expect a 90 year old world weary woman to sing like a 30 year old? Moreno was robbed of a nomination for this scene alone.

I like how the American dance scene included the community and had some children dance. I think the upgrades in scenes and sequences were good, plus there is more of a background of Tony's story. Both movies, 1961 and 2021, are equally great in their own way. This doesn't diminish my love of the original movie.

*America dance scene^^

R474...That would have been cool if Moreno was nominated again....and won. Missed opportunity...two oscars from both West Side Story movies.

[quote]I like how the American dance scene included the community and had some children dance.

I particularly liked that too

That dance sequences were exuberant

The fact that Tony’s real name is Anton is a subtle reminder that despite their American accents the Jets are first or second generation immigrants themselves.

Not to mention Puerto Ricams ARE Americans.

the irony

As pointed out above “America” is set at around 9 am in the morning. PLEASE.

And it looked like IN THE HEIGHTS. please.

Did it?

[quote] I did like the fact that Maria saw Chino about to shoot Tony from behind, and I thought Rachel Zegler's scream at that moment was very real.

YES!! It was so well shot and done. Spielberg at his best, turning something that could have been basic and standard into something kinetic and horrifying. And then two seconds later it lost all inspiration and fell apart.

I’m not totally onboard the Ariana DeBose train yet. I’ve seen The Prom, Schmigadoon, and now WSS and while I think she’s extra talented, for me she lacks a little bit of ease and natural charm that’s required for stardom. It all feels a little workmanlike. HOWEVER, when she’s cooking with gas, like in America and ABLT, it’s really exceptional and unlike what anyone can currently do on screen. I have absolutely no problem with her winning. She’s a literal (yellow dress) bright spot in the movie.

They shot a substantial amount of the movie in Paterson. The partially torn down tenements where they shot Doc’s and all the outdoor stuff was built on parking lots behind where they shot America, etc. Gimbel’s was shot in a building in downtown Newark that has a grand lobby, and is now an apartment building.

Love it! Thank you R486.

She was cooking with gas in ABLT? With that wimpy bitch slap, no rage, and flat vocals? Yea ok. 👌R485 Do you know anything about actual human emotions? Especially a Latina. Haha.

[quote]And it looked like IN THE HEIGHTS. please.

Please "In The Heights" couldn't even muster a Best Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy Golden Globe nominee.

Ok but the 'America' number still looked like IN THE HEIGHTS. So what's your point. It got nominations because of Spielberg. Don't be so naive at your age. It's not a good look.

So the "America" number shouldn't have been re-conceived to feature dancing in the streets just because IN THE HEIGHTS has some numbers with the cast dancing in the streets? What sort of twisted logic is that?

I hate to say it, but though the "America" number in the original movie is brilliant in itself, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for all of those people to leave the dance at the gym around 11pm or so, THEN go to hang out on the rooftop of one of the tenements and dance up a storm after having danced up a storm all night at the gym.

So you prefer the juvenile version where Spielberg had them literally point at things and pictures to match the lyrics like a kindergarten class while dancing in the street (which is so pedestrian and simple) like a kids picture book. Ha! Talk about twisted logic. Because, by your perspective, Ricans couldn't possibly wanna continue the party up on a roof top and keep dancing? Haha. You don't know Latinos AT ALL.

it's hard to top rita moreno in brownface

"In The Heights" sucked and flopped accordingly. Not everyone kneels to the alter of Lin-Manuel Miranda.

^^^And also JON CHU who should not have a directing career anywhere. Look at his track record. Some of the biggest flops in film history. But guess what, you know why he does? SPIELBERG. See the connection there. Especially between the two films. That's how they "bonded".

When I was a little girl an eccentric family friend took me and her daughter to one of the big movie houses in Hollywood (early 70s) for a special double feature of West Side Story and Around The World in 80 Days - she said that WSS was a beautiful ballet movie - I didn’t know what I was seeing - I was 6 or 7 - the sound of them scaling the chain link fence - the knife, the rumble the screaming and crying - SCARED the hell out of this little princess! The in teen years loved it watched the VHS 0ver and over. Loved the OBC recording with Lawrence and Kerr. I’ve played Velma twice years ago. By the time this new movie rolled around I hadn’t been “into” WSS for years. I didn’t want to see it because I didn’t want to interrupt old memories. Well I watched it on HBO over the weekend - I REALLY liked it. It didn’t replace or take away from the old one - it was wild hearing passages of music from the prologue and Dance at The Gym that took me back in time to happy (or scary ) times in my life. It was a lot more Joyous than I expected. I would have preferred Doc over Rita but even that didn’t bother me to distraction.

Larry KERT NOT John KERR - I have no idea why I typed that - I need some Tea and Sympathy!

What you need is to get your ass outta here! NO GIRLS ALLOWED.

R492, you sound like a racist as well as an idiot. But that's not surprising, as those two things almost always go together.

R499 haha. oh my gosh. I AM LATINO you stupid fckhead. You're the one who keeps responding to everyone's criticism saying "I don't understand what you mean by that". Haha. Here's what it means, you're an ignoramus who knows nothing of the real world. Are you getting paid to defend this WSS? GET. A. FUCKING. LIFE. 🤡🤡🤡

R499 AND you couldn't even tell the movie has all that CGI even on their faces! Do you need an example or two of that as well? You fucking idiot.

I'm not R499, but I'll take some examples of that CGI on faces

Yes, R501, I need an example of CGI "on their faces," you unhinged POS. And if you are Latino but you still made your comment about "Ricans," I guess that's an example of internal racism.

R503 It's still you! Lmao. Go tell it to your therapist you little monkey freak. Haha.

I want to see "Dear Evan Hansen" who managed to garner zero award nominations but I'm not paying extra PPV for it. I already pay for all the streaming channels.

R276 I think it's accurate. The colors and the costumes utilize bold primary colors giving it a cartoonish look and the cinematography makes NYC clean and pretty rather than gritty. Rachel Zegler is reminiscent of a Disney Princess and the "America" number is cute with a number of young kids joining in the dance and people stopping and getting out of cars in the middle of the street to join in the fun.

Did they use cgi on Ben Platt's face in Hanson? And he still came out looking that? Whoever did that really had it out for the fathead.

In WSS they turned up the sexy meter on Faist.

[quote]The colors and the costumes utilize bold primary colors giving it a cartoonish look and the cinematography makes NYC clean and pretty rather than gritty.

Again, some of you people are only seeing what you want to see. The comment about the cinematography making NYC look "clean and pretty" is particularly bizarre.

R508 As seen through my eyes Spielberg's WSS is a prettification of the darker tougher 1961 version: the scene at the gym seems like something out of Grease and the America number feels like Newsies. Spielberg was accused of prettification for The Color Purple and the same applies here.

The America number is bizarre for other reasons than its picturesqueness. Why in the world would a bunch of immigrants dance in the streets making jokes about their homeland in front of a lot of gringoes who already thought they were trash who came from exactly the awful place the Sharks are describing in song? America worked in '57 and '61 because the Sharks and girls were joking amongst themselves, not in front of outsiders.

r510 Excellent point. Spielberg does this nonsense all the time. He may be a "great" director, but he also defangs and sentimentalizes so much of the material.

R510, your "logic" eludes me. And somehow you didn't notice that only in the men in the number are deriding America, while the women are praising it.

What eludes me R512 is why you have well over 40 posts on this thread and defend this movie as if your life depended on it and that you can't simply accept that fact that people have different opinions.

Looking back at the 1961 Natalie Wood had three strikes against her. 1. She wasn't Puerto Rican. 2. Her singing was dubbed. 3. Three actors were better: Rita of course and George and Russ. But you take those three away it she still gave the best and most seamless performance of her life. And anyone who met Nat at a gym dance the way she looked would surely and truly be singing "Maria' on the street right after. No suspension of disbelief required.

r512, I'm not sure what is eluding you. There was no "logic" involved; I meant to say--and said--that none of the Puerto Ricans would have trashed Puerto Rico in front of outsiders.

I'm even more puzzled by the point you seem to be trying to make in pointing out that only the men are deriding America. So what? That's a change from the '57 staging, which pitted some of the girls against others, but really not relevant to this discussion.

I loved the 1961 original and enjoyed this one quite a bit. I found myself singing/humming along with the songs, and felt everyone did a great job. And Ariana DeBose is about to make Academy history, winning an Oscar for the same role as Rita Morena did for the original.

It would be nice if she brought Moreno has her date to the Oscars.

It's a shame Mike Feist wasn't nominated as Riff.

R515 there's no tension or heat in the America scene in Spielberg's film. Anita and Bernardo seem more like siblings than lovers and everyone is smiling broadly. In the 1961 film the number emerges from the dialog between Anita and Bernado where he says she's been brainwashed by Uncle Sam and the song lyric 'let it sink into the ocean' among others has been dropped from the remake.

[quote]What eludes me [R512] is why you have well over 40 posts on this thread and defend this movie as if your life depended on it and that you can't simply accept that fact that people have different opinions.

So, is there some limit to the number of times I'm allowed to express my disagreement with your opinions? If so, I'd like to know the number, just out of curiosity. Then, of course, I'll disregard that information. And P.S., my life doesn't depend on "defending" the movie any more than your does on criticizing it.

R515, seeing how the Sharks are engaged in gang warfare with the Jets, and seeing as how Bernardo and several of the other Sharks express their hatred for the way they're treated in America in several lines of dialogue throughout the movie, I hardly think the Sharks would hesitate to express negative feelings about America in front of white people during the "America" number. So I have no idea what you're talking about, but you are REALLY stretching to find ways to criticize this movie.

R517, it's factually incorrect that "everyone is smiling broadly" throughout the "America" number in the new WSS. There are PARTS of the number when everyone is smiling broadly, including the men -- but that's also true of the original film, as I previously pointed out. In both films, there are several sections of the number in which Bernardo and the other men are NOT smiling broadly as they enumerate the difficulties of immigrants living in America. And there are other sections where they ARE smiling broadly because they're enjoying the dance and having fun.

Once again, some of you people are just making things up to criticize this movie. And that's an extremely annoying thing to do. It's fine to criticize things you don't like about the movie if those things are actually present in, or absent from, the movie, but there's really no point in making false statements about the content.

[quote]I'm even more puzzled by the point you seem to be trying to make in pointing out that only the men are deriding America. So what? That's a change from the '57 staging, which pitted some of the girls against others, but really not relevant to this discussion.

That change was made for the '61 film, and I was only pointing out that the dynamic of the number is almost exactly the same in that film and the new one. Also that there is no reason for the women not to be smiling broadly throughout the number in either version, as they are focusing on the positive aspects of living in America. Understand?

r521. Of course I don't understand; you seem to be having some difficulty in articulating your points, whatever they are. And what on earth is your "smiling broadly" point responding to?

Never min; I don't especially care to continue this ridiculous discussion with you.

R522, my "smiling broadly" comment was in response to R517, who used those words. If you are not R517, then the comment wasn't directed at you -- but you and I are not the only two people in this discussion.

My point was that there is no reason why the women wouldn't be smiling broadly during the "America" number, since they are saying positive things about America, whereas the men are doing the opposite. And yes, I know this was change from the Broadway show, which had only women in the number. But it seems to me that the majority of people in this thread are comparing the Spielberg film to the '61 film, not to the original Broadway production.

I don't think I'm having any difficulty in articulating my points, so maybe the problem is (1) the fact that you think I'm addressing you when I'm actually addressing someone else, and/or (2) just a general lack of comprehension on your part.

R518 The idea that I was imposing some limit to posting is bizarre and factually incorrect.

That's exactly what you were implying, R524. Go back and read what you yourself wrote, if you can stand it.

R525 if you think that's the implication then so be it. I don't need to re read it you quoted it.

Since you directed your comments to my post, r521, it was reasonable to infer that you were indeed addressing me. Now that I understand that you are channeling Professor Irwin Corey, I see my mistake.

R527 it's not your mistake it's your parents' mistake. Brandy and Johnny Walker should never have had a child.

Jesus, you really are an asshole.

R529 You'll burn in hell for calling Jesus an asshole.

R517, whoever that is, wrote:

[quote]"There's no tension or heat in the America scene in Spielberg's film. Anita and Bernardo seem more like siblings than lovers and everyone is smiling broadly."

I responded:

[quote]R517, it's factually incorrect that "everyone is smiling broadly" throughout the "America" number in the new WSS.

So I don't understand where the confusion lies here, but I'm pretty sure it's your confusion rather than mine.

Why not hire a private detective to find out R531 where the confusion lies because no one is concerned about it but you?

R523 Talk about confused! Slow down girl!

r517 seems to be the source of all the confusion here.

R534 also R523 R499 R346 R360 and literally dozens of others Good for you Sherlock!

This is why we can’t have nice things

r346, what was Sondheim's role in getting Ansel Elgort cast?

R442 Struthers appeared with Moreno in a female stage version of the Neil Simon's The Odd Couple so why would I ask her about Moreno's film career? The 1950s was her busiest decade, but after winning the Oscar in 1962 her film appearances were few and scattered and mostly in obscure films. She appeared in only 2 feature film in the 80s the popular Four Seasons and Happy Birthday, Gemini an has 4 film credits in the 70s of which 2 are notable: 1 scene in Carnal Knowledge and the film version of The Ritz where she recreated her Tony-award winning performance as Googie Gomez. Following her win in 1962 she appeared in Somar (1962) Cry of Battle (1963) and 3 1969 releases Marlowe, Popi and The Night of the Following Day.

R373 actually Betty Wand dubbed Moreno for that scene because the song was outside of Moreno's range. Moreno did do her own singing for "America"

I'm an ancient eldergay though too young to have seen the film when it first came out I did see it when it was reissued in theaters years later which they did for super popular films back then before they premiered on TV.

I came out weeping completely destroyed by what I had seen, It's been a favorite film ever since.

I like neither remakes of great films nor Spielberg. I'm one of THOSE people who think Duel is the best thing he ever did. The mechanical shark straight out of a Universal Studios tram tour ruined that film but I do want to see Sugarland Express.

Anyway I enjoyed WSS enormously until and including the rumble where I was tearing up at the terrible deaths of Faist and Alvarez. The two of them are so cute. But that's when Spielberg ran out of energy. The rape of Anita had no where the shock and terror of the original and boy did Zegler come a cropper in the final scene. Even Ansel did nothing when calling out for death by Chino. Beymer is heart wrenching screaming out for Chino wanting nothing more desperately than to die clinging on to the metal fences because he can barely stand. Immediate followed by Wood giving the best performance of her life which is why when the first film came out everyone who saw it like me were crying at the end.

How Spielberg watered down those two surefire scenes is beyond me. Though I did like the long shot of Moreno walking Chino towards the cop car improbable as it was. I did find that very moving.

I watch the Dance at the Gym and Cool from the '61 film on youtube often. Not only is the choreography genius. But as technically good dancers are today they come no where near the sense of style and power Robbin's dancers had. Especially the women. Look at the way their backs move at the beginning of the Mambo. That is completely lost and dancers simply can't do that anymore.

[quote]Anyway I enjoyed WSS enormously until and including the rumble where I was tearing up at the terrible deaths of Faist and Alvarez. The two of them are so cute. But that's when Spielberg ran out of energy. The rape of Anita had no where the shock and terror of the original and boy did Zegler come a cropper in the final scene. Even Ansel did nothing when calling out for death by Chino. Beymer is heart wrenching screaming out for Chino wanting nothing more desperately than to die clinging on to the metal fences because he can barely stand. Immediate followed by Wood giving the best performance of her life which is why when the first film came out everyone who saw it like me were crying at the end.

While I'm a fan of the new film overall, I do agree with all of your criticisms here -- though I'm not sure it's completely Zegler's fault that the final scene falls kind of flat, I think it's at least partly because the rewrite is not as powerful as the original. Anyway, thank you for providing intelligent and accurate criticism of the movie, rather than making up stuff that's not true.

Count me as someone who totally bought the final scenes. The “acting” in the original is a relic a style gone by 1970. Beymer acts like Mildred Pierce, which may be great if you’re into that kind of thing.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the current controversy at the gossip sites: Regler didn't get an invitation to the Academy Awards. It's true that she wasn't nominated but it's very unusual that a star of a film nominated for best film isn't invited. The Academy is silently blaming Disney for the way they allotted the tickets they were given. Was it a deliberate slight or carelessness?

There's a thread on it R543.

Thanks for the link to the other thread, r544. I try to keep up, I really do, but too often I fail. I do the best I can.

She should still have received an invitation to attend, which she could have declined if Disney insisted she remain on set for that lame Snow White film in London.

There’s a specific moment when Anita is leaving the police station where I thought DeBose was doing something obvious and fake and so not worthy of an Oscar nomination-she stops, puts her hand on her waist and puffs out a breath. That’s known as “indicating” and is as untruthful as acting gets.

Local CBS NYC 11pm news just reported she's been asked to present but without details.Weird. I guess someone is trying to save face. But who?

ABC or 20th Century Fox…all roads lead back to Disney

R546 It would've been Disney inviting her, so why would they bother if they were insisting she work instead?

R548 Yes, they're rearranging production of Snow White to let her go now.

I watched this at home yesterday and was pleasurably surprised how much I liked it. For context, I'm an EG who knows the music but never saw the original movie from start to finish. Random thoughts: No matter what you may think of the choreography, at least you could SEE it. No MTV-style editing and constant camera angle changes. The gang members were believably threatening as opposed to obvious chorus line queens. Singing was all good, even Elgort. I thought the performance by Iris Menas as Anybodys was fucking fantastic, especially her big scene toward the end. Ansel Elgort is an oddity to me. Can't Hollywood manufacture real stars anymore? From some camera angles I guess he looks like he belongs on a movie screen, but from others he is pretty fug. Rachel Z sings pretty and looked good, but I don't know if anyone could make much out the role as written.

R543 Were Russ Tamblyn or Richard Beymer invited to the Oscars the year the original WSS won 10 Oscars including Best Picture?

This girl is starting to believe her own hype.

R553 the hype was brief and pretty much ended a few weeks after the film opened and failed to attract an audience.

[quote] This girl is starting to believe her own hype.

Link?

[quote]I watched this at home yesterday and was pleasurably surprised how much I liked it. For context, I'm an EG who knows the music but never saw the original movie from start to finish.

What is an EG?

Elder Gay, I believe.

I just finished watching this and in my opinion where it erred was the relationship between Tony and Maria. I just didn't buy that they were passionately in love with one another. Some majorly lacking chemistry. Moreno performed her part like there was a giant stick lodged up her ass. I liked Riff. The whole thing felt forced and fake to me. The original had a heart in it, a beating one. This one was Teflon in comparison. I didn't like Anita much either. There was a purity to the original this one doesn't have.

Don't get the love for Mike Faist. Beside the fact that he's odd looking he comes across as a weepy queen and is not convincing as the leader of a street gang.

Russ, Mike can dance. You can only tumble.

R560 but he can't rumble . Faist still seems like he's doing Newsies

I enjoyed it.