Was Prince an autogynephiliac?

Mild?

He was a gay, drug abusing, flooze.

"Cream, get on top. Cream, shaboozie bop. Look up in the air, it's a guitar."

No. He was bisexual and androgynous. But completely male. Just like David Bowie and others prior. As an artist he liked to push boundaries and explore identity with his music and videos. Today it seems people take things too literally and need to assign a meaning to remove any ambiguity. Prince was all about ambiguity.

What evidence is there that he was bisexual?

Well, he had to wear high heels out of necessity.

Anyone get get a girl pregnant. You just need a cup and turkey baster. 101.

Prince's style was just taken from the 1970s pimp look popularized by Superfly and The Mack. Funk artists love that style. Rick James, Katt Williams, Andre 3000 and Snoop Dogg also have that look.

[quote] He was bisexual and androgynous. But completely male.

Wow.

Autogynephilia definitely does not mean he was not a male.

Didn't Boy George claim to sleep with him?

George subsequently said he was joking.

Prince had way too many female muses. He was the original Kanye. Cuckoo crazy, but also creative. I think he could've pulled off a full on sex change and rebrand himself as a female artist. But he rather chose to reinvent himself differently by joining Jehovah Witness and calling himself Symbol. And going after fan sites using his images and songs.

Watch "Monterey Pop" or google Jimi Hendrix and see how much Jimi's style (puffy shirts, ruffles, tight pants, boots, scarves, jewelry and other hippie shit) influenced Prince....also influenced by Jimi's guitar heroism, sexy humping on stage, 'O face' and such...I'd also say that after Prince got out of his leather briefs look, he sported a version of the "New Romantic" look that was a pop music staple in the early 80s. ("A Zoro type outfit...looked like something a figure skater would wear.")

Dinky as he was, Prince was on his high school basketball team.

"If I Was Your Girlfriend" is pure autogynephilia.

Stop prying.

I feel autogynephilia isn't uncommon as a sexual fantasy but very rarely does it mean being trans gender unless that person has an extreme fixation. I think Prince was just a gender bender like David Bowie and liked to play with personas. As he aged he got more conservative and dressed less flamboyant though he kept the eyeliner and purple clothes.

Prince was straight, maybe a little bit experimentally bisexual, androgynous, and absolutely, unapologetically, male.

Do not trans the dead, it's rude.

One time he went door to door witnessing. Can you imagine opening up your front door and Prince is standing there wanting to come inside and give you a copy of the Watchtower??

He overdosed and died alone...in an elevator! Shameful!

He was a midget no?

Gay drag queen.

Michael Jackson was a better case of an autogynephiliac. Completely femme and even transitioned his appearance to look like a woman. He actually wanted to look like Diana Ross when young, then copied La Toya's surgery and then went further and further that he became a white woman. His voice even got higher too.

Prince was very masculine and he did like to play with gender, sexuality and race early in his career like many high concept video artists do but the older he got the more conservative he got in style and presentation. Many pretty boys are cis and masculine, they can't help they are pretty. It's genetics and Prince looked like his mother who was a beautiful woman.

Michael Jackson could not have been an autogynephiliac because he wasn't sexually interested in women.

Can someone define the word?

It's supposedly a condition where a man gets aroused by the idea of being a woman and others validating that idea. I don't know why it has to be strictly heterosexual like R23 claims. Anyway, Prince wasn't an autogynephile just because he was a gender-bender and created personas and wrote lyrics for his music. Part of being an artist is using your imagination and song lyrics are not autobiographical.

Michael Jackson hated his physical appearance (being black and childhood trauma). It had nothing to do with looking more feminine. Plastic surgery was, and in some way still is, women's domain and that's how many people perceived his physical transformation (only women get that much plastic surgery).

Let the dead rest in pieces...

What's different about him was his obsessive use of women as artistic proxies, typically highly sexualised in image and with an emphasis of the kind of clothes and presentation that transvestic fetishists get off on: the suspenders and lingerie etc.

The song If I Was Your Girlfriend sound very autogynephilic to me.

R10, Jill Jones went ballistic when Boy George joked about that. I had to unfriend her on Facebook.

What did she say?

It's been so long ago I don't recall exactly what she said, but it was over the whole "I slept with Prince" joke Boy George made which he later clarified that he slept with a poster of Prince on his wall.

Autogynephilies are straight men. They are turned on by female bodies generally, but specifically the notion of having a female body or presentation themselves. Others perceiving them as women is a part of the kink. They typically imagine themselves as lesbians and wanting to have sex as a lesbian. Someone like Michael Jackson, who was not into women, could not be an autogynephile.

Case closed

"If I was your girlfriend" is Not the musings of an autogynephile, but a not too emotionally intelligent straight man who has noticed that intra female friendships, a lot of the time have the emotional support that straight men ( or men who live heterosexually) can't or won't provide to their wives and girlfriends. There is nothing in the song to suggest that him taking the place of his woman's girlfriend, emotionally is him wanting to be a woman or him getting off on him imagining himself as a woman. There is something so dunce about the youngins and the elders who didn't get the gist of anything first time round that they have to parse everything to the point that they refuse to pick up NUANCE. COMPREHENSION motherfuckers!

Oh yes, definitely no autogynephilia here....

Is it really necessary for me to go out of the room Just because you want to undress? We don't have to make children to make love And we don't have to make love to have an orgasm Your body's what I'm all about Can I see it? I'll show you Why not? You can do it because I'm your friend I'd do it for you Of course I'd undress in front of you And when I'm naked, what shall I do? How can I make you see that it's cool? Can't you just trust me? If I was your girlfriend, you could Oh yeah, I think so Listen, for you naked I would dance a ballet Would that get you off? Tell me what will If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me?

It’s interesting how he got away with that look in the 80s. There were a lot of homophobes back then who were totally cool with Prince.

^^^isn’t that song about role-reversal, kind of like Beyoncé ‘If I Were A Boy’? So Prince is imagining what he’d say to his girl if she were a male (in his power position) and he were the ‘girlfriend’.

Or maybe I have that wrong, idk.

Wendy & Lisa have said Prince was like a "fancy lesbian".

R18, my parents live very near to Paisley Park. My mom always hoped Prince would show up on her doorstep one day witnessing for Jehovah. Sadly it never came to be. My parents are Lutherans, not at all interested in JW but just wanted Prince to come by.

In America, if you aren't morbidly obese, you must have some weird shit labels attached to your name.

Hi, I'm Princesss! I'm an alcoholic, bipolar, autogynephiliac, necrophiliac anorexic! But first let me pop my identity pills!!!

R32 Okay and why can't a man also be attracted to men and get turned on by them seeing them as a woman? I don't understand how it's only a heterosexual male thing. There are gay men who crossdress and take a feminine role and pronouns called "sissies" and "fembois"

Also a lot of people get turned on by looking at themselves in a mirror and the idea of someone finding them hot. It's called vanity and exhibitionism hence why we have porn stars, models and celebrities. A lot of one's ego is linked to sexuality

If Princess had lived we would have been besties.

R25 I certainly hope so.

[quote] What evidence is there that he was bisexual?

He sang about it. Am I black or white/am I straight or gay

Prince and his then wife Mayte knocked on my cousin’s door late one afternoon and didn’t introduce themselves they just blurted out “are you prepared for the end”? My cousin said she just stood there speechless as Prince & Mayte wore a long hooded coats. She said she told them she was Baptist and that she just bought an imported copy of Sheena Easton Fabulous from the UK. Prince smiled and gave her a watchtower and said he would stop by later. They left and started out towards her neighbors house. Their vehicle was a black SUV parked about 200 ft away. I asked her what Prince looked like up close and she said he was built like a 12 yr old boy with a 40 yr old head.

I can definitely see Prince, Bowie and Mick Jagger (when he dies) being revised as transgender. Even those glam rock and hair metal bands with all their songs about pussy and homophobic lyrics will get revised as transgender or nonbinary. I feel we are going backwards and getting more gender stereotypical than less.

That story is almost too good to be real r45.

[quote] Prince had way too many female muses. He was the original Kanye. Cuckoo crazy, but also creative.

Prince played dozens of instruments and wrote hundreds of songs. Why exactly would you compare him to a bipolar rap artist . There's an endless number of eccentric musicians from which to choose.

Name some r48. Not being snarky, just curious.

Prince wrote songs that were romantic and focused on the pleasure of the female. He's nothing like Kanye who used his music to objectify women and blame them. Kanye was a talented producer with high concepts and clever use of samples but not a single one of his highs reached the genius Prince. Prince at his lowest was still miles more talented than Yeezy.

R49 David Bowie, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, Jimi Hendrix, Screamin Jay Hawkins, James Brown, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Nina Simone, etc. A lot of mentally unstable and eccentric musicians.

[quote] Plastic surgery was, and in some way still is, women's domain

[quote] Plastic surgery was, and in some way still is, women's domain

[quote] Plastic surgery was, and in some way still is, women's domain

I trust I've made my point.

People really think every song is autobiographical? Did people skip out on critical thinking lessons? I'm seriously scared because authors and songwriters have to self censor to be avoid being controversial and problematic. Art that isn't challenging and provocative is bland.

I was offering an example r55.

Fuck all these terms. I just miss Prince.

R56 Songs aren't tools to diagnose people with mental conditions. They are creative works of a writer not a documentary. But people will believe that they want to believe.

I always felt Prince leaned more straight despite the make up and outrageous outfits because if he were gay he wouldnt have been caught dead in them lest someone figure it out. I think he was just a very femme straight guy. They do exist you know. That being said,I cried like a bitch the day he died. I loved him from the git go.

R59, did you cry for me? FU, twat.

Songs like Nasty Girl and Sex Shooter (while fun!) project male fantasies onto female sexuality. Women generally don't think or act like that. Both songs feel very "transvestic perv" to me. It's no secret Prince saw Vanity as a female proxy, or a direct mirror. He wanted to call her Vagina. Very perverted and fetishistic. I loved the whole thing.

I liked your post r61 but for whatever reason when I read back in the day that Prince wanted to call Vanity Vagina I did not approve. I was young back then but I still don’t approve!

He was a prolific songwriter & musician. He was writing songs meant to be sung by people of all genders. There are 100% straight guys that are into crossdressing.

I am an African American woman who grew up listening to Prince songs and I never once thought of him as straight. He always projected bisexuality to me. He is one of the very few bi male artist who had a sizable portion of straight male fans. Come to think of it so did Michael Jackson. I don't know how some straight men would think those two were straight.

For a man, PRN had an unuusual productive degree of depth and scope and concept to his curiosity about pussy. But ultimately, it was still just curiosity about pussy.

Disagree. He hid behind his sexuality. It was protective too.

There is no way a gay or bi-leaning gay man would or could have poured a lifetime of energy into writing with such levels of conviction about seducing gorgeous women.

As for AGP....different question, and hard to say. Hopefully not, because AGPs are mostly creepy fucks who get off on violating women and minors. Prince did have an interest in talking about and wearing womens’ attire sometimes, but he also seemed to prefer them on (or, coming off of) women. IMO female bodies still did more to interest and arouse him than whatever they wore.

[quote] He was writing songs meant to be sung by people of all genders.

While I would love for a dapper and glam lesbian to pull off Prince covers, I have yet to see this happen. I think it might sound awkward.

As another poster upthread said, women don’t sexually think of themselves or other women in the way men do, so to express their sexuality requires different and specific female language and tropes and articulation. Prince had a male sexual & artistic voice, no matter what he had on.

I don't think AGP naturally equals abusive. But Prince did impose pornographic personas on his female proxies that some of them did not love.

Those protogees were fucking P and knew what he was about. They were grateful since they mostly had no talent and were getting a platform. Basically bimbo groupies getting promoted. He used them as vessels for his sound that he wanted from a feminine voice.

Great, another stupid label. Did this person really contribute anything good to civilization beyond the music? I don't think so. And the music was very meh! He didn't even sing, he spoke the low and squealed the high.

He was that rare thing; someone who was both a true artist, AND commercially successful.

He shat all over that fool Michael Jackson.

That doesn't mean we can't speculate about the nature of his driving creative forces, which were GOD and SEX.

Tbf to OP Prince always did sometimes lampoon female sexuality with a camp and silly edge, and we know that AGPs & MTFs mostly stereotype women in lurid and offensive and clownlike ways.

*^“‘Goodness!’ NOTHIN’ baby, I’m busy! Whaddayou WANT?l” and “Save it, honey, put it in the bank!” get me everytime lol

You may have a point, OP.

He talked about "Camille" and he had a femme side, for sure. But I don't know if it was autogynephilia, and it certainly wasn't wrapped up in sexuality or being gay.

The song "If I Was Your Girlfriend" tells a story that fits into this theory.

Prince was able to play with androgyny precisely because he was secure in his masculinity. I saw him perform live in 1995, and onstage he projected an image of total control and swaggering confidence. All the women were swooning.

The idea of a proselytising Prince is hilarious. In my mind’s eye I see him blocking the door with his dainty, high-heeled ankle boot.

I am from Minneapolis and was in my 20s in the early 90s when Glam Slam was a club and Prince would often hold after parties at Paisley Park. Many, many, many times when I was at the club he'd be there hitting on beautiful women, including some of my friends. Typically it would be his bodyguard hitting on them for Prince who tended to sit away from everyone. Once we all got to the after party at PP (I went to several), Prince would either be there or not, but if he was there he wouldn't talk to anyone, just sort of summon the ones he wanted near him. He was a super weird dude.

I had a friend who was a music video producer who worked with Prince on one of his videos. My friend would say that everyone had to call Prince "Boss" and he would never directly talk to anyone. He would always say to his bodyguard "Tell so-and-so blah blah" even if he was standing right in front of you and then you had to talk back to the bodyguard, "Tell Boss blah blah" and the bodyguard would just relay these messages back and forth between two people standing right next to each other. Ha.

Man, the 80s and 90s were such an awesome time to grow up in Minneapolis, the music scene was lit.

R78 as a big fan of His Purpleness, I can say I’m not at all surprised by that report.

He seemed like a very lonely person in life.

Prince had an abusive father and a neglectful mother. That dynamic makes narcissists. Prince was driven and ambitious because he had a deep insecurity and emptiness. He wanted to be loved. Yes he projected alpha male confidence and coolness but in some of his songs he opened up about her identity issues and spiritual interests. Prince was molested by an older women who was his dad's girlfriend and probably the source of his erotic fixations.

Autogynephilia —the michfest refugee’s favorite catch-all putdown!

The way I heard it, Prince was bi but became homophobic after he "got religion" and became a Jehovah's Witness (that's when he turned against Wendy & Lisa). He also caught HIV during his period of sexual indulgence but was doing well on the cocktail of anti-HIV meds. After his JW conversion he was persuaded that, since he was now "saved", he wouldn't need those meds anymore because the Lord would purge all wickedness from his body and magically cure him of his illness. As a result of this delusion, his HIV infection eventually developed into full-blown AIDS and Prince soon had a dependency on heavy meds to deal with the symptoms. He survived a couple of serious overdoses prior to the one that took his life.

Yet another casualty of fucked-up christianity.

That was the tabloid angle at the time of his death. I've never heard that confirmed since.

Autogynephilia is only a "put down" if you are an autogynephile who knows they are an autogynephile but desperately wants to be seen as something else.

Otherwise it's just a word, or at worst, a misidentification.

R83 the tabloid angle has a level of truth to it. You sound like you are in denial

I'm not denying it. I'm saying that the truth usually outs as the years go by and it's interesting that this angle has completely died.

The official story I heard about Prince’s death was that he developed complications from pain meds he was taking to cope with back problems sustained from dancing and strutting in high heeled boots all the time for decades.

R86 most fans don't want to think of their icon been a hiv infected bisexual drug addict. They want that image of him as this latharo who wooed women and died of circumstances beyond his control. It is a fantasy version that some even apply to mj eventhough their drug use was of their own doing.

R87 "official story" from his team to squash any strong rumors of heavy drug use due to other health issues.

He took Sheena Easton out on a date one night while in LA. His limo driver informed her that Prince was going to only communicate with her telepathically during the date. Sheena said “no fucking way” and got out of the limo and walked back into the house.

Sheena wasn’t like Vanity or Apples. She was successful and had money prior to meeting mr purple.

OP sounds like a paranoid African American Woman

He made Sheena sing a song about her vagina, "Sugar Walls". She got a hit out of it but I'm certain she was not thrilled.

Sheena was nothing if not ambitious. I'd say she was delighted to escape her cheesy "Morning Train" beginnings.

The artistic relationship between Prince and Sheena is an interesting one that for some reason doesn't get nearly as much attention as his puppetry of Vanity and Apples. It's especially strange because she was one of the most successful of his proteges.

She wasn't a protege, though. She was an established act. Only two of their collabs made any noise.

She was probably at the end of phase one or her career and her Prince reinvention gave her a phase 2.

"Strut" has already put her on Phase 2. "Sugar Walls" added to it.

Who knew Sheen Easton apologists existed.

Sheena Easton wasn't interesting enough for anyone to apologise for her.

Her Fabulous album was pure cynicism

Her standards album wasn't much cop either. I'd rather Patrice Rushen had done the vocals too.

R101 then buy Patrice and shut the fuck up.

If you bought the Sheena album then you did buy Patrice... Rushen did the arrangements.

R103 DUH IM FUCKING STUPID.

I stole Sheena Easton's career. LMAO.

And whole stole it from you five minutes later, Tay?

Four inches up that ass was as pink as a titty and he'd squeal like a schoolgirl touching a lizard.

So to speak.

But he was all-man. And fine but so detached and secretly worrying.

[quote] Four inches up that ass was as pink as a titty

Pink? Shouldn’t that be brown?

Sheena looked good in peach and black.

And Prince was a transvestite pervert; aka an autogynephile jacking off in suspenders and a teddy and fantasising about being a whoreish woman.

Prince's "Camille" songs are some of my favorites of his.

‘Power Fantastic’ is Prince’s most beautiful song about female sexuality (masturbation, to be precise)—maybe his most beautiful song period. The heavenly flute line on this cut, composed and played by masterful Eric Leeds, changed my life musically.

That said, this thread now has me looking at the lyrics in a less favourable light. Why do you bitches have to ask these questions?

I don't think Prince's possible autogynephilic tendencies should make anyone like his music less.

Autogynephilia is only something worth complaining about when it results in dangerous entitlement to other people's spaces or bodies.

[quote] Autogynephilia is only something worth complaining about when it results in dangerous entitlement to other people's spaces or bodies.

R112 ymmv, but from a female perspective it’s creepy and insulting and a huge red flag no matter what. We’re taught to be wary of this fetish for good reasons.

Drag or dress-up in a general mixed public sphere is one thing; AGP in domestic or female spaces is quite another.

His possible AGP resulted in some incredibly exciting art. I thought his most transparent and well known example of an AGP fantasy, Vanity 6's Nasty Girl, was a piece of pop genius.

That art can't be placed in the same category as an obnoxious and entitled AGP male aggressively demanding to be accepted as a lesbian.

Prince's music was always seen as kinky and perverted. His warped interest in masquerading as sexually aggressive women through his proxy acts was something that made him novel and interesting. This at a time when Michael Jackson was pretending to want to fuck Brooke Shields and Siedah Garrett. One was perverted but authentic. The other was a bullshit artist.

R111 I love that song, especially Lisa’s piano!

Authentic? Didn't Prince become a Jehovah's Witness?

R115 Honey NOBODY,not even black people,ever bought Micheals "Im hetero" act for one second. But they bought Prince's bi vibes totally. Men wanted to fuck him,women wanted to fuck him ,everybody in between wanted to fuck him. He knew that and played to it.

Were straight men attracted to Prince? If so why?

Some of y'all pretend Prince was bigger than he was. He was more a curio than a sex symbol.

Prince didn't give a shit if people thought he was gay/bi. I highly doubt he was ever gay or trans.

Some straight guys get really into crossdressing on occasion. I'm a gay guy, I don't get it, but so be it.

I'm friends with many of his colleagues and some siblings on FB. Jill Jones went ballistic when Boy George joked about sleeping with him.

What's with this troll trying to belittle Prince with this autogynephile bullshit? He never claimed to be a woman. He was completely comfortable in his masculinity. So what he wrote songs that broke gender barriers and wore high heels and make-up? That doesn't mean shit because he's not the first or last to do it. Maybe he had a crossdressing kink? Again, big deal, some straight men do. As long as no kids or animals or deaths involved who cares?

What's up with these puritan grandmas posting on here? Why are they complaining about straight men on a gay and lesbian forum?

R118 I'm black and I noticed MJ's biggest defenders are white women. They buy into the whole he turned white due to vitiligo, he was in love with Lisa Marie, he had no childhood this he hanged out with boys to relive it and his three kids are his biological. Black comedians were mocking MJ since the 80s.

r122 the gay agenda was hijacked by heteros decades ago.

so, they're obsessed with it and sought to codify their homophobia and homophobic stereotypes as "pride" - just as most of gay history is ignored and the myth of the greater importance of stonewall (outside of NY), which only got popularized because it was symbolic of the communist workers' struggle (when political sphere had embraced it and the trust fund baby fantasies of a violent revolution that would lead to destroying the western imperialism and the capitalist state) and has since been bastardized with soviet era disinfo tactics of who led the charge. . . that only served to create conflict in the community.

they've always got gayface wrong too. It's never some dude with cock sucking lips and mouth big enough you can shove your first into (to which, yes, mick jagger has probably sucked a dick but all the pursed clit anteater licking lips like Prince.. there ain't gonna be no deepthroating with that.

Never mind, the not so subtle racism when they call virtually every popular black male singer back in the day gay because he had a falsetto... so, miss a black man did it just assumes he's a slave cucked eunuch despite all the songs about pussy because they the openness and power of the very black sexuality they fetishize, the same as they do with homosexual men... which they seek to emasculate despite a longer history of inverted hypermasculinity and the str8 guys dressing in party frocks.

and you know these are the same bitches that thought Liberace just didn't meet the right girl yet...

seriously, think of every white pussy magnet celebrity or performer pre-aids paranoia 80s. . . and who they thought was straight vs who they thought was gay. They can't respect everyday homos... just as they're uncomfortable with straight men that are secure with their masculinity.

so anyone that breaks their perception is just another faggot if they don't constantly cater to their insecurities, fishing for compliments and grossly simplistic interpretations of the world.

R121 and r122. Go back to LSA with your nonsense. I guess you are too embarrassed to include the mj was also straight but liked to speak and act feminine because he was secure in his masculinity. The delusion is thick with you.

On LSA, they like to talk about how Diana Ross broke his heart...Oh, and he and Stephanie Mills were sweethearts too.

Do straight men catch HIV?

'Cause Prince did.

I thought he was a prophylactic (?).

Was Morris Day straight or gay?

R129

“The King has arrived...😏” “Guess who the Queen is.”

OP you mean, was he into drag?

No. Drag does not equal autogynephilia. AGP is a straight male sexual fetish not an artistic choice like drag.

What happened to Morris? He had a lot of charisma.

He bombed after Prince cut him loose. He was a character but didn’t really have talent.

Well, this is rather... Time..ly

Day looks nightmarish.

Prince wold not want this legal nonsense.

Really? Didn't they have to record under a different name post Prince? Something like "The Original 7even," as I recall.

The Artist Formerly Known As Morris Day and The Time sounds good.

Parsley Park presents Morris Day and the Thyme.

Prince is dead and now on the non-physical plane so she wouldn't care about money.

She?

When you're non physical you can switch between genders at will.

Prince was a man who liked pussy. He was a basketball player and had a competitive streak. The hair, makeup, heels and eyeliner came from the campy funk and disco aesthetic. Aristocrats and dandies of earlier generations sported this. Really what was feminine about him? Flamboyance is a male trait. Like lions and peacocks who strut around and put themselves in danger impressing the females.

He was showin off his ass like he was thinkin it's a trend. Gurlfriend...

His fucking hairy ass.

Hairy ass? His ass looked completely hairless.

I want some PERFECTION!

I don't remember Morris being that outrageously camp.

And anyone who thinks Prince didn't have a hairy ass is delusional.

Were Prince and Morris lovers?

Morris doesn't seem like Prince's type.

R150 what did you think.

Prince was involved with Susan Moonsie, Vanity, Apollonia Kotero, Carmen Electra, Manuela Testolini, Nona Gaye and Mayte Garcia. So he liked light-skinned or Latina girls with big eyes who looked like him.

R153 the case is mounting to say that PRN was a narcissist.

R154 A lot of people are attracted to those who remind them of their mothers or themselves. I wouldn't say narcissism in regards to that. People are drawn to similarities. Now I would say his narcissism manifested in how controlling he was of them and everyone around him. Total Napoleon complex.

The thing that throws off my gaydar is I have a friend who looks and acts exactly like prince “out of drag”. Just normal prince when he’s relaxed.

but he’s a gay male.

So to me, Prince reads gay. All the women and vagina talk is what’s so confusing.

Prince wasn't involved with Apples. She was married at the time (secretly) and the romance talk was a publicity stunt.

R157 they didn’t have any chemistry imo, not even in PURPLE RAIN.

The PR scene (I can’t find a clip rn) where he has an argument with her on the bridge and he flounces away makes him look so gay.

His lack of interest in her magnificent tits made him look gay.

Prince was a homophobe.

He was linked to bunch of women who said nothing happened. Suzanna Hoffs for one.

Carmen Electra said he was shit in bed.

Kylie Minogue used to worship him until she visited Paisley Park to work on material. Their collaboration, "Baby Doll" was never released. She stopped raving about him after that visit, where they played Ping Pong. When asked if they fucked, she said, very uncharacteristically, "Who would want to be on that list?" Something clearly happened that wasn't to her taste.

Oh no, the Autogynephilia loon has escaped the mental institution once again...

The only people who think autogynephilia is a lie are autogynephiliacs, whose kink is literally dependent on denying it's real.

^^^^^

Sure jan

You typed "sure Jan" while dressed up as a slutty anime catgirl, and tossing off onto your suspenders.

Radtroll, if I were dressed as that it would still be NONE OF YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS.

We live in the 21st century, how other humans dress is not up to you to decide or care,frankly.

Thanks for confirming that's exactly what you are.

[quote] The only people who think autogynephilia is a lie are autogynephiliacs, whose kink is literally dependent on denying it's real.

I don’t think it’s a lie, but I do not think Prince was one.

Prince been an heterosexual is laughable. This is the guy that wore cut out pants that showed his bare ass and stimulated moves on stage with men.

Not saying he didn’t, but what kind of moves did he simulate with men on stage?

R171, his dancers would simulate fucking him on stage. I’ll look for one of the performances. I recall it from a talk show (Arsenio Hall?).

Was Prince considered a spinner?

[quote]his dancers would simulate fucking him on stage. I’ll look for one of the performances. I recall it from a talk show (Arsenio Hall?).

His dancers sort of dogpile him at the beginning of his 1991 VMA performance of Gett Off, and there's some choreo in Daddy Pop from the Arsenio Hall show, where he's humping the floor, but is sort of in between the legs of one of his dancers. I wouldn't call either of them a fuck simulation. A bit homoerotic at best.

He had a lot of self-loathing issues.

And you don’t r175???

R176, go...you know...F yourself.

What guys what’s he tied to over the years? Perhaps and assistant? If he was gay wouldn’t there be some exes? Or at least some male tricks?

[...]

Was he white, biracial or mixed race?

[...]

Comments that women don't act or think like sluts and want or enjoy sex are you boys channeling your maiden aunt's from the 1950s.

Granted, it is much more often the subject of straight male fantasy and pretty much what straight pr0n is about. But that's just because women that act that way openly are taboo in most societies.

Seriously, "Nasty Girl" is completely atypical of female sexuality at the time, even for Vanity herself, who despite her extreme drug use was not a Messalina-style whore.

That song is entirely typical of straight male porn fantasies, and is very AGP when you consider how and why Prince used Vanity. She was his double, his AGP avatar.

Basic straight males fantasize about slutty women every 5 minutes.

Why so weird that a male artist would write songs from that perspective?

If anything, it may prove more strongly that Prince was hetero. Not that he needs to be proven anything.

Was Flaubert an autogynophile for writing Madame Bovary, delving into an aldulterous woman's psychology and behavior?

Being ambiguous and many things was Prince's appeal. No one would be surprised by anything he did with anyone, unless it was coercive and abusive. And no one truly cares--his art was all the legacy needed.

Plus I want to know how R183 knows what "typical female sexuality" is of that time or any.

There have always been women who were slutty or went through phases of feeling slutty.

We're just taught to shut up about it and hide it, and that assholes will use it as an excuse to rape and abuse us so it's better to keep the beast caged.

Why would you assume you had any better understanding of "typical" sexuality than any other individual? You know full well those lyrics came from kinky male lust and not the yearnings of a generation of repressed whores secretly aching to be ravaged by a stranger on a filthy limo floor.

Many women fantasize about being taken.

That you deny this tells me you likely aren't one.

So write a similarly explicit song about being "taken".

But you won't ever do that, will you?

I didn't say a woman wrote it. And due to socialization, most women won't write it or possibly even admit to it unless speaking privately with their girlfriends.

Writing it still proves zip about Prince's, nor anyone else's sexuality.

Story of O was really written by a man. A perverted man.

R181 Wrong, he was Black, not mixed. However, he pretended to be mixed for years. He had serious self-hate issues with both his race and sexuality.

[...]

Oh dear. I'm on the wrong thread.

I thought you were all talking about my late husband Philip.

I grew up in Minneapolis, got to hang out at Paisley Park, and with some of the insiders throughout the years, and there was never even any kind of/sort of stories, or even hinting about Prince being gay or bi. If he did have any experiences, nobody talked or even whispered about it. All of the inside info was about what a whore he was with women, and how he was able to juggle so many at the same time (many times they even shared the stage together with him), all while recording a staggering amount of music and performing an endless amount of shows. He must have had Hermione's time-turner or something to make time for it/them all.

[quote]He was a self loathing closeted bisexual because of being slave to Jehovah's Witness theology.

False. He became ensnared by the JW cult after he lost his infant son, and then another child via miscarriage. Larry Graham, bassist for Sly and the Family Stone, who was a childhood hero of his, swooped in during this difficult period, and somehow took control of his life in many ways, leading him toward the JW way of life, and driving away his wife at the time, who was not interested in it. Another example of a cult leader preying on someone when they're vulnerable. This particular leader had the advantage of being a hero to Prince.

And Prince being Prince went all the way with it, changing lyrics to explicit songs, or refusing to perform them at all, completely renouncing his licentious past, refusing to date/marry women who were not of the JW faith, or who would not convert for him, and even stopped swearing, fining those around him who swore.

His ex-wife revealed in her auto-biography that she felt Prince couldn't get over making the decision to take their dying child off of life-support, and being there when he died. It fucked him up, and he was never the same.

Denise Matthew on Vanity:

"Prince created the whole Vanity Six image. It bothered me at the time. I lied and said it was the image I wanted. I did it because he told me I had to do it. If I didn’t do it, I wouldn’t get paid. I got into it."

"Prince later invited Denise to front a girl group he had formed called the Hookers. Prince initially wanted to name her 'Vagina,' but she refused so they settled on Vanity, as he considered her to be the female form of himself. The group was renamed Vanity 6. The group recorded one album, and had some success internationally with the single 'Nasty Girl'. They wore lingerie and Vanity's image became that of an erotic and sexy 'nasty girl'.'

Why no mention of Sheila E. one of his all time favourite acts? If anyone can tell you about Prince she definitely could. She was his ultimate protege.

"However, he pretended to be mixed for years."

Not true, but there are lots of lies and misinformation about this guy.

R82 is correct.

R84 is the kind of person who must italicize "put down."

One for each:

Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

But no comment on her foolishness otherwise.

R125, this is R121 here and I can assure you I am not a LSA member. I'm a middle aged gay white guy that's been on this site since the 90's. I just happened to be a lifelong Prince fan and a very active member of Prince dot org.

Prince was like a Wodaabe tribesman. Flamboyancy and colorful aesthetics has always been a part of Afro-American culture, from zoot suits, cakewalk dance, conked hair, Players Ball outfits, dashikis, fiery church sermons, etc.

Prince was heavily inspired by flamboyant gay man Little Richard.

Bootsy Collins

R194 and r195 arguing with you will be like arguing with mj lunatic fans. You are no different. You guys are so indenial. Even as a black female I have never thought of prince as straight. I stand by my early comment that he was a closeted bisexual.

Sheila E was not sexualised like his other proteges.

She was first and foremost a musician.

Was Rosie Gaines sexualized?

Yes. He modelled her as "a black Mae West".

This is sexualzed? C'mon now...

No that's a transvestite and a woman dressed as Nellie from Little House on the Prairie.

Yknow I think Prince loved and respected Rosie best of all the women he worked with. By all accounts, she wouldn’t put up with his shit, but he didn’t give her much either.

He never followed through with an album for her.

R206 I'm not a part of any lunatic fringe here lol, I just know what I'm talking about. I can certainly see how the average person would think Prince was gay or bi from looking at him. In many ways, he was quite obviously fem-presenting. However, he was a straight man, though clearly not a typical one. But if you need him to be bi or gay for your world to make sense, then by all means keep believing it.

R214. Prince was not straight and it is sad that you think you *know* that he was. R82 is the closest to the truth...

[quote]Prince was not straight and it is sad that you think you *know* that he was. [R82] is the closest to the truth...

If you say so, Bossip.

This thing was the quintessential nonbinary FEM. Wrote some damn good songs though. He was a weirdo Jehovah's witness so he could never live his truth and therefore coped with drugs. He was not handsome either with that dry relaxed hair and I'm sick of people saying he was and that he just couldn't get enough pussy. Bitch please. He chose all those girls because he wanted to be them. That's why there is a similarity.

“Autogynephilia” as a term has been taken over by trans deniers and right wingers. As a theory, people don’t understand that there isn’t research to back it up. You can enjoy drag without wanting to be a woman. If it happens at all (which I am dubious about with no research support), it’s inordinately rare.

Wendy and Lisa described Prince as a “prissy lesbian” whatever that means. They were asked about his LGBT stance several times after he died because of his JW religion. They hinted that he changed his stance after becoming religious which they found confusing because he knew the two of them were gay when he had them join his band and he was fine with playing up their ambiguous gayness at the time. They saw his shift as unfortunate.

[...]

[quote{ Thousands of years of MONOTHEISTIC ABRAHAMIC CULTIST religion has created untold psychological damage amongst most of the population.

FIFY 💓

WTF is a "trans denier"?

With the large number of men openly admitting they experience autogyephilia, many of them openly on YouTube, no it is not "inordinately rare".

Why do people tell obvious lies like this? The only reasonable answer is because some people find recognition of this disorder very threatening to their assumptions and sometimes to their identities.

This video "never happens".

Read all the comments under this video from men saying they are AGP. But yes, "it's not real / it hardly ever happens / it's inordinately rare." Take any bullshit line you want that upholds your untenable world view.

Why is AGP on the steep incline, is what I want to know. Is it all down to pron? Or is it just a salty bitter jealous petty little runback reaction to the gains of feminism?

OK but Prince was not an autogynephile. Especially given how he spent most of the 70s prior to Dirty Mind and the 90s onward dressing like a flamboyant male. He only seemed to do the drag and androgynous stuff in the 80s and it was already popular with many New Wave acts. He got more conservative in dressing style as he aged though still he retained his eyeliner and high heels (but many men especially rock stars wear eyeliner and heels).

According to a documentary about him, he started taking the opioids that killed him because of chronic and severe pain from years of wearing high heels and his acrobatics during performances.

R207 He sexualized Sheila E. too, don't worry.

R222 I’m concerned that you consider anecdotal Youtube comments and videos as being a large representative group in society. Here’s a decent review of the theory and research.

I'm concerned that you cite a journal from a notoriously ideologized and widely ridiculed pseudoscience like Sociology, which contains the following farcical statement: "I will also demonstrate how autogynephilia theory relies on essentialist, heteronormative, and male-centric presumptions about women and LGBTQ+people, and as such, it is inconsistent with basic tenets of feminism."

You can take something like seriously and actually cite it? What the hell is wrong with you?

It's embarrassing how Prince's grand musical legacy is being reduced to a discussion over what the man wore. Maybe he felt like a women at times and was gender fluid. Big deal. Retrospective diagnosis of autogenyphilia with no substantial evidence? No song lyrics don't count. And many men dressed in drag as it's a performance art. Fuck outta here with this. Prince was not Caitlyn Jenner. Prince actually had sense and while deeply flawed, he always did what was right with his multiple charity donations, socially conscious lyrics and support of lesser known artists.

R230 Says the genius citing YouTube and claiming it as fact vs. a peer-reviewed journal. But you’re so smart, go you!

After he died, cops found some gender bending type porn on his laptop.....

R233 you know it’s really hard to imagine Prince using a laptop recreationally. I’m not saying he didn’t, just that it’s a weird image. Seems so banal for him to be doing.

Prince appeared to hate the internet. He blamed it for ruining the music industry by taking sales away from physical releases and enabling piracy. He had a point though, the temptation of downloading for instant gratification and no real cost put a huge dent in the industry and hurt many artists. He refused to put his music on mainstream streaming services that weren't properly compensating artists. I know he put a lot of his stuff on Tidal but for years, it was impossible to even find any of Prince's songs or music videos on YouTube. It seriously hurt his popularity in the 2000s and 2010s because younger people had no way of accessing his music.

R207 you are a blind person

I do wonder sometimes if Prince was on the autism spectrum. His monotone voice, obsessive-compulsiveness, vacant stare, inability to relate to others, his bluntness and rudeness, introversion, fixation of the color purple and symbols and ability to hyper-focus on music. Just look at how many albums he made yearly and he was told to limit his release schedule to once a year. He probably would have released a dozen a year if he could have.

If you're evaluating the validity of autogynbephilia as a condition, why would whether it's "inconsistent with basic tenets of feminism" even come into the discussion? Is cancer or gout inconsistent with the tenets of feminism? This is why Sociology and its so called "peer reviewed journals" have become a laughing stock.

R212, she spilled some tea on him afterwards. He barely paid her shit.

Standard hetero stuff... right?

R238 still waiting for you to produce something better than YouTube videos while you criticize a review that summarizes the research on the topic and cites many studies. You haven’t a leg to stand on.

Multiple men, on the record: "I live with autogynehilia, and it is what drives my transgender urges"

Sociology journal: "This condition is ideologically objectionable and offensive from an intersectional feminist stand point, so it's not real."

Just for clarification, when is "LiVeD eXpErIeNce" no longer untouchable evidence? When it upsets someone else's feelings or undermines an ideological viewpoint?

AGP isn’t a psych disorder any more than p@ed0ph!lia is. It’s all just creepy entitled predatory men abusing their position of societal power to make mock of those whom they deem their playthings, end of.

He was gay as a goose.

I don't believe that. Just a fetishistic hetero.

^^ You're both wrong - He was Bi

Yes. Sociology literature is very easy to hoax. What does that tell you?

Why on EARTH would you cite a Sociology journal when discussing a psychological condition? It's like getting an astrologer to talk about astronomy.

Oh my god. Why can't we just enjoy his fucking music? I agree that most trannies these days are OTT, but my god the obsession with autogynephilia is just as freakish!!!

I don't think so. He was just an artist having fun with gender bending, costume, an character.

Whether he was gay or not is entirely different question (which OP didn't bring up, but posters alluded to). I don't know. I can DEFINITELY believe it and would have no problem with it. Flip side, it's unfortunate when ANYTHING outside the mainstream presentation male-ness has to lead accusations of being gay. Now that I think about it, why I would believe he was gay would have nothing to do with his outfits, other personalities, etc. It was more the his actual relationships (or presented relationships) or lack thereof, with women. "Prince is gay" has been a thing since he was young. But, unlike most celebs who get questions about their sexuality, I've never heard of specific guys he was lovers with or supposedly fucking - not that that means it couldn't be true.

Maybe he was just bi. I don't know and I don't really care. He gave me music for a lifetime.

I can believe autism for sure, and AGP is strongly linked to that.

What r255 said.

He was as gay as Bradley Cooper.