Linda Darnell's Forever Amber

I haven’t seen this movie but didn’t she die horribly in a fire?

Yes, she died in a fire with over 90% of her body in third-degree burns. Ironically enough, her character Amber nearly dies in the Great Fire of London. She is also burnt at the stake in Anna and the King of Siam.

Strange how life reflects art.

I can think of numerous stories.

I remember reading that she thought this movie would make her an international star like Vivien Leigh.

Linda went blond and lost weight for this much sought after role but hated working with director Otto Preminger.

[quote] Linda went blond and lost weight for this much sought after role but hated working with director Otto Preminger.

Was her hair blonde or was it supposed to be amber-colored? It looks positively red in some scenes.

I thought Darnell was superb in A Letter to Three Wives. Not many other roles served her talents well.

She was also great in Fallen Angel. It was widely expected she would earn Oscar nominations for Fallen Angel and A Letter to Three Wives but she was snubbed both times.

The book followed the path of what we know in hindsight as a 40s-50s-60s classic "dirty book" bestseller. The film just turned out to be another adaptation off the assembly line, though production was beset by problems. It was smaller than Gone With the Wind and not as prestigious in the casting. That the public didn't take to it is clear in the box office pattern: it opened huge but didn't have staying power. In the end, it didn't even make back its budget at the box office.

They should do a remake of Forever Amber. Without reducing her list of lovers from 30 to 5 and without removing her abortions.

I never leave home without Linda Darnell's Forever Amber.

I liked her in the sympathetic part in “blood and sand” and also “the mark of zorro”. She was in a number of good films

[quote] I liked her in the sympathetic part in “blood and sand” and also “the mark of zorro”. She was in a number of good films

No Way Out was the only good picture I ever made,

Her real name was Monetta. Fox changed it to "Linda" to make her come across as more exotic to match her dark looks. Ironically enough now Linda would be considered as basic a name as you can get whereas Monetta would be considered exotic.

Oh, won't these lights ever change!

R12 She was great whenever she was matched with Tyrone Power. I still can't believe he cheats on her in Blood and Sand, not even with Rita Hayworth in the picture.

I think the problem was that she kept playing those same good girl type roles in movies afterwards that weren't so great and didn't have Tyrone to balance out.

I think the real issue with the movie was Cornel Wilde. He was so miscast. He looked like he didn't want to be there and I can't see why Linda Darnell's Amber would be at all interested in him after all those years.

[quote]No Way Out was the only good picture I ever made,

Bathrobes by TRAVILLA

Richard Haydn had a good old time camping it up

Richard Greene was a lot more handsome and compelling than Cornel Wilde. I kept thinking Amber should have ended up with his character.

R20, I agree

Gene Tierney was considered for the role of Amber, but she thought the script was too vulgar.

Free on Youtube.

Millions and millions of American baby girls were named Linda in the 1940s and 1950s because of her.

As common as the name may seem now, Linda Darnell was the first Linda. For those who don't know, "linda" is Spanish for "pretty."

Peggy Cummins (from Gun Crazy) was originally cast as Amber before being replaced by Linda

I'd always thought FOREVER AMBER was Darnell's first important film, that she was mostly unknown until then and was "discovered" after a search to find a new actress a la Vivien Leigh as Scarlett. But I see now it was made in 1947, 7 years after her Hollywood career began.

If you're a Forever Amber fan, you might be interested in this book

She was truly brilliant in A Letter to 3 Wives, really the best thing in it (except for the unbilled Thelma Ritter) but I wonder if back then (1949) her character was just a bit too tough and crudely comical to be palatable to some audiences, at least the conservative audiences. Especially if they'd been accustomed to seeing her as more of a traditional leading lady.

[quote] I'd always thought FOREVER AMBER was Darnell's first important film, that she was mostly unknown until then and was "discovered" after a search to find a new actress a la Vivien Leigh as Scarlett. But I see now it was made in 1947, 7 years after her Hollywood career began.

According to the documentary on her (Hollywood's Fallen Angel) she was a pretty big star from her debut. She was wildly popular with audiences and already had a Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame within 2 years of her debut. She was overwhelmed with all the fame at the beginning.

I think Lana Turner was also up for the part. I don't remember why she didn't get it though. I think MGM refused to loan her out or something.

yes the wiki page says Otto wanted Lana but Zanuck insisted he use Linda.

Did the movie win anything for costumes? The costumes were spectacular in this movie. The white ball dress, the white and gold wedding dress, the golden jeweled dress from the end, and the white and red dress with the red cherry hat are just a few favorites.

[quote] Yes, she died in a fire with over 90% of her body in third-degree burns. Ironically enough, her character Amber nearly dies in the Great Fire of London. She is also burnt at the stake in Anna and the King of Siam.

And in Hangover Square, she's strangled and her body is disposed off on a burning pyre. It's so weird that fire seemed to frequently be present in her movies.

The movie started shooting with Peggy Cummins but she was fired after a few weeks and replaced with Darnell.

It had the potential of being another GWTW except that the book's raciness had to be removed in 1947, and that was the whole point of the book. Amber was a relentless slut in the novel but the Legion of Decency would have none of it. The movie is amazingly tame but it made so much money nobody cared. It's also relatively unimpressive except for Darnell's being absolutely gorge.

R4 She must have been rather stupid.

I did Forever Rambo back in Ninety-Eight.

Duuuh - Didn't I, Frank?

The Forever Amber costumes are actually pretty horrible if you know or care what the actual period clothes looked like. Of course, they weren't yet giving out Oscars for costume design (not until 1949, believe it or not) so no loss there, anyway.

'Cornel Wilde' sounds so fake.

Cornel Wilde was fake.

He was really Kornél Wise.

[quote]Linda Darnell was the first Linda.

Silent screen star Linda Arvidson, aka Mrs. D.W. Griffith.

Wiki says that Hungarian Kornél Wise had previously sold himself as 'Clark Wales'.

And after that he was marketing himself as 'Jefferson Pascal'. I guess Paszkál is the Hungarian version.

He had more names than our porn stars.

[quote] "Yes, she died in a fire with over 90% of her body in third-degree burns."

Yes, the Wikipedia article did mention she'd been cremated, R2.

Was Cornel Wilde really a huge star in the 40s? Wiki says he was forced to do this movie by Fox because he was their biggest actor at the time. I have never gotten his appeal. In both Leave Her to Heaven and Forever Amber, you think the heroine is better off with literally anybody else except for this schmuck.

R37 you can literally say that about every Hollywood movie set in an earlier period, including Gone with the Wind. Contemporary audiences don't want accuracy, they want eye candy.

[quote]Yes, she died in a fire with over 90% of her body in third-degree burns.

Darnell died in Cook County Hospital the day after the fire.

[quote] Darnell died in Cook County Hospital the day after the fire.

Her daughter said Linda didn't realize the extent of her injuries and she was convinced she was going to live.

I’m a big Otto Preminger fan, and despite Otto’s own disparaging remarks, I consider FA one of his masterpieces, and certainly his first color masterpiece. Miss Darnell (who made a huge number of significant movies with a very classy list of directors) plays Amber sympathetically and Mr. Wilde, whose character could be desribed as an aristocratic heel, is quite convincingly narcissistic, avoiding like the plague (grim joke,as the Great Plague plays a big role in this film) any romantic commitment to Amber, who is madly in love with him. Wilde always looked marvelous, with his very athletic physique, and he does here, despite a fairly unflattering Prince Valiant coiif. Supporting players George Sanders (as Charles II, spaniels and all), Richard Greene, Richard Haydn, and Jessica Tandy provide sterling support, not to forget Edith Evanson (Rope, Marniej, as, of all things, Amber’s mother! Finally,the David Raksin faux 17th century orchestral score is very beautiful and, as movie scores must do, helps keep things moving. FA, to put it simply, is a very entertaining film with a glittering surface if precious little depth—which, given its literary source, was to be expected.

Wait. Wasnt she the one in Anna and the king of Siam?

She was also wonderful as the wife in “unfaithfully yours”. She did star in a number of classics. R45 that’s heartbreaking.

I think all the drama on this fake-looking movie happened behind the cameras.

1. Peggy Cummins might have added some authenticity to this mess. She was a genuine young English girl playing a young English girl.

2. The first director was also sacked—Jacob Strelitsky who worked under the name John M. Stahl whom Google tells us was homosexual.

3. Another English performer, Margot Grahame, was cut out of the movie, as was Vincent Price.

4. I wonder what else was happening on set because think Kornél Wise/Cornel Wilde and Linda Darnell both look very bored.

R48 Besides Forever Amber and Unfaithfully Yours, she also has A Letter to Three Wives, Fallen Angel, No Way Out, The Mark of Zorro, Blood and Sand, Anna and the King of Siam, My Darling Clementine, Hangover Square, and Zero Hour! (the movie that Airplane! is a parody of)

She has a cameo in The Song of Bernadette playing the Virgin Mary (this was before she branched out to playing a sex siren on screen in Summer Storm with George Sanders). She also starred with Tab Hunter in Island of Desire which is all about a couple shipwrecked on a beach.

R47 She plays Tuptim, the role Rita Moreno played later on in the 1956 musical version. And even that role was supposed to be played by Dorothy Dandridge but Otto Preminger told her to turn it down and only play leading roles.

[quote] [R45] that’s heartbreaking.

It is, but I guess I'm glad that she didn't realize how badly she was hurt so she didn't have to pass away in unendurable pain and fear. What's especially tragic though is that she had been going through a career low, but shortly before the fire, she had been set to go back on screen and was getting movie offers again. She could have had a comeback had it not been for her premature death.

[quote] Peggy Cummins might have added some authenticity to this mess. She was a genuine young English girl playing a young English girl.

I mean Vivien Leigh didn't have to be a genuine southern belle to play Scarlett. I heard Peggy lacked talent and maturity to play the role, particularly Amber later on in the film when she's more conniving and coquettish.

As for Vincent Price, he was cast in the movie originally in the Richard Greene role but had to leave because production was stalled for so long.

Linda was close to making a 5th movie with Tyrone Power in his Captain from Castile. But because of Forever Amber, Linda couldn't work on both movies. I wish she could have done it as well though so we could see Linda and Tyrone in one final movie together, especially since she had outgrown her good girl persona by then.

R54 I saw captain from Castile and I think the female role was nothing special. I think when Susan Hayward joined fox, a lot of roles that would have gone to Linda suddenly went to Hayward.

R55 I know Joseph Mankiewicz promised The Barefoot Contessa to Linda back when they were a couple. She found out from the grapevine that he cast Ava Gardner instead. I think that was the end of their relationship and also when she basically left Hollywood because of how humiliated she was.

Here is Linda's Biography episode. Thank you YouTube.

Because although GWTW isn't ANNA KARENINA, it's still a much better book than FA and the films trifle that

FA is just a bodice ripper.

GWTW is considerably more than that.

And Darnell was no Vivien Leigh.

Oh, and don't forget Clark Gable, Olivia De H. and the rest of the cast, the score, the groundbreaking cinematography. . .

In fact, that you even asked the question suggests to me that you watch The Flintstones with breakfast.

[quote] And Darnell was no Vivien Leigh

Darnell has the thespian abilities of a well-carved statue. And her grumpy leading man was an uncarved lump of wood.

The thousand dress-makers and milliners were given more screen time than the puny drama.

I heard they tried to cast Vivien Leigh at first.

R59 Linda got rave reviews when she turned to the stage later on.

Linda had an odd beauty - she was rather bovine and tended to appear heavy. Maybe it was a Texan thing. She was gal pals with fellow Texan Ann Miller.

You people are all conveniently forgetting that Vivien got more bad reviews on stage than she did good ones.

R62 They both started off in the movies underage. Of course, Linda was the leading lady whereas Ann only had supporting roles.

R53

[quote] I heard…

R60

[quote] I heard …

[quote] You people are all conveniently forgetting that Vivien got more bad reviews on stage than she did good ones.

Maybe. But 'Forever Amber' is a ponderous mess with lousy actors presided over by that heavy-handed thug named Otto Preminger.

In the 40s, she was set to star in an early version of “original sin” with Tyrone power which was later made first as the french film, “Mississippi mermaid” with Jean Paul belmondo and Catherine deneuve and then in Hollywood as “original sin” starring Angelina jolie and Antonio banderas.

I would have loved to have seen a version with Tyrone power and Linda Darnell, I think that could have been a classic and given her a chance to play against type as a femme fatale.

[quote]As common as the name may seem now, Linda Darnell was the first Linda. For those who don't know, "linda" is Spanish for "pretty."

Um, no.

In the form Linda it was used by the writer Jean Paul for a leading character in his four-volume novel Titan, published 1800–1803, and it became popular in German-speaking countries thereafter.

Linda would have been a better choice for Pinky than Jeanne Crain. Her dark coloring would have been more suited to play a black character.

Joan from the Two-Faced Woman song in Torch Song should have played Pinky.

R58, Clark Gable was just as out-of-place as a Southerner as Cornel Wilde was as an English gent

GWTW really isn't much more than a bodice ripper, either. And it romanticizes the Confederacy, too.

R67 I'm not surprised they didn't make the movie until the 60s. It probably would have been completely censored in the 40s.

Tyrone Power would have been a better choice over Cornel Wilde but the role was probably too small for him.

[quote] FA is just a bodice ripper.

Genius.

r39, nobody ever named a baby girl after Linda Arvidsen.

That episode of Biography is just brutally sad. Darnell started out so young, her career was virtually over before she turned 30 and then it was just downhill after that.

And no Americans named their baby girls Linda after a character in a 4 volume German tome written in 1800-03.

Get real. Linda Darnell popularized the name Linda in America and was the first celeb with that name that Americans knew and adored.

[quote] Linda Darnell popularized the name Linda in America

No! It was me!

I captured the most chic man in America!

Where is that marvelous clip of Linda Darnell's appearance as the Mystery Guest on What's My Line?

Another role she would have been a good fit for was Pearl in Duel in the Sun. Jennifer Jones even looks a little like Linda in the way she's styled there.

R80 Shoulda been called Lust in the Dust

[quote] As common as the name may seem now, Linda Darnell was the first Linda.

"Linda" Lavin was born in1937, years before Linda Darnell became a star.

Linda Lavin was not her real name, r82.

I think Linda's best performance was in this movie (which isn't widely seen)

He is Moone boy.

Linda Lavin was born Linda Lavin, 83. If you have a link to show otherwise, please post it.

R79 - here.

ooh those painted eyebrows are a bit much.

R87 She's got more charm and animation in that short clip than in the turgid, two hour long Forever Amber.

R84 thank you for posting that. I'll have to check that movie out.

Is Star Dust any good? I heard it was basically a biographical movie of how Linda became a star.

It's interesting that in 1947, there were two movies released that were intended to be the next Gone with the Wind: Forever Amber and Duel in the Sun. Neither movie seems well remembered today even though both were huge at the box office back then.

This is my love is from memory the kind of hogwash where a gorgeous actress plays someone who can't get a date.

R80 I think Rita Hayworth would also have been a good choice. The role was similar to what she played a year later in The Loves of Carmen, right down to the way they both spit.

R55 I have never understood how women found Mankiewicz sexually appealing. Didn't Judy try to commit suicide over him? I have no idea how he bagged her or Linda.

I just discoved this thread because of a Forever Amber alert on my phone.

I never understood the title. Is she named Amber because of her eyes or her hair?

Cornel Wilde always looked like a discount Dana Andrews to me.

[quote] Is she named Amber because of her eyes or her hair?

Her mother named her Amber “for the color of her father’s eyes.” Then she kicked the bucket.

R99 They should have kept a little more of her backstory in the movie. Like the old duke who she marries was originally supposed to be married off to her mother. Her mother ran away with Amber's father instead.

R100, I haven’t seen the film but I loved the book. No matter how much DL sneers at it!

R101 My three favorite literary heroines were always Scarlett O'Hara, Becky Sharp, and Amber St. Clare. Throw in Catherine Earnshaw as well for good measure.

I’m with you except for Wuthering Heights, I didn’t like a single character.

[quote] literary

That adjective doesn't apply to this bodice-ripper.

R103 What about the movie?

[quote] I haven’t seen the film

I tried to watch it last night on Youtube. It was a bad print of a bad movie and I fell asleep.

R106 It's on Amazon Prime as well. It's one of several movies where Olivier tried to get Vivien cast but failed. It's hilarious how many actresses he alienated from his tactics, including Joan Fontaine and Merle Oberon.

R107 It's funny how quickly he lost his love and devotion for Vivien only a few years later when she wanted to be cast in his Hamlet and he refused on the basis that she was too old.

R103 None of the characters, particularly Heathcliff and Cathy, are meant to be likable. That's part of why the book is so revolutionary.

R108 Everyone knows Vivien would be all wrong as Ophelia but she would have been fine as Katherine.

[quote]FA is just a bodice ripper.

It's also a note to follow so.

[quote]I just discoved this thread because of a Forever Amber alert on my phone.

DL has been sketchy af lately but sometimes a post like this pops up and reminds me that the old Datalounge still exists, even if just for a moment.

[quote]Linda Darnell was the first Linda

"Linda" originated as "Linde" in German and became popular thanks to a novel called [italic] Titan [/italic] written by Jean Paul in 1800.

Everyone who freaked out about this weird "she was the first Linda" crap should have just gone to Google for 8 seconds.

Monetta seems like the better star name.

I'd love to see a remake of this movie but knowing Hollywood, they'd recast Amber as black and make her speak all ghetto-like.

R115 Ugh perish the thought. I can just imagine Amber Riley being cast.

If Gone with the Wind is being cancelled, Hollywood should use this chance to promote Forever Amber as its unproblematic replacement.

R116, you ARE R115, and the OP as well. Have you been talking to yourself through this whole thread??

R118 this thread is not the place for your split-personality antics. Go to The Three Faces of Eve thread for that nonsense.

Wiki says fourteen US states banned the book as pornography in 1944.

It sold over 100,000 copies in its first week of release, and went on to sell over three million copies.

How do those figures compare to GWTW?

What on earth? R118 is right, OP is R115, he replied to himself at r116 while pretending to be someone else, and posted a lame defense at r119. He's half the replies on this thread and obviously doesn't know about ignore-dar.

Disappointing. I'd logged in tonight thinking we had a relatively decent new thread about something interesting and it was just trollbait this whole time.

^ Settle down, Vera!

Our dramas are nothing compared to the dramas faced by the lovely Amber and her stolid suitor and the other Cavaliers in King Charles' court..

Forever Amber was written by Kathleen Winsor, who died in 2003 - so she could have been a DLer!

She was one of Artie Shaw's 8 ex-wives. I remember when she died, the Times had a small obituary, as I recall.

So didn't Forever Amber have a different ending upon release? The vhs and dvd only had the truncated version. Has anyone seen the original ending?

In the Biography episode of Linda Darnell, linked way upthread at r57, they said that the name "Linda" was chosen for her because the studio thought it would subtly evoke a dusky Latina vibe (I'm paraphrasing) to match her dark hair and eyes. In 1939 when her name was changed, the last thing Fox would have wanted was to give her any sort of German connection, "linde" not withstanding. That Biography episode is great, btw, well-worth a watch, if heart-breaking.

Thanks for posting the WML clip, r87.

Linda is so deliciously vivacious and charming there and so surprisingly funny. Sad to think that when she made this appearance in 1956, she was actually at a very low point in her career, appearing in a stock production of Tea and Sympathy in Florida.

Preminger was one of the most difficult directors for actors to work with. He treated them, especially the women, with abysmal cruelty.

When he was directing "Angle Face" with Jean Simmons and Robert Mitchum, he treated Simmons so badly that she came close to a nervous breakdown. Mitchum, then not quite the star he became, finally took Preminger aside, shoved him up against a wall, and threatened to beat the shit out of him if he didn't leave Simmons alone. As no one would have supposed Mitchum was bluffing, Preminger obliged. Simmons remained grateful to Mitchum for the rest of her life for saving her sanity during filming.

I won't say I don't enjoy some of Preminger's films, but he was a ruthless shite and it deserves mention. About the only actor he didn't try to bully and intimidate, because he was just too big a star, was John Wayne during filiming of "In Harm's Way", a film I like. He treated the rest of the cast with his usual brutality.

[quote]She was one of Artie Shaw's 8 ex-wives.

Artie Shaw caught Wife #5, Ava Gardner, reading "Forever Amber," snatched it out of her hands and ripped it to shreds, calling it a trashy potboiler. A few months after divorcing Ava, he married its author, Kathleen.

R129, according to both Wikipedia and IMDB, after the film was released, it received a C rating from the Catholic Legion of Decency -- "Condemned." This forbid Catholics from seeing it. Fox at first refused to make any changes but eventually they withdrew the film and made substantial edits, including adding a forward, reshooting certain scenes, and changing the ending.

Only the revised version has ever appeared on home video and I doubt they can even reconstruct the original. Fox was notorious for not preserving their films. In the early 70s, they destroyed all negatives of their Technicolor films because they didn't want to pay the storage costs anymore. Fox among all the studios was most famous for its stunning use of Technicolor but all we have today are copies made from inferior elements of varying quality.

Based on this thread last night I pulled my Blu-ray of Amber to rewatch. The print elements used for the Blu-ray are really atrocious and may unfortunately be the best that's left of what once was a sumptuous Technicolor spectacle. You sit through it and try to imagine what it would have looked like in 1947, and it just makes you want to cry.

Linda Lavin was not her real name, [R82].

She’s listed in the 1940 census as Linda Lavin, age 2.

The resident racist has arrived at r115. Casting an American actress who can't do an English accent to save her life is fine.....but heaven forbid anyone be "ghetto"

And r117 isn't aware that Gone With the Wind wasn't "canceled" - it still exists

R131 Have you seen the latest 'Lord Macbeth' and the latest 'Queen Anne Boleyn'?

[quote] a sumptuous Technicolor spectacle

I was hoping it would have been that because it was photographed by the same man who did the sumptuous Cleopatra, The Agony and the Ecstasy, The King and I, and Leave Her to Heaven.

But the thing was utterly studio bound, and frequently shot in darkness. Some scenes were as lifeless as a costume dress parade.

If Forever Amber was a decent read (meaning truly sexy and engaging and fun), there would have been a remake of the film once censorship had lost its hold on Hollywood. The Three Musketeers, in the same historic period, has had endless remakes and reiterations.

Well, people at the time found it sexy and engaging and fun. It didn't really stand the test of time but you could say the same for 99% of books that were written back then. If you look at a list of the bestselling books from the 20s, 30s, and 40s many are totally forgotten. And books that are now considered classics were not necessarily big sellers when they were first released. For the record, I read it and I didn't think it was THAT bad, although it definitely owed something to both GWTW and Vanity Fair.

Well but The Three Musketeers is public domain R134 and can be remade without payment to the Dumas heirs or negotiation with any estate.

[quote] Dumas heirs

Dumas fils?

R134

There have been a few movies dealing with The Restoration of King Charles II.

But they're not like 'Forever Amber which, IMHO, seems to be blatant copy of GWTW.

The book was fun (haven't read it in ages), and Amber was an interesting character. She was like a hooker who can fuck any man (and enjoy it, both the fucking and the material rewards) but is still doggedly, ridiculously devoted to her pimp (or in the book and movie, Bruce, who was an asshole but not a pimp).

The movie is beautiful, and Darnell's very good as Amber, but it was so cut down to pass the censors it falls flat. Plus, Preminger didn't seem to know what to do with it. I don't know what the cinematic term for it is, but there's quite a few scenes where the actors are filmed full-figure, looking at each other from the left and right side of the frame. Like they're just plonked down there on their marks on the soundstage and talk to each other from three feet away.

I like Cornell Wilde but he looks rather unappealing in it. Plus, the movie's too perfect looking, and it never pulls you in, the way GWTW does. Watching Forever Amber, you're always aware you're watching a movie.

Semi-related, I've seen the A&E biography of Linda Darnell, and read Tab Hunter's autobiography, and she was a delightful woman. Hunter wrote about her making a big deal about his birthday while they were together on location for some crappy epic, and she went out of her way to make sure that teenaged kid had a nice celebration.

The crew of Forever Amber really liked Linda, too. She was a great gal.

The only potentially negative thing I heard about Linda was from Maureen o’hara’s book where she said she’d been given a part in a prestige picture at fox but sworn to secrecy. She told Linda over lunch which got back to Zanuck and he took back the role he offered Maureen.

I wonder how made Maureen was and if she forgave Linda or held a grudge.

The fox lot must have been interesting back then with all the contractees like Linda, gene tierney, Jeanne Crain, Anne Baxter and Maureen all vying for the same parts.

R126 - i haven't heard your version of what happened on Angel Face. The version i heard in the RKO documentary from Stewart Granger who was Jean's husband at the time iwas that Preminger wanted Mitchum to really slap Jean and not fake it. He did it repeatedly and Preminger was not satisfied. When Preminger ordered one more time Mitchum slapped HIM and asked, Is that how you want it? Preminger wanted Mitchum fired but Mitchum was RKO's biggest star so that wasn't going to happen.

Preminger = Thuggery

I think Linda made 3 films with Preminger. the last being the little seen The 13th Letter. it's on YouTube.

I found the Angel Face story in the RKO documentary on YouTube. Starts at 27.49.

But they're not like 'Forever Amber which, IMHO, seems to be blatant copy of GWTW.

I don't think FA copies GWTW but it is clear that Fox wanted a major roadshow picture like GWTW and they got it. FA made a lot of money. A much better and very similar story is Mitchell Leisen's Kitty, which rarely shows up anywhere. Highly recommended.

R141, the movie was "The Razor's Edge." Author Somerset Maugham wanted Gene Tierney for the role of Isabel, but Zanuck wanted Maureen O'Hara and gave her the part on the condition that she keep it a secret. She immediately told Linda, who snitched. Zanuck dropped O'Hara and cast Tierney.

Tierney was also the front runner for the role of Amber in "Forever Amber," with Maureen O'Hara also in the mix, lobbying hard for the role and showing up at the commissary in period dress. But they lost out to newcomer Peggy Cummins.

Linda Darnell and Paul Douglas were delightful as the bickering couple in “A Letter to Three Wives”.

With all those beautiful ladies at Fox, add to the mix Alice Faye, Betty Grable and Susan Hayward, why didn't the studio have a better rep for glamour in the 1940s a la MGM?

R144, I like her in The 13th Letter

[quote]With all those beautiful ladies at Fox, add to the mix Alice Faye, Betty Grable and Susan Hayward, why didn't the studio have a better rep for glamour in the 1940s a la MGM?

I came along in the late 1940s and became the most glamorous star Fox ever had.

why didn't the studio have a better rep for glamour in the 1940s a la MGM?

Because MGM had the much bigger roster of male stars as well, and super produced all their big movies in ways none of the other studios ever did.

R149, because Fox studio head, Darryl Zanuck, was a serious-minded Army man and bookworm who kept an eye on the budget and preferred message movies to studio spectacle. Hence, under his tenure, 20th Century Fox put out such serious fare as The Grapes of Wrath, The Song of Bernadette, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, Gentlemen's Agreement, A Streetcar Named Desire, etc. When he handed the reins over to Spyros Skouras is when Fox went off the rails and the financial calamity of Cleopatra.

In contrast, Louis B. Mayer over at MGM believed in putting out crowd-pleasers at whatever cost necessary to create glamour and spectacle.

To my mind and eye, many of those Fox musicals starring Alice Faye, Betty Grable and Marilyn Monroe are every bit as sumptuous (and often more fun) as anything at MGM, from the 1930s b&w Fayes to the later Technicolor Grables and Monroes.

So often the MGM musicals had wonderful production numbers but seriously boring plotting in between (I'm looking at you, Eleanor Powell!). I think Zanuck brought better writers in for everything, including the Fox musicals.

I finally saw A Letter to Three Wives for the first time earlier today on Movies TV. They ran it for Valentine's Day!

There was a glow to MGM movies that other studio movies didn't have. Maybe it was the combination of lighting, sets and star power. It was an "it" kind of thing. MGM had "it". MGM was the Harvard of the studios and its stars were all like Harvard grads.

Fox also had stars and great movies as did the other big studios, and created wonderful spectacles as well, but there was a grandeur at MGM that was just not replicated anywhere else.

[quote] A Letter to Three Wives

Is almost as loquacious as 'All About Eve'.

Mankiewicz wanted five wives but that would have needed a four hour movie.

R157, the movie was based on the novel, "A Letter to Five Wives," but due to time constraints, it was reduced to "A Letter to Four Wives." Then Zanuck ordered the fourth wife cut, and Anne Baxter, who was to play was to play wife Martha, was out of the picture.

Wow,.R2! What a character! To nearly die in the great London fire and later be burned at the stake! What a life she led!

My favorite Darnell line from “A Letter to Three Wives” occurs when she’s dressed for a date with Douglas, and her mother Connie Gilchrist says to her, “Dontcha need somethin’ else, like some beads or somethin’?” And Darnell tosses off, “What I got don’t need beads.”

My gay older brother loved that line so much that one year for a Christmas gift, I painted a pearl necklace, covered by that symbol of a red circle with a slant line across it, on the front of a black t-shirt. And on the back, as if in red lipstick, I painted that line. He seemed to like it, even though he once said he only wore black t-shrts, and always inside out, because he hated wearing slogans. Oh well.

Somebody else must’ve liked it, however, because, after my brother died of AIDS in 1995 in San Francisco, one of his friends specifically requested it. So there’s some guy there, walking around, maybe still wearing it.

It was a one-of-a-kind item.

I love A Letter to 3 Wives but Jeanne Crain is a bit of a weak link in it. And that party dress she wears for dinner out with Ann Sothern and Kirk Douglas is disturbingly silly - I don't think it needed to be so outrageously tacky for us to understand she was unsophisticated.

[quote] for us to understand

But we're more sophisticated than all those people in Peoria.

This dress?

Linda was charming with Jeanne Crain and Cornel Wilde (again) in Preminger's CENTENNIAL SUMMER, which gets no love since it has never had a video release. It's like a more lackadaisical MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS, with a pleasant score by Jerome Kern (his last). I think EVERYONE was dubbed in this one.

So glad they cut out Anne Baxter--she was the WORST. An unappealing, unconvincing actress and a stuffy little snob IRL.

Baxter isn't one of my favorites but she could be OK in the right role.

At any rate what I wanted to mention is that in one of the greatest ever theatrical in jokes, when Lauren Bacall left Applause, the musical version of All About Eve, Baxter replaced her! She got good reviews, too. Friends who saw her said she was great.

I saw Baxter a couple of times in APPLAUSE and she was great fun if not quite as diva stellar as Bacall, who I also saw a couple of times.

Sadly, in comparison, Baxter was again just "too short for that gesture."

Yes, that silly dress at r163. It was tacky and hopeless enough without the huge fake corsage over the bellybutton. And I know the corsage becomes something of a plot point but did it really need to be centrally situated over her bellybutton?

R149 - Susan Hayward didn't come to Fox until the 1950s.

Wearing the corsage at the midsection was popular in the 30's. By the late 40's (when the movie takes place) it was considered very out-of-date, which was part of the tackiness you noted.

[quote] centrally situated over her bellybutton?

Every woman was slim back in those days.

If the choice was between Anne Baxter and Jeanne Crain I'd take Baxter. Baxter is a ham but Crain is as dull as dog water.

And, of course, Baxter did replace a pregnant Crain in All About Eve.

I agree, R172, Crain had sparkly eyes but very dull. In fact, as dull as Darnell.

R171, I hate to break it to you but fat people have always existed

[quote]Baxter isn't one of my favorites but she could be OK in the right role.

Anne Baxter is camp heaven in "The Ten Commandments."

[quote]At any rate what I wanted to mention is that in one of the greatest ever theatrical in jokes, when Lauren Bacall left Applause, the musical version of All About Eve, Baxter replaced her!

Not really an "in joke" so much as it was stunt casting. I think most of the theatergoing public was aware that Anne Baxter was the original Eve Harrington.

R139 Semi-related, I've seen the A&E biography of Linda Darnell, and read Tab Hunter's autobiography, and she was a delightful woman. Hunter wrote about her making a big deal about his birthday while they were together on location for some crappy epic, and she went out of her way to make sure that teenaged kid had a nice celebration.

The movie is Island of Desire. I've been interested in watching it if only to see Linda and Tab onscreen together.

{quote] the movie was based on the novel, "A Letter to Five Wives," but due to time constraints, it was reduced to "A Letter to Four Wives." Then Zanuck ordered the fourth wife cut, and Anne Baxter, who was to play was to play wife Martha, was out of the picture.

And when then remake it for Netflix it'll become A Letter to Twelve Wives, because today everything is pointlessly longer.

Island of Desire is okay. Not as campy as I expected it to be based on the title. Young Tab is gorgeous, though

Anne may have missed out on "A Letter to Three Wives," but she did star with Linda a year prior in "The Walls of Jericho."

I think I remember Tab also talking about how much Linda Darnell put him at ease in his screen test for Island of Desire, telling him she'd be his good luck charm. She really seemed like the most delightful woman.

R141 Who was the top female star for Fox during the 1940s? I always thought it was Gene Tierney because she seemed the most high-profile and got the most prestige dramas but I heard it was Jeanne Crain who was really the leading lady.

r183, Betty Grable was by far the top star of 1940s at Fox and everywhere. She remained in the Top 10 for 10 years, I believe between 1941-1951. Of course, I mean I love her, but they were the war years when everyone's standards were questionable.

I meant to say top FEMALE star above ^^^^^

I imagine Tyrone Power was Fox's top male star.

Crain kept having to drop out of projects, mostly because of pregnancy. I think she would have been far better than Baxter in “All About Eve.” Baxter is so obvious from the get-go. Crain’s vapid sweetness could convince everyone before we realize how conniving she really is.

But the Crain role she never did that’s most obvious is Diana in Fox’s mega production of “The Robe.” She dropped out, of course, but that’s still her face between Burton and Mature in all the ads. For all the fancy publicity, you’d think Fox would have replaced her image with that of her replacement, Jean Simmons. But no dice. Go figure.

R186 That's just a lousy illustration.

Jean and Jeanne had similar eyes but Jean had a distinctive box-shaped jawline.

R185, I was their bottom male star

Yes, you were Cesar. And a joke!

"What big film starred Richard Burton, Jeanne Crain and Victor Mature?" sounds like a trick question. Or a false premise. Or something.....

For a very brief period, Alice Faye and Sonja Henie were Fox's top female stars, but Betty Grable eclipsed them in popularity during the war years. Poor Alice suffered the indignity of having many of her scenes cut from "Fallen Angel" (1945), in favor of new "It" girl Linda Darnell. Alice walked out on her contract, causing Darryl Zanuck to blackball her for breach of contract.

From all I've read, Alice Faye was ready to retire anyway and start a family with new hubby bandleader/comedian Phil Harris. She then spent many happy years acting and singing on his successful radio show where she didn't have to bother with girdles and false eyelashes. Their marriage was apparently blissful, produced two sweet daughters, and lasted 54 years until his death in 1995.

Like Deanna Durbin, she knew when she'd had enough, even though she eventually made a film comeback in the early 60s in the musical State Fair with Pat Boone, Ann-Margret, Bobby Darin and Pamela Tiffin.

[quote]From all I've read, Alice Faye was ready to retire anyway and start a family with new hubby bandleader/comedian Phil Harris. She then spent many happy years acting and singing on his successful radio show where she didn't have to bother with girdles and false eyelashes.

It was their show, not "his" show. It was called "The Phil Harris-Alice Faye Show."

That's neither Jean nor Jean in the poster of The Robe. That's Dawn Addams, who's in the movie for a brief moment. I can't remember how she ended up in the art for the movie but I think it had something to do with a mistake by Fox' publicity department.

That was no mistake.

Well Dawn, you had a lousy career on the fringes of 2 big studios and then shunted off to garbage in Europe.

Don't know about Dawn, but who is that hot hunk she is pictured with in R196? Wowzer!

R197 He is wearing what the French called a 'slip' or a 'vee'.

R196 I used to get confused between Christian Marquand and the (much prettier) Phillipe Forquet.

R142 - Interesting, that's not the story I read. Angel Face was 1953, and I didn't think Mitchum had quite hit the stardom he would later in the decade. I thought of him as still the male equivalent of an ingenue in that film. I might be wrong. I thought he hit his real stardrom in the late fifties, early sixties.

But even he'd bit at the level he was in the 1940s, I doubt it would have stopped him from rounding on Preminger. He wasn't much known for giving a shit.

No, I'd say Mitchum was a huge star by 1954 when he co-starred opposite Marilyn Monroe in RIVER OF NO RETURN, one of only many big titles in his early career. True, he became an even bigger star in the late 50s, helped by a loosening in censorship which allowed for more films like NIGHT OF THE HUNTER in 1955 that made him even more popular as a proto anti-hero..

[quote] He wasn't much known for giving a shit.

Charles Laughton says he was 'much known' for giving it.

R184 I've never seen any of her movies nor have I ever wanted to but I've constantly heard about how she was a box office queen. June Allyson always seemed like her MGM equivalent minus the box office appeal.

Betty Grable hit it big before June Allyson and I would say Betty was a bigger star. Betty was the Fox equivalent of Judy AT MGM in the 1940s.

I think Out of the Past made Mitchum a star and his arrest for being caught with dope would not have been such a big deal if he wasn't a star.

R204 I should have clarified that I meant Betty Grable always seemed to be June Allyson's equivalent in terms of physical appearance and performance-wise. Judy is an entirely different class imo even if somehow Betty Grable did outgross her all those years.

I don't get the comparison between JA and BG. Totally different universes.

[quote]! should have clarified that I meant Betty Grable always seemed to be June Allyson's equivalent in terms of physical appearance and performance-wise

No, not really. Betty Grable was considered a sexpot. Her studio, as a publicity stunt, insured her gams for a million dollars, and she was a favorite World War II pin-up girl. June Allyson, with her prim Peter Pan collars, was much more the girl next door.

re them as performers. Betty said she thought was just an ok singer but I don't think her vocals were given the sweetening that June's sometimes were. June was an underrated dancer but not given the kind of numbers that Betty was.

[quote] Betty Grable always seemed to be June Allyson's equivalent in terms of physical appearance and performance-wise.

I couldn't think of two who were more opposite. Gable was cute and bubbly. Allyson looked like an old lady even at 25.

[quote]Betty Grable always seemed to be June Allyson's equivalent in terms of physical appearance and performance-wise.

I had never associated the two.

Great pic, R211. That's Ann Blyth, Betty Grable, Deborah Kerr, Betty Hutton, Rosemary Clooney, and June Allyson in 1956.

How did the classy Deborah Kerr ever get roped into an event with all those floozies??

R211 There's something wrong with Ann Blyth's neck and jaw.

Too many Hostess Cupcakes, r214.

R211 OMG Ann Blyth was the tallest of the bunch and she is tiny.

R111 Those big flared skirts jammed up so close to each other!

Are these Dior A-Line skirts?

R212 Why is Ann Miller not there?

R212 Are all these MGM girls?

No, Grable wasn't MGM.

Nor was Betty Hutton (except for ANNIE GET YOUR GUN) though by this point in the 50s I doubt any studio would have her.

Can anyone figure out who the "her" represents in r221's post.

Annie Oakley, Rose.

Interesting to see Betty Hutton and June Allyson together in that photo at R211; Allyson was Hutton’s understudy on Broadway in “Panama Hattie”.

Rise & Shine

I want to watch Centennial Summer but it's not on DVD. Bummer.

Watch away, r226...

R227 Thank you. I wish the print was better though and it's a shame the movie hasn't been released in the US.

Ok I tried watching this film and it sucks. I thought Elizabeth Taylor's Raintree County was the worst GWTW ripoff, until I tried watching this. 1937's Fire Over England, with Leigh in a supporting role, was 100x better than this. It was said that was the film that convinced Selznick that Vivien Leigh was Scarlett.

For a big budget technicolor epic, it just doesn't seem epic. It is claustrophobic and dark.

R229 I think that's because the original color negatives are lost so what they had left for the new restoration wasn't in all that great condition. Hence why the movie looks so dark now

[quote] Ok I tried watching this film and it sucks

The one on Youtube is abysmal.

The image is abysmal let alone the "acting".

R231 The channel DK Classics on YouTube has the Blu-Ray transfer for Forever Amber. Much better copy than the other versions on YouTube.

Charming on “What’s My Line”!

I heard this movie had an alternate ending which had to be deleted by the censor board. Is the original ending available anywhere?

No r214. Sadly the footage seems to have disappeared, however considering Fox has an amazing track record of keeping outtakes and alternative versions (i.e. My Darling Clementine, also with Darnell. ) However Fox did foolishly junk almost all of their Technicolor negatives, so this may have been impacted.

I suspect that it may be out there but there is limited interest - and money- for this film.

R235 That's a pity but not surprising. I heard about the Fox fire and how the 8-hour cut of Cleopatra was probably lost in that. I didn't realize My Darling Clementine (which I've also seen) had any alternate footage though.

Leave Her to Heaven looks great on Blu-ray, but from what I've seen of Forever Amber, it's very dark in comparison like the movie wasn't lit properly.

The longer, alternate pre-release version found in the vaults is on the Criterion blu ray of MY DARLING CLEMENTINE.

The Criterion blu ray release has both the released version and the pre-release version which is longer and with alternate versions of existing scenes.

Thanks for explaining, I've seen the theatrical cut then. I wonder if the pre-release cut is significantly superior.