Did Russia dope its way to a gold medal in team figure skating?

No, but this shit is happening.

Allowing Russian athletes to compete in any form is a joke...if a country is banned then let their athletes sit it out none of this ROC shit.

ITA R2.

Meaningless gesture.

The US won't dare criticize Russia, since they will once again be running the country in 2024 when Trump is re-elected.

It's so weird - the skaters had a mini ceremony with just the panda mascots but there's some mysterious 'legal issue'.

Oh, never mind. Just seen that it IS due to a failed drug test:

"The situation revolves around a performance-enhancing drug test taken by a Russian skater prior to their arrival in Beijing, according to the website InsideTheGames.biz. USA Today has since reported that a member of the Russian team that won gold has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs."

imagine if it's Kamila Valieva. O_O

^ oh, Lord! That would be big.

I like Kamila.

I legit hope it's not her.

If this holds, the Americans would be bumped up to gold, Japanese silver, Canada bronze. It would also affect the individual's upcoming event.

The Russian competitors were: women's competitor Kamila Valieva, 15, men’s competitor Mark Kondratiuk, 18; pairs skaters Anastasia Mishina, 20, and Aleksandr Galliamov, 22, ice dancers Victoria Sinitsina, 26, and Nikita Katsalapov, 30.

R6 Wow, shit got real. Putin won't be amused.

Maybe it’s Nikita being old and all.

Oh shit.

Omg, it IS Kamila Valieva. But she is under 16 years old, so there's some weird legal issue about that.

From the article:

[quote]The exact nature of Valieva’s problem is unclear but the situation is complicated because, under the rules of the World Anti-Doping Code, she is a "Protected Person". That means as "an athlete who at the time of the anti-doping rule violation: has not reached the age of sixteen" Valieva cannot officially be identified if she is guilty of an anti-doping violation. insidethegames understands that several legal teams are currently involved working on the complex case which is expected to stretch into tomorrow before a conclusion is reached. If Valieva is sanctioned then any penalties are likely to be much less severe than if she was over the age of 16 and the role her entourage played will come under scrutiny.

AND the ISU is heading towards raising the minimum age of senior competitors. Is Eteri's system about to collapse?

Eteri shaking with rage. Also Eteri: feeding the kiddies the good drugs.

I guess that explains why they gave the team their podium moment along with the other skaters albeit just with the panda mascots.

But if the test was taken before the Olympics, why did it take this long to get the result? I'd like to know the exact dates.

Well her little botgirls all cheat the takeoffs of their toe assisted jumps, so juicing on pills would be par for the Eteri course.

Eteri is the new drug lord in Russia.

Why do her drugs only work on little girls, though? Her men and Tarasova Morosov are very inconsistent.

[quote]I guess that explains why they gave the team their podium moment along with the other skaters albeit just with the panda mascots.

Didn't they do this in Pyeongchang? The medals were handed out in the official victory ceremonies.

R21 You're right, my bad. I am used to seeing the athletes get the medals and mascots at the same time.

Maybe she's on Adderall

The drug she tested positive for:

[quote]It has been alleged they have used cardiac glycosides, a medication to increase the cardiac output of the heart, sending more blood and oxygen to the muscles, and thus improving athletic endurance.

So is she disqualified?

Who will Tara and Johnny fawn over if she's disqualified, medals stripped, and sent home in disgrace?

R7, hope it's not. Goodness, that would be terrible.

I don't understand why she'd take the risk? I mean, she's also 15, so it's ultimately her handlers who took the risk.

Either way.

R27 here -- okay I posted before reading the items above. Sorry. apparently her coach is known for doping athletes? WTF?

R28 Yes, I highly doubt a 15 year old knew how to get drugs, or what she was even taking. She was under the care of her parents, coach, and doctor. She likely just did what they told her to do.

I expect that's why they have the rule that under 16s are 'protected'. But they should also bar 15 year olds from competing. It's too young when they don't have agency. I will agree with the ISU raising the age. They will do it gradually - 16, then 17..

R30, that's what's particularly awful about this: she's too young to consent to the use of this drug. And who knows how long they have been giving her PEDs?

Why not just stop doing the Olympics altogether? Too political, too much cheating, etc. There is a claim that Chinese refs are making calls favoring Chinese athletes. Crooked as shit.

"Hearing rumors that there will be good news coming for ROC tomorrow. Cover up?"

Hope not but the IOC have been so pathetic in the way they've dealt with Russia I wouldn't be surprised.

And if the IOC does cover this up, they will be tacitly endorsing the illegal drugging of minors.

What would Dick Button say?

What would Tonya Harding do??

Russian newspaper RBC reported on Wednesday that star figure skater Kamila Valieva had tested positive for Trimetazidine, a drug used to treat angina.

R36, she probably has the same “heart condition” Maria Sharapova had.

[quote] There is a claim that Chinese refs are making calls favoring Chinese athletes.

"There is a claim that..." - LOL!

This is the most BBC/CNN-like statement here lol. Totally unattributed, totally zero basis - there are no "Chinese refs."

Get back to the skating drama - any new developments?

R37 Yep, it's a similar drug to meldonium, in the same WADA category (S4 - hormone and metabolic modulators).

3x Olympic gold, 2x silver, and1x bronze medal-winning swimming champion Sun Yang was banned for trimetazidine.....

Sounds like it's great for your heart!

R40 A drug sick 60 year olds take. Amazed that a top athlete would need to take it at 15 years old. LOL. who really believes that shit? Only people who are stupid or in deep denial.

If she's still allowed to compete, her gold medal will forever be tarnished.

Cheaters, r41.

Would it be possible for the coach to tell her that they are "vitamins"? Then she would not be directly complicit.

I want an "All Drugs Olympics" to commence- anyone can take anything they want. Records, femurs, hearts, and bowels will be shattered. People would tune in to see the madness, and viewership would be at an all time high.

I don't think she's really in a position to consent at 15.

[quote] Would it be possible for the coach to tell her that they are "vitamins"? Then she would not be directly complicit.

If it were, every athlete would dope and claim ignorance later. Stupidity/willful ignorance has never been a defense for doping.

If any of you were so fucking naive to think the Russians, China or any other known cheater country were not doping it up then you're a total delusional moron in denial.

I KNEW THIS THE ENTIRE TIME! She's a fucking 15 year old girl doing 50,000 quads in one program!!!!!!!! If you're going to dope and cheat at least have some fucking common sense about it, Russian! FUCKTARDS!

This is a massive "DUUUUUUUH" to the dumb asses of the world!

[quote] Omg, it IS Kamila Valieva. But she is under 16 years old, so there's some weird legal issue about that.

Let the bitch take the fall for it! I sure as hell did.. for Sudafed!

R47 On this very website many posters used to defend Valieva’s coach Eteri Tuberidze: „No they don’t need doping, they just need to build a competitive environment where all the girls feel threatened by each other and have to compete against each other every day. When a girl leaves the team, the reason her performances she fall apart is because she is not in that competitive environment anymore.“ As if. I mean how dumb can some people be….😭

I could see a scenario where they take the team gold away but allow her to compete, since she’s under age. But as someone pointed upthread, what a huge stain on her win, if she got the gold in the women’s event.

It’s sad, she’s just a kid, but my opinion is she can’t be allowed to compete further.

R50 If she is still allowed to compete since she’s underaged, why take away the team Gold? There is literally no difference in her condition in the team event and individual event…..

I wonder how TV commentators will react to this after praising her to high heavens and declaring her as GOAT for those unbelievable jumps, should she really be allowed to compete again…..

It was always going to be a huge mistake to lionize any of these ROC/OAR/Russian dopers. I really want to see her kicked out if only to watch Tara and Johnny's reactions.

^ I’m sure they’re in shock right now. No one really expects a 15 year old to dope.

I agree that fifteen-year-olds should not complete if the rules excuse them from consequences for this sort of thing. Leaving that loophole open means that unscrupulous coaches and parents will dope up fourteen- and fifteen-year-old athletes knowing that even if they are caught, they'll get a pass.

r54, wins! Boom!

I feel bad for her--she's set up to be the scapegoat for the Russian doping machine. Irina Slutskaya practically tortured her body for a decade and "only" managed silver, so the Russians decided investing years in a hard working athlete just wasn't worth it anymore. Once the scoring system changed, they took a great opportunity to churn out this young skinny phenoms to dope up and churn out previously impossible numbers and combos of jumps, destroy their bodies, collect the medals, have mysterious health problems, and then disappear after 1-2 years in an "early retirement." Sotnikova, Zagitova, and Medvedeva are all probably chilling on a farm somewhere in permanent hip casts.

Why do they keep letting Russia compete? Obviously Russia doesn’t care about the bogus flag punishment, which isn’t a real punishment anyway if you’re still allowed to compete in “Team” events.

[QUOTE] Sotnikova, Zagitova, and Medvedeva are all probably chilling on a farm somewhere in permanent hip casts.

Quite the contrary. Both Zagitova and Medvedeva are in Beijing as part of the Russian media delegation. Zagitova is hawking Puma athleticwear on her latest IG post and Medvedeva is endorsing some bank. They’re raking in the cash. I don’t think the Russians give a shit if their athletes are doping…all’s fair in love and war?

Whatever happened to Lipnitskaya?

R59, same trajectory. Competed for about 2 seasons, miraculously pulling off difficult jumps and combos with ease, sudden injury followed by retirement. I doubt we'll see a Russian women compete in more than one Olympics again.

R58, being taken care of after "retirement" is no doubt part of the deal.

R59 After being hyped by Russian media to win gold, Julia Lipnitskaya finished in 5th place in the 2014 Olympics (at age 15), then retired a few years later due to an eating disorder and mental health issues. Last I heard she was doing figure skating commentary for a Russian media outlet.

Winning a gold medal in figure skating for Russia is like winning Hunger Games. You get paraded around but you have to fuck all the old guys in the government. Zagitova looks dead behind the eyes.

R60, R61, that's a shame about her. I thought she had a little more presence than the newer Russian skatingbots. Guess she was doped to the gills as well, eh?

Kamila Valieva was brilliant. Don't take away her gold medal.

If she's caught doping she can't compete. Period.

This isn't hard.

Same with Russia/Russian athletes.

One thing is for certain is that if she is DQd then the Russians will blame the West because it's never their fault.

Does she have leprosy or something? What’s with her skin?

Did she ingest the equivalent of Flubber?

[Quote] Kamila Valieva was brilliant.

No. She really wasn't. She's doped up.

Former Russian figure skater Lypsinka has made a career for herself after skating.

Let the girl skate, but don't let her know that her music is being replaced by " WAP." It would be historic and fitting.

[quote] No. She really wasn't. She's doped up

Reports are that it is for the banned heart medication trimetazidine R69.

Russians are always cheating. What's wrong with them?

[Quote] Reports are that it is for the banned heart medication trimetazidine

Trimetazidine is a known drug for masking human growth hormone, r72. That is why it is banned. She wasn't taking it for a heart ailment.

I know R74. I was replying to R69s post with the report of the BANNED substance.

So what's the hold up w/the Olympics officials? Strip away their team's gold. Ban her or anyone else who has tested positive from rest of Olympics.

It's Russia. Of course they cheated.

"The skates go... and the kid with 'em! The Olympics doesn't go for boos and dope!"

R74 Do you have a source for that it's a masking agent? It isn't listed amongst WADA's masking agents and I can't find any reference to it being one. There is also scientific literature to back up that it's beneficial for athletes:

"The reason why TMZ is banned in and out of competition is because it is a cardiac metabolic modulator— it is pharmacologically proven to improve physical efficiency, especially in endurance sports. TMZ has cardio-protective effects and modulates energy substrate metabolism.

Even if one is not actively using TMZ, previous use during training provides an athletic advantage. What we know from the scientific literature is that it is well-equipped to improve the exercise capacity of athletes.

For example, it has been studied as a medical treatment for people with low muscle strength or physical performance (e.g., may improve low handgrip strength and declining gait speed)."

"@cbrennansports

Two big developments in Russia-gate this morning in Beijing: Kamila Valieva shows up for her practice right now, and IOC is not talking about who gets team skating medals, deferring to "legal case." Batten down the hatches, everyone. This is going to get very interesting."

I don't know why anyone is surprised about any of this. Of course they were cheating. They've cheated for years. It's also no surprise considering how their female skaters are doing things that are impossible, and started doing it out of nowhere.

The FIG and IOC will not do anything about it. They have repeatedly turned a blind's eye to it.

The ROC will probably release medical records saying that she has some condition that requires the medication and they forgot to get a waiver for it... or the excuse will be they cant punish her because it wasn't her fault and she's ONLY 15! Or they cant strip the ROC of the medal because it wouldn't be fair to the rest of her team that didn't cheat!

Basically, a bullshit excuse but they'll let it slide.

Even if they strip her of the Team Medal, they will probably still allow her to compete in the Individual events. They shouldn't, but I believe they did the same thing to that gymnast a few years ago. She won the All Around, but they found what's basically Sudafed in her system, which was banned at the time. They stripped her of her Medal there but let her continue to compete in the rest of the events and kept any medals she won thereafter because she didn't test positive again during those events.

Christine Brennan was on CNN last night and said that Russia should be banned from the Olympics for their involvement with doping.

Any news on this? Are they going to do NOTHING?

I’m really out of touch with figure skating these days but I watched her long. Even I was kind of flabbergasted that not only was she doing all these quads but with one arm over her head.

Russia is negotiating a payoff with Bach. If the check clears, she skates.

I'm OK with Valieva just getting a warning rather than a ban because she's so young, but she shouldn't be allowed to complete in the individual event, nor should the team get to keep their gold. And the adults in the situation should be punished severely.

People won't forget if Russia is allowed to get away from this. It's being widely reported on mainstream news worldwide.

[Quote]I'm OK with Valieva just getting a warning rather than a ban because she's so young, but she shouldn't be allowed to complete in the individual event, nor should the team get to keep their gold. And the adults in the situation should be punished severely.

This.

[quote] I'm OK with Valieva just getting a warning rather than a ban

She must be banned because they've set a precedent for this with the IOC stripping Raducan of her gold medal. To not do so would be unfair.

Let's not forget that she is competing for Russia, or whatever they are calling themselves this time, a country that is ALREADY being punished for doping. WTF is wrong with these losers?

The Russian OC officials are fat, lazy abd stupid as they could apply for therapeutic use exemption for the drug but did not. The American athletes use TUEs all the time.

The team medal should be stripped. Even the Chinese gymnastics team was stripped of their bronze medal when they had discovered that they'd falsified one of their gymnasts' ages.

R90 TUEs are definitely misused all the time and there should be a level playing field but they're for vaguely convincing things like ADHD medication. I think even they'd struggle to justify a heart medication that only very sick and old people take, and which has 'ADULT USE ONLY' on the box.

Russia is still cheating.

The most corrupt nation on earth. From its people to its politics. There is nothing decent or beautiful about Russia or it’s culture.

Seems like a good time for this ..

Russia is a rogue state run by mobsters with access to advanced weaponry.

It is not a legitimate government.

FREE RUSSIA!

Sooooo the penalties are much less severe if you are a kiddie doper rather than a older teen doper? That is some kind of cray cray.

I'm waiting for the other 2 Eteri-bots to get "homesick" and have to leave Bejing before the ladies competitions.

They have to have dirty bottles waiting in line to be tested by WADA.

Nuke it.

Didn't I tell you guys they were doping? I saw it happening at the Olympics and here we are. The IOC and ISU are such jokes.

So is Johhny Weir working for the Russians? Part of why NBC is not going harder on the matter is in part because Johnny refuses to go there. Scott Hamilton would have been on the case from the get go.

NBC needs to realize that this is the type of drama that brings ratings. Pressure the IOC to strip the gold medal from the dirty Russian skaters.

Johnny is Russia’s official rimmer. Always has been. It’s sickening, really.

Eteri is such a troll, 'liking' Katerina Witt's impassionated post saying that the adults who did this to Kamila should be banned from the sport forever.

No, seriously, it makes me think that she may be angling to make the doctor the fall guy.. what do you think?

*Impassioned

*Katarina

She needs to be banned. There is precent for banning underage athletes. Swimmer Rick Demont lost his gold medal in 1972 because his asthma medicine was on the banned list. He was 16. There are other cases too.

[quote] So is Johhny Weir working for the Russians?

I've wondered how Johnny Weir reconciles his Russophilia with their homophobia...

Yeah, Valieva can be banned for two years the way Carolina Kostner was--though all Kostner did was lie and say her boyfriend wasn't in the house when the drug testers came by. In Valieva's case, it will be the same as a lifetime ban because of the way Eteri bots work, but this one-year-and-done crap of Eteri's has ruined women's figure skating anyway.

I feel sorry for Valieva, but not nearly as sorry as I do for all the Japanese and American skaters who haven't cheated and have been left off the podium because of Eteri's shenanigans. I mean, I don't believe for a second that Valieva is the only doped skater out of the Eteri factory.

[Quote] So is Johhny Weir working for the Russians?

Russians are his FETISH,

R102 I like Katherina Witt but she makes some really dumb points there. Of course, doping would help a female skater learning quads and improving her artistry by giving her more endurance, stamina and strength to handle the crazy training regime that Eteri Tuberidze is known for. Not to mention the psychological advantage that comes from that. It always seemed curious to me how Eteri’s most famous students like Lipnitskaia, Medevedeva, Zagitova seemed to enter a state of trance when they skated their programs with the most complex transitions in the most fluid ways under Eteri’s guiding. But when Medvedeva went to Bryan Orser, her programs became much less complex, her skating much less fluid and consistent. And this happened to basically all female skater who left Eteri…..

R104 North Korea had their entire Gymnastics Team banned for years because they used underaged athletes. They should do the same with the Russians here.

So does this mean that the record book gets cleared (for now) and they don't consider her Quad as being a legitimate first at the Olympics?

Are those bruises on her arms & legs? And a bandage on her arm?

Let’s hope that that’s what happened and that they stripped the Russians of their team medal. That would also disqualify her from her event. Bye-bye

Cheating in the Olympic Games?!

I have never heard of such treachery.

Russian cheating always makes for a more interesting Winter Olympics.

I can see the argument that the athlete is too young to be held responsible for being doped, but the ROC needs to be sanctioned by losing the team medal and her spot in the women’s competition.

Ban the little harlot and send her to the gulag!

Ill bet they spin it by saying she's a minor and shouldn't be punished for what the Adults around her decided to do... and they'll end up letting her keep the mdeal and she'll get to compete.

R116 What? So that the adults around her continue profiting from her?

That’s what the Russian Skating Federation does r117.

Yup, R117. The IOC has shown they don't have any backbone when it comes to the Russians. They'll let them do whatever they want and use her age as a reason to do it. "She's young and worked hard... it's not her fault that her coaches made xyz... to strip her of the Team Medal would be unfair to her and her teammates and to deny her the right to skate would only further victimize her!"

So essentially, they'll confirm to the Russians that it was in fact a smart move to do it... and they'll continue to do it.

I don't really care about what happens after, but the team medal should be taken away and she should not be allowed to compete in the individual.

Also Russia is going to use this as their justification for invading Ukraine haha

R92, that's horrifying if true. It's bad enough doping an athlete when you know the risks, but they haven't even tested that drug on children?!

Do Russians cheat to get ahead?

Nahhhh.

When will Trump and his ass kissers comment on how no punishment should be given to the Russians?

She's getting a hearing that will decide if she can compete.

You can just see the great big fat person that lives inside of her that is going to pop out as soon as she stops skating or doping.

[quote] Ill bet they spin it by saying she's a minor and shouldn't be punished for what the Adults around her decided to do...

I don't remember this vigorous debate happening about 'oh she's just a minor' re: Raducan. The IOC already decided how they wanted to handle such a situation over 20 years ago, and they doubled down. This whole debacle should be very cut & dry.

R126, they'd say the difference is Raducan was 17! This is Russian is just a poor, innocent, little baby, of a girl!

I listened to a piece about how The Russian Federation is actually manipulating media by putting her as the center of it, and painting her as an innocent child, in order to gain worldwide sympathy and pressure the IOC to let it go.

The piece I was listening pointed to the 2004 Olympics (I think) and how all these countries had to put pressure on the IOC in order to fix the Russian Cheating Scandal of those games... and it was only because of that constant pressure they did something about it. This go around, all other countries, including USA, Canada, Japan, who would benefit from a disqualification, are staying silent. No pressure will mean nothing will be done.

I wouldn't assume that there's no pressure being put on the IOC.

When will we know how she's going to be punished? Please just disqualify and kick her out, FGS. Delete all her records too.

Shithole Russia never learns.

It's both amusing and pathetic that Russia has been caught doping ever since their "ban." They clearly do not give a shit and have no intention of following the rules. Doping curling people and now teenage figure skaters? Pathetic shithole country.

I have so many questions. The positive test is from December 25th. Why has it only come out now? RUSADA (Russia's anti-doping agency) provisionally banned her probably because they had to but then lifted it almost straight away when she appealed. I'm thankful media broke the news because otherwise it would all have been swept under the rug due to her being a minor who officially can't be identified. Now there's pressure on the IOC.

Why is Russia so consistently fucking evil?

It’s a travesty they’ve even been allowed to compete.

Eteri has two other skaters - Shcherbakova and Trusova - who will attempt quads (no other female contestant will), so even in Kamila's absence, Eteri's stable will likely get the gold anyway. It feels like Medvedeva-Zagitova all over again, just a different version!

By the way, the doctor Eteri's team has is an anesthesiologist "normally they choose doctors that specialize in orthopedics/sports medicine (bone/muscle injuries), as opposed to injections/administering drugs".

R132, someone else said this in a different thread. It's an interesting take.

[quote] I guess somebody wanted to expose coach Eteri and the Russian Federation at the biggest stage possible, taking down their star athlete AFTER getting media exposure for lading quads in the ladies’ team event and ‘winning’ a gold medal but BEFORE the start of the ladies’ individual competition. Postponing the medal ceremony again and again because of the ongoing ‘legal discussion’ only adds to the attention this creates. The Russian Federation apparently had no idea because otherwise they could have easily used some other girls in the team event and still secured the gold. I think that somebody know exactly what they were doing, these are no coincidences….

Apparently she has a temporarily lift that will allow her to skate... the group the company that did the Negative test in December has said they will be appealing that with the IOC (to uphold a ban of her being able to skate).

R113 Because Putin, duh……

R136, that is a convincing point. BTW, the ROC is apparently going with the old "she didn't fail any other drug tests" argument that no one is willing to buy any more.

An entire thread devoted to figure skating and no one on a gay board felt any compunction to comment on the VPL on the very tall Russian skater in the middle of this photo? He looks semi-erect to me.

would love to know Anna Shcherbakova's private thoughts watching this. It must be like Nadal seeing Djokovic being potentially deported from Australia.

[QUOTE] This go around, all other countries, including USA, Canada, Japan, who would benefit from a disqualification, are staying silent.

I also listened to that piece and it was implied that other federations are staying quiet because it could open a whole can of worms (cough, Adderall, cough, appetite suppressant, etc).

The ugly truth is most athletes are probably doping in one form or another. Some are in sloppy state-sponsored programs, others are in highly sophisticated privatized programs that are a few steps ahead of what is being tested, and still others get therapeutic use exemptions. Russia just got caught this time, that’s all.

Between country-hopping, drugs, reinstatement of pro athletes, and baggy ski jumping attire, the Olympics have been a clusterfuck for YEARS.

You need to get out more R140

Personally I think r140 should stay in more.

R142 I've always said that was the problem with Russia's approach. If it's state-sponsored doping it's much easier to pin that onto a country doing it for everyone (at Sochi they even actually broke into the lab to switch samples) whereas if it's done under a capitalistic system like the US, it's just pinned onto the individual athlete. I don't doubt that a lot of or even most professional athletes are doping, it's just the state-sponsored ones that have the potential to really blow up because it's systematic. The East Germans did state sponsored doping too.

Forgot to say: the key is that under state-sponsored doping, the athlete doesn't really have a choice.

It's simply his flaccid dong, R140.

I agree with the comment in R136, I also believe that people are trying to take down the Eteri factory.

R133 Remember, Russia pretty much wiped out its ruling and educated class with the Russian Revolution. What you basically have are peasants who have no sense that they have any responsibility as to how their country is run. There have always been Russian dictators and strong men and not much of an educated middle class. And those dictators are *admired*.

Russians not only think that everybody cheats, they don't even get why anyone would think it's a problem.

I can't stand it when skaters wear their tights over their boots. It looks so awful. Eteri's girls frequently do it.

R140 is right that the Russian pairs guy has a noticeable bulge -- it was also visible when he was coming off the ice after skating in the Team Event. He was wearing tight pants which made his package more visible than that of other male skaters.

yeah but this thread is about doping?

R140 Haha that Russian pairs skater Aleksandr Galliamov, 22 years old, 6'2 tall. He ALWAYS displays a prominent bulge in sports gear. Gay figure skating vlogger Dave Lease like to shamelessly talk about Aleksandr's pants on his show, not hiding how much this turns him on, e.g. at 53:37 in the video below.

Aleksandr's face is actually really cute and his behavior seems sweet. He even pings a bit. I think the eyebrows look a bit overdone, though.

kick the cheaters asses out !!!

R151, bulges are welcome wherever they occur.

But back to the subject: it's official that Valieva is the subject of the failed drug test. The Russian Anti-Doping Agency knew that she failed her test in December, but failed to report it at the time. If it had been reported she wouldn't be at the Olympics.

Does Eteri pimp out the little strumpets to oligarchs on the side?

R155, that’s grounds enough to take away the gold… the cover up is just as bad as the infraction.

[quote] Russians not only think that everybody cheats, they don't even get why anyone would think it's a problem.

- R148

The Russians have nothing on the Chinese when it comes to attitudes about cheating. Within the past decade (I think) there were protests in China because students taking some test were not allowed to cheat. People were outraged at the idea that cheating would be disallowed. They ALWAYS cheat. Even at US universities, the Chinese students collide in organized cheating. It would not occur to them NOT to cheat. It’s how they do it. They also learn the material, but it’s a given that they will cheat on top of that if there is any possibility. And the prevalence of foreign students from China has caused this attitude to spread to domestic students to some degree.

The Russians didn't know about the failed test until February 8th. That's despite the WADA deadline being 20 days after the test was taken to get the result. The excuse for the delay is coronavirus..

"The journalists who broke the story of Russian skater Kamila Valieva’s positive drugs test on Wednesday say they have faced death threats, abuse, and warnings they should check their tea."

[quote] Within the past decade (I think) there were protests in China because students taking some test were not allowed to cheat.

R158, what scurrilous, baseless nonsense. (I think.)

I was inside of the time period, R161. Not that the incident took place.

[quote] They ALWAYS cheat. Even at US universities, the Chinese students collide [sic] in organized cheating. It would not occur to them NOT to cheat. It’s how they do it.

lol gobbling up BBC/CNN hate like a flyover rube.

^ unsure of the time period.

[quote] What would Dick Button say?

“Oh, my!”

R164, can you please link to credible news sources, not outlets for hate-inducing propaganda cooked up by ... certain scary parties?

They were angry because the local government should have used video cameras, and it was unfair to have people roaming around the test room adding pressure to the students. You don't understand the exam culture there. There must be absolute silence: airplane flights are even halted during the exam in the densely populated areas.

No one was saying "We are rioting because our kids should be aloud to cheat." That's the most vicious, racist, dehumanizing bullshit I've seen in a while. Shame on you.

*allowed

I’m not hateful. I don’t even hold it against them because they don’t consider it wrong. But it’s something to be aware of. I’ve seen it. Any grad student in a STEM field or anyone who has taught at a university is going to know what I’m talking about. You are the rube, R163.

- R158, R161

Apparently there's a video of Eteri talking about meldonium and needing to find an alternative after it was banned... (TMZ is very similar to meldonium - in the same category.)

R165, that was another faggy Dick....ENBERG. The sweater tied around his neck guy who lusted for Stefan Edberg.

R160 wow, and everybody knows Russian death threads should be taken seriously….

I feel really bad for these Russian kids who are plucked from their families, doped up and worked to death, shoved before the world stage for a brief time, and then abandoned to live adult lives with chronic health problems. I hope they at least get a decent pension out of it.

Scary - seeing speculation that Eteri puts her skaters on hormonal puberty-blocking drugs but which also cause osteoporosis, explaining why so many of her skaters have fractures and broken bones.

Gossip: "kosto's junior world championships 2019 withdrawal? official reason given: ankle injury. allegedly the actual reason: she was in renal failure because of the doping regimen eteri and shvetsky had her on."

I really don't understand the emphasis to win that badly for China and Russia to medically alter their athletes for decades- what do they gain from it?

Is Ottavio Sinquanta or whatever his name is, still running the ISU? He’s known to be a grifter.

Nationalistic pride.

[quote] what do they gain from it?

According to the 2022 Winter Olympics medal count, the envious #7 and #8 positions -- behind the U.S.!

When has any Russian athlete not doped?

R176 no, he has retired now (he's 83).

R175, it’s the desire to appear great on the world’s stage. Russia has had more medals stripped due to revelations about doping than other country.

R175 it goes back to the Cold War. Athletics were used as a "weapon" for countries to prove how superior they were.

Allegations that she does it to boys too:

[quote]"We need to talk about Adian Pitkeev and of course, Eteri Tutberidze. At the 2016 Russian Nationals, Eteri shot this boy full of morphine so he could compete for the title. She made him compete high as a kite and very seriously injured. As a result, he fell on his first jump and fractured his spine. But because he was high on drugs and very likely afraid of his coach's wrath, he powered through the program in visible excruciating pain, fell a few times more, and ended his routine looking to be in absolute agony and panic. Sadly, these clips show one of the last times we'll ever see Adian doing what he loved ever again. The spinal fracture was so bad, it ended his short career. A career full of dreams, promise, and potential. And what did Eteri Tutberidze do after this disaster of a program? She told him to "fix his face" because he "needs to be able to go through it." The commentators were worried sick for Adian and he looked really high in the kiss & cry so of course that's what she did. She also gaslit him w/ the press and pinned all the blame on him after."

[quote] Eteri shot this boy full of morphine so he could compete for the title. She made him compete high as a kite and very seriously injured.

Sorry this is about gymnastics, but I wonder if that's what they did with male gymnast Artur Dalaloyan? He was way too injured to be competing on that Achilles tendon.

I think this is the Pitkeev event they're referring to. It starts at 32:12

Yes, they did. Why should it be different from any year before? In Sochi, every single Russian athlete was doped. Source:

Apparently this has been pretty explosive on Russian Twitter--with lists of skaters permanently injured because of Eteri. I'm inclined to agree that the timing wasn't an accident--Eteri and her methods wouldn't be getting nearly this attention if Valieva had been found positive for doping and not gone to the Olympics. Instead the bomb is dropped right after she skates for the team medal, but before the individual event.

While the Japanese, Canadians and Americans all benefit from putting an end to Eteri's factory, I kind of wonder if some of the other Russian coaches wanted to take her down. She's got kind of a stranglehold on female skaters.

R187 Cute list but clearly cheap sensationalism. Basically, they listed all girls Eteri has ever worked with. Most of the people mentioned had nothing but praise for Eteri, most notably Julia Lipnitsksia, Evgenia Medeveda, Alina Zagitova. Some her most famous girls on the list left Eteri at some point(Medvedeva, Kostonaia, trusova, Turdynbaeva) only to return to her after failing to achieve the same success under a different coach. Polina Turskaya, the number 2 on the list, went on to work for Eteri after her retirement, so there doesn’t seem to be hard feelings involved.

R188 Do you think they can realistically do anything else in Russia (there would be consequences if they did, and doping is compulsory if they want to be in the sport). Nor that it's disturbing the number of athletes who have retired at age 17, 18 because they're already physically chewed out?

R188, pretty amazing that *none* of them can compete anymore whereas skaters from other countries are competing well into their 20s. They return because they don't have the technique to manage with normal adult bodies. That they don't trash Eteri in public means nothing--Eteri holds the cards. And, if you actually read the thread, you'd realize that many of these young women have indirectly criticized Eteri by talking about their injuries and eating disorders.

None of these girls could have done what Mirai Nagasu did and learned and performed triple axels in her mid-20s or win a world medal at that age the way Ashley Wagner did. There's no longevity for them. They get a senior season, two if they're lucky, and that's it.

I've followed figure skating for decades and I can't remember anything like Eteri's burning through skaters and leaving teen girls with permanent injuries.

R187 R188 Well, the girls and their family all know that their careers are going be short (max. 2 - 4 years on the top level) because they are easily replaced once their puberty cannot be delayed any longer. Yet the most talented girls and their families all want to train under Eteri. Same with Valieva who only came to Eteri in 2018.

The thing is, life is harder in Russia generally. Low wages, low life expectancy, alcolism, cold winters, uncertain economy etc. Their standard of living not comparable to the situation in the US or Western Europe at all, and even lower than most of Eastern Europe. Also, because of the low life expectancy, many Russians get married and have babies in their early 20s anyway. They must live faster because their life is shorter on average, especially the for the men. Julia Lipnitskaia became a mom at 22, so I think she has moved on pretty well and found another focus for her life.

‘Most Russians marry in their early 20s, commonly in the first years after they have left university. It is often considered somewhat humiliating to be single for a long time; older unmarried women have particularly low social statuses regardless of their wealth or occupation.’

Update: CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) will meet 8:30pm Beijing time on Sunday to decide Valieva's fate.

Personally, I can't see past them upholding the failed test, mostly because if they didn't, it would set a precedent to allowing coaches to dope minors, but who knows !

R192 Sorry but that's cringe - your argument is that it's okay/tolerable because it would be embarrassing to stay unmarried? Plus skaters have married while still skating all the time.

R191 Life expectancy isn't that low in Russia "The current life expectancy for Russia in 2022 is 72.84 years" - It's higher for women as well. Women definitely live to 40 which is probably the upper limit that they have kids, so it's ridiculous to think that they have to have kids super early because they don't live that long.

R191 You're grabbing at straws. Pre-Eteri, Russian women skated well into their 20s I e. Irina Slutskaya. They were admired and appreciated and made a decent living sine Russia admires figure skating. Russian pairs skater even longer, often as married couples. There's nothing about Russian culture that requires its female skaters to have two year careers and then be crippled.

A lot of what R190 is talking about is detailed in this article about Eteri and her methods. Numerous skaters were, essentially, made to starve themselves. Zagitova, at nineteen, said that she couldn’t keep her weight low enough to do quads. Medvedeva spoke about Eteri didn’t even want her to drink water for fear that it would bloat her up. Her career was ended by a permanent back injury.

The article also shades Johnny Weir, noting that his enthusiastic account of visiting Eteri’s training camp “hasn’t held up well.”

There’s a good argument, I think, that quads should be banned from women’s skating.

[quote]Update: CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) will meet 8:30pm Beijing time on Sunday to decide Valieva's fate.

They're waiting until Sunday night to hold the CAS meeting? I would have thought they'd want to hold it today -- this story has already been going on for several days already.

Out of interest, I looked up Slutskaya. She married her boyfriend, Sergei Mikheev, in August 1999 (age 20). She had a son in 2007 (age 28), then a daughter in 2010 (age 31). The couple divorced after 17 years of marriage. Slutskaya re-married to a businessman and gave birth to a third child in 2019 (age 40!).

Excuse me!!! But 72.84 is below the world's average! What a shithole country Russia has become.

When will Kamila get kicked out of the Olympics? It's been 5 days already.

R196 I loved the Protopopovs. They skated for ages. In one interview when they were older, the husband was speaking in broken English about his love for his wife. He said, "She is my life on the ice and off."

In my memory, it was Oleg who said the above quote. I just watched the video that I posted and it was the female American commenter who said something similar. But, Oleg's sentiments about his wife were still very sweet (the part about singing), just not what I had remembered.

Russian culture unquestioningly rewards dishonesty. It's what America is turning into right in front of our eyes.

R194 No, that’s not what I meant at all. The point is that LIFE PLANNING in Russia is different than in the US. In the US, people might find it a deficit when these girls have such short careers. But in Russia it might be different and finishing one’s athletic career before you turn 20 is not seen as such a problem. The girls can move on to other things like starting a family, which is what many of their peers do. In general, Russian girls currently gain their technical proficiency much faster (they learn quads and triple axels at 13/14 nowadays) than US girls but also burn out faster.

R205 No, sorry, this has only really been happening with Eteri's skaters. Pretty much all other Russian skaters skate into their 20s. In fact, the team event - the pairs and ice dancers are all in their 20s except for the 30-year-old.

R195 Life expectancy has improved a lot from 2005 on. In 2005 it was only 59 (!!!) years for the men, in 2019 it was 68 (which is still terribly low btw). But customs and traditions take much longer longer to change. The grandparents and parents of the young generation are still aware, that their ancestors didn’t live that long.

R195 "At birth there is an equal number of girls and boys; by age 30, men begin to disappear, victims of industrial trauma, war, car accidents. Fewer than a half of them survive until 65, the pension age, so millions of babushkas live alone for the rest of their life," Moskalkova continues.”

So it used to be that, if a woman wanted to spend many years with her husband/baby daddy, she must start a family at a young age.

R207 Cherry picking - funny that you didn't mention that life expectancy for Russian women in 2005 was 72.47. Lack of men? They can still date in their early 20s.

Nah, I don't buy that ambitious women who want a skating career wouldn't put kids off into their 20s. Usually skaters can compete to mid 20s which would be more normal.

Also, it's important to note that there are several examples of Eteri skaters who WANT to carry on skating into their 20s and are unhappy that they can't - they can't because they've gained weight or have injuries. I cannot think of any of them saying that they wanted to retire in their teens. They are ambitious, not prioritising kids.

An article about this being a common practice in Russia, published a couple years ago.

R209 It’s not cherry picky when you fail to join the dots. A couple takes two people (and in Russia only woman and man is acceptable). If men only live to 59 on average in 2009, they must become fathers at 20-22 to even have the chance of seeing their grandchildren graduating high school. The fate of men also affects the fate of women even if the women manage to live 13.5 years longer on average in 2009.

R207 [Nah, I don't buy that ambitious women who want a skating career wouldn't put kids off into their 20s. Usually skaters can compete to mid 20s which would be more normal.]

I don’t doubt that many Russian girls want to skate into their 20s. The thing is, if they don’t mange to do it, there’s no stigma when they just move on and focus on starting a family in Russia. In the West, having a child at 22 seems kind of too early but not so in Russia.

E.g. below is Anna Pogorilaya, the Word Bronze medalist in 2016 (Boston) when she was 18. She married in 2018 at 20 and became a mother in 2022. Nowadays she is doing very well as you can see on her IG. He never trained with Eteri btw.

Maria Sotskova competed in the 2018 Olympics but is retired now. At 21 she is already a one time divorcée.

It's not about a 'stigma'. It's about the skaters themselves telling you over and again in interviews that they want to skate longer but can't. I was just reading an article where Zagitova was frustrated that she couldn't keep up. She said that she would have to lose 3kg(!) to do quads or skate like Carolina Kostner. She said she was trying to improve her artistry so that she could keep on skating.

And even if we assume it's 2005 and a man dies at 59, having kids at 30 would still mean that they're well into adulthood when he dies. Men seriously don't really think ahead to grandkids or care that much about grandkids in general.

I’ve been listening to Karina Manta’s book, On Top of Glass, and she mentioned that when she had an eating disorder, she struggled to complete her moves as a ice dancer, with lower energy and cramping muscles. Some of the articles about this heart medicine are questioning whether it could really help a 15-year old, who should be at the peak of heart health in normal circumstances. But the description of cardiac effects of anorexia makes me wonder.

R216 The skaters are always breathing very hard after they perform. It makes perfect sense that heart medicine that increases endurance and blood flow would help them regardless.

I never understand ballet dancers and athletes blaming their sport/coaches for disordered eating. I think it makes sense to blame the ignorance of the coaches, if they are encouraging extreme dieting, but why blame the coaches for expecting them to maintain a certain weight? Why is that too demanding or unrealistic? What’s wrong with weight standards for young women who have exceptionally high levels of activity? If they are exercising 4-6 hours a day, they should be able to eat a healthy diet and maintain an ideal weight, shouldn’t they? Gymnasts, ballet dancers, ice skaters, etc. They are exceptionally lean, but are they underweight? I say this as a former female athlete who did have some eating issues, but, in retrospect, they were the result of me not realizing how much more food I needed than my non-athlete peers. So I’d get too hungry and binge. I would think that these days all elite athletes whould have good nutritional counseling.

Is there some physical/medical aspect to this that I don’t understand?

R218 Puberty in a nutshell. To perform quads and similar, you have to be as small as possible. Puberty fucks that up because then women grow bigger, breasts and so on. It is also why Eteri is rumoured to be doping her skaters with puberty blocking drugs which also cause health problems- osteoporosis for one thing which is why many of her skaters break bones.

This is why I support the proposal that the ISU raises the minimum age. I think that 18 would be reasonable.

R218, the issue is quads, I think. Unlike other kinds of figure skating skills, they are specifically dependent on having a very light build. And I guess this particular school uses techniques that are build dependent and meant for extremely small people. They also train very heavily from a very young age and take the sport seriously from the age of six or seven, so it’s a lot of hard work that goes into it too.

An article about Yulia Lipnitskaya and notice how she says the problem was not something that happened for just one year, or two or three. She said in 2017 that she had been anorexic for more than 3 years, meaning she already was when she won Olympic Gold in 2014.

R220 I think it's strength to weight ratio - not necessarily being small, short or skinny - though that may help. There are large men who do quads, like Plushenko, Kvitelashvili (over 6 feet), etc.

Harder for larger women due to less strength.

* should have checked first - Kvit is 5ft11 but skaters are usually not tall so he looks like a giant.

Also, he's at the same camp where dopers like Kamila are, so who knows what he takes.

R222, not just strength but the straight up and down body type, which children have as well as men. There are 13 year old boys who do quads too, and 11 year old girls. Plushenko used a different technique whereas Eteri’s is small size dependent. But certainly there are grown women who use muscular strength to land triples, just not usually quads.

I'll take of this, give me the baton!

I was just thinking - why don't they just whack or slash or obstruct their opponents, like though do in the good old USA?

* like THEY do....

Looks like developing hips at puberty is another negative: "Experts have noted that very thin, narrow-hipped female bodies have an optimal strength-to-weight ratio, as their slight frames make the rotation required for a quad jump easier to achieve, while compensating for the decreased leg power and height male skaters can achieve in the jump."

Hips mean that women can't contract their form enough in order to generate enough power to spin. Male skaters are able to generate more power from the ground up so they have more time in the air to rotate.

Eteri's skaters rotate early which can risk back injury and athletes must deal with impact forces equal to many times their body weight when landing a quad jump – a dangerous prospect when their bodies are still developing.

R228, also a “healthy BMI” by the charts at age 15 may or may not be really a healthy BMI. A girl on the late developing side might have a BMI of less than 16 at that age and still be healthy. But using adult BMI charts, a BMI under 18 is underweight.

R229 it's not really about BM which can be controlled at any age. It's about the profound changes that women go through at puberty. Hips for example - BMI has nothing to do with that.

But hips vary a lot. Some women have narrow ones. And men have broad shoulders - some more than others. Yuzuru's are wider than Nathan's - wonder if that's an issue with men, or if the extra strength makes it not matter. Men certainly have more muscle mass to hurl into the air and muscle weighs more than fat.

I still think strength to weight ratio is important - you don't see many hulking or fat quadsters.

R230, I’ve read that the team even prevents the girls from drinking water at times, because they’re concerned about every pound. Someone upthread asked why they can’t just maintain their weight. But a weight of 95 lbs at 15 at 5’4 would be considered healthy using a BMI calculator; not so to be the same weight at an older age. Of course it would not be healthy for everyone; I imagine that affects how the team talks to parents.

The water prevention story makes it sound like Eteri is just sadistic. So does the story of Eteri putting a girl in the trash can because her lousy practice meant she was garbage.

It also suggests that Eteri is stupid. An athlete would perform better if not practically dying of thirst - and the weight woudn't be enough to make any difference.

I hope this brings the maleficent bitch down.

R233, I don't think that it's an accident that the first real reporting on this scandal came from Russian journalists. They are the ones who first identified Kamila as the skater who had failed a drug test. Many people must be angry with Eteri.

of course! do you even have to ask?

I don't understand the dehydration thing- I get major foot/calf/thigh charleyhorses when I'm dehydrated, and it's not intentional dehydration.

........

Just like Johnny. Another dumb cunt.

she looks like a cheater.

Allegedly the Protopovs were proponents of drinking their own urine because they thought it helped their skating.

Adam Rippon is a douche. Like a Buddy Coke with skating lessons.

R238, Adam was blaming Valieva’s coaches, not Valieva. A quote: “The IOC’s ban on Russia’s participation in the Olympics was NOT strict enough. I believe that the ROC athletes are doing what they’re told in an effort to please their coaches and federation. I blame those in charge.“

This Eteri woman looks and acts like a classic brothel Madame.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with what Rippon Tweeted.

Compact, muscular skaters have the easiest time with jumps--Nathan Chen's build, Shoma Uno, Midori Ito, Mirai Nagasu--though there are also some thinner, leggier skaters who manage them like Yuzuru Hanyu. Hanyu's very thin through the torso, but is a little wider hipped than a lot of men, so lower center of gravity, which helps with balance.

What amazes me about Mirdoris jumps are how high she gets and how big they are, especially considering her leg wrap.

R222 Eteri‘s girls don’t really do proper quads like men because they cheat the take off by prerotating 1 turn on the before taking off. Someone with good technique like Hanyu only prerotates 1/4 turn on the toepick jumps and 1/2 turn on the edge jumps. This has been the standard of what constitutes proper technique before Eteri came on the scene. But prerotation is a grey zone so far, as there are no rules that sanction excessive forms of it.

Not sure what kind of propaganda R191 is trying to push, but a young skater making it to the elite levels at 14/15 with enough skills to win Olympic or World gold by a wide margin and then burning out after just 2-3 years is NOT the norm. And yet the last 4-5 Russian women to medal at the Olympics have not lasted more than a couple seasons. It stinks to high hell, and the fact that so many people are playing along pretending otherwise is inexcusable.

It looks like Kamila doesn't have shoe laces on her boots. It seems like that would be dangerous.

R247 It is the norm in Russia NOW. The rest of the world is lagging behind. A reason why these girls’ careers are so short is the rapid technical advancement of upcoming younger girls (and NOT only the physical demise of the older girls). Like Zagitova could not do quads or triple axels, so she would never hit the podium in Russia if she compete today anyway. It’s to late for Zagitova to learn quads and triple axels at 16 when girls at 13 do it more easily. There are tons of young girls with their parents waiting in line…The success of team Tuberidze has elevated the popularity of figure skating so that her retired champions a great compensation after their retirement. And now it’s not only Eteri who teaches quads and triple axels. There is an abundance of girls from different schools who can do these difficult jumps now.

[quote] It looks like Kamila doesn't have shoe laces on her boots. It seems like that would be dangerous.

Oh no, is Kamila about to pull a Tonya Harding at Lillehammer and break down because of boot lace issues?

Don’t you dare to forget about me, my OGM, my triple triple and hip injury.

[quote]It’s to late for Zagitova to learn quads and triple axels at 16 when girls at 13 do it more easily.

And yet Mirai could learn it in her twenties.

[quote]There is an abundance of girls from different schools who can do these difficult jumps now.

And I'm sure none of them are being doped!

R252 I liked Mirai and appreciated her efforts but she won nothing after learning the triple axel. Her skating had to many other deficit s. Her triple axel was very telegraphed and borderline underrotated. It is no comparison to the way the triple axel is just another jump for these younger Russian girls.

Borderline underrotated... is still borderline. She did it and was able to learn it in her twenties.

And let's not pretend like the Russian girls' jumps are all amazingly rotated.

Kwan should've had Lipinski clubbed in the knee.

R255, don't think Daddy Kwan didn't think about it. He tried it the best he could though by starting the whole, "Tara Flutz" thing. That of course ended up backfiring on him.

R249, please. These Russian girls are doing miracles then burning out after 2-3 years. Alysa Liu can land a triple axel and quad LUTZ and is in her 4th season of competition at 16.

There's nothing normal or organic about the Russian quad factory. Eteri doesn't have some magic formula--it's old school doping and anorexia.

R257 Let’s see what Liu can do at 16 then. So far she hasn’t practiced ANY quads and the triple axel seems to be barely there and very inconstant (underrated and fall most of the time).

The ISU and judges are going to have to start cracking down on the pre-rotations. Those are triples coming out of a spin and because the prerotation is going to limit the speed at which the skater goes into the jump, it's a technique that's not sustainable post-adolescence--the size/strength ration just won't be there. There's a reason that the men don't do it this way.

Nathan Chen kept adding quads through his late teens and post hip surgery. A healthy skater has a possibility of recovering from some injuries. Eteri's girls don't really recover--puberty blockers and starvation aren't good for the body.

While Bradie Tennell is out injured now, she was actually able to overcome an earlier serious back injury and it was in her late teens and early 20s, post injury, that she went to the Olympics and won nationals twice. She was doing triple-triples at an age where former world champion Evgenia Medvedeva's permanent back injury means she can only do two types of jumps.

Eteri's girls don't recover from injury and stick around long enough to even have a chance at picking up new skills. Some of the other Russian coaches have had older (i.e. 20) skaters on the world circuit.

R258, yes if she's not doping she's probably not going to miraculously land her quads and triple axels every time.

Or wait, let me guess: she lacks the special Russian gene that developed in the last decade?

Liu grew three inches in a year and then pulled off a triple axel at the NHK last fall. We don't know what she would have done at Nationals since she withdrew from the free skate because of COVID.

But, yes, puberty does things, but some skaters come out with skills. Liu's doing fine for someone who's had a recent growth spurt. I think her issue will be whether she wants to continue doing what her skate dad wants.

r259, the problem is they aren't consistent about calling prerotations or under rotations. One year Ashley Wagner went out and thought she nailed a free skate in China during the Grand Prix. You could see her making the reservation for the final with Rafa in kiss-and-cry. Then the scores come, and it's revealed that the technical controller dinged every jump, and she fell to 5th.

At 2016 worlds, they knocked every Japanese skater for underrotations (it's a miracle Miyahara still managed to be in the Top 6), but allowed Med and Pogosplat to get away with a few (to be fair, Pogo was usually a victim of her own overrotation), not to mention Wagner. This morning both Chock/Bates and Beaudry/Sorenson (side note: he is breathtakingly hot) had little stumbles on nonessential elements and didn't seem to get dinged for them (though I think Chock and Bates were unofficially marked down for it, and that's why they are 3 points off the podium rather than 1.5-2).

Well said r262. They just make it up as they go along and give it to whoever they want to give it to. CoP has made things worse because they have more room to hide now.

R262 In Boston 2016 Ashley profited the most from tech calls. With a few carrots her PCS would have suffered, too..Pogo had much better roasted jumps and really deserved the silver over Ashley.

But I found the tech calls at Europeans and Olympics (not ice dance) pretty consistent for everyone. They also take lots of time to review many elects and so far their reviews and corrections have made sense to me.

R263 Yuna’s own choreographer David Wilson said that the tech calls in Sochi 2014 were ok and Adelina had the better jumps. He said they overlooked a few things with Adelina but Yuna’s 2nd lutz was ‘clearly undertotated’ but got no call.

Before her breakdown, Gracie Gold had the most beautiful high, fully rotated jumps. She had everything but belief. She could have reinvigorated American skating. Hers is the biggest what if ever.

[quote] She had everything but belief.

The most important thing, and something that’s hard to train for 😞

Oh, Pogosplat, man I loved Pogosplat. Hell women's skating was kind of fun to watch even a few years ago when Gracie Gold really did have the skills to compete for gold. Frank Carroll was not the right coach for her. She couldn't do ice princess and he didn't seem to know how to get her to be less of a head case. It was so clear that she would have won that Worlds if she hadn't had the worst free skate possible and then she just could not compete.

At least my expectations for American women are non-existent this time. Some clean skates would be nice--Mariah Bell is lovely when she's on, but she's like Adam Rippon and Jason Brown, being there at all is the win. Karen Chen might manage a single good skate. We'll see what jumps Liu is managing right now.

It was just more interesting when skaters stuck around for a few years. Medved was around for a few. It's really the Eteri Quad era that's destroyed longevity.

I did not like Gracie Gold when she was competing a few years ago however that one interview she gave after coming off a terrible skate (at worlds?) where she basically said she needed to evaluate if she was good for anything and was a disappointing failure was painful and terrible.

R256 are you suggesting Tara didn't' flutz? I like Tara even more so now as a commentator, but her skating skills were so poor you don't even need to be an expert to see that, her jumps were tiny, literally just a few inches above the ice, and she can't control the edge because her legs wobbled a lot, it would be a miracle for her to know which edge she was on before taking off!

watch the video, pay attention to the height of her jumps and her leg on lutz at 1:34

forgot to mention, Tara won the gold, rightfully so. Michelle Kwan skated tentatively that night, and her skating lacked the spark, if Kwan had skated like she did in the national with freedom and joy, she would have won!

R269 where did you get the idea that I said she didn't flutz? I said Danny was responsible for starting that whole campaign and it backfired on him.

R271 Danny didn't start it, I am old enough to remember the USENET days, Tara's "poor" technique was a well known fact among users there.

Danny did start it by going around and saying it to everyone who would listen hoping it would get traction. It backfired on him as people started pointing out Michelle's technique.

I said he started the campaign, not that he was the first to point out Tara's poor jumps. Anyone who ever watched her skate could see that from the start.

I couldn't have been the only one wishing that Lipinski would fall on her ass in that Nagano free skate.

Definitely not, R275, definitely not.

Lol r275. I sure was.

I remember my homeroom teacher hating Lipinski, who she called "Lip-stinky." She got onto the computer (dial-up in those days) that was in the room and checked the results. She was so pissed.

R273 can you tell me more about Michelle's technique before 1998, what glaring issues she needed to fix? Kwan might not be a textbook, but her technique was solid at the time, she had a growth spurt in 96~97 season which affected her a lot, she regained her jumps back before 98 season. In her long program at 98 Olympics, the triple flip was not good, she barely finished the rotation in the air, and her second lutz was suspicious, it was a flutz, but that happened to a lot skaters for their second lutz, the legs get tired and it's hard for them to hold the edge, Kwan was not a known flutzer, in her later career, she still had lutz jumps even though the flutz came out more frequently.

Like I said, Kwan skated too cautiously at Olympics and it definitely affected her, this is evident from her changing the program just for the Olympics, in the nationals, she did a triple flip in the short program for her second triple and she did it beautifully, but once arrived in Japan, she replaced it with an easy triple toe, that said a lot, she just wanted a safe skate and nothing else.

Have we discussed how awful she looks in her outfit, she’s covered in bruises, wearing gloves, her tights are pulled over her skates, and her physique does not work with the fit of her outfit, despite being slight she has a masculine upper body.

This girl is a fucking disaster.

R280 I know, right? Eteri would never….

Here's what I'm understanding: CAS will only rule on whether her suspension should be reinstated or not, not on the merits of her doping infraction nor whether the team event medals should stand or not.

If CAS rules that her suspension should be reinstated, RUSADA can appeal but that effectively would make it too late for her to be able to skate in the women's singles event.

The decision on the team event medals would be made by the ISU after a final judgement on her anti-doping case has been made.

I hope I've got this right (it's a bit confusing). CAS will be meeting in 2 hours' time, and they say we will know the outcome on Monday.

R282 Id be surprised if they don't let her skate. They always get away with it.

I guess she won't be skating tomorrow.

One of the lawyers that will judge Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva’s doping case at the Beijing Olympics on Sunday is an American who was once picked by Maria Sharapova’s legal team for her appeal over a similar performance-enhancing drug.

WADA has said that it will ask its independent intelligence and investigations department to look into the coaches, doctors and other adults surrounding Valieva (this came hours after the IOC called for her entourage to be investigated).

This is going to be interesting.

Russians are still lagging, their doping methods are so 1980s, they should take a good look of other countries, the ones with athletes suffering from asthma and ADHD...

R286 how do we know that the Russians don't have TUEs too? TUEs are private and the hacker leak that released TUEs was by Crazy Bears, a Russian-backed hacking group. I'd imagine that they'd have no interest in releasing any for Russian athletes..

Ooops, it's actually Fancy Bears and Cozy Bears, the hacking groups that are linked to Russian intelligence services.

Bad news for the other team event competitors: RUSADA will investigate the original doping case against Valieva because it happened at the Russian national championships.

betcha they will clear her so that they can keep the team event gold. I'm not sure if appeals can be made if they do though.

R287 lol, why bother with hacking? have we not heard the stores like who overcame the childhood asthma and became a world class swimmer, or how parents later found out their ADHD troubled kids are actually sport genius! The stories like these used to be reported on your local tv news or USA Today, but not any more, ever wonder why?

R290 that still doesn't tell us if Russian athletes use TUEs similarly or not..

R289, how can Russia be allowed to decide what happens with the Team Event medals? That's like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. It should be decided by a panel of non-Russian independent investigators.

Kamila is on the draw for the short program, we shall see if she skates.

Re: the bruises and speculation about that - Medvedeva did tell a documentary that Eteri once pulled her around the ice in anger because she kept falling over. But Eteri is also on record saying that she found it hard being a coach because she couldn't slap her pupils like she does her daughter (Diana Davis, the ice dancer). So she doesn't go that far, I don't think. (Not because she doesn't want to.)

CAS have released a statement saying that they deliberated from 8:34pm to 2:10am Beijing time and a decision is expected about 2pm Monday Beijing time.

I bet she will skate. I can’t believe the Olympic committee has the guts to throw out the gold medal favorite

She'll skate and it just signals to the Russians they were absolutely justified in doing it and will continue to do so.

There definitely is disagreement—they deliberated six hours and still couldn’t decide? R297, I think they would have no problem allowing her to skate except for this dilemma. I think there have to be repercussions, whatever they are, or there will be yelling across the world.

No way she can skate and keep it credible. The toothpaste is out of the tube and it won't go back in.

Uh, the IOC have given certificates to the Canadians who finished fourth in the team event but have held off on giving out the medals? That doesn't make much sense.

Did Kwan expect to win in Nagano?

Do with think Pootey is pressuring Xi?

R298, apparently the Russians kicked up a lengthy fuss by claiming that the test was somehow invalid. So the proceedings were something of a mini-trial.

Yes, R301, she thought she had it in the bag.

Anyone hear any inside info about what the decision will be? I know, Ii know, it’s a shot in the dark.

R305 I just read a WSJ piece where they asked lawyers with experience of these things and they said that her path is very narrow. So she is likely to have the suspension reinstated.

Thanks r306. Logic and precedence dictate that she will be banned and the Russians will lose their team medal. But logic sometimes doesn’t figure into figure skating.

Russia sucks.

If the IOC took the gold away from poor little Radacun in 2000, they should ban Valieva. Clean sport is clean sport. Anti-doping test labs are certified, to, like, avoid disputes whether results are legitimate.

The bigger issue is how Russia, an inbred race with congenital iron deficiency, is expected to keep up athletically with, like, normal people?

If they allow her to skate and her team results to stand, they'll make a mockery of the entire anti-doping campaign. She's gotta go. Same if an athlete from any other country tested positive.

The future of artistic skating was set in stone after the sham way the corruption in 2002 was handled. Barely a slap on the wrist to everyone involved and then a scoring system that was supposed to "fix" the problem, but just buried it even deeper. The "anonymous judging" farce only lasted a decade.

I re-watched Kamila's FS in the team competition and I feel so conflicted. It was beautiful. But, you can't have cheaters.

I can't believe that Nathan Chen won the Gold Medal. I find Nathan so lackluster. His Elton John routine was absolutely meh. Nathan leans forward in the air in his jumps instead of being vertical in the air. He is slow on the ice (especially during his spins). His shirt rode up and showed his stomach several times, which is really sloppy.

Stupid question but I am curious, who is deciding this? The IOC? A figure skating organization? A special committee?

The Court of Arbitration for Sport

Thanks, r314. Is this the same organization that has ruled on previous bans?

Flash back, Zagitova's brilliant skating in 2018, her 3Lz+3Lo was the standard for the high difficulty, before 3A and 4S/4T took over in the world stage!

The whole reason they are competing as ROC is because of their drugging. They did it again. They should be banned for three years.

If they let her skate, they will be making a complete mockery of the Olympics.

That said, she is a brilliant skater and it’s sad she couldn’t have a clean career

R303 I guess they are arguing why the test took more than 6 weeks to complete while others less than a week, the EURO championships was held in January, and test results were released in a week. The sample in question was from last December, why it took 6 weeks and why it was released right after the team event was completed

the test took so long because of covid cases in the lab.. that's the official excuse at least...

At least they should be banned from competing in womens singles for 4 years. And lots of surprize testing throughout the year for the rest of their skaters. Eteri and co must be destroyed and a good long ban is the only way to piss off Rusfed enough to make it happen.

R319 they said that last week, at the time they thought the samples from Russian nationals were sent to a lab in Sweden and those from Euro championships were tested in Germany thus the difference, but it turned out both samples were tested in the same lab in Sweden, it's hard to use Covid delay as an excuse.

dear god, the russian govt has been putting up posters in Moscow to declare her innocence and their support of her. propaganda against 'the evil west'.

Probably some kind of pay off/cover up of dirty samples not being tested at all, time for another investigation.

R322 Predictable and predicted.

Valieva is cleared to skate? Wow, I genuinely did not see that coming. JFC.

AP link

Okay, since I'm fairly sure that all of Eteri's skaters are doping, it does seem fair for the best one to skate if we can't ban all of them.

Gross. Well, she can still lose her medal after the investigation. Enjoy it while you can, doper bitch.

The guy said the verdict should come within the hour.

(what did she have in her system? I didn't read the whole thread.)

R328 The problem with that is that it's RUSADA who investigates the failed test..

oops dopey NBC hasn't mentioned the verdict yet

I wonder how NBC will spin this, ladies figure skating is the marquee event of winter Olympics, the taglines for their promo? positive, cleared, 15, quad, scandal...?

Eet was nor my fault. The sour cream in my nightly borscht had a "chalky unsertaste"!

Fuck Russia. That 15 year old caught in doping can continue to compete with no consecquences. Russia can cheat and lie and dope as much as they want.

I hope the judges underscore her performance on purpose. That doped up bitch shouldn't even be competing. Fuck Russia. Fuck this shit.

I was watching a live feed, the camera was set up right in front of the continental hotel in Beijing, a bunch of kids were playing in the snow then suddenly some loud chats in Russian off the camera, in seconds, "cleared to skate" news was out on Twitter.

Told you theyd clear her to skate. They always get away with it and everyone always backs down from making them be held accountable.

"We have investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

Well, Tara and Johnny slammed the decision loud and clear and said that as teen elite skaters they were very aware that they had to be very careful about what medications they took.

A smart coach would start embryos on performance enhancing drugs now, in time for the 2038 Winter Olympics. The only skaters doing quints will be lab grown and unparented. I’m sure Eteri and her Dr Feelgood is on it.

Valieva had tested clean at Beijing and at European Championships a few weeks ago. Who knows if the sample that tested positive from the Russian Championships wasn’t tampered with or had a false positive? We don’t even know what the chain of custody was and I certainly don’t believe the test was delayed due to a “covid backlog” at the Swedish lab. Everyone is ready to condemn Valieva and her coaching team before a complete investigation. What if she’s innocent in all this? Meh, let the girl compete.

Such BS the IOC is saying they wont hold ceremonies for any events in which Valieva medals in... thats just here way of trying to bury and hide that theyre allowing something they shouldnt.

They just don't want the visuals, but they are fine to let it be otherwise apparently.

Russia should not be allowed to compete since they cheat at a state level. This isn't an isolated incident. The IOC is useless.

R341 must be another Russian bot. Nobody can defend her. She has been caught doping and yet gets to compete. It is morally wrong and sets a dangerous precedent.

The US and other Western countries should all pull out. Make it a hollow victory.

Yeah r341 sounds like Russia propaganda, throwing everything at the wall "what if THIS happened? Or this?? There's no way to be sure!" to see what sticks.

The decision is a travesty and serves as a stamp of approval for Russias cheaters to keep doping generation after generation of young athletes.

The other skaters should walk out in protest.

Well, who would ever have seen THAT decision coming!

I hope the little bitch gets booed during her skates for being the lil doper and cheater that she is.

This is why we should have never banned Tonya Harding for life. She would take care of these little brats the old-fashioned way.

I would love for a little Harding-style justice to head Eteri's and her skating brother's way.

*Skating BROTHEL

R341 - it's obvious the Russian girls dope. They have Dr Skate-good at the boards! Recenty a skater took a hard fall and he didn't even bother to check her for concussion. He's technically an anesthesiologist but he was in trouble for doping twelve skaters in some other sport, I forgert which -- and he's trying to get a patent on one of the noble gases, to be used as a sports enhancer.

Those girls have an inordinate amount of bone fractures - delaying puberty messes up your bones, causes osteoporosis. There an immense amount of evidence that this coach is abusive and her camp routinely dopes all it's skinny little girl prodigies (they used to say Trusova was an exception because his father put his foot down -- but she left, went to Plushenko, went back -- now has some kind of "fracture" I believe. Hmmm.

All their hair should be sampled for historical drug use. Wonder if we'd start seeing a lot of bald girls with wigs on the ice.

Force Judy's reds down this little bitch's throat and send her onto the ice.

r183 do you have a clip?

Coach Eteri even said in an interview they had found a legal alternative to modonium after it was banned. This drug they found with Valieva is a metabolic cousin on meldonium and is commonly used, despite being banned since 2015.

NYT "This is not the first time trimetazidine has been used by Olympians. In 2014, the star Chinese swimmer Sun Yang tested positive for it and was suspended for three months. The Russian bobsledder Nadezhda Sergeeva was disqualified and banned for eight months after testing positive for trimetazidine at the 2018 Games"

All of the other skaters should refuse to compete in this farce of a legitimate sporting competition.

R357 And just leave the Russians sweep the podium, even if you can get everyone to agree? That's unrealistic, not going to happen. They skate for years, they want a shot.

So am I to understand that if she medals, the IOC will not award her—or anyone—a medal? If so, she needs to just drop out. She’s just damaging everyone else’s experience.

What do Tara and Johnny want?

R359 The medals would be given out once her anti-doping case is resolved.

Tara wants to kick her in the cuntbone. Johnny wants her sequins and her quads.

Eteri looks like a blond Olivia Munn.

I think the tights worn over the shoe are to elongate the leg, and that’s why Kamila does it to make her legs appear even longer and give better line.

When she lands her jumps her leg doesn’t go all the way back behind her, but almost to the side which gives the leg a better turnout and lends itself to a ballet dancer which in turn makes her skating look better and her leg longer.

[quote] What do Tara and Johnny want?

I’m sure Johnny worships her.

Valieva's defense was that she was taking care of her grandfather and they drank from the same glass... I hope this grandfather was at the nationals because he lives in Kazan normally, and the drug is in your system for 5-7 hours.

They also got an Orthodox priest to 'guide' her. Pic linked.

Hah maybe they can wait to see if Russia invades Ukraine before 'deciding'. (Honestly, that would seem spiteful, but if anything ever deserved spite, it would be an unprovoked war of aggression against another country.

Yes. It's a nation of cheaters, meddlers and schemers. They are further tainting the Olympic games for the world. Just like Trump they will get away with cheating the system and carry on with their underhanded tactics. Congrats.

Both Tara and Johnny said she should be suspended that allowing her to skate would leave "a scar on our sport" to quote Tara.

It was on NBC, so I'm sure it's on the site.

Wait a second, did they say she can skate but IOC will not award her any medals if she wins? If true, then what's the point of skating there?

R370 The medals will be sent out when her doping case is officially concluded.

R371, That really sucks for the American and Japanese skaters who are expecting medals in the team event, and for any of the women not named Kamila who may medal. Talk about diminishing their Olympic experience.

I wish someone would do a list removing ALL the Russian medalists and bumping up every one who lost to a Russian. I think the day has come where we assume the Russians cheat and simply adjust the list. We can call it the Non Cheating Medals.

This whole mess underscores the selfishness and overall bad sportsmanship of the Russian team.

GRATE AND WISE DESISION MADE BY THE UNBIASSED COMITEA

R375, Ugh, has that asshole weighed in yet? Wouldn't surprise me if he does.

Johnny Weir on Twitter.

[quote] The sample in question was from last December, why it took 6 weeks and why it was released right after the team event was completed

Why does it matter?

These testing labs have extraordinary security to prevent any possible tampering with the results

[quote] That really sucks for the American and Japanese skaters who are expecting medals in the team event.

I doubt any American or Japanese skater is expected to medal

Can't we just open the Olympics to every drug imaginable? That would be fun

Some philosopher argued that a while ago on the premise that there will always be a better mouse for every mousetrap.

I think a better metaphor is cleaning your house: you clean it even though you know it's going get dirty again.

This is a joke, if she can’t medal right away then remove her, what’s the point of having a competition with no clear winner, it’s incredibly unfair to the other athletes.

This is what happens when you allow a country like China that gifted the world COVID a chance to host Olympic Games.

[quote] Ugh, has that asshole weighed in yet? Wouldn't surprise me if he does.

Yes, he weighs 239.

R382, there are so many organizations involved in this corruption, though, that it’s hard to say if China had a special role in this.

Why in the hell is this grayed out.

[quote] Why does it matter? These testing labs have extraordinary security to prevent any possible tampering with the results

R378 That's a really stupid comment. All police departments has strict protocols in place to prevent misconduct, so we should trust the police reports!

The Russians were supposed to mark the sample 'Expedite' because the athlete was likely to go to the Olympics, but they didn't mark it that way so the lab did not prioritize its analysis.

You guys, it's impossible to have a "false positive" doping test for a banned substance you dumb dumbs. The lab has to screen, then confirm, then re-confirm test results. The confirmatory assay quantifies the amount of drug present, it has to physically be in the sample in a measurable amount for the test to give a titre.

Is Valieva's grandpa, like, eating spoonfuls of the drug? How the heck do you get it in your system from sharing the same drinking glass?

Almost every time Sharapova played a match after doping positive, someone in the audience screams out "meldonium bitch! ". I hope someone in this crowd does the same thing, but then again this is in China and they won't allow an audience

They are taking nobody’s chances away by letting her skate. There will a an additional skater allowed to qualify formte long program. Once her case is finished, the will announce the final placements. Eliminating her results in case she is found guilty is much much easier, when revoking a disqualification in case she is found to be innocent in the end.

r388, who's "you guys?" We're all pretty much in agreement with you, except for one poster who probably just woke up in Minsk.

Surprised at Johnnys mature response.

Also, Valieva was sharing a drinking glass with her grandpa PEAK COVID?? They don't live together. I mean, I know things are tough in Russia, but you can't afford to clean another drinking glass to avoid killing your grandpa with COVID.

R389, They are taking away their chances of being photographed on a podium with a medal around their necks. I don’t know what that is worth in endorsements and speaking fees, but I’m guessing it’s close to seven figures. That’s bullshit.

Told you this would happen. And now NO ONE gets a moment of seeing their flag go up or having a ceremony if she's even on the podium.

Literally the dumbest thing is always bending to them. This is exactly why they keep doing it, they continue to be told it will be overlooked so why would they stop?

The Russians have been banned at two or three Olympics now but then still been allowed to send a team.

How many other athletes have been banned for less and gotten their medals taken away from them?

Batter UP!

R389 Honestly, it's a waste of time here! Let's just assume she accidentally took the banned substance (eating the contaminated food in her grandparents home), she was not taking PED or other banned drugs, so she will not be punished for that (doping). However, she/her team still needs to take the responsibility for the oversight violation (positive test). In previous cases, if the athletes were found in violation of rules but not actively participating in doping, they would receive 3-month or 6-month ban instead of 3 years.

Her positive test result was from Russian national championship ended in Dec 25th, even a retroactive 3-month ban would be effective till Feb 25th, she might be eligible for the World championships, but there is no way to get her scores in Beijing rectified, also she needs to forfeit her medal from Euro championships, which was held in January.

It might be a legal procedure to allow her to skate, but IOC should make it clear to the press that she will not medal in Beijing regardless of the outcome of her investigation, and her scores in team event will be forfeited.

What a coincidence—she drank from the same glass of her grandpa who just happened to be taking a drug known to be used by athletes to enhance training…

All the Russians use drugs. To pretend otherwise is pure idiocy

R397, even that explanation makes no sense. This drug is administered as a pill. Did her grandfather spit out the entire pill into the glass before she drank from it? A microscopic amount of the drug would be washed out of her system almost immediately. Indeed, she must have been taking it regularly for even a trace amount of it to have been found, since it is fully metabolized within 5-7 hours.

I blame IOC for the mess here, they did a poor job to explain why she is allowed to skate and what it really means. They could explain it's a legal requirement since she won the appeal, they have to let her skate, but that doesn't mean her scores will be accepted or her placement will be eligible for a medal, it all depends on the investigation in the months to come. Many people including a lot posters here on DL thought she is all cleared (of doping). No, not at all! The official investigation of her doping case has not even fully started yet. If they find her guilty of doping, or she was not doping but lack of oversight, she would receive the punishment, and only then IOC will be able to make a decision on whether her scores can be accepted for medal consideration.

Isn't it zero tolerance for everyone else?

As someone else said above it sucks that she'll even stay in it and perhaps deprive others of a ceremony and recognition.

[quote] This is what happens when you allow a country like China that gifted the world COVID a chance to host Olympic Games.

From a typical deplorable. Hey, idiot - Russia has been doping for years. Has nothing to do with China, fool. Now go masturbate in front of your hero Putin.

"Russia has been banned from the most recent three Olympics after it was revealed that it conducted a state-sponsored doping scheme at the 2014 Games in Sochi, Russia. But Russian athletes have been allowed to compete with special permission as so-called neutral athletes."

So let me get this right, I can smoke anything I want and still compete as long as I'm with the Russian Olympic Committee...?

Yeah, this is one thing we can't blame on China. This is all on the Russians, the coaches, the young woman, the IOC, the ISU, and that useless arbitration review board.

Adam Rippon is letting it rip, no prisoners. His tweets are worth a read.

More Adam.

I actually want to see her skate because she is a gorgeous skater.

Who cares if she’ll grow up to be a mental and physical wreck.

Why will and investigation take “months”?

I would be so mortified to be her! How can she even show her face on the ice!

Kamila will be skating the short programme 9:52 pm Beijing time / 8:52 am ET

Group 5 order:

CHEN Karen USA

VALIEVA Kamila ROC

YOU Young KOR

TRUSOVA Alexandra ROC

SHCHERBAKOVA Anna ROC

SAKAMOTO Kaori JPN

Yuna Kim commented. With just a plain black picture..

"yunakim

Athlete who violates doping cannot compete in the game. This principle must be observed without exception. All players' efforts and dreams are equally precious."

Olympics Organization pro-doping provided you’re under the age of 15 and pretend your shocked. Cool. Guess we already know where they’re going to stand on chicks with dicks competing as women at the summer games. Fun times.

Next Olympic Games all the athletes from there are going to be 13.

This is a sham.

Just get your dictator to tell the committee that if they rule against his skater, he will launch the invasion of Ukraine. You will get what you want.

The Russians in the crowd are cheering her, naturally. They're so tacky and selfish.

Trusova has just scored lower than Kamila. Eteri didn't sit with her in the kiss and cry so Kamila is still the 'chosen one'. Schcherbakova up next..

Shcherbakova wonderful but Valieva still no. 1.

Having a hard time feeling sympathy for her.

The Japanese, Sakamoto, in third place, a good result for her against at least one of Eteri's doped up bots.

Finland's Jenni Saarinen qualifies in 25th place which she would not have had the IOC not said that if Valieva qualified, the 25th placed skater should also qualify..

[quote] How can she even show her face on the ice!

Russians have no shame.

[quote]Kamila Valieva with a major mistake on her triple axel — messy with a big step out — and a shaky performance overall.

Is this because she's not hepped up on drugs anymore?

R423 Drugs are mostly about helping athletes train longer and harder in off-competition. Or changing their bodies.

Official top results of the short:

VALIEVA Kamila 82.16

SHCHERBAKOVA Anna 80.20

SAKAMOTO Kaori 79.84

TRUSOVA Alexandra 74.60

HIGUCHI Wakaba 73.51

The judging was just as corrupt as the officiating. Both Japanese girls were better, but the technical specialist found magical underrotation calls for Higuchi after she dared land a perfect triple axel. But nothing about the Russian girls horrid pre-rotations and edge changes during the combinations (which should result in a huge downgrade).

Kick this WWE equivalent out of the Olympics.

R423 yes

Valieva could sit on her ass for 15 seconds in the middle of her program and still win. They reward risk over a clean routine.

My ass ees doped too! Ees power ass!

R426, Adam is on the same page as you.

Apparently (this is information from Russian sources) as a part of the testing process Kamila disclosed that she was taking a non-banned substance, Hypoxen, which is also meant to treat "heart conditions." So she knew that she was being given drugs even though, according to the team doctor, she had no medical problems.

R431 I thought she got it while drinking from her grandfather's glass?

Some French tennis player once claimed he tested positive for cocaine because he kissed a model at a disco. He still got suspended, and tennis is a pretty forgiving sport where doping is concerned (Hi Rafa).

R433 two years ago, then No. 1 men's double player Robert Farah was tested positive for banned drugs, he said he got it from eating contaminated pork in some Colombian food market and ITF later accepted his claim, he was suspended for a few months though.

R432, that was the claim about the banned drug that should have gotten her barred from competing. My point about the other drug was that clearly she was used to being given non-necessary drugs by her team doctor. It’s obvious that she was knowingly going along with some PED program.

I am pretty sure these days all athletes including those high school ones are taking "supplements", the "supplements" used to vitamins and minerals to help them grow bigger and stronger, but not any more, they are also taking all sorts of booster pills. I was watching some documentary about high school wrestlers and football players, they had those pills and capsules after meals and training, it's unbelievable!

But why is that bad, R432? If the drug isn’t banned why shouldn’t she take it? Or is it a very new or obscure drug that is clearly inappropriate, but just hasn’t been banned YET? Even so, that might be a subtle distinction for a 15 year-old who is used to doing what she is told to do.

If her laces don't fit, you must acquit!

R437, the team she is on is extremely intense about everything; training, diet. The heart medicine may actually be protective for her in some way if she is at risk of heart damage from overtraining. But it could also temporarily mask signs of heart damage that should not be ignored. Also TMZ has potential side effects, including anorexia and Parkinson’s disease. I started reading about Christy Heinrich as a result of Google searches related to this.

What a little brat -- Valieva refuses to speak to reporters after SP. Consider for a moment that it was the Russian media who lost their shit because Naomi Osaka wouldn't speak to the media...

The other skaters should've 'accidentally' knocked into her in the practice skate.

Look, Valieva is a brilliant skater, it isn't as if the TMZ turned her from a mediocre skater into a brilliant one. As I understand it, the TMZ increases endurance by opening the blood vessels and allowing more blood to flow, affecting breathing. But it won't put skills where they weren't before.

It's nonsense to pretend that the TMZ turned her into a gold medal contender. And, the substance has not been found in subsequent tests at the Olympics.

Just the same, Russia should pay a price for refusing to allow a young skater stand or fall on her own efforts. They go on doing this because they go on getting away with it. The sport itself becomes debased, as well as the skaters.

It sucks to punish the skater to punish the country, and much as I would like to see her skate and believe she would likely have ended up with the gold medal anyway, she's only fifteen and has lots of opportunities before her.

The suspension, however painful, should have been upheld. Trying to rig the game by giving a first-class skater some insurance is as unfair to Valieva as to the sport itself and the other skaters.

I don't think there are any absolutely perfect options here that are fair to everyone, but the worst option is letting Russia get away with it again.

Even if she wins the competition, and she ultimately gets to keep the gold medal, she will for the rest of her life be known as the skater who doped. She'll carry that infamy for the rest of her life.

Just ask Marion Jones how her journey through the PED world ended up for her.

[quote]It's nonsense to pretend that the TMZ turned her into a gold medal contender.

No, it's nonsense to pretend otherwise. Without that kind of enhancement, her ability to execute difficult jumps and combos would likely suffer the same fate as they do in the hands of the women who don't dope--inconsistency and very short window of time before it's lost for good.

R443, I agree that will be her reputation outside of Russia. In Russia, they generally love cheating and winning at all costs. She'll be just fine in Russia whereas Marion Jones is a pariah even in the U.S.

R442 shes only 15 but most of these Russian girls are injured and retire by 17. Or a newer model in the line up takes there place. Doubtful she will be at the next Olympics despite being dubbed "the greatest ever".

Russia wants the focus on Valieva and whether the poor child should be penalized for a "mistake." Anything to keep attention from drifting to how long this disposable skater machine has been running.

R444 - That's absurd. The ability even to do those jumps at all is down to athletic ability, not TMZ.

She hasn't failed a drug test since December. She's still turning those jumps. It's a ridiculous assumption.

R448, have you not read any posts on this thread? I think not.

The drug helps with stamina. Without the extra stamina, these girls wouldn't be able to practice jumping 12 hours a day. Or whatever outrageous amount is required. Japanese male skater Shoma Uno tried Eteri's camp and said he left because he couldn't handle the workload. I'm assuming they didn't risk doping him up like they do the Russians.

So... added to whatever they give them on the spot (Dr Skategood having them sniff stuff or whatever the hell he's there for - smelling salts that are more than that?), that's the only reason this camp, and no other, produces multiple girls who do quads -- and no other girls in the world have done so reliably, maybe several here and there before their bodies can't handle it any more - see Miki Ando, Rika Kihira, Alysa Liu...

And even with all the doping, the Russian phenoms seldom make it to the ripe old age of 17 as an active competitor. It's obvious. And I'm sure it's not just TMZ. And Rusada or whatever the Russian doping agency is -- I saw a person familiar with insiders say that that organization is there to teach the skating camps how to hide the doping. So them investigating anything would only be them trying to figure out why this one got caught - so they don't repeat the mistake.

R448 it's not just "doing those jumps." Is also doing them repeatedly in one routine, and consistently enough to have them in the routine, and to be hitting them at or close to 100% of the time. A 14/15 year old does not have the upper body strength necessary to do that without some kind of enhancement.

It's still nuts that Zagitova, the reigning Olympic champion, effectively retired at age 17. Not even because of a career-ending injury, just because she got too old to be able to keep up. 17!

oh and there are definitely moe drugs - to prevent puberty and keep them extremely skinny. One coach with Eteri's camp, Danny G they call him, bragged that Anna Shcherbakova was content with two shrimps for dinner instead of three. What a gem!

R448, the problem with this camp includes that the coach blames poor performance on the skaters being “fat” even though they aren’t. The 2014 gold medalist was from the same training camp and said she was anorexic at the time she won, age 15. How does someone with anorexia achieve athletic feats given the usual physical effects of anorexia? That’s where the drug comes in. Her team has been openly saying it’s for heart protection but she shouldn’t need heart protection unless she is overtraining. And if she has anorexia, the heart medicine won’t stop all the other health effects that come from that.

It doesn’t matter how much or how little the drugs helped. They helped and the rules were broken. The track and field athlete who smoked pot clearly did NOT benefit, and she wasn’t allowed to compete. Because rules are rules, except when they aren’t.

The whole reason women skaters have struggled with the 3A and quads is the upper body & core strength and weight. There's a very short-lived sweet spot where you have a developed-enough body to get the strength but are still light enough to pull off difficult jumps and in combo. The women who were the original outliers often had some unusual characteristic that helped--Tonya Harding had massive upper body strength she attributed to chopping wood. Midori Ito I think was bowl-legged or something similar that helped her wrap her leg tighter to increase the speed of her spins. But even Tonya's 3A lasted only about a year+, and Midori was notoriously shaky (even though each of them, when they hit it, still have maybe the best ever examples of it). Surya Bonaly was maybe the fittest and hardest working athlete among the figure skaters and she *struggled* with her triple-triple combos. Because while aging helps with strength, it kills all your other advantages--especially weight.

The Russians no doubt paid close attention to what was happening with skating in the 90s--the young, tiny, and less experienced Oksana and Tara winning and finishing in one season over Nancy and Michelle, technique be damned. Formula set--get them young, skinny, and pliable, starve them, and pump them with the drugs that can make up for the lack of strength. The jumps don't need to be "perfect" they just need to be good enough for the technical specialist to conveniently miss the cheats. They won't last long, but who gives a shit. It's a better return on investment than trying to get an older and stronger skater to keep weight off, which is always a risk because even the strongest drugs can't control growth spurts and hip spread.

""But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva's sample also found evidence of two other heart medications, hypoxen and L-Carnatine, that are not on the banned list."

Three heart medications?! The poor kid. I'm starting to think that the rumor that Kosto went into renal failure because of all the drugs she was on might actually be true.

Whack her in the legs with a club. Problem solved.

R457, the combination of medically unnecessary drugs with Eteri’s known policy of limiting her skaters’ water intake definitely could cause renal failure.

She hasn't taken the fucking drug since December and she's still turning the fucking jumps and setting records. She set a record in the short programme for the team event WITHOUT THE DRUG.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't help somewhat. I'm suggesting that it isn't responsible for her natural athleticism and talent. Training 12 hours a day? What do you think some principal ballet dancer does? She goes to class in the morning, rehearsal in the afternoon, and then comes back to the theatre to perform.

This is top level international sports competition. How long do you think all the other skaters are training? Three or four?

I totally agree that the whole jump ethos is out of control and ruining the sport. I don't agree that the only way it can be done by women is with drugs, because the other women are doing it and Valieva was doing it without the drug for the team event, and still skated brilliantly.

Yes, extra stamina helps and it may particularly help with jumps, especially with the women; but it doesn't mean that Valieva really can't jump at all without the drug, that's just stupid, she clearly can.

And she isn't anorexic: one thing I've noticed about her is that while she has a slender figure, it's not at all twiggy, and she does seem to look slightly more womanly than I'd expect a 15 year old Russian skater look - it's one of the things I like about watching her, her skating has an odd maturity for someone so young. She skates like an 18 year old.

As stated upthread, I think the suspension should be upheld, but I also think that it's too bad for what actually is in her own right without the drug, a brilliant skater.

R460 That isn't how doping typically works. Doping is often conducted outside of competition to allow people to train harder and longer. That gives them a big advantage. You see the same thing with steroids - they take a cycle outside of competition.

Also, someone must have fucked up because I don't believe that the other Russian skaters aren't taking the same things. And RUSADA we all know is corrupt. So someone really screwed up giving the Stockholm lab a dirty sample.

I have a feeling we won't be seeing Russia or ROC or whatever other half-assed name they want to call themselves at Paris '24 or LA '28.

R460 is determined to not see the problem.

How many times did Lance Armstrong pass a drug test before he was finally exposed? As someone pointed out upthread, part of the doping operation is cheating the tests. sHe OnLY fAiLED onCE! is not the argument you think it is.

They have Valieva wear padded bras.

[quote]Midori Ito I think was bowl-legged or something similar that helped her wrap her leg tighter to increase the speed of her spins. But even Tonya's 3A lasted only about a year+, and Midori was notoriously shaky (even though each of them, when they hit it, still have maybe the best ever examples of it).

I don't Midori's being bowlegged gave her an advantage of having a tight wrap. Her loose wrap is what has always made me marvel that she could get those rotations around as quickly as she did. Additionally, Midori's Triple Axel lasted lasted her about 8 years. She was still able to land them in 1996, although yes, her consistency went down but she was also nearly 30 at the time.

"She doesn't look anorexic!"

Yes, I'm sure she naturally achieved the requisite upper body strength with that concave chest.

R452 it's not "she was too old", there was an interview posted in this thread or another one? Zagitova explained she was not able to do triple axel or quad toes etc while there are a lot of young girls in Russia can, and those girls swept the podium in Russian nationals, there was literally no chance for her to medal again in Russia, if she cannot place in top 3, she would not be able to compete internationally, there is no career path for her.

Do we have a Russian farm bot here or is someone being intentionally obtuse?

How do you not understand that first of all, a banned substance is a banned substance, If you get caught taking it you shouldn't be allowed to compete. Those are the rules, everyone knows them. You don't get a pass because you make an excuse that it doesn't enhance your performance.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how the medication gave her an advantage. It increases endurance and gave her the ability to train more effectively, giving her an ADVANTAGE over other athletes who are not taking it. The fact that she used it during training is what is giving her the edge because she was able to put in all those extra run throughs that others not doped up can't take advantage of.

It's like saying in a classroom of students who are equally intelligent, everyone is given 1 hour a day and only 1 hour a day only to study for an exam. One student is given 3 hours a day to study the same material. This goes on for three months. The week of the test, every student only gets 1 hour to study.

You can't understand that that the student who was given 3 months with 2 extra hours a day was given an advantage?

Nevermind, you'll still argue she didn't.

The interesting thing that Tara talks about is that in their sport they know all about doping. All the athletes are aware of it and what the process is so its also kind of not a valid argument that the girl was only 15 and didn't know what people were doing.

Tara relayed that she started having to be tested at 11 and she and her mother knew enough that even if she had a slight cold they'd call the testing agency and first find out what medications she could take. She says that even at that age she was aware of the requirements to the extent that she was too afraid to/would not eat poppy seed bagels.

Sure these athletes really have no say in what their Government is going to force them to do, but let's not pretend they aren't aware that they're being doped.

The American media is fawning over this cheater. And it’s sickening. She should be disqualified on the spot. Ok so blame her coach if that’s the case but the person can’t just compete and we all pretend that this is somehow fair?

This entire olympics is a disaster and a farce.

R471, I don’t know what media you’re watching, but it isn’t the American media. She’s getting raked over the coals.

Of course they cheated. They always do. It’s more about blocking western victories. They don’t even care about winning. They do not want the Americans especially to leave the with gold. That is the goal. Stop America at all costs.

The reason is that they don’t want American morale and unity to prevail.

The host country is also guilty of the same motives.

Don’t be surprised if the turn down the a/c so the bobsled ice melts, or do whatever they can to sabotage western countries.

Yup, they’re fuck’n scum, always have been, always will be.

Sorry, not the American media but the international media. Seems like they are being to soft on her.

Why in earth is she allowed to skate? This is a joke.

This is the Kabuki Olympics.

I really don't get how they're saying it's not the IOCs decision or even ISU's choice... its the blah blah blah Abritration that gets to decide who competes.

R466, yeah it probably not her leg wrap as much as her hips that accounted for her height/speed. She did often manage a tight wrap though, it's just that she was so fast that many times the jump was over before her body reached that position--she literally made it around faster than her body could stretch out. Plus she didn't need it because she got up so damn high. When you watch her jumps in slow motion you can see just how impressive her speed and height were. She puts all the little automatons today to shame.

There's a reason an athlete like Ito (or Michael Phelps in swimming) comes along once in a long while--what they do to advance the sport is really phenomenal and the product of a perfect storm of natural physique in addition to their hard work and opportunities. For one country to churn out a bunch of those phenoms in a short burst is such a red flag it's ridiculous to let them go so long pretending otherwise.

Johnny Weir looks ridiculous , and Tara is too old for the Barbie look!

The decent thing for he to do would be to withdrawal. That way she doesn’t SABOTAGE the rest of the competitors.

The American girl that gave up her citizenship to compete for the host country was another operation to take down American morale. Whatever it takes.

R470 Yes, Valieva tested positive for a banned substance, however she has tested clean in Beijing. That was enough to allow her to compete while her positive test is being investigated.

The ugly truth is this: most professional athletes probably take something or another to improve performance. Like the poster said upthread, you even see it at the high school level. We see it with athletes like Simone Biles, who is sooooo ADHD that she needs drugs to control it, but somehow the poor dear manages to be laser focused when required to get the gold medal. Heaven forbid we talk about the appetite and weight control aspects of Ritalin and how advantageous that must be to her short and stocky body type (yes, I went there). But, but, but “therapeutic use” cough, cough, wink, wink.

We see a million excuses, it was in the pork, it was in the lip balm, it was in the shampoo, it was in the model’s mouth. Hmmmm…..

Today, it was disclosed she tested positive for two non-banned substances, one of which is l-carnitine. American media is blowing up that it’s also a “heart medication.”Not quite true. It’s a supplement used for heart health and general muscle soreness. It also occurs naturally in the body and found in common foods, like beef. But the media is ready to vilify her without looking at the nuances of the results.

There’s also another ugly truth. The doping tests are several years behind the state-of-the-art substances taken by the most elite of athletes in the wealthiest countries. Russia’s doping program is centralized, state-run. Like every government program worldwide, it’s outdated, inefficient and sloppy. Contrast that to private programs, which offer ahead-of-their-time regimens. The athlete won’t get caught because they simply haven’t developed a test for it yet. It was how Lance Armstrong got away with it for so long.

R478, yes but they look PERFECT for figure skating commentary!

*spoiler The American girl just messed up. Of course. My nerves would be rattled too. These cheaters should have never been their in the first place. They keep getting busted repeatedly. Over and over. That part gets left out.

Oh. It’s just another coincidence. Just by happenstance.

R482 oh please figure skating is not a flamboyant sport!

R481 is the long winded both sides troll.

R477 I've marveled at how often when you replay Midori's jumps she's actually higher than the boards... on her way down. It's phenomenal.

"She doesn't need to do it but she only did it once but she didn't really do it and besides everybody does it and she learned it by watching YOU, Dad!"

No, the very fact she tested positive two months ago means she absolutely should not have been allowed to compete.

I'm not refusing to see the problem. I stated twice that the suspension should be upheld and deplored Russia continuing to get away with this. I'm refusing to agree that Valieva is really just a mediocre skater without doping, and as for Lance Armstrong . . . Jesus, this girl is FIFTEEN YEARS OLD. Armstrong was a grown man. They did just catch her, at just fifteen. In mid-December. It's now mid-February and she hasn't failed any other doping tests, and she still set a record in the short programme at the team event.

I'm refusing to see the problem from your perspective, which is that the doping is all there is to her. That's where we disagree.

Nobody is saying that doping is all there is to her though. You've just made that up. It gives her an edge to be at the top. And if it doesn't make much difference, then why bother taking the risk?

[quote]which is that the doping is all there is to her

No one has said any such thing. And no one has said she is even to blame. We all know she's a pawn in the Russian doping machine.

R488 - With which sentiment I am in full agreement, stating that for the third time.

But to the broader point, it is Russian who should not be allowed to compete.

Frankly, I think it's the money. The IOC and the host country and the media all know the Russian skaters are a huge draw, and they want the money.

The people allowing Russia to get away with it are as cynical and immoral as the Russian sports industry.

R491 - Yes, someone did.

"It's nonsense to pretend that the TMZ turned her into a gold medal contender."

Reply: "No, it's nonsense to pretend otherwise. Without that kind of enhancement, her ability to execute difficult jumps and combos would likely suffer the same fate as they do in the hands of the women who don't dope--inconsistency and very short window of time before it's lost for good."

That poster directly stated that without the drug Valieva wouldn't be a gold medal contender.

A guaranteed gold medal - there is no such thing.

But not a top tier contender? Please.

No one said doping was all there was to her. Someone keeps making the statement that the drug did not give her an advantage.

It clearly did.

It makes me sad, as I think her skating is so beautiful, even if she didn't do any jumps. Poor kid.

No such thing as a guaranteed Gold Medal?

LOL. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

R493 that was me, and saying the drug helped make her a gold-medal contender is not the same as saying her skating is nothing without it.

We have no way of knowing what kind of skater she'd be without the drug. She might have been an excellent skater without it but there are plenty of those out there who will never win a gold medal. Maybe she could land a quad or 3A without it, but not consistently enough to have it safely part of her program.

The fact that she at any point had such a dangerous drug in her system is a pretty big red flag that SOMEBODY thought she needed it.

Trixi Schuba isn't happy about all this

I would like to know what Maria Butyrskaya has to say about this!

R499 Go ask that little bitch Irina Sluts!

Speaking of Butyrskaya, interesting interview with Irina Slutskaya. The translation is a bit wonky:

[quote]EV: What do you think when you see the rivals hug on the podium and then tell how much they wish the other one did great? IS: Frankly, I can hardly believe it. Only very strong people can keep it friendly after all that sports life. I was never friends with the girls who were in the team, yet I could always communicate with them – that was never a problem. With Elena Sokolova we still see each other in the training camps, wish each other happy birthday. Elena used to coach in my school. Not long ago I started speaking to Maria Butyrskaya. A couple of months ago we sat down and figured our relationship. It was a long and a complicated one: each would bite a piece of gold from the other. And then there were so many people who were among us who always set us against each other. She was told one thing about me, I was the other, according to them we were not far from ruining each other’s blades. Now, at our age it looks funny. However, at that moment it was a true rivalry, boarding with hate. Fortunately there were no social networks back then.

[quote]EV: Yet there was the situation with Harding/Kerrigan before the 1994 Olympics when one organized an attack on the other. IS: There were enough situations in my career that I never spoke about. I was given doping – they were trying to kick me out from the team. In 1999 I didn’t make it to the team and more or less missed the season. After winning the Nationals I got a phone call from our doc Victor Anikanov, who said `Ira, please recall, did you take any medicine?’

[quote]EV: I.e. the sample wasn’t clean? IS: Yes. Viktor Ivanovich knew I was a very `right’ person and before taking a pill I would call and recheck a 100 times. I am so afraid of the needles that I faint just seeing them. Hence the sample seemed odd to the doctor – there were traces of something that can only be injected. I immediately redid all the tests and they all came back clean. Remember that story when at the end of 1999 someone burnt Maria Butyrskaya’s car? I was called to the police. I was sitting in the office with that huge dude, who not only explained how and when I did it, but that I will be jailed starting tomorrow. I was so afraid, you can’t imagine. I was recalling the day minute by minute, what I was doing, who I was with and was explaining why it couldn’t possibly be me… In general the sports taught me no matter what happens you must always remain human. And deal with the defeats. It’s, let’s say, a valuable lesson to be able taking the hardships. Hence am not going to blame someone in my defeat in Turino – I landed on my butt, nothing to talk about.

She also talks about the short competitive life of Russian skaters now and what she had to endure to remain competitive. Russian skating might just be beyond redemption.

R501 In Salt Lake City, you have to ask how Irina lost the SP to Michelle Kwan's recycled Rachmaninoff from 4 years ago? Just watch it, her jumps were high and much cleaner, her technique was superior, the entry and take off was really something to watch, and the program was beautifully choreographed and revolutionary, the entire foot sequence on one leg, her SP was breathtaking! But the idiots on tv kept feeding the American audience Irina doesn't have the artistry of Michelle Kwan, she was trying to be "arty"... are you fucking kidding me?

Meh. Irina deserved to be placed after Michelle for that hair choice alone.

Irina's jumps may have been bigger, etc. and she was rewarded for it. She edged Kwan on that and got higher marks.

The Artistry though, I'd give it to Kwan. Irina's was meh to me.

That being said, Ive always wondered what the logic was for using the same SP she used in Nagano. Probably another one of Daddy Kwan's ideas.

R502 I think it's because as good as Irina was, she didn't have that effortless quality the judges love and were able to favor in the old system. Irina telegraphed her jumps, which judges HATED, and she never skated as though it came easy. I admired her and Surya Bonaly for hard hard they worked, but it was sometimes hard to watch them because it really felt like they were torturing themselves on the ice.

[quote] Jesus, this girl is FIFTEEN YEARS OLD.

Being an underaged teenager sure as hell didn't stop the IOC from stripping Andreea Raducan of her All-Around gold medal. Why is Valieva being treated differently?

R505 the rationale behind Raducan was that she was over 16.. she was 17 and therefore not a "protected" person.

I believe Weir said, and this is the really the only time I've probably ever agreed with him is, that perhaps they should consider if a class of athletes have to be "protected," then they should not be allowed to compete.

And that makes perfect sense. If you have to "protect" athletes under the age of 16 then the requirement to compete should be 16+.

R504 you were talking about Irina's skating over her career, but I am talking about that SP, that SP should beat Kwan's in SLC, I don't think there should be any doubt there if the judges were fair and unbiased!

R504 I'm talking about that program. That was one of Irina's best, but the judges know the skaters and what to expect and she didn't correct any of the issues they had with her style.

[quote]Ive always wondered what the logic was for using the same SP she used in Nagano.

2002 was her last chance for gold, and that Rachmaninoff SP was one of her top-scoring programs. It was her safety blanket.

Michelle Kwan's SP in SLC, she was actually even worse than I remembered, she barely saved the landing on 3F!

[quote] I believe Weir said, and this is the really the only time I've probably ever agreed with him is, that perhaps they should consider if a class of athletes have to be "protected," then they should not be allowed to compete.

Agreed.

It also points to a vast difference in how teenagers are treated/overly-babied today vs. just twenty years ago..

[Quote] The ability even to do those jumps at all is down to athletic ability, not TMZ.

If she didn’t need it, why did her coaches give it to her?

R509, I miss her skating. She brought so much joy to her routines.

R507 seems pretty clear they were talking about that Short Program. Everything they pointed out is valid and evident in that video.

R512 yes but her SP in SLC was not one of her signature programs, it was tepid, she didn't have the speed of 4 years ago and her jumps deteriorated, the only highlight from that SP was the spiral, it was better, by that time, she was so good at that I/0 spiral sequence, she can do it in her sleepwalk.

The entire Chinese female gymnast team were disqualified and had to return their Sydney 2000 Bronze medal because *one* of them turned out to be underage. If that then-14 year old and her fellow 15/16 year old teammates were not protected, why should any other athlete be?

Poor Kamila—lovely skater but all drugged up

Remember when that Black American runner couldn’t go to the last Olympics because of a positive marijuana test? That’s not even a performance enhancer

Everyone has such serious faces, either pretending to be dramatic or petrified of the next quad they have to land. Kwan’s skating was so free and easy—that smile showed confidence and fun.

Sadly she tightened up for both Olympics and that inhibited many of those very qualities that made her such a star. No one since has had such freedom in their skating

R515, that is also true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect that despite being so-called 'friends,' China is not pleased with Russia's shenanigans giving their Olympics a black eye.

[quote] Sadly she tightened up for both Olympics

R518 and she left Torino prematurely (due to lack of confidence! let's be honest here), if she had stayed, she might have won, since the gold medalist Arakawa only had 5 triples in the FS, the worst gold medalist in the last 20 years.

If Valieva tested posted at Russian Nationals, which is what got her her ticket here, shouldn’t that invalidate everything & lead to her disqualification?

R514 well it was still better than that display of Irinas!

Wasn't Kwan injured going into Torino?

And yes, sadly for her if she had skated, she would have beaten Arakawa and completed her medal collection and finally have gotten that Gold.

R520/R523 Not likely. Kwan was pretty seriously injured. She had to get a waiver to get on the team for Torino because she had been unable to compete since the 2005 Worlds, where she failed to medal. She had surgery not long after the Olympics.

If she hadn't been injured she absolutely would have competed and yes she could have won.

Mariah Bell was my favorite.

R460 is the worst. Talks like an expert but lacks the most basic understanding of how doping works.

R524 yes, that's what I mean, she was injured and that's why she left. But if she had been able to compete, because of what ended up happening that night, shw would have won.

Didn't she have some issue in 2005 because she refused to adjust her program to the new scoring system? I seem to recall the US had not yet adapted over so she kept her programs the way they were instead of altering them for International comps.

Noting stopping the cheater girl from gracefully bowing out. It’s the right thing to do.

R59, Lipnitskaya struggled with anorexia but received treatment in 2019 and now has a daughter, born in 2020. She also started her own skating school and skates in shows. Her coach gave interviews in 2014 saying that she had been living off powdered nutrients in the months leading up to the Olympics.

Another skater who had anorexia, who dropped to 66 pounds at over 5’2 at age 18, was Akiko Suzuki. She got treatment, recovered, and went on to place 8th at the Olympics in 2014 at the age of 28. Gracie Gold seems to have recovered well too.

R527 Sasha Cohen should have won the gold medal that night, she had a fall and a hand touch town, but she was the only skater who had 7 triples in the free skate, all her triples were rectified, there was no downgrade, the fall had a mandatory 1 point deduction and that's about it. Her program component score should be higher. Not to mention, Cohen had the best SP among the top 3, she received the highest score but the judge made the reservation, her score should be marked much higher than Slutskaya and Arakawa, instead they gave her SP less than one point advantage over 2nd and 3rd.

Suzuki was a lovely skater, she had a very memorable "West Side Story" in 2009, she skated her best of that program in Cup of China.

R531, no thanks. Sasha was awful and I had sufficient.

I thought Sasha was a beautiful skater but I lost interest in her after it became clear she couldn’t skate 2 clean programs to save her life. It just became a bummer to watch her compete.

If only there was something like TMZ that could've helped Sasha train longer and not have such a bitch face

I know very little about Eteri beyond the doping scandal but I have heard she is a very tough coach. Maybe she really would have been able to get Sasha to stop cracking under pressure. Kind of like how Karolyi was able to toughen up American gymnasts.

Kamila's planned elements:

1 Quad Salchow

2 Triple Axel

3 Quad Toeloop+Triple Toeloop

4 Triple Loop

5 Fly. Camel Spin

6 Choreo Sequence

7 Quad Toeloop+Single Euler+Triple Salchow

8 Triple Flip+Triple Toeloop

9 Triple Lutz

10 Step Sequence

11 Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin

12 Change Foot Combination Spin

Trusova's planned elements though..

1 Quad Flip

2 Quad Salchow

3 Double Axel+Triple Toeloop

4 Quad Toeloop

5 Change Foot Combination Spin

6 Choreo Sequence

7 Quad Lutz+Triple Toeloop

8 Quad Lutz+Single Euler+Triple Salchow

9 Triple Lutz

10 Fly. Camel Spin

11 Step Sequence

12 Fly. Change Foot Comb. Spin

R537

EXCUSE ME! HOW DARE YOU FORGET VALIEVA'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PLANNED ELEMENT OF ALL:

1. Ingest a banned substance to enhance performance because I am a doping little bitch

Another Eteri skater's career is over, at the tender age of 18-years-old. Aliona Kostornaia has posted a video saying that she broke her other arm when she got back to training (hello Lupron ?) and that she wants to become a coach / is studying a psychology degree.

R540, what? She fractured her hand in December, now there was another break? That’s certainly not suspicious, not at all.

CNN is reporting that it’s was actually three banned heart meds, not one

R497 GoodLord, there is footage of her skating as a child in which it's clear she is gifted. She has failed no drug tests since Decemberand and was still turning quads and setting records two weeks ago.

You keep talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can bloody well see that she's a beautiful skater, or did you miss her short programme in the team event whilst NOT TAKING THE DRUG?!

You can say she might not be as much of a shoo-in as she seemed, but to assert after watching her skating off the drug, never mind early footage of her, that "no one can tell if she'd been a top tier skater" is just ludicrous.

R543 It's weird - no matter how many people try to explain to you that the main benefit of doping is being able to train harder and longer out of competition, you still don't understand. Are you a paid troll or what?

It's gotta be a paid troll. Who would make themselves sound so dense for free?

R543 She may not be on that particular drug right now, but she was found with two other heart medications in her system. Three seems a bit excessive for a 15-year-old, and there is no way they all came from her grandfather (a faulty excuse to begin with). She is clearly on drug cocktails. Legal medications or not, she's a talented, yet drugged up skater, under her current coaching stuff.

I don’t think R543 can be that stupid. It’s like steroids. You can take them to bulk up and then stop taking them. Maybe you lose some muscle mass when you stop, but you are still bigger. This isn’t a new concept.

Doesn’t mean she knew what she was taking, but the rules were broken and it’s almost certain that conferred an advantage.

R505 Read the post again. I did not remotely suggest she should have been treated differently, a point I have REITERATED THREE FUCKING TIMES.

The mention of her age, if you woud like to review the bit again, was in response to the other poster mentioning Lance Armstrong going so long without being caught. In contrast, I pointed out that he was a grown man when caught, whilst Valieva was caught at fifteen. She doesn't have ten years of championships behind her. She's already been caught out, and subsequent drug tests were clean.

She skated that record breaking fantastic short programme in the team event without the banned drug, high quads and spins and spirals and all.

Yes she skated all that... as a result of long practices which she was able to perform with the assistance of a banned substance designed to give her exactly that edge.

R548, no one is saying she isn’t gifted. Obviously she is. Maybe she is the most naturally talented skater today. But we won’t know that because she CHEATED.

Lawd, it's not stopping.

R548 All this babbling of yours is meaningless. There's footage of pretty much every competitor as a child demonstrating what a gifted skater they are. A skinny 15 year old girl with MULTIPLE QUADS in her first major international program is fucking doping. Multiple skaters from the same team with similarly difficult programs despite youth and a tiny build is a fucking doping scheme. It's not "one time" just because there's only one dirty test. The comparison to Lance Armstrong is that the doping goes on long before the athlete is caught because part of the doping scheme is CHEATING THE TESTS. Your bizarre need to convince us this child is some kind of superfreak prodigy who just totes coincidence happens to come from the same country and coach as a bunch of other superfreak prodigies is a waste here because anyone with half a brain can see what's happening right out in the open.

Russians really are thick. Had they just gotten a medical use exemption, none of this would be an issue. She’d be like the overwhelmingly “asthmatic” Norwegian cross-country ski team.

BTW, the other two drugs in her system are not banned, and they aren’t “heart meds” exclusively. You can bet your bottom dollar plenty of other athletes take those too.

The problem for the Russians, R552, is that apparently there is no medical use exemption for that particular drug.

R552, that’s true, but the U.S. has tried to get one of them, Hypoxen, banned.

L-Carnitine is a dietary supplement used by ordinary people in the US, but Hypoxen is banned for use here completely. One wonders what bad effects it has if not even US drug companies can offer it for sale.

R551- Clearly, you and I are seeing two different skaters. Valieva has an athlete's build but she's not skinny and twig-like at all. In point of fact, her skating has a weight and maturity unusual in a 15 year old. Her legs are not twig like at all. Other young women skaters are turning quads. Her skating has athleticism, grace, her spins, spirals, footwork, etc., are all high quality. Why the fuck keep focussing on the quads?!

She does not remotely resemble some of the photos of skaters like Lipnitskaya, a tiny little butterfly of a girl living on powders, or even Michelle Kwan, who looked half Valieva's size on the ice. Valieva looks far less skinny than Victoria Sinitsina, the silver medalist in the ice dancing.

Good lord, I never said there wasn't a problem with doping, the Russians, and I support the suspension. The only thing we are arguing about is the worth of Valieva as a skater, which you refuse to acknowledge even exists, as if doping could turn her from a meh skater to a top notch one.

In point of fact, the far more fragile looking Sinitsina was very exciting to watch, and for once I thought the judges got it wrong. I'd have put the Russian pair first, the French pair second, and the Americans, who skated wonderfully and flawlessly, to keep the bronze. And, by the way, Madison Hubbell of the American ice dance pair is one of the hefiter numbers on the ice and, it seems to be, something of an outlier in that regard.

The girl is 15. Like the Eastern bloc athletes in previous years I doubt if she has any say in the matter. The East German women athletes had to take testosterone. When you were told to do it you did it or else. I don't think that’s changed.

[quote]Valieva looks far less skinny than Victoria Sinitsina, the silver medalist in the ice dancing.

Ice dancers DON'T JUMP.

Jesus H. Christ.

R558 WHAT THE FUCK TO THE JUMPS HAVE TO DO WITH IT. PAIR SKATERS AND SINGLES ALSO SHOW VERY THIN FRAGILE WOMEN. VALIENA ISN'T ONE OF THEM.

OMG what has happened to this thread. Valieva cheated. Every skater at Eteri's camp probably cheats. A lot!

The size shit is just evidence that weird things are going on, with hormonal delays and thyroid meds or whatever. Alena Kostornaia just broke her OTHER arm. BECAUSE of them trying to mess with her hormones which messed with her bones -- maybe not this year -- but in the past which made her bones fragile.

And I don't think she's ever been skinny but what difference does that make? It's one piece of evidence that points to the BLARINGLY OBVIOUS fact that Eteri's camp is a doping factory.

R556, doping can absolutely turn a meh skater into a phenomenal one. The thing is, since Kamila dopes, we have no way of telling whether she has natural talent above everyone else.

So… let’s move on (although we probably won’t). What do we think will happen in the free skate? Will Kamila choke?

She got caught doping, she should not be allowed to compete. End of story.

What do we think will happen? Does it matter? She could fall 6 times and the judges would still name her Champion because it wouldn't be fair to not give her th Gold because she's 15 and a "protected" athlete!

Tara didn’t agree with the scoring of another ROC. She thought it was too high.

Hah r563 if she falls 6 times I think they might pass on giving her a medal. I predict she won’t but I wouldn’t be surprised if she choked a bit and fell a few times. If she falls once, they’ll give her the gold. Twice? It starts getting dicey.

Damn, she really does not deserve to skate. Had there ever been an instance where someone was caught doping but punishment was deferred? I can’t think of one.

R564 well she also thought Nathan's botched single flip should have no impact on his score, it all worked out for Nathan!

Assuming she gets gold, the silver and bronze medalists should sue the IOC citing the “irreparable harm” to their careers.

R567 most likely theyll all be Russians so theyre not going to say a word. Theyll just be glad their own test results dont get scrutinized.

The fourth place finisher though, most likely from Japan, should give them a headache though.

All of the skaters are talented but doping provides an unethical advantage which is precisely why it’s banned.

I don’t care how good she skated when she was 5 in a family video, I am sure every other skater can produce a similar one showing off their skills.

The truth is this girl is destroying her body for a moment in time, she mostly likely is not eating sufficiently in an effort to keep her weight down which in turn harms her heart so now she needs heart medication to counter the nutrition. She’s 15 years old not 75, there is absolutely no fucking reason for her to have these medications in her system at her age.

I find the rumors of puberty blockers to be the most disturbing aspect because that is irreversible damage, broken bones and early onset of osteoporosis. The sport needs an overhaul of rules and regulations starting with minimum age requirements, no one under 17.

Russians are not smart, they should just let Kamila go home quietly, the matter will be behind them in a couple days after the team event, it would be remembered as one single incident with minimum or no impact on Russian skaters as a whole. Now not only everyone thinks Kamila is a cheater and should not be here, all Russian girls are under heavy scrutiny, the judges turned against them too. From now on, I seriously doubt the Russian girls will receive the generous scores they had enjoyed in the last 5 years, and they should expect more and a lot more calls on the edge, rotation and executions, the sky high scores are not going to happen any time soon.

The worst part is, they insisted on let Kamila skate but she will not receive any medals no matter what, even if she is found not guilty of doping, there would still be suspension issued for lack of oversight, the minimum for similar incidents is at least 3 months, there will be no medal for her, all these fights are really for a big nothing. Russians got their wish , Kamila can skate in ladies' event but her skate has single-handedly destroyed the Russian skating empire along the way.

Great posts r569 and r570.

I would say 18, R569.

But the judging is corrupt. Even after what happened, they overscored Russian girl #2 - maybe all of them. A Japanese girl with a successful 3A was underscored (less than in the team event when she didn't land the 3A while in the SP here she did land it, clean).

It's like the corruption is so deep they want to rub it in our faces. Just like Kamila - who was laughing with her coach Eteri after her skate.

A big fuck you from Russia, with love. They've cheated, they will continue, and we will all suck it up. And the "judging" will continue to be manipulated by politics and deals, and hell, who knows what. Even Putin is involved (he's a friend of Eteri)

What puzzles me is that the IOC couldn't kick her out of the games but instead they deferred to this international arbitration court or whatever it's called. They own the Olympics, it's their brand. You think they would have the power to DQ athletes. I don't know. Maybe that's a slippery slope to arbitrary decisions being made as to when to kick out an athlete. The ISU certainly doesn't seem to be doing shit.

I say 18 too, r572. Make that the minimum age for anyone competing in the Olympics.

Over 86% of coaches and skaters have voted to raise the age limit. Isu is likely to go for it, gradually so 16 in 2023/24 and 17 in 24/25.

R552 There is no TUE available for Kamila to take trimetazidine because it literally says on the box 'ADULT USE ONLY'. There have been no studies made of the drug's effect on children.

The amount of trimetazidine found in Kamila’s sample was too high for it to have been the result of accidental contamination. Instead, it was consistent with her having taken a full dose.

Plus, of course, there’s no evidence grandpa had a prescription for this medication.

Surya Bonalay should be called and told to smack the russians around a bit.

I want to know why the IOC cant decide to raise the age limit themselves? I find it so weird that each sport can set their own limits. Like in Gymnastics they raised it to 16.. but then then 13 year olds are competing in skateboarding and diving.

R577 “Adult use only” is a bullshit term used by pharma companies to protect their asses. All drugs have potential “off-label” uses (for example, Botox was used for years as an off label cosmetic drug before getting approval for that purpose. It was used for lazy eye, excessive sweating and spasms before). Plus “adult” usually means 12+ or post-pubertal adolescent. They could have finagled an exemption if they were clever.

R555 Most of the time, when a drug or medical aid is approved worldwide but not in the US, money, not safety, is the issue. Hypoxen is a Russian made “supplement.”

R582, can you explain further? I’m not being sarcastic, what are the fiscal obstacles?

R581 It still means that she can't get a TUE for this drug.

Btw, I know we want to discuss this further, so I created Part 2.

R583 there is no obstacle here, just the profit. If American pharms invented or hold the patents for those drugs, they will lobby for its legal use everywhere including the sports, but since it's owned by other countries like Russia, they have no incentive to let those drugs into the US, not only that, they will try to discredit those drugs as "unsafe" and "harmful" and get them banned.

Got it... thanks, r586.

R585 thanks I was about to ask if someone was planning to.

R586, that doesn’t make sense, it sounds like Russian sour grapes. Plenty of foreign pharmaceutical companies sell drugs in the U.S.

And the issue is further complicated if a drug is not on the banned substance list from WADA, but the drug itself is not approved to use in USA, American athletes will feel they are in disadvantage because athletes from other countries can use it. Whether the drug in question can really help the performance or it's just an urban myth is no longer the focus, the issue has become the "fairness". How to resolve this "unfair" situation for American athletes? There are two options, one is to get FDA to approve the drug use in the US, the other is USADA lobbying the drug banned everywhere in the sports, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the latter is much easier to achieve.

I'd like to think Kamila has innate talent and the drug was absolutely unnecessary. What a mess.

Off topic but related: The FDA is a strange animal in what it approves. For example, the company Clearblue, which makes pregnancy tests, also has a fertility monitor widely available in Europe that is used to prevent unwanted pregnancy by testing urine for various hormones. It has never been approved for sale in the US despite being on the European market for 30 years. On the other hand, Clearblue’s fertility monitor that is used to facilitate pregnancy IS available. American women have to use the device in reverse to get contraceptive usage out of it. Clearblue has tried to get the contraceptive device approved but it has never succeeded. It makes no sense why the FDA has withheld approval, unless you think of pro-life lobbies who may be exerting undue influence in the process.

Jonny & Tara say no place in skating!

That Eteri woman looks like the Cowardly Lion. I'm surprised she tricked some poor schmuck into knocking her up.

CNN has an excellent piece up on its website on the seemingly Teflon Russians sports industry. The piece supports the points above about the ruthless system in place that produces the athletes. But for the poster upthread insisting that really, we can't assume Valieva is really a top tier skater because of this doping, also pounts out that it is horrible unfair to "who is a once in a generation skater".

I am not an outlier on this point, so stiff your uncivil snide assertions that I just don't get it. There are no professionals out there who do not see an innately brilliant skater.

Only you seem determined to assert that without the TMZ we would be looking at a forgettable one.

R595 So why do they bother taking the risk of doping if she would be a brilliant skater without it?

The fucking politically appointed FDA needs to be dissolved immediately! Not a single one of these political appointed cronies are even known by the public, let alone voted in by our so-called democracy. They (FDA) must be publicly vetted or dissolved immediately. As a side note, the DUMS have their corrupt hands deeply in this cookie jar. CORRUPT! CORRUPITY FUCK! Through and through.

R597, how did you wander in here? I guess you’re up in Minsk for the figure skating and your darling Kamila.

No gold for the cheater? I guess I can now invade Ukraine.

Bajour.