I love Los Angeles

Only if you have a lot of money and aren't bothered by popcorn ceilings and communal laundry rooms.

Do you live in LA? I've lived here most of my life but I'm not in love with the place. I'd rather be here than many other places, like NYC, SF, San Diego, Denver, Seattle, Chicago, Miami, and other big cities, but I'm just not in love with the place. The traffic, the smog, the homeless situation, the high housing costs, the crowded feel, and on and on. Splain pleeze.

Moving as soon as I retire - too many homeless and too much crime. Been in LA for 25 years and it is spiraling down the wrong path. The city will end up with the ultra rich and the ultra poor.

I'm off to Laguna Woods in 5 years!

My old racist aunt was in Laguna Woods. Good luck with that dump!

I feel a song coming on

Hey, great for you, OP!

Is it this song R5?

This song!

Been here sine I graduated college and moved out here. I LOVE L.A. Ever changing trendy places, I have seen the gentrification of WeHo, the skyrocketing real estate values and just the over all change. I got lucky and bought in the 90's My 250K Weho house is worth a few million now so I can reitre and move to Las Vegas or Florida or somewhere with no state tax and live the life of Riley.

Although it was hot as hell, it was the 'coldest' place I've ever been. No wonder so many people go nuts there.

Do you like the earthquakes and brush fires, OP?

L.A. is my lady.

[quote]Moving as soon as I retire - The city will end up with the ultra rich and the ultra poor. I'm off to Laguna Woods in 5 years!

Yes, nothing like insulting yourself in a rich retirement community from the ultra rich.

I used to - bit now it’s just another overpriced, trendy city filled with the 1% living well - surrounded by increasing poverty and desperation. I have a harder time ignoring the majority of misery and just driving the hills looking at fabulous houses in which I will never live.

Even in the 80's WeHo was so expensive you could not live there without a really good paying job. Defiantly upper middle class with parents support if you were 20 something. It was by no means average price or cheap. Maybe way back in the 60's or 70's before it was an officially a city.

I have been here for thirty years; I got a job offer and relocated from Ohio. It is hard to notice the changes as they happen, because they happen all around you all the time. I lived in WeHo for seven years in an apartment. I had not had occasion to visit during the daytime for almost twenty years, but last fall I had an early morning medical appointment in Hollywood. I was done by noon, and since I took the day off, I spent most of the afternoon visiting the "old stomping ground." Some things are the same overall, but most of the area I used to rent in is very different. The 50's-60's large apartment buildings on the street I lived on have been either demolished and rebuilt, or extensively rehabbed, and all of them are condominiums now.

Luckily, I have managed to be a half-step ahead of the housing market. Although I still work in DTLA, I bought a house in Long Beach twenty years ago. Eight years ago I sold it for three times what I paid for it, and bought my current house. Now my house has a market value of 2.5x the price I paid. I am not a high wage earner. But I have managed to get "rich" in real estate equity.

I'm mid-50's now and no longer go out to bars or clubs. But I absolutely loved the clubs in the 90's. Pre-broadband, you socialized at clubs, restaurants, coffee shops, theaters, etc. I cannot imagine how insular life in WeHo is now, or, in general, for young gay guys. Most of my friends are through work-related meetings or from the group of friends I made when I was younger, single, and living in WeHo. Only two of our group still live there; both inherited their houses from their grandparents. Otherwise, they would not be able to afford to live there.

One thing I absolutely love about LA is the never-ending variety of interesting things to do. Also, you can fly almost anywhere in the world nonstop from LAX.

R16, you made me smile

I thought I would miss L.A. more than I do having spent most of my life there. Besides my friends, I only miss the food and the freedom of getting in my car and driving anywhere. I’m not sure I’ll ever truly get into Manhattan and will probably settle in London when all is said and done. I agree that without money and social connections, L.A. can be hard for most transplants. Even with all of that, I had too many friends (un)intentionally O.D. because they missed home and career success wasn’t as fulfilling as they’d imagined.

Laguna Woods has a huge shoplifting problem. The olds just dont give a fuck.

L.A. is constantly changing. It is a different place now than it was even twenty years ago

I've never lived in L.A. and I was in my mid-20s the first time I ever visited there. But I have always been fascinated by it. When I was in college in West Texas in the mid-80s, late at night I would tune in KFI-AM back when it was still a Top 40 station. The signal was just barely strong enough to pick up that far away. If there is such a thing as having a past life (and I don't necessarily believe in that), I wouldn't be surprised if one of my lives was in L.A. during the 30s, 40s and 50s. That's how much I feel connected to the city. When I visit now, I feel strangely at home although I've never lived there.

I'm from LA and absolutely love it.

But I get why others hate it.

I'm with R2 - I am from LA and grew up in a nice part. I have a love/hate relationship. I've been wanting to leave and have lived in other cities, but I always end up returning. LA is a good city, but I am very interested in living elsewhere - somewhere that is more walkable, and not so spread out. I have lived in SF and feel like there is more of a city vibe, but I like the people better in LA. I think about Chicago, though I've not been, but I know I will probably not leave CA.

I have been in LA over 40 years and can't think of any other place I'd rather live in. I've traveled a lot and have visited many gorgeous metropolitan cities around the world but, in the end, I still think LA is the most complete package. Of course, I can't say I like every corner of it but I definitely think LA offers more space and beauty in landscape, architecture, weather and culture combined than any other city in the world. Yes, culture, and don't laugh. And the people are the friendliest I have met anywhere across the US.

I lived in Los Angeles for 25 years in various areas, including Pasadena, Hollywood and for the most of the time in West Hollywood when rents were reasonable. I moved out there at 20 and left at 45 (going to Manhattan), and have been back several times, realizing I do not miss it in the least. Other than a few touristy spots and memories oh, for me there's nothing there. A lot of friends have moved on, just aren't interesting anymore or died. Then again, I'm not as happy in New York City as I used to be.

R2 There’s still smog in L.A.? I thought after all the car emissions restrictions that the smog went away.

I lived in Hollywood way back before it got gentrified. 19 years old first time living on my own from a small town. My car was broken into 3 times while parked in a secure gated garage. That issue aside, that's the worst thing that ever happened to me. When you actually lived there and walk around everyday it grows on you. It can be sort of magical. If you watched LA LA Land, they way they sort of cleaned it up is exactly how I felt living there at the time even though in reality it was much grittier. Even now that I haven't lived there in 20 years, I think of it as home in a sort of way.

You can feel this strange energy of disappointment everywhere.

There are certainly worse places, but I'll pass.

Enjoy!

WeHo was a crappy area in the 70s and 80s. I always felt unsafe there. You could have bought a place for a song back then. I know, many places were cheap like that but WeHo was cheap and badass trouble back in those days.

It has had quite a renaissance. I sure wish I owned a few of those shitty homes now.

It has changed - but so has NYC. I always dreamt of moving there from NYC - but after spending months at a time with friends, I missed NYC. But I don’t love NYC either. I guess I could live in either - but not having to drive in NYC is a huge plus. Offset by the weather.

[quote]Yes, nothing like insulting yourself in a rich retirement community from the ultra rich.

You're absolutely right.

R29 There's a reason for that. West Hollywood was an unincorporated area of LA County until 1984. It was under-policed by the Sheriff's department and was home to all manner of seedy vice. Once incorporated, WeHo officially contracted with the LASD for policing and more patrol cars, passed zoning laws, and by the 90's, settled into to what would become WeHo today.

Yeah , r32 tell me about it

R25 It pretty much is gone. I remember as a kid growing up when school would be canceled (“red flag” day) or outdoor activities halted (“yellow flag” day) due to smog. What people consider “bad smog” today are blessed to not remember the 70s in LA. There were days when it quite literally hurt to breathe as a normal, healthy kid.

Air quality is great . Sky is so clear and blue

My takeaway from Downtown LA was that everyone had bad tattoos and there was homeless urine in many doorways. The Asian food was great and the Blade Runner building was neat.

OP is shopping for a clock on Hollywood Bld.

R4, how long ago was that? Now it is a gay/straight mix and I have a couple friends who moved there and are loving it. R13, I think it is different. I've saved all my life and I want to have a nice retirement. Laguna Woods is next to Laguna Beach and in Orange County. I would be privileged to live there but I made allowances all my life to do just that.

When someone on Datalounge counts moving to Orange County as a privilege, the end is clearly nigh.

I'm okay with the use of privileged. As per the dictionary - special opportunity to do something that makes you proud. I have saved all my life and I want to live in a nice place/area when I retire.

OC is idyllic now

[quote] You can feel this strange energy of disappointment everywhere.

Maybe you're projecting, R27.

Laguna Woods is very nice. I have been to estate sales there, and ran a 5k thru there; some of the homes/condos are so cute in a very midcentury Southern California way. I went to the golf clubhouse once with my dad and mom and it was super nice. The golf fees are pretty cheap too

^ I still try to convince my mom to move to Laguna Woods but she thinks the surrounding area, especially Moulton and Valenica, are too crowded. But my former boss lives there and loves it.

[quote] I love Los Angeles The sea, the sand, the food, the land The canyons The glamour

Oh yeah - and the WeHo wannabes - all bottoms. Ah, gotta love LA, a decent fuck around every corner.

R43, R44, thanks for sharing - it makes me feel even better about my choice.

R3, youre welcome. The hospital right there, Saddleback, is pretty good too.

At 23 I luved El Lay. At 63 I loathed Lost Angeles.

Laguna Woods has a definite attrition rate happening.

Went to Grand Central Market on Friday and walked a bit downtown.

^

The new AMPAS Museum is a major disappointment unless you believe the 125 year history of film is Star Wars and comic book superheroes presented in a gutted department store. The view is nice. The $25 burritos are not.

Excuse me, r52, excuse me! The Barbra Streisand Bridge was worth the price of admission.

Excuse me ! R52 from MY BRIDGE on...

Wow r52, I’m disappointed to hear that. I was planning to take a trip out there to see the new AMPAS museum but you’re not the first to say that. I’m hearing a lot of comparisons to the now closed Newseum in Washington, DC and speaking as someone who worked there and saw that coming, that’s not good.

But...but...they have the Mascara dress!

^ Wow! Thought that gown was long gone. My mentor George Erengis donated that dress years ago to the Hollywood Museum. It was take off display there. George would be absolutely thrilled his "eye dress" is now on display at the new AMPAS Museum housed in the old Bullocks where he worked. You made my day R56. Miss you George.💖

Too bad they don't have them all, r57.

It was the May Co., r57.

R58 Yes but sadly those gowns are irrelevant to Gen Z. but they will pay $25 to see..

OP, where do you live?

If you are driving in from the east you can smell (fishy) it 20 miles out.

For those freezing arses auf, Los Angeles was in the 80's today. The predicted high for tomorrow is 86*.

If you love LA so much OP why don’t you MARRY IT?

[quote] There's a reason for that. West Hollywood was an unincorporated area of LA County until 1984. It was under-policed by the Sheriff's department and was home to all manner of seedy vice. Once incorporated, WeHo officially contracted with the LASD for policing and more patrol cars, passed zoning laws,

And just like that all the street parking in the entire city was wiped out. PERMIT ONLY!!!

That's what sucks most about WeHo, f-ing parking is a nightmare.

[quote] The canyons

The caftans!

One of a kind city.

Who can forget WeHo's first openly lesbian Mayor? Shortly after taking the tile she was arrested and found guilty of embezzlement. Not a good look for the first city official.

I agree with you, OP.

It took some time to fall in love with the city, but having lived in many large cities worldwide, I find LA living preferable to most. The weather. Access to beaches. Mountains. Deserts. Valleys. Ability to fly internationally non-stop. Variety of neighbourhoods. Activities. Major city options in the US.

Short of Sydney, think it one of my favourite cities to live. And that’s something I thought I’d never, ever say.*

[* For example, the coast off of LA hosts a majority of the world’s whales and dolphins. Who would have ever guessed? There are little known aspects to this part of the world that are hidden treasures....]

Random thing I love about LA: our billboards.

I'll take awards season billboards and movie/TV premieres over "Larry's Tire Depot on Route 6" any day.

About those billboards, r70...

LOL - R71. This guy has billboards everywhere and they are so cheesy. He must spend a fortune.

Never hire a lawyer that spends a fortune on advertising.

Who do you think pays for these ads - YOU do.

This is the type of lawyer that settles quickly and for any amount. He could have done some extra work and negotiated a much better settlement. All he cares about is time, turnover, and raking in money.

Time is money and he is not going to spend another moment wasting time with your case.

You can also bet you will never personally speak with this lawyer. You'll be passed off to some underpaid, unhappy "legal assistant".

Read reviews. Not on his website, on places like YELP. If the lawyer has 100 5-star and 100 1-star reviews then you know he paid for the 5-star ones. Read the hidden reviews.

You have to love these guys. I've known too many of them.

Debbie Reynold’s memorabilia collection was sold off, right? A real shame.

Yes, R74. Just think... she could be admiring it in her most recent underground home.

[quote]now it’s just another overpriced, trendy city filled with the 1% living well - surrounded by increasing poverty and desperation.

That could be the description of just about every major city in the US right now, R14.

Oh for chrissakes, r73, did you even look at that billboard?

Yes, sure I did R71 & R77. FYI I wasn't responding to your post, I was responding to the R72 post. Please calm down.

I CAN'T CALM DOWN, IT'S DL!!!!!

IMO, Grand Central Market is overrated. It's a food court.

And the Food Court is in a dirty, sketchy, schizophrenic-filled area that makes NYC look like Malibu

People are afraid to merge...

I don't think it's that bad. It's just very downtown.

I have lived in LA for 30 years, been to Grand Central maybe twice. It's not a big thing, maybe for tourist or locals living in downtown but that's about it. Down town LA is not the center of LA. It's come a long way gone through some amazing growth spurts but it's still not most cities where people go unless they work there. That's what outsides always get wrong, it's not like San Francisco or NYC in that regard.

San Francisco's downtown is pretty nowhere after dark too. It is even worse since Covid.

It's next to Grauman's Million Dollar Theater which is pretty wonderful.

^ and the homeless tents with sidewalks filled with feces, urine and used needles...

R84 I agree. I've never lived in LA, but I have visited. Generally LA is much more like Atlanta than NYC, Chicago, etc... There is a downtown, but people mainly only go there if they work there or they have to go to court or deal with some other governmental office. In reality everything is spread out across a vast area and many people spend the bulk of their time in their little corner of the city.

Unfortunately that isn't limited to downtown, r87. But it isn't *everywhere* downtown and if you're going to be a wuss about it, don't go. There's a lot of LA history there. The Market is across from Angels Flight which I felt the need to ride at least once.

^ I know...I live here. Our incompetent politicians keep throwing money at the problem. Their efforts do not work and there is no consequence for their failed direction. If in a private company, they would have been fired.

What's your solution, r90?

The corruption doesn't help either. Jose huizar was caught and he had so much power. I doubt he was the only one who was crooked. How many millions or billions in government spending and deals does corruption affect? Then you how much money actually helps people.

R91

1) convert unused/unoccupied city, county, federal buildings into shelters (there is more than enough) 2) provide educational assistance so they are able to get out on their own and become a productive members of society 3) they either agree to the conditions or they are not welcomed in the county

That's it - hard approach but it can't be handled differently as there is no improvement while attracting other homeless from the rest of the US and world. And, I am not a Republican - I am a Independent leaning Democrat

R92, the others haven't been caught yet. There should be an outcry from all of them but they are close to silent.

And as long as you don't get caught, you can remain an elected official in LA. It's extremely unusual for an incumbent to lose.

With it's congested traffic, inflated prices for everything, and crime everywhere, LA has been over for a long time.

[quote]they either agree to the conditions or they are not welcomed in the county

How would that work, r93?

Maybe for you, r95, not for me.

I'm an LA native and I have never been to the Central Market, R84. I have been to the station, but I'm from the westside. DTLA is a mission and we never went to DTLA growing up unless it was for a event.

R97, I have been there many times and you can have it! You could not pay me to live in that cesspool.

I work downtown adjacent and go into the city center for a show, a museum visit, a court date or jury duty, or some other planned event. Otherwise, I don't have occasion to go to DTLA.

The primary reason homelessness in LA will never be "solved" is twofold: some homeless people simply do not want to be "housed." They believe that they are better off living on the streets than in a shelter, transitional housing, or somewhere else where there are rules. And there are those with untreated or undiagnosed mental illnesses, which can lead to the situation above.

People who experience bad luck and end up living in their cars or on the streets temporarily generally accept offers of housing, especially if they have school aged children. But a significant number of people do not want to follow rules of living in a society; they truly want to live on the streets where traditional rules do not apply.

That's why I always ask someone complaining about the homeless what their solution is, r100. How do you deal with that latter group in a humane way?

Anyone remember the DTLA scene in the early 80s? I used to go to punk rock shows/parties there, and hang out at the Atomic Cafe in Little Tokyo, the best jukebox in town. There was another dive bar, I think called Al's nearby. I wish I could remember all these names. Fun times back then. Punk meets artsy crowd.

There is no solution, R101.

R25 California is the most polluted state in the US despite the regulations

I've always found L.A. (at least the city proper) a big disappointment. It all looks so nice in photos and from the air, but once you get on the street it's a major letdown. Granted there are some very beautiful areas of the city, but overall the city has a worn and seedy look. The hordes of people you clearly don't want any involvement with are everywhere. The less than friendly attitude of most people your encounter is off putting. It's like most people assume you're going do something bad to them or are just rude beyond belief. The air quality is so bad it often makes the whole place look like it's on fire. I never feel happy or comfortable in California until I get far out of the cities. The Lake Tahoe area is heaven on earth to me. And I love the low desert around Palm Springs.

[quote]The air quality is so bad it often makes the whole place look like it's on fire.

Nice, more times than not, r105. Here's a current view from my window. When it's bad, you can barely see the hills.

When shoes are hanging outside means a drug dealer is nearby .

I lived in L.A. for 6 months in 1975, and the air was incredibly smoggy. I moved to L.A. from the bay area in '93 for work, and the air is getting progressively cleaner.

However, the air quality in the Bay Area has gotten worse for the past 7 years. While I like L.A., I do miss the Bay Area something fierce. Every time I work somewhere else for a period of time (Boston, New York, Waikiki, Toronto, London, Bucharest) and am flying into LAX, I always think what a dump L.A. is.

I was a kid in the 70's and it was smoggy and we had school canceled due to smog.

CA has successfully eliminated most smog. It is amazing to see the blue sky in Pasadena, compared to what it was like in the 70s.

Take a look at the Adam 12 episodes that are on MeTV every day at 5pm. They were filmed in LA back in the 70s and it is incredible how smoggy it was in many of the scenes filmed. It truly does look like the whole city is on fire. I was watching one day last week and there was a scene on the street where the smog was so bad you could barely see the houses on the other side of an empty lot from where they were filming. How people could (or would) have lived in that is unfathomable to me.

I pulled these two photos out of my archives. I took these photos over 35 years ago in the 80s to show people back home how smoggy LA was. The top one is from is from the Griffith Park Observatory and the bottom one is from my hotel room at the Sheraton Universal.

I'm glad things have gotten better. The population of greater LA has undoubtedly increased dramatically in the 35 years since I took these photos. I don't even want to think of how bad it would be if they had not taken measures to reduce the smog. I doubt the city would even be livable today.

[quote]With it's congested traffic, inflated prices for everything, and crime everywhere, LA has been over for a long time.

Factually incorrect. LA has been going through a growth boom like never before. People leaving NYC and SF can live in LA at 1/2 the price. Plus lots of people from the UK moving to Los Angeles. Also because it's more affordable than NYC basically becoming the creative hub for artists and creatives of all types who are not filthy rich.

Greetings!

Check out this vintage picture of the Disneyland entrance in 1965 when parking was only 25cents. The smog was so thick the picture looks almost dystopian.

The account's name is Vintage Los Angeles and it has some great vintage pictures of 60s, 70s and 80s LA.

Spire 73 is fun, tallest outdoor bar on the west coast.

I don't think that's (all) smog, r113. That looks early in the morning and could be May gray or June gloom. And is Anaheim known to be smoggy?

During the pandemic, LA had one day that was reported as the cleanest air in the entire country! It's come a long way since the 70's. Everyone laughed and complained back then about smog checks and making car manufactures install catalytic converters but it worked. The air is much cleaner than 30 years ago. We rarely have smog alerts anymore. Back then it was like every day.

I made my first visit to Los Angeles in 1979, staying with a friend high up in Laurel Canyon. I felt I was in paradise - the sun, the sky the vegetation, the men (not necessarily in that order). The whole idea of Los Angeles seemed wonderful, back then. I've returned regularly over the decades and have stayed all over the place - Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, WeHo, Beverly Hills, Studio City, Glendale, Pasadena - although it certainly isn't what it was back then, I still love the idea of Los Angeles. Now that I am retired, I had planned to spend a couple of months there this winter, renting through VRBO. COVID put an end to those plans, but I intend to do it next January, if the stars align.

[quote]although it certainly isn't what it was back then

What/who is?

I grew up just outside of dtla in the 80s. I was a latchkey kid and would play ball on the blacktop every day after school. I had to walk up a steep hill to get home. Often, I was huffing and puffing till I got to the top where there was a church. I would sit on the church steps clutching my chest. I mentioned it to my doctor but nothing came of it. I'm convinced it screwed up my lungs.

I used to love Los Angeles, being a Cali native I have affection for my home State. In the last ten years or so, I find myself wanting to leave. Over crowding and it is very expensive. I make good money in the tech industry, but my retirement pay will be more substantial if I choose to relocate to Nevada or New Mexico.

LA has actually come a long way for clean air since the 40's and 50's, when the air was unbreathable. It stayed like that until the mid 80's but it has since changed radically.

However, the bad reputation lives on thanks to many older folks in particular who haven't gotten on with the times.

I was here in the early '80s and I don't remember the smog being severe.

I moved to LA in 1993. The morning news used to show an air quality map every morning – green for good, yellow for moderate, orange for severe, red for extreme: stay indoors. Those maps disappeared from weather reports about 20 years ago, unless there's a nearby fire. The SCAQMD was in the news all the time. I just had to look it up to see if it still exists.

Except on days with morning fog/gloom/gray/haze, or on a realyl stormy day, I can see DTLA from my house near Long Beach.

[quote]I used to love Los Angeles, being a Cali native

I call BS just because you used that word. By native does that mean you moved to California from NJ a few years ago?

^^^^^ This. Nobody from California *ever* calls it "Cali." Never, ever, ever.

Me too. Been here for 30 years now, and I love it.

Yep, cleanest air in the world, well for one day at least. But seriously it's 100 times better than it was 20 or 30 years ago. I can see 20 miles from the mountains to the beach almost every day if it's not overcast.

The smog in Los Angeles was particularly bad back in the late '60s into the '70s. I've lived in LA off and on since the '50s. I'll sometimes see old films and TV shows like Adam-12 and recall how shitty it was. Like another person here, I remember those days when you could barely see across the street. It has really changed, just amazingly changed. I got the sense that many restrictions were lifted, or possibly ignored? in LA during the Trump years. By the last year of his reign, the air quality seemed to be shifting back to poor and this concerned me. Did anyone else get that sense?

The fires didn't help, r128.

R129 Yes it is the fires. CA still has many more regulations on top of Federal ones.

Too much crime.

Wrong R125. I am a native Angeleno, born at Queen of the Angels Hospital in Echo Park, now closed. I can call my home state Cali and have and will.

40 million people have the autonomy to call their home state whatever they want.

Calm the fuck down R125. No one said you cant call it what you want. What we all said is most people form California would never refer to it as Cali. It's mostly what wannabes call it. Just like NYC, people don't want you calling it the Big Apple but I am sure there are some natives that still run around calling it that and look just as stupid as you do with Cali.

^^^Correction, R132 not R125.

As much as there are beautiful little oases in LA, the issues have piled up. Combined with the obscene prices, I no longer wish to live there. Visiting is fun.

Where do you live, R135?

I dread every time I have to go there for work.

[quote] the issues have piled up......

This is happening everywhere. Question is WHICH issues are people prepared to deal with?

Homelessness?

Rednecks?

Crime?

Lack of access to amenities?

Ignorance?

Racism?

Etc....

I Live in NYC. And while we have many similar issues - LA was always an escape from that. You could live in a house instead of an apartment, you could live in your little oasis relatively untouched by the ugliness. Now I would have to pay almost the same rent for an only slightly larger apartment - and would need a car. The homeless situation in the West is much worse than NYC.

R138 Horrible issues ARE everywhere, but as others have said LA was an escape. I. lived there when it was so much nicer. To go back now is like a different place. The first think you notice immediately is the population increase which makes everything worse. There are people everywhere, traffic is an absolute nightmare, there's a ton of graffiti and literally garbage on the streets now, even in the "nice" areas. It was depressing just being there. And that is without even addressing the high cost for everything, rampant homelessness, pollution (you can see the smog below you from the airplane) and crime.

Maybe you could love it if you didn't know what it was like years ago? It has definitely taken a turn for the worse. I would never want to live there now. A lot of the stars don't even live there anymore. They go there and do their gig and as soon at is over they get the hell out.

Loved it then, r140, love it now....

Also depends on where you live. My mother has lived in Manhattan Beach for 30 years and it was and still is an idyllic beach community. M Beach has very little public parking, a strategy that keeps the beaches open and clean. Hermosa B does this as well. Neither has big public lots. Only a few street spaces and a garage that is expensive.

Some of the suburbs are very nice. No homeless, crowding, trash, or the other shitty stuff mentioned. Where I live is exceptional. I'm not sharing, it's my own wonderful secret place.

R113 Allison Martino is Al Martino's daughter. She has some great stuff like old photos and film footage of Go Go dancers at the Whisky a Go Go. Her Hamburger Hamlet posts are fun.

Typo correction: Alison Martino.

When you say LA everyone assumes you live in Hollywood, Beverly Hills or Santa Monica. The truth is MOST of LA is not like that. The vast majority of LA is still suburbs where the streets are quite clean and nondescript. I live by the beach and it's quite, peaceful, laid back. I just don't live in Venice beach which is crowded, touristy and dirty. It's like assuming everyone in NYC lives in a penthouse overlooking central park.

[quote] I Live in NYC. And while we have many similar issues - LA was always an escape from that. You could live in a house instead of an apartment, you could live in your little oasis relatively untouched by the ugliness. Now I would have to pay almost the same rent for an only slightly larger apartment - and would need a car. The homeless situation in the West is much worse than NYC.

I moved from Manhattan to LA. Was overwhelmed after living in the crowded isle (replete with occasional “blizzards” and humid-searing-asphalt-summers) for over a decade. Was not expecting LA to be an improvement, but it was.

My experience of LA has been surprisingly wonderful.

[quote] When you say LA everyone assumes you live in Hollywood, Beverly Hills or Santa Monica. The truth is MOST of LA is not like that. The vast majority of LA is still suburbs where the streets are quite clean and nondescript.

^This. Definitely this.

What is better about LA in your experience R147?

[quote]Some of the suburbs are very nice. No homeless, crowding, trash, or the other shitty stuff mentioned. Where I live is exceptional. I'm not sharing, it's my own wonderful secret place.

R143 I feel that way about Altadena and Sierra Madre.

I was born and raised in Rancho Cucamonga and grew up in the 1970's. I remember the smog alerts we had as kids where our lungs felt heavy if we stayed outdoors during it. I moved to the Valley in the 90's and have been here ever since. I love California in general as our weather is pretty great but I hate when we get the horrible heat in the summer. I recall it going up to 115 degrees a few years ago and that's when I wanted to get the hell out. But that doesn't happen too often.

The homeless problem was always bad, but it's spreading like a cancer throughout the suburbs. I've also noticed where I live people who own dogs just let them shit all over the sidewalks and never clean it up. So I have to be careful if I walk anywhere. I love the food here...excellent Mexican and Italian food if you are in the mood. The rents are sky high now. I'm looking to move but a 1 bedroom even here in the Valley start at $2200. It's ridiculous and I'm not sure how most people can afford to live here. Luckily, I make pretty good money but most of the jobs here are not great money making opportunities. The traffic has always been bad (even in the 1950's if you look at old pics). But the air quality now is great and I do like the diversity of people around me. You just have to plan accordingly if you are driving more than say, 20 miles anywhere. Traffic only used to be bad on the weekdays before 10am and after 3pm, but now it's really every single day, no matter what time. It can take an hour and a half to go 30 miles sometimes. It's crazy.

Ha, r150, last night had dinner with friends in DTLA at 5:30pm. 3 out of four of us (including myself) were 25 minutes late because of traffic. I'm in WeHo, one friend in Hollywood, 2nd friend in Pasadena. The fourth person lived in Frogtownish and was only 15 minutes late.

Yup, r151. Downtown LA is best gotten to by the subway, but that can be a pain if you aren't near a stop.

R151 that was asking for trouble. Multiple cross town travels right at the end of the work day? What masochist came up with that plan?

[quote] There are people everywhere, traffic is an absolute nightmare, there's a ton of graffiti and literally garbage on the streets now, even in the "nice" areas.

Thank God NY has none of this shit.

A lot of that graffiti is very creative...

[Quote]Thank God NY has none of this shit.

R154 NYC has ALWAYS had that shit! LOL

You COMPLETELY missed the point. Los Angeles did not have it everywhere the way it is now.

Ya know, r156...ya can't go home again.

R157 Don't I know it.

I wish I lived in Hollywood now instead of 30 years ago when it was really a rough neighborhood. It's so gentrified now. Nice restaurants, hotels, cleaned up streets, new apartments. Now its sort of faux rough urban trendy. Oh well, at least the cops were too busy running away from the riots on Halloween to notice me hiking up to the Hollywood sign to take picks as I was able to physically touch it without being harassed by some cop for trespassing.

The good ol' sign...

[quote] What is better about LA in your experience [R147]?

1) Weather (swimming in an unheated pool all last week). Blue clear skies even if cooler...today with a high of 68F.

2) Lovely neighbors

3) Space: lived in downtown Manhattan with a view of Lady liberty in historic building that was newly renovated, but no washer/dryer, limited floor plan, limited windows, etc. In LA have garden, decks, pool, grass, trees, lovely windows, etc.

4) Quiet neighbourhood, etc.

5) Proximity to varied landscapes: Sea, Mountains, Valleys, Deserts, Farms, Parks but also urban amenities....

6) International Airport with non-stop flights

7) Wildlife: birds, coyotes, sea lions/seals, dolphins/whales (saw Grey whale cow and calf from deck a few days ago....)

8) Accessibility to locally grown fresh produce year round

Challenges:

1) Vehicular traffic: especially on interstates

2) Reports of rising crime and homelessness

*Note that I have lived in the US East, South and Midwest and friends/colleagues in those areas report similar challenges of 1 & 2.

3) Higher cost of living....but easier than NYC: especially during Covid.

LA also has the best Mexican food, not that fake El Torito, Taco Bell crap. But beyond that, many, many varieties of ethic food from Lebanese to Korean BBQ. I get so tired of east coasters "but they don't have good pizza" BS. LA has come a long way since the 70's. There are many good authentic Italian pizza places from guy right off the boat from Italy, not across the bridge from Jersey.

NYC dwellers love to belittle LA. They prattle on about how simple and stupid everything-LA is, especially its natives, but fail to realize NYC is over and has been for a very long time.

Having lived in L.A. (specifically West Hollywood) for nigh 3 decades, I have noticed that there is a 3 year period for East Coast transplants to realize that they actually like/love L.A. when they realize that they can escape L.A. (#5 in r161's list) in a matter of 20-60 minutes). Personally, I would rather live in the East Bay of the Bay Area, but there is no solid film industry there to sustain my career.

Ha, Laguna Woods , I had to look that one up. You mean Leisure World !!!

I've lived in both and love both, r163. I've never understood the bashing of one over the other.

[Quote]Ha, Laguna Woods , I had to look that one up. You mean Leisure World !!!

I had to look it up too and it's a 30min drive from the beach. Why would anyone live there and not in a small beach community?

Hey, who remembers the sappy flop "Grand Canyon," from 1991?

It was a heavy glimpse into the throes of Los Angeles in its most recent decline. Pre-Rodney King, Pre-Riots, and Pre-Northridge, it explored LA as an emotional and actual warzone, but also as a strange place where unexplained things can still happen.

someone's been drinking in LA

I love the film Grand Canyon!

I went on a business trip to L.A. some years ago and had very little time to site see. Being the cinephile I am, I had to visit Grauman’s Chinese Theater and the footprints. I remember my co-workers telling me that since I’m visiting and don’t know the city well, to make sure I leave before sunset. That whole area around the theater did seem kinda seedy.

The Uber driver drove me around Beverly Hills. I thought it was beautiful. Santa Monica seem pretty laid back and cool. Liked the energy there.

I miss the seedy Hollywood, much like the seediness of West Hollywood, when the hustlers and drag queen prostitution whores used to litter the streets. Now it is all these goddamn overpriced mixed use towers.

I don’t understand the attraction to the grungy ugliness of Hollywood or downtown. Way overpriced. WeHo is nice enough.

I don't go to Hollywood or downtown often, r172. But when I do, I have a real appreciation of the history of the different areas and buildings. I find it enjoyable. And yes, you do have to be willing to look past the growth in the homeless population.

I'd never LIVE in Hollywood, but it's a fun neighborhood to go out and about in.

R121, the homeless are the greasiest threat to LA

R164, what about moving to Atlanta? Cost of living must be a lot cheaper and it sounds like they have a ton of productions.

r176- I work in Atlanta a lot actually. I get paid more working as a non-local than a local. And as much as I like Atlanta, it doesn't hold a candle to the Bay Area. If it were situated 30 minutes from an ocean, I would consider it. Besides, the people I know who moved from L.A. to Atlanta were the bottom feeders in our industry- they couldn't make it. Only one is doing well being Department Head, the others are working more than they would in L.A., but not like I am- I also Department Head.

R162 One thing underappreciated is that LA is, perhaps, the most international city in the world. More Mexicans than any city except DF. More Salvadorans than any city except San Salvador. More Armenians than any place outside Armenia. More Koreans than any place outside Korea. More Filipinos than anyplace outside of the Philippines. More Samoans than anyplace outside of Samoa. Very large Chinese, Russian, Cuban, Guatemalan, Brazilian, Indian, Thai, Vietnamese communities. Many of these communities have large middle class folks, who see LA through a very different lens than those writing on DL.

Smog: I was born at White Memorial Hospital in Boyle Heights in 1950. I grew up in Northeast LA. In elementary school there were "smog days" when kids couldn't go outside. If you did, simply walking across the playground created this nauseous pain in the chest. Regulation helped immediately. Much better air quality in the 70s, and every decade since it has improved. Goddamn government regulation!!

R150 Compared to NYC the wage scale in LA has not keep pace with the cost of rent. Unless you want to live in a desert hell hole like Palmdale and spend 4 hours each day commuting into city. For those folks the COVID required work from home is a godsend.

[quote]Ha, Laguna Woods , I had to look that one up. You mean Leisure World !!!

We prefer to call it Seizure World.

[quote]Compared to NYC the wage scale in LA has not keep pace with the cost of rent.

Are you high? What industry are you talking about. NYC is way over priced for average professional jobs. The cost of housing in LA is 1/2 that of NYC. Salaries do not double if were to take the same job from LA and relocate to NYC. You get a little bump that's it. Check GlassDoor if you don't believe me. That's why there has been a mass exodus of middle class, and creatives leaving NYC moving to LA. You literally cant live in NYC without some job with a six figure salary. Creatives especially do not typically fall in that range unless they are famous. That's why NYC is becoming so boring and losing all it's young talent.

All housing decreased a bit in 2022 compared to 2021 (interesting, in that inflation is affecting other goods and services) - but here the costs in US cities for a one bedroom apartment in 2022:

New York, NY: $3,260

San Francisco, CA: $2,850

Boston, MA: $2,720

San Jose, CA: $2,390

Miami, FL: $2,340

Los Angeles, CA: $2,260

Both cities are insanely expensive but LA you get a (little) more space for your money and no winter. Thanks!

I guess because LA has so many undesirable neighborhoods - but $2,260 seems low for LA. A 1BR for $3,260 also seems high for NyC overall -especially post-Covid - maybe West Village or newer buildings. All those numbers surprise me.

In terms of traffic in LA, I almost never experience it. You just have to live on the closer side to work. And then, I think subconsciously I just know the times of day not to drive, and what routes to take depending on the time of day. Like, on summer nights, it would never even cross my mind to go near Hollywood, or anywhere that would cause you to have to drive through Hollywood, least you get stuck in Hollywood Bowl traffic. A fate worse than death.

R186 yeah, it's only BAD at certain times and they're not that hard to avoid if you plan.

I have two horrible experiences that I remember but were my fault for not planning ahead.

I left a meeting in Century City at 4:30p and tried to get to Burbank. I was stuck in the Hills for over an hour. And there was no cell service so YAY!

Lesson learned: I should've seen a movie or gotten dinner instead.

Last summer, I was stupid enough to pass through Hollywood on the 101 on a Bowl night. Enough said.

LA should pass ordinance that any job that can be done remotely, should be WFH. There are plenty of service and on site jobs to keep the streets busy as it is. Every job that can be completed by pecking at a keyboard can stay home. Maybe add caveat that x amount of the jobs have to be filled by county or state residents. If people don't like it, they can lump it. Not paying people to work LA jobs and live in Idaho.

In the 70s and 80s I used to live in Venice and work east of Downtown. I worked a split shift. Because I was beach addicted, often I would travel the Santa Monica to DTLA route twice a day. Sometimes spending 6 hours in a commute. I was young and stupid and also would drive all around the city after work looking for trouble.

Youth is wasted on the young.

No, after COVID retired me.... my daily commute is from the sofa to the dining room table.

72 suburbs in search of a city...

The key to happiness in LA is to live where you work, where you like to play, and where you can live life. Location is everything here.

One of my favorite things about LA is the movie culture. The New Beverly, The Vista, The Egyptian, The Nuart, I love all the different options for seeing classic and random movies.

Given that LA County itself has a population larger than forty one of the USA’s states, it’s no wonder that traffic and crowds can at times be an issue.

Los Angeles County has the 3rd largest metropolitan area economy in the world, with a nominal GDP of more than $1.0 trillion. At 4,083 square miles and with 88 incorporated cities and many unincorporated areas, it is larger than the combined areas of Delaware and Rhode Island. The county is home to more than one-quarter of California residents and is one of the most ethnically diverse counties in the United States. Its county seat, Los Angeles, is also California's most populous city and the second most populous city in the United States, with about four million residents.

That said, there are jewels to be found in the area. Know this to be true as a resident. And its weather is some of the best - if not THE BEST - in the continental USA. I am reminded of a trip to Hawaii pre-pandemic during the Christmas holidays where we returned home only to find the weather warmer and more sunny in SoCal than while on “holiday” in Kauai and Maui. It was actually a relief to return back to California at that time.

R193 The current "great weather" is, in part, a result of the worst drought in over 1,000 years.

And "weather' in LA is full of microclimates. It could be cold and windy in Santa Monica and over 100 degrees in Tarzana and hot and smoggy in the San Gabiel valley, and cool and clear breeze in Palos Verdes. I'd say San Diego has better weather overall.

Neil Simon summed up the best and the worst of LA in threes sentences:

"When its 100 degrees in New York, it's 72 in Los Angeles. When its 30 degrees in New York, in Los Angeles it's still 72. However, there are 6 million interesting people in New York, and only 72 in Los Angeles.”

[quote] I have lived in LA for 30 years, been to Grand Central maybe twice. It's not a big thing, maybe for tourist or locals living in downtown but that's about it. Down town LA is not the center of LA. It's come a long way gone through some amazing growth spurts but it's still not most cities where people go unless they work there. That's what outsides always get wrong, it's not like San Francisco or NYC in that regard.

I've lived in SF and would consider the Financial District to be the "downtown" equivalent. The Financial District is dead at night. Maybe Covid (working remotely) will change things, but almost any downtown (courts, office buildings) area will be dead at night. It's inherent.

Agree that Grand Central Market is blah. I don't care if it's "not bad." For the hype, it should be a lot better.

[quote]"When its 100 degrees in New York, it's 72 in Los Angeles. When its 30 degrees in New York, in Los Angeles it's still 72. However, there are 6 million interesting people in New York, and only 72 in Los Angeles.”

Except that quote is so old all the iterating people moved to LA. NYC is so expensive all that is left is rich people and Realtors, the most boring lot you can ever find. Creatives and interesting people cant afford to live there.

[quote]And "weather' in LA is full of microclimates. It could be cold and windy in Santa Monica and over 100 degrees in Tarzana and hot and smoggy in the San Gabiel valley, and cool and clear breeze in Palos Verdes. I'd say San Diego has better weather overall.

Yes, but micro-climates are a good thing. Too hot in the valley, take a drive to Santa Monica and enjoy the day. Too cold by the water, head inland for dinner. Snow on the mountains while catching some sun rays on the beach is what's unique about LA weather.

The traffic, oh yeah.

Traffic is not as bad as it used to be ever since Covid. Lots of people now working from home permanently.

And the traffic is only bad at certain times and you can work around it

R200, is the traffic really better now?

Los Angeles has three temperatures:

>80°: damn it’s hot

70°-79°: normal expected temperature

<69°: damn it’s cold

R202 The shortest route to work in DTLA involves my driving the 110 and the dreaded 405. During rush hour direction for both. Since September, my commute to work is rarely more than 30 minutes. It ranged from 40-75 minutes prepandemic. My commute home has not been more than 50 minutes since the pandemic, with an average of 35 minutes. Before COVID, it was 45-90 minutes. So I definitely notice a difference since people went back to the office last fall.

But nothing beats the 22 minute drive to work, and 24 minute drive home during the pandemic. I still went into my office every Wednesday and it was unbelievably fast. (I live exactly 20 miles door-to-door.)

During the pandemic, I could go 80mpr on the the 405 from Long Beach to the valley without slowing down once, even past LAX. Now that things are basically back to normal, I can still get from Long Beach to Downtown LA in about 38 minutes between 11:00am - 2pm going the legal speed limit of 65. It's amazing, better than when I first moved here 20 years ago.

I think traffic has gone back to normal, especially around me in West Hollywood going anywhere.

[quote] I think traffic has gone back to normal, especially around me in West Hollywood going anywhere.

Perhaps that’s true for you in WeHo, R206, but I live in a coastal area and still find the traffic much improved whenever I navigate LA.

Short of the very active pandemic (March -summer 2020), find it the best in decades.

LA has the greatest variety of ethnic food anywhere in the entire world and it's all affordable. There's no other city that compares, period.

R207 is correct, you WeHo queens need to get out more. The rest of LA is a lot easier to navigate these days.

Tried the SoCal thing. Beautiful on a postcard but the people ruined it for me.

Man, from March 2020 to about February 2021 traffic in LA was a dream. It was pretty much easy any time of day. And you could really appreciate the genius of the freeway system in the area. Zip zip zip all around town. Harvard Heights to WeHo to Sherman Oakes to NoHo- it was so great.

I was in between jobs and didn't wanna sit around so I delivered for Postmates and had a wonderful time, for the most part. Now I have an awesome job in my chosen profession, but I do have to admit, I miss the Postmates gig slightly. So much freedom, and you could really up your tips with just a few key words and a smile. Experimenting with that was fun.

r209, I recently drove to DTLA, Santa Monica, and Pasadena, and it was pretty bad. Where else do you expect fo me to drive to?

Try long Beach R212, Maybe over the hill to the Valley? When did you go? Right during rush hour? There is no freeway from WeHo to Santa Monica, that drive on Sunset or SM blvd has always been slow because there are hundreds of stop lights. Even with no one on it, still going to be a long drive. Did you take Barham Blvd over the hill to the 134? It's twice as fast to get to Pasadena that way than going through downtown.

R213 Hence,,,

Lol, that is sadly true, r234.

r213, I've lived in West Hollywood for almost 3 decades, so I do know all the old shortcuts, I will gift you with two: during the Hollywood Bowl season, enter/exit on the Cahuenga exit; take Willoughby instead of Fountain between La Cienega and Gower.

Next stop, Willoughby!

I lived on Highland right across from the Hollywood Bowl when I was young. Cheap apartment all I could afford. I know all the shortcuts. Believe me, after living on that street during the summer season, NOTHING seems like a bad driving anywhere in LA. What really killed me as after I got settled was the car insurance. They based the rate on the number of accidents within your area. The person on the phone at the time giving me the quote literally said "are you sitting down? "