THEATRE GOSSIP#453: MacBeth: The Scottish Tragedy - turn round 3 times and spit!

Perhaps. But about 10 minutes too late.

I did a search, 'onest I did!

Damn you, Muriel and your useless search function, too!

Maybe this one can get bumped later.

Or not. Thanks, r1 & r2

[quote] Did I do it right?

No, the title must always contain the word “edition”

OP, you came up with a much better title. I’m using your thread, and thanks for the extra effort.

bump for the better title

It’s only unlucky if you say it in a theatre, where it should be termed ‘The Scottish Play.’ Other than that have at it.

I'm so confused. Is this the thread?

Naked chorus boys

Yes, this is the thread. I’m OP of the other thread. The naked guys are here. So this is the thread to use.

It’s also wrong because it should be Macbeth not MacBeth.

Jesus, this thread is a disaster already.

There's still time to turn this ship around, r12

Here's what's clear about MJ The Musical so far: People aren't coming. You can go online and see there are hundreds of tickets available for next week. And it's not about the bad reviews. It's about it's too soon. The Pedophile stories are too raw in people's minds, whether they are true or not. Also, everyone is tired of the Broadway star rip off jukebox shows -- Cher tanked, Ain't Too Proud lasted barely over a year, TINA is dying. Why spend $150 when you can see the real thing on YouTube? And "MJ" just feels like a cheap rip off. No way around that.

I want to agree with you r14 but at the same time MJ is the only show that 'civilian' people in my life have asked about or seem interested in. I don't know how it will play out but what else is there for the masses now whenever they might come back?

And I was hoping for nude chorus boys

Same.

Fine...

^^ thighs. ^^

So the Simon will be open in the fall?

Is it true that Fantasia Barrino was cast in THE COLOR PURPLE movie musical? If so, this is her deserved due for not getting Effie in DREAMGIRLS. I remember it came down between her and Jennifer Hudson. Maybe now Fantasia can get her own Oscar -- in Lead Actress, to boot!

The Simon will be open July 4.

"Black No More" is like watching "Anyone Can Whistle" if it were written by the folks at WSYWAT.

Both thread titles suck. At least one of them knows it.

Oh go soak your head, r24. Almost all of the thread titles lately have been terrible. At least this OP had a little bit of flair, instead of just “I couldn’t think of anything” or done variation.

No go ahead. Your mother just called and it’s time for your self-immolation.

I know it's never going to happen, but imagine Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Cattrall in a production of Old Acquaintance.

R26 Arsenic, and Old Lace would suit them better.

SJP in the title role of a revival...

WAR HORSE

One of the oddest things in MJ is Lynn Nottage's book. I don't know if she was strangled into it by the estate, but the dialogue is so deadly earnest. Jackson being told over and over again about the desperate financial straits he's in is like something out of 19th century melodrama. You expect his financial advisor to come in and say they've tied Bubbles to the railroad tracks. You also don't get much of the famous choreography for some of the numbers. They build all night to "Thriller," and reveal a big elaborate set piece, but then the number is a dud. The songs are great and the cast is talented, but apart from the Jackson apologists and tourists (who are not in town), I don't know who it is for.

I will say that dancer Raymond Baynard in the ensemble is mesmerizing. Massive guy, huge arms. He's so swole he shouldn't be able to move, but he's lithe and graceful, with great technique. At least you get to look at him for a few hours.

[quote]I will say that dancer Raymond Baynard in the ensemble is mesmerizing. Massive guy, huge arms. He's so swole he shouldn't be able to move, but he's lithe and graceful, with great technique. At least you get to look at him for a few hours.

There’s this also as a visual aid. And it’s from Hamilton so is sure to get MILLIONS of clicks

and one more image since there was a request for nude chorus boys

"Tie Bubbles to the Railroad Tracks" is the musical I want to see...

I think I like green.

[quote]I will say that dancer Raymond Baynard in the ensemble is mesmerizing. Massive guy, huge arms. He's so swole he shouldn't be able to move, but he's lithe and graceful, with great technique. At least you get to look at him for a few hours.

His body is gasp-inducing, and the production has the good sense to show it off from the very first moment, when he walks downstage during the pre-show and stretches in a tank top.

His body is indeed a temple. Not to mention a brick shithouse.

Is he playing Joe?

Because I’d let him beat me like one of his kids.

If he hasn't done Broadway Bares, he simply must.

Nottage should have both Pulitzers rescinded after her book for MJ.

Good Lord, The Tap Dance Kid is godawful. Encores shelved Love Life for this piece of dreck? Lots of empty seats at City Center last night and even more after intermission.

Lena/Jamaica

[quote]Nottage should have both Pulitzers rescinded after her book for MJ.

Agreed. A complete embarrassment.

Can’t really blame Lear though can you

You can blame her, yes, for choosing this show and scuttling Love Life, which many of the core Encores audience has been waiting for for years.

I blame her simply for having that fucking ridiculous name.

Lear is a silly PC choice to lead an institution whose mandate she has no affinity for.

R44 why did she change shows if LOVE LIFE was the one people wanted?

[quote] why did she change shows if LOVE LIFE was the one people wanted?

Covid was the reason given for it not to be performed.

I was an Encores subscriber for years, then stopped. I still go now and then when they do something interesting, which is increasingly rare.

Short of major surgery (and a complete administrative housecleaning), Encores will probably not survive for that much longer. Their elderly subscriber base is dwindling every year. DeBessonet, Tesori, and company's efforts to reach new audiences are well-meant failures, and yes, this new season is already an embarrassment. They have less and less luck casting first-rate talent. Finally, they've already DONE most of the good material, with mixed results.

How to save it? I'm sure folks here have some ideas.

Lear is precisely the wrong person to put in charge of a program like that. Why do they keep trying to put someone hip and cutting edge in there? I hate to say it, but they need some caftan-and-pearls personality to take over; the otherwise talentless Seth Rudetsky or the like.

[quote]Lear is precisely the wrong person to put in charge of a program like that.

Preachin to the choir.

The slippery slope of producing these more and more expansively - from those origins with formally dressed performers at mics - has led them down a bad path. They bite bite off more than they can chew, and the shows are less and less fun, and audiences and critics judge them more and more as quasi-productions. It's probably asking too much of the teams and the performers too. Seth seems like a good idea r50.

r41, you made my week! Had no idea that clip existed. Lena is on fire and so much more theatrical than even on the cast album (where she's terrific). Love the score and would have killed to have seen the show live.

Re Encores, the salient point noted above is that those who want to see LOVE LIFE or 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVE or ME AND JULIET are dying out. Younger audiences, however, don't want to see TAP DANCE or THE LIFE either. I was a charter subscriber with a 5th row center seat who didn't re-up this year, knowing that if something wonderful is produced, I can always get a seat, undoubtedly at a discount. The series was grand while it lasted, though, and left many great memories in its wake.

I’m the same r54. For years I’ve been in 8th row center and attended all the talkbacks. I dropped my subscription because these shows no longer interested me. I saw the original production of The Life and don’t need to see another and I’m a bit weary of Into the Woods as I’ve seen several productions.

I had never seen The Tap Dance Kid, and was curious. Boy, what an awful show! Some of the worst lyrics ever and that book! At the talkback, they said that they did a major rewrite of the book, and I thought, wow, and that's what you came up with?? Interesting that there are so many songs in the second act, one right after another that do nothing and go nowhere, just repeat the title over and over, and then, when you get to the big number, there's no song at all, just tap dancing. Poor Josh Henry plays the most thankless part imaginable, and then gets a turgid 11 o'clock number that comes out of nowhere, but he somehow made it work, and was the highlight of the show. The first act Fabulous Feet number was fun, and the cast really were great, and not the problem, but why they picked this is beyond me. Hey, they could have chosen Jamaica! Sad to see Encores going down the drain...

So wait, 3 or 4 of you have seen Tap Dance Kid but you all the Encores audience is dying out from OLD age

What have we just concluded about the demographics of the DL Theatre Thread?

Something we always knew about the demographics of the DL Theatre Threads r57.

They no longer attract stars to headline Encores because the shows are now produced and designed as full productions, not concerts, but with less than 2 weeks of rehearsal.

Why would any name actor want to put themselves through that kind of pressure and critical judgment and for so little pay as well? I don't know if Encores could ever go back to a concert-like presentation, but I think it would be a wise improvement.

What I'll miss most are the recordings they've done: Out of This World, St. Louis Woman, Call Me Madam, Face the Music, Paint Your Wagon, Pal Joey, The New Moon.....all brilliant, if not on the City Center Stage, at least in their recordings.

Are they running out of old shows worth doing or are they running out of audiences who might be interested?

Or if they were to revert back to a more concert – style presentation, could they attract better names to elevate the appeal of titles that might be obscure but worth seeing/hearing?

There are a few remaining early Kern, Porter and Gershwin musicals, as well as more of Kurt Weill's American output. I wouldn't mind seeing things like Duke Ellington's Beggar's Holiday or Fats Waller's Early to Bed, if materials exist. There are shows like Redhead, New Girl in Town, Take Me Along that they haven't gotten to yet, as well as a few pretty enjoyable flops like Foxy, Fade Out-Fade In or Drat! The Cat. They could also do a few seasons of shows they mangled the first time around, like Allegro, House of Flowers, No Strings. But as others have said, the audience for Encores! is dying out and there would be limited to no audience for these titles.

I'd love to see Encores do The Happy Time, Hallelujah, Baby!, 110 in the Shade (I know it's had revivals), High Spirits, How Now, Dow Jones, Dear World, Henry Sweet Henry, Flora the Red Menace, Louisiana Purchase, The Gay Life, Plain and Fancy, Milk and Honey, Two by Two, Wildcat, All-American, Wish You Were Here, Take Me Along......and, yes.....Bajour! There are so many still to be produced.

R62 And Angela could still play Countess Aurelia!

Aren't there also titles (gasp!) from the 70s and 80s that might qualify?

I think casting would make lesser known titles be compelling.

All good ideas, but none likely as long as Ms. Lear is in charge.

And will still be served a woke Thoroughly Modern Millie?

God forbid.

And in this one, Millie will be a closeted lesbian, more interested in Miss Dorothy. ... Oops, sorry, that was the original film.

When they get in the elevator, Miliie says to Miss Dorothy, "Going down?" And chaos ensues!

I want Love Life. AND a recording! Fuck Lear and her woke PC agenda. No one who attends Encores needed or wanted to see Tap Dance Kid. And from the Playbill interview with Billy Porter he plans to remove all the humor from The Life with his trans-centric script rewrite.

The other really jarring thing with Tap Dance Kid, was that the entracte was performed behind the curtain. I don't think I've ever seen that before in all the years they've performed. For Encores, that's sacrilege!

I remember there was tap dancing and I remember Martine Allard and...that's about it.

Im sad about Love Life, it seems really interesting and I like clips from other productions.

Music Man was fun, quickly paced with a good ensemble . Lots of young kid dancers making their debuts. The audience seemed to like Rock Island, Ice Cream /barbershop song, Marian the Librarian, and Pick A Little song the best.

I dont see a lot of family friendly musicals so the wholesomeness was nice (I usually love stuff like Cabaret and Company). The backdrops were too goofy looking and didnt seem like a good fit with the elaborate costumes.

I was at least interested in the Encore's Thoroughly Modern Millie just to hear the revised book. It seemed like the entire production was geared to getting a less offensive depiction of Mrs. Meers in yellowface and her Asian henchmen (and getting the show back into high school circulation). Covid hit before they announced any casting besides Ashley Park in the lead so have always been very curious if anyone had yet been approached to for the other roles.

"The backdrops were too goofy looking and didn't seem like a good fit with the elaborate costumes."

Which is mighty strange since Santo Loquasto designed both the goofy sets and the elaborate costumes.

As far as shows Encores hasn't produced yet, The Grass Harp is the one I'm curious why they haven't attempted yet. But I think that might have been on Jack Viertel's list of shows he didn't care for (which I believe included The Golden Apple until they did that once).

I wish Jerry Herman had let them do Mack & Mabel at an earlier point, but that one also seemed to get bogged down in trying to "fix" the show (which what it probably needs is an entirely new book and a couple added trunk songs reconfigured from Miss Spectacular or other shows)

If Encores did The Grass Harp now, who would you all like to see them cast as Dolly, Catherine, Baby Love and Collin?

I'll answer my own question:

Kate Baldwin, Lillias White, Alyssha Umphress and Jay Armstrong Johnson

[quote] Aren't there also titles (gasp!) from the 70s and 80s that might qualify?

Tap Dance Kid was from the 70s. Overall, the 70s and 80s weren’t good with musicals, but there were some good reviews that Encores could do: One Mo Time, Bubbling Brown Sugar, Eubie, Black and Blue, Ain’t Misbehavin’.

There are also some fun off-Broadway shows they could give a listen to: Cowgirls, The Green Heart, Zombie Prom, Gun Metal Blues, Dames at Sea

They could do one of these small musicals with a small budget, do a big splashy musical and then something from the Golden Age catalog.

The distinction between Bway musicals (Encores spring productions) and off-Bway (the Off-Center series during the summer) is a stupid and artificial one in 2022. Musicals now playing on Bway would have been off-Bway and off-off in past decades (eg, SIX or HADESTOWN).

Encores needs to focus on one mission: reviving great American stage musicals, no matter where they came from. And regardless of how well- or little-known they were in their day.

Two more from the '70s and '80s: The Human Comedy and Raisin.

Raisin doesn't equal let alone improve upon its source.

A Day in Hollywood/A Night in the Ukraine?

Were there ever any other projects proposed for the Encores Summer Stars series (that I think began and ended with Patti's Rose in Gypsy)?

R77, for years, Emily Skinner was my dream Baby Love.

Other Encores summer shows with slightly longer runs (I think) included Damn Yankees and The Wiz. Damn Yankees was fun. The Wiz wasn’t. Am I forgetting any others?

Flahooley!

I wish they’d occasionally do an Encores West End season. There are soooooooo many really entertaining scores out there to West End flops I’d kill to hear on a grand scale like that. Though they do mostly require a certain type of actor you’d be hard pressed to find in New York.

Do the Brits have their own version of Encores?

[quote] It seemed like the entire production was geared to getting a less offensive depiction of Mrs. Meers in yellowface and her Asian henchmen (and getting the show back into high school circulation).

Did Tesori really game the whole thing to get stock & amateur $$ and that flew with the City Center administration and board?

[quote] Raisin doesn't equal let alone improve upon its source.

Remember that Encores was [italic] supposed [/italic] to be about good scores whose books precluded their likely revival.

[quote] there were some good reviews that Encores could do

oh, dear

seriously queens this is one error that must be abolished on the old theater queen threads

They did Harold Rome's "Fanny," but they should also do his "I Can Get It for You Wholesale," a first-rate show with a lot of principal roles. Rome's "Pins and Needles" and "Call Me Mister" would be interesting if they wanted to try revues again. And then there's Rome's "Destry Rides Again," but who could play Dolores Gray's role?

[quote]Remember that Encores was supposed to be about good scores whose books precluded their likely revival.

Do you think Raisin has a good score, r90? And if it's indeed about the score, they should just go back to concert/semi-staged versions.

When Encores! turns 30 in 2024, they could do Beauty and the Beast and Passion ... *ducks*

r92, Bridget Everett as Frenchie in DESTRY! And if DESTRY can be done, why not WISH YOU WERE HERE?

But again, most of these suggestions wouldn't draw flies without name talent.

They did stretch the mission when they did IRMA LA DOUCE. Not an American musical in any way. But that was one of their catastrophes.

The Encores mission statement has expanded over the years to include shows like Bye Bye Birdie, Pajama Game, Follies, and others that are hardly rare. That doesn’t bother me because I think it’s fun to hear the shows with their original orchestrations, as opposed to a skimpy Roundabout reduction. What I dislike about this new regime is an effort to present shows just because they are diverse even if they are not very good (Tap Dance Kid) or shows they think they can “fix” (Millie and The Life).

I'm always curious how an Encores season is programmed. It seems that most of the misses seem to be shows that depend upon having a STAR! anchoring the evening but due to scheduling or whatever doesn't pan out. Shows that I've heard were programmed for other actors that ended up not doing them are Purlie (Wayne Brady) and No Strings (Vanessa Williams), and there have been differing reports that Call Me Madam (the second time around) was supposed to be either Patti LuPone or Kristin Chenoweth (or Reba but that seems more wishful hoping). I also think House of Flowers was originally to star someone other than Tonya Pinkins in the Pearl Bailey role but not sure who outside of Queen Latifah would be a draw. Was Sutton slated to do Irma La Douce maybe?

They should have done "Flora, the Red Menace" for Sutton Foster, just after her breakthrough in "Millie." But then "Flora" is one of those shows with a revised version that is inferior to the original but is now accepted as definitive.

For "Take Me Along," I once envisioned Nathan Lane, Victoria Clark, and Bobby Steggert, but it's probably too late now.

I would not mind getting to see shows like The Tap Dance Kid since it is a rarity and I was not around to see it the first time. I love theatre, good and bad, so I'm curious about what was being produced at certain points in history, and doing a show for 4-5 performances is a great way to satiate that curiosity for many people, I'm sure, without losing your shirt.

The York Theater's Musicals in Mufti kind of picked up where Encores left off, doing more obscure shows. The problem is their budgets and selection of actors are somewhat lacking. That being said, no one else would have had the balls to do Lolita, My Love. And man, that was worth going to see. Really terrific score, and something that you would likely never get to see.

I'd pay for a season of Dude, Via Galactica and Rachael Lily Rosenbloom at this point over another fucking production of Into the Woods and a tranny The Life.

Just imagine the splendor of Encores 2050-2051:

Be More Chill

Tootsie

and, of course, Diana (with Zendaya as Queen Elizabeth)

While it's a far cry from Encores, the J2 Spotlight group is doing CLASS ACT, DAY IN HOLLYWOOD, BAKER'S WIFE starting this month. Based on last year's NO STRINGS, their work is a cut above Mufti, and that show was much better than Encores gave us.

As for 70s and 80s shows can’t Encores do that little remembered musical Annie, perhaps with an all Black cast as an added twist?

Listen kids, I saw the original productions of Lolita, My Love, Via Galactica, How Now Dow Jones, Dude and even Prettybelle and Rockabye Hamlet,,,,and believe me, they're not worth reviving at Encores or anywhere. And you can also add in Molly and Lorelei.

Actually, of all of them, I would be fascinated to see Rockabye Hamlet again. All the others were simply boring beyond belief.

Lorelei was entertaining, r103, but it doesn't really count as it's just GPB reframed so that Carol could still do it.

Sad that Tamara died at 60 in an automobile accident.

[quote] Actually, of all of them, I would be fascinated to see Rockabye Hamlet again. All the others were simply boring beyond belief.

Rockabye Hamlet was actually refashioned into a revisal that was done out in Los Angeles a few years ago.

What do you think it was about Rockabye Hamlet that attracted Gower Champion?

What about Rockabye Hamlet attracted Gower Champion to it? Beside the paycheck, of course.

Why was Gower Champion attracted to Rockabye Hamlet?

What exactly about Rockabye Hamlet was found attractive by Gower Champion?

With the right leading lady, of course, I would definitely be interested in hearing prettybelle live

This is just a guess, but perhaps he sensed a shift in the Zeitgeist: less classic Broadway show tunes and more rock. The very notion of rocking Hamlet might have seemed to him so crazy it could catch on as unique, trendy, something like that.

It is a very listenable to score, r111.

yes, r113, I agree

[quote] believe me, they're not worth reviving at Encores or anywhere.

That's the point of Encores. It's not a revival, it's a new listen to [italic] the score [/italic].

Two Tap Dance Kid questions- Why was Alfonso not on the recording but Jimmy Tate?

Does this note on the CD liner notes (yes I have the CD, it was a gift, I swear) mean there was a dispute with the choreographer about the recording?

[quote] The percussive sounds added to the Broadway orchestrations for the purposes of this recording were created by Harold Wheeler and executed by Mike Berkowitz. There has been no attempt to recreate, simulate or suggest the sounds of the original Broadway choreography.

I don't think so, r115. I assume they used the taps for the ultimate audio effect as opposed to what the actual choreographed steps sounded like in the theater.

R84. I bet Karen Morrow could still do an amazing Babylove

Guess I'm in the minority, but I find PRETTYBELLE mediocre, especially as compared to Styne's other scores.

Encores is in a hard place, because the sweet spot in terms of the age of audience they're most likely to grow is a group that would have come of age with the Broadway musicals of the 70s and early to mid-80s, when the sound of Broadway completely changed and tried, often in vain, to catch up with rock and pop. Barring some notable successes, the musical in particular started to be in critical care, to be rescued (at least financially) by the British pop opera invasion and Disney by the late 80s and early to mid-90s.

That older reliable moneyed Encores audience they started with really is either expiring, or doesn't have the money, or doesn't care to spend the money they have on attending every show they do. If they do a beautiful, full out GOLDEN APPLE (and they did) and the Orchestra section is partly empty and the balcony totally vacant, what else are they to do but try other directions?

I'm not writing this to hear six choruses of "That GOLDEN APPLE was flawed!!!" It was as fully realized and well cast and produced a production of that show as a modern NYC audience is going to see. And yes, I agree that their HOUSE OF FLOWERS, NO STRINGS, IRMA LA DOUCE and the recent CALL ME MADAM were badly handled, with crucial casting errors that doomed them from the start. But that's going to happen from time to time with any series.

There are very very few box office level stars with both the skills, starpower, and willingness who hail from feature films or series television to play the over the title 50s and 60s vehicle roles, so that leaves them with Broadway people, who have the skills but can't bring in the crowds to fill the caverns of City Center.

Sad but true -- and quite insightful, R119.

On a clear day

Perhaps Encores needs to leave City Center and move to a smaller venue like, for example, Stage 42 (where the Yiddish Fiddler played)? And return to more of a concert presentation form with just a nod towards costuming and sets? I don't know if a truly full orchestra could fit into such a scheme though.....or how much that ultimately matters to audiences.

Oh, the orchestra matters a lot, r122. That’s one of the major attractions of Encores. Without that, they’re sliding towards Mufti territory. There’s a reason Encores has been the gold standard for these hybrid companies.

[quote]The York Theater's Musicals in Mufti kind of picked up where Encores left off, doing more obscure shows.

Well, I wouldn't put it that way. Those two series have overlapped for many years.

I have a soft spot for Musicals in Mufti--they've done some nice work. But it's generally a piano and some folding chairs. Hardly competition for Encores.

[quote]so that leaves them with Broadway people, who have the skills but can't bring in the crowds

Encores would be filling more seats if only they used top Bway people who were a good fit for their parts, but they no longer even manage to do that. Look at some of the Bway talent in Encores productions from their first 10-15 years: it used to be stellar.

Was the star power worth mentioning at Reprise, the L.A. version of Encores!?

Reprise was NOT the LA version of Encores. Yes, Marcia Seligson spent a couple of weeks at Encores seeing how they do it under the guise of starting a partnership, then went straight back to LA and started her own company. But Reprise productions tended to be cheap and tacky. They never had full orchestras, but every once in a while a board member would spring for "extra musicians," and then they'd bump it up to ten or twelve. Every once in a while they got top talent - Rebecca Luker played Amalia in She Loves Me there, and they managed a very good Cabaret. But it was a tacky company. Marcia tried to bring it back, sold a subscription season that opened with Sweet Charity (fairly well done) and ran out of money. They switched their second show to "The World Goes Round" with a bunch of nobodies, and then canceled their third show, "Grand Hotel." That was the end of it.

Reprise really was just dreck. I began going to their productions shortly after moving to LA. The first one I saw was Company with Christopher Siebert as Bobby, Judith Light (pre-comeback) as Joanne and Debbie Gibson as Marta. It was fucking horrible with the exception of Jean Louisa Kelly, who was a marvelous Amy, and Amy Pietz from Caroline in the City, who was a hilarious April.

I also struggled through Applause with Sheryl Lee Ralph, It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's Superman (which was a concert version and not part of the regular season), Sunday in the Park with George with Kelli O'Hara and Manoel Felciano, and I Love My Wife.

I saw On Your Toes at Reprise. The only person who had good costumes was Stefanie Powers, who must have paid for her own costumes. She had three or four beautiful vintage outfits. The rest was thrown together - some of the outfits were 50s, some 60s, a few 30s, some 40s. Anything to get by. They did have Jeffrey Denman in the lead, and he at least had a secure sense of period style, but aside from him and Powers, the rest of it was shit.

R119 gave the best summing-up of the problem. Unfortunately, I can’t think of a solution.

I was reading about Kenneth Halliwell and thinking why hasn’t Prick Up Your Ears been adapted for the stage, it’s got the perfect dramatic ending that will take the audience’s breath away, like House of Blue Leaves. I looked it up and it has been done, did anyone see this production?

And has Bajour been done at Encores? Think of how glamorous the audience would look in their dress caftans and Sunday pearls.

Yes, They should do Bajour for their 600th and final show before shutting down.

Mufti did BAJOUR way back in 2007. It was pretty dismal, with an actor named Thom Christopher absolutely ruinous in the Herschel Bernardi role. They also did a terrible KEAN, but I wish I had seen their DARLING OF THE DAY.

I'd love to see that PRICK, r131, but Joe Orton no longer seems to be on anyone's radar. He made quite the comeback in the 1980s. I'm not sure there would be any shock value to his work any more.

BTW, the talk back for TAP DANCE KID was ridiculous. Just Lear and some of the actors, no director, writer, historian or even the adaptor. I guess they were all afraid to show up.

r136, did anyone in the audience ask them why they eliminated the fatness of the sister?

The whole "fat" question in Tap Dance Kid is hilarious. The adaptors seemed scared to include the issue for fear of offending the calorically challenged. And now the obese people in the audience are complaining because they don't see themselves represented onstage.

Dear fucking God, just do the show and let a certain segment of people yell at you on Twitter. You're fucked no matter what you do.

Julie Benko, a petite soprano, will be standing by for Beanie in Funny Girl.

Would it have killed you to include a pic r139

It's James Snyder's birthday

Correct if I’m wrong, but Encores began on cabaret contracts. Then a few years after inception, they bumped up to Actors Equity contracts. Was that because they went from singers in evening wear standing at microphones to costumed, semi-staged performances?

[quote] calorically challenged

That made me chuckle

Plenty of love for DL faves Diana and Ben Platt

R144 Apparently, Diana:The Musical must have kicked the Razzies nominating committee’s dog because they savaged the whole production with every nomination.possible.

[quote] Apparently, Diana:The Musical must have kicked the Razzies nominating committee’s dog because they savaged the whole production with every nomination.possible.

I probably would have spared Erin Davie from a nomination. I thought she was the only principal actor in Diana who didn't embarrass herself.

Wow, worst screen couple: "Any Klutzy Cast Member & Any Lamely Lyricized (or choreographed) Musical Number (Diana the Musical)"

interesting that DEH didn't make worst picture

You know it was a deep dive when they gave three of the supporting cast nominations. I’m surprised the gay butler or the AIDS patients were singled out as well.

R100-By 2050, Encores will be doing a site-specific Titanic.

With Lear at the helm of a sinking ship, I guess we can expect Raisin, Eubie, Runaways, Jelly's Last Jam, Sophisticated Ladies, Zoot Suit, Ain't Supposed To Die A Natural Death, and Starmites before the whole thing crashes.

[quote]Encores will be doing a site-specific Titanic

In the Jane St. Hotel? Like the original Hedwig?

You can't blame any actor in DIANA. The writing and direction was atrocious. There was nothing they could do.

It’s kind of delicious to see that cold fish Judy Kaye nominated for a Razzie!

That regional company that did Titanic in a lake also did Miss Saigon with an actual helicopter landing and taking off in a field directly behind the stage.

I wonder if they could burn Atlanta for Gone With the Wind.

[quote]I wonder if they could burn Atlanta for Gone With the Wind.

But that would mean they'd have to revive the musical!!!!

I would love it if they did BLITZ! and actually shelled the audience.

Miss Saigon

I thought the cabaret contracts were why the performers still had to hold onto their scripts even in the later years when they clearly weren’t using them.

I don't know the details, but at some point I believe the contracts changed for Encores! in NYC, and because they added some more rehearsal time, after that the actors no longer had scripts in hands. I have no idea what the deal was for L.A. Reprise.

Neely O'Hara Stone!

Is "Black No More" something like a rip-off of "Finian's Rainbow"? Of course, FR has one of the great scores.

MJ is recording its cast album today. For people who want to hear Broadway versions of Michael Jackson records.

I wonder if that includes any real MJ fans?

OMG! That looks great, even if not done well. People jumping in the water! Drowning right before our eyes! Sorry I missed it,

According to someone on a cast album list serve:

Encores operates under a special Equity contract (it is technically still a concert series even though that in reality vanished years ago) which restricts the rehearsal time.

Do people actually pay attention to a restriction of rehearsal time?

I would think at this level, people are going to be putting in many prep hours outside of rehearsal.

Jeremy O Harris is doubling down on douchiness - pronounces Euphoria (which he is a producer of) as being akin to Dickens and the new Pulp Fiction which will inspire a decade of new artists, and if you don't agree it's because you're not smart enough.

His inevitable downfall is going to be so enjoyable to watch.

He also seems to be a scat queen

[quote]This play is about yale, spelled !!!!!! And pronounced like an actual yell in the script. Someone should be shitting in every scene. Literally shitting. Even if the literal shit is chocolate bars heated up I want to see it everywhere.

I don't think he knows what literal means.

[quote] "MJ" just feels like a cheap rip off.

That defines ALL jukebox musicals, particularly the bio versions

Fantasia Barrino goes by Fantasia Taylor, her married name, now

I’m so disappointed that Lynn Nottage stooped to helping Michael Jackson's estate launder his image. Does she genuinely believe he was wronged or is she that hard up for money?

Is the supporting cast for PLAZA SUITE announced today the same as it was in the Boston tryout?

It’s all about the money, r172.

For Encores, how about City of Angels with Andy Grotelueschen and James Snyder.

Yes r173

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2002, "An Almost Holy Picture" opened at the American Airlines Theatre.

Classic Stage Company released a clip of Ethan Slater and Will Swenson performing in the recent production of "Assassins":

Why does Matthew Broderick look so uncomfortable and awkward in that Plaza Suite PR photo?

[Quote] I’m so disappointed that Lynn Nottage stooped to helping Michael Jackson's estate launder his image. Does she genuinely believe he was wronged or is she that hard up for money?

MJ’s not a documentary. It’s a tourist trap to bilk money from his fans. They don’t want to hear about pedo rumors . They want to hear his songs

How was the inevitable N bomb in “The Ballad Of Booth” received in this recent Assassins? Are white actors allowed to say the word anymore (especially with the hard -r)?

I think all the adults in the audience took it for its dramatic imperative to make an important point.

R181 Steve closed a production that cut the word. Right before his death. So is not their choice, they have to say it.

Do they also have to say it in the Assassins junior edition?

The Serenbe productions were pretty spectacular. But the story of how and why the company crashed and burned and what happened to the Artistic Director is more spectacular still.

[quote]Do people actually pay attention to a restriction of rehearsal time? I would think at this level, people are going to be putting in many prep hours outside of rehearsal.

We were talking about official rehearsal time. Of course, stars can put in lots of extra rehearsal and prep time on their own if they want to,

And..., r185?

Too me about 20 seconds to find this article through Google, R187. And there are others to be found on the same subject.

I've worked on a few Encores in the past dozen years and the leads always began rehearsals a week early, as well as dancers if it was a heavy dance show. So those performers got about 2 & 1/2 weeks of rehearsal. But most actors only get 8 days. and obviously, these days, all actors are expected to begin rehearsals knowing their material.

But the techs are really wild. Costumes are not added until the afternoon run-thru of the evening's invited dress and the actors only get onstage the day before that. And IIRC the next day (the day of the opening) there's only a very short brush-up rehearsal as needed. Not even a run-thru. It's all very fast and furious, and in my experiences at least, it actually tends to bring out the best in everyone, all trying to get the job done. But it ain't easy.

R115, the show was not recorded until ten months after the opening and Alfonso had already left the cast.

R188 Jesus wept, they all sound so weak.

[Quote]But the story of how and why the company crashed and burned and what happened to the Artistic Director is more spectacular still.

I'll say. After claims of racism, Clowdus left the company and moved to Panama City Fla (redneck Riviera) where he fully embraced his deplorable-ness. More detail in the linked article.

Oops, sorry, didn't see r188

Still very relevant to post, r192/r193. Unlike what r191 seems to believe, the people interviewed sound like they have legitimate complaints. This is the article that came up when I searched, where several male staffers/cast members claim the artistic director groped them. And yep, now he's gone full MAGAt. I did a Google search to see if he was openly gay or a fucked up closet case, and sure enough, what came up was a tweet from him claiming "the only thing harder than coming out as gay is coming out as a gay conservative." Oy.

Victor Garber at his best… N bombing.

The last I was aware of, the licensed version of Ragtime used "that word" in the mouths of racists and you couldn't license it for professional productions unless you agreed to perform the script as written.

But I know schools do the show. Is there an licensed alternative version for non-professional productions?

Someone needs to post Assassins Jr. so we can see.

.....that high and mighty African American Man who is my equal. Never. Never, Never. No The country is not what it was. Damn you Booth'.

[quote]Not Michael Cerveris (Tony Award)

That's the truth, r195.

Were all the numbers in that CSC Assassins staged as wandering around in circles like that

The performances at CSC were stellar, for the most part.

John Doyle's staging? Not so much.

I can't take any article from American Theatre seriously when they have to insert pronouns after mentioning anyone who figures into the story.

I also loved the performances at CSC. Judy Kuhn, Pasquale and Swenson were great. However, the standout for me was Ethan Slater. I thought he was great and, for once, the balladeer/Oswald character made sense. Although I am also very tired of singers playing instruments, I have to say that Doyle's directed the book scenes very well.

Agree, r201, especially about "for the most part." Judy Kuhn can't be funny under any circumstance.

“Nigger” was used a lot in American history. Editing it out everywhere is trying to change history

r205 is triggered by triggers

Wait, what?

The CSC Assassins was dreadful. Musicians wandering around with no purpose, laying on the stage, playing instruments on their backs...actors encouraged to mug...the night I saw it, Pasquale left the stage swearing at God knows what.. Will Swenson looked as if he came in last minute from another, much better production...Judy Kuhn was ok, but for the most part, the actors played like they hadn't been directed at all.

How does Roger Friedman continue to have a job, being both an idiot and a ignoramus. Read this non-article about the casting of "Florence" Ziegfeld.

Good lord...

It's almost like he thinks that's Florence!

I don't have a problem with him being black, but trans-ing him as well?

How much did Jane Lynch pay for that "great" adjective?

Jared Grimes, who will be playing Eddie Ryan--a much bigger role than Ziegfeld--is also black, but I guess no one told Roger Friedman.

Are they casting so many black men because they're the only ones who would find fat pig Beanie Feldstein attractive?

And it's Florenzzzzzzz.

Some people, Kay...

I wish Assassins would return to using two different actors for the Balladeer and Oswald. It doesn’t really work to combine the roles.

R215 that is not OK

Whenever I see a "perfect" version of a play, I never want to see it again, lest it replace that memory.

I saw an incredible version of Assassins at a college in Virginia years ago. I have no need to ever see it again. That memory will never be bested.

that does deprive you of many good experiences.

R220 I feel the same way about the Duncan/Rickman Les Liasons Dangereuses.

Miss Deb Messing is IN THE HOUSE, ladies and gents....

Who’s ever playing her nailed the look, is it a drag queen?

[quote] Miss Deb Messing is IN THE HOUSE, ladies and gents....

She IS the house.

How's the Messing CRA-ZEEE quotient these days?

We will surmise that by the length and quantity of onstage scarves, r226.

Looks like she's auditioning to replace Lenk

[quote] Debra Messing (Will & Grace) returns to the stage as Ernestine Ashworth, who spends her 17th birthday agonizing over her insignificance in the universe. Soon enough, it’s her 18th birthday. Even sooner, her 41st. Her 70th. Her 101st. Five generations, dozens of goldfish, an infinity of dreams, one cake baked over a century. What makes a lifetime…into a life?

Who plays Messing‘s character at 17 and 41?

I wonder who'll be cast in LCT's SKIN OF OUR TEETH?

Whoever they are I wish them luck under the "direction" of Lileana Blain-Cruz.

I also fully expect the LCT SKIN OF OUR TEETH to undergo enormous stress during rehearsals and previews. Andre Bishop is going to regret giving them the huge Beaumont Theater.

Why do you think there will be stress?

You can just watch Acts 1 and 2 (Act 3 is apparently lost) of Vivien's Leigh's wonderful Sabina in "The Skin of Our Teeth" on YouTube.

The best production of ASSASSINS that I ever saw featured a talented semi-professional cast, solid costumes and props, but no set - just a black stage and wall, until...

...until the Lee Harvey Oswald scene. Out of nowhere came a full set looking EXACTLY like the sixth-floor storeroom of the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas. The audience let out an audible gasp, and I heard some people around me begin to cry - so intense was the effect and so detailed the presentation. You knew what was going to happen - sombre and unstoppable - and it was as if you were there. The set rotated so you could see Oswald perched at the corner window from the outside as well. Really powerful.

Did Sondheim approve of color blind casting in his shows, especially of those dealing with history like in Assassins? I don’t think he did.

What's the Tea on this play Stroman is directing that's going into The Shubert. POTUS? Anyone know anything?

But was it a coup de theatre, r234?

R235 If he didn't approve it wouldn't have happened.

I hate most Susan Stroman shows.

The theme that connects them all is that they suck

Joe Mantello’s brilliant coup de theatre in the rightly rapturously received 2004 Broadway Assassins will be hard to ever top… a brilliant idea to project the Zapruder footage on NPH’s t-shirt until it zoomed out and engulfed the entire roller-coaster scenic design during the musical interlude following the long book depository scene. Unforgettable.

R234 So, basically the Cromer Our Town gimmick? Did he direct it, or did someone rip him off?

Cromer really seems like a pill. I don’t care if he has a big dick.

Do I smell bacon or am I having a stroke

The LCT Skin Of Our Teeth is a disaster in the making. Peasant subscribers will revolt and call for Andre's head. And Andre will proclaim, "LET THEM EAT COCK"!!

[quote]Andre Bishop is going to regret giving them the huge Beaumont Theater.

I resemble that remark!

The Skin of Our Teeth is a lousy play. It spoke to the people of the 40s and 50s. If has nothing to say to us now,

It's certainly almost incomprehensible to read, R246. Does it play better onstage?

Based on the production in Central Park years ago, I'd have to say absolutely not. Our Town it ain't.

Don't judge TSOOT by that ghastly awful production in Central Park. The 1955 all-star TV production with Helen Hayes, Mary Martin and George Abbott, can be seen on youtube (or maybe Vimeo) and it makes a very good case for the play’s entertainment value. It really is a delight. Finally, the production a few years back at Theater for a New Audience (David Rasche was Mr. Antrobus—very good) was likewise charming and diverting. I presume that the negative poster above wouldn’t consider those qualities worthy of preservation. His/her loss.

Don’t forget this production with our Miss Sada Thompson and Blair Brown that was shown on PBS. This had a profound impact on my growing interest in theater as teen, seeing a play that was told in metaphors not just straightforward storytelling opened my eyes as I struggled to interpret all its references. Sure, it is never going to be as important as Our Town, but I went to see a downtown production a few years ago and still found it fascinating and entertaining.

The Central Park Skin of our Teeth might have sucked, but Kristin Johnston's big monologue in the first scene was hilarious.

What intrigues the rest of the world about Americans is that everyone seems far more offended about Booth singing the N-word than they are that is is used to justify his having just shot someone. Black people are evidently far more offended by hearing the word than by the play's reminder that the President who freed them was killed for doing so.

Just like your TV - you can shoot people as often as you like and as graphically as you like, but if one of the victims says "shit" you have to bleep it out. It's WEIRD, guys. There is all this "respect" for identity, but none for human life.

The new MUSIC MAN is a big splashy production with some serious flaws. Hugh is too old and has none of the easy charm of Robert Preston in the role. His singing is surprisingly weak (and this is hardly a taxing singing role) and his dancing is pretty fey. Sutton is great in the early scenes when Marian is suspicious of Harold Hill, but they haven't lowered the keys enough for her. The result is that her singing has a Minnie Mouse-like tone when she hits the higher notes. Worst of all, Jackman got the giggles twice last night and broke character. Apparently this has been happening more than a few times during previews. I guess Zaks has no power to stop it, but I was very surprised to see it happen. The audience, of course, loved it. And there were a few morons who clapped along to "76 Trombones." The curtain call is a lot of fun, though, with everyone in fancy band outfits and a long tap break for Sutton. It's going to be a huge hit, at least as long as Hugh and Sutton are in it.

r252, are you really in tune with "the rest of the world"? Give them our best.

Fancy band outfits have long been a part of most MM productions. As for a long tap break, include me out.

There were "fancy band uniforms" for the kids in the original MM curtain call but not for the adults, especially not for Barbara Cook and Pert Kelton as there now are for everyone, including Sutton and Jayne Houdyshell. The actors in the revival hate them because the audiences can't tell who's who.

Miss Cook tapped in her early years. I don't think anyone involved in the original production od THE MUSIC MAN considered tap appropriate for Marian Paroo.

The entire cast wearing the same outfit for the curtain call has been done before.

Do any of the lazy fuckers carry a tuba?

When did Cook tap, r257?

R260- At Stritchie's funeral.

[quote] When did Cook tap,

In Barbara’s Tommy Tune revolving wheelchair show, an assistant was going to put a piece of plywood on her lap and tap shoes on her hands and she was going to sing and “tap” Broadway Baby while the wheelchair rotated. At the end, she would shout, “Fuck you, Ann Miller.”

[quote]In Barbara’s Tommy Tune revolving wheelchair show, an assistant was going to put a piece of plywood on her lap and tap shoes on her hands and she was going to sing and “tap” Broadway Baby while the wheelchair rotated. At the end, she would shout, “Fuck you, Ann Miller.”

Whose idea was that, Tune's or Lapine's? I could believe either scenario :-)

Lapine has no original ideas. He appropriates other people's ideas and then calls them his own. Except Flying Over Sunset. That shitshow was all him.

The set (and Carman Cusack) were kind of extraordinary in "Sunset". The rest was an embarrassment.

Barbara Cook did a tap number while seated in a concert/show in Chicago in the mid-1980s.

R263, I think R262 was joking.

Barbara Cook was going to play Roxie in Encores Chicago but Marge Champion talked her out of it.

Who knew the Barrow Group was so obnoxious.

[quote] At the start of the pandemic, The Barrow Group let go of its 10,000 sq. ft. arts center at 312 West 36 St, [bold] correctly intuiting that the pandemic would last more than a year. [/bold]

I've written before that Rudin was being sued for getting several productions of the earlier stage version of Mockingbird shut down. It turns out the licensing agent was also suing Harper Lee's estate for colluding with him.

Dramatic Publishing just won the latter case after weeks of arbitration. They won $200.000, plus $2.5 million for legal fees and other costs and are now free to continue licensing their version in second tier markets.

It's slightly more complicated but here are details at Broadway World:

I haven’t seen the one with Helen Hayes, Mary Martin et Al, but I have seen the one with Vivien Leigh, and the one with Blair Brown. And I’ve seen a live production. in LA. No big names, really, but Will Geer’s granddaughter Willow was great as Sabina. Oh, and I saw All About Us, which stank to high heaven, but that’s a whole other story.

So yeah. I know it pretty well. And I think it stinks.

Did anyone see the Kander & Ebb musical of Skin Of Our Teeth? It's depressing to think it effectively doesn't exist now.

from Over & Over

oops

R272. I saw it. It was called All Anout Us, and had Shuler Hensley. Cady Huffman, Eartha Kitt and Yvette Freeman. It wasn’t good,

Before that, it was produced at the Signature in VA. The title then was Over and Over. That’s the one where Bebe Neuwirth, who was playing Sabina, was fired in rehearsals and replaced with Sherie Renee Scott.

Supposedly “At The Rialto” from that musical was one of Fred Ebbs favorite of his songs. I don’t think anyone has ever recorded it commercially though.

from All About Us

r276...

What say you, DL? Should the critics cite the Hugh Jacked Up prices of The Music Man in their reviews? If a critic doesn't like it, is it fair to talk about the show's disappointing quality being that much more heinous because of the highway robbery prices or should they talk only about the art and craft of what's on the stage without the context of the pricing?

[quote] but Will Geer’s granddaughter

I thought Will Geer was a Friend of Dorothy.

R269 How is that obnoxious?

Will was gay, but still propagated.

Interesting that all three of Thornton Wilder’s big plays were made into musicals: The Matchmaker into Hello, Dolly!, two versions of Our Town and several reworkings of Skin of Our Teeth. I’ve never seen the Sinatra-led TV musical of Our Town. I wonder if that’s stage-worthy.

Will Geer had two different marriages, and had four kids between them. But his romantic partner from 1934 on was activist Harry Hay, and they were fairly open about their lives.

r283...

If it was for tv, it probably didn't have enough songs for the stage, especially with timeouts for commercials. But "Love and Marriage", later used as the theme song for "Married With Children" was from that "Our Town" musical. I've never seen it -- did Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint sing well?

Check it out for yourself, r286.

SIgnature Theater in VIrginia did a great production of Assassins not too long ago. I may be wrong, but Ford's theater may have done it years and years ago as well. Imagine watching that show with the actual Lincoln box right next to the stage . . .

CBS local news just announced The Music Man is making 10,000 tickets available for students, their families and teachers at $20 apiece.

Are the producers benevolent or desperate or both?

The Cahn Van Heusen songs for the TV show were pop songs inserted into the play. "Look to Your Heart" for example was recorded by Sarah Vaughan and Perry Como. C&VH were never known for their ability to write the kind of plot-driven dramatic songs a musical needs (see Skyscraper, Walking Happy), so I suspect they wouldn't work in a stage version.

[quote]Are the producers benevolent...

Were you able to type that with a straight face, r289?

Actually, no, r291, but that's what they reported as if it were notable.

"The Music Man" as written originally, it didn't need to be tailored as a star vehicle. It had great roles in Harold Hill, Marian and the others and turned out to be wonderfully done by Robert Preston and Barbara Cook. Someone didn't trust the show, which gave Preston a whole new career in musicals, as enough of a great role and/or Jackman and/or Sutton wanted to dance more; the way the great star Marilyn Miller would be told years ago about the plot and songs, which were usually not particularly integrated into the plot back then, for her latest show, to which she would reply "But when do I do my tap specialty"?

Rebecca...

I love "The Skin of Our Teeth." So there.

"Six o'clock and the master not home..."

The Skin of Our Teeth is incredibly difficult to pull off today if one tries to update it because of its period sensibilities and references to the middle class post-Depression/pre-WWII American way of life and its aspirations.

Perhaps not specific references but in the entire mise en scene, the very settings and characters which it worships and parodies, such as the Antrobuses' comfy suburban home, the nuclear family, the Atlantic City boardwalk as a place of temptation, the idea of a maid with a feather duster, a telegraph boy, naughty conventioneers, a gypsy fortune teller, beauty pageants, etc.

I taught in a very good college theater program for many years and saw several dismal student productions over the years, none of which ever really got the play because the young directors, designers and actors simply didn't understand the style.

R295, thank you, I agree.

R296, very perceptive and full of understanding.

Company in the NYPL Archives.

Lordy, R285's Our Town also stars Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint!

I read somewhere that they wanted Ray Bolger for the original Harold Hill, but he insisted on a lengthy solo dance number somewhere during the evening. The producers declined. What a difference it would have made if Hill had been a rubber-limbed clown instead of a sexy charmer.

The Tony Awards are always a punchline of tone deaf absurdity, but the fact that The Music Man beat West Side Story for basically everything - including Best Musical - makes the more recent Ave Q/Wicked, Phantom/ITW and La Cage/Sunday catastrophes seem quaint.

You’re so very wrong, r301. They are both brilliant musicals, and a win for either one would have been correct. As it happened , TMM won.

Now if you want to move ahead two years to when The Sound of Music and Fiorello tied, relegating Gypsy to loser status, we can talk.

When I saw the WSS revival with the gay Tony, it was so blah that I completely understood how Music Man won

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2017, a revival of "Sunset Boulevard" opened at the Palace Theatre.

Speaking of the Palace, are they about done with lifting it?

Nope, R305.

[quote][R263], I think [R262] was joking.

Ummm, I know. So was I.

[quote]When I saw the WSS revival with the gay Tony.....

Which one was that? LOL!

With one starting Matt Cavanaugh

Starring

R308, the most recent revival with Isaac Powell I would imagine.

Hey Fred Ebb and R276, do you know what rhymes with "Rialto"?

..."Alto"

The Skin of Our Teeth/Over & Over had some good songs in it, including "You Owe It To Yourself" and "Eat The Ice Cream". And "Someday, Pasadena" which didn't make it to the last revision that played, really slaps. Big number for Sabina and the boys! Was the show written as a vehicle for Bernadette Peters, or did she just do the first reading of it? Michelle Pawk did a reading of it too. Who did the Gabe Barre directed reading?

WEHT the Comden/Green/Bernstein version?

WSS is much gayer with all those boys in tight pants, fiery Latinixas, all gay team and tragic opera ending - while TMM is one of the straightest shows - - so DL hates it.

R313, one or two of the songs wound up in the revue “By Bernstein” in the late 70s. “Here Comes the Sun” is especially good.

I also love “Someday, Pasadena” which I know from a so-so quality tape of the show at the Signature. Sherie Renee Scott is great in it.

I’d love to know the scoop on exactly what went down with Bebe Neuwirth. Was her bone of contention Eric Schaeffer’s “direction”?

And Bernadette Peters as Sabina would have been dream casting.

The Music Man is actually a terrific show. It has good songs, a well crafted story, appealing characters.

West Side Story has a lusher score. But, its book is a bit messy.

They're both examples of great musical theate and both belong in the Pantheon.

As for suggesting Avenue Q is unworthy of the Tony and Wicked was robbed of one, I couldn't disagree more. Avenue Q is a charming show with minor but enjoyable songs and a very funny book and terrific characters. It's clever and witty.

Wicked is a shrieking over designed turd with 2 decent-ish songs.

R316 Which two?

Popular and the loud song she shrieks at the end that stupid people love so much.

Oh, I thought Dancing Through Life, the double entendre is a more sophisticated element then you would have thought the show could pull off.

If you're picking which musical is gayer, TMM or WSS, just think that the latter was created by four homosexuals, the latter by one straight-arrow hetero.

I knew Avenue Q would win just by looking at the reviews. Avenue Q's were uniformly positive. Those for Wicked were . . . mixed.

I won't like Wicked at all Schwartz doesn't deserve the disdain he gets. He's a better songwriter - music [italic] and [/italic] lyrics than Jason Robert LaChuisa, Michael John Brown, or the like, none of whom could have written the collection of his better songs from Godspell, Pippin, Wicked and The Magic Show, let alone a few animated movies. Wicked is a lumbering scattershot mess of a show, but the songwriting isn't the problem.

[quote]the latter was created by four homosexuals, the latter by one straight-arrow hetero

A plethora of latters.

The Skin of Our Teeth begins rehearsals at LCT on Feb. 24 but still no cast announcement!

Wicked diverted from the source material to much, taking a book with a political message and making it family friendly swill.

Ooops. But think you could figure it out.

With regards to The Music Man vs West Side Story, you have to put the original shows into cultural context.

In 1957, Mamie Eisenhower was First Lady and it was people like her, the hat and white gloves set, who were going to Broadway shows.

The Music Man was a non-threatening, fun time in the theater.

West Side Story was about racial issues, gang warfare and used vulgar phrases like “sperm to worm”. 1950s audiences only other reference to Hispanics was Ricky Ricardo who couldn’t recognize his own wife in a fake mustache.

Change was very slow. Even two years later, Mary Martin wins for playing a sweet nun who falls in love over Ethel Merman who played a demanding mother who allowed her daughter to become a stripper.

It's been often observed that the show that makes people feel good is the one that will usually win. And as with Ave Q, the reviews for MM were largely over-the-moon raves, while those for WSS were not.

I'm pretty sure I want the current Aladdin

Where is the good in goodbye??? Music Man fired their original barbershop quartet, which was an established group. They say they decided they wanted actors, not singers. I think they wanted BIPOC cast members to diversify their original lily-white cast, now two of them are black. Now the originally hired group is suing.

Sutton's *below* the title???

R331, she is indeed below the title, but in a typeface the same size as Hugh's name and the title of the show. I'm not sure if I've ever seen billing exactly like that before.

I like my Sutton below the title, sunshine.

The Musical So Bad, They Sold the Theater to a Church

To try to explain away TMM’s win based on the Eisenhower era ignores the fact that it was a genuinely good show, with a solid film character actor making a surprising and dazzling entrance into musical comedy. Add on an equally dazzling Barbara Cook, finally attaining leading lady status after a parade of ingenue and soubrette parts. And all those great supporting players (including Pert Kelton, re-emerging from blacklist hell). Plus an excellent book and score. It was no second fiddle to WSS.

[quote] To try to explain away TMM’s win based on the Eisenhower era ignores the fact that it was a genuinely good show,

With songs like Shipoopi and Pickalittle and people having orgasms because the Wells Fargo Wagon was driving down the street.

Do you pity every girl who isn’t you tonight, Steve?

"Avenue Q" is an entertaining little show, but a prime example of an off-Bway/off-off-Bway show that would have thrived in those venues in a different era. It's tiny, intimate, and immediate: its slender charms diminish with larger houses and longer runs. (I saw the original late in its run... and it was not aging well.)

It's slight and charming but it's also quite dated. ("Everyone's A Little Bit Racist" and the Gary Coleman character aren't the same harmless fun in 2022 they were 16 years ago.) I don't know how it's holding up in regional productions.

It is not and never has been a major Bway musical.

There is a production of Night Music playing in LA that uses nonbinary and trans performers. People are up in arms about one review (link below), saying that the misgendering and dismissal of the casting quirks/gimmicks equates with violence. Bitch, please. The review is fine. Stop the insanity.

A bad review is LITERAL VIOLENCE

[quote] There is a production of Night Music playing in LA that uses nonbinary and trans performers.

I told you that once Steve died, that husband of his would pimp out his legacy to any and all offers. Up next, a junior high school production of Company where they smoke real marijuana and drink real vodka stingers.

Every song and dance man they wanted turned down The Music Man, including Gene Kelly, Danny Kaye, Dan Dailey, Donald O'Connor, Ray Bolger, etc., etc., etc. That's how they ended up with a B list film actor who had never sung or danced, thank God. It's a famous story.

Similar to the problems they had casting Mame. No one the producers really wanted was interested.

[quote] Similar to the problems they had casting Mame. No one the producers really wanted was interested.

I was goddamned interested!

[quote]Similar to the problems they had casting Mame. No one the producers really wanted was interested.

Who, r342???

What the hell was that I tried to read at r339?

I wasn't even going to attempt it, r345. You're a braver soul than I.

Mother in Ragtime was a real slut.

Her husband dies, she barely waits until he’s in the ground and marries a Jewish immigrant looking for a green card and a nanny for his daughter.

I feel guilty that I'm wishing bad reviews on Music Man

Just wish for honest ones, r348.

Does Hugh use a local dresser or does he bring his own dresser with him?

Mame was offered in order to Roz Russell, who according to Life Magazine, responded "I don't eat yesterday's stew" then to Mary, who was interested but too exhausted from her recent flop Jennie to consider creating the lead in another new show, then to Ethel. Yes, they offered Mame to Ethel, who knew they only wanted her for her BO value to open an expansive show and told the producers where to get off.

The three finalists after other turn downs were were Dolores Gray, Nanette Fabray and Angela. Dolores and her manager mother were known to be a nightmare to work with, Fabray refused to audition ("They know what I can do") but Angela flew in from LA three times at her own expense to audition. In the interim she worked with Jerry Herman, who immediately decided he wanted her and studied with the vocal coach he recommended and was better each time. But after her last audition, she spoke to the producers from the stage, saying she had prostrated herself before them and needed a yes or no answer before returning to LA that night. She went back to her hotel and an hour later received a call offering her the role.

[quote] she spoke to the producers from the stage, saying she had prostrated herself before them

Pics please.

R341:That husband of his doesn't have the authority, you halfwit.

It's truly a puzzlement why so many of those choices for Harold Hill turned down the offer. I mean, what the hell were Dan Dailey, Donald O'Connor, Ray Bolger and even Gene Kelly so busy with in 1957? And Danny Kaye.....god forbid he didn't accept!

Well, one wonders if the score and the libretto were still very unfinished when those offers went out. And I guess no one had heard of Meredith Willson at that time in Broadway history.

Didn’t that Life Magazine article also mention Gisele McKenzie, R351? I’m pretty sure it did.

Giselle could have had "Mame" playing the violin! That might have made it hard to recast though. But then again, Ann Miller put in a tap specialty.

[quote]To try to explain away TMM’s win based on the Eisenhower era ignores the fact that it was a genuinely good show,

Both ideas are true, and not mutually exclusive. THE MUSIC MAN is/was a great show, but ALSO, shows like WEST SIDE STORY that are groundbreaking or envelope pushing in some way, and also darker than other shows, tend not to win awards over less challenging, more conventionally or traditionally constructed entertainments.

WSS story would have probably won that year if it had been up against anything except TMM.

Like Ragtime, after winning best book and best score, would have probably won best musical if it had been up against anything except Julie Taymor's elaborate puppet show.

Perfect place in he show to add tap, r356. Made more sense than her tap in Dolly.

^the

So will The Music Man reviews appear tonight/tomorrow? I guess time will tell.

r357 - FOLLIES!

And SUNDAY IN THE PARK!

I'm guessing that Gene Kelly wasn't really interested in stage work at that point in his life. 8 shows a week is exhausting! He would have been a huge draw if he decided to do TMM., and would have been great, I think. But he would have made the role a far more dancing one than it ended up.

Hugh is 53 and looks 10 years old in this show plus he's gotten really thin probably from sweating so much

ten years old, or ten years older?

Hugh is dancing as fast as he can!

Hugh started looking really old and "ropey" a couple of years back. Lean muscle is great, but if you have 0% body fat you're going to look even older than you actually are.

He never had a great singing voice and I'm hearing accounts that he is sounding even less great in TMM.

Awful schadenfreude here but I really hope TMM gets lousy reviews.

It will get great reviews. Everyone seems to love it.

Not everyone on All That Chat loves it.

Looks like Ann Miller is also prostrating herself in that pic at r359. Is that Gene Saks that she’s offering her ass to?

I bet your Rorschach tests are really something, r372.

I can’t think of anything Nanette Fabray did that would have shown her ability to play sophisticated Mame Dennis Burnside.

Nanette was supposed to kind of like sophisticated, snappy Betty Comden in "The Band Wagon" film.

But she lacked elegance.

Saw Mrs. Jackman sailing down Perry Street this morning on an e-scooter. She looks every bit her age without make-up.

THR interviews DL fave Frank DiLella:

Frank's brother Chris has a sweet ass.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1967, a revival of "You Can't Take It With You" opened at the Lyceum Theatre, playing in repertory with "War and Peace"; "The School for Scandal"; "Right You Are If You Think You Are"; "We, Comrades Three"; and "The Wild Duck."

I was curious about the cast, r380...

[quote]And I guess no one had heard of Meredith Willson at that time in Broadway history.

Willson was well known as a radio personality and a composer, but he had never written a Broadway musical.

R381, I see that the great Rosemary Harris was part of that cast as were Keene Curtis and Donald Moffat. Not too shabby.

[quote] I see that the great Rosemary Harris was part of that cast

As well as Ro’s husband, Ellis Rabb.

Why wasn't Presley Ryan asked back to play Lydia in Beetlejuice?

Ellis directed.

NYT reviews "The Music Man":

[quote] Ellis directed.

And was an alternate for the role that Queen Curtis played, just in case one of Queen’s tricks got a bit rough.

[quote] NYT reviews "The Music Man":

Why is there so much yellow in that scene?

And stalwart Patricia Conolly, r383. I saw her do Amanda in Private Lives at the Guthrie. I believe that season she was also doing Blanche.

He looks old and tired

Meanwhile Jesse green can’t write comprehensibly anymore

And how does that really old lady (no, I don’t mean Jackman, the other one) have a son that age?

She used a surrogate, r392.

Let’s face it, Harold Hill is really a ripoff of Sky Masterson.

The New York Post review is not good either.

And the YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU cast also included the future director Nicholas Martin.

You Can’t Take It With You with Anne Francine!

ANNE FRANCINE!!!

That production of YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU was part of the APA Repertory Company (formed by Ellis Rabb) which produced plays in rep on Broadway. Many of those actors were long time members of the company.

This review praises Jerry Zaks for nothing except... directing Sutton in ANYTHING GOES?

Here's the School for Scandal cast...

and Wild Duck

[quote]The boy who is secretly dating the mayor’s daughter is no longer the son of “one a’them day laborers south a’town,” presumably because the suggestion of class prejudice is too hot for a comedy to handle in 2022.

When even Jesse Green is criticising you for going too 'woke'...

We see you, White Music Man.

This just in: Darren Criss will replace Hugh Jackman when Hugh’s contract is up.

Is that what Lynn gets from using that Stairmaster so often?

That ridiculous theatrely.com review contradicts itself in every other paragraph.

That ridiculous theatrely.com review contradicts itself in every other paragraph.

Isherwood:

Deadline seems to be fairly positive:

Well, looks like they *are* giving honest reviews ...

Has Ron Howard commented yet?

So without any assistants around, who does Rudin abuse tonight?

Or Craig Bierko?

The gang over at Beetlejuice must be laughing their head off.

I’m guessing no third Tony for Sutton?

She’s doing far better in the reviews than Hugh is, r415. At the very least she’ll get a nomination.

There's zero chance Hugh doesn't get a nomination. I'm sure CBS have already made that clear to the Wing.

So far, none of these crappy critics can really talk about what’s not working in Jackman‘s performance. They barely mention his singing or the choices he and Zaks have made that make it not work. they don’t seem to know.

So if Rudin hadn’t been removed from the production (no idea if that really happened) I wonder if he would have ordered some fixes during the lengthy preview period.

Was anyone in that APA company straight?

TMM will fill out a lot of Tony categories simply because the season will be so meagre in musicals. And I don't think FUNNY GIRL will change that.

[quote]But Jackman mostly suppresses his sharky charisma here; this is not a star turn like Dolly Levi or, for that matter, Peter Allen in “The Boy From Oz.” Instead, he seems to see Hill as a character role: a cool manipulator and traveling horndog who in being unprincipled must also be unlovable. The result is a smart but strangely inward performance. By turning away from the audience, he not only undersells big numbers like “Ya Got Trouble” — in which Hill spellbinds the citizens of River City into believing that the recent arrival of a pool table will cause juvenile delinquency and that a boys’ band is the solution — but also undersells us.

And it must be said... he looks OLD.

The criticism of Hugh does seem contradictory, even in the same reviews, saying his performance undersells but is too slick, it's too inward but it's too presentational. I'm in no doubt he's not up to it but the reviewers, for the most part, aren't very articulate.

[quote]It’s true that words are at the core of the role. Robert Preston, who originated it, was not by any means a great singer, or indeed a singer at all. But Jackman has certainly established himself as a musical theater artist of some renown (his “Oklahoma!” in London remains a major highlight in my memory). Here, unfortunately, his singing is consistently off-pitch and metallic. More disappointingly, he seems to be aiming his performance at the audience like a blazing torchlight, in a way that ill suits an artist of his caliber.

So, a Best Actor in a Musical slate of Hugh, Myles Frost, Rob McClure and Billy Crystal? Are there any other men who could reasonably get in as leading?

[quote]The role was famously played on Broadway and on screen by Robert Preston, the memory of whom Jackman spends most of his time running away from. When he speak-sings “Trouble” — one of the most rousing tunes in the entire musical theater canon — he changes it up everywhere he can, even if that means sacrificing punch and momentum. “Ya Got Trouble” and, say it ain’t so, “Seventy-Six Trombones” are jarringly ho-hum here. The whole first act meanders to a fizzle. What Hill is meant to achieve in those big numbers is convincing a bunch of stubborn Midwesterners, with his radiant charm and charisma, to trust and embrace a smooth-talking charlatan. But Jackman’s interpretation is so bizarrely dour — as if he’s judging his own character’s sins for us — that their infatuation makes no sense.

Hugh looks like Sutton's doting grandpa here.

Hate to be mean but hell it's DataLounge

Harold Hill is too damn old

Ouch.

[quote] This Professor Hill seems less a traveling salesman than a song-and-dance man on a second-class national tour.

[quote] The enterprise is a golden-age opportunity squandered. All I kept thinking as I scarpered out of the Winter Garden was: They didn’t know the territory.

WashPo

Ouch.

[quote] This Professor Hill seems less a traveling salesman than a song-and-dance man on a second-class national tour.

[quote] The enterprise is a golden-age opportunity squandered. All I kept thinking as I scarpered out of the Winter Garden was: They didn’t know the territory.

WashPo

He could dote on my ass

Never heard the word "scarpered" before.

You're forgetting the kid starring in "Strange Loop". He will be nominated.

A live stream “master cut” of Carrie: The Musical streaming at 3 pm on Sunday New York time? Talk about counterprogramming to the Super Bowl!

[quote]Hugh looks like Sutton's doting grandpa here.

And Sutton, it must be said, is no spring chicken herself and is a bit long in the tooth to be playing Marian. But having a young Marian opposite Jackman would have made Harold Hill's stalking of her even creepier than it already is.

Which is more offensive? The rapidly aging Ben Platt trying, and failing, to portray a teenager in the film of DEH, or the almost-senior Hugh Jackman trying and failing to portray an energetic 40ish?

Neither is offensive, R436, they're just bad choices.

No doubt one day Sutton will play Mame but please keep her away from Mama Rose.

[quote] having a young Marian opposite Jackman would have made Harold Hill's stalking of her even creepier than it already is.

r435 they also needed someone close to his height so it wouldn't look weird

[quote] And Sutton, it must be said, is no spring chicken herself and is a bit long in the tooth to be playing Marian.

A BIT long in tooth? She’s 46, turning 47 in a month! Hell, I had only just turned 30 when I did it, and that cunt Shirley Jones was 28 when she did the film. Until now, the oldest Marian was Rebecca Luker at 38!

Fuck this motherfucking Sutton Foster. She’s old enough to be Winthrop’s grandmother!

How did Hugh Jackman get so old so quickly, was it Covid, or is it to much time as a youth spent in the Australian sun? Why? Why did this happen?

It has always been an incongruity but young Winthrop now defines all biological explanation. Who fucked 69 year old Marie Mullen less than 10 years ago and [italic] actually knocked her up [/italic], giving Sutton a little brother nearly [italic] 40 years younger [/italic] than she (her)?

NOT defines, defies.Fuck.

Marie Mullen looks like she put on a shit ton of Covid weight in the past couple years. I saw her play the mother in a revival of The Beauty Queen of Leenane five years ago and she didn't resemble Lainie Kazan back then.

I worked on a Music Man production with Rebecca as Marian in 1985, r440.

So she’s been both a young (26) Marian AND an old Marian (38), r445.

How could casting Hugh as Harold Hill be a bad choice? He's the reason the show will make millions, reviews or not.

Will it close when he leaves, r447?

[quote] How did Hugh Jackman get so old so quickly, was it Covid, or is it to much time as a youth spent in the Australian sun? Why? Why did this happen?

It was time

Will this Music Man still be a mega-hit? Will people still pay the outlandish prices, during covid, to see Jackman?

People don't remember, but Boy From Oz was NOT a hit right off the bat. There were plenty of empty seats and even talk of closing it. It took a while before Jackman started ad libbing and basically turned it into the glorified nightclub act it probably always should have been. That's obviously not going to happen here. How much ad libbing with the audience can TMM bear? I suspect none. But as the run continues, it's possible Jackman might loosen up and start enjoying himself more.

If we have a good tourist summer before the next variant, it could do great, what else would a tourist want to see, really, and it got all the attention nationally. Will they get a year of mega-hit sales?

I remember sitting behind Hugh Jackman when Guys and Dolls (w/ Ewan McGregor & Jane Krakowski) first opened in the West End in 2005. He had terrible skin then.

You mean acne, R453? I know he’s had skin cancer scares.

[quote]It has always been an incongruity but young Winthrop now defines all biological explanation. Who fucked 69 year old Marie Mullen less than 10 years ago and actually knocked her up , giving Sutton a little brother nearly 40 years younger than she (her)?

It's always been pretty obvious that Winthrop is the illegitimate son of Marian and Old Miser Madison.

Is Well’s Fargo the corporate sponsor of TMM?

Cadillac took their name off the Winter Garden in 2007 (or maybe the theater got enough money from them to drop sponsorship).

R454, just like ruddy and, erm, not smooth.

It's the same set-up as Bette in Dolly. Rake in all your money now, turn a profit until its time for both of them to split, then hire a satisfactory replacement to allow lesser mortals to sneak their asses in at a reduced rate. Are we sure Rudin isn't still calling all the shots here?

So who would be a viable but interesting replacement?

Beanie Feldstein?

If logorrheic cheerleader Peter Marks is panning TMM in the WAPO, things are really dire.

[quote]It's the same set-up as Bette in Dolly. Rake in all your money now, turn a profit until its time for both of them to split, then hire a satisfactory replacement to allow lesser mortals to sneak their asses in at a reduced rate. Are we sure Rudin isn't still calling all the shots here?

AND, he hired Little Charlie Stemp, a BRIT, as a replacement. What lesser roles can be filled by cheap Brits?

Pretty much all of them.

As a handsome aging gent myself, I can verify that having 0 body fat is not flattering after age 50 when one's skin begins to sag and wrinkle. Hugh would look far better with more meat on his bones, say about 20-25 lbs more.

Of course, what's difficult is that as one ages and naturally puts on more weight, it's virtually impossible to control where the excess lbs land, most usually right around the waist line and never in the face.

There is no way he will gain weight while doing this show, it is too much work

Maybe they can get someone - Reba-style - after HJ to turbocharge the show.

Who, r467?

Katrina Lenk?

Leslie Odom and Audra.

Thank god Leslie Odom Jr’s popularity seems to be on the decline. Such a mediocrity. He was never going to be a big star.

[quote]Are we sure Rudin isn't still calling all the shots here?

From the publicist's statement over the critics tickets thing, it's clear he absolutely is.

[quote]What lesser roles can be filled by cheap Brits?

Brits on Broadway are paid at American Equity rates. I remember the couple who came over with the 2010 La Cage were shocked at how much more they were getting paid on Broadway. It's why the Stemp thing never made any sense to me, other than Cam Mack calling in a favour to give his new favourite a Broadway credit.

Will TMM put Hugh into an early grave?

Early?

Sounds like Hugh has been doing his arena/nightclub act too long.

This time next year Jackman could be up for a Best Actor Oscar for the title role of The Son, written and directed by Florian Zeller (The Son). It’s about a man whose teenage son commits suicide. Anthony Hopkins is also in it but not playing the same character in The Father that won him an Oscar.

[quote]People don't remember, but Boy From Oz was NOT a hit right off the bat. There were plenty of empty seats and even talk of closing it. It took a while before Jackman started ad libbing and basically turned it into the glorified nightclub act it probably always should have been. That's obviously not going to happen here. How much ad libbing with the audience can TMM bear? I suspect none. But as the run continues, it's possible Jackman might loosen up and start enjoying himself more.

According to some reports, and even some reviews, he's already regularly breaking character and breaking the fourth wall at certain points in this show.

[quote]It's the same set-up as Bette in Dolly. Rake in all your money now, turn a profit until its time for both of them to split, then hire a satisfactory replacement to allow lesser mortals to sneak their asses in at a reduced rate. Are we sure Rudin isn't still calling all the shots here?

Some of us are pretty sure it's the opposite, and he's still calling ALL the shots. One huge tip-off was that dumb publicity stunt that had all of the major critics attending on opening night. How did THAT idea work out for you, Scott?

R477 How would something like that figure into the agreement with the Wilson estate? Is ad libbing is looked on the same as changing the script?

no ad libbing they just break and giggle

Willson, r479.

During Boy from Oz, Jackman was not nearly the star he is today. With Wolverine, Great Showman, and Les Miz, he's become one of the few bona fide theater box office draws. Even in the oddball, The River, he was a hit. He'll sell out until he leaves.

People seeing Hugh Jackman live is a musical is for many a "bucket list" event (same with Nathan Lane). It will be sold out. No worries there.

I can't imagine in this economy, when tourists return to NYC, there will be many who will fork out $200+/seat (for balcony seats!), especially if they intend to see a few shows on their trip, even for Hugh.

And I also hear from so many longtime diehard theater fans that they're disgusted by the pricing (and now the reviews) and they'll console themselves with memories of the Bierko/Luker revival.

So will be buying those expensive tix except for those on expense accounts?

All of Hugh’s women fans.

They are legion.

Women luv Hugh; and Hugh luv da pussy.

Oz

I'm betting that over time Hugh turns even less into Harold Hill and more into "Hugh Jackman." He'll relax into it, the audience will love it, and he'll be more like the star of a variety show than an actor playing the character and probably that's not a bad thing except for critics or theatre snobs. It is what it is, and what it is, is The Hugh Jackman Show's rendition of The Music Man.

The tourists don’t care about (and may not even know about) the reviews. They’re going to see Jackman and will pay a fortune for the thrill.

I saw Boy from Oz and totally didn’t get the hype. Sure, he has charisma but so?

It's probably the lure of the VIP party bus after the show.

Can you imagine?

VIP Party bus? No, it's called the Wells Fargo Wagon...

Hello Dolly was pretty much The Bette Midler Show. Midler never played anything else but herself.

Yes, there were so many more colors and much more depth to it when Carol Channing played her, r493.

That's delightful, R494, but who cares? It has nothing to do with the conversation.

Dolly Gallagher Levis who played themselves

Ruth Gordon

Carol Channing

Pearl Bailey

Eve Arden

Barbra Streisand (she played a combo of herself & Mae West)

Ann Miller

Not Ethel Merman??

JFC, this isn't a conversation about Hello Dolly, it was a response to someone commenting about Hugh Jackman moving into playing himself instead of the character in TMM as the run goes on.

It's still on topic, r498, you grouchy Gus.

You include Ruth Gordon, r496, but not Shirley Booth. Why, r496...

It’s not that Jackson was playing himself—he’s was doing the typical “let me make some funny off the cuff comments because the fraus love that”

^Jackman

Suppose Betty Buckley just played herself in Cats, Drood and Carrie?

Suppose Glenn had played herself in Sunset Boulevard. Oh. Wait. Never mind.

Tonight on That Girl:

Misunderstandings multiply when Don appears in women's clothes. Don: Ted Bessell. Ann: Marlo Thomas. Father: Lew Parker. Charlie: Dick Wesson. Harry: Noam Pitlik. Desk Sergeant: Dort...

[quote] You include Ruth Gordon, [R496], but not Shirley Booth.

Did you see the movie of The Matchmaker? Booth isn’t playing herself at all, she’s playing the part. The other actresses were playing themselves as Dolly. (And leaving Merman our was a mistake)

You saw Gordon, r506?

VIP party busses are the only way to go.

[Quote] party busses

Oh, dear

Anna’s European, that’s how they spell it, R509. Also she’s in prison so her spelling’s bound to be a tad rusty.

I saw Hugh do "The Music Man." I also saw John Davidson do "The Music Man." It was the same performance. The "loved celebrity" Harold Hill. It's a time honored method, and Jerry Zaks let him do it.

And Peter Marshall in the London production. Zaneeta Shinn in the center square!

76 Trombones...

Weathered Hugh and strident Sutton at $250+ (for balcony!) in a corny revival of a lame show is exactly what audiences deserve… not that it’s a Scott Rudin production anymore (wink wink).

R512 [quote] Peter Marshall in the London production

Van Johnson was London's Harold Hill. Peter Marshall did "Bye Bye, Birdie" in London, and he did "Music Man" in stock.

I stand corrected, R515.

Rather funny Sondheim letter, him writing to the developer of a puzzle computer game he enjoyed.

[quote]The crosswords were far too easy for me, although I can see that they might not be so for everybody

Are we sure Steve didn't post on DL?

The PS listing corrections is amusing too.

He answered one of my letters and corrected my spelling. I'm surprised he didn't add "oh dear."

You can practically hear the murmured "you fucking bitch" with this one

One gentleman's comment in one of the Broadway discussion groups on Facebook:

"I weep for all the theater kids who won't get to see The Music Man - for $700 a ticket - and therefore won't be inspired to memorize every word and to dream about it every night."

MARY! I think that's the gayest sentence I've ever read.

R520, love that comment from the guy and so true.

A new generation can’t afford to grow up loving Bway

R374, did anything that Lansbury had done indicate she could have the warmth needed to play the role?

I used to go to so many Bway shows each year—almost all the new ones. As prices have gone up astronomically and I’ve gotten older, I limit my Bway going to about 2 X per year at this point.

I tell all my friend to wait for the touring version in their cities. I also found that West End tickets for the same shows are amazingly cheap. I flew to London and watched three shows for the same price one orchestra seat would be in NYC—plus buying tickets online for West End Shows has no added “comvenien e” fees. You pay exactly $100 for a $100 ticket.

She obviously showed it in her auditions, r522.

And that’s the whole point. Angela smartly auditioned. If there was something they were unsure about, she showed it to them.

Nanette Fabray refused to audition.

[quote] If there was something they were unsure about, she showed it to them.

And it was much hairier than they expected.

Nanette Fabray was a talented woman and a great comedic partner to Sid Caesar on his old TV show but other than a natural warmth, there'd be nothing that would have convinced Broadway producers to star her in an expensive new Broadway musical in 1966 (and the eagerly anticipated successor to Jerry Herman's Hello Dolly). She was always more of a co-star, not the star. Now, of course, at the time, Lansbury was even less of all those things and had shown very little comic or musical skills in films or onstage. So it's truly a testament to her hidden talents and perseverance, as well as Herman's support, that she won the role.

I'm more surprised that there weren't some formerly BIG movie stars of a certain age who were considered. Kay Ballard, apparently another finalist, also seems now to be a very dull choice. Though who would have logically fit into that category who really might have carried the show and had some stage chops?

Dolores Gray seems like the most obvious choice for Mame at the time. However, she was known to be difficult.

Nanette Fabray may have been more of a co-star on film and in television, R527, but she had already been the star of many expensive new Broadway musicals, so she would have been a reliable, safe choice--since she could carry a show and deal with the ups-and-downs of out-of-town try-outs.

And Broadway audiences liked Nanette.

Dear God, we're arguing about Nanette Fabray. How do we get this discussion back into this century?

Was Nanette Fabray really the star of any hit Broadway musicals pre-Mame? I know she did Love Life, Arms and the Girl (was that the right title?) and Mr. President but weren't they all big flops? Genuine question....no snark intended.

And why wasn't Nanette one of the Mame replacements on Broadway?

Maybe Angie would show up at auditions with her incredibly handsome hubby Peter Shaw who would then flirt with the gays on the creative team.

By the time the show had developed around Angela, could Nanette have danced it? High Button Shows was considered a success, wasn't it?

This is pretty fascinating. Sondheim and Lapine offering a guide to performing Into the Woods, with lots of backstory on the show’s creation. It’s 52 minutes long.

Fabray sparkles on the Mr. President recording, despite the mediocre material. And she was funny. There were worse choices to play Mame.

[quote] There were worse choices to play Mame.

I resent that remark!

I resemble that remark!

She still wasn't right for it, r536. She couldn't do glamour. Janis and Annie were up to the task, but I always questioned their choice of Morgan.

R527. Imagine Kaye Ballard and Bea Arthur together onstage in “Mame.” Why not just do “The Killing of Dister George” as a musical and call it a day!

“Sister,” not “Dister” (or “Mister” or “Fister,” for that matter)

R534, shows were built around the stars. If the star could dance, they danced in choreography that played up their strengths and downplayed their deficits.

If Nanette or Gray or Martin had gotten the role, the dancing would have been designed to show them off.

R520 and R523, you're not painting a true picture. Yes, prices on Broadway have gone up, especially in the premium era. But there are still plenty of free and low-cost tickets to Broadway and off-Broadway shows for people who a) are willing to stand in line for rush and standing room or enter online lotteries; b) join the papering services; or even just c) people who are willing to sit in the back of the mezz/balcony and move down.

Students have it even better, contrary to the person R520 quotes: all the NFPs have some sort of student ticket, that in some cases extends to well past student age. Some commercial Broadway shows also offer a student rush. And even Music Man's $49 rush isn't too far out of reach for many students.

Even if tickets were free, live performances of the show at the Winter Garden would be inaccessible to people facing time and geography barriers. There will always be someone left out, that's life.

If you're a person who says "I want a great seat to a sold out hit on Friday or Saturday night during the first year of the run, bought a month ahead of time" then guess what? You're not going to get a house seat anytime you want it to that particular show for $20. You're gonna pay what the market will bear.

It's unreasonable to expect a Broadway ticket to be the price of a movie ticket. It's been a very long time since that was the case. But there are plenty of affordable Broadway and off-Broadway evenings out there, between $10-50.

R543, yes if you jump through lots of hurdles, you could maybe get tickets, but only those in the know even understand what those are. You have to show real commitment and time to take advantage of those opportunities. They are in fact pretty rare— you’re not going to find Music Man on a papering service, for example.

Bway is no longer a regular entertainment for NY’s middle class. The producers decided to go in that direction, and that’s fine I guess. Just don’t scratch your head when the next generation doesn’t even consider it something to go see unless there’s a monster hit like Hamilton.

We’re seeing opera dying on the vine. It will take longer but, if nothing changes, Bway will die the same way.

[quote] she had already been the star of many expensive new Broadway musicals,

All of which flopped, save for “High Button Shoes.” (She was also the hits By Jupiter & Bloomer Girl, but as replacement leads). She was fairly recently off the crashing of “Mr. President” when “Mame” came up as a possibility. She definitely was a dicey choice.

Lansbury at least had a solid film career with three Oscar nominations, plus recent Broadway runs in Hotel Paradiso and Anyone Can Whistle, plus the hit A Taste of Honey.

[quote]Dear God, we're arguing about Nanette Fabray. How do we get this discussion back into this century?

I would suggest moving to a different website.

[quote]Dear God, we're arguing about Nanette Fabray. How do we get this discussion back into this century?

Why are you asking us? You know how to post as well as anyone else. Why don't you post something about something that interests you. If it passes muster, maybe we'll comment on it.

[quote]Dear God, we're arguing about Nanette Fabray. How do we get this discussion back into this century?

Conversations about the theater, especially Broadway musicals, will inevitably reference the 20th century, especially the years considered "the golden age" of musicals. As R547 said, if you want a topic to change, try changing it yourself instead of just offering a snarky remark.

Let's not forget that Nanette had one of the great Broadway voices, and Angela did not. (Though it got better over time.) And Nanette may not have been considered the most glamorous star, but a hell of a lot more glamorous than Angela was thought of up until then, when she played dowdy or matronly most of the time. But in the end, they made a great decision, and gave Angela a whole new career.

Do we pick the experienced star with a string of flops?

Or the movie actress who only played second leads and appeared in a musical that no one saw because it closed in less than a week?

r543 you're missing the point. Check any online inflation guide to see how posted, regular Broadway prices have skyrocketed, compared to other entertainment items. Jerome Robbins' Broadway was $55 in 1989, which would be $127 by today's prices. Sure, there are more discounts but there are so many friction points to getting those prices. Middle class people families can't go more than once a year. People talk about shows being 'relevant' but that's not about subject matter as much as it is about price.

Where will the next generation of DL eldergay theater queens come from?

The bigger problem is there's so little worth seeing on Broadway AT ANY PRICE, at least of the musicals, to raise a new generation of discerning theatre queens.

[quote] there's so little worth seeing on Broadway

...especially now that James Snyder has been sidelined

[quote]Let's not forget that Nanette had one of the great Broadway voices, and Angela did not. (Though it got better over time.) And Nanette may not have been considered the most glamorous star, but a hell of a lot more glamorous than Angela was thought of up until then, when she played dowdy or matronly most of the time.

This is the first I've heard of Nanette being described as having had "one of the great Broadway voices." And your other comment is not completely true. Yes, I can think of some previous roles in which Angela was "matronly," but few in which she was "dowdy," and even though she played villains in both THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE and also in ANYONE CAN WHISTLE, I would say she came across as quite glamorous in both of those.

[quote]Let's not forget that Nanette had one of the great Broadway voices, and Angela did not.

Bullshit. Imagine Nanette's version...

[quote]The bigger problem is there's so little worth seeing on Broadway AT ANY PRICE, at least of the musicals, to raise a new generation of discerning theatre queens.

Yes, but not every Broadway show is a musical. Almost all of the new plays (non-musicals) that have opened so far this season are or were well worth seeing at a reasonable ticket price. "The Music Man" may turn out to be a victim of general greed and Scott Rudin's rampant ego.

[quote]But there are still plenty of free and low-cost tickets to Broadway and off-Broadway shows for people who a) are willing to...

The problem with that, R543, is that seeing a show from a great seat in the middle-front of the Orchestra is a completely different experience from peering at it from afar or being spat on by the actors while you look up their skirts from the front row. Watching a filmed version of it would give you far more immediacy and connection than any of those cheap seats you describe.

R551 is right. I visit New York every few years from overseas (or did before the plague), and the prices have just bounded upward from visit to visit. I honestly thought they were joking about the Hamilton prices before I got there, but even Mockingbird was over $300 for a great seat. That was booking direct with the theatre, not through any "VIP" system. Whereas the highest price for a straight play at the National in London right now equates to $US120. A premium ticket for Les Miz is $US237 and the top premium ticket on a Saturday night for Hamilton in London is $US270.

R555, thank you.

yes r556, as a kid growing up in NJ in the 70s and 80s my family came to many shows, probably as many plays as musicals.

When you remember paying $9.50 for a prime orchestra seat to a broadway musical when you were a teen it’s hard to imagine paying $400 for that same seat now. Of course prices are going to rise over the years but that doesn’t make it any easier.

^ we were just middle class and we probably saw 5 shows a year ^

this is a fun tool to compare prices you remember and what they'd cost today. Even more than posted top prices are the posted low prices for shows. Weren't rear mezz (formerly known as 'balcony') seats as low as $3 in the early 70s, without going through hoops, waiting on special Ines, or doing last-minute rush? That would be like $22 today.

Don't forget twofers and previews being cheaper.

and twofers were easily accessible and simple to use, and the visibility of having them stacked up on dry cleaners counters (yes even in NJ!) and stuff like that kept them more 'present' than specialized websites

I used to have an unused Ann Miller in MAME twofer. I sold it on eBay some years ago.

So Banquo is going to be played by [italic] gasp [/italic] a woman.

Does everything have to be ridiculous now?

It's all downhill from here

I loved those two-fer coupons! When Id visit NYC as a kid, I’ll collect them.

Nanette Fabray was before my time, and I’m fucking old!

Is DL really just a bunch of 80 year olds??

Also, balcony prices were cheaper than orchestra. Now, orchestra and front balcony are the same price

With so many shows being jukebox musicals/bio musicals/movie-to-stage musicals, hardly anything is worth over $200 to see.

a musical of Mrs Doubtfire? Really??

Assuming it were well done (which it wasn't), what's wrong with the idea of a musical of "Mrs. Doubtfire" per se? Were you one of the people who said "A musical of 'Hairspray?' Really??"

I remember paying $4.00 for a balcony seat. Didn’t the original production of Chicago outrage ticket buyers with an unheard of $17.50 for weekend orchestra seats? And, seriously, the quality of the shows and performers was so much better.

I actually saw Hairspray and said, "With such great material to work with, THIS is what they came up with??"

[quote]I’m fucking old!

Well, maybe try fucking young for a change.

Hairspray had some bite to it, r572. It also seemed like a musical when it wasn't one.

[quote]I actually saw Hairspray and said, "With such great material to work with, THIS is what they came up with??"

I'm not surprised.

Let's not let this discussion of Fabray go by without referencing her hilarious industry nickname due to her terrible plastic surgery: No Nose Nanette.

Every observation about the Broadway's availability and popularity so far is absolutely wrong. Prior to the Pandemic there were never more people going to Broadway at the greatest variety of pricing ever in its modern era history (say 1964 forward). These numbers are all easily publicly available. Every time I walk by a line at a box office (pre pandemic) in the early morning, and I know its the crowd looking for standing room and day of tix, I know how healthy it is. And everyone here is so old they don't understand how many young people are using TodayTix. You're all wrong. There is access for everyone, and its not that hard.

[quote]Nanette Fabray was before my time, and I’m fucking old! Is DL really just a bunch of 80 year olds??

Pardon us for being theater fans who know something about theater history and who started at a young age collecting original cast recordings for show that were on Broadway before we were born. I get a kick out of all the DL posters who consider ignorance a virtue.

Thank you R579

[quote] Every observation about the Broadway's availability and popularity so far is absolutely wrong.

As definitive (and definitively obnoxious) as you are, it's debatable unless you know the household incomes and theatergoing habits of those who attended. A huge sector of the public thinks tickets cost the $400 and $700 prices that get the publicity, and therefore simply write it off as something that's not for them. That wasn't the case in the 60s and 70s. It was never a poor person's option, but it wasn't as elite as it is now.

[quote] its not that hard

Neither is punctuation, and yet...

[quote] Assuming it were well done (which it wasn't), what's wrong with the idea of a musical of "Mrs. Doubtfire" per se? Were you one of the people who said "A musical of 'Hairspray?' Really??"

We didn't need Hairspray either.

So your point r582 seems to be that because some stupid people don't really try to find all the easily accessible discounted ticket information out there, the whole industry has a problem. The "public" does not think tickets are $400 to $700 just because of some Music Man hype, which, by the way, was commonly deflated in the past few weeks as information flowed on how they were lowering the prices due.

[quote]Pardon us for being theater fans who know something about theater history and who started at a young age collecting original cast recordings for show that were on Broadway before we were born. I get a kick out of all the DL posters who consider ignorance a virtue.

I couldn't have phrased it better myself :-)

[quote]We didn't need Hairspray either.

I suppose we didn't "need" it any more or less than we "need" any musical, but the show was a big hit with a long Broadway run, tours and productions all over the world, a movie version AND a live TV performance. So what the hell is your point?

[quote] So your point [R582] seems to be that because some stupid people don't really try to find all the easily accessible discounted ticket information out there, the whole industry has a problem

The whole point of restricting discounted tickets to certain websites and papering services is to be sure the casual theatre going doesn't find them. Someone just vacationing in NYC without knowledge about these sites will usually pay full price.

The industry has chosen to focus on the tourist but whines when NYers don't go if tourists don't come to the city. Theatre has become a luxury for the wealthy

[quote] I suppose we didn't "need" it any more or less than we "need" any musical, but the show was a big hit with a long Broadway run, tours and productions all over the world, a movie version AND a live TV performance. So what the hell is your point?

The point is Mrs, Doubtfire folded after just a few performances and won't be traveling all around the world. The producers surely knew that but still charged massive amounts to see that pile of shit.

Hamilton tickets are $125 this week!

Funny how that happens when no one is going to see a show that has been around forever and has the original cast on HBO

R588, I was writing about "Hairspray" in that sentence, not "Mrs. Doubtfire." And, of course, the producers of "Doubtfire" didn't know for sure how the show would be received until it opened. It WAS NOT a hit, but that doesn't mean that a well-written musical of "Mrs. Doubtfire" COULDN'T have been a hit. That was my point.

[R590] And my point is, because they had a hit with Hairspray and producers are desperate for tourist money, they are looking at every possible movie to duplicate the success of Hairspray, no matter its artistic value.

They throw up slop like Mrs Doubtfire, which no one was calling out to musicalize, in the hopes that the name along with attract tourists to pay $300 each.

And yes, producers aren't stupid. They have a good idea about how a show is coming along.

[quote] some stupid people don't really try to find all the easily accessible discounted ticket information out there

r579/r584 I think you've made your point, although perhaps not the one you were going for.

Anyone who thinks Hairspray - with an outlandish man in a dress as the leading lady - was anything but a risk, especially towards the tourist market, is deluded.

R593, it was based on a very popular movie and, at that point, Bway wasn’t so laser targeted on tourists.

I recall paying as rather normal price for orchestra seats with the original cast.

R588, I just heard from someone who works Doubtfire that it now looks like the costumes and wigs might be used for the West End production this summer. So it’s going SOMEWHERE but perhaps not back to Broadway.

A handy reminder to whomever sets up the next thread. Please follow the THEATRE GOSSIP #454: (title) format and if possible, post the link here. It's also good form to include a link to this thread so initial posters know where the conversation left off. Thank you.

Bajour, Bajour, toujour l’amour!

Quick questions: What West End house would Mrs. Doubtfire play in? And a two-parter: do we think the 75th Tony nominations will be announced Tuesday, May 3, with a Sunday, June 12 ceremony? (If I was producing the show, I'd be playing up that anniversary -- diamond, no less -- like nobody's business. Really give 'em a grand celebration.)

I’m imagining Mary Boland saying that even as I type, r597!

{quote]A handy reminder to whomever sets up the next thread

Also a handy grammatical reminder: It should be "whoever sets up the next threat." "Whoever is the subject of "sets up," not the object of the preposition "to."