Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Pro-⚽️ Mason Greenwood exposed as a rapist

Mason’s brave girlfriend Harriet Robson posted audio & images to socials which clearly show he has serially abused her.

Greenwood’s employer, Manchester United Football Club, say that they have been made aware (calling the posts ‘allegations’, in an insulting turn), and that they are reviewing it before they take action.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 128March 14, 2023 1:24 PM

The audio is chilling..

Perhaps we can conclude it’s damaging to take very young boys out of mainstream school, to train them in aggressive sports, and to shower them with praise and accolades and privilege for so doing, putting them beyond the law of the land?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 1January 30, 2022 10:44 AM

^^working link

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 2January 30, 2022 10:54 AM

people on the bird site saying ‘hIs CaReEr Is OvEr BeCaUsE oF hEr’

NO. his career is over because of HIS actions and his actions alone.

abuse is abuse, doesn’t matter who you are, what your job is or how much you earn.

by Anonymousreply 3January 30, 2022 12:30 PM

Dirty fucker.

by Anonymousreply 4January 31, 2022 6:46 PM

This is sickening.

Why does the audio keep knocking out?

by Anonymousreply 5January 31, 2022 6:49 PM

I was going to make a cheap MUFC joke, but this is really serious

by Anonymousreply 6January 31, 2022 6:50 PM

Professional footballers really need some kind of training in how to behave. Etiquette classes, if you will. They get media, nutrition and fitness training, some music life skills. They need to know the law, how to take responsibility, how to bathe, who to address their elders, parents, the difference between eyes, and no, consent, free will. The basics that regular teens learn through trial and error throughout childhood but that sporting prodigies places in elite training squads before puberty don’t get.

by Anonymousreply 7January 31, 2022 7:00 PM

Just had the most depressing conversation with my Nan about this. She’s Silent Gen, of the opinion that, clearly Harriet was in some form or fashion bringing this abuse upon herself—being “enough of a bimbo” to fall in love with footballer, and being “too weak to leave”. Apparently, never has it occurred to her in nearly 90 years of life as a woman that things like social stigma, fear of reprisal (sometimes fatal), and conditioning via terror may impact women who experience DV or assault.

by Anonymousreply 8January 31, 2022 7:31 PM

Black men love to beat up on white women.

by Anonymousreply 9January 31, 2022 8:14 PM

R6 in the film 28 DAYS LATER, when the protags get to Manchester they discover that the city has been reduced to a burnt-out smoking ruin.

Would rebalance the Premier League table more fairly, and also improve society. Don’t really see the problem with such an outcome, myself, so long as all damage was contained to that one city.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 10January 31, 2022 11:49 PM

Geez! That scumbag needs to be arrested. I’m not surprised that the Twitter consensus is that she's at fault, though, athletes get far too much leeway for bad behavior.

by Anonymousreply 11February 1, 2022 4:46 AM

Harriet’s own father has released the most stomach-turning reverse-victim-offenderish statement I’ve ever heard from a family member of an abused person.

Given what Mr. Robson Sr has told press about the situation (and the fact that he spoke to press at all), it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that he has mistreated his wife or daughter in the past, too. Hope the police investigate him the same way they’re investigating Mason.

The worst thing is the way Mr. Robson practically defending Greenwood with his public comments—saying the young man is “part of the family” and that Mason & Harriet are a loving couple, saying he wishes Harriet hadn’t posted evidence of her abuse (thereby keeping it private, under family control, and in the realm of deniability), and saying that “as a father, [one doesn’t] want to know things like that happening to [one’s] daughter.” It’s essentially what a Mob boss would say.

Don’t know why I’m so shocked, though. Of course, in these times what a story about a horrifying attack on a woman must boil down to is a straight man coming to the defence of another straight man, in particular a man who is wealthy and famous and protected by institutions. These creeps all protect each other, and throw the women connected to them under the bus at first opportunity.

Summoning Circle for Harriet to ditch her entire family and start afresh elsewhere in a new life, with the ample compensation payments she deserves and ought to receive, and with no creepy men destroying her autonomy and violating her safety.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 12February 1, 2022 10:39 AM

British news sites have taken down the interview with Harriet's father, which is understandable considering they should never have published it in the first place seeing as Greenwood has been arrested.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 13February 1, 2022 10:48 AM

Her father is trash and he is trash. She has been abused by the men in her life, this is why women are afraid to speak out. If she goes back to him, I have zero sympathy for her as this is the reason domestic abusers (HELLO CHRIS BROWN) continue to beat down the ones they’re with. It’s a control mechanism and when you allow control, they won’t stop. It’s a drug to them to make you feel less than.

by Anonymousreply 14February 1, 2022 11:28 AM

R12 I don't really see how you can make out anything he said as defending Greenwood. In fact, you deliberately quote him out of context to make it seem worse than what he actually said. For example, you wrote:

[quote]saying the young man is “part of the family” and that Mason & Harriet are a loving couple

when what he actually said was:

[quote]‘She is devastated because she didn’t want it released. We have known him since the under 21s. He has been part of our family for two or three years. Their relationship has not been good for the last few months. She is completely devastated by it all. They were very much in love and have been together for a while. The police are dealing with it now.’

You said:

[quote]saying he wishes Harriet hadn’t posted evidence of her abuse

Which is a total lie. What he actually said:

[quote]She has told us her phone has been hacked. We told her to take it down, which she has done but it’s out there now so it is too late.

If she told her parents she'd been hacked it obviously means she's claiming to them she didn't want it posted. And either way, telling her to take it down was the right thing to do from a legal point of view, as I guarantee you Greenwood's defence will argue he won't get a fair trial because of the press coverage and leak of the photos and audio. Same reason why all the news reports have been edited to remove her name.

by Anonymousreply 15February 1, 2022 11:55 AM

[quote]If she goes back to him, I have zero sympathy for her

Well you're a piece of shit then. So a victim who's been physically and mentally abused is meant to act however you determine otherwise they're unworthy of sympathy? Fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 16February 1, 2022 11:56 AM

This story is vaguely reminiscent of the Russian that (eventually) beat his girlfriend to death and took pictures of her & posted on social media to show how he subdued her. Sad & depressing, but all too common

by Anonymousreply 17February 1, 2022 1:04 PM

[quote] If she goes back to him, I have zero sympathy for her

Please know that if we had a report function in this cesspit, I would have reported you for this.

Talk about blameshifting, missing the point, and decentralising the victim of crime.

by Anonymousreply 18February 1, 2022 1:08 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 19February 1, 2022 1:22 PM

how can all these pick-me people say “there are two sides to the story”? do you really truly want to know what the two sides are?

because it’s verbatim 1) harriet repeatedly saying “no i don’t want to have sex” (on a clear recording for everyone to hear), then 2) mason saying “i don’t care if you don’t want to have fucking sex with me”.

those are the two sides that you all want to equate so badly. and it’s clear who is in the wrong and what crime was committed.

by Anonymousreply 20February 1, 2022 1:23 PM

I believe her because she said it on Twitter and a bunch of other females agreed! LOCK HIM UP AND GIVE HIM THE CHAIR!!

by Anonymousreply 21February 1, 2022 1:39 PM

Men are such absolute shit, it’s hard to wrap your hand around they daily carnage they cause.

by Anonymousreply 22February 1, 2022 2:01 PM

He IS the Sporty Chris Brown!

by Anonymousreply 23February 1, 2022 2:05 PM

Cis male privilege.

by Anonymousreply 24February 1, 2022 2:07 PM

He has been unfollowed by teammates.

by Anonymousreply 25February 1, 2022 2:10 PM

What was Mason REECE exposed as?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 26February 1, 2022 2:14 PM

Thanks for posting the video OP, since I'd read about this but had no clue how bad and graphic it actually was. Even before seeing that video, Harriet's father's statement was stomach-churning in how he took Greenwood's side over his own daughter and was minimising the whole thing.. jesus. With a father like that, what hope did she have? No wonder she didn't walk straight away.

by Anonymousreply 27February 1, 2022 2:20 PM

Mendy from Manchester City now Greenwood from United. Hopefully MUFC won't sweep this under the carpet.

by Anonymousreply 28February 1, 2022 2:34 PM

Not only that this guy looks like he has IQ below 0, but dead eyes too.

by Anonymousreply 29February 1, 2022 2:42 PM

Footballers get paid truly crazy amounts. Greenwood is being paid £75,000 per WEEK, or £3.9m per year. For comparison, the average UK salary is less than £30k per year.

This likely feeds into how they think they can do anything (and do get away with a lot).

by Anonymousreply 30February 1, 2022 3:11 PM

Right r24, whereas men who identify as transwomen can coerce lesbians into sex with them and if the lesbian protests or refuses she's "transphobic". Transwomen murderers and rapists can choose to be housed in women's prison, alongside women who may themselves have suffered abuse from men. Any protest against this is "transphobic". Men who identify as transwomen can enter a women's sauna space and expose their penis and any protests against that are "transphobic".

Mason Greenwood is a perfect example of why women want to maintain their own single-sex spaces and not have men enter them, regardless of what they "identify" as.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 31February 1, 2022 3:22 PM

This is sad. Not only was he improving in the game but being used more by the club. Now he has done this crap that is going to ruin him and he's hurt a person he loved. It's super sad. WTF Mason. He had such a baby face in the U21s.

by Anonymousreply 32February 1, 2022 3:31 PM

Further arrested on suspicion of sexual assault and making threats to kill. The latter suggests the recording gets worse than what we've heard.

by Anonymousreply 33February 1, 2022 4:26 PM

[quote] Harriet's father's statement was stomach-churning in how he took Greenwood's side over his own daughter and was minimising the whole thing.. jesus. With a father like that, what hope did she have? No wonder she didn't walk straight away.

Yes, Mr. Robson seems to favour Mason over his own flesh-and-blood, and it’s not a stretch to surmise that this is because he didn’t want the gravy train of Premier League money (as detailed by R30) to stop rolling for his family. Either that, or he’s dickmatized by secondary proximity to a ‘star’ of a hypermasculine world of performance. Or both. Regardless, his behaviour is despicable and not permissible.

The best/worst comment Mr. Robson made:

[quote] ROBSON: We told Harriet to take [the social media posts used as evidence] down, which she has done, but it’s out there now so it is too late. She is devastated because she didn’t want it released. We have known him since the under-21s (broadly, an age category in football leagues). He has been part of our family for years. Their relationship has not been good for the last few months. She is completely devastated by it all.

What those outside of the situation who have not experienced abuse need to understand is the subtext of this: Daddy is trying to control the narrative of Harriet’s life harder than even her abusive ex was, and this is obvious from the way he speaks over and for her, as if he knows best what she as an adult woman in distress needs and wants or could ever understand what she’s going through. He alleges that “[Harriet] didn’t want [the evidence] released”, but it’s very hard to believe that claim when the images & audio were posted by her private account with lucid comments and left up for over a day, followed by other posts & replies by her on the same account.

Though the problem is with an abusive extrafamilial relationship in which his daughter was trapped, Daddy is quick to clarify the relationship *he* has with the accused (as if that counts for anything?) and to emphasise why his bond with Greenwood matters more than a repeat criminal offense committed by Greenwood that victimised one of his family members. Mr. Robson is absolutely covering tracks.

This father absolutely trampled his daughter’s courage and honesty (@R21!) into the dirt, because he doesn’t want to hurt the precious fee-fees or damage the reputation of a young man (of no direct relation to him, with independent wealth and elite status), and in this way presumably safeguard perks or his own image as a patriarch. One wonders what Mr. Robson might have told the world if his son were famous and had been exposed as an abuser.

Depressing how this whole situation arose. Misogynistic violence really begins in the home and in private communities, and not enough hardline progress is being made to limit male violence and re-educate boys. DV is on the rise, and measures must be taken now to prevent further decline. How, though, when even police are abusers, and when courts can be bought, and when self-proclaimed family men throw their girls & women to the wolves? What then?

Enough of this ‘lock up your daughters’ shite, at least—it clearly doesn’t work well as a preventative, does it?

by Anonymousreply 34February 1, 2022 6:37 PM

R34 You made up that entire narrative in your head

by Anonymousreply 35February 1, 2022 7:27 PM

[quote]What those outside of the situation who have not experienced abuse need to understand is the subtext of this: Daddy is trying to control the narrative of Harriet’s life harder than even her abusive ex was, and this is obvious from the way he speaks over and for her, as if he knows best what she as an adult woman in distress needs and wants or could ever understand what she’s going through. He alleges that “[Harriet] didn’t want [the evidence] released”, but it’s very hard to believe that claim when the images & audio were posted by her private account with lucid comments and left up for over a day, followed by other posts & replies by her on the same account.

Are you in Britain? Do you understand the law on rape in England and Wales? The father's advice on the public posts is very sensible. Rape victims have complete anonymity in UK law whether the police charge the alleged rapist with a crime and regardless of the jury trial.

In Scotland a well known conspiracy theorist was sent to prison following former Scotland First Minister Alex Salmond's criminal trial for sex offences, after he published a document online which led to "jigsaw identification" of the women who made the allegations against Salmond.

After the Ched Evans rape trial in the early 2010s people were prosecuted for naming the victim online, when Twitter was in its infancy.

The father has said nothing wrong, as R15 makes clear. The media shouldn't have printed the interview.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 36February 1, 2022 7:34 PM

Oh please, the father was focusing on how great his relationship was with Mason and regretting that this was made public instead of vigorously saying that he condemned the violence and abuse that Mason committed to his daughter which is what an actual loving father would have done. But it's likely he does have some kind of financial interest in it.

by Anonymousreply 37February 2, 2022 1:11 AM

Dad doesn’t want to get off the gravy train

by Anonymousreply 38February 2, 2022 6:50 AM

Any shots of his dick?

by Anonymousreply 39February 2, 2022 6:55 AM

I've been digging into this some more and apparently there were rumours back in November that he kidnapped his girlfriend, assaulted her, she called 999 and he was taken into police custody (which is why he missed a game). But Man Utd covered it up, apparently, and there are rumours of an injunction to stop the story coming out then as well. I don't know if any of this is true by the way, just relaying the gossip.

by Anonymousreply 40February 2, 2022 6:55 AM

He can rape and beat me with his meat anytime. Stupid white bitch couldn’t handle the throw down.

This elder gay can and make him beg for more.

by Anonymousreply 41February 2, 2022 6:58 AM

David Goodwillie, who has been found guilty of rape by a civil court, has been signed by Raith Rovers. Not even three days after the Greenwood case, all while Ronaldo continues to play football at the highest level in England. Both clubs and the FA have to take responsibility to create a zero allowance policy on sexual violence and sexual misconduct in football.

When are the massive football clubs with immense capital going to admit they aren’t ‘just clubs’’. They are cultural institutions with enormous amounts of power. Their values and what they do absolutely make an impression on their fans and the kind of people they can be (no matter their background or age). The clubs influence the areas they are in, the local & international community they have created, and so much more. Time to take accountability.

by Anonymousreply 42February 2, 2022 7:26 AM

It doesn't even take death threats to coerce someone. We have no idea what else Maso possibly could've been holding over Harriet in order to keep her from reaching out long ago. Sometimes you just can't escape, because of the cognitive dissonance (you think that maybe one day it'll go back to being good like it used to be), or your terrified gaslit traumatised brain can just fool itself into thinking what's happening is normal or that it's your fault. The human mind does an incredible job of rationalizing bad entrapping situations, so you don't realize you're in a spot as bad as you are, and sometimes it goes as far as making you believe you deserve what's happening as a way to psychologically cope.

We do not know what Harriet has been going through all these years aside from small glimpses that she has bravely shared, and we will never truly understand the full extent of things that she has already experienced. All we can do is support her, and hope Greenwood gets what he deserves and then some.

by Anonymousreply 43February 2, 2022 7:31 AM

How Raith Rovers handle this is going to be worth watching. The club has been sponsored by Val McDermid, the crime writer and famous lesbian for years now (the players shirt have her name on them) but she's cancelled the sponsorship with immediate effect.

Financial concerns are paramount so it will be worth watching to see how the club respond.

As others have pointed out, Manchester United have responded to the Greenwood issue but still pay Cristiano Ronaldo. Ryan Giggs was given a heroes return when he attended a match in September, whilst waiting trial for abusing his girlfriend and her sister. His trial is not set for August as there is a Covid related backlog of criminal cases.

by Anonymousreply 44February 2, 2022 7:39 AM

To follow up on R40, I forgot the link. Dated November 13 2020: this is the story about a footballer arrested on suspicion of rape and false imprisonment but who could not be named for legal reasons.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 45February 2, 2022 7:39 AM

And then there was this story on November 14th that appears to be dropping hints:

[quote]Manchester United officials are desperate for Greenwood to avoid the type of downward spiral that cost Morrison his Old Trafford career. And that’s why after several key meetings, Solskjaer and his staff have devised a strategy to get the teenager back on track. Having watched gifted Morrison – now 27 and playing with Den Haag in Holland – fail to fulfil potential that could have made him a world-beater, there is a genuine belief that Greenwood could fritter his career away.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 46February 2, 2022 7:48 AM

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 47February 2, 2022 7:52 AM

[quote]To follow up on [R40], I forgot the link. Dated November 13 2020: this is the story about a footballer arrested on suspicion of rape and false imprisonment but who could not be named for legal reasons.

Mason Greenwood was an "unexpected omission" in the Manchester United team on 7th November.

From a tweet observing the dates: "If the dates being suggested are true, Mason Greenwood has played 37 Manchester United games since November 2020, including starting a final. If the club knew about this every single person involved needs removing from the sport. Very simple. Hope this helps"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 48February 2, 2022 7:52 AM

Alright, so I was going to say that they compared him to Ravel Morrison why? Because of this:

[quote]"The Manchester United prodigy Ravel Morrison will undergo domestic violence counselling after the third assault charge to be brought against him in as many years was dropped yesterday when his girlfriend refused to testify."

by Anonymousreply 49February 2, 2022 7:53 AM

If you're a footballer at the top, top level, then you're marked out for big things from the age of 15 at least. and you're probably already a legend in your own community. So I guess you never go through the kind of humbling experiences most straight guys go through where they have to keep asking girls for dates or for sex in their mid to late teens and keep getting knocked back until they eventually learn how to talk to girls properly. This guy seems to have developed a very nasty sense of entitlement to sex just because he wants it.

I wonder how big clubs deal with the fact that their players need sex and will get it from somewhere. Take a lot of young, fit, highly sexed guys with a lot of money and time who will find it very easy to get a lot of offers: then take into account that clubs don't like kiss and tells or players seeing prostitutes, because they are still supposed to be role models. Agents and families will also want to protect young guys from gold diggers.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of quiet and informal efforts to get top players set up with steady girlfriends happen under the radar. I also completely wouldn't be surprised if the gay ones were also looked after, probably via a paid arrangement. Football is big big money and Man Utd are about to see their investment spectacularly go up in smoke (which is just as it should be based on what seems to have happened).

by Anonymousreply 50February 2, 2022 8:00 AM

R12 is a complete liar

by Anonymousreply 51February 2, 2022 8:04 AM

R51 Mr. Robson’s words are there in black in white, and anyone who knows how entitled and selfish and cruel some parents can be will be able to interpret those words and infer exactly what the deal is. If you refuse to see it out of some twisted sense of MRA solidarity, that’s on you.

by Anonymousreply 52February 2, 2022 8:31 AM

R46 that is interesting context. The fact that then-manager Ole was made aware of concerning behaviour and took steps to intervene means that it became serious and obvious enough to intervene with training—not a good look for MUFC. Curious to see what backtracking statements will be made in light of this background information.

That being said, no-one really cares now whether Greenwood could or can salvage a career in the face of what he did. He’s a criminal, and most criminals don’t hold jobs at all let alone enjoyable lucrative freelance careers with excellent perks.

And I really don’t understand why so much effort is put into DV counselling after the fact (like R49 mentions) and for perps. It’s better to take steps and use resources to prevent the problem, rather than just treat the issue when it gets too bad to ignore. Plus, the victim should get the bulk of support and protection, not the person who abuses. It’s so regressive to approach the issue this way.

by Anonymousreply 53February 2, 2022 8:36 AM

[quote] I wonder how big clubs deal with the fact that their players need sex and will get it from somewhere.

Sorry, why again do enormous instructions employing thousands of people globally have make way for the libido and frustration problems of entitled manboys? Does that not seem to be entrenching the problem of entitlement that we have identified? Maybe young men could just learn to graciously and peacefully accept that women are selective and less active sexually, and that is just Life and always has been, so deal?

by Anonymousreply 54February 2, 2022 8:39 AM

R54Because of money. Because these players are a massive investment, and there is a huge incentive to keep them out of trouble. Sadly that trouble comes from a sex-negative culture, for which the only thing more fun than reading newspaper stories of players having gangbangs is condemning them for letting down the 12 year old boy with a sticker album full of his heroes.

To be fair to the non-rapists, it must be quite hard for someone with that kind of regimented lifestyle to meet potential partners naturally and build up a relationship over time like most people that age do

by Anonymousreply 55February 2, 2022 8:49 AM

Cut or uncut though?

The wondrous mind must know.

by Anonymousreply 56February 2, 2022 8:55 AM

Honestly can’t believe that, in a thread about a battered raped woman, some posters are parked here trying repeatedly to centre the discussion around incel logic, white-knighting the poor young men who can’t get fucked enough because a cruel place of work or societal expectation means that they can’t get their dicks wet on demand (and this is some kind of ancestral biological imperative that it is impossible to sublimate, apparently, unlike shitting in the streets or human sacrificing).

This is the most nauseated and horrified I have felt reading DL for quite some time. Genuinely hope that Harriet or any other DV survivor never come across this thread.

by Anonymousreply 57February 2, 2022 9:04 AM

r12 counterintuitive as it may seem, the families of abused women take the side of the abuser more often than you'd think.

by Anonymousreply 58February 2, 2022 9:07 AM

r57 I recently read the thread started after Chris Brown attacked Rhianna in 2009.

DL's been a misogynistic cesspool for a long, long time.

by Anonymousreply 59February 2, 2022 9:09 AM

Except R57 that I didn't say the problem was the top footballers aren't getting enough sex. The problem is that they find it very easy to get, relative to most young guys, and don't get properly socialised into how to deal with rejection and with not having sex when you want it, which in extreme cases can end up where Greenwood has ended up.

But hey, I get that wilfully misinterpreting comments on an anonymous board is fun and an excellent time-killer, so knock yourself out.

by Anonymousreply 60February 2, 2022 9:16 AM

[quote] I didn't say the problem was the top footballers aren't getting enough sex. The problem is that they find it very easy to get, relative to most young guys, and don't get properly socialised into how to deal with rejection and with not having sex when you want it.

Once again, you’re pushing responsibility off these men (who are not minors, it should be pointed out) onto a nebulous idea of ‘society’. Who is taking the blame for this, then? Whose responsibility is it to teach men about sexual boundaries? Their mothers? Their teachers? Their pastors? Young civilian women? Where does this buck passing end, exactly?

If young women can be socialised not to walk anywhere alone at night, not to go to certain dangerous places, not to accept drinks or lifts from anyone they don’t know well, not to say certain things to a man (especially when he’s angry), and every other safety rule they’re forced to learn and accept from young—why do boys and young men not have to learn anything or take account for their actions? Why is it up to the rest of polite civilised ‘society’ to police them, drill them, and clean up after them?

by Anonymousreply 61February 2, 2022 9:31 AM

Yes R61 I think it is the responsibility of both parents and teachers to deliver sex education that discusses all the nuances of establishing proper and freely given consent, as well as discussing harassment, inappropriate behaviour, the power that (in particular) men have to make women feel uncomfortable... the sex education I had at school was fairly rudimentary when it came to these things.

I'd be very interested to know where the peer groups of teenage boys are right now in the way they discuss these issues. I don't know any well enough to really judge.

I do think that many, probably most young men do take account of their actions, but they could probably use more support from positive role models who are slightly older.

I do think you're reading a lot into my comments which isn't there, it'd be interesting to know where that tendency comes from.

by Anonymousreply 62February 2, 2022 9:42 AM

[quote] I do think that many, probably most young men do take account of their actions, but they could probably use more support from positive role models who are slightly older.

This I do agree with. The trouble is, a fish rots from the head down, so when heads of state and clergy and glittery celebrities get away with or get off lightly sentenced with rape & assault time and again, it sends a message that these behaviours are not gravely serious and life-ruining. Unfortunately, as much as your suggestion would work in an ideal world with no corrupt men in power, alas we do not live in such a world.

[quote] I do think you're reading a lot into my comments which isn't there, it'd be interesting to know where that tendency comes from.

FWIW I believe I’ve argued with you on this board before about issues of rape culture, and IIRC I found to my disappointment that your comments relayed quite a few alarming superior notes of neoliberal condescension around sexual classism and power dynamics. You seem to be an older male, and I suppose that accounts for the lack of concern and empathy for young women in a society that is reneging on their already-scant safety guarantees. I’m sorry that our calls for help and support offend your rather calficied idealistic notions of chivalry, but we have to deal with the deteriorating world in front of us before we cater to your need to be right/eous, I’m afraid.

You believe what you believe, and I have to respect that. What I don’t have to do is listen to such on a thread dedicated to discussing and supporting the plight of a woman who has been attacked because neither a multimillion pound corporation nor her own parents cared to challenge her abuser in time (can’t emphasise this enough). We can’t lose sight of what happened here, and of similar events that happen DAILY. This case is so important, because though it happened to someone collected to a small elite group, the power dynamic is alarmingly and sadly commonplace.

But I’m sure this comment will be written off as “womansplaining”, rather than the sincere expression of fear and disappointment that it is. Interpret as you will, you’re a man free to think and do as you please, as well you know.

by Anonymousreply 63February 2, 2022 9:55 AM

I don't think the earlier poster was me, at least I don't recall a conversation about rape culture. I just turned 40, don't know if that means 'older male' or not but hopefully not irredeemably so. I do FWIW teach in a university and find my students: -18-25, male and female - very engaged and open about gender and sexuality issues, very openly accepting of difference, and probably much more switched on to the subtle nuances of misogyny than I was at their age. They are all educational achievers and may not be representative of their age group, I guess. The sexual subculture of football is I think even more far removed from the average person's experience, which is what I was trying to think through in my first comment. The opportunity to think through these things out loud is all I really expect from DL threads, the crowd is quite niche here.

In recent years I've definitely become a lot more aware of issues around sexual harassment and intimidation than I was before. Videos like the one below were really useful to me. Sincerely, it's easy for most men to miss the scale of the problem because we don't see it - the men who harass women in the street usually wait until other men are not around. It is much rarer for me to witness an incident of street harassment in person. So, this video was an eye-opener: I definitely think it should be shown in schools. I do genuinely think that most men do not abuse or harass or rape, but if only 1 in 20, 50, or 100 do, then over the course of 10 hours walking through NYC, that clearly adds up to a hell of a lot. I get it more now than I did, but if most men are late to the party I think it's not (just) because we are being obtuse but because we tend to generalise too much from our own experiences.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 64February 2, 2022 10:54 AM

[quote] people on the bird site

I've seen it twice here in two days. Is there one poster determined to make this happen or is it the work of an army of retards?

by Anonymousreply 65February 2, 2022 10:57 AM

R40/R45 isn't about Greenwood. He was 19 on 13 November 2020, the article says the person arrested was in his twenties

R52 If his words did condemn him then you wouldn't need to resort to quoting them selectively and out of context.

by Anonymousreply 66February 2, 2022 11:28 AM

[quote][R40]/[R45] isn't about Greenwood. He was 19 on 13 November 2020, the article says the person arrested was in his twenties

The age isn't right but the timeline or the arrest, Greenwood missing a match and the article comparing him to Ravel Morrison is very strange coincidence, such a coincidence Dierdre Chambers has just shown up.

The stories don't detail the police force either but it's curious it mentions a penalty fine for a lockdown breach.

by Anonymousreply 67February 2, 2022 11:40 AM

well, fwiw, at the time, the gossip was that the player in question was Greenwood. Here's an example of a tweet from Nov 2020 saying so:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 68February 2, 2022 12:22 PM

The November 2020 arrest was in Cheshire, which links to Greenwood.

This story is fascinating - it's clearly been planted by some PR people.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 69February 2, 2022 12:42 PM

The Sports Editor of the Daily Mail tweeted after the arrest that it categorically wasn't Greenwood.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 70February 2, 2022 12:43 PM

Nothing will happen to him. Nothing happened to Ronaldo.

by Anonymousreply 71February 2, 2022 1:17 PM

R71 there wasn't enough evidence in the Ronaldo case to charge him though? Also, the local gossip is that Ronaldo is gay.

by Anonymousreply 72February 2, 2022 1:24 PM

Was that pussy really worth the chatter and bother, dude?

by Anonymousreply 73February 2, 2022 1:34 PM

R72 if it turns out Ronaldo is gay, isn’t that going to incense you as a gay person? To have someone closet themselves, preferring rather to known publicly as a straight sexual predator than a gay man?

by Anonymousreply 74February 2, 2022 1:43 PM

R67 So you just ignore facts to push whatever narrative you want, and then back it up by linking to random tweets?

R70 Thank you for bringing some sanity and actual research.

by Anonymousreply 75February 2, 2022 1:47 PM

There was a lot to charge Ronaldo. He even sent “fixers” to harass this teacher. She took the deal because she horrified.

by Anonymousreply 76February 2, 2022 1:49 PM

*was horrified

by Anonymousreply 77February 2, 2022 1:49 PM

well, this is what Las Vegas prosecutors said: "Based upon a review of information at this time, the allegations of sexual assault against Cristiano Ronaldo cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore, no charges will be forthcoming."

I get that sexual assault charges are really, really hard to prosecute though.

by Anonymousreply 78February 2, 2022 1:52 PM

Do you have the link to that?^ i know the case has been reopened.

by Anonymousreply 79February 2, 2022 1:53 PM

R79 linked, if you meant my post

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 80February 2, 2022 1:55 PM

There is a civil case pending but the judge recommends dismissal. Not sure what’s happening now. That’s too bad. He got away with it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 81February 2, 2022 1:58 PM

[quote] I get that sexual assault charges are really, really hard to prosecute though.

Yes they are, thanks for mentioning that.

Many investigations into rape cases call for concrete DNA evidence, which necessitates that a victim go immediately after an incident to a centre or station to get a rape kit+examination. This is often an unfrasible and unsafe demand to make of a victim of rape/assault, because these incidents happen so often in private spaces or somewhere that the victim cannot seek help or access examination right away (or at all). From the jump, from minute one, victims are triangulated out of getting justice by the very system that alleges to protect, defend and serve the vulnerable.

by Anonymousreply 82February 2, 2022 1:59 PM

^^sorry, that should of course read ‘unFEASIBLE and unsafe demand’

by Anonymousreply 83February 2, 2022 2:01 PM

R82 Yeah, basically this one seems like an almost pure 'he said, she said' thing, so how can anyone know who to believe 'beyond a reasonable doubt'? At least with the Greenwood case she has recordings and pictures although obviously it's disturbing that she had the forethought to record it so it probably had happened many times before.

by Anonymousreply 84February 2, 2022 2:02 PM

Breaking: "The Manchester United player Mason Greenwood has been bailed following his arrest on suspicion of raping, assaulting and threatening to kill a woman. The 20-year-old, who is regarded as one of England’s most talented young footballers, remains under investigation."

by Anonymousreply 85February 2, 2022 2:08 PM

Is this the new normal. You get raped but instead of going to the police to report it, you go on twitter to see how many views/likes/whatevers, you can get.

by Anonymousreply 86February 2, 2022 2:09 PM

R86 I bet she put out the video/recordings so that an injunction couldn't be slapped onto her.

by Anonymousreply 87February 2, 2022 2:10 PM

“”Is this the new normal. You get raped but instead of going to the police to report it, you go on twitter to see how many views/likes/whatevers, you can get.”

Because “going to the police” generally works out so well for rape victims?

by Anonymousreply 88February 2, 2022 2:16 PM

R88 Yes, rape convictions are at a record low here in the UK at the moment and even before then, only 5.7% of reported rape cases ended in a conviction for the perpetrator (Kelly, Lovett and Regan, A gap or a chasm? Attrition in reported rape cases, 2005).

by Anonymousreply 89February 2, 2022 2:23 PM

[quote] people on the bird site saying ‘hIs CaReEr Is OvEr BeCaUsE oF hEr’

I agree with the sentiment expressed in this post but please stop doing this.

by Anonymousreply 90February 2, 2022 2:28 PM

[quote][R86] I bet she put out the video/recordings so that an injunction couldn't be slapped onto her.

A person reporting a criminal offence to the police can't be subject to an injunction. There are very few reasons why the police/CPS won't release the name of someone charged with an offence - in most cases it's because it's a member of the family and releasing the name would identify the victim.

Had she gone to the papers with a story that Greenwood beat her and raped her then he could possibly have sought an injunction on the grounds of privacy but then he'd been admitting the voice in the recording is his.

Ryan Giggs initially sought an injunction because a woman he'd had an affair with was trying to sell her story to the papers. The injunction was eventually lifted after an MP named Giggs, using parliamentary privilege.

by Anonymousreply 91February 2, 2022 2:43 PM

Why is she staying in the relationship?

by Anonymousreply 92February 2, 2022 2:44 PM

R92 fear of violent reprisal, family pressure, financial pressure, social stigmatisation, lack of timely and effective prosecution, gaslighting & trauma...to name but a few.

by Anonymousreply 93February 2, 2022 2:47 PM

Didn't Ronaldo have another accusation of rape in London? IIRC he was with his entourage, including his uncle, at a hotel where the woman was spit roasted. My impression is that she anticipated sexual activity, but not a gang bang and anal.

About Ronaldo bring gay, there was an article in a tabloid from a couple of prostitutes who were sent to his Manchester mansion for him and his pals. They said he was exclusively anal. Make of it what you will.

by Anonymousreply 94February 2, 2022 3:12 PM

It’s possible to be a gay/bi man, and also hate women enough that you get a sick American Psycho-eque thrill out of hurting them. It’s a weird psychological profile, but sadly it does exist. Misogyny has many tentacles, and non-straight men are not always exempt.

Ronaldo’s strange relationship with his mother and daughter, and his rather ambivalent Catholic upbringing give me pause in this regard.

by Anonymousreply 95February 2, 2022 4:17 PM

The whole culture that breeds these monsters is toxic.

by Anonymousreply 96February 2, 2022 5:57 PM

[quote]They said he was exclusively anal. Make of it what you will.

That he doesn't want to risk getting a woman pregnant, outside of his surrogacy arrangement?

by Anonymousreply 97February 2, 2022 6:00 PM

R96 exactly.

And I’m saying that as someone who loves the game, and has done all my life—used to play recreationally as a kid, support my local team, watch every national tournament and domestic final as a family tradition. The football is deeply woven into the fabric of British society, to the point that most citizens know/use its lexicon and recognise its figures & lore. whether they’re fans who follow the game or not. Entire communities have been built and rebuilt around the game, financially and otherwise. To just get rid of, or minimise it, or try to hobble it and disappear it completely would never work now. Can’t put it back in the bottle.

In an ideal world, though, in light of the corruption we’ve uncovered in recent years (not just assault/sexual violence, but also concerning financial & political actions), the Premier League & League 1 would still be liquidated and razed to the ground, so that we can return to a model of severely-capped reasonable spending (on wages, transfers & agents, grounds, competitions, everything) with true financial fair play (not ‘FFP’ fake bullshit) and equal pay for women; ethical education & training with social skills modelling as an intrinsic part of coaching from Under 7s upward; and a blanket ban on taking very young boys & teens out of school to train intensively at academies (they can leave mainstream education to go to one for a few years at 17/18, if they want).

From a perspective of instilling social responsibility into young men, I would also want to see a return to disciplined regimens for players, as they used to have to prior to the Prem (so, in the 1980s and before)—cleaning and repairing their own dressing rooms & stadiums (including painting, carpentry, cutting grass), cleaning toilets & showers, washing team kits & boots, transporting heavy team equipment, washing dishes in the club canteen, stocking merchandise, etc. Everyone mucks in, from Juniors to Seniors, no exceptions (though still with a hierarchy of sorts in place to incentivise). And make them all have mandatory counselling sessions and yearly psych exams, Herb Brooks-style.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 98February 2, 2022 6:27 PM

^^also to have players go out volunteering in the local community several times a year does a lot to instil a sense of responsibility, though that alone is not enough, and it cannot merely be an excuse to get good PR.

Some clubs already do make efforts to this end, to be fair.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 99February 2, 2022 6:30 PM

R94, in 2005, two women accused Ronaldo of rape. The charges were quickly shut down, and people forgot about them, at least for awhile.

by Anonymousreply 100February 2, 2022 6:34 PM

Why are there idiots on this thread acting like only footballers are rapists? R98 is basically taking the 'footballers are paid too much' argument and somehow trying to twist it into a cure for rape culture. If you want to whine they didn't have it as hard as in your day, fine, but don't dress it up as the cause of their appalling attitudes towards women.

It's not just footballers. It's everywhere. Making the few kids chosen to play football wash dishes isn't going to make a dent.

by Anonymousreply 101February 2, 2022 6:53 PM

While the actions of some are absolutely reprehensible, it's also important not to generalise about footballers or to demonise them - easy to do when it comes to young, often working class and black lads with a lot of money. A lot of footballers have a genuine social conscience and make hugely positive contributions reaching far beyond sport - look at Marcus Rashford single-handedly forcing a government U-turn on school meals for disadvantaged kids, or look at the English team taking on the Tory government on the issue of taking the knee and racism in society. And let's not forget the significant numbers at all levels of the game who wear the rainbow laces each year.

If you really think that the problem is that they don't paint and renovate their own dressing rooms any more there really is something wrong with you.

by Anonymousreply 102February 2, 2022 6:56 PM

R101/R102 oOf imagine trying insidiously to recentre a discussion about a named individual traumatised white woman around the sufferings of nebulous POC men with wealth privileges (nb. trying to be a white saviour is a fairly racist approach....)

by Anonymousreply 103February 2, 2022 7:09 PM

It's a datalounge thread R103, it is not going to change the world.

by Anonymousreply 104February 2, 2022 7:13 PM

LOL R103 do you really think anyone is going to fall for that pathetically weak attempt at a strawman? How exactly does it work when my exact point was this problem goes well behind "POC men with wealth privileges".

As for "trying insidiously to recentre a discussion..." - you're the one trying to turn the topic to "these bloody footballers are paid too much, they should have to paint the locker room".

by Anonymousreply 105February 2, 2022 7:13 PM

Beyond, not behind

by Anonymousreply 106February 2, 2022 7:14 PM

And if there's any oof to be had in this thread, it's in response to the turgid overwriting of one particular poster.

by Anonymousreply 107February 2, 2022 7:15 PM

Who is this ex-football star (38 years old) who was arrested on Sunday for attacking a woman in her 20s, and why can't these people be named?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 108February 4, 2022 2:42 AM

[quote] Because “going to the police” generally works out so well for rape victims?

Sometimes the police rape and kill you--and their police friends, who knew their fellow officer was a rapist, do nothing.

One of the few positives of social media has been exposing all sorts of crimes that used to be swept under the rug.

by Anonymousreply 109February 4, 2022 2:56 AM

Nike have told The Athletic that they will officially no longer endorse Greenwood.

Interestingly the media have been reporting that 1 player in particular at Man Utd has been saying that Greenwood should be assumed as innocent before the official verdict. If you know how to read hints and subtext, this player is Jesse Lingard, which would make sense since he seems like the kind of personality to value loyalty above anything else.

But if Nike and co were so quick to drop him before the investigations were concluded, that makes me wonder, did they know of past concerns or incidents?

by Anonymousreply 110February 7, 2022 1:35 PM

R108, it is often to protect the identity of the victim.

by Anonymousreply 111February 7, 2022 1:39 PM

[quote]Who is this ex-football star (38 years old) who was arrested on Sunday for attacking a woman in her 20s, and why can't these people be named?

Not a household name

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 112February 7, 2022 1:43 PM

R112 Thanks. It's still a bit weird to me that they get anonymity when I don't see that for random assholes in my local paper.

by Anonymousreply 113February 7, 2022 1:47 PM

R9...They sure seem to. Black women wouldn't put up with that shit and fight back. These guys go for the easy targets.

by Anonymousreply 114February 7, 2022 2:27 PM

They do. Old Asian women, 80 year old white women. Old white men in wheel chairs. White gay men.

by Anonymousreply 115February 7, 2022 2:49 PM

They go for the meek and weak.

by Anonymousreply 116February 7, 2022 2:50 PM

There's Jew hating obsessives in the Jimmy Carr thread and anti Black obsessives here.

Datalounge loves its white supremacists.

by Anonymousreply 117February 7, 2022 3:03 PM

R117 respectfully, what does that have to do with this case? Mason Greenwood is a mixed-race man who is accused of domestic violence and death threats against his White girlfriend.

by Anonymousreply 118February 7, 2022 3:31 PM

Respectfully, you don't think statements like "Black men love beating up white women" and "Black women wouldn't put up with that shit and fight back. These guys go for the easy targets" are racist as fuck?

by Anonymousreply 119February 7, 2022 3:34 PM

I agree with it's the sports culture behind the institutions and players that is damaging. It's very tribal...much like politics in the US now (as an example)...that make people really crazy as fans...almost like a cult. The players are put on a pedestal, like they are gods....and are way overpaid. That leads to extreme arrogance and "nothing can touch me" because they are so valuable to the teams....winning games brings in a ton of money for all involved. It really comes down to money, as like with everything, so much is hidden and overlooked and excused. A valuable player, especially if he's a star, would hurt the bottom line. I really despise this culture.

by Anonymousreply 120February 7, 2022 3:36 PM

R120 Really have to agree.

by Anonymousreply 121February 7, 2022 3:37 PM

[quote]I agree with it's the sports culture behind the institutions and players that is damaging. It's very tribal...much like politics in the US now (as an example)...that make people really crazy as fans...almost like a cult. The players are put on a pedestal, like they are gods....and are way overpaid. That leads to extreme arrogance and "nothing can touch me" because they are so valuable to the teams....winning games brings in a ton of money for all involved. It really comes down to money, as like with everything, so much is hidden and overlooked and excused. A valuable player, especially if he's a star, would hurt the bottom line. I really despise this culture.

That doesn't just apply to sports culture and it's not a new thing. It applies to pretty much any culture where a person has value and an element of fandom exists. Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, Woody Allen, Roman Polanski.

Convicted violent sex offender Boy George was on the BBC yesterday discussing how life changed in Britain during the 70 years of the Queen's reign.

The main difference now is that social media has made it easier to get the accusations about people out there, where newspapers, magazines or tv stations would previously err on the side of caution. And social media makes it easier for campaigns to spring up out of nowhere, as happened with Raith Rovers who have now said rapist David Goodwillie will NOT sign for them, but have faced massive reputational damage regardless.

by Anonymousreply 122February 7, 2022 3:53 PM

Break in the case: Greenwood has just been arrested again, on suspicion of breaching terms of his bail by attempting to contact Robson.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 123October 15, 2022 4:43 PM

greenwood was arrested for breaching bail conditions last week, got charged, held in custody & only 2 days later he got a private hearing and has now been released on bail.

there’s absolutely zero protection for victims but thousands of opportunities for abusers especially ones with money.

can this cunt just die asap

by Anonymousreply 124October 19, 2022 10:27 AM

Almost six months after the last update, it would seem Mason & Harriet are still back living together, and all 12 key witnesses have withdrawn statements from the case against Mason in light of ‘new evidence’—which is likely to be a walk-back amendment and amelioration of Harriet’s original statement—so CPS feel they can’t move forward with a prosecution.

As an outcome this is so unbelievably sick and sad, but unfortunately not uncommon in cases like these. DA victims are often so brainwashed by and afraid of their abuser that they’ll respond to threats or conversely to lovebombing and vague promises to change like a dog to a whistle. Fuck knows what Mason said to her or bribed/threatened her with to get her to stay. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

The horrifying thing is though that by coercing her back, Mason has essentially implicated himself. Because why would a man ever maintain contact with a woman who was lying and faking that he SAed her? If that were the case like some say, then he’d get a restraining order against *her* and never go near her or get in contact. He’s clearly trying to buy or force her silence.

Suspect actually that Mason’s legal team have instructed him to get back with her and cosy up for a year to make the whole case seem like a CNC misunderstanding, to pay her off with gifts and a house and so on so she’s less inclined to talk to cops or go public ever again, then quietly dump her when everything has finally blown over and their names stop circulating socials and the papers. He’ll just go on to do this to some other girl, probably in some other country with more lax media (he can’t play in England again for a long time).

Mason could theoretically be prosecuted again if he were accused, as there’s no double jeopardy in England & Wales, but all the evidence brought would have to be new and recent and more compelling than the last time. It’s such shit, burdening the victim so heavily when they’ve already suffered so much. And sex crimes are notoriously difficult to prosecute anyhow, because the defense will drag up any irrelevant dirt they can find and batter the case with it—exes, type of preferred sex, what the victim was wearing, whether you are the ‘right’ kind of victim according to past case studies.

Honestly, am just praying that Harriet doesn’t agree to marry him or have children with him. Mason already has a daughter, apparently, an oops baby that he fathered as a teen during an ONS—can’t imagine the horror of a young girl having a father like that, even an absent one.

by Anonymousreply 125March 13, 2023 3:44 PM

Sad^.

by Anonymousreply 126March 13, 2023 4:20 PM

Was he the footballer who was the answer of a massive blind item of twitter a few years ago when an unknown footballer was under investigation for sexual assault?

by Anonymousreply 127March 13, 2023 4:31 PM

R127 it’s not been confirmed, but it seems that way, yes.

Old Trafford have been caught selling his merch this season. Unconscionable. The club have thousands of female fans & staff, as well as a womens’ & girls’ team. How can they justify this?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 128March 14, 2023 1:24 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!