Parents who regret having kids

Fertility drugs and IVF defy nature's intentions.

They won't be denied their accessories of success.

Every single parent secretly regrets it, I think. But, people are just programmed that it's the thing to do. "Oh, everyone, look at us, we're a family!"

But YOU made them that way. This makes no sense to me. It's like people with poorly trained dogs. It's absolutely insane- YOU created the little assholes, you indulged and reinforced their awful behavior. The parents are the problem. And they take no responsibility.

I see rude, awful children out and about. I am mid 30s, but I correct their grammar and posture and behavior like a bitch on wheels Grandma and their lazy mothers cower in fear.

GET A BACKBONE, SOWS.

Children are not useful until they are adults.

Parents talking publicly about regretting kids is extremely tacky and mean. Maybe they should keep it to themselves.

Good. It helps bust the myth that parenthood is necessary to your life.

Before we had kids I was kind of on the fence because of stories like this. A lot of unhappy families. But once we had kids I kind of felt pissed at all the people who said raising kids was terrible. Because I love it and wish we had started earlier and maybe had one more. It is the joy of my life.

My sister had two kids and both were physically defective. So, she adopted twin boys and they turned out to b bad seeds. Sometimes, it is the luck of the draw and you 'don't know what you're gonna get'. For me, I am not sure I could live with a perfect child, muck less a defective one. I have found some people feel the same way, but they get caught up in the moment and live to regret it.

Children cost so much money for everything.

They talk about it to childless strangers when they’re tired and drunk, on vacation.

If only...

I’m glad I had an abortion!

Has Mrs. Patsey Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO commented yet?

Duh, that’s why there is social pressure to have children…it was seen as a duty for millennia for a reason….

How wonderful for the children to grow up and realize they were unwanted, essentially.

I feel I've said enough on this topic.

r16 if we look at what coddling did to millennials and Z, maybe it's time for another wave of dysfunction.

The world does not need more unwanted children, the world needs more abortions. Children are indeed useless and worthless,, and a burden on the taxpayer. The unwanted and unloved children end up in prison draining the tax base as well. I prefer furry obedient pets, they're more grateful and affectionate and love you back. You can see it in their sweet faces.

[quote]She never wanted children (“I was very independent,” she says)—her husband did. “It would have been a deal-breaker.” Parenthood put an untenable strain on the marriage; her husband wasn’t as involved as she wanted; they separated.

So, she either:

- went into the marriage thinking she could change his mind about children.

- went into the marriage without having literally one of the most basic discussions and agreements

- selfishly had children as a tool to save her marriage.

Stop making these delusional and selfish harridans into some kind of hero. From beginning to end, their motives were self-serving and selfish.

R17, actions speak louder than words.

r19 which is why we should support pro-choice options up to two hundred and sixteen months.

The MAD tv skit is too. Damn. Funny.

[quote]Has Mrs. Patsey Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO commented yet?

After December '96, what more do you want?

These hysterical sluts need a few smacks across their face from the fathers of their children. Absolutely horrendous behavior.

My mother=OP

My parents should have never had kids,at least not with each other. Mother got knocked up and they had to marry and she got pregnant with me 2 months after having my brother. I felt my fathers resentment all my life . Having me just cemented his feeling trapped. I know too many people who wished theyd not had kids and always end up divorced. Then the mother uses them as a weapon against the father ,who resents it,and the kids grow up as miserable as their parents.

The babies are fine. It's when they grow up you realize it was a mistake.

They don't visit you. They send emojis instead.

They never ask how you are doing because they don't care,

They are snide and resentful for some remark you made 10 years ago.

They blame you for every fucking thing that goes wrong in their life.

If you try to help them avoid things going wrong they hate you for acting like a know-it-all.

You are an object of ridicule and are forced to laugh at their jokes at your expense to keep the peace.

They insist you owe them everything because they didn't ask to be born.

If one of them is nice to you the others say you play favorites.

One of these days I'm going to disappear and not leave a forwarding address. They probably won't notice.

Is that Kate Middleton in the profile picture cause if so we agree. More royals is not what this world needs.

What r9 said.

[quote] How wonderful for the children to grow up and realize they were unwanted, essentially.

Please. I thank my lucky stars for a Mom, who was, apparently, waaay ahead of her time. When I was a child, one day, in moment of frustration and anger, she said out loud, "Don't ever have children!"

My feelings weren't hurt. Those words came out of the same person, along with our Dad, who was home every night, who wasn't a "Wine Mom", who gave her time and life to her children.

Who was wise enough to let us know we weren't her and Dad's peer, and put something into us.

Brats are made by parents who don't put the effort into discipline and boundaries, because it's easier not to and avoid the consistent, plain old-fashioned work of child-rearing.

My parents were poor and working class with 7 children. Every Christmas morning, however, they produced magic, because, at 4:00am in the morning, they were whispering and arguing with each other over toys assembly instructions.

That's what parenthood is. It's not anything else. And it doesn't solve stupid social constructs and conventions about what we're "supposed" to do.

Better make-up your mind to that BEFORE you decide to have a child.

I don't have children. I wanted to devote my life and my body to myself and it never occurred to me that I owe an explanation or apology to anybody for that, because I don't.

Mom was wise enough to say to her children "Humans aren't required to have children" and, "Your figure won't be again what it was before you have and child" and most of all, "Being a parent never ends. Unless you want to give up your own life, don't do it."

I wish my Mom wouldn't have had children She was a beautiful, talented, wise woman and I wonder what her life would have been like without us.

r30 your parents sound like wonderful people. 7 kids, must be Catholic.

lol, r31. They were both - wonderful and Catholic.

Thanks

Over the past few years I've known several women who were vocal about not wanting kids, suddenly get pregnant in their late 30's. All of them were confident in their choice, but all are married to men who never let go of the possibility of becoming dads. None of the women seem to have done a complete 180 and fully embrace motherhood, but so far nobody has pulled a Susan Smith.

All women are genetically programmed to want kids. The ones who don’t are either lying to themselves or others or both — basically, they think they won’t find a quality man who will want kids with them in time, so they’re saying the equivalent of “you can’t fire me, I quit.”

Ugh, I hate to agree with D-Facto of all people, but there is an element of truth in his observation. Most women who say they don't want kids, are like me when I say I'm happy being alone. I wish I could find someone to spend my life with, but I have no luck in the dating arena. Therefore, it's easier to pretend I'm happier by myself rather than dwell on being single.

A lot of the women I know who claimed to prefer being childless, or on the fence about having children, tend to have health issues. I wonder if that factors into their decision (because every single last one of them are obsessive about their pets...which highlights how they're not against taking care of another living thing).

[quote] All women are genetically programmed to want kids.

Aside from the dubious assertion here, for the sake of argument, let's operate from the premise that there is something to it.

So? Because a person may be genetically programmed, that doesn't obviate that person's volitional choices and decision-making.

I know that's what really scares the Bejesus outta right-wing social managers. Volitional choices and decision making? We can't have that for women!

Mind your own damn business.

[quote] All women are genetically programmed to want kids.

Yeah, but that isn't the topic. The question is whether people regret having them. You can have the drive to have kids and end up regretting it, once you have them.

[quote] Ugh, I hate to agree with D-Facto of all people, but there is an element of truth in his observation.

Moving up the ladder!

[quote]Stop making these delusional and selfish harridans into some kind of hero. From beginning to end, their motives were self-serving and selfish.

But there is good in removing the stigma from speaking honestly about it.

The ones who need to hear it the most are the females who will think and behave just like these ‘mothers’ did before they got themselves into this fine mess.

There are plenty of females who should not be mothers and will hear their future selves griping in these regretful mothers’ words.

Parent and child are having a loud argument. Child sulks and yells, "I didn't ask to be born!"

I just wonder at that moment the parent's unvoiced response is.

Men and women aren't genetically programmed to want kids. They're programmed to want sex, and sex leads to kids. It's nature's way of tricking us (and other animals) into procreation.

D-Facto is parroting Candace Owen in pushing Republican beliefs. (The want all women barefoot, pregnant, at home, and subservient to men.)

It's society (not nature) that indoctrinates girls into thinking their main purpose is to be a baby incubator for a man. The neighbors gave their 1-year-old daughter a babydoll for her birthday, and I wanted to vomit. We don't use dolls to brainwash little boys that parenthood is their main purpose in life.

Then from the time a woman is 18, if she has a boyfriend, she will frequently hear "so, when are you having kids" from her parents, extended family, friends, coworkers, neighbors and strangers. It's just expected of women; it's hard to withstand that constant pressure from age 1 to 45.

ME ME ME

I miss when this place had no radfems.

Women aren't like other females. They don't have the instinct of breed. For some reason there's so much societal pressure for them to breed. If it wasn't the case, women would have kids without thinking much about it. Women who didn't want kids always existed. They just didn't know there was another alternative.

There's enough of awful stories about regretful parents, I don't care about the programming thing (And I believe it's more social than anything else),women who don't feel like having kids shouldn't play Russian roulette with a child.

And don't get me started at childfree men and especially childfree women who feel in love with someone who really wishes kids and "give it a try". Then comes the kid and they don't feel any connection. Then the stress and couple who were so much in love divorce. And the partner who "really wanted kids" hardly see him and it's the partner who wanted to be childfree who has the burden.

Oh yes, like the earth isn't insanely overpopulated. We don't need anymore damn kids! Not to mention how many kids are abandoned, abused, and neglected.

I'm all for the right people having children if they can afford them.

Kids are selfish. Kids are loud. They are unreasonable and petty and lack empathy. They are literally wild humans.

Anyone who doesn't know that before they get into it is stupid. There are many moments when every parent regrets having kids - it's nothing new.

Part of the problem is that we've made it so fucking hard - both parents have to work usually and childcare, healthcare and education is so expensive. There is no relief - and people wonder why the birthrates are going down.

I think many parents do regret their decisions to have kids, but it's very taboo to talk about it. They would be shamed horribly, so they only talk about it with very close friends...and anonymously with strangers on Reddit.

It seems to mostly be women. They had a kid, often by choice, and the father didn't lift a finger to help with changing diapers, feeding, dressing, watching, driving to school. For some reason, many often have another kid with the guy, even knowing he's lazy. (Because once you have one kid, everyone starts asking when you're having the next one.). Then, they found out that daycare took up 80 percent of their paycheck, and it was cheaper to just stay home with the kids. So the mom sacrifices her career. She's stuck in the house all day with the kids and no one else to talk to. The husband gets home from work (where he enjoyed quiet and collegial stimulation) and is "too tired" to help out with the kids. Some of these men are immature and still want to play video games in their free time instead of spending time with the kids. (He's not too tired for sex later, though.) The woman feels like a 1950s housewife. For all the talk about gender equality over the last few generations, parenthood really hasn't changed all that much for women. Some of these women divorce, and then they're "single moms" who have trouble dating or finding free time for any hobbies. They can't even have five minutes to themselves until their kids go to school.

The men who have regrets often had kids by accident before they were ready. They felt obligated to marry the mother, and then they felt trapped having to maintain the facade of the perfect family life when they're miserable inside.

Once the kids are grown and out of the house, maybe the regret fades for many parents. But, I've some some cases where grown kids who had happy childhoods were just "too busy" to call or visit their parents because they were absorbed with their own kids or spouse. Some adult kids have their own babies and then guilt grandma and grandpa into being free childcare providers. Then there are the kids who are always asking for money, and they stop speaking to parents who say no. Some adult kids are hooked on drugs or have personality disorders that cause them to be cruel to parents who were kind to them. If you really wanted kids with all your heart, these things might not be so hard to deal with. But if you weren't sure you had kids, you got knocked up on accident and decided to go along with it, and then you sacrificed your career to take care of your spawn, and these things happened, it would really suck.

R25 should have been in a dumpster behind Planned Parenthood

Defacto (R25) is a troll, right? Republican, anti-gay, anti-women's rights...on a liberal message board.

[quote] D-Facto is parroting Candace Owen in pushing Republican beliefs

My haters are soooo lazy. That’s the most annoying part of having haters.

I think Candace is a grifter and have said so many times.

R50 it’s a gay male message board, not a liberal one.

R52, not many gay men want to align with the party that wants to deny their civil rights.

R48 - to be fair, the world has changed a lot too where children are almost required to be dependent on their parents for longer periods of time. Wages have not kept up with price increases so those kids that would have been out of the house in their 20's are STILL THERE and that's not great. Moving out and taking care of yourself shakes you up to realities of life - many are not getting that shock and maturity.

Plus raising kids now is so full of expectations that just were not there decades ago. People had kids and that was part of life. The kids played on their own - were sent outside until dinner and kept themselves occupied. Now, there are literally laws in areas that you cannot leave a child 14 or under unaccompanied for any significant period of time. Kids have 'playdates', tons of activities, and all sorts of pressures that just didn't exist years ago.

They've turned child-rearing into a structured job with performance measurements and if you don't hit those, then you're failing your kids.

R53 I didn’t say anything about aligning with any party, you attributed that motive to me.

[quote] For some reason there's so much societal pressure for them to breed.

It's for a very obvious reason. Men can't have children without women. If they can't convince women their lives are empty and meaningless without kids, they don't have a chance of getting male children. And other women play into it, because misery loves company.

R55, you are notorious here for repeating Republican talking points. If you're not Republican, then you just get off on being contrary and stirring up shit (troll).

Took me a long time to realize the reason all the straight guys enjoyed work was because it was better than their homes. It does seem to contribute to success at work - as I always hated work because my home life was all I wanted. Having kids guarantees capitalism of its workforce - because the parents don’t have a choice. Being childless gives you so much freedom in life. Perhaps freedom can equate to loneliness for some. But if you enjoy your own company, it’s bliss.

R57 definitely the latter. I’m not a Republican.

What's bizarre are the breeders who might have had a relatively content life with one or 2 children drag themselves into misery and financial problems by compulsively spitting out more.

R60, it seems like there's been a trend in having big families over the past 20 years. Maybe because of the rise of religion and the Duggar family (before the scandals). My home town is a rural suburb, and it used to have modest homes with 3 or 4 bedrooms. Now all the new subdivisions are full of McMansions with 5 or more bedrooms. I think that having lots of kids is a way to show others how wealthy you are, and it makes for more interesting photos for social media. However, a lot of these people with lots of kids in their McMansions have huge amounts of credit card debt. (like Chris and Shannon Watts, who were expecting. third kid though they were just barely getting by)

Is this the sequel to "Kids who regret having parents?"

I think personal psychology plays a pretty big part in how people respond to parenthood. My mom, who was never particularly broody as a girl and young woman, took to the “job requirements” of being a mother to children really well. If we are talking Big 5, she is strong when it comes to openness to experience and agreeableness, while being low in neuroticism, extraversion and conscientiousness. She’d self-deprecatingly describe herself as hopelessly slapdash and dreamy, but that meant that living in a loud messy house with the constant interruptions and mini-crises that children bring was a challenge she was up for (and in some cases probably leaned into when it came to shrugging off housework -much to the horror of my very type-A depression-baby grandmother), land that as a imaginative smell-the-roses type with a strong internally-driven sense of herself she was very well-suited to cope with the isolation and lack of external validation and prestige that stay-at-home mothers often struggle with.

Every developed country around the world is facing the same issue. Countries where women have less equality are having an even tougher time of it - Italy, South Korea, Japan.

They're not going along with it anymore - and good for them. But is anyone coming up with any practical solutions? Nope. Because that would force them to look at the problems and causes of it - and men don't want to see that.

[quote]Having kids guarantees capitalism of its workforce - because the parents don’t have a choice.

Having kids benefits capitalism in other ways. In 20 years, the business owners want an even bigger population. That means more people to buy their products and services. But, even more, the higher the population, the more competition there will be for workers to find jobs. Desperate for jobs, applicants will be more willing to settle for lower wages and fewer benefits. So the rich business owners benefit, as well as their sons who will inherit the business during that time.

Life is full of disappointments. Why have 2.5 more? Everyone wants the head cheerleader, sports star, doctor, senator etc. but often times end up with a goth cutting freak, ultra femme queen, mechanic, waitress etc... The only people who benefit from people having kids are therapists and liquor store owners.

Poland is doing some fucked up shit to try to increase its birth rate.

They've banned all abortions. Any doctor who participates in an abortion can go to prison. There was recently a case where a woman pregnant with twins passed away. One twin had died, but doctors refused to perform an abortion because there was a chance the other twin could live. The woman died of sepsis.

There is also talk of basing their equivalent of social security on the number of kids a person has. If you don't have kids, you get zero benefit, even if you paid taxes. That will force people to settle with incompatible partners to have kids they don't even want. I can't imagine their society would be any better when a generation of unwanted, unloved kids comes of age.

Russia should invade Poland instead.

[quote] My haters are soooo lazy. That’s the most annoying part of having haters.

Don't confuse annoyance with hate. You're a nuisance, like an insignificant pest. No one "hates" you.

The misery of having kids would be alleviated greatly if straight men shared in the child rearing duties. Every happily married mother I know is that way because they have a partner who helps out equally or makes a shit ton of money so they can hire nannies and maids.

Also the stigma of regretting children seems to come from the middle classes and upward. Working class women have always been very vocal around me about how they would not have kids again if given the choice. They weren't drunk when they said it either.

My cousin has a husband who helps with everything, but she's still miserable. And now, he's miserable too, because he has to work AND take care of the kids. The big problem is women starting families when they're old. That never used to happen, but now it's very common for women to start having kids after 35. Of course, you're going to be exhausted chasing after toddlers at 40. And then, on top of that, your own parents are aging and will need your help.

They've never been introduced to the verity that children are financial and temporal blackholes?

R71 - the delay in childbirth is due to finances and the cost of having kids. What 25 year olds can pop out kids without any worries nowadays?

[quote]The big problem is women starting families when they're old. That never used to happen, but now it's very common for women to start having kids after 35. Of course, you're going to be exhausted chasing after toddlers at 40. And then, on top of that, your own parents are aging and will need your help.

It's long been common for men to start families (and second families) I their 30s, 40s, and 50s. But they weren't expected to chase after toddlers. And, were they ever expected to help with their parents, or was that "women's work", too? Poor 1950s women. Get married and knocked up in your 20s before you even have a chance to live on your own. Raise your kids. Have maybe five good years to yourself, and then take care of your parents. Just be a servant your whole life. And your religion will tell you that you should feel good about that.

[quote] I prefer furry obedient pets, they're more grateful and affectionate and love you back. You can see it in their sweet faces.

Hmm, yes... I see what you mean.

I gave my husband three kids. I was the perfect housewife; I sacrificed my career to take care of the kids, clean the house, and cook meals for him and the the kids. I agreed to do it all on a very tight budget so that he could go back to school. Then when he got to the point of his career when he started making big money, he dumped me for a younger woman. The kids liked him more than me because he had more money, while I was (understandably) tired and bitter.

Sometimes they just get in the way of life. But I would never harm them.

R73 Children are a financial black hole no matter what age you have them. I don’t think it’s solely to due to finances, though.

Women complain they can’t find good men. As women become college educated at a greater rate than men, many women don’t want to settle for someone who makes less than them or is less educated. Also, western societies are less religious, so there’s no guilt or pressure to marry the woman you’re sleeping with. And really, why buy the cow when the milk is free?

As for finances, we’ve become programmed to want too much stuff for our kids. Instead of a simple $20 stroller, every frau wants the $2000 one. Can’t make do with the free diaper bag from the hospital, has to be Gucci or LV! Even the technologoy in diapers has delayed potty training. My grandmother says all her kids were trained by age one because it was hell to wash those shit filled diapers and disposable were a fantasy back then, so they made sure the kid was trained asap. And for suburban fraus, everything has to be designer or top of the line, from the preschool they go to (not the city program, oh no, must be Montessori!) to private colleges where little Ashleigh gets a useless gender studies degree.

Yes, kids are expensive but it’s worse only if you try to keep up with the Joneses.

R69

R295 of this thread disagrees with you and specifically says he and the Hillbot mob hate me.

But I bet they don’t regret having their children around when they are old, weak and close to death….

R[80] 🙄

[quote] But I bet they don’t regret having their children around when they are old, weak and close to death….

Unless, said children are just getting out of prison and looking for a place to crash.

[quote]your parents sound like wonderful people. 7 kids, must be Catholic.

My atheist grandparents had 12 kids. Whenever my aunt was asked if they were Catholic, she'd reply, "No, they just liked to fuck."

What r78 said.

Throw in popular culture, tech devices, social media and you have the perfect shitstorm of parenting hell.

As someone upthread noted, children's play time is different now.

Back in the Pleistocene Epoch, er, excuse me, I mean the 60s and 70s, after morning chores, we were booted outta the house and told not to come back until the afternoon to check-in.

Oh, and while doing that we learned socialization, verbal and communication skills using ears, eyes and voicebox; no outsourcing it to Apple, Android, Twitter, Tik Tok.

And it's worth noting that tech billionaires don't allow, or severely limit, their own children's social media and cell devices, not only for security reasons but because they know they created cesspools of all the worst that humans can display and they want their children as far away from it as possible, but your children are commodities they have no hesitation making money off of.

And while we' re at it, throw climate change into the mix .

Having a child nowadays? I made a choice not to be a parent; others have the choice to become one, but really?

And lol, r83

Thank you, Della! As gracious as ever. We must have tea, sometime.

R80, how long does the period of "old, weak and close to death" last? It's going to suck anyway, whether you have 0 or 10 kids. Is it better to sacrifice and suffer 20 (or 30 or 40 years) just so someone will hold your hand those last two days? Doesn't sound like a good return on investment to me.

My uncle's two grown daughters didn't even visit him in the hospital when he was on his deathbed with cancer. He worked full time at 75, never retiring, because he was basically still paying child support to his daughters. One was in her 50s, and the other was in her 30s. Though they didn't visit him in the hospital, they showed up at the funeral and demanded to know if there was a will. And one asked if she should sue his wife (of 30 years) for a cut of the profit she made when she sold their house.

My aunt's only child died at age 22 in a car accident. She killed herself three years later when she was high on cocaine. He was her whole world, and when he was gone, she felt ungrounded.

Having kids doesn't guarantee you'll have "someone to take care of you" when you're old. That's not their responsibility anyway. They need to take care of their own lives, and unless you're selfish, you'll want them to be free of any added burden.

Smoooches, Tallulah. Love to.

Glad you enjoyed it, Della.

[quote]All women are genetically programmed to want kids.

Lol, nope. Using absolutes like "all" is the intellectually lazy hallmark of a troll.

My mum was ambivalent about kids - it was my dad who wanted heaps. I think that's the case a lot of the time. My mum was awesome but we never saw my dad as he was a workaholic and the entirety of the burden was placed on her. After seeing that I decided that I would never have kids (although I'm gay so that is less of an option).

I've worked with plenty of women who said they loved their kids but if they could go back in time they wouldn't have had children. They tend to unburden themselves on childless people. I think it's frequently the case that the man wants them, rather than the women (who have to do all the work).

R80 is that dipshit who kept calling childfree straight women "selfish" on last week's thread, "Do you have children?"

R90, women don’t have to do all the work.

I know some men who do the bulk of it. My BIL does every fucking thing. I’ve seen him change countless diapers. I’ve seen SIL change about three - and they have three children. He cooks and cleans and bathes the kids when the nannies aren’t on duty. And they both have high-powered careers and make a shitload of money. People just ooh and ahh over SIL “How does she do it? She looks fabulous all the time, she’s breaking ceilings, she’s got three kids and two homes and making a ton of money!”

He does it all.

R92, does your SIL regret having kids? I'm guessing "no" if she has a nanny and a husband who's willing to do more than his share. But...95 percent of straight mothers don't have that.

You just said they have nannies. I think we know who's doing it all. I'm talking about people without paid help. Often, the women has to do the majority of home care and childcare. And even husbands who help out with kids still don't take care of their aging parents. That still falls on the female children. If you have only male children, expect to be put into a home.

R94, often a wife was expected to take care of both her own aging parents and then her husband's aging parents. The husband just kept going to work to escape the household (just like he did when their kids were still at home).

My parents are Catholic and have had many friends who are priests and nuns. My mom has said that basically every priest has eventually confided in her about feeling sad and regretful that he never got to experience the love of marriage and family life that she and my dad have had or if he was gay (and probably half or more of them have been) that he didn’t get the life that her gay son has experienced (the ability to live openly, the default presumption of social acceptance, having a partner welcomed as part of the family). Whereas the nuns have all been profoundly happy in their vocations and seem to have none of the existential loneliness of their male counterparts.

R92 Your BIL is a pussywhipped beta male. Poor, dumb oaf.

My mother regretted having my sister. My mother was very chic and feminine. My sister was fat and clumsy and incredibly unladylike from the time she was a very small child and had no interest in learning about fashion and social graces.

My mother was incredibly disappointed in her and confided in me many times that she wished she’d listened to my father and had an abortion. When my mother was on her deathbed, she told me to keep my sister away because she wanted her last moments to be happy and seeing my sister (who I’m sure would’ve made my mother miserable by airing her grievances at her one final time) would’ve annoyed her.

There are a lot of parents (like R98’s mom) who are clearly not cut out for raising children of their same sex.

I have two uncles who admit that they are relieved they only had girls because they know they wouldn’t have been able to help themselves from eating sons alive.

do women really need anymore vanity projects that declare you're perfect no matter what, no consequences, no responsibility, so go eat pray love. you're totally a carrie. more wine?

My uncle and his first wife broke their backs for their two daughters: ballet, skating, gymnastics and I don't know what else. They ended up divorcing.

Today the first daughter, now middle-aged, drifts from menial job to menial job (last I heard she was a perfume lady at a department store), while the second daughter hangs around ecoterrorist groups and has an unemployed white boyfriend with dreadlocks. They do NOTHING for their parents except get in contact if they need money or a lawyer.

My uncle's very cool second wife, who never had kids, can't stand the way they treat their father. At family occasions I'll seek her out and say "I knew there was something I forgot to do before I left the house ... oh, yes. HAVE CHILDREN." And we laugh.

The bizarre and not expected result of womens lib is women in workforce no parents at home , now it takes two parents working to afford what 50s households has with one parent working.. so whats the fix.? No parent at home wild kids, what is it going to be like in fifty more years.

[quote] Has Mrs. Patsey Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO commented yet?

Actions speak louder than words. Also, my name is spelled "Patsy."

Everything You Need To Know About Women... comes from comedy

you know this is all the bitches in this thead

'I gave you life and this is what you gave me back? I demand a refund'

ladies, no, you can't have it both ways.. you can't be the bestest, most specialuhist person evah and be as fucked up as you are... choose a lane and stick with it.

All this talk about men "helping" and "babysitting" their OWN kids. If both parents work, then both parents should do all the drudge work, carpooling, etc., as well.

r107 and it's dumb arse broads making that stance. Oh my gawd, he can't do anything right, sister/girl. men are so hopeless. I sent him out for baby formula three days ago and I bet he's still lost in the store. they're just clueless, girlfriend, just clueless. this is why we need a woman president because nothing is more important than sagging meat curtains, like a pastrami on rye, 2024 baby. pastrami on rye 2024. it's all about us, sister/girlfriend.

I hate when despite their own regret about having children, parents pretend it was still the right choice and try to guilt people who are childfree into having children. Accusing people who choose to be single and childless of "being selfish" and deny their "happiness." It's like misery deserves company. A lot of people have children for purely selfish reasons and I wish they would just admit to it.

I regret having kids so, so much...but only because I realized (belatedly) how incredibly selfish having kids is. My kids are in college now and they are all wonderful--caring, compassionate, smart, even-keeled---everything you would want in an adult child. (They take after my husband. ) And now they will have to suffer the indignities and disappointments of life. And then they will die alone. My son and one daughter came out a few years ago, and I know my son struggles with it, though my daughter seems great with it (which lends credence to the sentiment on here that it's more acceptable to be a gay woman rather than man.)

We visited a nursing home years earlier with my daughter's preschool and I could barely keep it together. Because I couldn't care less that one day that will be me. The problem is, one day that will be *them*. I will already be dead and they will be alone.

Yeah, I know, "Mary!" me all you want. But I stand by my thinking that if you truly love your kids, you will wish they had never been born.

I want to give r98's sister a hug.

Wow, r110. Your post floored me.

Your children are fortunate to have you and your spouse as parents.

R110, you have two gay kids? Are you and your husband a gay couple, or are you a female?

Damn R110 what you wrote actually made me cry. MARY!!!! But damn. I don’t want kids. Never have. YOU sound like a really wonderful parent.

[R2] Speak for yourself. I love having kids.

R2 That’s what I was saying in the other thread that being gay liberates you from the “human duty” heterosexuals feel obligated / pressured / programmed to do.

But that idea was apparently insane.

R113, I am a female. And then our middle daughter is very traditionally heterosexual. She's had a boyfriend since high school and will probably soon marry her college boyfriend.

[quote]How wonderful for the children to grow up and realize they were unwanted, essentially.

Trust me, the kids realized way before mom and dad had to say anything.

I have had moments where I regretted having children. I have had moments of regret in a pretty happy 20 year marriage. I have had regrets about a career that took so much money and time to achieve.

But now near fifty, I have the maturity to know that if I had chosen to be childless, single, and in another profession, I would still have moments of regret. Life is full of moments where our dreams didn't turn out the way we hoped.

R117, all three of them can have lots of fun, happy times before they "die alone". The point is to live in the now and enjoy it, so at the end, even if alone, it will have been worth it.

would you call yourself an antinatalist?

R119, everyone will have some regrets, whatever life path you take (except for Donald Trump, apparently). But it's socially acceptable to share your regrets about your job and even your marriage. However, if you hint that you have some regrets about being a parent, then you're labeled a monster.

r120, they *can* have many happy times. But will they? Or will they suffer no matter how I may try to help them in life? I know how childish and cliché it sounds, but they didn't ask to be born.

I probably am an antinatalist. I definitely will not hope for grandchildren, yet I can't blame my children if they decide they want a family.

R28 nails it.

Has anyone started a GoFundMe to euthanize DeFacto/Dejure? I’d gladly contribute. Muriel?

[quote] That’s what I was saying in the other thread that being gay liberates you from the “human duty” heterosexuals feel obligated / pressured / programmed to do.

Yes and I don't think it's a coincidence so many of the great writers, poets, artists, actors, philosophers and academics were gay. I think homosexuality evolved to reduce competition and maintain peace within human tribes. Less heterosexual men fighting each other over females. Homosexual men would be more interested in doing what they want to do and would not have to worry about caring for children due to not pairing with and impregnating women.

R104 I hate seeing women's rights being blamed for inflation and chaotic, unhappy home lives. First off, there's a good portion of women that always worked, that's not new, nor due to wom lib. The 1950s sitcom home life doesn't represent reality. Just because women weren't overwhelmingly hired for as many structured jobs as now, doesn't mean they weren't making money. They were just limited to certain profressions (secretary, nurse, teacher, etc), or doing unconventional work, (babysitting, cleaning homes, etc.)

Even my "stay at home mom" worked. She took up all sorts of stuff work, from cleaning up after animals, to cleaning up after upper class types. As did my grandmothers, and their mothers. They certainly weren't sitting at home, staring at their kids all day. Most people I've discussed this with say the same -- mom might've not been punching in at a job we think of today, but many worked to bring in money. Look up the most patriarchal societies today and you'll see the women are "homemakers", but still working the same as I mentioned. It's just not at an office; it's shit side work.

Secondly, inflation would've come no matter what from poor political decisions, run away captilism, and changes to "business" in general (stock market games, investors coming first, etc). Women entering traditional work places didn't cause this. That's just one excuse used to cover up for the fact that we're being conned out of our money for shit that shouldn't cost so much. Stagnant wages, shit benefits, etc., were on their way almost immediately after a prosperous middle class was established. The upper echelons of society couldn't allow decent opportunities to continue; not out of their wallets.

Now that human beings are living longer lives with both poverty and wars declining, more literacy and education, more advanced birth control methods, abortion legalized in Western countries (though it's still a hot issue), and people taking more time to mature and figure their lives out. The appeal of getting married and having kids is slowly waning. When the average person died before 30, most people lived on farms, most of the world was poor, illiterate and at war. There was more of a societal and biological urge to procreate as soon as possible.

For those who do have children and now regret it, how old were you when you had children? I can understand being 24, having kids, and then regretting it. But if you're 35+, then what the hell? It just sounds like navel-gazing to me. You made your decision as an adult.

I was 19. Got pregnant accidentally in what had recently turned into an abusive relationship. I didn't want to continue the pregnancy but my ex found the discarded test and quickly went and told everyone in our religious families. I felt trapped and like I couldn't speak up. I was raised by very toxic shaming narcissist "parents". So we " had" to get married. It was of course, a disaster that ruined all of our lives except of course the ex, who skipped out when the going the tough. I will never not hate everyone who pushed me into that.

People can regret having kids at any age because you don't know what it's like until you actually have them. Obviously older people have a little more of a clue but the age difference between a 24 year old and a 34 year old isn't so vast that you make perfect decisions. I guess when you're childless it's easy the sit back and pick out others decision making flaws.... personally, as long as someone's kids are relatively normal and well behaved then I don't care if they regret having them.

We regret having Chandler

I think the women (and men) who regret having children either didn't want children to begin with or were on the fence about it but did it to fulfill societal expectations. Everyone I know who has kids deeply wanted those children and are happy being parents although they'll admit how exhausting and stressful it can be.

The right's push to ban abortion will result in so much poverty and crime in The US especially with the lack of social safety nets. Because legalization abortion in the 1970s was one of the major reasons crime dropping in the 90s. It takes 20 years (a generation) to see the effects of laws and reforms.

R5 exactly. Kids are not supposed to be an accessory for your persona, either way. It's not about you when you say you regret having a child. How about the child, how is it supposed to feel one day? To hear that your own parents regret you must lead you to the assumption that there is something fundamentally wrong with you. Just awful humans.

How about a kid with a personality disorder, and not one of the entertaining ones? Hmmm? Parenting is not easy. I tend to cut other parents lots of slack. Unless they’ve raped or murdered one of them. That is across the line.

[QUOTE] Whereas the nuns have all been profoundly happy in their vocations and seem to have none of the existential loneliness of their male counterparts.

Because they “married” Jesus. The perfect man. And no muss no fuss.

Rather than it being a default reaction, the idea that parenting is a sacred responsibility and not applicable to all would be tremendously beneficial for society.

Education directed towards parenting could go a long way towards awakening to the responsibilities of creating and raising children.

Rather than classes of obscure algebraic formulas, time spent on direct and practical issues involving parental /family resources and responsibilities would be helpful.

Becoming a parent is truly a life-altering situation. It is not for everyone. Unfortunately some realize this fact too late.

And for many, just as parenting can be the greatest joy, it can also be the deepest regret.

Studies have shown that 99% of women do not regret an abortion years after the fact. As R133 noted, reverberations from the devolvement of women’s rights in the US will be felt for years to come....

R135 Yes. Parents can do everything right. But it doesn't guarantee the child will be perfect. Apart from bad genetics there's also the neighborhood and peers. Once a child grows into a teen, it does become harder to shield or reprimand them. A lot of parents feel regret because of the fact they couldn't give their child a perfect life and their child still didn't end up a model citizen. It's the same with adoption too. Adopted kids can have issues and it is not always a happy end. Having kids or adopting is like a lottery.

R34 and R35, what a chauvinist thing to say. Are you a male? If so, by your logic, someone could say that your penis is genetically programmed to seek out a vagina. Can you truly be happy if you're not doing that? Are you sure you're happy, or are you deluding yourself? You could say we're genetically programmed to hunt and gather. Do you own a rifle? Do you feel bad that you don't kill your own meat?

WTF

I read Freakonomics too r133..

R137 way back in the dark ages when I went to high school there was a class geared to that called "Family Living" . That would have been mid 70s . All of my girlfriends who took it said they wouldnt have a baby ever ! It really highlighted the ups and downs of being a parent. They even taught about birth control . Can you imagine a class like that these days ??? Then again,we also had an Americanism versus Communism class. My how different schools are now.

While I don’t know any parents who talk openly about regret, I know countless parents who obviously do not like anything to do with parenting. They jump at every opportunity to pass their kids off to the nanny, put their own social life well ahead of their children, and are creating terribly behaved kids because they can’t be bothered to discipline them. It’s the socially acceptable way to hate having kids without actually saying it.

[quote] The bizarre and not expected result of womens lib is women in workforce no parents at home , now it takes two parents working to afford what 50s households has with one parent working.. so whats the fix.? No parent at home wild kids, what is it going to be like in fifty more years.

R104 That's what my parents said in the 1950's when I was born.

Women always worked. The whole single-income household was always a white upper middle-class thing. Not nearly as common as TV made it seem. The best way to raise a family would be in a multigenerational home with older relatives because it would take away the burden and stress from the two parents. That's how humankind did it until recently. It's still common in most of the developing world and in Europe appears to be making a comeback.

[quote] now it takes two parents working to afford what 50s households has with one parent working.

My mom said it was housing prices back then. She said that you (a couple) could buy / afford 2 houses. She said I feel sorry for you guys (re: the price of housing) not being able to buy a house. Yes, my mom was a housewife for most of her marriage to my dad.

R48 hence the lack of sex men bitch about. A lot of women are exhausted and seething with resentment towards their overgrown toddler husbands.

My dad just passed away. His wife, my mother, won't let me see his will. She said she raised HIS kids and so he would want ALL his money to go to her. Yep. Don't even care. I hope she chokes on it. (And oh, while my dad was dying, my brother was stealing money out of our dad's bank account.) I regret having her as a "mother."

[quote] My dad just passed away. His wife, my mother, won't let me see his will. She said she raised HIS kids and so he would want ALL his money to go to her.

If that's his wife and your mother, that's a normal will distribution, anyway. I think that is what most laws of intestacy would do, also.

I would speak to an attorney honestly. R150

If it's an actual "will," vs. a trust, then it will become public record, anyway. There will be a case in probate court called "In re: Estate of _____." You can purchase a copy of the will from the courts.

thank you everyone. but honestly? I really don't care. She's been abusive to me my entire life. No money is worth being around her. but thank you for your help.

My mother got all of my fathers property after he died. Seems normal to me.

R150, I'm sorry you've had to deal with that throughout your life. Was your brother the "golden child"? I hope that your father was kinder than your mother.

I was born to save their marriage. But, when my father came to pick my mother up at the hospital he said, "Well, I thought this was going to help. But, I guess it's not..."

My dad was the sweetest kindest human being I have ever known. He adored me. I miss him every day. But my mother treated him like shit too. And yes, my fuck up of a brother gets praised for just going to work every day. If he were any closer attached to my mom's tit? The would be conjoined twins. So in honor of my late dad? I'm now doing what he could never do...I"m walking away from her toxic ass. It's gonna be fine. Scapegoat child for the win!

My mother should never have had children. She basically lost interest in us around age 11. I would have been happy to go to boarding school.

Occasionally daily mail will run an first person article by a woman who regrets having children. It always makes me chuckle because the article will be full of assurances that she would never tell her children how much she regrets them....accompanied by a photo and the authors full name. I suppose it's outrage bait for the commenters.

Absolutely, R160! Those are hilarious. She will be surrounded by 4-6 purposely glum looking children like they never knew or could find out about this article online.

[quote] But if you're 35+, then what the hell?

35-40 is when the rubber hits the road for women who held out on having kids. Some couples / single women (the brave ones) start openly saying they’re not going to do it. A much bigger group of couples gets pregnant and pretends they never had a minute’s doubt and exhaustedly acts like everything is perfect. A bunch of the single women go crazy and freeze eggs or go on dates every night as the clock counts down.

A lot of what I hear suggests to me that people at this age see kids as a necessary way to get to life as an adult, like “well, if we have a kid I’ll be forced to grow up.” I’ve had female friends tell me they wish they’d get pregnant accidentally because it would transform their lives, as if they couldn’t do that any time, without bringing a baby into the world.

It’s a weird age.

I get it, but only now you realize life is cruel, you die alone, etc? (Re: the poster who regrets having children due to all the suffering they will experience.)

[quote] A lot of what I hear suggests to me that people at this age see kids as a necessary way to get to life as an adult

It's not about that. Plenty of parents never grow up and take responsibility. I know a woman who is in her late 30's who dumped her two kids under three, on her parents while she started a career as a party planner. Her husband plays video games all day. Women just don't want to feel left out and being childless when everyone else has kids, means you don't fit into their lives. Unless they want to dump their brats on you. Straight men get more time, but after a certain age, they are regarded as freaks too, if they don't have kids. Usually around 50.

R80...There's no guarantee that the adult children will be there to take care of you when you're old and sick. There's many a heartbreak there.

A few people in here doing that thing where all troubled children and the personality disordered thieves and/or drug addicts etc. are all pure bad luck for those poor parents. I'm not going to deny that, on rare occasions, some people come out of the womb bad but most of the time a fucked up kid comes from a fucked up parent(s).

[quote] Children are not useful until they are adults.

Bullshit. Those tiny fingers weave the best carpets.

Sometimes I've been to crying for unborn children that might have made me complete, but I took the sweet life and never knew I'd be bitter from the sweet. But I was too busy moving like Harlow in Monte Carlo, not to mention moving like Jell-O in Montebello.

R168 I hope those trips to the isle of Greece were worth it you selfish tart.

R166 Yes, but never underestimate the power of influences outside the home. People can wind up screwy and damaged from things like peer abuse or even certain social environments.

[quote]To hear that your own parents regret you must lead you to the assumption that there is something fundamentally wrong with you.

I assumed there was something fundamentally wrong with my parents for saying that, not with me, and I have yet to be proven wrong.