Tasteful friends, what do we think of this NY apartment, owned by the same person for 60 years?

Wow. I wonder if this happens in other cities ZOMG

Just imagine all the rent boys and rough trade that Mr. Alpern has tied up and shoved dildos up their asses and down their throats in that apartment over the last 60 years!

He's an 83 year old male. From an actuarial point of view, he's toast.

Who's gonna be the lucky one to inherit this place?

Fuck you Op linking to paywall articles.

More info on Penn South apartments

Not the OP, but it wasn't paywalled for me, r4.

Andrew Alpern's books were among my favorites as a young gayling interested in NYC architecture.

I'm not quite as ancient as Andrew Alpern, but I remember during the 1970s being warned not to walk past Penn South after dark, so as to avoid being mugged by the Puerto Rican teenagers who lived there. I think it was close to the gay men's drip clinic many of us went to in pre-AIDS times, before Chelsea was a neighborhood where many gays lived. Does this perception line up with what other eldergays remember?

It wasn't paywalled for me, either. Perhaps you've looked at too many articles on nymag.com lately.

He's done a fabulous job with it. He and I are kindred spirits. I live in the apartment I bought in 1976.

The only thing of concern I see are those books over the stove. If he actually cooks on that stove those books must be greasy as hell.

Gorgeous.

An awful building but he still out classes most of the multi million dollar apartments you see.

Thank Miss OP. That was fabo story. Can’t imagine living in the same place for that long but worked for him.

I'm glad the article left the photo of Mr. Alpern until the very end. He looks exactly like I thought he would, with his beard and in his tweed suit.

Love it. To a life well lived.

Great story and thank you for posting OP.

Screw R4 for assuming that we should limit ourselves to garbage free media only. Let the ideas and information flow. Cheap ass Penny pinching queens be damned.

R7 here, and if people are interested, Andrew Alpern wrote a wonderful book on the great apartment houses of New York. He certainly knew his way around a floor plan.

I think he might be a homosexual.

Paywalled for me.

OK, I'm using a different browser and can get through.

Rooms have psychic energies. If you stay in one room for 60 years your psychic energies are definitely imprinted into the room. That’s why people would see old ladies sitting in rocking chairs. They’re not ghosts. They’re just psychic imprints.

I like it except for the skeleton chair. I also dislike diagonal furniture placements. But he seems like a cool guy and glad that his place is not overstuffed, seeing as he lived there for so long.

Did he ever marry or have kids?

Penn South is a highly sought after "affordable" Mitchell Lama type housing.

Any Puerto Rican or whatever suspect element that people were warned about likely came from the public housing projects on 9th or 10th avenues.

That being said, yes 8th Avenue from 23rd to 34th has always been sort of sketchy, and still is. But value of Penn South has increased tremendously as Chelsea and Far West Side have gentrified beyond what anyone could ever imagine. Anyone who remembers 8th, 9th, 10th avenues, Meatpacking district, piers, etc.. from back in day compared to now will attest to this. The Highline is just one block from Penn South with all the new luxury housing construction and other wealth that is invaded area.

That right there is contentment. He figured out how to live in a way he enjoys, regardless of what might please others.

Yes r21 and he actually led quite a virile heterosexual life without any homosexuality in it.

People are fighting to get into Penn South, often on waiting lists for years or decades.

Downside to the affordable condo/Mitchell Lama bit is owners are limited at selling prices. That is you cannot sell a unit for six, seven, four, or two million.

In response to a wave pf Mitchell Lama projects leaving that system and going market rate (which was their right after certain period of time passed), NYC began offering all sorts of incentives to keep remaining buildings in program. Much of this involved long term property tax breaks (ok, incentives) stretching for decades.

More....

Yet more...

Tax abatements..

" Can’t imagine living in the same place for that long but worked for him."

Fairly common story in NYC actually, people bought cheaply or landed a rent regulated apartment that remains below market, and just never moved. Tons of such persons will only leave feet first out front door in a box so to speak.

Part of it is that cheap apartment becomes sort of like golden handcuffs. City has changed and gentrified over years so even if people sold (condo or co-op) they likely won't get enough money to buy something similar in NYC. So unless they are intending to take their money and move out of state...

For those in rent regulated units choice is even more stark. Unless they manage to find another well below market rent stabilized apartment (good luck with that), they are pretty much stuck aging in place as it were.

There is good and bad to this; NYC, especially Manhattan has changed dramatically since 1970's. UWS, Chelsea, West Village, Greenwich Village, East Village, etc... anything below Harlem has gentrified beyond what anyone could have imagined back in 1970's or even 1980's. People may now be in their 60's to 90's, but they still can enjoy much of what this new upscaled city has to offer.

Another...

Still more...

Last one....

If I had a llama, I would certainly never name him Mitchell.

[quote] "The only thing of concern I see are those books over the stove. If he actually cooks on that stove those books must be greasy as hell."

I thought the same thing, R9.

My particular favorite part of the apartment is the enclosure of the patio to create a sunroom/four seasons room/space.

I have LOTS of books and I'll make sure you see each one!

Dirt!

Like all aging apartment complexes in NYC, Penn South needs work, in fact quite a lot needs doing. Where to get the funds became a bitter and sometimes nasty battle.

NYC stepped in with an offer of low cost financing, but Penn South would have to delay by nearly ten years when it could leave Mitchell-Lama program. That meant those shareholders couldn't sell their units at market value. Ruppert Towers on UES/Yorkville was one of the first to leave Mitchell-Lama, and many reaped huge windfall profits by selling their once "affordable" housing units.

"One of the original buyers, Andrew Alpern, who bought a 17th-floor apartment for $3,000, said he would vote against the deal. Mr. Alpern, a lawyer and architectural historian, compensated for the uninspiring exterior by furnishing the interior with touches like custom-built floor-to-ceiling shelves, Wassily chairs and an Eames lounger.

Mr. Alpern believes that buy-in prices should be increased, or else the buildings could find themselves saddled with unsupportable debt.

“Going private is a nonstarter; no way are we going private,” he said. “The issue is staying affordable for the shareholders who are here now, and remaining affordable into the foreseeable future for those shareholders who are here.”

Penn South does have a new building going up on 8th near 27th street.

Sadly it likely means good-bye to Mid-Town tennis club.

Paywalled for me too

[quote]I think he might be a homosexual

What was your first clue?

He’s lived there for 60 years and hasn’t yet realized that that ugly Spanish portrait on the left hand side of the photo is hung WAY too low?!?

The top of the picture frame should be parallel with the top of the window.

Look at his ginormous books table, stacked just Mary!

Anyone care to lay odds on how much of what is in this apartment ends up being rubbished after Andrew Alpern dies, and that apartment is cleared out.

Books are awfully decorative, don't you think?

One can always tell when an older or elderly person has passed on who lived in a Manhattan apartment. Boxes upon boxes of books, old magazines and so forth are piled on curb on recycling day. That or they are down in building's recycling area awaiting packing and throwing out.

Places like Housing Works take them if someone is willing to crate them up and drop off. Nine times out of ten thrift and charity shops sooner or later end up doing same; packing the lot up and putting them out for rubbish. No one reads any more I suppose, and when they do it's Kindle or some other modern technology.

Often the homeless and some others will go through said crates of books on curb to take what they find. This is where a good source of inventory you find from those street vendors on UWS and elsewhere comes from.

Why oh why did he enclose the balcony? Outdoor space is so valuable; I'd pay a premium to have some in an apartment.

Other than that -- nice place, but too many books (over the stovetop????). And I say that as a lover of books myself.

Love it

The original apartment is a little cluttered, a little claustrophobic.

It must be nice to stay in one apartment you really like forever. But he was probably single all those years.

I like seeing that he had two rotary dial phones in the bedroom in the ‘60s, one on the nightstand and one on the desk.

He enclosed his balcony.

I hate him.

R49

No cordless telephones my dear. Best one could manage was a long cord from wall jack to phone, and or handset to base.

Unless you wanted to get out of bed to answer telephone, or talk while in same you had one on nightstand in master bedroom at least.

Ma Bell didn't give away anything back then either; you paid to have lines/jacks installed. If you were lucky an apartment or home already had other lines installed, otherwise if you wanted another line or lines, you had to pony up.

I’m surprised he was allowed to enclose his balcony

tried a different browser in ingognito/private mode and it worked, so cut OP some slack

[quote]He’s lived there for 60 years and hasn’t yet realized that that ugly Spanish portrait on the left hand side of the photo is hung WAY too low?!?

Either you know nothing about hanging pictures or you are joking.

Pictures should be hung at eye level. The 57 inch rule. That picture is hung correctly.

[quote] No one reads any more I suppose, and when they do it's Kindle or some other modern technology.

People still read, but it's all digital. There's only so much space to store books, esp. in small apartments.

The coffee table is everything.

Books are moldy and smell, we have it all online now. Books should be burned.

I'm assuming Tim Burton helped decorate it. The skeleton chair, no. I'm not sure who started the suitcase trend but personally I don't care for it. I find this apartment quite boring except for all the lovely books.

[quote] Pictures should be hung at eye level.

EXACTLY! If you're covering a wall with lots of pictures you make sure that the center of the assemblage is at eye level, unless you're covering the wall from floor to ceiling.

Chelsea was always 14th-30th Hudson River to Sixth Avenue. Now Real Estate types have it split. West Chelsea - Hudson to Ninth, East Chelsea - Ninth to Sixth, Next they'll create an acronym, like SoHo for South of Houston and Nolita (North of Little Italy).

If you had told me when I moved into my NYC apartment 33 years ago that I would still be here, I would have been depressed. Yes, they are golden handcuffs and may prevent you from moving to try living elsewhere. But it’s also allowed me to persevere in a hypergentrifying city and watch how it has changed. Perhaps worse in its fun, nightclubs and creative scene - but then I’m older too and value different things. In a way the city has become more hospitable, safe and clean which is more attractive the older you get.

I often think I wanted to live in CA - probably the only other place I’ve had a desire to live. But then visiting 1-2 times a year is enough for me nowadays. Most people I know who left NYC for SF or LA moved back - or to Palm Springs. I’m ambivalent about having stayed in NYC so long. Grateful for it but will always wonder “what if” I had moved to CA. Now that I’m aging, being near family on the East Coast and the non-driving convenience culture of NYC is a must-have. I travel often to compensate.

Imagine how much more space he'd have if he invested in a Kindle. I love to read, but that many old books just seem like an invitation to mold and vermin.

Die in a great fire, R62 and R57. Triggered by an overcharging lithium battery.

What's with all this bookphobia?

Are you people that delicate?

Die in a GREAS fire, [R62] and [R57]. Triggered by an overcharging lithium battery.

Die in a GREASE fire, [R62] and [R57]. Triggered by an overcharging lithium battery.

Apparently his books grew so much he is using 4 of the biggest ones as a coffee table.

[quote]Imagine how much more space he'd have if he invested in a Kindle. I love to read, but that many old books just seem like an invitation to mold and vermin.

Dear Lord. What a low-brow knuckle dragging philistine.

You are all a bunch of technophobic cunts.

In the spirit of his collections:

I am not an anti-tech luddite by history and experience (I used to write code, was an early-adopter of online tech, had one of the first smartphones), but I have observed in myself and others a critical reduction in reading ability since digital text has replaced real space print. Attention span has vaporized, ability to deeply understand text, limiting reading to the "interest bubble" - the eyes, neurons, electronic currents in the body that mirror consciousness... are limited in the digital world.

I but more books now than I did a decade ago. The reduced time I spend on the screens in my hand, on my lap, on the wall... correlates to my greater happiness.

Great apartment that never was meant to be seen in pictures.... a man has lived well there.

If any of you have Firefox and are paywalled the reader view is working on this article

I have hundreds of physical books, but I love the convenience of eBooks. Not everything needs to be read on paper, especially mass-market fiction. Also, if you have so many books you are enclosing balconies and storing books over the stove, you need to think about winnowing down the collection.

Way too many books. You don't need to keep every book you ever read. Hold on to the ones that you either intend on reading again, or that have monetary or sentimental value. I have a hand-me-down oversized china hutch from my mother which I use to store my books, but once it was filled and I started annexing other shelves and cabinets, I knew it was time to start giving away many of them.

I’m amazed how long term NYC apartment dwellers hoard. The key to me for living in a 1BR for years has been regularly purging stuff. Going online for daily newspapers and books has been critical too. Technology has made living small so much more realistic.

Here's some pictures...

For many people, books they've read and loved are a comfort, like familiar friends. If they like keeping their entire collection, who cares?

I've instituted a one-in-one-out policy with physical books. I still move every so often, and even packing and moving 300 hardcover books is a chore. I only keep the ones I really love that are also nice to look at. Everything else is donated.

R76 For the most part, this is the case for me. Having "War and Peace", and "Infinite Jest", and "Leaves of Grass", and "Tractatus" looking at me from their places on the shelves centers me, roots me, reminds me of what journey I have been on.

And then there is a ton of crap that no one will ever care about... as I age I am tryng to clear things out so my much younger spouse won't be burdened with it.

[quote]If any of you have Firefox and are paywalled the reader view is working on this article

The eldergays have no idea what this means and they are hissing over it.

"Okay, now I can get rid of Mother’s castoff".

Should have kept them I had taste.

You can't expect a man his age to go digital. My parents, aunts and uncles are all in their late 60s -mid 70s and even though they all have tablets and PCs, they just cannot read books, magazines or newspapers digitally. My 72 year-old uncle recently slipped and fell on some ice in his driveway and fucked up his arm because he was going to fetch the newspaper from the box at the end of his driveway. My cousins have loaded up his iPad with all of his magazines and newspapers but he just refuses to read them that way, he has to have a print copy of everything.

That generation will be using print media until they die, there is no talking to them about switching to digital. They often get all pissy about it.

Books provide comfort and warmth.

Books insulate against sounds from your neighbors .

Books serve as a personal diary (I know of most of them where and when I acquired them - and I own close to 5000).

As somebody said above, books are like old friends.

Physical books cannot be turned off with a switch by somebody or altered by the Ministry of Truth.

Now the downside:

They are a pain to move.

They might kill you if you live in a shaking state.

They lose 95% of their value the moment you buy them.

They will be thrown away or sold in bulk after you die. Like your brain, the system you built and the memories stored there in will disintegrate.

It's rather dingy and uninspiring. He would have been better off living at Imperial House.

if you must keep books, make sure the bookcase are firmly secured

R61: I spent several months settling an estate in California, albeit in LA. Whatever residual thoughts I had about living there were squashed. I became impressed at the sheer number of very depressed people I used to see out and about. The traffic easily traps you in whatever area where you live (I was in the Pasadena area). It also struck me as a place where many human services, public and private were pretty dysfunctional---I was living in Atlanta at the time, which was dysfunction and incompetence personified. One other thing that became apparent was that the place was a desert and once you get past the water sucking plants the whole place is brown and drab.

I could live in LA if I didn't have to work for a living because the traffic is just too much if you have a set daily work schedule, meetings to go to etc. The traffic would drive me insane.

My mother is 75 and adores her Kindle. You can't always generalize based on age.

I like it better in 1969. The trunks and the piled books seem about 40 years out of date.

Again, I don't think the question is digital skills acquired by the "aged".... that's a trope that was true 20 years ago, no longer true. Most of those older and baffled technophobes are either dead or in assisted livng.

The choice is how one is going to live, and what is happening to our brains and souls as we surrender to AI, devices, and flattened world that monetizes our very thoughts and emotions.

Agree R85. I used to love LA as I stayed with friends in Brentwood canyons. It felt so lovely isolated. Yet realized getting anywhere was a nightmare. You are trapped in your house. And living in WeHo or walkable/convenient LA defeats the purpose of living in CA (nature). I also have been there a few times in the past few years during fires. Being surrounded by brown dry land and brownish gray skies and choking air got to be depressing and I pinged for NYC again.

I realize I like the lush green and quiet of northern CA - but it is so remote and car dependent, it’s unrealistic to live there. Perfect to visit for the month of August though - escape the heat of the East Coast, enjoy the fog rolling in over green hills and the crashing water on the cliffs.

[quote]Again, I don't think the question is digital skills acquired by the "aged".... that's a trope that was true 20 years ago, no longer true. Most of those older and baffled technophobes are either dead or in assisted livng.

Please. There are plenty of older people who are still technophobic.

IMO, way too many books.

He has managed to keep everything on shelves, though. I.e., he does have a place for his book collections.

He also doesn't have any other apparent collection other than his books, which is good.

Re: enclosing the balcony.

I think it was a good move. I lived in an apartment (nice city with good weather) and never used my balcony. In a small apartment, just that little bit more of interior space can make a huge difference.

He doesn’t own that many books. 2000 maybe?

Balconies often are noisy, esp. if it's a canyon like area because of nearby buildings. They often can be smelly places depending on what your downstairs neighbors do.

[quote]Pictures should be hung at eye level. The 57 inch rule. That picture is hung correctly.

R54 - Then he and his guests must be under 5 feet tall.

Yeah, the problem with balconies is that they're used for smoking cigarettes in households where it's not allowed indoors. Assholes will throw the butts off the balcony instead of in an ashtray.

Most people hang their paintings / pictures way too high.

IMO, they should be hung at a level low enough to see everything and enjoy the painting. I'm kind of short, so my paintings are hung low so that I can see them.

This man has been looking at that damn picture for 60+ years, apparently he likes it EXACTLY where it's at

[quote] You don't need to keep every book you ever read. Hold on to the ones that you either intend on reading again, or that have monetary or sentimental value.

Screw this.

I like that he is hanging pictures in front of his books. I do that too, it looks great and you can rotate them.

I can't stand clutter, I hate seeing piles and piles of books.

I couldn't stand all those books either, but he's 83 so what do you expect. I hope my home is as well preserved if I live into my 80s

[quote] I like that he is hanging pictures in front of his books.

That is an interesting design, but I doubt he rotates the pictures. IMO, it proves that some of his books are superfluous (the books in back of the pictures).

Am I the only one who caught this? “... sponsored by the International Ladies’ Garment Workers Union...”.

That’s what “a coat, dress or blouse” bankrolled!

A book that has not been read in 10 years is not ‘superfluous’.

R98 many people prefer low hangers.

I love it! He's fab and so are his digs. Unless he's dead, I didn't read that far. If that's the case, I guess his new digs might have been dug.

R57 they're like sand, they get everywhere.

Note how every celebrity and journalist zoom segment on TV has books in the background.

Books are chic.

[quote] Gorgeous. An awful building but he still out classes most of the multi million dollar apartments you see

What’s “gorgeous” about it? The worn out sofa? The vertical blinds? The small gray rug? Too many collections scattered all over? The weird and hideous skeleton chair? The sad white walls? The cave like bedroom?

In the original "clubhouse" for WWHL, there was a set of World Book encyclopedias on the shelf behind Andy.

[quote] In the original "clubhouse" for WWHL, there was a set of World Book encyclopedias on the shelf behind Andy.

And?

So many book haters here. I bet most of them haven’t finished a full book on their iIPads in years. Because they have the at attention span of a sparrow.

In addition to a shit ton of books, he has many hundreds of music CDs. I would hate to live under him, especially since that enclosed balcony has a huge amount of weight placed on it.

Storing books over the stove is strictly amateur; I store books inside mine.

r114 here in the modern world, people read books on their tablets and everything is fine. We don't have books all over the place, cluttering things up.

Indie book stores are thriving. People read books and they're not all old.

LMAO at all the dimwits here who think "reading on my tablet" or Kindle is anything like the equivalent of actually reading and keeping a collection of books. Bless your hearts, and enjoy your John Grisham or whatever.

r119 you are woefully out of touch.

You can't argue with the eldergays. They stopped paying attention to the world when Dynasty went off the air and have no understanding of modern life.

Yeah, I'm glad I'm out of touch with people who exclusively read digital books to the point they scoff at people who own a lot of actual books (not to mention scoff at people older than 35). I'm a professional scholar; I use all kinds of devices and digital resources in my work every day, and I know their limitations all too well. But you stick with your bestsellers.

@r119, It's the content of the books that's important, not the collection. As much as I like books on shelves keeping your library on a disk or cloud is much more organized and a lot less clutter

r122 we're just saying that having stacks and stacks of books is cluttered, messy, outdated and it smells. Especially when you're living in a NYC apartment with limited space. Get rid of books you won't read again. You can find anything you want digitally, keeping everything on a Kindle is nice and tidy.

@r121, We're also richer and better educated, so sit down over there, we'll call you if we need you

Interesting how any mention of modern tech is dismissed as not being used by intelligent people. "Well, I'M an intelligent person and intelligent people read actual books, you people with your newfangled tablets only read shit!" We see this over and over again with the eldergays. "I still pay in cash, because only ignorant slobs trust those newfangled debit cards and phones to keep track of their purchases!" Etc. etc. etc.

The Dl elders live in some bizarre bubble where they are totally cut off from the regular, day-to-day world and apparently don't know anyone younger than them.

[quote]We're also richer and better educated, so sit down over there, we'll call you if we need you

On your landline?

You do know that textbooks no longer exist? It's all digital now.

"On your landline? "

I probably have better wifi/5g then you too

R123, do you honestly think that all desirable books are available in digital form? That digital books are invariably equivalent in content and accessibility to the hardcopy counterparts? Use a little imagination. And don't think your misapprehension is generational; there have always been people who read as little and as limitedly as you, and on the other hand there are young people now (like my students) who collect book and use them along with digital resources, the same as I do. No, not all textbooks are digital.

As for "stacks of smelly, unsightly books"—smh. Weird that a "tasteful friends" thread has drawn so many rubes.

It's all pretty standard now r129

Nothing is nicer than walking into an apartment full of books and pulling the most embarrassing one out of the shelf right away.

[quote]That digital books are invariably equivalent in content and accessibility to the hardcopy counterparts?

Pretty much

[quote]And don't think your misapprehension is generational; there have always been people who read as little and as limitedly as you

Again, here with go with an eldergay favorite: "I hate all the new technology so therefore people who use it are idiots and I'm so much smarter for not adapting." We've heard this endless times, gramps.

[quote] No, not all textbooks are digital.

Most are. At least current textbooks. If you want some outdated ones of course you'll have to use a print copy.

Again here WE go.

Print media will be gone with the Boomers.

Boomers are the ones who got modern tech started

Steve Jobs; ‎Steve Wozniak‎, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, all boomers or dead

[quote]As for "stacks of smelly, unsightly books"—smh. Weird that a "tasteful friends" thread has drawn so many rubes.

Tastes change. You must think that French Provincial is the height of chic, as well. Other people find it a fussy relic.

r136 and many Boomers are stubborn and refuse to change. Much to the consternation of everybody else. Like those of us who've had to work with them.

Gen X was also heavily involved in the tech revolution.

@r131, "It's all pretty standard now [R129]"

And landlines are pretty obsolete, what's your point?

And I have never heard of an apartment with “smelly books”. Books smell like their owners. Only second hand book stores smell bad. Usually because many of their books came from smokers.

@r130, Then keep your damn books, but don't act all superior thinking your way is the only way. There are options

@r138, I'm a boomer and I'm the guy promoting digital. The last thing I want is for my house to look like a used book store. Some books are great. Wall to wall books is being a hoarder

Look, if you want to live with piles and piles of books, go ahead. I have a few hundred books I'm fond of and find beautiful. I also have hundreds and hundreds of books on Kindle, and I love them and read them deeply, thanks very much. And BTW, I'm a professional scholar, too. We're not all posting from the 1980s.

Not all Boomers are Luddites r142. But many are.

R132, you assume I don't use digital books and other digital resources. I said I do; I use them every day. I know their limitations compared to paper, and I observe how my students use both technologies—similarly to me. You should just admit you don't know everything.

Keeping books you frequently refer to or like to re-read on occasion is fine, but holding onto 500 books you haven't looked at in years is really hoarder-ish.

[quote]I know their limitations compared to paper,

It's the exact same thing on digital as it is on paper. Throw the musty old books that have been sitting untouched for 100 years in your hovel out.

R141, *I'm* not the one saying "my way is the only way"! I'm responding to the posters here saying that everyone should switch over to digital books.

The smell of a book, especially a new book, is heaven. I admit I had to stop buying books and go to ebooks because I simply ran out of room. If I had more shelf space I'd go back to buying them like mad. I have approximately 1500 books and they give me joy. And no, I have not read them all. Some I inherited, and some are antiques.

[quote] It's the exact same thing on digital as it is on paper. Throw the musty old books that have been sitting untouched for 100 years in your hovel out.

You're clueless.

Sorry r150 please explain how a digital book is different from a print copy.

The "scholar" on here reminds me of my older college professors in the late 90s who didn't even want to hear the word "internet." We were forbidden from using it for anything. The old fucks would go on tirades about how the internet was useless and had no place in a classroom.

They're all probably dead now.

Awww look at this cutie

R151, ice cream and digital ice cream are not the same.

You're making no sense r154. I've read digital copies of books I've also read in print and the content is the same. They're not putting different versions online.

He is gorgeous, R153. Pray that you look and live like him in your 80ies.

You can't compare a digital brook to a print book. I can understand how people get attached to their books and and get a sense of comfort from them. However if your collection becomes overwhelming and it takes over your home, you need to go through your collection and give away the books that you feel you don't need to keep indefinitely. Otherwise you begin to turn into a hoarder.

There's no difference at all between a digital book and its print counterpart, if all you want to do is read the book page by page.

What's the difference between a digital book and the same book in print form?

I see the advantages of digital books, like the ability to look up words or have them translated. But I don’t like the fact that I don’t really own the content. I had several kindle and audible books that simply disappeared or could not be transitioned from one device to the next or from one region to the next. And apartments without books look barren.

[quote] Keeping books you frequently refer to or like to re-read on occasion is fine, but holding onto 500 books you haven't looked at in years is really hoarder-ish.

It's more than 500 books.

A friend of mine (my Mom's goddaughter, who frankly was more like a real daughter to my Mom than my sisters ever were) has lived in the same apartment on East 83rd Street in NYC for at least 40 years. It may be closer to 50 years now. I've never asked her what rent she pays, but I bet she has a fantastic deal, due to rent control.

Oh dear God - this book discussion is painful. Can we move on to other elements of the apartment and story? Like living in one place - in particular in NYC - for 60 years? Now THAT is interesting IMO.

Yeah, let’s talk about his watch chain. This will fire up our eldergays.

I remember reading in the obituary of some actress who died in the 90s who lived in Penn South. I was fairly shocked. It was someone like Geraldine Page (only it wasn't).

I love the square parquet floors.

If I had the opportunity to own an affordable apartment for 60 years in Manhattan I wouldn't move either.

[quote]Yeah, let’s talk about his watch chain. This will fire up our eldergays.

"People who don't wear a watch on a chain are ignorant trash. Of course, you don't need to tell time because you're too busy playing your video games all day."

came to say what R9 noticed early on. The books above the stove give me pause. I like it though. It's tidy and organized for how long he's lived there.

[quote]What’s “gorgeous” about it? The worn out sofa? The vertical blinds? The small gray rug? Too many collections scattered all over? The weird and hideous skeleton chair? The sad white walls? The cave like bedroom?

It looks like a man of genuine culture lived there.

Something money can't buy.

Something you could never understand or appreciate.

I have an acquaintance in NYC who moved from an adorable third-floor walk-up in the Village to Penn South about five years ago. He was afraid he wouldn't be able to handle the stairs as he got older. He got on the waitlist years before he was ready to move, and by the time he got a place, he was the right age for it. He says he misses the charm of his old place, but he feels more secure living in an elevator building at his age.

r170 it looks like thousands of other apartments occupied by elderly book hoarders. Nothing special.

I guess the stove and other appliances that are 50 years old are those of a "cultured" person. 😂

R156 I agree - I think he’s adorable. I saw the photo and my heart melted.

MARY!!!

Credit this to Bernardo Kastrup (originally an AI scientist):

Yes, AI can approximate almost everything human. Approximate. My laptop can simulate a kidney perfectly. It can't pee, however.

Americans are obsessed with Kastrup.

[quote]Dutch, Germans and Swiss are obsessed with Kastrup.

FIFY

[quote]it looks like thousands of other apartments occupied by elderly book hoarders.

No, it does not.

The apartment has been featured in the NYTimes, House&Garden and Curbed. For reasons that go right over your head.

I have lots of oversized art and photography books - the experience of those on digital isn’t the same. For the average novel, it really comes down to whether you prefer holding a book or a tablet.

Photography /art and coffee table books are a different category of books.

I read a couple of Steinbeck books for the first time on Kindle / an eReader. Was the experience less because I wasn't turning paper pages? No, I don't think so.

Magnificent. Though I personally wouldn't close off a balcony had I had one that size in NYC, I do think he did a great job with the enclosure. I liked the 1969 version better though; it's still fashionable to design balconies that way today, particularly the boarded concrete floors.

He's adorable, I love how immaculate his place is and how well he's cared for it. ❤️

r177 it looks like any number of similar apartments. And you might want to try the medicated douche.

[quote]He's adorable, I love how immaculate his place is and how well he's cared for it.

A tiny shoebox apartment like that can be cleaned in no time at all.

I would love an apartment like that. It’s beautiful. And he bought it for $3000? God bless him in his little suit.

you do realize that it's not necessarily a choice between digital books and hoarding mountains of paper books? it's a socialist experiment called public libraries. you can own some books that you love to hold and look at, or that have sentimental value or were especially significant to your development, while "borrowing" for a few weeks books you want to read but don't really have a reason to own.

unless of course, one is unfortunate enough to live in some red state shithole where the knuckle dragging neanderthal rethugs want to ban anything that doesn't fit their qanon conspiracies.

[quote]unless of course, one is unfortunate enough to live in some red state shithole where the knuckle dragging neanderthal rethugs want to ban anything that doesn't fit their qanon conspiracies.

Well, that's where downloading books fits in.

R171

Older persons in five or six floor walk up buildings are a huge issue in NYC. Even just being on third floor can be difficult for an older person if they have mobility issues, and or aren't in best of health.

Sadly many such older persons are in rent regulated units and there just isn't enough low income or affordable housing for seniors. People get on wait lists for NYCHA or other subsided housing and a great many die before they are called.

Again it is the "golden handcuffs" of long term living in a rent regulated unit here in NYC. Greater difference between their current rent and market, less chances of finding something they can afford to move into. So they remain in those walk-up buildings were many eventually will die.

For LGBT seniors this issue is often of great importance. Many (of a certain generation perhaps) have no family and or otherwise are more reliant upon municipal services. Housing such as care/nursing homes aren't always enlightened about equality, this goes for staff well as residents.

NYC recently opened Stonewall House in Brooklyn, an all LGBT residence for seniors, but it's a drop in bucket compared to amount of such places needed.

Oy - not with the books again? Enough.

A realization every NYer has at some point is that balconies are almost useless. They’re a nice idea in theory but rarely used after the thrill quickly wears off. Which is why they largely stopped building them. People would rather have usable interior square footage.

I think it's true in a lot of places. They seem to have been popular in DC from the 50s into the 70s, although a few pre-WWII buildings have them.

R187

You either don't live in NYC, or haven't a clue as to what the fuck you're talking about.

Demand for private outdoor areas (balconies) has soared for years, and covid poured fuel on that fire. Here on UES much new construction features units with terraces or balconies.

"Apartments with private outdoor space will also maintain their advantage. Pandemic-era buyers are willing to pay an even bigger premium for this amenity. "

Since NYC is forcing developers to build residential housing that resembles office buildings (air tight and windows that either don't open or do so very little), outdoor space remains one of few ways to get a bit of fresh air without leaving ones' apartment.

Adjusting for inflation $3k in 1969 is $22,790.35 USD by 2021, still a very good deal. You cannot buy a broom closet in Chelsea or anywhere else in NYC for that kind of money today.

On another note NYS recently changed laws making it now virtually impossible for Mitchell-Lama building to go market rate.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

More...

The book thing? Let me get this straight. The pro-kindle people think books are smelly and untidy and people who like them are dinosaurs. (People who use the term “tidy” are one of my turn offs on grinder, no matter what their race). And pro-book people consider the digitals idiots with no appreciation for the reading experience or culture in general.

I would say it’s the totalitarians that are the dicks here. “Get with the century gramps, throw em out!”and “there have always been people who read as little as possible, like you”.

I had to look to find a hard copy person disparage the kindle crowd with the same gusto that the kindlers went after the traditionalists. That is telling in itself.

But you do you. I am fortunate enough to have enough space that the bulk of my books fit in my office. I understand when space is at a premium, the digital version has its appeal.

But if you grew up reading books, you have a different relationship with them. I know I don’t look at the forwards or other additional writings when I cut through a digital. But with a fine book in my hand, the experience is just more rewarding. I want to read the extras. I want to appreciate how the book itself has certain qualities to it outside of the content.

I’m glad I haven’t lost that.

r193, I am a book person who now reads most books on his kindle. Though I miss the tactile experience of reading a "real" book, the kindle makes reading much easier now that I am an ancientgay. It allows me to enlarge the type. The font in most books is so small, I am no longer able to read them.

I also enjoy not having to hold a book in my hand. I lie on my side in bed or on a sofa with the kindle positioned so I don't have to do anything but touch the screen to turn the page. My hands are in a lot of pain after all these years of being online, so this is a real benefit. (This requires the use of a stand for the kindle, available inexpensively on Amazon.)

I do miss my old ritual, however, of finishing a book, closing its covers, holding it in my hand for a moment, and then placing it on a shelf before moving on to my next book. Here, kindle can't compete.

For anyone considering moving into Penn South.

More from 2014

Downside to Penn South of course is limits on resale price. You or your estate can recoup what was paid originally, but there isn't any sort of huge windfall.

When I see a person with hordes of book, my immediate conclusion is that he or she is not a serious reader. People are notorious for buying books they don’t finish or read at all. How many books can you realistically read? An enormous collection usually means the person is a collector of books or a show-off.

Another thing unlike today one had to lease telephones from the phone company. Ma Bell didn't give you anything, nor could you buy equipment elsewhere. This went on until Congress finally deregulated the industry and put a stop to certain practices. Black telephones were cheapest, and if you wanted something in color it cost more.

Well done. He had a good plan and it worked, well, it appears, for most of a long lifetime.

His apartment looked better a little sparer, without the skeleton chair, that huge ugly dental/massage/something chair and some of the collections of things going on in the occasional corner, but who can fault him for his place becoming more personal and more filled with books and oddities of a long life?

I see a few photos of his place and want to meet him and spend a couple hours looking over his books and things and knowing we would have lots to talk about. I look at most Mid Century Modern photospreads and realize that in a very few photos I've seen all there is to see, everything was done by the book and just so, but there's nothing to talk about, nothing everyone doesn't already know about that period and it's aesthetic as revived. You could be in and out of the place in under 15 minutes, counting some time for polite but pointless chatter with the owners.

[quote]People who use the term “tidy” are one of my turn offs on grinder

Gay men never cease to amaze me at how pissy they can get over the most innocuous things.

Whew gurl, only on DL would there be 100 replies of pointless cuntery about book storage. Bitches, the man is ancient. I wouldn't be surprised if he had scrolls and stone tablets up in there.

[quote]You either don't live in NYC, or haven't a clue as to what the fuck you're talking about.

Note the new buildings on Billionares Row...no balconies.

And the most desirable new high end buildings, those by Robert Stern have a few terraces on setbacks, but no rows of balconies.

Yet A.M. Stern's building on East 83rd does have balconies...

Balconies aren't really a thing with new construction

Gay civil rights activist Bayard Rustin was a Penn South resident!

What would it be like to live in the same apartment for 60 years? Would you get bored with your neighborhood? Would you need to do a lot of traveling?

I lived across 9th Avenue in London Terrace for 24 years. Before that I lived around the corner near 22nd and 8th for 9 years.

R8, I believe you are thinking of the Elliott Houses further down 9th to 10th in the teens. It wasn't until the 90s that we'd walk through that stretch.

As for balconies, the noise and pollution render them virtually useless. I felt lucky when I could open my windows.

I now live in a condo with palm tree views...and several hundred books. Yet here I am on my phone.

Thanks, OP. Great thread.

R205

Who?

I have some reading for you R207, since you undoubtedly subscribe to the NYT :) At least NY condos are fairly safe in this regard…

[quote]since you undoubtedly subscribe to the NYT :)

Only the best people read the NY Times.

R210 Perhaps this is a digression from the NYC apartment/books over screens discussions here.... but the quality of the NYT has slipped... both in the editorial focus and the headline writers. Partially it's the American Public Sphere in these years.... a destroyed, hollowed out, toxic "center" that the time mistakenly gravitates toward. Washington Post is better written and more capable of current analysis... NYT is just hobbled reactionism.

r211 my post was a joke. A parody of the elitist queens and their class obsessions.

R209, thanks. I'm on the other coast, and we've ramped up our inspections, which were already thorough.

R205, I had no idea! Very cool.

[quote]Yet A.M. Stern's building on East 83rd does have balconies...

No, it does not.

It does have a few Juliet Balconies which are not an extension of the living space. They are designed so you can open a floor to ceiling window. You can't furnish them, there is no space.

People in super luxury buildings do not want to look up and see peoples shit.

I have one of his books and I just realized it. It has the original floor plans of the greatest pre-war apartment buildings. Interesting and fun to look at.

Wow, R215, thanks for pointing this out. I never made this connection. I have his book on holdouts in NYC, it is fabulous. I think somebody who wrote 6 books has the right to store hundreds.

I will add to Alpern's defense in having books. It's not simply that he is old and has old ways, but he's an architectural historian. Aarti and architecture books, the books of his profession don't lend themselves so well to Kindle and digitization. They are printed on large formats to maximize small details, and to allow the details if a complex image or floor plan to be seen easily.

Digitization if floor plans and historic drawings and specifications is enormously helpful, but when you want to find a digital image of the floor plan if an somewhat obscure building, good luck finding it online. The floor plans published for architecture books know what details are of importance to art historians, in ways that the floor plan for a government brochure for an historic house museum does not. Historians of art and architecture still have a real need for books on shelves, both for the content they contain and the unavailability of digital formats of a huge of books on these subjects.

Kindle has real gaps and for some there's no tossing out your library and replacing it with digital copies as you might do with fiction.

The standard 3 x 6 balconies on many 1960s/70s buildings have been largely abandoned. Everyone realizes they would rather have the space as interior space. Patios, terraces, etc perhaps. But the little balconies on all new high rises is a thing of the past.

R218 And they're often just damn ugly. They can make buildings look like filing cabinets with the drawers open.

In Manhattan everything out on a balcony gets very dirty very quickly.

At least they're actual books rather than fashion magazines like in Carrie Bradshaw's apartment. But I do admire the fact that he stayed in that same apartment for pretty much his entire life. Moving, packing, and unpacking SUCKS. It's torture. He's only had to go through it once in his entire adult life. I wish I could find that one perfect ultimate home that 'm gonna live in until I die and never need to pack up and move again. It needs to be in a clean and safe city, be walkable to cafes, grocery stores/bodegas/small independent markets, a bunch of takeout and dine-in restaurants, a metro station, train station, and theater and other entertainment venues. Oh and it should have mild cool winters, warm sunny summers, not much humidity, minimal homeless and crime, and low risk of being targeted by terrorists.

[quote]But I do admire the fact that he stayed in that same apartment for pretty much his entire life. Moving, packing, and unpacking SUCKS. It's torture.

I admire him on that count, too, R221, but in the way that I admire a talented sculptor or a pianist - for the beauty of what they do well, not as a goal for myself.

In my whole lifetime, the same years as he has lived in that apartment, I have changed address 23 times. Moving is terrible, even when you hire people to do it for you, but there is nothing quite like moving into a new place, empty but for its possibilities. Yes, I know, that's what the Woodhouses moved into The Branford, but so far so good for me. I love hunting real estate and finding the perfect or could be made perfect place...and then doing it again, something in a new city, something nicer, something more special than before.

I admire him for repositioning that same B. Altman sofa in the same room and, I expect, seeing to its reupholstered a few times over 60 years, but damn, I would grow bored of staying put so long and just shoehorning in new things when I could.

I've known people on similar positions with rent controlled or other apartments they couldn't give up for financial reasons but they usually traveled or had a country place or a small escape in another place. I couldn't sit still on the same small place for 60 years unless I had another place or could travel a lot. I'd rather move house again.

Know tons of gays and straights who landed rent regulated or bought cheap apartments in city ages ago. Renters are paying well below market rate and shareholders just have maintenance to worry about.

In any case many own homes in the country,Florida, Palm Springs, or elsewhere. Some bought (usually again when prices were low), others inherited. Either way because their NYC apartment is so cheap it allows them to afford second homes elsewhere.

Some live in city most of time, others treat those apartments as pied-a-terre sort of thing, spending much of their time in the country or traveling.

Walk around UES, Sutton or Beekman Place, West Village, Greenwich Village, Chelsea, UWS, say on Thursday or Friday late afternoon or early evening and you'll see gay and straight singles, couples, families loading up their car to head out to their country house for weekend.

Where allowed (and or they could get away with it) many would rent out their Manhattan apartment for short stay sort of thing, then later of course AirBnB. Co-op buildings normally put a stop to that sort of thing early on. But rent regulated units unless or until someone informs landlord....

He hit the housing lottery. Can be a blessing or a curse (like most things, right?)

Balconies as part of new construction aren't totally dead.

Another....

Even housing for poor people gets balconies..