THEATRE GOSSIP #452: I'm too new to provide a bitchy subtitle, but I found my cute Chicago guy in the previous thread!

Is Patti LuPone's Small Part Still Working?

Not too shabby for a new guy, OP.

Here's the old Chicago guys:

So is this the new thread?

I'm fine with it

My friend saw Chicago recently and said the actors sped through their dialogue and songs so quickly she figured they were bored and wanted to get home as quickly as possible.

Not as bored as those at the Majestic

for r590 in the last thread, Matt McGrath is still around. He was most recently in The Girl From the North Country which just (closed?/paused?) this past weekend. (The photo is pre-pandemic, but he returned when the show did.)

The lead singer from Sugar Ray, I thought he was an Entertainment Tonight host?

isn't that Mark?

R7 and R8, what the fuck are you talking about?

R7 saw "Matt McGrath" and though it was the lead singer of the group Sugar Ray.

But that's actually Mark McGrath.

R9 The “I Just Want to Fly” guy?

GIRL FROM NORTH COUNTY officially "hopes to reopen."

And I hope to be crowned King of Norway. Not gonna happen.

This will always be what I remember Matt McGrath from. (Geez, 22 years ago!)

R13, Matt was great in that movie. Also in THE IMPOSTORS. But maybe his best work was on stage in THE LEGEND OF GEORGIA McBRIDE.

Yes but is he in The Gilded Age?

I can think of a lot of theater folk who should be in The Gilded Age (but are not).

And a few who are but should not be…

Is Cuddles Cody in it?

Patti LuPone through the years.

Why was Patti always playing a prostitute?

Working

The Cradle Will Rock

Evita

Les Miserables

Can Can

So, now that it’s already renewed, which of the Broadway diva supremes will appear on The Gilded Age S2 Patti, Bernadette, Christine, Betty or Chita?

Since Broadway closed down for Covid, isn’t everything now considered a revival?

[Quote] Why was Patti always playing a prostitute?

She would be more believable as a john.

Sorry r12, that honor has already been bestowed upon Cynthia.

Are Matt and Mark related?

That was a good play R14, and Matt was great in it. I’m surprised it only had a limited run at the Lortel.

Someone asked in the last thread what "proshot" meant. Essentially it is a capture of parts of the show pro(fessionslly) shot for the production. r2 is an example of this, but its quality is severely degraded from being rerecorded.

This one, featuring Marty Moran and Brian D'Arcy James, is of much higher quality.

If he wasn't such a dick, Dean Cain might have made an interesting Emcee during the '98-'04 Cabaret revival.

R20 Don't forget Nancy in "Oliver!" Nancy may be good-hearted, but she's a pro at heart, too (while she lasts).

Shirley MacLaine used to complain about playing prostitutes in many of her films. At least that's something Patti, who complains about nearly everything else, hasn't complained as much about -- at least not so much publicly anyway.

In the last thread, we were trying to find roles for Ian McKellan to be a musical comedy star.

I think he should take over Patti LuPone’s role in Company. Can’t you see him singing, “The ones who follow the rules and keep themselves at the schools too busy to know that their fools.”

R31 As long as he does it in a hat, at a rakish angle.

McKellen could really show his stuff in a free-wheeling patio number.

Broadway’s ‘The Music Man’ Starring Hugh Jackman Won’t Invite Critics Before Opening Night:

He'd be absolutely great as Man in Chair in "The Drowsy Chaperone" and could really make it even more ultra-campy.

R34 "witness Broadway history in the making" according the PR flack.

That already happened when Robert Preston and Barbara Cook opened in the show back in 1957.

Barry Manilow wrote a musical.

Why am I just finding this out?

[quote] Barry Manilow wrote a musical.

Where have you been? Manilow has been trying to get this to Broadway for at least two decades.

Oof, rarely a good sign when something isn't screened/performed in advance for critics. On another note, was there ever any interest of bringing Manilow's Copacabana to Broadway?

Harmony played LA about 8 years ago. It was pretty bad.

R30, she didn't complain about it, she made a joke of it. She said the studios just left her checks on the table.

Any hope for it r40 or is it beyond help?

On "Watch What Happens Live," Patti was asked which two musicals she considered the most overrated. Shockingly, she named two Lloyd Webber musicals.

Is Cynthia Nixon a big smoker?

Asked by Deadline for the reasoning behind the decision, Music Man spokesperson Rick Miramontez said in a statement, “We feel just terrible for offering dozens of theater critics premium seats to a Broadway show. I am sure they will simply loathe having to tell their grandchildren about the time they were forced to witness Broadway history in the making. Most of all, it pains me personally to imagine the burden of having to turn around a review on such a tight time table — has such a feat ever been attempted before? Well, let it be seen as the greatest vote of confidence by this production in our beloved press corps that we think they just might be up to the challenge!”

R44 yes

Cynthia and Sarah Jessica stand in the alley and smoke like chimneys.

I...love...this...

OP Did you say Chicago?

Translations.

Beautiful Thing.

Love ya always, valens.

Thank you.

R37 I thought that was Barry for a minute, after finally getting a nose job. Thought he looked good, then realized it was Chip Zien. Looks good, too.

Kelli & Seth

Valens, do you have the recent doc on Broadway?

R55 The reopening, or the Public Theater one?

[quote] Any hope for it [R40] or is it beyond help?

It’s a somewhat interesting mess, but it could be a better show. The premise is good, but the story was a confused mess.

And, if you’re going to call your show “Harmony”, you’d better make sure your performers can deliver solid harmonies.

Will there be snow cancellations today?

Valens at r49 that's a first. Check out r2. Who wore it better?

[quote]Valens at [R49] that's a first. Check out [R2]. Who wore it better?

I'm r2 and r52, r59. Valens, without a doubt. Valens' copy is FAR better than mine. I bow to the master.

Just for fun, in belated honor of Chita's birthday and upcoming book.

For people here who actually work in the industry, how many of your colleagues do you think are reading here too and maybe posting too? I think it's something none of us ever mentions, it's a dirty little secret among at least some industry people. I love when someone mentions something 'they read' and I know it was [italic] here [/italic] on DL.

Very few, imo, r61. I try to be careful of what I post, 'cause I don't want them to know I post here (not that I post much).

There's a guy who posted on BWW as Pal Joey (he flounced during that Patti Murin debacle and never returned). He's industry-related, and I know he posts here. A few others, mostly wardrobe and ushers. There's C-lister, and there have been a handful of film crew members.

How do you know? I believe several coworkers have tipped their hands but I can’t be sure

A bunch of theater obsessed Twitter people obviously post here.

I think I’d be terminated if they found out

JOH is the guest on Wait Wait

I've worked with all of them, r63. I work in film, television and on Broadway. Pal Joey has a very distinctive style. and the rest have told stories here that tipped their hands, as you say. C-lister has outed himself here several times. Michael Portantiere and Wayman Wong have posted here

r64 is definitely correct. Lots of obsessed wannabe fans.

[quote]I think I’d be terminated if they found out.

I try to be discreet, r65. There's a guy on BWW who posts as Fosse76. I don't know why he hasn't been fired yet. He is often critical of his employers.

When Harmony did a regional run in Atlanta, the backstage joke was a Hollywood-style description of the show: "it's Jersey Boys meets the Holocaust!"

DL fave Tony Yazbeck was in the cast.

I suggest just downloading the music of the Comedian Harmonists, the basis of the musical. They're the real thing.

In regards to Working, how many performances did D'Jamin Bartlett actually croak through before her bony ass was fired?

I’ve always tried to be a bit careful because I used to work in theater but have since left the biz.

I’ve posted a couple of times about working with Elaine Stritch. But you do have to be a bit discreet because some theater people don’t want their stories told, even if it’s all true, and I don’t believe anyone on DL will contribute to my lawsuit Go Fund Me account.

Is The Miller's Son the worst Sondheim song or did I just hate D'Jamin Bartlett?

"harmony" has been done in JaJolla, Atlanta, LA and I think one more (Goodspeed)? And it never gets any better because Manilow and Sussman always think the show is perfect and its the director's fault.

every time I hear I tasty morsel at work I want to share it here, and vice versa

[quote] its the director's fault

Oh, my

Would you prefer Miss Collette, r72?

Oh, put it in a twist Hitler.

The Miller's Son is such an unnecessary and annoying song.

At that point in the show you don't care about the whining of a previously minor character, you want to see how the leads are going to work out their dilemma so you can go home. And the song itself is boring and minor league Sondheim.

It should always be cut,

In case you’ve been worried about her, Amanda Kloots is making it known she’s putting herself out there for love!

She's single and ready to mingle!

Kloots. Rhymes with poots.

R78, it's also ridiculous because Sondheim is always going on how WSS has sophisticated rhymes for these gang members yet he has this uneducated maid singing the most intricate lyrics. Also, no one seemed to understand it. Sondheim says it summed up the show about everyone having sex but a lot of people like myself felt it was about a woman who had to stay in her own social class.

I like The Miller’s Son but I agree it is poorly placed within the show.

One question for musical people: why does the song end on a minor (or dissonant?) note? Is that to indicate unhappiness in her lot in life?

Having heard uneducated rappers spewing rhymes at least as sophisticated as anything Sondheim wrote, his argument about rhymes in WWS seems a bit classist.

Amanda Kloots, meet Imogen Poots....

[quote]I like The Miller’s Son but I agree it is poorly placed within the show. One question for musical people: why does the song end on a minor (or dissonant?) note? Is that to indicate unhappiness in her lot in life?

Some would argue that the placement of the song is perfect because the audience needs a little bit of a break from all the angst and plot involving the main characters. I assume "The Miller's Son" ends that way, rather than with a feeling of resolution, because of course Petra doesn't know how how her life will actually play out and whom she will or won't marry.

R84, I don't get it. Is WWS for WEST SIDE STORY just an error that lots of people make for some reason, or is it supposed to be some kind of joke? If the latter, it's really not funny.

Not sure if this was talked about here, a young female theater intern tells a story about working on a musical project and being seduced by the Hollywood actor playing the lead. Seems people are saying Jake Gyllenhaal is the guy which is puzzling because we have spent many hours on DL speculating about his gayness. Jake has a big movie project coming up.

[quote]I don’t know how to tell this story. He was a movie star. I was an intern. The musical is my favorite work of art. The producer was my mentor. The president of the theater is my friend. It was a real-life fairytale everyone I knew was entertained by. Yet I couldn’t sleep. I lost weight, my appetite, my self-worth. There’s so much I still don’t understand. I feel ashamed I haven’t moved on. That seeing his name on a billboard or hearing his voice in a trailer can momentarily paralyze me. I tell myself what happened wasn’t that bad, that maybe I’m rewriting history. I remind myself how much I started to want it, him. That I spent a year and a half of my life convinced I was in love with him. This isn’t a story that can be wrapped neatly with a bow, which makes me afraid to tell it. There has never been anything harder for me to write about than my experience on this show with this man: maybe you can make better sense of what happened than I can.

Anyone know the people involved?

[quote] Some would argue that the placement of the song is perfect because the audience needs a little bit of a break from all the angst and plot involving the main characters.

Intellectually, I see that point . But having been in the audience of several productions, it’s my experience that people get their emotional release during “Send in the Clowns.” They’re ready for a rousing reprise of “A Weekend in the Country” to put them back together emotionally and send them into the night.

Yes. It’s Gyllenhaal. And Tesori. And Viertel.

R88. I stopped reading after ‘as I munched on undressed lettuce...’.

R91 Is that a euphemism for cunnilingus?

I skimmed it 91 and getting near the end I started reading it again. Way to inane to read the whole thing.

Is Tesori a lez or bi? She seems dykey.

What show was this?

[quote]JOH is the guest on Wait Wait

Who the hell is JOH?

Assuming it's Jeremy O. Harris, who seems like an improbable guest for that program. Sorry I missed it.

Maybe it’s Jenny O’Hara discussing her career as the one episode actress on every 1970s and 80s tv show.

Facts of Life

Family

CHIPS

Barney Miller

She was the go-to girl for single episode work.

[quote]Maybe it’s Jenny O’Hara discussing her career as the one episode actress on every 1970s and 80s tv show.

She finally got a recurring gig as Doug's mother on "King of Queens."

Hey, I was a supporting charater on MY SISTER SAM too!

[quote] Amanda Kloots

Cunt!

r88, there's a long discussion about it here:

The Miller’s Son does not end with a dissonant or minor chord. In the published version, it’s in C minor. However, the song ends with a C major chord.

Hint for the people who are not getting it: it’s a flash of hope. Of course, if you think the show should end with a kickline and a reprise of Weekend in the Country…

Nice pecs, Keenan.

I didn't read Miller's Son as a flash of hope, but rather a statement by the only character who's more or less sanguine about her life and her opportunities and sees no reason not to enjoy "what passes by." No drama.

Back to the Jake G. drama. This rather naive child-woman seems to be blaming her every. single.neurosis on some manipulative flirting. She said "no" to the fuck invitation; he backed off. She offered a blow job; he accepted. Big whoop. And she's a really terrible writer.

Well smell you r103. Not all of us went to Miss Audrey’s School of Music Appreciation.

Wasn't BroadwayWorld's PalJoey actually from the publishing world?

WHET WWS?

Watch What Sucks?

Why did Jill O'Hara mostly disappear?

R103: I have the LIttle Night Music vocal score in front of me as we speak. The song starts and ends in a b minor ninth chord.

Impressive r104.

Why on earth would he have a paid partnership with Fruit of the Looms?

PS I mean why would Fruit of the Loom be interested in AKB?

What does Charlie Stemp cover in his free, private lesson?

Thought that said Fruit of the Crotch at first and it was a parody ad.

[quote]What does Charlie Stemp cover in his free, private lesson?

Advice on how to fend of sexual advances from older gentlemen whilst still getting cast as leads in their musicals.

Andy has ugly feets.

R112, are you sure? The published/vocal selection is in C minor, and it even has chord notations. I can’t believe Sondheim would have altered the harmony, even in a simplified version.

[quote]Wasn't BroadwayWorld's PalJoey actually from the publishing world?

Yes. but he also worked in theater, r107. We did a show together in the 80s directed by Arthur Laurents. JK Simmons and Donna Murphy were in the cast.

That's the guy who ran lines with Dolores Gray, right? Was that a one woman show?

R118: As I told you, I was reading the music right off the pages of the vocal score.

Clearly, the song sheet you attached has been simplified for the parlor pianist, so the home key is different, though the opening chord is still the tonic minor ninth.

As for why the sheet then ends in the major: this is very odd, because Sondheim--whom I knew in a professional way--was EXTREMELY exact about his writing, and he would have superintended the vocal selections and single song sheets without fail.

However, it may be that Sondheim as publisher--as opposed to Sondheim the artist--felt that ending The Miller's Son in the minor would be off-putting to singers planning to use the number in auditions, concerts, etc. After all, the minor-key ending suits A Little Night Music on stage but not necessarily out of the theater context. That wistful, slightly sorrowful minor-key ending might have seemed to him perfect for the show but awkward when the song was sung on its own.

OK, how can we work “The Miller’s Son” into the next thread’s title?

The vocal selection folios of Sondheim scores are strangely inaccurate. Case in point, the bizarre bridge to Broadway Baby in the Follies vocal selection book. I’ve never heard a single person sing the bridge to that song as written there.

The complete vocal scores are pretty accurate though, although a lot of the piano parts are virtually unplayable as written.

How about Joanna Lumley as Mme Armfeldt? She also could’ve been a great desiree.

I think Christine Baranski is destined to be the Mme Armfeldt in the next major Broadway production. She’s never been in a Sondheim musical on Broadway. Sondheim probably left it as a condition with his husband/estate.

R121, you convinced me to get the vocal score version. There is no ninth.

The final chord in the vocal score is just the tonic - B - against the dominant in the vocal line - an F sharp. There is no ninth, or even major or minor third. And if you listen to the cast recordings - it’s just the tonic.

That said, the extremely common “parlor pianist” version with a raised third is actually more provocative than just reiterating the tonic.

You really want us to be impressed

Don’t talk to me about tonic unless there’s vodka

Tonight on Kojak:

Kojak travels to Nevada to extradite a man wanted as a witness. Lily Weed: Judith Lowry. Penny: Judy Kaye. Saxler: Vincent Baggetta. Quinlan: Max Showalter. Hawker: Tom McFadden

[quote]How about Joanna Lumley as Mme Armfeldt? She also could’ve been a great desiree.

Not to mention a great ballerina:

I kind of doubt that Sondheim put casting decisions in his will, for Baranski or anyone. Although I think she might like people to think so.

Yes, the last thing you hear is a unison B--but the chord immediately before it is the same tonic minor ninth I've told you about, still sounding in the ear. The unison B does not create a new harmony and especially does not change the tone from minor to major.

You just hate being told you're wrong and you'll fight like blazes to pretend you've found support where non exists.

You're a waste of time and I'm blocking you so I don't have to hear any more of your pathetic whining. Post whatever you want. Nobody gives a shit.

So....nobody cares that Judy Kaye did a Kojak episode?

I love Joanna Lumley but she's a second banana.

Joanna would have some name value in the West End, wouldn't she? What about Elaine Paige?

Why not go for broke and get Judi Dench??

Latest goal: get engaged to a man with the last name of Miller and insist on "The Miller's Son" playing at our reception.

[quote]Yes, the last thing you hear is a unison B--but the chord immediately before it is the same tonic minor ninth I've told you about, still sounding in the ear. The unison B does not create a new harmony and especially does not change the tone from minor to major.

Gee, this exchange hasn't gotten at all tedious.

I've never seen Finty Williams in anything. Is she forgettable?

Totally, r138. I saw Finty at the Menier Chocolate Factory in a bad play about spies and can't remember what she looked like. I did, however, run into darling Calum Woodhouse of All Creatures Great and Small and The Durrells in the audience and have never forgotten him.

Callum's yummy.

Finty’s claim to fame is burning down her parent’s Georgian house in Hampstead Heath.

I'm watching Jumpin' Jack Flash. I'd forgotten how thin Whoopi was in it.

Big Night of Musicals.

Just finished Julie Andrews' first autobiography -- well written, though she gets a little bitchy referred to Glynis Johns on "Mary Poppins" as a "character actress". Hell, she's the future first Desiree, glamorous leading lady of "A Little Night Music". Julie goes on about socializing with David Tomlinson and others during the film (though not Dick Van Dyke, who she say has a huge family and is busy with his tv show), but does leave off Glynis from her list. Hmm, she does mention both she and Glynis had been child actress and that Glygnis was accomplished as an actress. Glynis is still with us, btw.

R132 She’s in wicked next week or some thing for a week or two filling in

Glynis was a little more than a character actress when she made Mary Poppins. She *did* have an Oscar nod (supporting, but still) and was starting her own (short-lived) American sitcom around that time.

[quote]Yes. but he also worked in theater, [R107]. We did a show together in the 80s directed by Arthur Laurents. JK Simmons and Donna Murphy were in the cast.

"Bird of Paradise," right?

Plus, the year before, Glynis had played the female lead in “Papa’s Delicate Condition,” which was a giant hit, and had a huge hit song, “Call Me Irresponsible,” which Jackie Gleason sang to Glynis. The fact that no one could believe that someone as lovely as Glynis would be married to a fatty like Jackie Gleason was beside the point. Glynis was definitely more than “some character actress” to American audiences in 1964.

Glynis made her first film in 1938 when she was 15, r146.

I read that biography too fast and thought it said "Muskrat-voiced."

Well, that BBC Big Night of Musicals thing provided proof yet again that UK performers are markedly inferior to their US counterparts-no precision, no clarity, backphrasing for shit and no charisma.

Does Julie refer to Eleanor Parker as a character actress?

R151 How many of the Six are in it?

Cyrano De Bergerac - Act One.

Cyrano - Act Two.

[quote]Christine Baranski is destined to be the Mme Armfeldt in the next major Broadway production. She’s never been in a Sondheim musical on Broadway. Sondheim probably left it as a condition with his husband/estate.

Yeah, he stipulated that she never be allowed near one!

R154 Thank you! I was just looking at Mcavoy's videos of this play on insta.

Glynis also had a year or two before probably the showiest and certainly the most fun role to watch in "The Chapman Report" trying to get hunk Ty Hardin to pose naked for her artistic ambitions. She rather stood out among folks like Claire Bloom, Jane Fonda and Shelley Winters.

Glynis is a lot of fun in "The Sundowners" as well, and she was very cute playing a mermaid in "MIranda", sort of an early version of "Splash". I guess being and playing cute was one of her calling cards, but she was always very enjoyable to watch. She was great in "A Little Night Music" playing a more sophisticated role quite beautifully and memorably.

Why are none of you talking about this? Many will having meltdowns over the Revival of Oklahoma part…

R160 If “F” isn’t for Follies many of you will have a stoke.

[quote]Yes. but he also worked in theater, [[R107]]. We did a show together in the 80s directed by Arthur Laurents. JK Simmons and Donna Murphy were in the cast.

[quote]"Bird[s] of Paradise," right?

Yes, that's it, r147, thank you! At the Promanade.

Also in the cast were Mary Beth Peil, Barbara Walsh, and John Cunnigham.

Right - the challenge in the last section of ALNM (having directed it) is that Fredrik's rejecting Desiree and then her singing SITC feels like a conclusion, and what follows it then feels kind of rushed (literally in the case of Anne and Frederika running around) - and then, on top of that, everything stops for a character who has had nothing to do with all the story going on around her to sing a very long song that has nothing to do with any of that story (though yes igi, it's thematically related). From a purely structural and story-telling perspective (i.e., not about whether it's a great song), it would work better to cut that song, have the last section play out after SITC, and then close with the reprise and the dancing.

Amen, R69. There is no way that the Manilow show will be able to create a vocal group for the show as incredible as the real Harmonists were. There is a time-specific charm about the music that the real group sang that Manilow is simply unable to duplicate. and the harmonies that they sang were incredibly complex - they never repeated the same harmonies twice in a song, even if the verse or the chorus of the song repeated. I have no idea why the footage that R68 linked (thanks, R68) shows six members in the group from the production in Atlanta. The real Comedian Harmonists was made up of 5 singers and a pianist. And they weren't really a song and dance group. Why change something as fundamental as that ? I actually have listened to the Harmonists a lot and read about them (there's a great documentary that was done on them in the late 70's for German tv that used to be on youtube that's fantastic!) and yes, I admit that this all makes me a Comedian Harmonists MARY and a bit of a freak. I don't know who should have written this musical, but I don't think that Manilow is it. His music seems to have not progressed since the 70's. The German film "The Harmonists" from 1997 is excellent and everyone should just go and watch that instead. In the film, the actors lip synched to remastered recordings of the original singers because everyone knew that there was no way to top that sound.

I saw a play based on the Harmonists years ago on Broadway. It wasn't very good.

[quote] And they weren't really a song and dance group. Why change something as fundamental as that ?

The Four Seasons in [italic] Jersey Boys [/italic] do a lot more dancing than the group did too. It's just because it's a musical adaptation, not a documentary. (And Sally Bowles wasn't a good singer, and Eva Person didn't dance a lot.)

Damn it! I screwed up my "Posting By" name ----it should have been "His name was Hitler! He was a showgirl!" (And now I have to admit that I didn't even think that line up myself! A bad typist AND a thief- that's me!)

r167 I did a Hitler joke at r75 and I think we should stick to one Hitler joke per thread.

Sad news. It seems that the TalkinBroadway/AllThatChat website has been hacked and has been inaccessible since last night.

Or is it my computer?

Wasn't there originally a song sung by Frid the Footman in ALNM before Sondheim replaced it with The Miller's Son? I guess it was even worse.

Frid’s song (it’s not bad, but it is pretty lugubrious)

It's not your computer, r169. I got warned off twice last night by McAfee ("Go back! Unsafe!").

Frid's Silly People is probably the only Sondheim song I couldn't find a way to appreciate, quite apart from the fact that who cared about Frid in the first place?

I think there’s about 20 people on this thread who all have the credentials to apply for the inevitable position of Sondheim archivist at wherever his papers are to be located.

So obviously Sondheim or Prince strongly felt we needed to hear from a servant before the show ended. But I wonder if they considered giving Petra and/or Frid a little more to do earlier in the show do give us some investment in those characters?

Excellent points, R163. Also, a friend of mine used to say that he loved ALNM but "it takes forever for the show to get started," and I agree with him. I've always thought that if I ever directed a production and could get away with it, I'd cut almost all of the liebeslieder singing at the beginning, after the warm-up, to get the story started earlier. Kind of like the way the cast album opens, which I think is so much better than the opening of the actual show, with those people singing all those songs we're going to hear again later at least once more. What are your feelings on the opening, R163?

I quite like "Miller's Son" but there’s no reason to have both that and "Silly People". They serve almost the exact same purpose; the pragmatic working class viewpoint, only "Miller's Son" does it with more musical and verbal excitement.

Trevor Nunn, I believe (who never met a cut song he didn’t try to reinstate) tried to have both in the London revival, but not the transfer. Or am I thinking of a different revival?

His papers are going to the LOC, and since they were promised some time ago I'm sure they already have someone on staff to deal with all of it (Mark Horowitz got Sondheim to sit for a 6 hour recorded session explaining every note he ever wrote). I think Peter Jones has been performing the in-house archiving function for Sondheim, so maybe he'll be asked to move to Washington?

The Miller's Son was written out of town and Garn Stephens, the original Petra just couldn't sing it, so she was fired. Both Patricia Birch and Len Cariou said she was fantastic in the role, even though she didn't do the song well. Cariou said that if someone had been working with her, she might have been able to do it. He said her replacement sang the song well but was totally wrong for the role.

R165 You’re probably thinking of Band in Berlin. At the time, I worked for the theater in Philadelphia that had the pre-Broadway run. It was directed by Pat Birch of Grease and Grease 2 fame.

R156, pay attention. According to her Baranski and Sondheim were very close friends, they lived near each other and would often get together. I think it’s plausible that he left some sort of directive about her playing Mme Armfeldt in a future Broadway revival of ALNM.

I am paying attention, hon. I think they were friendly socially, but not "very close." Easy for Baranski to claim whatever she likes now that he's dead, but she always tells the same story about taking him out to dinner with Streep, as though it was a novelty.

I suspect the people who were his very close friends are not giving endless interviews about it.

[quote]I think there’s about 20 people on this thread who all have the credentials to apply for the inevitable position of Sondheim archivist at wherever his papers are to be located.

I can't WAIT for the swimsuit competition!

....and in any case, you can't leave directives like that in a will, nor could one be enforced. I think you may not know very much about how the world works.

OMG OMG the New York Public Library is celebrating [italic] Follies [/italic] OMG OMG !!!!!

There was also that film SWING KIDS starring Christian Bale and Robert Sean Leonard that was about oversexed teenagers in Nazi Berlin obsessed with jitterbugging. Was that also made into a musical trying to get to Broadway?

WHET Robert Sean Leonard?

Anyone who ever heard Baranski eviscerate I'M STILL HERE at Encores, would demand she never do another Sondheim show again.

In one of his Fresh Air interviews, Sondheim told Terry Gross how he wrote Send in the Clowns specifically for Glynis Johns. Terry did a three part series on Sondheim when he died and its in the second of the three interviews I think. It’s really interesting to hear how he approached writing for the character and Glynis’ voice.

[quote]I think Peter Jones has been performing the in-house archiving function for Sondheim

Did Sondheim go to him for whips and chains?

.R188, the king of the non sequitur. Next time you can't wait another second for a good opportunity to make a tired whips and chains comment, wait another second for a good opportunity.

R188, so according to R189, you’re losing your timing again this late in your career.

R189 Sorry Jeff, still sensitive I guess? You'll heal eventually.

And it was an Ab Fab reference.

One of the lesser Ab Fab references at that.

Didn't Tammy Grimes nearly replace Glynis right before ALNM opened in New York?

The comment was clunky, no matter the reference. Your question is just stupid. And vicious.

Yes, r193, Glynis was out sick and Prince suspected she might be malingering, so they brought in Grimes and I think had every intention of using her if Glynis continued to be unwell. Miraculously, however, she made a quick recovery and Miss Grimes was no longer needed.

Vicious? You might need to go back to ATC or BWW, this ain't the place for you.

. ..or just repetitious

Robert Sean Leonard played Arthur in Camelot a few years ago,

He also played Atticus Finch in a production of To Kill a Mockingbird in London a few years ago. He no doubt gathered quite a money haul from all those seasons on House so he’s probably traveling and living off that and can be picky about work.

Watched "Being the Ricardos" last night -- interesting subject, as most of us watched "I Love Lucy". But Judy Holliday wasn't a star or even well-known at time Lucy got the part in "The Big Street" in 1942. Rita Hayworth was making Fred Astaire movies around then and wans't about to play a bitch like in "Big Street" either. Aaron Sorkin got some of his Hollywood lore mixed up. Nicole Kidman got better as the film progressed -- though she was better at Lucille than she was at Lucy Ricardo. Bardem was good -- a little hard to understand at time, but his singing wasn't bad at all doing a couple of Desi songs. A real wake-up was how mature former "Pippin" John Rubinstein how become. He and some DL fave/unfave Linda Lavin played two of the writers as their older selves. Nina Arianda was good as VIvian Vance and standout was J.K. Simmons as WIlliam Frawley.

"has become" not "how".

Garn...

R201, I have to say that wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

ALNM already had two non-singers in Johns and Gingold. I guess three would be too much but since it was an unnecessary song, it could have been dropped easily.

r199, agree with all you say about BEING THE RICARDOS but are you aware there were multiple threads on the film right here on DL? Do a search, you'll be pleased.

AllThatChat is back!!!

What say you, DL (everyone except r188 and r189, who are hopefully on a nice time out, or dead)- Has Scott Rudin seen [italic] The Music Man [/italic] yet? Have they snuck him in? Has he disguised himself and mingled with the crowd?

Now that Sondheim is dead, does anyone think producers will keep mounting productions of his shows much? They always lose money.

Nothing is really due for a revival yet, they've all been done so recently haven't they?

I think Garn’s voice is too mature for The Miller’s Son. It comes across as harsh. Plus, she doesn’t have the upper register for the song. No amount of rehearsal would change that she struggles with the top notes. The song needs a young, bright voice.

Too greasy, r209?

Is there a difference between DL theatre threads and All That Chat or the Broadway World message board?

Yes, R211, but I’m way too busy to explain it to you.

[quote]Yes, R193, Glynis was out sick and Prince suspected she might be malingering, so they brought in Grimes and I think had every intention of using her if Glynis continued to be unwell. Miraculously, however, she made a quick recovery and Miss Grimes was no longer needed.

As I recall, Tammy Grimes and Glynis Johns were both up for the role of Desiree originally, but Glynis was ultimately chosen because she had a "vulnerability" that Grimes lacked.

R211 BWW is heavily moderated - no rumors, definitely no bootlegs, many negative comments about industry talent or press are deleted

And here the cuntiness reins free? Do you all post in all of the above?

Yeah I'm an idiot, but I only just read the Deadline article and realised R45's quote is actually real. Yeah, Rudin is obviously pulling the strings there.

R216 you’re not an idiot, it’s so unprofessional for a legitimate statement

check out this one from Scott Rudin production in 2016:

Asked for a comment on the email exchange, the press agent for “The Front Page” issued a statement: “Mr. Rudin said he was very impressed that the demands on Mr. Rooney’s social life are clearly so overwhelming that 17 days’ notice to attend one of three Broadway openings this fall was simply not enough for him to make himself available to see the play. Mr. Rudin remarked that he was envious of Mr. Rooney’s popularity, and wishes that he were as popular.”

"Garn!"

R209, Garn was already in the show when Sondheim wrote the song, similar to Glynis Johns and Clowns. He couldn't tailor a song for her the way he did for so many others and instead wrote a really ridiculously difficult song.

It sure sounds like the audience loved Garn, but yes, she seems like she's racing to keep up with the orchestra. Maybe if the conductor had held up a cupcake on a fishing wire she would have moved a little faster.

It wasn't a matter of Sondheim not being interested or capable of writing a song to suit Garn's talents. In this instance he wrote a song that he felt dramatically served the moment, not the needs of some mostly unknown soubrette who could be easily replaced. He knew his priorities.

But now I'm curious. What are other instances of actors being replaced in Sondheim's shows on their way to Broadway? I think one was Preshy Marker replacing Karen Black as Philia in FORUM. Was that about her singing voice?

Garn that dream.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rudin is puppeteering matters at TMM at this stage of the game. The press manager for the show who (rather snarkily) stated they'd be keeping the critics away before opening night has all the hallmarks of a classic Rudin play.

I also imagine that Rudin is well aware that the show, while not a flop, is hardly the robust, nostalgic hit that 'Dolly' was at this stage of previews. Carlyle has been cutting down numbers, but the show is still a little safe and plodding. Jackman is Jackman, but Foster is the one running away with the show at this point.

I still contend that the scenic design is a complete misstep. It's hard to create a lot of theatrical whimsy in 1900s Iowa (it's no Runyonland) but the clapboard proscenium and muted tones of 'American Gothic' don't help matters. Sure, the allusion is clear and clever, but it doesn't elevate the proceedings at all.

Rudin's a monster but his taste and theatrical instincts are second to none. So hopefully he'll wrangle this into shape. Zaks is obviously more than capable as well -- as it's easy to forget his '92 'Guys and Dolls' was also in dire straits during most of previews.

He had a leading lady (Carolyn Mignini) that was too old for Peter Gallagher and he had a skinny Nicely Nicely (Walter Bobbie) that was so ineffective comedically that they debated putting him in a fat suit. Zaks also had a cast that wasn't amping their performances up to the wonderful outlandishness of the sets and costumes. It all eventually locked in and it remains one of the greatest revivals ever. But it took a ton of last minute work (including cutting down Runyonland from 6 minutes to 90 seconds) to turn the ship around.

Unfortunately, the sets and costumes in 'TMM' aren't going to inspire any grand epiphanies, style wise. The orchestra and new orchestrations sound terrific, but there's a quality to what's happening on stage that doesn't evoke that simpler, golden age of Broadway -- but more a 3rd national bus and truck. That's a huge problem.

R217 The statement (and how similar it is in tone to the one you posted there) is almost like Rudin is daring them to run a story saying he's still involved.

R223 The production design was surely all done under Rudin, so maybe his taste had abandoned him

Regarding Walter Bobbie, r223, see r210.

r142 That was during Whoopi's coke days.

There will be two Sondheim revivals on Broadway next season: Sweeney and Merrily

r221, the kid playing Frank in the original cast of Merrily was replaced during previews. Nobody else comes to mind.

r227, is the Merrily revival the one that was done in London a few seasons ago by Sonia Friedman?

If Rudin is sneaking into the theater, I guess he's staying hidden somewhere in the house as surely the high-minded Hugh and Sutton wouldn't put up with his presence?

Helen Lawson was the original Carlotta in Follies but g”was escorted out of the theater in Boston by security for refusing to perform “that evil piece of shit memory blaster” which was “I’m Still Here.” She also shrieked “Mark my words, you’ll be sorry you got rid of that “oh boy can that boy fuck song”!”

Thank you 154!

There was a rumor (I think here on DL) that it was the Maria (not Sonia) Friedman directed MERRILY that was aiming for Broadway. And I believe she directed her version of it at the Huntington Theatre with an American cast in Boston a few years ago. The entire London Maria Friedman version was on youtube and somebody generously posted it here and I watched it all. IMHO it had a fabulous Act I and a messy Act II. If it's still on youtube check it out!

Bernadette Peters was a last minute addition to Into the Woods. Was Betty Buckley supposed to play the witch?

And of course Dean Jones wanted out of Company.

Sweeney AGAIN? At least tell me it's a full-fledged version and not some kinky-dink, two accordions and a cast of two abomination.

I actually quite liked the Maria Friedman Merrily. There were some odd things about it (it was British after all), but it worked. And I don't know if I ever saw a production of Merrily that ever actually worked before. The story got told, you cared for the central characters, you knew what year it was. It just worked.

A Bart Sher LCT Sweeney would be really welcome. The last two New York revivals had some strengths, but were both literally bloodless unless you count buckets of red paint.

“Thd Miller’s Son” wasn’t added out of town. It was written at the tail end of rehearsals, and rehearsed very quickly, not nearly enough time was given to it. Garn Stephens sang it on the Boston opening night. Had someone really worked with her, she could have become much more confident with it, but that recording shows some pitch issues (and it’s a song with lots of extended notes) that probably could have been helped but not erased. Bartlett was a bitch (by most accounts), a middling actress, but she had a voice with great tone that was perfect for the song. It was one of the most-mentioned numbers in reviews after SITC. If Garn were still doing it, even confidently, that wouldn’t have been the case.

Please god it’s Toni Collette as Mrs. Lovett. She should have been in the film.

I would consider flying to NYC to see Toni play Mrs. Lovett.

Merrily We Roll Along.

Karen Black had a pretty, but very light and soft singing voice. I'd imagine she was fired due to not being able to be heard over the orchestra.

Betty Buckley did the workshop of Into The Woods but was gone by the time the show had its out of town tryout.

[quote] Carlyle has been cutting down numbers, but the show is still a little safe and plodding. Jackman is Jackman, but Foster is the one running away with the show at this point.

You seem to be very current on the proceedings over there r223

The original Hero in Forum, Pat Fox, was also fired at the same time as Karen Black. Brian Davies, who replaced him, was the original Rolf from TSOM, and later married Erika Slezak.

Henry Lascoe left Anyone Can Whistle out of town because he had a heart attack. (But he didn’t die, as some accounts say. He lived another year).

The two leading men in Friedman’s MWRA at the Huntington were her Menier leads, Damian Humbley and Mark Umbers. The rest of the cast, including Mary (Eden Espinosa) was American.

[quote]Vicious?

[quote]or just repetitious

For r196:

if this were the older days when (1) Riedel was regularly writing for the NY Post and [2] not in Rudin's pocket we might get some dish on the press response to Mirimontez' snark but probably not now. Mikey you must read DL here, what do you say?

[quote] Has Scott Rudin seen The Music Man yet? Have they snuck him in? Has he disguised himself and mingled with the crowd?

He’s been disguised as the player piano in the “Grecian Urn” scene.

I love "Miller's Son". It's the 11 o'clock number, which is brilliant, since it's not a typical 11 o'clock number. Petra is the only one who's happy and "gets it". Everyone else around her is batty.

r248 for the win all you idiots

Indeed.

[quote] I love "Miller's Son". It's the 11 o'clock number,

Send in the Clowns is the 11 o’clock number.

Some folks on ATC are saying about TMM, among other things: Hugh and Sutton have no chemistry, Hugh is not playing Harold Hill, but just himself -- he's being presentational, pretty much playing to the audience, there's too much dancing in the show, and why are all the townfolk, all these cheap eat-all-your-own-food-you-bring Iowa Stubborn people dancing right away and not waiting at least until later in the gym during "Trouble" or during the "Shipoopi" for Chrissake?

actually, pardon, they are dancing right away during "Trouble" and not waiting until "76 Trombones", Hill's 2nd big concerted number.

Concerted? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

A musical number with ensemble of people

"Concerted number" in musicals is a term used in discussing musicals. I did google search which brings up quite a few examples, but it won't allow me to post the google search page here.

I believe there were a number of cast replacements on SUNDAY IN THE PARK between its Playwrights Horizons presentation of Act I and Broadway. Some were even actors who chose to leave. Wasn't Baranski actually one of those?

[quote] I believe there were a number of cast replacements on SUNDAY IN THE PARK between its Playwrights Horizons presentation of Act I and Broadway.

Kelsey Grammer was not invited to join the Broadway production.

Yeah, I think Kelsey did all right for himself. Who knows where he'd be now if hadn't been available for Cheers?

Ellen Foley must have been distraught at not getting to open "Into the Woods" on Broadway.

She was the weak link in San Diego, r260, though some of that has to do with the punk rock conception of the Witch there.

Well, she was allowed join the Broadway production, so they didn't hold it against her. Sondheim apparently gave her jewellery inscribed with "To the Alpha and Omega."

"allowed"

What does that mean, r262?

Someone claims she was the weak link in the cast.

I think Diane Langton’s performance of “The Miller’s Son” in the original West End production was definitive.

She’s now playing a batty old granny on a soap over there.

Langton's attendance was so poor that Prince vowed never to work with her again.

Langton and Elaine Paige were in a trio that inspired "Rock Follies."

D'Jamin Bartlett was really excellent in person doing "The Miller's Son" on Broadway. It really perked up the theater towards the end of the show. I don't know what her reputation was -- someone who I met who knew her thought that show was her ticket to fame and stardom and -- it didn't happen. So I don't know if she was acting all entitled or what back during the show. I mean, she was lucky to get the part after "It's "Ow!" and "Garn!' that keep you in your place, Not your wretched clothes and dirty face" Stephens was sacked.

rather, D'Jamin thought the show was her ticket to stardom

No, R267, Elaine Paige was never in Rock Bottom, the group which became the basis for Rock Follies (there was actually a lawsuit over this). Rock Bottom consisted of Annabelle Leventon, Gaye Brown and Langton. Langton and Paige were very similar looking (both tiny in stature), though.

It wouldn't surprise me if Bartlett was cold shouldered and reacted in kind. To walk into a show with a voice like that and get (arguably) the 11 O'Clock number...

Langton and Paige were in a group together. You're correct about Rock Bottom, though. Now that I think about, I think the Langton/Page group feature males as well.

Sondheim gave Ellen Foley jewelry?

r257, in Lapine's book on the making of Sunday, Mandy Patinkin recalls that Kelsey was really unhappy in the workshop and hated Lapine's direction, so Many told him about a new pilot that might be a good fit for him--and that's how Grammer got cast as Frasier. Baranski was tapped by Mike Nichols for whatever play he was directing at the time, and that's why she left after the workshop.

The Real Thing, R273. Considering Christine won the Tony for it, I'd say she made the right choice.

The Real Thing

“…hated Lapine’s direction” is a common rejoinder.

I worked with Doris Bartlett many years ago. There's nothing wrong with her personality, but she did tick off the cast one night during the run when something went wrong during A Weekend In the Country--I forget what--and the orchestra kept playing that vamp while, Doris said, Len Cariou kept mopping his brow (as if it was part of the staging) and no one could pick up the vocal again. And I think--after so many years, I'm not sure--that Doris just gave up and walked offstage. It was something like that. I don't remember now how they picked th show up again.

Speaking of The Miller's Son and Silly People, DL fave Ethan Mordden was on a Theater Talk discussing them on a show about Sondheim, and he said that The Miller's Son was there to re-establish the them of the three smiles of the summer night, to set up Madame Armfeldt's last lines. (And then she died.)

Mordden admitted that Silly People doesn't work, because it's too gnarly and slows up the action. But The Miller's Son is a gangbusters number. It's a very happy piece of ALNM, no matter what.

Someone in some book claimed the three potential suitors mentioned in th song mirror the three male leads--the miller's son is the young guy, the Prince of Wales is Count Carl-Magnus, and the lawyer is whoever's left.

How that aids our understanding of the show I don't know. It's just good music to me.

^^^Sorry. I meant the THEME of the three smiles.

Doesn’t Lapine mean rabbit in French? Does that fit well with his personality?

Where did Doris get D'Jamin from?

^^^I never asked. I'm guessing that Jamin was her middle (or maiden?) name, and she liked the elision.

How does she pronounce it? Jammin, or Jaymen? And is she Dee Jammin, or is the D silent?

[quote]Rudin's a monster but his taste and theatrical instincts are second to none. So hopefully he'll wrangle this into shape. Zaks is obviously more than capable as well -- as it's easy to forget his '92 'Guys and Dolls' was also in dire straits during most of previews.

Your first sentence is an exaggeration, to put it mildly. And as for Zaks, some people feel he lost whatever talent he had some time ago.

Anyway, the dishonesty and hypocrisy on the part of anyone involved in THE MUSIC MAN who takes the moral high ground by pretending that Rudin is no longer calling the shots is pretty shocking, especially after the painfully obvious publicity stunt of issuing a press release to announce that all of the critics will be invited only on opening night. I can't think of anyone other than Rudin who would even have the idea of doing something like that and then make such a huge deal out of it.

I always thought that too, R251, listening to the CD and of course how popular the song was. And that the protagonist sings it! Yet when I finally saw it staged, I thought, My God, "Miller's Son" is the 11 o'clock number! It really is, in my opinion.

But anyway, one could argue the show doesn't have one, so forth. It's an interesting discussion.

I love the explanation upthread about the 3 men in the show being the 3 men Petra talks about (at least symbolically). That sounds like something Sondheim and Prince would do, and be interested in, as well. Very interesting.

Meh, The Miller's Son is a boring song that stops the cold just when you want it to resolve. Cut it.

R282: It's "Jaymen." And I always called her "D," because that's what everyone else called her.

I always called her "C" because I'm a lady.

"Garn!"

[quote] But anyway, one could argue the show doesn't have one, so forth. It's an interesting discussion.

Is it?

Does this have any gay sex in it?

[quote]Mandy Patinkin recalls that Kelsey was really unhappy in the workshop and hated Lapine's direction, so Many told him about a new pilot that might be a good fit for him--and that's how Grammer got cast as Frasier.

If that's what Mandy is going around saying, he's wrong. Frasier wasn't even in the pilot of Cheers. He didn't pop up for a few seasons at least.

And it just didn't sound like a good fit for either man. Lapine obviously isn't a good director, but then again, a workshop situation is a workshop situation, even when there's an audience present. It isn't about the actors; it's a time for the authors to investigate and play with their material. The actors quite often have to suck it up and be good little puppets. Even in the end product (and it's one of my favorite shows ever) NO ONE in that show, outside of the two leads, has a fully fleshed out character to explore. That's just what it is.

R283 Makes you wonder how big the Music Man's print ad budget is

[quote] And as for Zaks, some people feel he lost whatever talent he had some time ago.

Another one of those "some people feel" "some people say" quotes. [italic] Some people [/italic] say anything. [italic] Some people [/italic] feel the earth is flat, [italic] some people[/italic] don't think Biden won.

If you don't have a source, "some people" think you're just a shit-stirrer. Or if it's you that thinks that, grow a pair and say it.

Joe Rogan says [italic] some people [/italic] feel COVID vaccines have microchips.

Some people say Joe Rogan has micropenis.

That fucker Sondheim always said he preferred actors who could sing over singers who could act. I’m the dame who proved him wrong.

Some say

But firing Garn was a Hal Prince decision, not an SS decision, right?

Some people got it and make it pay

Some people can't even give it away....

Anyone see Baranski as Mrs. Lovett in DC at the Sondheim Festival? She was out the night I was there and I felt lucky, even though her understudy was under rehearsed and had trouble going up and down those stairs.

No, r295, *everybody* says that. Well, everybody that's actually seen it (can find it), that is.

Baranski Pies...

She was fine, but a little mechanical and forced. A friend was in the chorus and said Baranski was constantly running lyrics even in the bathroom. When I saw it, there was a moment where she seemed to connect more deeply, and she lost the lyrics.

R303, I think I know what you mean, but I suppose one could also describe Lansbury's performance as "mechanical" and "forced." Mrs. Lovett is a character that everyone rightly tends to play very broadly.

Except Julia MacKenzie, who was actually subtle yet hilariously funny. The best Mrs. Lovett in my opinion, and I've seen most of them.

Why was D fired in the middle of "Working" Broadway previews? Was she that much of a bitch?

Julia was the best Witch in ITW that I witnessed. Didn't see her Lovett, but Lansbury would be hard to beat.

Carolee Carmello gave us an amazing Lovett off Broadway a few years ago in that environmental production downtown.

I think she was a replacement (I saw her opposite Norm Lewis as Sweeney), but she nailed Lovett’s dual personality (sweet mum/amoral murderer).

Agreed, Carmello was great as Lovett. And yes, she was a replacement.

[Quote] There will be two Sondheim revivals on Broadway next season: Sweeney and Merrily

The last thing we need is another Sweeney.

My guess is, in the near future, only Sweeney and Into the Woods will be revived with any frequency. Every now and again there will be a Follies, Company, and Sunday but those will be few.

Forum will be revived often.

Sunday too. It is a beautiful piece.

Into the Woods; Night Music. It might be easier to identify the shows that won't be revived often. Passion; the Bounce iterations.

I think Night Music will be revived often, too, provided the producers can find a good Desiree. It's the conceptual pieces (Company, Follies, etc.) that have dated the worst. And I say that as someone who unapologetically LOVES Follies. And, as much as I love Forum, I think that style of comedy just isn't revivable. Certainly not at the moment.

I saw the Baranski/Grammer Sweeney. It was serviceable. Neither star was well cast. Grammer has never had the Shakespearean gravitas he seems to think he has. He is best at light comedy and his voice was not up to the demands of the role. Baranski, oddly was best at the dramatic moments. Her style of comedy didn't match the piece. She was...odd. That said, neither of them exactly embarrassed themselves.

Is the Follies movie gathering any steam?

It's still on the BBC Films site and marked as 'in production' so that has to be something of a good sign. Surely pre-production though

God, I hope not, r315.

Re Baranski, I saw her Lovett at the KC Festival and thought she was very stiff and mannered. Not awful, really--just not right, and certainly not as wonderful as she says she was. I can't imagine her with Grammer; I have trouble watching him in anything.

Directed by just-deceased Calvin Remsberg:

[Quote] God, I hope not, R315.

Are you assuming it will be with the National Theatre cast? That's not the impression I have.

The most revived Sondheim show will always be Gypsy, even though it's not exactly a Sondheim show. I think ITW will also be strong because it features kids.

They cannot possibly make a movie of Follies. Musicals are even more expensive than other genres, and no one will pay to see it except a niche audience of gay Broadway-lovers.

Even West Side Story isn't drawing crowds on the grand scale, and WSS is bigger than niche.

I love Follies; we all do. It's virtually why we're all here. But that film will never happen.

[quote]no one will pay to see it except a niche audience of gay Broadway-lovers

But we buy a LOT of extra-butter popcorn and junior mints.

Who the fuck thought this was a good idea? Is the video on slo-mo, like one of those old 45s played at 33?

Bless 'er!

Follies can be cast wall-to-wall with star names. West Side Story can't. That doesn't mean a movie of Follies will be a hit, but it will attract the money men.

R321 But Follies should be a lot cheaper due to the far fewer locations needed. And I bet you could get a bunch of stars to do it cheaply for the prestige.

Hell they could even shoot in the theatre at Alexandra Palace and save a tonne on set dressing (when the theatre was 'refurbished' after sitting unused for decades, it was decided to preserve the decay).

I saw Baranski do Mrs. Lovett. She was quite funny — but couldn’t hold a candle to McKenzie, who was brilliant at the Cottesloe.

I suspect it’s too late to see Bernadette do Lovett, but I’d love to see Maria Friedman do the role at some point.

How about Bernadette in "Curley McDimple"? Is that ever revived?

[quote] If that's what Mandy is going around saying, he's wrong. Frasier wasn't even in the pilot of Cheers. He didn't pop up for a few seasons at least.

R291, honey, you aren’t quite right. Cheers premiered (Frasier-less) in the fall of 1982. The workshop of SITPWG was in the summer of 1983. The Broadway production opened in May 1984. Frasier Crane, played by Kelsey G, debuted in September, 1984. Which would have filmed in July. So the timing actually works perfectly for Mandy’s version of events to be accurate.

oh SNAP r330

[quote]I think ITW will also be strong because it features kids.

Where, r320?

R332 The London park production had a child as narrator.

R330 Plus Grammer himself confirms it - just with the slightly different detail that Patinkin recommended him to the casting director

So, r333...kid?

Did somebody mention Follies....

Actually, the casting director detail may have been part of Mandy's narrative in Lapine's book.

By the way, whatever gripes one may have about Lapine, his book is delightful.

[quote] oh SNAP [R330]

Except the quote above said:

[quote] Mandy Patinkin recalls that Kelsey was really unhappy in the workshop and hated Lapine's direction, so Many told him about a new pilot that might be a good fit for him--and that's how Grammer got cast as Frasier.

"Pilot" meaning Cheers wasn’t on the air yet, right? R330s timeline makes more sense, where Mandy would have told him about a specific role that was being cast.

Dear God, I just realized, that suggests that Mandy might have been up for Frasier Crane himself. Can you imagine?

R338 Actors do not tell other actors about roles they are up for. EVER.

No love for Imelda as Lovett?

Little Red Riding Hood and Jack definitely

Oh, for Chrissake, r338. That was my statement and it wasn't prepared for inclusion in a legal brief or an academic journal. It may not have been for a pilot; I don't recall and it didn't occur to me to leaf through the book for a direct quote.

You may need to up your dose.

R335 Yes, a kid.

SPOILERS - The child who narrates the show ends up being the child of the Baker and his wife. It kinda makes sense, watch it. Shame the actor playing the Baker is a pile of shit you do not care about. Oh, and the chick from ted Lasso plays the Witch. Also, kinda sucky here.

The popularity of ITW is potent because it attracts families with kids, unlike any other SS show. That's the point to be made.

ITW is popular with kids if they don't watch Act 2 (or if the show is done without it, as it sometimes is).

Oh, yeah. Addicts love responsibilities.

I just watched a video where Doris Roberts talks about a friend who went in for "Maude." The friend told Doris that Roberts would be perfect for the role.

Doris Roberts was a car wash cunt.

I thought Car Wash had a black cast.

Is it Covid? Politicization? What what what is causing the spike in insufferable and, far worse, BORING pedantic battles on DL of late?

Is there a kid or several? Is that chord tonic? Was it a pilot? Please stop and remember you're writing for public entertainment and distraction not your petty and tiresome masturbatory assertions.

Darlings, I know you don't want to be bores. So cut it the fuck out.

I know many here hate her, but Imelda's Mrs. Lovette was great. And I too have seen many of them.

[quote] Imelda's Mrs. Lovette

Oh dear.

[quote] And I too have seen many of them

And yet.

I know everyone thinks Imelda is fabulous, but I've never seen her when she wasn't chewing the scenery shamelessly. I don't understand what I'm missing.

You know who embarrassed themselves? Emma Thompson. Yikes!

Indeed she did.

Imelda didn't chew the scenery throughout Sweeney Todd. I love how the bedrock of her performance was barely surpressed terror.

Mandy hates LA and his kids were quite young in the 80s, so maybe he was offered a chance to audition for Frasier & turned it down.

R352 You missed nothing. I especially hated her Martha, what a dump.

Imelda was far too fit for Martha.

[quote]ITW is popular with kids if they don't watch Act 2 (or if the show is done without it, as it sometimes is).

Elementary school students perform INTO THE WOODS Jr., which is basically Act One.

Imelda really was heartbreaking in that film Vera Drake, though.

R360 Much better in films than musicals or plays.

Umm, Mandy was a little busy with Sunday in the Park.....maybe that's why he didn't audition for Cheers?

Did many (or any?) of you like Lupone's Mrs. Lovett? I thought Cerveris was a very good Sweeney as well as Manoel Felciano.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1962, "A Passage to India" opened at the Ambassador Theatre.

I didn't love LuPone in Sweeney, but she wasn't nearly as awful as I feared she'd be. I thought Cerveris was terrific.

APTI

Garn returned to Grease after being fired from ALNM and displaced Jamie Donnelly who would play Jan in the movie. She said she was fired and it was devastating to her. To tie in another thread, Stephens was in the second season of Phyllis after the deceased Barbara Colby's character was given to Liz Torres but it was a failure.

r346, are you sure it wasn't Remington Steel she was talking about? I remember Roberts telling the story about how she got the part on that show after a friend told her about it, but I thought she was just offered the Maude role (which she was then fired from).

If they/them'd only been faded/If they/them'd only been fat…

NYT released some fall numbers. In case the article is paywalled, here's one from another site.

The NYT article for those who can see it.

I don't think it's fair to compare Patti's Mrs. Lovett to others since she was hampered by Doyle's gimmicky production.

Wasn't Lupone also Mrs. Lovett in the SF Orchestra production with George Hearn, directed by Lonnie Price, which was broadcast on PBS? I thought she was OK in that but not better than OK. I think Hearn was a last minute replacement for opera star Bryn Terfel, who dropped out at the last minute.

I'm old and can't remember anything anymore, very open to correction.

Saw Baranski at the Kennedy Center opposite Brian Stokes Mitchell. Liked her. Hated him.

(Nice cock on the Judge body double....)

Could somebody please explain to the geriatric showtune queens that we don't all know their cutesy little show acronyms?

I [italic] am [/italic] a geriatric show tune queen and I do not know what APTI is

From the picture, I think it stands for “A Passage to India”

Yes, in reference to r364...a mere 2 posts before.

So...Baranski was in 2 Sweeneys? One with Kelsey and one with Stokes?

Loved the interview with Doris Roberts at r 368. But was she really so well-known in Hollywood before Remington Steele that she wouldn't have to read for the role at her audition?

Yes. I saw her at the Kennedy Center, and though I remember Stokes, I don't even remember Baranski's performance.

Where did Baranski do Sweeney Todd with Kelsey Grammer?

Wasn’t they in LA? I know he did it in LA.

Or wuzzzz they?

[quote] Where did Baranski do Sweeney Todd with Kelsey Grammer?

Please see caption and video at R318.

And when Baranski did SWEENEY with Stokes in D.C., Johanna was played by Celia Keenan-Bolger, and Anthony was Hugh Panaro.

The Times gave "Intimate Apparel" a valentine of a review.

Possibility of an open run in the future?

That woman looks a little like Jane Asher.

[quote] But was she really so well-known in Hollywood before Remington Steele that she wouldn't have to read for the role at her audition?

Listen, cunt, they weren't tuning into Angie to watch that butterball Donna Pescow.

Did anyone see Steven Keats in "Oh! Calcutta!" The Doris Roberts comments reminded me that she had a supporting role in "Hester Street" which he had starred with Carol Kane (DL fave?).

R389 Ha, Doris was a real life Helen Lawson.

I’m so thankful to my brilliant director Rob Ashford that our Sunset will begin filming right after the Follies film wraps!

[quote]No love for Imelda as Lovett?

I thought Imelda was great. She found a different take on the character and didn't just do a variation on Angela's. I was also really impressed by Michael Ball's Sweeney. If you had told me beforehand that I'd find him terrifying, I would have laughed in your face. But he was.

Overall, I thought it was a terrific production (even though moving the time period to the 30s made little difference or sense). It was certainly a hundred times better than Doyle's ridiculous revival.

Michael Ball didn't disappear onstage in that production. That's the best I can say about his performance.

Is there a "Doris Roberts is the cuntiest cunt who ever cunted" thread on DL?

If so, I want a link.

And, it wouldn't surprise...she seems pretty cunty in every role she ever played.

She actually would have made more sense as Edith Bunker's cousin Maude just based on look and personailty. She looks like someone who could be related to Edith. But, Doris Roberts as Maude would never have gotten a spin off...she would have just been Edith's cunty cousin who bickers with Archie. Doris Roberts didn't have the star power/charisma to headliner her own show. Strictly a second/third banana type.

Like Betty White.

Michael Ball is always better than you think he’ll be, but never quite good enough.

Didn't Doris do one of the [italic] Millie [italic] workshops before Pat Carroll got the part and then was replaced by Harriet Harris

What Broadway needs to get going again is a production of M. Butterfly.

What Broadway doesn't need is another reiteration of the stagnant "Hangmen". Will someone please let this piece of shit die already???

A 10 week run probably means "Kimberly Akimbo" will take the Golden in the Fall.

Some wag on Twitter said Broadway Cares should get a hold of a few of those GILDED AGE props to auction off. First two up would be the breakfast tray Carrie Coon hurls off her bed and the life-size portrait of Donna Murphy.

Why aren't Mary Testa and Jackie Hoffman in THE GILDED AGE? And how the hell did Harriet Sansom Harris not get cast??

Patti was an awful Mrs. Lovett. She can’t do any sort of British accent. Which is why she also sucked in Noises Off. And Oliver!

r399 we just had one in 2017 directed by Julie Taymor with Clive Owen and it bombed bigtime, it ain't coming back

Someone posted a compilation video of LuPone's theatrical career, with some footage included. I could not understand a fucking word from the Noises Off clip.

[quote]Why aren't Mary Testa and Jackie Hoffman in THE GILDED AGE?

By popular demand.

[quote] I could not understand a fucking word from the Noises Off clip.

I bet the audience could understand every word when she started screaming at the stage manager.

Hangmen - Act One.

Hangmen - Act Two.

[quote] Didn't Doris do one of the Millie workshops before Pat Carroll got the part and then was replaced by Harriet Harris?

Don't know that Doris Roberts was ever involved, but the first public workshop performance was led by Kristin Chenoweth, Bea Arthur (in the part that went to Carroll in La Jolla and Harris on Broadway) and David Campbell.

I watched those Hangman and can't, for the life of me, understand why people raved about it. Nothing happens

The best Lovett ever was, of course Lansbury. Thankfully we have a commercially filmed recording of her. While every other Lovett just throws away some lines, she's able to find the humor in so much of her role.

I believe the film is from when it was on tour. By that point, she could have used a director to rein her in a bit--but what a performance!

I've seen a dozen production and no one comes close.

Yes, Lansbury is playing things a bit more broadly in that 1982 national tour filming than at the start of the run on Broadway, but I still think she is unmatched as well. Without her star power and audacious original performance, who knows if it would have landed the way it did. It could easily have ended up as a candidate for the wall at Joe Allen.

[quote] If you had told me beforehand that I'd find him terrifying, I would have laughed in your face. But he was.

Oh, Mikey Ball isn’t scary at all! He’s just a big, overstuffed love snuggly teddy bear!

I mean, or so I’ve heard.

[quote] Why aren't Mary Testa and Jackie Hoffman in THE GILDED AGE?

Because Julian wanted actors, not shameless hambones who devour the scenery.

The stuff about Lupone being mushmouthed was funny but is really tired. She fixed it, always now with carefully clipped consonants and is perfectly articulate now. Give it a rest.

Seriously, R415, fuck off with trying to police the thread.

Pot? Kettle?

[quote]By that point, she could have used a director to rein her in a bit--but what a performance!

Made of fire and music!

I recently listened to the Lincoln Center Anything Goes, expecting to hear some of that famous Patti Lu Turkish. But in fact every line was clear, so even then it wasn't true about her diction being foggy.

It seems as though someone started this criticism based on nothing and it stuck. Maybe it was those high lines in Evita, that no one can sing clearly. It's too opera.

But if this legend about her diction isn't totally false, it's the next thing to it.

[quote] I believe the film is from when it was on tour. By that point, she could have used a director to rein her in a bit--but what a performance!

I think when a show is filmed, it’s difficult for actors. They have to play big to reach the audience in the back row, but when the camera is doing closeups, the actor looks over the top.

Can You Dig It - Biil T Jones And D Man In The Waters.

[quote]But if this legend about her diction isn't totally false, it's the next thing to it.

Perhaps this performance had something to do with it. Now with subtitles.

I remember seeing Patti presenting at the Tonys (this century). She over enunciated. She's aware of the issue. She probably (over)corrects sometimes and other times she falls back into old habits. Patti would have know the Anything Goes performance was being filmed for posterity...

I recently listened to the cast album of Evita and Rainbow High was at the usual speed, so all this talk of her speeding it up later in the run are obviously a total lie.

*would have known

[Quote] I recently listened to the cast album of Evita and Rainbow High was at the usual speed, so all this talk of her speeding it up later in the run are obviously a total lie.

Ha ha.

There was a thread on Patti and Bernadette recently. We have at least two Patti stans among us.

[quote] I recently listened to the Lincoln Center Anything Goes, expecting to hear some of that famous Patti Lu Turkish. But in fact every line was clear, so even then it wasn't true about her diction being foggy.

Maybe that’s because you know every lyric of Anything Goes because the songs are so popular.

Patti’s diction problem was so well known that Forbidden Broadway did a spoof on it.

[quote]Because Julian wanted actors, not shameless hambones who devour the scenery.

My most vivid memory of "On the Town" is Jackie Hoffman literally climbing the scenery at one point in an effort to get a laugh. Not because it was even remotely funny, but because I was shocked she was allowed to get away with it.

[quote] But if this legend about her diction isn't totally false,

She talks about Sondheim telling her he couldn't understand her when she did Passion.

Did Angela Lansbury lipsync in the '79 Tony performance of The Worst Pies In London?

[quote]Did Angela Lansbury lipsync in the '79 Tony performance of The Worst Pies In London?

She's very clearly lip-syncing throughout and comes in too late on the opening "A customer!"

Doris Roberts was not up for the character of Maude. She was up for Vivian.

I've worked with Doris Roberts. I can confirm she was every inch a cunt as rumor speculates.

Hah! I also worked with Doris and found her less than pleasant. I wonder if it was the same occasion, r434?

I doubt it, R435. I was a child at the time. But I don't doubt your experience was as miserable as mine. And I met her again as an adult and brought up the fact that we had worked together years ago. She looked at me, turned and walked away. I said to my companion- Still a cunt!

She sneered at me, too, r436 and this was about 8 years ago.

I very much doubt that Sweeney would have been a big flop without Lansbury. Even if someone else of lesser quality had been cast, the show itself would have still have been brilliant.

[quote]I recently listened to the Lincoln Center Anything Goes, expecting to hear some of that famous Patti Lu Turkish. But in fact every line was clear, so even then it wasn't true about her diction being foggy. It seems as though someone started this criticism based on nothing and it stuck. Maybe it was those high lines in Evita, that no one can sing clearly. It's too opera. But if this legend about her diction isn't totally false, it's the next thing to it.

No. The truth is that Patti's diction problem is a real one, but intermittent. Sometimes, when she makes an effort at it, you can clearly understand every word she's singing, and other times, not so much. It also depends somewhat on the style of music, where the song lies in her range, and so on. I've always thought that sometimes it's not so much her pronunciation of consonants that creates the problem, but her weird pronunciation of vowels, and all that scooping and bending of notes she sometimes does also tends to make the lyrics harder to understand.

I demand a Broadway play about notorious cunt Doris Roberts!

But we all must admit Glennie out-“meh” ed her at the conclusion of “With One Look.”

Played by notorious cunt Harvey Fierstein!

I saw LuPone in Evita in Sydney, before she played it on Broadway. I knew the score backwards and still I could hardly make out a word she sang all night. She might as well have done it in Spanish.

Also in Sydney, Gina Riley (Kim in Kath and Kim) brought her brilliant comic sensibility to Mrs Lovett, but it was only ever scheduled for a 10-night run so she wasn't widely seen. She was particularly fine in a kind of weary ignoring of Sweeney's excesses, as if the main problem was that he kept straying from the point.

I think your chronology is off. Sydney was after Broadway, of course. Did she replace an Australian actress? Or was that the production Julie Covington withdrew from?

It was, R444.

Sweeney Todd was first offered to Patricia Routledge who turned it down because she didn’t like the subject matter.

It's a shame she didn't relent and do it in London.

Routledge would've been a superlative Lovett. Like Angie, she really understood that grand old English 'music hall' tradition, which is so woven into that part.

And while we're at it, John Cullum would've made a hell of a Sweeney. I wonder if he was ever considered for it? He has that classical gravitas that Cariou had in spades. And a magnificent baritone to boot!

I think Cullum regretted turning it down. But I'm surprised he never played the role apparently anywhere. He kept his voice in very good estate.

[quote]She sneered at me, too, [R436] and this was about 8 years ago.

Doris Roberts sneered at me once at D.C.'s National Airport and I wasn't event trying to talk to her. I think it was a preemptive sneer.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1962, "New Faces of 1962" opened at the Alvin Theatre.

Andrew Garfield and Rachel Zegler were paired for Variety's Actors on Actors series, where they discussed starring in two of the season's biggest movie musicals:

R444, you're doubtless right. I wouldn't have assumed anyone would go from Broadway to Sydney rather than the reverse, but certainly our production was later than Britain or the US, so if LuPone debuted Evita on Broadway it would have to have been after.

She was replacing someone I would describe as an Australian performer. (Certainly no actress. I think she went into teaching after that.) Patti was an improvement, but still a disappointment. I hadn't been to NY by then and one heard so much about Broadway that it was a shock to realise how she garbled the lyrics. Her acting was similarly scattered. It was all energy and no precision. Like when you see other people dance The Music and the Mirror and you compare it with McKechnie, whose every move is so well differentiated and precisely placed.

THR reviews "MJ":

And Deadline:

Doris Roberts hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

MJ touched my PP

A song from New Faces of 1962...

[quote]I wouldn't have assumed anyone would go from Broadway to Sydney rather than the reverse, but certainly our production was later than Britain or the US, so if LuPone debuted Evita on Broadway it would have to have been after.

So, are you saying you weren't aware that Patti LuPone debuted Evita on Broadway? Actually, she debuted the role in Los Angeles prior to Broadway, but of course she was the first Eva on Broadway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Patti enjoy Sydney because she'd finally gotten a handle on singing it?

And also that she didn’t have to deal with Hal Prince.

I was in Sydney and just out of high school, R460, and there was no internet. I suppose we were told she was fresh from Broadway at the time, but it's a while ago. Pardon me for not keeping up with the prior life story of someone whose performance was decidedly inferior.

How many Australian stars of the same period can you name?

Toni Lamont.

Lamond!

Jennifer Murphy?

Kristin Dior?

Michelle Breeze?

Patti went over after she left the Broadway cast.

Australia had a series of Eva’s who kept blowing their voices out. After the fourth (Michelle Breeze), they arranged for Patti to come in for three months. She loved it because she finally got rave reviews (or as she says in her book, “the reviews I should have gotten in NY”).

Yikes.

Any links to LuPone's Aussie reviews?

Incidentally, the CD of the original Korean cast of EVITA was pointless, because everything was on one track. Therefore, you couldn't skip songs. So what was the point of putting it on CD?

Some reviews for MJ's lead seem to put Hugh Jackman's chances of another Tony some pause.

“The musical starred PATTI LuPONE, who had been an emergency replacement for JENNIFER MURPHY, Australia's original "Eva Peron" when she severely damaged her voice in Melbourne and was forced to speak her songs. Her co-stars were PETER CARROLL as "Peron" and JOHN O'MAY as "Che" and in featured roles, PETER STYLES, LAURA MITCHELL and MARIETTE RUPS as the alternate "Evita" ”

More Aussie E

They look so old.

Beanie Feldstein IS Doris Roberts!

El oh el.

Doris seems like the type to flash her whoo haw to intimidate people and get the upper hand.

Evita in Australia was...you guessed it, Frank Stallone!

I wonder if they ever had Ruth Buzzi on standby.

I heard someone saying the actor from A Strange Loop would take the Tony from Jackman this season. Honey, if they didn't like Slave Play, they ain't gonna go for a fat, sloppy, whiny black bottom.

By black do you mean hair color?

Evita in Australia? That’s taking the Rainbow Tour too far!

please listen to Che's soccer speech at r470. Please. I beg you.

It’s a polo match, and yes, his delivery is atrocious

sorry, yes, polo. what is with those "uhhhhh" before so many lines? Priceless.

[quote]Incidentally, the CD of the original Korean cast of EVITA was pointless, because everything was on one track. Therefore, you couldn't skip songs. So what was the point of putting it on CD?

Like the first CD release of the original cast recording of THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. So freaking weird.

R473-Don't kid yourself. It's the perfect time for "A Strange Loop" to sweep the Tony Awards in all musical categories. No one is going to give TMM a damned thing.

r463 is Meghan...

Patti down under

More Patti

I think that a lot of audiences and Tony voters are not gonna go for A Strange Loop, the Big Queer Black Sloppy Musical. Let’s not forget that the Times notice was very mixed the first time around.

How did it come to win a Pulitzer, I wonder.

Watched Come From Away on Apple+ yesterday. I enjoyed the staging and the performances, but I kept thinking, Does this need to be a musical? It would have just as much impact, if not more, if it was a play. (It didn't help that I didn't find the music all that interesting or varied. Well-performed, though.)

Hugh! Sutton! Kathy!

Well. I'm sure the Public's announcement of Danai Gurira as Richard III isn't going to cause any issues on here

I look forward to seeing Billy Porter as Cleopatra.

Interesting choice of Michelle Breeze to perform “Buenos Aires” as an homage to Jimmy Durante.

[quote] I look forward to seeing Billy Porter as Cleopatra.

Fuck you, r498, for putting that out into the ether. Now you know it’s going to happen at some point.

[quote] I'm sure the Public's announcement of Danai Gurira as Richard III

At least she’s not trying to pull off Hamlet in her 70s!

Ha-cha-cha-cha, r499!

r489, A Strange Loop won't have anyone contending in Lead Actress, right? So Sutton certainly has a chance there, especially since she sounds like the best thing in it (though the fact that she's not singing the part in the original key will no doubt hurt her among purists). Who else is there? Reactions to Lenk have been mixed. Clarke's show closed and will be a distant memory. Feldstein? The actress from Paradise Square?

A bit too long in the tooth, r501.

Of course Hugh announces in the NYT article that he and his lovely bride Deborrah Lee share a bed. So when he got Covid, she did too.

He never misses an opportunity to tell the world he is straight. No other male celebrity goes to these lengths.

He’s just pathetic.

That Australian Evita made my ears bleed. Is she not capable of legato singing?

How will Hugh react if Sutton ends up getting better notices than he does?

[quote] Who else is there? Reactions to Lenk have been mixed. Clarke's show closed and will be a distant memory. Feldstein? The actress from Paradise Square?

Joaquina Kalukango is the actress from Paradise Square and has a lot going for her. She's great in it, and gets a genuine showstopper 11 o'clock number. I think there is lingering sentiment too that she should have won for Slave Play (no matter what one thinks of that play).

Ride the Cyclone.

r503 Best Actress reallylooks like a solid category. Whether or not Beanie is good, anyone who plays Fanny Brice probably has to be nominated, Clarke was tremendous, Sutton is the surprise of Music Man, and Joaquina is supposed to be amazing. Katrina is the weakest Lenk but she'll round out a very strong category.

Any word of who will stand by for Beanie?

R511 I’m assuming Ben in drag?

Molly Pope!

Does Aidy Bryant sing?

Does the understudy also have to obese?

[quote] Clarke was tremendous

I may be in the minority, but when I saw her, I thought Clarke was navigating the role very cautiously, and her "Lot's Wife" received a polite response, but nothing extraordinary. My memory of the original production was that Tonya Pinkins really threw herself into that role with everything she had. She also allowed her Caroline to have a few moments of joy amid the unrelenting sullenness of the character. Clarke was pretty dour and one-note throughout.

Several friends of mine who only saw this recent revival came out of the production mystified by what the fuss was about. There's a YouTube bootleg of Pinkins in performance, where she is in much better voice than at the Tony Awards. I played that for them, and their response was that there is just no comparison between the two performances.

An Alice Ripley/Marin Mazzie situation.

Perhaps Billy Porter will play Lady Anne to Danai's Richard III although he's more a mad queen Margaret

When I saw Clarke, she couldn't sing on pitch.

Totally agree, r516. A friend pointed out that Clarke is some 20 years older than Pinkins was in the original, and it shows. Her energy level was low when I saw the show and dramatically, Caroline should be young enough to have children at a young age (she says she met her husband in 1943, and it's 1963). Clarke is in her mid-50s and didn't bring the fierce passion that Pinkins brought when she tore up the stage with Lot's Wife.

There's video evidence of Pinkins singing way off pitch in the Tony awards number from CAROLINE, and she also had pitch problems when I saw her in the show. But as for Clarke singing off pitch, we'll have to take some DL poster's word for it. Or not.

Clarke isn't insane. So there's that.

Wow, I thought Clarke was going to be a shoo-in for the Tony.

What is r509? Is that a musical called "Ride the Cyclone"?

R524

Ride the Cyclone is a musical with music, lyrics and book by Jacob Richmond and Brooke Maxwell.[1]

It tells the story of the members of St. Cassian High School chamber choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, who perish on a faulty rollercoaster called "The Cyclone". Each tells a story to win the reward of a mechanical fortune teller — the chance to return to life.

I forgive Patti for her mushy enunciation. By approximating words. The brassiness of her voice is emphasized. Ethel Merman in comparison had great enunciation but seems to scream. I understand the melodies much more because Patti puts melody over enunciation.

It reminds me of Joan Sutherland in the opera world—extraordinary vocals with mushy pronunciation—but who cares?

Lyricists? Appreciators of lyrics? People who want to know what the hell is happening?

James Corden mentioned the other night that he'd love to return to Broadway in "The Producers".

Please God, no. FORUM might have worked (especially after One Man, Two Guv) but he's no Bialystock.

Corden should learn from Carol Burnett, who knew that playing Jewish wasn't within her wheelhouse.

Will the Tonys really happen in the spring?

Not. Rita.

[quote]I understand the melodies much more because Patti puts melody over enunciation.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Name some movies that gave a nod to the original stage show by including an original cast member.

Colm Wilkinson in Les Miserables

Chita Rivera in Chicago

Loretta Devine in Dreamgirls

Not. Chad.

John Raitt in Pajama Game.

R535, not a stage star who repeated their leading role. A stage star who did a cameo in a film as a nod to the original show.

Andrea McArdle as "Star-to-Be" in the TV movie of "Annie."

R537 NO! He said film, not TV. Don't trigger him.

The Asian dancers in "Kismet"?

Weren't a couple of original Broadway cast members of West Side Story playing cameos in the new film?

[quote]Weren't a couple of original Broadway cast members of West Side Story playing cameos in the new film?

Harvey Evans, who died recently and who appeared in both the original production of "West Side Story" and in the 1961 movie, gets a screen credit in the remake, although I read that he wasn't well enough to film the scene.

Does it have to be original production? Some of the Hair revival cast members appeared in the movie. Ellen Foley played Sheila onstage and she was one of the Black Boys singers in the movie.

But wasn't Harvey Evans actually replaced by another WSS alumni in Spielberg's film? Or is there another alumni in another scene....Bert Michaels maybe? Or maybe one of the original Shark girls??

You’re all assuming, because he’s fat, that’s Corden would play Max. He actually might not be a terrible Bloom

[quote]It tells the story of the members of St. Cassian High School chamber choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, who perish on a faulty rollercoaster called "The Cyclone". Each tells a story to win the reward of a mechanical fortune teller — the chance to return to life.

That sounds like a stupid premise. What was the inspiration?

Around the start of the live musicals on TV revival, I imagined CBS doing My Fair Lady. Zoltan Kaparthy seemed like the least-objectionable role to plug Corden into.

I saw The Producers on Bway without the original cast.

It sucked.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1977, "Otherwise Engaged" opened at the Plymouth Theatre.

R545 Final Destination.

[quote]It tells the story of the members of St. Cassian High School chamber choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, who perish on a faulty rollercoaster called "The Cyclone"

😂 Is it a comedy? It sounds like the flashback in the show COMMUNITY where the glee club dies in a horrible bus accident en route to some sing-of, so the reluctant study group (i.e., main cast) had to take over. 🤣

I watched the beginning of it. It looked like it might have been a somewhat fun and offbeat off-Broadway show.

I read star Helen Lawson was really pissed Hal Wallis gave Laurette Taylor a cameo as Apple Annie in his film version The Glass Menagerie.

Sharon Clarke will win. I greatly preferred the revival to the original production.

Bette Davis put the kibosh on the original casting of Tallulah Bankhead as Eve.

[quote]But wasn't Harvey Evans actually replaced by another WSS alumni in Spielberg's film? Or is there another alumni in another scene....Bert Michaels maybe? Or maybe one of the original Shark girls??

Yes, Bert Michaels replaced Harvey in the Spielberg film, and David Bean is also credited as being in it, but both of those guys were in the '61 film of WSS, not the stage production. I don't know if any of the women from the original Broadway production are in the Spielberg film.

R555 The contacted the agent of Carol Lawrence...

Agreed on Clarke. I saw her in London and I had no desire to go back. If you saw TP, Clarke's performance was fine. Just fine. Enough for a Tony, possibly.

R537, exactly. Tonya Pinkins’ voice may have cracked more than once, but Clarke didnt’t approach that power. If you watch Clarke in interviews, you’ll see her logically assembling a character from the text - she was particularly inspired by the fact that Rose doesn’t learn how to pronounce her name.

Pinkins brought things to the character that were not in the script. I will always remember specific moments of her performance - how forcefully she grabbed her daughter to stop her from mouthing off about MLK, how she scorned both herself and Dotty for going to school at night, and the scathing take “black folks one day will leave like kings”. I have seen more Carolines than I should admit, but none were better. Clarke was very good.

I also think that Pinkins had the advantage of working with George C Wolfe; Clarke did not.

Pinkins performance was bigger but not necessarily better. Clarke's quiet simmer was riveting to me.

[quote] There's video evidence of Pinkins singing way off pitch in the Tony awards number from CAROLINE, and she also had pitch problems when I saw her in the show.

Tonya was asked to take a few shows off before the Tonys to protect her voice, but she did not want to. The result, unfortunately, is that after a week of Caroline performances, she was in complete vocal distress at the Tony Awards performance and it is very difficult to watch.

[quote] Pinkins performance was bigger but not necessarily better. Clarke's quiet simmer was riveting to me.

This is complete nonsense. Tonya didn't deliver a "bigger" performance. She was completely immersed in that role in a way that I didn't feel from Sharon Clarke. Clarke was so downbeat, I kept wondering what fascinated Noah so much about her. Tonya's Caroline, even with more volcanic rage in her vocals, was a much more complex and fully rounded creation. I do agree that she had the benefit of working with George Wolfe, who did incisive and restrained work on that production. I thought the revival was kind of twee and tacky, leaning too much into the show's fantastical elements.

[quote] This is complete nonsense.

I guess you mean you disagree.

Yes, as any sensible person who saw both performances would do.

I bet R563 has never worked out why all his friends are constantly rolling their eyes in his presence

Just keep stamping your feet, R564, over that inadequate Sharon Clarke performance. It will really help your case.

R565 Except I'm not that poster. But I understand in your world you can't possibly comprehend that there may be multiple people who disagree with you on various topics.

Hence the eye rolling of your friends. And probably the hushed conversation and muffled laughter you hear every time you leave.

[quote]This is complete nonsense. Tonya didn't deliver a "bigger" performance.

Complete nonsense? Really? I think Pinkins' performance could be described as "bigger" in the sense that she lost control in "Lot's Wife" and maybe in some of the other really big moments, while Clarke did not.

r/516/r561/r563/r565 we get it. You didn't like it and you're going to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you and just taking up oxygen and keep posting against Clarke. You're either a sociopath or Katrina or Joaquina .

[quote] Several friends of mine

Surely you exaggerate either the quantity or their feelings about you.

The first part of six hours of previously unreleased interviews with Sondheim (from 1997) from the Library of Congress

[quote] Tonya Pinkins’ voice may have cracked more than once,

The cracking just deepened the character more. Pinkins just let loose and it was riveting

Well, I think we can all agree that Tonya Pinkins is certifiable, while Sharon Clarke is perfectly sane.

Sorry, I don’t think Pinkins was either certifiable or too big. She was a woman who accepted her place in an unjust society, but found ways to maintain her dignity and sanity - her family, a cigarette, church. As the world changed, those defenses were exposed.

Clarke gave a decent performance, but this was a woman who rolled her eyes at society rather than gritting her teeth and glaring.

Looks like the realization that Lear deBessonet was a disastrous choice for ENCORES is happening with the first production: Here's the TIMES: "If the musical numbers are sometimes hard to grasp visually, the staging of the book scenes is too often undifferentiated. And at least on opening night, after just 11 days of rehearsal, the technical elements were not yet cohering. For a show about the excitement of dance, the pace is strangely languid. And though one of the things Encores! is designed to show us is what musicals, for better or worse, felt like when they first opened, I’m not sure this production, the first under Lear deBessonet, the new artistic director, succeeds."

[quote]Sorry, I don’t think Pinkins was either certifiable or too big.

I'm pretty sure that "certifiable" was meant as a comment on Pinkins' behavior in real life, especially in recent years, NOT as a description of the way she played Caroline.

Lear is a lily-white rich girl with sincerely good intentions but very misguided. There's really no point to Encores unless it devotes itself to undeserved flops that wealthy theatre queens want to see again and she's not the person to lead that charge..

Lear is extravagantly untalented.

Coral must have given birth to her son when she was 5 because she looks more like his sister.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1982, a revival of "Othello" starring James Earl Jones and Christopher Plummer opened at the Winter Garden Theatre.

Oops. Wrong thread. Sorry.

Darn, r579.

only 20 more posts for whoever always posts the same Jessica Walter GIF to post it

Jessica Walter!

r577, I agree with you regardless. Mwah!!

So who else is NOT excited about Denzel’s threat to do King Lear next year? All of his Shakespeare performances thus far - particularly the misguided Macbeth film just released - have left me cold. As condensed and cut as it was, I actually quite enjoyed Anthony Hopkins in the post-apocalyptic Lear film directed by Richard Eyre from a few years ago.

DENZEL MUST BE TRANS!

An ATC meltdown to end this thread

Kingspeed = c-lister

King Speed is c-lister? So that's - I can't remember his name but he was on Bones. Eric?

I liked him a lot as C-Lister. The hardcore conversation on ATC is annoying, though. But I have to agree that this MJ show shouldn't exist.

I'm sticking to my pledge not to create new thread titles - at least for now - but I'm eager to see a new one.

I would create one if someone gave me a title.

But I blew my load with the title here. I’m spent. But still voyeuristically watching you all talk. More! Harder!

[quote]But I blew my load

Pics please.

So which one of you is waterfall?

That would be me, r591!

R584-That's great concept. A bloated, overweight, hung-over King Lear.

Cynthia out, Fantasia in!

Fantasia is over. This is a mistake.

I never saw Fantasia in Color Purple but everyone who did says she was amazing. I hope she has a great director to translate that onscreen

Anyone care about MJ, The Musical?

I saw Fantasia do it on Broadway (original production). She was astonishing. She IS Celie. Reminded me of when I saw Reba in "Annie Get Your Gun." There was just something magical about the artist in that part. Tony winner LaChanze was too pretty, too controlled for Celie. Fantasia was raw and surprising. And Jesus, that voice...

I HATE jukebox musicals and the obvious attempts to jam songs into a plot. They are basically Las Vegas style musical reviews

It must be said: Bajour!

It must?