A&E Playboy documentary

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Yes, very interested. Was at the Mansion twice. Very rundown and nasty.

Sick.

I wouldn't watch it anyway but I heard Bill Maher say he's in it. Even if you were straight, what could be more of a turnoff?

[quote] The series also includes interviews with Linda Lovelace, the 1970s porn star who found fame with the film Deep Throat, who says she was treated like a 'piece of meat' and forced to perform oral sex on a German Shepherd while Hefner and his friends watched.

Jesus Christ.

The article practically lays out the entire documentary. Did anybody think Hugh Hefner wasn't a disgusting sleazebag? He ran PLAYBOY, not some charity nonprofit.

He was a sexual free spirit. A sprite, singing a clarion call against the hypocritical anti-sex morays of the time.

And a pervert.

[quote]anti-sex morays

He did so much for our sex-positive community.

Hugh Hefner was the epitome of a mid-century white man, and to use an overused phrase: entitled.

Yes, these women went willingly to pose and participate. One can argue all sorts of reasons why young beautiful women would do this.

I’m sure a lot of really shitty things went down at the Playboy mansion.

Hefner never evolved and just kept repeating the same behavior over and over again.

yes I'm FUCKING here for this shit

I hope they reveal a lot of stuff

Hefner was trash

Can you imagine walking on on Hefner wanking off your family dog? How weird and awkward that would be.

I bet Jeffrey Epstein and Hefner would have got along, or at least they had a lot in common.

reading from his ex gf Sondora Theodore that Hefner possessed "Manson Family home videos before the murders" and that he was obsessed with them is quite telling

My sentiments exactly, r4! That sounds like some [italic]Hustler[/italic] shit.

Where are all the secretly filmed sex tapes? Who has them? He kept everything in meticulous order. Celebs? Politicians? Cos? Jack? Lil Leo? I’ll bet James Caan had his own cabinet for his.

Why do say James Caan? Did he live there?

Linda Lovelace did two bestiality porn loops with dogs prior to that, so she had done it before and that's how Hefner knew she would do it and had her recreate it for him in person. She claimed she was forced to do the loops too, but other people there disputed that.

I do think Hefner was jaded and sometimes need stuff like that to get off. Others have claimed he watched gay porn while woman serviced him and had sex with each other. The ones that weren't into women would often fake it though and he wouldn't even notice.

He definitely would've been MeTooed, had he lived. I think he died just as that movement was just starting to take off.

He escaped just in time.

R14 wow would love to find out how many famous men he has tapes of and what happened to the tapes

it wouldn't surprise me if someone had them destroyed upon his death

An interesting thing I noticed was how many young girls wear shirts and have keychains and phone cases with the Playboy Bunny logo. I figure they must be too young to know what that logo is from and it's odd how parents are okay with their young teenage daughters sporting Playboy iconography.

That said, Playboy provided a platform for Black activists, gay activists, abortion activists and many countercultural movements. Hefner's Playboy Club TV show was groundbreaking for being integrated. He was a very modern man for his time. Of course, it doesn't age well by our standards. Most men, straight or gay, are horndogs and if they had that wealth would do the same. Many women would too.

I don’t think he even liked women. After he found out his wife had already lost her virginity before their marriage, everything was a FU to women. He was obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and Betty Page and all his girlfriends looked like one or the other. The declaration that he helped women explore sexual freedom in the 1960s-70s is laughable. Wonder who’s got custody of the roomful of scrapbooks stuffed with every single mention of him or Playboy.

The sex tapes were all supposedly dumped in the ocean in coffin not long before he died.

Warren Beatty was probably one of the ones in them too. Porn star Serena said she had a foursome with fellow porn star Constance Money, Warren and Hef at the mansion.

It's probably full of manufactured bullshit from non playmate Holly Madison. She had her tits and nose plasticized and still came up short on personality. She even let Hef stick his marshmallow in her piggybank. She is sticky pornstar gross.

R21 that's a shame

I'd be interested to see who all the seedy asshole famous men were and what they did

curious if there's anything on Trump too

R23 of course you are.

R24 well why allow asshole celebs to keep positive reputations if they were in fact pieces of shit who mistreated women? whether the men in question are alive or dead the truth should come out

no one would believe the women they abused if there's no video tapes

we know how celeb stan culture works

Watching the first episode. Pretty good so far

The old footage is fascinating

Really interesting so far. Holly Madison is even more gorgeous. The woman who spent her childhood at the mansion seems to be the most honest and compelling and I believe everything she says. Holly? Not so much.

R27, she just said she never had casual sex before, come on!

R28. Big eye roll on that one. I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT then proceeds to talk about it.

Where’s Kendra? No mention of her at all.

Holly sounds full of shit. There’s probably some truth, but most of what she’s saying sounds embellished

Asperger’s, really?

Cooper Hefner posted a message on his Twitter page and a few former playmates chimed in and said their experiences were positive. They weren’t girlfriends thought. Also Bryant the butler who was there during the girls next door years said he wished they would’ve interviewed him.

Also the girlfriend Jennifer saginor is talking about is Carrie Leigh, who he was with in the 80’s. She threatened to sue her when her book came out but saginor provided love letters that Leigh had written her. Saginor”s book should be optioned for a movie or limited series.

Her like women with strong square jaws

I hope Barbi Benton pops up in an episode.

Will the doc cover Hef's bff Bill Cosby? I'm certain they both shared lots of experiences with Cosby's seduction modus operandi

Barbi Benton was adorable

I hope she’s not a right-wing asshole now

For those blaming Hef for his unbridled behavior, I remember a friend saying many years ago about Michael Jackson and the monkeys: “What do you do if everybody’s fantasy is your reality? If you can have any woman (or man) you wanted? Brooke Shields? Done. Liz Taylor? No problem. Things would eventually get old.” Thus Hef and whatever he was into.

Barbi stayed friends with hef.

Men at the playboy mansion called quaaludes “leg spreaders”

WTF lets a 10 year old live in The Playboy Mansion.

R38 agree to a certain extent.

People can either succumb to their most depraved desires or try and be a better/good person

Neither Michael J or Hefner could do that.

Hefner should have been cancelled in the 80s. He was a pig

Can there really be enough content for TEN parts?

Hef really, really cared what other men thought of him. Way too much. Sure sign of innate insecurity and misogyny.

They probably shouldn’t have so much with Holly Madison. Whatever she says now, on the Girls Next Door show she wanted, even expected, to marry him and he was having none of it.

Holly Madison has been dating Zak Bagans from Ghost Adventures for a couple years and they did an episode at her house

Her youtube videos shot there have more orbs than I've ever seen

Holly Madison is talking about this documentary on her YouTube channel. She said she haven't seen the episode yet, just the trailer for it. She also said that thus was shot right before the pandemic started back in 2019, right before we went into lock down. So this was filmed over two years ago, and just airing now.

She said there's also other playboy documentaries in the works too. But she said she probably won't be apart of those docs.

Holly seemed genuine to me.

Hef hated women which is obvious.

Finally. The sanitized version of this guy was annoying.

[quote] Men at the playboy mansion called quaaludes “leg spreaders”

Also called “thigh openers”. Charming.

Hef was a pig, but I have a hard time believing that women like Holly didn’t want to be there. Buyer’s remorse isn’t the same as being taken advantage of.

Less Holly M and more of the woman who was a child at the playboy mansion (who had the affair with one of Hef’s girlfriend)

Does anyone know when the next two parts come out? They are available to stream for free on A&E’s website.

^^^but you have to have a cable connection to stream it. I tried doesn't work.

I listened to the complete thirteen hour audio book of Holly Madison's book "Down the Rabbit Hole" over the holidays (thanks hoopla!) and am available for questions, comments, concerns, Q&As, roundtables, Zoom meetings...for all DataLounge readers

10-part series? Really?

Wonder who slept with more women: Hefner or Mick Jagger

Each must be in the thousands

[quote] 10-part series? Really?

That does seem excessive. I think a two-parter would have sufficed. But I guess they want people to keep tuning in week after week.

I'm not going to watch it. So Hefner was a sleazebag of immense proportions...how could anyone NOT know that by now? But there are Playboy Playmates who insist that Hefner was a wonderful man and they had oodles of fun at the Playboy Mansion. There are ex-Playboy Bunnies who insist that it was a great job and lots of fun and you made a lot of money doing it. and met lots of glamorous people. Some of them actually do say things like that. But I don't think that's the experience of a lot of women who got caught up in Hefner's world.

Jagger may have slept with a lot of women but I doubt he was as depraved as hefner.

R58 I completely agree. I'm sorry that these women had a horrible time and Hef was probably as bad as everyone says he is here, but it feels like more of the Buyer's Remorse "MeToo" crap that's been overflowing in the media these days. I do not believe a single word from Holly Madison. That broad was trying to get him to father her kids for years, gaslighting my ass.

One of the women interviewed was a Playmate named Sondra Theodore, who was Hefner's "girlfriend" for a time. She was just his type: blonde, much younger, beautiful and bubble headed. None of the women involved with Hefner seemed to have anything approaching brains. She said he made tapes of the sex that went on the in Playboy Mansion. Some girls protested that they didn't want to be taped and he'd say ok but then he would tape them anyway. He'd tape visitors to the Playboy Mansion, the celebrities and athletes or whoever, fucking the dumb bimbos. What happened to those tapes? Were they destroyed? Or are they hidden away somewhere? It would be great if they came to light. What a great scandal that would be! It would be so hilarious to see those tapes.

Sondra Theodore is 65 now. Seeing the way she looks now is shocking. Her face looks like a skull. She obviously has had a ton of plastic surgery. That was another thing about the women in Hefner's circle; they tended to have a lot of work done, especially the requisite breast implants.

Sondra Theodore looked much older than 65. I kept on thinking she looked like a skeletal Carly Simon.

Miki Garcia is 74 and looked much better than Sondra. She could pass for late 50s or early 60s.

White women are very hard looking. What did you expect? And all of the cosmetic surgery dosen't help.

Another Playmate on Instagram claimed Sondra told her a few years ago that she was going to get even with Hefner. Apparently, she was pissed most of all that he dumped her for Shannon Tweed. The same Playmate said she was frequently in the PB mansion during the last two years of Sondra's relationship with Hef and said she never seen him do anything bad to her.

Barbi Benson's nose job is hideous.

The Playboy lifestyle was all about male fantasies and female submission. Sure, the women could have walked out the door, but most of them, at least in the 50s and 60s, had limited career opportunities. Dorothy Stratton was working in a Dairy Queen when she met her murderous future husband, Pamela Anderson suffered horrible sex abuse as a child and teen. It was a time when pretty girls without college education or career prospects were at the mercy of dominant or manipulative men. I can imagine more than a few of the women at the Playboy mansion experienced some kind of abuse or exploitation.

For all of Hafner's progressive ideas he was basically and creepy perv.

I always thought it was strange that Hefner had a suave, sophisticated persona but surrounded himself and dated ditzy blondes.

He made them become blond, chesty and overly made up. I wonder what his damage was. Surely it wasn’t because of girl he liked years ago; but, then again, serial killers have a type.

And in later years, projected the image of kindly rich older man, that young women can’t resist. He really was a master of manipulation, that was well-suited for the mid 20th century.

But, It’s no wonder he’s getting cancelled posthumous. He really was a creepy sex pervert. He couldn’t resist abusing women (like Linda Lovelace, who appeared to be slow - he could have put a stop to all that dog nonsense)

Pamela Anderson was discovered on a Jumbotron at a football game in Canada. Plenty of playmates from the 60s and 70s went on to have careers and a normal life.

Also sondra Theodore stayed in contact with Hefner and was on an episode of girls next door, also on Twitter someone asked hef if he was still in contact with her on 2014, he said he was and that she was supposed to come over for movie night but couldn’t make it.

Under cooper Hefner’s tweet about his dad there’s a number of people who worked at playboy over the years in various capacities and had nothing but good things to say about him.

Holly Madison said that the Pam Anderson jumbotron story is folklore and that most women become playmates by servicing Hef

Hef had an average sized dick according to Holly

While I was annoyed that the docuseries isn't going in chronological order, the end of last night's second episode gave away why they put Holly towards the beginning. Sondra's comment at the end saying Holly was with him when he was older is telling. She said she was with him when he was younger and more abusive/wild. So I predict the next several episodes will really get into the super disturbing stuff

the first episode featuring the former child Playboy Mansion resident was creepy as hell. How crazy that Hefner was like her second dad yet as an underage girl she ended up having a sexual relationship with both him (briefly) and his 20-something gf! That's insane

I will say whatever work Holly's had recently, she should stop right there. She looked really good in this docuseries. She doesn't look early 40s at all

any more surgery and she'll ruin her looks

She says in the interview at R71 that Kendra Wilkinson claiming in her book that she moved into the mansion without having sex with Hefner is bullshit and that women moved in only after fucking him

R73 Yeah I agree. Holly looks really good in the docu series. She is someone who has really made the most of her looks. She looks better now then she did in her twenties. I’d love to know everything she’s gotten done.

If you’re going to make up something r70 try to make it somewhat truthful. Anderson was spotted wearing a labbitts beer t shirt on a Jumbotron it got a ton of attention and and she was hired to do ads for them. That’s not folklore.

Kimberley cheated on him and during the years they were a couple the mansion parties were mostly small get togethers with friends and family. They separated after she stood him up for the New Years party he threw every year. The mansion was rented out for corporate events similar to an event center.

Looking at the interchangeable harem he has after Kimberley most of them were marginally attractive and a few were ugly. None of them stood out like barbi, Kim, or sondra were.

After Dorothy Stratten was killed Peter Bogdanovich came out with an awful book called "The Killing of the Unicorn", whereupon he renounced Hefner and the Playboy lifestyle, claiming that that Hefner used and abused poor little Dorothy and seduced her in a jacuzzi. He also said Hefner shared in the blame for her death. Of course Hefner was enraged at that and in retaliation he held a press conference accusing Bogdanovich of seducing Dororthy's little sister, claiming he would stay in hotels with her "just the two of them."

Bogdanovich's book was scoffed at by critics. It gushed inanely about the incomparable perfection that was Dorothy Stratten. And it was a blatant case of the pot calling the kettle black. Bogdanovich was a regular at the Playboy Mansion; that's how he met Stratten in the first place. He and Hefner were buddies. My guess is that he smeared Hefner to make himself look better. After all, it was HE seduced Stratten away from her marriage and later groomed and seduced her little sister. I suppose the book was an attempt to make Hefner look like the bad one. But they were both cut out of the same piece of cloth. I remember seeing them in a picture together, laughing to beat the band. They looked exactly like what they were: two slimeball sleazebags from from the seventies.

Also a lot of the older playmates are pissed because their photos were used to promote hard core pornography websites when Playboy turned over their web service and e-commerce over to the same company that ran brazzers. They were getting lumped in with models that were doing hardcore and extreme pornography. One woman who was a playmate in the late 70s, lost custody of her kids because her ex husband told the court she was unfit because she was a porn star and showed her 1970s playmate photo appearing on a brazzers affiliated porn site as proof.

I used to read a Playboy yahoo group because they had good gossip within the Playboy sphere as well as thoughts on the direction the magazine took. These were mostly subscribers too, some had been for decades. Most thought Hef looked ridiculous with his horde of plastic blonde clones (that most didn't find to be particularly attractive either) that were young enough to be his granddaughters.

He does have average sized penis. Some sex pics of him and another Playmate from the early 70s probably, surfaced online years ago. He wasn't even very good looking back then.

do we know why Hefner began only going for the blonde bimbo look? I see in the 70s and 80s he had a mix of blondes and brunettes

is it because of the big commercial success of 90s Anna Nicole Smith, Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy?

Dorothy Stratton was a blonde uneducated bimbo with good genes. She was a dime a dozen in Hollywood

Everyone took advantage of her, Hef, Peter, and that psycho husband. Wonder if he’s still alive?

The psyco husband killed himself at the same time he killed Dorothy. It was a murder suicide.

Oh that’s right, forgot he killed himself.

[quote] Dorothy Stratton was a blonde uneducated bimbo with good genes.

Judging from interviews she gave she seemed sweet and nice but not particularly interesting or intelligent. According to Bogdanovich's book she had a brilliant intellect (hah!). Nothing she did ever indicated she had any kind of acting talent, although of course she was quite beautiful. John Ritter, who played a role in "They All Laughed", said that if she learned to act (obviously she didn't know how to dot that) she might have had a career. But if she'd lived I don't think she would have been a successful actress. I think she would have just remained eye candy and the appendage of a rich man.

One of the sexiest parts of Playboy's Roller Disco & Pajama Party is when a guy in the roller skating chain holds onto the side of Jim Brown's ass in his short shorts while skating behind him

R85 ok I just watched the intro for that it’s funny how back then the host of a “family friendly” game show could also host something for Playboy and - no big deal.

And I recognized the guy in the Contact commercial as the snippy hotel desk clerk in Vacation - “NOT without a major credit card.”

Then I turned it off.

Care to share more of the gossip you read there, R79?

Bill Maher and Hugh Hefner look as though they could be cousins.

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Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt were misogynistic and definitely exploited young dumb women. Certainly a power imbalance. The issue I have with cancelling them is that while they were not the best towards their models, they did a lot for mainstream culture in terms of pushing social progress and protecting free speech. Certainly both of them were walking contradictions. Just like with Bill Cosby, horrible horrible man but did a lot for Black progress.

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I went to Crystal Hefner's Instagram and it was nice to see that she looks more natural and has a boyfriend who is close to her age.

Holly classified it as revenge porn but no where did she say Hefner or anyone else had threatened to post/release it. he took pics of women he was partying with on disposable cameras. Good for crystal for destroying it though.

One playmate from the 70s posted pics of sondra Theodore going to playboy events long after her and hef broke up, and questioned why she continued to come to parties and events Playboy/Hefner threw if she was abused as she claimed she was.

Antiques Roadshow

I’m sorry, I know most of women came out unscathed, but this entire bunny shit is demeaning.

Larry Flynt bought and distributed Blueboy and other gay magazines when no one else would when it was illegal to do so in most of the US, explored in depth in "Circus of Books"

And you can't deny the impact gay magazines and gay porn have had on your life and greater worldwide cultural acceptance

If you watch the first two episodes that are out, you’ll see that they didn’t completely trash Hugh Hefner. From the title I expected it to be just full off all the seedy, bad stuff, and was pleasantly surprised that they made a point to paint a more complete picture. They addressed the progress he helped promote when it came to free speech, African Americans being treated more as real individuals on television instead of just performers, promoting a sex-positive attitude in society, etc.

That’s not to say I’m some advocate for Hefner— I used to work with sexual abuse victims and I believe the women in the documentary. I do believe that most people are a mixture of good AND bad, and it seems like people these days have a hard time acknowledging that. Hef undoubtedly did some positive things for how sex was viewed and talked about in society AND what he did to these women was absolutely horrible.

Barbara Walters...

surprised no one here mentioned how Leon Isaac Kennedy was the one defending Hefner

Kennedy of course made a sex tape with ex wife Jayne and then somehow the tape got released during their divorce which ruined her career. There was fisting too

That stupid babbling Bunny at R94 STOLE the goddamn Bunny costume. Playboy Bunnies were NEVER supposed to take the costumes out of the club; they had to sign them out when they wore them while they were working and then sign them back. So the dumb twat is a thief. And the way she gushed about Hefner being "a class act!" The epitome of a dumb Bunny.

R98 - I’m sure it’s all downhill from here.

Calling out these men for looking at women as “commodities” is hilarious for a bunch of women who are only at this world-famous basically brothel for fame and money and only see the men as conduits to get where they want to go and what they want. Men biologically need to cum & spread seed, women find shelter and resources for their young or potential young, that’s at the core of all this. They’re all a bunch of animals playing into their instincts. Now that women have the ability to profit and get power by “revising consent”, that’s what they’re doing.

Why are they not calling out the FEMALE Playmate who was fucking Hefner’s Doctor’s daughter Jen when she was 15? She is a PEDOPHILE!!!! (According to the criteria of Fraus here) The documentary makers are protecting her identity, they’re complicit.

Jen Saginor is humorless butch D. She profited from a glowing book about playboy and now is profiting from this scathing documentary. She’s a dumbass for thinking Hef allegedly asking people not to talk to her is a “free speech” violation.

The Bunny Mother PJ Masten’s attempt at crocodile tears in E1 was hilarious “towards wo..men”. She tried hard to muster a sob. YOU WERE COMPLICIT, BITCH!!! You could have lost your job?! Arby’s was hiring. You were greedy and now are blaming men for every error you’ve made. Miki Garcia is another one that is full of shit. You both had no moral compass.

Holly Madison is the gold-diggin’ist gold digger whore to ever gold dig.

Holly Madison is an empty vessel.

“Glorified prostitution whores don’t think past clients paid them enough, now they’re crying rape!”

More at 11

Holly Madison aka Hollin Sue Cullen from Oregon is full of shit.

Women are always playing the victim.

Holly Madison has Asperger’s so DL should hate her

WHET that old crone that was Hef’s personal secretary? Did she ever get in on the celeb fuck orgies?

R113 Mary died

I’m excited to watch the Netflix documentary in 20 years after scary ass, creepy Holly goes full on Aileen Wuornos

Another MEN ARE EVIL, WOMEN ARE INFALLIBLE ANGELS production.

I like how they vilified the sex in the mansion yet did re-creation scenes of the sex

HOLLY MADISON YOU ARE A WHORE!!!!!!

Holly was a dog when she went into the mansion. Woof. She’s damn lucky for everything there. She’d be in an Oregon trailer park otherwise.

I’m not going to listen to women who talk in baby voices, spray paint their butt ugly faces, inflate their tits, can’t move their face from Botox, wear sparkly distracting jewelry, with bleached blonde hair and capped teeth to manipulate men talk about how men are manipulative liars.

Hahahaha “Hef would pit the girls against each other”

Yeah sure, Whores. Like women don’t fight each other constantly.

R104 it’s Carrie Leigh hefs girlfriend from the 80s. Jennifer changed her name to Kendall in her book, but it was easy to figure out who it was. Leigh then outed herself by threatening to sue. Jennifer had receipts and showed some of the redacted love letters Carrie Leigh wrote her and Carrie went silent.

Hefner reinvented his self as this cool Playboy because that bitch Betty Conklin rejected him. This is all a woman’s fault.

R122 yet another female Pedo escapes justice

Holly’s paranoia is creepy. Holly has serial vibes. She’s scary.

Holly seems like a sociopath

I've been to the house.

It's smaller than you would imagine. Tacky , cluttered and the old carpet smelled of mold.

My partner was a florist and he was hired to install Christmas trees. The whole place was like what a trailer park guy would do after he won the lottery.

The Beverly Hillbillys' house is on the same street.

Did Holly Madison, Bridget Marquardt and Kendra Wilkinson commit Elder Abuse by taking advantage of this elderly man?

Holly’s book cover is one of the worst I’ve ever seen

Holly acts like her book is on par with How to Win Friends and Influence People

[quote] Holly Madison has Asperger’s so DL should hate her

You must be the autism troll. You're a totally crazy cunt.

Kendra really tore Holly a new one on Twitter a few years back. Crude for sure, but she's the more honest of the two.

[quote]“Now Holly is on cover of People mag sayin she lived in fear at the mansion. She wasn’t in fear with that dick in her ass for a paycheck,” “That bitch is in fear now knowing so many of us saw her doing some nasty shit. She’s embarrassed and in shame. She was the clean up girl. Hollys job was to get Hef hard again and clean him up with her mouth.”

R131 not sure how you’re pulling that out, Holly admitted on it on the show and DL acts like they hate Aspies. ???? Maybe you should get an exam yourself.

R132 hahahahahaha HOLLY MADISON: PUSSY JUICE CLEANER

Or HOLLY MADISON: DOO-DOO EATER

Narcissism and borderline get misdiagnosed as Asperger's. So...

R132 Kendra is definitely not the more honest as she claimed that she didn't have sex with Hefner before she moved into the mansion and was unaware of group sex ever occuring, which is total bullshit

She only was accepted into that scene because of her overly bleached platinum blonde hair, ridiculous fake boobs She is not pretty at all and sucked off Hefner, the producers of Girls Next Door, and the mansion staff like a nympho

So Holly used to clean the fecal particles of other girls’ asses off Hef’s dick, with her mouth?

Dead Playmates

Well whatever Holly Madison did, she's independently wealthy today. She owns multiple homes and she doesn't have to sleep with ancient men anymore if she doesn't want to.

Her time with Hef and at the playboy mansion severed it's purpose.

I can't wait to see the finished renovation of the playboy mansion. I bet it's going to be beautiful. TMZ just showed photos the other day, of the house still under going a multi year gut renovation that it desperately needed.

I hop AD do a grand tour of the property once it's finally completed.

I doubt that Holly Madison has Asperger's Syndrome. I think she said that because she thought "People with Asperger's are smart. If I say I have it, people will think I'm smart, too!" Well, I doubt anybody things that she's "smart." She seems just like what she is: a dumb but shrewd bimbo who has sucked a lot of cocks in order to get rich.

R127 barbi Benton decorated it in a western/southwestern motif in the 70s and it wasn’t updated for over 40 years.

Jennifer confirmed that holly was a tattletale. She was friendly with one of the girlfriends who took a pair of hefs pajamas and was selling them on eBay. Holly found out, told hef and she was at a photo shoot when she was called and told to pack her bags and get out. Another girlfriend named Stacy Burke had done hardcore porn on a kink website and holly told hef about it and the girls voted to kick her out.

Holly Madison has self-diagnosed herself as having Asperger's, and if so, then she has a very mild case and is extremely high-functioning

She communicates appropriately during interviews and has for years without any indication of being on the spectrum

Self-diagnosed! People are really bad at self-diagnosing in general.

"Self diagnosed?" Yeah, right! She's full of shit.

[quote]Her time with Hef and at the playboy mansion severed it's purpose.

Did it sever it is purpose?

Sometimes you just make stupid decisions in life because you’re stupid.

They all received a $2K weekly allowance in cash while they lived at the playboy mansion.

So there's that.

Or they are 40+ married dudes who are addicted to porn and the porn keeps escalating. to trans porn.

^^^oops wrong thread

Love hearing all these bunny tales in ep 3.

I keep waiting for the dirt but it is not coming. None of this is new, is it?

This episode claims Don Cornelius raped and brutalized a few bunnies and nothing was done about it.

oh geesh, that holly was notorious for clawing her way to the top of hef's list of lovers....

I believe the allegations. Cornelius was charged with abuse by an ex wife too

a lot of celeb men thought the women were just sex objects and nothing more. The policies at Playboy didn't help. I'm sure word got around that the hospitals and police wouldn't be called if something happened

btw fucking dead at 1 of the women now living at The Villages in Florida. I'm sure most on DL know of that infamous shithole retirement home in Florida by now

I haven't read this whole thread yet but wanted to say that I remember seeing an episode years ago of The Girls Next Door where they filmed at the mansion's annual summertime party (maybe the 4th of July). Bill Maher was standing in the yard with a drink watching many women, including Hef's three girlfriends, going down one of those big slides they used to have at amusement parks for kids. Scantily clad grown women with their hair in ponytails were giggling and giggling going down the slide while Bill looked on. I've never taken Bill Maher seriously since seeing that. He seemed like such a douche. I didn't see Hef's world as sophisticated at all. He controlled dumb women, even giving them curfews and making them watch old musicals with him every week. Infantilizing human beings while having them undergo plastic surgery to look like blowup dolls is a strange existence.

Bill Maher has frequented sex workers for decades and is a top client of a woman nicknamed SUPER HEAD

Not anymore. Now he has settled for a woman who writes music and has been with her for the last 7 years.

I hope we don't only hear allegations against dead celebrities. So far we have heard about Hefner and Cornelius. I wish the producers had asked PJ Masten to give more examples of horrible VIP Playboy "clients". I'm sure Cornelius was not the only one who did something foul to the women.

R159 I'm sure he's TOTALLY faithful

It's not a secret that wealthy men and celebs frequented the Playboys clubs and the mansion because they were most likely going to get laid. Many would do it willingly if the guy was really rich, good looking or famous. I'm sure some rapes and assaults happened too though. Playmate Susan Kiger said in a newspaper article she did when promoting a movie she made that she was happy her 2 year contact expired so she wouldn't have to go back to the mansion parties. She said she got tired that of lot people there thought the Playmates were just there to be "passed around." She was one that totally dropped out of the public spotlight not long after that and never tried to monetize on her Playmate status. She did note that liked Hefner, though and thought he was a "swell guy."

Bill Maher, Scott Baio, Seth Green and James Caan were regulars at the pajama parties

"I’m not going to listen to women who talk in baby voices, spray paint their butt ugly faces, inflate their tits, can’t move their face from Botox, wear sparkly distracting jewelry, with bleached blonde hair and capped teeth to manipulate men talk about how men are manipulative liars."

Strange how men who are intellectually SO superior are so easily "manipulated" by silicone balls.

Holly has Assburger's Syndrome. She's too lazy to wipe.

[quote] Bill Maher was standing in the yard with a drink watching many women, including Hef's three girlfriends, going down one of those big slides they used to have at amusement parks for kids. Scantily clad grown women with their hair in ponytails were giggling and giggling going down the slide while Bill looked on

Lord, what a sight. But that was Hefner's style, the way he liked to live. He always seemed to have the mentality of an adolescent boy, amusing himself with childlike past times (roller skating, pool parties, costume parties) and always having his favorite food and drink (Pepsi and meat loaf).

Hef was an incel who struck it rich by exploiting women, and then proceeded to watch them humiliate themselves for a bit of money and fame.

R141: It's going to take time for the hazmat team to scrape off the nacreous layers of permacum that have accumulated for nearly 50 years. They should also demolish the grotto (which gave 100 guests Legionnaires' disease during one party) and start over.

^ My mistake—200 people were reported to have been infected. The grotto served bacteria stew. Double yuck.

[quote]This episode claims Don Cornelius raped and brutalized a few bunnies and nothing was done about it.

The claim is that Cornelius kidnapped the two girls and had them locked in separate rooms in his own home for days. The girls could hear each others' screams as each was anally raped with a wooden crucifix.

They were rescued by the Playboy mansion security and the police were kept out of it. Don Cornelius was never held accountable and continued to visit the mansion.

Maybe stories like this are why Cornelius shot himself.

Too bad Cornelius didn't shoot himself before he started drugging, raping/torturing people. Sounds like a real piece o.s..

So they all covered up those crimes, but why was Cornelius allowed back on Playboy properties? That's the question that needs answering. Was there some blackmailing going on, or what? Did Cornelius have some dirt? W.t.h.?

They drained all the water out of the pool during construction, so hopefully that killed whatever crap was floating in there.

The grotto is no more according to this article.

"And Just Like That" missed a epic opportunity of taking down Playboy and referencing their visit

I've been watching and it's very depressing. Creepy old guys trolling women with little self-worth who are looking for sugar daddies. The worst of twisted heterosexuality.

OK are we not going to talk about Sondra's house? Where does she live? Northern California? The peace sign on her rock door step had me hollering

500 former playboy employees and models signed a letter supporting Hefner and that their experiences were positive. A lot of them were there the same time as these ladies were. I mean I get the “well they weren’t there” argument, but couldn’t and shouldn’t that be applied both ways? Sondra had a friendly relationship with Hef for over 30 years. She was on the girls next door and someone asked hef if he was still friendly with her on Twitter, he said he was and sondra was supposed to be at movie night but couldn’t make it.

So many of these people in the stories and allegations are dead so it’s one sided.

Sondra was married to Ray Manzella who was married to robin mattson and dated Vanna White and Jenny McCarthy so he definitely has a type.

R177, it looks like some canyon in LA to me.

If Sondra was so repulsed by Hef and his actions, why did she want to be his girlfriend? For five years? Is anyone shocked that people were doing drugs in the 70s and 80s at the Playboy mansion? Hef was involved with many women but it seems only Sondra was wiling to go o camera and try to bring him down. Why is she so angry 40 years later?

Buyer’s remorse. IMDB says the next episode will be Sondra focused (so kind of chronological - moving from the 1970s deaths to the early 1980s) but she’s laid out a lot in press interviews. Definitely a public axe to grind and from her choice of interview outlet, she seems to have become conservative later in life….

Sondra looks so scary these days, not sure if I could stand to look at her for a whole hour.

There have been some people who've said they thought she was really in love with Hef though, like long-time staff photographer Pompeo Posar. But she did stay in contact with him for some time after they split. She even had her wedding reception with Ray Manzella at the Playboy mansion and Hef gave her away. So it is odd she changed her tune all these decades later.

I am watching this. The men and women interviewed pretend they were victimised or ignorant but they were all complicit. The only one who makes sense is the former chief gf who said she was afraid a deluge of revenge porn would be released if she ever tried to leave or expose them.

Like Weinstein, Epstein, and Brian Singer, Hef was a sleazebag and a con artist, but he really pulled it off. He lived life on his own terms. I wonder if he would have been nailed by MeToo, had he lived longer.

There was a book that came out years ago by an ex-bunny named Izabella St James. She wrote about life at the mansion and this series is nothing new.

I wonder whether Bobbie Arnstein committed suicide or was offed.

Izabella posted about the series on Instagram. They interviewed her but chose not to use any of it because she called out Holly on her lies and her opinions were "too complex & too nuanced" for what they were going for.

"I was asked to participate in an interview for the controversial docu series on A&E. I wasn’t sold on it at first, spoke to a producer for over an hour – an interesting thought-provoking convo to be sure, and then asked you guys what you thought I should do.

I was very clear with her that Holly was untruthful about a lot of the things she said, & a lot of the material seemed unfounded and suggestive of evil intent which simply was not true. My only reason for participating was to set the record straight, present a different logic & perspective, with nothing to gain. This was an unpaid interview directed by them, not me.

I was then told that my opinion was "too complex & too nuanced" & perhaps something they might revisit in the future.

So dear friends, the TRUTH IS COMPLEX. We must focus only on the narrative that is being sold. The media crafts & creates & sells us what they WANT.

There now exist many outlets for us to share the truth. If we want. Which I am not sure I do. My priority in life is the nonprofit I founded & the 160+ dogs worldwide that depend on me.

Blatant lies do bother me. So I will think about this more. For now, the 27 dogs I saved in China from the dog meat trade need me. 6 have died and others are fighting for the lives after rescue. The 68 dogs I already flew to Canada from China also need me, and the 70+ here - including an 8 week puppy we rescued who as sold in A BAG on the streets Mexico who is fighting for his life. So back to work!

But Thank You again for all your advice and wisdom. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. TBC.

Incidentally, I hate this photo of me a party at Nicolas Cage's house, but I posted it because the body language, and expressions, speak volumes."

holly kissed hef's ass to hell, she was loathed by many as she was gold digger supreme....creep. jus look at her.

None of these women are victims. They all knew what they we're doing and what type of environment they we're in. Not one of them are victims.

They all benefited in various ways. Thus whole thing is bullshit. No one held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to be apart of the playboy world. They chose to be there because they thought it was a fun glamorous world, and they we're all star struck and wanted to see what was in it for them.

None of these hoes are victims. They we're there because they wanted to be there, plain and simple.

To be fair, R187, one of the women interviewed said that some of the girls at the mansion were destitute. Being there was surely a step up from their other options - porn or prostitution.

Sondra Theodore looks exactly like Yolanda Hadid to me!

Just a bunch of old whores with slut remorse who have aged out of the skin game. Now they want play the victim and try to cash in and maintain some relevance by hitching their wagons to the me too movement.

there is something to be said that Hefner was a middle aged man manipulating barely legal girls. Did they have the choice to decline and leave? Yes but they thought if they did what he wanted they would get what they wanted. Eventually they realized he only cared about getting what he wanted.

In some pics Sondra looks like she could have been the older sister of Pamela Anderson

the stuff about Hefner and the dogs was really upsetting

clearly he was a sociopath

Poor Sondra, showed up at the mansion at 19 and spent the night with Hef. Her choice. The most ridiculous interview. With every claim and accusation I just wanted to ask her, "Why did you stay if it was so offensive?" She was complicit. If she is as damaged as she claims to be after 40 years, she needs some serious therapy.

I think it's the same way prostitutes get hooked - they become addicted to the money, or in this case, a luxurious lifestyle. The drugs made it endurable, just as for prostitutes.

Also Sondra continued to attend mansion parties and movie nights long after she stopped dating hef.. she even made an appearance on the girls next door show.

R184, according to this article, she had attempted suicide before. (This story is riddled with spelling errors, and a bit hard to follow, but interesting).

These women were damaged before they ever stepped foot in the mansion or met Hef. He had his own issues for sure. His stable was just a very famous example of a story as old as time.

They were young and dumb and at the time probably thought they were living the high life. Later on it dawned on them that they were bring used and treated like whores. Well, tough titty. If they weren't underage then it was their choice to be a sperm receptacle for Hef and his buddies. And there are a lot of former Playboy Playmates/Bunnies who say that life in the Playboy mansion was pure fun and excitement. Dumb twats. Hefner and his lifestyle was repulsive. Any female who would willingly become one of his playthings would have to have been clueless or mercenary. I'm sure a lot of them thought their association with Hef would lead to wealthy and fame. Poor Dorothy Stratten had dreams of being a movie star. And look how well THAT turned out.

I'm wondering how much Hefner's staff got paid? I mean I certainly couldn't have been around all that disgusting perversion and sexual coercion. I wouldn't have been able to sleep well. It's interesting how many former employees are speaking in this documentary

I wish Barbi Benton would make an appearance.

I don't think I'm going to continue watching - the director of this doc said that Sondra Theodore's interview was the lynchpin of the whole thing and she came off like nothing more than a dumb whore. A man fucks your dog and you don't immediately leave him? It's also slimy she maintained a friendship with him for decades following their relationship and only decides to tell on him after he's dead.

A lot of these women, from googling, seem to have become born again Christian types. Sondra and Miki Garcia both reference the devil in their recent interviews for FOX (LOL). Tale as old as time in many ways. Also, all the big gossip was spilled in the DM articles from a month ago, so what's the point of still watching? They're not even acknowledging many of the huge celebrities that were friends with Hef like Jack Nicholson, Warren Beatty, and James Caan, or even the long dead ones like Robert Evans, who all are frequently mentioned in so many Hollywood Hooker tell-alls.

R199 Barbi was the one who told Hugh to get the mansion! I think she'd feel pretty attacked or uncomfortable in a doc that describes the place she convinced her ex-boyfriend to buy as literal hell on Earth. Or maybe she did participate and the director cut it out of the doc because it was "too" nuanced, like that one girl who was there at the same time as Holly Madison and apparently totally disproved most of Holly's stories.

Since this is a goss site, I always heard that much if not all of the permanent male staff were gay. Problem solved.

Barbi stayed friends with Hef. These ladies were playmates and/or worked in the playboy club and were there when sondra and Miki Garcia were there and said they were treated well.

Something else that went against the narrative was the African American bunny they interviewed who said she was treated well promoted within the company and made sure the customer that attacked her was banned from the clubs.

R202 I'd honestly like to hear their takes more! Do you think Hugh hired them for the same reason as the women (so they would fuck him)? There's been much made recently of Hugh's strong interest in gay porn as well as his romantic relationship with the father of one of the very young Playmates.

I've been watching the Girls Next Door (barf) only because I like Holly Madison's recaps and I had completely avoided it while it aired originally. Kendra Wilkinson is possibly the most annoying person I have ever seen on TV and her constant machine gun laugh makes me wish they offered a Kendra-free option. I fast-forward through all her scenes.

As far as the staff members shown at the mansion, they seem to be straight men of all races in their thirties and forties, primarily Latino, with some longterm older female secretaries. I haven't seen one employee who seems the slightest bit gay

Some of Sondra's claims seem far-fetched to me. Him fucking the dog and him asking her to watch snuff porn. And her stories about him having her fuck other guys as he watched doesn't go along with stories of his other main 'steadies'. They were not allowed to have sex with other men under any circumstances. The archival footage they showed of Barbi Benton talking about the 'no other men rule' contradicted Sandra claims, although they used it to paint him as a control freak. I do believe her claims about him getting her to have sex with other women and being the ringleader of the sex parties. I found it funny how she claimed to be so traumatized yet kept in touch with him for many years after that and kept many scrapbooks from that time around.

Also so many of these people are dead- hef, Linda Lovelace, Don Cornelius, hefs personal secretary, bobble arnstein, etc…Other than Cosby no other living people are accused of anything.

Other than Bridget most of the other blonde girlfriends he had in the aughts all hated holly.

Vincent bugliosi’s wife wrote that they were friends with Hef for 50 years said she never saw or heard anything about the tapes sondra claimed she saw.

I think sondra brought her kids to the mansion. I mean the accusations seem to get more and more out there.

Typical DL blabbering: very young women must be held accountable whereas the middle aged men who use and abuse them aren’t.

No one goes into this world without being damaged. Oh sure, from the outside it seems titillating and glamorous. It isn't. Once you realize what you're into you already should've been long gone.

Barbi Benton appeared on THE GIRLS NEXT DOOR - I think they all went to her house or something. She looked great and was very friendly, married to some rich guy.

sondra is gross and prob a liar, funny how u can hear her false teeth clacking away when she talks.......honey u knew where the exit was !!

I think part of it was that Hef has always seemed charming and reasonable. Someone said that he could make you feel like you were the only person in the world. He was a born pimp.

It seems like Hef may have been into minors and zoophilia. Extreme sex addict.

I've been watching. It's depressing and creepy, very Jeffrey Epstein-ish.

The culture was changing at the time from an uptight old-fashioned marriage scene to "love the one you're with." What was happening at the mansion was happening all over American. Formerly proper people shed their inhibitions' and jumped into the promiscuity pool. Many tried it once or twice, some went on for years.

I have a female friend who did orgies for a year or so with her partner after a divorce. She came to regret it and her experience wasn't uncommon.

Holly Madison wearing a "schoolgirl" type outfit. Preppy pullover with mini skirt, thigh stockings and combat boots. She's 42. Combined with her formerly self-confessed obsession w Disney princesses this is a fine example of arrested development, surely. Hef and Playboy didn't cause this.

I believe Sondra lives in Crestline California. I had to put on subtitles to understand her.

I can’t imagine having to cleanup after their orgies. That poor guy.

I believe a lot of depraved things happened there and Hef hated himself and women. He got off on the humiliation of his pretty objects.

His Pig Night was cruel. I mean rounding up hookers (who have low self esteem to begin with), feed them a nice meal then rate them in front of everyone? It’s like be nice to them and make them feel special, then go in for the kill. So fucked up.

Here’s a pic of Barbi Benton:

Did I understand correctly that his male guests had their blood drawn and then a girl would give them a bloody hand or blow job?

I'm not typically squeamish but if they're into bestiality by the 5th aptly titled 'Circus' episode I'm preparing both my gag reflexes and stomach for the rest of the series.

I had a roommate who had very interesting parents, dad was CFO of a MAJOR fortune 100 companies, her mom was a former bunny and they'd met at a PB club, they took us out a few times and were a seemingly great couple.

Also had another roommate whose father was an accountant of Hefners, which landed me a bunch of signed movies by their directors. Gotta love the blend of people you inadvertently become acquainted with in school.

People judging Sondra have clearly never been in intoxicating but ultimately toxic relationships.

Benton needs to give up trying to look sexy. R216's photo does not flatter. Benton was cute but that nose. Oy.

How many episodes is this series?

I thought Sondra lived in Ojai..

Looks like she lives in a home worth 1.5 million.

Sadly Barbi had an eye job very similar to Tori Amos.

R218 I've had a few toxic boyfriends, and at some point, you have to take ownership of your decision to stay in a relationship if you're not being forced to. It doesn't seem like Sondra was being beaten and threatened with harm if she left. I can give her a pass for not immediately leaving him, she was 19, whatever. But she continued on communicating with him as a fully grown adult woman up until his death. She got MARRIED at his mansion. Her suddenly coming out with all this shit about Hugh makes her look like a bitter old lady who can't take responsibility for her own decisions. She comes off as not only stupid, but immature.

Watching the 5th episode. Agree that Sondra comes off as a little dim-witted. She really had that fresh faced beauty that was popular at the time. She sorted had a Patti Hansen look.

In each episode, Hugh come off as slimy and sleazy man. Yuck

Miki Garcia said last night that she was raped by a familiar actor from a familiar show. She said that it was one of those weekend autograph type shows where people had their own tables set up for the fans. This actor had his own table. She said he was a friendly guy and she trusted him until he raped her. Any ideas? Early 70s - Bob Crane? But he is dead so I think she would have named him. She would have named Bill Cosby too. Any ideas?

R225 The alleged consensus is Redd Foxx. They were at the car show together. Allegedly

It's so gross what these women endured and so naive too that they didn't realize what they were into and just wanted to work, make money.

Playboy should have been shamed and cancelled after Dorothy Stratton’s rape/murder. I know, I know, the psycho ex-husband did it.

Dorothy was very young and naïve. She was a big deal way back then and her sudden fame must have enraged the ex. Somebody in the Playboy world should have coached and mentored her. And yes, this isn’t something corporations get involved with. But, Playboy was peddling female flesh and they should have coached these women about the dangers.

Miki Garcia sent a old-fashioned memorandum to Hef about Paul Snider (ex-husband). How he was a pimp and drug dealer. And I betcha he was very scary in person.

After hearing the stories from the women in leadership roles, the whole culture was toxic and abusive to women

It's ironic that corporations looove to pretend they look after and mentor their employees. They don't. Everyone is replaceable. In the Playboy world the stakes are much higher of course, but I have seen many people abused and traumatized in the workplace. Discarded after years of loyalty and good work, and keeping their yaps shut.

R229 Yes. I think people wind up traumatized, as you put it, because they expect that if they play by the rules they will be rewarded. Or at least treated with gratitude and support. Then one day after 10 or 20 years has passed the reality hits. Americans are told to give up everything for their jobs but I think the younger folks are finally waking up to what a completely bad deal US work culture is.

Poor Dorothy had it bad in every corner - Snyder, Hefner and Peter Bogdonavich. All older than her and alpha male ego maniacs. At 20 girls (at least back then) wanted to please and not make waves. All three of those men wanted complete control of her. Now I wonder if she had to sleep with Hefner, also ……… Redd Fox - OMG - awful.

She definitely slept with Hefner. It was mandatory if they wanted to be playmate of the year

The whole bunny and playmate vernacular sounds so dumb, antiquated, and degrading now.

Stratten didn't have to do anything. She was controlled. But she allowed herself to be pimped out by her husband and she gladly slept with Hefner and later the hideous Bogdonavich for "career" advancement. She played the game. And lost.

Playboy mansion life was gross for playmates and wanna be playmates. And that was always known. No matter how it was marketed. The bestiality claims have been round for years. Bette Midler read Hefner for filth the day he died. Lots of others tried before. But he was the benevolent free speech advocate in the ridiculous pajamas. With all those blonde bimbos and SUPERSTARS on the cover of his magazine.

Barbi Benton was more a kinky bitch PIMP than a victim. She's the Ghislane Maxwell of the operation. There were several.

Dorothy Stratten was collateral damage. Many more living women have suffered worse. RIP.

What did Bette Midler say r233?

Sondra got married at mansion and brought her kids there. I mean if he was the abuser and did what she said why did she maintain a friendship with him for over 35 years.

but if Miki's rapist was Redd Foxx why not name him since he died 30 years ago?

surprised no comments yet about Marilyn Grabowski

Oof r237. She looked like a freak and kinda scary. She strikes me of a predator and would aid and abet the men in wrong-doings

Grabowski looked like anorexic Tom Petty in the pics. I can't believe she's still alive today.

She’s an ugly Joni Mitchell

so how did Anna Nicole Smith, Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy avoid living at the Playboy mansion and becoming his playthings? I don't know anything about the 90s period when those 3 peaked with the magazine but all were able to parlay it into mainstream stardom

Hugh Hefner needs to be brought back to life so he can be properly cancelled. And then killed again. Hugh Hefner is an epic POS.

What makes you think he didn't fuck them r241? Jenny McCarthy had a particularly cozy relationship with Hef. She is barely even attractive - but appeared in the magazine many times. She was always promoting herself. If he wanted her - had her. If he wanted to give her to friends, they had her.

Anna Nicole was not exactly an innocent. So much so that I don't think even Hugh Hefner would want to fuck her. She always smelled of formaldehyde.

Pam Anderson is a bit different. She fucked who she wanted. And some she didn't.

R243 there's no way Hefner would have crowned Anna Nicole Smith Playmate of the Year and devoted additional covers and photo spreads without her submitting to him and fucking him

Must suck to be Jenny. Sold her soul for fame the cheap and whorey way.

Meanwhile, cousin Melissa… actual hard work and talent that paid off.

Even Robin Leach admitted to fucking Anna Nicole Smith!

Jenny, Pam and Anna Nicole were during the years he was married to Kimberly and the parties at the mansion were small black tie events for friends and family. Anna Nicole was already a guess girl when she got playmate of the year. Jenny McCarthy walked into the playboy offices in Chicago did a Polaroid tear and was Miss October a few days later.

Sondras ex husband is Ray manzella who managed McCarthy when she first hit the scene. He also managed kim Alexis, Pamela Anderson, vanna white and Suzanne sommers.

The guys found entertainment in making Linda Lovelace perform beastiality with a dog? Whether she was paid or forced, they didn't have rights to degrade a fellow human being to that extent. Beyond depravity.

I know the bunnies/Playmates/girlfriends were not completely innocent, but.....

Hef had the tapes destroyed. Yeah, I can understand why.

Nice try R247. Jenny appeared six times in playboy - from the age of 19 to 39. She called them when she needed them - and offered it up. She likes kink and degradation. The playboy story can't be told without whores. Jenny McCarthy was a whore.

I used to think Jenny McCarthy was the unworthiest to be in Playboy (cute but not hot) until Kendra Wilkinson, who embodies every bratty girl/teenager, entitled obnoxious co-worker with her grating voice, laugh and unbearable energy

Jenny did four playboy spreads r249. Her initial playmate layout, the playmate of the year layout, one in 2005 and another in 2012. The rest were outtakes from the first 2 layouts she did for Playboy and were published when she was on singled out. I’m sure their archives have thousands of unreleased photos of McCarthy.

I’ve been stalking some of the social media pages playmates who were around that time. One of the bunnies claims that PJ told her at a reunion that if she wanted to get in on the bill Cosby accusations she needed to do so real quick. The bunny told her she never met Cosby and PJ told her it didn’t matter. Another said she was there when PJ was a bunny mother and the girls didn’t like her. Another chimed in and wondered why PJ and Sondra’s social media pages were filled with playboy oriented things if it was such an awful experience.

Jenny and Kendra could be sisters. Kendra is smarter.

Kendra has ripped holly on a number of occasions. Izabella another ex girlfriend who was there the same time as holly but left before the girls next door show hit said she was interviewed for the doc but thinks they didn’t use her interview because it didn’t fit their narrative that holly was a victim.

Remember the olden days when Jenny McCarthy was the only anti-vaxxer in the world and everyone gave her shit about it...

Holly has responded to Kendra every time and pointed out her bullshit when she said she didn't have sex with Hef and was unaware of any group sex going on

Biggest slut title goes to Holly Madison, the no. 1 girlfriend. Kendra spoke out about holier than thou, Holly, when Madison started publicly dissing a newly deceased Hefner One of Holly's bi-weekly orgy duties was to keep Hef aroused, in between his bouts of anal sex w/ the others. She would repeatedly "orally clean" Hef so that he was ready for the next girl to ride him.

Holly to the other girlfriends, "Don't eat that. Remember, I eat what you ate."

Most gay men know you never go the anal to oral route. Poor Holly.

For R234, Bette Midler's fabulous o[italic]bitch[/italic]uary of Hefner.

He made her earn her keep. And upkeep with all of the boobjobs, nose jobs, eye lifts, calf implants, rib removals, teeth buckles, fillers, chin implants, north&south hair bleachings, anal bleachings, hoof sandings, skin peels, std treatments, poise classes, poise pads, lip injections, contacts, wart removals, vag and anal rejuvenations, shock treatments, leather gear, recreational drugs, etc....

Holly, Holly, Holly!

All of these women with their crocodile tears...either they were pimps and enablers like Hef himself, or they have slut's remorse, or both.

I don’t buy any of this.

This is 80’s Steinem feminism all over again. Because of #MeToo, we are re-living the era of when the feminists brought Linda Lovelace out where she said she was held at gun point during Deep Throat, which was a lie according to every single person she knew during that time.

Hugh is dead so it’s time to sensationalize. It’s just like Wade Robson and Michael Jackson. Once Wade stopped making money off of praising Michael Jackson, he tried to make money by saying Michael Jackson raped him.

Yeah, and they make a point to tell viewer that Playboy now employs an 80% female staff. Is it okay if women degrade other women?

This doc has been a huge letdown for me. Nothing new has been revealed, and all of these old whores need to just stop. They knew what they were doing.

R256 Kendra's full of shit and looks like a crackhead porn actor

I'm sure if you asked most of the women that posed for Playboy if they felt degraded, even today, most would say no. For many, it gave them opportunities they never would've had otherwise. Notice even Sondra. Holly and Miki never said they regretted posing for the magazine.

It wasn't a prerequisite to sleep with Hefner to get in the magazine. It was a business, first and foremost.

Thanks r258

I've read that most Playmates did not go on to have successful careers in entertainment or otherwise. I've also read that many were short along with being big busted, and did not look as glamourous in person without massive make up and hair.

My sister had a friend who was a Playboy bunny in San Francisco. She was pretty with a great figure but not tall. When I met her when she was in her twenties, seemed jaded, especially about sex. I remember she said she was a virgin when she married and wondered why women were told to wait for marriage, sex was boring and no big deal. I have no idea what happened to her but I imagine a divorce and possibly a career in real estate.

Not a lot became big stars like Pamela, Anna Nicole and Jenny, but some others had decent to good acting careers like Shannon Tweed, Claudia Jennings (until her untimely death), Karen Witter and Kelly Monaco. Others attended college or started their own businesses (some successful, some not), and other settled down and married and had kids. The media usually just focuses on ones that died in sordid ways.

Some like Lisa Matthews and Karen Witter also landed rich boyfriends or husbands. Lisa dated Joel Silver for most of the 1990s and Karen Witter was married to Chuck Lorre for a while.

Kendra Wilkinson is def not book smart. But seems she passed her CA real estate exam so good for her!

so the docuseries this week covered the story linked at R89

Good la times article about the discord and division the series has caused among playboy alumni. Sondras kids were blindsided when she started talking about this and wondered why she took them to the mansion throughout their childhood.

I watched it. He was obviously a freak on a power trip. What 90 year old men wants to be surrounded by vapid 20 year old blonds? At some point you want something more out of life. Someone who isn’t two-dimensional.

this week was the juiciest in terms of identifying Playboy mansion regulars

Bill Cosby, Tony Curtis, John Huston, Roman Polanski, Jim Brown, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Wilt Chamberlain

no accusations in this episode regarding Schwarzenegger and Chamberlain but all the others mentioned yes

I didn't know how terrible Jim Brown is. Multiple people in this episode allege he physically assaulted the women dislocating jaws, breaking ribs etc

PJ Masten says Cosby raped her too and she became a suicidal cutter

Polanski alleged to have been with multiple underage girls same with Cosby

And now Cosby is free and will remain so...

R275 of all the cases the partisan hacks on the Supreme Court wanted to overturn of course they didn't touch the Cosby case!

[quote] Playboy should have been shamed and cancelled after Dorothy Stratton’s rape/murder. I know, I know, the psycho ex-husband did it.

Peter Bogdanovich said that it was Hefner's fault Dorothy Stratten was killed. He said Paul Snider killed her because he was enraged that Hefner had banned him from the Playboy mansion. He said Snider had no problem with Dorothy leaving him; it was being banned from Hefner's world that drove him over the edge. He considered himself blameless for Dorothy's demise.

I think Hefner was probably a depraved piece of shit but he is hardly to blame for Stratton's murder for banning that freak ex-husband of hers from the property. Bogdanovich should blame himself for enraging her ex-husband by dating her by that logic.

Surprised nobody talked about James Caan - he was there all the time; I think he even married a playmate or something.

James Caan had a long term relationship with some Playmate, I can't remember her name. He's an asshole. In a Playboy interview he stated that a woman's place was "in the home, at least until the kids are grown." He said he knew he might get criticized for saying that but stated that the majority of women he knew agreed with him. I guess that's because the majority of the women he knew were Playboy bimbos.

Cosby, Polanski and Jim Brown all have convictions for rape or domestic violence which makes the chances of them suing or disputing the allegations less likely. The rest of them are dead and can’t refute the allegations.

Caan doesn’t have a legal record of domestic violence or sexual assault so there is a possibility of being sued.

One of the bunnies commented that Miki doesn’t actually shed tears when she appears to be crying.

PJ (the one that said Cosby raped her) said in the times article that being a bunny was the greatest thing she ever did. You would think it was the worst thing she ever did watching the series.

Hey. Two things can be true at the same time for someone. I know, I know. Tough concept for the lower iq crowd to grasp.

tonight's 90s episode was gross hearing about the creepy Bernie Cornfield, Peter Nygard and then the doctor Saginor

I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter is right and Hefner/Saginor did have a gay relationship

omg kinda disturbed and pissed at the doctor's daughter for telling that story about Paulina/Polina. So she saw her dead at the party and then didn't follow up with it? Then when her father came to ask about her months later she denied knowing the girl? Trash! I hope the father isn't finding out about his daughter through this docuseries

R280 There is nothing bimbo about women staying home to make sure they aren’t raising ungovernable heathens.

Most families can't survive on one income any more, so staying home isn't an option.

That last episode was hair-raising.

In addition to the story about Paulilna/Polina it was upsetting to hear from Anna Nicole Smith's friend that even at age 30 she was still living in the "shadow mansions" and being a pass-around.

I want to know what Kimberly has to say, and WHAT did that woman to to get Hefner to choose to marry her. (Not implying she's ugly, but she must be able to suck a golf ball through a garden hose while keeping an epic philandering cooze hound in check).

Don't think we're hearing from her in this one (if any doc bc of her having Hefners youngest son).

The daughter of the Dr was as much a victim as that girl she 'didn't ' see. She was raised by skarks and was eventual prey herself so as fucked up as her lying, I can understand why it happened. Her father is up there with Ryan O'Neal in the 'Top Dad' department.

Next week is the last official episode where I think the bomb about Hefner drugging and raping women himself is told - it was implied in the critical LA Times review that said the problem with the doc was that it took too long to get to Hef’s actual crimes. He’s been portrayed as the man the public figured he was the entire series.

There’s two more episodes that have been added, just filmed in an informal talk show type setting. Two with the twins from the Girls Next Door who didn’t speak during the series, and one with Sondra, Miki, and some other women discussing the impact of the documentary.

Kimberly was one of the people who signed the letter in support of Hefner. It’s around a thousand people who worked for playboy in various capacities or were friends with him. Bryant the butler from the girls next door worked at the mansion for 18 years and said holly was full of shit. Another former girlfriend Izabella said she was interviewed for the documentary but her interview wasn’t used and she speculated that it wasn’t used because it debunked holly being a victim.

I would be interested in what the twins have to say. They weren’t there very long and they were messes before getting involved with playboy. One of them claimed hef got her pregnant when he was 83. However, one of the reasons hef and holly broke up was because he was willing to have a baby with her but fertility tests he did showed his sperm was no longer viable.

Also still no comments from barbi Benton or Shannon tweed who were his girlfriends before and after sondra Theodore, or Christie Hefner who ran the company into the ground.

Carrie Leigh who was his girlfriend in the 80s before Kimberly hates Hef but won’t say a word because she’s the one that had an affair with Jennifer saginor and when Jennifer’s book came out Carrie threatened to sue until saginor produced the love letters Carrie Leigh had written her.

Barbi Benton probably won't comment. She stayed friends with him and ended up marrying some rich guy.

I like Miki. I think what it would be like to be a woman in the 70s/early 80s in her situation

These women had zero power. There was no “woke-ism”, no nothing.

I have been to the mansion circa 1990s. Rundown, creepy, freakish. Fake people and much like a Scientology cult. So much control. I’d run into Kimberly now and then. She looked unhealthy and rough. She was always pleasant, super nice and well spoken but had an empty vessel air about her. Like she had been drained of her real self. Seemed like a fucked up lifestyle. Even though some of the documentary interviews seemed like screwballs, I believe them.

Kimberly left hef in late 97, she cheated on him and the mansion parties revved up again in 99 though the mid aughts. From the time he married until they split parties at the mansion were black tie events with people mostly hef”s age (Vincent and Gail bugliosi were good friends of hefs and Gail has defended hef). There was 2 women who were playmates during that time that said you didn’t try to speak to hef because Kimberly would have you blacklisted.

I almost thought the extremeness of those parties was a fuck you to Kimberly for cheating and leaving him. Kimberly dated Quincy Jones for a time.

what kind of person is Shannon Tweed to go from Hefner to Gene Simmons? Yuck

R289 I agree Saginor's daughter is a victim too but the incident with that eastern European model dying happened in the late 90s and by then the daughter would have been around 30. Don't most people in their 20s eventually realize some things they were raised to believe are wrong? Her case is extreme of course but she was still an adult. It's not like in the early 80s when she was a teenager and Hugh and Carrie had sexual relations with her

I think all of the women mentioned who haven't been heard from where there's interest is because they are going to be in the Amazon Prime series. So far it's much more comprehensive of the beginning and evolution but the tone is diametric to the other because his children are interviewed and involved in the series.

Interesting to see the beginning but I'm only an episode into the Amazon series. Hard to forget about the last damning series on A&E

wait there's an Amazon series too?

R298 I was under the impression she was somewhat younger at the party bc she was referred to as 'kid' , but in an insular world of drugs, secrecy and privilege I think her awakening came later in life than for most.

R300 I was surprised too, its all a bit much but it's such a complete puff piece by comparison it's laughable.

[quote]what kind of person is Shannon Tweed to go from Hefner to Gene Simmons?

A smart and lucky woman.

Jesus, watching episode 9.

What the fuck with that girl Paulina. Did they ever find her dead body?

I like the fat women putting Saginor on the spot saying “how old were you”. Saginor had to be in her 30s when that incident happened. Not exactly a kid, even if she was insulated.

Ewww r302

I wish they’d explored more of the angle of Hef’s homo leanings. It seems very plausible he and Doctor Saginor were lovers, plus I think one of the girls mentioned him putting on gay porn to get off.

R292, Christie ran the company into the ground? I thought internet porn killed Playboy.

R306 Christie purchased Jenna Jamesons website club Jenna for $20 million and a short time later Jameson announced her retirement from performing which made the website almost worthless.

Hef ran the magazine into the ground by putting his girlfriends in the magazine the tipping point being Tina Jordan who is the definition of a butter face.

I don’t think Hef was really gay. Maybe a little bi. But no gay guy bothers with all that. Who has the energy.

Tell us more, R295.

R302 = Gene Simmons

(No one else would think that.)

Well he did wander around the house all day in his pyjamas, like the average DL eldergay, so maybe he was.

Hefner's world and the people who inhabited seem ghastly. The girls seemed brain dead. "The Playboy lifestyle" seems so pathetic and gross. But at one time it was seen as enviable.

I remember a Playmate called Star Stowe (real name Ellen Louise Stowe). Not exactly beautiful, she did have a cute, round face and the requisite long blonde hair (Hefner preferred blondes) and Playmate body, although she didn't have much in the way of boobs. She posed with a Rickenbacker guitar for her centerfold (she was a groupie). For a while she was Gene Simmon's girlfriend and she can be seen in publicity pictures with Kiss where she seems to be wearing a barely there little girl dress while they grope her.

Her glory days as a Playmate didn't last long. At the age of 30 she moved to Florida to be an "exotic dancer." She married, had a son, divorced. She shipped her son off to live with her mother. She became a prostitute and drug addict.

Gene Simmons lost contact with her, but eventually thought he'd try to hook up with her again. When he enquired about her whereabouts he was told she has "passed away." Passed away? She was MURDERED. She was last seen hooking on the streets in "her old neighborhood"; she was found partially nude and strangled three days before her 41st birthday. Her murder was never solved. What a sad story. I wonder if Playboy ever remarked on her "passing?" Probably not.

R312, just read about Star Stowe. Sad story.

^Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

wow that Star Stowe story is horrible. I'm surprised the A&E docuseries didn't mention it

Mrs. Alec Baldwin the first.

Here is a good write up on Star Stowe's fate.

Her death was acknowledged by playboy and was reported on in the magazine and in the playmate retrospective book. She died 20 years after she was a centerfold, tragic, but I don’t think playboy was to blame for her downfall.

They coulda left but chose to stay and collect the $$$$ so stop bitchn and moaning donna, etc

I've decided that Sondra's oversized chair with the little pompoms is annoying and impractical. Looks like an art project.

[quote] She died 20 years after she was a centerfold, tragic, but I don’t think playboy was to blame for her downfall.

Becoming involved in the sleazebag world of Playboy probably helped shape her destiny. If she'd taken a different path she might still be alive. But I guess being a small town girl she thought posing nude for Playboy would be a ticket to the good life. Didn't turn out that way. A pity.

I agree R318. Between features, covers, centrefolds and playmates of the month - all fucking alien to me btw - there had to be thousands of women who posed for Playboy. The ones who made it a lifestyle or who were victimized in their climb for success are of more interest and curiosity than a one time poser. Star Stowe could literally be most anyone. All violent death is sad, but drug addicted street prostitutes are probably more at risk, ya know?

Star Stowe was a stripper, drug addict and prostitute. Who once posed for playboy. Her death is sad, but unsolved deaths of women on the street happen everyday. Today and yesterday. Right this moment. She gave away her own kid. She made choices that have nothing to do with being involved with Playboy. She never met Hefner or visited his gross home. The culture of this magazine vs what it promoted is more interesting.

Gay porn stars of the 70s, 80s and 90s don't exactly prove to the lie that sex work is victimless.

The focus should be on the private degradation of these women that Playboy championed and Hefner's culture that promoted and profited from them. Inside and out the Playboy mansion. Times change. Women can realize that they were victimized, just as gay men can see later in life that other gay men took advantage of them when they were young and hot and horny. Both things can exist at once and in one lifetime. Many gay men are ashamed of this facet of life. Most try not to visit it on other young horny boys.

Hefner's fixation on having women fucked by dogs was well known for instance. But not every bitch is gonna agree to that. And they sure aren't going to go public with it 40 years later, Barbi Benton.

He raped me too!!!!! Destroyed my life and career!!!! I’ve never recovered and demand justice for what he did to me!!!!!!!!

Time’s Up, Asshole.

(What did you say his name was again?)

Some of these women were already damaged.fr. sexual abuse when growing up and/or also had mental illnesses which do not display until someone os in their early 20s or may be triggered by trauma or drug use. So it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Not everyone who did playboy ended up being abused or trafficked. Many did. But for sure the organization knowingly set up a system whereby abuse and trafficking was acceptable. That Jim Brown shit was horrific. And then I read his wikipedia page. Oy vey!

Agree with r324

Star Stowe was a stripper before she posed for Playboy. She returned to stripping after her brief fame and marriage. Playboy was just a stop in between.

I remember the issue she was in, because my dad subscribed to Playboy at the time. I believe she was a “groupie”, and probably no stranger to the drug scene and the disgusting ways that women in that situation were treated.

Being involved with Playboy probably helped Star Stowe along her road to ruin. It sure didn't help her any.

Side Note on the Shadow Mansions. They mentioned Bernie Cornfield at Grayhall Mansion. He dated Victoria Principal (Dallas star) from 1968 to 1970 while she struggled to be a model. Looks like some of those abused women were able to endure and be successful in the biz.

The idea that Victoria principal was abused is laughable r328. A party girl that got lucky.

Victoria Principal has made it into quite a few memoirs and dirty gossip over the years. I don't think she was abused. She never got all she wanted, but she sure made it all available. Not only in private either.

Such as, r330?

I was being a bit cheeky facetious about the lovely Miss Principal. Abused? I think not. She probably wore the strap on.

A 90s blind item about a regular having a three-way with a playmate and his son in the grotto at the mansion turned out to be James and Scott Caan

Back when Victoria was a starlette in contention, she famously removed Steven Spielberg's dick from his pants and tried to mastubate him under the table at an industry event. She didn't get the part. Julia Phillips told us that one. But there are many more.

So did the grottos have bathrooms with beds, refrigerators, lube and tissue? Did I get that right?

Or did the just do it in the open on the random couches or in the water?

It's funny. Some women who were Playmates, Playboy bunnies, etc. say it was wonderful. Other's say it was hell. Gloria Steinem caught hell for her depiction of what it was like to be a Playboy bunny: the constant sexual harassment: the physical punishment of being on your feet for hours in three inch heels, carrying around heavy trays; the discomfort of working while wearing a skin tight, revealing costume that included Bunny ears and a bunny tail; the pay that was much lower than advertised. I'm sure everything she said was true. But others say being a Playboy bunny was a wonderful job for a young, intelligent, ambitious woman, a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Kathryn Leigh Scott, who achieved a degree of fame by playing Maggie Evans on "Dark Shadows", was a Playboy bunny at the same time Steinem did her expose, she put out a book called "The Bunny Years: The Surprising Inside Story of the Playboy Clubs - The Women Who Worked as Bunnies, and Where They Are Now." In it, she sneers at Steinem's unflattering article and even confronts her at a party, telling her that she, one of those "dumb" bunnies, now runs her own publishing company. Steinem tried to be gracious and said something like "oh, I guess there is life after being a Bunny, after all", but Leigh Scott seemed to expect some kind of an apology (she didn't get one). Anyway, Leigh Scott dismissed Steinem's complaints about the job, calling excruciating foot pain "sore feet" and the horny Playboy keyholders "bumptious customers." She says SHE made lots of money as a Bunny; she made "a good living." The former Bunnies who offer their reminiscences are by and large uncritical of their time as a Bunny, although a lot of them were Bunnies for a brief period of time. One bitter Bunny was still angry at Gloria Steinem saying she had no business working as a glamorous Playboy Bunny; she was "way too old (she was 28!) " and very "insecure", which was why she was so hostile to all the beautiful Bunnies. Hoo, boy. Oh well, I guess some women are meant to be Bunnies and some aren't.

Being a bunny was a well paid waitress job with opportunity to make connections. Like being a stewardess, you were expected to look a certain way and wear the uniform well while representing the company attractively.

It had NOTHING to do with being nude in the magazine or hanging out with those orgy loving dog porn STD hot water fuckers in the grotty Playboy mansion.

The black bunny that was interviewed:said she was treated well and given opportunities to move up.

R336, the argument of someone who has no argument: "She's just jealous!" You see this all the time in debates about porn and prostitution. As if it's some sort of compliment when a straight man wants to fuck you, they'll fuck anything.

[quote] e black bunny that was interviewed:said she was treated well and given opportunities to move up.

Steinem said the "Negro (that was the word used back then) " bunnies were called "chocolate bunnies." She considered that racist. I wonder if the bunny who thought she was treated well and given opportunities to move up was aware of that. I suppose she was. And I suppose she thought being called a chocolate bunny was cute. That's a Playboy bunny, alright.

Sadly, being treated well at that time was no doubt still a version of being treated badly.

There are clearly many different experiences that were had from women who worked for Playboy. It seems that the club bunnies were mostly fine, but the live in girlfriends got the brunt of the shift. The newest episode flat out claims Hef raped a number of them, the stuff about poor Dorothy Stratten was investigated in the 1980s. Peter Bogdanovich point blank said Hef raped her in some book he wrote.

What I really don’t like are people like the valets and Miki Garcia acting as if they weren’t enablers for Hef at BEST. Miki in particular has much to answer for, I think she to some degree understands how much she perpetuated the goings on at the mansion but to hear her talk about it in the doc feels like she’s trying to absolve herself.

Miki spoke up in the 1980s, long before many others. Not just to People magazine but to Congress. That took a lot of courage and she did it without hope of personal gain.

[quote] Peter Bogdanovich point blank said Hef raped her in some book he wrote.

Bogdanovich said a lot of bullshit. I doubt that Hefner raped Dorothy Stratten. Supposedly they had sex in a jacuzzi; considering how passive Stratten was I think the sex was probably consensual. After Stratten's death Bogdanovich tried to demonize Hefner in order to make himself look like a good guy. Enraged at Bogdanovich's criticism and hypocrisy (he was a regular at the Playboy mansion) Hefner came out with a press conference revealing Bogdanovich's very close relationship with Dorothy's little sister Louise. Both Hefner and Bogdanovich were awful.

The Playmate I follow on Facebook was from the same year as Dorothy Stratten and she said she never experienced or heard or saw what was being said was happening at the mansion. A lot of her playmate friends chimed in pretty much saying the same thing. She’s posted a lot of pictures including ones of her and some other playmates including sondra Theodore being given a tour of the remolded mansion by holly. One playmate said she was kind of hit on by hef she declined and he was okay about it and she was treated well.

Another playmate from the early 80s said she was around sondra all the time the last two years she was with hef and said hef hated cocaine and it was sondra alone who wanted it and went on drug runs with her. She suspected that sondra is still on drugs and called her a coke whore or something like that.

Some of the bunnies who were there when PJ was there didn’t have nice things to say about her and one bunny claimed at a reunion that PJ told her the door was closing on getting in on the Bill Cosby story. She asked her what she meant and PJ told her that she needed to get a story about Cosby out. The woman was taken aback and told PJ that Cosby never did anything to her and PJ”s response was “it doesn’t matter”

I met Dona Speir at Autorama in Detroit a few years after Bill Cosby flew her around the world having sex with her when she was a teenager

Even watching The Girls.Next Door and how they lived in that dark old mansion gives.me the creeps. The carpets in the girls' dorms are filthy. Probably full of jizz from 30 yrs prior mixed with poop from 10,000 tiny dogs. Blech.

Bridget Marquardt's little girl speak drives me up the wall and always causes me to rage mute her. She actually talks like a ten year-old girl at her own birthday party.

Just Bill Cosby wearing a pajama nightshirt with a teenage girl in a hotel room at R346

I read R346”s link. Dona grew up with stable parents yet they allowed her to quit school and travel with Bill Cosby unattended when she was 16 and didn’t suspect something was up?

Agreed, R348. And Bridget is 48 years old. She really wanted to be part of the Playboy life, a bit more than some of the others. Markquardt tested for the magazine a number of times and was a regular at the mansion for a few years before she was "invited" to be Hef's oldest girlfriend. Remember that she was supposed to be the educated one? Yikes. She's so generically slutty looking, no offense. There's a lot to unpack from her face and wigs to know what she really looks like. She was still married to someone else when she was living with Hefner. She never did get a solo spread in Playboy. Or her own reality show.

Holly Madison looks better now than she did twenty years ago, but I went to high school with girls prettier than Bridget Marquardt and Kendra Wilkinson

20 years ago she hadn’t had all the plastic surgery hef paid for. of the blonde girlfriends he had during the aughts very few were beautiful, some were attractive but most were marginal.

I think Sondra's brain is fried. She was very beautiful, but her plastic surgery and short hair makes her look like Hef!

I would like a copy of Hef's bedroom tapes involving Jim Brown and James Caan

James Caan was HOT in his prime. He sure loved hookers and quasi-hookers like the Playboy girls, which is strange to me because he could have gotten all the pussy he liked for free. I remember reading You'll Never Make Love in This Town Again and one of the girls interviewed said he was obsessed with eating pussy. It was all he wanted to do during sessions.

Hef's girls were free. They just wanted to be famous. Jenny McCarthy was the biggest whore of them all. And Barbi Benton. They wouldn't say anything bad about their experiences later - because of all their gangbang videos and being fucked by dogs stag videos Hef made of them. Not because James Caan enjoyed them in the grotto. (He didn't with those two) Jenny was stupid and very greedy - but Barbi is quite evil. She recruited the extra dirty girls for Hef's private pleasure for years after. So was it blackmail or were they complicit?

Holly Madison was no doubt grossed out by Hefner. But she spent 8 fucking years with him. I don't think she can claim to be a victim, though she says she was afraid of all the revenge porn and photos of her he would release on her if she tried to leave. No doubt true. But she did them. And made a name for herself off the fame of being his GF. I don't dislike her - she's quite likable. But she's not taking enough responsibility. You fuck and suck off dogs on camera for Hef and Cosby and friends - someone might have something on you later.

Not sure why you feel the need to make things up R357 . Jenny was a playmate when hef was married to Kimberly Conrad who kept him on a tight leash and as discussed in the doc a playmate talking to hef would get blackballed from playboy events. Jenny was from Chicago and walked into the playboy offices there took a few Polaroid test photos and was asked if she wanted to be miss October a few days later.

Larry flint published Polaroids of hef and girlfriend Karen Christy taken in the early 70s and stolen.

Jenny was a playmate or covergirl or all round fuck toy time many times, for over 10 years. She was VERY popular - when she needed to be. Not only at the magazine.

[quote]“Playboy [was] one of the classiest organizations I had ever worked with,” she said, praising “the respect, the caring, and the support” she received when she first moved to Los Angeles from Chicago a year after her spread. “I remember moving out to Los Angeles and not knowing anybody, but Playboy was like a sorority house meets the best grandpa ever,” McCarthy said. “Hef never once hit on me when I lived at the mansion. It was during the time that Hef was married, so I got to see the dad part of Hef.”

It's Jenny McCarthy who tells lies. Whoppers. Everyone in L.A. knows her story. Anything for fame and publicity. Even after Hefner's death she polished the knob. She's been exposed as a liar and a fool many times in her "career."

Of course it did r337. They were aware what that organization was.

this episode was gross and disturbing too of course

it wasn't just Bogdanovich who said Hefner raped Stratten. If you watch this week's episode 1 of the male staffers said he saw it along with a bodyguard who then told him to walk away and not say anything

there are too many people who have spoken up about numerous disgusting incidents for them all to be liars.

Of course not everyone who was part of Playboy had negative experiences but clearly many of them did. Not sure why it's so hard for some posters here to accept that

I would actually want to see the sex tapes with the women's faces blurred out. I want to know who all the famous male pigs were who took part in degrading them. I agree with the poster upthread who was annoyed that no politicians were named and shamed as surely some of them were Playboy regulars.

Maggie Evans’ book title is longer than the book

Holly Madison had dogs the entire time she was living at the mansion and is an animal rescue advocate, so I doubt she was recorded sucking off dogs R357

Surprising Hef never recommended surgery to refine Jenny McCarthy's Madame Puppet chin at R360

R364 That logic doesn't make sense - just like how pedos target single mothers, become teachers/scout leaders/priests/charity supporters, owning dogs or being an animal rights advocate could get you into close contact with them.

R366 you don't understand dog people

R362 not all consensual heterosexual sex involving adults is degrading

R367 Some 'dog people' like having sex with dogs and keep lots of dogs for that purpose. Just look up some news stories.

R369 project all the unfounded bestiality fantasies you want

R370 Just saying that your logic is dumb.

R370 just saying you have the logic of a Trumper

The thought of anyone willingly having sex with disgusting "skin tag" Cosby...

OT, but why didn’t he ever get those skin tags removed?

R369 your logic assuming the women at the Playboy mansion sucked off dogs unless proven otherwise is depraved

R375 My logic was never that. I have never said that at all. Your logic that just because she had dogs meant that she wouldn't have sucked them off is stupid; that doesn't follow necessarily.

I have carrots in my refrigerator - does that mean I'm constantly sticking them up my bum?

There were two anecdotal stories involving sex with dogs at the mansion. One was the Linda Lovelace story and the other was Sondra Theodore saying she witnessed Hefner masturbating his dog who she also claimed was hooked on cocaine from licking it off the floors and surfaces if I'm not mistaken. Rover was hardcore!

Hefner liked to fuck in the ass, because you get to do that to those girls, he and his friends didn't use protection or want to get anyone pregnant. That's one of the reason's Holly Madison wanted to have sex with him first when he had his group of women in bed. She didn't want the dirty dick or the STDs.

The dog stories shouldn't be overstated but long before this documentary series the stories of Hefner enjoying using prostitutes and low level "girls" to perform with dogs was quite well known. For an audience, always. Of men. It's no more depraved than a lot of things - it's the control and humiliation and showing off to his VIP buddies that adds to the disgust. No self respecting woman has sex with a dog, but as is abundantly clear - Hefner had a hierarchy and harem of women - not one of them was as important as his own amusement. And many of them lacked self respect. And he had quite a run with cocaine and cocaine brings out the kinky depraved in most sexual people. Unlimited supply + power = a lot of victims we'll never hear from. Girls not right to be seen in the light.

Some of these women knew the trade off, but it takes guts now as women much later in life - seeing how they were used and sometimes abused. And discarded. Don't forget discarded. These blonde porn plastic Barbie reproductions were always replaceable.

Hookers and girls too ugly for the mansion could be used and had for almost any amusement. Hefner was TOXIC. A romantic. Loved old movies and sappy birthday cards. Aww.

He should have been imprisoned for his dancing alone.

Episode 11 should be a treat. I happened to catch episode 10 airing live last night and there was a commercial previewing episode 11 right before the final episode 10 segment featuring an interview with Karissa and Kristina Shannon, two of his former girlfriends who were featured in later seasons of Girls Next Door.

Let me tell you, they are unrecognizable. Identically dressed and made up and no less than 400 lbs apiece. I rewound last night to verify I saw it correctly. I am not exaggerating. If you scour the internet for evidence you will find very little. Some airplane drama from one of them made a very minor headline and a selfie from the article shows a very distorted profile of the sister.

I went to my recordings to see if the commercial was there, but it only has the streaming web ads now. Mark your calendars girls!

I never heard of the twins before

did Hefner do them both at the same time? yuck

I saw that too, R380, and was stunned at their appearance! The Shannon twins came right before the 3 "Girls Next Door" - one day they were there, and then they weren't. They should have a lot of tea to spill!

Susie Scott has/had a sad story. Her grandfather raped her when she was just a child

I remember Xavier Hollander, The Happy Hooker, wrote about sucking off German Shepherds. I couldn’t wrap my mind around it. Looks like it’s a thing with the rich and famous. Yuck.

[quote] it wasn't just Bogdanovich who said Hefner raped Stratten. If you watch this week's episode 1 of the male staffers said he saw it along with a bodyguard who then told him to walk away and not say anything.

So they watched Dorothy Stratten being raped and said and did nothing. Well, that says something about the content of THEIR character. I don't believe Hefner raped Stratten. She was the most passive of women; she might not have hotly desired Hefner but I don't think he rejected his advances.

No R382 the Shannon twins came after the 3 girls next door they tried to do another season featuring the twins and crystal Hefner but couldn’t.

One of them is going to claim hef knocked her up which is bullshit because when holly tried to have a baby with him they did fertility testing and he was shooting blanks.

From the Decatur article:

“. . . she lived in fear of God because her days in the Playboy Mansion led to her tossing off her morals like a scratched pair of red pumps.”

MARY!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ In whose gay mind world are those twins 400 pounds? They are 230 lbs, tops.

Old gays love to exaggerate.

The rest of us go to the gym and live in this world.

why does it seem like twins always gain or lose weight together even as adults? That's so weird

R389 that photo is 6 years old.

Also Susie Scott was Miss May 1983 and was born November 4, 1963 which would make her 19 at the time of her playboy appearance, not the 17 she’s claiming.

r391 must have been passed out during the part where Susie claimed that the magazine didn't publish the photos until she was above legal age.

R391 the photoshoot was when she was 17 but they didn't publish the photos until after she was 18 for legal reasons

R392 there's at least 1 poster here who keeps trying to discredit all the women. Not sure why unless he is some former acquaintance or employee of Hefner.

They would’ve had to have held in to the photos for 2 years before publishing them. Also Playboy used to do behind the scenes video shoots of the models posing and would call them playboys playmate review. I don’t think they would be stupid enough to release footage of a 17 year old girl.

Susie posed for the them in 1998 for a playmates forever layout which shows newly shot (at the time) photos of playmates. Susie was on the cover of the accompanying video.

R389 I saw them with my own two eyes, did a rewind and looked again. I stand by my 400lb estimate. You'll see when you watch.

She was ANALLY raped r385. As a punishment for going out with one of his powerful friends. He wanted her all for himself.

I don't know how Hef could tolerate the violence from his friends - Cosby, Jim Brown, Don Cornelius, Mark Saginor, the Playboy execs - toward the Playmates. It's insulting and disrespectful to him.

The Playmates were like tissues to Hefner. Something to be used once and then thrown away. He knew he had an endless supply of them

Susie Scott and Dona Speir were both in "Into the Night" when Jeff Goldblum visits Universal Studios and they laugh at him when he leans against the fake brick wall

This series was excellent. Very disturbing. To a certain extent, I can understand why some of these young girls continued to endure what Hefner put them through.

I was really angered, though, by the men who just stood by and watched it all happen, primarily Hefner's former valet. The guy witnessed it all and stayed silent. Only now is he speaking up and expressing remorse. Only about 40 years too late.

The old fat valet dresses like he’s an old timer film director. Beret, etc. is he wearing Jodhpurs?

R402 Too bad he didn't have a huge megaphone with him when he was watching young women being raped.

No one was willing to give up the gravy train and call anyone out on their behavior; including the women themselves. The closest anyone got was that Micki woman who testified in Congress or whatever. This is hardly surprising.

The Shannon twins were in a Sofia Coppola film! Somewhere. They played two pole dancers Stephen Dorff's character hires.

Good god, they do look like whales now. Most women in the series totally ruined their beauty with plastic surgery. Sondra was once a truly gorgeous woman but looks, ironically, like Hefner during his sad last days now.

Plus-sized porn stars the Shannon Twins are gobbling more than Krispy Kreme

There is something sad and desperate about Sondra.

R407 Yes, she comes off as earnestly besotted with Hefner despite knowing he's an awful person. I do believe she was in love with him. She essentially accuses Hefner of rape numerous times in the final "official" episode but was apparently friends with him up until his death, even having her wedding at the mansion.

In the LA Times "aftermath" article (which will probably comprise most of the discussion for the last episode), it says her kids are mad and confused at why she's suddenly talking shit about Hefner and that she's being harassed in public for appearing in the doc. It's quite sad that she seems like she never grew up or found peace.

She seems totally batshit crazy. I wonder if she has early dementia or something.

All I can say is that Sondra got into the "Playboy" life when she was only 19 years old and she's probably never developed emotionally, intellectually, or otherwise since then. Her whole being was and is, wrapped up in being Heffner's girlfriend and a former Playboy Bunnie. She must've enjoyed the perks and the money but they came at a cost, didn't they?

Like the portly Shannon twins at R406 Teri Weigel is another Playboy playmate who got into hardcore porn

This show should have been 6 episodes at most, it's droning.

Miki's face aged the best out of all them. Still very beautiful

She doesn't come off like that at all r408. She seems very sad and regretful. Incredibly damaged. You don't read people very well.

it's clear that Hefner/his associates preyed upon 2 kinds of women-the ones who were already damaged with chaotic upbringings and, the ones less mentioned, those who were very sheltered and trusting. Both extremes set up anyone in life to fail but especially a girl or young woman trying to make it in the world.

Absolutely r415.

Miki and Sondra both said they came from 2 parent religious homes,

Sondras ex husband managed vanna white, Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy who he dated for a few years in the 90s.

I think Dona looks very good, Susie Scott looks ok, and Holly is quite beautiful. Miki is indeed beautiful but hard looking. She looks like the madame of a high class brothel.

It always shocks me to see how once beautiful young women (or men) can completely lose their looks when they're older, sometimes not even so much older; Rebekka, Cristy, the fat one, Sondra.

And you too, R418.

Why, thank you, R419. I do still get the compliments :-)

R418

Imagine what you want R420. You know what I meant. Who still does this? :-) ? That proves you to be over 65 years old at least!

"Who still does this?" People who aren't blind.

But I guess in your world, R419, 'Everyone is beautiful, in their own way', as the song goes...Chrissy Metz, Lizzo, ha ha.

Huh? You're an old white fag, R422. Very old. Everyone is not beautiful. As you well know.

Don't preach @ me. Y'all were caught in your grandma games. Put the bottle down and go to bed Nana.

So what's your point, you aggressive asshole R423? Some of these genetically blessed women, who traded on their beauty, have not retained their looks and some others have. It's an observation. What is your problem that this has triggered you so?

Testosterone. I got it. Remember it gramps?

Everyone is Beautiful In Their Own Way....is a song from......1970!!! I googled. Recorded by a man who also had a hit with "Guitarzan." Yikes. 🤣 😂 🥱

The old man at R422 shits in his own dirty diaper. Y'all never been blessed.

OK this thread took a turn

You know who took a surprising turn and ended up doing porn? The guy that played Peter in Jesus Christ Superstar. Ok. He didn't have the best voice but still he was on Broadway and then in the movie!

R428 Everybody knows this.

R425 this damaged self-hating queen

I was really pissed when the doctor's daughter talked about the Playmate's father who came to the door looking for his daughter and she lied to him.

How could she live with herself?

I agree r431. That was a terrible thing to do.

I always thought Susie Scott should have been Playmate of the Year. She was used in promotions for years for the magazine, for holiday issues and subscription cards.

She must have felt cheated, especially after having sex with Hefner

Her goddess body and hair were all natural, which is unheard of today

Omg r429. I had no idea until last week!

Wait, is that model at r433 the same person in the documentary?

The year Susie Scott was eligible for playmate of the year I heard they went with Barbara Edwards because she was brunette and the last few winners were blondes.

Susie Scott wasn't pretty enough to be a playmate of the year.

R425 R425 was your queeny bitch-ass fathered by an abusive, neglectful or absent dad?

R426 rejected cast member of The Real Crack Babies of Los Angeles

R423 so many attempts and so many fails at the tough-girl act.

Susie Scott was one of the top faces of Playboy in the 80s. Anyone who looked at the magazine regularly then was familiar with her image, unlike many of the other playmates

^ but her face

Oh come on rr442. She was adorable

Kendra Wilkinson has the most jacked-up face of anyone to appear in Playboy. She was ushered into the world because she resembled an actual half-human/half-rabbit

Bridget Marq-shart is injecting so much toxic goop into her face nowadays that it contorts differently affecting the way she speaks

The Shannon twins must also be matchy-matchy with their Jack-in-the-Box late-night orders to be exactly the same level of obese morbidity

Cherie Witter was also robbed of Playmate of the Year by the inferior Kathy Shower, who must have guzzled gallons of Hef jizz to claim the title

Susie Scott's brother was also molested by her grandfather

He was HIV-positive and one day he woke up in 1996, ate a piece of cake, and shot himself in the heart

Had his cake and ate the bullet too!

Is episode 10 the last one?

No r449 they recently filmed 2 more, looks like the first one focuses on the Shannon twins.

they shot this extra episode due to the good ratings of the series

for those wondering there's a thread about the Chippendales murder too

Good podcast interview with Secrets of Playboy director Alexandra Dean

Another episode tonight. The twins. Does anyone know if they still do hardcore pron? They gained a lot of weight. Perhaps as a way to reject the pron.

Alexandra Dean comes off as pretty measured in the interviews I've listened with her - even specifies that just because a person went to the Playboy mansion or personally knew Hefner doesn't mean they engaged in sexual abuse or assault.

But that doesn't really line up with the testimonies of some of the rejected interviewees for the docuseries who said that their parts were cut for being too "nuanced" - like that one ex-Girl Next Door who runs a pug foundation now. Apparently her stories poked a lot of holes in Holly's claims of abuse and gaslighting.

R453 they are still doing tag team fat chick porn on Pornhub at R406

What time is it on tonight?

The link r406 posted was from 3 years ago and they were much thinner, but One of them has an Onlyfans that she was still promoting on Twitter a few days ago. Before Playboy they had been arrested for getting into a bar fight.

R454 that was Isabella who left about a year before the girls next door premiered. The twins didn’t seem to like holly either.

Well who would like Holly? She's as fake as they come.

I love how Holly talked about how the appeal of the Playboy mansion was the happy family thing and then said that everyone ended up hating her. Uh yeah, maybe Holly is the one who can't do the happy family/friendship thing.

The only reason playboy and penthouse exist is because hetero sex is generally illegal or impossible out of wedlock in the puritan usa. But I guess its better than going into a lifetime of debt to get married just so you can bang for a year or two. Very expensive culture. Not smart consumers. Whats the #1 drive besides food and water? Yep, register it and tax it endlessly, the fruit just keeps on producing. At least hugh sent us a postcard once a month from tinseltown, oooooohh the good life usa

what's the story with that Mary O'Connor woman? She seems as bad as Marilyn Grabowski

Did anyone watch last night?

No, I didn’t r462. The later years in Playboy hold little interest for me. I like heyday 60-70–early 80s

I found the twins entirely credible. And sad.

The Shannon twins are huge messes (literally) but I believe they were truthful about most things they said. Others that were around have mentioned some of the same things they said, like the whole control freak thing, and Hef just wiping off with a wet towel in between fucking each girl. I can't think of much less erotic scenario.

The most sensationalist things they said was that they caught chlamydia (lucky that's all they got) once and Hef's dusty sperm managed to get one of them pregnant and managed to sneak off long enough to get an abortion.

Why would they have to sneak away? Hefner wanted no more kids. Most of all, I don’t believe they would pay for an abortion. Hefner paid for everything. An abortion would have garnered sympathy from Hefner.

There was no way of securely predicting Hef's reaction. She was correct that she could lose even more control of her life.

Who are you r460? The Lovin’ Spoonful?

I felt really bad for them. Clearly they have a lot of issues but they seemed very heartfelt and honest about what happened to them.

Also hef did fertility treatments with holly because she wanted to have a baby and found that Hef was shooting blanks and no longer could produce sperm. That was one of the big issues that led to their breakup. Holly has 2 kids with her ex husband.

The twins remind me of Tweedledum and Tweedledee. I have no idea what they're doing now but they could star in a John Waters film or make a fortune doing BBB porn.

Did the Shannon twins mention that they did porn after Playboy and the diseases, abortions, "assaults" that came with it?

Nothing about their lives post playboy in the doc. Karissa did a celebrity sex tape with smallville actor Sam Jones lll in 2010

In a revival of I Love Lucy, the twins could play Teensy and Weensy.

1 more episode next week

[quote]Jennifer confirmed that holly was a tattletale. She was friendly with one of the girlfriends who took a pair of hefs pajamas and was selling them on eBay. Holly found out, told hef and she was at a photo shoot when she was called and told to pack her bags and get out. Another girlfriend named Stacy Burke had done hardcore porn on a kink website and holly told hef about it and the girls voted to kick her out.

According to Holly, Jennifer is talking out of her ass. Holly points out that Jennifer heard that story secondhand and it isn't true. She points out who it was that got kicked out for doing that and when it happened and that it happened before Holly had moved into the house. I don't remember the details but she used some video shoot as evidence that the timeline didn't make sense.

I would never release Hef's shit stained satanique pajamas. They're like Monica's blue dress. Priceless.

R465 1 more thing-that he was racist. They said he chastised them once for hanging out with an Asian girl at Playboy mansion party and then another time he got mad when they were seen with a Black guy. That goes against the image he created for himself in the 60s and 70s as being open to everyone. It does make one wonder why he stopped having any girls who weren't blonde in the last decade or so though. He used to have a variety of women so I believe the Shannon twins. Who knows if he just hid his bigotry in his younger years or if he went through some bigoted change in his last years of life

The twins are an incestuous couple and have been since prior to their Playboy stint. Too bad that wasn't discussed. Or their post Playboy hardcore porn career. Or their numerous arrests. Or their gluttonous mental illness.

And the racist claims by the twins was likely bullshit. The twins, however, were 100 percent racist trash themselves.

These women need to look into themselves more and determine WHY they were ambitious for the Playboy bunny life and what led them there. The one mentioned being molested by her grandfather and leaving home at 15 or 16. None of the others has shared any introspection. I wish they would. Let's face it, not every stripper is putting her way thru law school.

My Top Three Favorite Details of the Shannon twins Wikipedia bio:

1.) They attended high school "for a time"

2.) In 2016, Kristina was arrested for driving drunk on her way to get a nipple piercing

3.) In 2017, Karissa was arrested for felony domestic violence, while Kristina was arrested for misdemeanor violence after Kristina punched Karissa in the face. Karissa threw an ADT security monitor at her sister, knocking out her teeth

They are wrestling with some demons and trauma. It's a shame because they were cute.

Holly was the first one to come forth with what really goes on at the mansion in her book Down the Rabbit Hole, which was released while Hef was STILL ALIVE

Director Alexandra Dean probably wouldn't have had the confidence to go forward if it weren't for her book. And Holly was the one who recommended an interview with Susie Krabacher after emailing Dean a link to this Diane Sawyer interview with her

I never knew about those twins until this show. When they described having to take turns sucking and fucking an 83-year-old when they were 18 it was revolting. They were too intoxicated with the money and fame to say no.

R485 these poor poor assaulted victimized consenting porn whores

R485 you've seen this, right? R406

I am r485 please read my post again. I never said they did anything non-consensual. They couldn't walk away from the money and ended up being a prisoner/sex slave of Heffner's because of it.

The twins would probably be living in a trailer park in Florida with several kids each and miserable. I don't really blame them for regretting fucking geezer Hef, but it got them opportunities and 'fame' they wouldn't have had otherwise. At least they can take solace that they didn't do the real nasty shit like Holly did for him.

Exactly, r489. What this series really revealed was what a gold-digging whore Holly is with zero self-respect. She wanted to get knocked up by that old decrepit thing.

They’re all trash.

So the twins were Playmates before becoming girlfriends? The speculation somewhere was that they stayed because they were afraid that not going along with it would take away the possibility of any fame or money they would get from the shoot or becoming Playmates of the Year.

If you're someone from a shitty childhood who didn't come from much... I guess one could potentially see why the threat of that alone, when you have no other viable options, might be enough.

The gross thing was an interview where the twins talked about how their father loved Playboy and was all gung ho for them to be in the issue... no doubt some further investigating into that relationship might explain a whole lot.

It's an interesting revelation that Kendra, who has always called everyone else a liar re; drugs, was the one that allegedly got the twins into Hef's room where he ended up giving them the drugs (allegedly) that Kendra says he neve dabbled in.

Anything about women fucking anything is of NO INTEREST to me

The parents of the Shannon twins probably wish they had a twin-bortion and spent the money on meth instead

R493 and yet here you are four-hundred ninety-three responses deep

Was anyone else wondering when the "interviewer" was going to ask them ,"f it was so awful why didn't you just leave?" It is none of these women's fault that Hef and Co. were sleazy predators, but it was their choice to stick around and take it. Basic instinct tells us to flee in a dangerous situation, they all ignored their inner voice for a shot at some cheap sort of fame.

A trashy female poker player, Jill Ann Spaulding, who was desperate to be part of playboy wrote a book before Holly and when it came out, Holly tried to pretend it was all bullshit.

Terribly written, it was still an amusing read as she was so thirsty and turned up to all these events like a stalker. Her husband was a cuckold and later on he killed her in a murder suicide.

Lisa Guerrero said she did a cover for them when she actually did a pictorial for the magazine. The twins were Misses July and August in 2009. They had zero shot at being playmate of the year. It was between Hope Dworaczyk and Jessica Bruciaga both had big followings on social media and Hope is tall and beautiful.

The sex tape karissa made with sam Jones iii came out in 2010, so she may have made the tape while still with Hef. I think she got an abortion but I don’t think it was Hefs baby.

I remember her r497, she sent in photos of herself wanting to be in the magazine and was invited for a test shoot and they were shocked how different she looked from the photos she sent in. I think a lot of the stories she wrote about came from someone who was a part of the party posse in the early aughts (I think she was Asian) but Jill Ann framed it as if it was being told first person.

Jill Ann and her husband tried their hand at being paparazzi photographers in Las Vegas. They divorced and the ex husband killed her, her new boyfriend and himself when they came over to his house.

R496 is it any different from other people in abusive relationships who don't leave when anyone on the outside would say it was obvious they should?

Most of us feel like we have common sense not to get ourselves into situations like that but I think we should also remember that Hefner obviously had a type and probably sought out these types of women who he could control with his money and influence. That doesn't absolve them, but it kind of makes you understand why some wouldn't leave and why there was a pattern.

They were raised by their grandmother. The money they were bringing in was supporting her and giving her a better life.

How and when did they get to be the size of elephants? Clearly with all the makeup and styled hair, they care a lot about their looks.

They could have waited tables and helped grandma.

R503, they did. They worked at a Hooters-type wing place when they were 15. I'm not sure how that was legal.

The twins interview was very depressing. That they escaped Hefner only to end up doing porn is even worse. They are clearly damaged.

I have identical twin family members in their 30s. Their lives are also weird and they are from an educated, successful caring family. They live in a mind bubble of their own, unreachable by reason. Still they love their family but persist in living in a fast lane of drugs, fast cash, and danger.

There are a number of documented cases of strange identical twins. Not all are nuts of course. There used to be a pair of old lady identical twins in my town who made a career of socializing in identical outfits until they died in their 80s but never did porn. Just eccentric attention whores.

^ The Edith Prickley sisters most certainly should have done porn. I guess it wasn't as reputable or lucrative back then.

I'm sure the Shannon twins grandmother didn't encourage them both to drop out of high school and re-locate across the country to move in with Hugh Hefner and do twin porn

I'm interested to see the finale of the ex playmates meeting up, but it seems like it's going to some woo-woo trauma healing closure thing.....

R507, maybe not but their father did!

Those Edith Prickly twins have GREAT eyebrow game!

The last episode is tonight.

Watching last episode now

Sondra T seems so damaged

Small article about Jill Ann Spaulding’s demise.

That's the point of the series, that the women were already damaged when they entered Hefner's orbit and as a predator, he knew that they were easy prey.

I'm glad they reminded people that predators don't make the experience all bad, otherwise they couldn't keep their victims around very long.

All of these women seem entirely credible. There isn’t one that I doubt. They’ve seen and experienced shit they couldn’t possibly make up.

I totally agree R515. When they realized what they know is different for each one - but they see the damage to themselves. They live in it and with it. Some have to live with how they participated in the damage and ignored the trauma of others. The stories are not much news and in a way - it's good that they are repetitive. That is not always riveting filmmaking but it is damning confirmation. Playboy was a closed culture within a celebrated lifestyle. You don't have to be raped to be abused. All that and so much more happened anyway. I believe them all.

Hefner was a hedonist. But he manipulated women into bed in sometimes fucked up ways.

If Hefner was a hedonist, then you're just a lover of underage boys, R517.

Oh please. I believe all of it. I used to travel with some celebrities and seen all the shit they do. So I can only imagine how the Playboy mansion was. Ooo wee. All those poor beautiful girls. Hefner was insatiable. I wonder if there was ever a top that could actually satisfy him. Big ol freak. He's disgusting even without knowing all this. And there is a no more pathetic human being than of those that go on defending celebrities they don't even know. Absolutely pathetic. I like Susie and Sondra. They seem like genuine nice people. Sondra is definitely damaged and dramatic as all hell.

R519: What drugs, if any, did he take ? Coke?

He took every recreational drug ever invented. But he was an adult. That was his choice.

His crimes that he and his male buddies like Cosby committed hundreds of times was giving drugs to women who didn't know they were being given drugs

I believe the women in the documentary. Yes, some women went along with sexual exploitation to further their "careers" but others were deceived, groomed, drugged, and raped.

Hef & Friends took advantage of the young, weak, innocent, and damaged. They were careful not to use women under the age of 18. Stronger women would stand up to them, or they used the creepy old dudes in return. I hope Sondra and the others who spoke out get some healing and feel more empowered now that they've told their stories.

R521- Thanks. Not judging about his drug use, it's just that I kinda pictured him as a voyeur. The one who doesn't never gets as high as the others because he prefers to be in control and observe everyone.

I'm surprised these people didn't get AIDs with all that anal sex and anal rape and pass around female bottoms. Curious.

R524- Some of them must have, it seems impossible that not one of them get AIDS. Factor in the rampart drug use and that ups the odds. It just sounds so nasty and debasing. Gross.

^Got^

My friend worked at the Playboy Club in Boston for a time. She said it was basically a cocktail waitressing job with good tips, although the clientele could be a pain.

I just can't manage any sympathy for these women in this series. They were hungry to get ahead and some cases poor, and Hef and cohorts exploited this,but apart from the ones who were brutalised or drugged without their knowledge, they were not victims. It was a transactional relationship that they now regret.

Kind of sad to see them now, in their 40s-70s, all covered in makeup, bleached hair, greasy-looking lipgloss. But their crocodile tears don't move me.

One of them did and discusses it in one of the episodes R524.

[quote]I'm surprised these people didn't get AIDs with all that anal sex and anal rape and pass around female bottoms. Curious.

I'm surprised Hugh Hefner wasn't arrested and thrown in jail for all the drugging and raping.

But the dogs ... Sick and depraved.

Hefner’s son Cooper is involved with politics and wants to be in the Senate. I remember High Hefner said the sex tapes were used as leverage against people if the reason arose. You hear the women say they think the bideos were thrown into the ocean by Hef. Bullshit.

Hefner never said they would be used as leverage but some of the participants said they were afraid they would be. Sondra claimed she was a drug mule for Hef and got cocaine for him, but another Playmate who was close to her during that time said Hef hated coke and that sondra was the one into it and she would go with sondra to pick it up just for sondra.

Here’s a quote from Renee Sloan baio who was around when holly first started dating hef.

[quote] Holly, you would still be working at Hooters and couch surfing living in a shitbox apt behind the Chinese theater (belonging to someone else ) if Tina Jordan didn't introduce you to Hef!!! You choose to stay there. You choose to pose nude. You choose to do a reality show. You also choose to write a book. Hef never made any of us (yes, I lived there too) sign a NDA. I never did drugs while there. Hef never forced girls to do that. I never wrote a book to line my pockets with money. I moved on without condemning Hef, the staff, his friends, or any of the other girls that I lived with while there. If you're so hurt, give back the 1k CASH Hef gave you every WEEK for SEVEN YEARS while you lived there. Along with your health care, car(s), golf cart, car insurance, hair salon visits -weekly, clothing allowance, make up artist -weekly, all of the $ for your plastic surgery, room and board with butler service, maid service, the high-end dogs Hef bought you and their health care. HOLLY, GIVE IT ALL BACK (to his kids) OR SHUT THE F*CK UP!

Thanks for posting r532. I mean, this is what a hooker does, non? No difference. Some of the women are more sympathetic than Holly esp those raped on the road while repping Playboy. Or those who were emotionally fragile and naive, and clearly taken advantage of.

Renee is a pig. I see the Baio couple posts here.

Hefner DID say that about the videos r532. He said it to Cooper who repeated it.

No he didn’t r535. Here’s his comment on the documentary before it aired.

You have a lot invested in pushing your narrative. Fuck off back to Twitter. This ISNT what I was referencing. It was a videotaped interview. This came up maybe before Hefner was even dead. It was not recent. For what it’s worth, I’d vote for Hefner. I just thought it was curious at the time to actually say aloud that they were held as insurance against people bothering the son and the mag, I guess after Hefner’s death.

How many episodes are there. It seems to go on forever.

You’re making shit up R537. You think Hef or Cooper would be stupid enough to say publicly on camera that they would use sex tapes as leverage or insurance, post revenge porn laws and hogan/gawker verdict? Hef already had revenge porn with him published with a girlfriend from the 70s in Hustler.

The last episode was Monday r538. It was originally 10 episodes but it did well enough where 2 more were added with Lisa Guerrero doing interviews. I would’ve like to have heard from Miki and PJ post documentary. PJ said she’s getting death threats from “85 year old ex bunnies”

Kelly Tough was a Playmate in 1981 and a childhood friend of Dorothy Strattens who encouraged her to try out for Playboy. She commented on the LA Times article.

[quote] You know what Joel, the last 2 years Sondra was with Hef, I was with her almost 24 hours a day. Hef actually hated coke and it was Sondra who insisted on having it, I was witness to that and was with her when she went to pick up the coke that she only requested for herself. She was a coke addict and probably still is. She is what I would call a dope simple slut.

What the hell is Dope Simple Slut?

Hef was so awful to Sondra that he gave her $$ for an attorney when she got divorced.

So then what's Sondra's hangup?

The Shannon twins saying that Holly only talked to them when the cameras were rolling is understandable on Holly's part and not the big scoop they think it is

Their crocodile tears do move me much as their fake orgasms moved rich men. I'm moved because there was no equivalent for men--no place where desperate young sexy men were photographed nude and paraded in front of audiences of powerful wealthy women and fucked up the ass by women and forced to fuck dogs to get ahead to curry favor with powerful elite women. Funny how it only works one way.

With their creepy mimicking Apple-Dumpling Gang moonpie faces and matchy-matchy oversized gleaming button-down shirts, Holly Madison says in one of her latest videos she had a nightmare after watching their episode that she forgot something in the mansion and the Shannon twins were inside terrorizing her

Karissa Shannon”s Facebook page. Scroll down to March 28 and there’s a odd video she posted behind the scenes of their interview.

Up until the time Hefner died, Kendra Wilkinson, her friend Jessica Hall, Lauri Waring and Jeanna Keough and daughter Kara from the Real Housewives of OC, and Shanna Moakler (ex-wife of Travis Barker) all posted photos/talked about taking their kids to the mansion for the annual Easter egg hunt and they gushed about what an amazing day it always was for everyone. So there are still bimbos sanitizing this whole thing and trying to convince their Instagram followers it was all so wholesome.

In other words, former "playmates" are still trying to milk their glory days by convincing other people it wasn't just plain old sleaze with a really good photographer.

Right. Because who wants to be exposed as a dirty whore. Playboy was supposed to be "ART". haha.

Dope Simple Slut is the name of my new band.

I think it's interesting that most of these women who've come forward have had extensive cosmetic procedures - lip injections, tight face lifts, etc.

It's as if their self-worth had been so destroyed that they tried to change their outward appearances to cover up the ugliness they felt inside.

So sea sounds hollow when she speaks. What happened to her? Did she have nose surgery?it sounds so weird. Maybe false teeth sound?

My mom wondered if sondra has dentures, the didn’t seem to fit her mouth and she thought they were clicking at times.

Sondra is a mess. She looks like The Red Woman in GoT after she took her necklace off.

I finally watched this mess. Holly Madison is so full of shit. Not only was she allegedly psychologically and verbally abused by Hef, but now she claims to be on the Asperger’s spectrum? Puh-leez. This scheming bitch is a filthy gold-digging butt whore. She was always desperate to get Hef to marry her thirsty ass. So phony. Is that what all of these “strong” women do now? Become professional victims when things don’t go their way.

[quote] James Caan was HOT in his prime. He sure loved hookers and quasi-hookers like the Playboy girls, which is strange to me because he could have gotten all the pussy he liked for free. I remember reading You'll Never Make Love in This Town Again and one of the girls interviewed said he was obsessed with eating pussy. It was all he wanted to do during sessions.

I don't see the problem

𝐑𝐞𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐇𝐞𝐟𝐧𝐞𝐫'𝐬 𝐬𝐞𝐱 𝐭𝐚𝐩𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

Blind item claiming he was allowed to view some samples and describing some of what he saw. Too much to paste. Item 95 on the linked page.

Most reader guesses posted sound reasonable but Lynda Carter was never on Charlie's Angels so that one is plainly incorrect.

The Shanon twins got huge. These fat whores are pathological liars. Hef didn’t get the one pregnant nor do I believe he was who gave them chlamydia. That as likely the whoring they were doing on the side. These two sluts are grifting cons.

[quote]She says in the interview at [R71] that Kendra Wilkinson claiming in her book that she moved into the mansion without having sex with Hefner is bullshit and that women moved in only after fucking him

Holly Madison is just jealous of Kendra because Hef chased after her. I would honestly not doubt it if Hugh Hefner asked Kendra to move in before he fucked her. He saw a picture of Kendra in body paint at one of his parties and demanded to know who she was. Holly had to ask to move into the mansion and just kind of stuck around. I think she was always salty that Hef was so taken with Kendra and let her get away with so much crap whilst she lived there. Kendra was clearly his favorite. Holly is still crunchy as fuck over it.

Also, did anybody else laugh when Whorey Holly claimed to be asexual?

[quote]gold-digging butt whore

Found the opening act for r551's band.

Kendra was the only one of the three that would've gotten into the magazine without the Girls Next Door making them "sellable." Holly needed lots of plastic surgery and Bridget was too mature and 'milfy'.

It's funny how she Holly herself look like victim that was pressured into having plastic surgery. Didn't stop her from having even more after leaving the Playboy world. She better stop already, she's one procedure away from looking like a freak show.

R560 Kendra posts on DataLounge between Valtrex applications!!!

R563 Kendra is so fucking ugly and the one who is most unworthy of appearing in the magazine. She wouldn't even be a top-tier porn actress. You clearly have NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about

Kendra Wilkinson is the dum-dum straight dude version of what is considered "attractive" with damaged bleached beyond repair blonde straw hair and cheap black-market fake bolted-on implants she bought in Tijuana

Cooper Hefner seems pretty level headed and family oriented (he has 3 kids) and progressive . Marston Hefner dropped out of site after getting busted for beating up his girlfriend who was a Playmate. Hef’s oldest son David is rumored to be gay and is super private. Christie dropped out of the spotlight after she left playboy.

David and Christie’s mother Millie is still alive at 96.

Kendra did the same thing as the Shannon twins by having sex with and moving in with an eighty-year old man while she was a teenager

R565 I'm not even much of a Kendra fan but have seen many comments of lots of people, many who actually subscribed to the magazine, that thought Kendra was the only one who could've gotten into the magazine even if she wasn't on the Girls Next Door Show. Some liked Bridget and thought she had the best personality of the bunch. Not many cared for Holly and thought she was unattractive and pegged her as a gold digger right away. The vast majority of her fanbase seems to be women who buy her mostly BS stories.

[quote]Kendra is so fucking ugly and the one who is most unworthy of appearing in the magazine. She wouldn't even be a top-tier porn actress. You clearly have NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about

Holly has entered the conversation.

Holly WAS jealous of Kendra. Just read her book if you don’t believe me. How hot Kendra may or may not be has nothing to do with it. Hef thought she was great for some reason. He let her marry at the mansion and did not hold a grudge when she was cheating on his old ass with Hank. Bottom line is Kendra was Hef’s type and Holly wasn’t. Holly just pushed her way in. If Hef had still been young enough to still be on the prowl Holly Madison never even would have made it past Pig Night.

Kendra didn't do half bad for herself post Hef, despite having any kind of marketable talent. Hef likely picked up the tab for her wedding, which was held on the mansion's front lawn. She knocked out a couple of books, had a few seasons of her own show called KENDRA ON TOP, did some reality shows like MARRIAGE BOOT CAMP, worked in Vegas on some "play" with Jai Rodriguez, (which must have been excruciating to watch!) But she had some good side hustles. The ex husband Hank Baskett probably has an NFL pension so she probably got a decent settlement. Her little boy was very cute too.

Holly was a plastic blowup doll with fake rubber tits. She entered the mansion as a 5 and left it as a solid 8.

Holly Madison is a frau icon. They all ran out and bought her book and celebrate her as a hero for bashing Hef and the Playboy lifestyle. The only reason she bashed him is because she did not get what she wanted from him. She was still friendly with him on her awful E! Show. She sang his praises in fact. She didn’t start crying foul until she was promoting her silly book. I have a problem with people who never take responsibility for their bad choices. She blames Hef and Criss Angel for all of her relationship problems. Now she blames bullshit Aspergers for her need to be famous. She also says she is an asexual who obviously loves to date douchey bro-dawgs. Has she talked shit about Zak Bagans yet?

R369 more of your weird Kendra PR

Tell us more about what these exotic creatures who subcribed to the magazine have to say about Kendra, who truly is the most unattractive woman to EVER appear in the magazine. You have never seen an actual model or remotely good-looking woman apparently

R370 that lame comment was posted several hundred ago, Ken

You had to have spent your entire life with a penis in your mouth and sphincter to think Kendra Wilkinson resembles anything other than rabid canine

I went back and double-liked my own comments too

You have Kendra on your mind far more than I ever have. I never even watched her reality show or follow her on social media or her 'career'. Let me guess, you're a huge Holly frau stan. Go lick her snatch instead of posting homophobic comments on a gay site. If I wanted to know about cleaning a dick after being up a sphincter, I'd have to go ask Holly. That was her specialty, apparently.

And while she's far from the most attractive woman to be in Playboy, she's still more attractive than Holly, Tina Jordan and that horse faced girl that photographed that old lady in the gym locker room nude. So, there is three that's worse.

[quote]Kendra did the same thing as the Shannon twins by having sex with and moving in with an eighty-year old man while she was a teenager

So did Holly. She actually asked to move in. They are all whores, but she is the biggest gold digger of all. She had to share a bed with that old wrinkly fart. Imagine how many times he pissed and shit his pants next to her. Yuck.

Kendra,you are obvious and you are embarrassing yourself. Kendra married a tranny chaser. He wasn’t interestedly in being married. He was interested in chasing cock. Kendra is NOTHING but a public joke. Her white trash mother was thrilled her meth head daughter was fucking a 80 year old.she was happy to be on the show and want to party with her too. Total scumbags.

Kendra seems like a moron.

[quote]Kendra,you are obvious and you are embarrassing yourself. Kendra married a tranny chaser. He wasn’t interestedly in being married. He was interested in chasing cock. Kendra is NOTHING but a public joke. Her white trash mother was thrilled her meth head daughter was fucking a 80 year old.she was happy to be on the show and want to party with her too. Total scumbags.

UNHINGED FRAUEN ALERT!

Now that it was mentioned... Kendra does look a bit like a Doberman. Is that why Hef was into her?

Actually, Kendra looks a bit like Sondra. Same strong features. That’s what Hef’s attraction to her was about.

Hefner never dated a beautiful woman. Not one. They were of a type for sure. Too thin and toothy. Sondra is not beautiful, young or old. Kendra is not ugly - but she's looks trans. Kimberly Conrad also looked like a very thin trans man. And Holly? She must have been willing to do ANYTHING, because bow wow.

Even painted up like the other whores - Dorothy Stratten stands out in the documentary as a truly lovely young woman. She really just glows. Really pretty features, beautiful skin, blonde hair that was the right tone for her skin, a lovely body that was young and natural - not starved and operated on.

Of course there were probably many playmates that would be considered beautiful, but Hef's type was not that. Or they had too much dignity to fuck his GROSSNESS and be paraded like blow up dolls for his pig friends or participate in group sex 3 nights a week.

The latina clean up crew madam who wouldn't fuck Hef to become Playmate of the year was also a beauty when she was young. But nothing like Hef's usual type.

The fact that Holly is fugly doesn't negate the fact that Kendra is also disgusting.

I don't like to judge, you know? I've never been so poor that I had nothing left to sell except my body. One of the gals said that some of the women who came there were destitute. Maybe the fear of revenge porn circulating was enough to keep them there. So I don't want to judge them for being greedy, fame hungry, too lazy or stupid to find legitimate work, or just plain slutty.

I thought Barbi, Shannon Tweed and Brande Roderick werenpretty

*were pretty

I wonder why Barbi won’t talk.

Barbi a good relationship with Hef and stayed friendly with him.

Kimberly Conrad. Before there was transface, Playboy was full of them.

These always too blonde blue eyed emaciated women with HARD tits, tiny noses and strong jawlines were Hef's type. Clearly he lived in a state of arrested development and indulged himself in some boyhood fantasies about what sexy woman versus a classy woman looked like. I think he thought he married Murder in Texas equestrian types. Ha. It was no doubt unconscious.

Hef would have never fucked or married Marilyn Monroe. She was too much a woman. He just got lucky and published the pictures. He liked to mark and defile women, but not if too many other men got there first. That's why Holly was more the clean up crew than marriage material.

Kendra was young and fresh. The price tag was still on her tits.

I thought Sondra was stunningly beautiful back in the day. She's barely recognizable as the same person today. Hef must have really done a number on her.

Too bad Carrie Leigh didn’t make any comments. She was the one with Hef who balled Hef, Hef’s doctor, the doctors kid...

Yes, Carrie Leigh. Another Miss TransContinental.

Carrie threatened to sue Jennifer Saginor after her book came out. Jennifer produced the love letters Carrie wrote her and Carrie quickly backed down. She will keep her mouth shut forever. I think she has a family now.

Carrie Leigh wasn't bad. At least she wasn't re-manufactured into another one of the Anna Nicole clones.

Hefner brought Carrie Leigh to court to sue her for being a gold digger. He wanted every present he ever gave her back! What an old asshole! Hahahaha Leigh had CHUTZPAH!

“Hefner, 61, said he has evidence, which he would not discuss in detail, that showed Leigh stayed with him for his money and had been sexually unfaithful to him several times.”

Here is Hef using the videos against her.