ContraPoints repackages a bunch of Jordan Peterson insights on RESENTMENT, calls the video ENVY and gets praised

I haven't seen this one but her Jordan Peterson video is one of the best refutations of his world view/philosophy that I've ever seen. People always get emotional and angry when criticizing Peterson but he's actually easier to come at in debate terms. The tear-down of the "post modern neo-Marxism" phrase (i.e. the revealing of its meaninglessness) is great, and needed to be put out there.

I don't agree that her Peterson video was a slam dunk. As always she made many, many great points (eg about aspects of his dubious rhetorical strategy). But her examination of "postmodern neo-Marxism" wasn't great, because it pretends Peterson isn't aware that the combination of these two sets of ideas is inherently incongruous and nonsensical. He's acknowledged this incompatibility many times times, most notably in his Paglia interview. The truth is that many aspects of the thinking and the academic "disciplines" he critiques are a silly mish-mash of these ideas, and one that makes little sense. We all personally know leftists who mouth a whole bunch of inconsistent crap, like "categories like biological sex aren't real" but then will mouth in the next sentence a bunch of Marxist dogma about the objective reality of categories like social class. ContraPoints is a great entertainer and I love her work and her intellect, but her output is a mixed bag. For example, her Incels video is stunning insightful and revelatory, but her Autogynephilia video is self serving and self deluding nonsense aimed at propping up her own selof-image and place and the world.

Her Incels video is one of the best. Contrapoints is an intelligent person, and she looks even more intelligent in comparison to her Youtube peers and reddit incel communities online etc. but I find one of her most compelling attributes to be her willingness and ability to talk to people who are very rarely talked to, iykwim. In her incels vid she did a good and authentic job of understanding them, of even talking about her similar experiences etc. The Peterson video was also playful, not snarky or hateful. I find her most recent videos the least compelling - more navel-gazing and less interesting. She's grown out of Youtube, as I see it, and most of her own stans.

Can you link me to the relevant part of the Paglia/Peterson interview (i.e. where he acknowledges the incompatibility)? I've watched that interview but it was a couple of years ago now. Paglia is (in my opinion) Peterson's intellectual superior by every measure. I don't dislike Jordan Peterson and I think he's been unfairly vilified by certain factions of the left, but I also don't buy him as THE new public intellectual. He's mostly a standard issue family values conservative. The most fascinating thing about him is how thoroughly his ordeal with benzo addiction revealed his inability to live up to his own standards. His clearly being in thrall to his unremarkable IG famewhore daughter is also deeply ironic.

Random thought but to add to the convo: I don't remember which video this was in but I do remember Contra saying something along the lines of "and we all know what we're attracted to is determined by society" and thinking immediately that it was the first thing I ever heard her say that I utterly disagreed with.

Here's the Paglia video. She's gone VERY quiet recently. I assume it was the trans frenzy she attracted at her college.

Wait, did I read well? You put Marxism in the same sentence with Jordan Peterson?

"Post-modern neo marxism." The person we're discussing (Contrapoints) alleges (and I mostly agree) that it's a meaningless scare term used by conservatives. No one's calling Jordan Peterson a marxist.

R2 do you remember at what general part of the video JP "acknowledges this incompatibility?" Like i said I've watched it before but I'd rather not sit through it again just to find that one part.

R4 I didn't hear about any trans controversy with Paglia - in fact I remember wondering last year how she hadn't said anything Twitter-meltdown-worthy on the topic. Looks like I missed it - and I try to follow what she's up to, generally. Sexual Personae should be more widely read than it is and I respect her efforts/mission to bring high art to the masses.

Ideologues always come for people like Paglia. Always.

Oh no it was students at her own college? She loves that job and has frequently talked about her love of teaching. That's sad af.

OP, do you expect us to watch a transvestite for over an HOUR??

Give us the timing for the highlights so we can skip the boring bits and get the interesting bits.

Ack! I haven't seen "Us" yet and she incorporates that into her video. I don't want to spoil myself. So, I had to stop. I've never heard of her before. But she tied the Apollonian/Dionysian philosophical dichotomy into Spongebob Squarepants so beautifully, I'm subbing.

Now, let me go watch "Us."

However... if a "transvestite" was onstage miming badly to Gloria Gaynor you'd be on it like an old porn star on meth.

[quote] I did enjoy this video.

Which is the best part of this video?

I have first heard of this twat (I mean Peterson) when he had debate on the concept of happiness: Capitalism vs Marxism with Slavoj Žižek. The guy was such a quack. He became famous later for being klonazepam addict and seeking for treatment in Russia and Serbia after his rehab in Canada failed. Not that I didn't feel sorry for him, an addiction is a shitty thing, but he is a major asshole and charlatan. And what has he to do with philosophy and political economy, he is a psychologist writing self-help books.

And Slavoj Žižek isn't a major asshole and charlatan?

Slavoj Žižek is mentioned in the video. He's a Dionysian.

He is getting too old to be a Dionysian now. I watched his lecture on technofeudalism a few days ago, he seemed rather tired and obviously in fear of change the pandemic brought.

He wasn't even grabbing his nose as much as he used to.

[quote]he had debate on the concept of happiness: Capitalism vs Marxism with Slavoj Žižek. The guy was such a quack.

That "debate" was an embarrassment and it's an ass-showing for Peterson's rabid fans that none of them called him out on the fact that he clearly hadn't read the one book he should have read before engaging in a capitalism vs marxism debate.

Like I said I don't find Peterson entirely uninteresting and wouldn't call him stupid but he's way, WAY overrated and as you point out his expertise is in psychology.

Contra say she don't masturbate or cum. Maybe that why her brain so big?

[quote] Contra say she don't masturbate or cum

They used to masturbate when they had a penis and a cute goatee beard back in the days shown in this link I found on Google.

But they don't masturbate or cum anymore because they can't.

Imagine being R20.

Didn't Jordan Peterson himself not just copy from what Nietzsche said on the subject?

[quote] ContraPoints repackages a bunch of Jordan Peterson insights

ContraPoints repackages great wads of their daddy's university lecture notes.

I wish OP had made a coherent post so that I can decide whether to view the video.

I guess that when you're trolling for views, in most cases, it actually helps NOT to be specific in the vain hope fools will view your video just to figure out what you're talking about.

[quote] I wish OP had made a coherent post so that I can decide whether to view the video.

Who wants to listen to a ninety-minute video?

Nearly 4 million people.

"Didn't Jordan Peterson himself not just copy from what Nietzsche said on the subject?"

Citation isn't copying. He cited him prominently and applied his ideas to contemporary society.

[quote] Nearly 4 million people

Where does this number come from, R26?

To the best of my knowledge Contra has never said she "can't" masturbate or cum. When I last saw her talking about it, she suggested the urge or the need or the priority had gone, and seemingly implied that didn't bother her. The suggestion was she found fulfilment elsewhere as hormones changed her being and her outlook. It feels gross to be talking about this and talking on her behalf but she does put this subject out there, sooo... She's very much a trans cheerleader so I guess if it is true that there are negative sexual consequences to transitioning, that should be honestly tabled. She should talk about that if so.

The view count under the video, R28. It's currently at 3.8 million.

r27 So how do you know ContraPoints is copying Jordan instead of drawing from the same source he is?

Anyway, I would love to know what goes on in the minds of these right-wing Christians who use and abuse Nietzsche. The main target of N.'s analysis of resentment is, after all, Christianity, and every modern social movement that seeks to arouse the ire of the weak against the strong -- socialism, feminism, democracy -- is, in ultimately an atavism of Christianity, in N.'s view. So how is it that these Nietzschean Christians agree with all this, and yet consider their religion beyond the reach of all these criticisms?

Jordan Peterson is old and busted. Literally.

[quote]The view count under the video, [R28]. It's currently at 3.8 million.

That doesn't mean 3.8 million people sat through the entire video. If you watch it for ten seconds you're included in the # of view counts.

Where does Natalie Wynn (ContraPoints) get all her money? She's had a ton of surgery and those clothes and sets ain't cheap.

R34 Natalie's parents are millionaires.

[quote] If you watch it for ten seconds

I want the OP to tell us about the highlights but I can't waste more than 60 seconds on this overdressed verbal-diarrhoea.

You can nitpick about views but ContraPoints gets millions of views for all of her (many) videos. That clearly implies there is an established audience for this content somewhere in the millions who do watch.

I feel the same way about people like Ben Shapiro (and other conservatives of his ilk), R31. He presents himself as a cold, hard rationalist, a logic machine who believes nothing illogical. And yet he is deeply religious and believes in God. It's inherently contradictory.

Is it true that her parents are wealthy? I'd love to read more about that. There is certainly a trend of over-educated (in the Humanities only) very rich white kids who LARP as socialists. I note in the video Nat raged against "billionaires, not millionaires".

She makes most of her money on Patreon, I assume. I think she has thousands, possibly even tens of thousands, of people signed up to hers. Which to be clear I am not criticising. they obviously appreciate her content - I would have signed up myself but chose to go with a few animal rescue channels instead because Contra is already very well paid.

Being a millionaire these days simply means you can buy an apartment in any large city, and not having to live in perpetual debt, not much more than that. Those are not exactly the people who pay no taxes while their employees cannot afford dental care for their children.

"So how do you know ContraPoints is copying Jordan instead of drawing from the same source he is?"

She very belatedly references Peterson and Paglia's discussion, without going into much meaningful detail to justify that mention, which stinks of trying to head off criticism of idea theft.

[quote] She very belatedly references Peterson and Paglia's discussion

What do you 'belatedly'?

Do you mean in the 50th minute or the 80th minute in this 109 minute long diatribe?

LOLing at all the people in this thread encountering ContraPoints for the first time and demanding Cliff Notes versions so they don't have to sit through two hours of set changes, wigs and turgid, verbose exposition.

I'm just not that into her r43

"DICK OR NO DICK? "

I know she's reading this.

R46 Do you think that the OP, Michael and Natalie are all the one and the same !?

Shapeshifter wearing cosmetics!

I watched her video on "The West." It's a broad, superficial argument in places and contains a number of factual errors.

Sorry, here's "The West" video

Natalie gets her money from Patreon, these days, although I have a feeling her parents helped her with the transition money. If you glance at her Patreon, she has over 12k patrons each giving somewhere between 2 and 10 bucks a month. After Patreon's fees she more than likely clears 30k a month if not more.

And OP, no matter how much you stan Jordan Peterson he will not fuck you. Probably because he doesn't think you are white enough and therefore lack the intellectual maturity to deal with his shriveled dick.

Plus, he has a messy room.

R50 The OP isn't stanning Jordan Peterson, they are stanning Natalie.

Natalie wasn't bad-looking back when she was a dude. You can see she got a ton of surgery to make her look more feminine.

Natalie Wynn Parrott, formerly William Nicholas Parrott

^ Cutie (on the left) and lunatic (on the right)

I hope Natalie lives well and is happy. As with all these cases the proof is in the pudding. Flash forward 5, 10 years and does she regret the process, does she still hold her current views, and is she happy she did it? It'll be interesting to see. All I'll say is that she probably lives too much in her own head, in a world of theory, and would probably be happier had she not wasted far too many years in the Humanities department racking up massive debts that forced her to comply to the ideologies of RESENTFUL people in academia. If Natalie had instead got a real job and integrated her being more with the body she was given, through a more physical life, would she be happier? I suspect she would be.

I feel like for some of these transwomen (i.e. men), they transitioned because they needed a new shtick. Contrapoints would just be another white dude on Youtube, he needed an angle. I think it's the same for the Philosophy Tube guy, the writer Andrea Long Chu, and professor Grace Lavery, plus lots of other men who, in order to stand out, decided to 'express their feminine essence.' They monitized their Autogynephilia.

They monitized their Autogynephilia and repelled like me.

[quote] If Natalie had instead got a real job and integrated her being more with the body she was given, through a more physical life, would she be happier? I suspect she would be.

Do you mean as a man or as a woman? Natalie was quite handsome as William.

Nat is somewhat enigmatic. A lot of her stated motivations for transitioning do sound a lot to me like AGP (like being gratified by other people perceiving her as a woman). This despite her arguments that AGP is not a thing and doesn't comply with her experience. However she is remarkably naturally feminine in many ways, and doesn't come across as the the stereotypical AGP man in her presentation; that is a masculine straight man in a dress.

"Do you mean as a man or as a woman? Natalie was quite handsome as William."

Body she was given = as a man.

I understand why she dropped the Parrott. Especially with the recitation of JP talking points.

[quote] was quite handsome as William

I'd like to hear William's voice before he castrated himself. Because the current voice is a REALLY creepy, high-pitched monotone.

This castrated person speaks the same way lunatics do in an expression-less monotone. They NEVER have to make a dialogue with another human being because they have the money to create an expensive coccoon in which to spin their spider-web of fantasy.

Lunatic in cocoon at 3.40.—

Contra in 2017 while still identifying as "genderqueer" and most likely before any hormones or surgery.

Jordan Peterson and some of his ideas changed my life in a very positive way, and I am grateful for his lectures and 12 Rules for Life. He's not perfect either. Give him a break.

Andy, I've noticed that when most. people slam JP they usually slam a straw man monster version of him. Most of the haters hate a fictional version or they hate who they associate him with. People like Shapiro. I'm a center left gay man and I know there's nothing to fear in Jordan Peterson. He's a very positive influence and does not "hate" trans people.

This is Natalie at her very best:

[quote] This is Natalie at her very best:

R67 Which is the best part of that 36 minute monologue?

[quote] Contra say she don't masturbate or cum

If contra paid a doctor to turn his dick into a fauxgina, it's not surprising he can't cum -- that kind of work would screw up the plumbing.

I think she has a dick.

She's never said she's had the chop. It's interesting the way people assume that she would have. It seems there's definitely a big trend now for transgenders to keep their original organ, whereas years ago they were all rushing for the chop.

[quote] It seems there's definitely a big trend now

What caused this trend, R73?

Is it indecisiveness?

r74 r75 it's split between two groups - the trenders where id is all that matters, which a little over a decade ago they were against hormones, too, claiming they make you "gay" (well, "straight") and were aggressively harassing the trans the supported them. But they were against all things "trans-medicalist"

ftms - which in higher numbers avoid bottom surgery because the results are neither as aesthetically nor functionally pleasing as desired. Though for mtfs, while the aesthetics and function are better, you have some that avoid it because of certain techniques only being affordable or used in their nation and that longterm may cause related and indirectly related complications.

and the trans-critical trans (which is seemingly what trans-medicalist are now called) which those that are visible are predominately younger (in teens and twenties) and fears that it might negatively impact their dysphoria even more than keeping it -- yes, fears it may lead them to want to detransition and fears that detransitioning for them will lead to feelings of suicide. But also highlight the substantial lack of longterm medical research as well to surgical complications and effects on mental health by unbiased parties (no funding attached to either anti-trans nor pro-trans advocates and agencies). . It's not necessarily overnight surgery or recovery, so it's a huge longterm investment that also means likely sacrificing personal things in their lives; paying off school, house, auto, etc. so, there's a mix of reasons that we could say relates to how economic pressures are affecting everyone else as well.

The next phase is for AGP to be a badge of honor and then the previous generation who denied it and claimed a gendered soul are cast adrift as old fashioned and redundant.

[quote] AGP to be a badge of honor

Yes, the AutoGynephiles need to have their own Pride Festivals and they can have special AutoGynephile Pride Parties where they can rape genuine women.

There's huge pressure in the trans community to deny AGP so I can't see it being a cause for pride anytime soon.

R79, I'm surprised trans rights activists keep the Digital Transgender Archives website up, because there's lots of writing about autogynephilia. From grading their wives on how well they took their 'coming out' to whining about the mean women who wouldn't let them into MichFest, it's all here:

I note Conrta now purely identifies as a "trans lesbian" and the experimentation with having sex with men as a woman appears to be over.

Trans never fuck each other.

[quote] "trans lesbian"

What on earth could that possibly be?

I know what a dictionary says but the subject of this thread is obviously a perverse contrarian who has all of Mummy and Daddy's wealth to create and act out their own rules of human existence.

Jordan Peterson recently resigned his tenured position at University of Toronto

Peterson is so wealthy from his books he never needs to 9 to 5 again. He can also reach a much wider audience than classrooms.

Heterosexual men who transition invariably identify as "trans lesbians". Some of these will have sex with men. You'll note that it's a common AGP turn-on for others to perceive them as women. So that would explain the interest in being fucked by a man "as a woman".

R86 I still don't don't understand that.

Where the fuck is Camille Pagila? She's been awfully silent lately.

[quote] Where the fuck is Camille Pagila?

She's waiting for you to summon here— with as many foul-letter words you can muster.

Academics need to get real jobs. They have way too much time on their hands.

I can't stand watching this person. How can they have four million subscribers? Who is watching them? How much real political or cultural influence are they having?

When I first learned about transsexuals. I noticed that many trans women still were attracted to women contrary to the stereotype that they are all self-hating, over effeminate gay men (which I've never believed). Many trans men also seem attracted to men as well.

I'd like to call out a comment from the lolcow thread related to his rich parents:

[quote]When you've screwed up your own child by drugging the life out of them when they were a teen and a tween and their brain was still developing, potentially having caused irreparable damage and a livelong prescription drug addiction, you gotta pull some strings to make up for the damage you've caused them. Remember what Nick said in the Psychiatry video, when you are from a rich family you are not allowed to just fail. Rich parents with university connections will pull whatever strings they can to cover up the damage they've caused to their drugged up kids. "No son of mine is a drug addicted alcoholic dropout narcissist. I drugged the daylights out of mah boy because I didn't like the idea of him playing with himself in the shower, but MY good wholesome Presbyterian son is going to be a professor like dad, and like grandad was before that.". When your rich controlling parents have planned out your life for you, I guess becoming an addict and then going trans is a kind of desperate rebellion against that.

What's the lolcow thread?

r89 wants some tranny dick inside her hungry fuckhole

This is really no different than when the Daily Show reads quotes to right-wingers and tells them it's from the left and they rail against it only to go silent the moment they're told it's actually from some right-winger they admire.

The lolcow thread was linked @ R20. Has a LOT of history and background on Natalie/Nick before he become Contrapoints.

R66, They look like two stereotypical effeminate gay men bitching at each other. Blair White's incessant preening and queeny gay voice is enough to put anyone off (as well as his terrible makeup skills). He's basically Milo Yiannoplous in bad drag.

[quote] just a reminder that this faux lefty "i'm totally a good guy" tries to shit on feminists and claim that actual feminists aren't feminists, but before he started taking titty skittles or claiming to be "non-binary", he spammed/sent porn to radfems to upset them (i believe it was violent porn, but i'm not entirely positive about it), while claiming to be a "feminist guy". this the misogynist male garbage we're stuck with on the left, that claims we're conservative anti-fems, and that he knows what's in the best interest of women uwu . . . he admits that he did this in one of his videos and is ashamed about it, and he was basically teetering on anti-fem territory during his atheist youtube days, but the radfem porn spamming was fairly recent and done with the intent of being a good lefty

THIS is the fucking idiot you started a praise be all thread about?

Bet you anything he started this himself.

Didn't Blaire go back to being a boy?

No, unless the reversion happened within the past two weeks.

Trans is the new moral panic. Look at y'alls in here literally unable to talk about anything *except* trans. The transes are coming for you! And your good non-trans wives! And your children! They're coming to trans and then EAT your children! Run! Downfall of society! Run! Runnnnnn!

Contrapoints isn't as orthodox woke left as people think. If you actually watch her (and I'm not saying you should, only that I do), she's been in an increasing bind as her own views diverge from those of her very woke, very young, very hardline stans. I've been waiting for her to address this but I think she fears more backlash - and her entirely online existence and inability/unwillingness to get out of her specific internet milieu, which she has obviously outgrown, isn't helping.

Wasn't Contra driven from Twitter for awhile a few years back for daring to say that she didn't understand the point of constantly announcing one's pronouns to everyone?

This really offended her non-binary audience especially, since they live for the pronoun game.

[quote] The OP isn't stanning Jordan Peterson, they are stanning Natalie.

Are you sure, R50?

Because everything about this cocoon-dwelling contrarian creature called 'Contra' is contrary to nature.

For the poster who was wondering why some transwomen are straight, some gay, check out Blanchard's transsexualism typology.

Blanchard categorized trans women into two groups: homosexual transsexuals who are attracted exclusively to men, and who seek sex reassignment surgery because they are feminine in both behavior and appearance; and autogynephilic transsexuals who are sexually aroused at the idea of having a female body. The typology explains differences between the two groups in childhood gender nonconformity, sexual orientation, history of fetishism, and age of transition.

I agree that Contra is very clearly gravitating away from woke orthodoxy. Except when it comes to justifying her trans identity in which case strict and irrational dogma still holds. I wonder why? As with all YouTube personalities, she is a slave to her audience and she's chained to certain expectations or her audience is gone, along with the money.

Contra I know you are reading this please make a video about DL.

I think Blair is in a similar situation. She's stuck doing toxic stuff to feed her audience when she'd rather be doing makeup tutorials. YouTube fame is a prison.

I watched one or two of her videos at some point.

Not only were they way too long, I just don't understand what people see in her intellectually. All her tedious 'philosophical' wankery seemed so self-evident and banal. Also, her artsy theatrics are just smoke and mirrors to make her inane content seem deeper than it actually is.

We're living in a sad time if people go to intellectually lightweights on YouTube and genuinely feel that they have any significant insights to offer... Maybe all those idiot fans of hers should read real books instead and not waste their time with these overlong ego-masturbatory exercises?

^^^ *intellectual lightweights ^^^

I'd like to take her hiking for a weekend. Throw away the phone, get away from the Internet and the perception of self mediated through YouTube and stupid pomo theories, and connect with reality.

R107 That's interesting. I imagine the gay ones with strong gender dysphoria has more to do with having a lot of discomfort with their homosexuality and fitting into a masculine culture. The US is especially backwards when compared to other modern societies on gender expression. Any type of emotion or flamboyance in men is associated with possibly being gay. It makes young gay men who cannot conform to masculinity more paranoid. Add that with anxiety disorders and other traumas. Transitioning to a female may arise as a solution to a life of misery.

I think that group is probably the true transsexuals who generally do try their best to not draw attention. They were also the ones who were with gay community historically.

The transsexuals who are autogynephile are more than likely the vocal minority on Twitter who demand attention and constant validation. And pushing erasure of women and terms like cis gender and birthing people.

Autogynaphiles are what we all used to know as festishistic transvestite straight men. The kind of men who'd dress up in suspenders and hooker clothes and jack off in front of the mirror. They are now the ones who become aggressive and threatening when denied access to female spaces and especially when denied sex with lesbians. Homosexual transsexuals don't have that same aggressive entitlement and have no interest in fucking women. They leave them alone.

R114 and R115 suffer with Polysyllabia disease.

R115 I see. Crossdressing is usually a harmless kink and some do like men who are androgynous and will engage in the play. I think Dennis Rodman, Ed Wood, Prince, etc. They never claimed to be women and were also masculine.

There's even a Wikipedia page on autogynephilia called transvestic fetishism

Polysyllabia disease? What would you write instead?

I follow Mr Orwell's six suggestions—

I accept genuine transsexuals who have intense gender dysphoria thus need to transition and got surgery for their mental health. The genetics and hormonal influences in the womb probably cause it just like with homosexuality.

The only issue is they can present as female but they cannot claim to be biologically woman and then require women to be "cis women", "chest feeding people", etc. And if they do not have bottom surgery, they can't be surprised if women don't want them in woman's bathrooms, locker rooms, shelters, jails, etc. Women sexually develop breasts, they menstruate, can get pregnant, are shorter and weaker than men, etc. Standards of femininity (like the color pink, long nails, long hair, certain fashion) is socially constructed but womanhood is pretty universal around the world and gender roles arose from biological sex differences. Manhood is similarly based around strength, ability to do physical labor and being competitive. It's dishonest to deny hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

I think trans women and trans men should have their own unique identity and would be much happier for it. Because they will never biologically change their sex.

If you think "fetishistic transvestite" is too complex and multi-syllabic, I can't really help you. Sometimes adults use big words to talk about complex things.

[quote] big words

The person in the OP's video uses so many big words it sounds like gobbledygook.

Well she's a product of modern Humanities departments were silly (and often nonsensical) words are used to imply complex technical knowledge within disciplines that are far from technical. It all started with translation of Foucault from French and snowballed from there.

Vladimir Lenin formulated Rules about Propaganda to the Proletariat.

1. Take control over the media (so he took control of the Pravda newspaper). 2. Speak in the language of the Proletariat.

The person in the OP's video makes use of a host corporation (YouTube) but uses hopeless language to communicate a message.

It's hopeless language for a vast, mass audience, but for anyone who's done a Humanties degree in the last 20 years it's heroin. Know you "positionality", people!

[quote] It all started with translation of Foucault from French and snowballed from there.

Foucault and co. are no longer taken seriously in French universities. The French can't believe that Foucault's horseshit is still so revered in America.

It's also interesting that the crowd who are hyper-vigilant about highlighting sex crimes, and habitually dismiss white men generally, still venerate Foucault. His antics in North Africa are very well documented.

True r127. Foucault was as bad as Jimmy Saville.

ContraPoints has moved to the right but plays coy about it to maintain her audience. You can't live full-time in crazy woke land without them eventually turning on you and coming to the realization that you're part of a deluded cult.

Correct but it's also an age thing. Unless you go from being a college student to a professional role academia, or go into either professional activism or an activist-related bureaucratic/government role, you tend to drift away from woke orthodoxy. I'm sure earning her own money and owning assets has played a part in the shift right. It always does.

R84, that is good news. He is a disgrace to the profession. He does not deserve to teach students in degree programs at an accredited university. He is a misogynist, who is ironically led around by his batshit crazy daughter. They are free to grift all they want, but not in an environment where students pay to learn legitimate theory. Unfortunately both continue to take advantage of vulnerable people and are praised by people who should know better.

Can you give any examples of Peterson's "misogyny"?

I think Peterson has valid insights and an interesting perspective. That said, he's not perfect and has his fair share of biases. His fanboys don't seem to get this.

Peterson shouldn't be defined by his crazier fans. His biggest weakness is his tendency to look at trends and then to catastophise. He takes things to their worst possible outcome every time. Like crazy trans activism is extrapolated to mass graves and gulags. That's a function of his depressive personality.

Jordan Peterson is seen at his best in this HILARIOUS interview.

It's entertaining because—.

1. He gets his points across in simple language.

2. She gives a cringe-worthy performance.

3. It's conducted as a dialogue while the OP is a tedious monologue, as baffling and dirge-like as a sermon in another language from another century and another land.

I don't know about misogynist but I do wish Peterson would just admit that his project and concern is mostly for young men. Which is fine. A person is allowed to focus on on group to the exclusion of others without that automatically meaning they hate or disdain the others. I just know when I've heard him asked about women in terms of life advice it never amounts to more than "have babies" and it would be preferable for him to just say: you know, women aren't really my focus.

For all his talk of parenthood and life advice and raising children, his daughter is a fucking mess. I mean a real mess, the type of girl he would be using as an example of how not to go about young womanhood if she wasn't his child. Married (to an obviously grifty Russian "entrepreneur"), a mother, and then divorced before 25, posting thirst trap photos on social media, not a person who stands out as particularly intelligent or thoughtful, especially not in any traditionally feminine ways (she is in fact, from what I've seen of her on Youtube and various podcasts, kind of a ball-buster). And JP gives out parenting advice with no trace of embarrassment.

His fanboys are going to get mad at this but honestly he seems like a weak man who is using his brain and his training to work out his insecurities around his own masculinity (he is physically unimposing and Kermit voiced - this is never a man women would have flocked to) and who probably needs the admiration and respect of his young male audience more than is healthy.

[...]

[quote] And Jordan Peterson is a rambling homophobic idiot.

Can you give any examples of Peterson's "homophobia"?

[...]

I'm sure Contrapoints has never said she's a "biological woman" - never. I watch her videos. She definitely does not herself believe - or ask others to believe - that she is a bio woman.

[...]

He isn't a woman, but I'm not surprised a troon is plagiarising a well known misogynistic cunt like Jordan Peterson.

Peterson has never endorsed gay conversion therapy. I've never heard him say anything remotely homophobic or misogynistic and I'm very familiar with much of his work. Like all of us, he has big problems and deficiencies that I'm very aware of, his chronic catastophising being the biggest issue. Look also at the meat-only diet, which is more garbage from his daughter, and also consider the supernatural stuff he often strongly alludes to but in typical style won't openly commit to. But the above accusations of gay-hate and woman-hate are blatant lies.

I didn't start the topic, R141, but I have watched pretty much everything Contra has on Youtube and no, she doesn't ask to be referred to as a bio woman. She does not believe she is a bio woman. You're either lying about being familiar with her content, are simply being malicious, or genuinely don't understand sarcasm. All of the "a real biological woman, sweetie!" stuff is VERY OBVIOUS sarcasm on her part. I'm actually tempted to go find an instance of it to prove you wrong but I'm pretty sure you already know.

[...]

And R143 is also right. I wouldn't say I'm a Peterson fan, but I am familiar with his work and output as well and he isn't anti-gay.

Y'alls need to come with some actual arguments. Right now a bunch of people in this thread are just straight up lying about people they don't like. Which...if you have to do that then maybe question why you're here?

"So what you're saying is..." became quite the meme for awhile after that interview at R135.

I was officially "over" Jordan Peterson after he did that interview with Milo. For years he would publicly call Milo a "court jester" and made it clear that Milo should be regarded as such (no problems or disagreements there!), but after Peterson-mania started dying down (as well as Milo-mania), here he is doing an interview with Milo and is treating him as legitimate.

It was also pretty amusing when Jordan made comments about MGTOW, putting the blame squarely on them for their own failures with women, and then had to walk back most of his comments after he realized, with all the backlash he got, that a big part of his audience are also adherents to MGTOW 'philosophy'.

Proof. Provide links. To Contra non-jokingly saying she's a bio woman and others should agree, and to JP being homophobic. LINKS. TIME STAMPS. OR FUCK OFF.

[quote] For all of you Jordan worshipers

You talk in extremes, R139.

[quote] OR FUCK OFF.

You talk in anger, R148.

No one is here "worshipping" Jordan Peterson. Most of us here are able to detect nuance.

[quote] MGTOW

I don't know what that is. Has anyone here mentioned it?

Very, very few people could deal with the head-fuck of extreme fame, enormous power and intense adoration that Peterson garnered in record time when he was at his peak. There were always going to be problems with that, especially when he was always open about his history of chronic depression. Then his wife was diagnosed with cancer. At his core, he was fundamentally about helping people. If you'd read even just the back of his book you'd know that. He was never about killing trans people, despite the utter shit you might read online. The fact that so many people revelled intensely in his suffering should tell you something about the kind of people who hate him. And it's not good at all.

I wish Camille Paglia wasn't MIA, her opinions were always interesting.

Once Paglia reaches retirement age, and she no longer needs or wants her day job at the college, she needs to write the ultimate bomb-throwing book. At the moment it's impossible because of the totalitarian political climate in Humanities departments.

Paglia is in her mid-seventies, she's long past standard retirement age.

Sharks need to keep swimming to live, Paglia needs to be able to talk all day to live.

[...]

Natalie is here right now pressing refresh feverishly.

That's not a great answer at R156 but I don't see how it's specifically homophobic. The questioner says he doesn't back Australia's gay marriage campaign but "only because it's backed by cultural marxists" - and JP appears to agree. He explicitly says he's in favour of "extending the bounds of traditional relationships" to people who wouldn't normally be involved in one (in order to more thoroughly integrate them into society). His objections seem to be entirely tied to the fact that the "neo-marxist radical left" are in favour of it, and that in places where gay marriage has been legalized it hasn't "done anything to decrease the demands" said marxists continue to "place on traditional society."

His specific oppositions aren't homophobic but I can't help but imagine he would be a lot more outraged if the people being denied what is a basic right for others in society were straight, white and male. Conservatives can be so choosy with who does and who doesn't deserve equality.

JP strikes me as one of those people who needs an enemy to constantly battle against. It's why the comparison to Contrapoints, who repeatedly demonstrates an ability to actually listen to differing views and consider them in good faith, is wrong-headed.

JP is not as dogmatic as he may seem. He changes his views as he goes along, in a reasonable and reactive way. I'm sure if you asked him about marriage now he'd be more positive. The problem here was that issue was framed to him in terms of being a cultural Marxist attack. I personally know many gay men and men of color who have benefited from his work.

Jordan Peterson is just a quirky conservative. His ideas aren't that deep.

Maybe he should get extensions, wear lipstick and learn campy set design then, and his ideas will suddenly become deep and urgent.

Omg

R162 I never Contra's ideas were 'deep and urgent'. I'm just saying Jordan Peterson is basically just social conservatism repackaged.

Hear hear r151

Hi Contra it's great to have you here!

[...]

Sorry but I can't feel threatened by ContraPoints.

[quote] Sorry but I can't feel threatened by ContraPoints.

I am bored by ContraPoints.

She's definitely peaked. I could see a renaissance if she wants to do trans regret videos. And Blair can go full SJW. Both can reinvigorate their brands.

I am bored by this fake-woman. I wish he would go away.

[quote] This is the silliest stuff that ever I heard!

If you live this online, your whole life can be stage managed down to lighting, angles, sets and makeup. You can even script yourself. That has a a certain appeal but what happens when you step off set, because sometimes that is necessary? I note she's had grief on Twitter, where life is less able to be stage managed.

R156, I didn't hear anything homophobic there.

He is pro-family and does see gay marriage as a way to better integrate gay people into mainstream society.

He objects promiscuity in general and points out that promiscuity is, on average, more common with gay men. (I cannot really object here. Personally, I wouldn't judge it as harshly, but I think DL agrees that a whore is a whore...)

I find his obsession with "neo-Marxists" weird and off-putting (because I think it's a strawman ultimately), but let's replace the word with current Queer or LGBTQA+ activism for a moment, and I cannot find fault with his assessment that their demands and assaults on more traditional modes of living don't stop when they achieve a goal. The attacks of queer activism concerning more traditional social values have gotten significantly worse since the widespread legalization of gay marriage in the Western countries, its demands more and more outlandish. This is hardly controversial, and it's a discussion that DL has had daily for many years...

If you think that his position is homophobic, maybe you should get a reality check and grow a thicker skin. His was a perfectly reasonable opinion that many gay men actually share.

Agreed. There were two forces behind the push for gay marriage. 1: People who wanted it because it was a just and reasonable request. This group have been satisfied. 2: Neo-Marxist activists who want to demolish the system, and saw use in destabilising traditional boundaries. They haven't been satisfied by the advent of gay marriage and have ramped up their demands with increasingly absurd bullshit around transgender stuff.

[quote] increasingly absurd

You're right. The "Cultural Marxists" are making absurd demands. And they're increasing.

They don't call themselves Cultural Marxists, they call themselves Social Justice Warriors.

Sex isn't a real category it's all socially constructed to oppress people and maintain white supremacy. But my feeling about gender, which can change daily, are real and must be respected.

Now that gays have been mainstream for nearly 2 decades, people realize many of us just want to fuck, date and marry the same sex in peace. A lot of attention whores latched onto the LGBT community. Many of whom who are neither gay or even really have gender dysmorphia and want to become "queer" in order to feel oppressed. Usually these people are from white middle-class homes in the suburbs who suffer from too much free time and probably narcissistic, self-absorbed parents who want validation from their kids rather than disciplining them and preparing them for adulthood. Unfortunately these histrionic narcissists have become the face of the gay and trans communities and Republicans are using the vocal minority to demonize us all.

My feelings about my bowels can change daily and must be respected.

Honestly, r174, it's similar to acknowledging the destructive cultural social norms within the Black community and a stray from the nuclear family has lead to many of the problems in our community. I don't think it's racist when non-Blacks address this, provided it's done in a good faith and sincere way. At the end of the day, you'll be hard-pressed to find a Black person who will disagree that single parent households and father absenteeism hasn't played a significant role in the downfall of our community. Even Obama agrees to this.

Not surprising, you had, none other than BLM themselves advocating for the destruction of the nuclear family as a "solution" to the Black plight in society. Literally from their website (a page they removed but thankfully remains on Wayback Machine in its original, Marxist, glory):

[quote]We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

One of the founders of BLM, Patrisse Cullors, even openly admitted that she and the other two founders are "trained Marxists." So, JP's focus on that ideology creeping its way into a lot of the activism on the far-left, isn't exactly coming from nowhere.

White middle class narcissists with danger hair, coddled by parents and embittered by 5 years of college imbibing toxic ideologies of resentment, and at the end, no job prospects.

Don't these morons realize that Marxism doesn't work? We've had many examples of that.

Peterson didn't do himself any favors by helping to construct this conservative bogeyman of "Marxism", "Cultural Marxism" or "Post-Modern Neo-Marxism."

The problem is that it raises the question of defining Marxism (it's not one coherent school of thought) or Post-Modernism (again, not one coherent school of thought), followed by the question on whether the people who are demonized as "post-modern Marxists" really follow ideas from these diverse schools of thought or have an ideology that is its own thing altogether. So, calling everything Marxist doesn't help. Classical Marxists would probably be shocked by the total lack of consideration of class in today's discourse...

No, they don't know Marxism doesn't work. Look at their ages; they were all born MANY years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Information we take for granted they aren't even exposed to. They aren't educated about the realities of communism at school and when they enter college humanities departments, everything is looked at through the lend of Marxist analysis. They feel they've been given the keys to understanding life but really they're just indoctrinated by resentful ideologues.

Marxism-Leninism as a discrete communist ideology (as seen in the Soviet Union etc in the 20th century) ≠ Marxism

Kids today are usually unaware of class analysis. Class was replaced with identity politics because that's what galvanises people in western society. So you get situations like my relative, who is half white/half asian, holds a highly prestigious job, was given a $1.8 million house by her parents, but still situates herself as a "WOC" who feels oppressed and rails against impoverished white people who she feels have power over her.

R187 Yeah, I think that more classical Marxists would probably have quite a few problems with the critical social justice theory discourse.

My point stands, however, that conservatives like Peterson are too lax with regard to the terminology that they like to throw around, and this tends to bite them in the ass eventually. As a fellow psychologist, I am quite sympathetic to some of Peterson's points (I have only seen him in interviews and podcasts, haven't really read any of his books), but he definitely tends to catastrophize, overreach, and overgeneralize.

The sad thing is that we do need smart, well-educated, and outspoken intellectuals who can debunk the Frankensteinian monster of "Critical Social Justice Theory," but it must happen in an as honest and differentiated fashion as possible. Otherwise, it falls into the trap of becoming just another partisan attempt to denounce "dem damn libruls."

In the end, I feel the problem that people are abandoning liberal values and liberal democracy because they have forgotten what it is to live in a world without them.

The depth of class analysis now is just spiteful and simplistic tweets about "billionaires". So it;'s really superficial, and designed to play on envy and resentment. Which is what Contra is talking about in her latest video (now that she's independently well off from her Internet fame).

Contra admitted she came out of her Masters degree full of anti capitalist ideas, personal resentment over other peoples' higher status, and no usable skills in the job market. We should listen to that when he assess what's wrong with her generation. She found a way to monetise all that. 99 per cent of graduates in her situation don't. The downside for her is that she has to perform within that ideological space for a living, for the rest of her internet life, even though she likely no longer believes most of its claims.

Living his Best Lyfe

I lost interest in JP when his daughter started to become more and more of a presence. I don't like her or her influence.

Omg

Well…

[quote]mikhailapeterson Verified I’m going on @jordan.b.peterson’s tour!!! I get to open for him! Isn’t that beyond awesome?!! What a change from the last few years. I’m going to be filming some behind the scenes content too and uploading it to YouTube (because that should be wildly entertaining)! Get your tickets early with code JORDAN at https:/#www.jordanbpeterson.com/events/ (linked in bio).

[quote]Hope to see you guys out there!

^ link

The daughter is sinister.

Ugh, why do we have to ruin everything by making people "celebrities"?

Engage with their ideas but please ignore them otherwise. Nobody needs to see his grifting daughter milk her father's popularity; nor should he indulge her like this.

Anyway, we have a problem if there's more incentive for a person like Peterson to sell out and become a full-time pundit in conservative circles instead of doing research and teaching at the university.

JP's wife was always a major figure in his personal stability. She also allegedly encouraged him to believe there might be a spiritual dimension to his grand mission. That's according to an ex friend of his.

When the wife got ill the daughter stepped in. A lot of people are bothered by what she's doing.

[quote] The US is especially backwards when compared to other modern societies on gender expression.

Like where? Where is this utopia that you speak of?

I consider myself quite a hardened and tough person but I had tears streaming down my face by the end of this video. The anguish and regret of these kids who've been lied to.

The one who had their nipples as well as her breasts removed broke my heart. That is self mutilation and an attempt to deny not only sex but sexuality. These are girls who don't want to grow up.. The surgeon who did that needs jail. The way the victim was trying so hard on camera to pretend to be ok with it was devastating. Acting for an online audience.

The current trans wave we are seeing is woman on woman violence. This is the damage that women do to each other, exactly like the social contagions of cutting and eating disorders where they encourage each other to self harm and destroy themselves.

How quickly would a thread about the video at R200 get nuked? Within 6 hours is my guess.

I don't get the chopping off the breasts, and I really don't get the complete removal of the nipples, but almost none of the FTMs get nipples that look anything close to realistic, anyway.

The removal of the nipples is an attempt to erase sexual attraction and the sexuality of the body. This is someone saying, I'm freaked out by sex and being judged as a sexual prospect and I want to be neutered. They see maleness as a neutered state because to them, being female is a state where society judges you as a sexual commodity. They don't want that pressure and they don't want adulthood. They don't even want to have sex, they want to exist in a sterile pre-pubescent state.

[quote] The removal of the nipples is an attempt to erase sexual attraction and the sexuality of the body

Yes, as is illustrated in "Reflections in a Golden Eye" by Carson McCullers— where every character is a psycho!

This is the AGP one

^

Can you give us a precis of that 49 minute-long monologue?

It's entirely possible that a lot of the new trans women are autogynephiles, even if she herself is not. It's not a "bad theory" when the actual facts are looked at. People aren't claiming that all trans are autogynephiles, just a lot of them.

[quote] autogynephiles

Those people should find a new label. Just like the so-called "Trans-genders". A more accurate label would be Indecisive, Dithering Transvestites.

It's revealing that Jordan Peterson continues to be so reliant on his daughter, and I don't mean it's revealing of anything good. This is Mr. Women Are Attracted To Strong Male Leaders himself, remember. Mr. Men Need To Be At The Head Of The Family, the rock for their wife and children. Go ahead and tell me I'm being mean but can you deny he fell apart at the crisis point? The point his wife needed him the most? By his *own* metric, he failed as a husband. And then he fell into this creepy (to be clear I mean psychologically creepy, NOT sexually creepy), ongoing dependence on his own daughter, who shows absolutely none of her father's arguably redeeming traits. Peterson's fame has brought him a lot of money, but it also means he's playing out his personal psychodrama in public - and I see no hint he understands how profoundly he has failed to live up to his own standards.

Well isn't he just saying that life is hard, and you don't give up when you fall? You pick yourself up and you carry your burden. He never said people don't fail if they follow his advice, or that it's a disgrace to fail. Failure is a part of life. The key is to not give up. Stand up and carry on.

[quote] isn't he just saying…

Or is he saying…?

Either way this transvestite is lousy at communicating a message to an audience.

Natalie is reading this right now.

[quote]Natalie is reading this right now.

So what!? DL gonna call a cunt a cunt, regardless of whether said cunt actually has a cunt... *shrug*

Hideous, disgusting degenerate

Not disgusting or degenerate. Just in need of a job, a purpose and a sense of self. The wealth that allowed Natalie to navel-gaze all through college and well into adult life wasn't necessarily a gift. This latest transgender wave is overwhelmingly the product of white upper middle class affluence and neuroticism.

Natalie claimed she was romanced by a jock called Chad (yes really) for over a year, but dumped him when she realised she was actually 100% lesbian. Now she's seemingly not dating or fucking anyone as she deals with the joys of being a "trans lesbian".

Peterson is on Joe Rogan again. He is very positive and buzzy; I haven't heard him like this in a very long time. The weight of the world is either off his shoulders now or he's on a new antidepressant.

I enjoy that Joe Rogan, one of the stupidest of that entire crew of internet-assisted white guys, is the one whose cock must be sucked in order to 'make it' in that space. No one dare call him out in any serious way, including the genuinely accomplished and intelligent ones.

According to Datalounge, Joe Rogan is not white.

Isn't he Italian?

R221 Irish and Italian I believe.

It's an epic podcast. As always, Rogan has forced the conversation back to mushrooms. I'm waiting for UFOs after that.

Please don't ever describe a Joe Rogan podcast as "epic" again, R223.

the world's oldest incel

Contra or Peterson?

Peterson is talking about doing kundalini yoga as a mind-expanding experience after Rogan demanded to know why sensory deprivation tanks aren't a part of his daily routine.

Peterson sounds happy again.

I wonder if Contra Points is happy.

I've never understood why anyone would see surgery and chemical warfare on their natural sex hormones as a path to contentment.

[...]

[quote] Stop defending Jordan and the insane idiot

So you've come here to say you HATE both of them?

Both of them should be cancelled?

[...]

So you hate both of them?

I just watched her for the first time—her J.K. Rowling video. It was somewhat informative and engaging but it was also really childish half the time (e.g., the sarcasm, the self-interrupting, ad hominem "arguments").

There's not much intellectual rigor; she's generally mainly just declaring things as absolute truths, kind of like a professor giving a introductory-level class lecture to undergrads, often uncritically quoting as support others who have done the same in writing.

What happened to her? Is she taking a break from YouTube?

She takes forever to make new videos, has a drinking problem, and also takes breaks for her incessant feminising procedures. She's at home right now, on an elaborately designed set, drinking a cocktail and reading these comments, before planning her next step towards full acceptance as a lesbian.

More like Cuntrapoints.

This Absurdist Creation is the American version of Titania McGrath.

Rich, indulged, too much time on their hands.

Titania McGrath is a brilliant satire.

[quote] before planning her next step towards full acceptance as a lesbian.

This will never happen.

Andrew Doyle will be accepted as a lesbian before ContraDicktion.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Bergdorf was the one telling minors to DM it.

^ I'm guessing the wannabe-woman named themself after Marilyn Monroe and the Fifth Avenue luxury department store.

[quote]Bergdorf was the one telling minors to DM it.

I beg your pardon? Explain, please, for those of us OOTL.

R242, going to sleep. I'll find some links for the whole story and report back tomorrow. 'K?

Good deal, r243!

Bergdforf is fully ideologised, she thinks "whiteness" is a genocidal condition that needs an extreme "remedy". Contra is just a rich kid building a case for the legitimacy of her lesbianism (I mean autogynephilia) and she doesn't actually buy most of the neo-Marxist crap she parrots from her excessive time in the Humanities department.

[quote] Bergdforf is fully ideologised

…with a fake name and fake body parts.

They look as childish as Tom Daley and quite unequipped to go on TV and argue on behalf of this new transvestite, race-baiting ideology.

I've never been impressed by Monroe's intellect - she just repeats ideological mantras like a fucking robot. In another life she would have been a religious nut or a communist.

OMG

The English have discovered a new label, the Demisexual.

I hate fake sexualities. White middle class hets want victimhood so much. Cunts!

R249 You're right. I just feel erased.

That chick in R248 needs to shut the fuck up and start toning those legs. She is way too young to have such an out of shape body. Respect your body or it won't serve you well as you age. As in you won't be able to fucking walk. I suggest she start with hamstring and quad exercises that will also strengthen her knees. You need your knees.

Fat legs and short shorts are an American tragedy.

Contra virtually wanked off Peterson in one of her videos.

Was she pulling her penis, R253?

You mean her "GIRLDICK"?

DICK OR NO DICK?

Contra hasn't produced a new video in SEVEN MONTHS.

I think reading this DL thread sent her into therapy.

Interesting take down of the Autogynephila self own

I went off her when she referenced a "Donna Summers" (plural) album.

Proved she was a hetero man.

I see she's melting down over Musk buying Twitter. A required opinion for a cliched Marxist Twitter tran.

She also says her long overdue video is being held up by an illness that affects her ability to do video work. So in other words, facial feminisation surgery gone wrong.