I had no idea about Queen Liliuokalani from Hawaii

Are we sure (s)he wasn't a "two-spirit"?

Is it tragic? They weren't slaves over there, she just lost her crown around the same time many royals lost their crowns in Europe. They were an isolated small island nation, what did they expect to happen? It was valuable and strategic. The Queen forgot that power is power. Titles don't mean shit if you don't have the guns and manpower. They are still those in Hawaii that like to pretend they aren't a fully formed US state, not an island in distress. You lost, shit happens, enjoy paradise and preserve your culture.

Many other counties scattered in the pacific are shit-holes. Hawaii for its faults is doing a LOT better than many islands in similar situations.

Americans are like kryptonite to anybody who is nonwhite and self sufficient, OP.

Come on, R2. The US did what it did in several other places around its borders - flooded it with its own citizens, threw its weight around to 'protect' them and then was 'forced' to annex the country. Classic imperialism. Hawaii was doing fine before it was destabilised and colonised.

I don't know r3. My family came to America as slaves from Africa. Life sucked, but generations down the line I get to live a very comfortable middle class life in a first world nation. I worry about my vacation plans over the real-life shit people in less fortunate situations may have to worry about.

It's not all doom and gloom. Even those Hawaiians have the option of moving about the world as an American. There are certainly tons of benefits to being an American, even in 2021.

Also benefits to be out ally. Stop painting with such a broad brush.

r4 and it turned out alright since we get this vast nation with so many resources.

Also, it was a bit different than imperialism. America was expanding its borders, similar to how things were being done and had always happened in Europe. Technically, most of the land was "owned" by European powers and taken. Even Mexico may or may not have been an independent nation when we took the crown jewel, the west coast. Technically, the Louisiana Purchase was the crown jewel thanks to the Mississippi River.

But we weren't moving into spots to just exploit in the current form of the US, we were moving in to live there. Hawaii was almost an imperialism system, but we ended up really like it so it became a part of the union so that's very different then sat the UK with South Africa or France and the Caribbean.

Either way, we moved in because we moved her. Same shit happened in south America, yet not enough white folks moved down there to make the same impact, outside of select nations down there. Mexico is a construct of Spain, but you don't see people complaining, because they had a revolution or two.

[quote] Is it tragic?

On a human level, yes. The image of her arresy thanks to a bunch of sugar merchants breaks my heart.

[quote] For myself, I would have chosen death rather than to have signed it; but it was represented to me that by my signing this paper all the persons who had been arrested, all my people now in trouble by reason of their love and loyalty towards me, would be immediately released. Think of my position, – sick, a lone woman in prison, scarcely knowing who was my friend, or who listened to my words only to betray me, without legal advice or friendly counsel, and the stream of blood ready to flow unless it was stayed by my pen.

— Queen Liliʻuokalani, Hawaii's Story By Hawaii's Queen

R2 STFU and read the history of Hawaii. The British French and USA played major roles in the history of Native Hawaiians.

Queen Lil was an excellent composer. She wrote approx 160 songs. Most of them beautiful pieces.

"My family came to America as slaves from Africa."

Us too! Please help us get back home!

r8 what does her music career have to do with the topic at hand?

Read the thread title Plus this is DL. We're interested in the Arts.

She apparently (reputedly) wrote the iconic perennial favorite "Aloha Oe".

And I've known about her since grade school. There was a great book series from the 70s about Amerian women from various historical periods for intermediate readers in my school library. Ever heard of the performer/ dancer Lotta Crabtree? Or Jessie Fremont? Lots of interesting women who've been largely forgotten.

King Kamehameha invaded/conquered all the other islands from the Big Island (Hawaii) and created one Kingdom. So he's a hero just because he had the same ethnicity but if people from a diff ethnicity do it, "evil colonialism?"

r5 I was very intrigued by your post. It brings to mind something which I've often wondered about but didn't feel as it would be appropriate to ask anyone but I will ask you. I am assuming you are African-American and I'd like to know if you feel that you are happy to be where you are, happy to be an American even though your whereabouts resulted from very ugly and very vile events. Was it worth it?

I represented the interests of Native Hawaiians in the UN Sub Commission for Human Rights. There is no history more tragic on the planet than theirs in my opinion. Lovely people with "Big Aloha Spirit" who were thoroughly trashed by Europeans and the USA by disease and aggression. They nearly went extinct like the native Tasmanian people.

Before the HowIies arrived spewing Christianity gays were accepted. Even one of the Kamehamehas was gay and he lived with his partner in the Palace.

Europeans did give Native Hawaiians a written language though. Until then all of their history was oral.

There is a strong separatist movement in Hawaii. I support them, but good luck with that. Here's one of their popular songs.

Did she have sex with her brother? That was common for the royalty.

Jesus, R2. Imperialist much?

[quote]My family came to America as slaves from Africa.

Based on your propagandistic post, I find that laughably difficult to believe.

I peeked to see if there were any descendants. I think they all died childless!.

[quote]Based on your propagandistic post, I find that laughably difficult to believe.

Because all African Americans must think and behave EXACTLY as YOU believe and all the same as a monolith.

It's "haole," not "Howlie," R15.

R21 yeah that could be a typo but when I read that it made me doubt the person's cred as having worked on anything Hawaiian.

[quote] So he's a hero just because he had the same ethnicity but if people from a diff ethnicity do it, "evil colonialism?"

Why the deflection? Does the later action lose any impact or gravity by this comparison? Is rape worse when the victim is a virgin not a hooker? I'd say the US actions stand on their own. No need to gauge them against other, prior events. If it makes you feel better I call both scenarios evil. Feeling better now?

Finders keepers

R23 not really. It's called a "double standard." Obviously murder and pillaging is wrong, period.

But it's funny how the prevailing narrative is "oooh, evil England, Evil Euroupeans" i.e. WHITE people for invading "indigenous" people's lands.

Yet, no one EVER talks about the fact that:

1) those same indigenous people often did the same things to themselves or other tribes (which to them were probably just as "foreign" as "europeans" or

2) we don't know who was living there prior to the "indigenous" people. e.g. for all we know there were some other groups of people living in North America prior to the tribes we currently refer to as "Native Americans". Or other tribes that were killed/displaced by the tribes that happened to have been there by the time the Europeans got there. We simply don't know.

3.) no one ever talks about the Arab imperialism/colonialism that spread throughout much of Africa and even Spain. And even today there is still SLAVERY going on in parts of that world.

But we assume that "Euro"=invaders and colonialists, slave traders and non-Euros (i.e. non-Whites in most people's eyes) are innocent people.

Donovan's Reef

I've been to Hawaii - two different islands even!

Imperialism, colonisation,, warfare, annexation are at the core of every civilisation in human history.

I became interested in the history of the people of Hawaii and found it fascinating reading.

Tightly connected maybe, but don't think they're at the core.

R30, which nation in the world hasn’t been formed by overthrowing a former power, or a land grab from another tribe, or a full-scale invasion?

Nice bangles...

I went to the palace she was exiled to in Honolulu.

She was kept in one room I think.

I remember the audio tour ended with Bill Clinton issuing a formal apology to her.

I've seen the movie "Hawaii" (1966).

The separatist movement has growing support. The actual narrative for me was learning about the history, then seeing what happened in August when the governor of Hawaii made a statement asking tourists to NOT visit Hawaii because the hospitals and utilities were being maxed out. Poor neighborhoods have continuing water problems while the resorts and hotels get first class service. People are just sick of it. Meanwhile, I see three of my FB friends posting that they're travelling to Hawaii! Like, nobody knows there are big issues to resolve.

Why the hell is OP greyed out?

r35 they are Americans so they have the freedom of moving to 49 other states if Hawaii doesn't offer them their preferred employment and housing. Everyone else moved around to make this nation work for them, those Hawaiian residents are Americans so they have tons of options.

^^ clueless

The Okinawans (Ryukuans) have very similar problems. There's an independence movement there, too. America opposes it because it has military bases there. As in Hawaii.

If Hawaii had remained homogeneous and sovereign, progressive Westerners today would be complaining about how racist they are, and demanding that they open their borders to foreign masses (as with, e.g., Japan today). The "free movement of peoples" thing is just postwar American neocolonialism.

As mentioned above, I'm sure the Mauians and the Kawaiians felt that Kamehameha and the Hawaiian Islanders were "colonialists" too.

R41, any proof that majorities of Mauians and/or Kauaians ("*the* Mauians and the Kawaiians") felt that way before the overthrow of the monarchy? Since you're "sure"...

Having studied Hawaiian history in college, I am under the impression that such separatist feelings were as common as, e.g., Shikokuans wanting independence from Honshu today—i.e., uncommon. "Hawaiian" as an ethnic and national identity was quite strong before Western missionaries came, in large part thanks to the monarchy.

Moron R42, I'm talking about before the Westerners ever got there. When King Kamehameha "united" the islands (i.e. conquered them and decided to turn it all into ONE KINGDOM under HIS domain.

You think they liked that?

R43, I'd like to see your evidence that majorities of Mauians and "Kawaiians" (as you call them) viewed Kamehameha and his forces as "colonialists". It was no more "colonialist" for him to formally annex Kauai as it was for the shogunate to replace a semiautonomous clan on Shikoku with one of his own choosing.

Again, if you didn't take Hawaiian history, what's the point of your speculating?

I'm done here. Take care.

You think the people on the other islands LIKED Kamehaha invading and killing some of them in the process at the time?

Wow, your classes on Hawaiian history really paid off! Well at least you can spot a typo in a rarely used word ("Kauaiian"). Good for you!

Yes, OP, I join you in weeping for the denizens of that benighted, blasted, godforsaken wasteland, Hawaii. To think, they could have been another Nauru (with the help of you true-blue Aussies, mate)!

Trivia Fact: Hawaii is the only place where there is a royal palace on American soil

[quote]In 1790 Kamehameha's army invaded Maui with the assistance of John Young and Isaac Davis. Using cannons from the Fair American, they defeated Maui's army at the bloody Battle of Kepaniwai while the aliʻi Kahekili II was on Oahu.[26]

[quote]Using traditional Hawaiian spears, as well as muskets and cannon, they killed most of Kalanikūpule's forces. Over 400 men were forced over the Pali's cliff, a drop of 1,000 feet. Kaʻiana was killed during the action; Kalanikūpule was later captured and sacrificed to Kūkāʻilimoku.

R47, AHEM.

I thought all you bitches supported abolishing monarchies.

I love monarchies. It’s always sad and upsetting when trashy peasants depose them. It’s like a piece of glamor is gone from the world.

Hawaiian leaders weren't kings and queen. They were selected High Priests and High Priestess. Not bloodline monarchs. King and queen are titles Euros gave them.

Isn't the movie Hawaii about another Queen?

[quote] Yes, OP, I join you in weeping for the denizens of that benighted, blasted, godforsaken wasteland, Hawaii. To think, they could have been another Nauru (with the help of you true-blue Aussies, mate)!

R46 I’m not doing that at all! I know nothing about Hawai’i and found the Queen’s letter from prison - and her incarceration - heartbreaking.

(And yes, Australia’s record in the Pacific is abysmal.)

Is the Lani Kai Lani Luau named after her?

The general ignorance here regarding Liliʻuokalani is astonishing. The illegal overthrow of a sovereign state, recognized by European and Asian leaders was and remains illegal and immoral.

It was a crime committed by greedy missionaries to steal the land and control the workers, most of whom were indentured Hawai’ians whose culture, arts and language were stripped away and replaced by typical religious control. This remained the law until modern times.

Shameful acts. Not unlike the religious right today demanding culture only reflect their bigotry and myths.

Even the Spreckels sugar baron from San Francisco said "oh, hell no this is wrong" so he packed up and left Hawaii. He felt Hawaii should be for native Hawaiians so he absolutely opposed annexation.

This Gay is hilarious Such a sincere performance of Aloha Oe which Queen Lil wrote before her departure to the USA and to Queen Victoria's jubilee.