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Who really fingered Anne Frank?

Decades later, it's still not known how the Nazis discovered Anne Frank, her family, and four others in their secret Amsterdam annex during the Holocaust.

Tonight, “60 Minutes” speaks with a former FBI agent leading an investigation into the theory that they were betrayed.

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by Anonymousreply 175March 28, 2022 6:33 AM

... is that really the best headline for this?

by Anonymousreply 1January 16, 2022 10:35 AM

OP = Ghost of Joan Rivers

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by Anonymousreply 2January 16, 2022 11:46 AM

Did somebody mention fingering?

by Anonymousreply 3January 16, 2022 11:57 AM

Well, it had to have been that daam Peter Van Pels.

by Anonymousreply 4January 16, 2022 12:36 PM

Jesus, OP.

by Anonymousreply 5January 16, 2022 12:55 PM

Tasteless header post.

by Anonymousreply 6January 16, 2022 12:58 PM

[quote]Who really fingered Anne Frank?

Her brother. Normally, that would be unacceptable. But given the circumstances, it was the best choice.

by Anonymousreply 7January 16, 2022 1:05 PM

She wrote about sexual attraction to women in her diary. I definitely don't remember reading those parts in my paperback copy - the bastards edited it out.

by Anonymousreply 8January 16, 2022 1:08 PM

"Knowledge, motive, and opportunity." That's a standard law-enforcement technique that this former FBI guy is applying for resolving who betrayed them. I'd love to hear his answer. From what I understand, the person who did was never documented, or that documentation was destroyed towards the end of the war.

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by Anonymousreply 9January 16, 2022 1:17 PM

[quote] Who really fingered Anne Frank?

Fingered? I know what that was like early in my career. She WAS a Belieber.

by Anonymousreply 10January 16, 2022 1:19 PM

“Che” Diaz

by Anonymousreply 11January 16, 2022 1:22 PM

Miep Gies was often seen walking along The Prinsengracht, smelling her fingers and smiling.

by Anonymousreply 12January 16, 2022 1:29 PM

The audience.

by Anonymousreply 13January 16, 2022 1:31 PM

Probably a neighbor if I had to guess. But who knows it could have just as easily been someone walking by the house who saw or heard something. The Dutch appear to have been major tattle tales when it came to reporting to the Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 14January 16, 2022 1:55 PM

ff for the subject line. For God's sake, weirdo.

by Anonymousreply 15January 16, 2022 2:01 PM


by Anonymousreply 16January 16, 2022 2:27 PM

r8, the bastard was her father. He edited the diary before publication. Plus, even if he wanted to include it, the 1950's publisher never would have.

by Anonymousreply 17January 16, 2022 2:31 PM

Given that she and the diary became famous years later, there may not have been records kept (or destroyed), because it wouldn’t have been viewed as a significant event, just more innocent people found for the Nazis to murder.

by Anonymousreply 18January 16, 2022 2:35 PM

From what I heard about her, it was probably more like fisted rather than fingered……..

by Anonymousreply 19January 16, 2022 2:38 PM

The diary was written by Grace Paley. And Yma Sumac is Amy Camus, a nice French jewish girl from Brooklyn.

by Anonymousreply 20January 16, 2022 2:41 PM

It was Peter!

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by Anonymousreply 21January 16, 2022 2:53 PM

Has anyone actually watched this docu and can spoiler it for me? Or is it worth watching?

by Anonymousreply 22January 16, 2022 3:35 PM

For Amsterdam Canal Belt real estate I would have led the Nazis right to them.

by Anonymousreply 23January 16, 2022 3:55 PM

R23 Ooh, details, how expensive is it?

by Anonymousreply 24January 16, 2022 3:57 PM

[quote]It was Peter!

He wasn't even born yet.

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by Anonymousreply 25January 16, 2022 4:26 PM

Whoever did, hopefully got their finger amputated.

by Anonymousreply 26January 16, 2022 4:28 PM

R24 about US$1200 a square foot, similar to Manhattan or central London. Prices have doubled in the last 5 years.

by Anonymousreply 27January 16, 2022 4:34 PM

[quote]Probably a neighbor if I had to guess.

Gladys Kravitz

by Anonymousreply 28January 16, 2022 4:50 PM

Gladys and Abner had probably already left for Bergen-Belsen, r28.

by Anonymousreply 29January 16, 2022 5:01 PM

There was a copy of it in my 6th grade class with the lesbianism included.

by Anonymousreply 30January 16, 2022 5:06 PM

It was a worker nearby who heard noises.

by Anonymousreply 31January 16, 2022 5:06 PM

will someone plz watch the show and let us know? - (us who can't see it, for various reasons)

by Anonymousreply 32January 16, 2022 5:58 PM

Trixie Mattel originally wanted to do AF for Snatch Game but was given a resounding "no" by production

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by Anonymousreply 33January 16, 2022 6:04 PM

R7 you say that like it's a bad thing.

A shame her brother didn't have any pebbles nearby.

by Anonymousreply 34January 16, 2022 6:06 PM

It was Kitty, Anne's secret shiksa lover. All this time we were led to beliebe she was "imaginary."

by Anonymousreply 35January 16, 2022 6:10 PM

F&F this thread. From the headline to the posts, it's mostly disgusting and shockingly offensive, even for you boys. Is nothing sacred?

by Anonymousreply 36January 16, 2022 6:14 PM

Oh come on, R36. I'm impressed that DLers have read the book to know enough that they can joke!

by Anonymousreply 37January 16, 2022 6:26 PM

[quote]The Dutch appear to have been major tattle tales when it came to reporting to the Nazis.

If you've ever had dealings with Dutch people, you know what fucking cunts they are.

by Anonymousreply 38January 16, 2022 8:06 PM

Joan Rivers on Anne Frank

"That book has no ending! The Nazis are coming up the....."

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by Anonymousreply 39January 16, 2022 8:10 PM

I read the book an old paperback edition when I was in middle or high school a gazillion years ago and her same sex attraction was expressed. I know the book had been edited for privacy concerns but it was included that she was brought to tears by the female body. That was the gist of it. I was surprised it was included and never forgot it. I found it very moving.

by Anonymousreply 40January 16, 2022 8:17 PM

r40 though, that would be disputed by many, however of the time period and region, it was commonly expressed. Another tragedy of the Holocaust was the loss of gay culture/history in the period. There are more lgb stories among the kindertransport - for those having once lived in most cosmopolitan cities of the era and found themselves moved to grossly more conservative communities.

r17 it's a more popular theory among Jews (though no less controversial) than the public that read it in school but generally lack memory of it, just know that it's important, thus afraid to criticize some aspects of surrounding it. There was some disdain in regards to Otto becoming something akin to a parent of a celebrity child that rubbed many the wrong way in feeling he was exploitative in the way he approached it all. And of course, also, that eclipses many other stories... falling into the sanitized history box and the censure of Jewish rescuers, spies for the allied forces, fighters that began receiving greater formal recognition only about two years ago among the many holocaust museums and memorials.

by Anonymousreply 41January 16, 2022 8:36 PM

You know, Abner and Gladys could have been in a concentration camp before making their way to Morning Glory Circle. It could have been a background story.

by Anonymousreply 42January 16, 2022 9:17 PM

Were they betrayed by teen Nazi cooter?

by Anonymousreply 43January 16, 2022 10:04 PM

It was Rolf from Sound of Music

by Anonymousreply 44January 16, 2022 10:19 PM

Visiting the Anne Frank house in Amsterdam, I saw the opened bookcase and entered the rooms. I wonder how they kept quiet as beneath the apartment was the workplace. Next to the gift shop several videos were airing and nothing was mentioned about who could have "fingered" the family and their other occupants.

by Anonymousreply 45January 16, 2022 10:22 PM

Had Anne lived she would have grown into a lesbian creative writing professor at Columbia Uni in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 46January 16, 2022 10:22 PM

the sound of a toilet flushing gave them away

Really that is what happened -

by Anonymousreply 47January 16, 2022 10:25 PM

Maybe her pussy stank.

by Anonymousreply 48January 16, 2022 10:48 PM

[quote] She wrote about sexual attraction to women in her diary.

I don't think it could be called "sexual attraction." She just has a natural curiosity; her sexuality was just beginning to stir. In her diary she wrote about feeling moved when she saw the nude figure of a woman in different forms of art. And she said she once asked one of her female friends it they might "feel each other's breasts" as proof of their friendship (the friend declined). I don't think she had any lesbian tendencies, she was just becoming interested in sexuality. She was very into boys and always talked about her "male admirers." She had a strong crush on a boy named Peter Schiff, a good looking kid three years her senior. She wrote a lot about him in her diary. And of course she became involved with Peter Van Pels, simply because he was the only boy around. He was unprepossessing and not very bright, but I guess he was better than nothing. But by the time her diary ended she had lost interest in him.

I'm not surprised the Franks and the rest of the inhabitants of the annex were discovered. They slipped up frequently when it came to keeping their secret hidden. Although told not to bring any pets Peter Van Pels brought his cat. I'm sure the workers in the building wondered why they saw bowls of cat food around.

by Anonymousreply 49January 16, 2022 10:49 PM

George Soros

by Anonymousreply 50January 16, 2022 10:53 PM

We can’t all put our fingers in the dike.

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by Anonymousreply 51January 16, 2022 10:54 PM

R49 FFS, if she'd written similar about men, you'd never have written that crap excusing it away. She was bi at minimum. It's plain as day if you read those passages.

by Anonymousreply 52January 16, 2022 11:31 PM

^no she was probably trans!!!

by Anonymousreply 53January 16, 2022 11:34 PM

WTF? Everyone knows who the betrayer was. It was a Dutch Nazi.

by Anonymousreply 54January 16, 2022 11:35 PM

The cat would not have been an issue. Many businesses kept cats to keep mice and rats away. Mr. Frank's business involved spices and pectin, so all those food items in the warehouse...they probably had a cat or two there already.

by Anonymousreply 55January 16, 2022 11:39 PM

“After I came here, when I was just fourteen, I began to think about myself sooner than most girls, and to know that I am a ‘person.’

“Sometimes, when I lie in bed at night, I have a terrible desire to feel my breasts and to listen to the quiet rhythmic beat of my heart.”

Speaking about her best friend Jacqueline van Maarsen, the teenager continued: “I already had these kinds of feelings subconsciously before I came here”.

She added: “I remember that once when I slept with a girl friend I had a strong desire to kiss her, and that I did do so.

“I could not help being terribly inquisitive over her body, for she had always kept it hidden from me.

“I asked her whether, as a proof of our friendship, we should feel one another’s breasts, but she refused.”

Anne added: “I go into ecstasies every time I see the naked figure of a woman, such as Venus, for example.

“It strikes me as so wonderful and exquisite that I have difficulty in stopping the tears rolling down my cheeks.

“If only I had a girl friend!”

On the official Anne Frank website, Jacqueline wrote about her relationship with Anne.

“We had a close relationship and I liked being with her, but she laid a claim on me and I didn’t know how to handle that.”

She continued: “I always had to prove to her that we were ‘best friends’. Her passionate declarations of friendship were too much for me sometimes.

“Then I met up with other friends and she was jealous and unhappy.”

“Years later I read that she had written about this in her diary.

“But before she went into hiding I had been able to tell her where the limits were.

“She accepted this and it only improved our friendship and made it stronger.”

by Anonymousreply 56January 16, 2022 11:44 PM

Anne was a lesbian

by Anonymousreply 57January 16, 2022 11:54 PM

sounds like a borderline lesbian

by Anonymousreply 58January 17, 2022 12:06 AM

[quote] Everyone knows who the betrayer was. It was a Dutch Nazi.

Yes, that certainly narrows it down, R54

by Anonymousreply 59January 17, 2022 12:07 AM

Whoever ratted her out I'm certain the grandkids now are one of the 3,000,000, unelected administrative state failures "working" in Washington.

by Anonymousreply 60January 17, 2022 12:18 AM

R33 That Trixie Mattel skit as Anne Frank is hysterical.

by Anonymousreply 61January 17, 2022 12:30 AM

[quote] She was bi at minimum. It's plain as day if you read those passages.

You are an idiot. Nothing she wrote ever suggested that she wanted to have sex with females. You just want Anne Frank to be a muff diver. But she wasn't.

by Anonymousreply 62January 17, 2022 12:35 AM

[quote]Is nothing sacred?

Let's hope not. That is the day DL dies.

by Anonymousreply 63January 17, 2022 12:35 AM

[quote] Anne was a lesbian.

Since she never had sex with a female I'd say you're full of shit. Also her fixation on boyfriends (she made much of how popular she was with boys) would also seem to indicate she was not drooling over women's private parts.

Her relationship with Jacqueline van Maarsen seems very typical. Lots of girls do a little experimenting with girls when they're that young. It's no confirmation of homosexuality. It's very natural and normal. I knew girls who were very possessive of their little girlfriends. But they didn't all grow up to be lesbians.

by Anonymousreply 64January 17, 2022 12:46 AM

(At 3:46 in the short video.)

Although they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, these investigators believe it was Arnold Vandenberg, a prominent Jewish businessman. He, apparently, had "some kind of leverage" with the Nazis, which protected him from being deported by them. The video clip doesn't mention the motive Vandenberg had for betraying the Franks and the other inhabitants of the annex.

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by Anonymousreply 65January 17, 2022 1:01 AM

More is explained in this article:

[Quote]But the FBI man's sixth sense kicked in. Arnold van den Bergh was a prominent Jewish businessman with a wife and kids in Amsterdam. After the invasion, he served on the Jewish council, a body the Nazis set up, nefariously, to carry out their policies within the Jewish community. In exchange for doing the Nazis' bidding, members might be spared the gas chambers.

[Quote]Turned out, he was living an open life in the middle of Amsterdam, Vince Pankoke says, only possible, if Van den Bergh had some kind of leverage.

[Quote]Vince Pankoke: I'd call him a chess player. He thought in terms of layers of protection, by obtaining different exemptions from being placed into the camps.

[Quote]As it happened, Van den Bergh—who died in 1950— had come up before, in a report from the 1963 investigation. Though astonishingly, there was little apparent follow up by police.

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by Anonymousreply 66January 17, 2022 1:13 AM

[quote] Since she never had sex

Why would you be expecting a child to be having sex with anyone? Anne was clearly a Lesbian not a libertine.

by Anonymousreply 67January 17, 2022 1:44 AM

I'm a guy and based on her own words how could she be anything but gay. It's pretty clear. Plus her friend said as much.

by Anonymousreply 68January 17, 2022 2:11 AM

Otto Frank apparently knew it was Van den Bergh but decided not to reveal it was him because he and his family had been betrayed by a fellow Jew. And also that Van den Bergh gave up addresses of potential hiding places to the Nazis without knowing specifically who was there.

by Anonymousreply 69January 17, 2022 2:23 AM

It’s sort of amusing that the American FBI man in charge of this has the last name Pankoke which is related to the Dutch word for pancake-“pannenkoek.” And an extremely popular restaurant near the Anne Frank House is called…The Pancake Factory.

by Anonymousreply 70January 17, 2022 2:26 AM

Oops, it’s actually called The Pancake Bakery.

by Anonymousreply 71January 17, 2022 2:27 AM

R69. Have you got a link?

by Anonymousreply 72January 17, 2022 2:29 AM

[quote] I'm a guy and based on her own words how could she be anything but gay. It's pretty clear. Plus her friend said as much.

It's NOT "pretty clear" you fool. And her friend said no such thing. And if you think sexual curiosity on her part between the ages of 13 and 15 made her beyond a shadow of a doubt gay then you're really fucked up. Plenty of kids are curious about the their same sex peers and some even fool around with them a bit. But doesn't make them undeniably, indisputably, gay. Considering her pronounced interest in boys were it's pretty incredible to assume she wanted to have sex with females. For someone supposedly "gay" she sure as hell had a REALLY big interest in the opposite sex.

I've read "Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl." Also "Roses From The Earth: the biography of Anne Frank" by Carol Ann Lee. And "Anne Frank: the book, the life, the afterlife" by Francine Prose. And probably the definite biography of her "Anne Frank: the biography" by Melissa Muller. They were all good books And none of them said that Anne Frank was gay or bi. I guess that's because there was no evidence that she was.

by Anonymousreply 73January 17, 2022 2:31 AM

I've got the book about the famous dreadful Berlin Jewish Jew-catcher, but I can't bear to read it and I can't remember her name.



Stella Goldschlag

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by Anonymousreply 74January 17, 2022 3:10 AM

Why, of course, she was Bi.

Take that, Oleebia.

by Anonymousreply 75January 17, 2022 3:24 AM

You can read all the books about Anne Frank you'd like. But Anne's words are enough to understand her interest in females. Are you a homophobe? The name-calling suggests so.

One of my interests is to research and bring to light gay male historical figures. It's important to our history and for others to know as well. I'm pleased to learn this about Anne Frank here.

by Anonymousreply 76January 17, 2022 3:54 AM

Please, Anne was not a lesbian. If she were a lesbian, she would've built sound-proof walls.

by Anonymousreply 77January 17, 2022 4:42 AM

r77 If she would have been a Justin Bieber fan, there's greater odds that she should have been a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 78January 17, 2022 4:57 AM

[quote] But Anne's words are enough to understand her interest in females. Are you a homophobe? The name-calling suggests so.

If you think Anne Frank was gay because of what she wrote in her diary you are certainly jumping to unfounded conclusions. Nothing she said indicates that she was gay. She sounded like what she was: a child just beginning to develop her sexuality, curious about a lot of things. Also, admiring the female body as depicted in art forms doesn't make someone gay, either. And if you want to talk about her "words", well ALL throughout her diary she talks about her interest in BOYS, a hell of lot more than her comments about girls.

"The name calling" is a result of my distaste for absurdity. And boy is it absurd to scream from the rooftops "Anne Frank Was A Lesbian!" of "Anne Frank Was Bi-Sexual!" There's never been any evidence to support those assumptions. People who think that just WANT her to be gay, despite the fact that she was in fact what might be called boy crazy.

by Anonymousreply 79January 17, 2022 5:00 AM

Oh fuck off, you stupid straight person. It's very, very obvious from Anne's own words.

by Anonymousreply 80January 17, 2022 5:32 AM

[quote] . It's very, very obvious from Anne's own words.

No, it's not, asshole. Nowhere did she state "I am a lesbian and I want to eat pussy." But from the way you pathetic morons are carrying on you'd think that's exactly what she said.

by Anonymousreply 81January 17, 2022 5:39 AM

She pretty much did say that she wanted to have sex with her friend and that a naked woman's body sends her into ecstasies, or did you miss that whole thing.

Did she say anywhere "I am straight and I want to eat dick?"

by Anonymousreply 82January 17, 2022 5:42 AM


by Anonymousreply 83January 17, 2022 5:43 AM

She was way too young for anyone to rule definitively on her sexuality. At best, she was exploring her sexual identity. We don’t know whether bicurious, bisexual, etc. whoever keeps saying that she couldn’t be gay is silly. We don’t know how she would’ve identified as an adult, so we are all speculating anyway. Who knows!

by Anonymousreply 84January 17, 2022 5:52 AM

[quote]Have you got a link?

[italic]What convinces the team even more is the fact that Otto Frank seems to have attached value to the accusation against Van den Bergh. “We were betrayed by Jews”, he is said to have once told Parool journalist Friso Endt. He also frustrated the investigation into the raid by calling the then still untraced SD officer Silbernagel, according to the researchers, because that Austrian might reveal unwelcome details.

Van Twisk thinks that Otto Frank wanted to keep Van den Bergh out of the wind for fear of anti-Semitic attacks. In addition, Van den Bergh had died of throat cancer in 1950. “He knew that Van den Bergh had children, including daughters like himself. Did he have to drag him through the mud posthumously and damage those children too?”[/italic]

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by Anonymousreply 85January 17, 2022 6:01 AM

[quote] She pretty much did say that she wanted to have sex with her friend and that a naked woman's body sends her into ecstasies, or did you miss that whole thing.

Where did she say "I want to have sex with my friend?" And where did she say that looking at a woman's body in an artwork made her pussy wet? I read her diary, but I didn't see that anywhere in it.

by Anonymousreply 86January 17, 2022 6:22 AM

Phyllis Hammerow's legendary portrayal of Anne had lesbian undertones.

by Anonymousreply 87January 17, 2022 6:23 AM

[quote]I've read "Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl." Also "Roses From The Earth: the biography of Anne Frank" by Carol Ann Lee. And "Anne Frank: the book, the life, the afterlife" by Francine Prose. And probably the definite biography of her "Anne Frank: the biography" by Melissa Muller.

How could they write whole books about someone who died when she was just 15? - so I guess she was just 13 when she went into hiding.

by Anonymousreply 88January 17, 2022 7:14 AM

even the Daily Mail are onto it now

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by Anonymousreply 89January 17, 2022 7:15 AM

I thought she had a crush on her male cousin? Was that just made up to straight wash her?

by Anonymousreply 90January 17, 2022 8:06 AM

I'm with R84. She was exploring and living under extreme circumstances. Whether she ended up gay, bi or straight....who the hell knows

by Anonymousreply 91January 17, 2022 8:10 AM

A good stylist could have done wonders.

by Anonymousreply 92January 17, 2022 11:44 AM

I think this is the 60 Minutes episode:

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by Anonymousreply 93January 17, 2022 11:47 AM

I believe this new possible answer, and why Otto Frank chose to not publicize and pursue it. It's appalling to realize that one of your own kind betrayed you, especially when it's about an horrific event like the Holocaust, which affected all Jews.

by Anonymousreply 94January 17, 2022 2:44 PM


Agreed. Many members of DL don't have a working knowledge of child development. or even show much affection for the little dears!

by Anonymousreply 95January 17, 2022 3:33 PM

Surely whoever broke into the warehouse? Petty thief who made a deal with the authorities by turning in some Jews? What I always wondered is how Miep and the other helpers got away with helping them? Wouldn’t those connected with Mr. Frank and who worked at the office be looked at sideways by the Nazis after 8 people were found hiding in a tiny space right above?

by Anonymousreply 96January 17, 2022 3:41 PM

Remember too that the Nazis gave people like Van den Bergh a soft of Sophie's Choice: Either give up a hiding place for Jews, or we deport you and your family to the gas.

The Germans were sadists. too. So they'd threaten Van den Bergh's entire family, friends, co-workers--we will kill anyone and everyone you knew... if you don't give up more Jews to us.

Think about the insanity of being so obsessed with hunting down a handful of Jewish families at a time when you are already losing the war on both fronts.

The Germans did the same thing with gays.

by Anonymousreply 97January 17, 2022 3:45 PM

Nothing bombshell here but the decades old suspicions of Otto Frank himself. Another Al Capone’s safe piece and much overplayed by 60 Minutes.

by Anonymousreply 98January 17, 2022 3:51 PM

[Quote]Remember too that the Nazis gave people like Van den Bergh a soft of Sophie's Choice: Either give up a hiding place for Jews, or we deport you and your family to the gas.

The American military used a similar tactic to purge gays out of the service. The would promise a caught gay an honorable discharge if he or she would divulge the names of other gays in uniform.

by Anonymousreply 99January 17, 2022 3:58 PM

R49 never heard of bisexuality which is more common among females

by Anonymousreply 100January 17, 2022 3:59 PM

Anne was pretty

by Anonymousreply 101January 17, 2022 3:59 PM

My mother looked like Anne. Later in life I would realize she also looked like Judge Judy.

by Anonymousreply 102January 17, 2022 4:01 PM

Yeah sure it could have been the Jewish guy but I don't think it's correct to jump to that conclusion given how many other people could have ratted them out. Realistically no one will ever know for sure at this point.

by Anonymousreply 103January 17, 2022 4:03 PM

Slightly different consequences for not complying though R99

by Anonymousreply 104January 17, 2022 4:27 PM

r22, it was a jewish accountant. He did it to save his own family. Anne's father new this but didn't reveal because it would have made anti-Semitism worse. He had a letter that was written evidence. I just read an article that reviewed the documentary.

by Anonymousreply 105January 17, 2022 7:55 PM

[quote]Think about the insanity of being so obsessed with hunting down a handful of Jewish families at a time when you are already losing the war on both fronts.

There are historians who have said that if Germany hadn't been using so much manpower and equipment to conduct the Holocaust they could have won the way. The operation of the Holocaust drained too much of their resources.

by Anonymousreply 106January 17, 2022 7:55 PM

Won the WAR. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 107January 17, 2022 7:56 PM

[quote] How could they write whole books about someone who died when she was just 15? - so I guess she was just 13 when she went into hiding.

The books talked about many things: Anne's parents and other relatives, her friends, her life before she went into hiding, the Nazi takeover, the office workers who hid the Franks and the others, the life in the annex, the life in the camps, Otto Frank's return and eventual publication of his daughter's diary, the impact the diary had, what became of various characters in the story after the war. There was plenty of material for a biography.

by Anonymousreply 108January 17, 2022 8:56 PM

Sometimes the Germans just killed the informant's families anyway. The Nazis broke their promise to spare the lives of Stella Goldschlag's parents. They were deported to the Theresienstadt concentration camp; from there they were later transported to Auschwitz and murdered. Goldschlag's husband, Manfred, was also deported in 1943 to Auschwitz, along with his family. But Goldschlag kept working for them because she had no choice.

by Anonymousreply 109January 17, 2022 9:01 PM

Yes R106

Nowhere was this more true than in Hungary.

The Sad Story of Hungarian Jews In a Nutshell

The Hungarian government was allied with the Germans for much of the war. While they mistreated their 845K Jews, they did not mass murder them or allow the Germans to send them to the camps.

With the Soviets steadily advancing in 1944, the Hungarian government surrendered to the Soviets, but the Germans rushed in to occupy the country which contained valuable oil fields and they set up an even more fascist puppet state.

At the same time, Eichmann and the Gestapo came to Budapest to supervise the deportation of the Jews,

Unlike Poland, everyone knew what was going on and various Jewish groups tried to pay the Germans for freedom, diplomats from neutral countries like Raoul Wallenberg were issuing passports, etc.

The Allies considered bombing the rail lines to Auschwitz but opted against it as there was fear the Germans would retaliate by killing even more Jews and Allied POWs.

Plus the Germans were diverting troop trains and putting resources into sending Jews to Auschwitz rather than fighting the Soviets. This was after D-Day, in summer and fall 1944.

This is why the majority of Shoah survivors are Hungarian--they were only in the camps for around six months before the war ended Though most of them were killed even in that short time span.

by Anonymousreply 110January 17, 2022 9:01 PM

German actor Kurt Gerron was coerced into directing a Nazi propaganda film intended to be viewed in "neutral" nations showing how "humane" conditions were at Theresienstadt. Once filming was finished, Gerron and members of the Jazz pianist Martin Roman's Ghetto Swingers were deported on the camp's final train transport to Auschwitz. Gerron and his wife were murdered in the gas chamber immediately upon arrival on 28 October 1944, along with the film's entire performing entourage (except for Roman and guitarist Coco Schumann). The next day, Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler ordered the closure of the gas chambers.

by Anonymousreply 111January 17, 2022 9:08 PM

I still giggle at one DL poster. The thread was if we could go back in time, what would we do.

One person wrote, “I’d go back and tell Anne Frank that hairdo really doesn’t work for her.” 😂

by Anonymousreply 112January 17, 2022 9:20 PM

[quote] One person wrote, “I’d go back and tell Anne Frank that hairdo really doesn’t work for her.”

Actually, Anne Frank was very proud of her thick, dark hair. If her hairstyle wasn't exactly flattering, well, I guess there weren't too many expert hair stylists available to her.

by Anonymousreply 113January 17, 2022 9:27 PM


by Anonymousreply 114January 17, 2022 10:24 PM

I never heard that story at R74. Its absolutely terrifying and grim.

by Anonymousreply 115January 17, 2022 11:56 PM

R115 sounds like she was a self loathing Jew, not doing it for protection. I hope she suffered.

by Anonymousreply 116January 17, 2022 11:59 PM

She did. suffer and like many U-Boats she really had no choice.

Once they caught her she had to keep producing or she would be killed--her family too.

Easy for us to say we'd be brave but hard to know in the circumstances

by Anonymousreply 117January 18, 2022 12:05 AM

they killed her family.

by Anonymousreply 118January 18, 2022 12:07 AM

First the Jews came for Jesus, then they came for the Franks....

by Anonymousreply 119January 18, 2022 12:11 AM

R117 um...

[quote]After the war, Goldschlag, according to author Irving Abrahamson, "convert[ed] to Christianity and bec[ame] an open anti-Semite".[7]

by Anonymousreply 120January 18, 2022 12:17 AM

R115, Stella is an evil Cunt

by Anonymousreply 121January 18, 2022 12:22 AM

When I read the story about the notary, I was disappointed. I thought it would have to have been someone like Charlie Sheen, Kirk Douglas, or maybe even Scott Baio.

by Anonymousreply 122January 18, 2022 12:22 AM

Stella lived till 72. The afterlife is long

by Anonymousreply 123January 18, 2022 12:23 AM

There is no proof linking the notary. It's speculation so don't be disappointed. More shall be revealed.

by Anonymousreply 124January 18, 2022 12:26 AM

Stella Goldshchlag eventually committed suicide at 72 by jumping off a building. Such a disturbed and disturbing woman.

by Anonymousreply 125January 18, 2022 12:30 AM

The depravity and monstrosity of the Nazi regime never fails to astound me.

by Anonymousreply 126January 18, 2022 5:05 AM

Someone mentioned this before, but why was Miep Gies spared if she was aiding the Franks and the other family to hide when the Nazis found them? I read Miep Gies’ book and I don’t recall her mentioning how she was spared or why. Nazis usually executed people on the spot or sent them off to concentration camps for aiding Jewish families in hiding.

Was she friends with the particular Nazis who found them?! Did she pay them off? Provide favors? I’m very suspicious about the silence around her miraculous survival after being found out.

by Anonymousreply 127January 18, 2022 6:51 AM

Woody Allen.

Anne was in his preferred age range.

by Anonymousreply 128January 18, 2022 9:04 AM

R120 left out the full story. People are complex.

At the end of World War II, Goldschlag went into hiding. She was found and arrested by the Soviets in October 1945 and sentenced to ten years of hard labor.[6] Following the completion of her sentence, she moved to West Berlin. There she was again tried and convicted, and sentenced to ten years' imprisonment. She did not have to serve the second sentence because of the time already served in the Soviet prison.

After the war, Goldschlag, according to author Irving Abrahamson, "convert[ed] to Christianity and bec[ame] an open anti-Semite".[7]

Goldschlag supposedly committed suicide in 1994 by drowning in Freiburg.

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by Anonymousreply 129January 18, 2022 9:16 AM

Did they mention Bep Voskuijl's sister?

by Anonymousreply 130January 18, 2022 9:25 AM

[Quote]but why was Miep Gies spared if she was aiding the Franks and the other family to hide when the Nazis found them?

R127 This is what she said in an interview:

[Quote]Did you get in trouble when the Nazis found out that you were hiding them?

[Quote]Of course I was in trouble, but my luck was that the police officer in charge came from Vienna, the same town where I was born. I noticed this from his accent. So, when he came to interrogate me, I jumped up and said, as cheerfully as I could, "You are from Vienna? I am from Vienna too." And, although he got very angry initially, it made him obviously decide not to arrest me. Apart from the shock, the fear and my heart-breaking concern regarding the fate of my friends, nothing happened to me.

So, she charmed herself out of being arrested. She got lucky.

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by Anonymousreply 131January 18, 2022 9:47 AM

R131 thanks for posting that. I suspect there was more than just “we’re both Viennese so I was spared,” but that’s all that Gies said about it so that’s all we have to go on. Given that her husband was part of the Dutch Resistance, I’m even more dubious that that is the full story. To let a Dutch resistance subversive and woman aiding Jewish families go….they were both threats to the Nazis. Just very odd behavior on the part of the officers involved.

by Anonymousreply 132January 18, 2022 11:34 PM

I hadn't heard about Bep's sister, r130. But it could absolutely be the case. Bep wanted no publicity at all, sounds like she felt terrible about what her sister could have done.

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by Anonymousreply 133January 18, 2022 11:56 PM

The secret annex was 450 sq ft. I had an apartment that size in college. It was fine for 1, but I can't imagine sharing that among 8 people

by Anonymousreply 134January 19, 2022 12:07 AM

[quote] The secret annex was 450 sq ft. I had an apartment that size in college. It was fine for 1, but I can't imagine sharing that among 8 people

They weren’t really doing much but sitting around though, were they?

by Anonymousreply 135January 19, 2022 12:10 AM

I read that 450 sq ft figure too but I'm not sure I trust it. I live in about 475 sq ft, and I have been to secret annex, it seemed to be bigger than my apartment. Either way, it still not big enough for 8 people and one toilet that you couldn't flush during the day.

by Anonymousreply 136January 19, 2022 12:14 AM

When I went to the Anne Frank House a few years ago I actually thought it was nowhere near as cramped as I thought it was. It was just a little smaller than a loft apartment.

by Anonymousreply 137January 19, 2022 12:33 AM

R137 but 8 people lived in it.

by Anonymousreply 138January 19, 2022 12:36 AM

Is r137 Darfur Orphan?

by Anonymousreply 139January 19, 2022 12:38 AM

[quote] They weren’t really doing much but sitting around though, were they?

During the day they had a be quiet, but they "moved around." They did things but they just had to stay as quiet as possible.

by Anonymousreply 140January 19, 2022 12:51 AM

I was surprised by how large the Frank hiding flat was. I don't believe that number.

by Anonymousreply 141January 19, 2022 1:27 AM

Were Mep and Biep related?

by Anonymousreply 142January 19, 2022 1:40 AM

Woody finger me. Groom me young age.

by Anonymousreply 143January 19, 2022 8:18 AM

Mep and Miep, Bep and Biep

by Anonymousreply 144January 19, 2022 4:18 PM
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by Anonymousreply 145January 19, 2022 4:23 PM

[quote] Were Mep and Biep related?

No. They just had similar sounding cute names.

by Anonymousreply 146January 19, 2022 8:51 PM

450 sq. feet. 8 People. Considering your other option is losing your life, well, I think I could manage.

by Anonymousreply 147January 20, 2022 2:40 AM

Why did Anne have to share a room with that old man? She could have shared with Margot.

by Anonymousreply 148January 20, 2022 3:18 AM

[quote] Why did Anne have to share a room with that old man?

Because everybody knew she was a lesbian and nothing untoward was going to happen.

by Anonymousreply 149January 20, 2022 3:21 AM

Well done R149

by Anonymousreply 150January 20, 2022 3:29 AM

[quote] Why did Anne have to share a room with that old man? She could have shared with Margot.

Well, they had to put Fritz Pfeffer somewhere. I wondered why they didn't have him sharing a room with Peter Van Pels. Peter Van Pels slept in a small space somewhere in the attic; I always wondered why Anne wasn't in that space but maybe she would have considered it too. small. Anyway, the reasoning was that Anne was a child and Pfeffer was good with children so it was figured they would get along. But they didn't. She was a rather spoiled, full of herself, outspoken teenage girl and he was an old fashioned man who thought that children should defer to their elders without question. Oil and water. She wrote unfairly of him in her diary, making him seem like a very unpleasant, ornery, not very intelligent old man. He was definitely not the dumb cluck she made him out to be. And he wasn't that old; his was in his fifties, like her father, but from the way she talks about him you would think he's much older. He was also attractive to women; his fiance was an attractive blonde much younger than he and they were nuts for each other. He was athletic and was an outdoorsman who liked swimming and horseback riding. Being cooped up in the annex must have been especially hard on him. He also had a son who had been sent off to England to save him from the Nazis. I don't think anyone in the annex knew that.

In her diary Anne named him "Albert Dussel" which translates to "Albert Dunce." Anne could be quite bitchy. Anyway, Pfeffer had the hardest time in the annex because he was the odd man out in the midst of two families who frequently quarreled and bitched at each other. They had each other; he had no one.

In the documentary "Anne Frank Remembered" one of the most moving scenes was when Pfeffer's son meets Miep Gies for the first time. The scene doesn't last long but it's a stunning moment.

by Anonymousreply 151January 20, 2022 5:16 AM

I imagine Anne as a Fran Lebowitz type of gal.

by Anonymousreply 152January 20, 2022 5:27 AM

I wonder if, when everyone was asleep, Peter snuck down and read Anne’s diary?

by Anonymousreply 153January 20, 2022 11:23 AM

Why did they change the names of the others (like the Van Pels’) for the play/film?

by Anonymousreply 154January 20, 2022 2:00 PM

Will we ever see Anne Frank: The Musical?

by Anonymousreply 155January 20, 2022 2:30 PM

[quote] Will we ever see Anne Frank: The Musical?

Already been done. It’s called Yours, Anne

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by Anonymousreply 156January 20, 2022 2:47 PM

Trini Alvarado was too Spanish looking to play Anne.

by Anonymousreply 157January 20, 2022 4:44 PM

R154, they listened to Dutch resistance radio in the attic. There was a radio program which called for diaries of the war experience that would be published post-war. The occupants of the attic knew the war was almost over and thought they had made it. Anne started editing her diary with the hopes it would be published. She changed the non-family member’s names in her edited version because she didnt foresee they would all be discovered by the Nazis, be deported and perish. She wanted to protect their anonymity thinking everyone was going to survive the war and be free soon

by Anonymousreply 158January 20, 2022 6:46 PM

Oh, OK, thanks, R158.

I thought it was done for the play like what was done with the Von Trapp kids’ names in The Sound of Music!

by Anonymousreply 159January 20, 2022 11:21 PM

[quote]Easy for us to say we'd be brave but hard to know in the circumstances

This is so true. I remember seeing a discussion on TV about the Holocaust and they asked some Jewish people who had survived the camps about what they think would've happened if the Jews hadn't been the ones targeted. I'll always remember them saying the thought kept them up at night... because they don't believe the community as a whole would've treated other groups any better.

Everyone likes to think they'd be different and not succumb to this kind of thing. But look at some of the replies posters make on this very site about different groups of people. They are talking exactly the same way as people would talk about Jewish people in the lead up to the Holocaust. I'm sure they think: "oh but this is different" and have 1001 excuses why the particular group they are attacking deserves it, but at the end of the day they are exhibiting exactly the same behaviour and should realise that the anti-semites prior to the Holocaust were justifying their attitudes to themselves in exactly the same way.

by Anonymousreply 160January 21, 2022 12:15 PM

Book publishers apology for the book that claims to know who betrayed her and her family:

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by Anonymousreply 161February 1, 2022 12:35 PM

Anne needed concealer.

by Anonymousreply 162February 1, 2022 12:40 PM

R161. Good to see this apology because there's zero evidence to support the "suggestion" this individual reported the Franks.

by Anonymousreply 163February 1, 2022 3:07 PM

All this time you were blowing me shit for buying Annie her first drum set ... And it was the accountant do squealed!

by Anonymousreply 164February 1, 2022 3:56 PM

The book publisher must think Bep's sister did it.

by Anonymousreply 165February 1, 2022 9:16 PM

I think that if the real betrayer is ever discovered, their descendants would be punished by the public.

That Anne Frank Fonds sounds so uptight about everything.

by Anonymousreply 166February 2, 2022 12:53 AM

[quote]First the Jews came for Jesus, then they came for the Franks....

Then they came for the Beans.

by Anonymousreply 167February 2, 2022 1:35 AM

God, all this fucking publicity about finding out exactly who "betrayed" Anne Frank...and it's all hooey! NOBODY was definitively identified as the person who informed on the inhabitants of the secret annex. All this comes down to is some mercenary assholes who are trying to make money off of Anne Frank by plugging a book about who supposedly tipped off the Nazis to where she was hiding.

by Anonymousreply 168February 2, 2022 1:38 AM

I've pre-ordered "Fingering Anne Frank" from Audible. Looking forward to it.

by Anonymousreply 169February 2, 2022 4:28 AM

Apparently historians believe that the findings of the cold case are erroneous. They’re ceasing publication of the book about the alleged betrayal. I guess that we’re never going to get an answer…

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by Anonymousreply 170March 24, 2022 5:55 PM

R169, Who is it read by?

by Anonymousreply 171March 24, 2022 7:10 PM

R171. Stevie Wonder

by Anonymousreply 172March 25, 2022 12:34 PM

I was molested. Was my house made into a Museum? No.

by Anonymousreply 173March 28, 2022 2:16 AM

[quote]Who really fingered Anne Frank?

Gross, OP!

by Anonymousreply 174March 28, 2022 4:00 AM

[quote]Trini Alvarado was too Spanish looking to play Anne.

She was going for the Sephardic angle.

by Anonymousreply 175March 28, 2022 6:33 AM
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