I'm desperate to move to Vermont

why are you moving if you have no money? Why Vermont specifically rather than someplace else?

Write to Bernie Sanders and tell him you want your free shit.

I love it, too.

You can stay in my vacation home.

Boring and dreadful weather

OP, read about VT's relocation grants...

It is -3F at the Burlington Country Club.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Do you want to move further in North?

Vermont is not an easy place to live. There are few well-paying jobs, terrible winter weather (unless you ski), and a limited amount of rental housing, in most towns, none. Sounds like you need to find a job and save up some money. If you think moving to Vermont will solve your problems, you're in for a big surprise.

Vermont? Why? All it has is tourism, and ugly white people.

R9, exactly! So remote and lack of any culture

Here you go,

It’s a great vacation spot , but horrid year round

OP, you also sound desperate for attention

OP = Alec Baldwin

[quote] why are you moving if you have no money? Why Vermont specifically rather than someplace else?

You know how people always say, "I want to move to Tahiti" or "I want to live in Paris."

I've always wanted to live in Vermont.

It just seems like my kind of place.

I like rural areas, mountains, snow, and cold.

I don't know anything about the people, but I'm pretty easy to get along with.

And Winter doesn't bother me.

Well then, I guess you can’t go-

R9 you seem to know a lot about VT.

Why are there no rentals? I don't understand.

Unfortunately the pay is low and there's no housing and on the off chance you find housing it's only affordable if you live with 5 other people or live in a dump. My apartment is 65 degrees right now with the heat having been cranked all day and space heaters on in whatever room I am in.

I love Vermont but I would strongly discourage anyone from moving here.

R19 I'm still not understanding.

WHY is there no housing?

The people are unfriendly

There's no housing because there's very little new housing and the college students from out of state take all of the housing and drive up pricing. I am not exaggerating when I say that Burlington has less than 1 percent available occupancy. People start looking a year ahead of having to move. All the houses sold sight unseen to out of staters at extremely high prices, pricing out Vermonters.

Cold weather, unfriendly people, no housing available.

I'm starting to like it even more.

R21 Rescue Chick seems friendly.

only when I want to be, I can go entire weeks without talking to someone except my boss at work. And I don't hesitate to tell someone to fuck off otherwise.

The only people with money and housing live in NJ/NY/CT.

Very high rate of poverty and opiate addiction, without the wealth of NYS so limited social programs, etc for those in need.

Yes. Stay in those ⬆️ Klassy states.

OP, where do you currently live? How old are you?

I live outside of Los Angeles, R29.

In my 30's.

And what kind of work do you do?

Nothing, at the moment.

I'd have to find a job in Vermont.

Well what are you trained for? What kind of work would you be looking for?

Anything really, R33.

I just need to find work and a place to live.

I'm not picky.

Well at least you have a plan.

"I'll do anything" is not a plan.

[Quote]I like rural areas, mountains, snow, and cold.

So move to Colorado where at least there's sun. And jobs. And gays.

The trouble with being desperate to move to Vermont is that after a couple of days you'll be desperate to leave Vermont.

Nan?

Nan Michiganwomyn?

Is that you after all these years?

OP - Vermont has a lot to recommend it. One thing...the people are really cool and laid back. The winters are cold. The summers are actually hot these last few years.

There's a lot going on in Burlington; it's a really nice city. Depending on what you do for a living, you might seek employment there. There are high-tech jobs as well as plenty of service-industry jobs.

If you find yourself in Vermont, you're not going to find yourself in a situation where life is totally exciting. But I can see it as being somewhere that a certain type of person might be totally pleased to have ended up. Personally, if I didn't already have my local group of friends and family, if I could draw myself away from them, I think Vermont would be a wonderful landing spot!

I have a friend that was able to guarantee his job at a big company could stay remote and moved to Vermont from NYC over quarantine. He had a couple friends already there but I’m not sure how close they all are. I hope he’s still happy there.

If I could withstand the insanely cold winters and snow (I can't), I would consider retiring to Vermont.

R34 can you escort? There’s only one rent.men / prostitution whore working (description below) the entire state of Vermont…he claims to be 39–which means 49–and better yet: he appears to be traveling through…so the entire state is up for grabs.

BISEXUAL WITH AN INSATIABLE APPETITE BURLINGTON VT 1/3-1/7 Vaxxed and boostered w/proof...ask that you are too.

180 lbs, furry lean muscle guy. Outgoing, laid back, intoxicating green eyes with salt & pepper hair. Very comfortable & confident in both a dominant and submissive role. Truly versatile, I LOVE to Bottom and LOVE to top.

A firm, furry, insatiable ass and a perfect-sized cock with a big head that will hit all the right spots. I can be a total gentlemen, providing the best BF experience, or a total pig to help you realize and experience all of your kinks & fetishes. I am great with first-timers and couples (gay and straight)

I have zero hangups about race, age, or size, there's beauty in all of us.

I do NOT do drugs and that's something that can be discussed if you do.

Available for hourly sessions (minimum 1 hr) and for overnights and weekends, with advance notice.

Texting is the best way to get a hold of me.

Look forward to hearing from you.

I am in Maine after a couple decades in southern CA. We are moving back to the west coast, OR, in the spring. I miss the conveniences of higher population density and I have decided I fucking hate months of dealing with snow.

OP, Maine and Vermont do not have rentals like what you are used to seeing in CA. There are very very few apartment complexes, and one of the previous posters hit it on the nose regarding the kind of rentals that are available: shared living in a dumpy house or if you can afford it and can find one, rent an entire nice house. If you do not have a job you will not be able to afford an entire house.

Another difference from CA is that the in the New England states generally you need three months rent to move in: first, last, and security. Do you have 3k to move in to a dumpy place? Or 8k to move in to a nicer place?

I have a remote job and can move where I want, I just need to stick to certain hours. I would highly suggest you find something remote before you go but I have no clue what your skill set is.

R44 are you at all concerned with what's been happening in the PNW the last few years, with unprecedented and massive heat waves and fires? I also live in SoCal and was considering retiring in the PNW, but climate change has caused me to cross that part of the country off the list. Was just curious if that was a consideration at all before you decided to move to OR.

R45 it is something I definitely think about, but not enough to make me reconsider at this point in my life. BF and I both have family and friends (who also left SoCal) in the state. We will be on the outskirts of Portland to start, and also want to check out the Bend area. We will rent for a year and then decide where to buy.

Vermont is romantic.

It has SNOW!! Unless it doesn't...

Moonlight in Vermont...

Exactly, R49.

I love that song.

There's an Alfred Hitchcock movie, The Trouble With Harry, which is set in Vermont. The movie itself isn't too great...it's dark humor is silly and not his best movie. The visual though....absolutely breathtaking. It was during the autumn, and the leaves are bright with the foliage in the mountains. The quaint home and country store is the epitome of Vermont. The cinematography is the best part of the film and the only reason I'll watch it.

I have lived here my entire life and still am awed by how beautiful it is here

...quaint home and country store *are.... oops..

R52, it’s picturesque, but a dreadful place to live year round

I kind of get the feeling that rescue chick just doesn’t want more people crowding her state. 😆

The Real Housewives of NYC went to Vermont and bitched about it the entire time: cold af, icy snow not good for sking, grey skies, etc. It was fun watching them suffer.

OP, live in Montpelier.

OP, have you ever even been to Vermont?

haha, busted r55! But, everything I said is absolutely true too.

I moved to Vermont once. It was the least friendly place I have ever lived. I was bizarre how cliquish they were. They wouldn’t have anything to do with you if you didn’t have great grandparents buried in the local cemetery.

Bennington is an adorable place. Brattleboro is funky/hippie. Montpelier seems to be popular with vegetarians and granola eaters. Burlington is the largest city/metro area... city population 42,500 , metro area 215,000. I remember visiting Montreal and all the U.S. cable was fed by local stations in Burlington, VT. The ski resort towns have wealthy population...Stowe, Stratton, Killington, Sugarbush, etc.Some of the best fall foliage in the country. One friend from California said he was driving along Route 7 and had to pull over to just look at the foliage is was so vibrant.

For the desperate guy who wants to move there, first I would get a job locally in California for some experience, even if it's data entry, call center or the local supermarket. Something that can transfer. You could also save up some money to make the move. Think in terms of airfare or x-country drive (500) rental deposit (3600), food(300), miscellaneous expenses (2500). If you do move to Vermont, you'll likely need a car, a snow shovel, winter clothing (including shoes or boots), an umbrella.

It's also going to be hard to find a boyfriend, or a sex life if you're gay.

I'm European but I fell in love with Vermont when I watched Baby Boom, the film where Diane Keaton's character relocates to Vermont after she gets fired from her big consultancy agency in NYC. I mean how could you not fall in love with all these picture-perfect shots of the little mountains and the little village with its single little grocery store? It turns out it's just a film.

Now with the benefit of hindsight if I had the choice between the L.A. area and Vermont, hey I think I'd stay in Cali for the sole reason that my body just doesn't adjust all that well with the cold weather anymore. I used to love the snow, the rain, the foggy days... Not any longer. That's why many of the people of my country go the Côte d'Azur (French Riviera) when they retire and just as many people on the East coast head to Florida if they can afford it and provided they can live insulated from all the local craziness.

Verificatia?

The location troll is sometimes volatile.

R62 over the next two decades or so I suspect climate change will render LA semi-unlivable.

A work colleague and her husband were murdered at their vacation home in Vermont by a local.

seriously, don't move here

Unless you're a skier, just move to Madison, Wisconsin

R10 is racist scumbag.

Madison Wisconsin is boring.

-rescue-chick, what are your go to shopping destinations. For example, regualar grocery shopping, gas (if you own a vehicle), home things (lighting, small furnishings), booze?

the internet zw r71!

Does Montpelier accept meat eaters, R61?

I was quickly scrolling past and swore I read “I am desperate to love Voldemort.” I had to come back for a double take. Good luck with your move tho, OP.

I’m desperate to move to Kansas.

I’m desperate to move to Alabama

I am desperate to move my ass up the stairs to get in the shower.

Montpelier accepts meat eaters. It's gotta be free range and locally sourced, though.

There are some fantastic restaurants and shops. It's a nice little town–hard to call it a city.

I was once in Montpelier for work in a January. Grim, grim, grim.

I would move to the Trapp Family Lodge and sing in the mountains every morning.

OP- I forgot how old you are but I suspect that I am way older than you- 43. Let me give you a tale about wanting to live in Maine.

I just HAD To buy my first house this past summer because I was old and it was THE THING TO DO- and maybe it was , based on current mortgage rates- I do not care any more. And at that point it appeared I would be working remotely forever. So let's move to Maine.

I thought I had found the most affordable home I could at some standard that was adjacent to the ocean- in Maine about 2 hours from where I lived (and still live- more on that in a minute). I love southern Maine but that has become pretty unaffordable (on paper, I could buy a pricey home- but in real life, I do not want to be house poor and not able to have fun) And my job is always a question mark- who wants a 3000K + mortgage in this fucked up world?

I did this very fast and felt it was right. Then a week later I tried to back out- it felt too far and the area did not vibe with me when I went and visited again- It felt dead and old. Anyway, I was talked out of it by realtor and I talked myself back into it. Lesson- SPEND SIGNIFICANT TIME IN THIS PLACE WHERE YOU THINK YOU WANT TO LIVE. I am an idiot.

A month later- I don't know- a few weeks before closing (These sellers wanted a long closing as they were moving, ect, so I was cool with it) I really did NOT WANT TO LIVE THERE. I tried to back out again, signed the thing to forfeit my deposit and of course I was threatened with lawsuit. Understood. I got my first attorney ever (who incidentally loved that area where my house was), she went over contract and said I was really fucked based on that state's real estate contract. I said how if I offer them another 10K for their trouble (and I would have) She says that I should buy the place and rent it out. Okay- totally illegal and mortgage fraud. Great attorney. (You can do this after residing in the home for 1 year) I proceeded with the deal and tried it out. For 2 months. Moved some of my things- but not all..

Long story short, I kept my apt the entire time (a SHITHOLE in a really awesome, vibrant area where the average home now starts at 700K). And I am so glad that I did. I fucking HATED that part of Maine, I learned a few things about the property (as to why it had no wildlife- it was FUCKED- the place felt like it was on a burial ground to me) I love birds, deer, and nature in general. There was NOTHING.

Yes, it absolutely sucks living in a dump in an area you really cannot ever afford to buy in. But I realized that this is my HOME. And if I want to stay and buy a place in the area, I will need a 2nd job or a new career entirely. I will be responsible for this.

And Vermont was a territory of mine at work for a long time. It is NOT a fantasy land like you think. And neither is Maine. BOTH suck for jobs. The entire state is nothing like Burlington or Stowe (or Portland). Vermont's roads are atrocious to drive on in the winter because of all the hills.

And a scene forever etched in my head- When I called a Rental Management Company about renting out the home I purchased (I wanted them to see it despite the fact that I could not rent it out for a year) The woman looks at me and sneers (with a missing front tooth!!!)

"WHY MAINE!!???????"

Shit, bitch. Smartest words ever spoken to me.

Next day I called a realtor- He sold that place in 48 hours. I lost around 15K and it was worth it. (It actually sold for 10K more than I paid, but because I only put 12% down and closing, ect- and had to pay the commission) I did not make a penny.

I packed my shit and got the hell out of there in October.

I had to pay rent and a mortgage for a few months too, but the smartest thing I ever did was not let go of my apartment. I had 5 months left on the lease anyway.

Very few things in life are the fantasies I have created in my head. And Maine was the farthest thing from what I thought. Especially north of the Tooth Line.

Tread cautiously OP. And I hope VT is everything you dream!!

Great story, op.

Good lessons too.

Wbat city is your apartment in?

My mid-thirties nephew moved out of his parents' basement and to Vermont a year ago. He met a woman there in an online forum, flew out to visit her, fell in love (his first time) with her and the area, came back home, packed a bag and left.

He's been living with her, but she just works as a cashier in a local shop, so I have no idea how she affords her place, unless her parents have been subsidizing her rent.

At any rate, he only found a job a couple of weeks ago. He's been living off his savings for the past year. It's remote contract work, so it pays well, but it took him bloody forever.

This is his first life adventure, so it's still a big thrill to him, but nobody but the happy couple expects it to last. Still, he swears he'll never return, partly due to Vermont's beauty, but mostly because he does NOT want to get stuck having to care for his parents in their declining years. Can't blame him for that.

I'm so curious about The lack of rentals in VT.

Why not build more units?

I'm sure the demand is there.

Don't do it. Everything's super-spaced out so if you go anywhere it's at least a 15 minute drive. Gets lonely fast.

Figure it out yourself you fat cheap whore!

R85- NAILS IT!!!! You don't have any idea what its like to be so far from everything- The isolation and loneliness - It is the worst feeling.

R84- New England- especially the pretty parts- is horrendous for rentals. Many of them are in old houses. There are so little where I live where even 10 years ago you could find kick ass places if you could afford the rent. Now there is NOTHING. And renting is massively expensive in VT. For the lack of jobs and what companies actually pay- Vermont is worse than Maine. Just the cost of living and low paying/non existent and/or tourist industry jobs. Its not what people think. If you have a degree in a field with demand- you can probably find a job. But Vermont has a lot of small private businesses- I don't know how normal folks do it.

I think it as bad for renters now as it is for home buyers.

Where I have to give Massachusetts props- There are jobs. Decent paying jobs and a lot of companies. Yes- owning a house is expensive and the rent is expensive- but in Massachusetts- it is at least possible. And fuck, I believe the tax rate is worse in both Maine and VT vs Mass.

I worked with a guy once who loved VT- He actually found a decent job at Cabot Creamery. This was around 2015. The salary (which would have paid 65-75K in Mass- was 35K. He was shocked.

Many people from surrounding states drive to Massachusetts for work. Not Vermont though- Its too far generally.

And no joke- as I found it interesting then as I do now.

When I worked in construction adjacent field in Vermont (and a few other states) I learned that Construction Companies could NOT FIND HELP. Especially General Contractors finding good subcontractors. A state with no jobs.

Why? People make money from hunting! And they don't want to work.

I didn't believe this until over a year's time every client of mine said the same thing. And this is 5 years ago. We can't find anyone, its hunting season.

So I am not surprised at that grant link above looking for construction workers.

It must be 10 times worse now since the pandemic.

Well, there's a phrase you don't hear everyday [And one I would NEVER utter].

However, I think you should make every effort to go there. The good parts of the country are already overcrowded.

I wish you well in your quest!

Damn, is there any good part of the country to live in now, that's not ruined by climate change, or doesn't have housing or job issues, etc. etc. etc.??

I never thought that Vermont would be a destination for many refugees. I guess one can find a way to make their life there.

[Quote]For decades now, Vermont has welcomed refugees from around the world: more than 8,000 since 1989, just over 1 percent of the small state’s population. Vermonters have been almost Canadian in their big-hearted welcome of the displaced and persecuted, primarily from Somalia, Sudan, Central Africa, Bhutan and Bosnia. They’re generous donors of furniture and household goods for new arrivals. They’ve taken Somali refugees into their homes to help them adjust to American life. And their schools have stepped up with English-language classes for kids from abroad.

r91, that's actually how MY family wound up here! We (well, my family) were one of the first immigrants shipped in on a special program that is still around today. I intentionally live in an area of Burlington that many more recent immigrants live because it reminds me of my Nana. it's weird how regardless of color or region of the world, most immigrants are very similar to each other in ways that are wildly different than long term American families.

R90 You must be a foreigner? I'd rather live in the US (with all our problems - particularly over the past 5 years) than any other place on earth. But I won't be going to Vermont anytime soon. I have no desire to even visit. Despite it being a "Blue" state, it would still be a shitty place to live. lol

Even over a decade ago there was a lack of contractors in VT. I owned a house in a ski resort town and the contempt for out-of-state non-resident homeowners was palpable. I would have thought it was just me and chalked it off to homophobia but it was pretty much universally acknowledged by everyone I knew needing a contractor. I had a hard time getting anyone to work on the house. The worst was when they would start a project and then not show up to complete for weeks or months at a time. Or use/stay in my house while doing a project. Yes, I had a roofer move his entire family in for a week, seeing no issue at all since no one was there, until someone showed up.

The local contractors mindset was a.) work until you make enough money to get by and enjoy seasonal recreation and b.) work for out-of-staters only if desperate for money. I finally started bringing contractors from NY, paid them and gave them a week to use the house.

NO OP DON"T MOVE TO WALMART!

BESIDES I THINK IT'S ILLEGAL.

R94- Confirmed- They hated all of folks from Massachusetts/NH as well.

And we had a hard time with our staff there as well-

The employees were very rebellious and hated working (I actually loved our VT crew- their undercurrent of hostility and FUCK YOU ALL) made me like them.

But in terms of building a construction or services related company in that state with the mindset that I saw- No thank you!

Just based on what I have seen in the current states I work in (no one wants to work now- at all) Vermont must be a fucking TRIP.

And actually there is 20 something chick on Youtube who lives in VT and has a blog. She sells really nice beauty products on Etsy. She's making it work too. And makes Vermont look like heaven on earth!

Only Rescuechick, the ski slopes, and the Vermont Country Store are making this shit work!!!! Remember that OP!!!

Actually, OP needs to move in with Rescuechick and start a blog on Youtube.

I would offer but my dog would eat OP. for real r81!

R8 when describing physical distance, the correct word is "farther." Easy to remember, it begins with "far." "Mike could walk no farther and would not discuss it further."

[quote]All the houses sold sight unseen to out of staters at extremely high prices, pricing out Vermonters.

This sounds just like the movie Baby Boom!

R98- I love reminders like this. You are a Schoolmarm.

Contact Andy Cohen to pitch the new series Queer in Vermont: Rescue Chick and OP.

Episode 1: dog eats OP.

Episode 2: Rescue chick makes stew with remnants

Episode 3: Rescue chick sells OP's belongings on Etsy

Episode 4: OP's mother comes looking for OP. Dog eats her.

Rinse, repeat.

R101, I have a better pitch:

Episode 1: Dog eats Andy Cohen.

Series cancelled after one episode due to Andy Cohen being eaten by a dog.

R88 - it isn't that they make money from hunting. It's that hunting season is such a big deal in certain states that practically everyone hunts. That means during hunting season so many people take time off to go hunting, businesses are short-staffed. In Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan factories have been known to close for the first few days of deer hunting season for this reason.

They go back to work after they've had their hunting trip, though it may be a couple-three weeks for the diehards.

r102 and r101, you're both too funny! but, my dog wouldn't be allowed to eat Andy Cohen, I feed him only the best 😉

R103- Is that true?? That may be exactly right and my memory may be fading. That's even more hardcore to me. They aren't even really making money but getting food. Vermont is gangster.

(I really dug my VT clients) The born and bred ones-They were ALL secret gangstas and hated everyone, basically.

And at my office it was was well known- You did NOT want a Vermonter mad at you- they were the NASTIEST if you pissed them off.

And their Vermont accents (and yes, there is one- its kind of Canadian- but thicker) would become very distinct when they told you to fuck off and die.

My chillest customers were in the maple trade- they were awesome-

Most of my dealings were in central VT and north into (and past) Burlington

yeah, we're pretty chill until you piss us off. Then you're fucked. Like, fucking fucked.

R106, eww so intimidating. Lol

Don't do it, OP.

Winter in New England is like death.

It's so fucking bitterly cold today that I packed up my dog and am headed to OP's place.

The deadbolt on my door has actually frozen and has ice built up on the inside side of the door. My big guy was tipping over doing his morning pooh. The thermostat is cranked and I woke up this morning to it being 50 degrees in the house. After running space heaters for the past 4 hours it's now up to a balmy 62 degrees inside.

I have a coughing fit every time I go outside because it's like being punched in the lungs and throat.

of course, being a real Vermonter I am wearing basketball shorts, a fleece poncho and I just put my slippers on because I couldn't feel my feet and admitted defeat (no pun intended).

It's so cold that I actually had to shut my bedroom window. That's serious shit right there.

Rescue-chick, from your posts you're either grossly exaggerating because you want people to stay away from Vermont (side note: fuckin' A girl, you're doing a good job of it) or, and no offense intended, you just live in a really crappy apartment or house that is grossly under-insulated or has poorly sealed windows and doors. Honestly, you act as though you're living in a hut in the Arctic circle. I say this with love, of course.

P.S. I love Vermont as a place to visit. But only in Summer or Fall.

Vermont has the ugliest people

r110, it's grossly under insulated and needs new windows. but, I pay about half of what anyone else pays for a 2 bedroom and I have 2 floors which is unheard of for a Burlington rental. I also have privacy and a yard. But, even people in well insulated homes right now are running space heaters, every single place.

The door lock freezing is common to Vermont and it really is so cold out that dogs have to be carried back in and it hurts to breathe.

bloop

No wonder less than a million people live there r112

yes, its negative 2 degrees and with wind it feels like negative 20 degrees with gusts up to negative 40 degrees. There's not a heating system around keeping up with that in Vermont.

That’s dangerous r115

Well I can see that your dog has plenty of toys on the floor to pay with LOL

it is. the news headline (for real) is: frostbite warning, recommendation is to stay indoors '. top headline. r117, he has 2 large bins of toys and I cyle them out so he thinks he has new toys every time I vacuum

the white is ice

Fuck, you DO live in the Arctic circle.

no lies were ever told by me r120!

I know things have changed but there are still some things about New England. The further north you go the more unfriendly the people will be especially in the smaller towns. My mother was from the top of NH. I tried communicating with someone from the town a few years ago and they were so cold. I even proved to them that there was a street there named after me in the town and they were still very distanced. My grandfather had always told me I would be welcome in that town but only because My mother's entire family was from there going back to the 1700's. You will find this with small towns all over the country but I found upper New England to be the worst.

I know climate change has changed things but my grandfather used to have to get on the roof of his house to shovel it off every time that had a major snowstorm which was often.. But they keep the roads amazingly clean. I live in NW PA because it is similar but not as beautiful. The only other place that looks quite similar is British Columbia in Canada.

If you go be prepared to be alone for a while until you can meet someone that is friendly and I would stay in a very populated area in order to make friends with anyone.

I was going to say the same thing as R20. It must be like living in Russia.

RC is your family originally from Serbia? Italy? Somalia?

Where did they immigrate from, if you don't mind my asking?

Are you a second-generation American?

It's a cool story.

R122 clearly didn't pay attention in R98's class.

[quote] The further north you go

It's distance, so the correct word is FARTHER!

r123, Germany (on my Nana's side) and Ukraine (on my grandfather's side). i am a first generation American (first in my family born here). I didn't feel like a 'real' American like everyone else is until my son had a baby with a Mexican girl. Now, we're real Americans, melted pot at its finest!

Which city in Vermont is the gayest?

Bennington, maybe Middlebury too.

Very nice, RC.

Congrats!

I just checked the weather forecast for Burlington.

It's expected to get down to -8 today (Saturday), and then slowly warm up again.

But wait until next weekend.

It'll be below zero again by Thursday and last through next weekend!

r124 thank you. I sat and debated it but guess I got it wrong.

Sun is shining here on the snow in the Rockies, RC. At 8000 feet. 24 degrees. Must sound balmy to you.

I'm sweating even thinking about it r131!

Rescue Chick, what are you eating on this cold winter day (I love when you tell us about foods that you cook)?

haha, I am working most of the day so I just had french fries with cheese sauce for lunch and will probably bake the other loaf of bread of the dough I made. Maybe do it as rolls and have turkey stew from the freezer. I don't really have time to cook today so I am super glad for the freezer! but, the overtime is super nice :)

I was looking forward to expressing some of these sentiments. I lived in VT for a decade. Rescue-Chick has this all covered.

The only thing I would add is how predatory the property management companies are. Be careful.

Also, White River Junction is pretty gay.

And close to Hanover NH, if anyone is looking for Ivy League lacrosse players. Or an Orozco mural.^^^

R134 What kind of cheese do you use for cheese fries? Do you sprinkle shredded cheese and then put it in the oven for a moment until it melts or do you buy some sort of cheese in a jar? If so, what kind? I’m asking because I’ve always wanted cheese fries at home but I’m not sure how to make them.

[quote]I am super glad for the freezer!

In your case, isn't "the freezer" just synonymous with "anywhere in the apartment"?

r135, that's EXACTLY why I tolerate the half dozen icebox apartment issue days. My landlord does use a property manager but he only owns this building (with two apartments) and does it because he inherited it. He doesn't do it for money and is completely hands off. I am extremely fortunate!

r138, I actually cackled!

r137, when I say cheese fries I mean fries that I dip in cheese sauce, not poured over, I don't like that. I make a roux, add milk (and water), add a few inch cubes of velveeta, add sharp cheddar. sometimes I add jalepeno jack.

Ugh. I had to do Vermont in the fifth grade for my state report. How am I going to impress with such a boring-ass state? I fantasized about getting Missouri instead. I ended up with only the second highest score because there's only so much you could do to make Vermont fun.

Now I have an ex-college roommate who lives there and it fits his crotchety stubborn crabby personality all too well. He was such a god when college aged though. He used to do nearly naked yoga in the living room. So sexy

Rescue Chick - have you ever been to Peru, Vermont where they filmed Baby Boom? If so, have you seen the house that was in the movie?

r141, I have been to Peru- Vermont is REALLY tiny so a Vermonter has been to every town in Vermont quite likely. I don't believe I did see the house and if I did I wouldn't have known because I haven't seen that movie unfortunately.

R142 I think you would like it! It’s about a woman who leaves NYC to move to Vermont after she “inherits” a baby, and just about everything said about Vermont in this thread happens to her (provincial people, freezing weather, house falling apart, bought house before even seeing it, etc).

Speaking of eating, I usually assemble my dog's dinner on Saturdays (just cut up a buch of raw meat, mix with white beans and either oatmeal or quinoa and eggs) but the meat refuses to defrost so I had to scrounge.. He'll be dining on homemade meatballs, his usual yogurt, a can of tuna and some of a package of... Buffalo chicken rice from one of those envelope packages that my son left in the cupboard. He'll be thrilled but I expect his gas to be astonishing.

This thread should actually be titled:

Rescue-Chick from Vermont here. Any questions?

Well I posted a few times. May I just add that the seacoast areas of New England in the winter are just underrated and dynamite?

I love the zero degree weather and took a 2 hour walk up the coast this morning.

Its fucking magical. And I would suspect that Rescue Chick can con firm that the mountains of Vermont are also magical.

I do get beardsicles- which are icicles on your mustache and beard- It looks really funny.

Its basically from your nose running and I will leave you to your imagination.

I love winter in New England and its a beautiful place.

Parts of New England may be HELL but not where I live. Its a blessing to me.

r146, I completely agree with you. I don't actually enjoy being out in the snow but there's few things more beautiful in the world than that magical moment catching sight of a sunny, fresh snowfall especially when there's still somehow foliage on the trees. it's like seeing fire inside a diamond.

I am often out in the weather when I have to go to/ from work (less so currently obviously) and it doesn't bother me but I don't seek it out for enjoyment. I love the quiet after a major snowfall too. It's like the universe is holding its breath.

R147- YES girl. YES. Well said.

Do we just need an “I’m Rescue-Chick, ask me anything” thread.

haha, I am not that interesting and far too honest. but mostly not that interesting.

"Hi, I'm Rescue-Chick and I live in Vermont.

Jealous, Bitches?"

Vermont is boring

OP, if you’re hot and willing to put out, I might know of a summer internship. Just keep your dirty mouth off the Skye vodka.

It's lovely, I had a mother who lived there once.

it's quentisential picturesque Vermont today. 20 degrees, big fluffy snowflakes, no wind, white landscape. It's so beautiful out today.

This is blunt, OP, if you are unemployed during a time like this where most employers are desperate to find workers, you're either lazy or unemployable. Moving cross country to a weird state where you know no-one and seem to have no money or skills is a terrible "plan".

Why worry about money? Just hitchhike up there and see what happens. People are always happy to give other people money and to support them in all sorts of ways. You'll probably end up living in a very pleasant house with a view of forested mountains, and you'll eat healthy and delicious organic food. People think far too highly of planning ahead, saving up, developing in-demand skills, etc. You never know what tomorrow has in store, so it's better to just close your eyes tight and trust to luck.

R157 truly needs to fuck off and die.

OP sounds doofy and sweet enough to believe this CROCK OF SHIT.

And R157- VERMONT AIN'T IT!!! This ain't Baby Boom, Miss Nancy Myers-

OP has nothing to lose. Just do it.

Come visit me, OP!! I'm now the agent of my grown child whom I keep legally obligated to dress and be photographed for publicity in baby outfits at all times, so that we may continue profiting from her ever-expanding meal recipe lines. :)

R156 has fallen for the right wing lies.

R158 seems to have problems.

Uhhh, I lived up there for a decade, and between coal oil and groceries, you MUST plan ahead. All those little hamlets just shut down during certain weather conditions. Also, you can’t count on Foliage Season to make some money to see you through the winter.

How long does Foliage Season even last anymore, rescue-chick? Three weeks?

Wasn't this a troll thread from the get-go? I'm confused.

You're delusional, R161. OP seems to be sleepwalking through his thirties with no plan and no job and no money. That's hardly a rightwing lie, dear, it's life. Do you work?

R44 I lived in Maine and then NH at one time and I’m amazed I survived without being killed by a drunk driver…they could be the drunk driving capitals of the world!

RescueChick I'm looking up the weather in Burlington, VT right now and it says -9 degrees F and foggy.

Is that right??

I didn't realize that fog could form in such cold temps.

Brutal weather and standoffish people. No thanks

yes r167, it's a weird, eerie thing but it happens. I just got up (I of course take the big guy out earlier and we go back to bed) but it's actually sunny out today so I think your specific weather report may have been off for today.

Rescue Chick - what food are you making today?

haha, I am catching up on things around the house that I have neglected from working the past few weekends. I miscalculated my dog's meat order timing and need to stretch until Thursday so I cut up a chicken and made a disgusting pot of beef bone marrow with quinoa, brown rice and some spit peas and steel cut oats to mix in the raw chicken and eggs. That's probably not what you meant though!

For dinner I am making baked pasta. Penne pasta with ricotta, homemade tomato sauce and cleaning out the freezer of the last small amounts of ground beef, homemade meatballs and loose Italian hot sausage and herbs from my kitchen wall garden. I will throw a bit of parmesan, sharp provolone and mozzarella on top when it's done and return it to the oven until the cheeses are bubbly.

I will make enough for several days because I have so much house stuff to catch up on.

R171 Sounds delicious!

mine or the big guy's r172? 😉

Rescue Chick- You are clearly not from an Italian Family

Its BAKED ZITI, baby!

(Even if its not Ziti)

haha r174, I am German! Weirdly, german food is pretty much the only food I don't know how to make really. I did order a bunch of stuff for making bread now that I successfully made plain white bread. I am pretty excited about making whole wheat, multiple grain bread. I am going to get so much fucking fatter though so I hope baking bread is a passing fancy.

-11 in Burlington right now.

Brr.

at least it's not windy.

I just saw the thread title as, "I'm Desperate to Vomit." Time for an eye rest...

Vermont is one of those places that engender either fierce love or hate. The winter is tough, but the spring snow summer and its legendary autumns are gorgeous. Vermont prides itself, ior it used to before all the Woke Liberals started moving in, on its independence and self-sufficiency. It's not so much unfriendly as ornery.

It's like everything else: if that's to your taste, you'll love it. If it's not, don't go there. Some people like being lady alone and being able to have a cup of coffee without the person sitting next to him start spilling his life story

UVM is a good school and you can check for jobs there. So is Saint Michael's.

Burlington is a nice small city. It's right on Lake Champlain. The winters follow the pattern of the rest of the NE, only moreso. But like the rest of the NE, those winters are getting shorter. This is a La Nina year, so winters across the NE are having a much colder winter than the last few years. The winter gets tougher the farther north you go.

Vermont's health care is alleged to be amongst the best in America.

If you do well on your own but are ready to put in work meeting people (the colleges are very good for that, or will be again one day) are a confident driver who keeps the car winter ready, and can find a decent rental, it might be worth a try.

There's also the rest of New England accessible. Boston is a 3-hour drive, Portland is an interesting visit, and NY is less than an hour flight.

But if you're not experienced in living in the area, you really do have to focus on Burlington. Starting out for the first time in the state someplace like Rutland or Marshfield or St. Johnsbury, would be inadvisable.

Of course there's the south and Bennington, but if you think jobs and housing are hard in Butlington...

A few years ago, Vermont was paying people $10,000 to move there, I don't know if that's still on offer. Worker shortage.

The people I know there won't live anywhere else. It's either your thing or it's not.

But I'd advise making sure you have at least a modest financial cushion when you get there. It's the ki d of place where living cheap and poor doesn't have quite the feel it might in NYC and London.

Good luck.

^*spring summer (not snow)

P.S. The speing green is blinding in May, and the thing about those winters is that they enhance the joy in spring as nowhere else.

It's a very double-edged sort of place.

Thanks R179, that was informative and nuanced.

Is it snowing in VT?

Is Rescue Chick OK? Is she out shoveling snow?

she is laying on the couch watching Dopesick. it's really good btw, if you haven't watched it yet, I recommend it. O, and I am eating mint chocolates just because. how are you?

we have had sporadic very light snow today. nothing I would qualify as snowfall but the wind has made all the difference in pleasurableness. When I left the house for work this morning there was no wind and it was downright lovely out. When I left the office a few hours later it was windy and back to brutal. wash and repeat throughout the day.

You live in LA? Your want to move to Vermont? You can't get here from there.

GMB at r185, do you ski/ enjoy winter activities? I feel like I may discourage people because I don't do winter activities so don't give a well rounded review of Vermont winters

R81 I remember you from when you were first thinking about buying a house in Maine. Sorry it didn’t pan out. I’ve had a similar experience, buying a house impulsively, thinking it was my dream only to realize I’d made a horrible mistake. Now I’m sadder but wiser I guess. Dreams aren’t real and chasing after a dream can backfire real quick if it involves buying a house!

I hear the sap is running.

r186 occasional cross country skiing and a little hiking.

It's a nice place to live. I worked remotely for two tech companies since moving here in 2003. I currently work for Agilent, split between the office and home. It's nice to be able to drive 20 minutes and go hiking with the dog, camping, or seeing nature. Lakes are rivers that are easy to get to for swimming or boating. People are, for the most part, accepting and don't really give a shit if you're gay or quirky or your political beliefs. My town clerk is a conservative Republican, yet she shows no favoritism when doing the clerk's job.

We can vote by mail, but I prefer to go to the meeting on Town Meeting Day. It's a great way to connect with others in town after a long winter and share a meal. Conservatives and MAGATS are trying to change Vermont, but I'm not sure how successful that is going to be. Small towns and union school districts demand political participation if you want them to reflect your politics.

In some ways, it is like living in another country. Vermont doesn't have a lot of chains in other parts of the US. No Arby's, Jersey Mike's, Arby's for example. One Costco and one Target. The Foodie scene is disappointing. Lots of NECI graduates who think something like chicken fried chicken livers on waffles with red-eye gravy is edgy and good food. It's not. No decent Mexican (Texmex or California Mexican), no decent Chinese. There are a few good Italian restaurants. And for some reason, there are Nepalese or Himalayan restaurants on every other corner in Chittenden County.

Weed stores will be open sometime in October 2022. Liquor stores are state agencies but may be in private businesses such as Hannaford Supermarkets or beverage stores.

R187- Yes. I was so excited. What a damned mistake. I think of that place every day (Its like thinking about a horror movie you saw and cannot get it out of your head) and feel such a sense of gratitude that I was not stuck there. And also the fact that you can make such a bad mistake stays with you. All mistakes do I think.

R190 described Vermont perfectly. And isn't that Target brand new?- When I was working in VT as my territory there were only Walmarts at the time, and I remember it being a big deal when the St Albans VT Walmart opened in 2014 or so- there aren't that many in the state at all.

R191, the Target in the University Mall in the former Bon Ton store. If they'd waited about another year, they could've had the larget Sears after it closed.

There are six WalMarts -- Barre, Bennington, Derby, South Burlington, St. Albans, and Williston.

Vermont is the most boring state in the union . Terrible weather and weird, standoffish people

we're not standoffish, we just don't like you.

Lol I think RescueChick is drunk right now.

R194, you’re probably ugly as sin

I am not drunk r195. high though.

Wherever you go, there you are.

Did anybody move there? Now I am thinking of moving there!

Whatever you are running from will be there to greet you in Vermont as well, OP. Sort out your demons first, then move.

r199 well, supposedly, there are a lot of problematic somalis immigrant in vt lately, so they will rob u blind 4 no reason

R201: Somalis are trouble.

r202 = Don Samuels

r199, I am. still here!

The Somalis have always had a larger than average troublesome contingent. The Bosnians did for a decade or so too.

It's absolutely beautiful out today, about 67 degrees and sunny. 67 is low of course but after the stretch of 99 degrees we had with high humidity it's a lovely break for a day.

I’m tempted, remote worker. I am not OP, not running away from anything.

OP can always join Ezra Miller's cult...I'm sure there's room on the farm for one more.

r205 You may enter. The demon-haunted OP, on the other hand, should stay out.

Housing is even worse than when I originally posted. Not only is there not any additional housing but all of the landlords collectively seemed to decide that raising rent between 20 and 50 percent was a viable option. It's becoming a bloodbath to find housing here.

My neighbor's landlord has decided to sell so she has to move soon and I get sick to my stomach every time someone pulls in the driveway in case it's a developer looking to buy that house and offers on mine too so they can build a tin can apartment complex like has happened several times on my road recently (and they charge 2k or more for an efficiency or 1 bedroom) .

Oh honey! Did you just watch Baby Boom and think all transplants in Vermont end up with hot Veterinarians? Do you have The Pox and has it seeped into your brain?

R209: no. I am sick of people. Vermont seems like a place where you can avoid them.

[quote] There's not a heating system around keeping up with that in Vermont.

Wait till global warming gives you o some for free. OP is smart to move now. La will be unlivable in 5 years.

Rescue chick - ever been to Greensboro or Hardwick? I go up there for a week or two every summer.

This thread is really interesting and informative. As someone who has been going to Vermont since I was a kid for summer vacation - I definitely idealize it.

R8, you should have asked if she wanted to move "Farther North," the word that describes physical distance. "Charlie said he could walk no farther and refused to discuss it further>"

r212, yes. Hardwick is a nice place if you are looking for a more 'country' Vermont experience than Burlington. It's hard not to idealize Vermont, which unfortunately can break your heart lately as it's not a place many people can live. I suspect if there's not some sort of turnaround I will have to move in the future.

And it's becoming a favorite place of violent drug dealers. I don't know if that is in part because of so many homeless people moving here because we had such a good program and benefits during covid but, the homeless are welcome to stay- the drug dealers with guns, not so much. I don't know if that could work like that obviously.

How do the homeless deal with the winters?

Are there parts of Burlington that are unsafe? Ignorantly, I assumed it was a very safe city.

We have fantastic shelters and also put them in hotels. If they've been sleeping outside in the winter it's because they want to be outside rather than a shelter.

It's a contentious subject in Burlington. I am somewhat in the middle thought that it's becoming less safe but because it's not concentrated in one area it's less apparent to the people who hate the police.

The gun violence is startling and the quality of life crimes are out of control. I have been told it's like that everywhere now and it's caused by poverty. I think just because it's like that everywhere doesn't mean we have to accept it. The poverty I don't have a solution for.

We need HOUSING, it would go a long way towards helping solve a lot of the problems. We need AFFORDABLE housing, housing that people who work in Burlington can afford to live in. I know 'raise wages' seems like an obvious thought but I know people who are straight up well off and can't find housing. We need the housing first and foremost.

Wow - the lack of housing issue is so surprising. I live in NYC and always have this delusional avoidant fantasy of how much easier it would be if I just quit my job and moved to Vermont - rescue chick and the other Vermont posters are giving me a serious reality check.

Rescue chick if you ever had to move out of Burlington would you stay in the northeast?

Several years back I had a friend who desperately wanted to move to Vermont, from South Carolina. He just dreamed of living in a very liberal place with lots of well educated people. I told him to not count his chickens before the eggs hatched because things are not always as you've heard. Well he eventually made a temporary move up there. He was back home in SC withing 2 weeks. I asked him why he didn't stay and he said he became disenchanted with the place very quickly. All the liberals he'd heard about were pretty much nonexistent and people were just as hateful to him when they saw he was gay as anywhere else.

R218- Very much my experience.. Perception and idealism have been two of my biggest challenges in life. I have a very rich fantasyworld that lives in my brain and Maine was in mine.

New England is a rough place in many respects.

Maine and Vermont have so little opportunity and so few PEOPLE.. that for gay men- I cannot put it into words. Even Boston isn't for sissies.

Don't know who bumped this thread and I had long forgotten that I posted an extremely long blog above about Maine.

r217, I have no idea where I would move, I have only recently had the realization that I would likely have to. I would need somewhere moderate to liberal with public transportation. I don't think I could live anywhere in the south because of their animal issues or anyplace with tarantulas. I don't think I would like a small town or a large city like NYC to live. That's as far as I have gotten, frankly the very idea scares the hell out of me.

[quote] I don't think I could live anywhere in the south because of their animal issues

Good God man, what are you a mouse?

No, get your own state, hot man, and big ol' baby. Whore!

Idgi r221?

Tents are cheap and there are plenty of woods

[R223] Thread bump! Calling Rescue Chick. I am in Burlington for a few days and didn’t know it was so grungy. Lots of mentally unhinged people and open drug use. Believe it or not I hadn’t seen people shooting up on a public street before! Mary!!!

What is a good place to eat and what’s a good dive bar but you don’t get beaten to a pulp in the parking lot?

Only white people live in Vermont. I should probably move there too.

r225, we just had several thousand people kicked out if motels. I personally don't go downtown. I would recommend going to a town next to Burlington for stuff. It's not currently a good time in Burlington, we are not putting our best face forward.

I absolutely would not recommend going to a bar downtown on a holiday weekend in the summer this year. What are you in the mood for to eat? Worst case scenario, if you get bored enough you can come help me build furniture and kill mosquitoes!

Hop in the (free) Riverside (#9) or Essex (#2) and go to Winooski! You can 2alk around, plenty of bars (I recommend McGees) and tons of restaurants

R20, Where are you now? There's little affordable housing, and even housing at all, in the entire US of A.

A Northern state with its heating needs is a foolish place for a pauper to contemplate. And the few times I've been in Vermont, including Burlington and Stowe, I thought it all looked run-down, tired, weather-beaten.

Don't even think about skiing if you have little money.

R40, the people are absolutely not cool and laidback. They aren’t as rude as people from Maine but they’re close.

[R228] heading to winsooki now! Thank you RC. Am heading to Saratoga Falls tomorrow.

Am driving past a big wig store and T Ruggs tavern.

If you are looking for laid back dining, Tiny Tai is good! A few hours ago you would have seen me at the bus stop across from TRuggs!

There are more cows than people in VT.

I went to visit a friend for a few days over 20 years ago. It was cold and you had to drive 45min to go to a strip mall or store. there is nothing to do.

Unless you're close to colleges or ski resorts....boring.

you're in your 30s, you should explore exciting cities, NOT VT

if I farted in VT everyone could sniff it.

why VT? why?

I’m not disputing Rescue-Chick’s characterization of Bennington as Vermont’s gayest town or another poster’s assertion that White River Junction is “pretty gay.” I’m not a Vermonter though I love Vermont; I’ve had a couple of long-ish stays here and I happen to be in Bennington at the moment.

But I think it’s important for people unfamiliar with Vermont to understand that a “pretty gay” or “very gay” place is nothing like a pretty/very gay place in California or England or even Taiwan.

When you say Bennington is really gay, it may mean gay folks are a larger-than-expected part of the population. BUT—and this is a huge BUT—there are few to no gay meeting places, gay bars, gay events (save its annual Pride).

As an unconnected newcomer it’s VERY hard to meet other gay people. On one of the gay apps in Bennington right now there is a total of three men, over 12 miles apart from each other.

Yes, Bennington is gay in the sense that it’s a liberal town with a woke (and stunning) college and a wee little bit of a theater scene. But good luck actually finding other gay men here. I don’t know if it’s any easier or better for lesbians here but I suspect not.

Years ago during a harmonic convergence there were actually three gay bars in Brattleboro, a ways east of here. Those days are long gone. Probably never to return.

Vermont, like Maine- requires a very very VERY entrepreneurial mindset.

These states are NOTHING like what you think- NOTHING.

Be careful what you wish for.

I am leaving NH out of this because no one wants to live there and the fact that god bless it- Boston (and its surrounding area) Massachusetts is within 1.5 hours from many NH towns so you can find a LIVEABLE WAGE JOB.. Maine???? Vermont?????

(God bless Massachusetts....)

I bought a house exactly 2 years ago this month- my first one- in Harpswell Maine. I wanted to die and sold that fucker fast.

Vermont and Maine are so similar, other than that shitbag governor.