Datalounge and Social Class

It didn't used to be but it has become one.

"The Bubble" is a very real social phenomenon caused by an increasingly insular upper middle class who are trying to establish themselves as an aristocracy. I wish I was joking.

These same guys weren't talking this way twenty years ago.

I think it’s just some of these people are old or if they’re young, not in touch with social norms of their generation.

Who were these guys 20 years ago? Where do yhey come from? It's all so weird!

Are you sure that quote in the OP wasn't somebody camping it up?

Personally, I don't think social class has existed for fifty or seventy years. It's character now, and intelligence.

They were Always there, only not posting anonymously online.

R4 I'm absolutely sure, go check it out - there were multiple replies in the same vein, and they were all taken quite seriously. Otherwise I fully agree with you - class is obsolete.

I always feel like - whenever there’s a discussion about class - a distinction should be made.

Class, in terms of wealth.

Class, in terms of behavior.

I’ve met wealthy people who behave like complete trash, and poor people who live life with high standards for themselves.

Delusions of grandeur

We have had many discussions about this on here OP

And FFS, R1, they are not upper middle class.

They are working class Flyoverstanis who use their incredibly outdated notions of social class as a way to try and set themselves apart from their friends, families and neighbors.

The assumption is that they were mocked for being gay as children and thinking "I may be a limp-wristed fairy, but at least I know the difference between a white wine glass and red wine glass!"

Most of their notions of what passes for "upper class" are based on black and white Hollywood movies like "The Philadelphia Story" and the 1980 satire book "The Preppy Handbook." They do not realize that the half a century later, the world has changed dramatically and no one under the age of 70 gives a crap about that sort of thing.

But mostly, it's a way of making themselves feel like they are better than the people around them. "I may be a hair dresser at a SuperSnips in a strip mall, but at least I...."

^^Or that The Preppy Handbook was intended to be a satire, not a how-to guide.

great post r7. Thank you

While I agree R7, you and I both know that when DLers talk about "class" and "trash" they are almost exclusively referring to an outdated and largely invented by Hollywood notion of the social mores of wealthy American WASPs during the post-war Pax Americana period in the middle of the last century.

I agree with the quote in the OP. We're not talking a simple tat here or there.

People who go overboard on any kind of body modification usually have psychological issues. Same with piercings. Also certain types of tats and locations.

Class is never about money. It is always about behavior.

People have a right to have preferences in who they let into the most intimate parts of their lives.

I enjoy being white trash!!

Tattoos are trashy and stupid is stupid, but that person sounds like a cunt!

It's a boomer/gen-x thing. My straight mom is obsessed with social class too.

R10, I read it as both.

Pfffft r16

My sense is it’s younger people. The decreasing social mobility - aka, born poor/stay poor - combined with social media has created a sense of the rich as an aristocracy to be viewed like the elite of Versailles. Watch how they live, how they eat, where they live, how they travel. With no sense of fluidity between “classes” that existed in the 20th century, Extreme and increasing wealth inequality is playing out before our eyes - on a global scale.

I'm late Gen X and I don't know ANYONE who thinks like this. The cringe is off the charts.

When she was in college, my sister was gifted a copy of The Preppy Handbook from some guy she was dating. He thought she was "preppy." She though it was hysterical because we grew up in a trailer on welfare.

I suspect he got the "preppy" idea because my has always leaned towards the sort of clothing associated with it: plaids, penny loafers, corduroy, etc.

My mother knew Lisa Birnbach who wrote "The Preppy Handbook" - they were both Nice Jewish Girls who grew up on the UES and were part of the same broader social circle

The book was 100% intended to be a satire, aimed at a niche audience that would get the joke. The success and subsequent adoption of the book as a "how to" guide by Reagan Era strivers took everyone by surprise

The concept of distinct social classes is a bit out of date, but the educated/uneducated and urban/rural social divisions are more relevant than ever. They’re pretty good predictors of a person’s political beliefs.

If you have tons of money nobody, including the top 10%, care what your social class is. Money is the great equalizer.

r24 quite a few UES co-op boards would beg to differ.

If you are obsessed with social class, then you are a member of a low social class.

millennials desperate to be anything but... got their beliefs of the world instilled by the likes of troop beverly hills, clueless, etc.

and the egotistical, manical creature known as Elmo... that gentrified Sesame Street and slowly eliminating the residents one by one

[quote]I’ve met wealthy people who behave like complete trash, and poor people who live life with high standards for themselves.

The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, but how she is treated.

R26 I really believe it goes much deeper than what's on the surface. Those who may feel marginalised by the broader society in which they live, or minorities, if one prefers, (regardless of their station in life, or wealth) often attempt to increase personal status by means of more outward expressions: i.e. an insistence upon conforming to the "right" or "proper" behaviours, the "correct" style, conspicuous consumption, etc.

This sort of class consciousness can be witnessed across the board, as regards many different minorities. I think we see more of it here on DL, because more of the eldergays are somewhat insecure and fell prey to this form of compensation. The younger gays do not, or did not grow up feeling so very marginalised, or less than. I rarely meet young gay Americans who have these hang ups.

I would also argue that the real people who qualify as official members of the lower or lowest class couldn't be bothered, as they're either oblivious to it all, or much too busy earning a living, and struggling to get on in life. This tends to be a middle-class, middle-America thing for a subset of eldergays here.

Funnily enough, I rarely see or meet American lesbians with this constant struggle to compensate.

Aesthetics?

I think the answer is pretty obvious, the average eldergay here is 70+ so they were kids of 1950s housewives and their pathetic expectations.

People who use "gift" as a verb should be kicked in the cunt bone.

I'll equate "class" with level of financial wealth here.

I heard some thing that I think is probably true. When socializing, people are more likely to cross race barriers than class barriers.

E.g., wealthy white couple with $7 million net worth. More likely to socialize with a wealthy black couple ($7 million) vs. socializing with a poor white couple living paycheck to paycheck.

R34 that goes without saying, because poor white people wouldn't be able to afford to haunt the same places as the rich.

It's a satire. It's obvious he had just listened to HMS Pinafore.

I thought it was because gay men aspire to upward mobility (the opposite of lesbians). What better way to be fabulous than to act as if you are rich AND pulling the ladder up behind you.

R9 I'm not R1, however I happen believe many may very well be upper middle class. To deny this is tantamount to suggesting people of considerable means cannot be so very insecure.

I've met several of these types. (not all eldergays, yet the hetties tend to be older as well) Excuse my headshrinking POV, but class or one's perceived class does not quite insulate effectively against feelings of insecurity, or inferiority.

Sorry folks, my Dad was a shrink, and I believe he was spot on about such notions.

OP - a lot of people put on, for fun, the snobbery and pretentious class consciousness. FOR SATIRE.

Also to make fun of a few humorless DL posters who are pretentious but serious. And often those ones are deluded. And stupid. They are NOT upperclass but perceive themselves to be, or delude themselves to be. It's pathetic because they use stereotype languages and references from way back when.

In short, its so easy to satirize, it's difficult to tell what is satire and what is pathetic delusion.

If she has to tell you she's a lady, she isn't.

I will fully admit that I’m obsessed with status. I am a Millennial (34), and I have always had a taste for the finer things in life.

However, my upbringing was probably closer to what Preppy Handbook satirized. I grew up upper middle class and surrounded by white people most of my life and lived in nice homes in leafy suburbs.

Despite the fact that my parents brought in $300k-$400k a year every year since I was a kid (inflation adjusted), I never felt rich. Probably because my parents are very frugal, and my mom in particular is the least materialistic person I know. My dad drove luxury cars and wore designer clothes, and liked to travel.

Mom doesn’t care about designer clothes, luxury cars, or high-end furniture, and refuses to buy any of these things, despite the fact that her robust, guaranteed lifetime retirement income enables her to. It’s so weird to me. She could be driving a Porsche Cayenne but insists on her older Lexus. I tell her all the time to enjoy her money, but she never wants to splurge on anything.

Me on the other hand am obsessed with nice things. Prada, Loro Piana, Jil Sander, Tod’s shoes, Ermenegildo Zegna, are just a few of my favorite clothing brands. I’m also a huge fan of high-end Italian furniture — Molteni & C, Knoll, Cappellini, and Roche Bobois. I like contemporary, high-quality clothing and furniture that lasts, even though these brands are insanely expensive.

When it comes to real estate, I try to buy the nicest place I can on my budget, versus my parents who are/were much more conservative and lived below their means. Is it a gay thing? All I know is this is who I am and can’t change.

Oh for crissakes, the brands, the income figures, the aspirational markers, just your entire discourse, reeks of petty-bourgeois parvenu. Good example for the thread, however, so thanks!

I don't think R41 is satire. If I'm wrong, then 10/10.

I read it as satire R43.

But given Datalounge you can never be too sure.

OP wouldn’t recognize satire if it but him in the ballsack.

I should add that although I grew up feeling grateful for the advantages I was lucky enough to have, I have never fancied myself upper anything. Psychiatrists working for the NHS are not paid exorbitant salaries. My mum was a cook, despite obtaining culinary training, and being a diplomate.

While your father is right, R38 and there are indeed plenty of upper middle class people with class anxiety out there in the real world, R38, the vast majority of the class-obsessed posters on Datalounge are pretty clearly working class and/or of working class origin.

It's sort of obvious from their descriptions of "Things That Are Hi-Klass" and the complete lack of familiarity with the lives of the upper middle class in 2022, let alone the upper class. (Movies and TV shows are not real life.)

Your spelling at R30 seems to indicate that you are not from the U.S., so perhaps that is why it is not so obvious?

^^Ah yes, from your post at R46, I see that you are from the UK..

Your class anxieties and American ones are very very very very different.

In the UK class is mostly immutable so for most people there’s little point aspiring to appear something other.

It's about the ambitious idea of ruling / conquering the very society that, once upon a time, rejected the Gays and take on all the negative traits of looking down on other people.

And just look at how far Gays have progressed within the once homophobic society that declared Gays outcasts once they dared to come out.

R48 The insecure do put on airs, regardless of the culture though. Many rich people I knew growing up were pretentious strivers. They were not the underclass. Americans do have their own tendencies though which manifest differently. In the UK, their is more real genuine pride amongst much of the working class, but still feel there exists a middle class element in both countries. I'm glad of this becoming more so a thing of the past, regardless.

Again, you are discussing behavior in the real world R51.

Behavior on Datalounge specifically is very different, primarily because this is an anonymous message board where no one know if you are posting from a penthouse or a homeless shelter and yet so many posters are obsessed with identifying behavior that is, in their interior world, "high class."

Hence the OP's use of the word "obsession" and the term "Datalounge Class Anxiety Syndrome"

I'm 50, and I've always felt that fellow gay people on DL my age were unusually conservative. Rarely have a met gay men with opinions like these in real life, but I guess it's all who you choose to associate with.

I have a tattoo. I find talking about a person's "breeding" offensive and archaic. I'm working class, college educated, professional, but I don't put on airs and I don't pine to join the upper class. I certainly don't delude myself that I belong with or even want to be with them. Classist snobs make my skin crawl.

Most DLers are not and never were upper middle class, and certainly not rich.

Most DLers are elderly or late middle-aged, and were probably very fem and visibly gay, limiting their income earning potential during the homophobic ‘70s, ‘80s, and ‘90s. They were likely forced into less high-earning professions such as non-profits or education.

I have known wealthy gay men and most aren’t obsessed with and constantly discussing social status.

It comes from the "It's better to reject than being rejected!" self-defense mechanism to shield one from emotional hurt. And DL encourage one to be a shady bitch, calling SJP an ugly horse and successful gays are the worst. But the very worst you can do is draining your pasta, you peasant.

OP it’s not an American thing, it’s an insecure gay man thing.

R52 I do completely get what you're saying here. I do feel that since the demographic here skews eldergay, that does indeed reflect a more 1950s American society with people hell bent on improving themselves, and conforming to the mores of their perceived betters.

BTW, I've lived here in the US for a bit over twenty-two years, so I have that empirical evidence to support my opinion that it's not entirely a working class thing. Add the minority status some eldergays may have been acutely aware of, and it's a reasonable conclusion that might have been a factor in such an overcompensation. Much of it probably can be chalked up to satire as well.

[quote] I have a tattoo. I find talking about a person's "breeding" offensive and archaic. I'm working class, college educated, professional, but I don't put on airs and I don't pine to join the upper class

Ditto to all of the above. Of all the threads of questionable taste on the DL, it's only ever the over-the-top WASP Brigade ones that make me question WTF I'm doing here and why don't I leave.

Gay men being classist on DL is definitely a thing. I can't believe how many gay men will completely throw someone in the garbage for any number of frivolous reasons. They must think they're on some judging panel like RPDR:

"Visible tattoos? GROSS. HE IS TRASH INSIDE AND OUT. "

Another class issue are the gays who have achieved some level of success or attainment in a certain way, and will act like absolute brats about anything outside their bubble. Example: guy I know moved to our town (upper midwest) from California last year w/his husband. Guy has lived here before, years ago. They opened a business in town & posted on FB last month the night of one of our local Christmas events (candlelight shopping, Santa comes down Main St, shops stay open late & have nice sales). The comments from his California "friends" were fucking rude. Not just because of the snark and meanness (someone actually commented on one of the posted pics "Gross" with a vomit emoji because of the snow, another told him he shouldn't have moved and that our town looked "sad") It's the fact that these assholes are making comments that us locals can see. We get it, we're not Palm Springs. Get over it!

There are indeed a number of people here who think acting like a 1950s evangelical housewife is the epitome of refinement.

Some things they post are so antiquated/outlandish that I literally never heard anyone alive saying before, like complaining about non-virgin brides wearing white.

Cheers R53 & R58. You both echo my sentiments and feelings. The salad dressing thread insisting those who deign to eat and admit liking Thousand Islands dressing are trash sums up the ridiculousness of it all.

I think you're supposed to take posts like that to tongue-in-cheek. No one takes them seriously, they are just funny.

R62 I do, yet at times there is this one-upmanship going on, and many DLers do believe that something so trivial is a class signifier. Believe me; I laugh.

Satire or not, the post OP quoted reeks if small dick energy. Hope the writer, or "satirist", is a bottom. Keep that hole tight, sis!

Pretty much every comment seems true. It's complicated.

For me, it's curiosity about seeing the other side. I'd love to have enough money to go to fancy nights at museums (that you can only get to if you donate a high amount). I'd love to have to dress up. There's also the Cinderella fantasy of fitting in and fooling everybody where you know you don't really belong. I get all that, I feel it.

There's insecurity too. Don't want to be the only one walking around a fancy area drinking a Quick Chek coffee when everybody else is drinking Starbucks. And wanting to feel like part of the in group or the fancy group.

That is actually a great example of what I am talking about R65, and apologies for calling you out.

I grew up fairly well off and I have a good job now.

It would never dawn on me that someone might care what kind of coffee cup I was holding, let alone judge me for it, and on the off chance someone asked me why I was drinking QuickCheck coffee and not Starbucks, if I said "I like it better" or "it's across the street from my office" that would be that--no one would think "oh, he must not be one of us."

But that is exactly what so many DLers seem to live in fear of--that somehow they will be "found out" and their working class roots exposed.

And they never seem to realize that the only people who care, the only people looking for these "tells" are the people who are hiding something too.

(Which, as I am writing this, sounds a lot like being in the closet)

And r12 they truly believe that world still exists. It's bizarre. The only WASPs who are still like that are very old now. The generations below them moved on.

Well put, R66.

I've been hanging around for a year here and the first thing that stood out in all threads is how obsessed with class posters are. I know some people write that in jest, but even in serious conversations you see many posters making this distinction, it's very telling.

R9 and R66 nailed it. You can watch this status anxiety play out in the royal family threads.

Gurls, R41 is truly the people's princess!

There is a lot of fanfiction on DL,

Don't people have a right to snobs? I mean, people have the right to be whores grossly obese and wear tight clothes. Live and let live. I don't have to hang out with them but who cares?

R66, you are right that it's mostly an internal worry and not real people judging you about brands, but not only. When I was a kid everyone would say it's not polite to talk about money (or politics), but now those are all anybody seems to talk about. You, R66, may not know a bunch of tacky people, but I do. You may be above all this, but it's everywhere. With a lot of people, everything is a comparison. Schoolgirls still want to wear Uggs, not knockoffs. People still judge you on your car. I've heard my kids' friends boasting about their iPhones (we buy cheaper phones). I believe you and I think you're living your life more correctly than some of us, but how do you keep yourself out of the daily judgement?

It's all confusing today because most celebs favored by those under early 30s are TRASH with CASH.

The Kardashians. The Biebers. The Hadids. The influencers. All treyshe.

We were smart enough to shut La Lohan down when she started showing us she was a white trash millionaire.

[quote] They truly are a sign of poor breeding. One handsome, muscular gentleman I was conflicted about dating a few years ago,

How can you not understand that that's obviously meant as satire, OP?

R76 because some DL contributors PUT IT ON this way, not be satiric but rather to convince others of an image of themselves. But they have hoary references and leaden imaginations, and this is what we get. Purple prose.

We are all (mostly) anonymous here. Some people like to pretend they are like characters from novels they've read or films they've seen, and probably some of them actually have lived similar lives and know firsthand the references and what they are talking about.

Being targeted directly is different though, so I can understand that bugging you if you were singled out.

The ones that can be toxic are the ones like certain unnamed posters who have a general snotty disdain for people outside of Manhattan. They aren't pretending to be characters, they are just snobs, for whatever reason.

But posting on the DL is hardly socially acceptable in any case, so there's that.

OP, I agree that wasn't satire, but it was obviously fake. The genuine class queens around here are far more concerned about their grammar than that guy was; they'd never have said "below my station" twice, nor would they have forgotten entire words, because they would have proofread and looked down on everyone else for not doing so.

About a decade ago we had a spate of threads about class, something that had been a regular topic on DL but which, for a while, was all DL talked about. Some of our trolls picked up certain phrases and attitudes from those threads and continue to use them, thinking it makes them fit in, not realizing they're woefully out of date.

Other trolls post pretending to be the snobbiest of snobs and then, with second accounts, post indignant rants against said snob, hoping it'll gin up attention and interest. If they're lucky, they'll get, oh, say, 78 replies to their thread.

Other posts in the tattoo thread from the same guy OP quoted:

[quote]Tribal tats on the bicep are super hot on the right guy.

[quote]My straight married FB has a few strategically placed tats are are ultra sexy. His little bitch of a wifey-poo doesn't care for them, but as long as she's getting that good dick, she doesn't say much about them.

[quote]All the mascdudebros who lift at my gym have tattoos. Something so hot about a tattoo placed on a guy's dense muscles that is so erotic.

The guy was faking being a snob just to get people riled up, then he faked loving tattoos just to get people riled up.

Perhaps consider not getting riled up at every stupid thing you read on DL?

See I don't buy posts like r79 either.

The little insults (e.g. "woefully out of date"), the denial that they could know what they're talking about and just learned it from some thread on the DL (clearly the lowest of low class ways to learn something!), The accusations of multiple accounts replying to themselves - it's all a bit much and comes across as someone who has a bone to pick. Protesting too much, as it were.

It's a way to counter/monster the class snobs with ad hominems, thus lowering them below your level, so you feel superior to them. Which means what they said or say is bugging you, which means they actually "won".

My dear friend Ypir isn't a snob at all. But, when she finds herself among especially tiresome Happy Few in Genève, Gstaad and Bodrum, she amuses herself by being the ne plus ultra of snobs. And she puts it over.

R79 R80 R81 - you are perhaps forgetting the omnipresent spate of posts with titles like "Things That Are High Class" "Things That Only Low Class People Do" "Let's Be Things Trashy People Have In Their Houses" "Foods That Only Low Class People Eat"

Those are rarely, if ever, satire

We could all learn from aristocrats, who are brought up naturally classy and elegant, with natural ability to relate to people from all stations of life, and be loved. Like these three.

R83 I think in those cases "high class" and "low class" aren't used the same way as they are elsewhere. It's just shorthand for "things people do that are tacky" or "things that are sophisticated".

Oh dear am I one of the only DLers that takes status and class seriously? This is NOT satire. I will summon the help to fetch me my smelling salts!

This begs the age old term: if you’re not pretty you better be rich.

No one likes the poors, it's a fact.

OP, are you suggesting Trash is a social class?

Oh, so delicious. I used to do a little work for a very wealthy woman. Her twenty-something daughter had graduated from Harvard. Mommy also went to an Ivy League, and was a professor. The long dead husband had been an economist. When she came home to mommy's house and we were introduced, she looked past me and said, "Oh yes, I've heard about you." That was it.

These were Episcopalians, very enamored of their status in life, with all the charm, class, and breeding of a couple of pythons.

[quote] because some DL contributors PUT IT ON this way, not be satiric but rather to convince others of an image of themselves. But they have hoary references and leaden imaginations, and this is what we get. Purple prose.

You poor, poor darling!

What R32 said.

R32 is definitely on to something.

The thing you need to remember is that most of DL is fiction. I don't mean that people aren't being genuine -- I actually disagree that the post OP quoted was satire -- but that many people who post here are bullshitters. Trolls. They want to project a certain image, or version, of their nasty selves, so they embellish, and, yes, "put on airs."

It's why every thread about personal wealth here is full of boasters claiming fancy lifestyles, expensive homes and impressive nest eggs funding early retirements. It's laughable to take 90% of them seriously. DL doesn't attract wealthy people disproportionately, any more than it attracts social conservatives or classist snobs. It attracts the same type of people as any other anonymous Internet forum: trolls and bullshitters. Half of the posters bitching about déclassé tattoos probably have multiple relatives and neighbors with tattoos. In other words, they're reacting to something that hits closer to home for them than they'd ever admit on an anonymous site like DL.

[quote] Delusions of grandeur

For the most part I agree. However, I think some of these DL whores are actually from families with wealth and social standing. The problem is that can't be conferred onto a childless homosexual -- and that includes gays with test tube babies (no woman of similar social station is donating her eggs). So among those not in sham marriages there is probably some distress and frustration that their class standing has no value.

[quote] DL whores are actually from families with wealth and social standing

🙄

Interesting that is your takeaway R93

I find the vast majority of DLers to be rainbow collar office workers living in small cities in Flyoverstan where there are not many other gays, and so they come here to connect with others like them.

DL threads on men's fashion, for example, almost all gravitate to JC Penney, Mens Warehouse and the like. Lots of talk about chain restaurants and packaged "once in a lifetime" tours to Europe.

Threads about childhood seem to mostly involve laborer fathers and stay at home moms going to campsites for summer vacation.

Though, to your point, when posters decide to play at Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, they do stand out, often because they are so clearly recreating a character they saw on TV

R96 It's funny how the grass is always greener for some of us. I would have loved having a family who enjoyed the outdoors, and camping vacations. I'm grateful I came to realise through friends a bit later in life that I absolutely live for these sort of trips, backpacking as well. None of my family could understand the appeal.

Though I enjoyed my adventures, as well as my freedom, I often think it must have been a really nice childhood to have a "stay at home mom". Perhaps it gets old after a while, but we were always fending for ourselves. I remember feeling jealous of my sister when she went out with my mum, having her all to herself most of the day.

Some people find tattoos trashy, OP - just accept it. Why do you care?

My dear friend, L'ex-impératrice en exile Farah Diba, generously let me accompany her to several Red Cross Balls in Monaco. (Not that dreadful Geneva one.) Empress Farah is so kind and humble, never a snob, however one year she introduced me to her dear friend Princess Diya Kumari of Jaipur, at the Ball. The Princess is a very beautiful and modern aristocrat, divorced now, a politician, and a fabulous old school snob. She told me nobody has fun at a grand party filled with nice, classy people.

You and I

R98, I don't find them trashy (well, kind of), but just so common now. Everyone seems to be overweight, have pink or purple hair, and tattoos. And a nasty beard. Everyone thinks he or she is so funky and different, but they all look the same.

Then there are the people who probably start out with a cute tattoo, but then get more and more and it seems like that is their entire personality.

They used to be cute when someone had a barbed wire tattoo anklet or a cat's footprint on their chest or butt, but it's just out of control now, and tedious.

Will one of you guys take me to a ball if I lose twenty pounds?

I'm sorry honey but gay men are invited by the rich ladies to their balls. We can't get you in anywhere.

[quote]Some people find tattoos trashy, OP - just accept it. Why do you care?

Some people find classism trashy - just accept it. Why do YOU care?

R101, what do you look like? Could you post a photo of yourself, so we know what standards to aspire to?

You're so abundantly clear on everyone else's flaws, but what does the gold standard look like? Do share with us. Please.

We'll wait.

MBA's are useless these days. I know people in roofing making much more than people I know who have MBA's or are even attorneys, for example.

R106 Indeed. Pipe-Fitters (no puns, please) , Plumbers, Locksmiths, and Electricians can ALL earn more than many average MBAs.

Rainbow-collar wotkers?! You forget, dear, thst yhe majority of DLers are certified psychiatrists able and willing to diagnose anyone at a glance.

From the thread about Faye Dunaway:

[quote]it's likely she's adopted (projection, imitation of her desired archetype that comes out wonky and exaggerated because of root condition, or tendency to define social norms within dysfunction or abnormal environments to which hollywood qualifies.) and developed (organic evolution towards) several other conditions along the way, such as the suggestions of some towards anorexia/bulimia

Dlers often post their childhood memories, and I'm always amazed at how many of them come from very modest backgrounds. It is true that many grew up blue collar in small towns or on the outskirts of mid-tier cities, as others have mentioned.

r108 np. it's not an official diagnosis but rather speculation based on the numerous stories of encounters with her. Have you ever been admitted to a clinic from emergency? The initial observation is often as crass as all that. We throw out a variety of assumptions to build a profile and see what might stick. There's too many mutables for biases; personal and otherwise. My background is in neuro where there's more concrete evidence and largely work with predictors utilizing data models. Which would be akin to the assumptions already made in this thread.. where we can outline the differences between generations based on the propensity of response from the greater whole. So, we project ourselves into the model as well as project the model onto others and clip away the excess to see how well a label fits.

But here, much of it is half-hearted, less serious. we operate as projection of ego. so, it's an exercise in revealing our own dysfunctions and biases based on the limited data we have. best guess or simple trolling.

I'd wager many eldergays would rather the assumptions made on social class over what they view as the archaic racist throwbacks of the privilege stack; those models which represent race as privilege + power, with a gross simplification based on physical attributes. . . to which is assumed to be more related to pop culture memes and entertainment than holding a legitimate basis in the real world. It's akin of judging us by the negative stereoypes in each.

In the oppression olymics, I'm a magical unicorn. so, I'd win most rounds, if I was ever inclined to play.

but that means nothing within this format and with my anonymity.

My theory: some DLers made it out of their smalls towns and moved to a Big City. While first in the Big City, DLer was treated like a hayseed. In time, the DLer assimilated, blended into the Big City, and was exposed to different types of clothing, apartments, etc.

Whenever that DLer comes across anything that reminds him of his hayseed roots, said DLer overreacts, insults, and attempts to distance himself from hayseed reminder.

r111 if you live in NYC you've known people like this.

Jesus, like nobody on the internet fronts? What is social media if not a fictional account about how great everyone's life is.

I remember one hilarious thread here where several posters were acting like Maggie Smith on Downton Abbey--a character that even in that fictional universe is out of date and Victorian.

Another thread where a guy obsessed with some Instagram ho threw a fit because I said the photos from "Dubai" were obviously shot in front of a fake backdrop.

There was a thread a couple of months back about having a big dick and someone joked about how many people were going to post about how they thought their dick was normal until someone else commented about it. It basically killed the thread.

A thread started recently about the same subject, and want do you know, the humble brag of having a big dick, not knowing about it till someone else commented on it, being completely unconcerned about how they were perceived.

Which is why they needed to inform us all about it.

I have had an incredibly unstable financial life: from being an immigrant with nothing, to being upper middle class, to being underemployed, to becoming disabled with AIDS.

I'm guessing many LGBTQ people have similar unstable histories because of prejudice and the decades long decimation of the middle class.

The internet has always been a place for people to indulge in their fantasies.

That's one badly wilted word salad, r110.

R110 reads like someone having a manic episode. Jesus. WTF does any of that even mean?

I’m always amused at the length Americans will go to in order to justify their personal opinions.

To many people from a certain type of background a person with refrigerator magnet style tattoos reads as uncultured and lower class. Just as Trump comes across as coarse and Andrew Cuomo’s voice shows a blue collar background.

That doesn’t mean people don’t have a right to get as many tattoos as they want, but it also is incorrect to announce that class distinctions do not exist or are meaningless, particularly as a sign of compatibility . There are exceptions to every rule and obviously some people with upper class background become black sheep or take a different path.

While the historic “upper class” may not have the prominence or relevance it once had it is far from extinct. Money alone is not an indicator of class although there usually was a fortune somewhere along the line. New money is rarely upper class, or at least not for a few generations. Most societies in every country have a gentry or titled class of aristocrats. You don’t see a lot of tattoos in the resorts and clubs frequented by the quiet old money set, let alone around the pool or on the beach with your family.

You also don't see any fat people, except the black sheep of the family. Everyone is thin and gorgeous!

Thin, yes.

Gorgeous is up for discussion.

[quote] Most societies in every country have a gentry or titled class of aristocrats. You don’t see a lot of tattoos in the resorts and clubs frequented by the quiet old money set, let alone around the pool or on the beach with your family.

R116 is furiously frigging her clit while she wrote that turd

"The Old Money Set."

Gotta love DL, it's still 1965!

R116 didn't get the point of this thread. It's not about whether there are differences between rucher/poorer people but about the ridiculous airs some DLers put on to pretend they're "upper class" (IMO a truly imaginary construct of prissy eldergays who like to have tea with their dolls and talk like the link 8n OP)

I am a GenXer who was raised in the South. Compared to the way I was raised, most people are pretty clueless, rude, and trashy these days. But I think it’s like that everywhere.

Also, practicing “good manners” back then basically required us to read people’s minds and be responsible for their feelings. Ain’t nobody got time for that!

[quote] the ridiculous airs some DLers put on to pretend they're "upper class" (IMO a truly imaginary construct of prissy eldergays who like to have tea with their dolls and talk like the link 8n OP)

"Mother always wore white gloves and a hat in public, so as not to appear common."

It is so weird OP. I mean - I know loads of academics/professionals with tattoos. This obsession with social class is odd and laughable (also wrong!)

Also - I know *no one* IRL who speaks this way.. It is so pathetic.

Nobody who speaks like that is anything like "upper class". Just some pathetic wannabe. Excellent for comedy relief, btw.

Things were just different in the Victorian era op.