**BREAKING** At least 19 people dead in fire at Bronx building

Horrible. It just came across my news feed. So fucking sad.

[Quote]The Bronx fire comes just days after a rowhouse in Philadelphia went up in flames, killing 12 people, eight of whom were children.

New York had to one up Philly.

Horrible. I can't remember a fire this bad in NYC.

Mayor DeBlasio is to blame, right?

What strikes me is that usually in a residential fire in NYC with this many deaths, the building is one of those 6 story brick inter-war buildings that have been neglected for several decades by the landlord. But from Google street view, this one look like something built in the 1970s or '80s when by which time a more stringent fire code was in effect.

It's the worst fire in NY in 32 years r3

9 kids. Jesus.

Any chance that the Trump Org. had a hand in building and/or managing the building?

The building looks like one of those Mitchell-Lama developments, circa 1970.

Is this in the Twin Parks project in the Bronx?

Twin Parks North West

A life long NY'er remembers HappyLand in 1990...I was a kid and I'll never forget that fucking fire. Tragic as they come...

I saw fire coming out of a window on the lower floor and out of an apartment on one of the upper floors

Sounds horrible to have to witness such a thing r12.

I'm also shocked there is a DLer who lives in the Bronx.

There was another fire in the 60's that killed 12 firemen in NYC

[quote]I'm also shocked there is a DLer who lives in the Bronx.

I wasn't there. I saw it in pictures on Twitter. The second I posted that I thought, "that probably sounds like I was on the scene"

I never go above 94th Street.

Typical New Yorker: 19 people tragically lost their lives in a fire, but the most important fact is that I didn't NOT go to the Bronx ( it's so beneath me).

I hope all our NYC DL fraus are safe! Can we get a roll call?

Space heater strikes again

Amateurs!

R14, that was the fire that started in a townhouse on 22d Street & Broadway - IIRC I think there were painting supplies in its basement. It also affected the huge drugstore on the corner at 23d Street or they used it to access the burning building. Unbeknownst to the fire department, the 22d Street building's basement went all the way under the drug store on 23d Street. It collapsed the floor and all those firemen fell in and were killed. It was a real tragedy.

Those old townhouses and smaller buildings were built in the mid 19th century. The collapsed building was next to the Flatiron Building and across from Madison Square Park. They built a tall apartment building in its place. Friends lived there before they bought one of the 6 story buildings next door and moved in there.

So horrible... The Philadelphia fire last week was because of an ignited Christmas tree. A child had set it on fire, I believe. Space heaters and Christmas trees, this time of year, cause a lot of fires. Very tragic.

Was the building to code? From what I just heard on CNN, not only did the space heater malfunction, but the door to the suite was left open which allowed the fire to spread.

Told ya I was hardcore.

Lots of times, the smoke alarms aren't working..

It was said a door was left open which caused it to spread fast.

It’s just sooooooo heavy and sad. I can only imagine what the survivors witnessed too, they will each have PTSD for the rest of their lives, same with first responders at this scene. How can we not respect first responders, these are the people who have to witness and then clean-up a death scene? How many people could witness this and not experience real trauma?

My hope is that mental health professionals step up and offer services pro bono, especially to the residents of the building. I would imagine almost 0% of them can afford mental health care for this tragedy, so if you have any close friends who are great therapists in the area/vicinity, you could share the need with them, and just ask them to forward it to anyone they think might seriously be interested in serving the survivors. Don’t ever pressure a friend to volunteer, that’s too pushy, and that’s why it’s kinder to give them an “out” that it’s really meant to be shared with others, assure them you totally understand if they aren’t interested or don’t have the time/inclination.

I need Ritchie Torres to put out the fire in my bussy 🔥

The fire never spread out of the apartment it started in. The open door allowed the smoke to escape which is what caused the deaths and injuries.

I'll be curious to learn if the building is poorly or not heated, or if the people who live in the apartment where the space heater caught fire are the kind of people who need to have their apartment temperature be at 90 degrees minimum to feel comfortable, hence the space heater.

Fuck....all those people lost because of a space heater and an open door. Who the fuck doesn't close a door during a fire....it's common sense...and in a big building like that, why wasn't the door self-closing?

Once cold weather arrives there is an uptick not just in NYC but across nation of fires started by various heating devices.

Other issue with this fire and others is same as it has been for ages as well; people run from burning apartments leaving doors open, this allows fire and smoke to spread.

By law NYC like everywhere else in USA requires self closing fire doors for multifamily housing. This has been law going back decades... Apartment doors are not only heavy and fireproof themselves, but are designed to self close. In event of fire this will contain things to apartment in question, plus stop spread of smoke (major cause of death in fires, not flames as many presume), and of course fire. In this instance tenants did what they have done for years, fled apartments leaving doors open, so smoke and flames spread. An open door is like opening a damper wide on a boiler, furnace, fireplace, etc... Air will rush into space feeding combustion.

Other issue with this fire is also same as others down through years. People either ignored smoke alarms, and or in some cases they were disconnected.

NYC law mandates smoke alarms in every apartment. Tenants for various reasons either take batteries out for their own personal use, or just disconnect the thing because it goes off when they cook, burn the toast, smoke, etc....

In this instance mayor, city council and usual suspects cannot lay blame at "greedy private landlords"... This building is owned and run by NYC itself, who consistently ranks in top five of "NYC worst landlord" lists.

@R5

Places can create all sorts of laws, regulations and zoning, but it often comes down to not being able to fix stupid.

According to local NYC news reports heat was working in this apartment building, but family wanted more I suppose. The father placed space heater near his daughter's bed, mattress and bed covers caught fire, rest as they say is history. Father suffered burns when he went to get his daughter off of burning bed...

R14 I recall my father telling me about that tragic fire in the 1960s on 23rd Street . The 12 firemen that perished in that fire that night was the worst in NYC until 9/11/2001.

Very sad day indeed....

Who leaves their door open to a hallway?

If a space heater was used, was it because the heat wasn't turned on? And were there no sprinklers in the building?

This is very sad.

Again according to local NYC news reports building (and thus this apartment) did have heat.

That being said apparently as many other New Yorkers living in apartment buildings this family wanted supplemental heat, hence the electric heater.

[quote] The father placed space heater near his daughter's bed, mattress and bed covers caught fire, rest as they say is history.

What a fucking idiot, if true.

Regardless, how on earth did the door to the apartment stay open after the occupants fled? Unless they propped it open for some reason, then there were major problems with the building that should have been addressed.

Landlords in NYC are only required to provide heat during daytime hours that gives indoor temps of 68 degrees F. Night/overnight things go down to 62 degrees F. For many people that is just too chilly...

[quote] NYC law mandates smoke alarms in every apartment. Tenants for various reasons either take batteries out for their own personal use

They must be hard wired. No batteries.

Who is stupid enough to put a portable heater near their baby's bed? First of all, if the heat was on the baby doesn't need all that extra heat. Just bundle them up to go to bed if there's still a chill.

All these space heaters - are they all defective? Are people just incapable of working something as simple as a space heater. Just keep items away from it.

And sterilize that stupid father. His breeding days need to be over.

Sure, R38, and space heaters can be used safely if needed. Only a complete moron puts a space heater near furniture, bedding, curtains etc...JFC. This is basic fire safety stuff, just like cleaning lint screens in dryers, having working smoke detectors, NOT placing heat sources near flammable objects.

I just shake my head. You can have all the regulations in the world and it takes one idiot to kill dozens.

[quote]Night/overnight things go down to 62 degrees F. For many people that is just too chilly...

D.C. the law is 65 degrees between 11pm and 6 am. 68 degrees from 6am until 11pm. I had to tell my luxury condo management to turn the damn heat ON when it was in the 50s outside and miserably raining. it was way below 68 inside - they did turn it on.

65 or 62 is not too cold for a baby to sleep. Plus people in bed have bed clothes - just put on another blanket, comforter, socks, whatever.

If people really felt cold maybe the building was not monitoring the temps in the units.

If true that door to apartment did not self close, and assuming it was designed to do so a few reasons come to mind.

One, door was propped open by person or persons fleeing apartment.

Two, door in past was propped open (a very common occurrence in NYC) by residents to allow ventilation. If this happens often enough it can cause door to sag and or issues with hinges. Once that happens door may not self close properly...

There will be a full and extensive investigation, so sooner or later truth will out. Oh and there certainly is going to be litigation, so there will be another chance for finding out what happened.

R39

No, don't think smoke detectors must be hardwired in NYC multifamily housing.

R39

You can get cheap assed space heaters (often made in China) from any dollar or other low budget store.

The space heater itself may not have been the problem, most of them have auto-shut offs now, R44, but putting it near a fucking bed is stupid and even the best ones can cause a fire.

This tragedy will be in Law & Order next year as a case of mass murders.

[quote] No, don't think smoke detectors must be hardwired in NYC multifamily housing.

Oh wow! That's terrible. That is such an easy thing to do and really is a safety necessity.

NYC not so progressive where it really counts then. Good to know.

@27, not that it matters, but Torres is a big ol’bottom.

Seeing the little kids being carried out in their pajamas was just sad. This is terrible.

Did you see the one firefighter carrying the infant? He was holding the poor kid like a football, under one arm without a proper grip.

This is Ritchie Torres district, so am sure he will be on the case.

It's also his first time up for reelection in November 2022. Wonder if anyone is going to primary the guy... Ruben Diaz, Jr. was term limited out as Bronx BP IIRC, so he might be looking for a new political job.

This reminds me of that fire that killed 8 children and an adult also in the Bronx.

They need more fire prevention PSAs which are aimed at the immigrant community.

I keep a fire extinguisher in the kitchen and the bedroom. I used the kitchen extinguisher once several years ago when a wire caught fire on my neighbor's house and was traveling toward my roof ala Mission Impossible.

Also this fire from 2017...

How horrible, R52.

[quote] The fire commissioner said they were told the boy “had a history of playing with burners and turning them on.”

What is wrong with some people? Honestly, innocent people die because someone can't keep their kid away from the stove. How unfair and tragic.

Yes, it was horrible, all way round....

More....

About those self closing NYC apartment doors...

Awful, R55. Was the mother ever charged?

Don't know R55, but she did bring legal proceedings seeking one billion USD in damages.

Wow. Outrageous, R58. Infuriating. Those poor people died because of her and SHE'S suing?

Cannot be stated enough in harsh terms... flames are is not cause of death in many instances; smoke inhalation is leading cause of death in fires.

This varies of course by several factors. Someone smoking in bed or a chair and doses off with lit cigarette or anything that causes furniture to go up in flames likely will be burned alive.

Modern cigarettes use fire resistant papers and chemicals in the tobacco that retard burning and they rarely stay lit if you are not actively drawing on them. It may help prevent fires but God knows what those chemicals are doing to smokers' lungs.

Jack Cassidy is a case in point. Poor soul died of extensive burns to his body after falling asleep (or passed out from booze), and lit cigarette ignited sofa he was sitting on.

Decedent's body was found near door to apartment, indicating at some JC woke up and realized what was going on, but likely in flames himself (hence burns), didn't make it far before smoke finished him off.

FDNY has been running same "Close The Door" message since I was a kid back in 1970's, yet it still hasn't sunk in totally.

This television commercial one used to scare the shit out of me as a kid.

[quote] Cannot be stated enough in harsh terms... flames are is not cause of death in many instances; smoke inhalation is leading cause of death in fires.

And flames burning cause the smoke, Einstein. We’re told to crawl on the floor to get oxygen. This is pre-school shit.

Goddamn. The picture of the firefighters in the OP's preview window says it all. It looks like a Pulitzer-winning shot. That's my Mary! contribution.

RIP innocents.

I'm afraid to read the thread to learn about causes.

If it isn't space heaters, firebug kids, it's over loaded power strips or cords. Whatever reason NYC sees many of these fires every year.

Yeah, people need to read space heater directions carefully. They are so high wattage that power strips and extension cords are specifically mentioned as big risks for flare ups that can create deadly fires.

The third picture in the OP's link shows the building exterior.

It has weird polychrome brickwork.

I knew it would only take a few minutes for the DL to start blaming the poor, dead people.

Actually, R70, it sounds like the guy responsible for the fire got out.

What's this with automatically closing apartment doors? I never heard of that and I have lived in a condo for almost my entire adult life. I have been to a million apartments of friends. That would be awful - people would be constantly locked out of their apartments.

So the world has to revolve around the dumbest people incapable of taking the simplest precaution. You know those automatic features have probably mostly been disabled. Probably a tenant-run industry.

If you wake up and suspect there is a fire, don't sit or stand up, there could be smoke and hot gases which will sear your respiratory tract if you do. Roll off the bed and crawl the fuck out of there, closing whatever doors you can between you and the fire.

At the first hint of a fire, terror attack or catastrophe, get the fuck out. Leave your shit, don't get caught up in a discussion about what to do, don't listen to announcements to stay put, don't give a shit about looking like a MARY! just get the fuck out as quickly as you can.

R72

Not "automatically" but self closing doors. As stated previously many urban areas have long mandated same for multifamily housing at least for front door.

Really isn't "door" per se, but special type of hinges that make things self closing. This is why propping open, hanging things on door and anything else that can cause hinges to go out of whack will cause issues. Hinges on my NYC apartment door are freaking huge powerful things....

Years ago when crime was really bad in NYC many apartment doors also had "slam locks" as well. People got rid of those because too many locked themselves out of their apartments. They'd run out say to empty trash, get mail, or whatever and self closing door did what it was designed to do, but then slam lock kicked in as well. If person didn't take key to front door with them, they were now locked out.

[quote]Years ago when crime was really bad in NYC many apartment doors also had "slam locks" as well. People got rid of those because too many locked themselves out of their apartments. They'd run out say to empty trash, get mail, or whatever and self closing door did what it was designed to do, but then slam lock kicked in as well. If person didn't take key to front door with them, they were now locked out.

R74, I learned that lesson years ago. Now I never step outside my door, even for simple things like getting the mail or putting out trash, without taking my keys with me.

How are people getting locked out? Why wouldn't you install a deadbolt with a dummy knob?

Slam door locks (probably is an official name for them), lock without keys. That is once door closes it is locked. If you don't have your keys, then you're out of luck. It's no different than locking yourself out of apartment, losing keys, etc....

In most NYC apartment buildings by terms of lease or other agreement building superintendent, LL or someone is supposed to have copy of keys to apartment. So if one gets locked out for any reason, that may be a solution. However many don't trust their super an inch and don't give keys. Leaving them with a trusted friend in building or neighbor is an option. But then again do you really want strangers having key to your apartment? That and or people get pissed off if you constantly are locking yourself out, losing keys and bothering them at all hours for that spare key.

Regardless of whether doors slam and lock, it's never a good idea, particularly for females, to leave their door open while on mail run, doing laundry, or whatever. I read of an instance of a woman in Boston (about three decades ago, when I lived in Chicago near the lake) who left her back door unlocked while fetching her laundry in the basement just a couple of flights below. She came back with fresh laundry to encounter her rapist who kept her at knife-point for hours.

I became compulsive about locking the door. I locked myself out a couple of times when I lived at the place for a couple of years. The landlord, an independent, was understanding and didn't charge me or even seem mildly put out

*Update*

Local NYC news media now says death count is 17, not 19 as previously reported.

^At, r78, I was assuming people with slam doors prop them open with a door stop or something. We didn't have those in much smaller apt. complexes.

Lots of factors in play here with self closing doors and slam locks.

First and foremost if you have windows open in your apartment, then open front door the cross ventilation often is powerful enough to "slam" door closed. This of course is why so many prop open front door to their apartment, to get that powerful cross ventilation, because otherwise in many buildings it is only way to move air naturally. It's against law/rules, but people do it anyway.

it was said that most of the victims were African immigrants so people wont give a shit as soon as that comes out. Sad but true. That could explain the extra heater,they may not have been used to the cold.

[quote] Yeah, people need to read space heater directions carefully.

But the directions have to be legible and comprehensible.

Instructions manuals have type in minuscule 4 point lettering which requires a magnifying glass to read.

And they were composed by someone utter unfamiliar in the English language and grammar.

And I suspect the occupants in this building were also unfamiliar with the niceties of the English language and grammar. Which is why Ikea use diagrams.

[quote] And they were composed by someone utter unfamiliar in the English language and grammar.

Oh dear. Dear. Dear.

Ok, R83, but does one really need instructions to know that you don't place a space heater near blankets, curtains, furniture? Isn't that just common sense?

Common sense is no longer common.

My best friend is extremely witty but also extremely dopey.

He has 20 electrical extension cords in his main room covered with 3 lumpy carpets.

I have a new digital kitchen scale sitting unused for two weeks because I need to find a microscope to read the Instructions which akiraka ni kō mei-shi ga sakkyoku shita.

Look, I'm incompetent at a lot of "house" stuff. I need my brother to hang a picture for me, I have a hard time putting together furniture, but even I know how to use extension cords and space heaters. Like come on.

How close was this space heater to the bed and sheets for a fire to start.

[quote]it was said that most of the victims were African immigrants so people wont give a shit as soon as that comes out

I think the word "Bronx" in the headline already took care of that.

[quote] even I know how to use extension cords and space heaters.

But some people got no time for that.

Actually, how many people would know not to put an extension cord or power strip on high wattage items? Is it common knowledge among the house proud?

The fire that killed over a dozen at an illegal Oakland artists' "coop" several years ago went up in flames during a "music event" because the warehouse wasn't appropriately wired and was powered by a network of extension cords. The "tenants" and victims were mostly middle to upper-middle class who hadn't the slightest idea of electrical safety. The landlord, a long-time shyster who rode the hippie wave in the area may have known; it's not clear.

It's not a lower class or immigrant problem.

[quote] It's not a lower class or immigrant problem

It's a stupidity problem. And they need REPARATIONS now!!

OMG!!!

Thank you. I have just checked my outlets, surge protectors, extension cords. I didn't know most of this. And I am old. How have I not burned up by now?

I have a surge protector plugged into this long ass very thick orange extension cord. That seems to be a no-no. In the surge protector I have my laptop, my router, and sometimes my external hard drive. It never gets hot, but I need to try to plug that surge protector into the wall - which won't be easy. I also have another long really thick orange extension cord in my bedroom and it goes under my bed so I have to see what's in that now.

I mean seriously thank you, R92.

The apartment where the fire started housed a Gambian couple and their 8 children. Fucking 8 children. How do they get permission to immigrate here? There's no war in Gambia so they can't qualify as refugees like Congolese could. WTF?

[quote] a Gambian couple and their 8 children

As Miss Prism (in 'The Importance of Being Earnest') says—

[quote] I regret to say, christening is one of the Rector’s most constant duties in this parish. I have often spoken to the poorer classes on the subject. But they don’t seem to know what thrift is.

[quote] It's a stupidity problem.

You use metal implements in a normal oven but NOT plastic.

You use plastic implements in a microwave but NOT metal.

[quote] It was said a door was left open which caused it to spread fast.

Most buildings have strict codes about doors - a fire resistant metal door can save lives. The fact that residents left it open unfortunately contributed to the fatalities.

[quote]Actually, how many people would know not to put an extension cord or power strip on high wattage items?

This guy has 8 kids. He doesn't even know enough to wrap his dick up. And he didn't warn a single person on the way out.

Many followers of Islam are rather similar to sects of Orthodox Jews, they view having huge families as a blessing from God. How or who is going to provide for that passel of kids doesn't seem to factor into things at all..

We, the taxpayers, will provide for that passel of kids.

This is likely not going to end well for landlords of building.

Property has racked up dozens of violations in just past few months. This includes apartment fire doors not closing as they should.

[quote] Property has racked up dozens of violations in just past few months.

Where in the article does it say that, R102?

Who the fuck designed the brick for that building in R102? Did they think it was cute? Why would the city allow such an ugly building to be constructed?

R102, which fire doors? The hallway and stairwell doors I could see. But individual apartment doors are probably being tampered with by tenants and I can't see citing a landlord for that. Unless there is a paper trail for requested repairs unfulfilled.

I cannot imagine how hard it is to run these buildings.

I can’t blame a parent rushing out of a burning apartment with a burned child in their arms for not shutting the door. Misuse of a space heater, yes. OTOH, if you are from Gambia, you probably don’t have a lot of experience with space heaters.

I had the opportunity to ask a couple of firefighters (they were not at this fire) if it was surprising that smoke from a fire that didn’t spread past one apartment could kill so many. They said it wasn’t just the apartment door being open, it was that the stairwell doors were open. So not only does that draw the smoke, but it caused the means of egress to be filled with smoke. My follow up question was, “what’s the motivation for leaving the stairwell doors open?” And they said maybe for airflow when it get stuffy in the winter. They seemed less certain of that, though.

Those that stayed in their apartments made out better. What I find particularly scary is that the Grenfell tenants were told to stay put and, in that case, it was the wrong choice.

Stairwells are known conductors of fires, and from what I've seen of the floor plans of this building, most of the units were two stories with their own stairwells to the bedroom level. Not a good design.

Duplexes in public housing. Damn! That's nice. No one's gonna be moving on up from that sweet deal.

Building stairwells are not the same as a staircase in a house or duplex. Obviously, a homes' staircase can create an opening for smoke and fire to spread but I believe the real danger of the huge common stairwells that go all the way up a building is the draught of air they create. Something like that. Stairwells have always had fire doors that I can remember.

R102, where in your article does it say that the building had code violations in the last few months?

What are Gambians doing in the Bronx?

Gambia's a tiny country surrounded by Senegal, it isn't in any notable conflict right now unlike the Congo and other hotspots. So how did they get here? They're obviously uneducated with 8 kids so they didn't get professional visas, they can't claim to be political refugees. Weird.

They were just giving safety tips on the news where it comes to using space heaters and one was to always have it at least 3 feet away from everything around it. Granted, it's a sensible thing to say but given how tiny so many apartments are in NYC, is that very realistic? It the apartment is small to begin with, then you fill it up with all the shit we usually fill our homes with (tables, chairs, shelves, TVs, etc.), I'm just saying 3 feet between anything may be a luxury for most people.

I don't know the answer, R112, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see these things outright banned in some buildings, the way hotplates sometimes were. Just because someone doesn't have space doesn't mean that they get to violate public safety, you know? It's a tough one.

R103 et al

Don't have time to sit some of you incels and not New Yorkers down to spoon feed information.

Local news media and other sources have reported history of violations which are easily found on HPD databases that are open to public (including internet) search.

Use some fucking initiative instead of running your mouths.

More...

Still more...

Even private individuals are getting word out...

R107

Scores if not all duplex apartments do not have doors (fire or otherwise) between floors. For that matter neither do many private homes either, so what exactly is your point?

If fire begins inside apartment you leave if required, but fire doors will shut behind containing fire and much of smoke.

Many duplex apartments have doors on both floors, so those upstairs can get out if there is a fire on lower floors. Didn't look at floorplans for this unit, but know such things exist elsewhere.

R114, you said that the building had several violations in the last few months and then posted an article that made no mention of recent violations. I asked about self closing doors way upthread somewhere, so by no means was I trying to imply that there weren't problems with the building.

By NYC building code for decades now, multifamily housing that have open stairways must have fire escapes. Where you don't see fire escapes it means building has internal closed staircases.

If you live or work in a high rise NYC (or elsewhere) building you know stairwells have doors that are supposed to be kept closed, and yes these are "fire doors" meaning they self close.

All stairwells will act like chimneys in event of fire. Carrying flames and smoke up through building. Ditto for laundry chutes and dumbwaiters which is why you don't see either much any longer in new construction. Many older properties with one or both long since have had them sealed.

[quote] What are Gambians doing in the Bronx?

They have two storey buildings in Gambia.

Tons Gambians live in Bronx and few other parts of NYC. Just like Italians, Irish, and other immigrant groups people come to this country and settle in areas with others of their own kind at first.

Some came illegally, others via legal migration that opened up Africa, Asia, Mexico and Latin America via Kennedy's immigration change laws back in 1960's.

More from recent headlines.

Chicago, Atlanta, Texas, Minnesota and few other areas now all have sizable Gambian communities.

Apartment building with hundreds of tenants and hundreds of apartments must have violations all the time. Things break down continually, hence maintenance people on premises. I just don't know if the number they are citing are unusual or not.

I mean one article says 2 violations for self-closing doors. Does that sound like a lot to you? In that entire building or complex? Are buildings not affected by the pandemic and disruption to staffing?

They should ban all personal heaters. Under threat of eviction. Put on a blanket and some socks. Peoples' lives are more important that maintaining the temperatures of Sub-Saharan Africa.

R123 What crimes did that Gambian commit?

For the past 30 years I have lived in a rent stabilized apartment in Chelsea, in a building built in 1929 or 1930, with 120 units, and not only does my door not only not automatically close behind me, it won't even stay shut if I don't pull out my key and lock it behind me.

R126

Basically petty shit, stuff that former mayor BdeB has leaned on NYPD to stop arresting people for, and just issue desk appearance summons. That and or DAs in Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn and now Manhattan refused to prosecute.

From linked article:

"Sources said his cases largely disorderly conduct and unlicensed vending, and the most severe sentence he served was 15 days in jail."

Cuomo and other democrat governors issued pardons all the time to illegal immigrants caught in crosshairs of deportation process in part or all due to state criminal convictions. If state removes criminal conviction in most cases ICE cannot use it as basis for removal.

This is not 100% true because ICE still has a long list of other things in their tool kit.

Moral turpitude is one of the biggest catch all bits for US immigration. So much so that four out of five DAs in NYC (Bragg of Manhattan is latest), will not prosecute most prostitution arrests, especially if they suspect trafficking is involved.

NYC chief medical examiners office has stated all 17 fire victims died from smoke inhalation.

A family with 8 children lived in the apartment where the fire started. As we know they fled and the door was left open. I wonder if the reason the door didn't automatically shut was because the door was often left open and the devices to get the door to shut automatically had been disabled in some way? I imagine the kids were running in and out of the apartment at all times so I can imagine the parents didn't want to hear the door constantly slamming to they kept it open. Also the residents in the building have been described as a "tight knit community". So I wonder if fire doors in the stairwell were propped open so that residents could go up a flight a stairs to visit friends and neighbors?

Yes landlords have a duty and responsibility to maintain their property, but residents have a role as well in acting responsibly. Let's see if more will be learned about what role residents may or may not have had in the deteroriation of the building. Not that they were acting maliciously but just doing things to make life there more bearable (like not having doors slam at all times) and sociable (being able to easily visit neighbors).

Again, the "devices" are special and powerful hinges that cause door to shut. Basically if you don't keep it open physically or otherwise, these doors will shut on their own.

If door is somehow messed with, goes out of alignment, or something causes hinges not to work as intended, yes that would be a problem. But we're not talking about normal use I shouldn't wonder.

This thread is probably dead, but I'll share...

R14/R20/R33/R34 or anyone else interested in or aware of the 23rd Street Fire:

My father was fireman in Ladder 7. He was one of only two surviving fireman from that house (firehouse), and only because he was a designated driver of the Hook & Ladder truck, and one of the Captains (that died) had ordered my father and one other fireman to move the Hook & Ladder around the block so they could start attacking the fire from another direction. (Two fireman, because one drives the front of the truck, and one drives the tiller with the ladder on it, which is the guy you see in the back of the truck.)

As they were getting ready to move the truck, the floor collapsed.

He called to speak to my mother, I answered the phone, and it was one of only two times in my life that I heard my father cry.

Those were dark days. I was young but I knew all of the fireman from Ladder 7 that died, and all of their families.

It's the immigrants. I've seen them use wood in stoves. They also go to dollar stores and buy extension cords from the Gambia.

This was OK 100 years ago but we need immigrants who know how to live in the real world. Not stick huts.

[quote] his was OK 100 years ago but we need immigrants who know how to live in the real world. Not stick huts.

Yes, you New Yorkers need to educate your immigrants. I mean, they are in need of your vast wisdom. How dare they aspire to exist in the greatest city on the world, the same city that you inhabit? The nerve!!! When did the city start allowing inferiors?

Eventually many of those affected by this fire will be fine, in fact may come out slightly ahead.

Good majority of these low to moderate income households were Section 8 voucher holders. Chuck Schumer and other politicians are already leaning on HUD to allow to vouchers to be transferable. Once that happens city hall and Albany will lean on various 80/20 "affordable" or similar housing to take affected families by giving them priority for any available units.

People will go from living in a busted old building to brand new construction with tons of amenities.

Why can't these Gambians be forced to live in suburbs instead of fire-traps?

R133, this place can really be amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. I cannot imagine how your father and mother feel. And you as well once you could better appreciate what happened. What a survivor story. Is your father still alive?

I learned about the fire because friends are one of the owners of a building next door (actually the "Kiss building") on 23rd Street and when visiting I would pass the giant apartment building that replaced the drugstore and there was a plaque on the wall outside the first floor coffee shop. I looked it up and then every time I passed that plaque, I would touch it. It seemed almost sacred to me.

I hope your father was able to come to peace with that awful day.

This is what happens when you CHOOSE to live in lower-class housing.

R138

My father is still alive at 91. Amazing considering all the smoke he inhaled and the weight of the equipment he wore or used and running up and down stairs for over 25 years He retired at age 46 and my mother died shortly after he retired and that was the second time I heard him cry. She was also 46. I remember that as a fireman’s wife, she was on “alert” whenever he was working.

My father is not an emotional man, so I’m not sure how he dealt with it or processed it. But those concepts of dealing and processing are relatively new; I think in those days - 55 years ago - one just moved on and didn’t spend any time thinking about those types of events.

It didn’t discourage him because over time he studied, took the exams, and was promoted to Lieutenant and then Captain.

He did mention it around the 50th anniversary amidst the publicity about the anniversary, but only because the other fireman that survived was mentioned in an article and they had been great friends for a long time.

Thanks for asking about it.

Years ago during the Soviet-Afghan War, a bunch of Afghan refugees were admitted to Switzerland. I knew a British couple who owned a magnificent 18th century restored mansion (maison de maitre) in the countryside near Lausanne. He then got transferred to Brussels for his job and they decided to rent the house out as they were originally only supposed to be in Brussels for a couple of years. The real estate agent - without their knowledge - rented it out to the Swiss Refugee Council which then housed a couple of dozen Afghan refugees in it. Instead of using the state-of-the-art kitchen in the house, they would build wood fires on the palazzo tile floor of the living room to cook their dinner. They totally destroyed the house, burning down most of it.

Space heater was left running for "several days".. No wonder it malfunctioned or there was an accident.

[quote]The NYC landlord responsible for the fire in Bronx that killed dozens is on Eric Adams's mayoral transition team in charge of housing.

Rick Gropper is the perp.

[quote] The NYC landlord responsible for the fire

That’s an extreme allegation.

Cardi B will pay for funerals of the Bronx fire victims