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Elagabalus: History''s most powerful and voracious bottom

* The young Roman emperor was openly and voraciously homosexual - and exclusively a predatoty botton

* Scoured the known world for men with giant penis who would be brought to Rome to service him

* Married sexy gladiators

* Turned the palace into a brothel and performed as a prostitute

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by Anonymousreply 473January 19, 2022 9:41 PM

Intriguing. Tell me more. I also understand Romulus Augustulus was a hot dish until he was deposed when he passed peak ripeness.

by Anonymousreply 1January 7, 2022 1:27 AM

Cassius Dio informs us:

"...he would go to taverns by night wearing a wig, and there ply the trade of a female prostitute. He frequented the notorious brothels, drove out the prostitutes and played the prostitute himself. he finally set a aside a room in the palace, and there committed his indecencies, always standing nude at the door of the room...while in a soft and melting voice he solicited the passers by."

by Anonymousreply 2January 7, 2022 1:32 AM

I think Madeline Kahn played him...

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by Anonymousreply 3January 7, 2022 1:34 AM

YAAS KWEEN.

Get it.

by Anonymousreply 4January 7, 2022 1:34 AM

“... he took lust in every orifice of his body, sending out agents in search of men with large penises to satisfy his passions… The size of a man’s organ often determined the post he was given."

by Anonymousreply 5January 7, 2022 1:37 AM

WTF! He became a whore/emperor at 14????

by Anonymousreply 6January 7, 2022 1:39 AM

He's mentioned in the Modern Major-General song of Gilbert & Sullivan (as Heliogabalus) but Gilbert didn't mention any of THAT!

"I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus,

In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous;"

by Anonymousreply 7January 7, 2022 1:41 AM

This was an agreed upon plank of his administration. It challenges the conservative conformity of the second tier gay leaders of today.

by Anonymousreply 8January 7, 2022 1:42 AM

He conquered Ibiza at 16.

by Anonymousreply 9January 7, 2022 1:44 AM

I would rather have my leaders doing this than playing golf all the time.

by Anonymousreply 10January 7, 2022 1:44 AM

Hot!

What a whore.

He would have given Aaron Carter some competition.

by Anonymousreply 11January 7, 2022 1:46 AM

[quote] "I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus, In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous;"

That sounds like a cock and a bull story.

by Anonymousreply 12January 7, 2022 1:46 AM

[quote] Scoured the known world for men with giant penis

Get in line, bitch.

by Anonymousreply 13January 7, 2022 1:48 AM

[quote]Elagabalus: History's most powerful and voracious bottom

And clearly, an early DLer

by Anonymousreply 14January 7, 2022 1:50 AM

I think she's TREMENDOUS!

by Anonymousreply 15January 7, 2022 1:51 AM

He's just a hero. There's no other way to describe him.

He's a hero and I hope he's some sort of spirit guide for me as I make my way through the world.

A hero.

by Anonymousreply 16January 7, 2022 2:02 AM

He was assassinated because he was an Arab slut who gobbled all the massive cocks in Rome. No sharing, of course.

by Anonymousreply 17January 7, 2022 2:22 AM

Elagabalus, if he were alive today...

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by Anonymousreply 18January 7, 2022 2:31 AM

[quote] "“... he took lust in every orifice of his body, sending out agents in search of men with large penises to satisfy his passions… The size of a man’s organ often determined the post he was given."

Here's the thing... I'm no size queen, but when I imagine being able to have whoever I fancy, at any given moment... it's incredibly erotic. They'd have to be willing of course. Rape isn't a turn-on.

I sometimes have a lucid dream in which I'm walking down a city sidewalk in broad daylight, surrounded by attractive men. Because I know I'm dreaming, I just start ripping their pants off, and blowing/rimming them right then & there, simply to satisfy my own pent-up lust.

I could stand to get laid a little more often, yes... but this has been my favorite dream for years now. It's odd. I'm not a slut, nor an exhibitionist...but I love being both during that dream.

by Anonymousreply 19January 7, 2022 2:38 AM

Trivia: he is known as both Elagabalus and Heliogabalus, variations on the same name. He chose the name Marcus Aurelius Antoninus when he became Emperor, so also Antoninus for short. Elagabalus was a variation on the name of a god he had worshiped as as a youth in Syria. How he became a Roman Emperor as an Arab I don't remember but I think he was a former Emperor's cousin or something. I'm sure the details are on WP or google.

by Anonymousreply 20January 7, 2022 2:43 AM

Given that having a large penis was considered vulgar, I question the entire story.

by Anonymousreply 21January 7, 2022 2:46 AM

He also married a Vestal Virgin.

by Anonymousreply 22January 7, 2022 2:46 AM

Don't be stealing my act, bitch!

by Anonymousreply 23January 7, 2022 2:51 AM

If he were alive today, he'd wear a turquoise belt, decorate his palace in the style of Downton Abbey, and hire a private photographer.

by Anonymousreply 24January 7, 2022 2:52 AM
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by Anonymousreply 25January 7, 2022 3:04 AM

Why wouldn't he want the biggest? If he was into small ones he could grab any guy who had all of his fingers. Then, one nub plus ten fingers. This guy wanted plowed not poked.

by Anonymousreply 26January 7, 2022 3:24 AM

He was assassinated at 18, which means he got all this whoring and multiple marriages done in a span of about four years. Putting all you bitches to shame.

by Anonymousreply 27January 7, 2022 3:39 AM

This man was truly living life!

I'm taking it upon myself to crown Elagabalus the Supreme DL Icon.

by Anonymousreply 28January 7, 2022 3:42 AM

Attaboy!

by Anonymousreply 29January 7, 2022 3:42 AM

In other news, Mariah Carey just gave birth to twins and named them Elagabalus and Heliogabalus.

by Anonymousreply 30January 7, 2022 3:47 AM

Well of course she did.

by Anonymousreply 31January 7, 2022 4:55 AM

Elagabalus was said to have been captivated by the blond and youthful Hierocles when the athlete fell in front of him during a chariot race. The Emperor made him his lover and husband, and consequently, Hierocles was alleged to have gained significant political influence. Hierocles banished the Emperor's other lover, Zoticus, and inflicted physical violence upon Elagabalus when the latter was unfaithful.

by Anonymousreply 32January 7, 2022 5:23 AM

That statue has herpes.

by Anonymousreply 33January 7, 2022 5:26 AM

"Given that having a large penis was considered vulgar, I question the entire story."

He did many, many things that were against convention including breaking major religious taboos and parading in drag. He was from the provinces and that led him to offending people and attacking convention on many levels. Everything about him was vulgar and obscene.

by Anonymousreply 34January 7, 2022 5:30 AM

Stunning and brave

by Anonymousreply 35January 7, 2022 5:34 AM

How come you all praise him when he does it yet you make fun of me? Hypocrites.

by Anonymousreply 36January 7, 2022 5:40 AM

See? If I had been born 2000 years ago I would have been Emperor.

by Anonymousreply 37January 7, 2022 5:41 AM

Christian propaganda to make pagan Rome look bad and immoral.

by Anonymousreply 38January 7, 2022 5:48 AM

[quote] Given that having a large penis was considered vulgar...

I think that was in Greece, R21, not Rome.

by Anonymousreply 39January 7, 2022 6:00 AM

So now I unw75 load twitter guy

by Anonymousreply 40January 7, 2022 6:08 AM

R27: Even if he does put me to shame. I'll still tip my hat to him.

by Anonymousreply 41January 7, 2022 6:18 AM

[quote]whore/emperor

That was an option?! FML!

by Anonymousreply 42January 7, 2022 6:22 AM

Elababalus Does Ostia.

by Anonymousreply 43January 7, 2022 6:24 AM

Big dicks may have been in and out of fashion but they have never, ever been out of favor.

by Anonymousreply 44January 7, 2022 6:24 AM

[Quote] he got all this whoring and multiple marriages done in a span of about four years.

He whored at the peak of his testosterone production.

by Anonymousreply 45January 7, 2022 6:52 AM

They should really make a movie about Elagabalus. It would be epic!

by Anonymousreply 46January 7, 2022 6:55 AM

He was living the datalounge dream.

by Anonymousreply 47January 7, 2022 7:41 AM

One anecdote is that he had his dinner guests showered in rose petals - until they suffocated - so you better not accept his invitations for dinner, no matter how tempting. There is also an opera about him by Francesco Cavalli (Heliogabalus/Eliogabalo).

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by Anonymousreply 48January 7, 2022 9:16 AM

47 answers in an none of you mention that he wanted to transition and asked his physicians to cut him a vayjay? He was also murderous and violent. A proto Silvia Riviera.

by Anonymousreply 49January 7, 2022 9:38 AM

So he was sort of the prototype of the average DLer?

by Anonymousreply 50January 7, 2022 9:45 AM

He did allegedly offer half the empire to any surgeon who could supply him a functioning vagina.

by Anonymousreply 51January 7, 2022 11:05 AM

OPs bust photo is smelling cookies.

by Anonymousreply 52January 7, 2022 11:26 AM

He didn't "marry" that Vestal Virgin, he violently raped her and then pronounced that they were married.

He also subjected infants to rituals involving his deified phallus that often killed them.

I like a man who knows what he wants and takes it, but really....

by Anonymousreply 53January 7, 2022 11:56 AM

He's hawt!

by Anonymousreply 54January 7, 2022 11:57 AM

He had a hot ass but he could not live forever .

by Anonymousreply 55January 7, 2022 11:58 AM

ElaFABULOUS I think!

by Anonymousreply 56January 7, 2022 12:07 PM

Who should be cast in the biopic?

by Anonymousreply 57January 7, 2022 12:10 PM

They should make a miniseries about the entire Severan dynasty. Nothing but intrigue, extreme violence, murder, fratricide, nasty men, strong women, sexual excess, and great architecture . Caracalla, who murdered a couple of thousand five Alexandrian youths, was cut down when taking a shit. They made up the story that Elegabal, who was very handsome, was his son.This is when the Roman empire stated to go downhill.

by Anonymousreply 58January 7, 2022 12:13 PM

"Who should be cast in the biopic?"

That twink from Dune.

by Anonymousreply 59January 7, 2022 12:17 PM

[quote] always standing nude at the door of the room...while in a soft and melting voice he solicited the passers by.

This could have happened last night at Steamworks.

by Anonymousreply 60January 7, 2022 12:25 PM

Gross emperor. That’s no way to act as such a powerful leader.

by Anonymousreply 61January 7, 2022 12:37 PM

@r24, "If he were alive today, he'd wear a turquoise belt, decorate his palace in the style of Downton Abbey, and hire a private photographer. "

I got that reference, bitch...

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by Anonymousreply 62January 7, 2022 12:39 PM

@r34, "He was from the provinces and that led him to offending people and attacking convention on many levels. Everything about him was vulgar and obscene. "

In other words a trailer-trash MAGAt faggot

Got it

by Anonymousreply 63January 7, 2022 12:43 PM

Thanks DL. I genuinely laughed out loud at a lot of these.

by Anonymousreply 64January 7, 2022 12:45 PM

He wasn't a MAGAT, a follower of Trump. He was a Trump himself.

by Anonymousreply 65January 7, 2022 12:46 PM

naturally, some queen in the 17th century wrote an opera about him

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by Anonymousreply 66January 7, 2022 12:49 PM

[quote]This is when the Roman empire stated to go downhill.

Fuck you, R58

by Anonymousreply 67January 7, 2022 12:51 PM

This bitch was always trying to steal my swagger

by Anonymousreply 68January 7, 2022 12:55 PM

[quote]He conquered Ibiza at 16.

That explains so much.

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by Anonymousreply 69January 7, 2022 1:00 PM

Hollywood would make him straight with occasional trysts with men. No thanks! Hollywood would ruin him.

by Anonymousreply 70January 7, 2022 1:04 PM

[quote]He also married a Vestal Vergin.

Ohhhhhh, the Devil IS a liar! 70 replies, and no mention of your old DL icon?

I'm praying for you, R22, I pray for all the very heterosexual NONgays in my music ministry.

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by Anonymousreply 71January 7, 2022 1:12 PM

Does he have “an” OnlyFans?

by Anonymousreply 72January 7, 2022 1:18 PM

That sculpture bears a striking resemblance to - wait for it - Elijah Wood. Heh.

by Anonymousreply 73January 7, 2022 2:38 PM

R38, most of this is from Cassius Dio who was not a Christian.

by Anonymousreply 74January 7, 2022 5:25 PM

Actually a lot of it is from the “Historia Augusta,” which was also not written by Christians, and which has a good deal of fiction embroidered into its history.

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by Anonymousreply 75January 7, 2022 5:29 PM

I'd like to see how the Victorian and Edwardian historians covered his reign. Or did they just skip over it?

by Anonymousreply 76January 7, 2022 5:55 PM

[quote] Big dicks may have been in and out of fashion but they have never, ever been out of favor.

A large penis is always welcome.

by Anonymousreply 77January 7, 2022 6:07 PM

Emperor Gobbler!

by Anonymousreply 78January 7, 2022 6:09 PM

The Victorians and Edwardians indulged in it and were obsessed with Elagabalus (real name Varius Avitus Bassianus), R76. Of course, while pointing out how detestable his behavior was. Gibbon also had a few choice words.

by Anonymousreply 79January 7, 2022 6:40 PM

I always wondered whether the Black Stone of Emesa became the Black Stone of the Kaaba. This would be hilarious, given its history.

by Anonymousreply 80January 7, 2022 6:42 PM

He was a lousy lay.

by Anonymousreply 81January 7, 2022 6:47 PM

[quote]The emperor reportedly wore makeup and wigs, preferred to be called a lady and not a lord, and supposedly offered vast sums to any physician who could provide him with a vagina.[79][80] For this reason, the emperor is seen by some writers as an early transgender figure and one of the first on record as seeking sex reassignment surgery.[79][81][82]

Every fucking time.

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by Anonymousreply 82January 7, 2022 6:56 PM

If I become president I will emulate him!

by Anonymousreply 83January 7, 2022 6:59 PM

^ Except Elagabalus was the ultimate power bottom, Lady G is just a big pussy

by Anonymousreply 84January 7, 2022 7:47 PM

It's ok r49, Wikipedia makes sure to mention that he was transjenduh and no one is allowed to dispute that!

At least they say this is all "supposedly", although weird word for a wannabe-encyclopedia that's desperate to be taken seriously.

"Dio says Elagabalus delighted in being called Hierocles's mistress, wife, and queen.[79] The emperor reportedly wore makeup and wigs, preferred to be called a lady and not a lord, and supposedly offered vast sums to any physician who could provide him with a vagina.[79][80] For this reason, the emperor is seen by some writers as an early transgender figure and one of the first on record as seeking sex reassignment surgery.[79][81][82]"

by Anonymousreply 85January 7, 2022 8:02 PM

That isn’t a statue of him in OP’s link and R83, that’s actually him. Our little whore was covered in a nacreous layer of permacum.

by Anonymousreply 86January 7, 2022 8:18 PM

This story is making me feel so...unfulfilled.

by Anonymousreply 87January 7, 2022 8:22 PM

The relevant passage is in the medieval abridgment of Dio Cassius' history (Dio was a contemporary of Elagabalus; parts of his history survive only in later abridged versions):

[quote]Ἐς τοσαύτην δὲ συνηλάθη ἀσέλγειαν ὡς καὶ τοὺς ἰατροὺς ἀξιοῦν αἰδῶ γυναικείαν δι᾿ ἀνατομῆς αὐτῷ μηχανήσασθαι, μεγάλους ὑπὲρ τούτου μισθοὺς αὐτοῖς προϊσχόμενος.

[quote]"He was driven to such licentiousness that he even asked doctors to contrive him a female private part by cutting, promising them large fees for the purpose."

by Anonymousreply 88January 7, 2022 9:11 PM

Basically, he just wanted to dance.

by Anonymousreply 89January 7, 2022 9:12 PM

I don't ask....I grab them by the mussy

by Anonymousreply 90January 7, 2022 9:14 PM

R80 I hadn't thought about that, but it would be magnificent if it was.

by Anonymousreply 91January 7, 2022 9:28 PM

He’s always been a role model to me.

by Anonymousreply 92January 7, 2022 9:29 PM

He was living his best life folx! Why all the haters?😒

by Anonymousreply 93January 7, 2022 9:38 PM

[quote] he finally set a aside a room in the palace, and there committed his indecencies, always standing nude at the door of the room...while in a soft and melting voice he solicited the passers by."

Melania did this too the first few months in the White House until they explained to her that she didn't have to earn her keep.

by Anonymousreply 94January 7, 2022 9:41 PM

What Elagabalus may have looked like...

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by Anonymousreply 95January 7, 2022 9:44 PM

[quote]This is when the Roman empire stated to go downhill.

Yes, this was when the Empire became even more decadent and self-destructive. It really was all downhill from the 200s on, until the end of the Western Roman Empire in the 400s.

by Anonymousreply 96January 7, 2022 9:49 PM

Fuck you, R96!

by Anonymousreply 97January 7, 2022 9:59 PM

So, this is a thing you can do?

by Anonymousreply 98January 7, 2022 10:02 PM

Actually, the Roman empire really started to go downhill, when the rich stopped paying taxes. Really! When the rich refused to pay taxes, and hired thugs to repel the tax collectors, the tax collectors literally destroyed the middle class in an attempt to keep the state funded. The rich wouldn't pay, the middle class vanished, and the underclass had no assets to take, and the Roman Empire became unsustainable, in a way that had nothing to do with anyone's sex life.

Any of that sound familiar?

by Anonymousreply 99January 7, 2022 10:06 PM

There are a lot of really sadistic stories about him killing people for religious rituals, basically human sacrifices, which was something highly taboo in Rome. This history could have been an attack on eastern religions or it could have been the truth.

by Anonymousreply 100January 7, 2022 10:08 PM

His God was a version of Baal, R100, who was the hated rival of the Jewish God in the OT and who demanded the sacrifice of the firstborn.

Some identify Baal with Satan. Just saying.

by Anonymousreply 101January 7, 2022 10:21 PM

"So, this is a thing you can do?

—Eric Trump"

Not unless I tell you

by Anonymousreply 102January 7, 2022 10:26 PM

The religion would have been a much bigger issue to his contemporaries than his bottoming, and the bottoming would have been considered unseemly for an emperor even if he was of buggerable age when he took the throne.

But Elagabalus was just too young to understand the personal and political value of hypocrisy. If he'd married a smart gal from a good Roman family and produced legitimate children between plowings from gladiators, and worshipped the Roman gods in public and sacrificed little slaves to Baal in private, nobody would have had a problem with his behavior. But a boy of 14-18 doesn't understand that, kids that age think grownups are all fakes and hypocrites, and need to be shown how to live honestly.

by Anonymousreply 103January 7, 2022 10:32 PM

This is such an interesting historical discussion, minus the Trump and other American political posts. God, you people never quit.

by Anonymousreply 104January 7, 2022 10:35 PM

Yes the titillation over his sex life gets somewhat ruined by his obscenely evil religious rituals and child murders.

by Anonymousreply 105January 7, 2022 10:35 PM

Overall a great thread, IMO

by Anonymousreply 106January 7, 2022 10:43 PM

He had one of his big guys fuck him for the first time in an arena with the populace watching.

The crowd was instructed to cheer when his lover shot his load into his ass.

That's entertainment!

by Anonymousreply 107January 7, 2022 10:49 PM

That boy is a bottom!

by Anonymousreply 108January 7, 2022 10:50 PM

He was the most powerful power bottom that ever bottomed.

by Anonymousreply 109January 7, 2022 10:53 PM

He was the very model of a modern Major bottom boy

by Anonymousreply 110January 7, 2022 10:56 PM

[quote]The crowd was instructed to cheer when his lover shot his load into his ass.

ChiChi LaRue was directing way back then? Wow, she really is old.

by Anonymousreply 111January 7, 2022 10:57 PM

He had a guy imported from the middle east who purportedly had the largest penis ever seen, but jealous rivals in the palace drugged this guy when he got there, so he couldn't perform. He was sent back in disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 112January 7, 2022 11:00 PM

He sent me out to collect 10,000 pounds of spider webs on a whim! The indignitas!

by Anonymousreply 113January 7, 2022 11:02 PM

Fun fact: Olivia de Havilland was in the audience of the arena when guys were fucking him in the ass!

by Anonymousreply 114January 7, 2022 11:02 PM

He made me sit downwind of his garum farts! I was brought up for better things than this.

by Anonymousreply 115January 7, 2022 11:04 PM

If you had money power and you were free male citizen anything and everything was possible and also happened. But the other side were the rest of the people. Their lives were very different story.

by Anonymousreply 116January 7, 2022 11:10 PM

[quote] If he were alive today, he'd wear a turquoise belt, decorate his palace in the style of Downton Abbey, and hire a private photographer.

And travel the known world in search of large dicks to take up his hole.

by Anonymousreply 117January 7, 2022 11:11 PM

[quote] he got all this whoring and multiple marriages done in a span of about four years. He whored at the peak of his testosterone production.

That way everyone was guaranteed maximum seed via multiple ejaculations.

by Anonymousreply 118January 7, 2022 11:16 PM

[quote] He had one of his big guys fuck him for the first time in an arena with the populace watching. The crowd was instructed to cheer when his lover shot his load into his ass. That's entertainment!

This sounds like a recent episode of life on the road with the Cockgobbler.

by Anonymousreply 119January 7, 2022 11:26 PM

It's amusing the incredibly how incredibly full of insane replies this post is, stop projecting your laughable political views into the past, the Roman "Republic" isn't comparable to any modern polity, although some countries love to pretend to be its successor. And yes, it certainly is a good idea to take at face-value these Roman historians, who were and wrote for an intensely hostile public not only to Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, his actual nomenclature, but to more or less his whole family and what they represented. What they truly despise they lay bare in a circumspect form, for example the passing remark that "philosophers" dressed as women loudly spoke about their husbands and "married life" to please Antoninus; that's because Nero too was blasted for being too Greek-ish in customs and tastes, and the patrician class was generally ambivalent towards Greek philosophy, see how the Athenian embassy to Rome (headed by philosophers) was turned back at the instigations of Cato the Elder and the Patricians because they were stupefied by their teachings. And then of course the core of the issue which is religion, the Roman patricians loved their religion because in addition to what it was to every cultist to them it was in a certain sense a family history, patrician lines claimed to descend from some hero/demi-god, something that features prominently in their culture from the Aeneid to Seneca's Apocolocyntosis, while in the Aeneid it's treated reverently, the Greek-ish and provincial Seneca mocks Claudius' claims of descent from Hercules by making him his attorney before a divine court that dismisses his claim to godhood and sends him straight to the underworld to suffer excruciating pains. Antoninus took the office of Prince only because he was supposed to be a restorer of the legitimacy of the Principate and restorer of the status quo ante Macrinus' usurpation, the only things that allowed him to cling to power was the support of the army, that hoped to see a revived Caracalla in him (and were to be soon disappointed) and Julia Maesa, his cunning grandmother, what we would nowadays call a veteran lobbyist. Yet as I pointed out he began to lose allies pretty soon, and kept power mostly in the way that Nero and others did, by entertaining the Roman masses, it's no error that every "degenerate" emperor was a favourite of the masses and intensely hated by the Senate, the Senate didn't care for degeneracy insofar it was along the lines of Tiberius, you could diddle or be diddled by kids (as Tiberius liked) as much as you wanted if you were an efficient and ruthless "bureaucrat". A very different thing is to be an incompetent administrator who burns money to please the masses, as well as himself, and of course outrages Roman mores and attempts to co-opt cults into his own familial cult (aka attempting to become a living god, as Caligula supposedly attempted). Perhaps the most resented issue would have been human sacrifice, the Romans couldn't stop it in Carthage, where until the Christian age it continued under the guise of mock gladiatorial fights that the Romans considered were in honour of Saturn, actually the Phoenicians sacrificed humans to more deities than just Baal. And yet that's not enough, the custom was to offer the best of the best in the human buffet and that was the nobleman's children, and noble families regularly gladly sacrificed their little children. Antoninus made it compulsory and had children sacrificed through the whole Republic. Maesa was among the first to see the sinking ship that Antoninus was, and fastly jumped ship to that of his other grandson, Severus Alexander, forcing Antoninus to grudgingly name him his successor, and yet in his madness Antoninus attempted to kill Severus Alexander, who had in the meanwhile become the sweetheart of the army, therefore sealing his fate, as the army stormed his palace and killed him.

by Anonymousreply 120January 7, 2022 11:33 PM

I'm guessing Google Translate rendered R120 out of either Italian or Spanish, to judge from the mistranslation "Prince" where it should be "princeps." Or maybe Latin?

by Anonymousreply 121January 7, 2022 11:42 PM

And if you like 17th Century opera, think Monteverdi, yes Francesco Cavalli is a good recommendation, although he's more known because of his work for the King of France, he did most of the work for Ercole Amante, which turned out to be a flop and passed to Lully for re-arrangements, Cavalli nevertheless is a master of the Italian style. This work is online in youtube, with Antoninus role performed by Franco Fagioli, a rather popular opera singer due to his abilities as falsetto. It bears little semblance to the monster of the Roman historians, the plot is about how Antoninus attempts to woo Flavia Gemmira who is actually in love with Alexander Severus (who despite being a teen at the time he took the throne, here his actor sports a rather lush beard), a fictitious plot. The supposed female senate headed by Maesa that Antoninus convened makes an appearance but here it's turned into a ploy to seduce Gemmira as Elgabalus claims he too can form part of it, since he's perfectly female, perfectly male and also Zeus.

R171 Prince is derived from Princeps, which means first among equals/citizens.

by Anonymousreply 122January 7, 2022 11:44 PM

Geez, r120, would a couple of paragraphs have killed you?

by Anonymousreply 123January 7, 2022 11:45 PM

Kyle Onstott wrote A Child of the Sun based on his life. It’s sexy gaY PORN.

by Anonymousreply 124January 7, 2022 11:47 PM

R123 Has the absence of paragraphs killed you? Get used to density if you don't want to be a literary light-weight who can't read more than one page per hour or even day.

by Anonymousreply 125January 7, 2022 11:52 PM

^ Learn how to write so people can read it, what a fucking mess

by Anonymousreply 126January 8, 2022 12:02 AM

He demanded that his chariot driver call him Miss Ross.

by Anonymousreply 127January 8, 2022 12:07 AM

R126 Or perhaps you could just improve your reading ability and be less of a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 128January 8, 2022 12:09 AM

You know a thread is popular when people start flooding it with bitchy snipes and spammy nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 129January 8, 2022 12:12 AM

As a teenage gayling read a wonderful novel Child Of The Sun about Elagabalus and his lovers. Along with Mary Renault's books it helped me accept being gay. Would make a great film.

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by Anonymousreply 130January 8, 2022 12:20 AM

^ Would cast Chalamet as Elagabalus

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by Anonymousreply 131January 8, 2022 12:26 AM

The more fabulous Pan paperback cover.

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by Anonymousreply 132January 8, 2022 12:26 AM

@r128, nobody is going to read your crap, glad you wasted your time. Learn to write...

"A paragraph (from Ancient Greek παράγραφος (parágraphos) 'to write beside') is a self-contained unit of discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea. A paragraph consists of one or more sentences Though not required by the syntax of any language, **paragraphs are usually an expected part of formal writing, used to organize longer prose**"

by Anonymousreply 133January 8, 2022 12:29 AM

@r120, Tl:Dr

by Anonymousreply 134January 8, 2022 12:30 AM

Elagabalus was probably trans. He became emperor at 14. He was basically a puppet under control of his power hungry grandmother. He was murdered with his boyfriend when he was only 18. His cousin assumed the throne and made sure his" fairy" predecessors reputation was thoroughly blackened by propaganda. Homophobic Edward Gibbon gleefully completed the hatchet job on this kid. "History" is a pack of tricks we play on the dead.

by Anonymousreply 135January 8, 2022 12:33 AM

Did he ever forecast the weather on a NYC morning show?

by Anonymousreply 136January 8, 2022 12:35 AM

"History is written by the victors."

by Anonymousreply 137January 8, 2022 12:36 AM

His life would make a great film. So much of Roman history is overlooked by Hollywood. How many Caesar, Cleopatra,Nero, Caligula movies have they made? Elagabalus and Hadrian and Antinous great stories that deserve the big screen.

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by Anonymousreply 138January 8, 2022 12:41 AM

[quote]R74: most of this is from Cassius Dio who was not a Christian.

Correct, but the history of Elegabalus is from the Historia, Books 79/80, which were abridged, summarized, and embellished by John Xiphilinus, an 11th century Byzantine monk and nephew of Patriarch John VIII of Constantinople, a well-known preacher. The work was requested by a minor Byzantine emperor, who was fed more or less what the Byzantine Church wanted him to know of the Roman emperors. From Wiki:

[quote]The epitome of Dio was prepared by order of Michael Parapinaces (1071–1078), but is unfortunately incomplete. It comprises books 36–80, the period included being from the times of Pompey and Caesar down to Alexander Severus. In book 70 the reign of Antoninus Pius and the early years of Marcus Aurelius appear to have been missing in his copy, while in books 78 and 79 a mutilated original must have been used. Xiphilinus divided the work into sections, each containing the life of an emperor. He omitted the names of the consuls and sometimes altered or emended the original. The epitome is valuable as preserving the chief incidents of the period for which the authority of Dio is wanting.

From Tertullian.org on the subject of manuscripts:

[quote]3. The Epitome of John Xiphilinus - "For Books LXI-LXXX our chief authority is Xiphilinus, a monk of Constantinople, who made an abridgment of Books XXXVI-LXXX at the request of the emperor Michael VII. Ducas. (1071-78). Even in his time Books LXX and LXXI (Boissevain's division), containing the reign of Antoninus Pius and the first part of that of Marcus Aurelius, had already perished. He divided his epitome into sections each containing the life of one emperor, and thus is of no authority as regards Dio's divisions ; furthermore his task was very carelessly performed." (Cary)

In short, it was exactly as R38 characterized it: "Christian propaganda to make pagan Rome look bad and immoral."

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by Anonymousreply 139January 8, 2022 1:00 AM

There is a tendency now to assume that negative histories are always fictional and designed by the victor to invalidate the defeated. For example it was relatively recently in vogue to claim that Roman accounts of child sacrifice in Carthage were politically motivated lies. But archeology has proven that assumption to be false.

by Anonymousreply 140January 8, 2022 1:47 AM

R139, do you think the similar stories about the emperors in Suetonius' *Lives* and in other ancient authors were "Christian propaganda to make pagan Rome look bad and immoral"? We're dealing here with a long-lived ancient discourse of invective, which could perfectly well have been in Cassius Dio's original—not because he was Christian (which he wasn't) but because of his political leanings. Let's not reduce it to a simplistic "pagan versus Christian" opposition.

by Anonymousreply 141January 8, 2022 2:16 AM

Shawn Mendes IS Elagabalus

by Anonymousreply 142January 8, 2022 2:18 AM

A thousand years from now they will say we were "exaggerating" about Trump?

by Anonymousreply 143January 8, 2022 2:28 AM

This thread is turning me Topsy-Turvy!

by Anonymousreply 144January 8, 2022 2:38 AM

Right round, baby, right round....

by Anonymousreply 145January 8, 2022 2:49 AM

Elagabalus - Italy's first case of AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 146January 8, 2022 2:59 AM

[quote]R131: Would cast Chalamet as Elagabalus

Yes!! Elagabalus=sun god / Elio=sun god. Both have struggle staches. It was obvioisly meant to be!

by Anonymousreply 147January 8, 2022 3:02 AM

^^^obviously^^^

(obviously)

by Anonymousreply 148January 8, 2022 3:03 AM

R141 comparing the Christian texts of the 'Epitome of Dio' by Xiphilinus with Suetonius's 'Lives' is like comparing apples and oranges. Nor can one pretend that, in the absence of Dio, 11th century Xiphilinus will do.

by Anonymousreply 149January 8, 2022 3:11 AM

R18- He does not belong on this thread. He's sounds TOO heterosexual.

by Anonymousreply 150January 8, 2022 3:17 AM

Suddenly this makes more sense...

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by Anonymousreply 151January 8, 2022 3:22 AM

Isn't Elagabalus the real name of the Wicked Witch of the West?

by Anonymousreply 152January 8, 2022 3:26 AM

How about Tom Holland as Elagabalus?

by Anonymousreply 153January 8, 2022 4:18 AM

Armie would be an ideal Hierocles to Timmee's Elagabalus.

by Anonymousreply 154January 8, 2022 4:21 AM

That was a violent relationship, so that casting might work.

by Anonymousreply 155January 8, 2022 4:45 AM

Elagabalus was an Arab and died at 18.

by Anonymousreply 156January 8, 2022 4:51 AM

Horny Arab boys can be hot, even for straight guys.

by Anonymousreply 157January 8, 2022 5:20 AM

Where were the concerned imperial Roman mothers? He was just a boy.

by Anonymousreply 158January 8, 2022 5:51 AM

They were plotting, r158.

by Anonymousreply 159January 8, 2022 6:20 AM

The mother and the grandmother were the ones who puppeteered him into power. The grandmother had him killed and replaced. He probably would have rather stayed in Syria sucking provincial rocks and being a flamboyant priestess..

by Anonymousreply 160January 8, 2022 7:04 AM

As if DL bottoms wouldn't do the same given half a chance. You're all whores, darlings.

by Anonymousreply 161January 8, 2022 7:24 AM

Are those warts on his face ?

by Anonymousreply 162January 8, 2022 7:39 AM

^ Zits, he was just a teenager. Today he'd be working at McDonald's

by Anonymousreply 163January 8, 2022 7:54 AM

R149, when you call the 11th-century epitome's passage an addition by the epitomizer and the comparison with Suetonius as "apples and oranges," you need to show that Dio or another pagan author couldn't have said the same sort of thing—but they could and did. Example: the Historia Augusta, our *main source* for this kind of invective against Elagabalus. It isn't part of a Christian agenda there; it serves a programmatic contrast between Elagabalus' imposition of Syrian sun-cult and Alexander Severus' honoring traditional Roman religion, performing sacrifices as Pontifex Maximus, reestablishing worship to deified previous emperors, specially cultivating Capitoline Jupiter, etc. (he's even represented as abandoning a plan to include Christ among other deities in temples—itself not in line with Christian belief—when he's told it would lead to people becoming Christian). The author's tendentious program is to extol the traditionalist *pagan* ruler over the corrupt Syrian sun-priest-ruler.

by Anonymousreply 164January 8, 2022 11:04 AM

Yes but what about the monster cocks?

by Anonymousreply 165January 8, 2022 11:07 AM

"He made a public bath in the imperial palace and at the same time threw open the bath of Plautinus to the populace, that by this means he might get a supply of men with unusually large organs. He also took care to have the whole city and the wharves searched for "onobeli*," as those were called who seemed particularly lusty. *i.e. like an ass in this respect."

THE LIFE OF ANTONINUS HELIOGABALUS by Aelius Lampridius

by Anonymousreply 166January 8, 2022 11:15 AM

Monster cocks figured prominently, R165, in attacks by pagans against other pagans, I can assure you!

by Anonymousreply 167January 8, 2022 11:18 AM

That bust looks a lot like Troye Sivan..............

by Anonymousreply 168January 8, 2022 11:26 AM

Reincarnated as a corrupt uber bottom pop star in the early 21 Century, he returned to disgust and offend again.

by Anonymousreply 169January 8, 2022 11:34 AM

Elagabalus is what happens when bottoms have power.

by Anonymousreply 170January 8, 2022 12:12 PM

I would like to read the rest of R120's thesis.

by Anonymousreply 171January 8, 2022 2:31 PM

[Quote] "onobeli*," as those were called who seemed particularly lusty.

Onobeli is the archaic word for Datalounger.

by Anonymousreply 172January 8, 2022 2:52 PM

[quote]The mother and the grandmother were the ones who puppeteered him into power. The grandmother had him killed and replaced. He probably would have rather stayed in Syria sucking provincial rocks and being a flamboyant priestess..

I Like that grandmother's style.

by Anonymousreply 173January 8, 2022 2:55 PM

Just a word of caution: this term "onobeli" isn't actually attested in any text; it's a speculative reconstruction. See attached.

Elagabalus' ravenous appetite for huge cocks, however, is indisputable.

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by Anonymousreply 174January 8, 2022 2:58 PM

They should really make this into a movie. The horny teen, his mother, and grandmother are all Oscar bait roles.

by Anonymousreply 175January 8, 2022 3:34 PM

I agree r175, or as someone mentioned upthread a miniseries about the whole crazy little dynasty. But I have to admit, a 14-year-old boy running around having sex with every guy in town? I dunno, would they have to just lie and pretend he was 18 when he came to the throne?

by Anonymousreply 176January 8, 2022 3:37 PM

Let’s hope some Hollywood writers take up the charge. DL must be infested with them.

by Anonymousreply 177January 8, 2022 3:43 PM

Dustin Lance Black could write it for Tom Daley’s first legitimate film.

by Anonymousreply 178January 8, 2022 3:45 PM

A voracious bottom into big Roman and Arab dick?

It's like looking in a mirror!

by Anonymousreply 179January 8, 2022 3:58 PM

R178 , Tom would be perfect. But he is aging out of this role quickly

by Anonymousreply 180January 8, 2022 6:01 PM

A gay icon I actually can get behind.

by Anonymousreply 181January 8, 2022 6:03 PM

He literally put the "power" in "power bottom".

by Anonymousreply 182January 8, 2022 6:10 PM

He had Sanpaku Eyes!

by Anonymousreply 183January 8, 2022 6:43 PM

I believe he was the first DLer to call for Verificatia of Size Meat

by Anonymousreply 184January 8, 2022 6:56 PM

If a bio film or tv series is ever made and the actor playing Elagabalus is white, there will be a total shitstorm of outrage.

by Anonymousreply 185January 8, 2022 7:23 PM

They can easily find an actor from anywhere in the entire Mediterranean region who looks like him.

by Anonymousreply 186January 8, 2022 7:26 PM

But if he's not Arab there would be hell to pay on Twitter.

by Anonymousreply 187January 8, 2022 7:28 PM

There are Arabic actors who play gay, you know.

by Anonymousreply 188January 8, 2022 7:36 PM

He looks like the Sicilian actor Franco Merli. I'm sure Pier Paolo Pasolini would have made a biopic about Elagabalus and Franco would have been cast.

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by Anonymousreply 189January 8, 2022 7:39 PM

Is it a giant wart on his chin ? Did he have aids ?

by Anonymousreply 190January 8, 2022 7:41 PM

I would imagine a Syrian would be better than just Arab. Arab is an ethnicity and contrary to popular belief, most of the populations in the Arab world are not completely genetically different prior to Arabization. Rami Malek and Mena Massoud are who they should be casting in Ancient Egyptian movies.

by Anonymousreply 191January 8, 2022 7:43 PM

R185 is the white victimhood queen. 80% of actors in movies and TV are white

by Anonymousreply 192January 8, 2022 7:43 PM

A young Arab power bottom role?

Call Scarlett Johanssen.

by Anonymousreply 193January 8, 2022 7:44 PM

r192 perhaps you haven't been paying attention to the entire fucking culture over the last several years. A non-white character being played by a white actor is hugely controversial in this day and age.

by Anonymousreply 194January 8, 2022 7:45 PM

I'm tired of a bunch of speculation from people who are just making it up as they go.

Eldergays, tell us what Elagabalus was like.

by Anonymousreply 195January 8, 2022 7:46 PM

R194, he wasn't non-white.

by Anonymousreply 196January 8, 2022 7:47 PM

Syrians can be "white" though. The Middle East is diverse in skin tones. You also have Iranians and Egyptians with blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin. In general the Mediterranean and Central Asia is a melting pot. Most of the world does not fit into these racial categories. A historical accurate movie would feature this diversity.

by Anonymousreply 197January 8, 2022 7:48 PM

He was Arab, which means in America there would be a controversy if a white (European) actor played him. JFC you just don't get it.

by Anonymousreply 198January 8, 2022 7:48 PM

Several years ago there was a Biblical movie called Exodus: Gods and Kings. It was a big controversy because Christian Bale played Moses, Sigourney Weaver was Tuya, Joel Edgerton was Ramses, John Turturro was Set and Ben Mendelsohn was Viceroy Hegep. Several other white actors played Egyptians/Middle Easterners. The movie flopped because of the shitstorm over the casting.

by Anonymousreply 199January 8, 2022 7:51 PM

History does not record his complexion, but I fancy it was a warm Mediterranean olive tone. His mother's mother's family was from a priestly dynasty in the Syrian city of Emesa, apparently of Arabic origin (long before the Arabs spread out over this part of the world in the 600s; but there were local Arabic communities in the Levant). His father's family might have been of local origin—or who knows; there was a lot of moving around in the Hellenistic and Roman periods, particularly among the upper class. All we really know about him is that he was horny.

by Anonymousreply 200January 8, 2022 7:53 PM

r197 are you aware of the recent controversy over Gal Gadot playing Cleopatra? And Cleopatra actually WAS white European!

by Anonymousreply 201January 8, 2022 7:53 PM

Technically, a Southern European potentially could from Portugal, Greece and Sicily could because many have Arab and North African DNA and similar phenotype. In the Ancient World there was nothing separating Southern Europe from Asia and Africa. As long as he's not this tall, fair-skinned blondie from Norway, I don't see the issue.

Americans think they know everything and see the world based on the Jim Crow slavery system of "white" vs "nonwhite" when it's not that simple. Other countries do not give a shit because they care about real issues and race as a concept makes absolutely no sense.

I doubt Middle Easterners give a shit that everyone in Biblical movies are played by white actors. Most Arabs didn't care about Aladdin because it's fiction. The thing is while it's nice to aim for historical accuracy, these movies are at the mercy of producers and shareholders.

The 1001 Nights by Pier Paolo Pasolini was very diverse and accurately represented the Arabic cultures with brown, black and white actors because Bagdad was melting pot and trading center. Ancient Rome was a major center of trade too and naturally had many ethnicities who lived there.

by Anonymousreply 202January 8, 2022 7:55 PM

R201, and yet the movie is still getting made. Huh. Weird.

White victimhood queens are so silly

by Anonymousreply 203January 8, 2022 7:57 PM

The bottom line is that if an actor playing this role isn't North African/Middle Eastern there will be a big controversy. Even Southern European actors would be controversial.

by Anonymousreply 204January 8, 2022 7:58 PM

Because r203 Cleopatra actually was white.

by Anonymousreply 205January 8, 2022 7:58 PM

It won't be a controversy because 1) he's not well-known as opposed to Jesus and Cleopatra, 2) he was flamboyant gay, a pagan and sexually promiscuous which is taboo in Islamic cultures, so modern Arabs would not want to claim someone like him, and 3) the subject matter would not make this anywhere closet to a mainstream Hollywood film or Netflix series. It would a niche arthouse type of production targeted to gays.

by Anonymousreply 206January 8, 2022 8:01 PM

Exodus: Gods and Kings failed because it was a terrible movie. The “controversy” over casting that I have no memory of was the least of its problems.

by Anonymousreply 207January 8, 2022 8:02 PM

Did I miss something? Is this ancient whore's life, which virtually no one knows about, being made into a film via DataLounge Productions?

by Anonymousreply 208January 8, 2022 8:02 PM

[quote]The Sydney Morning Herald and Christian Today reported that the casting of white actors in the lead roles was being criticized.[22][23] Four white actors were cast to play the Hebrew and Egyptian lead characters: Christian Bale as Moses, Joel Edgerton as Ramses II, Sigourney Weaver as Queen Tuya, and Aaron Paul as Joshua. The Sydney Morning Herald also reported the online community's observations that the film gives a European profile to the Great Sphinx of Giza.[22] Christian Today reported that an online petition was underway. It also compared Exodus to the 1956 film The Ten Commandments with its all-white cast and said, "The racial climate, number of black actors, and opportunities provided to them were very different in 1956, however."[23] Some Twitter users called for a boycott of the film.[24][25]

[quote]More so, Forbes' Scott Mendelson said that the film did not need to be "whitewashed" and stated that "Even if we accept the argument that Moses had to be played by a world-renowned movie star and that in all likelihood that meant a white actor, I do not accept the idea that the rest of the main cast needed to be filled out with Caucasian actors of varying recognizability."[26]

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by Anonymousreply 209January 8, 2022 8:04 PM

[quote]It won't be a controversy because 1) he's not well-known as opposed to Jesus and Cleopatra, 2) he was flamboyant gay, a pagan and sexually promiscuous which is taboo in Islamic cultures, so modern Arabs would not want to claim someone like him

1)Twitter will research him immediately. When they find out he was Arab, they'll start screaming. 2)A lot of this stuff comes from woke white people.

by Anonymousreply 210January 8, 2022 8:06 PM

Yes, if Lindsey Graham doesn’t shut the production down for saying it was inspired by his life story.

by Anonymousreply 211January 8, 2022 8:06 PM

Yes, R208. Liza Minnelli is going to play his politically adroit grandmother Julia Maesa. Who do we get to play his bruiser cousin Caracalla? It would have to be somebody who looked good in the bathhouse scenes that occupy the first 20 minutes of the film?

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by Anonymousreply 212January 8, 2022 8:06 PM

[quote]Americans think they know everything and see the world based on the Jim Crow slavery system of "white" vs "nonwhite" when it's not that simple. Other countries do not give a shit because they care about real issues and race as a concept makes absolutely no sense.

We do go overboard, but are you telling me nobody in Germany cares about all the Turks, nobody in France cares about the Algerians, nobody in Britain has even the slightest touch of racism, it's all one big happy family of nations and ethnic groups, all focused on those real issues?

by Anonymousreply 213January 8, 2022 8:11 PM

R194, the majority don't care if a white actor plays an allegedly non-white ancient character, or a historical figure who wouldn't necessarily have been non-white by today's standards. Syrians are have pretty white skin, they're not "black" or "brown".

by Anonymousreply 214January 8, 2022 8:11 PM

That's nothing to do with skin colour, r213. It's more about a large number of people from a very different culture with different values suddenly coming to settle in your town. And, they're not even as bothered as you think. No, people in Germany are not really bothered by the Turks and people in France are not particularly bothered by the Algerians. And Algerians and Turks probably couldn't give a fuck who played an Algerian or Turkish character in a Hollywood movie.

by Anonymousreply 215January 8, 2022 8:15 PM

[quote] A lot of this stuff comes from woke white people.

True. I'm not white myself (I'm black) but I understand enough about certain things to choose my battles. Energy has to be directed towards real issues. I think smart people realize Hollywood will never present a true story. It's mindless entertainment not a documentary. I try my best to just get movies from nonwhite creators at this point.

R213 Racism exists everywhere. But North America's racism is deeply tied to chattel slavery and genocide of Indigenous people and laws that enforced segregation and disenfranchisement. Europe's racism is based heavily on a mix of xenophobia, post-colonialism, religious conflict and culture wars. In Europe, there is far more push to have people assimilate. Black people in France and The UK will deal with prejudice but it's nothing like in The US where centuries of dehumanization and inability to fully assimilate occurred. The other similar ethnic groups to Black Americans I can think of in Europe are the Romani.

by Anonymousreply 216January 8, 2022 8:16 PM

Every time a SJW squeals on Twitter the white fragility crowd squeals “I’m being oppressed in response.” And Boris, or Cody or Ping earn another token towards their Divisive merit badge.

by Anonymousreply 217January 8, 2022 8:18 PM

Can we please get the conversation back to me?

by Anonymousreply 218January 8, 2022 8:25 PM

Anyone seen this movie?

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by Anonymousreply 219January 8, 2022 8:25 PM

[quote]Can we please get the conversation back to me?

Absolutely, honey bunch, and just remember Grandma loves you and has your back. For now.

by Anonymousreply 220January 8, 2022 8:31 PM

H was not an Arab he was from a Roman family. Philippus Arabs was.

by Anonymousreply 221January 8, 2022 8:56 PM

^ And Cleopatra was 100% Macedonian Greek by ancestry but that doesn't stop morons from claiming that Gal Gadot playing her means that BLACK HISTORY IS BEING ERASED!!!

by Anonymousreply 222January 8, 2022 8:58 PM

And it doesn’t stop you from amplifying those morons to score divisive points.

by Anonymousreply 223January 8, 2022 9:00 PM

Funny enough some DLers still wouldn't consider 100% Macedonian Cleopatra white since apparently white people can only have pink skin, blond hair and blue eyes.

by Anonymousreply 224January 8, 2022 9:00 PM

Maybe not 100% r222, there's various great-great grandmothers nobody is sure of, but those Ptolemies certainly were into the purity, and of course, the incest.

by Anonymousreply 225January 8, 2022 9:03 PM

Anything south of Switzerland is sus.

by Anonymousreply 226January 8, 2022 9:03 PM

R224, that is a peculiarly American thing. Javier Bardem was baffled at being described as a POC by Americans.

by Anonymousreply 227January 8, 2022 9:05 PM

Wogs begin at Calais!

by Anonymousreply 228January 8, 2022 9:06 PM

Sus?

by Anonymousreply 229January 8, 2022 9:07 PM

Suspicious; not to be trusted

by Anonymousreply 230January 8, 2022 9:09 PM

R227 Yep. Same with Antonio Banderas and Cristiano Ronaldo who are Europeans. I'm sure Joe Pesci, Jennifer Esposito and Sal Mineo had been called the N word growing up. Ricky Martin and Jennifer Lopez aren't considered white by many in The US either despite being predominantly Southern European in ancestry and considered privileged whites in their native Puerto Rico. The white people in Latin America are Spanish, French, Italian, Sicilian, Canary Islander and Portuguese descent.

by Anonymousreply 231January 8, 2022 9:12 PM

[quote]H was not an Arab he was from a Roman family. Philippus Arabs was.

Elagabalus was from a Roman citizen family of Arab ancestry on his mother's side (at least). Their ancestral priesthood of the sun-god was an Arabic religious tradition localized in Emesa, Syria: see Michael Pietrzykowski in Aufstieg und Niedergang der römischen Welt, Band II 16.3 (Berlin 1986) 1812.

by Anonymousreply 232January 8, 2022 9:20 PM

The right-wing freaks who scream about "white woke people" are the ones trying to ban LGBT books from school libraries

by Anonymousreply 233January 8, 2022 10:01 PM

R222 was probably cool with Liz Taylor playing Cleopatra even though she wasn't "Macedonian" either

Weird how some people are only into "accuracy" when it suits their purposes

by Anonymousreply 234January 8, 2022 10:04 PM

Syria was not Arabic in 200 CE, R232. It was Syriac and Aramaic.

by Anonymousreply 235January 8, 2022 10:07 PM

So it's agreed, Cleopatra can only be played by a Macedonian-Egyptian-African American-Syrian or Aramaic woman. But any way, a Strong Black Woman of Whiteness!

by Anonymousreply 236January 8, 2022 10:10 PM

Let’s continue with horny slut and Ancient Rome.

by Anonymousreply 237January 8, 2022 10:17 PM

that was a little more fun r237.

by Anonymousreply 238January 8, 2022 10:18 PM

R235, there were Arab communities scattered throughout the region in the Roman period, well before the Arab expansion in the 630s. One of them held the dynastic priesthood of Elagabal and produced the family that the horny slut emperor Elagabalus' family came from (via his great-grandfather Julius Bassianus). Get your facts right; I have you one reference and you can easily find others.

By the way, how exactly do you distinguish between "Syriac" and "Aramaic"?

by Anonymousreply 239January 8, 2022 10:19 PM

The slut wanted to kill his cute but boring cousin Alexander Severus.

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by Anonymousreply 240January 8, 2022 10:20 PM

Sal Mineo should have played this role in his youth. As he was a horny slut.

by Anonymousreply 241January 8, 2022 10:20 PM

True r239. Arab is kind of vague actually. I'm not sure it really means Saudi Arabian or that whole region for thousands of years. Paul supposedly goes to some Arab kingdom, but I don't think it's supposed to have anything to do with the Arabian peninsula.

It's a tangle.

by Anonymousreply 242January 8, 2022 10:21 PM

Arab is a cultural term. It's not a race but an ethnicity. When Arabs conquered parts of North Africa and West and Central Asia that caused an Arabization and mass conversions to Islam. The genetic makeups of those conquered populations were not massively wiped out, they just converted to Islam and took on an Arab identity. Also, I think what most people assume Arab would be darker-skinned Gulf Arabs from Saudi Arabia and Yemen and those populations are also mixed with East African. Syrians today can range from very pale skinned with fair hair and eyes to brown skinned. Elagabalus from the digital rendering looked like an olive-skinned Mediterranean boy who could fit from anywhere in the region. Many Syrians have that look as do many in the Arab world.

by Anonymousreply 243January 8, 2022 10:26 PM

thanks, r243. Also, fun fact: Iran means Land of the Aryans. I think of that when anyone tries to do some big "people of color" thing, or on the opposite side, some Neo Nazi bullshit about who the real white people are. Not sure it extends to Iran for them.

by Anonymousreply 244January 8, 2022 10:30 PM

By language R239. But you are right and I was wrong: the Emesan priests were most likely Arab (see link).

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by Anonymousreply 245January 8, 2022 10:31 PM

Now I understand why the deplorables hate intellectuals. These fact people can suck the fun out of a blow job with their pedantry.

by Anonymousreply 246January 8, 2022 10:32 PM

Fair, r246. We are forgetting the reason for the season, DL Icon (Really, one of the few who should be!) our Emperor.

by Anonymousreply 247January 8, 2022 10:36 PM

I just read that he would invite people over for ogies, and once they were spent he would suffocate them with violets. Yes, violets. He had a special ceiling made that would drop violets. The Victorian painter Lawrence Alma-Tadema immortalized the act in a painting. However, he substituted roses for violets. It's a breaktaking piece of art. Blow it up all the way and look at the detail on Heliogabalus's gold robe and the braided hair on the red-haired male.

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by Anonymousreply 248January 8, 2022 10:40 PM

that's just rude, r248!

by Anonymousreply 249January 8, 2022 10:41 PM

R242, "Arab" in the Roman period (at least) refers to speakers of Arabic dialects—although in this period and region many of their communities eventually switched to Aramaic, the most commonly spoken language there. The Nabataeans were an example; their kingdom was absorbed into the Roman empire in the early 100s.

R245, Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic—Aramaic is the more general term. Fun fact: still spoken in some form by a dwindling number of people, many of them in the Detroit area.

And, R246, I hate deplorables because they (almost by definition) have no intellectual curiosity and think that following up all the juicy factoids in the lives of orgiastic cock-hungry emperors is tantamount to sucking the fun out of everything.

by Anonymousreply 250January 8, 2022 10:41 PM

Just the thought of a power bottom young Tom as emperor makes me ejaculate

by Anonymousreply 251January 8, 2022 10:43 PM

That has to be the least efficient way to suffocate someone ever. He is the silliest silly to ever silly.

by Anonymousreply 252January 8, 2022 10:43 PM

I'm trying to stick to our beloved Elagabalus, I swear, but r250, I have read that about Detroit, and it is so fascinating to think there may be people there who speak the language of Jesus, or something like it (if there was a Jesus, yadda, yadda, yadda, a whole other damn thing ... back to Elagabalus I swear.

by Anonymousreply 253January 8, 2022 10:44 PM

[quote]The slut wanted to kill his cute but boring cousin Alexander Severus.

Boring, yeah, but I reigned for three or four times as long as he did before being assassinated!

by Anonymousreply 254January 8, 2022 10:45 PM

[quote]Boring, yeah, but I reigned for three or four times as long as he did before being assassinated!

Good for you, honey.

--Julia Maesa, the everloving Grandma

by Anonymousreply 255January 8, 2022 10:48 PM

It seems because he was an immature teenager, had controversial religious beliefs, maybe was transgender and was openly homosexual and even worse - a bottom! That probably caused a lot of this embellishments against him.

by Anonymousreply 256January 8, 2022 10:51 PM

[quote]"...he would go to taverns by night wearing a wig, and there ply the trade of a female prostitute. He frequented the notorious brothels, drove out the prostitutes and played the prostitute himself. he finally set a aside a room in the palace, and there committed his indecencies, always standing nude at the door of the room...while in a soft and melting voice he solicited the passers by."

Please, enough about Miss Lindzey!

by Anonymousreply 257January 8, 2022 10:52 PM

Did Julia Domna and Julia Maesa have a sort of Olivia-Joan rivalry? Can we center the mini-series on them?

by Anonymousreply 258January 8, 2022 10:53 PM

Teenager was probably the key r256. Nero was 17 when he became emperor. Commodus 18. Just not a great idea. Though in fairness, Caligula, 25, should have helped, but it didn't.

by Anonymousreply 259January 8, 2022 10:55 PM

definitely any series should be built around the women r258. I know that much.

by Anonymousreply 260January 8, 2022 10:57 PM

If you want a big budget, mass market movie the mother and grandmother have to be centered. A mass audience won't go to see a film about a sex crazed twink who throws his life away in the terminal pursuit of enormous cocks.

by Anonymousreply 261January 8, 2022 11:01 PM

sadly true r261. Though EVERY movie should be about a sex crazed twink, won't happen. And the truth is, the women are absolutely fascinating in that family, really running everything while the men are playing emperor or whatever.

by Anonymousreply 262January 8, 2022 11:02 PM

But murdering mothers is a box office draw?

by Anonymousreply 263January 8, 2022 11:03 PM

Absolutely.

by Anonymousreply 264January 8, 2022 11:03 PM

are you kidding me r263? Are you fucking kidding me?

by Anonymousreply 265January 8, 2022 11:04 PM

Are you guys drunk? A flamboyant crossdressing underage twink with a love of big dicks will not a box office draw no matter how much screen time you give the women involved in his life. Let it this be an independent arthouse film because at least we will see tons of big dicks and homosex and that's what matters the most.

by Anonymousreply 266January 8, 2022 11:05 PM

It actually might be r263. In many ways, our culture right now feels like the 70’s to me. I’m watching patterns mimic the 70’s, and one of those will be more character-type casting, more gritty realism. I freely admit it’s just a hypothesis, likely a silly one, it’s probably a form of unconscious bias on my part. I was born in ‘72.

by Anonymousreply 267January 8, 2022 11:06 PM

I see I’ve triggered the Beth Jarrett stans.

by Anonymousreply 268January 8, 2022 11:07 PM

If it was like the 70s, we would have heavily marketed pornographic films in movie theaters and interviews with celebrities bragging about going to see shock movies like Deep Throat and Pink Flamingos.

by Anonymousreply 269January 8, 2022 11:08 PM

Drunk? Yes, but beside the point r266. Ancient Roman decadence is always delightfully in season. Honestly, age will be the biggest problem. Make the little bastard 18, I say, and we're good. 14? Oh we are going to have some issues there.

by Anonymousreply 270January 8, 2022 11:09 PM

None of this matters because ultimately this mini-series will be about ME.

by Anonymousreply 271January 8, 2022 11:10 PM

I don't see the need to age him up as that's historically inaccurate. The actor probably should be over 18 though.

by Anonymousreply 272January 8, 2022 11:12 PM

I love your knot, Gordian. However, you are not a sex crazed twink, so now I'm bored.

by Anonymousreply 273January 8, 2022 11:13 PM

Elagabalus was from Antioch. Ancient Syrians were not considered Arabic as they spoke Greek and Latin not Arabic. Arabs of that time were a nomadic people living in tents not in palaces .

by Anonymousreply 274January 8, 2022 11:27 PM

yeah, well, be totally honest, r272, a movie about a sex crazed 14-year-old in the US of A? What happens there, do you think? Being honest.

by Anonymousreply 275January 8, 2022 11:28 PM

Don't fuck with me Nancy- Boy.

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by Anonymousreply 276January 8, 2022 11:29 PM

R274, do keep up.

by Anonymousreply 277January 8, 2022 11:32 PM

So Ancient Syrians were like Ancient Greeks, they were more fair and "white" than modern Greeks and Syrians?

by Anonymousreply 278January 8, 2022 11:33 PM

[quote]Elagabalus was from Antioch.

Elagabalus was from Emesa.

[quote]Ancient Syrians were not considered Arabic as they spoke Greek and Latin not Arabic.

Ancient Syrians spoke versions of Aramaic, and Greek as a second language.

[quote]Arabs of that time were a nomadic people living in tents not in palaces .

See R232 (and any reference work).

by Anonymousreply 279January 8, 2022 11:35 PM

Even modern Syrians are often very fair. Americans have weird ideas about "Arabs". They think they are are race and not a culture (linked by shared language and religions) which includes many different peoples.

by Anonymousreply 280January 8, 2022 11:36 PM

R275 You realize many American TV shows and movies feature teenage characters who are sexually active right? The Blue Lagoon is an American film. Heathers, an American film had an after-sex scene with 16-year-old Winona Ryder. 90210 is an American TV show. Dawson's Creek, an American TV show started the characters around 15 years old. America is not that prudish outside of annoying soccer moms and Evangelical politicians.

by Anonymousreply 281January 8, 2022 11:36 PM

It'd be an easier sell if the movie was about his lover Hierocles. Elagabalus is too insane and laughable for it to work with him as the main character.

by Anonymousreply 282January 8, 2022 11:37 PM

America is ready for a horny 14-year-old debauching Vestal Virgins and hunky charioteers and prostituting himself to Biggus Dickus.

by Anonymousreply 283January 8, 2022 11:38 PM

R283 America doesn't have to be "ready". Because it's about a gay main character and thus main audience will be gay men and history buffs who usually intelligent to understand 14-year-old boys are horny and like sex. The audience will not be religious prudes and suburban families who want wholesome entertainment. The idea of a sexually active gay Roman emperor nixes any mainstream appeal regardless of if he is 14 or 18. There is no reason to age him to 18 to make an unmarketable concept more marketable.

by Anonymousreply 284January 8, 2022 11:42 PM

Oh.

You're Talking about Ella-Gobble-Us.

Yup.

by Anonymousreply 285January 8, 2022 11:42 PM

I think he should be Disney’s wokest princess.

by Anonymousreply 286January 8, 2022 11:44 PM

Honestly r284 I hope somebody makes that movie. Totally fine with it. Love it. We can be mature. But I know exactly what would happen if it became even remotely popular. Shrieking and howling and sobbing about SAVING THE CHILDREN. It would. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 287January 8, 2022 11:45 PM

R287 Who fucking cares? That audience also bitches about historically accurate movies about slavery and the Holocaust. Why should we care about big babies who can't handle any type of truth that doesn't fit in their Disney-fied world. As a gay man, I could give two shits about what some religious uptight prudes want. They can cry all the time and I will lick those tears.

by Anonymousreply 288January 8, 2022 11:47 PM

you don't need to care r288. Make the movie you want to make. Imagine the movie you want to make. It makes no difference, obviously. Do it. Do what ever makes you happy.

by Anonymousreply 289January 8, 2022 11:49 PM

Please, please! Let's not let this glorious film about the cock-crazy boy tyrant divide us!

by Anonymousreply 290January 8, 2022 11:54 PM

R289 Ummm ok. You seem personally offended that I'm against lying about history to appease a small fringe of religious conservatives who are offended by homosexuality, adolescent sexuality and paganism. Let me clue in. This will never a movie for mainstream and it's better that way. I hope you feel better and accept that.

by Anonymousreply 291January 8, 2022 11:55 PM

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND FUCK ME!

by Anonymousreply 292January 8, 2022 11:59 PM

A modern youth discovers a book in his grandfather’s house before the funeral. As he reads about Elagabalus, his mind wanders mixing his own past from 14-18 with that of the depraved Emperor and his grandfather. Three time periods ala the Hours only more intertwined and mixed up. Film ends with youth triumphantly announcing his and by extension his grandfather’s pronouns at the funeral.

by Anonymousreply 293January 9, 2022 12:02 AM

You all realize, don't you, that that whole fucked-up dynasty would never have happened if they'd only stuck with me?

by Anonymousreply 294January 9, 2022 12:05 AM

John Waters, Paul Veerhoeven, Lars von Trier, or Brian Singer directing?

by Anonymousreply 295January 9, 2022 12:10 AM

The Ancients did not think in terms of straight vs gay the way we do today. They thought in terms of tops vs bottoms and what was appropiate for your social caste/position. A straight slave could get fucked by his owner without shame but a master bottoming for his slave was not approved of.

by Anonymousreply 296January 9, 2022 12:13 AM

He's my spirit animal!

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by Anonymousreply 297January 9, 2022 12:13 AM

Will you Arab posters create your own thread. You're boring the rest of us and it is rude to hijack a thread. TIA.

Now where were we? Ah yes, the teenage slut.

by Anonymousreply 298January 9, 2022 12:13 AM

[quote]when you call the 11th-century epitome's passage an addition by the epitomizer and the comparison with Suetonius as "apples and oranges," you need to show that Dio or another pagan author couldn't have said the same sort of thing—but they could and did. Example: the Historia Augusta, our *main source* for this kind of invective against Elagabalus.

R164, problem is that one could only cite the Historia Augusta as an example of a complex fake and purveyor of disinformation, regardless of whose agenda one thinks it was (nobody can agree on that point). Of the material relating to Elagabalus in the Historia Augusta, only 24% of it is deemed to be reliable. If it's "our main source," that's unfortunate, because it means that the majority of what's been passed down about Elagabalus is bullshit.

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by Anonymousreply 299January 9, 2022 12:24 AM

This bitch would dance in flamboyant parades through Rome in front of his imported sacred black stone, scattering petals in his wake and generally offending even gays with the sheer scale of his vulgarity. Then he'd retire to the palace to sit on a giant cock and, as stated, enjoyed LARPing as a prostitute. That upset some people who weren't familiar with provincial habits.

by Anonymousreply 300January 9, 2022 12:28 AM

Yes R296 sex was less defined by labels and more by acts. Penetrating others was expected of an adult free male. But getting penetrated was a big no and liking it was a bigger no. Notice how in Christianity and Islam the big sin is to lie with another man as if he's a woman. Basically saying having buttsex is degrading because it emasculates the receiver. Being attracted to another man is never mentioned as sinful because they didn't get the concept of being homosexual.

This attitude still exists in conservative countries where self-hating gay men will fuck other men but still claim to be heterosexual because they don't bottom.

by Anonymousreply 301January 9, 2022 12:29 AM

Can't Madonna play the granny who teaches her grandson to ride around in a chariot looking for Latino guys with big dicks?

by Anonymousreply 302January 9, 2022 12:32 AM

Not sure what point you're trying to make, R299. For all we know all the scandalous stories about Elagabalus are bullshit. The point is that they're contrived by ancient pagans to discredit other ancient pagans—Christianity has nothing to do with it, as is most likely also the case with the epitome of the lost Dio books.

by Anonymousreply 303January 9, 2022 12:52 AM

Screenplay by K. Sessums.

I need to get fucked RIGHT NOW !!!!

by Anonymousreply 304January 9, 2022 1:09 AM

R279

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by Anonymousreply 305January 9, 2022 1:39 AM

[quote]Not sure what point you're trying to make, R299. For all we know all the scandalous stories about Elagabalus are bullshit.

That's pretty close to my original point, R303.

[quote]The point is that they're contrived by ancient pagans to discredit other ancient pagans—Christianity has nothing to do with it, as is most likely also the case with the epitome of the lost Dio books.

We don't know that, R303, especially since there's no ancient copies or quotes from these works surviving - all of the manuscripts are from the second millennium of the Common (Christian) Era. That they were even deemed worthy of propagation/copying by Christian monks says something about their value to them as Christians. So Christianity would seem to have something to do with it.

In critical biblical scholarship, the observation has been made that nothing in scripture appears except for the fact that it was originally useful to someone's agenda; everything has, or once had, a point, even if it is no longer apparent to us now. The same observation may well apply to copied texts like the pseudo-histories we're talking about. The lettered Christian scribes who transmitted and may well have embellished them, did so to further a moralistic Christian point of view. That, and I think they were titillated by them; it was the equivalent of medieval porn for the celibate clerical class.

by Anonymousreply 306January 9, 2022 1:48 AM

There was no morality issue. A slut is a slut is a slut

by Anonymousreply 307January 9, 2022 1:50 AM

^ One man's slut is a another man's sassy baggage.

by Anonymousreply 308January 9, 2022 1:52 AM

SHUT UP AND FUCK ME!

by Anonymousreply 309January 9, 2022 1:57 AM

I find it extremely hard to believe that any of his very short marriages to women were consummated. I question whether he got it up.

by Anonymousreply 310January 9, 2022 2:09 AM

Don't underestimate the abilities of a 14 year old with a hard on.

by Anonymousreply 311January 9, 2022 2:11 AM

R306, in addition to clogging up the thread, your generalizations and speculative assertions only parade your own embarrassingly shallow understanding of the subjects you're talking about. I'll note only that in the case of the Historia Augusta, the oldest ms. is 9th century, and the evidence for its influence goes back to the 5th century (both of which the Wikipedia article you link to could tell you). The text is clearly coming out of a late pagan milieu; if you can find a pro-Christian, anti-pagan polemic in it that two centuries of scholarship hasn't, give us details; otherwise spare us the crude generalities.

by Anonymousreply 312January 9, 2022 2:11 AM

How did Christianity end up being mentioned in a thread about an ancient Roman Emperor?

The US is totally obsessed with it. It's stupid, revolting and inexplicable?

by Anonymousreply 313January 9, 2022 2:17 AM

On this thread only R306 is obsessed with it. The rest of us are obsessed with casting a movie about Elagabalus, the slutty size-queen emperor.

by Anonymousreply 314January 9, 2022 2:21 AM

Meh The US is not obsessed with Christianity, more just vocalizing moral superiority under the guise of wholesome Christian values bullshit. It's certainly not obsessed with the Ancient Roman Christianity which was more a syncretism of Paganism, Neoplatonism with Messianic Judaism than any of its modern incarnation. That said, I'd rather talk about this young gay boy who most likely got his reputation tarnished by anti-sodomy assholes. All he wanted to do was get fucked by hot dick. There are far worse emperors.

by Anonymousreply 315January 9, 2022 2:29 AM

Another reconstruction. Quite the cutie.

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by Anonymousreply 316January 9, 2022 2:36 AM

I have no problem with believing many of the sexual accusations made against him. Much of this behaviour is recognisable in some circles in our own time. Add these enduring impulses towards excess and ultra bottoming to a background that includes nearly unlimited power and a greater social tolerance for sexual diversion and it is credible. The credibility of some of the other stuff like claims of human sacrifice is harder to gauge because it's so utterly taboo and alien in modern culture.

by Anonymousreply 317January 9, 2022 2:36 AM

R312, supercilious much? You behave as if you've been personally insulted. Haughtiness and condescension is no substitute for having a point.

Having R313 chime in as sock support is a cute touch. Most of this thread is you and your socks talking to each other, isn't it?

by Anonymousreply 318January 9, 2022 2:39 AM

If you take in account he was only 14-year-old when he took power thus a victim of his hormones and age-based narcissism. It's easier to not be that harsh. Homophobia, femmephobia and bottom-shaming seems to be the biggest factor in his negative portrayal. He was crazy and selfish but not that bad compared to many others.

Human sacrifice still exists but in differing forms. Wars motivated by ideologies (hence sacrificing lives from the "other side" to achieve victory) and capital punishment (a holdover from religious ideas of reciprocal justice). Humans are moral relativists to the core.

by Anonymousreply 319January 9, 2022 2:54 AM

R312 Tiresome.

by Anonymousreply 320January 9, 2022 4:00 AM

What did his hole look like?

by Anonymousreply 321January 9, 2022 7:53 AM

Cloaca Maxima

by Anonymousreply 322January 9, 2022 7:56 AM

R268 Buck would never associate with a nasty thread like this.

However, that awful Conrad would.

by Anonymousreply 323January 9, 2022 9:14 AM

Casting call for an 18 to 22 year old Middle Eastern twink who looks 14 with a willingness to crossdress and worship big dicks!

by Anonymousreply 324January 9, 2022 10:37 AM

Why didn't Cadinot make this into an artsy gay porn back in the 80s? I'm convinced Pasolini would have done this too had he lived. Americans can't make movies like this. Leave this to the French, Spanish and Italian homosexual directors who worship Arab cocks.

by Anonymousreply 325January 9, 2022 10:39 AM

Elagabalus = the world's first DLer

by Anonymousreply 326January 9, 2022 11:46 AM

Meh, I already played this role back in 1981!

by Anonymousreply 327January 9, 2022 11:46 AM

Thanks r25. I had totally forgotten that scene.

I am surprised that with all of the mind numbing iterations of Drag Race there has not been one single Incontinentia Buttocks.

by Anonymousreply 328January 9, 2022 12:05 PM

[quote]In critical biblical scholarship

A phrase to chill the soul.

by Anonymousreply 329January 9, 2022 12:08 PM

Was Elagabalus really transgender was that just a form of slander against him because he was gender non-conforming and a flaming queen?

by Anonymousreply 330January 9, 2022 12:15 PM

*or was

by Anonymousreply 331January 9, 2022 12:17 PM

He has “smelling marble cookies” face in OP’s pic

by Anonymousreply 332January 9, 2022 12:21 PM

I had a minor obsession with him when I was about 13, but never heard of that novel—thanks, R130!

by Anonymousreply 333January 9, 2022 12:29 PM

I can sort of relate to his sex drive. As a teenager I was always horny too shy but had endless daydreams of having sex and hard ons came often in very difficult situations.

He was a front. At 14 families had power. They chose young guy and kept him few years. The life of the emperor was usually short and violent. He should have had kids with all of his wives. Then he could have had endless gay orgies but the bottoming should have happened in private.

by Anonymousreply 334January 9, 2022 2:17 PM

I like the semi-Greek form of his name, Heliogabalus, which puns on the worship of the sun (Greek "helios"). Was he a regular user of sunscreen and moisturizing unguents?

by Anonymousreply 335January 9, 2022 2:50 PM

^ Because the sun shone out of my arse.

by Anonymousreply 336January 9, 2022 5:43 PM

I think the biggest controversy will not be casting a minor or casting a non-Arab. The controversy will be portraying him as a cis gender gay boy and not as a trans woman.

by Anonymousreply 337January 9, 2022 5:52 PM

Pedo thread

by Anonymousreply 338January 9, 2022 5:54 PM

Reading some of Dio's accounts. It reeks of Orientalism. This sensual, beautiful teenage Arab boy who transgressed gender and sexual norms and introduced a foreign god to the Pantheon and having orgies in the open. These ancient historical accounts are usually exaggerated and intended to entertain as much as inform. Who knows what he was like in reality? I figure most likely an effeminate gay who was too young for his position and a pawn for others and easy target for character assassination. It would be too lazy to rely on these embellished accounts. I also have a doubt he was truly transgender, I think the whole stories of him telling others to call him "female titles" and wanting a vagina was added by the writers to humiliate him because probably was a bottom which was basically relinquishing any type of manhood. The Romans were a lot more prudish than given credit for.

by Anonymousreply 339January 9, 2022 8:26 PM

History is written by the winning side, the losers usually come off quite badly even in contemporaneous accounts.

by Anonymousreply 340January 9, 2022 9:03 PM

If anyone were brave enough to make a film about Elagabalus, then yes, the older women in his family would have to be the most important characters... because they're the ones with the interesting character arcs.

Elagabalus himself seems to have no arc, he's just a teenager shouting "I DO WHAT I WAAANT" like most teens do or want to do, and he learns nothing until it's too late. But his grandmother... she's the one who puts him on the throne, and then changes him out for a different grandson when he proves unsatisfactory and unpopular, how bizarre and calculating is that? I mean someone who would do that has the potential to be a character as fascinating as Livia in "I Claudius", someone who pushes their family into power, sacrificing unsatisfactory family members the whole way, in a perversion of normal familial love. Hell, maybe that could be a underlying theme of the film, "who's the real pervert here?".

by Anonymousreply 341January 9, 2022 11:10 PM

Possible inspiration for a plot line: this Edward Gorey drawing from *The Blue Aspic* has the caption "Caviglia's revival of *Elagabalo* was cut short when the authorities had the curtain rung down on the triple wedding scene."

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by Anonymousreply 342January 10, 2022 12:16 AM

As evil granny Julia Maesa

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by Anonymousreply 343January 10, 2022 12:22 AM

Over my dead body, R343!

by Anonymousreply 344January 10, 2022 12:23 AM

....and still, it COULD work....

by Anonymousreply 345January 10, 2022 12:25 AM

R343 Bloody hell I'm still alive and have references.

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by Anonymousreply 346January 10, 2022 12:30 AM

A mustachioed Roman?

by Anonymousreply 347January 10, 2022 12:39 AM

From what I've read, the granny is only in her 50's while the mom is in her 30's. And the mom was also described as a total MILF, lusted by every guys. The granny was still a serviceable GILF.

by Anonymousreply 348January 10, 2022 12:45 AM

[quote] "He had one of his big guys fuck him for the first time in an arena with the populace watching.

[quote] The crowd was instructed to cheer when his lover shot his load into his ass.

[quote] That's entertainment!"

Hot. But I'd expect them all to be sexually satisfying each other simultaneously.

by Anonymousreply 349January 10, 2022 12:52 AM

Enter Zoticus.

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by Anonymousreply 350January 10, 2022 1:11 AM

I think "predatoty botton" should become established in the DL dialect

by Anonymousreply 351January 10, 2022 1:29 AM

His name sounds bottom-y.

Get it, gurl!

by Anonymousreply 352January 10, 2022 1:33 AM

Think of how much more difficult it was to collect the huge-dicked men. "Scouring the world." So his staff were away for months on dick hunts. They had to go view men and then get them to come to Rome. Lol.

by Anonymousreply 353January 10, 2022 1:35 AM

I wonder if anybody at Disney would be interested.

by Anonymousreply 354January 10, 2022 1:38 AM

I read the Wiki page and was surprised he was dead by 18. So he started all of this really early. Granted 18 back then was more like 35 or 40 in terms of life expectancy, no?

Also, this:

"Dio says Elagabalus delighted in being called Hierocles's mistress, wife, and queen.[79] The emperor reportedly wore makeup and wigs, preferred to be called a lady and not a lord, and supposedly offered vast sums to any physician who could provide him with a vagina.[79][80] For this reason, the emperor is seen by some writers as an early transgender figure and one of the first on record as seeking sex reassignment surgery.[79][81][82]"

by Anonymousreply 355January 10, 2022 1:42 AM

R355 Life expectancy is way more complicated than that, people didn't just drop dead at 35 in the Roman world.

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by Anonymousreply 356January 10, 2022 1:54 AM

But, R356, for 3rd-century Roman emperors all bets were off.

by Anonymousreply 357January 10, 2022 2:21 AM

So who to play Hierocles? Hard to find blonde built guys in their 20's who can act. Hemsworth,Evans,Hammer all too old. Suggestions?

by Anonymousreply 358January 10, 2022 2:26 AM

Sounding like being a Roman emperor was generally harmful to one's life expectancy.

by Anonymousreply 359January 10, 2022 2:38 AM

[quote]So who to play Hierocles? Hard to find blonde built guys in their 20's who can act. Hemsworth,Evans,Hammer all too old. Suggestions?

Brad Pitt. They'll use Lucy's Mame filters.

by Anonymousreply 360January 10, 2022 4:58 AM

You could have actually read this thread, r355. It's all been covered multiple times.

I'm changing my mind about Granny from Madonna to Polly Walker.

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by Anonymousreply 361January 10, 2022 5:14 AM

Or I can not read the entire thread and post as I wish.

by Anonymousreply 362January 10, 2022 5:16 AM

Re the penile imports, will it be CGI or will the audience require absolute authenticity?

by Anonymousreply 363January 10, 2022 5:29 AM

No one is denying that you have the ability to post stupid, obvious, redundant things, r362. You've demonstrated that quite capably.

by Anonymousreply 364January 10, 2022 5:36 AM

Cassius Dio describes how Elagabalus referred to Hierocles as his ‘husband’, and delighted in walking around with black eyes after insisting that his brutish lover should beat him up.

by Anonymousreply 365January 10, 2022 6:16 AM

How's this for a drama queen:

"Following a Syrian priest’s prophecy that he would meet a violent end, he was determined that he would kill himself in style rather than die at the hands of others, and he was thorough in his planning.

If he discovered trouble was looming, he proposed to hang himself with a noose of purple and scarlet silk, stab himself to death with swords made of gold, or jump from of a specially built ‘suicide tower’.

‘It was constructed of boards gilded and jewelled in his own presence,’ recorded one historian. ‘Even his death, he declared, should be costly and marked by luxury, in order that it might be said that no one had ever died in this fashion.’"

by Anonymousreply 366January 10, 2022 6:19 AM

I would have owned the little bitch.

by Anonymousreply 367January 10, 2022 6:31 AM

I went through a few boyfriends like that.

Thank God I'm old.

by Anonymousreply 368January 10, 2022 6:39 AM

R21, the Ancient Greeks considered large penises vulgar. The Ancient Romans, on the other hand, were putting up large phalluses everywhere.

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by Anonymousreply 369January 10, 2022 6:53 AM

Miss Elagabalus was a tranny. Trannies have been slutty whores who get murdered for thousands of years.

by Anonymousreply 370January 10, 2022 7:36 AM

I bet Camille Paglia could TALK about this guy I'd pay good money to hear that.

by Anonymousreply 371January 10, 2022 7:42 AM

Polly Walker already played the "Julia Maesa" or an equivalent part and did so amazingly.

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by Anonymousreply 372January 10, 2022 8:12 AM

They were a trans person of color who was murdered!

by Anonymousreply 373January 10, 2022 9:15 AM

The filthy whore probably had the legions sorted by cock size!

by Anonymousreply 374January 10, 2022 9:49 AM

Not one of his "marriages" produced a child. Unless you count his sperm farts.

by Anonymousreply 375January 10, 2022 9:51 AM

r372 She played the mother of Augustus; since it was pretty historical, that's quite a difference. The grandmother of Elagabalus was Augustus' wife, don't know if he had several, played by a young actress in only a small role.

by Anonymousreply 376January 10, 2022 9:59 AM

R339 is obviously unfamiliar with the Latin authors and Roman culture and society in general.

Cliché, r340. The Athenians lost the Peloponnesian wars, yet we only have their accounts of it and nothing by the Spartans.

by Anonymousreply 377January 10, 2022 11:11 AM

R377 Regardless, I don't think there's enough information about him to judge his character. Also, were their records on par with todays that remove biases and exaggerations. It's the 21st century and we apply more logic and dispassion when looking at history. Just like with the Bible and other ancient documents, I would not take these accounts as literal facts, maybe nuggets of truth but highly exaggerated.

by Anonymousreply 378January 10, 2022 11:18 AM

The latter. Auditions can easily be held on TikTok.

by Anonymousreply 379January 10, 2022 11:46 AM

Oops, R379 was a response to R363.

by Anonymousreply 380January 10, 2022 11:48 AM

Yes, everyone listen to R378! One's frolics with tender underaged minors in Capri were **highly** embroidered. Maybe even completely fabricated, most of the time.

by Anonymousreply 381January 10, 2022 11:50 AM

[quote][R372] She played the mother of Augustus; since it was pretty historical, that's quite a difference. The grandmother of Elagabalus was Augustus' wife, don't know if he had several, played by a young actress in only a small role.

Can anyone make sense of R376? Polly Walker played Augustus' mother, Atia, a role that was written into a major scandalous character, well beyond anything we know of Atia from history (which is very little). And the grandmother of Elagabalus was sister of a previous empress, Julia Domna; they're not related to Augustus (who lived around 200 years before). "Played by a young actress in only a small role"—??? Am I missing something?

by Anonymousreply 382January 10, 2022 11:58 AM

[quote]Re the penile imports, will it be CGI or will the audience require absolute authenticity?

I think CGI'd 18-inch penises would be an essential element in this world.

by Anonymousreply 383January 10, 2022 1:20 PM

R306 good post.

by Anonymousreply 384January 10, 2022 1:33 PM

r382, you are correct, Atia in ROME played by Walker was an amalgamated fictional character based on the real life Atia, mother of Augustus and Clodia, nicknamed Quadrantaria. The ROME creators took some liberties there.

by Anonymousreply 385January 10, 2022 1:48 PM

Excuse me, but I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to define the correct pronunciation of the Emperor's name. Is it EllaGABalus, or EllagabAlus, or... Please apply your phonetic expertise. Thank you so much!

by Anonymousreply 386January 10, 2022 3:57 PM

The first one, R386. The -bal- has a short "a," so according to Latin accent rules, the stress accent goes back to the third-to-last syllable. I don't know where the ancient Greek pitch accent went in his name, but in any case English pronunciation normally follows the Latin stress accent in ancient names.

by Anonymousreply 387January 10, 2022 4:00 PM

*SNAP!* I've got it! We'll give cameos to Helen Mirren and Malcolm McDowell, who will play the twink whore's evil Granny and...I don't know... some horny, pervy Grandpa with a giant cock! AND! With all these humongous dicks on display.... We.Film.It.In.....3D!!!! We're gonna make a fucking MINT on this movie, babies!

by Anonymousreply 388January 10, 2022 4:17 PM

DL's fave closet case Hallmark heartthrob Trevor Donavan as husband charioteer Hierocles. But is he a good enough actor to play a top?.

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by Anonymousreply 389January 10, 2022 8:46 PM

Bob Saget would have made a great perv uncle/advisor.

by Anonymousreply 390January 10, 2022 9:14 PM

Who's the most powerful bottom today?

by Anonymousreply 391January 10, 2022 9:18 PM

Chasten Buttigieg.

by Anonymousreply 392January 10, 2022 9:21 PM

[quote]Who's the most powerful bottom today?

Excuse me?

by Anonymousreply 393January 10, 2022 9:24 PM

Was Rome the most promiscuous of the major world empires? Their homes were filled with pornographic murals, the women as well as the men divorced and remarried frequently, their gods& goddesses were always fucking and the Romans probably had more slaves than any other empire, since they conquered so many far flung areas and took whole towns and cities as slaves. Men who own female slaves were always raping them. That’s how I think the South of the US became so religious. The men raped so many women they compensated by demanding religiosity, femininity, demureness and coy behavior from white females. Because the men were such pigs, they demanded their women be conservative and God-loving Christian women.

by Anonymousreply 394January 10, 2022 10:18 PM

Pompeii was FULL of brothels and pornography. Whether that was typical or the result of being a sleazy resort town we don't know.

by Anonymousreply 395January 10, 2022 10:20 PM

[quote] their gods& goddesses were always fucking

Now you tell me!

by Anonymousreply 396January 10, 2022 10:36 PM

Pompeii was an upper-class resort town, it wasn't a sleazy, low-class place at all. It was like an ancient Miami Beach.

by Anonymousreply 397January 10, 2022 10:36 PM

Well rich people can best afford commercial sex.

by Anonymousreply 398January 10, 2022 10:40 PM

[quote] Was Rome the most promiscuous of the major world empires? Their homes were filled with pornographic murals, the women as well as the men divorced and remarried frequently, their gods& goddesses were always fucking and the Romans probably had more slaves than any other empire, since they conquered so many far flung areas and took whole towns and cities as slaves. Men who own female slaves were always raping them.

Humans like sex. Pornography and prostitution is universal and art has always used eroticism. Any human with power can abuse it. So humans with sex drives plus a drive for power can become rapists. Nothing about Rome is unique. Slavery was commonplace in the ancient world and accepted. Also why would the gods not fuck? Their theology had gods that were very anthropomorphic and thus had all the failings of any other human but with power. Gods could also die. Also, most people would divorce if they weren't socially pressured to make a dead marriage work. Women being able to divorce was progressive. Humans by nature are quite slutty and not monogamous.

[quote] That’s how I think the South of the US became so religious. The men raped so many women they compensated by demanding religiosity, femininity, demureness and coy behavior from white females. Because the men were such pigs, they demanded their women be conservative and God-loving Christian women.

No. The US was always religious. It was settled by religious extremists known as the Puritans. Most Southerners were poor whites (who didn't own slaves) and Black slaves (later freedmen) who needed some type of religion to make their awful lives more tolerable. Plantation owning elite used religion to keep both groups in their place and complicit. However many of the social reforms actually to end slavery and to push for public education were motivated by religion. So it had pros and cons.

by Anonymousreply 399January 10, 2022 10:41 PM

[quote] Men who own female slaves were always raping them.

I'm sure plenty of bored noblewomen forced hunky young slaves to fuck them too. We know white plantation mistresses would use Black men as walking dildos. It's not like they can say no when they have no power whatsoever and being men there would a far harsher penalty if exposed regardless if it was consensual or not. I always think of that scene from Genesis where Joseph, the servant of Potiphar is being pressured by Potiphar's wife to sleep with her. His refusal caused her accuse him of rape and he was guilty by default of being lower-caste.

by Anonymousreply 400January 10, 2022 10:53 PM

[quote] Also why would the gods not fuck?

Has the Christian God ever fucked? Man was made in his image, so he does have a penis. Is he circumsized, I wonder?

by Anonymousreply 401January 10, 2022 10:54 PM

Great name for a band, God's Dick Cheese

by Anonymousreply 402January 10, 2022 11:06 PM

R401 Rabbi Joshua Bar Joseph? I'm thinking he was cut.

by Anonymousreply 403January 11, 2022 12:57 AM

^ Think again Jew-Boy.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 404January 11, 2022 12:59 AM

Well. The Bible was compiled over thousands of years. The early Old Testament had a lot of evidence of polytheism with El and Yahweh being separate gods and possibly having wives like every other Middle Eastern god did. Also Yahweh having the same temper tantrums like every ancient god being he was a storm god just like Zeus. Modern Christian theology is completely different and the idea of God being preexistent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omnipresent comes more from Greco-Roman philosophical beliefs than anything else.

by Anonymousreply 405January 11, 2022 1:01 AM

Pompeii was the Fire Island of it’s time.

by Anonymousreply 406January 11, 2022 1:05 AM

God is a force. An all encompassing, all saturating, all things in all places at all times energy. God is the universe, itself.

by Anonymousreply 407January 11, 2022 1:13 AM

R407 Pantheism is what that's called and it's becoming very popular. It's been a commonplace of East Asian dharmic religions, Native American beliefs and African tribal beliefs. Modern Christianity has that belief of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient god. But that was sourced from Neoplatonic beliefs and other Greek philosophers.

Now many in the Ancient World believed in anthropomorphic gods who were basically human beings but with simply more powerful. Cultures had their own pantheons and even people could have their own patron gods. Since gods were anthropomorphic and humanlike they could get very angry, lustful, depressed and spiteful and cause hurricanes, fires, wars, mass hysteria, etc. Gods can also die and be brought back to life. The solar and lunar eclipse are seen as the temporary death and resurrection of the local sun god. That's why humans would perform complex rituals, worship sessions and sacrifices because they believe it would appease the gods and stop misfortune. It was simply their way of explaining all the chaos of the world. The gods were not innately benevolent and often narcissistic assholes (including the Old Testament god) but in a time and region with tons of wars, natural disasters, famines, disease and poverty and general lack of education, easy travel and literacy. It made sense. People were more myopic and paranoid.

by Anonymousreply 408January 11, 2022 1:26 AM

[quote]It's the 21st century and we apply more logic and dispassion when looking at history. Just like with the Bible and other ancient documents, I would not take these accounts as literal facts, maybe nuggets of truth but highly exaggerated.

And yet Schliemann was able to find Ancient Troy because he took the mythological accounts as historical fact.

But don't get me started on Schliemann and his archeological desecrations.

by Anonymousreply 409January 11, 2022 1:41 AM

"Was Rome the most promiscuous of the major world empires? Their homes were filled with pornographic murals, the women as well as the men divorced and remarried frequently..."

Well, the divorces among the ancient Roman upper classes were frequently due to economic or political reasons, not just because the spouses couldn't stand each other. Most upper-class marriages were arranged, and if the family saw some economic, political, or social advantage in allying with someone new, they'd dissolve someone's marriage and make them marry a member of the new ally's family whether they liked it or not. Or, divorces would happen when someone got onto the emperor's shit list, or lost all their money, or whatever.

The Romans weren't big on romance. At least for the rich, marriages were for advantage, not love, and fidelity was not expected. Except by Julius Caesar, who'd fuck anything that would hold still, but who said that his wife had to be seen to be above reproach.

by Anonymousreply 410January 11, 2022 2:21 AM

"Pantheism is what that's called and it's becoming very popular."

If you have to worship something, it makes the most sense. We're all part of the universal energy and we will be returned to it. Energy becomes matter and matter returns to energy. It's never destroyed, it just changes form

Totally logical

by Anonymousreply 411January 11, 2022 2:39 AM

[Quote] Because the men were such pigs, they demanded their women be conservative and God-loving Christian women.

Because the men were such pigs, they demanded their women be conservative and God-loving Islamic women.

Same same.

by Anonymousreply 412January 11, 2022 5:53 AM

"Even prior to the union, his agents throughout the realm kept their eyes peeled for any tasty morsel that might interest the emperor. Shortly after the marriage, a snack was sent his way in the form of a ruffian named Diocles. According to Cassius Dio (the premier gossip of ancient Rome), Elagabalus was besotted. So much so that he comfortably suffered abuse at Diocles’s hands; black eyes and bruises were boasted at more than one senate hearing.

Elagabalus’s procurers went a slightly different route next time. The athlete, Zoticus, was shuttled to the capital after news of his extraordinarily large “equipment” reached the imperial palace. Elagabalus wined and dined him in his private baths, but when it came time to perform, Zoticus proved a flaccid disgrace and was sent away tout suite. "

by Anonymousreply 413January 11, 2022 6:55 AM

[quote]Cassius Dio (the premier gossip of ancient Rome)

Fuck you, R413!

by Anonymousreply 414January 11, 2022 11:15 AM

"Pompeii was the Fire Island of it’s time."

Literally.

by Anonymousreply 415January 12, 2022 7:01 AM

Ancient Rome seems so gay from what I've read in this thread and elsewhere over the years. Evidently, all was OK as long as you were, or had the reputation as, the top.

by Anonymousreply 416January 12, 2022 7:07 AM

If you had social status over the person you fucked (male or female), it was usually OK. Homosexual activity on its own was not a problem.

by Anonymousreply 417January 12, 2022 7:10 AM

Roman wit Martial said that Julius Caesar was known as every woman's husband and every husband's wife. Caesar was reportedly bi and that was not approved of.

by Anonymousreply 418January 12, 2022 7:14 AM

R416 Nothing has changed, tops rule.

by Anonymousreply 419January 12, 2022 7:15 AM

^ Yep the world is divided into fuckers and fuckees

by Anonymousreply 420January 12, 2022 7:20 AM

He looks quite stylishly modern as the bust.

by Anonymousreply 421January 12, 2022 7:21 AM

R418, it wasn't that Caesar was bi, it was that he was known for liking it up the ass, that brought the criticism. You were supposed to be a top at that social class.

by Anonymousreply 422January 12, 2022 7:25 AM

R422 All the emperor’s (except pedo Hadrian )we’re insatiable bottoms though.

by Anonymousreply 423January 12, 2022 7:29 AM

^ Oh, the irony, kind of like lawmakers who are actually the crooks

by Anonymousreply 424January 12, 2022 7:32 AM

r424, or like Brecht asking what's the difference between the guy who owns the bank vs the guy who robs it?

by Anonymousreply 425January 12, 2022 7:44 AM

[quote](except pedo Hadrian)

Antinous was 18! The term is ephebophile!

Sheesh.

by Anonymousreply 426January 12, 2022 11:57 AM

14 when the relationship started, R426

by Anonymousreply 427January 12, 2022 12:07 PM

A muscular 14 year old with hairy armpits and legs who enjoyed hunting. Back then there was not a concept of being an underage minor. Once you developed sexually, it was accepted you would have sex. Hence why girls were sheltered and married off once they had their period. I believe until a young man grew a beard and reached about 20 that they were considered a full adult male.

by Anonymousreply 428January 12, 2022 1:07 PM

We didn't kiss until he was 18, and he put on the pharaoh costume.

by Anonymousreply 429January 12, 2022 1:12 PM

He was later reincarnated as Li'l Nas X

by Anonymousreply 430January 12, 2022 1:27 PM

Welp, the thread got full of nonsensical off-topic bad takes on everything, and when it's on the topic they are even worse. Yes, everyone was gay, now leave Antiquity, religion, philosophy and theology alone and forget about it. Katapugones or even worse the lakataproktoi, of which DL generally and this thread particularly are full, should leave these finer intellectual matters to those who can face them, and devote themselves to their arsenokoitai activities.

by Anonymousreply 431January 12, 2022 1:28 PM

^ Look who has the biggest stick stuck up his ass

by Anonymousreply 432January 12, 2022 1:38 PM

You dare compare me to Tiberius, you assholes?

by Anonymousreply 433January 12, 2022 1:48 PM

R432 Well, dear euruproktoi, why don't you look yourself in the mirror and see.

by Anonymousreply 434January 12, 2022 2:39 PM

And where do your credentials come from, R431? I assume from your more-or-less correct transliterations of the nominative plural forms that you can read the ancient Greek texts fluently.

by Anonymousreply 435January 12, 2022 2:43 PM

Which ones were less correct, R435, or are you alluding to the fact that he doesn't differentiate between epsilon and eta, for example?

by Anonymousreply 436January 12, 2022 2:52 PM

Not epsilon and eta, R436 (there are no etas in those terms, only epsilons), but between omicron and omega—that would have been a more accurate transliteration.

by Anonymousreply 437January 12, 2022 2:57 PM

Gotcha. I mistakenly thought that there was an eta in arsenokoitai because of the arrhen/arsen root.

by Anonymousreply 438January 12, 2022 3:07 PM

Good guess, R438, but the stem of that word is arsen- (ἀρσεν-), and compounds are formed with that. The form with the long "e" (ἄρσην) is only the nominative singular (typical for nouns of this class). On a side note, it's easy to think of the nom. sing. as the "regular" form of a noun, since it's the dictionary form, but in fact it often doesn't reflect the stem—especially in the third declension.

by Anonymousreply 439January 12, 2022 3:15 PM

Yes, I should have known this as I'm acquainted with how it works, like the long vowel (omega) in nom. masc. sing. "ōn" becoming "ontes" in nom. masc. plural. with the short vowel (omicron). It's years since I studied this stuff.

by Anonymousreply 440January 12, 2022 3:21 PM

This thread is full of cacodataloungers!

by Anonymousreply 441January 12, 2022 3:22 PM

It's strange in a thread so full of (historical or otherwise) barbarities to complain about people not following your preferences in transliterating words, anyways, these transliterations are well attested in proper sources. Well, if you didn't like these, we can always recur to Latin, and there's this expression which even remains in usage in some Romance languages, ani usti, charred assholes, which I find rather applicable here. Ite ad mentulam, et relinquite id.

by Anonymousreply 442January 12, 2022 3:46 PM

See, bitches, this Greek grammar shit is what they wanted me to focus on, when I was busy focusing on some serious gladiator dick!

by Anonymousreply 443January 12, 2022 3:47 PM

The grammar shit is tedious, no matter what language.

by Anonymousreply 444January 12, 2022 4:00 PM

"Elagabalus wined and dined him in his private baths, but when it came time to perform, Zoticus proved a flaccid disgrace and was sent away tout suite. "

Interesting. Was he an actual straight guy, or was he just turned off by Elagabalus? Or maybe he just couldn't perform under the pressure.

by Anonymousreply 445January 12, 2022 4:29 PM

R431, you were the one flaunting your arcane lore and telling the rest of us to keep away from antiquity etc. You still haven't answered the question where your (smattering of) credentials came from. Sed tu ad libros eas ne ignorantiam molestius feramus tuam.

by Anonymousreply 446January 12, 2022 4:32 PM

R445, presumably it was the combination of wine and hot (steam)bath that left Zoticus unable to perform. Plus maybe Elagabalus's girlish wiles were a major turn-off.

by Anonymousreply 447January 12, 2022 4:38 PM

I don't think most men in those days would have complied with modern notions of straightness. Yes people have and had natural preferences, but as in places like Afghanistan etc today, most men in ancient Rome also fucked other males on the side.

by Anonymousreply 448January 12, 2022 7:39 PM

not "on the side" r448, that is what is different. It was understood that women and subordinate males were in the same category: inferiors to be fucked by superior men. There was no trauma and shame and Ye Gods what if somebody finds out! It was pretty blunt. You were however not supposed to bottom. That's what made Elagabalus unusual. He did not give a fuck, so to speak. He accepted fucks.

by Anonymousreply 449January 12, 2022 7:42 PM

As somebody posted in the Lawrence of Arabia thread last night, everybody knows women are for babies and boys are for fun.

by Anonymousreply 450January 12, 2022 9:10 PM

Even women think that. Economic need (or social restrictions) is the reason they don't live it more often. Women with their own money or women who simply believe they can survive on their own will gladly live "boys are for fun" until when/if they actually fall in love.

by Anonymousreply 451January 12, 2022 9:13 PM

Less talk about fucking words and more words about fucking please. This isn't Ancient History 101.

by Anonymousreply 452January 12, 2022 9:16 PM

I love the ecstatic collision of high and low brow in this thread. Only homosexuals can achieve this.

by Anonymousreply 453January 12, 2022 9:17 PM

Words, words, words, I'm so sick of words.

I get words all day through, first from him, now from you --

Is that all you blighters can do?!

by Anonymousreply 454January 12, 2022 9:33 PM

" blighters "?

by Anonymousreply 455January 12, 2022 10:35 PM

It's a quote from My Fair Lady, r455. A blighter is a more refined word for asshole or jerk.

by Anonymousreply 456January 12, 2022 10:46 PM

"I believe until a young man grew a beard and reached about 20 that they were considered a full adult male."

A boy would "put on his manly" gown and be considered a legal adult at 15 or 16, and was expected to start his 18 years of military service at 18, but he was considered to be fuckable (a catamite) until his beard grew in around 20.

So while the Romans did have a concept of childhood or subadulthood, I guess they didn't have a concept of being legally underage for a sex. It was legal and socially acceptable to rape slaves of any age, the only restrictions were on buggering free adults or boys of a certain social status. But wealthy men who liked a bit of cock up the ass even when their beards had come in went for the cock anyway, regardless of gossip. Just about the only restriction on male sexuality was what he could afford.

by Anonymousreply 457January 12, 2022 11:12 PM

You have to remember how much shorter lifespans were back then.

by Anonymousreply 458January 12, 2022 11:19 PM

i might be dead by 30. FUCK ME NOW!

by Anonymousreply 459January 12, 2022 11:31 PM

[quote] Nothing about Rome is unique.

Lol

Yeah. Quite a few things about Rome were unique. Including Roman slavery.

by Anonymousreply 460January 13, 2022 12:30 AM

Brent Corrigan can finally break through to regular film in this starring role!

by Anonymousreply 461January 17, 2022 11:37 AM

Isn't she a bit old now?

by Anonymousreply 462January 17, 2022 7:37 PM

She couldn't stay 17 forever.

by Anonymousreply 463January 18, 2022 2:32 AM

Well, it's possible, r463, but the cost is rather high.

by Anonymousreply 464January 18, 2022 2:35 AM

If shameless whores today were killed and their headless nude bodies dragged through the streets, we might not have so many reality "stars."

Then again - it might be a new category on Tik Tok.

by Anonymousreply 465January 18, 2022 10:18 PM

In this entire thread, how can this scene not have already been posted? Did ANYONE watch Rome on HBO besides me? By the way, the current age of consent in Italy is 14. Yikes!

"Large Penis is always welcome..."

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 466January 18, 2022 10:54 PM

It was quoted.

by Anonymousreply 467January 18, 2022 11:12 PM

I know r467, that is why I was sure the video had been posted someone where. And it was quoted with no reference to what it was.

by Anonymousreply 468January 19, 2022 7:06 AM

Just delving deeper into the histories of Rome. This thread might need a part two because I would love to hear what the scholars have to say about the number of gay rumors circling Julius Caesar himself. There were a number of men he was rumored to have been involved with, bottoming to some of them.

"As a powerful man in ancient Rome, Julius Caesar probably had sexual experiences with both men and women. This wouldn’t have been a cause for concern among his contemporaries. Bisexuality was more or less the norm during that era. However, it was Caesar’s taste in partners and sexual positions that scandalized Rome and threatened to cause lasting damage to his reputation. Today, ancient Rome is often imagined as a land of promiscuity and sometimes perversion (thanks to figures like Nero and Caligula), but there were still sexual rules in Rome. And Julius Caesar was rumored to have broken several of them."

Julius Ceasar early on was rumored to have lost his virginity to an older the older king Bythnia.

Sex with a men was quite common and OK. There are stories of Roman soldiers raping the men of a town that they've conquered as an act of dominance. Bottoming was NOT OK, especially for someone of JC's standing.

by Anonymousreply 469January 19, 2022 6:31 PM

The standard book on this topic is Craig Williams's *Roman Homosexuality*.

by Anonymousreply 470January 19, 2022 6:36 PM

Desine pudere passivi homines!

by Anonymousreply 471January 19, 2022 6:57 PM

[quote]Desine pudere passivi homines!

O care!

by Anonymousreply 472January 19, 2022 8:42 PM

Julius Caesar is not a fag! And I'm the dame who can prove it!

by Anonymousreply 473January 19, 2022 9:41 PM
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