Four-hundred year old Gingerbread recipe ~ gonna try it!

They had food processors back then?

R1, the didn't have baking powder back then. If if there was any leavening, it would be baker's ammonia.

Gross, you can’t eat something 400 years old! 🤮

Rye flour? Dense. Building the structure should be great, very sturdy.

Eating it... not so much.

I don't even know wtf half of those ingredients are, lol! Please let us know how it turns out, OP.

I'm not massively keen on that, OP, but good luck! I make Eliza Acton's gingerbread - that recipe's 177 years old, and as good today as it ever was.

It's hard to find rye flour. Will wheat suffice?

Eldergays, is OP making this up?

Nope, r8, [italic] not that I would know from personal experience being the vision of youth and beauty that I am looking at least ten years younger than I am. [/italic]

I think it was on a Sohla's Ancient Recipes episode. That may have been spelt flour, I don't remember. Anyway, rye flour isn't hard to find but it's much heavier and more dense than a cake flour.

1/4 cup of gingerbread spice sounds like too much.

This is one you may like, Op.

And I invented and first made it, BITCHES!

If it is a 200 yr old recipe why do the diections include a food processer

Jesus Literalville is abuzz tonight.

A food processor means a rock and mortar.

Metric system?

It's been my experience that ancient recipes turn out horrible lacking many of the ingredients that make food taste good to our modern palettes

It was probably originally written by one of the posters here.

R10, 1/4 cup is four tablespoons. My German recipe has five.

[quote]To make white Gingerbread.

[quote]Take halfe a pound of marchpaine* past, a quarter of a pound of white Ginger beaten and cerst, halfe a pound of the powder of refined sugar, beate this to a very fine paste with dragagant** steept in rose-water, then roule it in round cakes and print it with your moulds: dry them in an oven when the bread is drawn foorth, upon white papers, & when they be very dry, box them, and keepe them all the yeare.

[quote]*marchpaine past = marzipan paste

[quote]** dragagant = gum traganth

[quote]From: Delightful Daily Exercise for Ladies and Gentlewomen; John Murrell; 1621

[quote] top and bottom heat

Sounds pretty hot.

It says if you mix the dates with a bit of water it makes them softer. I tried mixing them with a bit of brandy and they are all mushy. I wonder if I have to drain them, again.

Oh, and rye flour is impossible to find at normal stores. I had to order it off Amazon.

[quote] rye flour is impossible to find at normal stores

What, seriously?

That stuff ("Roggenmehl") is easily available where I live. You can get it in ordinary supermarkets.

[quote](1/4 cup) gingerbread spice

Funny how the spices aren't listed and it sounds like a cookie version of "pumpkin spice" which... I think... was coined by starbucks.

What is DL's position on drained dates?

Are they as heinous as drained pasta?

There are recipes for Gingerbread spice mix. I used:

3 tbs cinnamon; 3 tbs ginger; 1 tbs allspice; 3/4 tsp nutmeg; 3/4 tsp black pepper; 1/2 tap cloves. I saw cardamom was optional, which I love, and added 3/4 tsp of that.

And r23, I looked for rye flour and couldn't find it. Maybe, if I went to the Whole Foods in Orlando, they might have it.

Am grinding almonds, now!

R26, generally it can be found in the Bob's Red Mill section. Often the flours are at ankle level; so, it would be easy to miss.

Note: most ancient gingerbread recipes require the dough to sit for as long as *two months* before rolling out.

r27 The longer you chill the dough, the more flavor will develop. The flour will also absorb more of the moisture so the thicker and chewier the final texture will be. After 72 hours the dough will begin to dry out and you risk it going bad.

[quote] It's been my experience that ancient recipes turn out horrible lacking many of the ingredients that make food taste good to our modern palettes

R17, I've trained my modern palate to be adaptable so that I can appreciate different cuisines. But my modern palette remains inflexible.

Well, this is interesting. After getting all the ingredients together, the batter seems kinda runny. Like a cake batter. Does the four soak all this up, or do I need more flour?

Four-hundred-year-old recipes usually do not call for a commercial-strength food processor.

How is it runny? Your only liquid is the eggs

Perhaps this guy's experience will be of help to you?

r32 Honey was wet. But some more flour helped. Found this online and it helped "Dough should be soft (not dry or crumbly) but not sticky. If sticky, add a few tablespoons of flour until desired consistency is achieved"

Got it rolled up in plastic and in the fridge. Will give it a few hours, but not days as suggested.

I have a 5,100-year-old Sumerian gingerbread recipe that has been handed down in my family. It's better than this piffle.

Instead of rye flour (easy to find, unlike the claims of R7) for the sturdiness that R4 poses for, the Sumerian recipe calls for powdered bones of one's enemies.

It is delicious and lasts forever!

Okay, this stuff is a mess. It is like food grade concrete. Some of it dried to the the bowl and chips away like wood paneling. It is tasty, though. I never thought black pepper was in gingerbread, but that is what the secret spice is, IMHO. The lemon zest is an added flavor, but I wonder if it will cook out. Wet, it seems like more spice is needed, but we shall see. I am assuming the roll will firm up a bit in the fridge, as it is a bit limp right now. Three hours for chilling, perhaps?

For those having trouble getting rye flour see if there's an artisinal bread bakery in your area. Perhaps you can buy a small amount from them. There are several grades of rye flour, each with a different water-absorbing capability. Some are quite coarse though, but with such a small amount in the recipe you can easily adjust the moisture level to reach the desired dough texture.

Don't let the dough sit more than a day or two, after that it will ferment faster and possibly develop off flavors.

I'd like to try those recipes with the 4 Tbsps. and 5 Tbsps. amounts of spices. Your tongue must be dancing after a few of those cookies.

Well, the dough has been sitting in the fridge for about two hours and it is not much harder than before. I realize now there is no fat in the dough to make it harden, so I am just waiting for the flour to absorb the honey, as I assume the eggs will cook away. I suppose I could roll it at this texture, but will it bake to a crisp cookie? I would like to make a house, or a shack, but I'm not sure I have that much patience. I wonder what 400 year old icing recipe to use.

I like the sound of this cookie as there is no molasses in it. I don't like the tar taste of molasses.

" But my modern palette remains inflexible. "

Let me guess, most everything about you is inflexable

^ *inflexible*

Didn't want you to have a grammar orgasm

@r35 "Sumerian recipe calls for powdered bones of one's enemies. "

But then once you eat it you start voting Republican and no one wants that

Well ??? How is it OP ??? Waiting with baited breathe.! Maybe it was runny because some gingerbreads are cakelike.

I'm still here.

The dough is still in the fridge and hasn't hardened up much. It seems the texture of regular cookie dough, but I'm not sure if I should add more flour and more baking soda? Or, just leave it and forget about crunchy cookies? I am working on momma's Swedish rye bread, as well. That smells divine!

Double yum !

Well?

R42, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Why would someone become a Republican just because she pounded your miserable bones to mortar for a good cause?

Well, the gingerbread roll is starting to harden up, slowly. I now understand why you have to let it sit so long in the fridge. The flour takes time to absorb all that moisture which cannot be rushed. So, I will have boxing day cookies, tomorrow.

However, the two loaves of momma's hot Swedish rye bread with Boursin cheese spread was a hit and was inhaled by all. Now, to finish the lasagna and salad for dinner.

Elaine, don't eat that cake!

This is my favorite new soap opera. I e checked this thread dozens of time in the past day to see how those damn cookies turn out. It’s one cliffhanger after the next!

Happy Boxing Day, everyone! Hopefully, today we will have delicious gingerbread cookies.

So, the dough has been in the fridge for about 21 hours. I threw it in a hefty ziplock bag, as Saran wrap can be difficult at the best of times. Looking at the brown lump in the bag, it seems to be the color of pecans and the texture of polenta. In fact, the amount of dough would be about the size of three rolls of polenta.

Opening the bag, I expect it to smell heavenly, but not so much. I do smell the spices, zest and brandy, but it is overcome by the raw four scent. Don't smell zest, at all. It seems to be the texture of modeling clay, not really sticky, but pliable.

Tasting it at this point. Hmm. Well, it is not as spicy as I thought. In fact, it takes a moment for any spices to kick in, but the black pepper is first to come, then the others. I have the aftertaste of cardamom, which I love.

I am not sure what to do at this point, except preheat the oven to 325. I am serious thinking about adding more spices and zest, but I make bake a sample, first.

r51 Definitely bake a few samples. You never know how the oven heat will cause a dough to react since you've never made this before.

Once heated the raw flour taste will disappear and the spices will come to the fore.

Roll out a few sample cookies thinner and thicker than the recipe says, that way you can judge which you prefer. Baking times will vary.

Freshly baked gingerbread cookies are OK, but become better with some mellowing. Store them in a tin(separated by layers of waxed paper) and you'll find their texture and taste improves after several days.

You can decorate them prior to baking as your recipe states, or afterwards with either a thin confectioner's sugar icing, or royal icing.

My word, thank you, BronzeAgeGay! This is exactly what I was thinking.

Taking my first batch out of the oven, I was a bit dismayed as I seemed I made a batch of rye crisp. Ugh. The spice was faint, even though I put more than a 1/4 cup of spice in it. I didn't taste the lemon zest, at all.

I also baked the test at two thickness. I discovered the proper thickness for this recipe is approx 1/8 to 1/4 inch. The baking soda does make it rise a bit, but not much.

After the second test batch with minimal flavor, I decided those old folks were stingy with their spices. So, I rolled then next batch in spices and add lots more zest. This was more like it. If I am gonna make these things, I want some flavor for the effort.

The cookies never did crisp up as I hoped, but perhaps with time they will dry out. However, I want to eat them now. Still lacking was the lemon flavor, so I made a lemon glaze to annoint the wafers.

r53 I'm surprised the spice flavor didn't come through, my gingerbread cookie recipe uses far more flour and less spice, and it is very flavorful. Might your spices be a bit long in the tooth?

I don't see any fat in the recipe, apart from the minimal amount that the egg yolks and ground almonds would provide. Fat has a way of extracting and distributing flavors. Gingerbread cookie recipes are traditionally short on fat but usually include a small amount. If you want to try this recipe again I would suggest warming your spices in some a few tablespoons of melted butter(cook on top of the stove in a small skillet for just a minute or two, you don't want to actually fry them, just "wake 'em up a bit") The butter would also make the dough easier to roll out by shortening the gluten strands in the flour.

Considering the honey and dates in the dough, of which there seems to be ample, were the cookies overly sweet?

Is the guy at R33 a gay?

OP, I don’t know where you really got the recipe, or how the ingredients were shown (wouldn’t be grams, if 400 years old). But your gram to cup conversions are fucked. Particularly honey: 130g would i think be under half a cup. Sounds like you’ve made some basic errors.

I think my first confusion was with the dates. I couldn't figure how to grind them up. So, when I saw the option to add some brandy to soften them, it may have been too much, even though I drained them well. I think that is why I had to add more flour. The honey is fine, not too sweet. Don't even taste it much. Don't know about the spices. They weren't old, but I ended up adding about 6 tablespoons total to the mix. Right now, I have them air drying before I put them in a tin. These will be perfect for dunkin' in tea or coffee.