Sandra Bernhard Looks Back at Her Falling Out with Former Close Friend Madonna

I think they fell out over Ingrid Caesares, love triangle.

I hope it wasn't over a man.

I never stand up for Madonna, but I'm sure it's Sandy's fault as much as it was Madge's. It would not be easy to be friends with either of them--they're both incredible egomaniacs.

Sandras been dining out on this dust up for 20 years now but I love her on her own account. Would love to see her show live sometime.

"She doesn’t really want somebody around who reflects too much of who she is."

I'm not sure what this means, Sandra.

In other words, Maddona's relationships are transactional.

Is Sandra lesbian or bi?

Good thing hagdonna adopted kids that will want to inherit her money otherwise she would die a very lonely saggy old woman.

Did they scissors or do the licky licky like Oprah and Gayle?

Bernhard aged much better.

That's because I didn't age, r10. I reversed the aging process entirely.

[quote]I never stand up for Madonna, but I'm sure it's Sandy's fault as much as it was Madge's.

In Christopher Ciccone's book, where as everyone knows he didn't spare Madonna when it came to criticisng what she did, he pretty much said both he and Madonna found Sandy really negative to be around after awhile. I can't find my copy of the book at the moment to quote it exactly, but it sounded like Sandra was getting pretty cynical and miserable around 1991 and they just didn't want to deal with it.

I wonder if the whole Ingrid thing was Madonna's way of forcing a break up between her and Sandra. One thing that comes up again and again (not just in Christopher's book, but in interviews with Donna and Niki as well) is that Madonna really hates having uncomfortable conversations with people and always gets others to do it. I can see her sort of almost instinctively trying to piss of Sandra so they stop being friends, rather than have a grown up conversation with her.

The most specific recounting from Sandra I heard was an interview with her where she says the breakup was "tacky" and Madonna said to her: "I can do whatever I want, we're not in high school!" I think this was during that Cigarette Come to Life interview on YouTube.

zzzzzzz. Debi is still Madge's friend and that goes way back. Madge was friends with an ex boyfriend of mine. It was a normal friendship - they were young and arty together. Except my friend was sweet as pie and Madonna isn't sweet. I don't think its easy for grand personalities to be friends for a long time. The novelty wore off for Madonna, apparently.

Sandra is in "Truth Or Dare" acting all sychophant and fawning. She clearly liked revolving in Madonna's universe. Madonna probably kept her around for laffs, then grew bored and threw that toy away.

Found it! Page 195 of the paperback edition:

[italic]In Madonna's private life, Sandra Bernhardt is still on the scene, but Madonna and I both find her a little too negative, down in the mouth, not a happy person. Nonetheless, Madonna still invites her to her 1991 New Year's Eve party. Sandra brings her then girlfriend, Ingrid Casares, with her. A butch version of Audrey Hepburn, Ingrid is boyish, fawnlike, with big, slanting doe eyes. She's tall, thin, and extremely cool. For the past year, ever since Ingrid met Sandra after one of her shows, Ingrid and Sandra have been an item. But the moment Ingrid meets Madonna, as far as Ingrid is concerned, Sandra is history.

^(I typed it out exactly, by the way, errors and all.)

R15, we’re Ingrid and Madonna a couple?

R17 If you believe the tabloids. They had a hot as fuck trainer.

Ingrid was photographed with Madonna for years. Like 20 years. That must have been some love story or friends with benefits.

R4, I saw her live at a club in North Beach in San Francisco, and it couldn't have been a more accepting and appreciative crowd, but Sandra was just a nasty bitch, spewing vulgarities and diatribes on the audience, to the point where it seemed like everyone was stuck with their nasty drunk mothers. It was very, very ugly, unremittingly so, and she never let up on her anger and it was a sad and shameful evening on Sandra's part.

I found my review from an old DataLounge thread: "I saw her several years in San Francisco with a very supportive, friendly audience, and she was just nasty, crude, bitter, and aggressively attacking the crowd for no reason. She did bash Anderson Cooper, and I thought of DL, but it wasn't funny or interesting, just that he is short. She was like a haranguing harpy and the evening was a huge downer. I would never go to see her again."

Is anyone really a close friend of Madge?

Christopher should write another book.

R5, Goethe said “ Tell me with whom you associate, and I will tell you who you are.” Madonna didn’t want people using her friends to read who she was.

Which is an awfully Byzantine way to live.

Madonna doesn't strike me as the person who has long term friendships - wasn't Madonna friends with Gwyneth Paltrow for a period?

I feel a sad Sandra that she's still being asked to comment on a brief friendship she had half her lifetime ago.

When she dies will her obituary include the line "In the early 90s she was friends with Madonna, something she would be asked about for the rest of her life".

R24 Goop doesn't seem to keep friends either.

"Christopher should write another book."

"How I Went Bald, Broke And Fat"

That picture is a reminder of how Madonna used to look human.

[quote]Sandra's been dining out on this dust up for 20 years now

Thirty years. Thirty fucking years. Do people not get tired of the story? Of asking about it? Of asking about it again? And if answering the same question for the 329th time?

Sandra was probably hard to get along with. Ingrid Casares: I can see her immediately jumping ship (Sandra) for Madonna. That's life. Happens to people in trailers as well.

I'm not a fan of Madonna, but I disagree that she's supposed to have these "forever friendships." I do think she is a user of people, but I think she was actually friends with Rosie O'Donnell, Sandra, etc. Friendships come and go and are transactional, to some degree, large or small.

Debi Mazar is still a friend, apparently, anyway.

After more than 30 years, I still think "Without You, I'm Nothing" is brilliant.

Again? Give it a rest toots.

I don't believe for one minute that Madonna was ever a lesbian, but lesbians could be very useful to Madonna to do her bidding and to give her some street cred

Madonna is still friends with Debi Mazar and Rosie. She may still be friends with Demi. But it does seem like she doesn't hold friendships for very long.

It must have been a really humiliating break-up if she won't come right out and say EXACTLY what happened

R8, Madonna also has bio kids.

Few people stay friends forever.

The falling out was over Sandra Bernhard girlfriend

Sandra walked in on them while Madonna was getting out of her girlfriend shower

I'm sure there is an innocent explanation to that

I met Sandra after one of her shows a few years ago and she was very nice to me, a clearly starstruck fan. Her show was excellent, too.

rose-colored glasses hide a ruby-red puzzay!

Couldn't she just deflect the question? I agree she's been talking about it for a long time. If an interviewer asks about it, all she has to say is, 'No." The interviewer will move onto the next question. Also, anybody who doesn't know that the questions are vetted in advance of any broadcast is wrong. It's all gone over carefully beforehand. That said, I imagine Sandra's interested in getting mileage out of this story that everybody has heard, and is a little tired of hearing Sandra's variations of.

Remember her random cameo with Janeane Garofalo on the Sopranos?

I saw Sandra perform a couple of times in the 80s, 90s, and 00s. At the height of her fame, when she was doing Roseanne in the early 90s, she played Northrup Auditorium in Minneapolis, which could seat about 4500; ten years later I saw her oerform in Portland to a crowd about a twentieth that size.

Her concerts were always really funny, but I always remember two things about them: (1) I never enjoyed her singing (she thinks she has a much better voice than she does); and (2) by the end of the night I would always become very sick of her snide stage persona, and would think it was such a relief I didn't have to spend lots of time with her.

It's Madonna still friends with Rosie? I seem to remember Rosie recently saying that she hasn't spoken to Madonna in years.

Madonna doesn’t want to face a woman who is the same age as herself. She doesn’t want to face the reality that she’s not 20 years old anymore. That’s what it means.

[quote] Madonna also has bio kids.

Yeah, ugly loser ones, which is why she bought new ones.

I don't think a lot of the people at that level of wealth and fame really have friends the way we think of the term. They have assistants (aka yes-men and yes-women) and children. When they're starting out being famous they become curious about other famous people they can meet, and a few they hang out with for a few years--but it's mostly so they can boast about knowing the person.

I think Madonna only has transactional friendships, and I know Rosie has had a lot of them too. They are both people who have been too obsessed with their own fame during their lifetime--and neither of them probably should have had children.

Sandra suffered the same fate as Janeane Garofalo and Margaret Cho and Kathy Griffin. She moved away from her brand. Garofalo and Cho just became miserable political whiners and Griffin became what she made fun of, but Bernhard tried being upbeat and positive and everyone is love and light and stopped being funny. But when Sandra was at her best, there was no one like her. I've seen her live over a dozen times since 1988 and many of those shows were unforgettable. I think she started to lose it around 2007/2008.

I saw here a couple times and she was never rude to the audience. A miserable and funny cunt, yes.

I've seen her live 4 times.

1st time she was GREAT;

2nd time she was very late, acting the Diva and pretty much didn't want to be there;

3rd time on top form again - very enjoyable show;

4th time - she has mellowed which I don't think did the show any favours. Her singing abilities have also begun to decline which happens with age to some people but she spent too much time talking about her daughter which was really dull.

The third and last time I saw her she was pissed about the sound system and the sparse crowd. And she did a couple of lame jokes about her daughter. Then she finished up with a great cover of Eres Tu, which made me cry.

I’ve dropped all my friends from youth. Nobody stays friends forever. I don’t have the energy to pretend like I care what they’re doing any longer.

That's not my story at all, r51. I've kept many friends from my youth.

She means Madonna doesn’t want a real friend (or partner) that truly knows her and is her equal who calls her out. This is why Madonna dates young boys that are beneath her and primarily function as servants. They don’t know her.

R52 - That’s great for you. I’m just not wired to be interested in other peoples’ lives any longer. I have a very small circle of 3 and that’s it. I find that people still want to initiate friendships with me and I strongly discourage it. I know I won’t be able to reciprocate.

I think Sandy has mellowed and is happy now

I wonder if Camille Paglia (formerly Madonna's biggest cheerleader in academia) is still a fan of Bernhard.

I wish "Truth or Dare" included footage of Bernhard being toxically negative to Madonna and Christopher.

Im with R51. I just dont have the energy for friends anymore. I used to have plenty,but as I (and they) aged I realized many of us just didnt have much in common anymore. The few I have kept up are very good friends,people I know I can lean on if needed.

Madonna always has to have sycophants. I'm sure she kept Ingrid Caesares on a leash for decades and only let her have a taste of pussy a handful of times during that entire period while leading her on.

I'm surprised when Madonna cut Ingrid loose she didn't find a bunny boiling in her kitchen.

Sociopaths use people. They don’t sustain friendships.

Madonna is an ugly Catherine Trammell.

[R57], does it exist as in did it happen? Christopher said in his book that he and his sister tired of Sandra's 'negative' ways.

R45 Her ugly loser kids hate her.

Ingrid says Sandy's a LIAR!!

^Ooh, lesbian cat fight. This is going to be good

Team Sandy!

Madonna is a pretend lesi.

Ingrid looks like she's part weasel always scowling as if anyone actually wants her in the picture, not the celebrity she's glomming onto

She's only stayed in the fold because she's been Madonna's on-call bidet and rabid vaginal gobbler for three decades.

Typical frau falling out. Happens thousands of times a day all of the country. Why does it matter after all these years?

R43, for what it's worth, when Christopher was doing the rounds promoting his book, he was on the Howard Stern show, and he said there that Madonna was no longer friends with Rosie, because Rosie was "crazy".

r63 The Sex Book was cringetastic. Sandra should be counting her blessings.

Sandra was obsessed with Madonna as a fan, singing her praises on Letterman before she ever met her. I remember her once looking out to the camera and pleading "Madonna, please be my friend."

Sandra basically offered herself as a doormat and got treated like one.

in r63 look how thin Madonna's legs are, she looks anorexic

I can believe that, r68. Rosie is super charasmatic, but after reading her interviews in The View tell-all book, WOW. Zero filter.

Rosie and Madonna never break up their friendship permanently and Rosie has often mentioned over the years having Madonna on the phone.

[quote] Sandra was obsessed with Madonna as a fan, singing her praises on Letterman before she ever met her. I remember her once looking out to the camera and pleading "Madonna, please be my friend."

I thought they became friends because Sandra used to mock Madonna in interviews or maybe during her shows. The please be my friend thing was sarcasm. Then Madonna contacted her and told Sandra she was a fan and that threw her off because she didn’t expect Madonna to have a sense of humor about herself. So they became friends after that.

Can someone remind Camille Paglia to take her lithium? Jesus.

To be fair, that's her ankle r71, we can't see her leg above the mid-calf.

The Sex Book story has been Ingrid's story for years. There was a book about Madonna out in 2008 or so that described Ingrid as a suck-up (which she is) and she got really angry about it, and that's when she started telling people that Sandra was jealous because Ingrid got to be in the Sex Book but she didn't.

Madonna was absolutely insufferable after Sex came out.

[quote]"There's a whole generation of women-Courtney Love, Liz Phair, even Sandra Bernhard to a certain extent-who cannot bring themselves to say anything positive about me even though I've opened the door for them, paved the road for them to be more outspoken. Some of Liz Phair's lyrics are blatantly sexual, and if I said those things, they would be viewed in quite a different way. But she has just started her career, so she's not as intimidating. She doesn't have the power I have, so people are amused by it.

[quote]"But none of these women would want to recognize that. In fact, they slag me off any time anybody asks what they think of me or compare them to me. It's kind of like what a child does to their parent-they denounce you."

Ingrid is euro trash.

Forgot to quote the part where Madonna talks about Sandra while pretending like she's not talking about Sandra:

[quote]Sandra Bernhard, once Madonna's official best friend, now is so bitter that the comedian included a version of "Erotica" in her last stage show, reworking its chorus as "Neurotic." There's a long sigh, and what follows is punctuated by pauses, more sighs, and then reluctant spillages of words. "Ever since our friendship fell apart, I've never really spoken about it. She's spoken so much about it that I felt it would be more dignified if I said nothing. Obviously I'm still very important in her life-which is quite the opposite of what she's saying-or she wouldn't talk about me."

If Rosie is "crazy," then why did Madonna go on vacation with her along with her sister Melania and Debi Mazar?

Madonna surrounded herself with ugly lesbians attracted to her power and fame so she could lord over them.

She never played in the big leagues and never could. Classic Narcissist.

If you walk into a room, and your the biggest deal in that room, you're in the wrong room.

*you're

[quote] Obviously I'm still very important in her life-which is quite the opposite of what she's saying-or she wouldn't talk about me."

That’s fair enough.

R4 Was just going to make the same comment about Bernhard’s decades-long obsession with Madonna. Remembering this show at the tiny Jane Theater 20 years go where she mocked Madonna’s wedding in Scotland.

I've always enjoyed her cabaret shows, more for the comedy than the singing. I remember she outed Belinda Carlisle as bi in one of her shows.

R74, from what I've heard Sandra say, and this is just one interview, I don't really know much about this whole issue, Madonna and Sandra first met in the mid80s at a party. Sandra kinda new Sean and Sean was like: "Hey, let's go say hi to Sandy" and Madonna was typically rude and cold towards Sandra. It was later that Madonna went to a show of Sandra's and went backstage to invite her to go out. So I wonder if those early skits of Sandra making fun of Madonna came out of Madonna's early behaviour towards Sandra?

A version of the story from Sandra's pov is in the video below anyway. Starts at 6:44.

Sandra is like the racist white lady that’s constantly talks about hating Trump in order to overcompensate.

Madonna is like the racist white lady that never wants to talk about politics cause it will reveal they love Trump.

Both are horrible.

[quote] "There's a whole generation of women-Courtney Love, Liz Phair, even Sandra Bernhard to a certain extent-who cannot bring themselves to say anything positive about me even though I've opened the door for them, paved the road for them to be more outspoken. Some of Liz Phair's lyrics are blatantly sexual, and if I said those things, they would be viewed in quite a different way. But she has just started her career, so she's not as intimidating. She doesn't have the power I have, so people are amused by it.

What's funny about this is that Liz DID compliment Madonna. According to people who knew Liz, she was actually kind of obsessed with her.

These women aren't going to tell the truth about anything that happened, because each has their own version of the events slanted to make themselves look blameless. Do you think that Madonna would admit that she was a cunt or would Sandra admit that she was a real bitch? Not likely

[quote]Madonna is like the racist white lady that never wants to talk about politics cause it will reveal they love Trump.

Exactly. Remember how when Biden was first elected she said she wanted to blow up the White House?

She such a GQP cunt!

You can never have a real friendship with a user. And Madonna is a classic example of someone who uses people until she no longer has any use for them.

[quote] Exactly. Remember how when Biden was first elected she said she wanted to blow up the White House?

You liar. She did not say that after Biden was elected. She said at the women’s march after dump was.

[quote]And Madonna is a classic example of someone who uses people until she no longer has any use for them.

EXACTLY!

R51, I think you are missing out on one of the great pleasures of life past thirty if you have dropped your friends from your youth. My best friends are people I knew in high school and college.

R93, I strongly suspect that post was sarcasm.

Sandra Bernhard is one of the ugliest human beings i have ever laid eyes on. I find it difficult to even look at her for very long.

A Lot of people think she is attractive...it is more to do with her confidence

Sour grapes from both

Madonna also took a one-two punch to Sandra by releasing a cover of Peggy Lee's "Fever" which had been a regular live song Sandra had performed in her act for years

Career Starfucker Ingrid while she was dating Sandra before she jumped onto the Madonna gravy train

Lez Be Friends

I had a female neighbor who would sleep with her friends' husbands. Not because she was attracted to the men. But just because she could. I think she felt some superiority over a friend, secretly knowing she had slept with the woman's husband. She was married herself. Her husband had to suspect something. The woman was sick. This was the 80s. I bet she's hoping her kids don't get ancestry tests and discover that at least one is a half-sibling instead of a full sibling to the others.

There is something really annoying about Ingrid. Ugh.

Is she out of Madonna’s life now? If so, what happened?

[quote]There is something really annoying about Ingrid.

She's the classic starfucker celebrity hanger-on.

Ingrid's career was being a upscale club owner. Starfucking and social climbing is what they do. I think she's fine and was chic when she was younger.

I've never really "got" Sandra. I don't find her humour that funny or clever, and her singing grates on me. But there is something about her that makes you watch her. I went through an entire compilation of her on the David Letterman show during the 80s (and briefly in the 90s) on YouTube, and didn't zone out or anything.

Ingrid doesn't seem to be in Madonna's orbit anymore. Possibly because Madonna thinks she's a 25-year-old woman who is hot and hangs around with people around that age.

Sandra's Excuses for Bad Behaviour is one of my favourite albums from the '90s. Like Erotica and The Velvet Rope, it embraced queerness and was just overall a solid album from a female performer.

She may not be the greatest singer but that album is really enjoyable.

Does Ingrid still own clubs? Maybe Madonna can take pussy.... er posse to Ingrid's clubs.

Tori Amos did backup singing for her for awhile, didn't she?

[quote]Possibly because Madonna thinks she's a 25-year-old woman who is hot and hangs around with people around that age.

I remember years ago Rupert Everett saying Madonna was much more sane and grounded than anyone else with her level of fame. I guess that's all over now.

Ingrid seems to have dumped Madonna for a true talent and start...Miss Cristal Connors!

Ingrid has zero relevance apart except as a fawning hanger-on to Madonna. No one would know who she is or even mention her name without somehow being associated with Madonna.

Sandra has a career of her own

R112 another DL crypt dweller who thinks TIME DOES NOT MARCH ON. Your pic is 18 years old, Honey. Sheesh!

I bet Ingrid loves Doggie Chow!

It's funny, even without the Internet being readily available back in '92/93 anyone could tell Ingrid was a hanger-on.

Ingrid wasn't a "hanger on" she was a party promoter. She knew everyone and they went to HER parties.

Oh, hi Ingrid r117!!

Merry Christmas!

She was a whore, darlin'

Gracias cariño. Feliz Navidad a ti también. Tengo un gran polvo si te interesa.

I would go back to 1991 in a heartbeat, even if Sandra was there.

I spotted those two gals sitting together at the Canal Bar back in the day, at the height of their friendship. They were hot shit and knew it. I’m sure Sandra loved the attention.

I watched Truth or Dare a few weeks ago at a 30th-anniversary screening and it was so sad to see Madonna be so strong, so focused and at the top and then remember what she has turned into.

It's like she is a completely different person now. Not just the butchering of her face and ass but her personality and the way she talks.

R109

Man: I work in software

Sandra: I work in hardware, nothing stays soft around me honey.

Without reading the entire thread AND reading between the lines of what Sandra said, I think r53 is right. You can pretty much tell what happened to their friendship. Sandra probably got as close to Madonna as one can get. But Sandra is a real person and probably got really comfortable calling Madonna on her bullshit - probably one too many times in her acerbic tone. She probably called her out for being fake and not a real friend. Sandra probably said Madonna only wanted yes men around her caught up in her orbit, her celebrity. Always being on is always being the person Madonna needs you to be for a friendship to continue - only taking and never giving.

Madonna probably said, “oh yeah, I’ll show you how much people love me,” and slept with Ingrid. Ingrid immediately was caught up in Madinna’s orbit and dropped Sandra like a bad habit. It’s very Kathy Griffen, Anderson Cooper, Andy Cohen where the red headed comedian is left in the dust while all the other friends run off to frolick.

Debbie Mazar is probably still friends with Madonna because she never calls her out. She knows what it takes to be her friend. Not that Debbie is caught up in Madonna’s orbit. Just that she is probably aware of Madonna’s limitations as a friend and keeps everything at that level. Debbie seems very real and probably has real friendships with real people that we will never hear of.

Debi is so real she spells Debbie "Debi", honey.

But Debi did call Madonna out last year re: Covid.

Ingrid < Maria

I adore María Casares.

R125, a lot of probablys there.

Ingrid vehemently denied being a “yes woman” to Madonna but Madonna’s brother said she was in the book excerpt someone posted above. Also said Sandra was too negative, which is believable, but again, coming out of the mouth of Madonna’s brother. Everyone has an angle.

Here's a recent photo of Ingrid Casares and Jamie Lee Curtis. Ingrid has held up well, looks-wise.

That's not Ingrid. That's Jodie Foster's wife Alexandra Hedison.

Debi Mazar now lives in Tuscany, Italy.

R133, I agree that doesn't look like Ingrid, but here's the Shutterstock page where the photo came from. Says Ingrid Casares. The URL also says Ingrid Casares. I would consider Shutterstock reliable.

Another crypt dwelling DL eldergay. The JLC photo is from 2011. Doesn't even look like Casares. And most of all, 2011 is NOT recent. FOR FUCKSSAKES:

2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent. 2011 is NOT recent.

That’s Alex Hedison

Most of these women have always made lesbianism seem so sleazy and optional.

I concur—it is for sure Alexandra Hedison. Ingrid looks like an olive-skinned Sinead O’Connor with hair (or a Latina Audrey Hepburn).

[quote]I would consider Shutterstock reliable.

Well, clearly not, as that is not Ingrid in any way, shape or form. I recognised Hedison immediately; she was in The L Word as Dylan.

Madonna's social circle has always been kind of skanky and sleazy.

Girls being girls.

Madonna was cute then.

r141 I wore the penny loafers & scrunched white socks combo to death in 1988.

r141 I forgot how unhinged, uncensored, and wild late night talk shows used to be.

It's not like Sandra is putting out press releases about her relationship with Madonna.

Every interviewer asks her about it and she answers honestly.

I always loved Berhnard, and I really got to know her really after she was at her peak. My favorite thing about Bernhard is that she's a great interview.

r141 I wonder how much coke Letterman did back then.

Starfucker4Lyfe

r148 Wow, she doesn't stop, does she?

Would Ingy hang out with Chrissy Metz?? Well?

I wonder if Sandra and Gayle King ever used to call each other and commiserate?

R141 Madonna’s superstarpower always shines thru. She’s like a magnet whenever she goes. That’s crazy

Madonna's face looks so much better there.

Which one, [R153]?

r154 it looks better in r141 than with all the unnecessary plastic surgery

[quote]Every interviewer asks her about it and she answers honestly.

The interviewee and his/her publicist decide what questions can be asked in advance. If Sandra didn't want to talk about Madonna, then she wouldn't be brought up by the interviewer.

Sandra is an interesting person, but she needs to stop talking about this tired old subject.

Madonna was so human in that Letterman clip.

^ Yes, but damn, she couldn't even pull that little skit at the end off without sounding like a wooden try-hard. I can see why Madonna liked Sandra, she needed Sandra to teach her how to be spontaneous and funny... Too bad Sandra failed

Ingrid has crazy eyes, it's uncomfortable to look at photos of her.

Madonna is like Streisand style-wise. Early on they made their careers and image being wildly original and constantly changing their look. Then in older age they settled into one look and never ever deviated.

Letterman always seems a little apprehensive to me when Sandra Bernhard was a guest. She loved messing with him and you never knew what she was going to do or say.

R156 Yes it is Sandra's fault that every interviewer asks her about Madonna and she should have a pre-interview discussion forbidding everyone from asking about her for the rest of her life

Madonna is like Courtney Love (she claimed she didn't know who she was at one time). They like people who advance their careers. Paltrow was big buddies with Madonna at one point but you never hear about it anymore.

Didn't Paltrow fuck Guy Ritchie, ending their friendship, Madonna's marriage, and inspiring Madonna's song "She's Not Me"?

R145/R162: Oh, sweet summer child. No, you don't get it. R40 already explained how celeb interviews are set up.

Sandra has been milking her dead friendship with Madonna for years. She's not "ambushed" with this topic. She could easily avoid discussion of it, but she doesn't because either A) she's not over it, or B) it keeps her relevant by association.

Capisce?

R165 get a load of this queen who thinks she has some inside knowledge

R166: Inside knowledge? LMAO! It's common knowledge, you ignorant cunt. Get a load of your Sandra Bernhard stanning. Amusing, because you type like a Gen Z know-it-all who knows nothing at all.

R145/R162/R166: And your giving yourself WWs for your ignorant comments is so obvious and pitiable.

To clarify for your thick skull: the common knowledge is that celeb interview questions are vetted and agreed-on in advance. Why Sandra continues to milk her link with Madonna is speculation, however.

R167 R168 honey, the world tuned you out long ago

^Yet here you are, STILL responding to me. You are not the world, hon.

Your trolling is amateurish. Your pose is laughably disingenuous.

Thanks, [R168]. It's weird when you state the obvious, wh. is completely non-threatening, wh. you did, and somebody has a mental breakdown over it. A mental breakdown over a fact. I don't get it. But I'm not batshit cray.

I said the same thing upthread. Anybody who thinks celeb interviews are spontaneous is fooling only themselves.

One thing I noticed was Sandra's appearance on Wendy Williams, when Wendy started talking about celebs using cocaine. Sandra went right back on topic and shut Wendy down.

^^ *Clap**Clap* Girls, girls, you're all pretty so let's try to get along here

Ingrid, known as Madonna's shadow, is a psycho sycophant. She cheated on Sandra with Madonna. She would eat dog shit if Madonna told her to. Anyone who's "friends" with Madonna is not mentally sound.

[quote]Didn't Paltrow fuck Guy Ritchie, ending their friendship, Madonna's marriage, and inspiring Madonna's song "She's Not Me"?

No, honey. Don't quit your day job.

"If anyone wants to fuck Guy later he'll be in my room"

You're very welcome, Zemen-Wambuis (R171). And THANK YOU for explaining how those interviews are conducted. I did mention your explanation at R40 in my comment at R165. It's silly how some people are in such denial of all the PR tricks celebrities use and how much their favorite stars micromanage their image while pretending to be innocent and spontaneous. Delusional stans, naïveté, willful ignorance — take your pick

It's great that Sandra shut down Wendy Williams the hypocrite. Wendy makes money by gleefully gossiping on the personal problems of other famous people, then she got self-righteous about respecting her privacy when her own life was imploding.

Is Sandra still friends with Roseanne? I think she did one episode of the reboot before Roseanne got fired. Has she commented on that situation?

Love the circle jerk of idiots going on like this was some syndicated talk show promoting something and not an obscure lesbian podcast

Did GOOP really get it on with Guy? Details please.

Ingrid has a passing resemblance to Richard Benjamin.

[quote]Love the circle jerk of idiots going on like this was some syndicated talk show promoting something and not an obscure lesbian podcast

R178/R169/R166/R162/R145: Awww, your fee-fees are butthurt because nobody agrees with you and more than one person has revealed your ignorance. Is that why you give yourself WWs immediately after posting each comment? Are you so desperate for validation, real or imagined?

You really are upset. It's very transparent, so no one is fooled by your smug pose. But keep doubling down on your batshittery, Miss Speaker For The World. You're one of the unhinged trolls here on DL who can never mask their lunacy. It's like watching the antics of angry monkeys at the zoo.

Stay pressed!

[quote] Is Sandra still friends with Roseanne? I think she did one episode of the reboot before Roseanne got fired. Has she commented on that situation?

She mentioned Roseanne in her 2018 show at Joe's Pub and that she knew Roseanne had gone off the deep end long before her Twitter comment. Roseanne had called her that some dead rabbi was trying to get in touch with her. I could see Sandra still remaining friends with Roseanne since she gave her a real career boost, but just not advertising it.

"En route to the Cubby..."

"...Hole."

(start at 7:20)

R181 this only make sense to you queen

These women are in their sixties and yet they act like they're still in high school.

Who would find this in any way interesting? Oh, that's right: the kind of gay men who are still obsessed with high school.

She wears clothes well.

R185 your self-hating inner dialogue is concerning

Sandra has spoken to Roseanne since she went off the deep end

And... r188?

Most of this thread is loaded with self-stroking blathering by those who haven't even listened to the Sandra interview referenced

I wonder why she never got her nose fixed? Nothing heavy handed as she looks good with a strong nose, just refine it a tiny bit to take the potato look away. She's a handsome woman, and yes, wears clothes quite well.

Sandra's always pulled the hotties. Remember when she dated Patricia Velasquez? I believe Sandra was Patricia's first woman.

I think Sandra is like Barbra Streisand in that there is defiance in not wanting to refine their noses. More power to them, I say.

Hey, I'm just popping in to drop my favorite Sandra line:

"No one speaks of pavilions anymore, and that saddens me."

Amazing how much time has passed so quickly. The Letterman clip! Sandra and Madonna are so young and vital and here "cool" then. Now, both are old women.

So weird how Letterman was treating Madonna like royalty. No wonder Madonna is much a mess now that no one seems to care about her anymore.

You know how they say be kind on your way up or it’s going to hurt on your way down.

R184: Of course YOU, a mental midget, don't get it.

It's hilarious that you think you're some kind of DL spokesbitch. You're a pitiful party of one.

Is that lame retort all you could come up with after a day? Try harder, cunt. Oh, and don't forget to upvote your comments several more times. Trolls are predictable.

Sarah mooched fame off of Madonna, then Roseanne, hell even her name is an attempt to get people to see her when they misspell Sarah Bernhardt.

That truly saddens me, [R194].

Charmed, I'm sure, r200.

"Don't wear your seat belt where I come from people die they burn up when they wear their seat belt." Brenda, Gentile woman with no lips, [R201]

Have a nosh with Bonnie and Gerry!

Hilarious how this thread emerges and people ask about Ingrid, and sure enough, Ingrid is back in Madonna's orbit.

People change and friends come and go.

I would have been friends with Ray of Light and Evita Madonna, but as soon as Hard Candy Madonna surfaced, sayonara, lady!

Madonna is a mythomaniac

Just tonight I came across some interview that Isaac Mizrahi did where he was asked about this and he flat out said that Madonna slept with Ingrid and that this was the reason the friendship broke up, make of that what you will. He completely denied it was due to Sandra not being invited to be in the Sex book, like Ingrid claimed.

Madonna's alleged bisexuality was about poking her slightly dirty fingernails in the sleepy face of America. She's a professional provocateur.

I can’t look at Madonna anymore. She’s grotesque.

Sandra who?

[Quote] ‘I’m really your friend, I’m not just somebody that’s passing through.’” Sandra added, “And I guess for a while we had a real friendship, but it’s hard for somebody like her. She doesn’t really want somebody around who reflects too much of who she is. Therefore, her relationships just don’t last.”

I'm really your friend but I'll reflect on you to strangers?

This is right up there with Jennifer Aniston playing The Widow Pitt. Love Sandra, can’t stand Madge, but sweet bejeebuzz, let it go. You have a career and you’re funny and all, why constantly bring up the carcass that was your relationship with Madonna? Let it go, chile…

[Quote] sweet bejeebuzz, let it go.

Why let it go when you can use it to generate a headline? Sandra ain't slick.

Isn't it obvious Madonna uses people? Why does everything have to be overly analyzed about this insane woman?

Madonna is merely lucky to have become famous, right place, right time. Madonna found her audience and her fanbase bought whatever she was selling.

I've worked with tons of ambitious people like Madonna, some became famous, while others did not, but thy all have the same exact personalities. I can see them coming a mile away. All are users. Once the people these types are 'friends' with outlive their purpose, they move on to their next victim.

People like Madonna make sure to surround themselves with sycophants, they cannot stand people who outshine them.

Nah. Madonna would have become famous in any era. That doesn't mean she possesses exceptional raw talent. She had a lot of good taste, amongst plenty of bad. She worked harder than almost everyone, though strangely not on her singing. She understood how the media worked, where to push, where to acquiesce.

[Quote] People like Madonna make sure to surround themselves with sycophants, they cannot stand people who outshine them.

Then explain Madonna's acting career.

R216, her acting career comes down to delusion. I am sure she thought she was killing it on film.

Everyone knows Madonna is a control freak. And surprisingly that is the last thing a good actor should be, at least when it comes to the work. An actor should be able to lose themselves in a moment and let it take them anywhere in a scene. Madonna can never ever let go of herself in anyway shape or form. You can constantly see she is aware of exactly who she is and what she as Madonna is doing in the moment playing this other character. That is why she is so wooden and horrible.

They're both so full of bullshit. Two of the most high maintenance people alive.

R218, when Madonna acts you can literally see her watching herself and being delighted by what she sees. Her ego is next level.

Madonna has reputation for being a user She uses everyone, including her "friends" Once she has no more use for someone or she sees them as no longer beneficial to her, she dumps them. Conversely, most (if not all) of her friends are around because they think the association will benefit them. One day being friends with Madonna will will no longer be seen as a plus. If she lives long enough she's going to be one lonely old woman.

Why hasn't she used up Debi Mazar?

R221 That's why she has to collect orphans. Just like other noted nutcases Angelina and Mia. They're expecting the kids to be forever indebted to them and never leave unlike the men in their lives.

Josephine Baker?

Sandra was asked about Madonna by the interviewer she doesn’t talk about her the Sandyland show

Sandra is a bitter has-been bitch.

Is she? I don't get why people can't talk about their lives and the relationships and ups and downs they experienced. I don't think that necessarily makes them bitter. And most people are eventually "has beens." It's an empty insult.

It would be pretty sad if you were a celebrity and the most interesting thing about you was who you were once friends with twenty years ago.

Even Jilly Rizzo remained friends with Sinatra at least right to the end

#228 = Madonna

"Nah. Madonna would have become famous in any era."

Nah. She's a totally 80s creation. Pop music, attitude, in-your-face sexuality. She still is; she's been riding on the fumes of that superstardom ever since. She thinks it's still 1987, but of course it isn't.

Due to her mother's early death and her father's remarriage and disapproval of her, she has abandonment issues. She will abandon you first before you can abandon her.

And she must stay a young girl until she resolves her issues. That's where you get the surgery, Botox, Photoshop, filters, fillers and boyish boyfriend.

Jean Harlow had an in-your-face sexuality. That's not tied to any decade. And it's nonsense to suggest that Madonna's fame across a solid twenty years (1983 to at least 2003, if not 2005/6) involved "fumes."

[Quote] She will abandon you first before you can abandon her.

Her husbands might disagree.

Sandra can tell a reporter that she doesn’t want to talk about Madonna. It’s easy to shut them down.

Her friendship with Madonna is the most mainstream thing about her. She has to talk about it or she is too niche.

R231 you are right. Madonna is more than fumes all of those years. She is fumes now for sure. BUT she wouldn't have existed in previous decades. She exploded just as the industry was learning to master the Music Video and all of its possibilities. You have to SEE Madonna interpret her songs because her early songs, just on their own, are just so so. They only become larger in your mind when you put the video with it. Like a Virgin without the visual running through your head of her writhing on a gondola through Venice would be nothing. Material Girl without her re-interpretation of Marilyn Monroe wouldn't stand the test of time. Surprisingly these two songs are more popular than Lucky Star, which I think is a better song, but the video sucks, so it's one of her less played songs.

The absolutely sad thing is that with everything Madonna accomplished, the way she turned the music industry on it's head and the world in general during her heyday, she could most definitely be an influential iconic figure right now if she weren't so ridiculous.

I actually think Madonna's first album has aged the best out of all of them. Cut the two non-singles, maybe substitute some of the 12" versions (if they differ) and you have her most essential album. Let's not forget that "Holiday" didn't even get a music video. And Madonna's first music video was for a song that wasn't a hit. I don't agree that people needed to see her for her to make an impression.

"Like a Virgin" and "Material Girl" have lyrics that grabbed attention. That may seem hard to understand, now. Madonna understood the zeitgeist. "Like a Virgin" does it better than "Sugar Walls."

Like a Virgin was popular for reasons other than its actual overall sound. The use of the word Virgin in popular culture was controversial. And the fact that it sounds very similar to Michael Jackson's extremely popular Billy Jean didn't hurt either. Madonna understood the power of controversy in the zeitgeist. Her career is based on controversy. And all of her friends, including Sandra, had to add to the controversy. But the songs themselves, especially her early music, just isn't that good overall. They are near and dear, but production wise, and lasting power on their own, not so much. Listen to the construction of Billy Jean, two years older than Like a Virgin - no comparison. I don't think any Madonna song even equals this - precision, sound, etc, 40 years old this year.

Madonna's Like a Virgin, shot in Venice. The beat is bassline is basically Billie Jean.

Basically Madonna's early music was "reductive" as she likes to say. On its own without the visual, it's catchy but not long lasting. It's only when you SEE Madonna perform her music, especially at the exact time period that her videos were released, that you can understand and appreciate the legend she became. And this would have really only happened in the early 80s for her, no other period.

Music videos are to Madonna what social media is to the Kardashians.

I think Sandra telegraphs exactly what happened between her and Madonna when she says Madonna told her "I can do what I want, we're not in high school." I assume this is Madonna justifying having sex with Ingred. I imagine they tried to remain friends after that. But Madonna was over it.

And yet, when she made the album with Timbaland, they namechecked her first album. The minimal sort of funk sound was influential. I think it has aged better than Nile Rodgers work on the Like a Virgin album.

If you look closely at R235's vid, the dancer on the left side of the screen is none other than her future biographer.

OT, but upthread, Gwyneth Paltrow was mentioned as a former "friend" of Madonna's. I think, in fact, they were close.

Gossip had it that their friendship ended because Paltrow either came-on to Guy Richie, or Guy Richie came-on to Paltrow.

Either way, I believe it.

Salad days.

What does Sandy’s daughter look like?

Basically Sandra is calling Madonna a phony.

[quote]What does Sandy’s daughter look like?

Like this:

R243, agreed. Madonna's debut holds up much better than Like a Virgin. There are only two great songs (Like a Virgin, Material Girl) and one good song (Dress You Up) on Like a Virgin.

I loved Sandra so much when she'd be on LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN in the 80s and early 90s, but her singing is truly, truly atrocious.

There’s a really quick shot of Sandra in Madonna’s “Deeper and Deeper” video, maybe that’s the last time they got along.

I'm still interested in Sandra's take on Madonna. IMO, it's fascinating to find out what happens to a regular neighborhood (Michigan) girl with a huge narcissistic streak who then strikes gold. Interesting to find out how people handle the fame and money and the loss of youthful good looks.

Madonna is still alive, so, whatever Sandra says, she's aware that Madonna can refute, sue Sandra for defamation, etc.

It's not like talking about Michael Jackson or someone else famous who died. Tell your stories about Madonna now. It's more believable.

Madonna had a pulse on the next big thing in the 80s-late 90s and maybe into the early 2000s, but lost her way when she got too old for the younger generation to be fans and then it was just nostalgia-loving older fans following her. You do age out of dance music eventually because no one wants to see 60 year olds singing dance tracks on stage.

I definitely think she surrounded herself with “yes” people too much due to her narcissism. Model Jenny Shimizu said she used to fly out to wherever Madonna was in the early/mid 90s (at Madonna’s beck and call) to be Madonna’s booty call and then Madonna discarded her after awhile. Sounds consistent with Sandra’s opinions.

[quote]I loved Sandra so much when she'd be on LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN in the 80s and early 90s, but her singing is truly, truly atrocious.

Agreed, and I cannot work out if she is serious with it or not. Sometimes it really does seem like she would've loved to have been a singer above everything else. It sure seems like she takes it seriously. I agree with the poster though who said she does work a lot on her arrangements and does put the effort in. And there are a couple of songs I've heard where she sings within her range and they work better. But most of the time I'm just perplexed. Maybe her bad singing IS the joke, but she takes it so seriously at the same time.

[quote]There’s a really quick shot of Sandra in Madonna’s “Deeper and Deeper” video, maybe that’s the last time they got along.

Really? Where is that? I've never noticed that before. I thought their falling out was at the very beginning of 1992?

[quote]Madonna is still alive, so, whatever Sandra says, she's aware that Madonna can refute, sue Sandra for defamation, etc.

I was listening to a gossipy podcast last night (a bit too gossipy for my tastes and not enough pop/culture history) and the hosts were talking about Sandra whom they both loved. One was telling the story of a friend who had been in a restaurant eating when Sandra was there and then Madonna came to the same restaurant and was seated on the other side of the room. This was when Lourdes was young. As the story goes, the two of them apparently acknowledged each other, but it was Sandra who approached Madonna at the end of dinner to say hi, and was apparently reasonably friendly, while Madonna seemed more put out by it. The focus of their conversation was pretty much entirely on Lourdes (Sandra apparently singing a snipped of "I Got You Babe" to the girl). It sounded like a situation where Sandra is the kind of person who still keeps a level of manners or etiquette but that Madonna was just over it completely.

^ugh, "snippeT"

It's manners to sing a song to a child you've never met, to whom you have no significant relationship?

I think it could be considered manners to try and be polite and acknowledge to someone, you knew well for a time and you've had a falling out with, yes. I don't think she'd never met the child either. She spoke in her I'm Still Here show about how she had met Lourdes several times at Kabbalah, so...

Sandra was at ALT's memorial service kiss kissing with Naomi.

R47 "Sandra suffered the same fate as Janeane Garofalo and Margaret Cho and Kathy Griffin. She moved away from her brand. Garofalo and Cho just became miserable political whiners"

I don't know about the politics, but Garofalo was LAZY. I saw her at the Tower in Philly. She read her act from notecards. At one point, a long boring joke about "Applebees" inexplicably became "TGIFridays". At the punchline, she realized it and said something like "this would have been funny if I kept the restaurant name the same".

Then her notecards got out of order.

Maybe her politics were stupid. But her performance SUCKED.

I think Janeane was a drunk for awhile, R260. That might explain it.

Years ago, on Howard Stern, Sandra mentioned running into Madonna at a Kabblah dinner. She claimed she approached Madonna and said "Look, so much has been said, it's a very long time ago now, I think we can put it all past us, and when we see each other out, it can just be nice and friendy."

Madonna, who didn't bother to remove her sunglasses, kinda scrunched up her face, and said it a low, vocal fry way, "I'd like that." And Sandra said that was it. They didn't speak for the rest of the night.

Well you ruined my fucking kabbalah dinner, so what was I supposed to say?

Also, you looked fat.

Comedians who are the very early part of putting a show together often work from cards.

*who are at

Garofolo was probably 20 years past the time when she started her standup career; thus, she was at the Tower instead of the Laff House.

R260, I think that was Garafalo's schtick. In every stand-up performance I have seen of hers, she was always rifling through her notebook to remind herself what to talk about next.

R255 Here’s a screen grab from the quick appearance in “Deeper and Deeper”. The clip is two seconds at the most and appears at the 2:33 mark in the official video on YouTube.

Sandra also, strangely, was in the official remix video for "Secret", which was years after the falling out. She's not in the video foir the regular version but when VH1 used to show the remix video, there she was in a quick shot, laughing into the camera.

I've often wondered if they're still friends and the bad mouthing about their supposed fallout or whatever keeps reporters and the like from asking Sandy anything about Madonna now.

Here. The 35-second mark.

R268 and R270, although similar in appearance, neither of those women are actually Sandra Bernhard. Her features are even more dramatic… especially compared to the first woman… Sandra’s lips are way bigger and her nose is a lot larger.

For the woman in SECRET, I think that may have been Madonna purposely having a personal joke by casting someone who was a look alike, but not really Sandra.

To the losers go the hang-ups, to the victors go the hangers-on.

-- Phil Ochs

I knew Sandra Bernhard from the early 1970s. There was a smallish club on the Sunset Strip Called Rodneys (Bingenheimers) English disco. I was a 17 yr. old glitter-boy with a fake id. Sandra was a manicurist from the S.F. Valley. Rodney's was charmingly referred to as a bisexual club. I knew Sandra as a hilarious fag-hag, not a lezbo. Years later I had a saxaphone-playing boyfriend named Spyder Middleman who accompanied Sandra as part of her one-woman show. By then she was an ugly-glamorous lezbo. Debi Mazar was a good friend of my best pal Lance Loud. Lance's mother Pat gave one of her famous dinner parties. Debi showed up with Madonna and I showed up with Spyder, Katy Segal(Spyder's other "girlfriend'), and Sandra. Debi, Sandra, and Madonna were at the height of their celebrity. All three of them seemed wary of each other and not what I would call friends at all.

R274 How did Katy Sagal end up there? Tell us more about her. What year was this and did Katy get along with Madonna?

Spyder *Mittleman*

Debi is living her best life with her husband in Tuscany now and her two beautiful daughters. If the looks of your progeny are what we were to judge success on, then she is truly the victor. And not to mention her hot husband.

R275 Katy Sagal was/is the daughter of director Boris Sagal so she was always "Hollywood"

R268 and R270, thanks so much for sharing those. I have to agree with R271 in that I don't think either of those women are Sandra, but I can see what you mean. The woman in the Deeper and Deeper video doesn't necessarily look much like Sandra in the still, but in the video as she smiles, she definitely has a similar look to her mouth. I think the woman in Secret might be latina. Very interesting though, and it sent me down the path trying to work out exactly when they had their falling out. Obviously Christopher's book talks about Sandra bringing Ingrid to Madonna's New Year's Party for 1992. On 7 January 1992 Sandra appears on David Letterman and mentions the new year started off with a few things, including "betrayal", but she doesn't expand on it and that could've referenced anything. She is her usual wound up self on that showing. But then on August 17 of that year she appears again and is much more subdued and looks kinda sad behind the eyes. I assume between those two appearances something happened? The Deeper and Deeper video was filmed in November of that year, so I think Sandra was definitely out by then.

When she dies will her obituary include the line "In the early 90s she was friends with Madonna, something she would be asked about for the rest of her life".

I hate when that happens.

[Quote] I think the woman in Secret might be latina.

And a T hooker.

Dining out on a falling out for 30 years.

Debi daughters are beautiful

Debi Mazar, with perhaps less money than Bernhard has by far the best life of these three women.

She grew into her looks, from a somewhat exotic/specific/retro sort of beauty to a sort of easy confident beauty that works whether glamourous or can't-be-bothered. She lives in beautiful surroundings in Italy where her money goes far and life is not so much about grasping always for some slightly out of reach rung on a ladder. She has a lovely family and seems happy and grounded. She has interests outside her own career. I don't get the impression that she's full of regrets and long lists of things she wants to do or prove. She's had an interesting career, an interesting life, and all the more now that she doesn't have to scramble for roles and keeping her name in the news. She has the look of someone who is happy and knows she's lucky.

Debi also has great Instagram she's always showing photos from the 80's and early 90's

A look back:

[Quote] She's had an interesting career

Tripe like "Younger" or "Beethoven's 2nd" does not constitute an interesting career.

Sandra reminds me of Gia in the pic at r288. Obviously, she had a charactery face, but the lez energy.

r286, I mean.

Mazar had a small role in The Insider.

[quote]Tripe like "Younger" or "Beethoven's 2nd" does not constitute an interesting career.

Those two are, to be kind, not so interesting, R287. By an interesting career I meant more than a filmography. She's made a film and TV career of mostly small and curious roles, sometimes memorable beyond their size. She's managed to maintain a fairly long presence in film and TV, and in some titles and for excellent directors; yet she's had a life apart from auditions, filming, press tours, repeat. Thats what strikes me as interesting: that she has dipped in and out of acting work comfortably. She developed a cooking/lifestyle show or two with her husband in Italy. She appears in European celebrity news often enough, usually connected to food or some some subject of interest to her. She has net worth that seems enough to keep her in a certain style and - more important - relaxed and happy.

For me that's a more interesting career that allows for a personal life beyond always shouldering in on the next work project and aiming in some obvious trajectory.

By a measure of financial success, she's nothing compared to one of the other two women in the thread, and the celebrity net worth rankings put her at about half or so the worth of Bernstein, but the least an of them financially has the best life from my view, and a sustained but low-key career.

[Quote] She appears in European celebrity news often enough,

I applaud your commitment to your narrative but what about this is interesting?

[Quote] For me that's a more interesting career that allows for a personal life beyond always shouldering in on the next work project and aiming in some obvious trajectory.

This doesn't sound interesting. It sounds like her career has funded her life, like most people.

287, 292, and 293 is a tiresome whore. I wish I could punch you threw the screen, and I am a non-violent person. But I have a such a visceral reaction to people who all they do is shit on other people's comments while adding nothing of value. "It's not interesting to me..." Well babe, you're not interesting, so I am not surprised.

I agree 100% with what r291 was trying to express before the above mentioned twat chimed. Debi has a level of celebrity that when she is out in public people recognize her, respectfully admire her, smile, wave, but generally leave her alone. She is a very lucky woman to have survived this long in such a vicious industry and to be on this side of it as well adjusted as she has, with a beautiful family and a head on her shoulders. That she didn't get swept up in the celebrity that surrounded her. THAT alone makes her interesting R287.

I agree with those above. Debi has always seemed to be able to keep down to earth, have the right amount of success to make her life enjoyable, and has come out of that environment seemingly in a better place than nearly any of the other people she was around.

I don’t know how well off Sandra is. She’s been talking about how dilapidated her kitchen has been for years (she’s finally having it done). She even said she was getting a couch reupholstered but the first guy wanted $5k so she had to find someone else.

She comes off like someone who really needs to keep working.

Debi seems to have a fun life does not mean Debi has an interesting career.

To the posters above asking how Sandra Bernhard can have money issues…um…hello?

How much money do you think a performer makes for performing limited runs at Joe’s Pub?!?

She apparently didn't make much on Roseanne. Several guest stars said the show paid peanuts.

It's hard to believe that Ingrid Caesares is bi and has a son.

Why? Bi doesn't mean equally attracted.

A few years ago, Sandra told Howard Stern that she’d made a tidy sum investing in real estate.

Ingrid and Guy used to stay at the Royalton all the time for awhile. What I remember most is that Ingrid had this very visible black mole/birthmark right on the tip of her nose. It doesn't show up very well in pictures, but it was totally there in person. It was the first thing one noticed about her. It was almost mesmerizing- you couldn't stare at anything else when you were in front of her. She also came across as quite hard looking in person, not waifish at all.

I dont agree that Sandra's been dining out on Madonna for 30 years. I think she'd be thrilled never to be asked about her again.

I don't think Sandra has money problems, she is probably just cheap and watches what she spends. My husband got the biggest kick when he found out that Sandra did the exact same thing as him at Whole Foods. She admitted it on a Watch What Happens Live once. Sandra actually used to shop at our Whole Foods in Chelsea and 7th Ave. But they would both grind their own coffee beans there when you could and then use the code for the cheapest French Roast when they weighed in for the price. I am sure they aren't the only ones. But it was so funny hearing her admit to doing the same thing.

[quote]Debi seems to have a fun life does not mean Debi has an interesting career.

R297 you're missing the point. Debi's career is interesting because of its longevity for someone who has never been a major star, but has remained acting and relevant enough to get work for 33 years. I am sure she got a good little livable wage from her stint on ENTOURAGE, including the movie. And she seems to have a ton of friends behind the scenes in the industry who have known her for years and have nothing but nice things to say about her. It's also interesting she always came across as some Italian chick from Queens but she's actually Eastern European.

I saw some clips from Sandra After Dark last night. Never seen this before. Debi Mazar turns up there, she really does just seem like the kind of fun person you'd like to know. Steve Antin is there too and he was so gorgeous. What the hell happened there, I don't know.

Incidentally, in the Sandra concert "I'm Still Here... Damn It!" there's a bit where she calls her makeup man to the stage and he bears a bit of a resemblance to the original Antin too.

The Steve Antin who is the brother of Jonathan Antin and Robin Antin? What was in that family's water growing up?

In one of her shows Sandra mentions that Brenda Antin made her a $4000 POS fainting couch that she hated. Then she said the Antins were at it again but she wasn't going to backtrack for those not in the know. I was not, so I don't know what she was talking about unless they were all grifters.

R307, I thought her makeup guy looked like Steven Antin too!

[quote] I don't think Sandra has money problems, she is probably just cheap and watches what she spends.

Like any good Jew would do.

When I saw Debi’s cooking show a few years ago with her husband, she came off as really bossy towards him.

I play Iman is at parties.

Is this Ingrid lady a drug dealer? How else does she have such constant contact with people like Sandra- then Madonna- then Nicole Richie- A Rod???? How exactly did Sandra meet her? (backstage as in getting supplied?)

Ingrid Casares grew up in tony Coral Gables, went to high school with Gloria Estefan's younger sister Becky Fajardo, and was co-owner of Miami nightclub, Liquid, with business partner, mafioso snitch and convicted felon Chris Paciello.