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I left the United States and Moved to Italy. After 2020, I had had enough.

Feel free to ask me any questions. I have many thoughts about my decision - a lot of which I am still processing.

by Anonymousreply 370September 6, 2023 3:14 PM

What part of Italy? Please share your top three reasons for your decision.

by Anonymousreply 1December 10, 2021 1:38 PM

What do you do for a living and how did they let you in? Do you speak Italian? Have an Italian husbear?

by Anonymousreply 2December 10, 2021 1:40 PM

Enough? Of what? Your exasperation sounds so fraught I’m sure I’m not interested other than to see how you bring this back to a love of the Lega Nord.

by Anonymousreply 3December 10, 2021 1:44 PM

Dove vivi?

by Anonymousreply 4December 10, 2021 2:52 PM

I am tentatively planning a trip next year to Italy to celebrate my 60th birthday. I'm just not sure now with the requirement for a negative test. I'd need to be able to find somewhere to do that 24 hours before my return. I am double-vaxxed and have a booster appointment on the 16th.

Any great places I should look into visiting? As a single person, I'm afraid I will need use a travel agent that books tours which means visiting only the tourist traps.

by Anonymousreply 5December 10, 2021 3:01 PM

[quote] I am double-vaxxed and have a booster appointment on the 16th.

^ good gay!🇺🇸

by Anonymousreply 6December 10, 2021 3:04 PM

OP, why did you move there in the first place?

by Anonymousreply 7December 10, 2021 3:06 PM

Stay there, you traitorous CUNT!!!

We don't want you back.

by Anonymousreply 8December 10, 2021 4:31 PM

Have you solved the strain/drain pasta dilemma and sauce/gravy issue?

by Anonymousreply 9December 10, 2021 4:40 PM

Op = Joe Giudice

by Anonymousreply 10December 10, 2021 4:41 PM

I sold my place in the city and moved to my country house in the woods where I’m just finishing a large addition. No neighbors, and I see who I want when I want. Shut off all MSM except for business news and some entertainment. We’re in the middle of a global bout of intentional stupidity and contrariness that has no borders. Leaving a country doesn’t really solve the problem.

I’m fortunate enough to have the means to live as I choose, and I really feel for people who are subjected to the current age of idiocy on a daily basis.

by Anonymousreply 11December 10, 2021 4:44 PM

Is India and Indonesia next? I, I, I,

by Anonymousreply 12December 10, 2021 4:44 PM

Don't come back op.

We don't want your cunt face back in our country.

by Anonymousreply 13December 10, 2021 4:47 PM

Don't come back op.

We don't want your cunt face back in our country.

by Anonymousreply 14December 10, 2021 4:48 PM

Isn't Italy flooding all the time now?

by Anonymousreply 15December 10, 2021 4:48 PM

I worked at the US Embassy in Rome for six months in 1980. Before that, I'd never been out of the US. I remember being frustrated by how inefficient everything was. I'm sure it's improved in the past 20 years, but I wonder. I have a cousin who's lived there for a long time -- he's married to an Italian but didn't even speak the language when he moved there. He loves it. I think I'm too spoiled and couldn't adjust.

by Anonymousreply 16December 10, 2021 4:51 PM

Do you miss eating American cuisine?

by Anonymousreply 17December 10, 2021 5:07 PM

OP, where in Italy? What prompted your return? Where are you now?

by Anonymousreply 18December 10, 2021 5:07 PM

[quote]'m sure it's improved in the past 20 years

I meant FORTY years!

by Anonymousreply 19December 10, 2021 5:10 PM

How are you enjoying the foreskins?

by Anonymousreply 20December 10, 2021 5:10 PM

By Italy, OP means the Olive Garden.

by Anonymousreply 21December 10, 2021 5:13 PM

I’m sure you’ve learned by now, but if you want to mail anything outside Italy it is always best to use the post drops in Vatican City.

by Anonymousreply 22December 10, 2021 5:15 PM

[quote]Isn't Italy flooding all the time now?

Yes, the whole country's under water.

by Anonymousreply 23December 10, 2021 5:23 PM

Why would you move to Italy? It's very homophobic. I'd choose Spain instead. I can't stand gays who glorify homophobic destinations like Italy and Dubai.

by Anonymousreply 24December 10, 2021 5:35 PM

Don't talk to op.

He's not American.

by Anonymousreply 25December 10, 2021 5:36 PM

"Feel free to ask me any questions."

And then he left the thread.

by Anonymousreply 26December 10, 2021 5:50 PM

Hey R26. Sorry about that. For some reason my membership wasn't registering and I couldn't REPLY to any thread. I am back now though. All seems to have been worked out. Not sure if anyone else experienced this blackout.

by Anonymousreply 27December 12, 2021 9:40 AM

R1, I decided to move to Rome. I was coming from NYC and that just seemed to be a natural fit. I really like it here. It's a big beautiful, gritty city.

1. I needed a new challenge in my life. I had been doing the same thing for years and although I was good at it and making money, I didn't feel like I was growing or excited about anything in my future - just more of the same. And I had vacationed to Italy and really wanted to end up there at some point. It feels very American here as far as the people and their attitude toward life. They like Americans here as well. They like culture. It sort of reminds of the States as I remember them being as a kid in the 80s before the US became the dark weird place it is now.

2. Going back to #1. Obviously the US has always had its issues, dark times. It just feels now very different that it did before. Everything is politicized and the country feels extremely divided. And on top of that people seem to be 100% OK with that. There is absolutely no desire to find a middle ground to work through differences. People's personalities there are defined by their beliefs, so they are not giving that up anytime soon. And after 2020, being in quarantine in NYC, after the George Floyd riots in NYC, and watching everything go down across the country - the place felt kind of hopeless for now and I was done with it.

3. It's always been a dream of mine to speak a foreign language. To live in another culture, speaking the language fluently. I studied French for many years. But after I started traveling to Italy, I started liking Italian more. It's easier to speak and easier to learn because the Italians fully encourage you to fuck up, make mistakes, learn and grow. They are actually bewildered by the fact that anyone would want to learn Italian, since like two countries speak it. So they are excited to help - especially an American.

by Anonymousreply 28December 12, 2021 9:49 AM

Do you have a job in Rome or basically retired?

by Anonymousreply 29December 12, 2021 9:53 AM

R2. I got a study visa through a language school that is good for 15 months. Once you move here though with your VISA, you have to get a permesso di sorggiorno that actually allows you to stay in the country. That is what you renew from year to year. That's like a five month process at this point and I just got mine recently after having moved here in June.

I left my job in NYC. I took advantage of the Covid 19 401k withdrawal without penalties, only taxes. I took out the maximum you could figuring this would probably be the only time I could touch that money before retirement in this way. That is what I am living off of now until I figure out what I would like to do here. The cost of living is much less here overall. People don't make a ton of money. So it's not like you really have to make a killing to live a normal life here.

by Anonymousreply 30December 12, 2021 9:55 AM

r4. Abito a Esquilino vicino at Piazza Vittorio Emanuele, in Centro Storico. Oddly enough when I was in NYC, Chelsea, Willem Dafoe was a neighbor of mine in the Chelsea, Village area. I move to room and find out he lives down the block from me here too.

by Anonymousreply 31December 12, 2021 9:57 AM

R31 That is a trip. I love that guy. Leave him a note that you are living by him, and invite him out for coffee or lunch or whatever is the least stalkerish.

by Anonymousreply 32December 12, 2021 10:06 AM

Sounds really awesome r28. Wish I had the courage to just up and move to a new country.

by Anonymousreply 33December 12, 2021 10:17 AM

R5, it all comes down to the time of year that you travel to Italy. In the summer time most people head south. When they say things shut down for the summer, they mean it. Even a big city like Rome, by the time august comes around barely anything is open and operable. An entire month wandering around a ghost town. As far as testing goes, there are covid testing places pretty much at most farmacias. They cost, but the results last for 48 hours. With the Super Greenpass now, I am not sure if those are still valid, but they have to be for tourist who can't get Greenpasses. I can't even get a booster here. I have to wait until my next trip back to the states, which fortunately is next week for Christmas.

I am biased, I would say go to Rome. I know I haven't been here that long, but so far this place has not ceased to amazing me with the hundreds of very cool ancient and renaissance things you just stumble across - most of them for free to check out. I would get an airbnb, and live like a local. The thing I wouldn't suggest is trying to plan too much or too many places to visit. All you remember is packing and unpacking and everything will blend into the next.

by Anonymousreply 34December 12, 2021 10:31 AM

How's the dick?

by Anonymousreply 35December 12, 2021 10:34 AM

R9 is referring to very Italian American things that do not even exist here. There is no fettuccine Alfredo, veal parmigiana, spaghetti and meatballs in Italian cuisine. Each region is sort of known for their particular cuisine with pastas and fish being more southern and the north more miale, beef, risotto and polenta. Rome is central/South. If you come here the four pasta dishes are - Carbonara, Cacio e Pepe, Amatriciana and La Gricia.

by Anonymousreply 36December 12, 2021 10:35 AM

r11 that is a very American Response. Yes every country is dealing with the fallout and turmoil of Covid. But leaving America DEFINITELY was a major step in leaving the specific kind of politicized stupidity that's going on there behind. Where in the world does a pandemic lead to government leaders posting christmas with their families holding AR15 rifles? And besides it's freeing living in another country. Their political problems are not MY problems. In America there is this weight of the responsibility of having to right all the wrongs.

by Anonymousreply 37December 12, 2021 10:38 AM

R13 / 14 proves my point exactly. But sweetie it's my country too. I will come and go as I please.

by Anonymousreply 38December 12, 2021 10:38 AM

r15 There haven't been any floods here in Rome, no. Although Rome does get more rain on average than London in a given year surprisingly. There is the Aqua Alta in Venice however where the city will flood. But the city is built on water, so although it is gradually getting worse, it's nothing new to them.

by Anonymousreply 39December 12, 2021 10:40 AM

tell us your profession and age.

by Anonymousreply 40December 12, 2021 10:43 AM

OP, you say you moved to Rome after the George Floyd protests in NYC, but how long have you been there?

You describe a mix of motives: of wanting to leave the U.S. and of wanting to live in Italy. Do you agree that it's the second part that's key? I see lots of people who want to move to escape a political climate in the U.S., or people who want to move to enjoy some image of inexpensive luxury in their retirement -- they figure out the place not by any passion but by Excel spreadsheets-driven decisions. I always tell people don't move to a place for practical reasons, or because one place is not the place where they last lived, move only because you want to love a new place

I moved from the U.S. a year before COVID, for all the best reasons and the good timing of getting out was a coincidence, a bonus not the purpose. What few and fleeting grumblings I've had have all been frustration at COVID and not my new home, but the timing for acclimation and starting to feel like you really belong (not just want to be in) a new place have been more hampered than accelerated by COVID.

Have you had the turning point yet where it clicks, and you know without doubt that you did exactly the right thing?

by Anonymousreply 41December 12, 2021 10:44 AM

r16 Compared to the United States, yes everything here is pretty inefficient. They do not work like Americans, or get things done like Americans. There is no multi-tasking, to-do lists. Italians know this. The interesting thing being here is that you learn more about your own country. The Italians comment on how Americans have mastered Management, that we manage things in general better. So that is one reason I'm hopeful that finding a job here, working here will be easier. If you are raised in America, with a strong American worth ethic that is about getting shit done, you will pretty much thrive here. People don't want to work that hard, so you'll be a standout. And again, you don't have to kill it here, there is no race to the end, winner take all, no rest for the weary culture here. There is no Seize the Day, Make the Most of It, Live like it's Your last attitude here. Which is refreshing. The world will not end if YOU don't get absolutely everything done. There is no falling behind. And guess what - Life Goes on, pretty much the same as it would if you had killed yourself trying to make it happen.

by Anonymousreply 42December 12, 2021 10:47 AM

r17. You do miss certain things about American food for sure. My husband actually cooks more American food here than we really did in America. You just have to work a little harder to find things. BUT the one thing I do sooo love is that the products, the ingredients are so much better. GMO, artificial shit are pretty much banned here. There are very specific protocols to keeping foods clean and pure. Italians take their food very seriously. Stuff just TASTES better. I never drank Coke before in the states. It tastes so GOOD outside of the states. Potato chips, even dumb peanuts actually have flavor. Even McDonalds you can taste meat, the fries taste like potatoes. It's really interesting how all of these companies can manage preparing decent food everywhere else but serve Shit in America.

I MISS Coffee, American Coffee - not caffe Americano either. I miss straight up American coffee. I can find it here, I Just haven't gotten a machine yet.

You miss stupid shit that would never even cross your mind that you couldn't find. I MISS a sponge mop for cleaning. They have these weird things that just dirt around. I miss cleaning wipes which they don't have. The use a ton of plastic bottles. I've never seen country in this day and age use so much plastic.

by Anonymousreply 43December 12, 2021 10:55 AM

The plot thickens. Is your husband gainfully employed and the real bread winner?

by Anonymousreply 44December 12, 2021 10:58 AM

r20, OMG, so funny you say that. Everyone is uncut here. It's so weird how different the world of cut vs uncut is. The boys, the men are SO attractive here. I know it sounds cliche. But there are so many different types. The young men all have big floppy hair, bushy brows, big eyes. The men are attractive, masculine, dressed nicely. Of course not everyone is this way. But I would definitely a bigger portion here are, more so than anywhere else.

The fascinating this is that Male Beauty seems to be the standard of beauty here. Men love admiring each other here. Gay, str8, doesn't matter. People admire a good looking man here. I've come to learn that Italy is a place where the Women are Stronger than the Men and the Men are Prettier than the Woman. Woman here seemed to be prized for their strength and their point of view and what they have to say. All the major news programs I see are lead by woman here. There is no Vocal Fry in the younger girls. Some of the singers sound like straight up dudes.

And another thing I love is that Youth is not worshipped here. People in their 40s, 50s, 60s seem to be the leaders in the culture that the younger women and men look up to, want to be. Not everyone is trying to be 27 years old. It's kind of cute and sexy watching the younger men "Play act" at being men, you can see them trying it on for size with their girlfriends. It's all about becoming a husband and father. I am in my mid 40s and see the dudes here in their 50s, 60s and even feel like, I can't wait to be that.

by Anonymousreply 45December 12, 2021 11:04 AM

And r24 is a perfect example of why I was happy to leave the States. "I can't stand..." Really? You literally can't stand people like me? Ok.

That is the exact bombastic and juvenile discourse I do not miss at all. You can easily say what you want to say without having to be rude or put someone else down. But that is de rigueur in the United States now. You can't say something without feeling the need to blow someone's head off.

Anyway, I have't found Italy to be homophobic at all. Interestingly enough, I have found them to be pretty open to us. Italy, and especially Rome, is so far behind the world when it comes to gay rights, and they know it. So I think they are kind of fascinated by these two proudly out Gay Americans living their life in the open, and not trying to hide it. It takes American balls, and that's what they love here, American Balls. Italians like to consider themselves American in a lot of ways. So people are pretty cool with us. I always get a kick out of the workman who come to our place to do stuff. When we open the door I am sure they are like what?!? It's new to them, but once they see your a fucking decent person and treat them the same, like with anything else, they are actually fine with it, and seem to be fascinated - like watching a dog walk on it's hind legs.

One quick story is when I was getting my permesso, you have to go to this huge bureaucratic building to get it taken care of. I was finished quicker than my husband. I was standing outside waiting for him and this Polizia asked me if I was finished. I said yes, I am just waiting for my husband "Mio marito" inside. He seeing that I was American and thinking that I got the language wrong said, you are waiting for your " tua Moglia" wife. And I said, no, "mio marito." He got so red and flustered and was apologizing up and down. It was no big deal. But it was just funny when he realized I wasn't wrong, but that he was.

by Anonymousreply 46December 12, 2021 11:16 AM

r40 and r41

I am 46, I worked in high end luxury retail. My husband worked in real estate. I have been here for six months now. It took a good three months for the entire Visa process and waiting. I spent that last year there, once I got back to work after covid, saving money on TOP of what I took out already. I am not sure what I will do here yet. I am figuring it out now.

And yes, R41 Before making such a huge move I went through all of that in my head. I made sure I wasn't just leaving because I was over NY, but that I actually wanted to be in Italy. Looking back on my life during this time, I remembered dreams of who I wanted to be, things I wanted to experience, things that were once important to me that I had forgotten. Italy is a beautiful country with so much to offer. The people are my kind of people.

I would say that I am at that point where I am just starting to live my life here, and NOT just for the purpose of showing people back in the states what I am doing via Instagram. Up to a certain point you still feel like shouting from the rooftops - LOOK AT THIS COOL THING I DID WITH MY LIFE! And you find yourself keeping people updated with pics and stories. BUT now I realize for me to find my life here, my friendships I have to actually have both my feet firmly planted here and not keep trying to maintain relationships with the life I had back in the States. The people who transcend the distance in my life will remain. The people who don't will fall away. And I am fine with that, because I am very much interested in seeing who I become here - how Italy will inform the person I become in the next stage of my life.

I am going back home for the first time for Christmas. So r41 that will really be true test as to where my mindset is. There are so many things here that feel like home already, that feel cozy, that I think I will miss when I return to the states. I think I will be eager to get back to them. And it will be very odd I think, for the first time leaving what was my home to get on a plane to Go Home, to a different country.

by Anonymousreply 47December 12, 2021 11:33 AM

Odd that you say that r44. I mean I guess there is NO way that I could do this on my own. But I was the breadwinner of the house back in NYC, believe it or not, for YEARS. That place will ground you down to a nub. I was ground down to a nub. I was tired of feeling that way, and not getting anything in return except more of the same.

But we both worked and saved for the last year to make this happen. But the bulk of it was what I took out of MY 401k.

by Anonymousreply 48December 12, 2021 11:36 AM

How is the luxury retail trade doing in Rome?

by Anonymousreply 49December 12, 2021 11:39 AM

But you also proved the point r46. It's a society where gay people still tend to hide and keep a low profile so a out and proud gay couple like yourself is unsual.

Thats pretty a pretty homophobic and backwards society for a western country.

by Anonymousreply 50December 12, 2021 11:47 AM

R49, I am not even sure I am going to continue doing that now. I am not working at the moment. We are both going to school five days a week, two hours a day, learning Italian.

I reached a point in my life where I no longer felt the need to bend the world. I just want to enjoy my life and the people in it. That is enough for me. I feel fortunate in the fact that I realized this early on enough where I still have time to create a whole new life for my husband and myself. I feel confident enough in my abilities that I will figure something out here for myself. It IS very true what they say, "If you can make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere." And I had a good life in NYC for 25 years. I am sure I can take what I've learned there and transfer it here in some capacity.

by Anonymousreply 51December 12, 2021 11:51 AM

[QUOTE] I worked at the US Embassy in Rome for six months in 1980.

Oh Mary! How old are you?!

by Anonymousreply 52December 12, 2021 11:53 AM

[QUOTE] And I had a good life in NYC for 25 years. I am sure I can take what I've learned there and transfer it here in some capacity.

Oh gag! Is there Anyone on this forum who does not or did not live in NYC at some time?

by Anonymousreply 53December 12, 2021 11:55 AM

r50 Homophobic means there is a resistance to it in a culture. I am not saying it doesn't exist. Homophobia exists everywhere. I am just saying I haven't experienced any pushback from anyone that I have come across because I am gay. And it's actually quite the opposite, there is a curiosity about it and people seem to give us our props for NOT hiding. And there are more and more openly gay younger couples here. That IS something I have noticed different even in the last three years. Everywhere we go there are other gay couples. No they aren't making out at the table. But we never did that in NYC either.

by Anonymousreply 54December 12, 2021 11:55 AM

Only you r53

by Anonymousreply 55December 12, 2021 11:56 AM

[quote]I MISS Coffee, American Coffee

OP=

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 56December 12, 2021 11:57 AM

Battistoni is one of my favorite tailors in Europe and no, I'm not Dickie Greenleaf.

You seem to have the required optimism to be a successful expat. People will say nothing is possible but you just have to make it possible. Good luck!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 57December 12, 2021 11:59 AM

Dubai is fine R24. You'll be undressed by kings, and you'll see some things that a gayling ain't supposed to see. But if you can handle that its all gravy.

by Anonymousreply 58December 12, 2021 12:01 PM

That’s a spicy meatball, OP!

by Anonymousreply 59December 12, 2021 12:03 PM

Thanks, OP, for offering us the opportunity to ask you questions. Here are mine!

1) Why the melodrama?

2) Do you really think you are so fascinating that people are going to coax a story out of you?

by Anonymousreply 60December 12, 2021 12:04 PM

OP moved like Harlow in Monte Carlo. Europe never recovered.

by Anonymousreply 61December 12, 2021 12:04 PM

Such a sanitary dictatorship in Italy

by Anonymousreply 62December 12, 2021 12:06 PM

You must find me fascinating enough r60 to actually post that question in the thread that I started to try and coax something out of me. If you truly felt the way you do, which obviously you don't, you would have just kept it moving.

by Anonymousreply 63December 12, 2021 12:07 PM

[quote] You must find me fascinating enough [R60] to actually post that question in the thread that I started to try and coax something out of me.

Yes, I coaxed a response out of you that confirms you're 1) new to the internet 2) unaware of how self-centered you come across. I can rest easy now and get on with my day,

by Anonymousreply 64December 12, 2021 12:09 PM

r60 You asked a question in a thread where I said to ask me any question and I will respond to it. You didn't need to coax anything. I opened the door and said come right in. Which you did - with an odd question. I was only responding to you. You came here, I didn't seek you out. I am not sure what you're trying to say. But you seem to be quite satisfied with the outcome of it all. So we can leave it there.

And no I don't think I am fascinating. But I do think I have an interesting take on a topic a lot of people might be pondering for themselves right now. I think that is a good reason enough to start a constructive thread about it.

by Anonymousreply 65December 12, 2021 12:14 PM

What is your ethnicity?

by Anonymousreply 66December 12, 2021 12:17 PM

My BF just so happens to be an Italian dude from Naples, which is why I'm fluent in HIS language as well. Meanwhile, I'm just here dwelling in LA, bearding with a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader from half a continent apart...

by Anonymousreply 67December 12, 2021 12:22 PM

I'm glad for this thread. It makes me want to explode moving to Italy. I've long wanted to live overseas. Feel the same way about the U.S. Italy sounds like heaven.

by Anonymousreply 68December 12, 2021 12:27 PM

Good for you, Op. I retired from the State Department and spent 25 years living overseas in various countries. My favorite were Wellington, NZ and London. I could have very easily lived in either of those two places for the rest of my life.

What I have noticed about people who have never left the USA is that it is a whole different way of life out of the American rat race. Food is better, people are happier and healthier and life is just easier, most of the time. Americans a too wound up about everything.

I would love to live in another country, but alas, nobody wants to receive middle class eldergays.

by Anonymousreply 69December 12, 2021 12:31 PM

R68 A lot of Americans are. Like r41 said, you kind of have to know what you are looking for here, and not just reasons why you want to leave the States. It's not the easiest thing to do. And depending on where you live, the Consulates vary in who they will and won't grant visas to. Some of them like NYC and LA being notoriously strict. I actually moved to PA briefly before and went there the Pennsylvania consulate which was much easier to deal with. There are some things I wish I had known before, and things I would have done differently to save me time and frustration. But I am glad to be on this side of things, six months into it.

by Anonymousreply 70December 12, 2021 12:32 PM

Oh I've been to Grease, and the Isle of Nice!

by Anonymousreply 71December 12, 2021 12:34 PM

R71 Is that where you sipped champagne on a yacht?

by Anonymousreply 72December 12, 2021 12:36 PM

It's very true R69. I know it sounds cliche, but it's true. At least people here aren't wrapped up in the latest and greatest. My teacher is a 30 year old guy with a flip phone. Obviously he doesn't make a ton of money. But it's not like oh, the iPhone 13 came out and I need to trade in my 12. They just use things until they don't work anymore and then replace it. The freaking trams here in Rome look like from the 1940s. Yet they are still rolling down the road carrying people to where they need to be. You have grown ass men in suits getting into tiny cars or riding motos to get around. It's isn't about what kind of car you drive, what you are wearing. People here spend their money on vacations and time with their family and friends. The type of person you are seems to be much more important than what you have. A good salary is about 75-100K. You could LIVE a really decent life here on that.

by Anonymousreply 73December 12, 2021 12:37 PM

it where i showed them my fat TWAT R72

by Anonymousreply 74December 12, 2021 12:39 PM

Living someplace and visiting are not the same thing. I lived in Germany for several years and returned to the US shortly before the pandemic (with 1 year left on my visa). The first year was amazing. My new life was full of so much hope and possibility...everything was new and exciting...all my problems were thousands of miles away...

However, it was shocking how quickly the novelty wore off. I remember driving home one day and laughing how I was sitting in traffic, stressed about work, disappointed in my love life, and spending way too much on rent and gas...just like in the US.

That said, I was so glad to be in another country when Trump was elected, because I feared where the US was headed. I also got to do so much traveling and adopted a more relaxed way of life (taking time to enjoy a good meal, resting on Sundays, driving only when necessary). I've enjoyed being back home for the most part, but the constant doom and gloom about the US has me ready to leave again.

Anyway, it helps OP is going from a large international city, to another large international city. Plus he's doing something I failed to do (something that limited my opportunities to build closer friendships and feel invested in my new home): spending several hours a week learning the language. I only learned enough German to get by...whereas fluency is the way to go if you're going to be in another country for a year or more.

by Anonymousreply 75December 12, 2021 12:54 PM

Ho ancora molti dubbi ma se sei davvero in Roma e ti serve aiuto chiedi pure. Non capisco perchè non dovrebbero farti la terza dose se hai il permesso di soggiorno e per inciso per quanto ne so aprire un B&B è il modo più sicuro per non vederselo rinnovare.

by Anonymousreply 76December 12, 2021 12:57 PM

Ciao, R76. Commento molto interessante che hai fatto, e sono d'accordo. Tuttavia, tutti sanno come usare Google Translate, quindi per favore scrivi la tua domanda nella tua lingua madre, che presumo sia l'inglese. Grazie per la vostra considerazione.

by Anonymousreply 77December 12, 2021 1:27 PM

I was not asking you and english is definitely not my mother tongue. If I need google translate is for english not italian.

by Anonymousreply 78December 12, 2021 1:38 PM

Why woukd you doubt if I am in Rome r76? If you actually know Italy you know how long everything takes. I submitted my permesso the first week I arrived in June at the soul crushing Poste Italiane. They made my appointment for November! I just had my appointment. My permesso won’t even be ready until the end of this month. I am not a resident. So I cannot get the vaccine here. Yes once I am a resident I can get my tessera sanitaria and then I can get health care here. But until then no. So I will get my booster when I return to the states this Christmas and get my Vax card transferred to a GreenPass.

by Anonymousreply 79December 12, 2021 4:56 PM

This was from walking around yesterday doing some Christmas shopping. I had wanted to see the tree at the Vatican and at Piazza Venezia and the lights along Via del Corso.

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by Anonymousreply 80December 12, 2021 5:10 PM

^ I hate your guts . Really.

by Anonymousreply 81December 12, 2021 5:19 PM

Congratulazioni for living in a civilized country OP.

by Anonymousreply 82December 12, 2021 5:22 PM

^^ Christmas tree is nice. Is that the Pope's Christmas tree?

by Anonymousreply 83December 12, 2021 5:23 PM

R79 Poste Italiane = Aspetta eterna

by Anonymousreply 84December 12, 2021 5:27 PM

R83 the one in front of St. Peter’s Basilica, yes. The other is in Piazza Venezia which is one of the major Piazza’s in the city. The trees nick name here is Spelacchio which means mangy. It got it’s name from about four years ago where the city’s tree was very very mangy. And it stuck.

by Anonymousreply 85December 12, 2021 5:36 PM

R79 you can make appointments online now but that doesn’t help much. The post office btw is where you get a lot of shit done - pay utility bills, governmental paperwork and actually mail items. Twice here the woman didn’t want to give packages because I guess in Italy your full name is First, Middle and Last as it appears on your passport. But I had the items just mailed to my first and last name. She didn’t think it was me. So odd. I’m like in the states we just go by first and last. She said well here you have to include your entire name as shown on your ID.

by Anonymousreply 86December 12, 2021 5:40 PM

How much did you take out of your 401k, how much is your rent, and how much are you paying for the language school? I would like to do something similar in Mexico but I will have to sell my home, etc. Also, I am a lawyer without any skills in a foreign country so I don't know what I would do for work.

by Anonymousreply 87December 12, 2021 5:54 PM

There is always teaching ESL/EFL. I did that for years in several countries. You will not get rich but you can do just okay with it.

by Anonymousreply 88December 12, 2021 5:58 PM

Ahhhhhh them Mrkans and their obsession with Italy. Go take your 4th shot and go back to the US

by Anonymousreply 89December 12, 2021 6:02 PM

R87 at the time the max was 100k. Taxes over three years is like 46k. They took 10 off the top. I paid off some bills and stashed the rest. Language school is 3k a year here. The law seems like a very transferable skill. Not that you can practice in another country, you can use your skills towards something. I have also learned knowing English is a golden ticket. It’s the international language. For a handful of jobs you don’t even need to know the native language. Others they don’t care if your native language is butchered as king as you can speak English.

I used to think that was because of the mighty American dollar. But more than that, a German traveling to Italy and go shopping is not going to learn Italian. They are going to know English and expect to be able to conduct their vacation in English. It’s the language every educated European knows.

So fluency on a native speaking level, past text book learning is highly valued - at least here I know. I used to do sales. So I can more than just communicate in English, I’m nuanced enough in English to sell someone in English.

by Anonymousreply 90December 12, 2021 6:07 PM

I didn’t have to leave the United States to humblebrag.

I did it right here on Datalounge.

by Anonymousreply 91December 12, 2021 6:33 PM

R79 It make sense: I was under the impression you had yours permesso in june while now I understood you filed the immigration kit at poste back then: yes you need the serial number on the back of tessera sanitaria to make an appointment through regionals vaccination web portals. Il mio consiglio è di guardare fin da ora dove si trova la sede ASL per scegliere il medico di famiglia: devi chiedere dove fa ambulatorio (può essere anche più di un posto) e trovare qualcuno non troppo lontano da dove abiti altrimenti ogni volta che ti servirà una prescrizione dovrai attraversare tutta la città.

by Anonymousreply 92December 12, 2021 7:29 PM

Grazie, r92. Non vedo l'ora.

by Anonymousreply 93December 12, 2021 7:35 PM

Um, so Italian dick?

How's it been so far?

by Anonymousreply 94December 12, 2021 9:22 PM

R94, he's in a committed relationship with his husbear who is also the breadwinner.

by Anonymousreply 95December 12, 2021 10:44 PM

He's been to paradise but he's never been to he. So don't be jealous of OP.

by Anonymousreply 96December 12, 2021 10:50 PM

I just moved from bella Roma (ho vissuto a Prati vicino Castle St. Angelo) and miss it every single day. Vi auguro un meraviglioso Natale e un felice anno nuovo, OP. Enjoy this festive season in your gorgeous new city.

by Anonymousreply 97December 12, 2021 11:22 PM

Thanks for posting that OP, been thinking about moving there from the States. I have never been to Italy, but my grandfather was from there and apparently since he never renounced his citizenship until after I was born, the way the laws work there I can become an Italian citizen if I can deal with the paperwork. My cousin actually did it a number of years ago, so I know it's possible.

The thing is I have been with my partner for almost 30 years here in the US and he dose not have that option. We are not married but I read if you get married outside of Italy, they respect the marriage the same as if you are straight except for adoptions. So it's technically possible I could get him citizenship if we get married I think.

But that's not whats holding me back, I want to know what it's really like to live there as an American. My other half hates big cities, so Rome would probably not be where we end up. But I love them so compromise I guess. He wants to move there so he's very open to it.

by Anonymousreply 98December 13, 2021 12:09 AM

[quote]Rome would probably not be where we end up

Not OP, but I wonder how well you speak Italian, specifically the dialect where you might want to live.

by Anonymousreply 99December 13, 2021 12:13 AM

That's a whole different discussion R99. Obviously I need to learn Italian, I don't expect "everyone speaks English" BS line I hear from obnoxious American trailers.

by Anonymousreply 100December 13, 2021 12:16 AM

Any issues with opening a bank account to pay bills, Op? The IRS changed the rules several years ago and many foreign countries didn't want to deal with reporting requirements.

by Anonymousreply 101December 13, 2021 12:16 AM

R98 Watch the Stanley Tucci Italy food show, you’ll be getting hitched and packing your bag in no time.

by Anonymousreply 102December 13, 2021 12:45 AM

R75, I think if you had learned more German language, your experience would have been way better. Also, it sounds like you were single whereas OP moved to Rome w/his husband.

Not judging you. I lived in Japan for a year and I'm absolutely sure I would have had a better experience had I learned more Japanese (language).

by Anonymousreply 103December 13, 2021 2:40 AM

OP, you sound happy. I love how Italians put some time into their appearances, young or old.

OP, you must go to the Cornaro Chapel. Seems like not much from the outside, but inside there's Bernini's "Ecstasy of St. Teresa."

I'm surprised that you miss American coffee. What is American coffee, anyway? Do you use a moka pot?

I was surprised to enjoy the Trevi Fountain. I thought it would be cheesy, but there was something enjoyable about being outside, eating gelato, looking at the statues.

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by Anonymousreply 104December 13, 2021 2:44 AM

Which saunas have you presented hole at?

Are you meeting whores? Is Grindr your preferred method? They seem to be using Telegram over yonder.

by Anonymousreply 105December 13, 2021 2:54 AM

[quote][R98] Watch the Stanley Tucci Italy food show, you’ll be getting hitched and packing your bag in no time.

I did, liked it a lot. Only wish he didn't po-po some of the classic food there and make it all about the more elite culinary stuff and his personal preferences.

by Anonymousreply 106December 13, 2021 6:09 AM

They have gay bath houses there, but from what I heard not that popular. But that's more of a global thing, gays under 40 have never really been into that. They dont need to do that to get laid. They dont need to hide.

by Anonymousreply 107December 13, 2021 6:11 AM

It's slowly becoming more gay friendly. They have a gay pride in Rome. I think Milan has one too, not sure. Milan is full of designers, products, furniture, fashion, so....

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by Anonymousreply 108December 13, 2021 6:20 AM

R94, r95 is exactly right. Ha. But my husband and I have been together 24 years. We are not naive to think we haven't played around. We aren't open. But we both know that if we did anything on the side it would not be the end of anything. We openly comment on guys we find hot. I know he has played around and he knows that I have. We talk about it. It's funny, he commented just last night how he was cruised by this hot guy taking out the garbage last night. The men here make you very horny that is for sure. I am sure r97 would agree. BUT it's interesting - Italy in general doesn't seem as overtly sexual as the states. I don't get the feeling there is as much "hooking up" here or casual sex. They all seem very romantic and not sexually aggressive. We both have Grindr and the guys are like, "we should go out for a drink."

Another comforting thing is that the men are not obsessed with working out, buff bodies. They go to the gym to stay fit (if that), not be on the cover of Men's Fitness. They are all pretty much thin if not downright skinny. Even adult males here are built like 13 year olds. You aren't going to see a lot of pecs or biceps or assess. It's all about the faces, the clothes, lean bodies. Thick hair, bushy brows, pouty lips, beautiful eyes.

by Anonymousreply 109December 13, 2021 7:31 AM

r98 You are right. If you're grandfather was Italian, then you can get your citizenship. Gay marriage isn't here yet. But my husband and I actually got married before we moved thinking it would be easier to travel to Italy as a couple as opposed to two single guys. I am not exactly sure how it is recognized here to be honest. I know they have domestic partnership. And we filed our permesso as a married couple. And I am not sure how that would work for you toward citizenship for your husband.

For us, it was covid. We both weren't the happiest in NYC after so many years. And then the world stopped. And we were like, what more of a sign do we need to move. So that is when we started the process. The world was really upside down then and a major life change just seemed to fit perfectly in with that. Milan and Rome are probably the biggest cities and most expensive here in Italy. If I were you, I would look at Florence or Bologna maybe. Those are both bigger cities but not major metropolitan areas. And so so inexpensive comparatively. Again we were coming from NYC, so even Rome seems downright inexpensive. The apartment we have here for 1400 euros a month would easily be $7000 a month in Manhattan. My husband likes to cook and the cost for groceries is astonishingly low. The cost of living and the quality of life is just better.

As far as living here as an American, I have only been here six months. But I can say they do like Americans here. When we moved into our building our neighbours were like, "We like internationals." It's funny how the Africans around the corner are " immigrants" and we are "internationals." My husband is already teaching American to one of the older neighbors who just wants to practice conversational English. My whole point in moving here was to learn the language but I do know Americans who have full lives here in Rome for 12, 18 years with only a working knowledge of the language. That is not what I would want, but it is possible. The more you move out of the major areas, the more necessary fluency will be. I would definitely advise taking classes and just jumping in.

The best way I can describe being an American here is like the relationship between an older and younger sibling. You get this vibe that Italians really think Americans are cool, you sense them trying to impress you, or least be seen by you. Our neighbours have younger daughters who are always playing English music and singing along, as it seems, for us to hear them. The funniest thing was when we first moved the daughter was talking to her cat loudly outside for our benefit and in a thick accent said, "Sit down BITCH! Show some respect!" Knowing English is a sign of education and a lot of Italians who can speak it will want to speak to you in English. At first I thought it was because my Italian was so bad. But as I've gotten better, I realize they just are excited to practice their English with native speakers - to see if they are understood, can pass. This is especially true for waitstaff of service industries where their job usually depends on them speaking English and staying sharp. And some Italians will avoid you because they don't want to show you how bad their English is, like it's embarrassing to them. I just want to tell them I am here to speak your language, this is your country, the last thing you should feel bad about is speaking Italian.

by Anonymousreply 110December 13, 2021 8:00 AM

r104 American coffee is basically what you get at any coffee shop there - slow drip or brewed coffee beans. I miss savouring a nice warm cup of coffee. Here they just have espresso, OR cafe americano which is just watered down espresso. It's not coffee. An espresso you don't savour, its very strong, and one shot and done. The americano is a little bigger but there are no "Grandes" or "Vintis." If you had their americano prepared in that size you'd probably have a panic attack.

The breadth and depth of history pouring out of every corner here is absolutely breath taking. You have the renaissance built over the ancient. And it is literally everywhere. Everything is completely accessible. There are at least five working churches in my neighborhood with great works of art from Michelangelo to Bernini. One close to me was originally built in the 6 century AD and later taken over by a Pope who moved all of the Christian Martyrs who were buried outside of the city walls inside to give them a proper burial. So you can casually go in and see these crypts filled with christians killed 2000 years ago. There is no entrance fee. People are still going to mass, confession. The one down the street, San Pietro in Vincolo has Michelangelo's Moses and the chains that held San Pietro when he was imprisoned. My walk from school to the gym takes me through the Roman and Imperial forum every single day. The colosseum is a 7 minute walk through a Parco Colle Oppio past the Domus Aurea: Nero's Golden Temple. From the Pantheon to the Trevi fountain, to the Vatican.

It may all sound like a boring history lesson. But it does change the way you see your own life, what you value when you live among structures that have seen the likes of you come and go for hundreds, thousands of years. You actually begin to see how YOUNG America is and its problems are - like a child still trying to prove itself to the great empires of the past, preening and posing, trying on the mantle of a Greatness that has yet to really stand the test of time.

by Anonymousreply 111December 13, 2021 8:33 AM

I guess the thing is Italy isn't openly gay like we know in the States. But it IS very homoerotic. Again, the standard of beauty seems to be male beauty. Gay or straight, men have no problem admiring each other. I really don't see the male posturing you see in the states, the fear surrounding "appearing gay" that you have in the states. And there doesn't seem to be a fear of gay as a disease that's taking over the culture. The biggest cultural exports are flaming queer men. I am sure in smaller cities I might see more of that. But even living in NYC I felt this vitriolic pushback for being gay from certain communities, Staten Island to Brooklyn to Queens, the Bronx. I don't feel that here. I think at their heart, they know that relationships between men were a big part of the Roman culture and openly accepted as something that was done. Renaissance art is nothing if not an ode to the beauty of the male form. And Romans are fiercely proud of anything Roman. So even with the heart of the Catholic Church here, they are not going to let that dictate the appropriateness of something that stems from their origins.

I mean Mahmood is one of the biggest recording artist here and this is the video from his biggest hit.

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by Anonymousreply 112December 13, 2021 9:12 AM

That guys Egyptian and Italian, very interesting mix. Very kissable lips.

by Anonymousreply 113December 13, 2021 10:01 AM

R101: While you are correct, Americans typically won't have issues opening accounts with large banks that have an international (or at least country-wide) presence.

I had no issues opening a bank account in Germany, because I went with a well-known institution. However, Americans who tried to open accounts with local banks were often out of luck.

by Anonymousreply 114December 13, 2021 10:34 AM

Now the big question, how often do you hang out with Sylvia Poggioli, I always imagine her holding court at a table in one of the grand piazzas with a triple expresso and a pack of ciggies talking about being a WWII foreign correspondent?

by Anonymousreply 115December 13, 2021 11:36 AM

I've always imagined Sylvia Poggioli holding court at a pizza restaurant, making her way through an entire menu as exasperated servers pray for relief.

by Anonymousreply 116December 13, 2021 11:45 AM

OP, you should start a YouTube channel. I’d love to follow you along on your new life in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 117December 13, 2021 12:47 PM

They are draining the pasta there, right?

by Anonymousreply 118December 13, 2021 12:48 PM

r118 You strain it, not rinse it. You need the starch on the pasta for the sauce to adhere to.

by Anonymousreply 119December 13, 2021 1:18 PM

I totally agree that OP needs a YouTube channel. This thread is my happy place right now. As an American, isn’t it just lovely to think about living in places that aren’t divided and fighting constantly? Where the values are more focused on relationships and community? That sounds like heaven to me, and I hope the Great Resignation means more Americans get out of the rat race. Corporations are sucking the narrow right out of our bones, take back our power people.

by Anonymousreply 120December 13, 2021 4:30 PM

OP, espresso is a *technique* for making coffee. You can put any type of ground coffee in an espresso machine.

espressso coffee plus water (americano) should give you a nice cup of coffee. Espresso is a concentrate. So, even if you add water, it should taste good.

by Anonymousreply 121December 13, 2021 5:02 PM

R121, I believe Op knows that, but he misses the difference in texture and flavor of American-style coffee is all.

by Anonymousreply 122December 13, 2021 5:09 PM

More than the flavor, the difference for me is more the manner if drinking. OP notes that Italian coffee is served in small, intense portions, usually standing up. It's not the savoring, cup-cradling weaker American coffee served up in large portions that you could down quickly on the run, but many Americans spend time with their coffee, drinking it slowly, checking their email, multitasking.

Good flavor and Intensity can be found in coffee in the U.S., what's difficult to find in Italy is a big mug of something of less fortitude, to be enjoyed in quantity and over a longer period of time.

If it were alcohol, the comparison is shots of something strong to be downed in a jolt versus a long, sipping drink to enjoy over a half hour.

by Anonymousreply 123December 13, 2021 5:42 PM

[quote] I MISS Coffee, American Coffee - not caffe Americano either. I miss straight up American coffee. I can find it here, I Just haven't gotten a machine yet.

OK, I understand. However, I think you can use whatever coffee (beans, ground) you can find in Rome and use a drip machine. Voila: American style coffee. I don't think you need to buy special "American Coffee" in bags or cans or bricks.

Sorry, don't mean to derail this enjoyable thread.

by Anonymousreply 124December 13, 2021 5:47 PM

R123 Thank you for the explanation. Yes it is possible for me to have American style coffee here. I just have yet to get a grinder and a machine. And a good place to buy whole beans. I do believe espresso is a different kind of preparation, grind of the coffee bean which isn't sold widely here. There is a coffee store where I saw Starbucks coffee being sold, although I think it was flavoured. The "American" items here seemed to be geared to what they think we want, flavored sweet products. There is a store here called Castroni which is a high end grocery store. They sell American items like Chips Ahoy, Duncan Hines cake mixes and Ortega salsa - the exact types of things no American shopping at a high end grocery store would buy. But who knows it might be exactly the same in reverse in the states.

by Anonymousreply 125December 13, 2021 10:05 PM

I will say this. This isn't easy. It is hard. And for anyone wanting to do it, it takes a lot of preparation mentally and bureaucratically to do it. It is not something you just do casually. It helped that I didn't know all that it would entail from the very beginning, but instead I took each challenge as it came.

One thing that you take for granted is how much of your personality comes from the way you choose to use your native language - sense of humor, turn of phrase, how you express yourself when you are angry. You do lose that in the beginning. If you're outspoken and fun, you become a bit sheltered and withdrawn. You find yourself living huge chunks of your life avoiding actual real conversations that remind you of how much you don't know. A trip to the grocery store in the beginning takes mental preparation. And when you are living like that day to day, it is exhausting and can be frustrating. I say living life learning a foreign language is basically you walking and mumbling to yourself in preparation for a conversation you're about to have or mentally correcting the mistakes of a conversation you just had. If you are smart, it's even harder because you're painfully aware of your very basic level of communication compared to how you used to speak in your own language. A three year old kid fearlessly speaking, using the grammar you just learned in class as you struggle to understand him, will frustrate you. So being here is like walking through a world you desperately want to be part of, because it has so much to offer, yet hesitant because you'll only be reminded of how much work you have to do. And you realize that work will never be done or it will be years before you reach a level where you might find an equal voice to the one you had before. It's a weird struggle. Your personality changes, your writing changes. The tone of who you are shifts a bit. I am still trying to find ways to keep my sense of humor, to find ways to make people laugh even cobbling together very simple phrases.

I don't miss America right now I must say. I do miss the familiar. I do miss the ease of moving through life where ordering something off of Amazon didn't take half an hour on ReversoContext, or writing an email to your landlord about your heat not working. But it's that ease that led to boredom and dissatisfaction with life overall, I have to keep reminding myself. This IS what I signed up for and it won't always be like this. There will be a time when I look back wistfully at my language struggles being my biggest life obstacles. But America now feels like your brother who you love dearly but who is addicted to drugs. I am just watching it from a distance, watching the embarrassing news come out about this mass shooting or Christmas cards with ar15 rifles, and hoping for the best - but realizing the best may not come. When you live somewhere that had an empire reining for hundreds of years you look at America and say 150 year run isn't one of the all time greats, but at least it left a mark. You can visualize it being over for a country that seemed like it would be on top forever. It just seems rather dark and sad and watching people dance while the ship sinks. I hope I am wrong. I am very proud to be an American. People here love our culture, they want to be us. But they don't know what being us really means. And I tell them embrace the beautiful thing they have here.

oh and btw, Amazon.com and Amazon.it are completely different entities. You can't even use Amazon.com gift cards on .IT. It's weird. And ordering something from .com means the shipping is about the cost of the item itself, if not more sometimes. I'm really hoping no one gets me .com gift cards for Christmas.

by Anonymousreply 126December 13, 2021 10:37 PM

OP do you have that 30% VAT tax on everything like other parts of Europe? Assuming you can get things delivered from Amazon, is there a 30% markup on that?

Do you have a car there? My friend in Denmark has a car and with gas at 7euros per liter, he says it costs about 1,000 a month for the car, insurance and gas. Yes, I know everyone like pubilc, just wondering if you have a car and a place to keep it in the city, etc.

Is there tax on food? In California, there's no tax on food that you buy in a grocery store as long as it's not cooked or prepared hot.

by Anonymousreply 127December 13, 2021 10:39 PM

R127 I don't need a car in Rome, thankfully, which is a lot like the way I lived in NYC. I can walk to wherever I want to go or take mass transit or bike shares or car shares. It's funny because there are trams that go through the city that no one ever buys a ticket for. Once in a blue moon someone will come through a car checking for people's tickets. But basically I just have a ticket I buy and keep in my wallet and never validate it. As long as it's not validated its valid for three months or something like that. That is part of the Italian inefficiency that works in most people's favor.

I just know the food is a lot, lot less here. About half. And the quality is just better. You do have to shop seasonally. The grocery store doesn't offer items up year round. They sell what's in season, and when it's gone it's gone. And the Italians are very knowledgeable about what and when to buy stuff. "Oh, you don't want to get the figs yet. The ones here are from Spain. The Italian ones should be coming later in the month." You see 21 year old kids shopping and buying ingredients for themselves for the dinner they are going to prepare that night. Food delivery is JUST taking off here - COVID had a lot to do with that. GLOVO and I think UberEasts have a market now. But people of all ages shop and cook their own food. I don't know how to cook. My husband does all of that. So I am endlessly impressed seeing young people buying food for themselves, or stuff to take over to a friend's to prepare.

I wish I could give you a good example of the cost of stuff. But I was never that good with prices in the US since I didn't do the shopping. One thing I do know is that Italians use a lot of bottled water. You just buy it for the week in 1.5L bottles. So Aqua Pana for instance, in a six pack of 1.5L is about 2.69 euro, about $3.50 dollars - for 6! I distinctly remember one AquaPana being about $4 in NYC and I don't think that was 1.5L. I know my husband freaks out when he remembers things are priced in Kilograms and not lbs, so the prices he sees he mentally cuts in half. You can leave the grocery store with three big bags of groceries of really great stuff for under 30euro, $35 maybe. Oh, and Philadelphia cream cheese is everywhere here. Right now reggiano parmigiana is about $10 a lb.

by Anonymousreply 128December 13, 2021 10:57 PM

You dont know if you pay tax on food?

I don't understand the bottled water thing, Rome has some of the cleanest water in Italy, like NYC does in the US but even better than the US I have read.

by Anonymousreply 129December 13, 2021 11:06 PM

R129, it's more the type of water consumed. Yes, tap water in most European countries is clean, but the tend to drink sparkling water (which is somewhat of a novelty in the US).

What I found living in Europe was the cost of staples (milk, bread, eggs, fruits, vegetables) and alcohol were cheaper. However, meat, seafood, and frozen/prepared meals were way more expensive.

by Anonymousreply 130December 13, 2021 11:59 PM

Yes, you said food was cheaper, but is there tax on it. Simple question.

by Anonymousreply 131December 14, 2021 12:01 AM

R109 so let me get this right: You "aren't open" as a couple, but you both have Grindr and you both fuck other people.

by Anonymousreply 132December 14, 2021 1:17 AM

R130 Sparkling water is a novelty in the US? Where do you live, that isn’t anywhere an accurate description of all the many different places I’ve lived?

by Anonymousreply 133December 14, 2021 1:40 AM

r132 who cares? why is it your business?

by Anonymousreply 134December 14, 2021 3:29 AM

You never heard of S.Pellegrino OP? It comes from Italy. It used to be everywhere during the 80's and 90's. Now it's in the grocery store right next to Sparklets.

by Anonymousreply 135December 14, 2021 6:25 AM

To address all the water questions. Yes Rome has clean water running, some still sourced through the ancient aqueducts. They actually have nosone on the streets that are water fountains people drink out of. Buying bottled water is just something they do here instead. The water coming out of the tap is hard I believe. I know I have to buy water softeners for the dishwashers and other appliances. I am very particular about water and as they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do. Romans buy bottled water. And yes there is Pelligrino, Levissima, San Bernadeto, Acqua Panna. I just looked, a twelve pack of Acqua Panna is $30 on Walmart, for smaller bottles. So $15 through Walmart as opposed to $3 here for larger bottles.

R129 Of course there is tax on the food. I don't buy it. I couldn't tell you if it's 33%, 33.25%, 27.8%. What does it matter? My point is that it could be taxed 55% but it still cheaper. And all food is cheaper including meats and seafood here. The one thing that IS more expensive are any alcohols that come from the states. But they are only slightly more expensive or seem more expensive because everything else is cheaper. I know we just did get a bottle of Veuve Clicquot for New Years on sale for $30. I remember it being $50-$60 in the US.

by Anonymousreply 136December 14, 2021 7:24 AM

Not OP but Italy like other EU countries has Value Added Tax (VAT) applied to almost everything. The VAT is calculated in the purchase price, not added on after the fact, so if an item is labeled €1.50, that is what you pay in total. In Italy I think VAT is 22%, and for some basic foods (and some non-foods as well) it is a reduced rate (10% or 4%, depending, in my country which has a similar VAT structure.)

VAT standard rates in the EU range from 17% in Luxembourg to 27% in Hungary, most are around 21 or 22%.

by Anonymousreply 137December 14, 2021 7:43 AM

Thanks R137. That's all I was asking for. Didn't realize they add totaled on the label. OP sounds ditzy if he's never walked into a small market and bought anything to eat. We know she doesn't cook but even people who don't cook go buy food once and a while. Maybe she is totally living off the husbands credit card so doesn't even bother to look. Must be nice.

by Anonymousreply 138December 14, 2021 8:53 AM

R138 loves to make bitchy assumptions. I couldn’t tell you much about nyc sales tax although I’ve lived here for a very long time. Most food doesn’t seem to be taxed, some clothes are, I don’t know the rate.

Maybe R138 is a penny pincher who needs to find a better job and stop perseverating over a few pennies.

by Anonymousreply 139December 14, 2021 11:02 AM

R138 I just ultimately didn't care about your particular question and the way you approached it. It was a big "who cares..?" kinda moment. When I buy something to eat, I don't sit down and asses the value added tax to my panini on the receipt as I enjoy it. Just pay what the man tells me. And I am not digging up receipts to satisfy your milquetoast curiosities. It's as simple as that. But I am glad that someone with more knowledge and attention to your type of question was able to answer it for you. Please don't ask me about the weight of grapes next.

by Anonymousreply 140December 14, 2021 11:19 AM

OP himself overshares. He put out the info that he's not in open relationship, but both are on Grindr and they fuck other guys. I know this because he told us. So why can't I ask, what's up with that? OP has been a windbag about everything else.

by Anonymousreply 141December 14, 2021 11:35 AM

Well, I'm quite interested in what OP has to say on this subject. Moving to a different country is something I've thought about doing, so hopefully he will share more.

The tax questions are bizarre. Who cares? I've never heard anyone carry on about sales tax the way you have. Property taxes or income taxes, sure. But sales tax? let it go.

by Anonymousreply 142December 14, 2021 1:01 PM

But why would you care if we are in an open relationship or not? You can ask whatever question you want. To me an open relationship is when you sit down and have a conversation saying that you are going to have sex with other people. We have never done that. But I know before in the past he has hooked up with other guys and so have I. But when I have found out about it in the past, I really don't mind and neither does he. Don't know what else more there is to say.

by Anonymousreply 143December 14, 2021 1:02 PM

Speaking of oversharing, here is a video of part of my walk home today. It's down this road called Via Panisperna through the Monti area of Rome up towards the church Santa Maria Maggiore. Monti is actually the first suburb ever, its Rione 1 in Rome and the birthplace of Julius Caesar. I live in Esquilino just beyond that. Just after the one minute mark you see one of the gay bars, clubs in the area - 101 bar. I've never been. But I think it's basically a sex, dive bar kind of like the Cock, in NYC, if anyone has ever been there. You see some examples of the cute guys in Rome too. The video is long even though the walk isn't. Or I should say it moves slow. You always think you're walking faster than it actually appears.

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by Anonymousreply 144December 14, 2021 1:14 PM

If you actually do have questions about moving to another country, or Rome in particular, feel free to ask. I am no expert but I do have my own experience - whether it's Visa related or finding a place or costs, things I wish I would have done differently.

by Anonymousreply 145December 14, 2021 1:16 PM

Grazie mille, r144 / OP. That's just the kind of "oversharing" I was hoping for.

by Anonymousreply 146December 14, 2021 1:19 PM

Yes. r145, I have a couple questions. Did you move your furniture with you or sell or store before you left the US? I love a lot of my furniture, art, etc. that I've been collecting for years. Curious if you know how that works.

If you know what sort of Visas are available. I think you said you're on student Visa. If/when you get a job there, wondering if you have a sense for how easy or difficult it is to transfer to a work Visa of some sort. Or if there are other sorts of Visas? One of my biggest fears of making such a big move is being there for however long, and then ending up in a situation where I'd be forced to move back to the US.

by Anonymousreply 147December 14, 2021 1:58 PM

R147 We ended up selling or getting rid of a lot of our furniture. I gave a lot of pieces to my family as well. So I guess it is still there if there comes a time when I need it again. I didn't have much collectible art except a small painting that we packed and moved with us here. I looked into the cost of shipping larger pieces and it was very expensive. So I gave those to my brother for his house. He is a photographer, so a lot of the pieces were his works anyway.

It was through this process that I learned that investing a ton of money into any furniture is really a waste. You become a prisoner to it. Usually you tire of it after five or six years anyway and want something new. Pieces that I had paid a lot of money for were much harder for me to sell and let go of for the prices I ended up having to. We had a nice new TV, less than two years, that we ended up just leaving behind in the apartment. So it's been Maisionsdumonde furniture here all the way, which is like a cross between Ikea and West Elm.

There are different kinds of visas. Work Visa, Student Visa and Elective Residency Visa (retirement visa). We originally applied for elective residency visa in NY which is the type of visa one would get if you were planning to retire. We had a ton of savings. But we were rejected through NY because we didn't have passive income - money from rentals, monthly pension, etc. Event hough the yearly financial requirement was well below what we had saved, because we didn't have any passive monthly income, we were not approved. And for that type of Visa, you cannot work at all in the country you are planning on going to. Our second go round we went straight for the student visa. We were originally going to apply as students in NYC but we were told from our school that unless you are getting an advanced degree in a subject, NYC will reject you as well. Then you have to sue the consulate, because they aren't technically allowed to reject you for that reason. But the last thing I wanted to do is start my new life in a new country by suing their consulate. Because you can only apply to the consulate in the area that you reside in, we moved to Philadelphia for a couple of months and applied to their consulate there. Philadelphia consulate is much easier than NYC. Actually the lady gave us the side eye when we were applying saying. "you didn't want to go through NYC, huh?" We were approved a month later. The Visas are good for a year with a leeway staying in the country three months after its expiration, so 15 months. And with a student Visa you are allowed to work up to 20 hours a week.

by Anonymousreply 148December 14, 2021 4:08 PM

All in all it was pretty traumatic. Getting rejected did not feel good and made us question everything we were doing. And because you need a residence in the country you're going to, we lost an apartment and our deposit to one that we found just online. We had a friend here check it out just to make sure. But since we had no idea when we were coming we had to give it up. Again, we knew this is what we wanted so we pushed forward. Waiting to hear from Philadelphia was stressful because having been rejected once, you're not sure if you can take another. You can't call them, you can't ask the status. Time was winding down before our school was suppose to start and we had heard nothing. Finally after three weeks I casually got through and asked them if they needed our plane tickets to finalize the Visas. They were like, "what's your name again?" And once I told them we had them within a week. So it wasn't like they were busy, they just hadn't gotten around to it yet. So my advice would be to start asking sooner if you are waiting for a Visa. Find ways to remind them you're in the process.

The Visa is just to get here. Once you are in Italy you have to apply for you permesso di soggiorno within one week of arriving. That is another application process. They give you a date at the post office for when you have to go to the Questura and get finger printed for your permesso. Our appointment was set four months after arrival. And then you wait another month for the permesso. So since that is really the only thing you need to renew again, and not your Visa, by the time you get your first one, you pretty much have to start the process again to renew it, since it takes about six months. Having said all of that, I do know Americans who have come here on their three month passport visa and have just stayed. Obviously no one wants to be illegal. But one friend was rejected three times for her Visa. It's different for single women. They are afraid you are going to come here and get pregnant and stay. She just ended up coming and overstaying her Visa. She was lucky though upon returning to the States for Christmas. She batted her eyelashes and chatted up the guy at the customs desk. He just stamped her passport without even looking at the fact she had. been here three years over her visa. Other Americans I know have been here for like 20 years. Again, Italian inefficiency working in their favor.

So there is a lot of stress involved. The good thing is that it makes your intentions very clear to you as to whether you really want this or not. By the end of everything we had to go through to get the Visa, I was like, I don't care about anything I am leaving behind, I just want to get the fuck to Rome.

by Anonymousreply 149December 14, 2021 4:08 PM

And if you liked that R146, this is one of my favorite vids from the summer in Piazza Vittorio Emanuele just around the corner from me.

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by Anonymousreply 150December 14, 2021 4:22 PM

r150 Il prete si scuote il suo sedere. È molto divertente. Grazie mille.

by Anonymousreply 151December 14, 2021 4:31 PM

If anyone wants to experience life outside the US without jumping through hoops, consider countries with generous immigration agreements for Americans. Albania, Georgia, Palau, and Micronesia will let you stay without a visa for up to a year. Also, people willing to live on Svalbard are able to live and work there indefinitely...and although it doesn't open the door to Norwegian citizenship, you would have access to the mainland.

by Anonymousreply 152December 14, 2021 5:27 PM

Svalbard?

No, thank you.

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by Anonymousreply 153December 14, 2021 6:33 PM

I wouldn’t mind snuggling with Hakon

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by Anonymousreply 154December 14, 2021 6:35 PM

OP, I love all your videos! Please share more or upload them to YouTube.

I envy you, I would love to relocate to Europe (France in my case) but alas it’s not feasible at this point in my life.

by Anonymousreply 155December 14, 2021 6:43 PM

Here’s for you R155. This was from this summer when Italy won one of the EuroCup games. This wasn’t the final game but leading up to it.

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by Anonymousreply 156December 14, 2021 7:14 PM

This one is from the actual night Italy won the EuroCup. I must say it was a cool time to move to Rome. I’m not huge into sports, especially soccer - quel surprise. BUT this was different than anything I’ve experienced. It was so surreal when an entire country is behind one team, 60 million people. It was eerily quiet during the game. But as soon as Italy would score you would hear this eruption like a roar through the entire city - the entire country cheering at the same time. Everyone was watching. So everyone from Puglia to Milan all cheering at once.

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by Anonymousreply 157December 14, 2021 7:22 PM

Thanks OP!

I’m going to binge all the videos tonight with a glass (or several!) of Montepulciano.

by Anonymousreply 158December 14, 2021 7:28 PM

[quote]When I buy something to eat, I don't sit down and asses the value added tax to my panini on the receipt as I enjoy it. Just pay what the man tells me.

Yes, but since you were bragging about how cheap it was to eat there, then you should be able to point out why you think that. I have never met a person in the US who didn't know what their state sales tax was on anything, you have to pay it on everything you buy. It's not about penny pinching, it's about the differences. For example, in some states there is no tax on food, in other sates there is no tax on clothing because of harsh winters.

by Anonymousreply 159December 14, 2021 10:16 PM

R159, love the tax is included in the price. I was commenting on the food in the grocery stores not food that I buy at a restaurant. So if the water says 1.39 euros, I am not investigating how much of that is tax. I don't understand what you don't get about this. And the funny thing is, like I said above, I worked in luxury retail sales for years. 75% of the people I came across had no idea what the city/state tax was. So you either are a liar or don't meet many people.

by Anonymousreply 160December 14, 2021 10:24 PM

I have friends that just moved from the US to Portugal, all they had to do for a visa was show they were still working. If you are going there to retire I think you need to show a lot of money, but my friends told me they only had to show about 1,500 a month in income for the both of them, which was easy to do if you have a remote or work at home type job and can show the income. That's how must of those EU countries work. They just want to make sure you are not going to move there and start sponging off the system.

by Anonymousreply 161December 14, 2021 10:27 PM

However, I just looked it up for you and it is 10% tax on food and meats in Rome. And thanks to you, I will never fucking forget it.

But for future reference, when I quote the costs of foods, the price I am quoting INCLUDES the tax already. Tax is not something added on to the bill after items have been rung up.

by Anonymousreply 162December 14, 2021 10:28 PM

r161 That's how Portugal and Spain work, but definitely not Italy. Each country has their own rules. Like Spain you can even get citizenship if you buy a house there. Although once you are in the EU on a visa you can pretty much travel anywhere and live in an EU country. But we didn't want to have to travel to Spain JUST to live in Italy. Fortunately we didn't have to consider it.

by Anonymousreply 163December 14, 2021 10:31 PM

[quote]I worked in luxury retail sales for years. 75% of the people I came across had no idea what the city/state tax was. So you either are a liar or don't meet many people.

You just described your own bubble. You live and work in a "luxury" world. You think I am wrong, I dare you to start a post here and ask how many people dont know what their stat tax is. You would get ripped to shreds.

Good, I am glad you looked it, you should have done that before you moved FYI. Basic research I would think. But at least now you wont sound so clueless.

by Anonymousreply 164December 14, 2021 10:32 PM

You are a piece of work R164. The tax on meats and foods was not going to stop me from moving to Italy. I am not sure how this knowledge would have served me in any way, shape or form. And the MOST important take away from all of this is that the food is cheaper regardless of whatever tax they charge - 1/3 to 1/2 to sometimes even more depending on the item. You come across as an angry person. Some time in Italy would really serve you well, and ultimately probably cost less in the long run than any of the medications you must be on.

by Anonymousreply 165December 14, 2021 10:43 PM

Youtube has enough Americans living in Italy channels/videos.

They are generally a nice people, but can also be a bit harsh. I want to see what the father of the kid at 1:26 looks like.

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by Anonymousreply 166December 15, 2021 2:06 AM

OP (or someone on this thread) said the Italian men are all thin and in shape. Then how come the ones you see in Brooklyn are always fat?

by Anonymousreply 167December 15, 2021 2:23 AM

R167. It comes down to the food I guess. The Italian American food IS NOT the food you find here in Italy. The products here are cleaner too. GMO, artificial flavourings and things like that are banned here in Italy. So you don't have high fructose corn syrup or a meat supply full of hormones. And they don't eat as much meat overall. So the less meat a culture eats, the smaller, thinner.

by Anonymousreply 168December 15, 2021 6:56 AM

Italians in Italy are thinner because as OP said, better quality of food, but more importantly PORTION CONTROL. They dont eat a giant bowl of pasta for dinner. It's really a small portion like the size of a deck of cards as kind of a small coarse before the main course. They walk a lot every day even the older people have a nightly thing where they walk the city. They don't snack between meals either. They dont bing drink, wine is with dinner. They have bars but going out to a bar to get wasted is considered tacky and low class. They dont have a lot of fast food chains there like McDonald's or KFC. They exist but very rare to find. I think there is only 5 chains in the entire country as opposed to the US with over 500 fast food chains of restaurants. But mainly they just dont each as much as typical Americans. The men seem to care more about their appearance even into old age and it has nothing to do with business or "dressing for success."

by Anonymousreply 169December 15, 2021 7:05 AM

Maybe it's genetics of the Sicilians vs. the rest. It's all genetics.

by Anonymousreply 170December 15, 2021 11:27 AM

Op, do you leave a tip in Italian restaurants? I was in a tourist area of Naples a few years ago and was charged a sitting fee.

by Anonymousreply 171December 15, 2021 12:15 PM

[quote] kind of a small coarse before the main course

So close. You landed it once.....but not twice.

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 172December 15, 2021 12:25 PM

[quote]Why would you move to Italy? It's very homophobic. I'd choose Spain instead. I can't stand gays who glorify homophobic destinations like Italy and Dubai.

How is Italy comparable to Dubai?

It's this sort of childish hyperbole that really makes me hate DL sometimes.

by Anonymousreply 173December 15, 2021 1:17 PM

Homosexuality is Illegal ind Dubai and it's punishable by death. They may not do it too often but, it's still the law and they have put groups of gays it in the last decade or so. You have to stay low key and they "wont bother you".

Being gay is totally legal in Italy, same sex unions can take place within Italy, the only catch is you cant use the word marriage and you cant adopt kids. Outsiders who are gay and married get treated as married straight couples in Italy with all the same rights. The recently extended immigration rights to gay too so just like in the US if you marry someone from outside the country, they can become an Italian citizen even if it's a gay domestic partnership.

by Anonymousreply 174December 15, 2021 1:28 PM

[R20] It's an amazing cornucopia of foreskins. Any variety of foreskin imaginable is on offer. Short ones, long ones, loose ones, tight ones. Mi piace prepucio!

by Anonymousreply 175December 15, 2021 3:01 PM

Big deal R174. You just have to play the game. Don't walk around downtown Dubai holding hands with another man.

Play your cards right and you'll be undressed by kings there.

by Anonymousreply 176December 15, 2021 3:02 PM

R173 It's not just DL. It seems to be the way America is now - bombastic hyperbole. It's the Fox News syndrome. Or maybe they just highlight of mode of speaking that was already part of the culture.

[quote]Op, do you leave a tip in Italian restaurants? I was in a tourist area of Naples a few years ago and was charged a sitting fee.

No, I do not leave a tip unless I really really liked the service OR it's a place I go back to a lot. But a tip is just the spare change left over from your meal - literally 1,2 euros. 3 euros is generous. Italian restaurants charge a sitting fee or a bread fee. It is really nominal. It's not like 18/20% or anything. It's literally like 2 or 4 euro, and it's not per person, it's the entire bill. And not all restaurants do that even. And when there is a bread fee, the freaking bread is like from Roscioli or something, which is like one of the best Panificio's in Rome, like a Balthazar in NYC. Restaurants pay their staff a living wage for here, so they do not have to rely on tips to survive.

by Anonymousreply 177December 15, 2021 5:11 PM

This was today's walk from the gym. It's the walk I take pretty much everyday on my way home through the Roman and Imperial Forums that lead down to the Colosseum. The older Roman Forum is on the right which dates back to 500 BC. And the Imperial Forum is on the left which dates back to around 46 BC. Time is such a trip here, you can't wrap your mind around it. The idea that when they started building the Imperial Forums, the Roman ones were already 450 years old. So the people building the IMP forum would view the Roman one much the same as we'd view something from the Renaissance. Yet the IMP forums are over 2000 years old themselves now. Obviously everything existed in some way before it was inhabited by a people. But to live in a city that has been a CITY for over 2000 years is trippy. I love the stone pines that line the walk and that are all throughout Rome.

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by Anonymousreply 178December 15, 2021 5:44 PM

The stone pines wow me every time, R178/OP. I think with so rich and beautiful a neighborhood, to pass by the Vittorio Emanuele monument and the Campidoglio and Classical Rome, it must help put some of the frustrations of moving in a more favorable perspective. It's a gorgeous city and the first that I fell in love with. My first visit of three weeks I saw some 110 churches and many other places, walking everywhere. It's the city that made me want to travel more, to move around, to live in strange places, and to take on new (to me) things. How lucky to live there, or to have a walk to the gym or home past those places.

by Anonymousreply 179December 15, 2021 7:12 PM

Scrivi il tuo nome, zoccola! Sign your posts OP so we know it's you.

How much do you have in savings? Yes, I went there.

Did you mention what you did about your US cell phone # and getting an Italian cell?

by Anonymousreply 180December 16, 2021 12:46 AM

I just want to spend my day cruising the grottos

by Anonymousreply 181December 16, 2021 1:57 AM

[quote]You just have to play the game. Don't walk around downtown Dubai holding hands with another man.

Yeah, I am not into self imposed and state imposed homophobia. HARD PASS.

by Anonymousreply 182December 16, 2021 5:59 AM

Have you been to the gay underground sex cubs in the catacombs yet?

by Anonymousreply 183December 16, 2021 7:32 AM

So this is OP.

no 183. I would imagine any sex clubs in the catacombs this time of year would be cold and damp.

Speaking of which though, I shot another vid walking to the gym today a different route. Yes my life is pretty simple and routine at this point - school, gym then home. We go out on Friday and Saturday for a drink, dinner maybe. This time the walk is through Parco Colle Oppio leading up to the Colosseum. Nero's Domus Aurea, Gold Residence and right past the Colosseum. Just off to the left you can see sort of the Gay strip in Rome with the two main bars, "My Bar" and "Coming Out," of course. Although the gay scene in Rome is all over the city, from San Giovani to Trastevere. And I see gay guys and gay couples everywhere, even more than I saw just two years ago when I visited. Especially younger guys who are more open, holding hands, etc..

All of the pics are on one link. So you can see the next video walking toward Piazza Venezia and some guy playing sweet home Alabama. And there is a concrete mixer with a confederate flag. I don't get that here. I think they just see it as "American Country" just as they see the Hollywood Sign as LA. At least I hope.

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by Anonymousreply 184December 16, 2021 5:12 PM

What these Mrkans moving to Italy even do for a living is what I wanna know. They must all teach English in some irrelevant vschool, right? What other job could they POSSIBLY do, considering they don't even speak the local language?

by Anonymousreply 185December 16, 2021 10:29 PM

Read the thread r185

by Anonymousreply 186December 17, 2021 12:47 AM

Don't think I didn't notice you move the camera to that guy's disastrous tight pants.

by Anonymousreply 187December 17, 2021 1:49 AM

"Feel free to ask me any questions."

Because you're lonely for Americans?

by Anonymousreply 188December 17, 2021 1:56 AM

R188. I’m lonely for English. Sometimes I wanna cut loose, gallop through a language instead of stumble along.

It’s funny you mention Americans though, R188. I’m stateside now visiting family for Christmas. This is my first time back. And I must say I don’t miss Americans, at least as they are right now. Americans feel very remote, distant from each other. Everything is either ironic or acerbic, or just a joke which leads to an overall wariness and resignation. There is no sense of community and genuine emotion seems to be a weakness, unless it’s rage or indignation. I started in NYC, but even here in Ohio it’s the same. I can walk into a store and I am always the one who has to say hello to the cashier. People are just passing through with zero recognition of the humanity of the person in front of them. It’s cold, literally and figuratively.

Every store I go into in Italy, it’s buongiorno, salve, buona serata, ciao. It’s a simple acknowledgment that another person is in the room, has entered the space. Even in the locker room at the gym, someone walks in and at least mumbles, “Salve,” “Hi.” Someone might hate their job, but they aren’t taking every moment of their interaction with you to communicate how much they hate their job. I’m not sure if it’s always a pride for what they do, but at least a respect for the job and themselves.

Italians love being out and about and amongst each other. They actually enjoy being around each other, their friends, interacting with strangers. It’s not always pleasant. But I think they love the yelling and arguing just as much, and they leave it there.

So no, it hurts me to say it, but I don’t miss Americans or America right now. Actually I miss Rome and the people. I wish I had the means to transport my family to Italy for Christmas. When I left it felt like the season was leading up to something really magical.

Oh, and Covid here is OFF THE CHAIN. Nothing like there with this new variant. There were literally five people I couldn’t meet here because they contracted Covid. Our family Christmas dinner was cancelled because two people have Covid. And I will be so pissed if I test positive for my flight back home. So pissed because this country has to politicize everything - including health.

by Anonymousreply 189December 23, 2021 5:35 AM

Yes, I got locked out of the overseas country I was living in close to two years ago. i hope to get back there next month. But find something here you enjoy and get involved with that. Italy is not going anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 190December 23, 2021 5:44 AM

Don’t jinx me R190. I haven’t been locked out. I’m just visiting and hopefully returning this Tuesday.

by Anonymousreply 191December 23, 2021 5:47 AM

I liked the trousers and the butt.

by Anonymousreply 192December 23, 2021 6:48 AM

r189 Funny yiou should mention that, because Mrkans are the only people in the world chatting up complete strangers in public, and Mrka is the only country on Earth where salespeople and cashiers ask you how your day was or what your plans are for the weekend. This would NEVER happen in Italy or anywhere else, for that matter

by Anonymousreply 193December 23, 2021 7:50 AM

You expressed exactly how I feel about living in America at this point, R189. The attitude or demeanor you described has been slowly creeping up for years, but it has reached an unlivable quality.

I was dating someone several years ago who I'd describe as very easy to get along with, etc. Then after several months with him I realized he hid everything inside of sarcasm, humor or "wit", Everything. I stayed with him a while longer just to make sure I was correct (and the sex was pretty good), I was. He could never say anything "straight" or genuine expression. It was always disguised. I broke up with him, but ever since then I can't help but notice how many people use this sort of communication all the time. And you're right, it's either that or just all out confrontational type or just ignoring others. It's very strange. It wasn't always like this, and not sure what happened or when it started to go in this direction, but I'm tired of dealing with it.

Looking into leaving the US as I type.

by Anonymousreply 194December 23, 2021 5:39 PM

R194, it’s hard to describe it exactly. But you’re right. It wasn’t always like this in the states. That’s why I say Italy reminds me of how people acted with each other when I was growing up in the 80s.

I think things started heading south when we began to worship Stupidity as a culture.

by Anonymousreply 195December 24, 2021 12:43 PM

If you’re missing Italy, read Still Life by Winman, it’s like a love letter to Florence.

by Anonymousreply 196December 24, 2021 12:54 PM

I think I figured out what the difference is. It comes down to one word - Manipulation. American culture - from advertising, to friendships, to relationships with each other - has mastered the art of manipulation to the point we don’t realize we do it anymore. Here we have to question everything - is this thing I’m looking at genuine, is what you are saying genuine or am I being manipulated. None of us want to be used or tricked. There is a fake civility that constantly leaves us to question - “why are you being so nice to me, because it can’t be that you’re just nice?”

Italy isn’t at this point yet. There are seeds of it there. But coming from America, especially NYC, where your Spidey sense are so honed, you can spot it a mile away. There, for the most part, people are still genuine in their intent and very awkward in their attempts to manipulate you. The con-men on the street almost seem quaint in their stories to get money from you. It’s like watching your ten year old nephew try and act like an adult, thinking he’s got it all figured out.

So all in all, because as Americans we are Olympians in our distrust of people in general, you can relax Italy, breathe a sigh of relief because the manipulation isn’t as insidious and it’s completely obvious. You can do there what we are too vigilant and terrified to do in America - let your guard down. And once you do that you realize how exhausting it has been living in a world of constantly questioning everyone and everything’s intentions around you.

by Anonymousreply 197December 24, 2021 1:43 PM

But R197, Mussolini was executed only 75 years ago, after accomplishing a more complete fascist state than anything that’s taken hold in America. If we’re all agreeing that the USA’s relative youth as a global culture is in some way primitive and vulgar, we can’t forget that those nations rich in history and culture have seen fairly recent descents into a political morass. American ‘manipulation’ seems positively quaint when compared to what occurred throughout Europe in the first half of the 20th century. and actually so recently that there are still first hand accounts from those who witnessed and suffered through it.

by Anonymousreply 198December 24, 2021 7:43 PM

You missed the point r198. I’m not talking about manipulation on a political level. I’m talking about manipulation on interpersonal levels. The conversation was about how we treat each other as citizens and how one experience in Italy is different than the one here.

We can get historic though. For a country as young as America, we certainly got off to a wrong start and were still caught up in the effects of a catastrophic humanitarian manipulation called slavery that lasted hundreds of years when Italy fell into fascism for a decade. And unlike America, Italy crucified the parties guilty for taking them down a dark path with a thousand rocks to the head. America as a nation hasn’t even apologized for slavery.

by Anonymousreply 199December 24, 2021 9:37 PM

Say what you will, he got the trains to run on time.

by Anonymousreply 200December 24, 2021 10:09 PM

Well then R199, , you’re exactly where you should be. As smug as a bug in a rug. I was simply pointing out that the recent past found Italy a fascist state, and your retort is about 18th century American slavey, something that Rome beat America on by thousands of years. But again, Americans are young and ugly and need to atone for their transgressions, while a country like Italy that helped invent slavery simply whiiff at it as ancient history.

So who's missing the point? And to think you spoke about ‘manipulation!’ What a joke. I can accept intellectual bankruptcy on a global level, but for it to become the norm at DL is a tragic.

by Anonymousreply 201December 24, 2021 10:21 PM

R201 is the exact definition of the New Ugly American - Aggressively bombastic. The hyperbole of it all…

Moussalini rose to power 100 years ago. I am talking about what my experience of America is today and you’re bringing up someone who became prime minister of Italy 100 years ago. I mention something going on concurrently at that time and you say I’m mentioning ancient history. The KKK was at its height in 1922 terrorizing and killing thousands of people. I’d definitely say that is an after affect of slavery America was reeling from.

Anyway. Since your point was never made and since I see you’re still struggling to make it, can we please just move on, given the fact that it’s SO off topic?

by Anonymousreply 202December 24, 2021 10:42 PM

And yes r201 even though slavery did exist in America in the 18th century, I was referring more to the 19th century version of it.

by Anonymousreply 203December 24, 2021 10:48 PM

So I win the debate on facts and context, and you win on emotionalism and personal opinion. How modern and American of you. By all means move on, you imbecile. Your fragility as a human being is so evident in your responses that it’s clear that you simply needed to escape. Italy wasn’t an answer, just a destination. You diminish me and negate me while absolutely rejecting to address the comments that stand your entire premise on its head.

I’m so sick of the laziness of you and your ilk. You haven’t run from a racist, superficial, manipulative country. You’ve run from yourself. And if your Italian ever gets to”anywhere near a conversational level, I’m sure they’ll tell you to fuck off.

Better start falling in love with another country.

Oh, and by the way, when a poster says ‘just move on’ it’s an unconscious statement of defeat. Keep raising the stakes. I’ll be back.

by Anonymousreply 204December 24, 2021 11:00 PM

Snazzy, you are not behaving in a manner anyone would call snazzy.

by Anonymousreply 205December 24, 2021 11:05 PM

Why is OP greyed out? I've enjoyed reading his posts.

by Anonymousreply 206December 29, 2021 1:19 PM

r206 Must be because of something he posted in another thread. How does that even happen, though? Does some internal filter get triggered or do other users report him en masse?

by Anonymousreply 207December 29, 2021 2:09 PM

Voglio imparare l'italiano rovinando il cazzo di OP.

by Anonymousreply 208December 29, 2021 3:47 PM

My life partner is Jewish and is trying to convince us to make aliyah. I've never been. Honestly not sure I could find Israel on the map? But I've heard its extremely gay friendly so I might give it a whirl.

by Anonymousreply 209December 29, 2021 3:49 PM

[quote]Why is OP greyed out? I've enjoyed reading his posts.

I don't see Op as greyed out. "Flames & Freaks" is set to "Asbestos Eyeballs" on my settings page. I assume someone FF his posts in this thread.

I'm considering staying in Italy for several months and enjoy reading this thread. The videos of walking in Rome can easily be a Youtube channel.

by Anonymousreply 210December 29, 2021 4:19 PM

This thread is great. Of course it had to be derailed by someone obnoxious like that Snazzy weirdo.

OP, get yourself a Youtube channel and start making money with videos covering different aspects of life in Italy (the culture, the language, the lifestyle etc).

by Anonymousreply 211December 29, 2021 4:29 PM

R211, OP and anyone else on this thread thinking I’m trying to be some sort of spoiler, I apologize. But I didn’t really think the general populace, let alone the assumed to be more informed DL members would not see the fundamental contradiction in this thread. And in another time I doubt I would be a minority opinion.

Italy is currently the most Nationalistic/fascist country in Europe. The right wing has taken root yet again, and for the OP to see Italy as some sort of escape from American ills is naive and foolish. That’s all I’m saying. If you simply want to be in another country with a different culture, fine. If you think you’re escaping the evangelical Christian USofA, your new home is a bastion of uptight catholicism that intrudes on the secular nature of the country in every way. The politics I’ve already pointed out. That’s it. I don’t think I’m obnoxious and I’m not considered ‘weird’ by those who know me.

I see the OP as a sort of Sally Bowles from Cabaret. An escapee to a country, unaware that she is in an even more precarious situation than her original home.

by Anonymousreply 212December 29, 2021 10:52 PM

Funny, no one ever thinks that it's he who is the obnoxious one.

by Anonymousreply 213December 29, 2021 11:15 PM

Yes R213, but I don’t live in a cave or a basement, I have a pretty wide circle of friends who find me anything but obnoxious,, and I make as much sense if not more than most of the people here. If standard english, common sense and a rudimentary understanding of history is a basis for being obnoxious though, then I guess I am.

I just write in DL voice circa 2005 instead of 2021. Different languages. Different attitudes. Different standards. I write a lot of very uncontroversial posts that get lots of very positive feedback. When I take a contrary position, even with even handed rebuttals and a clarifying apologetic tone, the anger from those feeling attacked remains at the same bitter level. Oh, and there is almost never an actual commentary of any of the content of my observations.

by Anonymousreply 214December 30, 2021 12:02 AM

[QUOTE] I just write in DL voice circa 2005 instead of 2021. Different languages. Different attitudes. Different standards.

Sure Jan. Were you cryogenically frozen for the past 16 years?

by Anonymousreply 215December 30, 2021 12:21 AM

r212, please see r205.

It's not your opinions I have a problem with. It's your relentlessness at repeating and expanding upon them that make me find you obnoxious. I'm not the OP, but I have been studying Italian for the past couple of years at the college level. Unlike you and OP, I have not lived in Italy, but I find the language so beautiful, the food so delicious, I would love to live there for at least a while.

OP has presented us with the attractive possibility of a life lived outside the United States. Indeed, this thread is one of my favorite DL threads of all time. Except for you and your insistence on presenting your contrarian viewpoint over and over and over. Your rage is noted. And noted. And noted.

Good day.

by Anonymousreply 216December 30, 2021 12:38 AM

How ironic, R215. ‘Sure Jan’ is pure 2005, but of the wannabes. And R216, Good Day? That anachronistic phrase is the verbal whiff of mothballs. Listen, NO ONE attacking me here will respond to the content of my posts.. I’m just some mean guy and you’re all protecting the OP leaving the ugly USA to make a better life in the even uglier Italia. So I’m out of here. But just remember. The shallowness of your discourse, and your emphatic inability to address the content of my posts speaks to your dishonesty and intellectual bankruptcy.

Happy reading. I’m off to talk about the fantastic performance of Company last night. And by the way, I had dinner at Becco. All hail Lidia. Ciao!

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by Anonymousreply 217December 30, 2021 12:55 AM

r217 I said "good day!"

by Anonymousreply 218December 30, 2021 12:59 AM

R216, I totally agree! This thread was so refreshing. It was about being in the moment, not caving into the cultural definition of “success”, and also hope. MARY!!!!

by Anonymousreply 219December 30, 2021 1:13 AM

Girls, girls you are both obnoxious American Cunts! Look OP sounds like he's having a good time exploring another country. Albeit his only frame of reference is NYC while completely forgetting the rest of the country exist outside that bubble like the west coast, south west, north west, and south east.

Italy is a beautiful country and the people are friendly, rich in history. But Snazzy is correct, Italy is just as backwards as the US in many ways when it comes to politics, and was easily influenced to an extreme level. It is changing, but they still have more than their share of Catholic domination over society and it's laws. They legalized same-sex unions, have gay prides but by the same token they have an annual protest the same day they have gay pride. And it's not just a small group of people.

Nice place to visit, maybe even live, but not everything there is a bed of roses. There are quite a few Italians from Italy that moved to the US in recent times because they see it as the future for them and a better way of life. There must be something about America that brings them here that OP is blind to.

by Anonymousreply 220December 30, 2021 1:27 AM

So do Italians have bigger dicks?

by Anonymousreply 221December 30, 2021 1:30 AM

Yes they does

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by Anonymousreply 222December 30, 2021 3:28 AM

Our expat is VERY new to the game and is being very poetic and navel gazing about his insights. For example the one at R197 about Americans needing to be so cynical and on their toes about "manipulation". And Italy being filled with village idiot street grifters and people living simple unguarded lives. OH HONEY. I've worked in 3 European countries for a long time and also in North Africa. WORKED. Go get a fucking job and tell about the simple pleasures of European simplicity. The working world is a fucking jungle in cities all over the globe, honey.

by Anonymousreply 223December 30, 2021 3:44 AM

That's a good point R223. In America, you can in fact get a job with a good resume and experience. In Europe, most places like Italy you really have to know someone to get a job. I was chatting with a guy who was on vacation from the EU and he literally couldn't believe you could get a job in the US without knowing someone. That's how I got all my jobs, including the first one out of college. He thought I was lying.

OP should try to get a job there, it would open his eyes a bit.

by Anonymousreply 224December 30, 2021 3:52 AM

[quote] Italy is currently the most Nationalistic/fascist country in Europe.

We're begging to differ, darling.

by Anonymousreply 225December 30, 2021 12:02 PM

What R224 seems to forget is that coming from America is a plus when it comes to getting a job in many parts of Europe, including Italy - unless you're some redneck village idiot, of course. But people here are usually at least a bit impressed when one says he has been living in New York. Europeans love NYC, it's like London, Paris, and Vienna, but without the toffs (London), the smugs (Paris) and the grumpies (Vienna).

by Anonymousreply 226December 30, 2021 12:13 PM

Hello OP here. I just got back to Italy yesterday by the skin of my teeth. Covid is crazy in the US. My husband actually caught Covid early on in his visit to his family for Christmas. The PCR test came back positive for our flight. But his antigen test came back negative. So we used that one.

I am not being naive in my outlook on life here. And my point of view isn't just based on my life in NYC. I grew up in Ohio, I am a midwestern boy at heart and that is where I spent my Christmas vacation. My experience of America is informed by my time in those two places and watching the news and the reports from the rest of the country. Of course there was at least one mass shooting while I was there, surprise, surprise. Covid was rampant but people still weren't wearing masks in stores in Ohio - Cleveland of all places the #2 city for the spread of the virus at the time. I fucking hate how people call the vaccine, "The Jab." It's so juvenile and detracts for the importance people in society have towards one another, to protect one another and it immediately poiticizes it. When I dropped my husband off in PA we passed countless "FUCK BIDEN" signs in front lawns. The news made it feel like the world was going to end next week with all of their doom and gloom to report. And of course the food was overpriced for what it is and pretty much tasteless. I enjoyed spending time with my family. But there was nothing I actually wanted to do or see in the country. And it was a relief to get back here. THAT is my personal experience. That is all I can go on. I can't say it is the same across the board for everyone. But from expats I have talked to here, my experience is not singular.

Of course Italy has its problems. I guess my relief comes from them not being MY problems. They aren't my country's problems for me to protest in the streets about and to make right. I am sure the citizens here feel the need to make their country better - just as I felt the need to fight for what's right in America. And having said that, all of this Catholic Church oppression Snazzy is talking about, I don't see or feel it. I am lucky enough to have been married outside of Italy and my marriage is recognized here. It is kind of obvious just from looking that most of the priests here are big ole queens anyway. There are gay couples here. I don't even feel any machismo push back, overt male posturing that a lot of American Males have around any gay issue here. It's not like once someone sees we are gay they feel the need to show they are 100% red blooded male, or how much they love pussy. You don't have that posturing here. My Italian friends throw their arm around me and kiss me on the cheek just as they would their straight friends. Men aren't judged by the affection they show each other or the emotions they exhibit. And from my memories of it in the states, the oppression I felt for being gay didn't just come from the fact that I couldn't get married to my husband at the time. It came from the feeling that I was not liked, simply for being gay. AND I still feel like that there. Not here.

by Anonymousreply 227December 30, 2021 5:05 PM

^ NYCGEO

I am BLACK, by the way. I guess I'll finally say it, even though I know now all of my insights will be viewed through that lens by some, written off as unrelatable to all except black people. But anyway, there is that. I grew tired of having to explain the rights and wrongs of the treatment of black people in America. I grew tired of seeing how most people don't care because it's not their problem even though it's an issue that poisons an entire country, not just the people it directly affects. I grew tired of wanting something to change that is clearly never going to change - something that is written into the DNA of the United States no matter how much lip services is paid to the idea of change. So instead of living under that cloud, I moved to a different country where I don't feel the need to EXPLAIN or CHANGE shit. I can live my life as a human being and if people have any issues with my color that is on them, not me and their beliefs aren't intertwined with a deep rooted very personal, painful history. And if it happened, I wouldn't be able to understand the nuances of anything racist directed toward me - so ignorance is truly bliss.

And as far as jobs - the ideal would be to find a job that pays American wages and live here. Finding a job as an American won't be hard - especially in any service industry. English is the key that will unlock many doors. A German traveling to Italy is not going to learn Italian, but they will expect the Italian to know English. So English is required for many jobs and employers tend to prefer native speakers for that reason. The trick is to find a job that will pay me close to what I want. So I am figuring out that part as well. But I do have time. I am not naive to the hurdles looking for work here present, but I am also aware of the advantages I have being American, AND being a Black American (since we seem to be afforded some level of coolness and fascination here) that I have.

by Anonymousreply 228December 30, 2021 5:10 PM

It is interesting how your husband decided to fly on a plane for 8 hours to a country that isn't his.

by Anonymousreply 229December 30, 2021 5:16 PM

I don't understand r229?

There is more to the covid testing story than I wrote here. But what country are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 230December 30, 2021 5:20 PM

Op, I am so jealous of and excited for you. I wished my whole life that I could just go live in another country, at least for a few years. The opportunity has never come up. Enjoy it!!

by Anonymousreply 231December 30, 2021 5:30 PM

[quote] The PCR test came back positive for our flight. But his antigen test came back negative. So we used that one.

And gave everyone covid on your flight...

by Anonymousreply 232December 30, 2021 5:32 PM

Your husband should be arrested. Flying with Covid and then traveling to a new country. You two are giving the term ugly American new meaning.

by Anonymousreply 233December 30, 2021 6:15 PM

R232 he tested positive earlier in the vacation. By the time we took our flight he was no longer contagious as shown by the second test we took before our flight. But it was close.

Anyway one thing I do find different here is how food is a way of life for everyone. Everyone knows how to cook for themselves, something. Just tonight we were headed to grocery story and there were was small group of fratty looking guys asking directions to someone on the street. They were cute and I remember thinking I wish they had asked me for directions. Only to see them later in the same grocery story with a basket full of ingredients for some meal they were gonna make themselves later that night. I saw a huge bottle of Peroni and some whole wheat (integrale) pasta and some cheeses and tomatoes. I don't even really know how to cook at 46. And here you have these 20 something year old boys shopping for the dinner they're gonna make tonight.

Here is a video of Merulana, the street we live off, with all of the Christmas lights up. We stopped by the Salumaria to pick up some Cotechino (sausage from Modena). Lentils and Cotechino is supposedly a good luck meal for New Years.

R231 there is always time. It took us a half a century to finally do it. I am not sure how long we are going to be here. But I know now at least until the results of the 2024 election. So we have time to get cozy and dig in. I must say tonight I feel like a giddy kid being back here tonight. Walking the streets, grocery shopping, seeing the lights, having a glass of wine

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by Anonymousreply 234December 30, 2021 6:26 PM

Antigen tests suck, only PCR tests are the real deal.

What about Covid tests in Italy? Easily available? For free in general or only for free for those vaccinated?

by Anonymousreply 235December 30, 2021 7:31 PM

R235 The test I got at the airport cost me $275! I tried to get it at other places but the lines were so long and by the time they were available the results wouldn't be back in time. $275! for rapid same day PCR test. Here in Italy, outside of each farmacia there is a testing tent, site. When I left Italy I needed a test. Because I don't have a tessera sanitaria yet (the free health care provided), I had to pay 22 euros. Otherwise it would have been free. The rapid PCR is probably 28 / 30 euro for people who don't have the healthcare. And you get your results 15 minutes later. I know it's free with health insurance in the states. But I don't have insurance in the states anymore. And I think you would be hard pressed right now to find a free testing site that can provide results in 15 minutes with the lines being as long as they are there.

by Anonymousreply 236December 30, 2021 8:11 PM

[quote]But people here are usually at least a bit impressed when one says he has been living in New York.

Why? What a terrible assumption to hang your hat on. And most Americans have never even been to NY. It's just one large city of dozens in the US.

by Anonymousreply 237December 31, 2021 6:48 AM

[quote]I fucking hate how people call the vaccine, "The Jab." It's so juvenile

That's a UK term. They have been using it for decades. It's just now catching on in the US but it didn't originate here. Lots of Brits have moved to the US in recent years so maybe that's why.

by Anonymousreply 238December 31, 2021 6:57 AM

[quote]The PCR test came back positive for our flight. But his antigen test came back negative. So we used that one.

Wait what? That's F-ed up, talk about selfish Americans. Everyone knows the PCR is the accurate test, not the other one. Even if the other one came back neg, what your husband and you did was unethical.

Thanks a lot Typhoid Mary. Or should I say Covid Karen?

by Anonymousreply 239December 31, 2021 7:01 AM

R237. You would be surprised when you travel outside of the US how many people identify the US as basically being New York. People harp on Americans not knowing world geography or understanding other cultures, but the opposite is also true. There are many people all over the world who have never lived anywhere outside of their own towns, villages, cities or countries who have no clue that there is anything in the US except NYC or possibly LA. Crazy, but it's true.

by Anonymousreply 240December 31, 2021 7:44 AM

But they all have passports.

by Anonymousreply 241December 31, 2021 8:24 AM

Not so crazy at all, R240. There are posters on Data Lounge who think the U.S. is nothing but NYC or possibly L.A., and beyond lie nothing but mutant toothless banjo players. The typical American lived within 18 miles of his mother; only 20% live more than a 2 hour drive away.

Of course there are people in cities and towns and villages around the world who have never been 200 km beyond the place where they were born and will die.

The percentage of Americans who have a passport is now near 42%, up abruptly from about 4% in 1990.

But what images does the U.S. export of its own geography?: NYC, L.A., Miami, Chicago, San Francisco, a glimpse of DC in the Capitol or the White House. Watch American export films and TV outside the U.S. and that's what you'll see, the same in music videos, and still images to a very large extent. And likewise what do Americans know of France but images of Paris, maybe a random turreted chateau someplace they never recognized the name of nor remembered? Or of Germany besides Berlin and Munich, or Peru other than Machu Picchu, the UK beyond London and a generic unlocated stately home or a craggy Scottish castle?

Why do we expect people who live in the Basque Country to know the nearest big town or state capitol of Bugtussle, Arkansas? Or ask that Americans should know whether Vitoria-Gasteiz is nearer to Bilbao or San Sebastián?

Geographic illiteracy and not knowing the county seat of Bugtussle are different things.

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by Anonymousreply 242December 31, 2021 9:01 AM

Just FYI I have lived in Ohio, Connecticut, Florida, DC, Arizona and New York. I have a pretty good picture, more than most, as to what America has to offer. I said more than most, not more than all.

It's interesting you bring that up r242, because that is one of my observations about Rome. Even though Rome is an international city, most of its citizens grew up here and have not lived anywhere else. Where as the US is more transient overall, here people grow up and live in the city they were born in - a lot of times still in the same home, with their parents, until they inherit it. That is the interesting paradox - the world comes to see Rome, but Romans themselves, for the most part haven't seen the world. Their world view is very limited. In my experience they are very much like native NYers who have never lived anywhere else where they think that their city is the center of the world, the way that they do things is the ONLY right way to do them, and they are very averse to doing things in new or different ways. So you have a lot of "country" like thinkers in this global city. I feel it is the trap of people who grow up in major cities that offer so much - this feeling that there is nothing else better to see outside of their limited experience.

by Anonymousreply 243December 31, 2021 9:38 AM

That's a good.point in comparing Romans and New Yorkers, R243. I often say that my friends and acquaintances from second and their tier American cities have more curiosity toward the world beyond and are better traveled than their NYC counterparts, who often have a sort of "72 Hours in..." attitude toward travel, trying to pack in the beat this and the best that and the hottest new five star hotel and be back at the office in NYC on Monday morning as usual, everything "curated" and quick. Americans from what are comparatively cow towns *know* there are things in other places worth seeing; New Yorkers seem very dubious about the proposition.

The family-inheritance-property matrix in Southern Europe definitely has its pull, and often (perhaps too often, one might argue) keeps people in one place -- not so terribly different outwardly than living with 18 miles of your mom on the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 244December 31, 2021 12:50 PM

Italian men can only travel so far from their mommies before the extended umbilical cord snaps them back close by.

by Anonymousreply 245December 31, 2021 6:21 PM

The Italians may all be dead soon being the OP's partner thinks it is okay to mingle with everyone when he has a positive Covid 19 test. I can't believe some people.

by Anonymousreply 246December 31, 2021 7:21 PM

Give it a rest R246. People love nothing more than to be overly dramatic when they are quite bored and boring at the same time. My husband tested negative before and after the flight. You can't get on a plane if you are covid positive. I really did want to get home though. America kinda sucked this time around. And I'm like in a second honeymoon now with Rome with this holiday season and no school. I literally said yesterday I am the happiest I have been in a long time. You really do feel a weight fall off when you get outside of the United States, as an American . Living in America now is a bit traumatic for its citizens. I know you all feel it. I felt it when I lived there, I felt it when I visited. There is a sadness. And what I am feeling may not necessarily be just because of Italy, although a lot of it is. What I am mostly feeling is a relief from not being there. That in and of itself makes me sad. But it's the truth.

by Anonymousreply 247December 31, 2021 7:39 PM

[quote] You can't get on a plane if you are covid positive. I really did want to get home though. America kinda sucked this time around

Which you should not have done. How ironic, the very type of selfish American you hate you are yourself and making excuses about it. How very typically American.

You will never fit it. Italians would not have had the same kind of self talk you just did here. They would have though about their paesano (country man) first and stayed off the plane instead of what you did "I really did want to get home" so I don't care about anyone else, it's no big deal to ME attitude.

by Anonymousreply 248December 31, 2021 7:56 PM

Full disclosure on the on the covid thing. I know I have been very flippant about it. But my husband got covid really bad at the beginning of the pandemic, March 2020. He lost his sense of taste and smell for very long time, over four months and it's still not fully back. When we were moving to Italy he had his second antibody test. His first test he had was in May 2020 and his levels were extremely high. That was the only way we knew we had it since tests were not widely available when he came down with covid. The following year, just before we moved, when he got tested again and his antibody levels were still very high. At the time he was cautioned against getting the vaccine because they didn't know how his body would react. Since living here though the world is pretty much shut down for those who don't have the greenness. AND you cannot get the vaccine here if you are not a resident with a tessera sanitaria. So we decided he would get the vaccine first thing on our trip back to the states. Or first day back in NYC he got vaccinated. That night he started coming down with chills and over the course of the next couple of days he got very sick, worse than the first time around. And it was a week after that that he got tested for our flight. So we are not even sure if he had covid or if it was a result of the vaccine and whatever remnants of his antibodies he had left. But we know he tested negative before the flight and when we got back home.

by Anonymousreply 249December 31, 2021 7:58 PM

R248 It's impossible for you to shit on my cornflakes. So you can hold the rest of that dump in.

by Anonymousreply 250December 31, 2021 8:00 PM

Are you trying to cover your tracks OP? You are not doing a very good job at it.

by Anonymousreply 251December 31, 2021 8:01 PM

I'm sitting in my apartment looking at my beautiful christmas tree, drinking negronis and Prosecco listening to Tame Impala and about the have lentils and cetochini for New Years which drops in two hours. Outside it is foggy and atmospheric and the kids are setting off firecrackers in the park. Life is good.

by Anonymousreply 252December 31, 2021 8:05 PM

Is you husband out spreading Covid while u gaze at your beautiful Xmas tree?

by Anonymousreply 253December 31, 2021 8:06 PM

cotechino - mi dispiace, sono ubriaco

by Anonymousreply 254December 31, 2021 8:08 PM

This is a wonderful thread, OP, thank you so much for starting it -- and thanks to the many posters who have given their insights. I am fortunate to hold dual citizenship by descent, US - Ireland, and have an EU passport, though I am American born. I think this means I would not have a significant visa problem if I moved to another EU country via Ireland.

My husband and I have been seriously considering a move to Europe if the GQP takes over in the next elections. My husband is Italian-American -- his grandparents Immigrated to the US n the early 1900s and then returned to Italy, though his father was born in the USA. He's never had any interest in pursuing European citizenship but the political climate now makes us think maybe he should get an EU passport as well. We are both eldergays, in our seventies, both retired with a comfortable retirement income and, happily, a substantial amount of savings.

I can't say that I would be excited to live in Ireland -- so rainy and far away from everything -- but we love Italy, and have visited there more than any other country. Your videos of Rome are enchanting to us because we are familiar with the neighborhoods you are walking through. However, most of our Italian friends live further north, Firenze, Lombardy, etc. If we moved to Rome, we wouldn't know anyone really, and that is a consideration when you are as old as we are. It is good to hear your accounts of settling into life there as 'locals'.

You provide encouragement that such a move is possible, and could give us a good quality of life for the next few years to come. Big questions for us are getting access to health care (though we are presently both in good health), and living as a longtime gay couple (50 years) in an unfamiliar environment.

by Anonymousreply 255January 1, 2022 12:05 AM

R255 you yourself are very encouraging, reading your description. You would have a much easier time moving here than we did if you have EU citizenship already. You can use that to live anywhere in the EU, even Italy without needing a Visa, I believe. And your partner having Italian heritage seals the deal. You could move here tomorrow if you wanted to and set up shop. There is also the Elective Visa, the "Retirement" Visa you guys would qualify for IF you need to apply for one, but I don't think you do.

As far as healthcare all you need to do is establish residency here, which again would be easier for you than us. And once you do that you can get your tessera sanitaria which is the free healthcare system here. You also have the option to get insurance yourself on top of that or visit doctors of your choosing who might not take healthcare here. It is similar to the setup in America that way but at least you have a free foundation for all of your prescriptions, general doctor visits and emergency procedures. A friend of ours had a sick child who needed surgery and she said an operation that would have bankrupted her in the States was completely paid for here. It is such peace of mind knowing you don't have to choose between death or poverty just to survive.

Rome is a beautiful city. BUT it is definitely not an easy city to get around for those who are not used to walking. It is the city built on seven hills, and trust me you feel them walking around. I would say it is akin to walking in San Francisco. I've gotten used to it. Sometimes I say, "Do I want to take the 100 steps up to get home or do I want to do the 45 degree incline hill for half a mile?" That was my biggest worry for my mom, who is 73, when she visited - the getting around. Because you want to WALK in Rome. You want the city to reveal itself to you that way. Speeding around in a car is not the same, it's a different experience entirely. But she did it, she was a trooper. But as a way of life, I am not sure if it's something you'd want. Florence, Firenze, is beautiful too and only a 1.5 hour train ride from Rome we found out on our way to Venice. It's really close and much more walkable, since it is mostly flat.

You would have such a beautiful life here. Your retirement money would go further than you can imagine. Once the first major experiences of setting up a home here are through, you'd be amazed at how far your money goes. You could easily live off of $2500 a month for two people. And Rome is one of the more expensive cities. Florence is less expensive than Rome to live in even. And once you're here, flights to anywhere in the area can be so inexpensive, it's ridiculous. A friend of ours and her husband took their daughters to Morocco one weekend - their tickets with the special were 8 euro each. 8! RyanAir and Easyjet have specials to every major European city - Paris for 16 euro.

I couldn't encourage you more to just do it. Plan of course, take your time. But plan to do it. I think you and your husband would be very happy living here. I remember this time last year when we were in NYC, we we had definitely started the process of moving, there was a Tame Impala song that we listened over and over again - One more Year. We were giving NYC One more Year and that was it, we were out. The planning ahead is what makes it much easier. But give yourself One More Year.

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by Anonymousreply 256January 1, 2022 7:17 AM

Is it like an Elena Ferrante novel, OP?

by Anonymousreply 257January 1, 2022 1:40 PM

I don't know her either...

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by Anonymousreply 258January 1, 2022 1:43 PM

Here is a video of a Sunday walk to San Giovani just east of Esquilino where we live. It's one of the nicer walks because it doesn't require you to go up or down a major hill. It's a casual passeggiata. We were headed to this place called Coin which is a smallish department store that has a good kitchen, home goods section. But they didn't have what we wanted so we just ended up at Zara.

The obelisk is one of the ancient ones constructed in 1400 BC and pillaged from Egypt by the Romans almost 2000 years ago. You can see the hieroglyphics along the side. This is the tallest obelisk in Italy and was originally erected close to the Circus Maximus in 400 AD. Then a pope had it moved to its current spot around 1580 and put a cross on top. The church is Archbasilica of Saint John Lateran - the oldest public church in Rome and the oldest Basilica in the western world, founded in 324 AD. The facade was finished around 1735.

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by Anonymousreply 259January 2, 2022 2:57 PM

San Giovanni in Laterno is one of my favorite places. The exterior is fine but not stellar by Roman standards; the interior, however, is extraordinary, and the ceiling better.

What areas in the center would be your favorite to live in, OP?

by Anonymousreply 260January 2, 2022 5:35 PM

R260 Isn’t that where Michaelangelo’s Moses is located?

by Anonymousreply 261January 2, 2022 8:22 PM

R261. That is in San Pietro in Vincoli (more or less between the Domus Aurea and the Palazzo del Quirinale.)

by Anonymousreply 262January 2, 2022 9:25 PM

Show us some gay bars OP. I know for a fact they have some. One of the most popular ones is down the street from the Colosseum. Show us what gay life is like, not just generic Rome.

by Anonymousreply 263January 2, 2022 9:56 PM

I want to see more of Rome -- intertwined with Roman gay stories.

"So what you can see here is the Domus Aurea, the palace Nero had himself built to enjoy hot Roman twinks. Btw, not far away from here is the place where Marc Anthony blew Caesar so hard on the Ides of March Caesar almost forgot to go to the Senate"

by Anonymousreply 264January 2, 2022 11:17 PM

Its funny you say that R260, I find showing gay bars to be pretty generic compared to a walk down through San Giovani, things I don’t see that often. But I think there is already a video of that. There are two gay bars notably - My Bar and Coming Out in the shadow of the colosseum. But gay life in Rome, like any major city, isn’t so ghetto-ized, it’s all over from Pignetto to Trastevere. I see gay couples, friends, everywhere. At those two gay bars mentioned above you’ll find a lot of tourist who want to see a gay bar in Rome. But there are bars, clubs, sex clubs and bathhouses all over. It’s Funny, since english is usually used pretty brusquely with no filter here, this one Spa by me proudly advertises their “Gloryholes” along with the massages they offer.

But this following vid is of two cute gays in Villa Borghese this summer. The guy spots me filming I think. I’m trying to figure out if he gives me the finger or not.

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by Anonymousreply 265January 3, 2022 10:44 AM

Those guys were hot, show us more of that. You say Italian gays are everywhere, show us the money!

by Anonymousreply 266January 3, 2022 11:52 AM

^^^ Do you mean money shot? Are you encouraging him to start making amateur porn with Italian young men for his new business venture and to support his life in Rome?

by Anonymousreply 267January 3, 2022 6:44 PM

Interesting you say that r266. I do have a lot of pics. But there was this one guy in particular I was obsessed with. My apartment has a balcony that faces a courtyard. The building itself is an old converted convent. But there was this construction guy working on the demolition and remodelling of the condo directly across the courtyard from mine. He was there every day from 8AM to about 4:30PM. At a certain point for weeks it was just him demolition the place. Of course he was taking his time with no oversight, always on his phone. But I swear he was an exhibitionist. He would see me out on my balcony and he would find a way to stretch just so, so his shirt would lift up showing off his tight body. He would get changed for the day in the private front small yard of this condo, down to his underwear and put on his street clothes. I am not saying he was into me, but he was definitely into being watched in this way. I thought it was all in my head, but it kept happening again and again, to where I just enjoyed anytime he wanted to show any skin. He was bearded but had the kind of tight natural body you only have in your 20s. I would rush home back to the gym and make sure to eat my lunch out on the balcony. And there he would be, almost coming to action when he knew he had an audience. And he would always briefly check in to see if eyes were still on him. I am not sure if I was the only one watching him, but he definitely was hot. One time even he was relaxing on the balcony, laying back his shirt almost scrunched up to his nipples, rubbing his belly as he text on the phone. The first two pics are close up of him. The third is a blurry shot of when he was kicking back on the balcony. But he literally would drive me to distraction every day. And this went on for weeks this summer.

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by Anonymousreply 268January 3, 2022 8:18 PM

Another close up shot of construction boy.

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by Anonymousreply 269January 3, 2022 8:19 PM

Blurry shot of construction boy laying back enjoying his time alone. It came to a point where I was like what are you doing? What do you want me to do? Just watch? I was gonna offer my place to shower after work. Never got the guts to say anything and I just enjoyed it for what it was.

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by Anonymousreply 270January 3, 2022 8:21 PM

I wonder what he might feel tempted to do, r270 r269 r268, if you were to hire him to do some work on your apartment.

by Anonymousreply 271January 3, 2022 10:11 PM

Today was a weird walk indeed. My husband and I for the longest time have wanted to see Birnini's sculpture, The Ecstasy of St. Teresa at The Church of Santa Maria della Vittoria, so we decided to go there today. On the way up to the church the women ahead of us stopped and wouldn't go in, as you see right before the video goes out. We made ourselves around them and then saw why. Right there in the entrance of the church, to the left, was a homeless man laying on his back, motionless. The priests were standing over him. We weren't sure what was going on. You see stuff like that all the time in NYC, homeless people laid out in the middle of the sidewalk. But soon after, the priests were asking everyone to leave as they called emergency services and that's when we knew he was actually dead. I didn't want to leave at that point because I didn't want to walk past him again, but we did. I didn't want to look, but I glanced over quickly and saw his hand raised up, frozen, almost pointing upwards. My take away in that moment was his hand, in that position, looked like a Birnini sculpture itself. The poor man probably knew he was dying and wanted to die inside of a church. The Church had JUST opened back up after lunch at 3:30pm and he must have stumbled in shortly after that.

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by Anonymousreply 272January 8, 2022 8:52 PM

Aren't you two suppose to be in quarantine from Covid?

by Anonymousreply 273January 8, 2022 10:07 PM

What quarantine in 2022 lasts 10 days 273?

by Anonymousreply 274January 8, 2022 10:29 PM

OP, when you take video, you have to turn the camera sideways/landscape. It is stupid to be posting videos that are vertical only. Scemo. Grazie.

by Anonymousreply 275January 9, 2022 1:03 AM

I hear you r275. It’s just easier walking with a camera vertical and people freak out less when they think they are being recorded. It’s much easier to walk like I’m actually on my phone and NOT recording everyone and everything in sight. Plus being black here AND looking somewhat middle eastern I don’t want to come off as a terrorist scoping out sites. I get enough looks from the polizia as it is. I’ve already been stopped once and cross checked on the terrorist watch list WITHOUT my phone. So…

by Anonymousreply 276January 9, 2022 10:20 AM

R275: For a sweeping vista or a corn field in Iowa or a selfie of you and your 53 closest friends in front of the Fontana di Trevi, a horizontal/landscape format is better. But for much of Rome and dense cities of narrow streets, a vertical format makes a more architectural frame — and also for a policeman's ass (to steal an exhibit from OP's catalogue.)

A small thing OP, but it's "Bernini" with an "e" as the initial vowel.

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by Anonymousreply 277January 9, 2022 10:29 AM

Thank you r277. Yes, my computer kept autocorrecting it to the point where I thought that was how it was spelled. And I am glad you are making use of the catalogue. That is one of my fave pictures.

by Anonymousreply 278January 9, 2022 1:14 PM

I've seen tons of films about the Italian mafia in the US. And the guys always speak in this accent that sometimes is so overdone and comical. So I'm wondering if Italian guys, when speaking Italian, do that really exaggerated "mama MIIIIIaaa" thing, where they really accent certain syllables and draw them out?

by Anonymousreply 279January 15, 2022 11:40 PM

There are so many different dialects in Italy r279 it's mind boggling. As a country, Italy is younger than the United States. Italy was finally unified in 1861 I believe. Before then they were just different states with influences from so many different cultures that ruled over them. There are now about 20 regions, states in Italy and each region has a handful of their own different dialects. This is why Italians gesticulate so much because a certain sign language developed along with the language so people could understand each other from region to region. This short hand sign language is a very real thing that we actually have taken days in class to learn. But yes, overall the Italian language is very melodic and sing-songy compared to English. Italians enunciate their words much more so than Americans or English speakers, which can go to the extreme of being spoken without moving your mouth at all, or very little (think New England Wasp). The Italian you hear in mafia movies reflects more the Neapolitan or Sicilian dialect, where most the Italians who immigrated to the United States in the early 20th Century come from. Italian is actually a very fun language to learn and speak if you are into languages because you can really throw yourself into it without fearing being too dramatic - because Italy itself is very dramatic.

If you wanna see a real anxiety ridden modern show about the actual Mafia in Italy, check out Gomorrah on HBO Max. It takes place in Naples and is based on the crime families there and the modern day drug trade. Me personally, I am ambivalent to the presence the Mafia here. Where as it can be a cancer on business - things like terrorism, violent assaults in general really don't exist here as much as they do in the states, just because it wouldn't be tolerated. This is especially true for terrorism which would cut into tourism, which is a huge business here. And you don't have random violent assaults against strangers. The most you'll hear about is a wallet, purse being stolen, mugging. When violent crimes happen it's usually a crime of passion between a husband or wife, family members. There are no mass shootings, psychos pushing people onto the tracks, random shootings, stabbings. Any violence that would impinge on tourism is immediately shut down. Unlike Germany's open arm policy to refugees, Italy begrudgingly took their allotted EU advised share, and even kicked that down the field as far as possible.

And yes, "Mamma Mia" is a real thing too, it's not a stereotype. I hear it all the time. Volare is a beloved Italian song and you hear it played. And the guy in the following video is Gay, in case you're wondering, for those of you who think they don't exist or are in hiding in Italy.

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by Anonymousreply 280January 16, 2022 9:01 AM

We jumped on the subway to head to Eataly to do some shopping. Even here Eataly still has some of the best produce from all different regions. Anyway, we get the train at the Il Colosseo and I wanted to show you guys what it's like on a Saturday with everyone hanging out. It really is a hangout spot for the youngins in Rome. It's a quick video, beautiful Spring like day here in Rome. There are some cute boys throughout.

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by Anonymousreply 281January 16, 2022 8:29 PM

OP Thank you for this post, I actually joined DL just to thank you. I used to travel to Italy yearly before Covid, and have always considered moving there. I've shared this post with friends who are thinking the same.

by Anonymousreply 282January 19, 2022 4:19 PM

Please, stay right where you are. We don't need any more wokes, libturds and demonrats polluting this country than we already have. Go take your 10 shots IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY and fuck off

by Anonymousreply 283January 20, 2022 4:09 PM

Great thread OP, ignore the few idiots posting here. I've learned a lot and your writing style is conversational and fun.

by Anonymousreply 284January 20, 2022 5:16 PM

Wow, that is so awesome r282. I really appreciate that and it's a great compliment. If you have any questions, just ask me. I think I started this thread to try and make sense of it all for myself through other people's perspectives. I still feel I am at the very beginning of everything, having been here less than a year. But when I look back, there is a lot of information, from even before I moved here, that I can share if anyone else is thinking of doing the same.

by Anonymousreply 285January 20, 2022 9:59 PM

I'm so impressed by how hard you are trying to assimilate and learn the language. I have so many fond memories in Rome, including being invited to a house party to sing Karaoke. When would that ever happen in the US? I don't even like singing, but it was so cool to be invited and see their home and meet their friends. Keep posting!

by Anonymousreply 286January 25, 2022 4:57 PM

A friend of mine said that he loved visiting Italy but out of all the cities he visited, he hated Rome. He said it was riddled with graffiti, crime and gypsies. He hated the food too. I am guessing he was used to American Italian. He was Jewish.

by Anonymousreply 287January 26, 2022 1:39 AM

R286 I was just wondering if I should keep posting. I walk in pretty much the same areas everyday, as most people do. And I figure I have shown pretty much whatever I always see already. It's always been a dream of mine to learn another language, so I am trying my best to learn. It is actually coming along slowly, (piano, piano) as they say but I am definitely understanding more and communicate when I need to. I just went to the ferramenta (hardware store) today and got some screws and anchors for some pictures I need to hang. Then I ducked my head into an alteration shop nextdoor to ask the woman if she could fix a torn sleeve on a sweater I have. I did that all in Italian. I am not trying to sound Italian. Sounding like an American speaking Italian is fine enough for me. When I lived in NYC, I heard so many different dialects and accents speaking English, I became deaf to them. I just heard the English spoken. So I have to go easy on myself and not try to sound like something I am not. And it's OK. Americans have a caché here - especially Americans trying to speak Italian. It's "carino," cute to them. And again they always question why in the hell I want to learn the language when most of them WISH they spoke English fluently. It may all be in my head, but the only time I think I run into frustration from someone when I speak Italian seems to be from them being frustrated they can't speak English - like I'M expecting them to speak it. But no, I try to let them know I WANT to speak in Italian - I'm here in your country. Don't feel bad for not speaking my language.

and r287, your friend simply doesn't like big cities. I happen to love big cities. There is graffiti everywhere except respectfully on ancient monuments or churches. I love it because a lot of it is street art or a lot of it just becomes part of the patina of the city. There is just so much of it, but it doesn't feel dangerous or run down. Quite frankly it's rather cool and adds depth and dimension to an ancient city where graffiti goes back to its origins three thousand years ago. GRAFFITI is an Italian word after all. It comes from GRAFFIO which is Scratch in Italian. So Graffiti literally means Scratches, which is exactly what people did on the ancient walls of Rome.

As far as gypsies and crime, I hardly see that here. I mean if your friend was wandering around the colosseum, imperial forum, dining out steps from the Trevi fountain and the usual tourist traps, of course you're gonna get grifters. But that's gonna happen in any major tourist destination city. And again, having come from NYC the gypsies, africans are quaint, "Hey, where you from, Africa?" Or they are selling stuff animals or phone chargers. I would imagine your friend walked around the same small areas MOST tourist walk in. But saying Rome is full of crime just isn't true. No one is shot, no one is stabbed, at the most mugged by the train station, but I don't even know how often that happens. It has to be the safest major city in the world. Random people aren't getting pushed on to subway tracks or being gunned down in the streets, or raped in their building hallways, apartments aren't being broken into and stores aren't being robbed. So I am not sure what your friend experienced.

by Anonymousreply 288January 27, 2022 3:37 PM

can someone recommend a good free site to easily post pictures too? All the ones I seem to remember are either no longer free, gone or more of a pain in the ass than they were before.

by Anonymousreply 289January 27, 2022 3:38 PM

[quote] I was just wondering if I should keep posting. I walk in pretty much the same areas everyday,

Yes, but you don't see pics like that guy lifting up his shirt every day. It's not where you walk it's what's happening that counts. More hot guys please.

by Anonymousreply 290January 27, 2022 11:58 PM

Today Maria Elisabetta Alberti Casellati Serbelloni Mazzanti Viendalmare will be elected President of the Republic, Draghistan will fall, new elections will be held in the spring, Sora Gioggiah Meloni will win them and Matteo Salvini will be back to being Minister of Internal Affairs. To the delight of them stupid wokes, libturds and demonrats lol

by Anonymousreply 291January 28, 2022 8:45 AM

They should just name Sylvia Poggioli Queen of Italy and be done with it.

by Anonymousreply 292January 28, 2022 11:52 AM

How'd you tell the future r291? Just watching the elections on La Sette now and Castaletti 382 votes. It seems like all the abstainers yesterday were voting for Castaletti today. In Italy, as I understand it, there is a Prime Minister and President. The people elect the Prime Minister while the "parliament" elects the president.

by Anonymousreply 293January 28, 2022 12:54 PM

I got to see my first Flyover today. Mattarella was sworn is as president and then he stopped by Piazza Venezia to lay a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. My husband and I had actually planned on walking to see the Pantheon again. We hadn't seen it inside since our first trip here in 2017. This time of year there is virtually no line to get in. It just so happened on our way back home through Piazza Venezia that we stopped and watched the proceedings. I am glad we didn't know how long it would take because we were standing for about 2 hours waiting to see. After a while you just can't leave because you've already been there so long and I was sure there was going to be a Flyover which I really wanted to see in person.

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by Anonymousreply 294February 3, 2022 5:51 PM

It's not everyday you get to see the President. This was pretty cool I must say.

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by Anonymousreply 295February 3, 2022 6:16 PM

This young guy was quite dapper. He was one of the hundreds of guards for the president. I know in the states, the idea of a soldier is kinda hot, when you see a bunch of them lined up. But then you zoom in and get the truth of the matter. Maybe one interesting one out of 10. But I was shocked by how many of these guys, and there were hundreds of them, were actually handsome in their own way.

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by Anonymousreply 296February 5, 2022 5:22 AM

Check out the Swiss Guards at the Vatican OP. Really HOT! It's like a requirement.

by Anonymousreply 297February 7, 2022 2:06 AM

R297 Of course the Swiss Guards look great, Michaelangelo designed their uniform and he knew his way around the male figure and how to make them look fantastic.

by Anonymousreply 298February 7, 2022 2:29 AM

Half of them look like models.

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by Anonymousreply 299February 7, 2022 8:02 AM

Sunday Afternoon in Village Borghese. Everyone was excited to be out today. I can't wait for spring time here. It was a just a lovely day walking around. All the time saying, you just can't do this in NYC - walk around casually, sit out anywhere casually, just relax and enjoy the day - without being pestered by someone or something, without feeling the need to keep it "moving along."

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by Anonymousreply 300February 13, 2022 5:58 PM

Walk through the Roman / Imperial Forum and past the Colosseum on my way home from the gym. I think the boys in Italy singlehandedly keep the white sneaker business in business.

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by Anonymousreply 301February 13, 2022 6:20 PM

Hot Guy on the phone. I feel like a creeper capturing some of these pics. But sometimes someone is too sexy not to. This guy, and its hard to pick up in a photo, but the way he walked, moved, his deep voice and the way he spoke Italian was so hot to me.

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by Anonymousreply 302February 13, 2022 6:23 PM

Italy has been politically polarized for far longer than the US. I find it typically ignorant of Americans to know this.

by Anonymousreply 303February 14, 2022 2:26 AM

I thought they were very progressive politically, they were electing porn stars for prominent roles in government decades ago?

by Anonymousreply 304February 14, 2022 2:43 AM

what the hell is R303 saying? And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

by Anonymousreply 305February 14, 2022 6:50 AM

R303 is pointing out it's not all a bed of roses Rose.

by Anonymousreply 306February 14, 2022 12:09 PM

[quote] It was a just a lovely day walking around. All the time saying, you just can't do this in NYC, walk around casually, sit out anywhere casually, just relax and enjoy the day - without being pestered by someone or something, without feeling the need to keep it "moving along."

You realize that just NYC problem right? Most places in America you can walk around without that rushed feeling you guys from NYC seem to LOVE bragging about when describing how "vibrant" the city is. In fact even in other big cities like LA or SF I don't feel rushed.

by Anonymousreply 307February 14, 2022 12:19 PM

Yes, but r307 who in the hell is really walking around LA. And yes, I do feel there are other cities that are lovely to walk around. But I didn't live in those places. I lived in NYC. So that is my basis for comparison. Don't take it personally. But I will say I would rather have this feeling in Rome, then say a Salt Lake City Utah.

and R306, I think a lot of people are bringing their own personal issues into this. I not once said it was a bed of roses. But if we are going to discuss facts, Italy has only been a united country since 1861, right during the lead up to the American Civil War. So I would gather to say, technically the United States has been politically divided much longer than Italy as a country ever has. And to this date, doesn't America have places turning back Gay Rights, Women's Rights, gerrymandering districts to stack the decks for political purposes? There are actual serious articles on an impending new American Civil War, or at least a separation. So, anything going on in Italy PALES in comparison to that, I would say. America comes across as a ticking time bomb right now to the rest of the world.

by Anonymousreply 308February 14, 2022 5:03 PM

Italy doesn't have gay rights, stupid. If you were talking about somewhere that does, you might have a point. But now you're just a dog barking and the caravan has moved on.

by Anonymousreply 309February 15, 2022 5:53 AM

[quote]Yes, but [R307] who in the hell is really walking around LA.

You haven't lived in LA have you? It's not an 80's song.

by Anonymousreply 310February 15, 2022 10:35 AM

I've been to LA yes R310, lived there for a short, very short time. And I walked around and it felt weird, because no one was walking around. Walking around the mall, or down one strip in West Hollywood is not walking around a city.

And I see r309 has taken a continuing education creative writing course. I guess he missed the module about mixing metaphors and how to avoid such mistakes. A dog barking that's been left behind by a caravan? What is this, a Chuck Wagon dog food commercial? I don't even know where to begin with that.

Anyway, some people are just disgruntled and tedious. No sense in humoring them past the point of personal entertainment. From what I have seen on television here, the emerging artist, Papa Francesco's statements, the men on the streets in general, gay is completely OK here. There seems to be an unspoken sense that man on man action existed in Rome as matter of course way before the Church even existed. Sanremo was the gayest televised event I have seen ever, including transexual hosts and gays upon gays performing. For godsake, the song that won is called Brividi - the goosebumps two men falling for each other. When America has a number one song that's a LOVE song between two men, and not just a flashy video of a gay kid getting fucked by the devil, let me know.

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by Anonymousreply 311February 15, 2022 6:40 PM

And I'll never stop posting this. This video gets me horny every time.

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by Anonymousreply 312February 15, 2022 6:47 PM

Italy's attitude towards gays is definitely shifting. It's interesting living here. I think people who have always been comfortable about homosexuality are coming out of the closet themselves. And I find a good number of people interested in the fact that my husband and I are so comfortable being open, out. It actually comes across as a sign of masculinity standing in your own truth in the face of possible societal backlash. This was the cover of Vanity Fair this month.

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by Anonymousreply 313February 23, 2022 9:47 PM

That dude is only half Italian, his father was Egyptian.

by Anonymousreply 314February 24, 2022 5:34 AM

[quote]That dude is only half Italian, his father was Egyptian.

And what? Do you have some kind of one-drop theory you'd like to share?

His nationality is Italian; he considers himself Catholic. He was born, Alessandro Mahmood, in Milan, to an Italian mother who raised him in Italy. Her mother divorced his father when their child was five. He wrote a song about his father speaking to him in Arabic, a language he doesn't speak.

What more does someone need to be Italian?

by Anonymousreply 315February 24, 2022 7:42 AM

What's the mood like now OP with the war going on?

by Anonymousreply 316March 4, 2022 4:37 PM

Hey r316, The feeling is pretty much what I imagine it is like in the USA. Everyone is watching concerned. Italy is still some distance from what is going on. Yet there IS this overall feeling that this is happening in Europe, that everyone has seen this before. That would be the main difference between the US and here it seems. There is more of a feeling of complete disbelief that this type of warfare is happening in 2022, something Europe thought it left behind in the 20th Century.

by Anonymousreply 317March 10, 2022 6:27 PM

Italy is the only country on Earth (except for maybe Ukraine itself) to have declared a state of emergency (UNTIL DECEMBER 31ST, NO LESS!!!) over a war that doesn't have concern it

by Anonymousreply 318March 11, 2022 5:14 AM

R318 The state of emergency thing is just to continue the mask mandate indoors for longer. The indoor mask mandate has not dropped once since the beginning of covid. And I would imagine it probably has something to do with Ukranian immigrants who will be flooding from the north some time soon.

by Anonymousreply 319March 13, 2022 12:46 PM

Covid really did a number on poor Italy and their fear of all things disease. I am here trying to learn a language in class through a mask. I must say I have been doing pretty well. I have felt my brain click into the next level of understanding. It is an imperceptible feeling, mood shift where I just feel slightly more confident engaging people working in stores, asking questions, running every day errands. I can understand what they are talking about on the news. Although I have pretty given up any hope of understanding the young youfs in the street.

Il mio Italiano non è mica male a questo punto. Tra l'altro Grinder mi ha aiutato proprio a imparare la lingua anche.

by Anonymousreply 320March 13, 2022 12:58 PM

Rome celebrates her 2775 birthday.

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by Anonymousreply 321April 25, 2022 6:42 AM

Shhhh, R316. You might upset Joy Behar!

by Anonymousreply 322April 25, 2022 9:29 AM

Yesterday was the Gay Pride Parade in Rome. It was a beautiful day actually and my first time experiencing it. I moved here the week after it happened last year. I have a feeling it wasn't as big of an event last year considering Italy was still in the grips of the pandemic, just starting to figure a way out of it. But yesterday it was as if Covid never even happened. The turnout was incredible. The route itself was a big circle around the city starting out by Piazza della Repubblica, winding down Cavour and up by Santa Maria Maggiore, then down Merulana to Lubricana, past the Colosseum and up through the Forum to Piazza Venezia. Anyone wondering what the gay scene was like in Rome would have a good idea about it from yesterday. People were happy to be out, to be seen, to be with each other. Everyone is allowed to walk in the parade, you just join it wherever you want and just walk. It was a lot of fun.

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by Anonymousreply 323June 12, 2022 1:00 PM

More videos of the Day.

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by Anonymousreply 324June 12, 2022 1:04 PM

The parade down Merulana right past my apartment.

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by Anonymousreply 325June 12, 2022 1:09 PM

Love is Love

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by Anonymousreply 326June 12, 2022 1:12 PM

[quote]I worked at the US Embassy in Rome for six months in 1980. Before that, I'd never been out of the US. I remember being frustrated by how inefficient everything was. I'm sure it's improved in the past 20 years, but I wonder.

It has in fact improved a lot, especially under the current reformist PM. Italy in 1980 was a whole different country.

Also, it's been forty years since then, not twenty.

by Anonymousreply 327June 12, 2022 1:47 PM

How much has your Italian improved in the year? On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being able to understand locals well/communicate, where were you then and now?

Grazie

by Anonymousreply 328July 6, 2022 5:40 AM

Funny you ask that R328, I was just thinking about that today since it has been just over a year now. Considering the fact that I knew very little Italian before moving here, I'd say I am doing pretty well. I realized there are four different levels to speaking a language fluently - Learning, Understanding, Knowing, Feeling. I am still at the learning, understanding phase. I would say I am at a 4/5 maybe. I am probably better than that, but I feel like I have so much to learn and you kind of beat yourself up everyday, that you can be doing more. I have been in school everyday. I have learned about 80% of what there is to learn in a language. I feel now school everyday is holding me back from just jumping in, which is what I need to do now. I need to start working and dive in and start finding my own everyday Italian that I use. I don't think 100% fluency will ever be mine. Every language is so complex, layered, colloquial - ESPECIALLY Roman Italian. I realized trying to learn Italian in Rome is like moving to Brooklyn and learning English. The dialect is so particular to this area, and difficult.

how Mo s’è fatta ‘na certa (Roman) = è piuttosto tardi (Italian) = It's quite late, or time to go home - I'll never know.

The Italian in Florence and Milan and more Northern cities tends to be much clearer and easier for someone foreign to understand. And there are a TON of American expats in Florence too.

by Anonymousreply 329July 6, 2022 4:26 PM

I always forget to sign my posts. R329 here...

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by Anonymousreply 330July 6, 2022 4:31 PM

We went to the Gallerie degli Uffizi in Florence back in June and got to see some of the masterworks from Botticelli, Caravaggio and Michelangelo. This Sacrifice of Isaac by Caravaggio was quite power and suggestive. The way the picture is framed, it looks like the boy is getting raped. The Birth of Venus and Primavera by Botticelli are in the links as well.

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by Anonymousreply 331July 6, 2022 4:39 PM

The other works...

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by Anonymousreply 332July 6, 2022 4:40 PM

The pseudosanitary tyranny called Draghistan is finally over and now Sister Georgia Watermelons will take the country's reigns in October, much to them libturds' chagrin. Ouchhhh

by Anonymousreply 333July 20, 2022 9:24 PM

Interesting

by Anonymousreply 334August 20, 2022 4:24 PM

Summer in Italy is about traveling all around to beautiful places. We had never been to Sicily before and have wanted to for a while. We decided to go to Ortigia in Siracusa and then to Taormina for a day. These are some pics from our trip. It was terribly hot and terribly beautiful. There just happened to be a big music festival the weekend we planned with Tangerine Dream - The Ortigia Sound System. So it was an interesting mix of locals, vacation Italians and music festival people. I would definitely go back. There is a lot to explore in Sicily. But we still need to make it to Puglia and see Sardinia at some point. Traveling within Italy is doable for most people, and not anything what it's like expense wise in the United States - between the trains, the food, the hotels. You can have a decent four day mini vacation for less than $800 combined.

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by Anonymousreply 335September 1, 2022 9:34 PM

Lovely photos, OP/R355. The heat can intensify the beauty of things, especially in the late summer light. I'm curious to see Palermo in the coming year as my intro to Sicily.

by Anonymousreply 336September 1, 2022 9:55 PM

Are you ready for Sister Georgia Watermelons to start running the country by the end of the month? 😏 Shouldn't you libturds move for ghewd? 🤣

by Anonymousreply 337September 2, 2022 2:02 AM

we heard you the first time R337 and chose not to respond. I was just in the United States for three weeks visiting family. The political climate there is insane. I'll take this.

by Anonymousreply 338September 2, 2022 8:41 AM

It's been a while since I posted, and Christmas is coming. It is truly a beautiful time here in Italy. When there is no Thanksgiving to get through, the decorations tend to go up earlier. Although trees don't officially get lit until December 8th, the Immaculate Conception. I recently traveled to Verona and Venice for the Biennale. There are so many little small towns, beautiful areas to explore for weekend getaways.

But this is just a PSA. I don't know why Americans have to dress this way. They make themselves so easy to spot. Absolute comfort doesn't have to be king. They are either dressed like this or head to toe Dior, Chanel, Valntino, Balmain T-shirts. My fellow Americans love a label.

I do miss my family in the states. Even though we were states apart and saw each other just about as much as we do now, the distance makes them feel remote. I don't miss the States. I do miss the ease of something familiar and the ease of English. It would be perfect if I could just pick them all up and move them here. My mom is coming for Christmas. I want her to see it. Christmas here reminds me of Christmases in the 80s, if anyone else is old enough to have been a kid then. The vibe is more about family, seeing friends, having the day off and celebrating with loved ones. Of course kids love the gifts. But the emphasis isn't buy as much as you can for everyone you know. The Christmas vibe is like the Thanksgiving vibe in the states - easy, casual, fun, food, friends. .

It is funny how Italians have adopted the idea of a "Black Friday." But they don't quite get it. Black Friday to them is just a big sale, so you could have it in the middle of July with the phone company. Completely random. Or they just call it Black Days, which sounds very ominous.

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by Anonymousreply 339November 14, 2022 6:50 PM

And Italians will name something using English to make it sound modern. A lot of times they are combination of words we don't even use. 10 virtual dollars to anyone who can guess what "Smart Working" means in Italian.

by Anonymousreply 340November 14, 2022 6:52 PM

How is Christmas going in Italy?

by Anonymousreply 341December 20, 2022 5:32 PM

I know this isn't a political thread, and I don't need it to be, but I am curious if anything has changed in a practical way, that you have noticed, since the new Prime Minister.

by Anonymousreply 342December 20, 2022 6:09 PM

Hey 341, I can post some pictures. My mom is visiting and we took a trip to Florence last weekend. The cities look like jewel boxes with all of the lights strung everywhere. They really go all out. Christmas here feels like holidays in the states back in the 80s before everything became so mercenary and cynical. Yes of course there are gifts but there isn't this relentless countdown to spend as much money as possible before you're shit out of luck or advertising hocking medications to deal with seasonal depression.

R342 someone once told me the key to happiness in Italy is to ignore politics. Although Italians love talking politics. I can't vote anyway, so it's a relief to live life without hanging onto every bit of news that drops. But overall I haven't noticed that much change. It's not like in America where everything feels so divided. There are like ten different parties and it takes an act of God it seems to get anything done. So even though there might be a conservative leader, they can't change the tone of the country overnight, and people wouldn't put up with it. And as in America where certain sides feel more emboldened to act up when their guy is in office, I haven't sensed that here. Maybe time will tell.

Italian Holiday Photostream so Far

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by Anonymousreply 343December 22, 2022 5:02 PM

You haven’t posted this year. How is it going?

by Anonymousreply 344March 31, 2023 4:40 AM

Has it really been that long? It is going well. I've just had my head down focusing on the things I need to do here, building my life. I've been posted in various other threads from the perspective of living here in Italy. My Italian is improving incrementally, imperceptibly. I have just notice things have been getting easier, clearer. I have to think less when headed into daily tasks. The perfect metaphor would be underwater and hearing a song playing above, surface level. And the closer you get to the surface, the clearer the song becomes. We are headed to Siena for easter next weekend. It's a quick train ride from Rome on a high speed train, $40 bucks is all.

Enjoying watching the Indictment news on my VPN.

by Anonymousreply 345March 31, 2023 12:19 PM

I went to Siena this weekend for Easter. Easter is a fun major thing here in Italy, although interestingly enough, not very religious. It's like their version of Thanksgiving as far as taking off and spending time with family. This Monday was a holiday. But my husband and I took the train up to Siena on Friday to stay the weekend. The next day we took the bus to see San Gimignano about an hour away. The views of the Tuscan rolling hills is everything you'd think it would be. But surprisingly Tuscany and the stops along the way seemed more integrated immigrant wise than Rome itself. You see more African and other immigrants working in the stores, the restaurants. They seem more part of the society there than they are here in Rome.

Some things I have learned about Italy and living in Rome is that that Rome is a sort of a food black hole compared to the rest of Italy. Everywhere else we travel, whether north or south, the food is always better. The food in Tuscany is amazing, the meats, flavours, pastas. Rome has four main pastas - carbonara, amatriciana, cacio e Pepe and alla gricia. And there are a handful of places that do it well. Good flavours, good food is NOT ubiquitous in Rome, far from it. Tuscany, Umbria, Napoli and others have great food.

Although I will say this. I am was never a food snob. I liked good food, but I could eat just about anything and be fine with it. My last trip to the states, after having been in Italy for a good while, was the first time I said "This food tastes like nothing." I wasn't looking down my nose at it. It's the food I grew up on. But man on man did I realize what people have always said. The food there in America has no taste, or if it does, it has a chemically after taste. My husband was preparing ground meat, meat we always ate and had no problem with in the past, and the smell made him sick. It was just so strong and gamey and off smelling. I have had two inch thick steaks in Firenze that were light tasting and didn't roll my stomach trying to digest it an hour later - burping, farting, acid reflux. The food quality is just fucking good here, period. They take it seriously, and it shows. The local grocery store Conad (imagine Giant Eagle) is on the the level of an Eataly in the States, and the prices are 1/5th.

A plague hit Siena in 1348 and wiped out the population from about 125,000 people to 50,000 people. And to this day the population is about 54,000. When I thought of Tuscany I always thought of sleepy, charming quiet country towns. Siena is about the chicest small town you will ever visit. The people, not tourist, know how to present themselves and enjoy doing it - whether it's the boys in streetwear, sneakers, kids, families. They really enjoy their "look" and their passegiatas.

The link below is to some pics I took while there.

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by Anonymousreply 346April 11, 2023 7:03 PM

What are you doing to improve your Italian? I watch Italian TV and there are so many words I don't understand.

Are the woods behind Ostia's gay beach still full of horny men?

by Anonymousreply 347April 14, 2023 10:06 PM

Have you been put on trial for witchcraft yet?

by Anonymousreply 348April 14, 2023 10:12 PM

Do you work there? If yes how easy was it for you to find a job?

by Anonymousreply 349April 14, 2023 10:59 PM

[quote]What are you doing to improve your Italian? I watch Italian TV and there are so many words I don't understand.

I have a student visa r347 so I have literally been going to school every day for the last almost two years. My Italian is good. I can communicate when I need to but I am far from fluent - Especially the Romanesco. Imagine Brooklynese but all Italian with the exact intonation. It's a very chopped up, butchered Italian. Every time I go north to say like Florence or somewhere, I all of a sudden feel like my classes are paying off. I basically knew close to nothing when I came, so I am impressed with how far I have come. I can listen to the news while having my morning coffee and follow along, if listening closely.

As far as gay men in Ostia, I don't know. As an immigrant I stay far away from anything that might get someone busted. But my gym locker room is satisfying me now. I don't care if you are gay or straight, every guy seems to look. There is this one cute kid who trains by himself. Big blue eyes, curly brown hair, maybe 20, 21. He is so lecherous and amazingly so, interested in older men. He bores holes with his eyes through any guy working out there over 40 years old. It literally gets him erect. He was changing in the locker room one day and had a raging hardon from the attention. I nearly hyperventilated from how thick the sexual tension was in the air. Suffice it to say that has served as spank bank material.

[quote]Have you been put on trial for witchcraft yet?

With all of the Ukranians coming through the system now, I can barely update my permesso di sorgiorno within six months. I don't think they have the capacity for frivolous trials now.

[quote]Do you work there? If yes how easy was it for you to find a job?

That has been the hard part. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do here, if even to continue what I was doing before. But I used to be a personal shopper in NYC and I'm now working with my clients from back there, shipping them cheaper Italian designer stuff from here. I charge a fee. There is something called a Nomad Visa in the works which will allow you to get a visa if you work remotely in another country. The dream for anyone would be to get paid an American salary but live here. You would be set up LOVELY. $50/60K a year and you could live the relaxing life of your dreams. The nice thing is you don't have to make an absolute killing to live here. I am not dining out every night. I go to the grocery stores, buy my food, watch what I spend. But I still can travel to various cities, enjoy a nice weekend here and there - like Siena. my husband literally got two bags of groceries so heavy he could barely carry them home - full of all these amazing things that would cost an arm and a leg there. The high end pasta brands are like .89 a bag when on sale. He had a bottle of wine, olives, meats etc... It was 48 euros.

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by Anonymousreply 350April 16, 2023 10:41 PM

And I have thought a lot about the difference between here and there, the quality of life. This is not easy by any means. It's not easy being in something unfamiliar, every day, creating a new life. There is a lot of self-doubt, but moments of great joy. It's not easy not being able to express yourself the way you want, to be able to communicate on a basic level sometimes. Feeling stupid when you can't. But that is part and parcel of the process.

America is my home. BUT there is such peace here that I didn't realize I needed. The no violence. People aren't violent. People get upset but it doesn't lead to violence. People aren't accosting you on the street. People aren't frustrated and pent up and upset with the world and taking it out on each other. You don't feel used or taken advantage of or pandered to by obsequious big businesses. AND NO FUCKING DRUG COMMERCIALS EVER! When I watch American TV it is so obvious how much they want everyone on some drug or another. There are so many drug commercials there. They are illegal here. It doesn't feel fake, or false. The life is much more simple yet I am living in a major world city. I can breath, and take my time and figure my life out. I don't miss America and the division. And you really see things and the way they are falling apart there from here. It make me sad to see. People have forgotten, or never have known what a nice, decent life can feel like. The weight of just getting through a day there is a lot on your shoulders - over stimulating to the point of exhaustion. It feels like a constant car horn when I am there. It is a big difference I must say.

by Anonymousreply 351April 16, 2023 10:58 PM

I don't feel so bad, now, about not finding any great food during my short time in Rome.

by Anonymousreply 352April 17, 2023 2:21 AM

You said you pay $1,400 euros/month for an apartment. Is it nice? How many rooms/bedrooms? Which floor? View?

by Anonymousreply 353April 17, 2023 5:21 AM

It's 1400 euros which is about $1600. Coming from NYC it's the nicest apartment we have ever lived in. It's two bedrooms, two bathrooms, washing machine, dishwasher, outdoor terrace over looking Palazzo courtyard. It has modern conveniences like automatic window blinds that completely blackout light. And we have very high ceilings, so tall windows, about 12'. But again living here now, we know we don't need all of this. One bedroom would suffice. We originally thought all these people would be coming to visit. But they haven't. So we don't need all the space.

by Anonymousreply 354April 17, 2023 5:54 AM

This is my fave DL thread, OP, because I've been suggesting to DLers to move to the Continent for years. Most Americans have no idea how difficult and stressful their lives are. And even those who think about the move believe it's too difficult to accomplis. Not so as you have shown by your example.

I look forward to future posts.

by Anonymousreply 355April 17, 2023 6:20 AM

This weekend is a holiday in Italy - Festa della Repubblica. There is a flyover, which I love to see. I woke up early to walk over to the colosseum to see the flyover there. On my way down through Parco Colle Oppio the mounted brigade was preparing for their part in the parade that goes down through Via Fori Imperiale to Piazza Venezia. I love horses and love see the guys ride them. It's so regal. I have a lot of videos but I can't upload them because of their length. But here is me entering Parco Colle Oppio and various pics of the riders. BTW, the park is where Nero's Domus Aurea begins, so you can still see the ruins going down to the Colosseum and into the Palatine Hill.

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by Anonymousreply 356June 3, 2023 8:02 PM

The men taking off to head down past the Colosseum.

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by Anonymousreply 357June 3, 2023 8:06 PM

The Fly Over past the Colosseum.

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by Anonymousreply 358June 3, 2023 8:10 PM

The flyover I caught the last time, just to give you an idea of how cool they are here and worth waking up for.

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by Anonymousreply 359June 3, 2023 8:12 PM

TROLL THREAD.

by Anonymousreply 360June 4, 2023 12:24 PM

My partner and I have moved from Rome to Florence recently. Actually we started moving up this weekend - which in hindsight with it being Ferragosto tonorrow -wasn’t the best idea. We have a rental here but still have our apartment in Rome for a month, so we can take our time. I just wanted to share these “hot cop” pics I took this weekend.

It was funny, the “Communist Party” here was having a protest this weekend and the cops showed up. The communist party basically looks like a bunch of 20 somethings from Bushwick Brooklyn complaining about tourists taking over and driving them out. It was all kind of silly and lasted 10 minutes. Then they went back to listening to a DJ and hanging out. But after seeing the cops who turned out in riot gear, I thought I might need to join the Comminist Party and start some real trouble.

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by Anonymousreply 361August 14, 2023 8:46 AM

My Annie Leibovitz style candid of the cops gathered in the street. I kinda really like this one. I heard it was illegal to take pictures of la polizia here in Italy, but these guys didn’t seem to mind and didn’t say anything. I stood right in the middle of the street in front of them to capture it. With the crime rate here in Florence almost non-existent, they literally have nothing to do here.

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by Anonymousreply 362August 14, 2023 8:50 AM

Who believes this shit? Unless OP is rich, he wouldn’t even be able to get a decent job because unlike the USA, you need to be an Italian citizen to work there. An American can’t just show up and get a job.

by Anonymousreply 363August 14, 2023 9:17 AM

R363 you don’t know what you are talking about. You don’t have to be a citizen to work in Italy. Citizenship takes ten years, but there are a tons of people from other countries working here. My husband is a professor and already found a job here at a University.

And we are hardly rich. We both took the max out of our 401k when you could do so without penalty (just taxes) during covid. That’s what we’ve been living off of and his job supplements that and now I am looking for work.

There are different Visas that allow you to work here. Even my student visa allows me to work 20 hours a week. We are moving to Florence where there are more opportunities for native English speakers, and a more modern quality of life overall.

It just goes to show you there are a lot of blowhards on Datalounge like r363 who speak so confidently about things they know nothing about. You have to do your own research. If you’re not careful you might take what he’s saying as truth.

Below is a link from the train I’m on now back to Rome, for people like R363.

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by Anonymousreply 364August 14, 2023 10:56 AM

R364 actually, I do know what I am speaking about. Notice I specified American. People from other parts of Europe can work there but Americans? No.

by Anonymousreply 365August 14, 2023 10:58 AM

R365 luv, my husband is American and is working in Italy. I don’t know how else to tell you more clearly that you are wrong. He’s in the process of converting is student visa to a self-employed (lavoro-autonomo) visa. Obviously there are steps like declaring residency (which is not citizenship), having a job in Italy with a contract to work. But Americans work here.

by Anonymousreply 366August 14, 2023 11:14 AM

As a little plug for him - because he is such a nerd for travel through Italy and also knows the ins and outs of the bureaucracy of moving to Italy from America having dealt with it for over two years straight - he does consulting for both for people interested in traveling or moving here. If you’re thinking of doing the same and wondering how it’s all possible - check him out at @italyenvy on insta.

by Anonymousreply 367August 14, 2023 11:26 AM

is it hard to get italian citizenship? i understand that if your parents are italian, you can get it.

by Anonymousreply 368September 4, 2023 7:27 PM

Hey r368, Italian Citizenship for people who don't have relatives takes 10 years. You have to have a Visa that you renew every year the first five years. After five years you can get permanent residence that you don't have to renew. And after five years of that you can apply for Italian Citizenship. The process is LONG even if you have Italian relatives. It can take years. You have to research your family. There are certain rules as to how long they would have had to live here before moving. If your parents are Italian born, that is much easier. But things like grandparents take a lot of digging and proving. Even with all your ducks in a row, the process is so slow and it could take up to two, three years.

Me personally, I am the process of renewing my permesso di sorggiorno for the third year as a language student. Just to give you an example, I submitted my application at the post office, like you're suppose to, last month. The date I received to go to the Questera to review my paperwork and get fingerprinted is in March!. Then I will most likely have to wait six weeks after that to get my actual card. By the time I do, it will be almost time to start the process again. And during that time the only country I can travel to is the United States. I can't travel to any other country while I am in renewal - not even layovers in other countries. So all of my flights to the States from Italy have to be direct.

by Anonymousreply 369September 4, 2023 9:02 PM

wow! R369, thank you for that information. yes, I'm helping a friend look into getting his Italian passport.

by Anonymousreply 370September 6, 2023 3:14 PM
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