Pressure to be Feminine

Absolutely ridiculous set-up, OP. Are you attention seeking, quite unobservant, or mentally ill?

YES, YES, AND YES.

What the hell are you talking about?

For eons, for the most part we’ve put pressure on each other to act more masculine. In the early days to pass as straight and later to attract other gay men who weren’t into feminine guys.

Dumbest post ever OP.

Gay men are attracted to masculinity!!

R4 yes but it’s like how women deep down want knuckle draggers but aloud say they want the sensitive, emotional guys. It’s a mind split between true desire and what society is pushing.

Dis gunna be gud....

We all know you like borderline drag queens R6, so quit the spectating.

The fact that we immediately consider any slightly effeminate straight man to be gay is a sign of an anti-intellectual society. We defer constantly to the most exaggerated, cartoonish ideas of gender roles. All the people who love to herald freedom from gender roles only like when it goes one direction, they want to see the former athlete gay guy turned into a drag queen but they never want to see a drag queen decide to join a kickball team. These people are just as bad as those they profess to hate, they view femininity as a scarlet letter and once you’re stained there is no going back.

Femininity is inherent, Masculinity is earned.

100% false

R11 is one of those who hates when the YASSS KWEEN record that’s always on a loop gets busted, but has no backup for their argument.

Couldn't disagree more with this moronic post.

OP, your weird obsession with drag queens is duly noted, but you can't expect anyone here on DL to care about it, let alone agree with the bizarre things you say.

R14 who am I forcing to agree with me? You’re the one here commenting on your own, did I come drag you out of another thread? Your holier-than-thou attitude is duly noted. I bet you have a persecution fetish in your everyday life.

I'm a gay guy who hates drag, musicals and divas. I've never been to a gay club. I'm a healthy sexually active person and I steer clear of the so-called community because of what OP said.

I came to realize most posters here are effeminate men, because the delusions you have toward bisexual men or what you consider masculinity leads me to believe you don't hang out with men but with women or other effeminate men like you.

Most effeminate men are gay, that's just reality. Most men are masculine too, regardless of sexual orientation, that's why effeminacy stands out. If you hang out with men you know this already.

R16 YASSSSSS KWEEN! Mama just read these bitches to filth! You betta work, Bitch!

Why would society encourage gay men to be effeminate when effeminacy is the quality in gay men that disgusts society?

Kill yourself.

R18 and r3 are correct. There is pressure to be masculine, no one is pressured to be feminine

R16 hates musicals, divas, and gay clubs....but posts on a gay board where 90% of the posts are about musicals and divas

R5 thinks he knows what women want. LOL.

R20 once you’re labeled as fem or gay then society wants to push you further down the femmy rabbit hole. The masculine pressure is there but that’s in straight world, but once you’re in the gay community there is pressure within to homogenize and become more feminine, straight women then try to make you more femme too. It’s like society’s goal is to make everyone cartoon characters.

And where does this happen, r23? In some small mid-western city with a vestige of gay clone ghetto, still living like its 1992?

No OP- get a life.

Another right wing incel/idiot thread started by (wait for it...)

an incel/idiot.

I'm sick of this masculine and feminine dichotomy. The truth of the matter is most people are androgynous and possess traits of both. The people who swing too the extremes of masculinity and femininity are minorities that stand out. If you are a confident, happy gay man then you wouldn't a give a shit about this. Hang out with masculine gays or open-minded straight guys. Most people regardless of orientation gravitate to friends with similar interests.

And I don't think the gay community pressures anyone to be feminine or masculine. The mainstream media's portrayal of gays leans towards effeminate and drag because it stands out more and gets viewers. Straight people expect gays to be feminine if anything. There's so many gay subcultures that do not get that any mainstream focus.

[quote] once you’re labeled as fem or gay then society wants to push you further down the femmy rabbit hole. The masculine pressure is there but that’s in straight world, but once you’re in the gay community there is pressure within to homogenize and become more feminine, straight women then try to make you more femme too. It’s like society’s goal is to make everyone cartoon characters.

If you're an adult then nobody can force you to become what you don't want to be. Society does not force you to do anything, you can rebel and keep your individuality. The gay community is not a monolith, it's large and consists of various subcultures. You're gay, why the hell do you give a shit what straight women want? Straight women do not know shit about being a gay male.

Is this your quarter final paper in your first year of Community College, OP? It's benign bullshit, is why I'm asking.

[quote] hates musicals, divas, and gay clubs....but posts on a gay board where 90% of the posts are about musicals and divas

Are you sure about that? I'm following 30 threads and none are about those things. This lack of awareness is kind of the point I was making.

I don't think gay culture is inherently feminine. So many gay men were involved with the arts, design, education, music, literature, philosophy, etc. I think being more emotionally expressive, less confined by gender roles and being a generally open-minded person gets mistaken as "feminine". It's an issue in The US where we disregard enlightenment and studying of culture in favor of rugged individuality, materialism and rampant consumerism. There are other cultures that have little issue with a man being cultured, emotionally open and understanding aesthetics.

Those other cultures may have less issue but the truth is that if women are inclined to pursue education and a career, they get involved in things like arts, design, education, music, literature, philosophy, etc. Math and science based interests and jobs tend to be male dominated in almost every culture.

I think OP you need to avoid the women who see gays as personal pets. Some think we're all supposed to be sassy flaming eunuchs who they can laugh at and confide into. They think our only personality is being gay and they're entitled to our emotional labor. The irony is many of those gays who pal around them are rather passive aggressive or misogynistic towards women but it isn't taken seriously. I have male and female friends and made sure to hang out with the ones who just see me as a human with my sexuality being inconsequential to my personality.

OP =

Being a gay man was never about acting or dressing like a woman. That shit was added into gay identity by the dysfunctional bunch. Homosexuality is about attraction to MEN. Not attraction to men who dress like women, FFS. It's not about insecurity, it's logic and fact. If "gay men" were attracted to men who dress or act like women, that would actually make us straight or bisexual, because the outer appearance is trying to resemble a female or femininity. Showing your feminine side as a gay man is fine, but that shouldn't involve actually dressing or acting like an actual female. That's borderline trans fetishism and bisexuality. I don’t know how a gay guy be attracted to another gay man who dressed up as woman. That is completely nonsensical and a huge contradiction. You are basically saying that "gay men" get turned on by femininity which are femime traits and/or psychical traits that turn on heterosexual or bisexual men.

Rightoid division thread, post gay porn.

Yes. I agree. R35. There's a big difference between a pretty boy with some androgyny and someone who straight up looks and acts like girl.

Yummy

You can transition if you want, OP.

men

WOMEN

men

WOMEN

Loved this one

[quote][R18] and [R3] are correct. There is pressure to be masculine, no one is pressured to be feminine

Um, the left has certainly been championing femininity in men but discourage masculinity. And they do this via propaganda in films, plays, magazines, etc. Look at how many emasculated male characters there are now. And, of course, they're also touting what they call "the new masculinity" where men wear dresses and makeup. Look at all the good publicity they give that freak Harry Styles for 'embracing his femininity" (i.e., diminish his masculinity).

R42 hot

It's hilarious that people try this bullshit in 2021. We have come a long way, and we know that individual expression is not a threat to us or other individuals. Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing.

As a very naturally effeminate man, I find it bizarre that some think this is forced on us or we're pressured to embrace femininity. If anything, I and others like me, fight against it, but it was only when I escaped the crippling anxiety of my teenage years that I realised it's just who I am. No one labelled me, I simply stopped fighting it and as a consequence I gained confidence in myself.

R45 I had a similar experience, before coming out I was always worried about being masculine, the day I came out all those worries went away.

I also don’t think gay culture resembles women's culture that strongly, except in that they share certain forms of oppression, but that doesn’t necessarily they have similarities in style. I think the reason that trope exists and took hold is that straight culture wanted to put down or shame gays, and since straight culture is so misogynistic, the easiest thing to do was to point and say “wow so womanly” as if 1) it made sense in the first place and 2) as if it’s an insult to be a woman.

Next thing, our ideas about masculinity still seem for some reason to be only based on a traditional straight man. All men and all things done by men are masculine by nature. Gay men are masculine regardless of society’s ideas of what that word means. Whats more masculine than two men fucking? If anything gay men are more masculine in their identity and interests due to our sexual lives.

Last thing, as others have said, any well adjusted gay man with proper self esteem won’t worry about this, and would be comfortable in their own skin. Those that fret over it (or loudly proclaim that they’re “just a masculine gay man, I’m not like the others”) tend to be insecure, and have a few more years of personal development before becoming comfortable with their own masculinity / effeminacy. Being comfortable with your own person as a man is the peak of masculine expression.

Sorry, forgot to add that I'm not a drag queen, either (but I do have some women's jumpers and accessories and wear women's perfumes). I don't know anyone who is a YAS KWEEN! type, though, I wish them nothing but happiness.

I think there is pressure to conform to the prevailing GAY aesthetic- Big build, ugly tattoos, tank tops in summer. I don’t mind a guy who’s mildly effeminate as long as he’s a Civilian ( someone who does not feel the need to conform to the prevailing gay aesthetic).

Many gay men like to be funny. And to be funny to a group (gaggle) of gay guys sometimes means you have to tell the story a bit campy. It's hard to act like Clint Eastwood and be a HOOT. Yes I know there's lots of guys (gay and straight) who have no desire to be funny in that campy sort of way, and who are still funny in other ways.

The stereotype of gay men as overly effeminate is still alive and kicking.

So when there is an intersection, such as the RuPaul show, the assumption is that all gay men like it.

Sort of how many people assume that all Blacks like gangsta rap, all Jews like Jerry Seinfeld, all Italians like opera, all Irish like Guinness, all WASPs love gin and tonics, etc.

I think gay men are best described as gender-nonconforming rather than effeminate. I think we lack the same misogyny of straight men and appreciate the creativity of women. Straight men are taught to see girls and women as inferior and as sex objects, mothers or property. Gay men don't see women like that. So we're likely to have female role models as well as male role models. Yes there is a gay voice but I don't find it really feminine just higher pitched and more emotionally expressive. The stereotypical straight man voice is deep, gruff flat and monotone. I never mistake a gay man for a woman. I think straight men fake their gruff and deep voice subconsciously. I think most people are androgynous to an extent. Straight people are just more slavish to gender roles.

everyone has their own, differing, opinion on this subject.

No one thinks all Italians like opera

This subject was covered, albeit from a different angle, about a month ago.

A new thread about this subject seems to pop up every 4 to 6 weeks here.

[quote] No one thinks all Italians like opera

You must be new here.

On DL there are many who do not consider Italians to be white.

[quote] I'm a gay guy who hates drag, musicals and divas. I've never been to a gay club. I'm a healthy sexually active person and I steer clear of the so-called community

You GO, gurl!

Cant say I've ever personally felt pressured to be feminine. I'd be really shit at it anyway. Drag is only limited to one part of the community, I'm pretty indifferent to it.

Just be who you are naturally (unless you're naturally a cunt, in which case ignore this advice). That will attract people more than pretending to be something you not

R45 is a good example of how to do this right. Read and learn y'all

[quote]If you're an adult then nobody can force you to become what you don't want to be. Society does not force you to do anything, you can rebel and keep your individuality. The gay community is not a monolith, it's large and consists of various subcultures. You're gay, why the hell do you give a shit what straight women want? Straight women do not know shit about being a gay male.

R28 now that right there is wisdom. R27 too. R33 is right about avoiding women what see gays as personal pets. I dont much trouble with that myself, maybe its cos my fashion style consist mostly of camo and black?

Avoid toxic people in general. Gays can be toxic, women and straight men can be, too.

Some mock the term "Live Your Truth", but that is really the only way to be genuinely happy. Finding a way to live your life and not the life, say, your parents, friends, or peers want you to live.

Doesn't it seem odd that these sorts of "questioning" threads always show up when traffic is down, and the OPs always have few other posts (if any) but hover over their threads like they're being paid to do it?

Fuck you, OP.

=====

Pressure to be Feminine Do you feel the gay community pushes each other to be fem? Have you ever personally felt this? Since the takeover of Drag, it seems like we embrace and encourage everyone to homogeneously act as feminine as possible while discouraging masculine behavior.

Pressure to be Feminine R4 yes but it’s like how women deep down want knuckle draggers but aloud say they want the sensitive, emotional guys. It’s a mind split between true desire and what society is pushing.

Pressure to be Feminine The fact that we immediately consider any slightly effeminate straight man to be gay is a sign of an anti-intellectual society. We defer constantly to the most exaggerated, cartoonish ideas of gender roles. All the people who love to herald freedom from gender roles only like when it goes one direction, they want to see the former athlete gay guy turned into a drag queen but they never want to see a drag queen decide to join a kickball team. These people are just as bad as those they profess to hate, they view femininity as a scarlet letter and once you’re stained there is no going back.

Pressure to be Feminine Femininity is inherent, Masculinity is earned.

Pressure to be Feminine R11 is one of those who hates when the YASSS KWEEN record that’s always on a loop gets busted, but has no backup for their argument.

Pressure to be Feminine R14 who am I forcing to agree with me? You’re the one here commenting on your own, did I come drag you out of another thread? Your holier-than-thou attitude is duly noted. I bet you have a persecution fetish in your everyday life.

Pressure to be Feminine R16 YASSSSSS KWEEN! Mama just read these bitches to filth! You betta work, Bitch!

Pressure to be Feminine R20 once you’re labeled as fem or gay then society wants to push you further down the femmy rabbit hole. The masculine pressure is there but that’s in straight world, but once you’re in the gay community there is pressure within to homogenize and become more feminine, straight women then try to make you more femme too. It’s like society’s goal is to make everyone cartoon characters.

R61, I checked for myself... damn!

Why though? Why bother going to all that effort? Aint he got anything more better to do?

OP is just a femmephobe digging for treasons to hate and demonize people who have nothing to do with him.

Unless, of course, he’s one of those flaming queens who thinks he’s masc because he has no self awareness.

I’d love for the OP to explain why she’s masc.

American society is very commercialized and shallow. The media portrays everyone as a caricature and some people internalize these images. Social media is a game of tribalism and there's been this old rise of essentialist thinking and group ideologies. Avoid shallow, close-minded and self-absorbed people. Take a break from TV and social media. Pop culture is good in tiny doses. Go out and talk to people, read as many books as possible and travel. You will find like-minded people. It just takes effort.

Some gay men do this. They give you attitude for not being all catty and swishy like them, like you're not *really* out of the closet yet. I don't refer to male friends as "mary!", "gurl!", "yass queen!". That's not my personality.

R35, same sentiment among most gay women! Same sex attraction means same sex attraction and all that goes with it.

In college I joined a LGBT group after much consideration. In less than 10 minutes I was given a speech on how the way I talked, the music I listened to and my personal interests were "heteronormative" and wrong. They gave me that stupid Gender Trouble book by academic fraudster Judith Butler and tried to convince me that there was an essential gayness in us that I needed to find. I find this situation an actual example of what OP talks about.

That was my first and last time in the gay community and I'm glad I never looked back.

Those flaming "yass queen!" gays act more like parodies of women than real women. They all have this very masculine aggressiveness in their need to dominate the room and get attention. No different from drag, a cartoon a woman. Actual femininity would be defined as soft-spoken, patient, nurturing, graceful and self-sacrificing though negative aspects would be passive-aggressive, codependent, manipulative and submissive.

R68, right on . I feel the same way about extreme butch lesbians.

Actual gay male authors and filmmakers have a better perspective on being a gay male. It's odd how straight women and lesbians seem to dominate the conversation.

I'll just leave this here:

Whoops, wrong thread ^