The War In France

For a long time, you believed you were the only one to see, to hear, to think, to doubt. You were afraid to say it. You were ashamed of your feelings. For a long time, you dared not say what you are seeing, and above all you dared not see what you were seeing.

And then you said it to your wife. To your husband. To your children. To your father. To your mother. To your friends. To your coworkers. To your neighbors. And then to strangers. And you understood that your feeling of dispossession was shared by everyone.

France is no longer France, and everyone sees it.

Of course, they despised you: the powerful, the élites, the conformists, the journalists, the politicians, the professors, the sociologists, the union bosses, the religious authorities.

They told you it’s all a ploy, it’s all fake, it’s all wrong. But you understood in time that it was them who were a ploy, them who had it all wrong, them who did you wrong. The disappearance of our civilization is not the only question that harasses us, although it towers over everything. Immigration is not the cause of all our problems, although it aggravates everything.

The third-worlding of our country and our people impoverishes as much as it disintegrates, ruins as much as it torments.

It’s why you often have a hard time making ends meet. It’s why we must re-industrialize France. It’s why we must equalize the balance of trade. It’s why we must reduce our growing debt, bring back to France our companies that left, give jobs to our unemployed.

It’s why we must protect our technological marvels and stop selling them to foreigners. It’s why we must allow our small businesses to live, and to grow, and to pass from generation to generation.

It’s why we must preserve our architectural, cultural, and natural heritage. It’s why we must restore our republican education, its excellence and its belief in merit,

and stop surrendering our children to the experiments of egalitarians and pedagogists and the Doctor Strangeloves of gender theory and islamo-leftism.

It’s why we must take back our sovereignty, abandoned to European technocrats and judges, who rob the French people of the ability to control their destiny in the name of a fantasy – a Europe that will never be a nation.

Yes, we must give power to the people, take it back from the minority that unceasingly tyrannizes the majority and from judges who substitute their judicial rulings for government of the people, for the people, by the people.

For decades, our elected officials of the right and the left have led us down this dire path of decline and decadence. Right and left have lied and concealed the gravity of our diminishment. They have hidden from you the reality of our replacement.

You have known me for many years. You know what I say, what I diagnose, what I proclaim. I have long been content with the role of journalist, writer, Cassandra, whistleblower. Back then, I believed that a politician would take up the flame that I had lit.

I said to myself, to each his own job, to each his own role, to each his own fight. I have lost this illusion. Like you, I have lost confidence. Like you, I have decided to take our destiny in hand.

I saw that no politician had the courage to save our country from the tragic fate that awaits it. I saw that all these supposed professionals were, above all, impotent.

That President Macron, who had presented himself as an outsider, was in fact the synthesis of his two predecessors, or worse. That all the parties were contenting themselves with reforms, while time passes them by.

There is no more time to reform France – but there is time to save her. That is why I have decided to run for President.

They call him the Tucker Carlson of France. If he wins, France will finally understand what it was like with Trump for 4 LONG years. Goodby Paris.

[quote]You smell foreigners in your own country.

Pretty loud whistle there.

He's a self loathing piece of shit. The guy is Jewish and talking this xenophobic crap. Sick fuck. The Presidency of France serves a 5 year term and there is no mechanism to remove a President. This is dangerous.

Agree or disagree with him, he is expressing what the majority of the French are feeling.

The French are not happy with what mass immigration has wrought. The French do not want to be like the US.

And there is also a huge push back against. American-style wokeism.

1,000 dollar bet that they think there is no way this guy gets elected and in classic Trumpian turn of events he wins.

[quote] The Presidency of France serves a 5 year term and there is no mechanism to remove a President.

Given this is the 5th republic you guys are on now you'd think you'd be better at drafting constitutions by this point.

R7: Actually I'm a political scientist in the US. But here's the kicker. De Gaulle wrote that Constitution for himself. The original French presidency was elected via Electoral College for 7 years. They amended it to popular vote for 5 years. If I was in the French National Assembly, I would be introducing an impeachment amendment right now as a backstop....

The problem is, despite its occasional outbreaks of disorder, France is, unlike say Italy, an incredibly ordered and neat country. You notice the difference immediately you cross the border. The French are profoundly troubled by the casual disorder generational immigration, with its different social values, has wrought. Even to just minor things, such as the way a girl is looked upon in the street, or litter. At this point it's mostly unfixable, except by a fascism, which isn't going to happen. But to deny its effects, is equally worse. However some aspects can be fixed through a fimer upholding of social values, and this election will be on that: social values. Which are considered far more important in France than in America or England. That's why most foreign commentators don't really grasp the nuts and bolts of this election, and merely cast it a right vs left mode, which dumbs it down.

Is this really a surprise? France has been a very racist country for a very long time. Everyone loves to point to the US but by comparison we are far more liberal. When foreigners come to the US they usually integrate within a generation, not so in France. Oh they open the gates to let them in, but then they push them into a shitty section of the city and never interact with them again. They don't hire them for jobs, befriend them or socially interact with them like other countryman. The result is a self fulfilling prophecy of crime and poverty. That's why there were thousands of known terrorist that sprung up there after 9/11 vs less than 100 in the US over the same time period. Have they ever had a black President? Can a Muslim get elected to office? That's my point, they never integrate.

R10 The US has nothing to teach France.

France does not want to see it's cities turn into the shit-holes that you see in the US.

Look at the crime, the murder rates, the mayhem in the US.

No thanks.

Americans, you all are really full of clichés. The problem with you all is that you think the whole world is like you. Everyone has their own culture, their own history, it's about time you stopped acting like settlers. France is 2000 years old, not 500 yo.

Anyways, a week ago I saw this video which helped me to understand what is happening in France and who Zemmour was. Zemmour was in a meeting in London. I subscribe to this channel because I am a fan and in love with this journalist. To understand what is going a real interview is way better than comments of trolls and ignorant people on the DL

^what is going on

Zemmour has nothing to do with Trump. Zemmour is extremely cultivated. He has a brilliant education and has been one of the star journalists in France for decades.

[quote] France is 2000 years old

The gaul!

The immediate criticism that his thoughts are racist is proving his point and will only help his argument. France has never promised a pluralist society. Adhere to our their way of life or move on and create your own society somewhere else.

Are you one of these many new Nazi DLers OP? There seem to be many of you lately.

LePen called and wants her act back.

It took 17 replies before the troll popped up. They lack the intellect, knowledge or language skills to properly debate the issues, but they can sure throw out the buzz words Hitler, Nazi, Pedo, Racist. etc etc. Fuck off back to the Super Heros threads luv. They're your level.

You did not just stumble onto that video r12. You have been a Nazi for quite some time. Admit it to yourself and to others. The Nazi dream calls to you. Be honest.

Also, try Monarchism. At least it has a sense of style about the whole thing. Especially French Monarchism. Find a Bourbon.

[quote]It took 17 replies before the troll popped up. They lack the intellect, knowledge or language skills to properly debate the issues, but they can sure throw out the buzz words Hitler, Nazi, Pedo, Racist. etc etc.

Agreed.

Or an Orleanist. Or if you must, a Bonaparte.

Americans do not understand that Europeans are the natives of their own country. France is constantly under attacks on its soil, especially since it has followed the US in its endless wars in Muslim countries and has had to take thousands and thousands of refugees. So I think that when you drag your allies into conflicts that they pay with their lives on their soil, you have the decency not calling them racists.

That's great, OP. Give Le Hitler a platform.

Fuck off.

Calling a Jew Hitler? Really? .... Wow. This is exactly why French people don't want your way of life.

France does not have Muslims because of wandering into wars with the U.S. (and seriously, is World War I just chopped liver now)? It has Muslims because it decided to occupy North Africa for a couple of centuries and there were actual results from that. Strange but true.

R26 LOL. Okay, when you don't know history, you don't talk nonsense. Algeria, for your information, tried several times to conquer France. Each time the French decimated them. For 4 centuries, the Algerians raided all the coasts of the Mediterranean, including the southern French coast, capturing 1 million Europeans, including Americans. Exhausted, the French landed there and colonized them. But Algeria was at that time (1830) under Ottoman colony. And before the Ottomans it was the Arabs who colonized them.

Is your big mouth complaining that North Africa was entirely colonized by the Arabs? Does your big mouth complain that the Arabs were the first to enslave black people as early as the 7th century, for 14 centuries with systematic castrations? France was the only colonizer who built roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, the French eradicated diseases that were rampant there, gave them larger land areas, ports, etc...

Since when are racist French people posting at DL? Fuck off.

(oh sorry: Allez vous faire foutre.)

R26 "It has Muslims because it decided to occupy North Africa for a couple of centuries"

Couple of centuries? 132 years. What about your obese asses still sitting in a country that has belonged to indigenous people for 500 years?? Are you sure you can give lessons in racism to anyone on this planet ??? No, this must be a joke.

R28 Fermes ta gueule sac à merde

Well thank you for that very half assed history lesson r27. Yes, the Barbary Pirates raided the coast of the Mediterranean, as of course later Europeans would raid the coasts of Africa. But there was no "Algerian" near conquest of France. There was a little friction between Christians and Muslims for many centuries to put it mildly, and there was much to-ing and fro-ing and a whole lot of nonsense. UNFAIR! but really just part of the circle of constant violence that was the Middle Ages.

Also, the Arabs were certainly not the first to enslave black people. That would probably be black people themselves, as in various times and places slavery was a local affair. And the occasional Roman may have owned a black slave or two. The Arabs were pretty nuts about the whole thing, but they certainly did not restrict themselves to black people. They loved enslaving white people too, especially Slavs, which led to a curious linguistic connection between Slavs and Slaves at least in English.

It took white Europeans in the 16th to start developing a whole theory of black people equals slaves.

Also too, France was the only colonizer to build roads and bridges? Really? No Roman built a road? They were pretty famous for that, and some aqueducts too.

R31 Wrong. The Arab conquest of France in 732 wasNorth africans coming from Algeria. Black people did practice slavery among themselves. But the first to have enslaved blacks and traded them to Europeans, including your ancestors, were the North Africans.

R32 The Romans did not build anything in Algeria.

Well, my ancestors were dicking around in Ireland and Germany during the slave trade, but the white people that were dicking around in Virginia and South Carolina during the heyday of the Atlantic slave trade were mostly trading with West Africans who were selling somewhat more interior West Africans to them, mostly through New Englanders.

[quote]France does not want to see it's cities turn into the shit-holes that you see in the US.

Oh right, I guess the Bataclan where 130 people were murdered and another 416 people were injured is such a good example to fallow. No issue with terrorist there hu? Homegrown ones as a matter of fact. Or Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, resulting in the deaths of 86 people and the injury of 458 others. Yet again another French citizen marginalized until he exploded with rage.

Shit-Hole France Meet Shit-Hole America.

To read Americans who NEVER decolonized America, who committed genocide on the natives, who enslaved the black ppl, then set up segregation, with guys who hanged blacks in trees, wanting to lecture the French is quite surreal I must say.

That's the fun of white people, r29. We can all give lessons on racism to each other. We're actually very good at it.

And of course we're even better at pretending, that no, YOU are the real racist. It's a little game we've been playing for 100 years.

R38 The difference is that it's not the French who gives the lesson here. It is again Americans, who after having betrayed them several times have the nerve to call them racists. It's rather worthy of psychiatry

[quote] The Romans did not build anything in Algeria.

Saint Augustine is pissed at you r34. Offended even.

Wait, how did Americans betray the French?

R41 where is it now? Show me a real picture.

[quote] where is it now?

Algeria.

[quote] Show me a real picture.

Of what?

I love France and find this all very interesting.

R36 "Oh right, I guess the Bataclan where 130 people were murdered and another 416 people were injured is such a good example to fallow. No issue with terrorist there hu? Homegrown ones as a matter of fact. Or Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, resulting in the deaths of 86 people and the injury of 458 others"

And they were all ISIS fighters. Someone above dared to deny that the American wars in muslim countries did not cost the lives of the French on their own soil. Since 2015, these terrorists have stirred up other terrorists and the situation in France is horrible. But the Americans who do not even have 2% of muslims on their soil still allow themselves to be arrogant.

I have nothing against France, but don't be delusional. That's been another stupid game we all play with ourselves and each other.

[quote]France was the only colonizer who built roads, bridges, schools,...

Hello this is Rome calling from ~2000 year ago? We'd like to speak to France about your so called roads and bridges. Yeah, we invented all of those Dear, including colonizing other couturiers.

R45 The Romans buildings inAlgeria, where are the pics? The real ones.

Zemmour is like Trump in the sense that he gets and channels what many people feel like. But zemmour is no Trump in that he is extremely cultivated.

Which ones r50? The ones on Caligula's TikTok account? What exactly are you looking for?

Wanting a cultivated Trump is not the highest ideal. In fact should probably run screaming from anybody who can be described that way.

[quote]Americans do not understand that Europeans are the natives of their own country.

The French do not understand that some of us Native Americans are still alive and have been here for over 10,000 years.

Go fuck yourself. your stupid game is childish as fuck R52 There are no Roman building remain in Algeria

R54 Except you are not a native American, so STFU

Okay, so there was no evidence of Roman settlement, even after centuries of Roman occupation r55. Okay, thanks.

Many Americans would agree with Zemmour, so I'm not sure why this thread turned into US vs France.

Agree with him about what r58?

There is a video at R12 with an interview that explains things well but Americans keep comparing him to Trump. It's crazy, you all are so lacking so much in references that you think everything revolves around your little orbit.

R58 Because someone here is obsessed with French bashing and don't know shit on History.

[quote] Yeah, we invented all of those Dear, including colonizing other couturiers.

Yes, Armani and Valentino colonized Chanel and Dior.

Actually nobody is obsessed with French bashing, really. Is this a sensitivity thing? Is this one of those pathetic my country must never be criticized in any way things? That's always sort of sad and pathetic. Is that what this is?

[quote]but Americans keep comparing him to Trump.

Americans always need a reference. Otherwise they're at sea. And they don't do nuance. The characterisation of him as Trump is as accurate as comparing Lincoln to Bush.

R60, he is a lot like Trump. He understands that decades of globalization, free trade, open borders and unregulated capitalism have negatively disrupted western societies.

He's also far more educated and sophisticated than Trump.

R64 Hahaha Goog one.

[quote] The Romans buildings inAlgeria, where are the pics? The real ones.

Dumb ass at R50, click the Wikipedia link at R41.

And now Trump is upset by "unregulated capitalism"? Honestly, you may love this French bitch, but seriously if you think that is what Trump is about you have seriously lost the plot. And I suspect you will have the same delusions about this bitch.

Goog.

[quote]But the Americans who do not even have 2% of muslims on their soil still allow themselves to be arrogant.

Excuses, excuses, it's not the quantity, it's the quality. French people failed to integrate with their Muslim immigrants. There are 3.45 million Muslims were living in the United States, more than enough to do real damage if they were isolated and stigmatized like they are in France. The difference is America is still a melting pot and we are not as hung up on country purity as the French.

This thread was interesting and rather pleasant. But of course, the "racist", "nazi", and even "Hitler" came in as always, and then a crazy French-hating person joined in and changed the topic.

^^Good

I have little pity for European countries that spent centuries pillaging the globe.

nothing to do with hating France. In fact, I don't think anyone can say this is a thread about hating France, in any way.

Macron has been a profound disappointment. He was originally portrayed as a kind of maverick who had none of the baggage of the elite, but the fact was he was just their creation. Without their backing he would never come out of nowhere. Now the French elite is going to have to really pull rabbits out of hats to gain control. Several women have no accused Zemmour of abuse. As with the farcical cases against Assange, you can bet your bottom dollar this didn't just happen: it's been engineered as a diversionary tactic. The mud throwing has just begun.

I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh when he wins. The guy is a psycho, but the French can't resist virtue signaling when it comes to the US. It'll be nice to see them pay for lumping all Americans in with Trump.

Yeah, as if Arabs, Chinese, Turkish and other nations had not colonized and pillaging the globe

In fairness, the Chinese have only begun to pillage the globe. I suspect as they have throughout their history, they will get bored with the whole idea and shrink back into themselves within a few decades.

R75 Ah. Someone knows a little about the situation in France. Finally.

I LOVED the speech. It was absolutely beautiful and inspiring. Everything he said was so true and needs to be said ad nauseum in every western country.

And there you go. Defecto loves the bitch.

R81 He’s my new fave.

nobody doubted that for a second sweetie.

It was alright. The transition from high-minded French history speechifying (itself a bit on the nose) to down-in-the-dirt immigration talk and such was too abrupt.

[quote]I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh when he wins. The guy is a psycho, but the French can't resist virtue signaling when it comes to the US. It'll be nice to see them pay for lumping all Americans in with Trump.

I am getting out the popcorn right now. Finally someone else will be the idiots of the world.

I live in Switzerland and I read so many things in this thread that are totally false that I can't find the words. The whole of Europe knows what is happening in France at the moment and how serious the situation is. I don't think that Zemmour has a chance to win, I rather think that a civil war will break out. The French can't stand Muslims and their barbaric behaviors anymore and especially the fact they want to impose islam everywhere. You all here have no idea what is going on. The video at R12 and what the French and Zemmour are explaning is just the true.

Well it comes down to the fact diversity simply doesn't work some countries, even with the best intentions, noble rhetoric, and countless billions in cash thrown to solving the problems. Fine in America, but as everyone knows, it's been a wholesale utter disaster in the Nordic countries, Holland, Belgium, and parts of France.

A jew acting right winger-esque? What a joke. But considering rump shit stain had latinos/black Americans voting for him who'm are self loathing I'm not shocked..

But it's odd how rabid rightwingers and rabid jihad nut bags don't see eye to eye. Like they both hate gays with a fiery passion and they both hate women hmmm.

I laughed when he told Hapsatou Sy she should call herself Corinne.

So what, r87? Concentration camps? Be blunt, what are you talking about?

Belgium's policy in the Congo was a disaster too, r87. For the Congolese, who died in the millions to enrich Brussels.

[quote]Fine in America, but as everyone knows, it's been a wholesale utter disaster in the Nordic countries, Holland, Belgium, and parts of France.

Because the same racism rings true. Just like France, Belgium and most of the other countries do not integrate. You can live there, work there, raise a family there but you will NEVER be a countryman in their eyes, even several generations later.

[quote]So what, [R87]? Concentration camps? Be blunt, what are you talking about?

Hard borders, and a demand that migrants adhere to French values. Unlike hazy 'English values' these are quite cut and dried. You'll find, as in the video at R12, Zemmour has admirers amongst immigrants, who are fed up with those who come to France only to reject its values and wish to import their own. If you think he just has supporters amongst generational 'native' French, you'd be very wrong.

R94 Exactly. Jeez, again, they are asking if a Jew will open a concentration camp. The level on here is so despicable. They still don't get Zemmour is a Jew.

honestly, borders aren't actually the problem are they really r94? Isn't there a second and third generation of North African immigrants in France, born there, actual citizens? What are you saying for them? What are the cut and dried values of France, and how do you enforce those on even France born citizens?

[quote] fed up with those who come to France only to reject its values and wish to import their own

Wow, what a blatantly raciest and French statement.

Did it ever occur to you that you might benefit from other cultures?

Good decision when I blocked the crazy cunt looking for troubles who ruined the thread. It seems that he has a compulsive disorder or should I say compulsive comments disorder

You honestly think it has never occured to a Jew to open a concentration camp for Muslims, r95? You have a nice view of human nature, but I suspect it is not entirely accurate. Not that that is literally what is being requested, but everything is just a little vague right now. Forcing people to be "just like us" does lead us down a road that doesn't always end pleasantly for everyone involved.

[quote]Did it ever occur to you that you might benefit from other cultures?

France was happily welcomed the positive aspects of other cultures. It has no wish to adopt the worst aspects.

Americans simply can't grasp how raw the battle of values is in France. Or how deep the Charlie Hebdo murders were a slap in the face to every Frenchman. It's visceral.

[quote]Agree or disagree with him, he is expressing what the majority of the French are feeling.

If that's the case, he'll have no problem winning the election. No. The majority of the French don't share his feeling.

If the elites weren't so worried that the majority do share his views, they wouldn't be acting as they are.

Headline is a bit hyperbolic.

Believe it or not, some non elites aren't terribly thrilled to see alt right popping up everywhere all over the world.

There is no war in France, hon. Let’s dial it back a little and up the meds.

Bi polar delusions much?

[quote]France was happily welcomed the positive aspects of other cultures. It has no wish to adopt the worst aspects

That's not how the world works Toots. The French are not exactly a perfect lot to talk about bad habits.

This is a gay website not the manufactured European turmoil thread.

French people are passive, not to mention lazy and would just assume make love in the middle of the afternoon than to bother with war.

[quote] just assume

You know what they say about assuming…

[quote] France was the only colonizer who built roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, the French eradicated diseases that were rampant there, gave them larger land areas, ports, etc...

What? Looking at just Africa, former French colonies (Algeria, Senegal, Mali, Central African Republic, Madagascar) are all in a much worse developmental state than former British colonies (South Africa, Botswana, Kenya, Seychelles, Egypt).

R101 According to polls over the past 6 months, the majority of French people share Zemmour's sentiments. Nearly 93% of French people want to stop immigration. 67% of French people think that there is a great replacement, 89% of French people say that Macron is totally incompetent on the security of the country.

As in 67 percent of French people think there is a grand conspiracy to replace them with Algerians, r111? Really? What does that mean exactly?

[quote]French people are passive, not to mention lazy

Supposedly, on D-Day June 6th 1944 while Americans were landing on the beaches of Normandy to liberate France, there were hundreds of people sunbathing on a different beach carelessly indifferent to the war and killing going on the same day in their own country.

The West *is* at war. A war of cultural values.

Maybe r114, but the idea that it is a simple battle between "Western" values and Islamic values is not exactly the whole story. The West is trying to figure out what its values actually are. Lots of Nazis and Fascists trying to decide what Western values are, and I hope they lose.

France makes a point not to take racial and religious data of it's citizenry in keeping with its fake colourblind egalitarian pretences. So according to the French, there is no racism because they "don't see race". But a cursory glance of the country's elite and the rundown suburbs of most large cities tells you a different story. Very often, sports and entertainment are the only way for black and Arab people to extricate themselves from poverty. And the few that do it successfully almost always make sure to procreate with white partners to whiten their lineage because black and Arab kids will always be at a disadvantage no matter who their parents are.

Ok, there is no point in explaining things to complete ignoramuses who not only dare to call other countries racist when their own immigration laws are strict, but they are the last ones on Earth to be able to talk about racism or colonization. The pos in this thread are looking for fight as always. You all can think whatever you want but France couldn't care less what an ungrateful and treacherous country thinks of them. France does not betray its allies. And some people forget here that this country is America's first and oldest ally. Rather to talk about Zemmour they are talking about France ex colonies. At least the french can say "EX colonies" when you all are still in America.

Don't hate France, not even a little. Nobody answered me about this great betrayal of France by the U.S., and I assume nobody ever will because that apparently is a dogma that is just supposed to not be questioned. But I must confess to be a little curious about it. And actually, the U.S. can refer to the ex Colony of the Phillippines. Sorry, we don't have a lot, because honestly we never had that many colonies really. Sort of South Vietnam for awhile, but that didn't end too well for us, so we tend to get a little quiet about it.

But they're "ex-colonies" in name only. France continues to exert political and economic control even so far as imposing a currency administered from France that's designed to impoverish them for France's benefit. The French intervene militarily even when democratic elections pick governments they deem unfavourable. The France is a neo-colonial menace.

Oh the bastard keeps commenting hahaha i can't read your bullshit I told you already, keep your anus mouth closed.

you might learn a thing or two r120, but no, you have decided never to learn anything you don't already know. So I can't help you.

The world isn’t just filled with evil white people looking to oppress everyone. Why shouldn’t the French try to preserve their culture and way of life? There’s a difference between a melting pot and a takeover.

R119 LOL you think this propaganda is still working?

Agree r122, but France has kind of sucked at dealing with all the Muslims living there. I don't know if there is an easy answer, but just pretending that everything was totally fine until ISIS invented itself might not be strictly accurate either.

Americans are so naive when it comes to Muslims. Just wait until you have a sizable Muslim population in the US and you’ll be having the same problems Europe has.

R122 Because they want to conquer France. It's simple as that. What they want is the power. They victimize themselves wherever they go and use Western democratic systems against Westerners. The same problems occur in Belgium, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc... It is not only France. They don't care about colonisation, they just want the power.

R125 I think they are ignorant about muslim. They really are.

Numbers do make a difference. Can't deny it. Muslims are a very small percent of the overall American population. But even so, we have not done such a piss poor job as Europeans in dealing with the fact that they exist. You fucked it up, guys. You did. You need to try to unfuck it. You decided every Muslim could just be kept in a ghetto and fuck 'em.

We did that with black people, and have a serious problem on our hands because of our fuckery. So I sympathise, but you are not entirely innocent victims in all this. Like us.

R128 nailed it.

So many excuses about Muslims being the bad guys. Not their fault at all. Oh, it will happen to America. Well no not like France. Muslims here are mostly integrated into society, some the heads of very very powerful companies, with a lot of money, etc. The US has millions of Muslims, sure if you want to go on percentage France has more but like I said above, it's not about the quantity. That's such a intellectually lazy argument.

When you integrate, you have family, roots, business, friends, social standing, your life intertwined in a new country, not something you are going to want to take down. But when you are isolated and still treated like a 2nd class citizen, it's a hot bed of contempt and a breeding ground for bad things to happen.

Attacks, beheadings, stabbings, vehicular and bombing terror, Muslims in France (and Europe) have been in open conflict for decades with their host culture, attempting to supplant it for Islam. And Muslims will continue until they are weakened to no longer pose or Europe submits.

Yes, Europe fucked up. By continuing to accept Muslim migrants despite knowing decades ago that to do so created a socio-political nightmare.

Oh please, Americans lecturing the world about ghettos. Lol.

Go to Chicago, Oakland, or any major city in your country. What happened to Blacks? Go to Silicon Valley, and show me where the black community is.

that was sort of the point r131. it was pretty clear. Did you seriously not get it?

Ghettos were invented in Italy R131. Venice to be exact.

honestly, are people seriously this traumatized at the thought that their own country may be imperfect in any way? Really? Maybe it's the American in me, but it's just not that weird to know that your country may not have been absolutely perfect in every way in every period in history. Is it different in France?

[quote]Go to Silicon Valley, and show me where the black community is.

It's there, just look.

[quote]Go to Chicago, Oakland, or any major city in your country. What happened to Blacks?

I happened there.

Hmmm... Seems like Arabs, Turkish, are embedded on the DL

I want to give some of you a piece of perspective about "self loathing immigrants who support Trump" (see a post above).

I'm an immigrant in the US. I came here LEGALLY. It took me 20 years to go though several visas, then I obtained a green card, and eventually landed the citizenship. I worked hard, paid my taxes, never broke the law. Hell, I even feel grateful (I know, I know, some might find this cheesy).

I didn't vote for Trump. But why should I be happy about illegal immigrants coming here and not getting any consequences? I'm sure they have their reasons, and some people on here are quick at finding them excuses. But do you think the millions of people who, like me, followed the rules think it's fair? Guess what, we think it's an injustice, we think it's a betrayal and that we were held to a higher standard.

This is not about self-loathing. It's about fairness.

Oprah is one a million. You are stupid. Most African Americans are struggling in the US.

R138 PREACH!

yeah, that must be it, r137. Nobody can actually give a shit about anybody but their own race. Perfect stupid logic. In fact, nobody can even imagine that their ancestors were anything other than perfect paragons of virtue and wisdom, absolutely in every way. Yup, that must be the answer. Anything else is impossible.

From Jobs to Cook to Dorsey to Musk to Bezos to Gates to etc. All black. Open your eyes.

what country are you from r138? Yes, it absolutely makes all the difference. It totally does in every way, absolutely in every way.

The French cannot blame the US for the numbers of Muslims living in France. The displaced Muslims of Syria and Iraq in France are a tiny proportion compared to the Muslims who came to France from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and other places in North Africa as well as some of the desert nations of the Sahara that France also colonized. It is absolutely true that France has the largest number of Muslims living within its borders of any other country in central and western Europe by percentage - and they have had that honor for the past 50 years. (about 8%) The city of Paris has about 1.7 million Muslims in its metropolitan area, the largest number of any city in western or central Europe. It is also true that the Muslims are "ghettoized" in France. I stayed once in a cheap pension in a working class arrondissement in Paris in the mid-1980s and it was overwhelmingly Muslim. But they were nowhere to be found in the upscale central arrondissements.

"According to Michel Tribalat, a researcher at INED, people of Maghrebi origin in France represent 82% of the Muslim population (43.2% from Algeria, 27.5% from Morocco and 11.4% from Tunisia). Others are from sub-saharan Africa (9.3%) and Turkey (8.6%).[12] She estimated that there were 3.5 million people of Maghrebi origin (with at least one grandparent from Algeria, Morocco or Tunisia) living in France in 2005 corresponding to 5.8% of the total French metropolitan population (60.7 million in 2005).[13] Maghrebis have settled mainly in the industrial regions in France, especially in the Paris region. Many famous French people like Edith Piaf,[14] Isabelle Adjani, Arnaud Montebourg, Alain Bashung, Dany Boon and many others have varying degrees of Maghrebi ancestry."

“So many excuses about Muslims being the bad guys. Not their fault at all.”

Spoken like an ignorant American. I grew up among Muslims in Europe. The girls weren’t allowed to mingle with Westerners. They were married young, to Muslims, of course, and kept barefoot and pregnant. Not a chance to integrate and prosper, all done by their own families,

[quote]Oprah is one a million. You are stupid. Most African Americans are struggling in the US.

How many Muslims in France have had that chance?

And while the black community is still struggling a little more than the white community, there are many, many middle class and millionaires besides Oprah. Black people are in every echelon of society from Doctors and scientist to Sports Stars, Actors, Musicians, Congressman, Governors, Mayors, Chief of Police and even a President. Again I ask, how many Muslims in France have been allowed to achieve that?

[quote]Spoken like an ignorant American. I grew up among Muslims in Europe.

So Muslims in America are different that Muslims in France? Who's fault is that? What an odd conclusion.

I guess we got the good ones. Maybe those are words you would understand.

“I guess we got the good ones.”

Oh, yeah. Like the Boston bomber and Omar Mateen.

America separates "religion" from national identity. The rest of the world doesn't. Your belief system is an integral part of your national identity. In France, if you are not Catholic, you're not considered French. Just like in Algeria, if you're not Muslim, you're not considered Algerian.

Huh? France, like most of Europe, is secular. The USA claims to be secular, on paper (in God we trust on our cash though?) but in reality it’s hardly secular!!

Tarring every member of a group with the horrible actions of a few is called scapegoating. As a male white American, I would hate for people to associate me in any way with Kyle Rittenhouse, Dylann Roof, Dylan Kleebold (Columbine shooter), Timothy McVeigh, or a host of other really horrific individuals. But that never happens to me, because people don't say "you're a white male - obviously you're also a terrorist". I wouldn't deny that more Muslims are associated with radical fundamentalism proportionally than white non-Muslims in the US, (yes, we have a whole host of radical (and violent) radical Christian fundamentalists here, but they are a small proportion of the entire white population). However, as the FBI has pointed out numerous times with the statistics to prove it, radical Christian fundamentalists and white supremacists commit far more terrorist acts in the US than Muslims here do. So, by the logic here, I SHOULD be associated with those kind of people.

The reality is that the Muslims in the US are largely assimilated here and are less radical than those found in Europe. They also tend to have more tolerant views about things like homosexuality. I think we can only speculate as to the conditions in Europe that lead to more radicalization of Muslims there.

Zemmour has cast doubt on Dreyfus' innocence and claimed that by collaborating with the Nazis Petain was attempting to protect French Jews. Zemmour's own parents were Algerian Jews who came to France in the 1950s. His self-hatred has led him into a political sewer of ignorance and racism.

This humorless French cunt has popped up on many threads screeching about how American wokeism is "enraging" Europeans in general and the French in particular and how there will be dire consequences.

What are you going to do?

Pee on us?

Eat shit, frog.

Find yourself a Fascist website in France to amuse yourself with.

During the Merkel/refugee crisis - when Eastern European countries were being pressured to take more muslim refugees - a Czech politician (I forget who) said something along the lines of we (in the Czech Republic) eat pork, drink beer, and are not religious.

Doesn't sound like an ideal destination for someone whose culture and values are totally opposite. Maybe muslims suck at living in France, R124?

I wonder if westerners successfully integrate into islamic cultures?

[quote]The reality is that the Muslims in the US are largely assimilated here and are less radical than those found in Europe.

"Radical" is a Western invention, unknown to 1.7 billion Muslims. The reality is that Muslims in the US are no different to Muslims in Europe. There are simply fewer of them.

[quote]They also tend to have more tolerant views about things like homosexuality.

Assumption.

[quote]I think we can only speculate as to the conditions in Europe that lead to more radicalization of Muslims there.

The condition is called "European mindlessness", accepting migrants who find European culture and values anathema.

Actually r155, there have been numerous polls and studies supporting my point of view. And your evidence......?

Skip down to opinions about social issues in the linked polling article:

[quote]Actually [R155], there have been numerous polls and studies supporting my point of view. And your evidence......?

Actually R156 polls and studies are highly subjective. Especially Pew. Who continues to confound by eliciting and presenting "polls and studies" based on personal information from Muslim societies where providing an opinion to a stranger is never, ever done because it can get you killed. Or worse.

Or putting it far more simply R156, homosexuality is a crime and socially abhorrent in 57 Muslims countries. Muslims don't suddenly become homo-friendly or tolerant the day their US migration application is accepted.

Exactly. But just as they raced to belittle themselves by taking the knee, some people would happily throw themselves into the fire if it made muslims happy.

Asshole is basically the French William Buckley?

R134 All Americans DO is self-flagellate. Enough. I think borders are reasonable.

[quote] homosexuality is a crime and socially abhorrent in 57 Muslims countries

As it still is in many Christian countries.

[quote]Actually [R156] polls and studies are highly subjective.

You know what's more subjective? Some annoyances Euro Trash posting here in the DL claiming to know all about over 1 billion Muslims think.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Religion has always been a tool for people of power to use to control and brainwash the masses. All the wars it's caused shows how hypocritical it all is.

Muslims can say whatever they want in opinion polls, r164, and most of them know the correct answer to state that shows how "assimilated" and definitely non-threatening they are. Now look at the results of a poll that actually mattered, like the Australian Marriage Postal Survey. The electoral divisions that had the highest "No" vote also had the highest numbers of minority and Muslim voters, shockingly enough.

Oh for fucks sake R166. I know several people who are Muslims personally, one who is openly gay. It's not a problem here in the US. Get over yourself. You know nothing about American society. As proof you cant fathom it's different from your Ethnocentric beliefs.

This

Oh cool - a French Brexit! A Frexit! Kick out all the dirty foreigners and wonder why there's no more food on the shelves of the grocery store and why there's no staff in the old folks home and why the economy is contracting.

Good idea!

And while you're at it, go try and re-conquer Vietnam. It worked out so well the last time. Then complain that there are too many dirty Vietnamese people!

Pointing out a couple of gay muslims R167 doesn't alter the votings FACTS R166 detailed, however much you want to prance, dance, and ass kiss round it.

R11 I do not blame you. I live in the US and between gentrification of our cities, crime and social decay it is not an enjoyable place to be anymore. If a politician were to run with a campaign geared toward fixing these things I would vote for them. Trump was a nightmare but someone more sensible and intelligent, yes. I absolutely hate living in a violent country of thoughts and prayers. Its wearing very thin on me.

And R10 knows that all cities in the US are violent shit-holes ...how?

His comparative survey? Or does he just watch SkyNews and get off on Crime Porn?

[quote]get off on Crime Porn

Pics please.

[quote]homosexuality is a crime and socially abhorrent in 57 Muslims countries

[quote]As it still is in many Christian countries.

And yet it is in Xtian countries that gays have found legal protection, unknown in Muslim countries.

R169 is obviously completely ignorant of European history or that Europeans have repeatedly kicked Muslims out of their countries over the past 1,300 years.

Thank you OP. I love Zemmour for stating what all Europeans are feeling - that our cultural heritage is slipping through our fingers.

[quote]I don't think that Zemmour has a chance to win

I was living in Europe in early 2016, and someone in a course I was taking asked if Donald Trump would win. I laughed and swore up and down it wasn't going to happen...he was just running for the attention. Several months later, I walked into class in complete disbelief.

Merkel's hand-picked successor was guaranteed to be the next Chancellor, the UK was going to remain a key member of the EU, Russia is content with the Crimea and has no greater ambition regarding The Ukraine, and war in the Balkans is a distant memory, incapable of re-emerging. But life has a way of reminding us nobody can predict the future.

It seems like all of Europe is moving to the right so why not France? It is also being affected by certain”woke” issues that affect the French language. I can see a backlash to that. The US is so different from Erupe that it’s kind of useless to compare them. The US is a lot bigger and can absorb a lot more immigrants. France is relentlessly secular and the US has freedom of religion. So very different.

Crêpes Suzette!

R153 You sound intelligent. /s

R180 They always get in a rage and start hurling curses.

R178 it’s no longer about right vs left. It’s nationalism vs globalism.

French culture is racist in different ways than American culture.

For example, black "race" citizens. If a CITIZEN is black and speaks perfect French and is from France or from a former black colony, or from anywhere, sometimes, the French will say that person is FRENCH first. Not "black". Even conservative French people see it this way. race is not the FIRST category used to divide and stereotype people. Language, culture, and religion are more important categorizing tools ahead of RACE.

As it should be.

[quote]It’s nationalism vs globalism.

Uh, no R182. It's about what it's been about since the 7th century when the followers of the Prophet rode north out of Arabia to spread The Word. Dar al Harb and Dar al Islam. Islam against the Infidel. The rest is Western gullibility and complicity.

Also Algeria was departmentalized in 1848. It was no longer a colony. It was FRANCE. Also in 1947 all Algerian men were full French citizens.

In short the majority of French people have been relatively color blind for a century. What concerns them is that people be "culturally" French.

Far right agit-prop has disturbed this enlightened color blindness to some extent. Like USA, France and other countries have gone backwards a bit. Its because the multiculturalism forced upon rich countries to meet labour and population growth needs, stresses out the "conservative" mind.

How many white politicians of major countries could do this?

[quote] Did it ever occur to you that you might benefit from other cultures?

What ‘benefit’ might that be? That homosexuals should be executed and women should have the status of cattle? The ‘values’ these groups cling to are anathema to civilized western society. Christianity get criticized CONSTANTLY (and rightly) in the west. Try that with islam and get murdered.

[quote] The French are not exactly a perfect lot to talk about bad habits.

‘Whatabout-ism’ is not exactly a perfect response to criticism.

But the tasty cuisine!

My ancestors on my mother's side come from Brittany, and I hope to visit there some day when this pandemic insanity is over. So this thread is interesting to me.

Carry on.

The most Rest Is History podcast is on Napoleon in Egypt and they mentioned Zemmour, saying he looks like Gollum from LOTR fame. They also claimed that the animosity between Islam and France came from Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, though I think that's very simplistic.

You have to know that Macron is secretly paying nightly visits to Notre Dame to light candles thanking Our Lady for sending in Zemmour to siphon votes from Le Pen.

The far right vote will split, probably giving Macron, whose poll ratings are in the crapper, a first- round majority.

As Zemmour knows quite well that he won't get all of Le Pen's votes, nor does he have a snowball's chance of changing the drapes in the Elysee Palace, one must ask why he's doing it NOW.

Just guessing, but part of it is narcissistic egoism, to gain an international following for his ideas and issues. To big himself up a few notches, as it were.

Because he knows he can't win, and if he were really interested in the far right wielding more power, he wouldn't be ensuring its loss in the first round by taking votes from Le Pen.

To me, this looks not unlike Trump deciding to run: because he could.

Only Zemmour won't win. But he'll go global in a way he mightn't have otherwise.

I love the way anti-Muslim bigots couch their xenophobia and racism in concern for women and gays. We all know how concerned the Right is about reproductive and sexual freedom.

It's funny - all the straight people who fucked me up as a kid did it in the name of Jesus.

[quote]I love the way anti-Muslim bigots...

I feel about Evangelicals the way I feel about observant Muslims.

Islam = Submission = Murder

It seems kind of cynical for a man whose politics are in line with Marine Le Pen invoking the name of the dead Jean-Paul Belmondo, who explicitly voiced his dislike of her politics and said he only voted in France's last election because he didn't want her to win.

[quote] Marine Le Pen

It was discussed before she is different from this new man.

Go ahead, do it. Make him King. Cant wait to watch Paris is Burning, only this time it wont be with Madonna and a bunch of drag queens.

Let us know when the riots start. Telling you now, it's not going to be like the civilized French labor riots of the past, think Bataclan bombings and shootings only all over the city nothing will be off limits. Goodby Eiffel Tower, Goodby Louvre, Arc de Triomphe, Notre-Dame. Paris is going to look like French Beruit.

R199 Believes submission is the only answer.

Immigration just isn't popular anywhere; no matter how much the media pushes it. Zemmour gets that.

Yeah, Trump got that too. Although a lot more than people bargained for came with that anti-immigration policy. Good Luck France, nice knowing you.

People who resist change always end up on the losing side. Always. French conservatives trying to hold on to an idea of France that's slipping away fast and no one can stop it.

R203 You are wrong.

Immigration is not popular with the overwhelming majority of the French.

Macron knows that as well;.

Submission? Um no, I just witnessed what low class uneducated people will do if you give them the leader that tells them what they want to hear. Go ahead, try it, no skin off my back. But dont come back here a year later crying about how you didn't expect things to go as bad as people warned you. Dont be crying when they blow up one of your favorite monument is retaliation to how they get treated. Dont complain that you cant visit places because the city becomes a police state trying to prevent constant attacks.

[quote]Macron knows that as well;.

Then why hasn't he stopped it, r204? Viktor Orbán style? He's been president more than four years and his party dominates the assembly. What's stopping him if that's what he wants?

[quote] Then why hasn't he stopped it

"There are too many of us. They won't do anything".

(Muslim shop keeper responding to a reporter's question before the 2017 elections about being afraid of Marie Le Pen being elected .)

Push the boats back into the sea. We have sufficient.

I wonder which monument will be destroyed first? How many people will die in the next terrorist attack?

Tour Montparnasse—it’s hideous!

Latest polling shows support for him falling, LePen rising and Macron steady.

What will happen is whichever rightwinger faces Macron in the second round will lose as leftists vote for the lesser evil Macron.

[quote] vote for the lesser evil

A history show on TV said they did the same for De Gaulle in the olden days.

Will they bring back the Guillotine?

The guy has some good points. Sorry not sorry.

The French like to claim there's no racism in France.

Ha, ha, that's a Sure Jan for sure.

R205 And we are also seeing what happens when criminals are emboldened by the left because they are products of the system. There has to be a sensible middle ground somewhere.

But the problem is R218, you don't want a "sensible middle". You want far right. Which will be far worse than far left. In America, all of our major attacks seem to come from the far right ideology. Even 9/11 was a religious based far right belief system that pushed the idea that America was the Great Satin. We have not had far left violence since the 1960's really.

I was in Paris in 2018, and I had a taxi driver who asked where I was from. He said he was Algerian, I braced for him to start going off when I told him I'm from America. However, he went on and on about how much he wish he lived there, and how much he loved basketball.

He then started trashing France, saying how horrible and racist the people are, so I asked how long he lived there (in an attempt to calm him down). Turns out he was born and raised in Paris! I thought he was a recent migrant, but his parents had moved from Algeria before he was born.

France had made such a huge dispaly of efforts meant to make Muslims feel like they belonged, especially after the November 13th attacks, but they clearly continue to have issues.

r220, grandchildren of people who immigrated to France from it's African colonies back in the 60s and 70s still identify with the country of origin even if they've never been.

You can alway tell when someone on social media is French. They rant about “you Americans” and “Anglo-Saxon society” and are perpetually irate .

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^^ the violent protesters - primarily muzzies - don't see that they reinforce what Zemmour says about them by this behavior?

Zemmour wants to send back foreign nationals who have been on the dole for years. He's right. Just do it.

[quote]France had made such a huge dispaly of efforts meant to make Muslims feel like they belonged, especially after the November 13th attacks, but they clearly continue to have issues.

That's the problem it's all about appearances. On the ground they are racist white Euro trash. Oh but in public, they are the most open and liberal country that ever lived. If you judge them by their actions and not their words, you have a totally different story.

From afar, it looks as though the French are at least being seriously provoked.

Muslims would love to kill him for his policies but also because he's Jewish. His security team was woeful in this instance.

R225 has obviously lived in France, r 226 obviously not.

[quote]From afar, it looks as though the French are at least being seriously provoked.

From afar, do you mean the outskirts of Paris? From over the pond it's clearly racial tension bubbling up through decades of problems. You have to be blind to think the minority is provoking the majority just for the fun of it. Ask yourself what the root cause of that is. Countries that are well integrated don't seem to be provoking one another.

It's your job as the host country to integrate migrants into society. If France was a big 20 room house and there was a fire down the hill that burned the local village, they decide to offer to take some people in. You can stay in our old dirty shed out back, but at least its a roof over your head. Then France brags to the neighbors how kind they are.

Meanwhile, the guest in the shed have no food, jobs, water, clothing and are there to fend for themself. The owner of the house will not bring them inside, will not feed them, give them a job. Last thing they would ever do is actually try to get to know them. You will NEVER be part of our family, NEVER! Eventually, the house guests out back need to eat, they break into the house and all hell breaks lose. France then complains, see, THOSE people are ungrateful. Lets higher a security guard to keep them in their place.

But oh, you Americans are so racist 🙄

[quote]It's your job as the host country to integrate migrants into society.

No. It most certainly is not. Migrants chose to migrate, and It's up to them to find a modus vivendi to live peacefully with the host culture. Muslims never have. Or will. See France. See Britain. See Germany. See Sweden. See Belgium.

[quote]they decide to offer to take some people in.

No sane homeowner stands by silently while those to whom he has provided shelter demand that he must behave and live according to their diktats or they will blow up his house.

[quote]Migrants chose to migrate, and It's up to them to find a modus vivendi to live peacefully with the host culture

Yes, it is your job, you took them in, you are the host. You could have turned them away if you didn't want to deal with it. But once you accept people into your country, who speak a different language, have a different culture it is in fact YOUR JOB to help them. Otherwise you will have ghettos of crime and poverty. Sort of like what France has now. No wonder you guys are having problems.

[quote]No sane homeowner stands by silently while those to whom he has provided shelter demand that he must behave and live according to their diktats or they will blow up his house.

No sane owner would tell people they can stay in the shed then refuse to feed them or help them or get a job in your community and expect only good things to happen.

Do any of you stupid queens realize that Zemmour is also anti-gay?

[quote]France. See Britain. See Germany. See Sweden. See Belgium

Oh you mean those ALL WHITE countries? One of which is world famous for exterminating millions of Jewish people? You are not winning the argument here.

[quote] You could have turned them away if you didn't want to deal with it.

R232 You must have been sleeping through the year of 2015.

Everyone and everything was zinging with Emotional Blackmail.

[quote]Do any of you stupid queens realize that Zemmour is also anti-gay?

Not surprised, racism and homophobia often go hand in hand.

Emotional blackmail? Oh, now you are the victim? Let me get out the violins. Anyone ever tell you don't bit off more than you can chew?

You sound like those anti-abortion freaks. The LOVE the fetus, but after it's born, not going to help take care of it.

He’s a homophobe and a misogynist.

In Le premier sexe, he claims the existence of the "devirilisation" of society during the 20th century and asserts that women and homosexuals have been used as a reserve army to satisfy modern capitalism's need for consumers. He believes that man is by nature a sexual predator who uses violence. In a parallel to this definition of virility as sexual predation, he believes that certain eras defined the role of women better than others.

[quote]Yes, it is your job, you took them in, you are the host. You could have turned them away if you didn't want to deal with

R232 Uh, no. It is the MIGRANT'S job to settle in and contribute to the host society. As has been done by migrants for thousands in years in myriad countries. Accepting migrants is providing opportunities to the migrant by the host society. It is the migrant's responsibility to make full use of those opportunities. You might want to keep that in mind.

[quote]Oh you mean those ALL WHITE countries? One of which is world famous for exterminating millions of Jewish people?

R235 What has almost two millennia of Catholic and Protestant Church fomented Jew hatred to do with Muslim inability to live peacefully within non-Muslim cultures???

[quote]No sane owner would tell people they can stay in the shed then refuse to feed them or help them or get a job in your community and expect only good things to happen.

R233 Migrants are provided benefits unheard of in their own countries. They should be used to establish and progress within the host society. But settling in and progressing is impossible for migrants who find the values of the host society anathema and repugnant. Ergo, the decades of socio-political problems seen in France. And Britain. And Germany. Etc.

[quote] It is the migrant's responsibility to make full use of those opportunities.

That's the key issue, France IS NOT PROVIDING THE OPPORTUNITIES. No one will hire them for regular good paying jobs, or make an effort to welcome them into the fold. Handing out benefits is not providing opportunity it's keeping them dependent on handouts. It's only natural then to self isolate instead of integrate if the host country people want nothing to do with you.

When you have a part and someone comes to your house who just met do you expect them to be the cook, the entertainer, the star of the party? No, it's your job to make them welcome, show them around, introduce them to people, not send them to the bedroom and wonder why they are not making an effort to get to know you.

[quote]What has almost two millennia of Catholic and Protestant Church fomented Jew hatred to do with Muslim inability to live peacefully within non-Muslim cultures???

You are twisting the argument around. You said all those other all white countries are having problems with Muslim. I said it's not a surprise since they have problems with all sorts of people who are not just like them. They went to war over that to keep their countries "pure". The exact way Parisians act right now with their immigrants.

I don't think it can be boiled to down to something as simple as "fault of France" and "fault of the migrants" - this is a chicken and egg situation. There has to be active trust and cooperation between the migrant and the government, which there is not.

The purity argument is misleading. France, unlike the United States (which many posters on here seem to believe is the uniform for everything) has always been a country where people are encouraged to throw away their ethnic/religious ties in the name of a national identity. It has never been a melting pot. For example, many French icons are not French by ethnic origin - those listed above in Zemmour's speech include Aznavour (Armenian) and Belmondo (Italian). The recent crop of immigrants does not want to do this which causes tension. You can't drop a Muslim from an African country into the middle of Paris and expect it to be smooth sailing.

[quote]You can't drop a Muslim from an African country into the middle of Paris and expect it to be smooth sailing.

That's my point though, you cant just drop a total stranger into your society and say "here's a couple Euros, figure it out". If you are going to do that then a logical rational adult will realize they need to do the reaching out at first to help them get started. And reaching out is not just paying benefits. Reaching out is as they say teaching them to fish. Give them a job, make them feel welcome. Show them how it's done. You cant just leave them to their own devices. Which kind of is what France has done. Turned into a terrorist breeding ground.

[quote]France IS NOT PROVIDING THE OPPORTUNITIES.

R241 Migrants are provided with a carte de sejour/residence permit. THAT'S the opportunity. The rest is up to the migrant. You might want to remember that.

[quote]You are twisting the argument around

R242 And you are ignoring/ignorant of the history of Jews in Europe, the history of Muslims in Europe, Asia and Africa, as well as about Muslims/Islam.

[quote]You can't drop a Muslim from an African country into the middle of Paris and expect it to be smooth sailing.

R243 Then France (or England or Germany, etc.) should never have accepted or continued to accept migrants for whom Western values/lifestyles were impossible to peacefully absorb. But they did. For decades. Despite realizing what a huge socio-political nightmare they were creating.

R244 I agree with you, but many of these Muslims (not most, but many) simply don't want to assimilate into French society as other immigrant groups have done in the past. What happens then? You can't force that kind of assimilation of people.

[quote]Migrants are provided with a carte de sejour/residence permit. THAT'S the opportunity. The rest is up to the migrant.

FAIL. That's a recipe for failure. Want proof? Just look at the mess that type of thinking has caused.

A lot of Americans have a Sofia Coppola-style fetishisation of all things European and a Parisian chic but the true fact of the matter is the the USA is a much more free, egalitarian, liberal society than France.

The USA allows people to be themselves so long as they do no harm. America makes it easier to integrate and to enjoy life. It is much, much, much more difficult to be a black person, or a Muslim, or a religious Jew in France. France actively prevents integration.

And I say this as a Francophile.

[quote]That's my point though, you cant just drop a total stranger into your society and say "here's a couple Euros, figure it out".

R244 But that's exactly how migrants are treated in every country. There are both public and private organizations to assist with settling in. But it's up to the migrant to "figure it out". That's how it is when you migrate. It's up to you.

[quote] Just look at the mess that type of thinking has caused.

R247 The mess is caused by decades of woefully misguided migrant/immigration policies. The mess is caused by accepting migrants who have no desire to develop a modus vivendi with the host society, demand that you submit to their values/culture. The mess is caused by successive governments turning a blind eye, not taking responsibility for their political decisions. And most of all, the mess is caused by the hell-bent on destruction continuation of the aforementioned.

[quote]many of these Muslims (not most, but many) simply don't want to assimilate into French society

America has all sorts of people who move to the US and they all seem to integrate over time, including Muslims. You have to ask yourself then, if that's possible, why not in France? What is France as a country or as a people doing to make it seem so bad to become a part of it?

The answer is most likely they feel unwelcome or flat out rejected and develop adversity to the French culture. Most societies when they truly welcome other people into their country regardless of race, ethnicity, religion will become one of them if they are given that opportunity. If you treat them like a brother. But if you treat them like second class citizen, that you just co-exist with, then well you get a situation like France. Are there any Muslims in key potions of society or government there?

[quote]The answer is most likely they feel unwelcome or flat out rejected and develop adversity to the French culture.

R250 should be asking why Muslims are the only minority with modus vivendi problems in Europe (and Asia and Africa). Jews don't have it. Neither do Southeast Asians. Neither do South Asians. Or British. Or Spanish. Or Italians.

[quote]But that's exactly how migrants are treated in every country. There are both public and private organizations to assist with settling in. But it's up to the migrant to "figure it out". That's how it is when you migrate. It's up to you.

No it's not like that in every country. Maybe in France it is, not in America. In the US when you get past all the BS on TV most people are friendly, even the right wing nuts. It's customary to welcome people of all kinds into your house. To welcome the new neighbors over who you don't know. Maybe even help them out if you can. You own a business, have an opening? Maybe offer them a job. We are all the same countryman and therefore even if your neighbor is very different from you, at the end of the day it's considered polite, good manners, and decent behavior as a human being to help those that are less fortunate than you. And visa versa, it's fun being invited over to their place to see how they live, what their food is like etc. That's how communities are formed. I guess it's not like that in Euro countries like it is in the US. I know Italy is more welcoming like that.

[quote]should be asking why Muslims are the only minority with modus vivendi problems in Europe (and Asia and Africa). Jews don't have it. Neither do Southeast Asians. Neither do South Asians. Or British. Or Spanish. Or Italians.

LOL Right, like there have never been wars between those countries. Jews? Really? Do you have any clue about Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Building settlements on Palestinian land than they retaliate with bombers and the Israel retaliates with rockets and missiles.

[quote]LOL Right, like there have never been wars between those countries

R253 Don't pretend to be stupid. Migrants of different ethnicities and races in Europe live peacefully within their host societies. Muslims don't. And THAT'S the problem, the principle cause of "the mess".

Then explain why Muslims in other non Euro countries don't have a problem? Like I said, not really an issue in the US. And we have almost 2 million Muslims. You cant just blame that on low numbers.

Diversity has been a disaster in the U.S. too. It destroyed this country.

R255 obviously doesn't read a newspaper. And obviously ignores what doesn't suit. Muslims are not an "issue" in America? You're gay? On a gay board? And you make a ludicrous statement like that? You should be ashamed that I have to remind you that it was a Muslim who walked into a gay nightclub and butchered 52 gay people. Or that it was Muslims who slammed jet planes into the World Trade Center.

Muslims are a social problem from the Atlantic to the Arafura Sea, wreaking havoc in Africa and Asia, shooting up shopping malls, murdering shoppers who say they are NOT Muslim, kidnapping children, terrorizing populaces, bombing hotels, beheading infidels and ramming innocents with vehicles at bus stops. It might help to remember that suicide belts and vehicular rammings were tested and perfected on the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and then exported by Muslims to Europe, Asia and Africa. It might also help to remember that Europe has a 1,500 year history of repeated Muslim invasion, none of which they viewed as a positive development.

America is still in its infancy vis-a-vis its dealings with Muslims. Hopefully, America will be smart enough to formulate its migrant policies on Europe's experiences.

[quote]Diversity has been a disaster in the U.S. too. It destroyed this country.

Are you high? It's what built this country.

[quote]Diversity has been a disaster in the U.S. too. It destroyed this country.

Agreed. Now take your white man culture and go back to Europe.

The so called Native Americans actually came from Asia dear. Weren't they killing each other for millennia before the white man arrived.

[quote] Muslim who walked into a gay nightclub and butchered 52 gay people. Or that it was Muslims who slammed jet planes into the World Trade Center.

We have white "Christians" that do that in America. Oklahoma City bombing?, the Uni-bomber? Olympic Park bombing? The Vegas Harvest Festival mass shooting The attack on the US Capital this year by almost all by white right wing conservatives?

[quote]The so called Native Americans actually came from Asia dear.

Actually as someone who is part Native American if you are going to take it back thousand of years lets just take it a little farther, we all came from Africa. Take a DNA test, it will tell you exactly where you came from. Native Americans were the first on the land in the US to make it their home for over 12,000 years before the white man came.

[quote]Weren't they killing each other for millennia before the white man arrived.

Hu? Are you talking about the US? Well duh, your ancestors were too busy fighting over in Europe for millennia. Been fighting since the days of the Roman empire and even before that.

If Muslims feel so discriminated against, ignored and unwelcomed in Europe, then why do they continue to invade by the thousands each month? Why not head for Saudi Arabia or Qatar or Jordan or Dubai or Kuwait or Iran, where they were be welcomed with open arms and treated with respect and acceptance by their Muslim brothers. Oh . . . wait . . .

[quote]We have white "Christians" that do that in America. Oklahoma City bombing?,

R261 Irrelevant deflection. The subject is Muslims and their inability to live peacefully with anyone, or as highly erroneously stated in R255 "don't have trouble in non European countries". But you have made a good point about halting Muslim immigration; America has enough local bombers and shouldn't be importing more.

A short list of European wars. HUNDREDS of them, every fucking century.

[quote]Been fighting since the days of the Roman empire and even before that.

R263 R265 Humans have been fighting one another since the day they crawled out of the slime and learned to stand on two feet. In Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, etc. It's called the human condition, not restricted to a particular race or ethnicity.

That's my point, everyone has been fighting everyone since the beginning of time. To say it's only Muslims is ridiculous.

R267 The subject is Muslims and their inability to live peacefully in non-Muslim societies such as France. You are deflecting. Yet again.

Oh and lets not forget, the new war that is brewing between Russia getting ready to invade Crimea. They are moving thousands of troops there as we speak. Of course the US will be dragged into it so Russia doesn't invade other near by countries in Europe. We will have to saver your ass again. But oh, Americans are the worst by your standards. Cant you fight your own wars?

R268 Now you're REALLY deflecting because you no longer have a response to the topic of Muslims and their inability to live peacefully with anyone, including each other. Whelp, it's been a slice.

And you ignore that Muslims and and do live peacefully in non-Muslim societies like the US. The majority of our attacks are not from Muslims. The vast majority of Muslims in the US are peaceful Americans. Something you cant see as a blind Eurocentric foreigner. It destroys your theory that they are the problem and not the real issues which you keep ignoring that France has failed as a people to activity engage in social integration. No, it's all their fault, you want them to do it first. Well good luck with that. How's that working out for you?

^^^ R269, not R268 ^^^

[quote]And you ignore that Muslims and and do live peacefully in non-Muslim societies like the US.

ONLY in your blinkered, biased little world. Take those blinkers off. Then you'll see names like Mateen. And Tsanaev. And Farook. And Atta. And Yousef. And Jarrah. And al Omari. And al Ghamdi.

[quote] No, it's all their fault, you want them to do it first. Well good luck with that. How's that working out for you?

It is their fault. Their culturally inability to live with any other culture in a civil manner. Whether it's in Europe, Africa or Asia. Or America. Pointing the finger at white folk is not the solution. It's part of the problem.

Typical French =Always someone else's fault. How classic can this conversation be.

R274 and all your other sock puppets. Do you not understand the logical fallacy of correlation vs. causation? Yes, no one is disputing that there have been Muslim terrorist acts in the US. That does not mean that Muslims are incapable of living in a civil manner with non-Muslims, any more than my being a white male means that I'm as much of a terrorist as Timothy McVeigh. It is true that the Quran preach exclusion. So did Christian scriptures until they were "softened" in the past century - hence the horrific anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim actions (and anti-GAY actions) of Christian countries in the past. . I would say that culturally, Muslims are now about where Christians were 100 years ago. But that's not an insurmountable distance.

[quote]Americans do not understand that Europeans are the natives of their own country. France is constantly under attacks on its soil, especially since it has followed the US in its endless wars in Muslim countries and has had to take thousands and thousands of refugees. So I think that when you drag your allies into conflicts that they pay with their lives on their soil, you have the decency not calling them racists.

Poor France! Led astray by America...one of the world's leading arms exporters, supplying Muslim despots with their arms, in the Middle East, as well as arming despots in Africa. And France is up to quite a bit of mischief on its own in its former colonies. No they made their bed and they can sleep in it. I have been to San Denis to visit the first gothic cathedral (Abby Sugar's masterpiece) and I saw the squalor and dysphoria so clearly present in that neighborhood. Sequestered, ignored, allowed to live in forgotten poverty. Completely generational, which makes it a condition that sociologists will continue to study for decades to try to uncover solutions.

France and the US are similar in many ways.

Thank the gods that the US is in a continent of shared values - imagine if the Mexican government banned girls from schools!

I wanted to clarify it is FRANCE that is one of the world's largest arm exporters...

Romans built a number of coliseums and such in Algeria - and here is one in Timgad used today for music festivals.

[quote]Yes, no one is disputing that there have been Muslim terrorist acts in the US. That does not mean that Muslims are incapable of living in a civil manner with non-Muslims,

R276 And you keep those blinders firmly in place. That way, you don't have to see or acknowledge Muslim terror in Europe, Asia and Africa, Muslim open conflict with non-Muslim societies, Muslim history or Islam.

You might want to start with the basic tenet of Islam, that it is perfect, because the Prophet said so. That perfection cannot evolve, reform or progress. Tha your comparison to Xtianity is ludicrous ignorance.

Just expel the muslims from France. They're ungrateful charity cases who want to impose their will on the cultural capital of the world.

French Jews have been emigrating to Israel to escape these savages and their constant harassment Bleeding heart Americans have zero knowledge of what is happening in France and per usual they blame the victims.

French Jews are fleeing to NYC as well to escape the muzzies who out number them 15 to 1.

[quote]Americans have zero knowledge of what is happening in France and per usual they blame the victims.

You cant claim victim when you are the majority by 95% of the population in your own country Dear. That's quite a stretch.

R281, your video clearly stats it's not just Muslims, it the French people themselves on the far right and white supremacist who are driving them out. How convenient you forgot to mention that.

R283 So what do you call people who are attacked, beheaded, stabbed, murdered, blown up, run over and terrorized in their own country?

R284 And how convenient you completely ignore R282. And the tens of thousands of Jews who have been run out of their homes and cities by Muslims making their lives untenable.

Basically I think it's clear that a lot of people in France want the Jews out, not just Muslims.

It's Muslims at the forefront of attacking and murdering Jews.

I thought this was going to be a thread where Eldergays reminisced about the hot Resistance guys they'd known, and, given DL, hot Nazis.

I despise Zemmour for his hypocrisy, but the kind of thuggery displayed in the streets of French is evidence of more than just bad manners. It is part of the overall unravelling of human society predicted in 1972, helped along by the "multiculturalism" and "our diversity is our strength" myths that are slowly destroying the cultural bonds that held countries in the West, especially Northern and Western Europe, together.

It will happen faster in the messy, fatuous, narcissistic West, as the authoritarian strongmen elsewhere will hold their countries together for longer. Eventually, though, the massive growth human society has gone in for will do for them, too.

The thuggery won't do Macron any favours, either - it will make the point for Le Pen, and put Macron on the back foot re defence of liberal society again.

Austria and France, by the way, have some of the largest anti-vaxx crowd in the West. People think it's just dumb rightwing Americans, but it isn't

As Yeats said, "The centre cannot hold."

Yeah R284 is full of shit. This has been studied and it is Muslim antisemitism that is driving Jews out of France. I have already posted the article with this info last year and you can get off your ass and educate yourself with google.

R291 is correct

Many of the Jews in France are also North African and live in the same neighborhoods so are exposed to the antisemitism on a constant basis, as opposed to the Ashkenazi Jews in Neuilly who don't see it.

Here you go Muslim apologist R284

In 16 surveys conducted over the last 12 years in Europe, “anti-Semitism is significantly higher among Muslims than among non-Muslims,” Mr. Jikeli wrote.

“There is a kind of norm of anti-Semitism, of viewing Jews negatively,” he said in an interview.

Muslim leaders in France express outrage over the accusations. They dismiss the detailed findings of the researchers and argue that the “new anti-Semitism” catchphrase wrongly places broad-brush blame on the country’s Muslims — and at a time when anti-Muslim bigotry is rising in France and elsewhere in Europe.

You see how it goes R248 Muslims are such a protected class that they can't be accused of attacking and killing Jews in France (which they have been doing more and more of) because of that. So the blame is put on white nationals. Nonsense. The Jews that managed to survive white supremacy and extermination are being driven out because they are not being afforded the protections that Muslims get.

That's fine France. Drive away the Jews and now you are left with those who have very different ideas about one runs a society and life.

[quote]So the blame is put on white nationals.

Because it's far easier to turn a blind eye to attacks, murders and terror, especially when Jews are the targets, to blame "white nationalists" or "Nazis" or "racists" or "Islamophobes" than to take responsibility for the political decisions/migrant policies of successive governments for decades.

Getting away with murder. Muslim murderer of Jewish woman in France does not have to stand trial.

Maybe the French shouldn't have gone out and colonized a good chunk of the world if they were so concerned with the purity of their home country.

Of course they would have conquered more, but they kept losing colonial wars.

In all fairness, R60, French media outlets were calling Zemmour "le Trump français" long before Americans became aware of him.

R296 France had no problem with its former colonials from Southeast Asia or Polynesia or Haiti or Martinique or Xtian Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians, or Africans, all of whom found opportunity and a means of living peacefully in France. The problems started in the late 1970s when France accepted Muslims, a problem which has exacerbated into a socio-political nightmare with on-going legal and illegal Muslim migrants/invaders.

And the latest edition of Dutch news weekly "De Groene Amsterdammer" also makes the Trump comparison:

And if France hadn't colonized certain sections of the world, then the British, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Portuguese, or, hell, even the Swedish (who had some overseas colonies for a while) would have done so.

And a thousand years before the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese even knew it existed, Muslims had conquered/colonized Africa and Asia.

I think the problem on this thread is that people assume every country should be/aspires to be a melting pot like the United States, which has never had a central monoculture like France.

R289 I too, wish we were talking about French guys. Zemmour name-drops hotties like Alain Delon and Jean-Paul Belmondo and all you queens can do is talk about hate crimes......

A religions that has a violent temper tantrum over something as benign as a comic strip is forever suspicious to me. The day the Pope calls for Seth MacFarlane's head for portraying Jesus Christ as a scheming virgin trying to fuck Peter Griffin's wife and him having died of cocaine and not crucifixion is the day I will be more umm... open-minded.

France let in immigrants because they needed laborers after the war (where they gleefully collaborated with the Nazis and happily ratted out their Jewish neighbors, well knowing what awaited them). After the disaster and humiliation of the Occupation, they, like other colonial powers, needed cheap labor to get their shattered economies going again.

The new arrivals were treated abysmally. Segregated, ghettoized, reminded constantly they were less than. The older generation didn't mind - the old country was so miserable (made more so by the kleptocracy their colonizers imposed on them) that life in France, even as an outsider, was Ok. It's their children and their children's children who are the angry, alienated ones. Two or three generations in France, and they still aren't French, and never will be.

Why should they attempt to become French when the French will never accept them as such, no matter what? Where should they go? Back "home" where they've never lived?

Thinking that France has a central monoculture is profoundly ignorant. Regional pride in France is quite strong and many people out in the hinterlands consider themselves Occitan or Provencal before they are French.

R304 There has never been the level of violence or tension with an immigrant group in France than there is with the current batch of Muslims - to claim that it's always been such a fraught relationship between migrants and the French natives post WWII is ahistorical.

R305 That might be true, but France is much less Balkanized in that fashion than the States.

I never claimed that. I observed that the younger generation of Muslims in France are second and third generation. They were born and grew up in France and their perception is that France is not their home, that they will never be French and that the white French people still fundamentally see them as foreign.

It's not an excuse for violence but it's a dilemma of French society. The people are there. Short of genocide, they aren't going anywhere. You can either make them feel welcome or live in constant fear of an explosion.

Sadly France, like the US, has a very old voting cohort and they think free medical care and a shitty state-supported flat is enough and they should be grateful and shut up.

[quote] America has all sorts of people who move to the US and they all seem to integrate over time, including Muslims. You have to ask yourself then, if that's possible, why not in France?

European countries are a lot like Japan: closed to outsiders. The USA on the other hand has both ankles behind her ears, welcoming all like the Wrigleyville cumdump.

Dumbass Americans who know next to nothing about their own history commenting about French history does amuse.

No need to ever read any posts by the great wit R309. Alas for France, you are welcoming hate preachers and sending off the Jews.

R309 hasn't pointed out any errors, just sniffed. Which is perfectly French.

ITT: Americans and Frenchies being oblivious to their histories and thinking everyone else is to blame.

R296

Are you attempting to be bitchy?

[quote]It's Muslims at the forefront of attacking and murdering Jews.

Forefront, or back end, the truth is according you your videos conservatives and white supremacist in France wants the Jews out. But go ahead and use the Muslims as your shield for the hate and diversion from the full picture.

France and it's far right youth and decade of hate.

[quote] decade of hate.

Lots of hate in this thread. I blame the Non-French living on French land.

Basically France has a rise in White Supremacist but they have rebranded themselves as just clean cut nationalist and place the blame on other groups like Jews and Muslims.

I prefer a White supremacist to a Muslim Supremacist.

I don't live in Muhammudan territory.

You do realize they both hate faggots, right?

N’importe quoi !

Muhammudans kill homosexuals.

[quote]I prefer a White supremacist to a Muslim Supremacist.

And there you have it, the Troll on here from France has outed himself after 300 posts.

France is just as bad as Russia

The far right in France is in response to muslim bullshit all over the country.

Hate begets Hate.

They started it!

That's the most childish thing I have ever read on the DL r326.

R219 I promise you I do not want far-right.

“You are twisting the argument around. You said all those other all white countries are having problems with Muslim. I said it's not a surprise since they have problems with all sorts of people who are not just like them. They went to war over that to keep their countries "pure". The exact way Parisians act right now with their immigrants.”

—Anonymou R242

What the fuck are you saying r242 ? One country,Germany went on about purity and tried to conquer Europe. They failed, because other White countries defeated them. What the fuck has this to do with anything?

I came onto this thread cause I wanted to know more about what was happening in France. What I discovered was , as usual it descended into” America ,America, America!!” Unfortunately this is totally normal.

You lecture the rest of the World ,then wonder why everyone laughs behind your back. The Gay evangelists on here proclaiming about Islamic integration is absurd , when from a world perspective we have seen some of the deadliest mass murders on American soil carried out by Islamists. Considering they make up such an enlightened minority they have had a significant impact on on terrorist activities in your country.

Is there anything sadder than Gay people ( Whom Islamists literally kill and imprison) defending Islam. I find it incredible.

You can’t debate a subject without referring to yourselves as the yardstick of tolerance, when to an outsider like me, most of what I hear about most in America ,is gun killings and gang violence and no go zones in places like Chicago. But somehow, this can all be ignored when you lecture the rest of us how racist and intolerant we are compared to you.

You wonder why so many times Americans fall for bringing Democracy to the unenlightened. How many times Gay Americans rail against Christianity when they fucking don’t know how well they have it. Ask 99% of Gay Muslims would they rather live in a Muslim country or a Christian one? Go on. There is nothing more intolerant than a Liberal White Gay person in a rich White country telling you how bad they have it compared to everyone else.

Face it ,most of us in Western countries won the lottery when it came to being Gay in a tolerant country. This continual spitting on ourselves is behaviour not unlike a Trust fund baby.

You fundamentally know what the French are saying because we ourselves would never want to be in an Islamic culture. For those saying it is just like any other group, then why don’t all the other groups have thousands of terrorist attacks?

Sorry for the long post. Just frustrated another thread is derailed and frustrated by all the what aboutism we always get.

Oh great, now I have to look forward to being called Boris, because Americans are unable to read anything else in an atlas but Russia. Oh well.

[quote]You lecture the rest of the World ,then wonder why everyone laughs behind your back.

Oh yes, anyone else who has a different opinion is lecturing you. And god forbid they use America as one example where something works, then its the tired American imperialist talking point. Then you proceed to lecture.

[quote]You wonder why so many times Americans fall for bringing Democracy to the unenlightened.

1950 called, they want your view of America back. That hasn't been a real thing for decades. America is basically the world savior at this point when they get in over their head. Regular people in America are not talking about spreading Democracy. If fact if you had a clue and really knew what was going on it's quite the opposite. People in the US are wanting to isolate. We are tired of fighting other peoples wars when they wont stand up for themself. I case you haven't noticed, America pulled out of Afghanistan completely.

[quote]Is there anything sadder than Gay people ( Whom Islamists literally kill and imprison) defending Islam. I find it incredible.

What's stunning is your blatant example of Islamaphobia. You think by pulling the gay card I am supposed to throw away facts join your hate group?

What an incoherent babble by r329.

[quote]Oh great, now I have to look forward to being called Boris, because Americans are unable to read anything else in an atlas but Russia

You could've spared yourself that by stating your country in your long-winded post. This is an anonymous board. Are you ashamed of your country or what?

Islamaphobes cant comprehend this:

Anti-Semitism is rampant in France

R333 Transvestite?

R331 Throwing buzz words is one of the lowest forms of argument. How about you counter R329's with some coherent responses instead of some twitter-esque "Gurl, Bye" shtick?

“Is there anything sadder than Gay people ( Whom Islamists literally kill and imprison) defending Islam. I find it incredible. “What's stunning is your blatant example of Islamaphobia. You think by pulling the gay card I am supposed to throw away facts join your hate group?”R331

Don’t worry r331 Virtue signal received . You do know there is a difference between Islamists and Muslims? Of course you do. But just in case you don’t. I suggest you look up the definition. As it is political and it is about forwarding the Islamist agenda for political ends .

I have no problems with Muslims. I have blood relations who are, exes who are and friends who are. Your point?

Do you seriously believe that being Gay and Islamic is compatible? I suggest you read abit more before throwing accusations around. I will defend any Muslim who is Gay or a woman or a minority or a person I love. But Islamist? Seriously read a book.

BTW Islamaphobia is a word made up by Saudi Arabia. That tells u everything u need to know . It was done in the 90s as a political act.

The whole idea of "virtue signaling" is interesting to me. It sort of presupposes that the person doing the "signaling" doesn't *actually think the thing being expressed, that the signaler actually agrees with the horrible thing the accuser thinks, but is too interested in showing off Good Thoughts to say so.

It's sort of like "Oh come off it, you're a Klansman, too! We all are! All white people hate black people! Stop virtue signaling!"

It's weird.

[quote]BTW Islamaphobia is a word made up by Saudi Arabia.

And antisemitism was a word made up by Israel Jews. Words like that are made up by the people who are being discriminated against. Your point is moot.

[quote]You do know there is a difference between Islamists and Muslims?

No, there isn't. "Islamist" is a Western-invented term. Like "radical", "fundamentalist", and "moderate", a ludicrous attempt by Western defenders of a homo-murdering culture to separate Muslims from Islam.

[quote]And antisemitism was a word made up by Israel Jews

R339 No, it wasn't. It was coined in 1879 to designate the anti-Jewish campaigns in Europe and socio-culturally entrenched Jew hatred. Such as you've displayed.

[quote]Throwing buzz words is one of the lowest forms of argument.

Islamaphobia is not a buzz word. Is that your argument, it's not a word with real meaning? Do they teach gaslighting as rhetoric where you come from?

[quote]Islamaphobia is not a buzz word.

Yes it is. A nonsensical description. A phobia is an irrational fear. There is NOTHING irrational about objecting to and condemning the violent misogyny and homo-murders in Muslim societies nor on-going Muslim terror in Western societies.

A phobia is an irrational fear, and that's what you are demonstrating here. A few bad apples do not make for a whole barrel. There is 1.8 billion Muslims in the world and the way you talk it's as if they are all murdering terrorists. If that were true, then France would have 3 or 4 million marching in the streets beheading people, not a small group here or there.

R344 A "few bad apples"??? Seriously? 56 Muslims countries criminalize homosexuality and find it socially abhorrent. Muslims are at the forefront of preventing any progress for homosexuality in international forums. Muslims are wreaking social havoc, terrorizing populations across Europe, Asia and Africa.. And all Muslims and their deporable supporters like you can do is agnozing over "Islamophobia" and how Muslims are "stigmatized". On a gay board. In a country where a Muslim butchered 52 gay people.

Your blind hypocrisy and blatant bigotry is repulsive in the extreme.

The French are a violet racist ignorant people. Just look at this fight over being asked to wear masks. Geez, I thought Trumpeters were bad.

[quote]A "few bad apples"??? Seriously? 56 Muslims countries criminalize homosexuality and find it socially abhorrent.

Homophobia in Muslim countries is a micro argument, I am talking big picture here. Your obsession with that one point is exhausting and not winning anyone over to your view. Most people who are gay are not as simple mined as you want them to be. We can entertain two different concepts at the same time without resorting to the most base level of reactionism.

[quote]Homophobia in Muslim countries is a micro argument,

Belittling and dismissing the daily fear and horror gay people live with in Muslim countries? On a gay board? What in the living fuck are you doing here?

Fuck r347 , just fuck. You privileged self absorbed prick. There are millions and millions of Gay people, women and religious minorities who live in fear and you are like , yeah no not an argument. I seriously don’t know what u are doing on a Gay site.

France race riots break out at far-right candidate Zemmour's first presidential campaign rally.

The French are really good at rioting. They'll riot at the drop of a baguette. Proposed longer working hours, pension reform, transportation strikes, welfare cutbacks, the French just love a good riot.

[quote] Muslims and and do live peacefully in non-Muslim societies like the US. The majority of our attacks are not from Muslims

Mental gays with fetish can only bring up "they're not like this where I live in the US! US!" Hey. Muslims are fucking despised for their barbaric inability to live peacefully in non-Muslim-majority countries in ASIA too.

Insightful read

They'll riot at the drop of a baguette. 😂

R354 And if you use it elsewhere, I want attribution!!!!

R353 France is not afraid of "religion". And there is certainly nothing "secular" about France, a staunchly Catholic country where, until very recently, all commercial businesses closed on Sunday. As posted in R149, if you are not Catholic, you are not considered truly French. The various communities - Jews, Asians, Caribes, Polynesians, etc. - accepted a defacto second-class citizenship as part of the modus vivendi for living in France.

What France is afraid of is the demand by Muslims to reduce Catholism/French values and elevate Islam. Thus the on-going, open conflict with French values, such as wearing of hijab and the burkini, and the suddenly increased emphasis on forbidding "religious symbols". None of which had ever been an issue until Muslims began to make them one.

Yes, the French long to continue to sexually objectify teenage girls.

Agincourt was a magnificent battle. I saw a reenactment years ago on Governor's Island, during a production of Henry IV.

WTF is wrong with Cologne? This will be all of Europe soon if the muzzies get their way.

France was too kind, too accommodating to these ex-colonials and asylum seekers. They should have shut down the muslim bullshit as the Swiss have done consistently.

Cologne, time for your prayers, boys.

^ The Call to Prayer is a dreadful droning mournful sound.

It's creepy. And it's arrogant.

Church bells only last five minutes.

The call to prayer is 5 times a day every day. Cologne is insane to give into this. Church bells are pretty at least and they have cultural significance.

5 times a day is excessive.

Don't those Muhammudans have wristwatches?

I worked in public health in Africa, and in the Muslim areas, we wasted about 1/3 of the day preparing for prayers, praying then recovering from praying.

I think this is a reason that economic development is hindered when superstitions interfere with production of capital.

R359 LMFAO, they could have restricted it to musical instruments only.

r359 If church bells are acceptable, nothing wrong with a Muslim call to prayer. Also, most Muslims in Cologne are not recent immigrants but second and third generation Turks who were brought fill the labor gap in West Germany starting in the 60s and 70s.

[quote]nothing wrong with a Muslim call to prayer.

5 times a day if you are not part of that religion is a bit annoying. Even church bells can be annoying. I say ban all of it, church bells too except maybe special occasions.

[quote] Muslims in Cologne

Molest

Rape

[quote] I say ban all of it, church bells too except maybe special occasions.

Good luck with that.

[quote] I say ban all of it, church bells too except maybe special occasions.

How lovely for an American to advise Europeans on how to run their environments. Ban hundreds/thousands of years of tradition just to get to those muzzies.

How uppity and elitist for Europeans to think no one else is entitled to an opinion when they have NO PROBLEM talking about "You Americans".

Muslims have no intention or desire to assimilate in their host countries. They are there purely for the benefits - real or imagined. There's a reason they all want to go to Germany/France/UK and not, for example, the Czech Republic.

That argument has been said about every immigrant group since the beginning of time. You need new material. I have heard that about Jews, Mexicans, Asians, Italians, Black, etc, etc.

It's wonderful watching Europe cut it's own throat.

Those calls to prayer five times a day are invasive and are nothing at all like church bells.

Germany France Belgium Britain Sweden . . . They can't dilute their hereditary cultures fast enough.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. Look up the stats.

Europe is being unmade.

The only holdouts are Denmark and the Visegrad groups.

Isn't it interesting that Poland and Lithuania fought off Belarus' attempt to shove thousands of Middle Eastern migrants into their countries?

While England, a far bigger and more powerful nation. Who once on the brink of economic starvation, rationing, blackouts, and daily bombings, fought off the German U-boats and the Blitz . . .

Couldn't stop 30,000 economic country-shopping migrants from landing on the shores of Kent?

Odd, when Poland sent armed troops to the border, and put up barbed wire fences, Belarus caved in a few weeks and flew the migrants back to Syria and other points eastward.

You know why? Because Belarus knew the Poles were willing to shoot, and Belarus would get the blame.

If Britain mined the channel and France still let the boats set off, how long do you think it would before the use of Britain as a dumping ground by France would suddenly stop?

People unwilling to fight for the primacy of their cultures deserve to lose them.

Multiculturalism is a confidence trick.

^*its (not it's) throat

Cologne was where 1,000 women were sexually assaulted and harassed by mobs of Middle Eastern men on NYE 2016.

The press tried to cover up the story for a week until it got so exposed on social media, the press and the government were forced to address it.

I'm sure all those women will be just delighted to here the wailing voices of those imams all over the city five times a day.

Fucking fatuous stupid spineless gutless Europe.

R372 What the fuck are you doing posting here?? This is a gay board. Your myriad posts on this thread well and truly illustrate that you have no sympathy/caring for gays.

^* to hear (not here)

I dont think Italy or Spain are being over run by Muslims. Italy has over 1.5 million and they dont seem the have the same kind of problems as France.

[quote][R372] What the fuck are you doing posting here?? This is a gay board. Your myriad posts on this thread well and truly illustrate that you have no sympathy/caring for gays.

I am gay you dipshit, I understand what being a minority is. That's why I sympathize with them. I want to know why YOU are here? You are obviously a racist euro trash simpleton who thinks using the gay angle justifies your islamaphobia.

[quote]Fucking fatuous stupid spineless gutless Europe.

R374 Irresponsible, empty-headed, feckless, the list is endless. And when governments could no longer ignore their complicity in the social nightmare they'd created, when the public started asking too many questions, "hate crime" laws were passed to silence questions and dissent. Angela Merkel had a word in Facebook's ear attempting to further stem public dissent.

R378 Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board. Your myriad posts on this thread well and truly illustrate that you have no sympathy/caring for gays.

R380 I am gay you dipshit, I understand what being a minority is. That's why I sympathize with them. I want to know why YOU are here? You are obviously a racist euro trash simpleton who thinks using the gay angle justifies your islamaphobia.

[quote]I am gay

R378 R381 No, you most certainly are not. You're an apologist for a homo-murdering culture. No gay who "understands what being a minority is" especially in a Muslim country would post: "Homophobia in Muslim countries is a micro argument," as you did at R347. You're a deplorable apologist for homo-hatred and murder.

Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board!

LOL I am actually a Gold Star Gay r382. I don't care what you think. Unlike you, I am capable of holding opposing idea in my head at the same time without reducing them down to a simplistic argument. You sound like a white older conservative that doesn't know the meaning of being in a minority class. Clueless that most gays are liberal politically and would be just like me to identify with minorities. I am guessing you are either a Boris Troll or some bitter French far right conservative trying to gin up your support on a gay board. Because the way you talk about gays is very one note and simplistic. No one is buying you like of shit here.

Go back and post on your own countries far right hate sites, I am sure you will feel a lot more at home there. That is if they let gays do that there.

R273 Those are the same people that would shit their pants if a Muslim man stood behind them in a line, it's only white knight savior from a far. All these sjws would shit their pants in fact if a Muslim screamed at them in arabic.

R383 You are an apologist for a homo-murdering culture. As your posts have amply shown. Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board!

R383 Except gay men don't identify with oppressors that want to murder them you homophobic piece of shit.

[quote] You are an apologist for a homo-murdering culture. As your posts have amply shown. Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board!

I already told you I am gay, I have been posting here for years, not leaving Toots.

We don't identify with religious loons, trans loons, feminist loons etc. We identify with guess who? Gay men. Dumbass.

[quote]Except gay men don't identify with oppressors that want to murder them you homophobic piece of shit.

Well, maybe because my experience with Muslims is different than yours. Maybe I can see what you cannot with your blinders on. The ones I have worked with including the gay ones are nothing like you describe. Do you even know any Muslims personally? I bet you don't.

Sure, just tell that to the gay men that have been beheaded or thrown off roofs. I'm sure you can't dipshit. R389

[quote]Go back and post on your own countries far right hate sites

R383 truly believes that championing an oppressive, misogynist, authoritarian, homo-murdering culture is just so progressive and liberal. You're a lunatic, in addition to a lying apologist for homo-murderers.

Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board!

“Well, maybe because my experience with Muslims is different than yours. Maybe I can see what you cannot with your blinders on. The ones I have worked with including the gay ones are nothing like you describe. Do you even know any Muslims personally? I bet you don't.“ r389

Clap clap r389. You are more virtuous than all of us. Doesn’t matter about our experiences at all does it? Only yours counts, cause you are a good standard Gay who knows what other Gay people think. BECAUSE WE ARE ALL FUCKING THE Same aren’t we. Way to stereotype. If we don’t think like you we must be White Right Wingers or Boris. Again way to stereotype.

You are on a thread about France saying if there is a Frenchman here they can “ Go back and post on your own countries far right hate sites, I am sure you will feel a lot more at home there. That is if they let gays do that there.” Well given this thread is about France, maybe you can tell us how it is like for French people at the moment in Paris, because I would rather know what fucking French person thought on a thread about France, than virtue signalling saint from Weho.

Seriously I love many Christians, but I don’t fucking cheer the fucking Catholic Church on . That is because I can differentiate between the Religion and the people. Clearly you can’t , because you are unable to say anything negative about the most intolerant Religion to Gays in the World. Yes I know you think you know better and are dying to give us another monologue on your lofty tolerance of the Religion ,who literally has a creed of death to Gays, but please do us favour and don’t pretend you speak for most Gays. You speak for the people you know and that is it.

I am still here waiting to hear about the Muslims you know personally.

Oh right, you don't actually know any, you just are some expert about an entire culture without ever getting to know them. And yet you will scream about how Americans are the ones who are always telling people what to do without knowing what they are talking about. Well, look in the mirror. Pot meet Kettle.

[quote]Yes I know you think you know better and are dying to give us another monologue

R392, isn't that what YOU just did? 4 paragraphs long!

Only a woke fool apologizes for gay-hating muslims and calls to prayer in Euro cities. The mindless drone of wokeness.

[quote]If Britain mined the channel and France still let the boats set off, how long do you think it would before the use of Britain as a dumping ground by France would suddenly stop?

Mine the channel? If idiots like these ever get to power .... As for France letting the migrants boats set off, you should ask yourselves why when all these migrants don't feel France is a good enough place for them to stay that they are willing to risk their own lives to leave, same as they did Afghanistan or Iraq. And it's not France's job to forcibly prevent people from leaving its shores.

Are Hindus ok? How about Janes? How about Lebanese Christians? Were the French Huguenots ok? How about the Jewish refugees from Hitler?

Are the Pakistani muslims ok since the staff of the NHS has a huge Pakistani Muslim staff and if you kicked them out, the entire British Health System would collapse? How about the Algerians of French origin who came to southern France after the Empire collapsed and started voting super-right-wing? They're refugees but they're not exactly "French" are they?

How about Jews? They pray weird.

I'm trying to find out what the line here is.

The line is at the feet of gay -hating muslims. Duh

Actually r397 Anyone from any Religion is ok if they don’t want to kill us.

See my problem is experience. You ask how many Muslims I know, is my sister, who I love dearly close enough? My nieces and nephews? Maybe my ex or my friends ? I would like to know your point?

Mine comes from having witnessed the growing crisis in Europe with Islam. My experience is having seen a Gay man who had bashed in a Refugee camp and had to seek shelter for fear of his life. Of an ex who didn’t have enough money to pay his blackmailers and had to flee Iran or he would have been executed. Is that enough experience, or would you like me to go on?

I have more .

Gee all the times I've been gay-bashed, it's been by white men.

^^ you lot the debate, hun.

Maybe I did but you lot the spelling bee.

I love the various people above in this thread who claim that only the Quran spells out death for gay people, that Muslims are the only religion stipulating this. . How ignorant. How about this passage?"

"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Or, in another translation:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Wow - that's from the BIBLE, not the Quran. The Bible, the ultimate source of religious tradition and the word of God according to EVERY JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN DENOMINATION. It was passages like this that caused persecution of gays in Christian countries up to the mid to late 1950s. One of the geniuses who helped the British and Americans to win the war against the Nazis was Alan Turing, who was "repaid" for his service to his country and to western democracies, by being chemically castrated and humiliated to the point that he took his own life in 1954. Is this REALLY the hill of so-called Christian tolerance that you are prepared to die on? Or let's go to the countries of Eastern Europe, where gay people are frequently murdered. Some estimate that hundreds of gay people are killed in Russia alone every year.

No one here is pretending that the Muslim world's attitude towards gay people is in any way enlightened. The laws and actions have often been utterly deplorable, and many gay people in Muslim countries have been needlessly killed or exiled. What we are saying is that not every Muslim supports those laws and actions. Wouldn't it be better to build on THAT than to create some sort of holy war with a religion whose adherents number 1/4 of the population of the globe? Do you change peoples' minds by engaging them in gentle and persuasive ways, or by attacking and isolating them? Which method is likely to provoke a defensive posture?

[quote]You ask how many Muslims I know, is my sister, who I love dearly close enough? My nieces and nephews? Maybe my ex or my friends ? I would like to know your point?

I bet if you actually had some of those you listed as Muslim you would not be making the stupid arguments you are here today. Not if you talked to them about it that is. That is my point.

[quote]The French do not want to be like the US.

The US has less than 5% Muslims minority. Some cities in France have more than 20%. Both Denmark and now also Sweden have taken measures to reduce the number of Muslim migrants in their countries because they cause too much trouble.

R403, Muslims rejected any move towards enlightenment for centuries. When they live in western countries, lots never integrate. Very often 2nd and 3rd generations are way more radical in their beliefs than their parents.

[quote]Both Denmark and now also Sweden have taken measures to reduce the number of Muslim migrants in their countries

So have Germany and Britain. Pay 'em a huge financial incentive to go back from whence they came, put 'em on a plane and buh bye.

[quote]"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."

R403 And speaking of stupid, there is nothing in the Jewish Bible that states the above.

[quote]Wouldn't it be better to build on THAT than to create some sort of holy war with a religion whose adherents number 1/4 of the population of the globe?

And speaking of more stupid, Muslims created a "holy war" when they rode north out of Arabia in the 7th century to spread The Word. And that "holy war" is still on-going. See Europe. See Africa. See Asia.

[quote]What we are saying is that not every Muslim supports those laws and actions.

And speaking of yet more stupid, "support" is irrelevant to the reality of legal and social abhorrence of homosexuality in Muslim societies. To say nothing of the woeful ignorance that Islam is about submission, not choice, and that you will never "engage" or "change the minds" of societies that believe their lifestyle and thoughts are perfect. Not only because their Prophet said so, but because their only exposure is to other Muslims and Islam. There is nothing else. It may help to keep in mind that tens of thousands of 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims living in the West, who had well and truly been exposed to Western thinking and liberal ideas/values, who were university-education, pursued jihad with DAESH.

But you keep right on projecting your Western ignorance on a homo-murdering culture. On a gay board.

Interesting stats here:

[quote]According to a Pew Forum estimate, in 2017 [bold]there were 3.45 million Muslims, constituting about 1.1% of the total U.S. population,[/bold]compared with 70.6% who follow Christianity, 22.8% unaffiliated, 1.9% Judaism, 0.7% Buddhism, and 0.7% Hinduism.[1][106] A Pew Forum report on American religion found that Muslims accounted for 0.9% of American adults in 2014, up from 0.4% in 2007, due largely to immigration.

[quote]According to a 2017 study done by the Institute for Social Policy, “American Muslims are the only faith community surveyed with no majority race, with 26 percent white, 18 percent Asian, 18 percent Arab, 9 percent black, 7 percent mixed race, and 5 percent Hispanic”.

Muslims are only 1% of the U.S. population, yet they get so much hate in all American media.

[quote]The US has less than 5% Muslims minority. Some cities in France have more than 20%.

Stop playing games with the numbers. "some cities" is not the same as an entire country percentage. "Some cities" in the US have that much too. It's only 5% in the entire country of France.

r408, as usual with you, your argument is not with me, it is with other Jews: Granted that the verbiage in Hebrew is obscure (as in the translation below) , there is no doubt that the traditional Jewish interpretation of this passage is that homosexual intercourse between two men is toevah - and, at least for the penetrator in such intercourse, the punishment should be death.

וְאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם מוֹת יוּמָתוּ דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם A man who lies a man the lyings of a woman, they have committed an abomination. Both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Also, there is no such thing as "the Jewish Bible." There is what Christians call "the Old Testament" and then there's the Torah and lots of others. It's very contested. Judaism has no central authority, like the Papacy. It's more like Protestantism or Islam where local traditions and holy men exert influence.

Some Jewish traditions don't care much about homosexuality. Some see it as a basis for herem.

[quote]"Some cities" in the US have that much too

Which city in the U.S. is 20% Muslim? Or even 5%?

HAMTRAMCK — Hamtramck, Michigan, made history last year by becoming what appears to be the first city in the country to elect a majority-Muslim city council (notably, the city also became the first to have a majority-Muslim population in 2013), spurring an international media feeding frenzy to descend upon the city.

Hamtramck, Michigan:

Area: 2.10 sq mi

Population: 28,433

Demographics: 55.9% White, 10.0% African American, 0.1% Native American, 26.9% Asian, 1.0% from other races, and 6.0% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.1% of the population.

Hey R232 what have you personally done for migrants that makes you so high and mighty?

Which city in France. is 20% Muslim? Not region, province, neighborhood or area. You said city, and you were being literal, not hyperbolic I assume, so which city is it?

[quote]Granted that the verbiage in Hebrew is obscure

R411 Obscure? Not to those who speak, read and understand Hebrew. The Jewish Bible is very clear and concise.

And the only "abomination" is that horrific translation you posted, by someone who knows Hebrew formally, but is ignorant of the nuances of every day speech. It might help to remember that the vast majority of people who call themselves Rabbis outside of Israel couldn't speak Hebrew to save their lives, and have no knowledge of common word meaning/usage. What the translation tripped over is what everyone trips over again because they have no knowledge of עברית יום יום (everyday Hebrew) is this: זכר Which has a variety of meanings: Male, male gender and male youth/child.

Next time, stick to Xtian topics. You'll look less like a complete idiot.

How then would YOU translate this passage into English?

[quote] Muslims are only 1% of the U.S. population, yet they get so much hate in all American media.

What "all American media" are you watching that you see such hate?

Conservative media? The most popular news outlets in the nation?

It's amazing how people don't seem to think Fox is "the media".

You said "all American media"; so what about CNN and MSNBC -- have they been hating on Muslims?

It's so weird the way people hold up two barely-watched cable news networks as emblems of The American Media. On a good night they have 750k viewers combined.

And they both have a lot to answer for in terms of the runup to the Iraq War.

Then you need to specify Fox rather than "all American media."

[quote]It's so weird the way people hold up two barely-watched cable news networks as emblems of The American Media

It's cable news, and once upon a time it was the only source for straight news. Now of course people can go to google or FB but unlike cable, they are not held to federal standards with content. 6 out of 10 Americans still get their news from TV. The other sources is divided up from online, radio and print. So MSNBC, CNN and FOX is the primary source where MOST Americans still get live breaking news.

Nope. The vast, vast, vast majority of Americans get their news from local stations - not CNN or MSNBC.

And, without fail, the news stories most shared on Facebook are from right-wing sources - Ben Shapiro, Fox and Breitbart.

The "liberal media" has always been something of a myth and now it's a joke.

When you talk about "the media" in the US, it's conservative media. Period.

[quote]ope. The vast, vast, vast majority of Americans get their news from local stations

Sorry Grandpa, the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans have cut their cable, local news is mostly received online.

Actually I stand corrected, it's 8 in 10 Americans now get their news digitally online or from a smart phone.

Even if they do get it online (tho the article does say "at least sometimes from digital devices"), the digital news ecosystem (basically Facebook) is heavily tilted towards right-wing sources.

Check out Facebooks own analytics. The top 5-10 stories are sourced from right-wing loon sources.

I'm not sure what your point is.

[quote] How then would YOU translate this passage into English?

R419 I wouldn’t translate it into English because the source text is perfectly clear and understandable to me and every other speaker of עברית יום יום, including those who formulate laws in Israel. Which why homosexuality wasn't criminalized in that nation..

The crux of the prohibition rests on one word זכר, in this instance, male youth/child. The prohibition is against pedophilia, enthusiastically practiced by pagan tribes from the Babylonians to the Greeks. Ignorant thieving Xtians who stole laws and texts meant solely for Jews to annihilate their very existence have mistranslated that particular word (and the rest of the laws/text of Jews) for almost two millennia. And those who haven’t a fucking clue in hell continue to promote that ignorance for their own agenda.

Stick to Xtian topics. You’ll look less like a complete idiot.

Erratum R430: context, not instance

You can’t stop talking about yourselves can you? Tell me is that because you have never left your shores?

The thread is about France, but three quarters of this thread has ended up about the US. Seriously. WTF. If everything and everyone relates to your view of it how the fuck do you understand anything outside of yourself? The answer is you don’t , do you.

Americans knowledge of Europe is based on Nazis or Russians and everyone and everything else is irrelevant. You clearly don’t understand the situation in France, because you keep arguing as if it was LA.

Fuck, tiresome.

Girl, unclench. It's a 400-odd long thread. Subjects wander. Don't worry. France is still pretty!

Oh for Fucks sake, your elitist tone about Americans is exhausting. America is the example I chose because it is the best example to contrast what France is about. I am sorry the example I chose conflicts with the Eurocentric bubble you live in. America is part of the world just like China or Russia. It's a legitimate example since it's such a large player on the world stage.

About 40% of Americans own passports. Which means 60% don't. They're the ones posting on this thread.

[quote]Americans knowledge of Europe is based on Nazis or Russians and everyone and everything else is irrelevant.

To be fair, that is what France is most known for around the globe. Wars are a more historical events than the invention of the Baguette.

Less than 1% of French citizens have ever been to a Muslim country. Yet they seem to know everything about Muslim culture, all 1.8 billion of them.

R437 You are a deplorable apologist for a homo-murdering culture. Why are you continuing to post here? This ia a gay board!

[quote]About 40% of Americans own passports

Yes because America is on a completely different content! Its the size of Europe, with some US state bigger than European countries. It's surrounded by great oceans on each side of the continent. Unlike living in France, Italy or Spain, it makes it very expensive to travel across the ocean.

FYI: Only 6% of the French population has ever traveled abroad outside of Europe.

Oh, the French are so worldly, they travel all over the globe - NOT

But they are going to tell us how much they know about every culture anyways.

[quote]You are a deplorable apologist for a homo-murdering culture. Why are you continuing to post here? This ia a gay board!

You are a deplorable Euro Trash Right Wing Troll who continues to spew Islamophobic propaganda. I'ts a liberal Gay Board! Why are you here! Be Gone Troll!

R441 Defending a homo-murdering culture on a gay board is liberal???

Why are you continuing to post here? This is a gay board!

Muslims are gay too you stupid piece of trash. Why do you keep posting here? Your Islamophobia is not welcome.

R443 You do understand the Jews are fleeing France due to the incredibly high rate of attacks on Jews. FACT. Not your woke phrase "Islamophobia".

FACT. Muslims in France are assaulting Jews in growing numbers. FACT.

Take your woke nonsense and shove it up your ass.

R443 Gay Muslims live daily lives of fright and horrors. Which you are adamantly defending. Why are you continuing to post here?? This is a gay board!!

r430 Homosexuality WAS criminalized in Israel until the 1960s. In general, civil law in Israel is adopted from common law, not from halakha. Also, you always assume that Jews who do not agree with your interpretation of Hebrew passages from Torah must not speak be fluent in it or be able to speak it. Where is your evidence for that? I'm linking a long article written by Orthodox Jews regarding Halakha and Homosexuality below. Again, you keep arguing with me. Your argument is not with ME. It is with some of your fellow Jews, who, reading the same Hebrew as you, draw different conclusions. If Torah is so crystal clear and concise that the meaning could ever be confused, why is there disagreement about it? Why was there a need for the Talmud, and then afterwards, commentaries on the Talmud by rabbis like Rashi?

[quote]This is a gay board!!

Yes, we know. Saying that 50 times is not going to make someone agree with your Islamaphobia.

It is very sad to see Muslims driving Jews out of France. Who's next?

Are Jews being driven out of France? Is that why they're being "driven"? Do they like the idea of living in an armed right-wing state?

It has been demonstrated with links etc that it is the god damn MUSLIMS driving Jews out of France you fuckwit R449. Enough of your bs.

Oh you mean there are LINKS!!! Now you've convinced me.

R446

[quote] Homosexuality WAS criminalized in Israel until the 1960s

Uh, no. Israel inherited British sodomy law. It was never enforced and in 1988 repealed by the Knesset.

[quote]You always assume that Jews who do not agree with your interpretation of Hebrew passages from Torah must not speak be fluent in it or be able to speak it.

And you misuse the word “interpretation”. I do not need to “interpret” a language that is perfectly clear/understandable to me any more than you would have to "interpret" “See Jane run”.

[quote] I'm linking a long article written by Orthodox Jews regarding Halakha and Homosexuality below.

An “Orthodox Jew” who has zip knowledge of language nuance, who most likely can’t even read Hebrew without nikud (dots/dashes under the letters), the principle reason for centuries of misinterpretation. And, most telling, who provides “commentary” in English. I’d be wary of anyone who claims knowledge while using the word “tradition” – unless one wants to characterize chronic misinterpretations as such - and the category “Orthodox Jew”, an “identity” foisted on Jews by American Xtians.

[quote] Your argument is not with ME.

It most certainly is with YOU. Your ignorant insistence on regurgitating 3rd hand ignorant nonsense as “knowledge” and “accuracy”.

[quote] If Torah is so crystal clear and concise that the meaning could ever be confused, why is there disagreement about it?

See R418 and below.

[quote] Why was there a need for the Talmud, and then afterwards, commentaries on the Talmud by rabbis like Rashi?

Dispersion, diaspora, and debasement from country, culture and language. The Talmud is not so much commentary on law as a compilation of philosophy history, ethics, and custom to unite/regulate a nation cast to the wind. Halacha and the Talmud were started when the nation of Israel was in control of its country, language and culture, its destiny, but continued in dispersion by people who no longer had a connection to the aforementioned.

Stick to Xtian topics. You’ll look less like a complete idiot.

[quote]In general, civil law in Israel is adopted from common law, not from halakha.

R446 Yet another example of my argument being with YOU and the utter ignorant horseshit that you post. What "common law" do you mean"? What "civil law" do you mean?

Well you've stated your boundaries, but not very convincingly and not very coherently. Your main technique of arguing in ad hominem attacks on me, which is the sign of someone insecure in his facts. The most telling part of your diatribe is here: "And, most telling, who provides “commentary” in English. I’d be wary of anyone who claims knowledge while using the word “tradition” – unless one wants to characterize chronic misinterpretations as such". So, you are admitting that at least some Jews have chronically interpreted Hebrew differently than you. That's all the admission you needed to make to render the rest of your arguments invalid. Thank you for doing my work for me. Whether you live in Israel or somewhere else in the world, you know full well that a goodly portion of Jews around the world believe male homosexuality (not just pedophilia) to be Toevah and have believed that for at least 20 centuries.

In regard to Israel law, I'm quoting from Wikipedia, which lists the following source for my statement:

Ruth Levush (15 January 2001). "Features – A Guide to the Israeli Legal System". LLRX. Retrieved 7 May 2017.

[quote]Your main technique of arguing in ad hominem attacks on me,

You keep posting 2nd and 3rd hand ignorant horseshit. I detail why it is ignorant horseshit. That's not ad hominem.

[quote] Whether you live in Israel or somewhere else in the world, you know full well that a goodly portion of Jews around the world believe male homosexuality

Which has nothing to do with the original post about whether or not homosexuality is a crime in Jewish law. And everything to with ignorant assumptions and your need to salvage your ego, to somehow be correct and accurate. Neither of which you are.

[quote]you are admitting that at least some Jews have chronically interpreted Hebrew differently than you.

MISinterpret due to their ignorance of Hebrew.

[quuote]In general, civil law in Israel is adopted from common law, not from halakha.

[quote]In regard to Israel law, I'm quoting from Wikipedia, which lists the following source for my statement:

Your statement is so overgeneralized as to be meaningless. Again, you use second-hand sources to reiterate what you believe is your correctness, but what in reality simply reiterates your ignorance. Especially in this case where you read the first time, thought great! and posted it. Without reading the rest of it. Including that the laws government the nation of Israel are a complex compilation of Ottoman, British and Halakha.

Stick to Xtian topics. You'll look less like a complete idiot.

Erratum R455 . . . read the first LINE

r455 I'm pretty sure you're Matt Anscher, a well-known datalounge troll. I have posted links and sources, something you have never done. . You simply attack me, while arguing that your knowledge of Hebrew makes all your arguments unassailable. Even when Jewish scholars use Hebrew text in their opinions, you claim they don't know how to read Hebrew and then blame me somehow for their opinions. I have never attacked you personally. .You don't even accurately represent what I have said. You claimed that I brought up the following: "Which has nothing to do with the original post about whether or not homosexuality is a crime in Jewish law.' Except that I never made that claim. I simply quoted from several different translations of a sentence from Leviticus to talk about the fact that that sentence had resulted in much persecution of gay people through the ages. . It was YOU who brought up whether or not it was a crime in Israel.

I think we're done now. You can troll someone else for a while. I leave it to other readers of this thread to decide who in this discussion has made himself look petty and obsessive.

R457

[quote] I'm pretty sure you're Matt Anscher,

Now THAT'S ad hominem. Shoot the messenger when you have no response to the message. And bigotry. Which much of your responses reak of.

[quote]Even when Jewish scholars use Hebrew text in their opinions, you claim they don't know how to read Hebrew and then blame me somehow for their opinions.

The difference is I have direct knowledge of what I assert. You are reduced to 2nd and 3rd hand guesswork. And then spew outrage because someone has the temerity to quite rightly insist that you haven't a fucking clue in hell about that which you assert/post.

[quote]I simply quoted from several different translations of a sentence from Leviticus to talk about the fact that that sentence had resulted in much persecution of gay people through the ages.

And I corrected your ignorant assertion that those abominable translations most certainly did not reflected Jewish law or reality.

[quote] You can troll someone else for a while.

More ad hominem. Pot? Kettle? Hello?

Stick with Xtian topics. You'll look less like a complete idiot.

Erratum R458 reek, not reak of

great! I hope he wins!! vive la France!!

He won't. His poll numbers are for shit. It's Le Pen v Macron.

Muslim-Majority City in the US, on problem. Notice the old ladies don't have a problem with immigrants? That's the problem with France, no integration, its us and them.

R396 Actually, it IS. They are allowing people traffickers to commit crimes by taking huge amounts of money from people to set off on a dangerous journey on which many have died. France is supposed to patrol its own shores for criminals, not allow its shores to become a haven for same. The traffickers are taking in billions. It is France's job to prevent that on it's own soil.

And, not for nothing, France also asked for 54 million to do just that. It took the first tranche of money and then did absolutely nothing. Then it threatened to do nothing if it didn't get note.

France's role in this is disgusting.

If Poland and Lithuania faced down Belarus, behind whom stood Putin, so can Britain.

Belarus backed down because it knew the Poles would shoot, people would die, and the world would blame Belarus.

A few blown up rubber dinghies accompanied by videos of French border police reading Paris Match whilst pretending not to see the boats setting off, and you can bet your derriere that the situation would change and fast.

France is enabling people trafficking, allowing the scum of the earth to set up a hugely profitable industry on its front step.

^*raking in millions (not billions)

^^*if it didn't get more (not note)