The Ghislaine Maxwell Trial. Part 1

I read where the defense is going to hammer away at the girls' 'faulty memories'. Um, how do you forget getting molested?

False memories is part of the strategy it appears.

Also, the women have violated a confidentiality agreement after being paid from a fund.

This will get dirty.

I'm disappointed in Ghislaine's ensemble today. She requires a designer for these appearances.

I love Sally Maxwell's courtroom drag!

Give us Chanel at the very least, Ghislaine.

4 accusations among many many more who have not pursued legal action. She’s a very very disturbed woman, but in my mind guilty as they come and depraved beyond words. So so sick.

Watch the Netflix documentary sometime- the evidence is as apparent as the sun rising in the morning.

Randy Andy is also guilty- big time- all on video. Truly disgusting stuff.

What are the actual charges.

What is the name of the Netflix series?

Filthy Rich, r7.

There are six counts :

[Quote]She faces six counts: conspiracy to entice minors, and enticement of a minor, to travel to engage in illegal sex acts; conspiracy to transport minors, and transportation of a minor, with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, and two of perjury.

I want her home in NH.

I believe she has divorced her husband to protect his assets, but they're still together.

Maxwell was "Hauled into court"? What kind of crap reporting is that?

Why is this thread so quiet? I'd assume hundreds of replies.

Is there another thread lurking about?

R12 This trial isn't getting a lot of mainstream coverage, curiously enough.

No this is the only trial thread. The written press is all there in the court room. From around the world in fact, but TV news is quiet.

No cameras in the courtroom.

End of day today Epstein's plilot took the stand so tomorrow should be good.

[quote] No this is the only trial thread.

^^ that thread is about the trial starting tomorrow. It's here and we have Part 1. Many will follow.

Whatever, control freak

I'm sure the conspiracy idiots will be claiming the lack of much coverage on television news is because of some dastardly plot, when in reality it's because this judge banned cameras from her courtroom, probably after witnessing the Rittenhouse trial. Otherwise the press would be livestreaming it just as they did that one.

Rittenhouse was a state trial.

seems like the federal judges don’t allow cameras in the courtroom. Elizabeth Holmes’ trial is also going on now in federal court — no cameras.

In the old days Jean would send Nancy (who was camped out in front of the court house) blow by blow messages on her Blueberry and Nancy would read them aloud on Court TV. Good times.

R21 it's up to the judges whether they allow cameras and press in at the state level (usually) but you're right, I think cameras are banned in federal courts in general.

She’s still playing the socialite who is above it all and can’t possibly be guilty of luring, trafficking and raping hundreds of young girls for years.

She's not dressing like a socialite. She looks frumpy. If I were she I'd wear fabulous designer clothes every day because all things considered she'll never have the chance again.

Epstein's pilot could testify to all the big names who flew with him, but watch how they'll all be protected.

If she’s so rich why didn’t she ever get her udders propped up?

I think she is “dressing down” to attempt to distract from the reports that she is a big socialite with powerful contacts. Her “black book” will almost certainly be the subject of testimony.

The court drawings look like fashion sketches, dramatic!

One can already tell the big names will not be discussed For instance Virginia, the girl who had sex with Prince Andrew 3 times, is not part of this trial. She isn't being called as a witness either And she has been the most vocal of all the girls.

I agree with R28.

They're trying to make her look as de-sexualized as possible. Also, the gesture of hugging her in the court as if she's been in the Amazon for a decade when you know that her lawyers have seen her every day leading up to this trial.

Anyone know why Virginia isn’t a part of this?

She'll go to prison for three years, get out early for good behavior and release a book called "My Story" that will be controversial and banned on many sites.

I wish she would testify to the reason why she did that weird act at the burger joint in LA, with the dog and the spy novel. What the hell?

She was leaning into the myth that she was a spy or a mole and had connections to the Intelligence community. It was a prank but a stupid one as it just focused more attention on her.

Of course the more conspiratorial-minded would say she was sending a warning to Certain People, but it seemed more like her trolling everyone.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

<- My god what is Jizz wearing in that photo? It looks like a denim lamp shade. She should do time just for that outfit.

This is how you dress for court.

^^ please do this, Ghislaine. Have a bit of fun with your trial.

[R34], it was photoshopped. She was never there.

So what emerged from the pilot's testimony?

Pilot's testimony was he saw lots of famous people, he didn't see any sex. It was considered helpful to Maxwell.

Did he name the famous people?

No surprises. Clinton, Prince Andrew, Spacey... the usual suspects.

There was one really funny story about Helen Lawson chasing the plane as it taxied for take off and Epstein saing "Too old... take off! TAKE OFF!"

Is Helen a witness in this trial?

The charges in this trial: (GM faces another trial for 2 counts of perjury in a deposition)

Enticement of a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (20 years)

Conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (20 years)

Transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (10 years minimum, life maximum)

Sex Trafficking Conspiracy

Sex Trafficking of a Minor

A juror was excused from the Ghislaine Maxwell trial after his wife surprised him with a vacation

Can you imagine how Dominick Dunne would have LOVED attending this trial everyday to cover it for Vanity Fair? This would have been ideal for him - I would have enjoyed his coverage.

R47 not suspicious at all!

Excusing that juror sounds like BS to me. I can see if it was a "trip of a lifetime" planned long ago, but not some surprise Christmas vacation.

Vacation? WTF? Why would the judge allow this? Jurors are going to start testing positive for Covid soon. They need to hang on to every juror

I was really interested that they used to scout for girls at Interlochen Music Camp - I went there one summer! No one tried to pick me up, though, darn it.

If the thread is quiet, it's probably because we already know everything, it just hasn't been told in court. A pilot testified Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, and Trump flew on Epstein's private plane; we knew that one year ago but it wasn't on record.

I did not know about John Glenn or George Mitchell. And Kevin Spacey? WTF?

Kevin Spacey? Were there young gay boys on the island, too?

I think Spacey was on the AIDS tour of Africa. I didn't know about George Mitchell or John Glenn.

I don't believe we know everything. Far from it.

R41 Nothing that wasn't vaguely known by the public - that Andrew, Clinton, Trump et al KNEW Epstein - this much can be gleaned from photos. Not anything about their dealings with underage girls. You can bet Epstein's pilot knows he'll be in big trouble if he squealed.

How many witnesses will be testifying against her? I read four, but there's already been the pilot and one of the Jane Does. How will this take six weeks? Does that include jury deliberation time, a Christmas break etc

I think there will be definitely more than four witnesses, R57.

Like a pilot has never been aware of Epstein fucking on his plane.

I have been on a private plane twice and the first time I did I had sex; just so I could have had sex on a plane.

Does it happen right there in the cockpit?

He testified he could leave the cockpit and access the washroom at any time and he didn't see anything. Unless he ambushed the prosecution - he was their witness - why lie but conversely, why would they put him up? (Although he may be a small part of a bigger picture they are just beginning to paint.)

Bobby Kennedy, Jr on the plane? What a fuck up he is.

I'm guessing that all of the witnesses, except the girls / women accusers, are reluctant and maybe even hostile witnesses. Epstein and Maxwell had a lot of enablers surrounding them. The prosecution has to build its case, largely, with these enablers who are reluctant to testify.

The prosecution will use the pilot's testimony to illustrate taking minors over state lines for the purpose of providing sex

The pilot said that he thought the 15 year old was a grown woman. Sure, Jan. It's obvious his attorney prepped him so as not to incriminate himself.

They need shocking witnesses, each more shocking than the last!

This is where Ghislaine wearing a giant hat would come in handy.

I agree. No tv cameras. No Munchkinland Gazette's Dominic Dunne. No hats with veils. Most boring sex crimes trial ever.

She could have salvaged it and become a forbidden gay icon due to being fabulous. But no, she is trying to stay out of the hoosegow, so we get this church lady Ghislaine.

We need to have another "Screw you, Rusty!" moment.

^^ LMAO

For the love of god, Ghislaine bring the glamour.

No glamour in the OJ trial but it was still riveting. I'd totally watch this frump-fest if it was televised to see all the nuance - body language, voice tone, eye movements.

Agreed Dominick Dunne would have turned in good copy for Vanity Fair back when it was readable. He might though have been compromised by his quasi-acquaintance with and hopeful worship of the A-List.

[Quote] the women have violated a confidentiality agreement after being paid from a fund.

Do these agreements hold if there's a crime? Would not a violator become an accomplice to the crime. Does the law support connivance in criminality or does the agreement take legal precedence?

The OJ trial had many bizarre characters on the stand which was fun. People watched that trial around the eorld. If this trial were televised I think it would come close.

R70 you can always get the audio versions if you are unable to read these days.

Why are court drawings so bad?

I know. Journalism has gone to shit. Where are the decent artists? Have they gone to shit as well?

[quote]He might though have been compromised by his quasi-acquaintance with and hopeful worship of the A-List.

Never stopped him before.

It just occurred to me... you know what this trial also cries out for?

LARRY KING!

Larry King, Nancy Grace, Court TV, polarized pundits, etc Even Martha's camera-free Federal trial was a circus, but this nothing.

Such a rip off. What is the point of degrading human dignity to the point of OnlyFans and Real Housewives if we can't have this trial? I mean, that was deal, wasn't it?

75% of the courtroom got hard listening to the testimony about sitting on Epstein's face while pinching his nipples 'hard' as he fapped.

Remember, the Palm Beach PD interviewed more than 200 witnesses and 50 victims to prosecute Epstein. How easy it would be to call those detectives to the stand to read their case files. House staff, security, drivers who picked the kids up from school, literally hundreds of witnesses to ignore.

The 13yo virgin girl that Trump and Epstein fought over was also interviewed for this case that got covered up by Alex Acosta. But as expected, the prosecution is protecting all the rich pervs except the dead one.

They don't need all those witnesses to make their case. It would be a waste of the Court's time. But I do agree the big fish will be protected. I'm a bit surprised that some big names have already been dropped via the pilot's testimony although just being passengers shouldn't suggest they were necessarily participants in sex play Epstein also sought out connections with the powerful to pursue other interests.

It's BS that the federal trials are not televised (Maxwell, Duggar, and E. Holmes). The public has even more of an interest in these federal laws being broken (allegedly) than it does for state trials (Arbery murders, Rittenhouse). The federal laws apply to all of us (in the U.S.). Trials should be televised.

Agree that the court sketches are not very satisfying.

Asked about the well-known names who flew on Epstein's planes, Visoski mentioned Andrew and the former astronaut and senator John Glenn, the actors Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker and the violinist Itzhak Perlman. He said Donald Trump was a repeat flyer before he became president.

"There was more than once, I believe," Visoski said. "I certainly remember President Trump but not anyone else associated with him."

Trump, who once called Epstein a "terrific guy," told reporters in 2019 that they had a falling out 15 years earlier and that he "was not a fan of his."

The trial is too icky to go viral. Plus all of this info was revealed already. Nothing new.

Icky? Oh, gurl.

[Quote] But as expected, the prosecution is protecting all the rich pervs except the dead one.

This made me feel a little sick.

The lack of coverage on this is quite weird. It's got all the trappings that should capture America's attention. Or are we just over the rich people shenanigans?

Even the /ghislainemaxwell subreddit is eerily quiet.

Maybe Ghislane brought some underage girls into the courtroom and they're all fucking.

CNN reported that a woman testified today that Maxwell abused her.

Same witness also testified that, when she was 14, Epstein took her to Mar a Lago, where she met Donald Trump.

Daily Mail is eerily quiet on this, though. I'm calling shenanigans.

R72 The Court TV docuseries OJ25 is a must watch.

Republicans are hoping Trump gets caught up in this and removed from front runner status in 2024.

"If he raped little girls he'll fall down to second choice. We only hope" Mitch McConnell confided to his staff.

What did Ghislaine wear today?

Some 14 year old.

Any testimony about Ghislaine sitting on anybody's face?

It seems she and Epstein weren't really an item. She cared for him but the feeling wasn't mutual.

In the Netflix series it was revealed that Epstein was bi. Or gay for pay is more fitting. He had a long affair with billionaire Les Wexler who set Epstein up financially and eventually gave Epstein his Power of Attorney after which Epstein stole millions from him. Wexler never filed a criminal complaint for obvious reasons. Epstein was vile in so many ways.

Wexner has stepped away from almost everything. Yeah, he's old, but it's just the last couple years.

I wonder if Jizz ever walked in on Les giving Jeff a hummer?

Did Epstein ever have a serious relationship with a woman?

‘$100 Bills in Every Car’: Ex-Epstein Employee Details Ghislaine Maxwell’s Demands

[quote] making sure Epstein’s cars he kept at the property were stocked with cash — specifically “100-dollar bills in every car,”

[quote] Alessi said Maxwell told him only to speak when Epstein asked him questions and to avoid eye contact when he spoke to him. “You should never look at his eyes,” he recalled Maxwell said. “Just look at another part of the room and answer him.” In an affidavit unsealed earlier this year and reported by Insider, Alessi spoke about an elaborate messaging communication system Epstein used to make requests of his staff, routing written messages through his office in New York to Alessi rather than speaking to him in person in the house.

[quote] Epstein’s much-discussed black book made its courtroom debut as a sealed exhibit.

^^^ Paywalled. Kindly cut and paste.

Sounds like he had a sexual addiction problem. I bet you'd get 4 std's your first time with him.

Three things you can dead certain won't be touched in this trial:

1. Lesley Wexner. 2. The spying on behalf of Mossad. 3. The Clinton and other high-level connections.

Kirby Sommers on Twitter is providing juice that the papers aren't printing. e.g. that Juan Alessi, as part of his duties, was forced to clean Maxwell's large dildo.

The neighbour who lives across from Maxwell's London house said that Scotland Yard borrowed a room of his to photograph her house in 1994. He didn't know who lived there, but presumed it was a brothel because so many young girls were coming and going. So the authorities were fully aware of what was going on even then, and obviously it went no further because of the high level connections. That's the way the world works, folks!

R101. The woman sounds unhinged and obsessed with Epstein and Ghislaine. She also self published a book about Ghislaine on Amazon for $25.00. Bad reviews, too.

No argument that she comes across as unhinged, but if she reports stuff others don't, good luck to her. One needs to be alive to sources, particularly given papers like the NY Times are asleep at the wheel, or actively abetting wrong doing by non reporting for various reasons.

The NYT does a daily highlights of the trial but I don't subscribe. Can someone cut and paste this?

[Quote]Maxwell, 59, turned up to court in head-to-toe black today. Her sartorial choices so far in the trial have been a lot more subdued than the flashy ‘fits she wore as a jetsetting socialite. She’s mostly been opting for sweaters in shades of cream, gray and black, paired with black slacks

Oh, dear.

Pathetic...

[quote] Pagliuca, with his bouffant grey curly hair a spitting image for another great American, Jerry Springer, read out Carolyn’s surname by mistake. Funnily enough, he’d got previous for this, also reading out the true first name of the first female witness, “Jane”.

Absolute scum.

Yeah, I don't understand the intentional name slips unless they're meant to rock the witnesses confidence. To knock them off kilter a bit.

Lawyers in general are scum IMO. They have no ethical boundaries. I've sat thru a few depositions myself. The sole purpose of these guys is to win at any cost.

I don't know that a woman touching a girl's breasts and ass once is "soul-breaking" though. Sounds homophobic to me, but I'm a guy. Maybe we see things differently.

R109, For a girl to be raped at 4-years-old by her grandfather, raised by an alcoholic single mother, and then to be treated like a piece o meat by her "employer" describing her body as a good fit for a pedophile is dehumanizing as well as extremely degrading.

Yes, I agree. That's what I mean. The girl had so much abuse in her life that I can't view Maxwell's touching the"soul-breaking" event of her life.

I think the defense will go after these girls for continuing to go back for more. I think this is the question most observers would ask.

[quote] I think the defense will go after these girls for continuing to go back for more. I think this is the question most observers would ask.

Yea.

Of course, they didn’t pick girls from close families and parents who set boundaries. They picked the poor and sexually assured.

*abused, not assured.

This is all just designed to fuck with the jury's heads.

Omg

[quote] THE GREAT (FAKE) CHILD-SEX-TRAFFICKING EPIDEMIC

Maxwell pings to the moon and back.

Saw a report that Maxwell's little black book is going to remain secret. Washington sure covers for its own!

And how.

The other big, and very very sensitive story that hasn't been raised except by outré media (given her daddy was possibly snuffed by M----d as an embarrassment after being of no more use), is this one.

^^ That sounds like Epstein befriended Maxwell to get his hands on her cash just as he did with Les Wexler (who should have been forced to testify).

I thought the black book had been leaked along with all the names like years ago.

From the sound of things from annie farmer's sister who worked for Epstein, there are probably 100s if not over 1000 girls that were introduced to him via Maxwell. Maybe some were not abused but there could be many that did and ended up on drugs or who knows what

What a stranger guy Epstein was. He had no desire to bang these girls. So much fapping all over the place.

r121, Epstein's book, not hers.

Okay, so Maxwell's little black book is not the same as Eggdick's.

Omfg

Let go my egg-ohh.

Prosecution rested. Supposedly, defense began putting on a case today. Weird how the Duggar federal trial went really quickly. This trial is moving slowly as well as the Elizabeth Holmes trial (moving slowly). All federal cases.

She doesn't care about her mask being worn inappropriately every.single.day? She sketches the court artist sketching her? She's a goddamn sociopath giving little fuck yous all over the place. Like Lindsay Lohan's fuck you fingernail in court.

So all our lives there has been some conspiracy in one form or another about high ranking sex trafficking and blackmail and all sorts of dark dealings among the elite.

And over the last couple of decades, this stuff comes to life, little by little, out of the shadows, involving presidents and princes, just like the conspiracy tales told, complete with private islands and underage honey pots, smokey, back room deals with corrupt politicians, it was all true…and even a hanging in the county jail. And here is a woman at the center of it all on trial.

What is this even all about? Does it stop here? Does anybody even care? Where are the throngs of on lookers and choirs outside shouting for justice? Is this it? A half a century of these elaborate conspiracies that turn out to be true, and it all ends it a puff?

The truth is that this is all I want to know. This is where the curiosity stops for me. We are not meant to see past the edges or look outside of the frame. Maybe we couldn’t handle it. We are just not meant to know about what lies beyond this trial. The thing that ties this all together. That last, missing piece.

[quote]This is where the curiosity stops for me.

Not for me.

Photos Jizz wanted to bury...

R130, Mary!

R130. You haven't seen the half of it. The UN offices re sex trafficking (located in Vienna) have been at this for decades. The Epstein story is nothing compared to the enslavement and sex trafficking of people who have zero freedoms.

Jizz...haha! A perfect name for this cunt. I know, I know...it is pronounced "Ghee-lane" ffs, but screw French pronunciation! We make our own fun here...

Defense rests...

She's going to walk.

Trigger warning: Photo of Jizz rubbing the feet of convicted sex-offender, Eggdick, between her tits...

[quote]Maxwell confirmed she would not testify in her defense Friday. Asked by Judge Alison Nathan if she understood her rights, Maxwell pulled down her mask and responded, "Your honor, the government has not proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt and so there is no need for me to testify." The jury was not present.

Defense was weak...

This lying cunt was identified by one of Epstein's victims ...

[quote]While cross-examining Jane, the defense asked her who besides Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein had taken part in the group massages, offering names and descriptions. One of those Jane said had participated matched the description of Ms. Andersson-Dubin, though only her first name was cited.

[quote]“You told the government about a woman named Eva who joined in, correct?” asked a defense lawyer, Laura Menninger.

[quote]“Correct,” Jane replied.

[quote]While questioning Ms. Andersson-Dubin, the defense showed her a picture of Jane. Ms. Andersson-Dubin testified: “I don’t recall ever meeting this person.”

[quote]Later, Mr. Pagliuca asked: ““Have you ever been in a group sexual encounter with the person we are calling Jane”

[quote]“Absolutely not,” Ms. Andersson-Dubin replied, also adding that she had never been in a group massage with Jane.

[quote]On cross-examination, a prosecutor asked Ms. Andersson-Dubin had any memory problems.

[quote]“It’s very hard for me to remember anything far back and sometimes I can’t remember things from last month My family notices it. I notice it. It’s been an issue.”

Wot? That's it for the defense? Ghislaine will get an appeal granted based on her lawyers' incompetence. Perhaps this is a strategy. She most def is going to be convicted on some of these counts.

Of course, of all the high-powered men involved, it is a woman who will be held accountable. Not that she shouldn't be, it's that she is only one of many men.

Reporting on this trial is so sparse it's ridiculous. Plus to write GM "refused" to testify i s such bad journalism. She "declined" to testify which is everyone's right.

Looks as if closing arguments took place today.

BBC did report on the trial.

[quote] Judge Alison Nathan said over the weekend that jurors would be instructed that they may choose to convict Ms Maxwell if they conclude she either ignored or "consciously avoided" knowledge of Epstein's underage sexual encounters.

The NY Post has a fairly good running commentary. They even provide pics of Epstein's dildos.

Is she dead yet?

Verdict probably today, everyone will want to be out before Friday, Xmas Eve. She'll be celebrating on Epstein Island by Thursday. night.

Even if she wins, I'm sure they're seizing her assets. You can't make 30million pimping girls and keep the money.

Even DL seems bored by all this.

I believe the 30M was hers. Epstein gave it back to her. But she received it from her dubious father after his death.

I'm going to call aquittal. I'm probably wrong. But that's what my instinct tells me. If I get it right I'm making French Toast with real maple syrup.

[quote]I get it right I'm making French Toast with real maple syrup.

And if you get it wrong, it's Eggo with Aunt Jemima syrup.

Every minute that passes now, Jizz is that much closer to her island Xmas vacation. Delay means somebody in that room wants to vote "not guilty", and it only takes one of them to send her on her merry way.

Jurors submitted questions focused on the girls'/women's testimonies. Asking for transcripts.

There are 6 counts so a lot to review. At least jurors seem to be taking this seriously.

This article does a good job of disvussing the complexity of the counts: IMO

R117 Agree. No straight woman born with a head of hair like hers wears it in a butch pixie like that.

Jurors have gone home for Christmas Will return Monday. Imagine all the influence they'll be exposed to. I'd sequester them until they finished the job.

Wow, I thought they’d decide, 1 way or another, before Christmas.

There isn't really one way or the other when there are 6 separate counts to consider. If a jury is thoughtful this can take a long time examining the evidence one count at a time.

I can't even find the federal law re sex trafficking which is a minor part of USA human trafficking law. If it reads as loosely as human trafficking jurors are going to have to decipher a lot on their own IMO.

It seems odd to me that federal sentencing guidelines for the very same crime are harsher than state guidelines.

I wonder how successfully jurors will stick to their oath to not discuss this case with others during Christmas.

R156 yes, they do, and I've known some. It is preferred among some women, and they've all been straight.

It wouldn't surprise me if Ghislaine is bisexual, but it doesn't have anything to do with her hairstyle choices.

The trial only took about 3 weeks and the judge gave the jury an 83-page charge document. If you want to look at that, it's been uploaded at the link. Judge gave the jury the option of deliberating later into the evening and tomorrow but the jury declined, so they are in no rush.

There's no way that will happen, [R160]. I wonder if her lawyers aren't fighting it in the event that she's found guilty they can appeal and argue jury contamination?

The jurors:

A woman, 61, working as a trader’s assistant for an unidentified bank after previously working at ING. She lives in the Bronx with her son, daughter-in-law and grandchildren and said she watches a lot of “police shows” like “Law & Order.”

A woman, 28, living in the Bronx and doing clerical work for the City of New York while she finishes her master’s degree in public administration. She said she’d heard of Epstein before but not Maxwell.

A woman, 60, with a master’s in urban affairs who prepares contracts for the government. The Manhattan resident said she doesn’t read newspapers but follows online news feeds.

A man, 44, who studied information and knowledge strategy at Columbia University and is now vice president of quality at a life-sciences company. He lives with his husband in Westchester County, where they enjoy playing board games.

A woman, 51, who has lived in Manhattan her entire life. An administrative manager at a “metals industry” non-profit, she works out and visits her mother everyday. She said she’d heard of Epstein and his suicide as well as Maxwell’s arrest.

A woman, 70, who retired in 2017 after working in human resources at a non-profit. She frequents cooking websites and also enjoys “Jeopardy,” chess, knitting and bicycle riding.

A woman, 53, who lives in the Bronx and works as a home health aide. An immigrant who came to the U.S. with a middle-school education, she had heard of Epstein but didn’t remember hearing about Maxwell. She likes watching “The Bold and the Beautiful” and cartoons with her grandchildren.

A man, 35, who graduated from college in 2008 with a finance degree and has been living in Manhattan for the past 10 years. He works as an executive assistant at a private company within the financial industry.

A man, 33, who works for a “government entity” and lives in the Bronx with his wife. He says he mostly watches sports and thinks he was watching football when he flipped the channel and saw the news about Epstein’s suicide.

A man, 34, who lives in Manhattan and previously worked in advertising but is not currently employed. He said he knew of both Epstein and Maxwell but didn’t follow the case “super well.”

A man, 41, living in Manhattan and working as a musician. He said he’d heard of Epstein being a “billionaire who solicited prostitutes or underage girls” and was aware of Maxwell being his “girlfriend or romantic partner.”

A man, 64, who is a lifelong Manhattan resident and has worked for the past 24 years as a paraprofessional for a “public entity.” He lives alone, doesn’t read the news and is not on social media, preferring to spend his free time watching old movies and the Mets.

Is the jury not secret? Those are pretty revealing details.

Epstein's victim compensation fund paid out to about 130 women so I have to question the prosecutors only calling 4 women when most of the jurors were only barely aware of the case. There would be some strength in numbers. I wouldn't assume all were involved with Maxwell but there are others who have talked about her being an accomplice of Epstein's but who were not called, like Giuffre and Ransome who have sued Maxwell too.

Yes, but that's problematic as well for the prosecution IMO. That many women received millions to settle and now here they are again. I think the prosecution was wise to bring in persons who saw the steady stream of girls like the house man and others. Plus many of those girls spoke of walking away. Their testimony might have a negative effect implying all the others could have walked away as well but they chose not to.

I wonder if jurors heard testimony that most of the girls originally testified to liking Maxwell. I think even Guiffre spoke of this in the doc Filthy Rich.

I hope we'll learn what swayed jurors to vote as they will eventually though it's probably unlikely.

[quote]Their testimony might have a negative effect implying all the others could have walked away as well but they chose not to.

R166 Annie Farmer's testimony made clear that she was an example of a failed attempt to groom her - she never reciprocated sexually, didn't take money from them at the time (only accepted a pair of boots), and she never returned when it was clear what their real intentions were.

IMO Annie Farmer was a poor witness for the prosecution in the case against Maxwell. She would have been important in a case against Epstein however.

She was introduced to Epstein by her older sister Maria who was already providing massages for and having sex with Epstein.

She accepted money from Epstein for travel and expenses.

She willingly traveled to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico (on Epstein's dime).

It was there she met Maxwell so Maxwell's name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as sex trafficking with respect to Annie Farmer at least. It was Epstein who invited/lured her to New Mexico.

I'm not sure why Annie Farmer was called as a witness against Maxwell. Maybe it was to try to lock down the sex with minors counts in the case, but even them Maxwell didn't have sex with her She allegedly touched her breasts IIRC. Didn't her mother corroborate this on the stand?

The USA Judicial system is terrifying to me. I've been deposed twice in civil cases that involved friends who were screwed by their hetero siblings out of their sizeable inheritances. I stood up for my friends and I was attacked in vicious and fantastical ways But I stood my ground

I don't trust any attorneys in the USA (I'm European) nor do I trust the testimony of most people after the attorneys have gotten to them. It must be hellish to serve as a juror especially in a case like this where large sums of money blur the waters .

^^ sorry - muddy the waters. (told you I'm European. Though I did attend grad Uni in the UK so I should know better).

I think Annie Farmer was chosen because when Epstein invited Annie to Zorro Ranch he spoke to her mother on the phone beforehand. Her mother testified that when she asked him who would be chaperoning, Epstein said 'my wife Ghislaine' - meaning that Maxwell was used to make the mother comfortable with giving permission.

Then Annie arrives at Zorro Ranch, discovers that she's there with just Epstein and Maxwell. Maxwell works on blurring Annie's boundaries, giving her a massage which she requires that Annie be nude for. Maxwell tells her to turn over and massages her breasts. So the point here is that Maxwell was in on it, conspiring and helping to groom and entice Annie for Epstein.

[Quote]So the point here is that Maxwell was in on it, conspiring and helping to groom

Oh yes, I can see how this would go to conspiracy.

And what do you make of Maria introducing her young sister to Epstein.?

R171 Shady, very shady. Most of the women have talked about how they were urged to find other women to bring back to Epstein.

Lisa Bloom who was initially very positive that there would be a conviction is now a bit pessimistic:

[quote]"(The jury have) reviewed a lot of transcripts and they appear to be taking their job seriously. I’ll say that. However, I am getting concerned. Jurors usually want to wrap up their decisions before a weekend, especially a holiday weekend. Do they not believe the accusers? Do some of them have reasonable doubt?"

Yes, the fact that they could not come to a unanimous conclusion in 3 days means almost certainly that at least one juror is pulling strongly for "not guilty." There could easily be more than one who are sticklers for acquittal. I have not looked at the Counts closely, but it seems likely that the jury might settle on a finding of "guilty" for one or two of the less serious charges and find "not guilty" on the rest. Things are looking pretty good for Maxwell right now, I'd say, even if she does get to spend Xmas in the slammer.

IMO, part of the problem in prosecuting sexual stuff (on minors) that happened a long time ago is this: When the witnesses / victims testify, they're now full-blown adults. The jurors look at them and don't really think of them as having been young; they (the witnesses / victims) look "OK" now, etc.

The jury is being ridiculous. She is guilty and there is no question about it. Not a shred of reasonable doubt. Just plain guilty.

Omg, I just had to share the jury story in this article, it's a great story even though it doesn't have anything to do with this case.

I do know an attorney who was involved in a criminal trial where the jury was deliberating during Christmas-time. My friend is a defense attorney and the charge was murder. He said that the jury, at first (before Christmas), said they were deadlocked (hung). The judge told the jury to get back in there (in a nicer way), continue deliberating, and try to come up with a verdict.

Jury came back, right before Christmas: guilty as charged.

My friend's opinion is that the jurors wanted to be done w/trial before Christmas. Friend opined that without the pressure of Christmas, they would have declared deadlock, again (or even found client not guilty).

R178 That's interesting since Mitch Epner (he's a former AUSA) had an older article up saying that jurors are more likely to feel the holiday cheer or 'good will to men' and are more likely to gift an acquittal.

I guess you just can't really know in the end. (It's great fun to speculate though.)

I'm very surprised they didn't finish this up today. It means there is significant discord amongst the jurors, to the extent that they knew it couldn't be resolved quickly. That's to Jizz's benefit.

If it's a hung jury, we can watch the entire trial a second time.

Jizzy was born on December 25th and it will be her 60th birthday this year (one of her middle names is Noelle because of that i.e. French for 'Christmas'). And here's the prison menu which Josie Ensor of The Telegraph got hold of: Meatloaf, mashed potatoes..

It made me wonder: what does Maxwell identify as? Her mother wasn't Jewish (French Protestant), so technically she isn't Jewish.

R179, I think there was enough admissible evidence that pointed to a murder conviction. I give my friend (defense attorney) credit for making the jury take so long to decide and to almost deadlock. The murder victim was young, with no criminal background. So, I think the jury took the case really seriously.

No, I am not advocating for someone to get away with murder, but I work in the legal field and admire people who are thorough at their jobs, cross examine witnesses , etc.

In the meantime...

Here's a brief summary of the testimony of the 4 women:

Thanks, R185. I think the jury might find that last witness (the one who used her real name) more credible than the others.

Jury asking for office supplies: Post-Its, board paper, and highlighter pens. Also, per CNN, asking for transcripts for all 4 woman / girl witnesses. I'm guessing they'll be making a chronological timeline and comparing & contrasting what the witnesses said then and now.

At this point, all I can do is fantasize how Jizz is gonna use her million$$ to completely DESTROY the lives of her accusers, make them wish they'd never been born.

That's my girl!

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I'm loving this jury. At least they're being thoughtful.

I recall seeing a chart the Defense presented showing the contact interconnections between the 4 women and between certain attorneys (it's in a link somewhere above) that I thought was fairly powerful. It was meant to lay out a conspiracy between all these parties for a money grab and to get their stories straight.

I'm wondering if the request for Post-Its and board paper is related as r187 stated.

The judge appears to be antsy so she may ask jurors to deliberate until they have a verdict according to NY Post.

Thanks, R192. The title of the article is crazy, though. Of course you're supposed to deliberate until you get a verdict. I think the gist was that the judge is now asking the jury to deliberate until 6 p.m., which sounds late.

I'm a bit surprised Covid hasn't knocked out a few jurors by now. No idea how many extras are on the sidelines If even one juror tests poz after this xmas break deliberations will start from square one for the newbie If a verdict doesn't come in today I would think a hung jury might be expected

Seems like you'd almost want to have them sequestered, after the fact.

I agree. Lock them up.

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"Progressing", at this point, suggests to me that they are in agreement that she is guilty of at least some of the Counts.

GUILTY

Burn baby burn!👌🔥

I fully expect she will not be convicted on all counts, but count 6 looks ominous for her IMO and that's a big one in terms of sentencing guidelines.

[quote] Four of Ghislaine Maxwell’s siblings — Kevin, Isabel, Ian and Christine — arrived at the courthouse Monday morning ahead of closing arguments in their sister’s trial.

I’m always rather surprised to meet Jews called Christina or Christian.

R202 Their mother isn't Jewish (French Protestant); therefore the children aren't Jewish since you're only Jewish if your mother is. And the father (initially at least) tried to get away from and deny his Jewish heritage. Ghislaine herself has said that she isn't Jewish but feels like that she is.

The jury have asked for several more witness testimony and asked if they would have to work over the new year. Reading tea leaves but I sort of feel like that it sounds there is a hold out or two and the rest are trying to methodically persuade that person/s.

I don't want to be paranoid but in a case like this, I could imagine some very powerful people wanting to bribe or threaten a juror so that Ghislaine gets off and is sure to never 'talk'. MARY!

Jizzie will walk free.

The presumption of labeling your thread “Part I!”

Judge Bulldog will nail Maxwell's arse at sentencing. No way the jury votes for acquittal on all counts.

CNN says verdict reached.

(Rubbing hands together...)

Guilty on all but count two.

Jizzy, you guilty.

amazing. Btw count 6 is the worst; the sentence is up to 40 years. Count 2 is just up to 5 years.

CNN says guilty on five of six.

Sky News is all over this. Very thoughtful jury. Well done.

She will serve AT LEAST 10 years because that is the minimum sentence for Count 6. Federal sentences are served concurrently so the jury did an amazing job because if they'd just found her guilty of the conspiracy charges, she'd only have served up to 5 years.

Maxwell still awaits trial on two counts of perjury.

R216 One of her perjury charges alleges that she lied about sex toys being in her bedroom. She's not going to win that one. There are photographs as well as testimony from the housekeeper and victims.

Very creepy woman.

Skank should have Epsteined herself.

Sadly there is still time.

^There's still lots of time for that, you know.

Someone made a Prince Andrew tribute

I'm wondering which federal prison she'll go to. It will be considerably better than the hell-hole she's known the past one year plus.

Is there reason now for her to start talking and naming names? Will it get her anything?

She'll be found dead before sentencing. She knows too much, and those in charge know she has little incentive to remain quiet now.

On Sky News (free on YouTube) there are a variety of interesting interviews with connected people. One is a journalist who's been in contact with the family over this process.

She says the family was convinced that Ghislaine would be acquitted. So much so they spent time, energy and money to secure an apt in NY or her, sevurity, etc. They are in a state of shock.

Maxwell won't talk because she has years of appeals ahead of her. And the perjury trial.

[quote]I'm wondering which federal prison she'll go to. It will be considerably better than the hell-hole she's known the past one year plus.

Does the lesbionic judge get to decide which prison she goes to?

R226 When Ghislaine who legitimately has French citizenship (France does not extradite to the US) didn't move to France in the whole *year* she had after Epstein's death, I kind of realised that she's arrogant and thinks that she's untouchable, so that doesn't surprise me.

Or she may have felt innocent.

The one in Colorado has a lot of the big name convicts. It's a tough place.

[quote]When Ghislaine who legitimately has French citizenship (France does not extradite to the US) didn't move to France in the whole *year* she had after Epstein's death,

Weren't there already warrants out for her at that time? How would she have left the US without being detained?

Yikes this Brit journalist (who actually sounds Italian by birth) says Maxwell's leg shackles have been so tight her skin has torn.

Colorado is a men's prison. She'll go to a place like the one Martha visited because she is a non-violent offender.

She really is dumb cunt for not fleeing. She got so used to having a friend in every corner that it got to her head. Hubris.

R232 She's a multi-millionaire. It would be easy for her to flee and is the very reason why the judge consistently refused her bail.

R224, it would probably get her a chance to be found “unresponsive” in her cell.

[quote]On Sky News (free on YouTube) there are a variety of interesting interviews with connected people. One is a journalist who's been in contact with the family over this process. She says the family was convinced that Ghislaine would be acquitted. So much so they spent time, energy and money to secure an apt in NY or her, sevurity, etc. They are in a state of shock.

This is the BEST part of it all. I would pay money to have seen the looks on the faces of these imperious cunts when the verdict was read.

Why hubris? She hadn't seen Epstein in years. She had her own life, her husband. There was no warrant for her arrest.

Again, I tell you, she wasn't arrested for about a YEAR after Epstein's death. I truly think that the feds were hoping that she would get out to France but she was so arrogant that she didn't, So then the feds felt forced to arrest her because of the public interest in the case.

She needs to be put in protective custody so she can name names.

That's what I would do.

Lisa Bloom is saying it's too late for Maxwell to spill big names at this point for lighter sentencing. That time has passed.

Didn't realize that France will not extradite. She could have taken a private plane to France. She could have flown commercially, before the warrants came out.

She doesn't have to name anyone. There was no shortage of incriminating photos and video. The fact that none of us have heard the names should tell us all we need to know about our government.

They all get to skate away.

[quote]Weren't there already warrants out for her at that time? How would she have left the US without being detained?

When epstein killed himself (2019) there weren't any warrants. She was arrested in 2020. I don't see a date on her indictment, but it was right around the time of her arrest (June 2020). Up until her arrest, she was free to go anywhere she wanted

R242, France wouldn’t have extradited her because she was a French citizen. Normally countries never extradite their own citizens.

R242 Exactly and what's more, she is fluent in French, and was able to offer bail of $28m+ so she certainly wasn't poor at all. Her likely first language is French given that her mother is French and that she reportedly spoke French with her brothers and sisters in court. Yet she still didn't fly to France and live a quiet/normal life there. She just really believed that she'd get away with everything.

Yawn, r225, life isn't one big conspiracy theory. If she had any interest in naming names she would have done so by now

I hope this encourages other women to come forward about this case and others. If no one ever has to pay for their crimes, what is the incentive to report them?

The judge did a good job, IMO. So did the jurors. On the Josh Duggar trial (pron) thread, a few DL posters were expecting a verdict on the first couple of hours of deliberations. It takes time to sift through the evidence.

[Quote]She doesn't have to name anyone. There was no shortage of incriminating photos and video

OK but photos aren't incriminating unless they show sex acts. There are photos of E and M with the Pope as well. They sought out big names every where they went. One can't assume all were complicit

I want to know what happened to all the photos and videos the Feds found in Epstein's homes. According to multiple tech guys interviewed (like the one on Epsten's island in the doc series Filthy Rich) all Epstein's homes were thoroughly wired for cameras and sound

R250 One of the Epstein documentaries I watched said that it was clear that Epstein had been tipped off and had removed that - there were obvious missing wires and so on. I want to say that it was the Netflix documentary, but I'm not sure.

We're moving to Slovenia. We want Barron to experience the... culture of his ancestors 'n stuff-

Melaniaaaaa?!!

IMO, this is the end of the inquiry. A pound of flesh has been paid.

Also: Who paid for her defense? At least 4 attorneys, according to NYT. I'm sure some heavy hitters (Trump, Clinton, Prince Andrew, etc.) made indirect payments to pay for her defense.

Ghislaine seems like a "ride or die" type of woman. She also seeem slightly nuts, IMO.

Prince Andrew will have lie low indefinitely.

I wish her the best.

Nah. Sometimes up. A fix is in. Just try to remember the last time a rich, powerful person was convicted of a crime on this country. One with evidence of rape and pedophilia against the most powerful people in this country. Sometimes up.

R253 A JP Morgan banker testified during the trial that Epstein made payments adding up to $30.8m to Ghislaine. So.. Epstein is the answer to your question.

Oh, it can't be the Pope. Everybody knows the Catholics only play on their own team!

Okay, but did she actually do anything? Or was this a case of MeToo / Believe All Victims hysteria gone awry? Was there any REAL evidence?

If Epstein hadn't been "suicided" in jail this never would have happened.

R251 according to Filthy Rich the Palm Beach mansion search, some time in the mid 2010s, was tipped off by someone in the PBPD. That’s the one where the cops found wires hanging out with computers missing.

Not the UES mansion, though. He didn’t know how close the feds were onto him, and he was arrested the same day (I believe) that they executed the search warrant on the 7-story townhouse. The feds were photographed lugging multiple contractors' garbage bags full of evidence from the NY mansion. What happened to all those photos?

In the NYC search they also found gold, diamonds and expired passports in other individuals' names for Epstein's use. (Not sure how that works) Epstein was counting on being able to book it from Manhattan before being nabbed.

R253, she paid for her defense. She has $28 million in cash that she was willing to put up in order to get bail

R258, get the fuck out of here.

[quote]One of the Epstein documentaries I watched said that it was clear that Epstein had been tipped off and had removed that - there were obvious missing wires and so on. I want to say that it was the Netflix documentary, but I'm not sure.

I think the police saw the equipment and said they'd have to get a search warrant for it. So they actually left and during that time all the devices/hard drives, tapes etc were removed. Usually what the police do in those situation is leave a police officer to stand guard over the scene while other officers get the search warrant. This prevents anyone from tampering with the scene, removing incriminating evidence, etc

The cops were dirty

They will kill her to try to stop her from spilling the dirt. Hopefully she has put the info "" in case of death release"

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In all these photos, Ghislaine is clinging to Epstein like a koala bear to a tree. He's never really focused on her (talking on the phone, focused more on the camera, etc.).

They won't kill her, it would be too obvious/suspicious. Her siblings, who have been at her trial as well as speaking to the media, will go nuclear if she is murdered in prison like JE. Not worth it. It would be a bigger scandal than Epstein's death.

She will go to the federal pen until she and her siblings can wrangle a presidential pardon out of someone.

R266- Yes, it was embarrassing. She humiliated herself for him. He appeared to tolerate her, and that was all. She acted as if she worshiped him.

[quote]So @ BBCNews has decided that the expert witness they need on the Maxwell trial is Alan Dershowitz. Who has taken the opportunity to say that it shows how accusations against him and Prince Andrew are wrong.

She was said to be madly in love him. Did they ever have a sexual relationship even if it was only to string her along?

R267 a presidential pardon?!? Are you kidding? That’d be political suicide.

If the evil clown , or any republicunt is elected, this will happen. Before that I expect a cushy, medium security prison stay for her. A mistrial, maybe for jury tampering.

"Who paid for her defense?"

R273- Isn't he the one who made Epstein rich?

R272, occasionally someone who is well-off gets locked up so that people can pretend that the system is “fair.”

R273, of course he is.

[quote]a presidential pardon?!? Are you kidding? That’d be political suicide.

No, I'm not kidding. Are you young or something? Unworthy criminals get pardoned every presidential cycle. Years have passed, there is little fanfare. Clinton pardoned all of the friends/associates who took the fall for him and Hillary over the years. He also pardoned Marc Rich, a traitor to the US and a fugitive living in Switzerland, because Rich's friend pledged a billion dollars to the Clinton Global Initiative. Trump pardoned Scooter Libby, Cheney's former Chief of Staff who was convicted of election fraud. Trump also pardoned everyone who could pay 7 figures for it. I could go on all night about presidential pardons.

Political suicide? Doesn't really seem to be the case.

She won't talk if she can't talk. I wish her well.

Yeah, the pardons will take place on the way out, though. Governors of states do pardons as well.

Poor poor Jizzie… what’s a girl to do now?

Trump considered pardoning Ghislaine before he left office. If he gets back into the White House, every CEO, Prince and billionaire is getting a pardon for this.

His older brother also swam for Penn.

I promise you he has low self-esteem and a sociopathic desire to be a champion at something--obviously okay with cheating.

Thanks r281. The thread your post was aimed at — Lia Thomas, cheating male swimmer on Penn's women's team—seems to have disappeared into the tr*ns Fantastic Beasts obscurial hole.

[R239], in that case, and since I reckon the Feds traced her every move, why didn't they communicate to her to leg it to the nearest Air France ticket office and get the hell out of Dodge?

R283 That would be corrupt if it came out. After the Acosta corruption over the sweet deal he gave Epstein (and remember that Acosta had to step down from his position because of it) I doubt they wanted to risk doing more of that. It just feels like they were like 'oh we really do have to do this, she's not going to do a Polanski'.

I wish I had such supportive siblings

Through thick and thin

OMG

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I didn't realize she looked so old now. I guess the press kept using pics from her high-living days.

Do prisons allow hair dye?

When the fake husbear "moved on," did he take the 28 million$$ that Jizz had given him, for safekeeping, too? You think she'd like to get it back?

She married him in 2016. He left his wife for her. The new gf is fug as hell. This guy is strange.

You can buy a LOT of prison candy bars with 28 million bucks.