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Betty Buckley about Sondheim's death

Nice tribute. Then someone asks about Into the Woods. She says the negotiations broke down.

The post: Yes, I did the first workshop and the pre Broadway workshop. Our negotiations broke down. I never should have let that happen. One of my deepest regrets. I'll never forget the day during rehearsals he took me in a rehearsal studio and said I wrote this for you. He then played "Stay With Me" and I wept. I will never forget...that and so many other precious moments of encounters I was blessed to have with him

She says that about Carrie too. She was offered it before Barbara Cook but "they couldn't come to terms."

What did she want that they wouldn't give her? She let two great roles get away even though Carrie came back to her.

by Anonymousreply 531December 22, 2021 6:56 PM

Betty Buckley = hardcore PRIMADONA!!!

You sabotaged you career, dear. Get over it. And put in your teeth the next time you're interviewed!

by Anonymousreply 1November 27, 2021 3:41 AM



by Anonymousreply 2November 27, 2021 3:44 AM

She also was in heavy negotiations to headline the Broadway version of Blood Brothers. (not the version that got to Bway with the British cast but an American cast like 3 years prior.)

Instead she did Stardust a concert musical that never got to NYC.

by Anonymousreply 3November 27, 2021 3:46 AM

I read in the book about the Barbizon Hotel, that Betty arrived in NYC at Grand Central Station, headed north to the hotel to drop off her luggage and then went off for a walk in the theater district. She saw an open down with a casting call notice and auditions being held right there. She walked in, cold auditioned and got the role in the original cast of 1776. I think she always expects it to be that easy, and that much in her favor.

by Anonymousreply 4November 28, 2021 1:51 PM

[quote]What did she want that they wouldn't give her?

Her dressing room rider included...

Only red M&Ms.

BBQ Hot Pockets

A chilled 6pk of Mr. Pibb.

An advanced copy of The National Enquirer.


A year's supply of Rice-Roni, the San Francisco treat!

by Anonymousreply 5November 28, 2021 2:06 PM

What was the San Diego treat, and why is no one excited about that? Or San Jose for that matter?

by Anonymousreply 6November 28, 2021 2:11 PM

Buckley was deep in negotiations for doing the movie version of MAME, but they broke down and then, famously, Gary did not talk Lucy out of it.

And there went Buckley's only shot at an Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 7November 28, 2021 2:22 PM

"I'll never forget when Steve, that wonderful man, took me aside and said, "I wrote this for you" and played "Rose's Turn." He meant the lyrics, of course, but I wept and expressed my deep, deep thanks. But I was only twelve so Merman stole it from me, as the negotiations broke down over the braces on my teeth.

by Anonymousreply 8November 28, 2021 2:32 PM

I starting to think Betty’s memoir will be called “The Negotiations Broke Down: My Greatest Almost Roles” by Betty Buckley.

by Anonymousreply 9November 28, 2021 2:46 PM

I imagine Betty wanted her name above the title. As Into The Woods evolved, it was obvious it was an ensemble show so the producers probably wouldn't give her sole above the title credit.

by Anonymousreply 10November 28, 2021 3:10 PM

Is this the same Stephen Sondheim that wrote original songs for me?

by Anonymousreply 11November 28, 2021 3:20 PM

'The negotiations broke down.' Translation-not enough money.

by Anonymousreply 12November 28, 2021 3:39 PM

“Don’t people understand, I played the lead cat in Cats!”

by Anonymousreply 13November 28, 2021 3:40 PM

Has Betty Lynn come out yet?

by Anonymousreply 14November 28, 2021 3:45 PM

She says she's straight.

by Anonymousreply 15November 28, 2021 4:09 PM

Those final notes of He Plays the Violin are among the most unpleasant on an obc.

by Anonymousreply 16November 28, 2021 4:36 PM

r4 actually the story is that she got an agent thru the Miss America pageant (yes Betty was a pageant girl!) She didn't win Miss Texas but did really well in the talent part. They invited a lot of the high talent scorers to Atlantic City (this was when the show was a whole week of various shows.) She wowed some agency and they offered to sign her. Her father was opposed so she finished college to appease him. The agency said they'd wait for her.

Then she got to NY a few years later, went to the agency as soon as she arrived and they sent her over to the 1776 audition which she got. Nothing has ever been that easy since she has noted. She has said she was so green that she didn't even know how to dress for NYC weather. Howard da Silva told her Betty you have to layer your clothes. A sweater under the coat etc.

by Anonymousreply 17November 28, 2021 4:43 PM

Betty did an exqusite recording of "Stay With Me" in a medley with "Children and Art." Can't find it on youtube.

by Anonymousreply 18November 28, 2021 6:48 PM

Wasn’t Betty a bit of a cougar for younger men, R14?

by Anonymousreply 19November 28, 2021 7:47 PM

Betty was the best Norma Desmond after Gloria.

by Anonymousreply 20November 28, 2021 8:45 PM

Broadway honors Sondheim. Look who is front and center of course.

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by Anonymousreply 21November 28, 2021 9:21 PM

Singing a song no one has ever heard.

by Anonymousreply 22November 28, 2021 9:22 PM

I follow her on Scruff - erm, Instagram and she's been going on about Sondheim for a couple of days.

And everybody knows I was really his favorite. Well, after Jonny fuckin' Bailey.

by Anonymousreply 23November 28, 2021 9:47 PM

I know several people who ha e worked with Betty and they all loved her BUT every one of them has a story about how self centered she can be at times.

by Anonymousreply 24November 28, 2021 9:47 PM

[quote]every one of them has a story about how self centered she can be at times.

She's an actress for Christ's sake, they all are.

by Anonymousreply 25November 28, 2021 9:53 PM


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by Anonymousreply 26November 28, 2021 9:56 PM

Betty B did the workshop of "Tales of the City" and was signed to open the show in San Francisco (as Mrs. what's her name, the Olympia Dukakis part). Not long before rehearsals were to start, she gave them a list of dates she needed off for concerts, including in the previews (there was only a week of them). The producers refused and called Judy Kaye, who did the show and got great reviews.

by Anonymousreply 27November 28, 2021 10:03 PM

And the show died.

by Anonymousreply 28November 28, 2021 10:25 PM

Clearly Buckley knew it would and got out of it.

by Anonymousreply 29November 28, 2021 10:44 PM

Here's my favorite Betty Lynn story, from an old thread:

[quote]I had a friend who was a company manager at a regional arts center. She said her most bizarre encounter with a star was Buckley. She apparently was insistent on being driven to a local CVS so she could buy some makeup before her evening gig. Standing in one aisle was a Sarah Michelle Gellar cutout, and when Buckley saw it, she took a Sharpie out of her purse and drew a mustache on it!

by Anonymousreply 30November 28, 2021 10:50 PM

^ That is fucking hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 31November 28, 2021 10:52 PM

Did they work together?

by Anonymousreply 32November 28, 2021 10:56 PM

Per the other thread, r32:

[quote]Betty was also escorted off the soundstage and fired during production of SIMPLY IRRESISTIBLE, starring Sarah Michelle Gellar. Her role was curtailed with most of her dialogue assigned to another character. And in the footage she does appear in she looks like shit because the dp, the make-up and hair departments loathed her.

by Anonymousreply 33November 28, 2021 10:59 PM

She answers almost every tweet directed at her. Even ones that simply mention her name without @ing her- she must sit there and search her name constantly. It's kinda cool.

by Anonymousreply 34November 28, 2021 11:02 PM

She sounds like a thoroughly unlikeable person yet she was great in Sunset. I guess if I saw her on the street and told her that her performance was tremendous she'd bite my head off.

by Anonymousreply 35November 28, 2021 11:07 PM

I've met her a couple of times, r34. She was always gracious when interacting with fans.

by Anonymousreply 36November 28, 2021 11:08 PM

Has Liza Minnelli issued any statement about Stephen Sondheims death?

by Anonymousreply 37November 28, 2021 11:20 PM

He wasn't a fan

SSS: Will we be hearing much Sondheim material at your upcoming concert at the Carlyle?

Betty Buckley: Probably not. He doesn't like my arrangements and he let me know that when I was in London, which was heartbreaking because it was one of the biggest, one of the most shocking moments of my life. I'd sent him a couple of my CDs because we recorded a lot of his songs and he came backstage and congratulated me and I could tell that he seemed kind of uncomfortable and I said, "Mr. Sondheim, I sent you my CDs and you never responded." He said, "Well I wouldn't have brought it up but since you did, I'll tell you: I don't like what you've done with my songs." And I was just heartbroken. It was shattering to me. And he had some theories as to why I had arranged them that way and I said, "I honestly have been only inspired and only, completely...." I had no words to tell him how much I love his work. I can't even put it into language, how meaningful it is to me and how important his work has been for me.

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by Anonymousreply 38November 29, 2021 12:26 AM

That story makes me sad for Betty Lynn, r38

by Anonymousreply 39November 29, 2021 12:36 AM

It shouldn’t, r39. The arrangements do no favors to Sondheim or Buckley.

by Anonymousreply 40November 29, 2021 12:52 AM

Do you mean her albums Children Will Listen and With One Look r40?

by Anonymousreply 41November 29, 2021 12:53 AM

Betty and one of her boys.

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by Anonymousreply 42November 29, 2021 12:54 AM

She should have won an academy award for playing the psychologist in Split. They should make that trilogy a musical.

by Anonymousreply 43November 29, 2021 1:11 AM

During the early days of Facebook.......the pianist Paul Ford wrote a jaw dropping memory of Into the Woods w/ Betty's bad behavior during workshop. It was hilarious and horrifying.......and then Paul removed it within 24 hours on the advice of friends. I so wish I could read it again.

by Anonymousreply 44November 29, 2021 1:11 AM

Do you remember highlights r44?

by Anonymousreply 45November 29, 2021 1:12 AM

[quote]Has Liza Minnelli issued any statement about Stephen Sondheims death?

With that many Ss, she's schtill on hisch firscht name.

by Anonymousreply 46November 29, 2021 1:19 AM

alas, no!......

by Anonymousreply 47November 29, 2021 1:21 AM

[quote]She says she's straight.

We called her Betty Bothways.

by Anonymousreply 48November 29, 2021 1:31 AM

[quote]Singing a song no one has ever heard.


by Anonymousreply 49November 29, 2021 1:39 AM

I think her voice and performance and air boarder on offensive. Her overwrought self absorption rivals Mandy P. She can sing a song in tune and cohesively but the net effect is a cat whose tail has been run over well orchestrated.

by Anonymousreply 50November 29, 2021 1:55 AM

She admits to having a bad attitude in her younger days. She seems to work hard to be nice nowadays.

by Anonymousreply 51November 29, 2021 2:25 AM

She filled the huge Paper Mill Playhouse in "Gypsy" every performance. Sondheim came, he came to anything if the check cleared and he refused to bring to Broadway.

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by Anonymousreply 52November 29, 2021 2:33 AM

No it was Arthur Laurents who told her she was great but she's crazy if she thinks she's bringing this to Broadway.

by Anonymousreply 53November 29, 2021 2:34 AM

The old codger could only hope everyone who sang his songs sounded this good. Debbie Gibson was Louise.

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by Anonymousreply 54November 29, 2021 2:38 AM

She was very hurt by Laurents. I believe he told her she was the worst Rose he'd ever seen. She recently tweeted it was cruel and devastating.

It's amusing how she oft times tweets nice, supportive stuff to Patti LuPone. Patti ignores her.

by Anonymousreply 55November 29, 2021 2:42 AM

Why does Patti ignore her?

by Anonymousreply 56November 29, 2021 2:45 AM

Her Rose feels a lot like her Norma.

by Anonymousreply 57November 29, 2021 2:45 AM

[quote]Why does Patti ignore her?

It rhymes with shunt.

by Anonymousreply 58November 29, 2021 2:49 AM

Patti was so bitchy to her (and everyone frankly)

She once tweeted calling her a broke down diva because Buckley tells the story of how Meadowlark was written for her and then she spent years complaining to her therapist that she didn't get the role.

Lupone thinks it is one of her signature songs. Stupid since she didn't originate it. Carole Demas did.

I think Buckley's graciousness to Lupone is part of her new spritual path where she tries to be nicer to people. (in her mind I'm sure she hates LuPone and probably enjoyed her Sunset firing and taking over for her)

I've seen photos of her backstage with LuPone at War Paint.

(She also saw Close in Sunset on the same trip and posed with her and marveled that Close could still do the role saying the stairs alone would negate her playing the role now.)

by Anonymousreply 59November 29, 2021 2:50 AM

This is the best thread I’ve read in a while.

by Anonymousreply 60November 29, 2021 2:52 AM

I saw an interview about Sunset with her on youtube. She describes how wonderful London was but then when she got to NYC there were so many naysayers that she wasn't a big enough name to keep the show running. (It had become The Glenn Close Show by then. Questionable if anyone Miss Dunaway even could have made it profitable.)

I like how she said that she had tried to get the role originally but Patti got it and had (awkward pause) "her experience with it." Nicely omitting that LuPone was fired and near suicide so she says. Although would a narcissist like Patti ever kill themselves?

by Anonymousreply 61November 29, 2021 2:53 AM

Was all that face grimacing as if she was constipated Debbie’s version of acting in that clip?

by Anonymousreply 62November 29, 2021 3:03 AM

[Quote]He then played "Stay With Me" and I wept

Doesn't she always? She's an epic cunt who believes she's a sensitive artiste and human being. Nasty.

On another note I tried 3 times to see her in SB in London in the 90s but she was always "ill". Finally I bitched to two gay ushers standing by the bix office "WTF, is she a drug addict?". They fell out laughing which said it all.

by Anonymousreply 63November 29, 2021 3:34 AM

Ultimately she's responsible for her Broadway career not being up to the level of Bernadette, Patti and Christine. But she's certainly had fine moments.

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by Anonymousreply 64November 29, 2021 3:38 AM

Laurents may have been right.

Betty missed an opportunity right off the bat in the clip at R54.

Besides being entirely humorless, Buckley fails to incorporate the fact that up until this moment, Louise has been nothing but an afterthought.

The lyrics “I had a dream, a dream about you (Louise) baby” is her bullshitting on the fly - a Hail Mary pass, but you’d never know it from Betty’s performance there.

Betty was also all wrong when I saw her in the LA production of Grey Gardens.

There are some things she is just incapable of fathoming, so she covers it up with pathos and a belt.

by Anonymousreply 65November 29, 2021 4:08 AM

She must have been riveting in Carrie. That youtube of And Eve Was Weak is just awesome.

by Anonymousreply 66November 29, 2021 4:10 AM

R56 She ignores everybody. Never tweets @ anyone, and never responds. But like Betty will @ her, "Congratulations" on whatever, and no response. I guess Patti may not see it.

by Anonymousreply 67November 29, 2021 4:12 AM

Betty's Witch---

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by Anonymousreply 68November 29, 2021 4:25 AM

[quote]She was very hurt by Laurents. I believe he told her she was the worst Rose he'd ever seen.

What I heard is that after Laurents saw Buckley's performance and she asked him what he thought, he told her. "You were execrable."

by Anonymousreply 69November 29, 2021 5:23 AM

R69 You really have to be a sociopath to say that to someone who worked for months on a thing. He certainly could've found a better way to let he know he didn't care for it.

I realize Betty was difficult at times, but I do feel badly for her. She was at the 1992 Sondheim concert (I was there!) but not invited to the 80th Birthday Celebration. She was one of the big Broadway actresses of the '80s, but no one seems to put her up there with Patti and Bernadette anymore.

But, the sad fact is she's simply lost her voice. She's no longer able to sing. And that must be tough for her. She does seem very nice on Twitter, and she goes out of her way to engage with fans, and always thank them for compliments.

by Anonymousreply 70November 29, 2021 6:17 AM

She did the national tour of Bette Midler's version of Hello Dolly. She must be able to still sing. Maybe not at her peak but her peak was pretty astounding and that kind of power goes away with age. (see Streisand, Barbra.)

by Anonymousreply 71November 29, 2021 6:22 AM

R71 Did you see it, R71? She can carry a tune, sure. But compared to what she used to be able to do, it's pretty sad to hear.

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by Anonymousreply 72November 29, 2021 7:35 AM

[quote]Wasn’t Betty a bit of a cougar for younger men, [R14]?

Yes, when I was twenty-one Betty slipped me her phone number at a restaurant when her date was in the men's room. Her date was also my age which is about fifteen years younger than Betty. I'm gay and wasn't amused so I never called. She's not gay.

Why is she calling the pre-Broadway tryout of "Into the Woods" a "workshop"? Was it a workshop? I thought it was the Broadway warm up run. Maybe I'm mistaken? Anyway, Betty was a huge pain in the ass, she got fired from many jobs.

by Anonymousreply 73November 29, 2021 7:35 AM

R73 I KNEW I admired her!

There are some young people in the YouTube comments section of the video I posted at R72. There are many comments from people who saw her in the role and LOVED her in it and want to know why she wasn't on Broadway. This makes me feel melancholy too, for some reason. She brought that show to many cities in this country, and if people had that reaction, who am I to be critical of her voice? She did something to move those people, it seems.

BTW, she tweeted all during the Hello Dolly tour. She never said it, but you could tell after a few months she was kinda over it, and looking forward to going home.

I think Scott Rudin just offered her the role for the tour straight away. No audition or anything.

by Anonymousreply 74November 29, 2021 7:44 AM

R72. I wonder where that wss filmed. I saw Dolly during that tour and Betty was sick. One could see her wiping her nose and stashing kleenex round the set, but we enjoyed her performance. Perhaps this was just a bad night?

It may be Betty's assistant handles her twitter messages. She does everything else. In fact they live together.

by Anonymousreply 75November 29, 2021 7:49 AM

R75 I don't think it's her assistant. Usually when it's an assistant, tweets are not as frequent, and more general and benign. Betty tweets constantly, all day about politics (no Trump fan, she) and responding to fans. She may dictate them or something, but I'd bet they come from her.

I once made the rookie error of referring to her Carrie character as Miss Desjardins (the character's name in the book.) Within two minutes, she corrected me. "Miss Collins" she wrote, with a little heart next to it.

by Anonymousreply 76November 29, 2021 7:56 AM

This is a great thread.

by Anonymousreply 77November 29, 2021 8:33 AM

Betty had an affair with Gil Gerard that broke up his marriage.

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by Anonymousreply 78November 29, 2021 9:06 AM

[quote]She can carry a tune, sure. But compared to what she used to be able to do, it's pretty sad to hear.

Even now she sounds better than Carol Channing, Ethel Merman, Betty Grable, Phyllis Diller and all the old work horses who played on Dolly Broadway in the original run.

by Anonymousreply 79November 29, 2021 9:21 AM

[quote]Betty had an affair with Gil Gerard that broke up his marriage.

Any man who wears gold lamé pants should expect his marriage to break up.

by Anonymousreply 80November 29, 2021 10:19 AM

I am woefully unfamiliar with her stage career. But I LOVE her in the Woody Allen movie 'Another Woman.' In a way it's the perfect role for her... shall we say 'abrasive' persona. She only has one scene in the entire movie (where she basically gatecrashes a party to scream about her cancer before being kicked out lol), but she is completely riveting and in about 2 minutes of total screentime almost steals the whole thing (not easy in a movie that features Gena Rowlands, Mia Farrow, Gene Hackman, Sandy Dennis, Frances Conroy, Blythe Danner, Ian Holm, Martha Plimpton, etc). I wouldn't have minded if she got an Oscar nom a la Beatrice Straight in 'Network' but it's a shorter 'one-scene-wonder' and I don't think the film was a big commercial success.

by Anonymousreply 81November 29, 2021 10:23 AM

She was great in Tender Mercies, as I recall.

by Anonymousreply 82November 29, 2021 10:25 AM

R79 I don't know about the others, but I've heard Merman do it and she was fantastic. Again, La Buckley can carry a tune, but her voice is greatly diminished from what it used to be. She was arguably the best belter on Broadway for a time. I'm not tryna rag on her. I just find it sad, and it must be a tough thing to deal with.

by Anonymousreply 83November 29, 2021 10:25 AM

This is the only Buckley "Gypsy" recording I've heard

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by Anonymousreply 84November 29, 2021 10:43 AM

R42, I recall reading somewhere years ago that she was the great love of Grayson McCouch’s life, but dumped him, which broke his heart.

by Anonymousreply 85November 29, 2021 11:32 AM

We'd catch her around the sets of Eight is Enough singing showtunes.

Adam Rich kicked her in the cuntbone. Dick Van Patten spit in her coffee.

by Anonymousreply 86November 29, 2021 12:35 PM

Then again, Dick Van Patten spit in everyone's coffee.

Hardly makes me unique.

by Anonymousreply 87November 29, 2021 12:47 PM

Was she in The Mystery of Drood, I feel like I saw her in that? I saw a production of 1776 in Philadelphia the summer on 1976 at a special pavilion near the Liberty Bell, and I remember Williams Daniels being in it and someone prominent playing Franklin, maybe a Lahr, but I don’t know if she was in it.

by Anonymousreply 88November 29, 2021 1:31 PM

R27 that Tales of the City musical was dead on arrival. I saw that bit of shit.

by Anonymousreply 89November 29, 2021 1:35 PM

"Almost: A Life," as told by Betty Buckley

by Anonymousreply 90November 29, 2021 1:37 PM

Don't give her any ideas, r90

Actually, given her Twitter activity, I'd bet dollars to donuts she has "Google Alerted" herself ... she's probably reading this thread.

by Anonymousreply 91November 29, 2021 2:10 PM

She stole Another Woman with a mere 5 minutes of screen time. The rawness in her performance was uncomfortable and heartbreaking. That Papermill Gypsy was awful. Not just Betty but the entire production. Laurents was a cunt but he was right not to give the ok to move it. Her Performance as Norma was fragile and her vocals were haunting. Humorless, yes but she gave a beautiful performance every time I saw her.

by Anonymousreply 92November 29, 2021 2:21 PM

It's interesting how folks here seem to rag on Betty for the missed opportunities. All actors have them. And the reality is she really was THE voice of Broadway.

I would pay very good money right now to be able to hear her sing live as she once could. I'd sit through any show or concert...but that can't happen. Nobody tore into songs like her. She might have been difficult but name me someone else who could sing that Tony Awards performance of Memory like that...I'll wait. It was shattering. Same with Eve Was Weak. No one did it better. Same with her Norma.

So she couldn't do comedy as well....so what?

If she fought for better pay, good for her. She's something special. Actors ALWAYS have to advocate for themselves. Most overlook their own worth or end up getting very little. She was a knockout performer and should have asked for big bucks and credit.

Heck, I recently saw an interview where she explained how after singing Memory 3 or 4 different ways for Trevor N, she concluded the audition by just telling him, "look, I know you've auditioned eveyone for this, and I know my peer group...no one is going to do this better than me...and this is MY TIME." And he was stunned by her saying that, and the house manager patted her on the back afterwards for pitching herself so directly.

...and she was right! Memory was huge because of her. It's a great song but she made it spine-tingling. But of course...you say shit like that to a major director and you probably get a reputation immediately.

They all want knockout actresses who are meek and won't challenge them. You speak up, they talk shit about you.

Of course, I do suspect she's a little wonky. The huge talent, the beauty pageant looks, the therapy, the weird new age arrangements of her songs in cabaret (seriously, Sondheim was right!), her way of speaking...her preference for being with animals...there's stuff going on there.

I mean, her best roles were playing heartbreaking disillusioned diva nightmares - Norma, Griz, Margaret - so yeah. I think her ability to connect with them like that is telling.

On the other hand, she seemed to respect her costars. Lindsay Hately loved the way she stepped up to care for her and guide her through the Carrie experience. I seem to recall something about the cast of Drood being taken out for lunch by her back in the day.

She's probably an artsy type who tries to conpensate for any dramatic/intense attitude by being loving in other ways.

Mostly I think y'all are just bitter she didn't get more shows like Bernie and Patti did. And I agree. But even if her singing days are gone, damn.....she left a legacy as one of the best.

And bedding McCouch? Seriously? 🙏

by Anonymousreply 93November 29, 2021 2:22 PM

Hi Betty r93!

by Anonymousreply 94November 29, 2021 2:24 PM

LOL, I wish!

(Grayson is fiiiiiine as hellllll, christ almighty)

by Anonymousreply 95November 29, 2021 2:26 PM

I watch this with mixed reaction. The singing is great. The audience response makes me wish I'd heard it live. Subtly breaking the fourth wall at the end with the kiss and the smile feels a little self-indulgent and yet works at the same time.

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by Anonymousreply 96November 29, 2021 2:56 PM

Thanks r96!

by Anonymousreply 97November 29, 2021 2:58 PM

There's several BB's on Youtube from Sunset. She's so awesome. I love her take on Norma's mad speech because it's very soft, very muted... total contrast to how anybody else does it... So often you get the "And now, Mr. DeMille" big and bold it gets a laugh. Buckley's doesn't. Norma is quite pathetic in that moment, but you don't scorn her. The line starts around the 7:50

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by Anonymousreply 98November 29, 2021 3:11 PM

[quote]She was one of the big Broadway actresses of the '80s

And yet, r70, she only originated one actual lead role on Broadway in the '80s.

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by Anonymousreply 99November 29, 2021 3:17 PM

She can certainly sing. She's touring again. She just won't sing as in her prime.

by Anonymousreply 100November 29, 2021 3:19 PM

I agree. Terrible singer.

by Anonymousreply 101November 29, 2021 3:19 PM

I actually detest the vibrato in her voice. She gurgles her way through songs

by Anonymousreply 102November 29, 2021 3:27 PM


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by Anonymousreply 103November 29, 2021 3:36 PM

R103, she's big and she's brassy!!

by Anonymousreply 104November 29, 2021 3:41 PM

[quote]She can certainly sing. She's touring again. She just won't sing as in her prime.

Some of my favorite performances of hers are non-Broadway songs. I love her renditions of Mary Chapin Carpenter's "I Am a Town" and Lisa Loeb's "Falling in Love," for example -- neither of which require any belting. She'll do fine touring.

by Anonymousreply 105November 29, 2021 3:47 PM

This is my favorite Buckley tune

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by Anonymousreply 106November 29, 2021 3:51 PM

[quote] I don't know about the others, but I've heard Merman do it and she was fantastic.

Merman was a one note trumpet.

by Anonymousreply 107November 29, 2021 4:00 PM

Merman was brassy, Betty is steely.

by Anonymousreply 108November 29, 2021 4:02 PM

Betty is steel.

by Anonymousreply 109November 29, 2021 4:13 PM

I had a real MARY moment during a performance of Sunset when at the end of With One Look she didn’t sing ‘I’ll be Maaaahhhh’ as she had been doing but instead ended it with ‘I’ll be MEEEEEEEE.’ The audience went nuts.

by Anonymousreply 110November 29, 2021 4:24 PM

[quote]Merman was a one note trumpet.

Tuba, surely.

by Anonymousreply 111November 29, 2021 4:26 PM

Her voice's steeliness is tempered by a certain melancholy. I'd argue that her Memory works the best because of it and I think she was the most human Norma. It probably didn't help her Rose, particularly if she was playing the book scenes in downer mode.

by Anonymousreply 112November 29, 2021 4:26 PM

Buckley was the performance Glenn could never deliver.

by Anonymousreply 113November 29, 2021 4:26 PM

Speaking of Glenn, is the Sunset Boulevard movie really happening?

by Anonymousreply 114November 29, 2021 4:27 PM

I think it's playing out in real time.

by Anonymousreply 115November 29, 2021 4:56 PM

Gabbing with Ernie...

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by Anonymousreply 116November 29, 2021 5:02 PM

Yes, the move out of NYC seems to have mellowed her.

Another project that was supposed to be BLB, but sadly *sniff* it wasn't: Best Little Whorehouse Goes Public. They called Dee Hoty to quickly fill in on the workshop? reading? and then decided to keep her. Hoty herself has told the tale publicly.

by Anonymousreply 117November 29, 2021 5:06 PM

Ummm, r117....BLB dodged a bullet with that one. Who needs another flop on their resume?

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by Anonymousreply 118November 29, 2021 5:14 PM

I imagine Betty has to pay for it these days.

by Anonymousreply 119November 29, 2021 5:53 PM

Saw the original cast of "Whorehouse" many times when going to Saturday a matinee was affordable. Had zero interest in seeing the sequel, you could smell the flopsweat on 46th Street

by Anonymousreply 120November 29, 2021 9:11 PM

Well if any role is a one note trumpet it's Rose in Gypsy.

by Anonymousreply 121November 29, 2021 9:25 PM

It was between Betty and Ann Reinking for the part of Joan in "Goodtime Charley." The authors wanted Betty, especially because of how she sang the songs. But Reinking had one of the backers in her corner. After several months, they asked Betty and Ann back for one last callback. Betty went, even though it was clear to her that Reinking was going to get it. She sang "One Little Year" and "To Make the Boy A Man." Grossman and Hackady were effusive with her in their praise for how she delivered their songs. Betty turned to them as she was leaving and said "I hope you enjoyed it, because that's the last time you're going to hear those songs sung like that"

And of course, she was right. Reinking surprised everyone with her excellent acting as Joan, and her singing could get by, but the songs had been written for a real singer, and she couldn't match that.

by Anonymousreply 122November 29, 2021 9:39 PM

Somewhere on YouTube there's a tape of one of the New Haven tryout performances of 1776. Betty sings a very different version of "He Plays the Violin" - completely different orchestration, and the song is almost totally different. There's also the only little bit that exists of "Increase and Multiply," which was the whorehouse number that was cut on the road (along with the whores). Plus Betty singing "Compliments," which she sang in the show but didn't make it onto the OBC (though it is on the film soundtrack).

by Anonymousreply 123November 29, 2021 9:43 PM

They do sound like Betty songs, r122.

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by Anonymousreply 124November 29, 2021 9:57 PM

There's another version of what Sondheim told her when she cornered him and demanded to know what he thought of her CDs. (See r38.) Allegedly he gave her a critique of what he didn't like and finished by telling her never to sing his music again.

by Anonymousreply 125November 30, 2021 12:01 AM

I doubt that, but he was right about the arrangements.

by Anonymousreply 126November 30, 2021 1:36 AM

I'm sorry I started this thread. I didn't want it to turn into Betty bashing. I hope she isn't reading this. Many people love your music Betty Lynn. And she's a great actress too.

She did make Memory into a classic. Nobody before or since has brought such dimension and acting skill to the role.

Love you Betty!!!!

by Anonymousreply 127November 30, 2021 1:54 AM

Betty, pay us no mind. To quote Sharon Tate from Valley of the Dolls, "you know how bitchy fags can be."

by Anonymousreply 128November 30, 2021 2:02 AM

Betty, why you so mean, gurl?

by Anonymousreply 129November 30, 2021 2:09 AM

Well, r127, say what you will about her career course, but it's still one to be envied. She's firmly in the Broadway history books.

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by Anonymousreply 130November 30, 2021 2:09 AM

Her last time originating a role in a Broadway musical was 1998 have Bernadette or Patti created many roles since then?

by Anonymousreply 131November 30, 2021 2:15 AM

She was pretty brave to go into Carrie after it bombed in Stratford.

Seth Rudetsky had the cast on his youtube show and they all seemed to like her. Linzi has always been complimentary but Charlotte d'Amboise tells Betty that her Margaret was the greatest performance she ever saw in a musical.

She went in as a favor to the authors who told her the show would never get to NY without her. (She was friends with Gore from Pippin and the book writer from the Carrie film.)

To go so full out in a show that you know is in serious trouble really shows her commitment to her work. (and she seems to have been the reason the show lived on in infamy. Seeing it revised and reworked there is nothing special about it and the casts made little impact.) Buckley's clips are awesome.

by Anonymousreply 132November 30, 2021 2:20 AM

She had a very "mean" military father who didn't want her in showbiz (or her brother.) Her childhood sounds like The Great Santini.

She has spoken about how she had kind of a haughty attitude when she was younger. With the help of a voice teacher and therapist she learned that her attitude was I'll get you before you get me. I think her clashes with powerful man stemmed from her father. (she says that too. Her Grizabella walk and stoop in her posture came out of imagining how much her father disapproved of her being an actress. She pictured carrying around his anger in a bag on her shoulders.

Even some of her other clashes seemed to come when she felt people weren't appreciating her hard work. On that making of Carrie podcast her understudy in Carrie talks about how she'd sit in on Buckley's rehearsals with the director and staff. The woman would knit and fiddle with her yarn and stuff. Betty had enough and said you can stay if you are going to watch my rehearsals to come up with your own performance but if you are going to just be a distraction you have to leave.

The woman felt stung by being scolded but said she grew to see Betty's point and they reconnected when facebook started and are now friends.

by Anonymousreply 133November 30, 2021 2:28 AM

LOVED her in Tender Mercies. A great film, too.

by Anonymousreply 134November 30, 2021 2:32 AM

She was perfection in Drood.

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by Anonymousreply 135November 30, 2021 2:32 AM

Tender Mercies

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by Anonymousreply 136November 30, 2021 2:37 AM

R132, it was not Michael Gore she knew from PIPPIN, it was Dean Pitchford.

by Anonymousreply 137November 30, 2021 2:52 AM

oops sorry r137. That's right.

Betty did Pippin for three years. Long time. Who were her Pippins? Rubinstein, Pitchford, others?

by Anonymousreply 138November 30, 2021 4:24 AM

R131 La LuPone did War Paint, and Women on the Verge. And a couple of Mamet plays.

by Anonymousreply 139November 30, 2021 5:37 AM

R138 Michael Rupert was opposite Betty in "Pippin" for quite some time.

by Anonymousreply 140November 30, 2021 5:37 AM

[quote]She had a very "mean" military father

This explains a lot

by Anonymousreply 141November 30, 2021 8:52 AM

[quote]I doubt that, but he was right about the arrangements.

Maybe he thought they were too "Pop". He had only one true song that was a pop hit and that was Judy Collins "Send In The Clowns". Even the songs he wrote for Madonna in "Dick Tracy" weren't pop hits even though one won an Oscar and were featured on Madonna's hit soundtrack album.. "Vogue" took all the glory.

by Anonymousreply 142November 30, 2021 10:09 AM

Audrey Lavine...Betty's Carrie standby

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by Anonymousreply 143November 30, 2021 3:05 PM

Betty would have been great in Goodtime Charley but Ann was so otherworldly and never sounded better. I think it’s the best performance she’s ever given.

by Anonymousreply 144November 30, 2021 3:20 PM

Did she dance, r144?

by Anonymousreply 145November 30, 2021 3:24 PM

If Patti's our Merman and Bernadette's our Martin, is Betty our Gray? They both got shows early in their careers that garnered a Tony and a signature song.

by Anonymousreply 146November 30, 2021 3:36 PM

It wounds that Susan Dey hadn’t issued a statement yet.

by Anonymousreply 147November 30, 2021 3:44 PM

R145. Minimal dancing from both leads. I think they added Born Lover for Grey after the tryout because critics complained about the lack of dancing.

by Anonymousreply 148November 30, 2021 3:51 PM

[Quote] If Patti's our Merman and Bernadette's our Martin, is Betty our Gray? They both got shows early in their careers that garnered a Tony and a signature song.

Well, Dolores was a protege of Mary Martin's. Martin hooked Gray up with Rodgers & Hammerstein for "Green Grow the Lilacs" but she has the wrong voice type for Laurey.

by Anonymousreply 149November 30, 2021 4:34 PM

[quote]Martin hooked Gray up with Rodgers & Hammerstein

Pics please.

by Anonymousreply 150November 30, 2021 4:34 PM

Kind of amazing she passed on so many career defining roles but said yes to that awful play at Dodger Stages a few years ago with Peter Scolari.

by Anonymousreply 151November 30, 2021 5:12 PM

In her prime, she had a voice like no one else. As others have said, there was a steeliness and a melancholy to it that really made her stand out.

Yes, she's godawful at comedy and comes across as very cold on stage at times. This is why her Rose was such a misfire. With the way that character is written, you really need an actress who can access some natural charm and comic chops to soften her up occasionally and remind the audiences that she's not just a one-note steamroller. Betty decided to play her as almost depressed and suicidal. It wasn't moving, scary, or disturbing. Just sort of sad and low energy. It worked for Norma Desmond, but not for Rose.

Sondheim was right to critique her jazzy versions of his songs. She and her arranger got them so far from the original songs that they might as well have named them something else on the album.

I usually think she comes across better on film than on stage. She has more warmth on film. Her scene in Another Woman is pretty spectacular and she's really lovely in Carrie.

by Anonymousreply 152November 30, 2021 5:16 PM

I can't imagine that if Sondheim desperately wanted Buckley's Gypsy to transfer that he couldn't have made it happen. I suspect he just let Laurents be the asshole.

by Anonymousreply 153November 30, 2021 5:18 PM

Another Woman

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by Anonymousreply 154November 30, 2021 5:21 PM

Is this a good example of her Sondheim interpretations?

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by Anonymousreply 155November 30, 2021 5:23 PM

Betty Buckley on CBS Sunday Morning Interview

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by Anonymousreply 156November 30, 2021 5:26 PM

Or this:

(Not many of her studio recordings are available on YouTube)

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by Anonymousreply 157November 30, 2021 5:27 PM

She was excellent as Grizabella and Norma but her Sondheim recordings are bit weird. Met her few times, she was very lovely.

by Anonymousreply 158November 30, 2021 5:46 PM

[quote]I suspect he just let Laurents be the asshole.

Probably because it came so naturally to Laurents.

by Anonymousreply 159November 30, 2021 5:56 PM

[quote]This is why her Rose was such a misfire.

Stop putting all the blame on her. It was a first class Equity production and there was a director. In the real world actors don't just wing it on stage. A director guides the performance and obviously her choices were approved. There is no telling how good she could have been with a different director.

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by Anonymousreply 160November 30, 2021 6:08 PM

Beauty pageant looks?

by Anonymousreply 161November 30, 2021 6:09 PM

Betty also played Rose in Austin, Texas (1992). She gave the same subdued/depressed performance.

by Anonymousreply 162November 30, 2021 6:10 PM

Like we needed yet another Gypsy revival on Bway

by Anonymousreply 163November 30, 2021 6:30 PM

Was that the same as the Arizona production, r162?

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by Anonymousreply 164November 30, 2021 6:35 PM

My mistake, r164. Arizona, not Austin. There's a full length video bootleg out there.

by Anonymousreply 165November 30, 2021 6:37 PM

One of the big reasons Ann didn’t dance in Goodtime Charley was because of her accident on her final night in Over Here. The whole Goodtime Charley production was delayed by two or three months to allow her time to heal.

“Born Lover” replaced “All She Can Do Is Say No,” toward the end of the Philadelphia part of the tryout.

by Anonymousreply 166November 30, 2021 6:44 PM

[quote] The woman felt stung by being scolded but said she grew to see Betty's point

Betty’s point was the only point. That woman was hired to be the understudy and was at the rehearsal to learn the part, not to do her crocheting.

by Anonymousreply 167November 30, 2021 6:46 PM

Did Janet ever go on?

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by Anonymousreply 168November 30, 2021 6:55 PM

I always thought she had big lesbian energy.

Didn't she have a female partner at one point? Maybe I'm misremembering.

by Anonymousreply 169November 30, 2021 6:57 PM

It is a shame she never did Gypsy on Bway. She certainly had the pipes and acting ability. She needed a good director and production

by Anonymousreply 170November 30, 2021 7:03 PM

It is obvious that the director of Gypsy was bad or didn't have the strength to work with her. Was he or she scared of her?

The arrangements of the Sondheim songs are fighting her every step of the way. What was she thinking?

by Anonymousreply 171November 30, 2021 7:09 PM

Rose got what she wanted through wily charm. Any darkness to the role shouldn't begin until Roses.

by Anonymousreply 172November 30, 2021 7:12 PM

R172, and despite being a DL punching bag, Patti Lupone's Mama Rose unfolded exactly that way

by Anonymousreply 173November 30, 2021 7:41 PM

I always remember that line from Forbidden Broadway, about LuPone's Rose: like a bulldozer picking up speed. That's how I imagined Merman's Rose. LuPone's was more... wily, in addition to the brashness.

by Anonymousreply 174November 30, 2021 7:44 PM

Iirc, she was coked up here:

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by Anonymousreply 175November 30, 2021 9:22 PM


Oh my God, I can't even listen to that. I just want to slam on the keys. What indulgent, nonsensical accompaniment....dude PLAY THE FUCKING SONG.

It's like he's trying to make her forget the melody...

by Anonymousreply 176November 30, 2021 10:28 PM

r176 = the ghost of Sondheim

by Anonymousreply 177November 30, 2021 10:29 PM

R177 now that is a compliment I can humbly accept with gratitude!

by Anonymousreply 178November 30, 2021 10:30 PM

She's a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 179November 30, 2021 10:43 PM

Really? What about "Don't laugh! Don't you dare laugh!"

by Anonymousreply 180November 30, 2021 10:48 PM

[Quote] Rose got what she wanted through wily charm. Any darkness to the role shouldn't begin until Roses.

Really? What about "Don't laugh! Don't you dare laugh!"

by Anonymousreply 181November 30, 2021 10:50 PM

Gin and regrets.

by Anonymousreply 182November 30, 2021 11:29 PM

I've always wondered that too r168.

She did miss a lot of performances in her Cats run. As a kid I we had a relative who lived right near the theater that we'd see every week practically. I was fascinated by the understudies and who was in and out of shows so I'd always quickly run over and poke my head in the door to see who was out. Buckley was out a bunch of times that I know of (I was so happy she was in when I saw it.)

Hubert got the lead in the touring company of Sophisticated Ladies and was one of the first to leave the show (Apr. 1983 according to ibdb.) I didn't start my checking until the fall of 1983 and by that time Diane Fratantoni was the understudy. I think she had been added as a second understudy while Hubert was still there. I'd guess Betty missed some performances from the opening thru that April but I don't know when Fratantoni became the go to understudy.

I tried to ask Hubert on twitter and she didn't answer. I did read an interview with a lot of people who were in the show at various times including Hubert and she never mentions being the understudy so maybe they took that away from her. Fratantoni had a strong voice. Hubert sounds a bit thin on her moment singing a bit of Memory on the OBC. Now I'm thinking she may never have gone on since she had no story to tell in the interview. (she loved being in the show btw no drama from her.) Her early departure always made me think there was some controversy but recently I noticed that she got a lead role and took that.

They did seem to change up the solos a bit post opening and the recording. The White Cat (Cynthia Onrubia) sang the other part of Memory with Buckley originally but then they switched it to Whitney Kershaw as Sillabub who sang it on the Tonys and sounds stronger than Onrubia. I think they kept it that way from then on so that the white cat they could just cast with the best dancer they could find and not have to worry if she could sing strong enough to pair up with Buckley.

Onrubia was known to be pretty fantastic as a dancer. In that Seth R. show Charlotte d'Amoise describes her final call back. She said when Onrubia walked into the room she knew she was done. (they did hire her for the first touring company but not as one of the kittens she'd been up for in the original production. I think she says that of her group at that callback all of them were hired but her. She was a bit tall for a kitten. On tour they put her in as Cassandra the Siamese cat even though she was very young. She then quickly moved to Broadway when Rene Ceballos left early. She was a bit unhappy in the show I read.

Funny how all the kittens swoon over Terence Mann but Charlotte got him in real life.

by Anonymousreply 183December 1, 2021 3:29 AM

There's a podcast on YouTube with Kim Criswell where she talks about Buckley almost being replaced at the end of the original contract. Criswell also talks about Georgia Brown, whom she initially loved but found herself Brown's whipping boy.

by Anonymousreply 184December 1, 2021 3:44 AM

Buckley had a rough 1982. She was in the finals for both big shows of the fall (Cats and A Doll's Life.)

She was being called back to both a lot.

A Doll's Life loved her singing and performance (Paul Gemignanini later said Betty's final audition was the best audition he had ever seen an actor give) but they felt she just didn't look the part.

I think that is what prompted her speech to Trevor Nunn where she said the stuff about you may find someone who can do it as well but nobody can do it better and the others have all had their turn and she hadn't. (to open a big show.)

She prefaced that with I'll do whatever you want, if you want me thinner I'll lose weight if you want me fatter I'll gain weight. She laughs at her audacity now and says her agent was appalled and said will you ever learn to keep your mouth shut!

But I think losing A Doll's Life because of having the wrong look made her determined that she'd do whatever it took to get Cats.

(I'm always curious who the other women who had had their "turn" were that she always refers to. Laurie Beachman probably since she got the first road company. LuPone? Kind of doubt she'd want it. She'd be following Paige again but who knows. Trying to think of other hit shows around the late 70s/eighties. Priscilla Lopez? Christine Andreas? Judy Kaye?)

by Anonymousreply 185December 1, 2021 3:47 AM

[Quote] they felt she just didn't look the part.

I expect she heard this a lot. It must have grated to play the gym teacher while some of her peers were playing teens in CARRIE.

by Anonymousreply 186December 1, 2021 3:49 AM

Was Ellen Foley seen for shows like "Evita" and "CATS"?

by Anonymousreply 187December 1, 2021 3:50 AM

I've heard that podcast r184. I sort of don't believe Criswell. It just seems odd that they'd want to fire their Tony winner who also had a tv fan base and was part of the event of seeing the show to such a large extent. Maybe she was really missing many shows? Who knows. Criswell seems to like to tell stories but who knows maybe it really happened. Her explanation that she was too young for the part sounds suspect too since they hired her for LA like 2 years later or so.

In that book Stephan Hanan released of his diaries from the time he specifies that Buckley was always very nice to him. (It does sort of imply that she wasn't nice to some other people though.)

by Anonymousreply 188December 1, 2021 3:51 AM

Hasn't it been claimed that Buckley wanted to be allowed to arrive later to the theater for "Sunset Boulevard" because she could put on her make up at home?

by Anonymousreply 189December 1, 2021 3:53 AM

Has the Eight Is Enough fanbase ever made any Betty Buckley show a hit? I don't think Buckley ever became a front rank star, true box office - another similarity to Dolores Gray or... Patti LuPone. Her screen success no doubt helped for publicity and promotional opportunities but with ALW shows... The Show is The Star.

by Anonymousreply 190December 1, 2021 3:56 AM

[quote]but with ALW shows... The Show is The Star.

Except Sunset Boulevard. That was the problem Glenn became the star. Without her they had trouble selling tickets. I firmly believe the allegations that Miss Dunaway's production was not shut down because of her singing but because the advance sales dropped so much when Close's last performance was announced.

Buckley has discussed how the New York Times did a profile of her right before she opened that although the guy was nice (her words) he concentrated the article so much on whether she'd be able to keep the box office up to Close's level which caused her lots of stress.

by Anonymousreply 191December 1, 2021 4:29 AM

Some say the set was the star.

by Anonymousreply 192December 1, 2021 4:32 AM

the set just rose up after Cats, Starlight, Phantom wasn't that kind of simple?

Close was a dynamo in the role. Buckley is better to listen to sing the songs but Close acted the hell out of it. (Patti seemed strangely confused like she was always looking for her mark and wondering what show she was in. The Actor's Nightmare.

by Anonymousreply 193December 1, 2021 4:45 AM

Elaine was the best.

by Anonymousreply 194December 1, 2021 4:47 AM

If Miss Dunaway was so awful but the show was stable why not hire someone else? They must have seen a lot of women and had a second choice. Call her.

ALW lied.

by Anonymousreply 195December 1, 2021 4:50 AM

The fact that Dunaway was cast in the first place shows that they had few options. Plenty of women could sing it but how many of them were box offfice? Very few, I'd suggest, which is why Dunaway was able to initially get the gig despite her lack of vocal chops.

by Anonymousreply 196December 1, 2021 5:08 AM

[quote]But I think losing A Doll's Life because of having the wrong look made her determined that she'd do whatever it took to get Cats.

It wasn't as though she lost something valuable. Who wants to be known as the star of a huge flop?

by Anonymousreply 197December 1, 2021 5:20 AM

I think they thought Dunaway could act/sing the songs which is what Close sort of did and she was still a big star then. I think they thought they could parade women thru it like Hello Dolly but Close was all the people could talk about. (let's face it the rest of the show without her is meh.)

ALW was supposed to be the box office draw.

by Anonymousreply 198December 1, 2021 5:21 AM

I know r197 but at the time when she didn't get it after so many auditions and being told it was just her looks that were wrong it must have stung and made her more determined to get Cats.

Yeah it did work out better for her. Betsy who?

by Anonymousreply 199December 1, 2021 5:22 AM

The show is meh without that giant set and those two songs.

by Anonymousreply 200December 1, 2021 5:23 AM

Betsy did get to play The Witch on Broadway...

by Anonymousreply 201December 1, 2021 5:24 AM

I love her

by Anonymousreply 202December 1, 2021 5:43 AM


I kinda agree....but there are five great songs- Surrender, New Ways To Dream, The Perfect Year are also good.

It's all the chorus crap that falls flat. The Lady's Paying is annoying as shit.

Buckley nails the final scene. Close was a cartoon and self indulgent, waving her damn hands and almost licking the banister. Stupid.

Did anyone sub for Buckley in even one preview or performance of Carrie?

by Anonymousreply 203December 1, 2021 6:16 AM

[quote]she was coked up here:

Oh fuck you. That means she was doing this, which was minutes before she won.

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by Anonymousreply 204December 1, 2021 8:41 AM

r204 I think Buckley herself has said she had a coke problem

by Anonymousreply 205December 1, 2021 9:34 AM

Yeah and where does she say she was "coked up" on the greatest night of her career?

by Anonymousreply 206December 1, 2021 10:25 AM

I can't remember the source, r206, but in one interview she talks about being a mess that night. She also calls her date a "loser" and says she dumped him shortly thereafter.

by Anonymousreply 207December 1, 2021 10:27 AM

Was he her dealer?

by Anonymousreply 208December 1, 2021 11:07 AM

Possibly, r208? That may have been the implication

by Anonymousreply 209December 1, 2021 11:20 AM

Now I'm curious about her date that night, but I can't find any photos of her from the awards show that aren't either performing or alone and with her award.

by Anonymousreply 210December 1, 2021 11:25 AM

R210: I assume that's him sitting with her at r175

by Anonymousreply 211December 1, 2021 11:27 AM

Oh, you're right, I feel silly, I should have checked videos instead of photos. Thanks r211.

by Anonymousreply 212December 1, 2021 11:32 AM

I'm sure she can be hell on wheels but I'll always adore her for posting pics of her watching the Nov 2020 election returns, rooting for Biden while snuggled up with several kittens.

by Anonymousreply 213December 1, 2021 11:48 AM

Betty replaces Patti at The Oliviers.

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by Anonymousreply 214December 1, 2021 12:02 PM

R202 “But only on your own.”

by Anonymousreply 215December 1, 2021 1:28 PM

Don't forget Patti didn't want to originate and play a supporting role on Broadway even in an instant classic. It was OK to slum it London.

by Anonymousreply 216December 1, 2021 4:50 PM

I don't blame her, r216.

by Anonymousreply 217December 1, 2021 4:54 PM

Watching Buckley's incredible Memory, just magnifies how awful Leona Lewis was in the recent CATS revival on Bway.

Leona Lewis just at Memory and a few lines of another song, and she ruined the entire show. She had no character at all. She just moved around the stage and sang Memory like a pop star.

by Anonymousreply 218December 1, 2021 5:11 PM

Betty's Memory is definitive. I despise that awful show, but Betty brought it to life in her one big scene. Not even Streisand sang it as well.

From video and audio bootlegs, I'd say she's easily the best Margaret White since Piper Laurie as well. Not only is it sung thrillingly, but her performance is bone chilling. Her Norma was excellent as well.

Her colder acting style doesn't translate well to musical comedy broads like Rose or Dolly, but when she's well cast, she's thrilling.

by Anonymousreply 219December 1, 2021 5:41 PM

I used to have this CD. I wish I could find it again:

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by Anonymousreply 220December 1, 2021 5:45 PM

Betty showed up past half hour many times during Cats. One night the stage manager sent her home and let Janet who was already in costume go on. It was a humbling experience for Betty and she cleaned up her act after that.

by Anonymousreply 221December 1, 2021 8:03 PM

I think Patti has said she hates Cats. She sang Memory on tour of ALW’s music when they needed a star while Crawford was off. I wish we had Judi Dench’s version. She was the original Grizabella before her injury.

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by Anonymousreply 222December 1, 2021 8:54 PM

^ God, she's holding it in her nose. Granted, a big nose but still, sing out, Fantine!

by Anonymousreply 223December 1, 2021 8:57 PM

When Dench was involved with Cats, Memory hadn't yet been written. It was a late addition to the score.

by Anonymousreply 224December 1, 2021 10:13 PM

Well, here's National Treasure Judi Dench's Send in the Clowns.

Let's just say she's a role model for the dogged Glenn Close.

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by Anonymousreply 225December 1, 2021 10:18 PM

"Memory" was put in for Elaine Paige. Paige recalls hearing it on the radio as an instrumental so perhaps that's how it would have been used if Dench hadn't departed.

by Anonymousreply 226December 1, 2021 10:37 PM

[quote]Hubert sounds a bit thin on her moment singing a bit of Memory on the OBC. Now I'm thinking she may never have gone on since she had no story to tell in the interview. (she loved being in the show btw no drama from her.)

Really? I don't know..

by Anonymousreply 227December 2, 2021 2:10 PM

I think Paige far outshines Buckley. She doesn't have the steeliness but she has the power which makes it much more poignant.

by Anonymousreply 228December 2, 2021 6:32 PM

They didn't have to lower the banister for Betty, r228.

by Anonymousreply 229December 2, 2021 6:39 PM

I don't get why someone thinks this thread is trashing La Buckley. I see about 95% positive and insightful commentary about her performances, the culture she performed in, her competitors, and the Broadway scene in general. A fascinating read.

Some stans are weirdly defensive about their divas. I can tell you, Steely Betty isn't offended or shook by any of this. She loves the attention and adoration, and is very likely reading this thread.

Hi Betty!

by Anonymousreply 230December 2, 2021 6:45 PM

I missed Elaine, r228, but I don't think she would have far outshone Betty. But her plaintive sound definitely adds more vulnerability.

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by Anonymousreply 231December 2, 2021 6:48 PM

I always felt like Elaine Paige is singing live from inside a tin can.

by Anonymousreply 232December 2, 2021 6:49 PM

She could definitely fit in one, r232.

by Anonymousreply 233December 2, 2021 6:52 PM

Betty and Patti got into a war of words over the song Meadowlark. As Patti's biggest fan (I'm traveling to NYC specifically to see her in what might be her final Broadway role in a few weeks) I have to admit this was NOT one of her finest hours.

Betty would sing Meadowlark in concert. She would claim that Stephen Schwartz wrote it for her. Patti got on her blog in a since deleted post (you can still see where the post was, she replaced it with a message saying she didn't want to be negative) said, according to one person "A broken down diva is claiming that Meadowlark was written for her. Not true. It was written for Carole Demas, who I replaced in Baker's Wife, and become my signature song."

Betty contacted Patti and told her that Schwartz had said Schwartz told her specifically years ago he wrote it for her. They agreed to contact him to find out. Very very smartly, he claimed he couldn't remember. But at some point, Patti said to Betty "How would you like it if I came out and sang Memory every show?"

After consulting with Schwartz, they both agreed to stop singing the song in concert. But both of them kept singing it!

by Anonymousreply 234December 2, 2021 6:58 PM


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by Anonymousreply 235December 2, 2021 7:14 PM

She’s driving the piano player nuts there.

by Anonymousreply 236December 2, 2021 7:21 PM

Carole's understudy...

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by Anonymousreply 237December 2, 2021 7:25 PM
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by Anonymousreply 238December 2, 2021 7:27 PM

What a shit song.

by Anonymousreply 239December 2, 2021 7:33 PM

Its bookend song...

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by Anonymousreply 240December 2, 2021 7:42 PM

What does it say about me that all the people I enjoy the most have a large number of people who CAN'T STAND them? I first saw Patti LuPone at age 18 in Anything Goes. Knocked mevon.my gay ass. Greatest musical performance I'd ever seen. Bar none. I remember being shocked to find that so many people intensely disliked her. I'm not anymore, I fully expect it now.

by Anonymousreply 241December 2, 2021 8:24 PM

It's DL... if it doesn't involve porn or cruelty, there's bound to be upset.

by Anonymousreply 242December 2, 2021 9:07 PM

I’m not a huge Patti fan but she was perfection in Anything Goes and that entire production was pure joy.

by Anonymousreply 243December 2, 2021 9:36 PM

I olden days gobble, gobble gobble stocking

Was looked gobble, gobble, gobble shocking

But gobble, gobble

Gobble goes!

by Anonymousreply 244December 2, 2021 9:55 PM

Patti screeching Cole Porter was not meant to happen on this earth.

by Anonymousreply 245December 2, 2021 9:59 PM

You bitches are brutal!

by Anonymousreply 246December 2, 2021 10:03 PM

Schwartz did not write “Meadowlark” for BB though she might have been one of the first to hear it . . . or at least the beginnings of it. SS was busy composing “The Baker’s Wife” during BB’s long stint as a “Catherine” replacement in “Pippin”. She supposedly heard SS working on “Meadowlark” during the run of that show, loved it and for some strange reason thinks he wrote it for her. I know for a fact that SS “rolls his eyes” whenever BB tries to take ownership of the song.

by Anonymousreply 247December 2, 2021 10:06 PM

LuPone is so dishonest. The only reason she considers "Meadowlark" her signature song is because it's not written by Andrew Lloyd Webber.

by Anonymousreply 248December 2, 2021 10:30 PM

I mean, surely La LuPone must know that Don't Cry for Me Argentina is her signature song.

I got annoyed when an interviewer asked her about it. "The lyrics make no sense. Why would anyone cry over her?" Patti replied "I have no idea" and said it was nonsensical.

Cry, in the context of that song does not mean like sob. It means cry as in "cry out" which is what the crowd is doing just before the song starts. She's saying "You don't have to cry out for me. I'm here for you no matter what, my descamisados." Patti know that damn well.

by Anonymousreply 249December 2, 2021 10:40 PM

So I listened to half of Meadowlark. That's as far as I could get. I'll have to try again when I'm feeling more indulgent. It has to be better than it sounds considering how everyone wants to claim it as written for them. Though I doubt Mary or Ethel would want to claim it.

by Anonymousreply 250December 2, 2021 10:40 PM

Liz Callaway might be more your speed.

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by Anonymousreply 251December 2, 2021 10:46 PM


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by Anonymousreply 252December 2, 2021 10:48 PM

I'm good friends with Dolores Gray's niece. I have a small mink collar of her aunt's that she gifted me.

by Anonymousreply 253December 2, 2021 11:00 PM

Regardless of what you think of Meadowlark, that fact that Buckley wants the audience to accept her ownership of the song based on some backstage esoterica reeks of desperation, especially when Patti has an established history with the original production.

by Anonymousreply 254December 2, 2021 11:32 PM

R253. She has another in the box office.

by Anonymousreply 255December 2, 2021 11:34 PM

I don't enjoy Betty's arrangement of Meadowlark.

by Anonymousreply 256December 2, 2021 11:41 PM

It's a very lush song. Perhaps too lush.

by Anonymousreply 257December 2, 2021 11:46 PM


Let'sch not schtart inschulting thesch fine ladiesch!

by Anonymousreply 258December 3, 2021 12:05 AM

Did Streisand ever sing it? It can't be any good if Streisand never sang it.

by Anonymousreply 259December 3, 2021 12:39 AM

I can't hear her singing it.

by Anonymousreply 260December 3, 2021 12:46 AM

[quote]Regardless of what you think of Meadowlark, that fact that Buckley wants the audience to accept her ownership of the song based on some backstage esoterica reeks of desperation, especially when Patti has an established history with the original production.

Yeah, yeah, yeah Patti was a replacement and not anywhere near the writing of the song.

by Anonymousreply 261December 3, 2021 12:53 AM

I would have liked to hear Barbara Nichols' version.

by Anonymousreply 262December 3, 2021 12:59 AM

Has Shirley Bassey offered a Sondheim tribute yet?

by Anonymousreply 263December 3, 2021 1:01 AM

Meadowlark does not appeal

by Anonymousreply 264December 3, 2021 1:51 AM

It's a show-off number.

by Anonymousreply 265December 3, 2021 2:20 AM

I can finally reveal that MEADOWLARK was indeed written specifically for....


by Anonymousreply 266December 3, 2021 4:01 AM

How can one have diva airs after starring on…Eight Is Enough?

by Anonymousreply 267December 3, 2021 4:21 AM

R61? NOBODY could make Sunset Blvd. profitable. Not even Glenn Close. That was the problem.

by Anonymousreply 268December 3, 2021 4:24 AM

Did Glenn ever have a sold out week? Did Sunset ever have a profitable week? It was a very very expensive show that had mediocre reviews and little word of mouth.

by Anonymousreply 269December 3, 2021 4:53 AM

Are you sure about that r221? I heard the same story only it was Drood she was sent home from. I guess it could have happened with both shows.

(the audience suffered though. Lots of disappointed people who wanted to see her.)

by Anonymousreply 270December 3, 2021 5:43 AM

I think Close had sell out weeks in the beginning of the run. It was the only new musical of the season practically.

There was that big scandal when they faked the box office numbers when she was on vacation. They made it look like her not being there had no effect on box office which in truth it did.

(Feud: Sunset Boulevard Ryan Murphy, are you reading this?)

by Anonymousreply 271December 3, 2021 5:46 AM

[quote]How can one have diva airs after starring on…Eight Is Enough?

You're so right, R267. It was no "Life Goes On."

by Anonymousreply 272December 3, 2021 5:49 AM

She hated Eight is Enough. Thought she ruined her career by doing it and the producers were kind of "strange" she told Alec Baldwin on his podcast. One told her she had delusions of grandeur about starring on Broadway. Said she'd be lucky if she played housewives for the rest of her career.

the link shows Betty as Miss Fort Worth (it's on facebook so you need an account.)

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by Anonymousreply 273December 3, 2021 5:57 AM

r271 who understudied for Close?

by Anonymousreply 274December 3, 2021 8:55 AM

Karen Mason.

by Anonymousreply 275December 3, 2021 9:00 AM

I don't see Betty Lynn's claim re Meadowlark as farfetched. It's showbusiness. Schwartz could easily have shmoozed her.

by Anonymousreply 276December 3, 2021 9:01 AM

Thanks r275

by Anonymousreply 277December 3, 2021 9:08 AM

Wipe that smirk off your face, Datalounge.

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by Anonymousreply 278December 3, 2021 9:52 AM

^^^ The Chimpanzee.

by Anonymousreply 279December 3, 2021 12:20 PM

Hate to be a spoil sport here but DAMMIT that Meadowlark was obviously written for me as consolation for having to slum it as a sitcom lead instead of doing my real love...the theatre.

by Anonymousreply 280December 3, 2021 12:22 PM

R277... here she is... and she's great.

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by Anonymousreply 281December 3, 2021 2:15 PM

R249, In all my years of listening to that song, I never realized that's what it means. It FINALLY makes sense.

by Anonymousreply 282December 3, 2021 4:28 PM

Meadowlark is boring AF.

by Anonymousreply 283December 3, 2021 4:28 PM

Were Patti or Bernadette's shows any better, r267?

by Anonymousreply 284December 3, 2021 5:04 PM

Betty Buckley was good in “Another Woman” but the real showstopper in the film was Sandy Dennis. Her bar scene, which evolves from a slow burn to bristling anger, was electrifying.

by Anonymousreply 285December 3, 2021 7:18 PM

I always felt that the reason for the lyrics of Don't Cry for Me Argentina was so they could use the same lyrics that she sang during her triumph and give them a different meaning when she sings it while she is dying.

by Anonymousreply 286December 3, 2021 7:38 PM

Exactly, r286.

by Anonymousreply 287December 3, 2021 9:36 PM

Sandy was a gem, r285.

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by Anonymousreply 288December 3, 2021 9:41 PM

Don't remember if anyone mentioned that Carole Demas who sang "Meadowlark" first and shitcanned for Lupone was the original Sandy in the Off-Broadway then Broadway "Grease" and is on the original cast album.

by Anonymousreply 289December 3, 2021 9:48 PM

We know...

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by Anonymousreply 290December 3, 2021 10:07 PM

Keep your Sandy chatter on the "Live Annie" thread, bitches.

by Anonymousreply 291December 3, 2021 10:13 PM

Poor Carole Demas was also fired from the '71 "No, No, Nanette" and was replaced by Susan Watson.

by Anonymousreply 292December 3, 2021 10:14 PM

Yes, Betty...

by Anonymousreply 293December 3, 2021 10:15 PM

R292, Doesn't Lainie Kazan trump Carole by being fired from two Broadway shows in the same season, Seesaw and The Women?

by Anonymousreply 294December 4, 2021 12:58 AM

Karen Mason is pretty great. Why didn't she get the national tour that Linda Balgord got? (and quickly closed.)

by Anonymousreply 295December 4, 2021 6:22 AM

Balgord is kind of twitchy and strange.

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by Anonymousreply 296December 4, 2021 6:25 AM

I will always love Betty Buckley as Miss Collins in the movie "Carrie" (1976). She is great in this scene where she punishes the mean girls after they bullied Carrie.

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by Anonymousreply 297December 4, 2021 10:07 AM

Karen was probably a better version of Glenn. Better voice, more warmth.....but she wasn't a "name". Not that Balgord is/was....but Linda certainly was memorable. She has a weird voice and gave a weird performance. And had already played Griz on Briadway so clearly ALW liked her.

...but yeah, they needed a name for the tour to work, and with Linda and the handicapped set....it wasn't going to happen.

(I really dislike Linda's singing.)

If Webber was smart he would have offered the tour to Buckley. She'd have blown everyone away.

I heard someone say Buckley gave a print interview at some point warning actresses that playing Norma wasn't worth it and was too demanding...and Andrew got mad about it. I looked online for more details about this but found none. Which publication ran that interview? I want to read it.

by Anonymousreply 298December 5, 2021 5:08 AM

Surely that was Patti about EVITA? She complains about the score as a form of misogyny.

by Anonymousreply 299December 5, 2021 5:17 AM

I don't think she'd say that r298. She loved playing the role. It was the highlight of her career she says.

It wasn't without stress. London went well except she did some thing where she'd growl her voice at certain parts which gave her nodes and she had to not speak for 6 weeks. (that's when Elaine Paige jumped in to keep the show running until Buckley could return.)

Then when she came to NYC the NY Times ran an article that she felt emphasized too much the fact that she wasn't as big of a movie star as Close and would she be able to sell tickets. (her vocal coach helped her by saying all you can do is give a good performance. Leave the rest to the marketing team.)

It was also hard in NY because after playing the role for a year in London Trevor Nunn got panicky about her interpretation and worried it wasn't as broad as Close's. At the last minute he treated to tweak and change the performance which scared her. (he was right in away I guess because I can remember the NY Times review said her Norma was like one that had been to Betty Ford Center and got her stuff together and wasn't as unhinged as Close's was.)

But overall she always sounds very positive about the show, Trevor Nunn and ALW.

by Anonymousreply 300December 5, 2021 5:20 AM

r299 only after she got fired from Sunset. There is a youtube clip where she is on the Joan Rivers Show (she sings I Dreamed a Dream and explains why she isn't going to do it in NYC.)

Rivers asks her point blank did you like doing Evita where she beams I LOVED IT!!

All the misogony stuff only came when she was fired which I guess is understandable. It must have hurt terribly to be let go like that.

by Anonymousreply 301December 5, 2021 5:22 AM

LuPone also reflected on the time she trashed her dressing room after learning she was fired from Sunset Boulevard. “I took a floor lamp and I used it as batting practice,” she said. “I smashed up my waiting area and then took the floor lamp and threw it out of the second floor window.”

by Anonymousreply 302December 5, 2021 6:07 AM

[Quote] then took the floor lamp and threw it out of the second floor window.”

She was lucky.

by Anonymousreply 303December 5, 2021 6:09 AM

Didn't Betty Lynn claim that her London digs was haunted? I think she was known as Batty Betty.

by Anonymousreply 304December 5, 2021 6:09 AM

that was when she did Dear World a few years ago r304

She had to move.

by Anonymousreply 305December 5, 2021 6:13 AM

Oh, well. The worst is Ellen Greene.

by Anonymousreply 306December 5, 2021 6:37 AM

How so r306?

by Anonymousreply 307December 5, 2021 6:38 AM

Did Bacall ever cover Meadowlark?

by Anonymousreply 308December 5, 2021 7:45 AM

Did Betty Lynn ever cover "Hearts not Diamonds"?

by Anonymousreply 309December 5, 2021 7:48 AM

If she did, you probably wouldn't recognize it from the arrangement.

by Anonymousreply 310December 5, 2021 7:50 AM

Now Betty can sings those boring Sondheim songs any way she fucking wants to.

by Anonymousreply 311December 5, 2021 9:31 AM

I am amazed at people who claim Close "acted the hell out of it." She hammed the hell out of it. Half the reason the set was so big was there was less to replace after she chewed her way through it each night. There was no subtlety in Close's performance, even her vulnerable moments were overwrought, reinforced by her wobbly upper range, if you could call it an upper range. Even Swanson's performance had brief moments where Norma was a real person, not playing the part of a star. Close went from zero to insanity from her entrance and never let up. It was fascinating and boring at the same time.

by Anonymousreply 312December 5, 2021 12:41 PM

R312, Lovely.

by Anonymousreply 313December 5, 2021 12:44 PM

I totally agree that Close was cringe. Some called it kabuki but jesus....it was like kid's theatre. He was all gasping and big faces and zero believability. Folks just cheered cause she was a name.

I liked her far better in the ALW birthday concert at Royal Albert Hall. She was subdued for the cameras there and it worked far better. She also seemed to have drastically dialed-back the camp in her performance for the revival a few years ago (the one with that hideous set). Funny how her once so-called "brilliant" take on Norma needed adjusting....

You got most of that info from that documentary profile on Betty, right r300? The one with the footage of Norma's last scene and Betty and her pilates instructor talking about the work she out into the role?

Though I didn't get that it was Betty's growl that caused nodules or her departurefrom the show. I mean....she only growled on the last "...wiiiiith oooooone lllllllllllllllllllllllllook.....!" She didn't exactly Christina Aguilera her way through the score.

....so there was no "Norma ain't worth it ladies..." article/interview. Hmmm. Wonder why someone said there was...

I agree Norma is her best role. Griz and Margaret, though awesome, were sketches.

by Anonymousreply 314December 5, 2021 2:05 PM

Whoops - called Glenn Close "He" somehow! LOL.

SHE was all....

by Anonymousreply 315December 5, 2021 2:06 PM

R315, Whatever.

by Anonymousreply 316December 5, 2021 2:26 PM

Saw Glenny and Betty. Glen was fine, but I have to be truthful and say the set blew me away more. Betty earned every cheer. Not just singing, but she was Norma and of a lifetime of going to Broadway I can honestly say Betty's "As If We Never Said Goodbye" starting with Hogeye was the single most thrilling thing I've seen onstage. For some reason the really great clip shot from the second row isn't online anymore. Someone had posted it on Betty's twitter and there tons praise and she seemed genuinely moved by the comments.

by Anonymousreply 317December 5, 2021 3:54 PM

She had some sex appeal, so her coupling with Joe didn't seem so skeevy.

by Anonymousreply 318December 6, 2021 12:01 AM

The problem is Sunset Blvd isn’t that great and memorable a musical. Sure, Betty was great, but the whole experience was rather forgettable

by Anonymousreply 319December 6, 2021 1:06 AM

I was around during Into the Woods. Betty Lynn was fired for being constantly late to rehearsals. She was warned repeatedly—and then Lapine fired her.

by Anonymousreply 320December 6, 2021 1:39 AM

Yes I've been going to the theater for a very long time (as in I've seen the original productions of all the Prince/Sondheim musicals) and Buckley's singing of As If We Never Said Goodbye was one of the most thrilling moments to be experienced.

by Anonymousreply 321December 6, 2021 1:59 AM


by Anonymousreply 322December 6, 2021 4:51 AM

R321 her "singing of"...?

Your speaking of English is also a thrill.

But yes, even just seejng clips, it was clearly a really iconic Broadway moment.

by Anonymousreply 323December 6, 2021 7:01 AM

Singing of is correctly phrased.

by Anonymousreply 324December 6, 2021 12:06 PM

R78 To Connie? I did not know that.

by Anonymousreply 325December 7, 2021 12:08 AM

The thing about Close's performance is

1. you have to specify when you saw it

2. it is a myth that she was this huge movie star stealing the limelight from Patti and to big a movie star for Betty to replace

Close was kind of struggling in films at this point. It had been 5 years since Dangerous Liasions and most of her output in those 5 years wasn't that great except for Reversal of Fortune but Jeremy Irons got all the attention for that. She was doing TV (yes high profile getting an Emmy for that Streisand produced lesbian in the military film) but she was also doing small plays around LA seemingly trying to get her film career back in gear. She wasn't that confident about her singing and has said she was always terribly nervous in her early days when she auditioned for musicals. I think she took Sunset as a way to relaunch herself (and also probably thought it was a great role.) I seriously doubt she or anyone else ever imagined that Patti the diva of Broadway would bomb and Close would be the success

As to her performance the early performances in LA were just electric. She was raw, emotional, hysterical, funny, yet real. I saw it at the very beginning and then at the end. She was probably quite nervous headlining a big musical like that which she had never done but she channeled that nervousness into the character and it was just brilliant. One of the most amazing performances I've ever seen. She did a long run in LA and yes towards the end was a bit broader and fell into the mechanicalness that comes with a long run. I didn't see it in NY but I'd guess she was like that when she did her long run there. I don't think it would have been physically possible to sustain the performance she gave at the beginning.

Oh and yes she was funny. I've never seen anyone else get laughs as Norma. (I heard Elaine Paige did though.) Each trip up or down the stairs was had it's own little story and some of her line readings (Joe: How old is this character in your script? Norma: Sixteen!) brought the house down. (Betty got no laugh at all on that but we've discussed her lack of comedy skill.)

I saw the revival and I thought she did a nice job of toning down the broadness yet was still big enough.

Man, in that LA opening days the way she sings so much to LIVE (breaks down) for! Spinetingling.

by Anonymousreply 326December 7, 2021 5:58 AM

[Quote] Close was kind of struggling in films at this point

Patti and Betty never even rose high enough to reach the downward tracjectory of "struggling in films at this point."

by Anonymousreply 327December 7, 2021 6:00 AM

[Quote] Patti the diva of Broadway

Strange how you analyze Close's career but act like a publicist for Patti.

by Anonymousreply 328December 7, 2021 6:02 AM

[quote]Patti and Betty never even rose high enough to reach the downward trajectory of "struggling in films at this point."

We chose television as a more intimate medium to showcase our dramatic talents at their apex in smash hit series.

by Anonymousreply 329December 7, 2021 6:06 AM

ok now onto Betty (didn't realize how long my last post was)

Sang it beautifully. Big lush tones. The one you'd want to get the album of and listen too....BUT

Betty always sounds a bit defensive (and a little attacking of Patti and Glenn) when she says she wanted her Norma to have some humanity.

To me she was a bit muted. The line about Norma post-Betty Ford in the Times review was so accurate. She was just a nicer and saner Norma than Close.

and no r328 I'm hardly a publicist for LuPone. She was just plain odd in the role. Like a deer in the headlights who was constantly wondering if she was on her mark. No stage presence, no "star quality" and kind of grating vocally. You'd never know she'd starred in huge musicals before. At times she seemed like someone had left the stage door unlocked and some woman wandered onto the set and didn't know what show she was in.

My armchair analysis of this is that by this point in her career Betty had gained the reputation and was struggling with the fact that people thought she was (and I love Betty) a bitch. She seemed afraid to be the raging nasty woman her Margret in Carrie was and to me it she seemed like she was worried that people would like her so she is a bit ingratiating. I'm guessing that is what Trevor Nunn got jitters about at the last minute. She was nicer and smaller than Close and then by this time Close's star status had been restored and people wanted to say her. Nunn must have panicked and wanted more Margaret in her Norma.

To me the show has never worked without Close. Betty sang so well but she faded a bit into the dullness of the Joe storyline and didn't give the shock to the system Close did each time she entered.

by Anonymousreply 330December 7, 2021 6:11 AM

I saw Glenn Close in previews for Sunset Blvd in Los Angeles. She was fine. Singing voice was ok. Then, I went to closing night in LA. Her performance had changed- I was shocked. She was mugging, hopping around the stage, making funny noises, milking laughs. I couldn't believe how much the director let her start playing to the audience. It was a disgrace.

by Anonymousreply 331December 7, 2021 6:16 AM

[Quote] and no [R328] I'm hardly a publicist for LuPone.

Well... Patti mostly bombed post EVITA (e.g. the revival of OLIVER!). Your post makes no mention of that.

by Anonymousreply 332December 7, 2021 6:17 AM

ok r232 I didn't say she was THE Broadway diva. She was a Broadway diva. Huge acclaimed hits with Evita and Anything Goes. You seem to want to start a fight. No I didn't mention her 4 performances in Oliver. Anything Goes restored the lean years after Evita and she was considered a Broadway star. (obviously since ALW did hire her.)

by Anonymousreply 333December 7, 2021 6:24 AM

ALW also hired that American for aspects of love. LuPone is a star to theatre queens only. I don't believe that Close would have been intimidated. Most of LuPone's projects don't pan out. She never had a string of successes like Close did.

by Anonymousreply 334December 7, 2021 6:28 AM

There's a false narrative out there about LuPone. Even Forbidden Broadway references (or created) it with that lyric about her being a latterday Merman. It goes something like "Who do they [producers] phone? Patti LuPone!" Bernadette Peters got the Annie Get Your Gun revival, not LuPone.

by Anonymousreply 335December 7, 2021 6:31 AM

Alls I know about Patti is, I went to see her in Anything Goes in 1988 not really knowing who she was. It was by far THE most exciting, vibrant, thrilling performance I've ever witnessed. When she sang, she my heart was beating outside my chest.

I've seen her sing live dozens of times since then, in concerts and in shows, and she always delivers. For me, the is THE Broadway Diva. I believe that during the pandemic, she became a living legend. We will be poorer when she retires from the stage, and I will be devastated when she dies.

I'm a realist. I know she's not everyone's cup of tea, and, unfortunately she's never been huge box office. No denying that.

Her supernatural talents are on display here. Thank God two people had the foresight to tape Evita. Doing Rainbow High she is utter perfection. The thing with the fur wrap "DRESSED UP somewhere to go"- I've seen many women do it. Loni Ackerman, Flo Lacey, Elaine Paige and on and on. No one did it like Patti.

I will be paying my tribute on December 22 when I go to see Company.

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by Anonymousreply 336December 7, 2021 6:34 AM

LuPone was a big enough star to get the role over Buckley who tried to get it originally. She'd had Les Miz and Anything Goes and left the musical theater on an up note prior to her TV run.

She wasn't known to just "theater queens" (ugh you must be of the generation that still uses that word. yuck.) She was known to anyone who had a TV from 1979 to 198whatever as the woman from Evita. Women know her. Aspiring girl singers wanted to be her.

(and why are you arguing with me about this? I'm not even a fan of hers as I said.)

And Close has said musicals made her nervous so headlining a big show like Sunset I'm sure brought her some anxiety. The woman had never had the lead in a musical before (except maybe in summer stock or college.)

by Anonymousreply 337December 7, 2021 6:37 AM

[Quote] I believe that during the pandemic, she became a living legend.

Did she send away in the mail or...?

by Anonymousreply 338December 7, 2021 6:41 AM

Aspiring girl singers wanted to be Andrea McArdle or Jodi Benson. That doesn't make them stars. (And unlike those two, LuPone has none been influential as a singer.)

by Anonymousreply 339December 7, 2021 6:42 AM

[Quote] She wasn't known to just "theater queens" (ugh you must be of the generation that still uses that word. yuck.) She was known to anyone who had a TV from 1979 to 198whatever as the woman from Evita. Women know her.

They don't reliably show up for her at the box office. She is not a star.

by Anonymousreply 340December 7, 2021 6:43 AM

LuPone's poor diction is legendary.

When she sings, she slurs.

Rex Reed has been calling her out on this since Evita.

by Anonymousreply 341December 7, 2021 6:47 AM


by Anonymousreply 342December 7, 2021 8:42 AM

[quote] And Close has said musicals made her nervous so headlining a big show like Sunset I'm sure brought her some anxiety. The woman had never had the lead in a musical before (except maybe in summer stock or college.)

She starred opposite Jim Dale in the original production of Barnum.

by Anonymousreply 343December 7, 2021 10:46 AM

Did they ever build a TV show around Jim Dale?

by Anonymousreply 344December 7, 2021 11:55 AM

No, but they built one around me.

by Anonymousreply 345December 7, 2021 1:12 PM

R333, making an observation about how I found the sound of her voice is nowhere near starting a fight. This is starting a fight. But I make it point of principle not to fight with the mentally feeble.

by Anonymousreply 346December 7, 2021 2:18 PM

[quote]And Close has said musicals made her nervous so headlining a big show like Sunset I'm sure brought her some anxiety.

With good reason. So often a musical really benefits when the cast can actually sing.

by Anonymousreply 347December 7, 2021 2:20 PM

Close was the most fun Norma while still delivering in the serious moments. I liked that she had fun with it and wasn't as dour as Betty. Some people really believe that dark characters like that should never get laughs and, that if the actor causes the audience to laugh, they've failed. I believe it means they've succeeded. If the audience is so caught up in the story that they're laughing to relieve their own stress and anxiety, that means they're really paying attention and invested. Most of Close's biggest laughs came from moments like that.

I've seen it happen in productions of Gypsy as well in that scene right before "Everything's Coming Up Roses" where Rose says "and I can make you now" to Louise. That line should get a nervous laugh, but many actors speed right past it to not allow the audience time to laugh.

by Anonymousreply 348December 7, 2021 4:25 PM

Close had plenty of musical experience - all those years with the Up With People cult!

by Anonymousreply 349December 7, 2021 4:50 PM

I had never heard of Close when I saw Barnum at the beginning of its run but she was clearly someone to be noticed.

by Anonymousreply 350December 7, 2021 8:01 PM

I'm old enough to have seen Glenn in the musical Rex when it previewed in Boston in 1976.

by Anonymousreply 351December 7, 2021 10:20 PM


Is that the gag line from the Forbidden Broadway Anything Goes bit? If so thank you - I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Obviously that's the joke...LOL

by Anonymousreply 352December 7, 2021 11:12 PM


See, that's interesting to me...in the proshot footage of her in LA she's camp as hell in the last scene and grinning and posing. Wouldn't they have shot that footage early in her run....when you say Glenn was restrained?

I have to remind folks that in every video I've seen of Betty as Norma - and I've tried to see them all - she gets laughs. "16", "I AM....BIG - its the pictures that got small" and "a half pound since Tuesday" always get laughs. They're good lines...but let's not pretend Betty can't do dry humor. She can, she did, and there's video proof.

Glenn couldn't make me care about Norma though. She was much easier to laugh with/at because it felt like a cautionary tale - watch out for the crazy cougar!!

Betty's Norma was deeply shaken and so was I by the end. You care that she loses everything and wish it didn't have to go that way. Glenn was just a spectacle.

Not without her own merits of course but come on now.....Betty's voice, looks and terrifying stillness got under your skin. She was right to say she wanted a more human Norma. She even convinced them to adjust that ugly eye makeup.

by Anonymousreply 353December 7, 2021 11:23 PM

Great thread! I’ll just add that it deserves noting that Elaine Paige is the only one in costume on the actual set that ALW chose to film for the “As If We Never Said Goodbye” official video. Many say she was the ultimate Norma… I’d agree.

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by Anonymousreply 354December 8, 2021 1:40 AM

R353 I wouldn't surprise me if they shot more proshot footage once it was decided that Glenn was going to play it in NYC. I will never forget that closing night performance. After all the mugging and laugh getting, she did a curtain speech. She mentioned the '94 earthquake, the death of Jackie Kennedy, and the OJ car chase, all of which happened during her run.

Goddamn, I will never forget how crushed I was when I heard Patti was fired from NYC. Ugh.

by Anonymousreply 355December 8, 2021 4:54 AM

R352, I loved that bit.

When they would get to the part where she sings "Anything Goes!", she instead sang "Patti LuPone!!!".

by Anonymousreply 356December 8, 2021 5:09 AM

[Quote] Is that the gag line from the Forbidden Broadway Anything Goes bit? If so thank you - I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Obviously that's the joke...LOL

I've always thought that she's saying "I beg to differ with you, Billy" but in Patti's slurred way.

by Anonymousreply 357December 8, 2021 7:36 AM

My favorite part of the FB number is the clumping sounds during the dance break. So MEAN.

by Anonymousreply 358December 8, 2021 12:07 PM

In the theater mean is another word for honesty.

by Anonymousreply 359December 8, 2021 3:56 PM

Everything's coming up Patti for me and for me!

by Anonymousreply 360December 8, 2021 4:07 PM

r290 That was fun. Barry Bostwick is now playing the Dad trying to fix up his gay son on Netflix's Single All the Way.

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by Anonymousreply 361December 8, 2021 4:14 PM

R361, Barry Bostwick displaying his bulge and ass in 1984.

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by Anonymousreply 362December 8, 2021 5:22 PM

...um ok... Enough Barry thank you LOL. This is Betty's thread.

R354 I really like Paige in the role - the vulnerability and natural charm and voice are all good - but she kept mugging AS Gloria Swanson. I get that they have a certain visual similarity but I found it annoying as hell. Like she was doing an SNL skit. It wasn't necessary. But yeah, ALW really loved her as Norma. The filming may have more to do with needing to drum up interest months/years into the run more than wanting to immortalize her particular take.

I really liked Elaine during the Salome Script sequence in Act One though. Neither Betty nor Glenn made that part as gripping for whatever reason.

I do agree Patti was miscast. Great voice and diva presence, sure, but it didn't feel like a good fit for her. They did owe her a conversation about that, however. There were ways of firing her that would have been respectful....but then ALW and RUG were clearly lacking in respect from the outset, going by the details in her memoir.

Whatever. It should have been Betty opening on Broadway. Easy Tony win. No offense Glenn.

I wish Betty's voice were still there. Seeing her sing like that live is a sincere wish but now it's too late.

by Anonymousreply 363December 8, 2021 6:51 PM

Was the stink of Carrie the reason she had no work on Broadway for the next 7 years or so until Sunset? Her performance was great.

by Anonymousreply 364December 8, 2021 6:53 PM

Paige filmed a music video because she's a major label recording artist in the UK, no?

by Anonymousreply 365December 8, 2021 7:03 PM

Susan Boyle would be an ideal Norma Desmond.

by Anonymousreply 366December 8, 2021 7:11 PM

Or Susan Richardson.

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by Anonymousreply 367December 8, 2021 7:16 PM

Love this.

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by Anonymousreply 368December 8, 2021 8:20 PM

Why didn't Weber give the role initially to Paige especially that it was opening in London?

by Anonymousreply 369December 8, 2021 8:49 PM

Paige claims that it was because she fucked up singing the song - I think it was an early version of "With Onle Look" with a different set of lyrics - at Weber's wedding lunch.

by Anonymousreply 370December 8, 2021 8:54 PM

*With One Look

by Anonymousreply 371December 8, 2021 8:54 PM

I don't think Patti was miscast so much as she got terrible direction. They let her play Norma as fairly normal and very vulnerable. She went mad at the end but there wasn't much build up to it... she snapped. It seems to me London under Patti was still essentially Sydmonton in the West End - a work in progress. They were tweaking and refining and changing right up to New York. Patti kinda got screwed out of the chance to play the part as it and the production evolved.

But she sure could sing it, nobody can take that away from her.

by Anonymousreply 372December 8, 2021 9:23 PM

If only there was a blueprint on how to play the part.

by Anonymousreply 373December 8, 2021 9:29 PM

OK I can't decipher G.S.

by Anonymousreply 374December 8, 2021 10:47 PM

Sorry... the penny dropped.

by Anonymousreply 375December 8, 2021 10:47 PM

Turn in your FAG card. Gloria Swanson.

by Anonymousreply 376December 8, 2021 11:12 PM

r343 she wasn't the lead.

The show wasn't on her shoulders.

by Anonymousreply 377December 9, 2021 4:08 AM

This thread inspired me to listen to some of my old Buckley albums.

Her version of "Skylark" from her album Much More is exquisite, but alas - not available on YouTube.

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by Anonymousreply 378December 9, 2021 9:17 AM

[quote] ...um ok... Enough Barry thank you LOL. This is Betty's thread. [R354] I really like Paige in the role...

...um ok... Enough Elaine Paige thank you LOL. This is Betty's thread.

by Anonymousreply 379December 9, 2021 9:29 AM

I wish more of her studio recordings were on YouTube

by Anonymousreply 380December 9, 2021 7:07 PM

What shows would she have been good in that she didn't get to do?

by Anonymousreply 381December 9, 2021 9:25 PM

R381, The King and I

by Anonymousreply 382December 9, 2021 9:59 PM

^^ LOL

by Anonymousreply 383December 9, 2021 10:39 PM

Actually any of the Rodgers and Hammerstein shows. Why is it she and Patti never did any of them? Or did they?

by Anonymousreply 384December 9, 2021 11:12 PM

There are reasons why Lapone, Buckley and Minnelli did not sell records. They are singing performers, not vocal artists. Garland, Streisand, Ella, Aretha are vocalists and artists. Garland and Streisand are also superb performers.

Merman was the ultimate performer who was impossible to sit through on record. There are singers of much less vocal prowess than Merman, Minnelli et al (Peggy Lee) who were riveting on record and at a mike with great musicians.

by Anonymousreply 385December 9, 2021 11:14 PM

[quote]Merman was the ultimate performer who was impossible to sit through on record

The only reason Merman had a career was before mics, she could bellow to the back of the balcony. It wasn't her good looks.

by Anonymousreply 386December 9, 2021 11:19 PM

They could hear her in the last row of the Brooklyn Paramount.

by Anonymousreply 387December 9, 2021 11:24 PM

Gershwin told her never to take a voice lesson.

by Anonymousreply 388December 9, 2021 11:51 PM

MARY! me all you want.

Seeing this picture of La Buckley beaming tonight at the opening of Company actually made me tear up. That she comes out to support everyone, including Patti like this is lovely. I understand Betty had times when she was difficult, but as far as I'm concerned, all is forgiven.

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by Anonymousreply 389December 10, 2021 12:15 AM

MARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! r389


by Anonymousreply 390December 10, 2021 12:17 AM

I know. MARY me with guns a blazin'

It's warranted. And I embrace that Mary side of me. I'm at peace with my Maryness.

by Anonymousreply 391December 10, 2021 1:50 AM

[quote]That she comes out to support everyone, including Patti like this is lovely.

She went to get her picture taken and uploaded at all the entertainment web sites. She went for the publicity.

To support Patti Lupone? Are you nuts?

by Anonymousreply 392December 10, 2021 1:55 AM

R389 is so young. Or just really dumb.

by Anonymousreply 393December 10, 2021 2:20 AM

Oh, so what? At least her appearance gave us something recent to post about her.

by Anonymousreply 394December 10, 2021 2:30 AM

Betty actually works a lot as an actress lately.

Reoccurring roles on Preacher, Supergirl and some new show that has yet to begin airing. (plus the obligatory Law and Order: SVU recently in a role she twitted she hopes recurs.)

Surprised she was never on American Horror Story. She does well with that gothic Horror type stuff.

by Anonymousreply 395December 10, 2021 2:39 AM

[quote]There are reasons why Lapone, Buckley and Minnelli did not sell records.


by Anonymousreply 396December 10, 2021 4:29 AM

[quote]Actually any of the Rodgers and Hammerstein shows. Why is it she and Patti never did any of them?

I am having a huge giggle imagining Patti LuPone as Maria von Trapp.

by Anonymousreply 397December 10, 2021 4:37 AM

Patti as Mother Superior could give Climb Every Mountain a welcome Mermanesque belt.

by Anonymousreply 398December 10, 2021 5:05 AM


by Anonymousreply 399December 10, 2021 5:07 AM

R393 why is it dumb?

What is your IQ? There's a good chance mine is higher.

by Anonymousreply 400December 10, 2021 6:29 AM

R397 It was the heartbreak of Patti's life that she never got to play Nellie,or Ado Annie, or even Annie Get Your Gun. For whatever reason, those parts just never came together for her.

She actually daned to audition to replace Bernadette in Sunday in the Park with George. Sondheim kept yelling at her "stop belting!" She didn't get it.

by Anonymousreply 401December 10, 2021 6:39 AM

[quote]She actually daned to audition to replace Bernadette in Sunday in the Park with George.

She costumed herself as a Danish girl?

by Anonymousreply 402December 10, 2021 7:13 AM

Oh, R401! Don't try to blame that on autocorrect.

by Anonymousreply 403December 10, 2021 11:04 AM

Does Norman get Betty Lynn jobs?

by Anonymousreply 404December 10, 2021 11:06 AM

She Norwegianed for Pippi Longstocking but that's public education for you.

by Anonymousreply 405December 10, 2021 2:38 PM

Norman gets Betty Lynn blowjobs!

by Anonymousreply 406December 10, 2021 3:42 PM

Didn't Patti do AGYG at Ravinia?

Betty could do Aunt Eller.

by Anonymousreply 407December 10, 2021 4:14 PM

Betty would have been a fine Annie Oakley back in the day.

by Anonymousreply 408December 10, 2021 4:44 PM

She would have been a fine Laurie and taken down Judd in the very first scene when he started acting surly.

by Anonymousreply 409December 10, 2021 4:51 PM

The thought of Betty Lynn applying her depressed, "psychological" interpretation to Annie Fucking Oakley...

by Anonymousreply 410December 10, 2021 5:12 PM

Think 1776- Pippin era, r410.

by Anonymousreply 411December 10, 2021 5:16 PM

Who will speak/perform at Sondheim's memorial service?

by Anonymousreply 412December 10, 2021 6:50 PM

Miss Stritch will find a way.

by Anonymousreply 413December 10, 2021 11:25 PM

Will Zombie Elizabeth Allen manage to show up for *this* Sondheim event?

by Anonymousreply 414December 10, 2021 11:30 PM

How many views did this thread get? I can't believe how many responses I got.

by Anonymousreply 415December 11, 2021 4:20 AM

Dopey Patti thought they wanted her for Cinderella in Into the Woods.

(Um, Cinderella is pretty.)

by Anonymousreply 416December 11, 2021 4:28 AM

But wasn't she played by Anna Kendrick in the movie?

by Anonymousreply 417December 11, 2021 7:41 AM

R416 Wrong. They wanted her for the Witch. She told them she wanted to play Cinderella. Patti was attractive when she was younger. By the way, the Witch is pretty too in that show, queen.

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by Anonymousreply 418December 11, 2021 5:55 PM

The stuff about Close being to broad always baffles me. She was a silent screen star it was all about being broad.

by Anonymousreply 419December 11, 2021 11:49 PM

No, it's about expressiveness.

She clowned embarrassingly. That's why she dialed it waaaay back for the revival.

by Anonymousreply 420December 12, 2021 8:13 AM

Also because she was auditioning for the film version, which Paramount would have produced as they financed the show as well. "Look at me, I can dial it down!"

by Anonymousreply 421December 13, 2021 4:45 AM

so why did critics and the public go crazy over her performance r420?

by Anonymousreply 422December 13, 2021 6:28 AM

Because she was a movie star on Broadway. And she’d already been a convincing psycho in Fatal Attraction.

by Anonymousreply 423December 13, 2021 10:30 AM

I will forever love Patti for yelling at that woman about her mobile phone and texting during the performance.

by Anonymousreply 424December 13, 2021 10:31 AM

R424 What happened there was a woman was texting in the first row. Patti's exit was right by where the woman was seated, and she snatched it out of the women's hand. I understand it was something her character would do.

The other story was recorded. She stopped Rose's Turn to yell at someone taking pictures. People applauded her for it for it afterwards and it went viral.

The thing is, it came out later that it was a magazine photographer who'd been given permission to take pictures. Patti had been made aware beforehand. I guess she forgot. Not her finest hour.

by Anonymousreply 425December 13, 2021 10:43 AM

[Quote] I understand it was something her character would do.

You are beyond a sychophant.

by Anonymousreply 426December 13, 2021 12:07 PM


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by Anonymousreply 427December 13, 2021 12:54 PM

R426 why do you say that? I was honest about her bad behavior in the photog incident. As far as the cell phone thing, I wasn't there, but I heard she grabbed the phone in character. But I have no idea how it came off as there is no video of it.

by Anonymousreply 428December 13, 2021 1:36 PM

I love the way Patti lowers her nasally voice when she gets very serious in discussing the American theater. That way you know Patti LuPone is talking to you very seriously about the American theater.

by Anonymousreply 429December 13, 2021 2:23 PM

[quote]Also because she was auditioning for the film version, which Paramount would have produced as they financed the show as well. "Look at me, I can dial it down!"

Look at me, I can't turn back the clock!

by Anonymousreply 430December 13, 2021 2:24 PM

They should make it with Madonna. They could include flashback footage of Norma playing a slave girl. Madonna could twerk it out.

by Anonymousreply 431December 13, 2021 2:32 PM

Madonna sings more than well enough for that shitty score. Cast her!

by Anonymousreply 432December 13, 2021 2:34 PM

If we're going to go with someone who can't sing, I'd rather Close.

by Anonymousreply 433December 13, 2021 2:34 PM

But Madonna can't act or sing.

by Anonymousreply 434December 13, 2021 2:34 PM

Twice a Threat!

by Anonymousreply 435December 13, 2021 3:06 PM

God, I was so uncomfortable finding out the person she screamed at was a photographer with permission to be there.

It's like this huge FU moment from a star about having good manners in the theatre....which is totally valid....only it is misdirected at completely the wrong person.

Had it been me on the receiving end of that humiliating tirade, I don't know if I would have been able to keep from shouting back "WHO DO I THINK I AM?? A MAGAZINE PHOTOGRAPHER WITH PERMISSION TO BE HERE - REMEMBER??!??"

Imagine being screamed at and escorted out simply for showing up to do a job? And having an audience clap at your humiliation?

Patti should have publically O-pologized and shown her O-ppreciation in some way. It was an awful blunder.

R421 and r423 EXACTLY - perfectly said. This was definitely about Fatal Attraction and the public's curiosity. It was also a weak year for musicals at the Tonys.

I couldn't imagine Paramount casting her in her current physical shape, nevermind the voice. Norma isn't OLD old....that's partly the point. She has to still be seductive and fuckable.

Did anyone see Betty in London and on Broadway? What were the differences? (Aside from the eye makeup) Did she act more OTT like Glenn in London, per the director's preference? Was there no growl at the end?

by Anonymousreply 436December 13, 2021 4:06 PM

Gloria Swanson wasn't seductive and fuckable with her no-lip having ass.

by Anonymousreply 437December 13, 2021 4:08 PM

Patti is guesting on Seth Meyers tonight.

by Anonymousreply 438December 13, 2021 4:14 PM

Will she sing a lullaby?

by Anonymousreply 439December 13, 2021 4:18 PM

[quote]God, I was so uncomfortable finding out the person she screamed at was a photographer with permission to be there.

Dude, who's name is above the title on the marquee? Obviously he was doing something that was distracting her during her performance. That's not how it works. He was fucking up and she threw him out.

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by Anonymousreply 440December 13, 2021 5:02 PM

What R440 said. NO WAY the photographer was performing his job capably if from up on stage, during performance, Loopy could hear this guy out in the house. Absolutely not.

I can only imagine what the press rep for the show must have screamed at the guy and his editors. I can only imagine what Loopy and her agent screamed at the general manager and the press agent. I can only imagine Laura Benanti running for cover.

by Anonymousreply 441December 13, 2021 5:09 PM

"I can only imagine Laura Benanti running for cover."

I wish she'd stop running from me.

by Anonymousreply 442December 13, 2021 5:43 PM

Well 50 was pretty old when Wilder made the film. You were an old person and you accepted that and looked and dressed accordingly. At least the average person.

by Anonymousreply 443December 13, 2021 7:21 PM

There's a reason why the government chose 65 as the minimum age for both Social Security and Medicare.

Unlike today, many Americans never reached it.

by Anonymousreply 444December 13, 2021 8:38 PM

Casting Madonna would be a little too on the nose.

by Anonymousreply 445December 13, 2021 8:41 PM

Could they rewrite Joe as a twentysomething mixed rade dancer who aspires to be a screenwriter? Madonna would have casting approval, of course.

by Anonymousreply 446December 13, 2021 8:49 PM


by Anonymousreply 447December 13, 2021 8:49 PM

Back to me, bitches.


by Anonymousreply 448December 13, 2021 10:36 PM

Those cheekbones.


by Anonymousreply 449December 14, 2021 12:50 AM

Too bad the musical attempts at making Whatever Happened to Baby Jane never worked out.

Patti and Betty would be perfect for the Bette and Joan roles respectively.

by Anonymousreply 450December 14, 2021 5:09 AM

Fuck you bitchy fags! You'll see!

I'll be back where I was born to BAAAAAAAAY!

With one look, I'll be MAAAAAAAAY!

by Anonymousreply 451December 14, 2021 5:32 AM

R450, there is no one in the known universe who could stage manage such a thing. No one.

by Anonymousreply 452December 14, 2021 1:19 PM

They did a musical version of Baby Jane in Houston some years ago with Millicent Martin. I saw it. It was bad.

by Anonymousreply 453December 14, 2021 7:40 PM

A musicalized "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane" sounds to me like the epitome of a "why" musical. How is adding humdrum songs (you know they would be) going to enhance that story in any way?

by Anonymousreply 454December 14, 2021 7:41 PM

[quote] I starting to think Betty’s memoir will be called “The Negotiations Broke Down: My Greatest Almost Roles” by Betty Buckley.

With a special foreword by Joe Mangianello.

by Anonymousreply 455December 14, 2021 7:41 PM

[quote]With one look, I'll be MAAAAAAAAY!

It's gonna be MAY!, Betty.

by Anonymousreply 456December 14, 2021 7:42 PM

[quote]Those final notes of He Plays the Violin are among the most unpleasant on an obc.

R16, yes -- not only for the steely screechiness, but also because I don't think that last note is 100 percent on pitch throughout. Same for some BB's singing on the London cast album of PROMISES, PROMISES.

by Anonymousreply 457December 14, 2021 7:54 PM

[quote]She admits to having a bad attitude in her younger days. She seems to work hard to be nice nowadays.

I don't know if it was a "bad attitude" or extreme neurosis bordering on mental illness. I have no idea if she's better now.

by Anonymousreply 458December 14, 2021 8:07 PM

[quote]Even now she sounds better than Carol Channing, Ethel Merman, Betty Grable, Phyllis Diller and all the old work horses who played on Dolly Broadway in the original run.

Ridiculous. Her voice now has such a severe wobble that it's very hard to listen to. I still can't believe the was cast as Dolly in the tour of that smash-hit production, seeing how she has none of the charm and humor required for the part, and her voice is in tatters.

by Anonymousreply 459December 14, 2021 8:22 PM

R459, The Dolly score is hardly operatic.

by Anonymousreply 460December 14, 2021 9:03 PM

Yeah so....I almost went waaaaay out of my way to see Betty in Dolly.

Then I heard an audio bootleg. My heart broke. I couldn't recognize her. It was awful.

I still wish I'd seen the show, but...I'm not sure I could have enjoyed her vocals. They sounded wrecked.

....not saying Bette or Bernadette were in perfect voice....but I couldn't believe what happened to Betty's instrument.

by Anonymousreply 461December 14, 2021 10:24 PM

Carolee Carmello replaced Buckley at the end of the Dolly tour and CC was so much better both vocally and dramatically.

by Anonymousreply 462December 14, 2021 10:44 PM

I wonder if Patti turned down the tour of Dolly.

I thought Lucie Arnaz and Laurence Luckinbill would have been good choices. I heard her say she doesn't like to tour much anymore because they are in their "third act" at home in Palm Springs. (and some of their kids have "boomeranged.") But touring together used to be a thing they'd do. I think they did They're Playing Our Song and Whose Life is It Anyway alternating the male and female versions. I think that would have been interesting to see both.

by Anonymousreply 463December 14, 2021 11:15 PM

When I think of Carolee Carmello, I think of that clip of her singing "The Music That Makes Me Dance" on one of those cruises. "Shrill" doesn't even begin to cover it.

by Anonymousreply 464December 14, 2021 11:20 PM

R463, Larry Luckinbill is considerably older than Lucie and semi-mobile these days.

In videos she has posted on Facebook, dementia appears to have struck Larry.

by Anonymousreply 465December 14, 2021 11:36 PM

That's mean of her to post a demented Larry.

by Anonymousreply 466December 14, 2021 11:42 PM

[quote]The Dolly score is hardly operatic.

Agreed, but I don't want to hear a wobbly voice in tatters sing non-challenging show tunes, either.

by Anonymousreply 467December 15, 2021 4:03 AM

You can't abide Gwen Verdon then, I guess.

by Anonymousreply 468December 15, 2021 12:18 PM

Or me in Coco.

by Anonymousreply 469December 15, 2021 12:41 PM

I really hoped the Dolly tour would resume after covid.

To whoever suggested Ellen Greene - she would have been awesome in it. A Carol Channing esque Dolly.

by Anonymousreply 470December 15, 2021 2:37 PM

But the cast would revolt before the first week is out.

by Anonymousreply 471December 15, 2021 2:38 PM

[quote]You can't abide Gwen Verdon then, I guess.

Well, I wouldn't say that, but I do find her rather difficult to listen to on the CHICAGO album. All of her other recordings are great.

by Anonymousreply 472December 15, 2021 3:09 PM

Gwen would have probably been a great Dolly. The score is right in her range and she had the charm and comic timing for it.

by Anonymousreply 473December 15, 2021 4:53 PM

Maybe Carolee was channeling Gwen.

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by Anonymousreply 474December 15, 2021 4:58 PM

R473, very true.

by Anonymousreply 475December 15, 2021 6:42 PM


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by Anonymousreply 476December 15, 2021 7:41 PM

R436 Re Patti yelling. This shouldn't matter, but the photographer was an African-American woman . I always pictured a white guy, but nope.

by Anonymousreply 477December 15, 2021 8:02 PM

R477, and though of course I have no way of knowing if this is true, I have read and heard that the photographer was pre-approved to shoot for P.R. purposes, and it was not a flash camera. Can anyone corroborate?

by Anonymousreply 478December 15, 2021 8:22 PM

[quote]was pre-approved to shoot for P.R. purposes,

Which is fine, but they can't be a distraction.

by Anonymousreply 479December 15, 2021 9:32 PM

You could tell by her tone that Patti loved berating the photographer. Any opportunity to be nasty she takes. Criticizing Madonna in Evita etc.

The oddest was when the Les Miz movie came out. She was so blase about AnnE saying she hasn't watcher her screener yet. Why would she be jealous of AnnE. She was like 30 years too old for the role by then.

Was she always so nasty or did the Sunset thing turn her bitter?

by Anonymousreply 480December 16, 2021 2:27 AM

And I never heard of a photo shoot during an actual performance. They are usually during rehearsals.

by Anonymousreply 481December 16, 2021 2:59 AM

I had forgotten the details of the LuPone vs. photographer incident. According to this article, it WAS a flash camera -- and no taking of flash pictures during a performance would ever have been approved by the production for any reason, so I guess my memory was wrong about that. Unless the article is inaccurate. P.S. This happened at the second-to-last performance of GYPSY.

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by Anonymousreply 482December 16, 2021 3:43 AM

I remember reading at the time that she was furious because they were flash photos. If they weren't flash photos, how would she have been aware they were being taken?

by Anonymousreply 483December 16, 2021 4:25 AM

Patti's always been angry. I can remember her on Live at Five during Evita complaining that some guy named Joe Pollack wrote her a nasty letter because he saw a matinee and she wasn't there. She said she called every Joe Pollock in the book screaming are you the Joe Pollock who wrote me that nasty letter it wasn't my fault I wanted to do matinees too but they wouldn't let me.

(the awkward part was she pronounced Pollock like polak like the Polish slur and Jack Cafferty sat their awkwardly until she quickly corrected herself.)

by Anonymousreply 484December 16, 2021 6:17 AM

Of course I was WONDERFUL in that Johnny Depp film!

by Anonymousreply 485December 16, 2021 7:26 AM

R480 Sunset made it worse. R484 She was hardly able to do 6 eves.

by Anonymousreply 486December 16, 2021 8:49 AM

Betty Buckley and Sissy Spacek were both terrific in this scene from "Carrie".

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by Anonymousreply 487December 16, 2021 9:43 AM

Thank you for reminding everyone of the REAL topic of this thread, r487!

by Anonymousreply 488December 16, 2021 9:50 AM

If Buckley was any good she would have gotten the movie of 1776. Especially when they wanted everyone but her.

by Anonymousreply 489December 16, 2021 9:52 AM

The facts of the Patti yelling at the photographer incident-

She was an African American lady working for The New Yorker.

Patti was told beforehand that she would be taking pictures. She forgot.

There was no flash, but a small green light that was visible to Patti.

After the incident, Patti called the woman to apologize, and she was paid a sum by producers to not reveal publically that Patti had approved her being there.

In February 2020, the woman was taking pictures for Company. She introduced herself to Patti, who had clearly forgotten the fact that the woman had permission to take pictures. There is a tic tok video of Patti and the woman, where Patti laughingly introduces her and says "I just now found out she had permission to be there!" Patti imitates herself yelling at the lady in a self deprecating way.

If you do a little digging, you'll find it

by Anonymousreply 490December 16, 2021 9:59 AM

[quote]Patti was told beforehand that she would be taking pictures. She forgot.

Early-onset Alzheimer's ... tragic!

by Anonymousreply 491December 16, 2021 10:11 AM

I have huge respect for LuPone and a bit of misplaced affection (on account of not knowing her) but she does seem angry and short tempered all the time and utterly indifferent to people's reaction to it (which is pretty bad mannered.) I wonder what she's always so mad about? Some crap things have happened to her, yes, but she's done pretty well... still she's always angry it seems or at least ready to become angry in a nanosecond.

by Anonymousreply 492December 16, 2021 12:16 PM

Because she'd like to be Streisand.

by Anonymousreply 493December 16, 2021 12:17 PM

Well to tell the truth , so would everyone here.

by Anonymousreply 494December 16, 2021 1:29 PM

Unless Patti Lupone is your mother, it really doesn't matter how angry she is.

If you are a theatergoer, an audience member, a fan... all that matters is what she does on stage.

If you have to work with her, then be on your toes and check in regularly with your union.

by Anonymousreply 495December 16, 2021 1:43 PM

r495 = Patti Lupone

Now get out of my thread!

by Anonymousreply 496December 16, 2021 1:44 PM

And my post at R495 goes DOUBLE for Batty Buckley.

by Anonymousreply 497December 16, 2021 1:48 PM

I don't think it was very nice of Carrie to kill Miss Collins.

by Anonymousreply 498December 16, 2021 6:40 PM

None of us think that, r498.

by Anonymousreply 499December 16, 2021 6:47 PM

Remember Heather's $30 hand sanitizer from the early days of COVID?

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by Anonymousreply 500December 16, 2021 7:07 PM

^^^ wrong thread

by Anonymousreply 501December 16, 2021 7:07 PM


by Anonymousreply 502December 16, 2021 7:10 PM

Thanks so much, R490. I remember now that I had read some of the details of the incident as you describe them. I couldn't at first remember how Patti knew someone was taking photos if there was no flash, so thanks for addressing that particular point.

So, in a nutshell: Patti terrorized that photographer, and an entire audience, simply because she forgot she was told that photos would be taken, and that she had approved it. Or....maybe she didn't forget and just enjoyed making a big, dramatic scene for her GYPSY swan song.

It's not dissimilar to that incident during NOISES OFF, when audience members heard Patti screaming backstage because she objected to cast members making a speech to collect money for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS after the show. As I remember it, she didn't want to participate in the appeal -- but she didn't want the others to do it without her. Seems that whenever she's angry about something, whether or not she has any justification, she creates a ruckus rather than dealing with it in a calm and professional way. I guess she really, really loves all that drama.

by Anonymousreply 503December 16, 2021 7:21 PM

[quote]So, in a nutshell: Patti terrorized that photographer, and an entire audience,

Terrorized? Are you a six year old girl?

by Anonymousreply 504December 17, 2021 1:14 AM

r487 I love how the seen is so sweet but ends with that zoom in to a closeup of Buckley and her face changes and you can see she's trying to make Carrie feel good but inside she's worried that Carrie is right and the whole prom thing is a trick.

Wow DePalma could work that camera.

by Anonymousreply 505December 17, 2021 2:22 AM

My LuPone story:

I was connecting in LAX and had to take the shuttle bus. I couldn't find it. I stopped at the customer service desk or whatever it was where a woman was arguing with the clerk. In a pause I asked where is the shuttle? (I was in a rush.) The woman turned around and pointed over there and then rolled her eyes and gestured like this clerk is such an idiot!

It was La Lupone.

(she was nice to me at least.)

by Anonymousreply 506December 17, 2021 2:31 AM

OMG! OMG! Guess what I found at Dollar Tree...the Another Woman DVD. Dollar Tree being what it is now, it was $1.25.

by Anonymousreply 507December 17, 2021 2:34 AM

Press reel for Carrie. Betty really sells "when there's no one" but wtf is with that costume? Margaret in a slinky nighty? Dirty pillows hangin'? Weird. The costumes for that show were bonkers.

If it's true that they courted Betty originally for the role, I wonder what made her say no. The script? Money? She ended up doing the infamous Broadway transfer - did they have to beg her to after Cook quit?

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by Anonymousreply 508December 17, 2021 3:18 AM

Yeah they came to her and said Cook quit and if you don't take over everyone will be put out of work and we'll never get to NYC. (and they probably paid her more than they wanted to before.)

I wonder what happened to Maureen McGovern. She did the original workshop and was a bit of a Broadway name back then. Cook seems so out of place. On Seth Rudetsky's show they very carefully talk about how Cook didn't like the "physicality" of the role which I think meant she was too fat for it.

In one of the youtube tapes she can barely make it down the infamous white staircase and has to be helped by chorus boys to get off of it.

by Anonymousreply 509December 17, 2021 3:27 AM

I think that was more because the bannister stopped where Carrie's platform cut into the staircase. Cook would have to get up and then descend without anything to hold onto....not easy for anyone.

Frankly, if I were Buckley or Cook I wouldn't want anything to do with that steep staircase. Talk about an accident waiting to happen...and I can walk and see just fine. Imagine falling at one of the show's only successful moments?

Not to bring things back to Patti, but she told Seth Meyers just this week that she wanted to quit theatre because during War Paint she had bone grinding on bone action happening with her hip. She's had surgery since and also on her shoulder...and Patti's hardly had the career of a dancer. It's just the wear and tear of theatre work, she said.

...what I'm still confused about is, regarding Carrie, is whether Margaret's chair actually rises at the end of Act One. There was so much smoke you could hardly see her....and Lindsay's hands were on fire, so that was obviously the focus...but I think the idea was that Carrie rips open the floor, unleashing flames, while Margaret's chair rises up, trapping her mid-air.

But if you can't even see it, what's the point? And DID it rise? If so...how?

by Anonymousreply 510December 17, 2021 4:25 AM


by Anonymousreply 511December 17, 2021 4:29 AM

As r509 and r510 suggested without outright saying it, Cook refused to continue after she was nearly decapitated when the set malfunctioned.

by Anonymousreply 512December 17, 2021 4:32 AM

[quote]If it's true that they courted Betty originally for the role, I wonder what made her say no. The script? Money?

"Negotiations broke down."

by Anonymousreply 513December 17, 2021 4:59 AM

Given Buckley's outspokenness it is sort of baffling that she never asked (or maybe she did and couldn't get stuff changed) more questions.

Such as why is there suddenly a huge white staircase in Carrie's house?

Why are the girl's showering in gym clothes?

Why does Charlotte d'Amboise wear a dance leotard to school?

She really did give it her all considering when she joined Cook was already telling people it was the Moose Murders of musicals.

She says Debbie Allen had her running wind sprints to increase her stamina. I'd guess Cook didn't do that!

by Anonymousreply 514December 17, 2021 5:27 AM

Well, technically the girls were shown in the showers with bras and panties and towels...not wet uniforms....and the staircase was clearly not supposed to be inside their house....it was outside the gym (there's even one like it in the clip from the movie posted above) but more importantly it was a symbolic stairway to heaven. Random, sure, but a stunning choice in a good way.

...I don't understood how she didn't hit them with the truth though about how weak the show was. There were easy things that could have been done to improve the overall effect. Ditch the togas for one. Drop blood on Carrie in a way that actually looks decent for another. Lose the tap dancing dress stuff.

Supposedly she was friends with Gore and Pitchford...? Did that make her less able to criticize..? Or was she biting her tongue and focusing on the Margaret stuff?

by Anonymousreply 515December 17, 2021 6:05 AM

I think she worked mostly with Hately and tried to get their scenes together to work and didn't have much say in the rest of the show. In that Seth R. interview he has Buckley, Hately, d'Amboise, Sue Snell actress and the book writer I think (maybe Gore too I forget.)

d'Amoise has some interesting stuff to say. First she says Buckley gave the greatest performance she's ever seen in the musical theater. She also hints at how Buckley was subtly trying to work behind the director's back (whom they never mention by name and barely talk about.) She'd call Charlotte they'd just chat and stuff and then Buckley (who did have a long history as an acting/singing coach and openly helped Hately thru the whole thing and the aftermath) would say something slyly about Charlotte's character and d'Amboise who was quite new to it all says she one day realized Betty's trying to give me ideas and get me thinking more in character than I have been.

You have heard the Grease/Greece story r515? If not, Terry Hands the director was told by someone after he said he was having trouble understanding the American teenager part of the show that it was "like Grease." The person meant the show/movie. He thought they meant the country and Greek Tragedy. That's where the final set looking like it came from a production of Medea came from and I guess the togas too. Where in the show did they wear the togas?

Buckley did know Pitchford who was an actor first and was and was one of the people who played Pippin opposite her Catherine plus the book writer is the same guy who wrote the screenplay so she knew him. (She must have known Gore too a bit since she went with Pitchford when he won the Oscars for Fame. You can see her sitting with them when they win.)

by Anonymousreply 516December 17, 2021 6:25 AM

I actually saw Betty Buckley in Carrie. It was a class trip for the drama club. Senior year. My gayness must not have been fully formed yet, because I don't remember fan gurling over Buckley. I think I must have become fully gay that fall in college. Because when I saw Patti in Anything Goes that December, I walked out of the theater WORSHIPING the woman.

by Anonymousreply 517December 17, 2021 9:33 AM

[quote]Because when I saw Patti in Anything Goes that December, I walked out of the theater WORSHIPING the woman.

Attribute that to Cole Porter.

by Anonymousreply 518December 17, 2021 12:42 PM

By that logic, r518, we have to *blame* Cole for Sutton.

by Anonymousreply 519December 17, 2021 2:35 PM

[quote]The costumes for that show were bonkers.

And Debbie Allen's choreography was based on the trend of the day, aerobics and that chorus never stopped moving the second they hit the stage. Too over the top.

by Anonymousreply 520December 17, 2021 4:30 PM

I'm the one who saw Carrie on Broadway. Really underwhelming was the gym teacher, played by Darlene Love, of all people. LeRoy from Fame playing the Travolta character was trip.

I recall the biggest issue with the play being the climatic moment when Carrie gets the blood poured over her. A band of kids come out, LeRoy carrying the bucket, simply pours it over her head. The moment when it happens in the movie is so horrible and tension filled, that this just looked silly.

by Anonymousreply 521December 17, 2021 5:34 PM

Buckley and Hately's scenes together weren't what needed the work. It was everything else that was ludicrously conceived. Whenever those two were the only ones on stage, it was pretty magical. Their performances with those original orchestrations were beautiful, scary, and very haunting.

One of the biggest issues with trying to tell this story satisfyingly on stage is that the climatic prom scene just can't have all the fire and brimstone it needs to work. The little cup of blood they toss on her and the laser lights in the original production didn't do the trick and neither did the weird bucket animation and cheesy death choreography in the revival. The best one so far has been that one from L.A. where they have Chris lifted up in the air and into the rafters.

by Anonymousreply 522December 17, 2021 9:19 PM

Barbara Cook was in her mid-fifties when when did CARRIE. Betty Buckley was twenty years younger.

by Anonymousreply 523December 18, 2021 12:24 AM

With all the current and future cancellations, Sondheim's memorial service will probably be next spring.

by Anonymousreply 524December 18, 2021 12:45 AM

Here, r522...

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by Anonymousreply 525December 18, 2021 1:10 AM

The Ballad of Johnny Pot

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by Anonymousreply 526December 20, 2021 4:20 PM

Is she still hawking Geritol?

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by Anonymousreply 527December 22, 2021 5:32 PM

[quote]Press reel for Carrie. Betty really sells "when there's no one"

The only thing I'd heard from Carrie was an audio of Betty singing this song and it was so good, I thought how could the show have been such a flop? Watching your video, I have the answer.

by Anonymousreply 528December 22, 2021 5:43 PM

Betty and Linzi weren't the problem.

by Anonymousreply 529December 22, 2021 6:42 PM

[quote]how could the show have been such a flop?

Because it was a dumb idea for a musical?

by Anonymousreply 530December 22, 2021 6:48 PM

how many views did this thread get?

I never realized it would be so popular.

by Anonymousreply 531December 22, 2021 6:56 PM
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