Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Gal Gadot's Cleopatra Movie Script Is Complete

Now that the fake casting outrage is over, I’m thinking what to make of this movie. As a Cleopatra expert, I feel like it would have been better if made into a miniseries.

It would be more interesting for them to do Cleopatra’s last year with Mark Antony. They lost the Battle of Actium. Mark Antony is depressed and Cleopatra is doing everything she can to stop Octavian from invading Egypt.

I don’t know how they’re going to fit everything into 3 hours and it be good. And I’m also worried they’ll make it a love story instead of going for politics, which is more interesting.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 203March 17, 2022 10:35 PM

Will they get any actual Egyptian actors to play Egyptians in the film? I'm looking at you Gods of Egypt.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 1November 24, 2021 12:28 AM

The other thing is will they reject the Hollywood Cleopatra and go for the historically accurate Cleopatra?

Cleopatra would have resembled more of a John William Godward painting over looking like Elizabeth Taylor’s Nefertiti fashions.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 2November 24, 2021 12:28 AM

R1 Cleopatra’s council was predominantly Greek so it’ll be mostly white people. She did have a few Egyptians in her council.

by Anonymousreply 3November 24, 2021 12:31 AM

Brad Pitt for Marc Anthony so we can see Angelina's head explode.

by Anonymousreply 4November 24, 2021 12:38 AM

Is Brenton Thwaites Egyptian?

by Anonymousreply 5November 24, 2021 12:39 AM

Why does this woman keep getting cast in all these big movies?

Who in the fuck is she sleeping with??

by Anonymousreply 6November 24, 2021 12:39 AM

Shouldn't they have cast a woman of color?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 7November 24, 2021 12:40 AM

R4 I read the entire e-mail exchange between Pascal, Rudin, and Angelina. I read the script notes and all.

From the notes, it sounded like it was going to a 2000’s era historical bore like “Alexander” and “Gladiator” (yes I think that movie is boring!”).

by Anonymousreply 8November 24, 2021 12:50 AM

R6 She turned high profile after Wonder Woman and as a part of Marvel Universe. Now, she's in high demand by film studios. A simple logic to follow but I understand it's hard for a simpleton like you.

by Anonymousreply 9November 24, 2021 1:03 AM

Doesn't hurt that she's Jewish either, R9.

by Anonymousreply 10November 24, 2021 1:04 AM

Mark Antony was 53 when he died; is there a European actor in the age range who could play the role?

My first thought was Raoul Bova, who is 50.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 11November 24, 2021 1:22 AM

This is terrible. They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman. Gal sucks.

by Anonymousreply 12November 24, 2021 1:32 AM

[quote] They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman

They should’ve cast a handicapable, trans, non-binary Egyptian woman of color.

by Anonymousreply 13November 24, 2021 1:35 AM

R12 Cleopatra wasn’t blood Egyptian. She was Greek.

by Anonymousreply 14November 24, 2021 1:37 AM

The casting of non-Greeks is problematic, Hollywood formulaic and non-Ptolemaic.

by Anonymousreply 15November 24, 2021 1:39 AM

R11 Edgar Ramirez resembles Mark Antony’s statue in my opinion.

I think Daniel Craig should be Julius Caesar.

by Anonymousreply 16November 24, 2021 1:40 AM

Mark Antony’s face reconstructed.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 17November 24, 2021 1:41 AM

I think the state looks like Ramirez

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 18November 24, 2021 1:42 AM

Cleopatra was greek and fugly, I don't know why twitter has gone in the "cleopatra was black!" Prespective when Greeks aren't black, she was cousin to blonde haired alexander the great for fucks sake. Anyway gal is trash, can't act, and is a piece of shit zionist xenophobe.

by Anonymousreply 19November 24, 2021 1:42 AM

[quote] I think the state looks like Ramirez

Is he a square like Wyoming?

by Anonymousreply 20November 24, 2021 1:44 AM

R14

Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut.

White people are obsessed with Cleopatra for this very reason.

by Anonymousreply 21November 24, 2021 1:49 AM

I can’t stand this annoying Jewess.

by Anonymousreply 22November 24, 2021 1:54 AM

Gal Gadot cannot act unfortunately.

by Anonymousreply 23November 24, 2021 1:57 AM

R21 I think Cleopatra is the only figure besides the Virgin Mary to transcend racial boundaries in that she’s been depicted in many forms and has been adapted by whatever group is portraying her.

I would love to see a movie about Hatshepsut.

Nefertiti was a nutjob.

by Anonymousreply 24November 24, 2021 1:57 AM

I thought this movie was meant to be Gaga’s reunion movie with bradley cooper?

by Anonymousreply 25November 24, 2021 1:57 AM

I'm a Cleopatra "expert," too. Well, I'm actually a historian specializing in late-Ptolemaic Egypt, late-Republic/early-Empire Rome, and the political role and impact in religious syncretism in the era.

As an historian, I won't be watching this no matter how long it is or how "complete" the script is.

As an outraged lover of camp and schlock disguised as "famous loves between the African queen desperate to save her county and Europeans who sought to control her," I wouldn't miss this pile of shit (that won't be touched by any self-respecting scarab beetle).

by Anonymousreply 26November 24, 2021 2:13 AM

R26, you're an asphole.

by Anonymousreply 27November 24, 2021 2:15 AM

I would love to see Arsinoe on screen.

Arsinoe was Cleopatra’s younger sister. Their oldest sister Berenice had overthrown their father for a few years and he fled to Rome and returned and had her beheaded when Cleopatra was 13.

According to historians, Arsinoe followed Cleopatra into exile in Syria when she was overthrown by her brothers council.

But when Cleopatra came back to Alexandria through Caesar, there must have been a fallout because when Caesar and Cleopatra went to war with Ptolemy, Arsinoe escaped the palace with her tutor Ganymedes and joined Ptolemy’s army. Ptolemy was held captive by Caesar and Arsinoe fought in his place.

She was declared Queen for a while but after battling, the Egyptians basically traded her in for Ptolemy. Ptolemy ended up drowning during the battle and Arsinoe was brought to Rome in chains with Caesar.

She was paraded in chains through the streets. Romans were horrified that Caesar had brought back a 17 year old Egyptian Princess and put her in chains so he sent her to exile in Greece.

While she was in exile, she still claimed she was the Queen of Egypt and was plotting a return. After Caesar died and Cleopatra met Mark Antony, she promised to find his war if he got rid of Arsinoe.

So Mark Antony had Arsinoe dragged out of her temple in Greece and strangled.

One of the claims of Cleopatra being black comes from the remains of a woman found in the same area and whoever found her claim it’s Arsinoe even though there’s no evidence whatsoever it’s her bones.

by Anonymousreply 28November 24, 2021 2:16 AM

Er, Every Pharoah was a nutter. Cleopatra thought herself a direct descendant of isis. Which is odd since she wasn't even egyptian.

by Anonymousreply 29November 24, 2021 2:34 AM

[quote] Which is odd since she wasn't even egyptian.

Yes, mythical figures are by necessity pinned down to the land where they're venerated.

by Anonymousreply 30November 24, 2021 2:39 AM

[quote] Who in the fuck is she sleeping with??

With whom is she sleeping?

by Anonymousreply 31November 24, 2021 2:44 AM

[bold]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra Movie Script Is Complete[/bold]

This thread is merely the prequel to the inevitable:

[bold]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra's Collapse Is Complete[/bold]

by Anonymousreply 32November 24, 2021 2:59 AM

[quote] Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut. White people are obsessed with Cleopatra for this very reason.

What’s the reason?

by Anonymousreply 33November 24, 2021 3:04 AM

Thwaites is perfect in Egyptian movies.

by Anonymousreply 34November 24, 2021 3:04 AM

Angelina Jolie was supposed to have starred in a Cleopatra movie a number of years ago but ultimately nothing came of it. Hollywood insists on casting beautiful women to play the part of Cleo who was no dollface.

by Anonymousreply 35November 24, 2021 3:05 AM

[quote] Angelina Jolie was supposed to have starred in a Cleopatra movie a number of years ago but ultimately nothing came of it.

“Was supposed to have starred,” or “was supposed to star?”

by Anonymousreply 36November 24, 2021 3:09 AM

R29 Lol it wasn’t like the Elizabeth Taylor movie.

The Ptolemies were possibly atheists. Religion was a form of controlling the peace, that’s why they mixed Greek and Egyptian religion together in Alexandria. There were also Jews and there’s records of Cleopatra giving Jewish temples tax exemptions during a famine.

Cleopatra claiming to be Isis was following tradition. Her father was Dionysus and I think it was Arsinoe II who was Isis as well (her great something grandmother).

The Ptolemies most likely knew it was all bullshit from the books I’ve read.

by Anonymousreply 37November 24, 2021 3:12 AM

[quote] White people are obsessed with Cleopatra …

English people had their interest in Cleopatra whetted by Shakespeare and his rather unsatisfactory play 500 years ago.

And that was compounded 400 years later with George Bernard Shaw's very unsatisfactory play.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 38November 24, 2021 3:16 AM

R35 Nothing came of it because what happened was the producers were focused on the Steve Jobs movie and Angelina was trying to steal away the best directors for Cleopatra. They wanted David Fincher to direct the Jobs movie and Angelina was setting up meetings with him for Cleopatra. Scorsese too. And the script for Cleopatra was still a mess.

They ended up falling out and focusing on the Jobs movie, which fell apart and tanked.

by Anonymousreply 39November 24, 2021 3:18 AM

[quote] the Steve Jobs movie

Kutcher or Fassbender?

by Anonymousreply 40November 24, 2021 3:20 AM

Here’s some script notes a script doctor sent Amy Pascal from the Angelina Jolie movie:

Page 1.

· Ptolemy killing Pompey is the incident that sends Cleopatra into motion. She seizes the opportunity to get into the palace and to Caesar. And, she should make Caesar aware of this. He¹s part of her plan.

· Cleopatra knows she has serious enemies in Egypt and part of her reasoning for going to Rome is to solidify her position. When she returns, rather than managing a plague, she must immediately deal with the threat to her power in a series of strategic assassinations.

· Cleopatra and Octavian need to be equally matched as they vie for their positions with Caesar. Octavian must recognize her as a dangerous adversary and not be so dismissive.

· Going to Fulvia should be Cleopatra¹s idea. After Caesar¹s death, Cleopatra needs to figure out how to get what she wants from Marc Antony, who is now her new boss. She appreciates Fulvia¹s loyalty, brains and ambition. Together, they should engineer the Tarses meeting and make it appear to be Marc Antony¹s idea.

· Cleopatra should suggest that Marc Antony marry Octavia in a move to protect them from Octavian. But, although it is her idea, she is heartbroken nonetheless. It¹s her sacrifice for the greater good, which is Egypt.

· Because this is a love story, Marc Antony should return to Cleopatra finding it impossible to be away from her. After they marry, they both know they¹re doomed.

· At Actium, Marc Antony needs to force her to leave for her own safety. She doesn¹t want to leave but he sends her, knowing it¹s unlikely they will ever see each other again.

· Turn up the boil at the end of the movie. Punctuate how badly Octavian desires her total humiliation and underscore the triumph of her suicide and the brandishing of her myth, and that of ancient Egypt, for all time.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 41November 24, 2021 3:21 AM

Cleopatra exists in our own imagination.

The Shakespeare version, the Shaw version, the Mankiewicz version and even poor Vivien's version failed to reach our imagined expectations.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 42November 24, 2021 3:22 AM

This is an outline of the movie Amy Pascal sent to herself as notes

CLEOPATRA OPENING: PAGE 1-20 HER DEATH BED AND MAIDENS HISTORY OF ALEXANDRIA THE CARPET TRICK LITTLE SCENE WITH CAESER A BATH AND A HAIRCUT WALKING TO THE BOAT HEBNEY PTOLMEY COMES TOO SEASICK

miss the description on bottem of page 3...about HER PLACE IN HISTORY

do we miss the silk merchant?

i like the little scene between her and caeser

the only problem with hebney is that we may be on his side not hers...movie history tells us to side with the resistance not the aristocracy we need to think about this

ROME: PAGE 20-90 LITTER CHAIR THROUGH AND A HISTORY LESSON ARRIVAL AT PALACE AND MEET THE WIFE CAESERS PARTY FOR THE QUEEN CAESERS VISIT STICKING UP FOR ARSINOE IV CLEO STORMS THE SENATE CLEO MEETS ANTHONY CLEO GOES TO BRUTUS VILLA SWIMMING IN THE TIBER CAESER SAYS GOOD BYE ANTONY SAYS NO VOTE AND TELLS CLEO CLEO VISITS CICERO IN BATHHOUSE ANTONY AND CLEO AT THE VILLA CLEO TEACHES PTOLMEY A LESSON CAESER RETURNS AND IS VICTORIOUS CAESARS EXCESS CAESAR IS MURDERED CLEO LEAVES SHIP AND WATCHES WILL BE READ CLEO COMFORTS CAESARIAN ON WAY HOME

NOT SURE I BELIEVE HER SNEAKING BACK INTO ROME FOR THE FUNERAL

EVERYONE CHOSES SIDES PAGE 90-110 CLEO RETURNS TO THE PLAGUE AND DRY NILE APOLLODORUS TELLS US ABOUT TRIUMVARITE CICERO IS DE ARMED APOLLORDORUS TELLS OF PTOLEMY AND IS KILLED CLEOPATRA GOES TO SEE CASSIUS CAESARIAN DOESNT REALLY LIKE CROWNS HEBENY SENDS A GIFT TO HER NO MORE PLAGUE APOLLODORUS TELLS US THE EAST AND WEST ARE DIVIDED CLEO VISITS OCTAVIAN CLEO VISITS FULVIA AND REALISES SHE IS NUTS FULVIa CONVINCES ATHOTHY

WE DONT WANT TO BE ON HEBNEYS SIDE WE WANT TO WANT TO BE ON HER SIDE NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHY SHE GOES TO SEE OCTAVIAN NOT SURE WE NEED THE FULVIA SCENE WE GET THE IDEA AND CAN CUT STRAIGHT TO CLEO THERE BUT ITS NOT PLAYING LIKE THE MANIPULATION AND CHESS GAME IT SHOULD YET

ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA: 110-165 CLEOS MOCK SURPRISE DINNER AND SEX THE APPROACH EGYPT OCTAVIAN GETS NEWS OF THE ALLIANCE DINNER AND SEX A BATH AND A FOOTRUB ARISONE IS KILLED FULVIA ONTHE SENATE STEPS YOU DONT EVEN KNOW ME OCTAVIAN IN ROME CAESARIAN IS ATTACKED OCTAVIAN THREATENS ANTONY THE GO TO GIZA TO BE SAFE CLEO MENTIONS OCTAVIA ANTONY TELLS OCTAVIAN OF THE MARRIAGE EGYPT BORDERS ARE TESTED ANTONY LOSES BATTLE CLEO VOWS TO HELP HIM BEAT OCTAVIAN CLEO ARRIVES IN ANTICOCH THEY MARRY OARTHIA FALLS BUT HE IS A WINNER IN EGYPT OCTAVIAN ENRAGED AND DECLAIRES WAR CLEO ARRIVES AND THE BATTLE OF ACTIUM WADGES THEY BOTH HEAD TO EGYPT ANTONY IS TOLD OF HER DEATH

HE KILLS HIMSELF SHE MEETS WITH OCTAVIAN RETURNS TO HER PALACE TALKS WITH CAESARIAN HER DEATH

WE CANT KEEP TALKING ABOUT HOW STUPID ANTONY IS I WISH WE COULD PUT BACK THE HANKERSCHIEF HERE DID ARISONE ALWAYS GET KILLED SO CLOSE TO THEM DISCUSSING HER DO WE NEED THE FULVIA SCENE DOES SHE LOVE ANTONY SHE NEEDS TO

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 43November 24, 2021 3:22 AM

Oh sorry guys that didn’t copy and paste the best way! Lol

R40 Fassbender

by Anonymousreply 44November 24, 2021 3:23 AM

[quote] Amy Pascal

and her husband are poison.

by Anonymousreply 45November 24, 2021 3:29 AM

I’m digging but I couldn’t find other emails about the Angelina movie.

I remember some of the writing being really bad. And they were praising it.

I know there was this scene where a peasant with the plague kissed Cleopatra’s hand or something and it made her sick and she spent days fighting the plague in bed and then she summons him back to kiss him on the lips and poison him or something. I don’t know. It was some bullshit that I could see being in an Angelina Jolie movie.

And also the shaved head. I guess Angelina wanted to be bald in the movie cause Egyptians shaved their head. But like 2,000 years before Cleopatra lived lol.

by Anonymousreply 46November 24, 2021 3:34 AM

That cleopatra movie would have been a huge disaster, angelina only wanted that part over vanity, hearing how beautiful she is for 2 hours sounds like such a bore.

by Anonymousreply 47November 24, 2021 4:10 AM

[quote] ngelina only wanted that part over vanity

Vanity probably would've turned down the part given that Cleopatra was a nasty girl, aka a non-Christian.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 48November 24, 2021 4:12 AM

Guys. Guys. Why are you all talking about Angelina? Focus on me. Yes?

by Anonymousreply 49November 24, 2021 4:19 AM

Gal proved it Wonder Woman 1984 that she can’t fucking act.

by Anonymousreply 50November 24, 2021 4:28 AM

[quote]Shouldn't they have cast a woman of color?

Shouldn't they have cast a woman who can act?

by Anonymousreply 51November 24, 2021 4:32 AM

R50 She proved it in every movie she's in she can't act. And patty is a hack.

by Anonymousreply 52November 24, 2021 4:34 AM

R51 R52 Gal as Cleopatra simply has to act imperious and look beautiful. Not much else is required. Although she'll probably throw in a few athletic stunts a la Wonder Woman.

by Anonymousreply 53November 24, 2021 4:38 AM

Casted.

by Anonymousreply 54November 24, 2021 4:50 AM

R53 So basically a remake of the Timothy Dalton movie.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 55November 24, 2021 4:54 AM

I honestly would like to have seen Angie as Cleo with a strong director and stuff lid script.

The British interest in Cleo predates Shakespeare. Chaucer write about her.

by Anonymousreply 56November 24, 2021 5:38 AM

What a fucking joke!

by Anonymousreply 57November 24, 2021 5:42 AM

My favorite dramatization of the Cleopatra- Anthony story is actually in the second season of HBO's Rome. I have no idea how historically accurate it is, but it plays like a fever dream.

by Anonymousreply 58November 24, 2021 6:04 AM

I hope Gal will do a lot of martial arts and fling venomous asps at her attackers.

by Anonymousreply 59November 24, 2021 6:46 AM

r50 this phoned in movie she's in now with the rock and the beady-eyed one is a great example of post-Covid hollywood dreck...a product created by a computer program and marketed for as much global appeal as possible

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 60November 24, 2021 5:36 PM

I think I'll avoid any film with her now. Ive seen her in WW and Red Notice and that's enough.

by Anonymousreply 61November 24, 2021 6:28 PM

[quote]Than they should start

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 62November 24, 2021 10:46 PM

R58 I agree with you. The actress was physically right for the role and had great energy and you got a sense of the decadence, especially toward the end, holed up in the palace with Marc Antony in this hazy fog of drugs, sex, food, luxury, power, and obsessive love.

by Anonymousreply 63November 25, 2021 6:05 AM

[quote] This is terrible. They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman. Gal sucks.

Perhaps when you graduate high school you'll come to understand that big movies need star names to sell tickets so they can make their investment back.

by Anonymousreply 64November 25, 2021 6:13 AM

Cleo wasn't Egyptian. Why do people not get this and keep harping on getting an Eqyptian actress?

by Anonymousreply 65November 25, 2021 6:55 AM

There is a French guy who made a mock documentary of the Julius Caesar/Cleopatra/Mark Anthony story. The actors pose as the characters sitting down for an interview.

Very entertaining and the acting is pretty good.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 66November 25, 2021 9:01 AM

Kind of relieved.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 67December 9, 2021 5:19 AM

What's that old saying? History repeats itself?

by Anonymousreply 68December 9, 2021 11:42 AM

“History never repeats itself, but it does often rhyme.” - Mark Twain

by Anonymousreply 69December 9, 2021 7:17 PM

R65

Because people want a movie with real Egyptian leads.

by Anonymousreply 70December 9, 2021 7:21 PM

Yeah, white people are fascinated by Cleopatra, and why not? She was not only historically remarkable, as the Last Pharoah, but she had the most interesting sex life of any female monarch of note!

I mean, compare her to most of the other ruling queens of history - most of whom dutifully married someone correct and lived lives of private unhappiness, the only other monarch who can compare is Mary Queen of Scots, who had three husbands in rapid succession and who had one of them murdered right in front of her. But Cleopatra fucked the biggest celebrities of the day and married her brother as well, which makes her the Drama Queen Of All Time!

by Anonymousreply 71December 9, 2021 7:22 PM

They only like her because she’s white. There are more interesting Egyptian queens who never get shine like Cleopotra.

by Anonymousreply 72December 9, 2021 7:25 PM

Looks even trashier than the remake.

by Anonymousreply 73December 9, 2021 10:22 PM

Still moving ahead. Most of the time, Cleopatra movies are announced and then fall through.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 74January 6, 2022 1:36 AM

Gal isn't attracting shit. Wonder Woman would have made the same amount of money with any actress in the title role. Actors don't sell these movies.

by Anonymousreply 75January 6, 2022 1:42 AM

I'm a Cleopatra fan and I know this film is going to be SHIT. Two big reasons why: 1: Cleo's story doesn't neatly fit into the constraints of a standard film. It's broad and complex. Two films might work, but that's unfeasible. 2: Second big problem is the very high level of ignorance in the marketplace about who she actually was, what she looked like and why she was a big deal. The extreme end of this is the notion is the increasingly widespread delusion she was black, and more widely, the notion she was ethnically Egyptian. As stated above, she was a Greek. Contemporary images makes this clear. The one Roman painting from her lifetime portrays her as fair skinned and red haired. Her fundamentally Greek identity isn't palatable to a mass audience, which wants to see her portrayed as not only an ethnic Egyptian, but also in the style of an Egyptian from thousands of years prior to her birth!

by Anonymousreply 76January 6, 2022 1:50 AM

Grab that coin, hunny! Hollywood "It Girls" are a dime a dozen and just when you take your eyes off the prize, there's a new girl snatching the spotlight!

by Anonymousreply 77January 6, 2022 2:16 AM

People don't know Cleo was not an indigenous Egyptian, because most basic dumb-fucks get their knowledge of the past not from scholars, but from popular media. Like for example, People magazine (which although a popular culture title, is meant to rigorously fact check) recently matter-of-factly stated Cleo was "a woman of color". There is no evidence of this whatsoever. There is a mountain of clear evidence she was Macedonian Greek. This fact was never controversial until about 50 years ago, when feelings began to become more important than fact.

by Anonymousreply 78January 6, 2022 2:24 AM

You just KNOW this version will be woke as [bold]fuck[/bold].

by Anonymousreply 79January 6, 2022 2:32 AM

" Her fundamentally Greek identity isn't palatable to a mass audience, which wants to see her portrayed as not only an ethnic Egyptian, but also in the style of an Egyptian from thousands of years prior to her birth"

Her fundamentally Greek identity is also a problem for the scriptwriters. I mean she was absolute monarch of Egypt because 200 years earlier her family had conquered the place and ousted the native pharoahs who'd ruled for 5,000 years... and the story is about her trying to keep the Caesars from doing exactly what the Ptolmies had done. Stick to the truth and there's no gut feeling of her fundamental right to rule, particularly if you admit that her ancestors had practiced incest to keep Egyptian DNA out of their bloodline.

So I'd bet real money that the writers invent an Egyptian mother for her, and the screen Cleopatra talks about her "Egyptian and/or African blood". Which is fair enough, it's not known who her mother was, it's possible her mother wasn't actually her father's sister.

by Anonymousreply 80January 6, 2022 2:39 AM

It's fair enough they'd do that from a commercial point of view. It's not highly credible from a historical point of view given the cultural traditions of her family and the likely reality that Cleo was a pale redhead. If there was any blood in her line that wasn't from direct family members, there were tens of thousands of high status Greeks in Alexandria who would have made more likely candidates for genetic interlopers.

by Anonymousreply 81January 6, 2022 2:48 AM

I like Faye Dunaway's version the best.

"TINA! BRING ME THE ASP!"

by Anonymousreply 82January 6, 2022 2:51 AM

The ancient sources state that Cleo was the first in her family line to speak Egyptian, rather than only Greek. As well as showing the separatist tendencies of her family, who were in Egypt for centuries, that clearly implies both her parents were purely Greek speakers.

by Anonymousreply 83January 6, 2022 2:56 AM

Maybe Spielberg will direct and the whole thing will be in Spanish without subtitles.

by Anonymousreply 84January 6, 2022 2:59 AM

I'm just here to say that some of you people have vast and serious knowledge.

by Anonymousreply 85January 6, 2022 3:10 AM

[quote]They only like her because she’s white. There are more interesting Egyptian queens who never get shine like Cleopotra.

Cleopatra had tons of drama in her life and was at a crucial period of history. Her story is epic.

by Anonymousreply 86January 6, 2022 3:11 AM

Cleopatra is the most famous Egyptian queen because her story intersected with that of Caesar, Marc Anthony and Octavian. She survives in detail in the historical record and the cultural imagination of the western world because of this. Not "because she was white". The indigenous Egyptian dynasties predated Rome and therefore don't loom large in the western consciousness. At least not until the age of western archeological discovery in Egypt, when figures like King Tut emerged.

by Anonymousreply 87January 6, 2022 3:18 AM

R31, "Who in the fuck is she sleeping with?? 'With whom is she sleeping?'"

Or would it be "With whom in the fuck is she sleeping?"

by Anonymousreply 88January 6, 2022 3:31 AM

I suspect there will be a lot of contemporary messaging in this movie, with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, in favor of any kind of historical accuracy regarding the sociopolitical culture of the actual ancient world.

by Anonymousreply 89January 6, 2022 3:53 AM

Yes absolutely. You'll have the Greek presence in Alexandria minimised in favour of the Egyptian, and the Romans will be proxies for the age of modern imperialism and racism. Contemporary racial politics will be imposed, with the Romans' whiteness highlighted. You'll have Roman characters mouthing racist attitudes against the older and "more sophisticated" Egyptian culture that simply didn't exist then. The Romans were not racist in the way we understand Racism now. They did not have a concept of whiteness and non whiteness. It'll all be handled with all the subtlety of an axe wound.

by Anonymousreply 90January 6, 2022 4:00 AM

r90 that's exactly what I was thinking. Everything is political now.

by Anonymousreply 91January 6, 2022 4:02 AM

"The Romans were not racist in the way we understand Racism now. They did not have a concept of whiteness and non whiteness."

There was no real correlation between race and social status in the Roman world, slaves could be of any race, as could the poor. Of course nationality mattered, but in Rome, wealth mattered more than nationality. If you were a super-rich Egyptian or Jewish or Gaulish aristocrat, you were accepted into Roman high society, although you weren't accepted as a Roman. Well, until fairly late in the Empire's history anyway, when Rome had assimilated most of Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East. It wasn't true in Cleopatra's time but later, a Roman official from anywhere was still a Roman official.

by Anonymousreply 92January 6, 2022 4:09 AM

This movie is not going to happen. It never happens. There is no audience for this as a theatrical feature. Just wait for a netflix, amazon hulu or peacock to swoop in and pay for it to be a mini-series.

by Anonymousreply 93January 6, 2022 4:31 AM

R79 There’s a lot of historical elements though that can make it “woke as fuck” but the story really is.

There’s a lot of really powerful and ruthless women.

There’s the rivalry with her sister Arsinoe who wanted to be Queen.

Mark Antony’s wife Fulvia was the leader of a Roman mafia and pretty much managed Mark Antony’s political career. Then she fought against Octavian.

The biggest feminist theme was that Cleopatra didn’t die with Mark Antony, she died with the most trusted women in her life.

And finally, out of all her children, it was her daughter Cleopatra Selene who became Queen. The boys died.

So if they’re smart, they’ll tie all of that in. Instead of making it just a love story. Cleopatra could have intentionally made Mark Antony kill himself to make a deal with Octavian.

by Anonymousreply 94January 6, 2022 4:32 AM

R93 I honestly prefer a mini series. If they’re going to tell the whole story from Caesar to her death, it should be a miniseries.

I think an interesting movie would be the last year of Cleopatra and Mark Antony. It would start with Cleopatra arriving back in Egypt after losing the Battle of Actium and the year they spent before they died.

Mark Antony fell into a depression while Cleopatra did everything she could to try and save herself.

People think they lost and the next day, they killer themselves or something. It was a year. And they died about 10-12 days apart from each other. Cleopatra kind of went through hell before she finally killed herself.

Her original plan was to set her mausoleum on fire and burn down with all of Egypt’s treasures she had stashed in there. Then when that failed, she tried to stab herself. Then she was put on house arrest and tried to starve herself and had caught an infection from beating herself up. Her death wasn’t some sexy scene where the snake bit her. She finally ended up poisoning herself.

It would be an interesting movie than a 2 hour rushed through timeline of her story.

by Anonymousreply 95January 6, 2022 4:41 AM

R78 What I’ve also learned is historians refuse to connect the dots because they stick to the facts.

There’s this bullshit going on that she may have been part Egyptian and that her mother was a concubine.

There’s absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest this. It’s a theory created by historians.

Her mother was most likely Cleopatra V. There is no historical documentation as evidence. But Cleopatra V was her father’s wife who disappeared the year Cleopatra was born. It’s pretty obvious she died at childbirth to me.

But they won’t connect those dots. They come up with all sorts of other theories.

If Cleopatra was a bastard, the Romans would have pointed that out. Her father Auletes has the same issue but his mother was most likely his fathers wife but they were divorced. He was a bastard the same way Queen Elizabeth I was a bastard.

by Anonymousreply 96January 6, 2022 4:47 AM

R86 Agreed. She’s one of the first documented women to fight a major war. The Battle of Actium.

And I believe her role was severely downplayed because she had been going to war since her battle with her brother. When she went into exile in Syria, she raised an army.

There was also the Battle of Alexandria. She’s not mentioned at all but she was with Caesar (because he knocked her up during that time period) the whole time. He was in a foreign country, she knew Egypt. There’s no doubt in my mind she helped him. He barley mentioned her in his book about it.

by Anonymousreply 97January 6, 2022 4:58 AM

I think she's beautiful but she is a horrible actress and I can't stand her shit eating grin. It's fucking annoying as fuck.

by Anonymousreply 98January 6, 2022 5:00 AM

I recommend Stacy Schiff’s book.

One thing I hope they get right is Caesar most likely seduced Cleopatra.

He was an older man who fucked everything. He was the Queen of Bithynia!

Cleopatra was a 20 year-old virgin who was in fear of her life when she met him.

The idea that she seduced him doesn’t add up.

by Anonymousreply 99January 6, 2022 5:01 AM

The real Cleo was not classically beautiful, so Gal is not historically accurate casting. That's another lie that the public will demand from film along with a Nefertit headdress and a black bob hairdo. They'll want Cleo with model good looks and extreme sexuality.

by Anonymousreply 100January 6, 2022 5:04 AM

Another movie I will be avoiding. The woman cannot act to save her life. Wonder Woman 2 was a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 101January 6, 2022 5:05 AM

Sorry I’m obsessed. One more.

I would hope they would depict Rome in a different way.

Cicero was hilarious. I’ve read several books about Cleopatra and he’s always a favorite.

He hated her because when she first came to Rome, she said she would bring him books he wanted from the Library of Alexandria.

And then on her second visit to Rome, she forgot to bring them. After that, he said in a letter that he detested her and that she was arrogant. Lol.

Also, the whole story of Herod the Great. Mark Antony wanted to fuck Herod’s brother-in-law Aristobulus who apparently was a hot twink and Herod grew jealous so his mother-in-law tried to save him. She contacted Cleopatra who set up a fleet for them and they were going to hide in coffins and head to Egypt. Herod found out and axed the plans. He had Aristobulus drowned.

by Anonymousreply 102January 6, 2022 5:09 AM

R100 Right.

Cleopatra to the public is Angelina Jolie dressed like Nefertiti with the Dracula accent she used in “Alexander”.

by Anonymousreply 103January 6, 2022 5:10 AM

Love this.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 104January 6, 2022 5:14 AM

The whole film should be scrapped with the budget directed towards an Elagabalus feature. He was the killer twink from hell - he was definitely voraciously homosexual with possible trans tendencies. He had the empire scoured for men with freakishly giant penises who'd be imported to service him. He turned the palace into a brothel and worked as a prostitute.

by Anonymousreply 105January 6, 2022 5:15 AM

R105 Or Nero and Sporus.

I always felt bad for Sporus.

by Anonymousreply 106January 6, 2022 5:21 AM

Of course the biggest problem with this film is the fact they hired the truly awful Gal Gadot to star in it.

She's a terrible actresss.

by Anonymousreply 107January 6, 2022 5:51 AM

"Cleopatra was a 20 year-old virgin who was in fear of her life when she met him. (Julius Caesar)"

A virgin? She'd been married twice by then! To two of her brothers!

Yes, she had been married to her younger brothers Ptolmey XIII and Ptolmey XIV for three years each, neither marriage had produced children. The boys were 14 or 15 when they died, so it's possible the marriages had been consummated, a horrible thought but that's how the Egyptian elite did things.

by Anonymousreply 108January 6, 2022 5:52 AM

R108 Cleopatra married Ptolmey XIV as part of the deal with Caesar after the Alexandria War.

Historians say she married Ptolmey XIII but they also state because of the turmoil within the rulership, they never got around to getting married.

When Auletes died, he left them as co-rulers in his will so they both had claim to the throne.

Cleopatra had no interest in them. When she was took over after her father died, she cut Ptolemy XIII out and he wasn’t even acknowledged in official documents. When his guardians took over and sent her into exile, they removed her from official documents.

After Caesar was assassinated, one of the first things she did was kill Ptolemy XIV because she no longer had to hold up the deal she made with him.

There was no tradition they had to consummate their marriage. Some of the incestuous Ptolemaic marriages produced no children.

It wasn’t about breeding incestuous children, it was about power. There was no hierarchy in the family succession.

All historians state she was most likely a virgin.

by Anonymousreply 109January 6, 2022 6:59 AM

Notice how in the video above, the narrator says she favors the view Cleopatra had dark hair and eyes, despite there being exactly zero contemporary depictions of her looking like this. She then shows four ancient paintings and a cameo all showing Cleo with red hair, and presents a reconstruction of her with red hair almost regretfully. This is how modern politics makes people stupid.

by Anonymousreply 110January 6, 2022 7:02 AM

Ptolemaic marriages were more about alliances within the family. They required two rulers.

Like when Cleopatra’s father was exiled to Rome, his eldest daughter Berenice took the throne and she was co-ruler with her stepmother until she poisoned her.

Cleopatra was co-ruler with her father a year before he died. She made Ceasarion co-ruler after she killed her last brother.

So the brother-sister marriages are kind of exaggerated. There were a few brother and sister marriages that produced children but it was a lot of cousins too. And there were other types of incest marriages like uncle and niece but they didn’t have kids. It was just about being co-rulers.

by Anonymousreply 111January 6, 2022 7:09 AM

And I think Cleopatra was most likely beautiful.

The whole idea she was ugly came from the BBC who had found her coins.

That famous ugly coin is actually her father. What happened was when he died and she transitioned over, all the statues that were being built of him and coins and such, she quickly had them transformed into her. So the coin is basically his face with her hair.

Because in her later coins, she looks normal.

by Anonymousreply 112January 6, 2022 7:29 AM

R73 which remake? 1934 or1963?

by Anonymousreply 113January 6, 2022 9:26 AM

Gal has proven herself to be a dodo and yet another tone deaf narcissist. Particularly her participation in that pathetically inappropriate post-COVID 19 Instagram singing circa April 2020. Then that colossal dud WW1984 fell on the world like a stale turd. Her stardom will never again reach its pre-COVID level.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 114January 6, 2022 10:09 AM

[quote]Particularly her participation in that pathetically inappropriate post-COVID 19 Instagram singing circa April 2020..

What's the story?

by Anonymousreply 115January 6, 2022 10:18 AM

Israeli Americans are uniquely arrogant, entitled and uneducated. They exploit this country for their benefit while only pledging allegiance to their beloved Israel. Plus a lot of them are pro-Trump, anti-vaxx, and anti-higher education.

by Anonymousreply 116January 6, 2022 10:28 AM

Americans think Cleopatra was a dark-haired and possibly dark-skinned, stunningly hot woman wearing a black bob wig and exotically immodest clothes, maybe a slutty gold boob tube. Think what you might see depicted on a poker machine. She was actually a big nosed, relatively unexceptional-looking (although not unattractive) pale skinned redheaded Macedonian woman wearing a diadem on her head, a melon bun hairdo, and relatively modest long Greek-style robes. The studio will go with the bullshit over the truth, because the public is uneducated and wants to stay that way

by Anonymousreply 117January 6, 2022 10:34 AM

[quote]I would love to see Arsinoe on screen.

Been done.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 118January 6, 2022 10:40 AM

R115 Actress Gal Gadot has said a viral video she and some fellow Hollywood stars made at the beginning of the pandemic was "in poor taste". The video saw the 36-year-old partner with fellow actors who each sang a line from John Lennon's 1971 single Imagine. Jamie Dornan, Kristen Wiig and Will Ferrell took part in the stunt, which was widely mocked on social media. Gadot told InStyle she had had "all pure intentions, but sometimes you don't hit the bullseye".

When the video was released, it was criticised by fans as being tone deaf and cringe-worthy. At a time when many were distressed by the outbreak of coronavirus, many said A-list stars recording videos in their mansions was out of touch.

Wonder Woman star Gadot said that, with hindsight, the video was "premature". "I was calling Kristen [Wiig] and I was like, 'Listen, I want to do this thing,'" the actress explained. "The pandemic was in Europe and Israel before it came [to the US] in the same way. "I was seeing where everything was headed. But [the video] was premature. It wasn't the right timing, and it wasn't the right thing. It was in poor taste.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 119January 6, 2022 11:08 AM

R117 true that Cleopatra, for the most part, dressed in the Greek-influenced Roman styles of the day, but she also donned traditional Egyptian garb for certain holidays and occasions. In particular, she loved dressing up as her idol Isis, goddess of healing/magic. In fact, Cleopatra was the first/only one of her family to bother to learn the Egyptian language/ways. The Ptolemys had ruled Egypt for three hundred years and Cleopatra was the last Pharaoh, so that should tell you how little they thought of Egyptian culture.

by Anonymousreply 120January 6, 2022 11:11 AM

The lunatic on this thread seems to be self-mummified.

by Anonymousreply 121January 6, 2022 12:46 PM

This deserves to be a lavish series on a streaming service. You could get at least two seasons out of it. A film isn't going to work, as Liz found out. The story is too big and complex for that compressed timeframe. And I think the general public is much more ignorant about classical history now than it was 50 years ago. Studios will also be wary of attracting parasitic activist attention, with various morons going off trying to make the film makers submit to their ideological narratives. A very basic indicator of the general ignorance out there is the widespread belief that Cleo was Egyptian and not Greek. That's rock bottom historical ignorance.

by Anonymousreply 122January 11, 2022 10:11 PM

I thought Gaga was cast as Cleo?

by Anonymousreply 123January 11, 2022 10:16 PM

True r122. People don't know shit about history these days, and there is also this annoying trend to try and make history fit into contemporary narratives.

by Anonymousreply 124January 11, 2022 10:57 PM

It's not at all clear, r105, but Elagabalus might be a descendant of Cleopatra, although it's tenuous. The last known descendant of Cleopatra was Gaius Julius Alexio, the Priest-King of Emesa, in Syria. Elababalus begins life as the High Priest of the Emesene cult of Elababul, a hereditary position. By then, the "kingdom" had been absorbed into the Empire, and the King part was gone, but I assume there's still a connection to the Emesene dynasty.

Wild speculation, but I kind of like the idea of the Egyptian Temptress and the ultimate Voracious Bottom having a connection.

by Anonymousreply 125January 11, 2022 11:02 PM

Macedonians look pretty damn white to me.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 126January 11, 2022 11:07 PM

Oh, hell, I bet a lot of Egyptians look pretty damn white too. We are so silly about skin color, though it's such a stupid fucking thing for centuries now that it will probably never stop.

by Anonymousreply 127January 11, 2022 11:13 PM

R126, lol, most Macedonians don't look like that

by Anonymousreply 128January 11, 2022 11:21 PM

R122 is very concerned about "activists" but not about high school or Bible College dropouts like Lauren Boebert or Madison Cawthorn

by Anonymousreply 129January 11, 2022 11:22 PM

R112 just because you want to picture her as beautiful doesn't mean she was

by Anonymousreply 130January 11, 2022 11:23 PM

r128 what do "most" Macedonians look like?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 131January 11, 2022 11:26 PM

Well there's probably some here. Don't they run Troll farms? So how about it, Macedonians. How white are you bitches?

by Anonymousreply 132January 11, 2022 11:27 PM

These Macedonian dudes look pretty white.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 133January 11, 2022 11:28 PM

r129 that's not who the shit stirrers are when it comes to Cleopatra.

by Anonymousreply 134January 11, 2022 11:29 PM

Ancient Egyptians were Mediterranean and so were the Ancient Greeks. So they skin tones could range from very fair to very dark with olive skin being the most common. The urban areas of the Ancient Mediterranean were naturally very diverse though due to being major trading ports.

Cleopatra would look like the girl who's family owns the local Greek deli or pastry shop. Supposedly, she was not that beautiful but intelligent and charming. So Liz Taylor didn't fit.

by Anonymousreply 135January 11, 2022 11:31 PM

Ancient Greeks were more fair than modern Greeks.

by Anonymousreply 136January 11, 2022 11:32 PM

R136 No they really weren't. Many modern Greeks are fair in tone too but many have very dark sometimes curly hair and prominent noses. Blond hair and blue eyes exist but its less common than in Northern Europe. The population of Ancient Greece was not displaced, modern Greeks are the same people.

by Anonymousreply 137January 11, 2022 11:35 PM

Modern Greeks have Turkish blood, they don't look the same as they did in ancient times. I thought this was common knowledge.

by Anonymousreply 138January 11, 2022 11:37 PM

R138 Majority of Greeks I've met have the same features of Ancient Greek statues, drawings and frescos. Stout bodies, curly hair, hairy bodies and prominent noses and lips. Obviously not as beautiful because those artistic depictions were idealized often of royalty and gods. Just like how most Americans don't look like Hollywood stars.

Turks are also Mediterranean, they are not that much darker and unless every Turk was having sex with every single Greek that would not alter the entire phenotype of millions of people. Modern populations are not different from ancient because most people stayed close to their villages for thousands of years due to the difficulty of travel. Having migrations or even conquest cannot completely alter the DNA of the predominant population. Minority groups on the other hand are always more mixed especially marginalized.

by Anonymousreply 139January 11, 2022 11:42 PM

r139 the Ottomans slaughtered many Greeks and there were a lot of rapes. This is pretty well known.

by Anonymousreply 140January 11, 2022 11:45 PM

R140 Obviously they didn't slaughter everyone because the language spoken in Greece is related to Ancient Greek and most Greeks look Mediterranean and have a lot of Minoan and Mycenaean DNA. Of course they would resemble countries like Turkey that neighbor them than not? Why would the indigenous people in a country closer to the equator and closer to the Levant look Northern European with blond hair, pale skin and blue eyes? Wouldn't that be unfavorable for a hotter climate? And Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are farther from the equator and Middle East than Greece is, so it would make more sense for them to be fairer than Greeks.

by Anonymousreply 141January 11, 2022 11:51 PM

r141 just stop.

by Anonymousreply 142January 11, 2022 11:53 PM

R142 I'm sorry Fuhrer. The master race of Ancient Greece must be tall, pale and blue-eyed. They can't be olive-skinned, husky people with mostly brown eyes and black curly hair despite being in a hotter climate and closer to the Middle East and North Africa.

by Anonymousreply 143January 11, 2022 11:55 PM

[quote]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra Movie Script Is Complete Shit

There! Finished it for you, OP!

by Anonymousreply 144January 11, 2022 11:56 PM

So anyway, about Cleopatra's mixed-race kids, or whatever they were. I think it's kind of obnoxious that when it's all done, they stick Octavian's sister, Octavia, with Cleopatra and Antony's kids. I mean, that son of a bitch abandons her and their daughters to run off and fuck this Egyptian whore and she winds up with the kids?

by Anonymousreply 145January 11, 2022 11:58 PM

r143 that's not what was said. You're projecting. Ancient Greeks were more fair, nobody said they were "Aryan." The Ottoman Turks occupied Greece for centuries and killed/raped many Greeks. As a result, modern Greeks are more swarthy than their ancient ancestors. This is common knowledge, I thought.

Furthermore, there weren't that many Greeks to begin with. It wasn't a very populous country.

by Anonymousreply 146January 11, 2022 11:58 PM

r145 shit like that happens to this very day. Extended family members raise the kids of their relatives.

by Anonymousreply 147January 11, 2022 11:59 PM

Well, that's one thing, r147. But how many exwives are raising their husband's bastards. It's one thing to stick them with grandma, but seriously. Hey honey, sorry I wanted to fuck this other ho, but here's her kids for you to raise.

by Anonymousreply 148January 12, 2022 12:01 AM

R146 So the Ancient Greeks just looked more like French, Italians, Albanians, Portuguese and Spanish prior to the Ottoman occupation? Maybe it's me but most people would not tell the difference between a modern Greek and other Southern Europeans.

by Anonymousreply 149January 12, 2022 12:02 AM

Lord.

I am not inferring anything substantive about what "African DNA" means other than the claim made here that this particular haplotype apparently originating in North Africa populated Europe leaving the characteristics shown here.

Just interesting. Qualitatively. A bit.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 150January 12, 2022 12:04 AM

Quentin Tarantino explained the Southern European/Sicilian thing in True Romance.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 151January 12, 2022 12:05 AM

I was hoping for something more like this:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 152January 12, 2022 12:08 AM

People seem to assume because a group invades another country and rules over that region that every single person is slaughtered and raped and the DNA is massively altered. Not true. That conquering group usually just acts a ruling class and if they are smart they would avoid using too much violence and find ways to compromise. Genocides are attempted by usually do not work unless the population is so tiny or there is a disease to help, it only ever seemed to worked on island tribes like the Caribs or Tasmanians. The most successful and long-running empires create a system that keeps the subjected group complicit enough to not want to rebel. Also Turkey and Greece are close to one another and they've always shared DNA due to that fact.

Most Greeks I've met are not that dark and they do not look nonwhite. Some are olive, some are pale and some are dark just like any other Southern European group. It makes no sense to assume they would be any more pale because the location of Greece would not typically favor an indigenous population of mostly pale-skinned individuals. Pale skin and light hair and eyes are recessive traits and were idealized because they were rare. Ancient Greek art was the equivalent of Hollywood and featured beautiful people and idealized features but they still looked Mediterranean. Obviously most real Greeks would not look that beautiful and perfect.

According to this article. Modern Greeks do share most of their genes with Ancient Greeks and the outside component actually comes from Eastern Europeans. Most Ancient Greeks had brown hair and brown eyes like modern Greeks do.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 153January 12, 2022 12:29 AM

r153 lots of Turkish blood in modern Greeks. Remember, the Ottomans occupied Greece for centuries. They mixed with Greeks, they weren't just a ruling class.

by Anonymousreply 154January 12, 2022 12:31 AM

The Turks were also large scale settler colonists. They had harems, and had a sexual economy based on conquest. Non-Muslim women were captured and traded as sexual concubines on a large scale.

by Anonymousreply 155January 12, 2022 1:25 AM

Tthe reconstructed face of Mark Anthony looks more like that of Raul Arevalo, a Spanish actor.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 156January 12, 2022 1:44 AM

Artist Shows How Roman Emperors Looked In Real Life By Using Facial Reconstruction, AI, And Photoshop

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 157January 12, 2022 1:49 AM

[quote] Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut.

Why?

by Anonymousreply 158January 12, 2022 1:52 AM

Whatever Greeks as a population looked like then and now is pretty much irrelevant when we have reliable paintings and other representations of famous Macedonian Greeks at the time. Alexander was consistently depicted as blonde. Cleopatra was consistently depicted as a pale skinned redhead. This is not up for debate, all serious classical scholars accept this reality. It really doesn't matter if ideologues or pop culture morons like People magazine "feel like" she was "a woman of color".

by Anonymousreply 159January 12, 2022 6:33 AM

R157, all those nice reconstructions but not one of hot DL fave Elagabulus?

by Anonymousreply 160January 12, 2022 8:02 AM

Lady Gaga could have added a musical element to Cleo, that Jolie or Gadot could not.

by Anonymousreply 161January 12, 2022 11:43 AM

Just as long as Gal doesn't sing "Imagine!"

by Anonymousreply 162January 12, 2022 11:49 AM

Macedonians are from the Northern region so it makes sense they would have more incidents of fairer hair plus the influence of Slavic tribes.

by Anonymousreply 163January 12, 2022 12:50 PM

"But how many exwives are raising their husband's bastards."

Oh, it's not like she'd have anything to do with the little bastards herself! "Raising" her ex-husband's children mean hiring, excuse me, buying an extra nanny. Because domestic labor including child care was done by slaves.

If she agreed to raise her ex-husband's bastards, it might have been because it was good for her image, and it certainly gave her a couple of interesting political pawns to use as her own. Women didn't have many rights in general in ancient Rome, but the women from the top families could be major power brokers, and one of the ways they exercised power was yes, to use everyone in the extended family as pawns. By arranging marriages and using connections, they could push the careers of individual family members and advance the interest of the family as a whole, and yes, orphans could be useful to a person like that. They could be kept tied to their guardian until she wanted to use them for her own purposes, if she was the kind of power broker woman that I'm talking about. You know, like Elagabalus's grandmother, the one who pushed her teen grandson onto the imperial throne, and changed him out for a different grandson when he became too much trouble?

by Anonymousreply 164January 13, 2022 10:33 PM

Gal is absolutely gorgeous

by Anonymousreply 165January 13, 2022 10:44 PM

Lynda Carter was even more gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 166January 13, 2022 11:08 PM

The only real Wonder Woman, Miss Cathy Lee Crosby, should play Cleoptra.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 167January 18, 2022 7:15 PM

yawn

by Anonymousreply 168January 18, 2022 7:23 PM

I’m wondering if Gal has the same clout as Liz to seek a million dollar salary as lead in Cleopatra. I know Wonder Woman has made her relatively famous, but this role could make her a star.

by Anonymousreply 169January 18, 2022 7:57 PM

A million dollars? That's what the script girl will make this time around.

No, Gal is not as big a star as Liz was in 1960 but she'll make plenty of dough if the movie sells.

by Anonymousreply 170January 18, 2022 8:03 PM

I'll be surprised if this goes ahead now. Gal's star has dimmed slightly, the original director, whose project this was, is not a hot thing anymore and is off the project, COVID has made blockbusters a hard prospect, and the subject matter doesn't lend itself to a dumb mass audience. Then add in the political problems we have now with telling the truth about history. Cleopatra was neither black nor an indigenous Egyptian but that won't stop idiot activists from kicking up a stink.

by Anonymousreply 171January 18, 2022 9:07 PM

The only reason the '63 Cleo eventually recouped its investment was the Taylor-Burton scandal. If it hadn't had that, it probably would have double-bombed at the BO.

What dirt does this new version have to offer?

by Anonymousreply 172January 19, 2022 5:02 PM

Gal Gadot looks like a transvestite.

by Anonymousreply 173January 19, 2022 5:25 PM

I think a script based on the making of the Taylor/Burton film Cleopatra would be more interesting.

by Anonymousreply 174January 19, 2022 5:30 PM

[quote]Cleopatra wasn’t blood Egyptian. She was Greek.

She was NOT Greek, she was Macedonian!

by Anonymousreply 175January 19, 2022 5:32 PM

And she was a hook-nosed geek, not a chiseled Israeli supermodel.

by Anonymousreply 176January 19, 2022 5:39 PM

And now Gal has been announced as starring in a remake of “To Catch a Thief.”

How much ya wanna bet she’ll be playing the Cary Grant role!

Talk about rewrites!

by Anonymousreply 177January 20, 2022 8:05 PM

Cleopatra resembled a toney Connecticut suburb yoga frau in the yogurt aisle at Whole Foods!?

by Anonymousreply 178January 21, 2022 2:12 AM

r178 Gal Gadot does not look like one of those women, believe me.

by Anonymousreply 179January 21, 2022 2:18 AM

R145 I think it was a thing. Caesar executed Juba I and then brought his son back to Rome as a prisoner and then adopted him.

And it wasn’t for long. Octavia had Cleopatra Selene marry Juba II when she was 15 so the kids were probably only in the house for a few years lol.

We don’t know what happened to the sons Alexander and Ptolemy. They either died in Rome from an illnesses as children or they went with Selene to Mauretania and lived to be adults.

by Anonymousreply 180January 21, 2022 2:36 AM

Someone had pointed this out in another thread (I think) but Alba Flores would be a perfect Cleopatra as she is the closest person I’ve seen to resembling the statue.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 181January 21, 2022 2:40 AM

The woman who played her in HBO series Rome actually looked incredibly like her, in terms of facial features. The colouring was off though. As far as I'm aware Cleo's never been played a red head. Gingerphobia or ignorance?

by Anonymousreply 182January 21, 2022 6:25 AM

Historical accounts say that Cleopatra did have red hair.

by Anonymousreply 183January 21, 2022 6:38 AM

[quote] Gal Gadot looks like a transvestite.

Agree. There were certain scenes in Wonder Woman (especially 1984) where I swear I was watching a man in drag.

by Anonymousreply 184January 22, 2022 2:45 PM

This Cleopatra (the seventh) was greek/macedonian and she didn't even speak the native language, so it's definitely okay that she's played by a someone with Caucasian features. Egypt was way past it's prime while she was queen. And Egypt is really just a pretty backdrop to this fascinating story of romance and war. I think we should make a movie about a real Coptic Egyptian queen though, like Nefertiti, or Hatshepsut. They were actually successful at their jobs, and they were brown skin girls <3

by Anonymousreply 185January 22, 2022 3:20 PM

"Agree. There were certain scenes in Wonder Woman (especially 1984) where I swear I was watching a man in drag."

That was okay with me, because Wonder Woman was always both masculine and feminine, I mean in the movie she both led armies and cooed over babies.

But that ambiguity is from the comics, I mean she's always been feminine enough to have big boobs and big hair, but she's also a big strong muscular person who could punch your teeth in even if she was human. I guess you could say she always been a bit androgynous in a fully adult way, with adult boobs and muscles together, instead of looking like the traditional androgynous idea of a teen boy in drag.

by Anonymousreply 186January 22, 2022 11:38 PM

Wonder Woman is an Amazon and Amazons are tall, muscular, big-titted women.

by Anonymousreply 187January 22, 2022 11:49 PM

Gaga has booked Cabaret, win to Gaga. Gal cannot sing.

by Anonymousreply 188January 23, 2022 1:17 AM

Good for Gaga. I was never fond of the Fosse film. I hope they don't just remake the movie, that they go back to the play this time and bring out all the other characters.

by Anonymousreply 189January 28, 2022 7:37 PM

Bumping this thread again for more Cleopatra talk from another thread.

It dawned on me why her suicide makes so much sense. She most likely witnessed her oldest sister getting publicly beheaded and her youngest sister being paraded through Caesar’s parade. She didn’t want to be third.

by Anonymousreply 190March 15, 2022 4:25 AM

[quote] She didn’t want to be third.

She was the seventh, Cleopatra VII Philopator more precisely.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 191March 15, 2022 4:27 AM

Augustus probably wouldn't have treated her all that badly if she were captured. Sure, he'd have deposed her, and paraded her through the streets of Rome, but Antony was his real enemy. Like as not, Cleo wouldn't have been executed or thrown in a windowless dungeon to rot in the dark, but kept in fairly luxurious captivity in exile.

Some important prisoners were sent to live on isolated islands with nothing to do, a hut on a barren rock if the Emperor was seriously pissed, or a villa on a nice island if not. But that wouldn't do for the ex-queen of a seafaring people, more likely she'd have been sent to an isolated villa or temple in the country, where she was constantly watched and had nothing to do. But like Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe, who spent years of exiles living with the priestesses in the Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, she may have been kept alive and treated with dignity in case she might prove useful to the Empire. But if Cleopatra would rather have taken a quick way out rather than live as a captive, that was up to her.

by Anonymousreply 192March 15, 2022 7:16 AM

[quote]They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman.

Egyptians and Jewish people are essentially genetically identical. Jewish people probably come from Egypt. Casting is appropriate.

by Anonymousreply 193March 15, 2022 10:16 AM

Cleopatra was Greek/Macedonian not Egyptian by descent.

by Anonymousreply 194March 15, 2022 10:21 AM

[quote] They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman.

It's ENTERTAINMENT for Chrissake. It's not real life.

by Anonymousreply 195March 17, 2022 5:00 PM

[quote]Will they get any actual Egyptian actors to play Egyptians in the film? I'm looking at you Gods of Egypt.

No, they only seem to manage to find Middle Eastern people when they want to cast terrorists, but we're not supposed to say certain things about Hollywood. Biblical films and the like, they put the callback sheet away for Arabs.

[quote]It's ENTERTAINMENT for Chrissake. It's not real life.

Sure, I'll think about that as I see idiots go ballistic over films with spaceships and dragons having the audacity to cast non-white people. Funny how you only manage to say this shit when someone wonders why a non-white person wasn't cast...esp., in something based on actual history rather than nonsense with unicorns, goblins and other mythical crap.

by Anonymousreply 196March 17, 2022 5:08 PM

[quote] No, they only seem to manage to find Middle Eastern people when they want to cast terrorists, but we're not supposed to say certain things about Hollywood. Biblical films and the like, they put the callback sheet away for Arabs.

Apparently you haven't watched any films since True Lies. Time to catch up, hon.

by Anonymousreply 197March 17, 2022 5:24 PM

R71 Catherine the Great got to fuck her pick of the top hottest military guys as well as foreign royals (she had a child with the king of Poland)

Not many Queens had such a great sex life.

by Anonymousreply 198March 17, 2022 5:27 PM

At least Brenton Thwaites was appropriately cast in Gods of Egypt.

by Anonymousreply 199March 17, 2022 5:28 PM

[quote]Apparently you haven't watched any films since True Lies. Time to catch up, hon.

Since they're still using bullshit imagery of Jesus Christ alone in films, I'm all caught up.

by Anonymousreply 200March 17, 2022 5:41 PM

R191 I meant third daughter of Auletes to be publicly shamed and executed.

She most likely watched her sister Berenice get beheaded in Egypt and she was definitely there when Arsinoe was paraded through Rome.

by Anonymousreply 201March 17, 2022 6:14 PM

[quote] Since they're still using bullshit imagery of Jesus Christ alone in films, I'm all caught up.

Maybe you should stop watching Christian movies. There's a whole other world out there. Live!

by Anonymousreply 202March 17, 2022 6:26 PM

R192 Yeah I don’t think he’d have executed her either. I think she just couldn’t bear the walk of shame.

Her kids were in his parade and he made Selene became a queen of Mauretania and he took no issue with her turning it into a little Alexandria.

I think Selene moved Cleopatra and Antony were to Mauretania. When Emperors visited Egypt, they would do a Mark Anthony tour and it was never mentioned they visited his tomb, which means it wasn’t there.

by Anonymousreply 203March 17, 2022 10:35 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!