Any good recommendations for modern poetry?
Are you a fan of poetry?
|by Anonymous||reply 143||November 30, 2021 2:29 AM|
Try Wislawa Szymborska. To-the-point, no bullshit, and remarkably perceptive and intelligent.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||November 21, 2021 11:47 PM|
There was a young fellow named Tucker
Who, instructing a novice cocksucker,
Said, "Don't blow out your lips
Like an elephant's hips;
The boys like it best when you pucker."
|by Anonymous||reply 2||November 21, 2021 11:49 PM|
I liked Matt Rasmussen's 'Black Aperture.' Dark stuff (mainly about his brother's suicide) though.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||November 21, 2021 11:52 PM|
This includes a lot of the Beat Poets:
|by Anonymous||reply 4||November 22, 2021 12:07 AM|
Although I can only read in translation, Neruda is my favorite.
"Love is so short, forgetting is so long."
|by Anonymous||reply 5||November 22, 2021 12:09 AM|
I will get crucified here but Camille Paglia’s collection of the 50 most seminal poems is a great intro. It’s called Break, Blow and something.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||November 22, 2021 12:20 AM|
I’ll never forget Dr Fucks
|by Anonymous||reply 7||November 22, 2021 12:38 AM|
R6 where can I find it?
|by Anonymous||reply 8||November 22, 2021 10:03 PM|
I like didactic poetry like r2.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||November 22, 2021 10:05 PM|
Frederick Seidel and Ben Lerner are two contemporary poets worth reading.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||November 22, 2021 10:55 PM|
Also Louise Gluck who won the Nobel prize recently
|by Anonymous||reply 11||November 22, 2021 10:58 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 12||November 22, 2021 11:07 PM|
Have you read Dr Fucks?
|by Anonymous||reply 13||November 22, 2021 11:10 PM|
Anything by Lester Jacobs
|by Anonymous||reply 14||November 22, 2021 11:28 PM|
R6 The title is Break, Blow, Burn after lines in John Donne's Holy Sonnet XIV.
I have always had a fondness for DH Lawrence's Birds, Beasts, Flowers (1923).
James Merrill is a great poet who happens to be gay. Walt Whitman is transcendent. Auden, Spender, Plath, Hughes are worthies as is Gluck as someone mentioned above.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||November 22, 2021 11:28 PM|
Relevant reading during the current political/societal nightmare we've been experiencing for far too long now. She calls the United States on the carpet, laying down the facts of the matter. She cites its willful, shameless hypocrisy and pleads with it to live up to all its grandiose hype.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||November 22, 2021 11:38 PM|
Is Fanny Howe contemporary? I think she's still living. He work can be hard to dig through, but I always feel like I get a little wisdom out of it.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||November 23, 2021 12:24 AM|
I think of Levine's "What Work Is" so often these days. All these wannabe revolutionaries and rich people larping as oppressed.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||November 23, 2021 12:30 AM|
Marianne Moore (family), May Sarton (family), Mary Oliver (family)
Sarton for form--she is only a minor poet; Moore for greatness; Oliver for wisdom and sensibility.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||November 23, 2021 2:25 AM|
Ah, you beat me to it, R19. I adore Mary Oliver. When Death Comes is my favorite.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||November 23, 2021 2:29 AM|
Natalie Diaz is pretty trippy and out there.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||November 23, 2021 4:06 AM|
Henri Cole. Gay poet. He writes about loneliness, men, animals, memory, nature. Most famous book is probably Pierce the Skin.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||November 23, 2021 4:08 AM|
Jericho Brown is a gorgeous gay poet. His "Bullet Points" has been shared a lot recently.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||November 23, 2021 4:17 AM|
Another one from Jericho Brown, this one about Grindr.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||November 23, 2021 4:20 AM|
R1 thinks she knows what poetry is.
R1 is a philistine cunt.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||November 23, 2021 4:24 AM|
And one more poet, Sarah Howe. Here's one for our evening punctualist.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||November 23, 2021 4:25 AM|
And one more from Sarah Howe...
|by Anonymous||reply 27||November 23, 2021 4:40 AM|
Elizabeth Bishop is probably one on the greatest poets of the last century. Derek Walcott, Ted Hughes and Anne Carson are favorites of mine too but start with Bishop.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||November 23, 2021 4:50 AM|
One of my favorite poems is by Louise Gluck, a short prayer poem, deep daily love.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||November 23, 2021 4:58 AM|
Great lesbian poet Adrienne Rich. XVII of her 21 love poems is my favorite.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||November 23, 2021 5:09 AM|
Patricia Lockwood is a young poet who will probably win a Nobel or MacArthur someday and she never went to college and her father is a Catholic priest through some weird loophole.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||November 23, 2021 5:25 AM|
No crucifixion here, R6, you're right. Poetry is now thought of as this only-for-intellectuals thing, like particle physics but the arts version, and I recommend that book to everyone who thinks they won't/can't "understand" poetry.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||November 23, 2021 6:43 AM|
David Berman. He was so good he killed himself.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||November 23, 2021 6:46 AM|
[quote] through some weird loophole
R31 What do you mean 'loophole'?
|by Anonymous||reply 34||November 23, 2021 7:56 AM|
The spring has sprung, the grass iz riz
I wonder where dem boidies iz
|by Anonymous||reply 35||November 23, 2021 8:09 AM|
Adam had 'em
|by Anonymous||reply 36||November 23, 2021 8:10 AM|
There is a modern poetry scene, that isn't corny "spoken word" bullshit, mostly in Eastern Europe. In the USA, it's pretty grim. Americans don't read easily accessible airport fiction, so poetry is something they equate with a "hip" cool high school teacher who wanted to diddle them.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||November 23, 2021 8:16 AM|
Everyone of note says Poetry died a century ago.
It is no longer a valid art form. It is comatose.
It is merely a refuge for the unlovable.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||November 23, 2021 8:22 AM|
Denise Duhamel is one of my favorites.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||November 23, 2021 8:24 AM|
r38 Ouch. Also, was that a fucking Haiku? It was, wasn't it? Scoundrel.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||November 23, 2021 8:31 AM|
Put your finger up your bum
if you're gay it will make you come
|by Anonymous||reply 41||November 23, 2021 8:32 AM|
Chase Twichell wrote 'Erotic Energy,' which is the truest expression of what it is to experience the end of girlhood that I have ever read. I apologise if I screw up the formatting here.
Don't tell me we're not like plants,
sending out a shoot when we need to,
or spikes, poisonous oils, or flowers.
Come to me but only when I say,
that's how plants announce
the rules of propagation.
Even children know this. You can
see them imitating all the moves
with their bright plastic toys.
So that, years later, at the moment
the girl's body finally says yes
to the end of childhood,
a green pail with an orange shovel
will appear in her mind like a tropical
blossom she has never seen before.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||November 23, 2021 8:59 AM|
Goddamnit I screwed up the formatting.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||November 23, 2021 9:01 AM|
oh FFS r42 no one on here gives a fuck about girlhood
|by Anonymous||reply 44||November 23, 2021 9:02 AM|
In 2 other threads people are being exceptionally nice to me, R44. You have rebalanced the DL universe.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||November 23, 2021 9:13 AM|
I enjoyed "DMZ Colony" by Don Mee Choi a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||November 23, 2021 9:15 AM|
R37 Like every other art in the U.S., wealthy have colonized it and jealously guard it like little golems. That's why we have so many poets and most of them are hot garbage.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||November 23, 2021 9:35 AM|
[quote] so many poets and most of them are hot garbage.
Are you talking about me? Gazed-upon but unread.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||November 23, 2021 9:39 AM|
Reginald Dwayne Betts. Inner city Baltimore. In prison for car jacking at 16. Became a poet. Got out. Went to Yale Law School. Became editor of NY Times poetry mag. A free thinker.
Temptation of the Rope
The link between us all is tragedy, & these so many years later, I am thinking about him,
all of twenty & gay & more free than any of us might ever be,
& this is one way of telling the story, another one is aphorism or threat: blood on my knife or blood on my dick,
which is to say that surviving that young & beautiful and willing to walk every day as if wearing sequins meant believing that there is always something worth risking doom.
There is no reason for me to think of him now, especially with the football player’s hanging body eclipsing another prison cell,
except, maybe the kid whose name I can’t remember but walk I can, had mastered something the dead man’s singing legs could never,
how not to abandon the body’s weight, & how to make the body expand, to balloon, to keep becoming, until even the danger could not swallow you.
One day I watched him, full of fear for my own fragility & wondered how he dared own so much of himself, openly.
For all I know every minute in those cells was safe for the kid whose name I cannot recall.
But how can a man ever be safe like that, when you are so beautiful the straight ones believe it & want to talk to you as if they love you
and want you to dare them to believe some things in this world must be far too lovely to ever be broken.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||November 23, 2021 2:05 PM|
R5, he's my favorite, too. He inspired one of the best moments in the Simpsons, in the episode where Bart sells his soul for a comic book:
|by Anonymous||reply 50||November 23, 2021 2:13 PM|
Gorgeous Ross Gay. From his "Poem of Unabashed Gratitude"
jutting its beak, turning a circle, and flashing, again, the ruddy bombast of its breast
by which I knew upon waking it was telling me in no uncertain terms
to bellow forth the tubas and sousaphones, the whole rusty brass band of gratitude not quite dormant in my belly— it said so in a human voice, “Bellow forth”— and who among us could ignore such odd and precise counsel?
|by Anonymous||reply 51||November 23, 2021 2:13 PM|
Poetry and short stories as popular genres really suffered from the fall of the magazine era, much in the same way that pop music suffered when radio stations switched to all talk formats.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||November 23, 2021 4:52 PM|
Poetry is dead.
It died with TS Eliot (who was a childless virgin).
|by Anonymous||reply 53||November 23, 2021 8:17 PM|
The Wasteland is overrated.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||November 23, 2021 8:19 PM|
Jewel had the last great collection of poetry.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||November 23, 2021 8:33 PM|
[quote] The Wasteland is overrated.
And it's overlong.
It turns into porridge even when read by the spellbinding voice of Alec Guinness.
This video provides little chapter headings so I can inform you that 'Little Gidding' starts about the 39 th minute. And that about the 44th minute we have a scary dramatic episode (done in a Semite voice) calling 'What are you here?'.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||November 23, 2021 9:01 PM|
[R34] "Her father Greg Lockwood found religion while serving as a seaman on a nuclear submarine in the Cold War. His conversion first led him to the Lutheran Church, then to its ministry, and finally to Roman Catholicism. In 1984, he asked ordination as a married Catholic priest from then St. Louis Archbishop John May under a special pastoral provision issued by Pope John Paul II in 1980. Lockwood therefore had the unique experience of growing up in a Catholic rectory, with a priest for a father."
|by Anonymous||reply 57||November 23, 2021 9:18 PM|
Wow, i have never read poems like those from Patricia Lockwood. Here is part of her poem about Trump's inauguration...
".... A brazen desire to deflate the turtle, to surprise him to the point of squealing, to pop the lenses out so he couldn’t find his way to school.
To rip the suit off stitch by stitch and burn it in one of those cans that homeless people and gang members are always warming their hands over. In the movies.
Where do you buy baseball bats, I asked.
Is there a store that sells only the [italic]red[/italic] spray paint.
The secretary of education came on, I saw her clinging to an oversized novelty pencil as she went over Niagara Falls. I had somehow engineered this, through my cleverness.
The attorney general came on and I thought I will aim the ray and shrink you down and put you in a model train scenario. In a hat with blue stripes, which will be your hell.
The former governor of Arkansas came on, I thought I will sit on you like a fart cushion until you have bllbbted your last bbblpptdt.
The White House chief strategist came on the screen, I said [italic]I will feed you pieces of nazi memorabilia one by one until you start to gurgle. I want them to find you wearing Eva Braun’s bra.[/italic]
The second in command appeared, and I thought, what I do to you, they will name it the Indiana...."
|by Anonymous||reply 58||November 23, 2021 9:44 PM|
^ that poem; too long.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||November 23, 2021 9:45 PM|
[quote] Are you a fan of poetry?
I'll start being a a fan of poetry when poetry gives me something fan-worthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||November 23, 2021 10:44 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 61||November 23, 2021 10:54 PM|
R28 those poets suck compared to Dr Fucks.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||November 23, 2021 11:06 PM|
Great thread.... although it's a little like "Are you a fan of air?"
Kudos to the Wislawa Szymborska mention. I'm not a big fan of poetry in translation (i.e Neruda in Spanish is not Neruda in English) but, although I don't know Polish at all... She comes through loud and clear and will sear your soul with her clarity.
I'd like to mention a minor dead poet of this century, Maz Ritvo. He kind of made a career of dying. Riveting is difficult. My favorite of the last decade or so.
Also, now in my dotage, I am free. There are great poets I can now say... they are turgid, hard to read, ugly song:
Robert Lowell W.S. Merwin Adrienne Rich John Ashberry
There. I am free. No need to pretend I like them.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||November 23, 2021 11:08 PM|
I enjoy the works of Mark Doty, gay poet.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||November 23, 2021 11:14 PM|
R58 You just took me on quite the journey. I read that and assumed it was satire- really well written, hilarious satire. Exciting! I wanted more.
I Googled Patricia Lockwood, only to find out she's a real person and has gifted the world such gems as "Priestdaddy" and "Motherland Fatherland Homelandsexuals." She writes for the fucking London Review of Books.
That poem sucks and she's a shitty writer. How does she have a career?
|by Anonymous||reply 65||November 23, 2021 11:23 PM|
Oh, and may all the Gods and Goddesses receive the burning soul of Robert Bly.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||November 23, 2021 11:40 PM|
Before she won Academy Awards and Tony's and dedicated her life to curing breast cancer, Suzanne Somers was a poet of great promise and considerable renown.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||November 24, 2021 2:53 AM|
[quote] Patricia Lockwood … writes for the fucking London Review of Books.
Does she require foul language in her poetry?
|by Anonymous||reply 68||November 24, 2021 2:57 AM|
I enjoy haiku
Its structure is quite pleasant
Haiku is the best
|by Anonymous||reply 69||November 24, 2021 2:58 AM|
it's all about the red wheelbarrow
|by Anonymous||reply 70||November 24, 2021 3:02 AM|
R68 Probably zest it up a bit.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||November 24, 2021 3:12 AM|
I want to sharpen a pencil in his face. Pop it like a balloon full of bile and woe and misery. Make it rain, rain on his parade.
Where do you buy balloons, I asked. Do they float without helium in day care centers and old folks' homes.
He makes me so sad, the orange man, orange man bad.
Badman orange, not a man but a beast.
I pause. I ponder. Does he know my dad is a priest?
|by Anonymous||reply 72||November 24, 2021 3:17 AM|
Poetry takes too long.
Poetry requires effort.
Poetry is dead.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||November 24, 2021 4:31 AM|
Reading poetry aloud everyday is great for breathing, relaxation and verbal acuity. It's a wonderful discovery even if you judge the poem - you are reading and travelling an unknown path. It's a good exercise in emotion and concentration, always a new cadence and language. You might discover other worlds or see your own heart.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||November 24, 2021 4:54 AM|
How that got published
only Dylan knows.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||November 24, 2021 7:46 PM|
[quote] Are you a fan of poetry?
I will make myself a fan of poetry when poetry makes itself a fan of me!
|by Anonymous||reply 76||November 24, 2021 9:26 PM|
POETRY...... IS DEAD... TO ME...
|by Anonymous||reply 77||November 24, 2021 9:35 PM|
Poetry is dead to everybody except to the maudlin and the solitary.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||November 24, 2021 9:37 PM|
Another vote for Louise Gluck and one for Philip Larkin.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||November 24, 2021 9:40 PM|
Ah, well for me nothing can top Fern Hill or anything else by Dylan Thomas.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||November 24, 2021 9:42 PM|
[quote] Fern Hill
Is that a home for the incurable?
|by Anonymous||reply 81||November 24, 2021 9:45 PM|
This Is Just To Say
I have eaten
that were in
you were probably
they were delicious
and so cold
|by Anonymous||reply 82||November 24, 2021 9:53 PM|
They fuck you up, your Mum and Dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had, and add some new ones, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn by fools in old style frocks and coats,
Who half the time were soppy stern, and half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can, and don't have any kids yourself.
THIS BE THE VERSE by Philip Larkin.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||November 24, 2021 10:31 PM|
Coastal shelves need to discussed in Youtube instructional videos rather than Philip's hateful verse.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||November 24, 2021 10:33 PM|
Poetry should exclude. Inclusion is for popular entertainments.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||November 24, 2021 10:36 PM|
R19. No evidence to support the assertion that Moore was lesbian (she may have been asexual and almost certainly died a virgin). Her mother, on the other hand, was in a Boston marriage while Moore and her brother were growing up.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||November 24, 2021 10:37 PM|
R86... well, no photographic record of sapphic sex, but she was in love with her mother and with Elizabeth Bishop at the least.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||November 24, 2021 11:20 PM|
Burying The Cat
You write to say you love me, to say
I loved you; to tell me that even now
If I called your name you would come back;
to say you are empty, to say you want me,
that I want you-which is all true.
But, tonight, I am a grave digger,
filling a small black hole with leaves,
with leaf-mold, with my cat, who is cold.
If I answered your letter I would say
To you that limitless love sets limits;
that though I miss your mouth on mine,
This emptiness in which I find myself is
filling and good, that I am satisfied
In the way that a cat is satisfied
with its own solitude. I would tell you
that this grave I here fill is not the
ultimate black hole, but it is a cradle,
cat-size, a bed; that the stone I lay
at its head says I am not forgetful,
That love lives on. I would remind you
Of what you already know, that grief
Is real and must be suffered, that wish
and deed are not the same. I would say
I want you – and will not call your name.
Margaret Cardea Black
|by Anonymous||reply 88||November 24, 2021 11:22 PM|
I have come to claim Marilyn Monroe’s body
for the sake of my own
dig it up
hand it over
cram it in this paper sack
hubba hubba hubba
Look at those luscious long brown bones
that wide and crusty pelvis
oh she wanted so much to be serious
but she’ll never stop smiling now
has she lost her mind
Marilyn be serious
they’re taking your picture
And they’re taking the pictures of
eight young women in New York City
who murdered themselves for being pretty
by the same method as you
the very next day after you
I have claimed their bodies too
they smile up out of my paper sack
like brainless Cinderellas
the reporters are furious
they are asking me questions
what right does a woman have to Marilyn Monroe’s body?
and what am I doing for lunch?
ha ha they think I mean to eat you
their teeth are lurid and they want to pose me
leaning on the shovel, nude
but when one of the reporters comes too close
I beat him
bust his camera with your long smooth thigh
and with your lovely knuckle bone
I break his eye
Long ago you wanted to write poems
Be serious, Marilyn
I am going to take you in this paper sack
around the world, and
write on it: —the poems of Marilyn Monroe—
Dedicated to all princes,
the male poets who were so sorry to see you go,
before they had a crack at you.
They wept for you
and also they wanted to stuff you while
you still had a little meat left in useful places
but they were too slow.
Now I shall take them my paper sack
and we shall act out a poem together:
“How would you like to see Marilyn Monroe,
in action, smiling, and without her clothes?”
We shall wait long enough to see them make familiar faces
and then I shall beat them with your skull.
hubba. hubba. hubba. hubba. hubba.
Marilyn be serious
today I have come to claim your body for my own
|by Anonymous||reply 89||November 24, 2021 11:46 PM|
It’s the strangest and saddest thing—as a teen I adored poetry, couldn’t get enough. And I mean all kinds, from ancient to contemporary. I was known to my schoolmates as the poetry obsessive. Then, after some awful prescription medication which aggravated an underlying and undetected health condition I didn’t know and caused me a massive psychological breakdown, I lost my liking for it altogether. I have barely read or listened to a single one since, and I struggle to enjoy it at all.
To this day, I don’t know whether it’s because I associate poetry with my former healthier and happier life and therefore find it too traumatic to enjoy, or whether my brain has sustained physical damage that renders any appreciation of poetry hard. It’s been difficult to come to terms with.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||November 25, 2021 12:03 AM|
Naming It by Leontia Flynn
Five years out of school and preachy
with booklearning, it is good to be discovered
as a marauding child.
To think the gloomiest most baffled
misadventures might lead so suddenly
to a clearing - as when a friend
taking me to her well-stocked fridge says:
this is an avocado and this
is an aubergine.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||November 25, 2021 12:13 AM|
“The Wasteland” may be too long, but “The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock” and “Rhapsody on a Windy Night” are wonderful…
|by Anonymous||reply 92||November 25, 2021 12:23 AM|
I would like all things to be free of me,
Never to murder the days with presupposition,
Never to feel they suffer the imposition
Of having to be this or that. How easy
It is to maim the moment
With expectation, to force it to define
Itself. Beyond all that I am, the sun
Scatters its light as though by accident.
The fox eats its own leg in the trap
To go free. As it limps through the grass
The earth itself appears to bleed.
When the morning light comes up
Who knows what suffering midnight was?
Proof is what I do not need.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||November 25, 2021 12:27 AM|
R87. She LIVED her mother and EB, but it’s stretching to say she was IN love with them. She had similarly strong feelings for her brother, WC Williams and Ezra Pound. At Bryn Mawr she had schoolgirl crush on Peggy James (Henry’s niece), but kind of thing was hardly unique to the daughters of Bilitis. She had close lesbian friends (like Bryher), but the most recent biographies simply don’t indicate she ever had sex or was conscious of (or at least spike with intimates) of anything sexual. Her libido May have been directed towards poetry. Brilliant, dazzling poetry—but she may have been emotionally undeveloped. Her mother seems to have been a tyrant—her brother’s wife avoided contact as much as she could with Mrs. Moore and, to a lesser extent, Marianne.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||November 25, 2021 12:31 AM|
Frank O'Hara can't be beat for 1950's gay poetry:
Having a Coke with You
is even more fun than going to San Sebastian, Irún, Hendaye, Biarritz, Bayonne
or being sick to my stomach on the Travesera de Gracia in Barcelona
partly because in your orange shirt you look like a better happier St. Sebastian
partly because of my love for you, partly because of your love for yoghurt
partly because of the fluorescent orange tulips around the birches
partly because of the secrecy our smiles take on before people and statuary
it is hard to believe when I’m with you that there can be anything as still
as solemn as unpleasantly definitive as statuary when right in front of it
in the warm New York 4 o’clock light we are drifting back and forth
between each other like a tree breathing through its spectacles
and the portrait show seems to have no faces in it at all, just paint
you suddenly wonder why in the world anyone ever did them
at you and I would rather look at you than all the portraits in the world
except possibly for the Polish Rider occasionally and anyway it’s in the Frick
which thank heavens you haven’t gone to yet so we can go together for the first time
and the fact that you move so beautifully more or less takes care of Futurism
just as at home I never think of the Nude Descending a Staircase or
at a rehearsal a single drawing of Leonardo or Michelangelo that used to wow me
and what good does all the research of the Impressionists do them
when they never got the right person to stand near the tree when the sun sank
or for that matter Marino Marini when he didn’t pick the rider as carefully
as the horse
it seems they were all cheated of some marvelous experience
which is not going to go wasted on me which is why I’m telling you about it
|by Anonymous||reply 95||November 25, 2021 12:31 AM|
LOVED not lived!!! Why does autocorrect insist of changing lovely to lively and loved to lived???
|by Anonymous||reply 96||November 25, 2021 12:32 AM|
R92 Haunting. "Liminal spaces" are a big meme right now, I can't think of a better capture of that in-between feeling.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||November 25, 2021 12:35 AM|
Shall never forgive Eliot for the execrable poems about cats.
Also, he was a waffling arcane bore.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||November 25, 2021 12:46 AM|
R98 Yeah, but liminal spaces... so hot right now.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||November 25, 2021 12:51 AM|
Just don't get Eliot going on about the Jews.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||November 25, 2021 2:43 AM|
A lustreless protrusive eye stares from the protozoic slime at a Canaletto. The rats are underneath the piles. The jew is underneath the lot. Money in furs. The boatman smiles.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||November 25, 2021 3:27 AM|
R95 You do say, huh?
who bit detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars for committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and intoxication, who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts,
who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,
who blew and were blown by those human seraphim, the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love,
who balled in the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public parks and cemeteries scattering their semen freely to whomever come who may,
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath when the blond & naked angel came to pierce them with a sword,
|by Anonymous||reply 102||November 25, 2021 3:44 AM|
Howard Moss was a very good poet, seemingly little appreciated now, after his death in 1987. If you like Auden or Merrill, you'll likely appreciate his poems. His work is formal, and condensed, terse even, urban and highly sophisticated. He had been the poetry editor of the NYRB. He died unexpectedly at 65. His book of short humorous pieces, called "Instant Lives," is one of the very funniest books I know of, the kind of thing that can make you fall on the floor laughing.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||November 25, 2021 1:43 PM|
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||November 25, 2021 5:43 PM|
Ginsburg is also fun. I'll take either Ginsburg or O'Hara any day.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||November 25, 2021 6:21 PM|
No. It was mostly for the tall lesbian types who couldn’t get dates.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||November 26, 2021 12:18 AM|
Poetry is in a sad state. No one seems to do much more than report their life now- it's there undigested on the page. There is more love for lived experience than there is for language, shape or form. Even the wildest of the confessional poets had enough classical understanding to know when to break, blow and burn it. The personal poet can be universally profound or just beautifully understood. Lately it's just hard to pronounce.
New poetry like new music will surprise us and capture me less than one time out of a hundred. We try to finish it. Not sure why.
There is a glut of terrible poetry - that is not poetry at all to me. An unkind reportage of language and experience so personal and unformed that it resonates not at all. It probably reflects the times. Our cultural shift is a great divide. A tower of Babylon. Everything is so specific and testimonial - already dead on the page.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||November 26, 2021 3:11 AM|
[quote] Poetry is in a sad state. No one seems to do much more than report their life now
Yes, they are 'contemplating their own navel'.
Other people's navels holds no interest for me.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||November 26, 2021 3:14 AM|
This is today's Poem of The Day from Poetry.Org. A good example of what I tried say in my clumsy post @ R107.
The cat releases his urine on
your side of the bed
where it neatly
pools in the indention
you nightly rest your head
How am I to infer this male urine?
A stream of (un)consciousness?
Relief(-lease) to my neuroses?
A psychoanalytical sweet caress?
The cat releases his yearning
on my side of the bed
Westernized tentacles of Thought
Colon(-ized) instinctual urges
s(M)other the Matriarch’s head
My dynamic unconscious reaches
to strangle the cat, my past life
extends a hand to stroke fixations,
relief with each sleek touch
The cat (wise old man) releases his Jungian
approach, vicissitudes flood my bed-
lam. The body politic morphs, treaty lines
blackened with cedar charcoal. Your
Urban Indian complex(ations), fix(you)ations thunder and split
|by Anonymous||reply 109||November 26, 2021 3:27 AM|
R107 They get taught to do that in their MFA classes. Upper level English classes are run like therapy sessions. Confessional poetry is the easiest form for boring, empty upper middle class college students to emulate- you don't have to know anything, or be challenged by form. These are kids who are barely able to function independently and never interact with the general population.
They anticipate that their is audience is treating their work the same way and will be fascinated with dissecting their reactions to things they saw on T.V. and obscure personal references. They get coddled, humored, and- worst of all- published.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||November 26, 2021 12:45 PM|
I had a subscription to the New Yorker from 1992 until around 2015, (when I dumped it because it had gone downhill so badly). It's one of the principal publishers of new poetry in the US. I read maybe one poem a year in those magazines, because what they printed was so bad, self-involved and smarmy. Dreck is what is being churned out nowadays. It's kind of a shame.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||November 26, 2021 1:16 PM|
[quote]upper middle class college students
While I'll also acknowledge that "confessional poetry" is the norm, and the MFA poem is king/queen now days... it's as reflective of the general culture as poetry itself as a form of art and expression. The personal is political, etc. And that upper middle class thing... well have you actually read poetry journals in the last decade or so? Marginalized voices, increased representation, diversity ... is the gold standard now. The increased POC LGBTGIABCXYZ voices are still.... confessional: "here's the nature of my consciousness and experience"... but very far from the white upper middle class college student content you suggest. It's not a bad thing, in my view. But the MFA odor of it all is ... well, it often causes me to fast forward to the end of the poem to see if there's something more than seminar/workshop craft going on.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||November 26, 2021 5:17 PM|
R112 They are upper middle class people of color and the odd scholarship student who fits right in with them. They live in the same enclaves and consume the same media. They are segregated in with the white ones.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||November 26, 2021 5:25 PM|
R113 You believe what you want to believe... but the "we had no food to eat when we crossed the border" poetry contradicts you. I think the horrific (my bias) poetry-slam events of 15-20 years was foundational to it.
Is poetry fed by university-elites? Well welcome to the last 300 years.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||November 26, 2021 5:33 PM|
R114 You don't want to see it, don't. Somebody got called out 🤣
|by Anonymous||reply 115||November 26, 2021 5:47 PM|
[quote] Everything is so specific and testimonial - already dead on the page. Upper level English classes are run like therapy sessions. Confessional poetry is the easiest form for boring, empty upper middle class college students to emulate- you don't have to know anything, or be challenged by form.
Alright, so how does the antithesis to this go, then? How would you train and educate poets to improve their skills and broaden their literary minds? What, according to you, ought burgeoning writers to do with their time and their work to be as great as the canonised poets?
|by Anonymous||reply 116||November 26, 2021 8:20 PM|
A poem like Yeats’ “The Second Coming” would never get published in this day and age, because too much symbolism and too ominous.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||November 26, 2021 9:03 PM|
Well, a poem like "The Second Coming" is not going to be published today because Yeats is long-dead and isn't writing anymore. It's one of the greatest poems in English of the last couple hundred years... so yeah, that period of great Poets (Yeats, Frost, Pound, Eliot, Crane, Moore, Stevens, Williams) is ovah, ovah, ovah... and we may never see a period like it again.
So, poems like it aren't published now... and haven't been for 80 years. I'd argue that Ginsberg had the Whitman-like scope (but was too jumbled-crude for mainstream critics) - but who else has among the younger generations had the Size of those Modernist poets? Hughes? Merrill? Ashbury? Lowell? Bishop? Dove? Haas? Pinsky? no no no no.... the scope of language and perspective just simply is not longer in their zeitgeist's toolbox, compared to the Modernist Pantheon.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||November 26, 2021 9:29 PM|
[quote] the scope of language and perspective just simply is not longer in their zeitgeist's toolbox, compared to the Modernist Pantheon.
Rather fatalistic to say that, isn’t it? Or at least, too reverent when it comes to the past.
Either it’s impossible to have scope and perspective in a shrinking and accelerating world such as ours, and therefore the ideal of a successful poem must change accordingly, or; it is possible to have scope and perspective as in past times, and any atrophy or neglect of such is down to a complex set of causes which current writers may have to survive before they can see beyond.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||November 26, 2021 9:38 PM|
[quote] How would you train and educate poets to improve their skills and broaden their literary minds? What, according to you, ought burgeoning writers to do with their time and their work to be as great as the canonised poets?
You might as well ask about training and education for steam-train drivers or dodo-bird trainers.
There is no demand for poets any more. It is a dead profession.
People don't pay money for poetry.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||November 26, 2021 9:50 PM|
R120 There are more poets now, and a greater volume of poetry, (even proportionately to the souls currently living on the planet) than ever. It's quality, not quantity nor "demand" that is at question, I think. Profession? The expansion of American post-secondary institutions in the last 100 years.... so many poets in Academia... making money.
It's the problem..... quantity if poetry and poems, and academic marketplace for poets to teach and be paid.
These are high quality problems, but problems nonetheless.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||November 26, 2021 9:58 PM|
R121 is, as you’re saying, dilution and over-saturation is taking place, then surely at some point an organic benchmark and corrective quality control will arise? This tends to happen with every other vocation.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||November 26, 2021 10:01 PM|
R120 people still write and perform opera. Mummers plays still go ahead. Folk magic is still used in some corners of the world. There’s even still a market for unicycles.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||November 26, 2021 10:01 PM|
99% of species on earth already have gone distinct. Organic corrective processes sometimes lead to The Big Darkness....
|by Anonymous||reply 124||November 26, 2021 10:06 PM|
Ha... not distinct. Exactly NOT distinct. Extinct.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||November 26, 2021 10:07 PM|
Extinct = Lifeless
|by Anonymous||reply 126||November 26, 2021 10:08 PM|
Seems a few of the posters here are determined—-even deliriously giddy—to be living in a new Dark age.
Medieval people made memorable art, too, you know. Just saying.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||November 26, 2021 10:38 PM|
I think Gluck is too facile and sentimental. There’s not enough depth for me and her imagery is meager.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||November 26, 2021 11:13 PM|
R116 They need to focus on providing something of substance to their reader. They need to be writing for the benefit of the reader, and not themselves. Only academics read poems because they are fascinated by the psyche of the writer. Everyone else is looking for insight, or beauty, an articulation of truth and emotions that can't be expressed in simple language.
They won't be famous, no one cares about their identity. "I'm special, you can't grasp my depth" isn't any more valuable or meaningful coming from a child of immigrants than a great-grandchild of immigrants, from a woman than a man. You are present in your work simply by writing it, there's no need to constantly remind the reader.
They need to be taught to look outside themselves and connect with the greater world. Maybe in a classroom setting, ban self-references in their work for a while. No first person, all allusions have to be cultural instead of personal, no neologisms. Force them to practice writing for other people.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||November 27, 2021 12:45 AM|
Nothing makes me more uncomfortable than a poetry slam - and I live in a vat of acid.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||November 27, 2021 4:53 AM|
Are you a fan of pussy?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||November 28, 2021 1:04 AM|
R130 They're actually pretty fun. You have to be able to handle pretentious people who you can't relate to, though, since they're all convinced they're the voice of the streets.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||November 28, 2021 11:35 AM|
Art fart shit tit
|by Anonymous||reply 133||November 28, 2021 5:25 PM|
[quote]art fart shit tit
... was once whispered quietly behind the stalls, or leaning in the ditches... now it is saved in digital server farms and spread universally to reassure the rubes. Hence, our civilization flattens, and what was once beauty, is unseen, lost, forgotten.
Happy Sunday to you R133... get some air.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||November 28, 2021 5:46 PM|
R134, I’m bending over to inhale the musky odors of my crotch greedily.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||November 28, 2021 6:47 PM|
R70, I too am a fan of WCW.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||November 28, 2021 9:34 PM|
I love Hal Sirowitz. Self- deprecating and funny.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||November 29, 2021 4:01 AM|
I like the one about the faces and the petals on a wet black bough.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||November 29, 2021 4:25 AM|
With Annie gone,
whose eyes to compare
With the morning sun?
Not that I did compare,
But I do compare
Now that she's gone.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||November 29, 2021 4:29 AM|
R138 Pound is a wonder. Shame about the fascism, but it’s not like he can do anything about it now.
Hearing his ‘Cathay’ read aloud in full (by Alan Davis Drake) changed my life. My favourites of his though are probably either ‘The Alchemist’, ‘Poem by the Bridge at Ten-Shin’, or ‘Exile’s Letter’—all three gorgeously atmospheric and opulent with almost panoramic scope, but also with a certain messy humanity in the way he speaks of lust and admiration and hunger for beauty or power.
[quote] Rain flakes of gold on the water/Azure and flaking silver of water,/Alcyon, Phaetona, Alcmena,/Pallor of silver, pale lustre of Latona,/By these, from the malevolence of the dew/Guard this alembic./Elain, Tireis, Allodetta,/Quiet this metal.
[quote] With head gear glittering against the cloud and sun,/The lords go forth from the court, and into far borders./They ride upon dragon-like horses,/Upon horses with headtrappings of yellow metal,/And the streets make way for their passage./Haughty their passing,/Haughty their steps as they go in to great banquets,/To high halls and curious food,/To the perfumed air and girls dancing,/To clear flutes and clear singing:/To the dance of the seventy couples;/To the mad chase through the gardens./Night and day are given over to pleasure/And they think it will last a thousand autumns./Unwearying autumns.
[quote] And what with broken wheels and so on, I won’t say it wasn’t hard going.../Over roads twisted like sheep’s guts./And I was still going, late in the year,/in the cutting wind from the north,/And thinking how little you cared for the cost.../and you caring enough to pay it./Then what a reception!/Red jade cups, food well set, on a blue jewelled table;/And I was drunk, and had no thought of returning;/And you would walk out with me to the western corner of the castle,/To the dynastic temple, with the water about it clear as blue jade,/With boats floating, and the sound of mouth-organs and drums,/With ripples like dragon-scales going grass-green on the water,/Pleasure lasting, with courtezans going and coming without hindrance,/With the willow-flakes falling like snow,/And the vermilioned girls getting drunk about sunset,/And the waters a hundred feet deep reflecting green eyebrows—/Eyebrows painted green area fine sight in young moonlight,/Gracefully painted—and the girls singing back at each other,/Dancing in transparent brocade,/And the wind lifting the song, and interrupting it,/tossing it up under the clouds.
[quote] And once again we met, later, at the South Bridge head./And then the crowd broke up—you went north to San palace./And if you ask how I regret that parting? It is like the flowers falling at spring’s end,/confused, whirled in a tangle./What is the use of talking! And there is no end of talking—/There is no end of things in the heart./I call in the boy,/Have him sit on his knees to write and seal this,/And I send it a thousand miles, thinking.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||November 29, 2021 1:22 PM|
^^John Gould Fletcher is another fine Imagist poet, though he lacks the prestige and clout of Pound.
His ‘Irradiations’ are quite special to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||November 29, 2021 1:36 PM|
I don't get poetry. Sure there's stuff I've enjoyed reading but I know I'm missing the essence of poetry.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||November 29, 2021 2:49 PM|
That's like saying you don't "get" books or food or TV shows, R142. I say that kindly, too. I think too many people are intimidated by poetry. They think, perhaps like you, that they're missing some essence or lacking some secret knowledge or key to getting it. But you're not. Poetry is accessible to anyone. Some of it you will dislike or find difficult, but some of it will smack you right in the face (in a good way). There are certain lines of poetry that have had a greater impact than anything else I've ever read in any other form. That feeling when you read a few words and the truth of them, which you had never consciously articulated to yourself before, it so obvious it makes you laugh out loud or cry or get up and walk around the room like a zombie for a few mins, mind blown.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||November 30, 2021 2:29 AM|