THEATRE GOSSIP #443: The "I'm Just A DLer Who Can't Let It Go!" Edition

To the poster from #442: Where on earth did you get the idea that the SUMMERTIME screenplay was written by Gore Vidal?

For a while I act refined and cool ... then I become a raging cunt.

Somebody was asking about chamber musicals in the previous thread. Would Godspell fall into that category?

Thanks, R1. That didn't sound right to me, and I was just about to look it up.

These thread titles just go from bad to worse.

IMDB credits H.E. Bates and David Lean for the screenplay for Summertime, with an uncredited David Ogden Stewart.

[quote] with an uncredited David Ogden Stewart.

But the paycheck was made out to Donald Ogden Stewart.

LOL! You're right. Sorry, Donald!

Did the original production of GODSPELL ever play on Broadway?

[quote] Did the original production of GODSPELL ever play on Broadway?

Yes.

I've done my time in contemporary music theatre world, particularly around theatre students and aspiring musical makers, and I've almost never heard the term "chamber musical." It sounds more like a description someone in opera/classical world would use.

Is it merely a small ensemble? Does it refer to the size of the orchestra? The scope of the subject matter? Is FALSETTOS a chamber musical?

Yes, I would definitely classify FALSETTOS as a chamber musical. And I would say the general definition is -- small cast size, no chorus (or very small chorus), no elaborate production values. Not so much the scope of the subject matter.

Remember the musical version of THE DEAD. That would qualify as a chamber musical, right?

THE BOYFRIEND would be another example of a chamber musical and perhaps one of the first and few successful ones of the 1950s. There's a small chorus of young men and women but their characters all have names and are somewhat defined as opposed to the anonymous choruses of most musicals of the decade.

But I suppose if that's part of the definition, WEST SIDE STORY could also be defined a s a chamber musical.

THE BOYFRIEND is definitely not a Chamber Musical. It's an homage to those big 20's shows with a full chorus (not as many as the original, but still plenty, with plenty of big chorus numbers.

The original production of WEST SIDE STORY had a cast of 38.

The quintessential chamber musical.

Isn’t Passion a chamber musical?

[quote]Isn’t Passion a chamber musical?

Yeah, a torture chamber musical.

Haha, R19. I gather Steve wrote it from down in his dungeon to provide inspiration.

This is the worst thing to happen at the Guthrie since Melissa Gilbert in Little House on the Prairie - The Musical.

I think a clue as to why Leona Samish in "The Time of the Cuckoo/Do I Hear a Waltz?" is so unpleasant is that the story supposedly was autobiographical. Arthur Laurents went to Italy and had an affair with a married, closeted Italian. The insecure, abrasive and suspicious Leona probably reflects Laurents' own prickly and unpleasant nature. That is also probably why he was so anxious to restore the character to his original concept after Shirley Booth in "Time of the Cuckoo" and Katharine Hepburn in "Summertime" played softened versions of the part. Booth insisted that the role be made more sympathetic on Broadway. In the "Summertime" screenplay, the character is renamed "Jane Hudson" and is rather judgmental and puritanical but nothing like Leona. The Debra Monk revival and the "Do I Hear a Waltz?" Broadway musical restored Leona to her unlikeable self. Also in the Debra Monk revival with a revised script by Laurents, Leona is not that innocent and has been around. Jane Hudson is practically a virgin.

If Richard Rodgers had done a musical based on the screenplay of "Summertime" with Mary Martin as Jane Hudson, not Leona Samish then the show would have been a major hit.

The ENCORES version of DO I HEAR A WALTZ featured DL's own TG patron saint, Karen Ziemba, who almost stole the show as the Italian landlady!

And now Karen is playing Shaw!! Mrs. Warren no less!

Did anyone here actually see WALTZ on Broadway? I'd like to hear a first-hand opinion.

Can a chamber musical have a coup de théâtre?

[quote]If Richard Rodgers had done a musical based on the screenplay of "Summertime" with Mary Martin as Jane Hudson

With Ethel Merman as Blanche!

The LCT production of Cuckoo was directed lovingly by the late, great Nicholas Martin, who chose to use a lot of unknot owns in the cast. However, DL favorite David Harbour did appear in it. I recall watching Laurents having an argument with someone in the audience after the performance I saw. He was always a bitter, fussy queen.

I worked for a time at a Broadway touring house when "Little House" the musical came through. Gilbert couldn't have been nastier or more unhappy. It was bad. She treated everyone shittily and complained about everything.

And the show sucked.

UNKNOWNS. Probably from the Trinity in R.I.

It's really a shame that Ziemba played the Italian Pensione Owner. She would have been perfect casting for Leona. Instead we got the very chilly Melissa Errico, who just came off unpleasant. But the show wasn't good, anyway.

[quote]These thread titles just go from bad to worse.

I stopped reading the titles long ago.

[quote]Yes, I would definitely classify FALSETTOS as a chamber musical. And I would say the general definition is -- small cast size, no chorus (or very small chorus), no elaborate production values. Not so much the scope of the subject matter.

That would certainly describe "The Fantasticks."

[quote]I worked for a time at a Broadway touring house when "Little House" the musical came through. Gilbert couldn't have been nastier or more unhappy. It was bad. She treated everyone shittily and complained about everything.

You should have pulled out the shitbra.

Would Urinetown be an example of a Chamber Pot Musical?

Errico...

In that clip at r36, Melissa is perfectly charming and her voice is lovely and warm. But that's not Claybourne Elder with her. Who is that?

And who played the Italian opposite Debra Monk, anyone know?

Melissa Errico is the female Gregg Edelman.

As it states, r37, Richard Troxell .

[quote] It's really a shame that Ziemba played the Italian Pensione Owner.

Not as much of a shame as when she played Desiree in Mark Lamos’ sexed-up A Little Night Music at ACT in San Francisco. And speaking of chilly, unfriendly women, Dana Ivey played Mme. Armfeldt. Emily Skinner was Charlotte. She and Ziemba should have switched roles. Oh, and Jose Llana was the queeniest Count Carl-Magnus you’ve ever seen.

I like that in a Count Carl-Magnus.

From the last thread:

[quote]Cindy Williams to Tour With Solo Show "Me, Myself & Shirley"

Will they get Cynthia Erivo for the movie version?

Mrs. Doubtfire = DOUBTLESS MISFIRE

I saw the ACT Night Music and Emily played Charlotte like she was Annie Oakley. Karen was just fine.

Company

Oy, R45: I hated almost everything about that arrangement: the vocals, the doo-wop harmonies, the instrumentation.

Revisited, revised, but not at all improved from the original.

Typical that people here are spending (or wasting) so much time trying to provide a very specific and exclusive definition of what a "chamber musical" is, when it's not the kind of a term that needs or wants a specific and exclusive definition.

That said, there is no way that WEST SIDE STORY can be classified as a chamber musical.

R38 Edelmann has a really good voice, but is a boring actor with not too much stage presence unfortunately.

sorry, one "n" in Edelman, two 3 "g"s in "Gregg"

3 "g"s -- where's that edit, oh, where, oh, where's the edit!

I think that woman making a scene at the Guthrie Theater is Leona Samish, still without sex since her vacation in Venice all those years ago!

OP's nickname should be A-dud Annie!

[quote] Emily played Charlotte like she was Annie Oakley. Karen was just fine.

Emily was good the night I saw it, not “Annie Oakley” at all. Nowhere near a definitive Charlotte, but good. Ziemba, on the other hand, was the antithesis of a Desiree. Completely lacking in glamour and sexual allure, she was the definition of “miscast.” And Paolo Montalban was the queenie Count, not Jose Llana.

I watched the pre-pandemic boot of MRS DOUBTFIRE on YouTube...I know there have been many changes (seemingly for the better) since then, but I'm amazed at how winning Rob McClure as Daniel/Doubtfire is. I wanted to absolutely dismiss his attempts at evoking Williams and the character, but he's really quite astounding.

Yes, he channels the film a great deal, but his timing, physicality and versatility really shine here. I think the musical itself is very slight and some of the changes from the movie feel a bit hamstrung and cloying, but I honestly couldn't see any other current Broadway performer being nearly as successful with it than McClure. I'll be interested to see it live next month and how it's changed/improved...

…Speaking of “why” musicals

I don't think there's a *why?* with things like Doubtfire or Tootsie. They don't seem like they *couldn't* be musicalized. I'd ask why if someone said they were going to make a Broadway musical of Koyaanisqatsi or Precious.

I think the problem with taking an older, popular movie like Tootsie or Mrs. Doubtfire and turning them into musicals is that you end up with a traditional book musical. They may be varying degrees of entertaining, but they don't expand the form or provide spectacle and they're not set against something bigger.

Perhaps they'll musicalize the Goonies next. With numbers like Astoria Euphoria, Always separate the drugs, and Hey You Guys!

I'd like to see Yentl re-imagined as a musical comedy. The featured number, of course, would be "Avigdor, Wait!".

They should also make more stage musicals from horror films. Carrie can't be the only one.

My high school had three theatres (one was a black box). The main auditorium seated 1700 and it was where we did “big” musicals, like “Guys and Dolls, “Brigadoon,” and the rotation of Rodgers and Hammerstein. The smaller theatre, a thrust, seated 400, and was where the aging Southern queen who was one of our three drama teachers, directed such musicals as “Charlie Brown,” “Little Mary Sunshine,” and “Dames at Sea” in that space (he directed “The Boy Friend” twice, once in each space—smaller ensemble the second time). He also directed me in “Mrs. McThing” (not the musical, which hadn’t yet been written) and “Bell Book And Candle” in the smaller space. It was the 70s, but felt like 1956 in his sensibility.

The Exorcist and Misery were adapted into plays. What about a musical based on Village of the Damned?

The only successful Broadway horror musical that I can think of took Prince and Sondheim to achieve it.

Why not a Broadway musical of WAIT UNTIL DARK with a singing refrigerator like the washer and radio in CAROLINE, OR CHANGE?

I'm not saying anything new here, but the biggest problem with turning hit movies into Broadway shows is they lack the star power that made them hit movies.

I can't, for the life of me, understand crazed audiences who see a show because they loved the movie it's based on. It's a certain set up for disappointment.

But apparently it’s not a disappointment, r65, in the case of Rob McClure. If the critics like him as much as the poster on this thread did, then he will become a reason himself to see the show based on his acclaim in the part.

But the star as selling point has its pitfalls. Isn't the current model about the show being the star?

The point, r67, is that making a musical based on a film that had a big star isn’t necessarily a recipe for disaster.

After Anya flopped on Broadway, Wright and Forrest rewrote it as a chamber work. It's had a few regional/college productions under various names. There's a nice recording under the title The Anastasia Affaire with Judy Kaye, Len Cariou and Regina Resnick.

R60, there is Evil Dead.

No it isn't, r68, but the musical still has to be good.

^ By good I mean crowd-pleasing...not necessarily the same thing.

With "Chaplin" and a few other flop musicals, if this one doesn't make money, regardless of his talent, he might not be considered for star roles. Happened to David Cryer after a few floperoos, and he was talented too. Happened to Larry Kert, etc.

Happened to dear DL fave Karen Ziemba when "Steel Pier" flopped. They stopped giving her star roles on Broadway.

Steel Pier = why? show

Karen Ziemba and her teeny tiny titties that point in different directions. (Why'd she do Playboy anyway? Hussy.)

They apparently couldn't get rights to "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" which would have been a real downer anyway.

Village of the Damned could be a wonderful chamber musical.

I don't think people went to the comparable cross-dressing show to see Santino Fontina as "Tootsie". Is this new show any better? That one wasn't so hot, though the supporting performances were well done.

Fontana

Exactly, r77. The milieu would guarantee a strong dance show but you really weren't invested in any of those characters. And Karen, like Charlotte, does everything proficiently and precisely and...they still aren't Gwen or Chita.

What was the story with Daniel McDonald in Steel Pier. I remember the buzz being that people were shocked that somebody no one had heard of had an above the title lead role in a big musical.

I don't know, r82. He was very appealing but the dead concept was stupid.

[quote]I think the problem with taking an older, popular movie like Tootsie or Mrs. Doubtfire and turning them into musicals is that you end up with a traditional book musical. They may be varying degrees of entertaining, but they don't expand the form or provide spectacle and they're not set against something bigger.

So what, pray tell, is wrong with having some new shows that are written as traditional book musicals? And are you saying that EVERY new musical needs to "expand the form," "provide spectacle," or be "set against something better?" Frankly, it sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

Daniel McDonald seemed to have come out of nowhere, but he was very charming and good in the role. When I went to a preview though, it was unclear that he was dead until almost the very end and this was a fantasy, at least at the performance I went to. The writers were tinkering with it. Karen was fine, but her big 2nd act number just was about desperation. If they somehow jazzed up or staged her optimistic opening number in its place and given it a great staging (or just a better song instead of "Running In Place"), it might have made Karen a star. I remember a concert where she did the "Sooner or Later" song that Madonna had done in "Dick Tracy" movie, and Karen just was fabulous. I had thought from that point that she could be a big star. But it also depends on what material you luck into when you're cast, too.

That's it! Thanks, R86 !

My stars! She sings the opening line directly to his dick! Clutching as I type....

The problem is, people fail to understand that adapting material from one medium to another medium doesn't always work. Something that works really well as a book doesn't mean it will easily be adapted into a play or film. And, to successfully adapt material, you frequently have to completely restructure it...and, when it comes to adapting beloved famous popular films into a stage show, the rabid fans will freak the fuck out if the stage show isn't EXACTLY the same as their beloved movie or leaves anything out...even if it doesn't really work on stage.

I saw Mrs. Doubtfire two years ago and the show is, not surprisingly, dreck but Rob McClure was terrific. He's an engaging, personable performer and he did a great job of filling Robin Williams' huge shoes. Very talented performers can make awful shows palatable just by their talent and charisma. Same thing happened with the turd known as "Scandalous" aka "The Awful Musical About Aimee Semple McPherson That Kathie Gifford Wrote". Carolee Carmello gave a great performance in it and really deserved that Tony nomination. The show itself needs to have every copy of every script burned in a bonfire.

Larry Kerr couldn’t act. David Cryer had the voice and talent of a leading man, but not the look.

Rob McClure has always done character leads. The worst show he did was Irma La Douce at Encores, but that was sunk by John Doyle and the incredibly miscast and weak leading lady.

Actually, Karen Ziemba would have been a much better Leona Samish in Waltz than Melissa Errico was. I wonder if they considered that? Ziemba was late 50s at the time but played 50ish, which would have been fine for Leona.

uh, r91, see r31.

If Rob McClure gets naked in Mrs. Doubtfire, I’m in.

Karen is talented, and supposedly the nicest person ever, but just never made it as a star, Tony Award notwithstanding. She seems willing to work at every level, such as the number of times she's done Project Shaw, but above-the-title fame hasn't been in the cards. She just doesn't have "it."

Fuck you, r89!

Christ is Love,

Since very few saw " Scandalous," here is an excerpt.

Saw Trevor last night. There were fewer than 100 people in the house. I had a TDF ticket which was all the way back in one of the last rows but they pretty much let us sit wherever we wanted to so everyone was grouped in the front of the orchestra. I was the only person on house left.

The show was not terribly good, but its heart was in the right place so it's hard to really criticize it. there were two songs that were quite lovely (or had lovely parts to them) but the rest of the score was forgettable. The kid playing Trevor was very appealing, but has a weak voice. There were a few ensemble kids (boy and girl) who were standouts, and the nurse towards the end was very good, but the two adults doing all the older roles were bland at best. The actress playing Diana Ross was a lot of fun, but it would have nice for her to take it maybe a half step further, if only because everything else was so bland.

I would expect a closing notice imminently.

R97, I agree with your assessment except that I didn't the the kid in the title role had a weak voice at all. Maybe he was off his best form at the show you attended. It's quite a demanding role, especially for a kid.

Well, he must have been having a very off night because he was all over the place. I just chalked it up to the fact that he's going through that awkward stage where one's voice changes and you don't have as full control of your instrument as usual. He was also flat several times.

The girl who played Frannie is an absolute star in the making. I couldn't take my eyes off her.

R99, the voice changing might also partly account for it, but really, he was very strong vocally when I saw the show last week.

I wasn't doubting you. Sorry if I made it seem that way.

Doubtfire is dreck and has no reason for being and one of the worst, useless scores ever but - probably because of Zaks - they did one thing right that Tootsie did wrong -- they create a real showcase role for their leading man and McClure delivers. Santino was fine in Tootsie, but the show didn't actually give him all that much to do. Rob does voices, improv-seeming invention, dance, comedy, a handful of fully visible costume changes and more, both as Doubtfire and as the male character. It must be exhausting, but it's not exhausting to watch. The breakneck onstage costume changes help him really convey the character's drive and desperation, there's probably one too many of them but they're fundamentally smart in telling the story.

[quote]Santino was fine in Tootsie, but the show didn't actually give him all that much to do.

It seemed to me that he had plenty to do, and he did win a Tony for his performance.

Why is it that everything Zaks directs feels like a rerun of Three's Company?

[quote] It seemed to me that he had plenty to do, and he did win a Tony for his performance.

People have won Tonys for doing even less.

r103 I know what you mean but if you see Doubtfire you'll see the difference. They just know how to show off their leading man way better and let him really run with it in a way that Fontana couldn't. Bottom line- I haver no problem picturing some non Equity actor with some skill doing the current Tootsie tour and it'll be the same, McClure seems uniquely himself.

Thanks, R106. I look forward to seeing DOUBTFIRE.

A Friday the 13th musical would be great. Jenn Colella as Mrs Voorhees singing "My Sweet Jason"

r107. Don't look forward to it. It's still CRAP

Dana Ivey seems like potentially good casting for Madame Leonora Armfohno. Was she not good?

Dorothy Collins auditioned for Leona and was the first choice of the entire creative team except for producer Richard Rodgers. He was fucking Elizabeth Allen so Collins never had a chance.

I've read contradictory things about whether director John Dexter wanted Collins or Allen but it didn't really matter. He decided early on he didn't like the show and left most of the work to his assistant Wakefield Poole.

Collins had great success in the part regionally and met her future husband Ron Holgate when she did a production that eventually played at Papermill.

If that's true about Rodgers and Allen, he was in his mid-60s. She got off easy, so to speak.

Rodgers was also a full blown alcoholic at that time. As was Dexter. Poole somehow held that show together out of town. Rodgers, Sondheim, Laurents and Dexter all hated each other by then and communicated by intermediaries.

Someone posted a slime tutorial of DOUBTFIRE last week (that's already been pulled or I'd link) and oof. Rob McClure tries his best but is given the unenviable task of playing not just a character created by Robin Williams but even has to do A LOT of Williams shtick ("I do different voices"). Was Jerry Zaks always the show's director or was he brought in a la Sister Act and Addams Family to reshape/tighten but not able to really do much to change the show.

[quote]And are you saying that EVERY new musical needs to "expand the form," "provide spectacle," or be "set against something better?" Frankly, it sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

Is that what it sounds like, r84? Whatever. Actually I wrote "set against something *bigger*"...you know...like the R&H successes, or Hamilton, or Phantom, or Wicked. What was the last *hit* musical done in the traditional book form? Hmmm?

[quote]--r57...talking out of my ass while I wait

Pics please.

[quote]What was the last *hit* musical done in the traditional book form? Hmmm?

HAIRSPRAY, THE BOOK OF MORMON, KINKY BOOTS, A GENTLEMAN'S GUIDE, DEAR EVAN HANSEN, and THE BAND'S VISIT, et al. are all basically traditional book musicals, even if some of them have non-traditional elements.

Sorry for my "bigger/better" typo, but I still think you have no idea what you're talking about.

I can't imagine the wonderfully warm Dorothy Collins could have ever played a character who was unlikeable. She obviously made the potentially annoying Sally Plummer very loveable.

I think by the early 1960s Dorothy was sadly mostly thought of as a relic of 1950s television trivia. I'd imagine not getting cast in expensive Broadway musicals was not too unexpected. I remember even when she and Alexis, Yvonne and Gene were announced as the stars of Follies it seemed like a crazy risk.

[quote]I can't imagine the wonderfully warm Dorothy Collins could have ever played a character who was unlikeable. She obviously made the potentially annoying Sally Plummer very loveable.

It's exactly that sort of foolish thinking that doomed DO I HEAR A WALTZ? Leona should come across as a woman who has character flaws but with whom we can empathize anyway, and like or even love her despite her neuroses. I imagine Collins was brilliant in the role when she got to play it, and that her warmth balanced the character's unpleasant qualities. Who knows, if she had created the role on Broadway, the show might have run longer despite its own flaws.

Collins had a slight lisp, as I recall people telling me from her "Your Hit Parade" days, so that could have been another of Ms. Samish's faults.

Exactly, r119. As misguided as the creators of WALTZ were at times, I doubt they thought of Leona as unlikable. Certainly the songs bring us someone romantic, starry-eyed, a bit desperate, and sometimes her worst enemy. But we're not supposed to be repelled by her.

BTW, I think Collins would have been better cast in BALLROOM rather than Loudon. Call me crazy.

Still would love to hear from someone who saw the original WALTZ.

Loudon really downplayed any kind of Miss Hanniganisms when she did "Ballroom". She was quite lovely, restrained (though, of course, she did a marvelous "50 Percent"), quite feminine and rather vulnerable in the role. The dance numbers were great, but they started to look like one another after a while, plus besides Vincent Gardenia's role, there weren't really much in the way of other supporting characters, other than being kind of stand-ins for a few lines here and there -- at least that's my recollection of it. Unlike the the tv movie, she didn't even die or have a death scene like Maureen Stapleton having a heart attack.

R121, Laurents may not have thought of Leona as essentially unlikable when they first wrote the show, but there were statements he made years later that sounded like that's exactly how he felt about her. Of course, he said a lot of incredibly strange things in his later life, so maybe it was due to some sort of mental deterioration, not just nastiness and bitterness.

I think Sondheim also has said some things in recent years that focused on Leona as not likeable, but I don't remember that for sure.

Maureen had a death scene, r123? I don't remember her having a death scene.

R124 IIRC, she dies in her sleep

I think she did, but it's been years since I saw "Queen of the Stardust Ballroom".

I haven't either, r126. My memory, however, is that she died in her sleep.

Everybody loves Cassie...

Collins was sublime in FOLLIES, and def should have won that Tony.

R122, I agree with all your comments about BALLROOM, including what you wrote about Loudon's performance. Whoever wrote here (I believe in the previous thead?) that she was "hammy" in that show was just spouting nonsense.

I also agree that one of the main problems of the show was that all the dance numbers did, indeed, start to look the same after awhile. And since they were presented as diegetic dances with no storytelling function, they also became very boring, even though they were beautiful to look at. Also, the writers weren't able to stretch out the plot for a full-length musical in a compelling enough way, and yes, it was a huge mistake not to have the Loudon character die at the end. I'm actually quite surprised that they made that change from the script of the TV film.

I think Alexis got it because she was tail-end Hollywood glamour, r129. Plus....the gams.

R125 is right. Mo died in her sleep. We saw the body, but there was no juicy “death” for her to play.

Mo cuts a rug...

Dorothy Collins was “second choice” for several Broadway musicals in the 60s pop She Loves Me and 110 in the Shade as well as Waltz. She wound up doing both She Loves Me & Waltz regionally and in stock, but I’m not sure if she ever got to do 110.

110 in the Shade makes a better case for a spinster musical because of the dynamic Starbuck.

I can't think of a musical that I want to see less than Doubtfire. Oh, Tootsie!

Thanks, [R106]. I look forward to seeing DOUBTFIRE.

Christ, why? Wouldn't it be less excruciating to jam a catheter up your piss slit?

I recently re-watched all of the original Bway production of Angels in America and I was really struck by how good Ellen McLaughlin was in Perestroika. She handled a very difficult role with command and it really sucks that she was the only actor in the cast who didn't score a Tony nomination for one or the other of the plays. And when you look at the anemic lineup of Featured Actress for 1994 (Debra Monk and Anne Pitoniak for Picnic, some broad I never heard of for The Kentucky Cycle and the inexplicable winner, Jane Adams for standing like a piece of wood in a period dress in An Inspector Calls) you can't tell me there wasn't room to nominate both McLaughlin and Kathleen Chalfant for a 2nd time (and give her the Tony, which she should have won over Monk the year before). Still dreadful and strident was Marcia Gay Harden, and I'm thrilled she wasn't nominated a 2nd time.

R138: where are you watching the original ANGELS IN AMERICA? Would love to see a recording of that original production.

I had to see it for some research at the library.

The restored song at R128 helps humanize Leona in DIHAW--too bad it's not better.

(Poor Alyson Reed. Someone should have told her that fitted red satin is not her friend. And the Mamie Eisenhower hairstyle wasn't helping, either.)

Sondheim famously said that DIHAW didn't work because it was a musical about a woman who couldn't/wouldn't sing. Which seems to say a lot about his limited view of the character.

I saw the original Do I Hear a Waltz, R121.

I thought it was wonderful, because it looked great--very unusual designs, as if seeing everything through a mist--and had an enjoyable score. It was also interesting in that there was an ensemble that all sorts of odd things but seldom sang and NEVER danced. They were great in the title song, all in very colorful costumes--carabinieri, tourists, a balloon seller ( think; it has been a long time since), and so on, all kind of interacting with the heroine.

She was the show's problem. Sergio Franchi was fine, with that operatic tenor of his, but Elizabeth Allen was too strong as Leona. She's supposed to be wounded bird, and her vulnerability is why she turns on everyone near the end. But with Allen it just seemed mean. Bullying, even.

Dorothy Collins would have been perfect, and the show would have done better. It wouldn't have been a hit, though, because it's so odd.

^^^that DID all sorts of odd things.

R137, maybe this is naive of me, but I'd like to think that if MRS. DOUBTFIRE were THAT bad, it wouldn't have gotten to Broadway. I don't expect it to be a great musical, but neither do I expect it to be excruciating We'll see!

[quote]Sondheim famously said that DIHAW didn't work because it was a musical about a woman who couldn't/wouldn't sing. Which seems to say a lot about his limited view of the character.

Yes, chalk that up as another one of his quotable pronouncements that may sound very smart at first hearing but don't really stand up to scrutiny.

Speaking of Horror Musicals, how about Bat Boy? Zombie Prom? Dance of the Vampires? (a true horror).

[quote] [R137], maybe this is naive of me, but I'd like to think that if MRS. DOUBTFIRE were THAT bad, it wouldn't have gotten to Broadway. I don't expect it to be a great musical, but neither do I expect it to be excruciating We'll see!

Yeah, that is naive. Or you're very easily entertained.

[quote] some broad I never heard of for The Kentucky Cycle

you're all class r138. And is your not having heard of her a mark of anything except your own limited knowledge? She's an acclaimed regional actress, as was most of the cast.

She was a cunt, r142.

So, basically BALLROOM was a chamber musical trapped in an extravaganza?

Thanks, r142! Appreciate it. I've always heard it was a visually gorgeous experience. One of the handful of shows I wish I had seen. Saw shows in '64 and '66 but missed the year of WALTZ, SIXPENCE, ROAR/SMELL, etc. Fortunately, had seen FIDDLER pre-Broadway.

To me, EVERY musical is a "why?" musical until it's not.

Polly Pen has written at least three chamber musicals -- Goblin Market, Bed & Sofa and Christina Alberta's Father, all well received off-Broadway.

WHET Polly Pen?

[quote]Rodgers, Sondheim, Laurents and Dexter all hated each other by then and communicated by intermediaries.

No wonder. It's as if Andy Hardy said, "Let's round up all the prickliest pricks we can find and put on a show!"

[quote]Yeah, that is naive. Or you're very easily entertained.

OR...just maybe you're a bitchy, negative, pretentious twit, R146.

[quote] Fortunately, had seen FIDDLER pre-Broadway.

[quote] Collins was sublime in FOLLIES,

[quote] I saw the original Do I Hear a Waltz

you all so old

Isn't it wonderful, r156?

Meanwhile, for those of us living 2021....What's the word on Kimberly Akimbo? Is Garth's folly going to make it out of Chicago? Will Doubtfire get enough reviews to get some real sales, or will it just "Tootsie" out? (Maybe another Carol Burnett ad?). Which new musicals are selling tickets? North Country? Jagged? Caroline? How many shows will close in January?

And what would Dorothy Collins/Louden think of all this?

[quote]Collins was sublime in FOLLIES, and def should have won that Tony.

FOLLIES!

[quote] you're all class [R138]. And is your not having heard of her a mark of anything except your own limited knowledge? She's an acclaimed regional actress, as was most of the cast.

Are you fucking kidding? No one ever heard of her. She went from obscurity to a flop run, a wasted Tony nomination and right back to obscurity. I couldn't even remember her name, and I highly doubt anyone else could pick her out of a lineup, even with her name emblazoned across her t-shirt, Merrily style.

[quote] OR...just maybe you're a bitchy, negative, pretentious twit, [R146].

I have no problem with that. It's better than being the type who looks forward to sitting through Doubtfire.

Well, smell r161.

[quote]If Rob McClure gets naked in Mrs. Doubtfire, I’m in.

The fisting number runs a bit long, but it's been awhile since I saw a rusty trombone in triplicate, so there's that.

“Everybody Loves Leona” is a really rotten song, one of the worst ever for both Rodgers *and* Sondheim. It was cut because it was not nearly as effective as the monologue that Laurents wrote for that place.

Rodgers insisted on this change: during the party scene, Jennifer goes to get some more food, and Leona begins her drunken rant. When she blabs about Jennifer’s hubby Eddie screwing Fioria, she doesn’t realize that Jennifer has returned and hears her. In the original version (restored by Laurents), Jennifer never leaves and Leona deliberately tells her about her husband’s infidelity. I

This is about Leona Helmsley? With THAT title? What were they thinking?

R153 Polly Pen is still working on a bunch of projects and also teaches at NYU.

[quote]Polly Pen is still working on a bunch of projects and also teaches at NYU.

Is that her pen name?

Any one seen “Flying over Sunset”?

[quote]It's better than being the type who looks forward to sitting through Doubtfire.

I'm looking forward to seeing it because I think there's a decent chance that the writing and the production might be good, but mostly because McClure's performance is getting raves even from people who don't like the show overall. Sorry if you don't think that's enough justification for looking forward to seeing a show, you sour, bitter, condescending fool.

Of course, you probably get comps for being McClure's publicist.

I’m confused, isn’t Rob McClure a character on The Simpsons?

Here are clips (without sound unfortunately) but in color of the original production of "Do I Hear a Waltz?" There's quite a bit of dancing during the title song (around 5:30 or so).

The thing about a lot of the film-to-stage adaptations listed above is that they're not good enough to justify being put on stage. That isn't to say that they're not artful, or that they've not been made by skilled individuals, but at best they're just brand extensions. Tootsie, Pretty Woman, Mrs Doubtfire, the fucking godawful Back to the Future currently running in London - their entire purpose is to serve as mnemonic for the source material, and to generate the same (nostalgic) affect. They have no other reason for existing. They're pieces of merchandise, and nothing more. And as this is the commercial theatre - yeah, sure, why not? The commercial theatre exists to make money, and if they can carve out a profit form a lacklustre adaptation of a film from the last century - more power to them. But these examples are rarely any good, and it's because they don't need to be.

There are film-to-stage adaptations that are really great musicals - Hairspray, The Band's Visit, Once - and there may be something in the fact that these can be their own stage beasts as they're adaptations of non-mainstream films, as so the need to duplicate an existing brand and merely reaffirm the expectations of an audience is less of a requirement. (The musical of Hairspray has become far more of a brand than Waters' original ever was, despite its cult status.) And Disney adaptations are a different game altogether.

I just don't get why anybody would pony up the cash to sit through a musical adaptation of Mrs Doubtfire when you can watch the non-musical version at home for a fraction of the cost as the experience won't be that different, especially as it has been specifically designed to not be. So regardless of McClure's effortless charms, even $49 feels like a lot to justify a piece of transient merchandise - especially when it has to be experienced in a mask and in an ongoing pandemic.

[quote]OR...just maybe you're a bitchy, negative, pretentious twit, R146.

[quote]I have no problem with that. It's better than being the type who looks forward to sitting through Doubtfire.

[quote]I'm looking forward to seeing it because I think there's a decent chance that the writing and the production might be good, but mostly because McClure's performance is getting raves even from people who don't like the show overall. Sorry if you don't think that's enough justification for looking forward to seeing a show

Kinda with r169 here. I'm not likely to see Doubtfire myself, but I could understand why someone else would. Hell, I saw Zhivago just to see Tom Hewitt. It was truly terrible, but worth every minute.

Thanks r174. Who doesn't like a bunch of dancing Bolsheviks and pleasant peasants?

[quote]Thanks [R174]. Who doesn't like a bunch of dancing Bolsheviks and pleasant peasants?

It really was awful, r175, but I will watch Hewitt in anything. I find him very interesting (plus he is a very nice guy).

Rocky Horror revival opened 21 years ago yesterday.

Zhivago was one of the worst shows I've ever seen; left at intermission. Flying Over Sunset is a close competitor. Saw the first preview, so there's time for changes, but I can't imagine anything saving this misguided project, although it would greatly help to remove one number that will live in theatrical infamy if it makes it to the finish line. (I'll let you discover it for yourself.) It will definitely appeal to the legion of Claire Booth Luce and Aldous Huxley fans, but other than that: DOA.

so.... The Visitor.... Flying Over Sunset.... If/Then.... Bring It On.... High Fidelity.

What do we think of Tom Kitt's oeuvre?

Oh please, tell us about a potentially infamous number -- Ken Mandelbaum hasn't written about Broadway flops for years.

[quote]Of course, you probably get comps for being McClure's publicist.

And you're probably a loathsome troll. Make that "definitely."

[quote]There are film-to-stage adaptations that are really great musicals - Hairspray, The Band's Visit, Once - and there may be something in the fact that these can be their own stage beasts as they're adaptations of non-mainstream films, as so the need to duplicate an existing brand and merely reaffirm the expectations of an audience is less of a requirement. (The musical of Hairspray has become far more of a brand than Waters' original ever was, despite its cult status.) And Disney adaptations are a different game altogether.

Good point. THE FULL MONTY is another example of an excellent musical adapted from a non-mainstream film. But....

[quote]I just don't get why anybody would pony up the cash to sit through a musical adaptation of Mrs Doubtfire when you can watch the non-musical version at home for a fraction of the cost.

Because there HAVE been SOME great musicals adapted from very popular, mainstream films. And if it happened before, even if not very often, there's no reason why it can't happen again.

[quote]What do we think of Tom Kitt's oeuvre?

I'm more interested in Tom KATT'S oeuvre.

LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS is another stage musical adapted from a (non-mainstream, cult) film that expands upon and improves the source material in multiple ways. The show is beloved not only by audiences but also by other musical theatre writers, particularly younger generations. (Many have attempted to musicalize B- horror flicks but without the same success.)

I actually quite enjoyed "Batboy: The Musical." I've seen it three times -- at either both community theaters and college theaters.

R156-Yes, we're so old and so less knowledgable than you youngsters about the theatre, as opposed to you, who thinks RENT was the greatest musical you've ever seen, right up there with BE MORE CHILL. Instead of degrading those of us who attended shows that were crafted well, and meant something, perhaps you should shut your tight little gob and learn something about the history of the American theatre instead of seeing WICKED and PHANTOM 50 times or more because you're so classy and educated.

Thank you. Rant over. Now get off our fucking lawns.

R180 Aren't Santino Fontana and Rob McClure kind of interchangeable?

If not his publicist, his BFF or agent?

Tick...Tick...Boom was always a better musical than RENT. This new film is proving that.

Why can’t we have a MOMMIE DEAREST musical?

This is censorship!

Rob McClure is a major comic talent. Santino doesn’t have the comic chops that McClure has.

[quote] maybe this is naive of me, but I'd like to think that if MRS. DOUBTFIRE were THAT bad, it wouldn't have gotten to Broadway.

Here's the thing: Mrs. Doubtfire is, above all else, a professionally staged production. The lights are fine, there's a clever set, and everyone knows their lines. This is the horror of it, actually. It's utterly witless, but it's good enough for non-discriminating audiences that it will have a tour (non-equity probably) and lots of amateur productions. When I saw it, the audience was laughing at a lot of non funny lines. I asked my friend, and he said those lines were from the movie.

Even the truly rotten Addams Family, also staged by the ruthlessly competent Jerry Zaks, is huge in amateur productions.

More wretched screen to stage adaptations:

PRETTY WOMAN

GHOST

MEAN GIRLS

THE WEDDING SINGER

LEGALLY BLONDE

and three more that have circled the provinces but have (so far) not hit Broadway:

AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN

DIRTY DANCING

EVER AFTER

[quote]you should shut your tight little gob and learn something about the history of the American theatre

MARY!

[quote]Aren't Santino Fontana and Rob McClure kind of interchangeable?

To the undiscerning, perhaps.

Correct me if I'm wrong, r191, but isn't the Addams Family script available for rent different (improved?) than the Broadway production? And, r183, has Little Shop been successful on Broadway?

McClure wasn't particularly memorable in "Honeymoon In Vegas" and was just ok in 'Irma La Douce", even in his parts without his vasty miscast leading lady.

Vasty, r196? Was she plus-sized?

vastly

Vastly vasty?

"Irma" would have been prime Karen Ziemba (or even Donna McKechnie) material if the revival had been done maybe a decade prior. They got some chorus girl who hadn't much stage presence, plus you got a director all at sea with the material (which wasn't "Dames at Sea" either), plus the choreography didn't make much of an impact, especially without a suitable leading lady. Rob McClure's part is fun based on the OCR and even the Jack Lemmon-Shirley MacLaine film, but he didn't make too much of an impression.

She had a vastly vasty absence of presence in the role.

[quote] I’m confused, isn’t Rob McClure a character on The Simpsons?

Hi, I’m Rob McClure. You might know me from such musicals as Stop The Planet Of The Apes, I Want To Get Off! and Chaplin!

Legally Blonde may not be a great musical, but it is a cut above the others mentioned. I thought it was musicalized well and didn't slavishly follow the film.

LEGALLY BLONDE is a terrific musical, and a good adaptation from the original material.

R203 R204 Agree, it is fun.

[quote]If not his publicist, his BFF or agent?

I have never met Rob McClure, and he's certainly not my client. I'm a supporter of him because I think he's very talented, having seen him in all of his NYC shows. As for you, you probably have no friends, let alone a BFF. And I expect you have no agent because you have zero talent in any field. Much love to you :-)

[quote]More wretched screen to stage adaptations: PRETTY WOMAN, GHOST, MEAN GIRLS, THE WEDDING SINGER, LEGALLY BLONDE

I agree with you about the first two, but I didn't think MEAN GIRLS was terrible (though I wouldn't say it was good), and I really enjoyed LEGALLY BLONDE despite some missteps in the writing. As for THE WEDDING SINGER, I thought from the beginning and still think it's a very well written, highly entertaining show with some very catchy, excellent songs. I still don't understand why it flopped on Broadway, and I've been happy to see that it has received countless productions in schools, community theaters, etc.

Wrong on all accounts, but it's nice someone is paying for his name alone to see him. Didn't help "Chaplin" or "Honeymoon in Vegas" last long.

So Rob McClure IS a character on The Simpsons!

RE: DO I HEAR A WALTZ? and Elizabeth Allen. In addition to all of the creative team seemingly working on totally different shows and not agreeing, John Dexter was notorious for treating the women like shit. The men were fine but the women were invisible. It all came to a big blowout when it was announced that a rehearsal was to be done in front of an invited audience of some Broadway folk. Allen completely lost it, as she felt she and the show were absolutely not ready to be seen yet, and she and Dexter got into a huge screaming match in front of the entire cast, where he ended up telling her to fuck off. They didn't speak to one another until the opening week in New York. When your leading lady and director are Not talking to each other starting out of town, one is bound to get lost in the debris. Elizabeth Allen received so-so reviews, most of them saying she was too cold and distant in the role. Although I did not see the show, I can imagine that Allen, without a director at her side and a fighting creative team surrounding her, that she most likely was trying to protect herself emotionally, holding back with insecurity and fear. This came out like fireworks in her performance.

Hopefully Dexter treated those nuns all right in his famous production of "Dialogues of the Carmelites" at the Met. Otherwise, I heard he was especially involved in the casting of Alan Strang for "Equus" and the good-looking guys who played the horses.

[quote] Even the truly rotten Addams Family, also staged by the ruthlessly competent Jerry Zaks, is huge in amateur productions.

I saw a high school production which was actually competently done. I was flabbergasted, however, that this had had a bway run. Stupid show

I thought THE WEDDING SINGER was terrible, musicalizing the wrong moments, and pushing the best moments in the movie from charming to over the top unbearable. The same thing could be said of HONEYMOON IN VEGAS and BULLETS OVER BROADWAY.

Well, R212, I disagree with you about THE WEDDING SINGER. Can you please give a some examples of how you feel the writers of that show "musicalized the wrong moments?"

Celebration!

Curtain call

D'OH.

NPR finally broke the story that the Times has been sitting on for years.

Worst kept secret on Bway.

R216, you are a bit confused. The story that the Times has reportedly been sitting on for years apparently focused on directors, choreographers, etc., not on William Ivey Long -- but there was a Buzzfeed article that went after Long specifically, and that was in 2018. See link.

Who's to say that William Ivey Long wasn't accused along with those directors and choreographers, r217? As a matter of fact, he led the "etc." you mentioned, I have it on good authority.

So, I guess if Patti is nominated as Best Featured Actress (as she should be) she'll be a lock for a Tony? But one can never trust Tony eligibility rules year to year, so who knows?

She's above the title, but, you never know with awards committees.

Maybe if they put Joanne in a wheelchair ...

I was at Company last night. One of the most exciting nights in the theater I’ve experienced. Comparable to Chicago at Encores, and seeing the original productions of Chorus Line and Chicago back in 1975. Yes, I’m old.

Jerry Zaks would be wise to revive his '92 'Guys and Dolls'. Throw some bankable (likeable!) stage and screen stars splitting the 4 leads...would be a license to print money!

r222, I saw Company in London and, while I loved it as a very special event, I had lots of quibbles with the production - mainly that it didn't have any honest feeling for New York or New Yorkers, and issues with a lot of the casting that made it incomprehensible that the chic hip Bobbi would have been friends with any of those people and their spouses.

But I'm excited to see it here again and hoping that being produced in NY, it will feel more New York. From that wonderful clip of the curtain call at r215, it looks more than promising!

Yes, r223, just don't hire William Ivey Long to recreate his costumes!

[quote]Who's to say that William Ivey Long wasn't accused along with those directors and choreographers, [R217]? As a matter of fact, he led the "etc." you mentioned, I have it on good authority.

What I meant was that, according to all reports, the NY Times article that has not yet appeared was going to cover allegations against several people in several different areas of theater, not just William Ivey Long. So R216's comment that "NPR finally broke the story that the Times has been sitting on for years" is not quite accurate.

R222 Lucky you. I saw it in London a week after it opened and loved it! R219 R220 She got Olivier as a supporting actress.

with Sharon D. Clarke in the running and no way to put katrina in supporting, they will do everyting in their power to put Patti there and they will succeed

From what I saw at Encores Leona is a creep. Horrible, desperate and selfish. Completely without sympathy. The only person to bring any beauty to the show was Rodgers with some of his shimmering music. But Sondheim and Laurents at their bitchiest certainly were determined to do him in and it is obvious as the score goes on he was in despair barely working on it. Leona was such an unpleasant character it inspired nothing in him but contempt and a lot of drinking.

Sondheim saying that it couldn't be a musical because Leona can't sing shows you a great artist at a very low point.

r185 Thanks so much! Somehow, "being old" and having seen great works on Broadway is wrong, sinful, and dumb.

[quote] She got Olivier as a supporting actress

Despite all the rumors about my sexuality, I was NEVER a supporting actress!

r156 here and apologies if anyone took my "old" comment as an insult or slam. I truly only meant it as a statement of fact. You all have see a LOT of stuff from long ago. No judgements on that though but it is really something

Is English your first language, r232?

Everyone is abuzz about...

SUFFS!

[quote]Suffs is described as follows: "In the seven years leading up to the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920, an impassioned group of suffragists—"Suffs" as they called themselves—took to the streets, pioneering protest tactics that transformed the country. They risked their lives as they clashed with the president, the public, and each other. A thrilling story of brilliant, flawed women working against and across generational, racial, and class divides, Suffs boldly explores the victories and failures of a fight for equality that is still far from over."

It might actually be good. But SUFFS is the worst, most unmusical title for a musical I've heard in recent memory.

R235, I had the same first reaction -- but that was before I read that "suffs" is how these women actually referred to themselves, and that changed my mind a bit. If they had called the musical SUFFRAGETTE, it would have been confused with that excellent movie. Maybe they could have called it VOTES FOR WOMEN, and that would have been striking.

If there's one story I want to see dramatized, as a musical, no less, it's that of women's suffrage. Will everyone list their pronouns in their bios?

Oh hell, just call it Bloomer Girl!

and now fuck you r232, I was trying to be nice.

I meant r233

Moving on...

GALS GETTIN' RIGHTS!

SUFFRAGETTE CITY

VOTING VIXENS

Does anyone remember the enormous Broadway musical flop about suffragettes called ONWARD VICTORIA? Late 1970s or early 1980s IIRC.

OK, read the NPR WIL article and I’m a bit confused about this Lost Colony production. He is still listed prominently on the website for the costume design. The Board of Directors and Staff look like listing for the Globe Theater, not some local summer attraction. From what I gather they’ve been putting on the same show since 1937. The website still refers to the indigenous people as Natives. It looks like the Native American equivalent of a Minstrel Show and something one should be deeply embarrassed by.

If it’s the same show forever, what is WIL’s reason to be in residence each summer beyond sprucing up the costumes at the start of the season, something anyone else in wardrobe could do. And what need is there for new set design, why so much heavy backstage crew support for a dog and pony show running in perpetuity? This whole thing looks very suspect and skeevy.

I assume Miss Jill Eikenberry does, r243.

The Lost Colony has always been nothing more than glorified community theatre. William grew up with it as his parents participated in the show as actors and technicians. But as William became more famous he was able to raise money (or more likely put some of his own in) to create new sets and costumes, presumably with more flair and glitz than they'd seen before..

Didn't Winnifred Banks cover suffragette stuff in "Mary Poppins" already?

There's a cast recording of Onward, Victoria but it's been out of print on vinyl and CD for years. I have no idea whether it's available for streaming. A friend who loves the show gave me the CD for my birthday but I've never listened to it.

The Lost Colony has been revised and remounted many times over the years. It hasn't been a static production.

Back in the early 70s I played Ambrose in a local NC production of Dolly. One of our waiters was leaving a few days after the closing to play an Indian in The Lost Colony. He was 6'2" but hairy as a gorilla so we gave him a going away party -- a shaving party. Best cast party I've ever attended.

Where is the Vision

Will William Ivey Long be present at tonight's 25th Anniversary Celebration for CHICAGO?

He's attending with the sadist music director

Will the widowed husband of the dead Miss Mary Sunshine be attending the Chicago reunion?

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1981, "Merrily We Roll Along" opened at the Alvin Theatre.

Merrily...

the reviews

[quote]If there's one story I want to see dramatized, as a musical, no less, it's that of women's suffrage. Will everyone list their pronouns in their bios?

Did you perhaps leave a rather important word out of your first sentence? Or were you trying to be sarcastic?

R256=literal Larry

The grandmother of a friend from college was over the wardrobe dept at the Lost Colony. I actually thought the fire was earlier. NC has a lot of outdoor dramas. I grew up here but only have seen one. The one I really wanted to see was HORN IN THE WEST (probably due to the loincloths on those “Indians”) but if I remember correctly, at some point, that script was revised to a more PC version.

It was a rite of passage for the theater majors from college to work at the Lost Colony. I read the script when I was a kid, but I have no memory of it except I think it in verse. I would think TLC was still a step or two above the other ones.

The one I did see, on the other hand, was very amateurish. I believe the music was pre-recorded and the cast lip-synched. I went with a girl I worked with (we both had a crush on a boy who was in the show) and we were bored senseless.

Celeste...

The original opening sequence of "Merrily," with Rich and Happy, is much, much better than the awful "That Frank" that Sondheim wrote later. I'd heard that Sondheim insists that "That Frank" be used, but supposedly "Rich and Happy" was back in that off-Broadway production a couple of years ago, from the company with the weird name.

Virgil Thomson and Gertrude Stein wrote a great and accessible opera about the Suffs, THE MOTHER OF US ALL.

Mother...

R158 YOU pay 100s of dollars for community theater.

R258 Wait, William Ivy Long set fire to the costumes at The Colony so he could get a chance to redo them all over again?

I even prefer the original graduation bookends, r260

The show was a mess the day it opened and closed, but it’s even more of a mess now.

Did you see the part in the NPR article where WIL’s lawyer claimed one of the accusers must be lying because he sent WIL a couple of Christmas cards 20 years ago?

WIL must be desperate if that’s the best kind of defense he can muster.

But am I correct in assuming that no legal accusations have been made against WIL in a court of law? Does anyone think that will happen or are the events of the accusations too long in the past now? I suppose just the horrible publicity will be enough to keep WIL from designing on Broadway again and perhaps that's the worst punishment.

Local CBS evening news just covered the Chicago 25th year anniversary performance. Lots and lots of vets of the show there. Neuwirth came out onstage to deliver the opening bit of dialog:

[quote]Ladies and gentleman you are about to see a story of murder, greed, corruption, violence, exploitation, adultery and treachery—all those things we all hold near and dear to our hearts.

Many former cast members and audience members talked about this being the first time they were back to Broadway since the shut down and how thrilled they were to be there. And there were some hot younger guys in the ensemble. Very sweet.

So is this the first time the audience contained English speaking people since 2005?

SUFFS is like a parody of what a hip, downtown theater would be staging in this pathetic “woke” era. Also…Shaina Taub is only a so-so talent at best.

Revive the classic dyke musical STAT.

I guess one reason I posted about the Chicago performance was because it used to e so common for local NYC stations to cover Broadway as part of their regular news coverage. Back in the 70s and 80s, most stations reviewed Broadway shows on their opening nights, either with a regular critic or an overall entertainment editor. See R255 for opening night TV reviews of Merrily.

That's all gone. Megahits Rent, Wicked and Hamilton got some coverage but Broadway and musicals are now considered as moribund as art forms as operetta and there is little to no coverage. It's sad.

[quote]I even prefer the original graduation bookends, R260

So do I. The title song at least had some context then. In the most recent versions, everyone comes on singing "Merrily We Roll Along" for no reason. It must as well been replaced with a song called "This Is Our Opening Number."

I would say of the local NYC stations, the ones that are fairly good about covering Broadway are Channels 2, 7 and 11. And of course NY1 still has "On Stage" with DL fave Frank DiLella.

Channel 2 still covers the occasional Broadway special event (as R272 notes above), Channel 7 has those occasional "Broadway Backstage" specials, and Channel 11 airs the weekly "Broadway Show with Tamsen Fadal," so that's better than nothing I suppose.

I saw the original Merrily the last week of previews and agree it works much better with the opening and closing bookends. Gives the show and its themes more context, especially musically. ESPECIALLY musically Sondheim's intricately constructed musical structure falls apart without them. But the production overall, despite some wonderful elements, sucked. My group and I left the theater saying to each other "What the fuck just happened?"

Broadway sucks. If I want to be lectured to, I will go to church. I will feel the guilt and won't have to pay hundreds of dollars.

over & over

[quote] Speaking of Horror Musicals, how about Bat Boy? Zombie Prom?

I saw Zombie Prom. It tried to be a combination of Little Shop of Horrors and a Howard Crabtree musical. It was best performed off-Broadway and best for high school, college and community theater.

So how bad will the DIANA reviews be? And does it matter?

In the NY Times, Supreme Douche Bag Lapine claims Sondheim turned down the job of composing the score of Flying Over Sunset and "regrets it now". The show is a long, boring slog of a "musical" with no point to it. Typical JL crap. Tedious.

Sondheim is probably crying in his oat milk.

Flogging a submissive is a good way to get over regrets.

Good for Sondheim. He was also at Company restart and Assassins opening.

At age 90whatever Sondheim would be wise to stop writing and just be in attendance, gratefully honored, at all of his constant glorious revivals. How many American geniuses were celebrated and appreciated and respected and beloved like him in their elder years? Tennessee Williams certainly wasn't and it was because he kept on churning out inferior work.

I’m sure Sondheim is just blowing smoke up Lapine’s ass about “regretting it now.” That’s what friends and collaborators do. He didn’t agree to write the show because he likely felt it wasn’t right for him—or wasn’t a very good idea.

Interestingly, there is a VERY long dialogue scene in FOS that had the principals in discussion. It's the four of them sitting a table and not moving. I thought at the time that Sondheim could have made quite a wonderful musicalization of these disparate voices. Instead we get talk talk talk. I doubt very much that Sondheim regrets not doing it; if Lapine is lying, he should be ashamed.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1994, "Sunset Boulevard" opened at the Minskoff Theatre.

Who will die first-Sondheim or the Queen?

Well the Queen cancelled Company so I think she'll go first.

I'm sure Lapine isn't lying. Sondheim was just being nice to him when he said it.

[quote]Suffs is described as follows: "In the seven years leading up to the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920, an impassioned group of suffragists—"Suffs" as they called themselves—took to the streets, pioneering protest tactics that transformed the country. They risked their lives as they clashed with the president, the public, and each other. A thrilling story of brilliant, flawed women working against and across generational, racial, and class divides, Suffs boldly explores the victories and failures of a fight for equality that is still far from over."

R235 & R236 that SUFFS musical sounds like the 2004 HBO film IRON JAWED ANGELS with Hilary Swank, Patrick Dempsey, and Anjelica Houston. It covers the same time period of the U.S. suffrage movement (c. 1913-1920) focusing mainly on trailblazers Alice Paul and Lucy Burns and their radical tactics to get American women the vote. It's actually pretty good. I enjoyed it more than SUFFRAGETTE. Anyway, why didn't they musicalize that movie? Plus, it has a better, intriguing title, which is what these young suffragettes were mockingly called.

I don't want to see any of those women in the cast announcement "act"

Casting Hilary Swank as a lead in something called IRON JAWED ANGELS seems a bit cruel.

No oil painting, she.

Isherwood: "Diana," a musical so bad that it must be seen:

Remember, EVITA was crucified by the critics, too.

R293 Well, at least he trying to draw an audience for it. I do hope someone call it “Underestimated.”

[quote]Who will die first-Sondheim or the Queen?

Shouldn't that be: "Which queen will die first?"

EVITA wasn't crucified. It got mixed to negative reviews. There was an appreciation for the score, and there is none for the Diana score.

Is there a scene in DIANA where she throws herself down the stairs in song?

Because I’d like to see that.

Is there a dream ballet, coup de theatre, or gams?

"DIANA, a musical.....that....must be seen!"

Charles Isherwood, Broadwaynews.com

[quote]it must be seen

Pull quote!

What would Merrick do?

Have Harry and Meghan impersonators prominently in the audience.

He would, r303...

“Diana, the new musical which just opened at the Longacre Theatre, is not "good" by cis-hetero-patriarchal standards of quality. “

R305 is that an actual quote? 😂 JFC

The woke sure love their labels, don't they?

Whatever the fuck this site is

Interesting, R307. Never heard of that site before.

[quote]In the NY Times, Supreme Douche Bag Lapine claims Sondheim turned down the job of composing the score of Flying Over Sunset and "regrets it now".

What a perfect description of him! From now on I'll refer to him as S.D.B. Lapine, in your honor :-)

Bull. Merrick’s not that crazy.

Interesting, WIL did turn up at CHICAGO’s big 25th anniversary celebration last night and was even on stage at one point with some of the other creatives.

But the show’s Instagram account is clearly taking great pains not to share any photos of him, despite posting like two dozen other photos from the event.

Bring back...

I saw Kate Flannery play Neely when VOD played at the old downtown Circle in the Square and she was hilarious.

[quote]Is there a scene in DIANA where she throws herself down the stairs in song?

No, that was the investors at the opening night party.

Ed Bullins, Leading Playwright of the Black Arts Movement, Dies at 86:

Jude Law would be perfect to play Ed Bullins on Broadway.

[quote] I saw Kate Flannery play Neely when VOD played at the old downtown Circle in the Square and she was hilarious.

I saw that too! Was that the Theater-a-go-go version?

So the January closing list is: Diana, Jagged, Girl from North Country, and every play but Mockingbird?

I'm very curious about Moulin Rouge's business. It seems like that show would have to be selling out with lots of premium seating to cover its weekly costs. Anyone know how it's doing?

Is Danny back in Moulin Rouge?

I'd add MRS. DOUBTFIRE (or whatever they're calling it) to the list of January closings. Even if it hasn't opened yet.

Well, maybe it'll make it to March.

I wonder if unions and/or theatre owners are going to make serious concessions just to keep the lights on. Or producers. Maybe this is where the dam breaks.

r322, while the generosity might be nice, I don't really see the point of extending. When an unpopular show limps along for months, just put it out of its misery. Business never picks up.

Not always. The Wiz got mixed reviews and just limped along for several months until Ease on Down the Road hit Top Ten.

You're talking about a show from almost 50 years ago, r324. Times have changed and TV commercials really don't have that kind of potential any more.

R325 give me a chance and I'll let you see how nothing has changed!

It wasn't the TV commercials. It was the Fire Island and Manhattan DJs playing Road off the cast album that made the song a hit. Initially they did it at the end of. the evening to move people out of the house.

I saw Kate at Ralphs a couple years ago, r313. I told told her she would always be my Neely. I think she was happy I knew her from something other than The Office. She said it was the most fun of anything she'd done.

Those Dory Previn songs from VOTD really hold up, don't they?

I think they stink.

You weren't fond of this one, were you, Mia?

Wow!

I really loved Girl from the North Country at the Public, but I don’t see how it survives in this era. It resonated under Trump, but Americans don’t want to be reminded of real suffering right now . They are too busy complaining in agonizing pain about inflation on things they can afford.

First saw GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY inn London where it was a West End hit. Liked it, didn't love it, the story-telling completely missed the mark evoking Depression era working class people in a boarding house in Minnesota. The British cast, with no help from director or designers, seemed to make no attempt to look or sound American or 1930s but then, why set Dylan's music in Minnesota in the Depression? But I bought the CD and became very fond of it and then saw the show again at The Public pre-pandemic with an American cast, which helped a lot with the period setting.

So.....finally, a sweet (but sad) show but I can't imagine general audiences getting lured in. The PR hasn't seemed to connect Bob Dylan to this show for whatever reason but then do any Broadway audiences care about Bob Dylan?

R334 I don't think so. The Times They Are a-Changin' flopped big time in 2006.

Do we think FOLLIES would make it past January?

R336, FOLLIES is STILL running in the minds of many DLers.

Forget "The Girl From the North Country" -- I'm writing a DL musical called "The Boy in North."

I didn't care for GIRL/NORTH COUNTRY (TGFTNC?). I liked the Dylan songs very much and thought they were well done, but the story is such a downer and so uninvolving (and dull). I can't imagine how the producers thought this would make money on Broadway.

I agree that it'll be gone by early January.

They need to read the room. People aren't in the mood for a downer at present. I know I'm not.

Has "Grease" been canceled? (Sorry, link is to the Post)

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1990, a revival of "Fiddler on the Roof" opened at the Gershwin Theatre.

R341 -- Let's hope not. Paramount + just greenlit a new prequel series based on the franchise for their platform. God forbid shows explore values and attitudes of a different era for the sake of interesting drama/conflict/gender dynamics. It's a fucking period piece.

Next thing you know they'll be cancelling Oscar Wilde and Noel Coward. SMH.

The domestic violence in Private Lives goes above and beyond, r343.

Also, the Dylan songs often have nothing to do with what's going on onstage. They're pretty though, but the story part is really dull.

They're gonna love a GRIND revival!

[quote]They need to read the room. People aren't in the mood for a downer at present. I know I'm not.

Exactly. People want escapism. They want to be entertained. All this gloom & doom stuff that Hollywood and Broadway have been spewing lately doesn't cut it. They need to go back to how they lifted people's spirits during the Great Depression and WWII. That is the remedy we all need. If only for a few hours.

I loved Girl/Country at the Public and I'm seeing again next week.

[quote]Exactly. People want escapism.

And gams!

Good luck seeing them at the Mark Hellinger, r349

Ankles A Wow!

I see pull quotes haven't gotten any better.

[quote]That's all gone. Megahits Rent, Wicked and Hamilton got some coverage but Broadway and musicals are now considered as moribund as art forms as operetta and there is little to no coverage. It's sad.

What utter nonsense! Broadway isn't dead. It's just living on a farm upstate where it can be free and play in the fields.

Broadway deserves the death penalty.

[quote]I didn't care for GIRL/NORTH COUNTRY (TGFTNC?). I liked the Dylan songs very much and thought they were well done, but the story is such a downer and so uninvolving (and dull). I can't imagine how the producers thought this would make money on Broadway.

Because, unaccountably, it got rave reviews for the production at the Public, and was a big hit there. I attended one night well after those raves came out, and yet, the audience response to the show was tepid at best -- which mirrored my own reaction. As I was leaving, I heard one usher say to another, "What was with the audience tonight?" I wanted to reply, "There was nothing wrong with the audience, I guess we just decided on our own that the reviews were BS and we didn't like the show because it's really not good."

[quote][R336], FOLLIES is STILL running in the minds of many DLers.

I know. I see it all, it's like a movie in my head that plays and plays. It isn't just the bad things I remember. It's the whole damn show.

^^ kooky Blythe Danner?

How many years of NY Times raves NOT translating into hit runs is it going to take for producers to realize that we're living in a new reality? That era ended a looooong time ago.

Like him or not, Frank Rich was the last NY Times critic who could write a review that would compel you to buy a ticket. Ben Brantley tried to write with the same muscle (leading to nonsense stuff like "Bow down citizens of Broadway"), but his reviews really started to become opaque and scattered in his later years on the job. Jesse Green, a great features writer, is a complete catastrophe as lead critic. The Times still has more influence than other outlets when they rave about something, but it's a fraction of the power they once wielded.

I’ve never understood the whole process of pulling, hopefully good, journalists in and making them arts critics. Critics should come from a writing background with philosophical roots more so then journalism and they should also have a foundation in the art form that they are writing about to begin with and be very well versed in its history and works. Most of all I hate book critics who just by virtue of having written a book themselves somehow are deemed perfect to write reviews of other books, they are usually too limited and narcissistic to do a good job. Where are the reviewers who are actually professional critics and have been trained as such?

There is no "training" for critics. It is too small a profession to make creating such a program worthwhile.

R360 All those philosophy major need to do something, it’s not like they can look for jobs under philosopher on Indeed.com. They’ve been trained to think critically and write well, that’s the foundation.

There is training for critics. Yale School of Drama and a few other schools have graduate majors (MFAs) in Dramaturgy. But I'd guess that most graduates of those programs would be deemed too "intellectual" in their thinking to write interestingly about the commercial Broadway theater.

A lot of "serious" theatre critics don't understand musical theatre and have no business critiquing musicals. That's been true for decades. (The UK press doesn't seem any better in this regard.)

Brantley is one infamous example. He combines a tin ear with a sneering contempt for most popular tastes. Green is more informed but I agree that he is shaping up to be a disaster as lead at the Times.

The only qualification for a Broadway theater critic is that you be gay.

R346, GRIND had many good things in it and that was the problem. It was plot-overloaded that needed to be trimmed down to two stories. Instead, every charater had to have their own detail to the point where a possible romantic involement didn't happen until the middle of Act Two. Too Much, Too Late. Some good songs, though, and a fantastic set.

I was a critic for a couple of years for a minor magazine, and I think critics should have to take at least a year's sabbatical every 4-5 years. The reason? There are only so many ways to say "This show won't set the house on fire, but it's entertaining enough that you probably won't be bored." The vast majority of plays and shows fall into that category.

Only about 2-5% give you the visceral thrill that means you're going to remember the production always, and only 5-10% are bad enough to be fun to review. If they have living authors who aren't already successful you have to worry about punching down, so you can't have fun in those cases even if the work was egregious. You have to say so analytically. At least that's an interesting challenge; it's the "it's OK but nothing great" that gets to you night after night. Seeing them is bad enough but writing about them gets to be hell. I mean, how interesting can you be while analyzing why something was OK?

I can't see how someone who holds a key critical role for ten years or more can possibly not get jaded. Nor connected, and therefore open to bias. So I think you should be sent off to rediscover Broadway as an ordinary theatregoer every few years, and not allowed back till you're busting to say something new.

.......

I think critics should also acknowledge that they seeing show for free and from the prime seat—and that maybe some stuff they rave about would not be so great from a $150 balcony seat. Brantley was the worst offender, mentioning the glint in an actor's eye or the way someone's ankle turned slightly to the left.

[quote]maybe some stuff they rave about would not be so great from a $150 balcony seat.

Maybe not, but the blow jobs are better.

CRIX NIX STIX PIX

BOFFO at the B.O.

Didn’t Ben Vereen’s diva behavior during Grind damage his career for a bit? I remember he left the show abruptly and his standby closed the show.

[quote]I think critics should also acknowledge that they seeing show for free and from the prime seat—and that maybe some stuff they rave about would not be so great from a $150 balcony seat. Brantley was the worst offender, mentioning the glint in an actor's eye or the way someone's ankle turned slightly to the left.

Or....maybe they assume any reader with half a brain knows that critics see shows for free AND from prime seats without having to be told or reminded of this in a review. EVEN YOU know all of this, yet you're complaining that critics don't "acknowledge" it? What an incredibly strange comment.

[quote]Brantley is one infamous example. He combines a tin ear with a sneering contempt for most popular tastes.

Brantley is a DLer?

Ben Vereen didn't seem to be very much of a diva when he posed for this in a series of photos.

Ben was high when he posed for that. It was the 70s. They were all high all the time.

Why yes. Yes we were r376.

That clip from GRIND has pretty much everything you could want except a good song.

Is Vereen gay?

nope

I remember when Ben presented at the Tonys after surviving getting hit by a car while wandering down a highway. No standing ovation. He looked disappointed. He gave the Tony to Chita and announced her name by saying ‘THE WINNER IS THE FIRST PERSON I HEARD FROM WHEN I CAME OUT OF MY COMA’ (or something like that). He seems like an odd man.

COMPANY (Bobbie version) was incredible! I thought the slight edits to dialogue made it funnier and more natural compared to a few other versions of the musical. The Poor Baby sequence with the steward and Bobbie was a lot better thanks to the goofy himbo flight attendant. I find that part kind of dull, usually.

The changes from female to male characters were what I was worried about, but these actors pulled it off. I wish more reboots/revisions were this fun and imaginative. Patti and Katrina were great in their scenes together.

So Bobby Conte Thornton grew his hair long during lockdown, and decided to keep it for Company? It wasn't long in the pics from pre-pandemic performances. Did the guy in London have long hair?

R362, dramaturgy is not criticism. And it is not journalism. I was an editor before getting my MFA from a noted theater program. The dramaturgs there (and elsewhere) are not qualified for the writing and administrative demands of a newspaper arts desk.

I think the real problem is the liberal arts have been gutted so the writing/critical thinking skills that in the past most people would have before working at a periodical -- they just are no longer common.

Also, there is no longer the same pipeline where critics could hone their skills in smaller markets or at smaller publications before moving to the larger ones.

I'm getting the sense that this cast really enjoy each other. Looking forward to seeing it in December.

Does anyone know the story behind Patti's refusal to participate in the NPR tiny desk concert the other day? The entire cast turned out for it. I read that she said "They're my colleagues, not my friends" but that may be apocryphal.

Where did you read that, r385?

I thought there was a lot of fake camaraderie in that clip. Too much in fact.

R382 Did Sondheim end up changing hepatitis to coronavirus in Getting Married Today?

R387 Especially given that awful oral history series showed that this really wasn't a cast that bonded all that closely.

For what it's worth, I worked with Ben Vereen on a project, and he was very nice. At least with me. That dude has been through A LOT.

One of the regular theater people posted the quote on Twitter, R386. Sorry; I can't recall who it was.

R381. Speaking of which, per ATC, “Mo Rocha interviews Chita Rivera on CBS Sunday Morning.”

This is the single gayest sentence in the history of the universe.

Just curious, r390. She's also got a few decades on some of her colleagues.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1981, "The West Side Waltz" starring Katharine Hepburn opened at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre.

I just saw Tick Tick Boom on Netflix and can't find a thread about it. I thought the score of the original was catchier than most of Rent and was disappointed to find the movie had so much Miranda influence. Songs I'd really liked were substantially sidelined or just not there, replaced by others that sounded more like Hamilton. I guess they were from other Larson works I've never heard. The homage-to-Broadway aspect of the original was really turned up, at the expense of the human plot. I assume this was part of the attempt to immortalize Larson, but it's weird to immortalize someone by lessening his own influence in the piece.

There were little things that bugged me, too. Despite constant references to the small size of the apartment, it actually looked quite spacious for New York, and more 'distressed' than actually unliveable. And then, in the song about Michael's shiny Park Avenue apartment, why didn't we SEE a dishwasher and a walk-in closet, and why did we pretend an ordinary wooden table was butcher-block? I mean, either abstract it or do it properly. That song was about revelling in materialism. Hard to do onstage, but in a movie there should have been lots of material there to revel in.

The level of suck-up to Sondheim was intense, and I'm a huge fan. Larson honored him perfectly, with the Sunday Brunch tribute song, but what Miranda has added everywhere else makes the phone message at the end no longer the joyous deus ex machina (literally) that it was in the original.

On the plus side, it had all the frenetic energy Larson could have wanted and more. It was a great idea to cast the Sunday Brunch scene the way they did, and even moreso to include the hat. Judith Light was loads of fun and Bradley Whitford captured the Great Man beautifully. I liked Garfield's performance a lot, except that you could see from the moon why he wasn't going to marry Susan.

The trouble with Miranda is that he just can't help insinuating himself into every project. It's like he's immortalizing himself rather than Larson. I liked the movie, but would have liked it a lot more if LMM hadn't been popping up, figuratively if not literally, every two seconds--and I'm including the Sondheim sucking up in that complaint.

Btw, the unfamiliar songs were Larson trunk songs--stuff they found in the Library of Congress archive.

[quote]I thought there was a lot of fake camaraderie in that clip. Too much in fact.

In WHAT clip? People, it really helps matters if you make it clear what you're referring to when you post.

Ben is still going through a lot. He has to appear on B Positive.

Sierra Boggess and Julian Ovenden released an album today.

I'm watching Cher on Dick Cavett. She's so personable and thoughtful.

r398 It's on Spotify.

[quote]I just saw Tick Tick Boom on Netflix and can't find a thread about it. I thought the score of the original was catchier than most of Rent and was disappointed to find the movie had so much Miranda influence. Songs I'd really liked were substantially sidelined or just not there, replaced by others that sounded more like Hamilton. I guess they were from other Larson works I've never heard. The homage-to-Broadway aspect of the original was really turned up, at the expense of the human plot. I assume this was part of the attempt to immortalize Larson, but it's weird to immortalize someone by lessening his own influence in the piece.

I disagree with almost every word of that. The only new song that sounds remotely like HAMILTON is that rap number with Tariq Trotter, and I don't know the specific provenance of that, but it must have been written by Larson. And the other "new" songs were trunk songs or from SUPERBIA.

[quote]The trouble with Miranda is that he just can't help insinuating himself into every project. It's like he's immortalizing himself rather than Larson. I liked the movie, but would have liked it a lot more if LMM hadn't been popping up, figuratively if not literally, every two seconds--and I'm including the Sondheim sucking up in that complaint.

What a nasty, ill-informed thing to say. The "Sondheim sucking up" was very much a part of the stage version of tick, tick...BOOM! though obviously without him actually appearing other than in that voicemail message at the end. Of course, in making the show into a film with a huge cast, it was only natural to have Sondheim actually appear, and I thought the scene where he gave positive feedback about the earlier SUPERBIA workshop, thereby embarrassing the Richard Kind character who was belittling it, was one of the movie's highlights.

Thanks for the SPOILER ALERT, r401.

I was surprised by the rather luke warm review the NY Times gave to Tick Tick today, and buried several pages in.

Exc-u-s-e me, r393.

R402, sorry, but if you're talking about the voicemail message, that was already discussed upthread.

[quote]I was surprised by the rather luke warm review the NY Times gave to Tick Tick today, and buried several pages in.

But are you really? Their arts criticism in general has gone to the dogs, with some exceptions.

My friends and I drove from Santa Barbara to San Francisco for a day. We saw a matinee of Angie and Hearn in Sweeney and an evening performance of Hepburn and Loudon in WSW.

Liza M played Dorothy Loudon’s part in the film of WSW but I can’t remember who played Kate.

Shirley MacLaine.

What's the deal on the cancelled Harry Potter And The Cursive Penmanship Child performance tonight?

[quote] Do we think FOLLIES would make it past January?

Only if they cast January Jones as Phyllis and Elisabeth Moss as Sally.

R410. One of the leads is ill and understudy wasn’t ready. Not COVID related. Performances resume tomorrow.

I saw West Side Waltz on Broadway, and really the only thing I remember is Katharine Hepburn making a big deal about Bumblebee Tuna.

Lin Manuel can only do things that are versions of himself. He is the quintessence of superficiality.

[quote] it must have been written by Larson. And the other "new" songs were trunk songs or from SUPERBIA.

Yes, I can read the credits, so I knew Miranda didn't actually write the songs. I'm saying he found songs that were more to his taste than the actual Tick Tick score, and that I liked the original score better. Hamilton was by no means all rap. The increased emphasis on Come to Your Senses instead of Actions Speak Louder than Words was also more typical of Miranda, who loves a big female ballad, whereas Green Green Dress and Sugar, which bit the dust, are both a long way from the Miranda songbook but very typical of Larson.

About half-way through Tick Tick Boom and very much loving it. The Sunday Brunch scene had me in tears.

At 67 years old in the year 2021, I am more than proud to be Mary'd on the Datalounge.

Is the Sondheim answering machine messsage the actual one or did Whitford just get his voice down that exactly?

Doesn’t Joanne hit on Bobby? Does she hit on Bobbie?

Sondheim recorded it for the film, because he thought the message Miranda wrote didn't sound at all like him. But it's not the actual message Sondheim left in 1990 or whenever.

Miranda didn't right the screenplay. Steven Evan Hansen Levinson did.

You mean it was wrong initially?

But Miranda wrote the answering machine message, or so he's said.

And Sondheim rewrote it.

And Sondheim re-wrote it because he said he would not have said what Miranda wrote.

Miranda didn't write the screenplay. Steven Levenson did.

R425 you can’t read FIVE posts up before posting??

Understood, r425. However, Miranda did write the initial Sondheim recorded message, which Sondheim reviewed, disliked, and subsequently re-wrote and recorded another version of the message, which we now hear at the end of the film. Levenson presumably wrote everything else.

Everybody squared away now?

I’ve started Tick..Tick, but why does everybody look so terrible and unattractive, I don’t remember that about the 1990s? But that had to be a choice in casting and makeup, hair and wardrobe. I may be shallow, but I prefer to see beautiful people in my musicals.

Yes r418 she did but I heard it has been rewritten so that now Joanne offers her husband. Patti lezzing up Katrina. Nevah!

[quote] I may be shallow, but I prefer to see beautiful people in my musicals.

Avoid all mirrors while singing in the shower then r428.

[quote]Lin Manuel can only do things that are versions of himself. He is the quintessence of superficiality.

And you are the quintessence of bitchy stupidity.

[quote]Yes, I can read the credits, so I knew Miranda didn't actually write the songs. I'm saying he found songs that were more to his taste than the actual Tick Tick score, and that I liked the original score better. Hamilton was by no means all rap. The increased emphasis on Come to Your Senses instead of Actions Speak Louder than Words was also more typical of Miranda, who loves a big female ballad, whereas Green Green Dress and Sugar, which bit the dust, are both a long way from the Miranda songbook but very typical of Larson.

I wouldn't say there's an "increased emphasis on 'Come to Your Senses' instead of 'Actions Speak Louder than Words,'" so I don't know where you got that from. As for your other comments, the song stack of this piece has changed continually ever since Larson himself started performing it as a one-man show titled BOHO DAYS, later retitled tick, tick....BOOM!, and then, after Larson's death, it was expanded and revised by others into a three-member-cast show also titled tick, tick...BOOM!, and now has been adapted and revised again for the movie.

[quote]I may be shallow, but I prefer to see beautiful people in my musicals.

I think Alexandra Shipp and Vanessa Hudgens both look beautiful in the movie, and I've always thought of Robin de Jesus as very cute. As for Andrew Garfield, I'm sure they purposely played down his beauty with that crazy hair to make him look less movie-star beautiful and more like Jonathan Larson. And they definitely succeeded in that.

Lucille & Viv as Phyllis & Sally!

Miranda didn't right the screenplay.

HOW HAS NO ONE MARY’d YOU BY NOW!!!!!!!

R431, You think Andrew Garfield is movie-star beautiful?!?!? I think he looks like a gnome. A tall gnome.

r431 = insufferable.

[quote]I think I think I think + an insult

You might want to try that "think" stuff yourself.

R434-I'd fuck that gnome from here to eternity.

Hollywood has lowered its standards and is now foisting ugly and/or fat people onto the public as paragons of beauty, in order to be more politically correct.. In general, this is a Dark Age for Hollywood; an age of mediocrity. (Broadway, is not far behind, either.)

R438-he said as he finished his second box of Fruit Loops while playing with himself.

R435 is severely triggered whenever I quote and respond to several posts in one of my posts. Since I don't see anything wrong with doing so, I'll continue, but I do have to wonder what weird form of emotional illness or developmental disability is triggered by something so benign.

Oh, and the person who wrote "Lin Manuel can only do things that are versions of himself. He is the quintessence of superficiality" deserves to be insulted. If we could see a photo of that person, I expect we'd find he's the same color as Elphaba or the green, green dress in tick, tick....BOOM!

[R434]-I'd fuck that gnome from here to eternity.

Ha! Same here. I mean, the guy played SPIDER-MAN, a role that does not tend to be cast with unattractive guys.

R437 = Burt Lancaster

[quote] the same color as Elphaba or the green, green dress in tick, tick....BOOM

I should have worn green.

TTB has to work so hard early in every version of the show to show that Jon is straight.

R431 You say Robin de Jesus is cute, and Andrew Garfield is a beauty, and then question the judgement of others?

I stand by my point. Miranda really doesn’t write for character; he only writes his own character traits and predilections and then imposes those on the character.

Correct, R445. One can only imagine your crippling insecurities about your own looks that you would trash the looks of Andrew Garfield and Robin de Jesus. And I'm sure those crippling insecurities are 100 percent justified :-)

R446, your "point" is beyond ludicrous. At any rate, LMM did NOT write tick, tick...BOOM!, so why do you insist on repeating your "point" at this juncture?

The screenplay is written and rewritten endlessly with input from the director, nimrod.

And the screenplay is based primary and quite closely on the original semi-autobiographical show by Jonathan Larson and on the three-actor adaptation by David Auburn, you pathetic moron. So it would have been quite an amazing achievement for Lin-Manuel Miranda to "write his own character traits and predilections and then impose those on the character" of Jonathan Larson, you congenital idiot.

Lin, I don’t know why you’re getting so defensive. You obviously gravitate toward projects and characters that most mirror yourself or star yourself.

R450, you obviously are so envious of someone with real talent that your cognitive abilities have been severely impaired.

I’m a banker. Show business seems to be your interest.

Well, there you have it....

I don't have it, I thought *you* had it.

Andrew as Jonathan

Well we certainly have a poster living up to the title of thread. The same poster who is looking forward to going to see Mrs Doubtfire.

At least he wore green, r455.

This can be yours off eBay for $390.00...

^oopsie

Who is that, r458? Arlene Francis?

You're right, r460, it does resemble her. It's Miss Shearer.

Maybe it's Rob McClure in drag? Someone's his big admirer here.

No, r462...it's Norma Shearer.

Notice how many "Critics' Picks" are being given out by the NY Times? Grading on a curve indeed.

Norma Shearer was supposed to follow Mimi Hines in Funny Girl on Broadway but they couldn't hear her beyond the third row in the orchestra.

[quote] I mean, the guy played SPIDER-MAN, a role that does not tend to be cast with unattractive guys.

Tobey Maguire, Tom Holland, and Garfield are the epitome of average, even dweeby.

"Movie star beautiful" used to mean something - apparently not any more.

Yeah, it meant something back when they had Hurrell and his ilk to take photographs that would obscure or lessen their bad features and make them look gorgeous. Movie stars appearances were carefully controlled by their studios. With no social media - before 1948 or so, without even any television - one's only frame of reference for what a star looked like was via the studios.

Tonight's That Girl:

S2 E21 Other Woman

A gossip columnist links Ethel Merman with Ann's father. Ann: Marlo Thomas. Ethel Merman: Herself. Don: Ted Bessell. Father: Lew Parker. Mother: Rosemary De Camp.

Big joke back in the 1960s:

If Rosemary de Camp married William Kunstler she'd be Rosemary de Camp Kunstler.

Andrew Garfield is definitely one of those "stars" where you scratch your head and think, "HOW did that happen?"

At best, he should be a minor star on British TV and stage...someone who plays an Assistant on Dr. Who for 3 years and does lots of guest appearances on Midsummer Murders and Call the Midwife.

Garfield was DREADFUL as Prior in that Angels revival. Amateur night! And to be given a Tony for it, simply outrageous. But then, I didn't like anything about that revival.

R471 Agree. He was an embarrassment in every way.

Garfield was very excellent in the film "The Social Network" and should have been Oscar nominated though.

R473 Eh...not so much.

I like that film and I don't really remember him making THAT big of an impression on me.

Kind of like all his appearances in film/on tv.

And you, R456, are someone who lives up -- or, rather, down -- to the worst stereotype of a typically bitchy, ignorant, condescending, pathetic DL poster.

[quote]Andrew Garfield is definitely one of those "stars" where you scratch your head and think, "HOW did that happen?"

No, only YOU scratch your head and think "HOW did this happen?" That is, when you're not scratching your ass, which apparently is where all your "taste" is located.

[quote] Yeah, it meant something back when they had Hurrell and his ilk to take photographs that would obscure or lessen their bad features and make them look gorgeous. Movie stars appearances were carefully controlled by their studios. With no social media - before 1948 or so, without even any television - one's only frame of reference for what a star looked like was via the studios.

Right, because photoshop never existed after that.

[quote] And you, [R456], are someone who lives up -- or, rather, down -- to the worst stereotype of a typically bitchy, ignorant, condescending, pathetic DL poster.

You're such a fucking idiot that you've yet to realize at least four different people have called you out on your bullshit. It couldn't possibly occur to you that the general opinion is that you know nothing.

Is Polly Pen auditioning for The Bonnie Franklin Story in R367 ?

The fact that my OPINIONS differ from those of assholes like you, R477, does not mean I "know nothing." On the contrary.

[quote]R438 Hollywood has lowered its standards and is now foisting ugly and/or fat people onto the public as paragons of beauty

I think that started with Babs, actually.

My God, you old folks are insufferable.

[quote] I think that started with Babs, actually.

I think it started with Shelley Winters.

[quote]r481 My God, you old folks are insufferable.

You think you’re very clever, don’t you… trying to sweep the poor little widow under the carpet? [italic] Well, think again!

I watched Tick, Tick on Netflix today and it’s fantastic!

If you haven’t seen it, ignore the DL whining about it and watch

I don’t want to.

Now that Andrew's mother has joined the thread and chastened me at R475 I bow my head in shame for disparaging his fine (yet achingly dull) talents.

Though I don't know how Mrs. Garfield knows I have a very tasty ass....'tis a mystery!

Hollywood has always had unconventional looking stars...Marie Dressler was a huge star in the 30s. Both Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn were considered "odd" looking. Spencer Tracy was definitely on the plain side. Jimmy Stewart wasn't exactly a looker.

(R484) totally agree. Watched Tick Tick Boom Friday night having only heard it briefly years ago. Loved it. Loved Andrew Garfield. Loved LMMs direction. So much to applaud and really struck a deep chord. Sunday scene was one of many highlights. Looking forward to watching again.

Another who loved Tick Tick Boom and plan to watch it again. First worthy movie musical in a long, long time.

It's kind of what you wish the movie of Rent was. If nothing else, I'm happy the movie and its leading man have the potential to stomp all over the grave of the odious Dear Evan Hansen and its central bewigged gnome of a star.

I don't think anyone is expecting Dear Evan Hanson to get any awards/

Wasn't Ben Platt being touted as a definite Best Actor nominee?

[quote] Wasn't Ben Platt being touted as a definite Best Actor nominee?

By Ben Platt, yes.

How much is that best actor nomination gonna cost me? I'll pay.

So, r486, Garfield's mother died quite recently

R493 I seem to recall some publications and critics making that prediction.

I can't imagine that Ben Platt's collection of grimaces and tics would ever be considered worthy of an Oscar nomination.

Rudin picked him out early, for Biff the Philip Seymour Hoffman [italic]Death of a Slesman[/italic] and [italic]Social Network[/italic]

[quote] [R435] is severely triggered whenever I quote and respond to several posts in one of my posts. Since I don't see anything wrong with doing so, I'll continue, but I do have to wonder what weird form of emotional illness or developmental disability is triggered by something so benign.

Oh, no, r440 the multi-part posts are just one obnoxious manifestation of your overall condescension, bad taste, and witlessness, and your overall tendency to insufferably call out each prior post for your final pronouncement, capped by a crude insult. Piling them up together just indicates your own anal-retentiveness and compulsive need to prattle on and that you think you have last word on all these topics. You're unpleasant and worst of all, just no damn fun to read. Hence, [italic]insufferable[/italic].

[bold]Insufferable: r440's Greatest Hits[/bold]

[quote] you congenital idiot

[quote] your cognitive abilities have been severely impaired

[quote] your ass, which apparently is where all your "taste" is located

[quote] And you are the quintessence of bitchy stupidity

[quote] What a nasty, ill-informed thing to say

[quote] And I expect you have no agent because you have zero talent in any field

I completely forgot about the DearEvan Hansen movie!

"(Broadway, is not far behind, either.)"

In fact, it's leading the pack...

"someone with real talent"

Possibly the least discerning statement I've ever read on DL, and that's saying something...

[quote] I completely forgot about the DearEvan Hansen movie!

So did the moviegoing public.

And…BAJOUR!

My apologies for the premature BAJOUR. I had an eldergay moment and thought that threads ended at 500 posts.

R500 Almost like they have to rely on ad hominems because they're incapable of actually arguing a point.

Not to mind r504. Who doesn't like a well-meant, genial BAJOUR! on occasion?

How has this thread reached beyond 500 and not been locked?

My nails are wet r507. I'll get to it in a few.

Sure, R486. As if Andrew Garfield's mother is the only person in the world who thinks he's talented. You sound like a raging six-year-old, talking about people's mothers. What an embarrassment.

Well, look, someone here -- R499/500 -- is obsessed with my posts. Interesting.

Anyway, I think I've argued all of my points very well, but of course, you didn't quote any of that. You only quoted the attacks, which only came when others went on the attack in the stupidest and most childish way possible -- for example, R486.

It's a public message board r510. What the fuck else should we be obsessed with?

The attractive background?

Thanks, R500 I blocked R440 . The air seems clearer already!

How is Andrew Garfield's singing? No one seems to comment on that, so can I assume it's at least serviceable, but no John Raitt? I mean people comment on Lin-Manuel for being pretty crummy, so if Lin-Manuel is a 0 or a 1 and Raitt is a 10, where is Garfield?

Marc Platt is still probably going to buy a 2-page ad in Variety for Ben's performance to try to get him a nomination, at least for appearance's sake.

You nailed it r513. Serviceable. Sounds to my UNtrained ear that a couple of high notes may have someone else "assisting." But he seems to believe in what he's singing - and his reach doesn't exceed his. grasp. It doesn't have the the passion or pipes that Papi Esparza brought but that was a theater. Its also interesting to see some choices to go quiet when Papi went big, that could be to accommodate Garfield's limitations or smartly to make the moment intimate instead of booming for film instead of stage.

Ben will get a Golden Globe nom but those are easy to buy.

Why would we think LMM would be a good judge of someone’s singing voice, have you not heard him?

I don’t get the hate for Lin. He seems like a perfectly nice, decent human who loves the theatre. No, I’m not related or a Hamilton groupie. But I am someone who’s happy to see someone who’s not a piece of shit succeed in this industry.

I thought Garfield's voice was better than serviceable, and I'm pretty picky (and still horrified by Miranda's butchering of Giants in the Sky in the Sondheim 90th celebration).

I was ready to give LMM benefit of the doubt when I saw him in "Merrily We Roll Along" years ago at City Center, not having seen him before, and he was just really not good. Then I started seeing clips of him, and he's acting like his singing is really good, and it's so not. He's a phony in at least that way.

Garfield actually sound great. Really good pop voice. It's anyone's guess if he could do that eight shows a week, but listen to the soundtrack online; he's surprisingly good.

Don't know if folks are aware there's an audio of Janet Blair in "Follies" from the audio system. Wonderful singer, sadly not recalled very often nowadays, other than maybe the film of "My Sister Eileen".

Excellent description, R514.

[quote]Garfield actually sound great. Really good pop voice.

I agree. I thought he sounded fantastic from beginning to end. Or as we used to say back in the day, the boy can sing.

[quote]I don’t get the hate for Lin. He seems like a perfectly nice, decent human who loves the theatre. No, I’m not related or a Hamilton groupie. But I am someone who’s happy to see someone who’s not a piece of shit succeed in this industry.

In this case, I honestly think it's all about jealousy, Some people just don't like to see others succeed -- even if the other person obviously has great talent, and even if the jealous person doesn't work in the same field.

Also, I think it's a sad fact of human nature that, for whatever reasons, there almost always seems to be some backlash against people who attain great fame and praise for their work, especially at a relatively young age. And again, this sometimes happens even when those people are clearly very talented. As for me, I think it's far more appropriate to hate on people like the Kardashians and other "reality TV" stars.

There's probably some bigotry involved too, R524.

It's his apparently constant need for attention and affirmation. Me Me Me, Look at Meeeeeeee.

Maybe if he didn't celebrate himself so incessantly....

I thought of a funny story just now. Carol Grace, who was the wife of Walter Matthau, was understudying Anne Baxter in a troubled play called “The Square Root of Wonderful.” Carol was taking it really seriously because she had two children to support and was fully prepped to go on if need be.

Baxter couldn’t make the role work and it was limping along with tons or rewrites and different approaches, but she just wasn’t good in the role. None of the interpretations worked. All the while Carol just kept watching.

One day Baxter approached Carol and said, “I just want you to know, you’re never going to play this part.” And Carol said, “I’m afraid you’re not going to, either.”

[quote]I completely forgot about the DearEvan Hansen movie!

There was a "Dear Even Hansen" movie?

R526 Or to push himself as a singer and actor when he's not that talented in those areas. He's better (though extremely overly praised) for his writing, but that's really his forte.

R498, Andrew Garfield and Finn Wittrock should have changed roles in DEATH OF A SALESMAN.

I thought Andrew Garfield sang perfectly well playing a composer singing his own material. I don't think he would be acceptable in a golden age Broadway musical.

I enjoyed the performances in the film of tick, tick...BOOM! but not the music. While it was fun to see all those theatre people in cameos, that device was so distracting that the scenes were ruined.

R526, that's your gut reaction, and you're entitled to it, but in my opinion, it's not based on anything concrete.

I'm curious, what exactly would you like LMM to do, or not do, in order for you not to feel that he "celebrates himself so incessantly?" Should he be less productive? I hardly think giving himself cameos in the movies of IN THE HEIGHTS and tick, tick....BOOM! are examples of him doing that. Also, he didn't play the lead in the movie of IN THE HEIGHTS because he realized he was too old for it, and he didn't direct that movie because, presumably, he didn't think he had the experience or ability to direct a huge musical as his first movie.

I just don't get your feelings about him, but whatever. Of course, he doesn't care what your or I individually think of him, only how he is generally perceived by critics and the public -- and I think and hope that you're in the severe minority as far as that goes.

[quote]I enjoyed the performances in the film of tick, tick...BOOM! but not the music. While it was fun to see all those theatre people in cameos, that device was so distracting that the scenes were ruined.

I guess I understand how you would feel that way. But seeing how the "Sunday" number (which had most of the cameos) was presented as a total fantasy sequence, and seeing as how Jonathan is presented as an ultimate musical theater enthusiast, that didn't bother me in the least, and I agree with everyone who sees that sequence as one of the film's greatest highlights.

Garfield broke my heart in the extremely underrated film Never Let Me Go. Carey Mulligan was also wonderful in it and I give Keira Knightley major props for playing a relatively unsympathetic supporting character.

I can’t look at Garfield without thinking of Tony Perkins.

She flamed out, r521...

[quote]I'm curious, what exactly would you like LMM to do, or not do, in order for you not to feel that he "celebrates himself so incessantly?"

Maybe not do stuff like cast himself in the lead role in his own show.

It's endlessly funny how upset you get that people have a different opinion to you.

[quote]Maybe not do stuff like cast himself in the lead role in his own show.

That is pretty outrageous.

All the haters are soooo jealous of him. He can easily be ignored if he makes you sick.

[quote]How is Andrew Garfield's singing? No one seems to comment on that, so can I assume it's at least serviceable, but no John Raitt?

If only there were somewhere someone one could go to actually hear Garfield sing....

And why would he sing at a John Raitt caliber? He's playing a songwriter/composer -- and if you've ever heard real composers sing then you know you're lucky if they are even "serviceable". And Garfield is much more than that.

And Sally Bowles was meant to be a bad singer...

[quote]Lucille & Viv as Phyllis & Sally!

Viv would have insisted on interpolating "Shortnin' Bread."

R496, that’s possible, but it would have been before the movie screened to critical derision and opened and quickly sank.

Well, r542, the upside is that he's young and his Lucy/MAME is now behind him.

I suspect Ben’s movie career is going to be a series of Lucy/MAMEs.

Everything Ben Platt touches turns to Mame.

Ben and Noah in "I Do, I Do"!!! BEST REVIVAL.

Ben's okay. He and Beanie are in her backyard eating pizza and singing "Maggie Flynn," knowing how important they are individually and collectively to the future of the Musical Theatre.

[quote] Viv would have insisted on interpolating "Shortnin' Bread."

Which would certainly have helped.

Did anyone catch the CBS Sunday Morning feature on the film of THE HUMANS? The little bits of the film looked somewhat interesting but I can't imagine the heightened reality of the stage play can work in a film that, by nature, has to be more literal. Jayne Houdyshell is the only remnant from the Broadway cast but the film does promise the appearances of DL Faves Beanie Feldstein and Amy Schumer as the sisters. I haven't seen any other publicity so wonder if they're just trying to sneak in a bad film with little attention?

The Humans is going straight to cable so that’s not a good sign. I’ll watch it for Richard Jenkins.

r550 "straight to cable" doesn't mean what it did pre pandemic

Back to TTB, would it be Miranda's or Levenson's fault that some of Larson's best songwriting from the off-Bway production -See Her Smile and Real Life (except for that one line deJesus sings on repeat) - was cut?

Truly can't decide if giving most of the best songs to the show-in-a-show singers helped or hurt. Another example for sure of people working on films feeling that most musical numbers need a framing device instead of simply, you know, singing.

R539 Johnny Mercer had a really good voice. James Taylor sings quite nicely. So did Kander and Ebb. And Sheldon Harnick. There are others

Hoagy

Yes, I’ll admit Garfield’s voice is nowhere near the glory that Esparza’s is, but Esparza is old and fat now.

Dear TTB Haters-

SHUT THE FUCK UP. WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don’t think I liked turning Come to Your Senses into the duet. Distracted from the song. Overall Larson as songwriter suffers. Overall I think Auburn’s script was better although maybe wouldn’t have worked for film. Jury’s out on Levensen after DEH and this

It's not the LMM wrote himself a lead role. He wrote himself a lead role where all the women are in love with him, and all the men are jealous of him. It's a bit creepy. (And he's not a good actor or singer to boot.) I find him unctious to the extreme, and I am not one of the people who have written about it on here before.

R536, I don't think there's anything in my politely phrased question -- "I'm curious, what exactly would you like LMM to do, or not do, in order for you not to feel that he 'celebrates himself so incessantly?'" -- to indicate that I'm "so upset" when people disagree with me. Rather, I think you are being needlessly confrontational and inappropriately insulting.

Couldn't agree more r558. And to show just how much I agree, I am gonna wait until you write and star in your own hit Broadway musical and direct the first movie musical worth watching in years.

[quote]Rather, I think you are being needlessly confrontational and inappropriately insulting.

I'll just refer back to R500's compilation of some of your comments throughout this thread.

[quote]It's not the LMM wrote himself a lead role. He wrote himself a lead role where all the women are in love with him, and all the men are jealous of him.

I assume you're referring to HAMILTON? If so, I would point out that the show is based on the life of a historical figure, and those things you mention were undoubtedly true of the real Alexander Hamilton, even though of course the show is not a documentary. Also, the musical portrays Hamilton as a great but extremely flawed man, so that works against your weird interpretation of why LMM wrote the role for himself.

r559 just don't be dick and then everyone won't hate you and block you and you can have lunch with us again

I think the two bitches arguing back and forth here are actually just one bitch, and I think he's kind of loony. He's been known to do this kind of thing before.

R527, I don't get that story. It would land if in fact The Square Root Of Wonderful closed during tryouts.

But it opened and ran about five weeks, so Anne Baxter did get to play it.

Was Carol Grace's point that (she thought) the play SHOULD close during tryouts?

Or what?

It would make a better tale if Angela Lansbury's understudy said it to her when Prettybelle was in Boston.

I still can’t believe I haven’t be locked out of this thread?!?

I think the Carol Grace story is that Grace was telling Baxter that she was lousy in the part - that she wasn't "playing the part."

[quote]R565 it opened and ran about five weeks, so Anne Baxter did get to play it. Was Carol Grace's point that (she thought) the play SHOULD close during tryouts?

The point was Baxter was never going to “play” the part because she was just wrong for it. No matter what approach was tried, and there were many, she couldn’t make it work and come to life. She did not to the role justice.

Who *was* Angie's standby in Prettybelle?

For those that saw The Humans segment on CBS Sunday Morning, Beanie said she was thankful for friends and family and that it was very hard because she hadn’t seen her “partner” for more then a year during lockdown. Was she referring to Ben, I know he was in Connecticut, while she was in LA, and I can see them, much to the agitation of boy or girlfriends, calling each other “partners.” Or is she romantically involved with someone and using “partner” in being a LGBTQ+ ally, or because it’s a girlfriend or someone non-binary? Who is she referring to?

Beanie's "partner" comment made me question that too.

Was it discussed on here that Antonio Cipriano left Jagged in protest over the treatment of Trans people right after the Tony Awards? And Celia also managed to bow out, but related to her becoming involved in some Star Wars property? I’m really proud of Antonio for being such an ally!

R570 She's in a relationship with a producer named Bonnie Chance Roberts. Yes, Bonnie and Beanie.

Who wants to see Bonnie and Beanie going at it? Does Bonnie have the music that makes Beanie dance?

R572 ...you lost?

WHET our DL Raul Esparza threads? What was the acronym? RABUCPTSCROC or something like that? Oh it used to make me laugh.

So Beanie’s a lesbian, but didn’t play the lesbian part in Booksmart?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Based on what is this Beanie person an actual thing? I want her publicist

Thank you, R567 and R568. Now I get it.

Cute. Carol had her wits about her.

Read her book, r580.

Carol Matthau’s autobiography is great. Very well written. For instance the final chapter, about aging, is titled “My Ice Cream is Melting.” (!!) She published a novel in the 1950s (?) as well.

Her two best friends were Oona O’Neill and Gloria Vanderbilt. There’s a separate book about them titled TRIO, written by her son.

Carol had, for want of a better word...a look.

I have it on good authority that Lin’s anal hygiene is… lacking.

Good lord, Walter and Carol look like Millhouse's parents. You can't tell if they're husband and wife or brother and sister.

She was quite beautiful when young. She landed two famous husbands and had more men than any of us seriously after her.

r586 Meh

It seems like in the 1950s, if you could buy a bottle of peroxide, you were considered beautiful.

People pretended Shelley Winters was beautiful but she had buck teeth. People pretended Elaine Stritch was beautiful but she had bad skin.

The young Carol looks kind of like young Sarah Paulson.

It looks a bit like Besmie has lost a little weight. I wonder if she has, or if it’s just the dress which looks great on her and clearly hides a multitude of sins.

Almost time for a new thread

Saw The Visitor yesterday. Not as bad as I feared, but David Hyde Pierce’s big closing number is godawful and almost ruins the show. An Ahmad Maksoud shower scene would have a nice addition. And what’s up with no bio in the Playbill for lyricist/co-book writer Brian Yorkey? Was that by his choice after all the birthing problems this show had?

Wasn't Carol along with Billy Wilder's wife and somebody else one of the top social hostess's of Hollywood?

[quote]Wasn't Carol along with Billy Wilder's wife and somebody else one of the top social hostess's of Hollywood?

Oh, dear.

Carol Matthau nee Grace was friends with Truman Capote and his inspiration for the character of Holly Golightly in the original novella, Breakfast at Tiffany’s.

Let’s wrap this one up with a return trip to the shower with Ahmad…

The new thread

Ahmad cleans up nicely.

And lest we forget….BAJOUR!!!

I haven’t been able to post in a 600 in months!!

Flahooley!!!!!!!!