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As a single gay man, do you find it difficult to be included in holiday events?

I’m a single gay man with very few friends in my area due to everyone moving away.

However, the friends I do have left here always do holiday events as a family or events as a couple or with other couples. If I suggest we do something together like a short day vacation or go see Christmas lights and sip hot cocoa, I get shot down with “that’s more of a couples thing” or “that’s more of a family event.”

I understand that people want to do things as a couple and want to spend time with their family, but I also understand I am single, have very few friends at it is, and the family I do have left are in a nursing home.

So if I want to take a holiday vacation or do something holiday related, I end up having to do it totally alone. And that gets old.

Hell, it would be nice if someone invited me to their Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner.

by Anonymousreply 290November 29, 2021 5:37 PM

It sounds like you need some gay friends, and not just married straights with families.

by Anonymousreply 1November 13, 2021 11:17 PM

Well, I (as a single lesbian) just got invited to a Thanksgiving dinner by a straight couple who I think want to convert me to their brand of Christianity. Wanna go to that one for me, OP?

by Anonymousreply 2November 13, 2021 11:18 PM

Personally, I DON'T want to be the sad extra at somebody else's Thanksgiving or Christmas. I think I hate that most of all. But yes, r1 is right. When it's all straight marrieds, that will inevitably suck OP.

by Anonymousreply 3November 13, 2021 11:18 PM

You sound lonely OP and I know how that feels. I never thought being alone would bother me but since my parents died I feel very alone. Sadly, when you're alone people tag you as a loner and don't want to be around you.

by Anonymousreply 4November 13, 2021 11:21 PM

Actually, some of the “that event is reserved for only couples” attitude comes from a lot of my gay acquaintances.

by Anonymousreply 5November 13, 2021 11:21 PM

I think I first heard this right here on the DL r2, but tell them (especially the wife) that they get a half hour to try to convert you, if you get a half hour to try to convert her.

by Anonymousreply 6November 13, 2021 11:26 PM

OP just curious if your friends are in their 30s. When I was in my 30s most of my straight friends and family were married with young children. Or still “went home” to spend holidays with parents. In their 40s several couples broke up and in their 50s are empty nesters who are feeling lonely. For the past 25 years, my core group of friends are all gay, a mix of singles and couples but none have kids.

by Anonymousreply 7November 13, 2021 11:28 PM

R7, I’m in my 30s and I would say most of my friends are in their 30s. It’s absolutely horrible to be this alone at this age. I always expected to be alone in my 60s but not now.

A lot of my gay friends are even married with kids now. Ugh.

by Anonymousreply 8November 13, 2021 11:32 PM

Yes, your 30s can suck for this reason and it’s harder to make friends, especially during a pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 9November 13, 2021 11:35 PM

Stop rolling around in self pity and forget stigmas. Just take it day to day and enjoy what you can out of life. You are not stuck in a nursing home bed or 6 feet underground. You are alive and vital. Enjoy the holidays in spite of your perceptions.

by Anonymousreply 10November 13, 2021 11:39 PM

[Quote]A lot of my gay friends are even married with kids now. Ugh.

That shocks me r8. Having a kid as a gay couple is very expensive and difficult, none of the gay couples I know have done it.

by Anonymousreply 11November 13, 2021 11:39 PM

I dunno, that whole just cheer up shit, does that actually work for anyone ever r10. I think everyone needs a pity party sometimes, for a little while at least.

by Anonymousreply 12November 13, 2021 11:41 PM

OP, you’re welcome to come to my house for Thanksgiving. I could use some gay friends.

Though I will warn you, I’m not a turkey person so I’ll be making a pigeon. That may not be to your liking.

Speaking of which, let me know either way because I’m going to Central Park tomorrow so I need to know how big a bird to shoot.

by Anonymousreply 13November 13, 2021 11:42 PM

R13, thank you. That made me laugh.

by Anonymousreply 14November 13, 2021 11:43 PM

That truly was my goal, to bring a grin to your face.

Thanks for acknowledging.

by Anonymousreply 15November 13, 2021 11:44 PM

R12 if you want to live in the dumps you will be there alone.

by Anonymousreply 16November 13, 2021 11:44 PM

[quote] if you want to live in the dumps you will be there alone.

Not true.

by Anonymousreply 17November 13, 2021 11:45 PM

whatever bitch, don't be stupid about life r16

by Anonymousreply 18November 13, 2021 11:45 PM

Which one is the friend that's turning you down OP? The wives or the husbands? Married women seem to just want gay men around when it's convenient for them from what I've seen.

by Anonymousreply 19November 13, 2021 11:45 PM

OP, I’m sorry that people are saying that to you; I know those are coupley things but I do think there are lots of people out there who don’t have that attitude. 30s are tough as a single (I’m in the same boat) because as you said, a lot of people are still going home to their parents’ so it’s less natural for them to invite you along. But it still really surprises me that no one reaches out to say you’re welcome to come over for the meal. I had a Thanksgiving a couple years ago where I wasn’t able to go home and so I invited friends to come over, and it was really fun. The catch was it wasn’t my closest and favorite friends as guests, more like the odds and ends of people who weren’t going home (couples, singles) including some people I didn’t even like much. But it was about Thanksgiving spirit. Maybe ask more broadly if anyone you know wants to go in together on a turkey? It might seem like really putting yourself out there but sometimes you don’t realize who else is lonely.

by Anonymousreply 20November 13, 2021 11:46 PM

R10, I do the best I can. I do enjoy spending time by myself but it does get old. I can only enjoy so many meals by myself, so many movies by myself, so many vacations by myself, before it gets too depressing to continue. Humans are social creatures and we definitely need socialization.

by Anonymousreply 21November 13, 2021 11:47 PM

[quote] You are alive and vital.

Well, he’s alive anyway. If he was vital he’d be invited places.

I’m only fooling, OP. I deal with difficult situations with humor. It can make for awkward situations. I mean, Aunt Ida’s funeral was…well, I’ll just leave it at that.

by Anonymousreply 22November 13, 2021 11:47 PM

You just want to wallow in your shit. Debbie downer. Boo fucking hoo.

by Anonymousreply 23November 13, 2021 11:47 PM

whatever, Polly Perky. Nobody loves you for your constant happy face. Just piss off.

But honestly, that does sound kind of fun r20, as long as it isn't the usual shit, namely one couple, their tiresome kids and relatives, and just you as the pity guest. But a group of people who are all kind of in the same situation, that actually could be fun.

by Anonymousreply 24November 13, 2021 11:51 PM

R24 I thought it was just going to be three of us, but I told other friends I was staying in town and having people over, so the two weeks before people were asking me “hey, Bob said he’s staying in town, can you invite him to your thanksgiving” or “hey, my plans changed at the last minute, can I come to your dinner?” And we ended up with 10. Spread the word that you’re either looking for a meal or cooking a meal and see if you get any nibbles on the line.

by Anonymousreply 25November 14, 2021 12:05 AM

I'm thirties and single and I feel sad that this is so common. This shouldn't be, there must be an answer; I'll give it some thought.

by Anonymousreply 26November 14, 2021 12:08 AM

I always stock up on poppers. Makes the turkey especially moist.

by Anonymousreply 27November 14, 2021 12:09 AM

OP, any single person would feel this way. It's not unique to gays. It' not unique to men.

by Anonymousreply 28November 14, 2021 12:13 AM

It seems like 30s and single (or any age and single) is going to be increasingly more common in these next generations, so people are bound to think of ways to adapt. Part of the issue is a lot of people aren’t happy to embrace that status and plan for a happy life, because they keep wanting it to change. I’ve been single so often that if I ever do couple up for good, my single friends will remain important to me and part of my plans, casual and formal. (The couples who only ever double-date instead of asking single friends along too annoy me.)

by Anonymousreply 29November 14, 2021 12:15 AM

So what does that lead to r28? As the improv types say, yes, and ...?

by Anonymousreply 30November 14, 2021 12:15 AM

R28, yes, but I do feel like gay men have it worse off than most. It’s easier to find friends if you’re straight. However, where I live it definitely seems that gay men are only allowed to be friends with other gay men. I’ve lost so many female friends who were gay friendly and then married homophobic Trump supporters.

And if they have kids (even the gay couples), you can forget about hearing from them for the next 18 years or so as they’ll always be too busy.

So who does that leave exactly? The lesbians don’t really want to be friends with the gays as there isn’t that much in common. The straight men don’t really want to be my friend besides having a gay friend as the “token gay”.

by Anonymousreply 31November 14, 2021 12:24 AM

I don’t feel sad at all. Guess I’ve got a better life than you. I’ll

by Anonymousreply 32November 14, 2021 12:24 AM

Some gay couples are just fucking insufferable to socialize with. Do they have any idea how difficult they make it for single friends? And how judgmental and/or superior/smug they appear to be at times, particularly around the holidays?

I still have a few couples that I've been close to for years, but it mean overlooking a LOT of this.

by Anonymousreply 33November 14, 2021 12:25 AM

R28, I agree. This is a common problem for singles of both genders and all sexual orientations. For the holidays specifically, it's not a solvable problem because Thanksgiving and Christmas really are family occasions. You could try ignoring Christmas completely at a personal level. You can't escape the decorations and music, but just treat December 25 as a day off. Go to the movies. Have Chinese for dinner. Thanksgiving is harder because everybody celebrates, not just Christians (cultural or religious), but on the other hand it's only one day, not an entire month. Have something nice but simple on hand for dinner, like a steak, and entertain yourself as you would on any other day at home.

For the longer term problem, have you considered volunteering? I know it's a cliche, and I don't mean at the holidays. I mean long-term in something that interests you. It doesn't have to be social work-y. I know someone who has volunteered for years for our city's symphony orchestra and has made friends among the other volunteers. That's one of the few ways to meet and get involved with people in your 30s and up, and as a bonus most of the other volunteers will also be single or at least childless.

by Anonymousreply 34November 14, 2021 12:25 AM

somebody please help r32 to the end of her sentence, but please, not her car.

by Anonymousreply 35November 14, 2021 12:26 AM

Relationships come and go. You'd better learn how to become a complete, separate human being who can navigate the world alone.

by Anonymousreply 36November 14, 2021 12:28 AM

You're right it's awful being alone around holidays. Even worse, much worse, the following week when people who certainly should know better ask how you spent the holidays.

But I can also tell you that being invited as the extra wheel can have an air of pity about it and isn't always the great time you expect. Especially at the end when everyone's leaving together and you feel like sneaking out alone.

by Anonymousreply 37November 14, 2021 12:29 AM

R31, it's not easier to make new friends if you're straight and over 30. Ask any single straight woman. That's because heterosexuals couple up and have kids at a much higher rate than gay men. And, as many comments here have pointed out, marriage often means the end of outside friendships, and children nearly always do unless the outside friend also has kids.

by Anonymousreply 38November 14, 2021 12:29 AM

Fart fart 💨

by Anonymousreply 39November 14, 2021 12:29 AM

What gets me is how unimaginative people are about settling into these nuclear families even after a decade of Friendsgivings and all the chosen-friend activities they participated in while single. It seems much more in the spirit of Thanksgiving that if you know you’re hosting a dinner, to check in with friends you think might not have plans.

by Anonymousreply 40November 14, 2021 12:36 AM


by Anonymousreply 41November 14, 2021 12:36 AM

R4 "Sadly, when you're alone people tag you as a loner and don't want to be around you."


by Anonymousreply 42November 14, 2021 12:40 AM

R40, but then you become the pity guest many here have already talked about. If you are the only non-family guest, you will be like the only non-employee at a company event. You won't get half the references and jokes. People will go painfully and obviously out of their way to "include" you by explaining things everyone else understands and by saying "oh, let's talk about something else; I'm sure Singleton isn't interested in our old family stories", accompanied by a well-meaning but pitying smile.

And this is if you're the guest of a happy family. If it's an unhappy family - or just one of those scream-at-each-other-at-the-table families - you'll be even more uncomfortable.

The holidays are the one time of year when almost everyone who is part of a family is grateful. They're not going to pass up the chance to pity and condescend to single people, whom they may well envy the other 11 months of the year.

by Anonymousreply 43November 14, 2021 12:54 AM

R43 in your scenario, I think I would prefer the latter. The unhappy family. I would find that far more entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 44November 14, 2021 12:57 AM

In my experience those kind of guests have always been more like wild cards who liven up the proceedings than pity guests everyone is tolerating. And my family will take any excuse to retell a family story for the 100th time because someone new is there to hear it. I guess it’s all a difference of perspective.

by Anonymousreply 45November 14, 2021 12:59 AM

That's one good thing about retiring in Florida; since I'm from the NE, "the holidays" never really feel like the holidays to me. I mean, how can it be Thanksgiving/Xmas when the high is 80+ degrees? So the holidays that I have spent alone in FL weren't nearly as depressing as they would have been if I had been "up home," where it would have been cold, gray, snowy, rainy, etc. Here in FL, I can spend Thanksgiving walking on the beach and Xmas riding my motorcycle if that's what I want to do.

As of now, those aren't my plans -- but you get the idea. Believe it or not, there are some good things about living in FL.

by Anonymousreply 46November 14, 2021 12:59 AM

Not at all. If for whatever reason I don't get an invite (which due to having family, is rare), I'm perfectly content to celebrate/cook/eat on my own. I cook well, and enjoy my own company.

However, from time to time I HAVE wished I had a group of close gay friends to take holiday road trips with & so on. But the reality is that most of my friends within a few years of my age (gay & not...and it IS a mixed group) have children, and lives of their own. My increasing habit of isolating over the last fifteen years, & the resulting alienation (on both parts) haven't helped, either.

The truth is that (at least on my part) I could've done a lot more to nurture those relationships along the way, and I take full responsibility for that. It's definitely a part of my (now ongoing) personal improvement, and the holidays are a wonderful opportunity to reach out via cards and boxes of homemade cinnamon hardtack (which I haven't sent in years but am planning to start again in a few weeks).

So, OP the answers are "no", and "yes", but I'm working to change that.

by Anonymousreply 47November 14, 2021 1:00 AM

OP, to R47’s point, the best thing I did during Covid was email a ton of friends/acquaintances asking anyone who wanted a holiday card to send me their address. It generated a lot of reconnecting. 95% of the time there aren’t hard feelings involved, people just don’t think to get back in touch.

by Anonymousreply 48November 14, 2021 1:04 AM

It isn't just gay men. I am a straight female and was divorced at 37. I had what I thought were a lot of good friends but no one ever invited me for any holidays. My kids were grown and the closest one lives 350 miles away. They would sometimes come home for the holidays but then they stopped our bus service then they closed down our regional airport. I use to travel to my kids for some holidays but then my health got bad and I couldn't travel. My two closest kids don't have cars (they live in big cities) and the one that does have a car is over 700 miles away. I have spent every holiday since 2010 by myself. I do get to see my kids on the phone on Christmas and the rest of the year but it's not quite the same. It doesn't bother me like it used because that's just the way it is. I used to make a turkey the night before Thanksgiving and spent the next day knowing everybody else still had it in front of them but I was already eating leftovers. I would decorate for Christmas until one year I did the best decorations ever and no one got to see it and I haven't decorated since. After a while they just become another day. It's okay to be alone.

by Anonymousreply 49November 14, 2021 2:10 AM

R49, I'm so sorry. My parents live 250 miles away but I still see them as often as I can, and I don't have a car. Even if there isn't a bus, couldn't your kids get a ride with someone?

by Anonymousreply 50November 14, 2021 2:15 AM

The holidays are overhyped. It's not mandatory that you celebrate them.

by Anonymousreply 51November 14, 2021 2:35 AM

Yes except for my immediate family. I’m lucky my parents and siblings love and accept me unconditionally and I never feel left out with them. I know a lot of people gay and straight don’t have families like mine.

by Anonymousreply 52November 14, 2021 2:39 AM

r50 my kids live in NYC and VA just outside DC. I live in the sticks. no one comes here anymore. I live in a town that has died and has less than 10,000 people. The one in VA had a stroke 6 years ago and then developed epilepsy so she isn't allowed to drive anymore. Both my girls used to come up in her car. I haven't seen any of my kids since 2018. One wants to fly home and then rent a car for the 2 hour trip but I think it is too much so always tell her no. Between the cost and length of time for her to get here it is too much. but it's okay, really

by Anonymousreply 53November 14, 2021 2:46 AM

Single woman in my 50s - in my 30s I became invisible. Married women (not all but a lot) like to be the star of their own show. They don’t want a single woman waltzing in with a pumpkin pie and chatting with their husbands, uncles and neighbors. Suddenly I felt frozen out. Then you get older and you sort of fade away. I’m going to clean out the garage on Thanksgiving.

by Anonymousreply 54November 14, 2021 2:47 AM

r54 I had that problem too. They all think you want their husbands. Why would I want leftovers? I had listened to them complain about their husbands over the years and always thought thank God he's not mine. I still didn't want him just because I was alone. I actually didn't want anyone and am okay by myself.

by Anonymousreply 55November 14, 2021 2:50 AM

R53 " . . . but it's okay, really."

I'm fine sitting here all by myself, in the dark. You kids just have a good time and don't worry about me.

by Anonymousreply 56November 14, 2021 2:52 AM

R53 Tell your dang kids it’s time for them to visit their mother and help them with the travel cost if you can. Just be direct and say you miss them and would like some company this holiday. You can ask your kids to do this for you, it’s okay.

by Anonymousreply 57November 14, 2021 2:55 AM


I used to dog sit for this couple.

And then he died.

And I was closer to him so I thought it might end.

But the widow invited me to still watch the dogs when she'd go away so, I did.

Then, one of the dogs died. And they're taking the smaller one with them.

I've been invited to watch two cats and a turtle now.

I feel so sad but I'm going to do this for my pal who died.

by Anonymousreply 58November 14, 2021 3:01 AM

No, I don't have a personality disorder. I wasn't neglected or abused or shunned. It's just the victim culture that's been gaining momentum (& will soon lose momentum) and those with screws loose in the top story who adhere to it like they adhere to every other bright & shiny excuse for their failure to do anything about their fucked up lives.

It's not holiday events that are difficult; it's the assholes who bring their fucking drama to the table.

by Anonymousreply 59November 14, 2021 3:04 AM

R51, I’m left out and alone most of the year. The holidays are just icing on the cake where it really drives home how alone I am.

by Anonymousreply 60November 14, 2021 3:08 AM

Pretty depressing that, somehow, holiday get-togethers are somehow "couples" events. I would un-friend anyone who excluded me based on my being single. It's really cliquish and downright mean, actually. How insecure can you be, as a couple, that you can only be around other couples.

Especially Christmas. If you are really Christian and you know that someone is lonely and would like to celebrate this holy day, it seems un-Christian to exclude someone.


by Anonymousreply 61November 14, 2021 3:10 AM

Just look down on those who celebrate a holiday based on the slaughter of people.

by Anonymousreply 62November 14, 2021 3:14 AM

Just keep in mind the grass is always greener - I had a friend invite me to her family’s thanksgiving last year and it ended up being miserable. Her parents hate each other and argued the whole time, her mother made some really hostile comments to me and my friend tried to act like everything was fine while her husband just sat and drank and drank. I ended up feeling much more stressed out and (strangely) lonely than if I had just stayed home and watched tv and checked Datalounge.

We singles have to remind ourselves that it can be just as stressful being around people you don’t connect with - the key is finding a partner or even a friend you love to be around. That’s what I am working on. These huge holiday family gatherings often have underlying drama and weirdness and stress. Nothing is perfect.

But yes OP - all that being said - I understand how you feel. It really sucks. Sending you a hug.

by Anonymousreply 63November 14, 2021 3:16 AM

[quote]Well, I (as a single lesbian) just got invited to a Thanksgiving dinner by a straight couple who I think want to convert me to their brand of Christianity. Wanna go to that one for me, OP?

I’m not joking when I say (as a single gay man) that the exact same thing happened to me a few years ago, and you do NOT want to attend like I foolishly did. The straight couple was very religious (which I knew) but they seemed nice (they were acquaintances) and I decided to go to their house for dinner when they invited me. Dinner was fine, but after dinner came all of the Christianity talk and trying to convert me.

Run! It’s like a cult initiation!

by Anonymousreply 64November 14, 2021 3:34 AM

[quote] yes, but I do feel like gay men have it worse off than most. It’s easier to find friends if you’re straight.

This is partially the fault of gay men. So many gays treat other gays like shit if they feel they are “beneath” them, and then one day they’re suddenly old and wonder why they don’t have any friends. Gay men would have more friends if they quit judging their fellow gay men so much. It’s one thing to judge a potential partner’s looks, finances, job, etc, but it’s silly to judge a potential friend by those things.

by Anonymousreply 65November 14, 2021 3:47 AM

When I was younger I used to spend holidays with friends, but in my 30s they all paired off and moved to the suburbs. I've never been interested in that, so that does leave me out of that equation. I've never been a terribly social person, and in my younger days copious amounts of alcohol served to ease my way into social situations.

As I have gotten older, I have become less interested in socializing, and certainly not as willing to get drunk in order to feel comfortable in social situations. I enjoy spending holidays on my own without the family drama that my friends tell me about from their holiday celebrations.

If I want to cook a big meal on a holiday I can, and if I don't want to I just skip it, or maybe have a bunch of junk food that I wouldn't allow myself to eat on a regular day. These days, when I receive an invitation to someone's holiday dinner I turn it down. I prefer to spend my holidays on my own.

by Anonymousreply 66November 14, 2021 3:49 AM

R64, off topic but my boyfriend’s late father was born and raised the son of a Southern Baptist pastor and used to invite the Jehova’s Witnesses in to try to convert them. He sometimes would keep them there for hours. He actually didn’t want to convert them, he had given up on formal religion but I think he enjoyed the discussions.

by Anonymousreply 67November 14, 2021 3:49 AM

OP, why not start a "Single Datalounger on Thanksgiving" thread that morning and spent the day chatting, laughing, and pointlessly bitching with all the people on this thread who will be alone too? It might be fun.

by Anonymousreply 68November 14, 2021 3:53 AM

It's hard to make friends!

OP it's odd but you can actually make friends with straight guys in so-so or unhappy marriages. Their kids are either teenagers or in college. The guy gets a man to bitch to about how his wife isn't putting out anymore, and you get a male friend to do things with, as long as they aren't too gay like sipping cocoa and looking at Christmas lights. But if you need a racquetball partner or a jogging buddy, straight lonely married guys can be golden!

by Anonymousreply 69November 14, 2021 3:56 AM

I don't mind being not included in holiday events.

I disliked holidays as a child, in part because my family was very strict about traditions and every holiday was an orchestrated slog from one detail to the next.

Don't mind skipping all of it.

Once my mother is gone I will never celebrate Thanksgiving again. I hate the food and I hate the people. No reason to sit through any of it.

by Anonymousreply 70November 14, 2021 3:58 AM

R68 someone would inevitably bring up:

Duchess Meghan Boris The Trans (tm) Something nasty about lesbians Defacto Troll Troll

And the thread would be ruined, thus encouraging everyone who was trying to enjoy it to commit suicide.

by Anonymousreply 71November 14, 2021 3:58 AM

R69 is correct. I have a few straight male friends that are in that category.

by Anonymousreply 72November 14, 2021 3:59 AM

I had an experience similar to R63 's. I went "home" for Thanksgiving a few years ago. It was stressful! My low back went out for no reason. There were about 3 people who were drunk. One of the drunk people (my sister) was poking the bear with another drunk person and I was cringing. (I thought he was on the verge of blowing up, and not in a good way.) The food wasn't that great as I remembered.

Never again.

by Anonymousreply 73November 14, 2021 4:16 AM

Go out in the street that morning and perform a zesty one-man dance routine to "Turkey Lurkey Time."

You'll be rolling in invitations!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 74November 14, 2021 4:25 AM

R68 let’s do it and let’s do one for Christmas. Let the trolls come. Wouldn’t be a true DL holiday celebration without them.

by Anonymousreply 75November 14, 2021 4:34 AM

R75 The thread theme song can be "Let it Trolls" sung to the tune of "Let it Snow".

by Anonymousreply 76November 14, 2021 4:39 AM

Nine times out of ten I would rather stay home BUT I like to know I was invited. My friend has had a cheesy “bingo and Croquet” birthday party EVERY year. It is a MUST go or rather you can’t get out of it. I have gone with a smile on my face for the last 15 years. She didn’t invite me this year!,!!!!! For her birthday I mailed a card, sent a text and left a phone message. Then I saw on her Facebook that she had the party with all of the usual people. It is sort of humiliating. So I will be “Datalounging” this Thanksgiving.

by Anonymousreply 77November 14, 2021 4:49 AM

R77, do you really care about not being invited to the croquet party? Sounds like you never really enjoyed it. Are you still friends with the hostess? Kind of weird for her not to invite you. Friendship dynamics are interesting.

by Anonymousreply 78November 14, 2021 4:56 AM

[quote]"Let it Trolls"

Oh, Holy Dear!

by Anonymousreply 79November 14, 2021 5:08 AM

It's still rude if he'd been invited for 15 years to suddenly not invite him and then post photos from the event. Sounds like that person no longer wants to be friends.

by Anonymousreply 80November 14, 2021 5:08 AM

🎶 Let it trolls, let it trolls, let it trolls! 🎵

by Anonymousreply 81November 14, 2021 5:09 AM

Re the croquet party - we have texted a few times, but I haven’t acknowledged that I knew about the party. At first I was REALLY hurt and embarrassed. I kept running through anything I might have said or done and I really can’t think of anything. My mom has been sick - I’m not a laugh a minute these days - but I am careful to not talk about it too much. I have known this woman since 1981 so this really torpedoed a feeling of “family” that I had for her and assumed that she had for me. She is all over me if she needs something or her ego is hurt by someone else. NO MORE for me. It just embarrasses me to think back at what point was the decision to not include me? AND after 15 years of the same people and same party - some guests would HAVE to notice that I wasn’t there and ask why - what was the reason given? Well…. Hell with it. I’d rather be here.

by Anonymousreply 82November 14, 2021 5:48 AM

R82 I am going to go a little bit out on a limb here.

I have hosted similar parties.

And I am ashamed to say that sometimes I have simply overlooked people - not because I didn't want them there but because I assumed they either already knew about the event or that I had invited them.

I would call her and mention this. It might be a glitch rather than a snub.

by Anonymousreply 83November 14, 2021 5:57 AM

I’ve been left out (not invited) by two friends who I introduced to each other. It was Halloween and we had all been discussing plans. The weekend of H-ween came and went. Then, I see photos of these two dressed up at a party. WTF.

by Anonymousreply 84November 14, 2021 6:14 AM

It could be that I was overlooked - that’s why I’m letting it settle down a little bit. It happened in October -I agree with you - it might have been a mistake. On the other hand she has never had a problem doing exactly what she wants - “MY party.” We’ll see. A few years ago her husband was a regular on a prime time variety show. Even though we spoke several times a week - she didn’t tell me he was on until it finished taping for the year. She took a mutual friend of ours to 5 tapings .I would have loved to be included. It made me wonder if she didn’t think I “fit in” - high school stuff. … Husband was let go so ….. Anyway - I apologize - this is about Thanksgiving. Let’s all have a happy one this year!!

by Anonymousreply 85November 14, 2021 6:20 AM

R84, that’s a purposeful slight towards you and they’re not your friends. Of course, that makes it hurt even worse as you realize how few friends you do have.

by Anonymousreply 86November 14, 2021 6:47 AM

Staying home and slapping his meat is all he knew.

by Anonymousreply 87November 14, 2021 7:31 AM

I've had one TG when I had no dinner to go to. It was wrenching. So I started doing dinners for single family-less people like me.

by Anonymousreply 88November 14, 2021 7:49 AM

Very kind of you R88.

by Anonymousreply 89November 14, 2021 8:02 AM

R77 you need to call this person and ask her what the problem is. Inviting someone for 15 straight years and then suddenly not inviting them is weird. If the friendship is over then you deserve a chance to get a parting shot in.

by Anonymousreply 90November 14, 2021 8:51 AM

I just stay inside over the holidays and cheer myself up playing Simon & Garfunkel, over and over:

A winter's day

In a deep and dark December

I am alone

by Anonymousreply 91November 14, 2021 10:51 AM

r88 have they been successful?

by Anonymousreply 92November 14, 2021 2:05 PM

Agree with r90, get a reason out of her, and let her have it if it's not sufficiently grovelling

by Anonymousreply 93November 14, 2021 2:09 PM

R77 fuck that frau and her dumb croquet party.

I would be hurt and embarrassed too. I would feel the same way as you do. But fuck her.


And I’m sorry about your mom.

by Anonymousreply 94November 14, 2021 2:46 PM

Thank you guys re my friends party. I had forgotten a funny / rotten thing she did to one of her husband’s friends a few years ago. It was Thanksgiving - she called me that night to let off steam at her trauma that day. Her husband’s friend brought his stylish old 90 year old dad. That was ok - she knew that. The melt down came when the old man prepared his “famous potato salad” and had the NERVE to bring it to the gathering!!!! SCANDAL! The friend brought a platelet of Italian cookies from Claros a little Family owned Italian chain in the San Gabriel Valley. She wouldn’t put those out either! As I recall she sent the cookies and potato salad home with them. So I guess she is an equal opportunity jerk!

by Anonymousreply 95November 14, 2021 4:10 PM

Plate not platlet

by Anonymousreply 96November 14, 2021 4:11 PM

If you do ever figure out what crime you committed against this frau to get disinvited from thanksgiving croquet please report back.

by Anonymousreply 97November 14, 2021 4:13 PM

R95 damn she is a rude cunt. You're better off without her!

However, now you must get revenge of some sort. Not only is she rude but she also made more work for you!

by Anonymousreply 98November 14, 2021 4:14 PM

Nov 15 to Jan 1 is the loneliest time of the year.

I'm a single elder gay, many of my closest friends have died, I have very few people around. My only relatives are across the country. Frankly, most of the year I don't care that much, there are plenty of things I can do to amuse myself. And every year I tell myself: don't let the holidays get you down. Just keep going on as you always do.

And then every year I get depressed from Nov 15 to Jan 1.

by Anonymousreply 99November 14, 2021 4:33 PM

I'm sorry, R99. Chin up -- you are not alone in your sentiments. And as I'm sure you know at this stage of your life, this too shall pass.

by Anonymousreply 100November 14, 2021 5:42 PM

R78, your first question raises an interesting point.

I received a very polite invitation from the woman who married my older brother who has hated me for displacing him when I was born. He always has. He always will.

He'll have occasional bursts of civility (yippee! ) but for the most part, he is always agitated by my presence. I endured this as a child because I had to. Dad, long, long, long gone (he wasn't around to whip older bro into shape, alas) and Mom is now gone too.

Rather than endure his presence, I'll roll the dice and even if I'm alone, it's better than being with people who don't like me.

by Anonymousreply 101November 14, 2021 5:47 PM

I find I yearn for things that have actually been gone for 20 or 30 years. Old family gatherings as a child with my parents … in my teens and twenties the camaraderie of the holiday season with school friends of single co workers. The mall, the music, the shopping, the planning, the anticipation of meeting new people and going new places - I have lost touch with most of those old friends - marriages, divorces, kids, deaths …. I just think in my mind Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Years as a single person - years ago was an adventure. The two songs that still wipe me out each year are George Michael’s Last Christmas and most of all Karen Carpenter’s Merry Christmas Darling.

by Anonymousreply 102November 14, 2021 5:50 PM

One year my uncle and his family stopped inviting my widowed mother, me and my brothers to the holidays.

At one point, it was just mom and me as the other brothers had gotten married and felt obligated to spend every Christmas with their spouses.

A few years ago, it was Mom's last Christmas; both brothers either had obligations or couldn't be bothered to fly in.

It was just Mom and me and that was fine. I brought her a Christmas tree plant as her place couldn't accommodate a full tree. We went out to dinner

I brought her a stocking filled with CVS stuff and a few gifts including a Vera Bradley bag. We went out to her favorite restaurant and she wasn't alone.

It sucks that gays are pretty much excluded. But all I can try to do is make my own happy life, meet someone who loves me and whom I love. Have my own traditions...it's certainly late in life to expect happiness but maybe I'll get lucky.

by Anonymousreply 103November 14, 2021 5:53 PM

I wouldn't confront croquet lady. I'd take the opportunity to drift apart from her. She sounds high-schoolish and tiring.

by Anonymousreply 104November 14, 2021 5:53 PM

R87, there are worse fates.

by Anonymousreply 105November 14, 2021 5:55 PM

R104 has good advice; most times, people simply do not care.

Croquet lady won't care that you slipped away; if she notices you're pulling back, she'll reach out and the party snub will either come up or not. Or she won't reach out at all for the same reasons she didn't invite you to a party.

I've introduced friends too and watched them pair off. They have more money than I do so that might be part of it.

Sometimes, I'll chime in "I"m from Jamestown." (We get that, right?)

by Anonymousreply 106November 14, 2021 5:59 PM

Yes Lucy!!

by Anonymousreply 107November 14, 2021 6:04 PM

Although Albuquerque is Top Drawer!

by Anonymousreply 108November 14, 2021 6:05 PM

Find people who are truly kind and accepting

by Anonymousreply 109November 14, 2021 6:18 PM

#103 - that was a lovely post about Christmas with your mom. I don’t have brothers, sisters or aunts or uncles. My mom is 85. She stayed vibrant and cool for YEARS and was in real estate. She was wonderful with her clients but I think she was also thrown a bit when the relationship/friendship didn’t last. She being of sort of the “Mary Richards” kind of gal - LOVED going to the office socializing that way. About 3 years ago she suddenly started to age rapidly. Her office changed management and after 35 years was let go without a slice of cake or a plant. The phone doesn’t ring. She reaches out but everyone seems to be with their caregivers or surrounded by grandkids. She didn’t plan ahead financially because like Willie Loman she was after the next big sale. Other people started noticing her age before she did. I’m sure she would have made different choices over the years in hindsight but you don’t think about it when your busy living your life at the moment. I have been going through an unsettled time of my own - I wish I could make things better for both of us. PS - I bought my mom a Vera Bradley bag this summer - your post was very sweet. I hope that you find that love, too.

by Anonymousreply 110November 14, 2021 6:24 PM

I hate "having" to go to these " holiday" things anyway ugg the horror !!! If i were you i would buy a good book your favorite meal and have a cosy day at home. OP YOU ARENT MISSING ANYTHING !!!!!

by Anonymousreply 111November 14, 2021 6:33 PM

I'm an introverted gay man and I always have to decline invitations during the holidays. While living abroad I actually went through great lengths to ensure I didn't have to go to another ex-pat's place for Thanksgiving.

by Anonymousreply 112November 14, 2021 6:37 PM

R110, thank you.

Sometimes I'm afraid to be vulnerable as posters here aren't always nice (traditionally, R1's -- tho not the one in this thread) -- are horrific in their responses.

I don't think I've cried out loud once since she's been gone and I don't know why. Perhaps because I know she's beyond pain; she was headed for life in a chair on oxygen if she had lived -- and that's no way to live.

I'm hoping she's reunited with the man she loved more than anything -- my dad.

I have absolutely no clue how I"m going to go about trying to find happiness but I'll sure give it a shot.

You sound like a great son too and I hope you find happiness as well.

by Anonymousreply 113November 14, 2021 7:00 PM

I got a card last year from a distant relative saying 'we're thinking of you.' -- it was the first holiday after my mom died.

I'm like...oh, you're thinking of me. but no invite. No invites pre-COVID.

I chuckled and tossed the card

by Anonymousreply 114November 14, 2021 7:09 PM

[quote]It sounds like you need some gay friends, and not just married straights with families.

Most gay people I know are coupled, especially the more years they have, and singles throw off the numbers.

by Anonymousreply 115November 14, 2021 7:14 PM

[quote] Most gay people I know are coupled, especially the more years they have, and singles throw off the numbers.

What does "throw off the numbers" mean? Thanksgiving is usually not a sit-down dinner with place cards and boy-girl-boy-girl going around the table.

by Anonymousreply 116November 14, 2021 7:20 PM

Well, perhaps not at the all you can eat buffets you attend, but outside thanksgiving and Christmas most people prefer even numbers.

by Anonymousreply 117November 14, 2021 7:23 PM

Still not understanding what advantage an even number has over an odd number.

by Anonymousreply 118November 14, 2021 7:26 PM

No, well, I can't help you then because it's how you say... fucking obvious.

by Anonymousreply 119November 14, 2021 7:28 PM

As a happily married woman with two kids I can say that holidays are hell and the reason we might forget to invite people or include them is because we cannot imagine anyone WANTING to participate. [R62] summarized holidays perfectly- someone getting drunk, yelling at someone else who is drunk- second drunk person cries, first drunk person - on and on. Food isn't really great, uncomfortable the whole time, tension in the air the whole time- the WORST. We do it because as KIDS it was fun to be around cousins and grandparents, aunts and uncles and we were oblivious. We want our kids to have the same memories- but if I didn't have kids there is NO WAY IN HELL I would subject myself to it on purpose. I have actually feigned the flu or work emergencies in the past and sent my husband with the kids to MY parents (he is a saint).

If my kids did not care and did not think it was all magical, I would have a cocktail party with neighbors and friends- and open house party- come if you feel like it, stay as long as you want, with everyone bringing awesome appetizer/ finger foods and I would set up little areas- like a pinata for adults, poker table, fondue, other fun stuff I would think of- and people could just come and chill if they felt like it- no expectations.

And to [R77] she is 100% being a mean girl. I am sorry. You could try to talk to her, and MAYBE there was a misunderstanding- but more likely she is just a mean girl and she will lie and say it was an oversight. I will say if it helps, that it happens to all of us, it sucks, but it's not you.

by Anonymousreply 120November 14, 2021 7:50 PM

We have always tried to include anyone without somewhere to go in our Holiday meals etc. Many years in the past it would mean having several single guests. They always have fun and are appreciative. We are fine when it is just the two of us as well. Now we are long in the tooth so having big dinners is getting difficult.

by Anonymousreply 121November 14, 2021 8:04 PM

You need an overweight single woman who has given up on guys, has plenty of money and loves to cook. She will make holiday dinners three or four times a year, and if you bring your chili pine nut brownies, everyone will rave about them. There will be no gay men there, just self-sufficient women who haven't figured out they're lesbians and maybe an nephew who's on the spectrum.

by Anonymousreply 122November 14, 2021 8:23 PM

I don't care about holiday events, but I do miss sex.

by Anonymousreply 123November 14, 2021 8:41 PM

As a single guy in his 50's I've found that the wed before TG is a sure-fire "get laid if you go out to a bar" night because there are so many new people in town to see family.

I'm really fine the years I'm not around family on the holidays, they stopped being fun once me and my siblings were in our late 20's - they were good again when the nieces and nephews were kids, but now that they're all adults it's back to being rote and rather dull again.

by Anonymousreply 124November 14, 2021 8:52 PM

r122 giving up on men and wanting to fuck other women are two different things. Not to defend the fraus, but what you wrote is why a single woman having a party for her friends would not invite a gay man - because she would have a feeling THAT is exactly how he would describe it to his friends while laughing about how fat she is and how she and her fat friends are secretly a bunch of pathetic dykes.

We can’t have it both ways - want to be included but also be incredibly judgmental and nasty about the people who would include us. I think people can sense that and don’t want it around.

I realize you’re likely just kidding and it’s not that deep - I think it’s striking a nerve because I would say (or think) something similar and then I wonder why I’m not invited to stuff.

I’m not articulating myself well but I hate this weird dichotomy I have of wanting to be included but also being disgusted by most people.

by Anonymousreply 125November 14, 2021 9:01 PM

Get used to it. I don't even bother suggesting anything now, as I know the response will be "We're kinda busy. Why don't you come over when we have dinner?".

by Anonymousreply 126November 14, 2021 9:16 PM

[quote] and singles throw off the numbers

I’ll never forget the small-mindedness of a friend of mine who complained about how irritating it was to have single people at her wedding because of the seating chart. Some people can’t see beyond the end of their own nose.

by Anonymousreply 127November 14, 2021 9:27 PM

yes, if someone had a dining room table for six and then 'leafs' I think they were called could extend the table to accommodate 8 or 10, then yes, God forbid a single gay person is invited to make it 11 or 9....how WILL we survive the holidays?

by Anonymousreply 128November 14, 2021 10:36 PM

R128, you have just described the type of thing that sends suburban white women into a spiral. An ODD NUMBER of people at the table! That is not done! (To the husband) How DARE you invite him without asking? We'll have to put the leaf in, and we'll have an empty chair! I'll be humiliated. Go get me my wine!!!

by Anonymousreply 129November 14, 2021 10:43 PM

FWIW, OP, I hear the same thing from my straight friends who are single and in their 30s.

Same deal--their married friends assume they would not want to be around small kids, those friends are still navigating having to deal with both families at the holidays and thus feel they'd be terrible hosts, or they assume their single friends have something to do.

Guys have it worse than women, because they are less prone to express that they are lonely/going to be alone.

by Anonymousreply 130November 14, 2021 10:49 PM

R129, you're giving me flashbacks. I worked in a photo center where you could also make your own Christmas cards. One woman's didn't turn out the way she wanted and she huffed at me" Wait until I tell my husband about this!" Your husband doesn't care, lady.

by Anonymousreply 131November 14, 2021 10:51 PM

Church is over. Time to be an asshole to some restaurant employee.

by Anonymousreply 132November 14, 2021 11:17 PM

Not a short term solution, not a guaranteed one, but it pays to have friends who are not all the same age.

Like women living together who start having the same calendar of periods, friends in their 20s and 30s can sometimes seem to get married all in one cycle.

Older friends and younger friends are great for los of reasons, but they also break up that voting block effect and they're more interesting many times, and interested.

by Anonymousreply 133November 14, 2021 11:52 PM

I'm a single, gay man, and I want to meet a man. But I really have to admit I don't mind being alone at times. I'm going to see my brothers, their spouses, and families at Christmas, so I don't need to see them this Thanksgiving. I have one brother who lives close to me, and he hasn't invited me to spend Thanksgiving with him and his partner. I hope they don't. I ordered a pie this morning from a local bakery. And I want to cook my own meal, like I did last year.

I survived the pandemic pretty well. Yes, I love my relatives, but I don't have to be with them on every holiday.

OP, cultivate a network of friends.

by Anonymousreply 134November 15, 2021 12:03 AM

When I lived in a more suburban area I enjoyed being “nosy” - not Percy nosy - just nosy. I enjoyed going to the supermarket and shop but with no pressure observe frantic people shopping. On Thanksgiving in the morning I would go out for coffee and breakfast. In the late morning I would take a long brisk walk around the neighborhood - hit some unfamiliar streets - really take a look at some of the neat details of houses and yards that you don’t notice when you are driving. I enjoy the different smells from the chimneys and you can smell the cooking smells. People are usually coming or going and friendly. I’d have a small dinner at home - Miracle on 34th Street used to run in the afternoon every year - not anymore. Then I’d run back out to the store for something - just to see humans. Then it’s dark by 5 - take a shower - have a drink stream a good show - Thanksgiving is over.

by Anonymousreply 135November 15, 2021 1:23 AM

Pervy not percy!

by Anonymousreply 136November 15, 2021 1:24 AM

Love that R135

by Anonymousreply 137November 15, 2021 1:47 AM

Interesting thread. My holidays up until my early 20s were all a lot of fun being with family. The adults enjoyed it as much as we younger kids did. I coupled up after undergrad, moved far away from home to be with him, and my ex and I spent our holidays together.

In my 30s I was single again, and that's probably when I was at my loneliest. Still, I could always go home for Thanksgiving or Christmas to be with my mother, my brother and his family, or I got invited by my aunt, uncle and cousins who moved down South (originally from Northeast). I usually traded every other year between the two.

I spent Thanksgiving alone many times. I created a ritual. I'd watch one of my favorite miniseries and stretch it out over the weekend. I actually enjoyed my alone time when that would happen. I'd make it celebratory and buy expensive champagne and really good food. I guess I always thought of Thanksgiving and Christmas as family holidays because that's how I was raised. I'd get invitations but turn them down. As others have mentioned, it's hard being on the outside like that. I can see a bunch of disparate singles making a good party, though.

It can be awful how coupled gays treat their single friends. I used to hang out with a group of guys. There were two couples and two of us were single (me being one of them). When the other single guy got coupled up, suddenly I was no longer invited to many things. Worst of all was they'd talk about their many outings that I wasn't invited to on the odd occasions when I was invited somewhere.

I stopped hanging out with them. When I met my current partner, they started to try to get us to go out with them. I said no thanks. You marginalized me when I was single. I won't be going back to your group now that I'm coupled up. Just an awful way to treat people. I'm not sure if it was intentional, but it was extremely insensitive at the very least which meant I was not interested in being around people like that.

by Anonymousreply 138November 15, 2021 6:13 AM

I didn't read the entire thread, but there is nothing stopping OP or any single gay man from making a Thanksgiving Dinner and inviting other people he knows who might not have family or partners. I did that for years and enjoyed it. You don't even really have to know how to cook, because these days a person can order a complete Thanksgiving dinner from almost any grocery store. However, I enjoy cooking. I don't think it ever occurred to me to blame other people for not inviting me to a holiday dinner.

by Anonymousreply 139November 15, 2021 6:41 AM

You mean to say you haven't known enough rotten people over the years that you're grateful to be alone on holidays? Wow, what a charmed or naive life you've led!

by Anonymousreply 140November 15, 2021 7:43 AM

I love company, but I am happy to spend some time alone with my little girl, a pekingese on holidays.

by Anonymousreply 141November 15, 2021 8:07 AM

OP, I really feel you. I'm now 40, but have been going through this whole rigamarole since I was in my 20's. My family as an entity all hate each other, we have all been estranged for 10+ years. Even when I had a partner, especially in my 20's/early 30's, a lot of them were in a glass closet and going to their home for the holidays was not an option. In my mid 30's I decided is was not going to be the lone loser at a friends family dinner, which wasn't even fun (straights w/ children). I just never got to have the "Looking" gaggle of gay friends and maybe I am more a loner.

For the last 12 years, I always do a 3-4 week international trip somewhere good. This year I'll be heading to all the surging spots of Europe, but it's better then being home. This is a great time to travel (as in your age). Still now, whenever I travel alone, I always meet guys and new friends who I wound't meet if I had a travel buddy. I know these days will come to an end sooner than later, so I do take advantage.

I actually do volunteer for the eldergays on Thanksgiving, making sure they get meals, etc. If you have your health, a home, a decent job, you are lucky. There are a ton a single gays who have no money, live off of food bank food, and have serious health conditions. I live in a major city with resources. A lot of these guys have lost partners, no family, spent their money trying to save their partners. These are guys in their late 50's+

Anyway, be decadent, spoil yourself. Every married w/ children I know is on the brink of divorce and wished they never had children.

by Anonymousreply 142November 15, 2021 8:20 AM

Not personally, but then I'm an only child with a surviving parent, so my invite home for holidays is graven in stone. When circumstances like Covid force us to go it alone we're fine with that, and we usually go have Christmas with the extended family. (Thanksgiving is more chancy because the cousins hosting live so far away.)

by Anonymousreply 143November 15, 2021 8:20 AM

R142 That is a good advice. Even though for me it wouldn't work because I can't leave my little girl alone for a long time. I usually travel in vicinity, in car, cause she would be scared shitless to be put in a box on the plane, and we stay in Airbnbs where they accept dogs.

by Anonymousreply 144November 15, 2021 8:52 AM

[quote] One wants to fly home and then rent a car for the 2 hour trip but I think it is too much so always tell her no. Between the cost and length of time for her to get here it is too much. but it's okay, really

R53 for God’s sake stop telling her not to come and that it is too expensive. It’s actually an insult. On some level your daughter thinks you don’t want to see her and before you know it, she won’t even offer to come and you’ll be alone forever.

It’s her money and her choice to come and visit her mother. Accept it as the honour it is and welcome her with open arms.

by Anonymousreply 145November 15, 2021 9:14 AM

[quote] It was Thanksgiving - she called me that night to let off steam at her trauma that day. Her husband’s friend brought his stylish old 90 year old dad. That was ok - she knew that. The melt down came when the old man prepared his “famous potato salad” and had the NERVE to bring it to the gathering!!!! SCANDAL! The friend brought a platelet of Italian cookies from Claros a little Family owned Italian chain in the San Gabriel Valley. She wouldn’t put those out either!

A 90 year old brought food and and she didn’t put it out? Was this woman raised in a cave?

by Anonymousreply 146November 15, 2021 9:20 AM

Invite that guy and his elderly father - have them bring their potato salad and Italian cookies - over to your place the same night cuntfrau is having her tedious shitfest.

Then post pictures.


I wouldn’t be surprised if the following year others from her invite list migrated over to your shindig.

by Anonymousreply 147November 15, 2021 10:50 AM

Like a lot of things in life: we don't actually want to go, but we sure want to feel needed and invited.

by Anonymousreply 148November 15, 2021 11:37 AM

R148 Yours is the most lucid comment

by Anonymousreply 149November 15, 2021 12:03 PM

"Just invite me! I promise I won't come. But just invite me."

by Anonymousreply 150November 15, 2021 12:20 PM

R150, yeah, that.

I remember first hearing that when I was a teenager. A girl friend of mine was talking about a very shy guy we both knew and said that she had been sure to invite him to the BBQ we were having that weekend. Another friend said "He's too shy for parties - you know he won't come," and she responded "Yes, but it cheers him up to be invited."

by Anonymousreply 151November 15, 2021 2:55 PM

She sounds like a real sweetheart.

Hope she is having a good life.

by Anonymousreply 152November 15, 2021 4:34 PM

R152 My thought, too.

by Anonymousreply 153November 15, 2021 4:37 PM


Yeah I'm same as you, OP. All my straight friends "loved!" me and found me vital to their social lives - as a fun extra or source of entertainment, apparently - until they shacked up, tied the knot and had kids. Once they got serious about their lives, texts and voicemails went unanswered and I wasn't invited to their family gatherings anymore.

Yes, wallow a bit in the unfairness of it all. You have been labeled "a loser" and a "we'll see him when we see him" expendable person......whether they'll admit to it or not.....but fuck that. SERIOUSLY. Don't let married people let you feel devalued. Don't let the holidays do it either.

Do keep looking for cool people who will take you up on your invites- I would! - and also make plans with yourself for yourself.

And if you like them, please send time with your loved ones in the nursing homes. Like....6 hours. Take them out for hot chocolate. I guarantee they'll appreciate the attention more than these other "I'm so busy!!" types.

Don't let others bring you down like this. I hate how XMAS does this, encourages this and makes people feel shitty for 2 months.


by Anonymousreply 154November 15, 2021 4:54 PM

I want to marry either r154 or someone just like him.

by Anonymousreply 155November 15, 2021 5:02 PM

OP I have a friend that put together a Christmas gathering for older singles at a community center in her town through her local paper. If you live in a gay friendly area maybe you can contact your local paper and organize something similar?

by Anonymousreply 156November 15, 2021 5:07 PM

I wouldn't be too harsh on straight friends who get married and have kids and then lose touch. Yes, sometimes you get completely dropped and it's not fair, but even my straight parents fell out of touch with old friends once they had my brother and me. They got back in touch as we got older, but I'd hear them talk about how all-consuming having a family can be. My brother and I would only sporadically be in touch during his child rearing years. Once the kids became horrible teenagers who would rather be caught dead than hanging with their parents, I'd hear from my brother and other friends with whom I'd lost touch.

I've been around parents with kids. If I'm around my niece and her kids for more than a few hours, I just need to get away and take a break. It's exhausting.

I've gotten back in touch with several friends when the raising-the-kids phase is over and it's lovely to catch up and hang around again. I never took it personally. I just drew parallels to my own life. I have a career that was very demanding the first few years. I lost touch with a lot of people during that phase because of the demands on my time. When I'd have a free day, I just wanted to relax and have time to myself. I don't think it's really any different for many of our straight friends when it comes to the child raising years.

by Anonymousreply 157November 15, 2021 5:17 PM

I find that whether I mean to or not people find me “funny” - that is really great sometimes - odd at other times - it’s unsettling when the shampoo girl keeps giggling “You are so funny!” I think it is my vocal pattern - sometimes the last thing I am being is funny and people think I’m funny. I am observant and candid but not trying to be funny.…. Years ago a guy I went on a date with said “You remind me EXACTLY of Teri Garr in Tootsie!” - Well - when you think back - that isn’t a compliment - her character was a mopey airhead dingbat. …. I feel sometimes when I am included in a gathering I am expected to be up and clever and be Eve Arden for the evening. I find as I get older and life is more serious some people I counted on as friends are impatient if I am not happy or worried - I’m rambling and I can’t quite make my point - I feel some times as a single person at a gathering ( not with true blue friends) people expect me to channel Rhoda Morgenstern.

by Anonymousreply 158November 15, 2021 6:05 PM

IME, after raising kids, people then go into taking care of grandchildren. It never ends.

by Anonymousreply 159November 15, 2021 6:21 PM

As well, once the kids start coming into their own, parents start living their own lives through them. Which is a nice way of saying they won't shut up about their latest accomplishments.

Why do they think I care? Worse, they know perfectly well I don't have kids and so can't counter their Julie at Princeton with my twins at Harvard.

by Anonymousreply 160November 15, 2021 7:27 PM

Love R154.

I think R157 has a good attitude. I understand it rationally - since my sister had her kids - they barely socialize and when they do it's with other people with kids, BUT it still hurts when you're dropped by your married friends. Even when it's not personal. And agreed - it's EXHAUSTING to be around children, I just want a break whenever I have to see them for extended amounts of time. Can't imagine it being nonstop.

Like everyone has said - we singles need to just try to find other singles to connect with (if not partners) and remember we aren't alone in feeling shitty around the holidays. Whenever I'm feeling a negative emotion - shame, loneliness, disappointment, sadness - I just remember that I'm not unique and millions of other people have felt the same way for hundreds of years.

by Anonymousreply 161November 15, 2021 7:36 PM

Maybe just accept that, for singles, the holidays have some sadness mixed in. It's a tradeoff, like everything else in life. As singles, we do get to have a lot of things our own way (don't need to compromise).

However, remember that the entire holiday season (autumn, actually) does not need to be sad. I actually like the holiday season, the cooler weather, the coziness (yes, I like cozy). I even like some of the old school Christmas music and have a small playlist.

by Anonymousreply 162November 15, 2021 7:46 PM

[quote] Whenever I'm feeling a negative emotion - shame, loneliness, disappointment, sadness -


by Anonymousreply 163November 15, 2021 8:55 PM

Lots of reasonable suggestions in this thread.

Here is a less reasonable one.

Live your life, and enjoy yourself and your free time. And also, plot to throw wrenches into the paths of your former friends. Sabotage, evil gossip, turning one friend against another, anonymous reports to the school about little Jadyn's suspicious test scores and how he got them, a basket of poisoned apples... All the while continue to pretend to be their best friend when they call so they don't suspect anything as their lives slowly fall apart.

Then sit back and stroke your kitty and laugh while drinking Chablis by the fireplace and the nearby table groaning with a delicious restaurant-catered Thanksgiving dinner for four (two servings for you right then and two for leftovers later).

by Anonymousreply 164November 16, 2021 1:19 AM

R164 Leftovers are for the cat.

Where will you be if he turns on you?

by Anonymousreply 165November 16, 2021 1:26 AM

R165 good point.

by Anonymousreply 166November 16, 2021 1:27 AM

[quote] Live your life, and enjoy yourself and your free time. And also, plot to throw wrenches into the paths of your former friends. Sabotage, evil gossip, turning one friend against another, anonymous reports to the school about little Jadyn's suspicious test scores and how he got them, a basket of poisoned apples... All the while continue to pretend to be their best friend when they call so they don't suspect anything as their lives slowly fall apart.

OMG! You are my soul mate R164. My best friends did get married and I did see just how disposable I am. Now as they are getting a divorce often egged on by their other duplicitous, unhappy married friends (whom I was ditched for - "they have children"), I first bathe in their tears and then ghost them.


by Anonymousreply 167November 16, 2021 3:05 AM

People with kids like to commiserate with other people who have kids, couples like to commiserate with other couples. Rest assured that those friendships won't last as divorce inevitably begins and small children become asshole teenagers. And you will continue to be what you've always been- yourself, as that's what being single really is.

by Anonymousreply 168November 16, 2021 4:14 AM

When your friends dump you after things get serious and then have a destination wedding in the Maldives, you can ensure their happiness is short lived with a little black magic.

You were invited six days before the wedding (the "C" list), but they didn't expect you to come - they just wanted that Victorinox Forschner Swiss Classic 14-piece Walnut Swivel Knife Block Set from their registry. Not you!

You decided to make a vacation of it anyway, so you could cast this spell during their vows:

Knot a black cord thirteen times while you sit in the unfashionable seats way in the back at the happy couple's wedding.

While making the knots, chant this spell, one time for each knot:

As this marriage is begun

I curse it 'till the day it's done

Knots of anger, knots of hate

Make unhappiness their fate

Then arrange to put the knotted cord somewhere on their new, gorgeous property with the climbing ivy and decorative brickwork.

Their marriage will be doomed. Doomed!!

by Anonymousreply 169November 16, 2021 4:39 AM

I had a friend and he died and I sent his kid a gift for his birthday and his widow called me up crying and she said she is having a party but she kept it to people with kids but that I was welcome and I told her I was home taking care of my elderly mother, which I was. I felt horribly for her. She's alone now and is trying to do her best.

But I lost al ot when I lost him; we all did. I lost him and his family. I hope she remarries someday.

by Anonymousreply 170November 16, 2021 7:12 AM


You just made my day. Thank you for saying that. I'm really touched. Maybe there's hope after all!


by Anonymousreply 171November 16, 2021 7:23 AM

...and r157 you are so right. Once you're responsible for another human life, it pushes everything and everyone off your To Do list.

... I think for us gay/bi folks who look perhaps too much for acceptance from others, though, the "I married, had kids and have a mortgage - no time for you now, sorry not sorry!" can sound like bragging or nananana-na-na rubbing the successful hetero normative lifestyle in our faces.

Gay = alone and unwanted. Gay = you made wrong choices about how to live your life. Gay = no kids. Gay = not really part of the family.

^these are the warnings and fears that are force fed to us that we internalize.

Xmas and all the branding hooplah just reinforces it. See? No one really wants you at their table. See? Without parenthood life is meaningless. See? People you love don't really love you back. You're not a priority to them.

It's awful but the holidays dredge all that stuff up. And the rejections seem to cut deeper....even if they're really only coming from sleep-deprived friends desperately accommodating family members.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking people's lives are perfect just because they have guests and lights and no time for you. You're great, even if they fail to say so.

Give some joy to others. Seriously do some volunteering, or just reach out to the family and friends you know also didn't make the guest list. Give hugs. Lord knows we all need them.

You get to decide what the holidays mean for you.

by Anonymousreply 172November 16, 2021 7:40 AM

[quote]People with kids like to commiserate with other people who have kids, couples like to commiserate with other couples.

Secretly, some of them know what insufferebale twats they've become with the house in the suburbs and the giant SUVs (to haul the giant baby carriers), armored and removed from everything, child-proofed and censored. They know better than to expose themselves to people who have lives outside of children or (equally bad) elaborate wedding planning, not to protect others but to protect themselves against thoughts of what they have given up.

by Anonymousreply 173November 16, 2021 10:32 AM

Not at all! And I especially enjoy having to bunk up with the nephews and cousins!

by Anonymousreply 174November 16, 2021 11:28 AM

R172 love that. Very very true.

by Anonymousreply 175November 16, 2021 1:02 PM

[quote] I felt horribly

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 176November 16, 2021 2:04 PM

I had a female friend I met at work years ago when she was single. We became very close, she eventually started banging a guy in the office, I was friends with him too. I went to their wedding, went to their apartment for gatherings, went on day trips with them, went to her mother's funeral, they eventually had a kid, came to my parents' home down south with the kid, etc.

Then they had another kid and moved to the suburbs. I still saw her for lunch in the city occasionally and she would say I had to come see their house in the suburbs, I said sure I would love to, she kept pushing the date further in the future ("Oh you'll have to come in the fall" "oh you'll have to see the house after the holidays" "oh you'll definitely come in the spring"). It started to feel like she really didn't want me coming out to see them. I was okay with that - figured whatever - I'm not dying to take a Saturday and go to the suburbs.

Then COVID happened. We texted in the VERY beginning about how crazy it was and then fell off. Then I texted her in the winter and she took about 6 weeks to respond. Sent a very long over-the-top ridiculous text about what a "darling" I am and how horribly sorry she is for being out of touch and I "must" come see their house, "maybe in the spring?"

Now reading this thread, I'm thinking maybe I was projecting about her dropping me and not wanting me to come over. Maybe she is too busy and scattered and it was nothing personal. Granted the "darling" thing was obnoxious, but who cares.

Thanks for the perspective. It's easy to get wrapped up in your own bullshit sometimes and assume people are out to get you.

by Anonymousreply 177November 16, 2021 3:59 PM

r177 Sometimes they are.

by Anonymousreply 178November 16, 2021 7:28 PM

R177, here's my perspective on your post. It does sound like your friend is dodging you. Yes, people are busy, but they also make time for things they deem "important." Really, how much planning and time would it take to invite you over for a coffee and tour of new house? The "darling" text sounds sketchy as well.

I've been ghosted and I've ghosted. This sounds like she is trying to let go of the friendship.

by Anonymousreply 179November 16, 2021 7:33 PM

r179 who initiates these text exchanges, you or her? It sounds like you text her and then wait for her to respond.

If she isn't bothering to keep in touch with you and initiate contact at least some of the time, you may as well just let the friendship drop, as she clearly doesn't value it that much. I doubt she's avoiding you intentionally but clearly she has other priorities, and you are not even remotely close to one of them.

by Anonymousreply 180November 16, 2021 7:36 PM

177 - it could be that with the move and the second kid that she has lost a big chunk of herself. Maybe she has let the house “get away” from her and she keeps thinking - ok by the fall I’ll have it together…. she might have put on weight - 5 pounds and a missed hair appointment can make a person feel like a beast if she is already feeling bad about herself. Maybe she wants to get Stanley Steemer over before she has company but can’t find the time or money to do it. . She might feel like she is boring. I sometimes feel embarrassed that I haven’t done something new or accomplished something more when I am doing a “touch base” text. I think that this woman is just not feeling like herself and is being self protective - I don’t think it is about you.

by Anonymousreply 181November 16, 2021 7:41 PM

r181 I agree, she has probably done all sorts of drugs to push off the ennui of suburban life and the burden of children and nights of crying ("I didn't think having a husband and children would be like this!!!"), and has been probably seconds from hanging herself in the oven, with only r177's texts keeping her from going to her Final Rest.

by Anonymousreply 182November 16, 2021 7:44 PM

Here's what needed to happen with the 90 year old gent and his potato salad: as you are getting ready to leave and that bitch hands you the bowl to take home, make sure to loosen the saran wrap/lid over the bowl as you're saying your goodbyes. Then turn to leave and "trip", thereby pitching the entire thing onto the carpeted floor. If the floor is not carpeted, fling it into the couch or an upholstered chair.

That'll fix her!!

by Anonymousreply 183November 16, 2021 8:15 PM

I have to admit I have known the snotty hostess for many years - in the earlier years she would swan and twirl around her gatherings in stiff crinolines like she was Loretta Young. As she has entered the Italian cookie / potato salad years - her manner and demeanor has become stiff and sterile like Mary Tyler Moore in “Ordinary People.”

by Anonymousreply 184November 16, 2021 8:25 PM

This Thanksgiving, my boyfriend is travelling to visit his family (I'm not going, thank God). I'll spend about three hours with my family who doesn't like me very much (major Trumpers) and that will be that. I'll be alone the rest of the weekend.

I'm sure people I know in the city will be having a FRIENDSGIVING but won't invite me. If I'm feeling charitable, it's because they expect, btw my boyfriend and my local family, I'll be busy. If I'm being mean to myself, it's because they really don't like me that much.

I hate this time of year.

by Anonymousreply 185November 16, 2021 8:41 PM

It’s R177 here - I didn’t respond to the “darling!” text for a couple days and then wrote and said “no problem!” And I haven’t reached out to her since and she never reached out to me. I do think she was letting the friendship go - which is shitty - I was a good friend to her for years - but also who knows the reason and I’m better off without her. I don’t want to hear about her kids and her suburban life and she was making no effort to be a friend to me - so no real loss there - just hurt feelings.

by Anonymousreply 186November 16, 2021 9:01 PM

[quite] I was a good friend to her for years - but also who knows the reason and I’m better off without her. I don’t want to hear about her kids and her suburban life and she was making no effort to be a friend to me - so no real loss there

I see this tit-for-tat, like-for-like expectation of friends as reciprocating machines. "I was there for her when..." but "she wasn't there for her when I needed emotional support/a $500 loan to fix my car/help moving my extensive vinyl collection/to be told that I still look pretty.".

People who try to monetize every give and get are inevitably disappointed because the accounting never goes in their favor.

If you thought of your friends in what they brought you in terms of different perspective, humor, knowledge of stupid things some of which in time you begin to like, to appreciate that somebody "gets" you without being like you, to be the first person yo take over your gardening chores and make a paradise of your wilted plants but the last person who would ever bring you a cake or drive you to the airport.

I'm friends with people much older and much younger, from very different places in life, a good many of whom would probably mystify strangers that we were friends at ll. I don't lean on them for emotional advice or financial support or to do heavy physical lifting - unless they've expressed some explicit interest. Yet the same stranger if he stuck around a bit would see that I have an great easiness and pleasure being with good friends. It's based on how we treat each other and the affection we have. It's not measured on "I did this and he didn't in turn do that..."

They're not my employees. I don't measure the value of what they do for me in currency or mirrored reciprocation.

Many people on DL have attitudes toward money that are very different than mine. And friendship, too. I think there's a relationship between the two things in people who are often hurt by their friends, or question that their friends are friends at all.

by Anonymousreply 187November 16, 2021 10:06 PM

2021 will be the first time in 20 years that I haven't bern alone for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

by Anonymousreply 188November 16, 2021 10:10 PM

Friendships are often transitory. It sucks but we change and some friendships weren't deep enough to survive. I have a very very small group of core friends who I can count on - lifers. Actually, three in total. That's who I feel I can count on (and one surely has Asperger's he's so emotionally useless.) I can't count on two hands the ones who've come and gone. Especially the straights... their lives form around the kids, school parents and other couples. It sucks. It happens.

by Anonymousreply 189November 16, 2021 10:20 PM

Fuck the straights.

Well, if the husband is hot, even literally.

by Anonymousreply 190November 16, 2021 10:48 PM

I was invited by a very good friend up to the Cape for Tgiving, but I can't really afford it. My family has decided to go to the house of a drunk Trumper and I don't want to go there. My partner will be out of town. I'll be alone, probably. Hope I don't drink all day.

by Anonymousreply 191November 16, 2021 10:49 PM

[quote] I was a good friend to her for years - but also who knows the reason and I’m better off without her. I don’t want to hear about her kids and her suburban life and she was making no effort to be a friend to me - so no real loss there - just hurt feelings.

R186, it happens. I think she did you a favor, actually. Yes, it hurts.

by Anonymousreply 192November 16, 2021 10:55 PM

I have friends who for various child-rearing or career reasons I have been in more or less contact with over the decades; but my attitude is they’re my friends — and friends accept each other for where that are in life. Those things change over time, and friendships go through periods of more or less closeness; but everything in life goes through cycles. Falling-outs do happen, but sometimes after a few years they can be overcome as well.

by Anonymousreply 193November 16, 2021 11:03 PM

True but being alone on a holiday meant to celebrate family (in any form) and closeness and togetherness can hurt a lot.

by Anonymousreply 194November 16, 2021 11:07 PM

All your straight hags and dudes could not clean the paws of my best friend. And she is faithful and loyal, not like your upstart suburban bitches.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 195November 16, 2021 11:19 PM

R187 wtf are you talking about? I stayed in contact with that straight woman and I was a good friend to her - listened to all her drama about her affair with the guy at work , supported them, went to their wedding, was there for her when her mother died, had her and her kid and husband to my parents’ home, etc etc etc. She gradually stopped reaching out to me, didn’t invite me to her new house, took 6 weeks to respond to a stupid text message and then didn’t hear from her again. She likely isn’t feeling the friendship anymore OR she’s too busy and that’s fine. I’m not going to hunt her down and force her to explain herself. And I am allowed to say I have hurt feelings even though in the grand scheme of things - this happens and it’s not that deep. I don’t wish her any harm, if she reaches out in the future when her kids are older, I’m not holding some crazy grudge.

From your pedestal - please explain how you would handle that situation differently with your legions of old and young friends.

by Anonymousreply 196November 16, 2021 11:51 PM

In your private life, don't spend any time with people you don't like. If there's no reciprocity in your friendships, let them go. No point in staying angry. You don't need the bile that comes of that. If people have let you go, oh well. Can't be helped. Don't spend another minute thinking about them. Who needs the negativity? Find things, activities and people who make you happy. You have but one life. Spend it on what you love.

by Anonymousreply 197November 17, 2021 12:46 AM

R177, I wouldn’t be surprised if your friend feels shame about getting older/fatter, her life seeming more out of control, her marriage maybe not being so happy, her house looking like crap. Maybe she thinks of you as someone there for the best times and she wants to idealize how cool her life was with you, not incorporate you into the more run-down version of her life now. I bet it’s really not about you. That doesn’t make it right but it’s not something in your control.

by Anonymousreply 198November 17, 2021 12:50 AM

Mentioning this because it fits the thread topic: I just watchrd "Spinster" starting Chelsea Peretti and it actually was cute and had a nice message, for straight women and gays alike. It's on Amazon Prime. Check it out if you're feeling lonely!

by Anonymousreply 199November 17, 2021 12:53 AM

Thanks R199 I will check it out! And thank you - r198 that’s very kind and wise.

by Anonymousreply 200November 17, 2021 2:07 AM

What I have learned the hard way, even with long term friendships since teenage/early 20's - if people don't return your text or respond to you within a reasonable time, you are over valuing your friendship and you are a low priority. I gave who I thought was a best friend the pass with kids. I went out with her really close married friend, who I was excited to meet, and she kept going on about my friend (who literally takes weeks) is always texting her witty asides. Total gut punch. My friend married very rich and so I keep her in my back pocket, but my heart isn't in it anymore. I do think the fun GBF for many women is a time and a place in their lives that don't fit into their married.

This goes for anyone. Most of the population can't live without their phone in hand. If they don't text or respond it is because they simply don't want to. I wish I had grasped this earlier.

by Anonymousreply 201November 17, 2021 3:39 AM

R201 that's the case if it happens consistently, but it's not always the reason that they don't value the relationship.

Speaking for myself, I tend to push people away who get too close or, completely disconnected from them, I can go through bouts of low-grade depression where I don't want to return emails or calls. I don't even want to read them, and if I receive them they sit there unopened until I forget about them or too much time passes and it becomes embarrassing to respond.

Of course people can take it badly, and that is reasonable - it's something I am working on. I don't want to be the guy that warns people about his bad behavior in advance (like, if you know it's a problem, why not just stop doing it) since I think that is just giving myself an excuse to do it in the future. So it's complicated. A warning might help people to understand but it also makes it seem like I'm setting myself up to do it.

I've also lost touch with people who I really like because I don't feel like I have anything to tell them about myself or that what I'm doing is interesting, and I don't want to sound like a sad sack. If my life is in a rut currently, hearing about someone else's busy, exciting life and then feeling like I have to somehow have an equally interesting thing to say makes me want to avoid the exchange altogether.

It can be as simple as "how was your weekend?" I don't do a lot of things like some people do with their free time - I may be fine just watching TV, reading a book, playing a game on my computer. But when you are talking to people who have just gotten back from apple picking or pumpkin carving or hiking along the Pacific coast - and they do things like this regularly - it sounds lame (to me and to them). And I'm aware of this, so I tend to avoid the exchanges or have go-to brush off statements like "oh, many things, each more exciting than the last, so exciting I couldn't possibly describe them all, so I won't try." (while I think I'm being clever I'm sure some people think I'm being rude).

People who know me, know I hate questions like that. But very few people actually know me, or are willing to accommodate changes to their normal human interaction routines just for me. And again I don't want to be one of those exhausting people with a list of rules for interactions. So I tend to avoid them altogether.

All that is, of course, my personal experience. Maybe I'm unique, but I doubt it.

by Anonymousreply 202November 17, 2021 9:25 AM

[quote] I wouldn’t be surprised if your friend feels shame about getting older/fatter, her life seeming more out of control, her marriage maybe not being so happy, her house looking like crap

I would put good money on the chance that she is worried about her suburban Frau appearance

by Anonymousreply 203November 17, 2021 11:29 AM

Well, girlies, don’t want to sound like unwoke, but it seems in most cases, a fag hag from younger days is mainly for fun, not for life log serious relationship.

by Anonymousreply 204November 17, 2021 11:40 AM

If you want a female friend, better to find some lesbian, there is more chance she will take care of you, be there in your hour of need, feed you on holydays etc. Although not much talking about guys there. Straight fag hags tend to be unfaithful, not only to their fags, but their girlfriends too, once the right man comes along. Only some older divorcee would do.

by Anonymousreply 205November 17, 2021 11:48 AM

Get new friends OP. As someone who has been in a relationship for over 20 years I love doing things with single people. Couples can get so boring, especially the straight ones with kids. I have never understood the couples only thing. Maybe it's more of a hetero thing. Sure it's nice to know other gay couples because you have something in common but at the end of the day, if you click it's usually with just one in the couple more than the other. People come and go out of relationships as single and couples so I have never viewed it as a thing set in stone that defines a person.

As I said, maybe look at the friends you have. They sound very traditional and conservative. My circle of friends is very mixed from couples to singles, gay, straight, married, divorced, older, younger, broke artist and creatives, to stock brokers and rich house wives. Everyone seems to get along because everyone has a unique story. No one is trying to be a clone of someone else or fit into some weird perfect Stepford Wife stereotype.

by Anonymousreply 206November 17, 2021 12:26 PM

We had a neighbor who was a widower. He kept to himself mostly. a few years ago we decided to invite him to join us for Thanksgiving. He happily accepted and the three of us had a great time. He seemed frail and ate very slowly. Six months later he passed away from Pancreatic cancer. I am glad he didn't spend his last Thanksgiving alone. He was a gentle soul.

by Anonymousreply 207November 17, 2021 5:45 PM


I’m not crying. It’s just…dust got in my eye is all.

by Anonymousreply 208November 17, 2021 5:47 PM

That is so lovely R207. You and your partner likely have a sweet guardian angel now.

by Anonymousreply 209November 17, 2021 5:55 PM

-- No, this is MAyflower 3-6798.

-- I'm sorry, I must have dialed the wrong number.

-- Oh. . . . Does that mean you're not coming over for dinner on Sunday?

by Anonymousreply 210November 18, 2021 12:12 AM

R207, did he leave you anything? True story... my neighbours cared for a similar type of man for a few years. He lived next door to them. He also died of cancer. He left them his house. His $1.6M house.

by Anonymousreply 211November 18, 2021 12:14 AM


See, I have a similar take on friendships. I just enjoy a variety of people and keeping in touch. Not everything is about score keeping. But that said, I hate wasting my time and feeling foolish, investing and having nothing to show for it. That's become a theme.

It hurts a lot when after years of being valued, of long intimate chats amd easy laughter, suddenly you aren't invited to holidays, or texted. You give freely and then they still walk away.

I have a friend whose Bday was this weekend. We've been close for over 10 years but since the marriage and her move to the burbs with the hubby and kid, she's made less and less effort.

I left a singing voicemail wishing her well as a joke. No response. It's the kind of thing she used to appreciate and get a kick out of. :(

I have never been the person who is "too busy" to acknowledge a friend reaching out. I always hope to be the kind of friend that builds easy lifelong bonds. At gatherings I try to show up with a food item, stick around to help clean up and take photos throughout so they don't have to. I buy thoughtful gifts, avoid drama at all costs and am loyal. I show up at the hospital.

I've also tried to be cool and casual, not clingy, invite friends to exclusive parties and events.....be someone folks think they're lucky to know.

And yet I've had a good dozen of what I thought were rock solid friendships fade away without explanation from the other party, so I've realized I need to be my own friend.

I don't have someone I know will be there for me. I don't have a BFF. It's scary.

It all hurts, but I've done nothing to warrant the ghosting. I definitely care too much....and close friends know I've a lousy relationship with my family....so I've definitely wanted a few friends who I can be there for and who can be there for me.

....but everyone I thought was "forever" has eventually gone.

December drives that point home. Well, to hell with that.

I'm a good person, people are fickle and I've seen people even nicer than me overlooked and ignored. I really do think kindness is interpreted as a sign of weakness by some.

As soon as you stop wanting people and ignore them, they seem to want you right? How dumb is that.

Anyway, I don't want the Coca Cola company and Hallmark channel to be able to manipulate me into feeling worthless. I'm doing the best I can. You are too.

by Anonymousreply 212November 18, 2021 4:50 PM

A lot of what you write resonates with me R212. Very well said.

People are fickle. I would also be hurt if a friend didn't respond to a birthday message like that either.

We do the best we can.

by Anonymousreply 213November 18, 2021 5:17 PM

I had a very good friend of around 20 years suddenly ghost me - we would trade texts and voicemails and not always get back to each other right away, but he stoped responding. Because of our normal give and take it took me a bit to really realize he was pointedly not getting back to me, and I reached out to another mutual friend to see if he was ill. Long story short, I though it was something I had done, and sadly put the friendship aside.

About 3 or 4 years later we ran into each other at a party - I was cordial and figured I'd just give him space; but he sheepishly admitted to me he had gotten to a very low place in life and just ignored everyone for a long while, and that he felt very bad about it. Relieved it was nothing I had done, told him I was sorry he'd had a bad time of it and invited him to meet up for drinks at one of our old spots. It's been 5 or 6 years now, and our friendship is back exactly like it was before. So you never know.

by Anonymousreply 214November 18, 2021 10:24 PM


by Anonymousreply 215November 19, 2021 12:25 AM


I was the one who did the ghosting, but in a similar place as your friend. I later ran across the other person, who is very understanding and only wished me well with my issues.

by Anonymousreply 216November 19, 2021 1:01 AM


Thats so nice to hear. Glad he came out and acknowledged it....

....buuuut..."I was in a bad place" is bullshit. Where exactly was that? The dark side of the moon? People in bad places need their friends. Why reject people? Why freeze others out?

I just hate the "let me off the hook and don't ask me more questions" one sentence fix-all response. It's bullshit.

And honestly, I wonder if he'll vanish again on you.

Maybe he deals with anger by isolating....but here's the thing...I'm not a kid anymore desperate for a close circle of peeps. You drop me/ghost me/blow up at me and then poof....and then five years later say "look....it was what it was, anyway..." and nothing else? Expect me to dislike you even more.

Be an adult. Own how you probably hurt someone. Explain it. And then, and only then, might I allow myself to get back into a groove with you.

It's called resolving things. Sadly folks don't have the balls, respect or the insight into their behaviors to do it. And that pisses me off. They want to slide back into good times and make YOU into the judgmental grudge-holding bitch for saying " hold up...you ignored me when I reached out for like two years, even when I really needed you...and that's all the explanation I get!?"

I know it's about baby steps...but damn. I loved you. I was there. And then I was nothing to you. And now, I'm something again? I don't like this game.

But I am glad for you that you got your friend back LOL! I hope you're closer now for having overcome that mess. And hopefully you have clearer expectations regarding him so you won't be hurt or surprised again.

by Anonymousreply 217November 19, 2021 1:27 AM

Waving to R2, another single lesbian here, long time DL'er. I'd be your Thanksgiving date and then we can laugh about it after!

by Anonymousreply 218November 19, 2021 4:50 AM

R217 - we did talk about it at length over a dinner, but I wasn’t going to go into all that on here. I understand how you feel, and your take on the situation is certainly justified; but admittedly I’m more easy going than that — in large part as a reaction against how much of my family was growing up.

by Anonymousreply 219November 19, 2021 5:07 AM

R219 okay, thats good :) I'm glad they actually got into the nitty gritty a bit and opened up.

I'm more easy going now than ever, really in person it takes a lot for me to share my negative feelings without reserve....but on here I can vent my true feelings, call out the BS and not hold back LOL.

I have a....former friend right now who is seemingly trying to reestablish things with us but...of course he isn't addressing his last blow up......so there's a lot I'm not saying that I would like to.


by Anonymousreply 220November 19, 2021 5:26 AM

I’m in the middle of a mess right now - financially, health wise, elderly parent, possible legal trouble - just a stupid “stew” of overwhelming stuff. It will work out but I am really feeling underwater. I have a few friends that would totally hit me with the - well HOW did that happen WHY did that happen? Well you have to do blah blah blah - let me know when you have done that” - OR a I had a friend call me after I had unburdened a little and they had the nerve to call me back and say he had called an old mutual friend of ours to discuss me - because they were worried. The mutual friend will call in a few months” I was furious that he called the mutual friend. All of this just made matters worse. I can understand a person needing to go off the radar for a while.

by Anonymousreply 221November 19, 2021 5:56 AM

[quote] I have a friend whose Bday was this weekend. We've been close for over 10 years but since the marriage and her move to the burbs with the hubby and kid, she's made less and less effort. I left a singing voicemail wishing her well as a joke. No response.

R187 I feel your pain. I'v had this done to me a few times. As a gay man who had lots of female friends, they seem to do this A LOT. I learned my lesson, once they get pregnant, it's all over. They will pop out the kids, it will be all about that and only that for the next 20 years. But the friendship will end long before that as they move to a more "family friendly" neighborhood, only hang out with other couples with kids, etc.

I only have one female friend left who had a kid and made the effort to maintain the friendship to this day. Her daughter is now 16 and I am considered a part of her life. But I would say that's rare. I feel like most woman use gay men as a filler until Mr. Right comes along, then the gay friends are disposable without really making it final. But I am not bitter.😠

Oh and worst of all are the ones that almost ghost you until they have a fight with Mr. Right and they want to prove something to him and suddenly they want to see what you have been up to," hey, let's go out, what have you been up to"

by Anonymousreply 222November 19, 2021 7:29 AM

I always spend my Christmas at the Bath House. I'm never alone in the theater room watching porn.

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by Anonymousreply 223November 19, 2021 7:33 AM

That sounds so pathetic R223, I know you might be joking but I bet someone is actually doing that every year.

by Anonymousreply 224November 19, 2021 7:45 AM

[quote] But I would say that's rare. I feel like most woman use gay men as a filler until Mr. Right comes along, then the gay friends are disposable without really making it final. But I am not biting.

This is so true and I am not biting either after having been bit. I have one friend who couldn't be bothered all year while she locked down with her ex in her bubble and I was on my own. Now the ex has moved to the east coast, my friend is neurotic as ever, and she is trying to shoe horn me in place of her ex. She's also now in her late 30's and her sell by date is vastly approaching. She wants to make plans, but I've told her I don't book out months in advance per her preference b/c I don't know if I'll feel like hanging out 3 weeks from today. I also told her I am not a substitute for her ex. I have stated my boundaries. I wish I had invested my time trying to make a friends with a big group of gays vs. hot girls that became boring, unsupportive friends. Gays are disposable, but fuck them.

by Anonymousreply 225November 19, 2021 7:45 AM

[quote]I wish I had invested my time trying to make a friends with a big group of gays vs. hot girls that became boring, unsupportive friends.

What is the benefit of a gay man "investing" in "hot girls"? What is the pay-off? And are friends as income generating devices like 401k's?

Small fucking wonder that the friends seen as "hot" or attractive accessories forget some of you when their lives change substantially. Evidently you were no more to them than they were to you.

It's difficult enough to make real friends and stay in each other's hearts over years — it's natural that people change over time, and friends wander off on another path and disappear over time; but when you start with some fucked up basis of a hot straight girl as sidekick to an insecure gay, how do you expect two disasters to last over over time?

by Anonymousreply 226November 19, 2021 10:01 AM


You are on the money. I have had at least a dozen close female friends (of varying levels of "attractiveness") in my life who treated me like a valued part of their lives....until Mr Right showed up or the wedding day came. Then I was either ignored or told outright "we were never that close." And boy was I blindsided every time.

First they'd create a distance between us - late replies, no replies, "been busy" etc - and I would assume they were in the "obsessive excited early stages" of their relationship. That's fine. I get that. I'd wait it out a few weeks or months.

Then eventually I'd see her on social media with Mr Perfect attending this and that, realize I was just being ghosted and then I'd finally bite the bullet and ask "hey, its been a while....is everything ok?" This would trigger either a total denial ("omg yes, lets see each other soon!" but then no actual plans)......or anger.

Looking back, I've had at least 4 gals get really, REALLY ugly with me and stage a breakup of sorts, if you can believe it, saying "um we were never that close!" in this condescending way, or "I love my boyfriend....not you!" when I'd sadly try to meet them for coffee and suss out the cause of the tension, saying I loved our friendship and missed them.

....now I see it was them not being able to say "yeah you were fun and supportive and convenient back when I was lonely, and now that I've got my REAL life together, that's my priority." Because who would say that? It's shitty.....but its true. So they either deny it and hope I give up.....or blow up. Maybe its guilt.

All I know is since I started focusing on guys as friends - straight guys for some reason - they seem to value the escape the friendship offers from their GF. Sure, they still vanish for periods of time, but they never act as if the best version of themselves is meant solely for the GF. I think girls are brainwashed to feel they should give "their whole heart" to Mr Right and him alone...agree?

Is that why there are so many "find a fat single girl with cats this holiday!" jokes on here. Single girls only have love for you while they can't get laid?

by Anonymousreply 227November 19, 2021 2:09 PM

I shouldn't do it, but I have a hard time coming back from someone who cancels/reschedules/is busy all the time. I'll drop the rope and be like "well, OK, I tried." And 999 times out of 1000, I never hear from them again.

It happens so often, it's gotta be me. Right?

by Anonymousreply 228November 19, 2021 5:39 PM

OP...My advice is to plan your own holiday events. Surely you must know others who may be alone. Stop expecting others to provide your celebrations etc. You will find that if you host an event you will get invited to more.

by Anonymousreply 229November 19, 2021 5:48 PM

228 - I am a woman and I have about 3 women friends that I refuse to make plans with anymore. I am easy going and we all need to cancel a reschedule once in a while - but these friends (they are from different areas of my life) got almost insulting in their canceling and rescheduling. I joking made a rule that (this will date me) if my eye makeup is on and I’ve already set my hair on the hot rollers - it is WAY too late to cancel. I haven’t gotten together with any of them for years. There are just some really rude princessy women out there who are flakey with their women friends as their men friends. As soon as they didn’t need me to help them dissect every nuance of their latest romance they took off.

by Anonymousreply 230November 19, 2021 10:33 PM

This is why my little girl pekingese is, as Eminem said: the only lady I adore.

by Anonymousreply 231November 19, 2021 10:38 PM

I have a hetero, married woman friend who was out of touch with me during the spring / summer of 2020. I realized that she was probably enjoying being together with her husband (stay at home order time). The husband is the type to go out after work without her, etc.

When I contacted her, it would take a while to hear a response, but I didn't make a big deal out of it. However, when she contacted me, she would follow up pretty quickly with "Haven't heard back from you," etc.

Now, she's contacting me quite a bit, during her drive times, wait times (doctors' appointments). I realize she's just trying to fill up spaces in her life.

by Anonymousreply 232November 19, 2021 10:42 PM

This thread is making me think a lot about a gay best friend friend my mother had in her 20s when she lived in NY. She left at 30 and moved down south and married my father and had 2 kids. She didn’t mention this gay best friend much except he did come down to visit us for a weekend in the late 80s/early 90s. I remembered my father grumbling about AIDS before he came and cleaning the toilet seats after he left (idiot) but we all had a nice time from what I remember and my mother was thrilled to see him. When my older sister was a teenager my mother took her up to visit New York in the late 90s and they met up with the gay former best friend to take him out to dinner - he picked a restaurant in the heart of Chelsea (east of eighth for those in NY) and proceeded to get very drunk and talk about all the sex he had before AIDS became a thing. My sister was scandalized and loved it. My mother was mildly amused but also irritated.

When I moved to NY at 19, I met up with him once. I remember we went to some shitty deli and I had to pay for the Gatorade I bought and I remember thinking damn, he’s making his friend’s kid pay for $2.50 drink. The whole thing was awkward and we didn’t see each other again.

My mother and I googled him last year and it turned out he died in 2006. She had no idea and didn’t seem that upset by it.

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story is that fraus move on. Like everyone is saying, once they marry and have children, that becomes their world and the gay best friend gets left behind.

This is probably changing now that so many gays are having children though.

by Anonymousreply 233November 19, 2021 11:05 PM

That’s a nice story, r233, in spite of the somewhat sad ending.

And don’t be too hard on Pops for cleaning the toilet seats. Depending on when this was, in the very beginning we didn’t know what caused it, how you contracted it, or anything about it. All we knew is it mostly afflicted gay men and there was some (believe it or not) speculation that toilet seats may have something to do with it.

by Anonymousreply 234November 19, 2021 11:12 PM

I think the benefit of having hot female friends is that if there is a legitimate friendship, it opens a lot of doors both metaphorically and physically. A hot guy and a hot girl can get into any club with a rope policy and I've found that we were always able to find those bi-curious guys that we would both play with and then I would take him home. In return, I listened to her problems and tried to be supportive. Friendships are investments - an investment of time and emotion.

by Anonymousreply 235November 20, 2021 6:03 AM

R232, I have a straight male friend who does the same thing, driving someplace or waiting, and he calls me up to pass the time. I tell him: Thanks for using me, and not giving me a reach around.

by Anonymousreply 236November 20, 2021 8:25 AM

I liked R233's story, a study in how people and how friendships change.

For those who insist that people don't change, I suspect that that is true — for them. And those who insist that people do change, I suspect that is indeed true —for them. Few people shed their skins entirely, but people do change, significantly, while others remain fundamentally at 68 as they were when 12 or 18 or 38.

My favorite friends are those I could lose track of for twenty years then run into in a subway in some strange city — and we could pick up as we had before, filling in the blanks where it made sense. We would be curious about what happened in that time in between, but an uninterrupted period of feeding and nurturing and score-keeping equilateral exchange isn't necessary. I've had friendships like that where we felt omfortable with one another years on after losing contact, yet we didn't really reconnect at the level we had before; likewise I've become closer friends with people after a long absence form each other's lives.

The things that make us friends at one point in life, like R233's mother and her gay friend, don't always hold up across time and distance and separation. The truth is they may not have held up had the two people lived a block away all that time.

Holidays and invitations to holiday events are their own animal, it seems. Sometimes you can plot a great holiday shared with friends, other times the sharing is limited to a few hours. Some of the best holidays I have spent with people who were neither very close friends nor family were with people who made a big, easy (seeming) event and somehow facilitated a kind of magical thing; they were people who gave an invitation in a moment, without plotting, vetting the idea, laying out a lot of details; they were just people who lived having a big dinner or a big party (or sometimes small) and extended a very genuine invitation without encumberances.

The half-friends who made a big fuss about my lack of plans as their reason for inviting me somewhere...those invitations I learned very early on to dodge.

by Anonymousreply 237November 20, 2021 2:45 PM

Rich friends, hot friends. Does it ever really trickle down to you? Will a rich friend ever lend or give you money (when you need it)? Will a hot friend ever introduce you to another hot person (for you to realistically date, etc.)? Probably not, IME.

I'd rather choose my friends based on other criteria.

by Anonymousreply 238November 20, 2021 7:14 PM

Rich friends will never give you money, they "dont want to ruin the friendship" hot friends want to remain the hottest friend in the room. They dont have time to worry about setting you up with someone else because you are not hot and therefore you should just settle for whatever you can get in the first place.

by Anonymousreply 239November 21, 2021 11:45 AM

You "get shot down", OMFG. Sounds horrible, OP. You're surrounded by wretched cunts like the rest of us.

by Anonymousreply 240November 21, 2021 11:47 AM

This song "Old Friend" was written for this thread.

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by Anonymousreply 241November 21, 2021 1:56 PM

I find this hard to argue with. I have seen a lot of "friends" come and go. I have three friends of about twenty years. One is utterly useless because he's basically Asperger's. We mostly hang around as each other's default setting as we are both perpetually single.

I wish I had coupled up (though only successfully, not for the sake of it or settling to the extent you're a doormat.) It is really is a couples' world. I lost most of my straight friends to being single, being gay and the cycle of raising a family. It is hard to sustain on a meaningful basis. And to be fair, raising a family and working is a very time consuming and tiring job. If more parents were like Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO. it wouldn't be such a problem, but none of my friends were.

I know there are some gangs of gay friends but I find couples are most common.

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by Anonymousreply 242November 21, 2021 2:03 PM

[quote] If more parents were like Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO. it wouldn't be such a problem, but none of my friends were.


by Anonymousreply 243November 21, 2021 2:22 PM

R242 What a bunch of bullshit, Mary. I only know one gay guy who has had the same boyfriend for almost twenty years. My best friend Jennifer is married for twenty years. Everyone else I have ever known are single and no one thinks it is a bad thing at all.

by Anonymousreply 244November 21, 2021 2:41 PM

Introvert, here. I have no friends. However, I happen to be the ghoster. Did it after high school, college and my previous job of 15 years. I refused to join Facebook back when it was new and everyone was doing it because I'm not the type to reminisce about the glory days. I have never been to, or participated, in any kind of reunion. Even in college, I used to drift from friends once they got serious with their boyfriends and girlfriends. Yes, I've burned a lot of bridges, but the thought of attending some frau's kids birthday is to excruciating for me to contemplate.

by Anonymousreply 245November 21, 2021 2:42 PM

[quote] I'm not the type to reminisce about the glory days.

I do.

Oh, I misheard you. I thought you said glory HOLE days.

Never mind.

by Anonymousreply 246November 21, 2021 2:51 PM

[quote] is to excruciating

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 247November 21, 2021 2:52 PM

I have the urge to couple up occasionally as well, however, if you’re with the wrong person forget it. I can’t couple up just for the sake of having another body around. That would be worse for me than being alone.

None of these fraus are any happier because they have their awful husbands and screaming brats. Okay maybe a few of them are - but on the whole, they are just distracted. And distracted does not equal fulfillment or happiness. Especially as the brats get older and the relationship with the husband gets more fucked up as the years pass. Once you start living your life for other people - resentment can start to build and it becomes a real mindfuck.

I complain about my frau friends moving on but the reality is that I wouldn’t want to sit and listen to them talk about their children and husbands. That would drive me crazy. And they should have friends that want to hear about that shit because having young children is all consuming and difficult. So it’s likely for the best and if we connect again later, so be it, if not - that’s life.

by Anonymousreply 248November 21, 2021 3:12 PM

Well, R244, thank you for that unnecessarily harsh window into what would appear to be the unstable lives of you and the people you call friends. My experience is quite different and, given your fuse, perhaps of little surprise.

by Anonymousreply 249November 21, 2021 3:49 PM

[quote] having young children is all consuming and difficult

I don't have children, but I don't think this is true. It depends on the woman / person. Some women make it "all-consuming" when it doesn't always need to be that way.

by Anonymousreply 250November 21, 2021 9:57 PM

^rolls eyes.

by Anonymousreply 251November 21, 2021 10:00 PM

Just stop, r250.

by Anonymousreply 252November 24, 2021 10:17 AM

The song at r241 exemplifies straight woman-gay man friendships. The women only need us to fill the emptiness left by their romantic relationships.

by Anonymousreply 253November 24, 2021 10:21 AM

Let them go.

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by Anonymousreply 254November 24, 2021 5:04 PM

Oh, the tremolo!

by Anonymousreply 255November 24, 2021 5:18 PM

Great article thank you R254.

by Anonymousreply 256November 24, 2021 5:40 PM

It's really disheartening to see how many people see friendships in transactional terms.

by Anonymousreply 257November 25, 2021 2:23 AM

Now would be a good time for the invited and uninvited to update us. Post! I'm spending the holidays alone and need entertainment.

by Anonymousreply 258November 25, 2021 10:31 AM

No- whether I enjoy myself or not is up to me.

by Anonymousreply 259November 25, 2021 10:41 AM

[quote]It's really disheartening to see how many people see friendships in transactional terms.

Agreed. Close scorekeeping doesn't seem the best way of making or keeping friends. For adults it should be clear when someone is purely a "friend" of convenience or fair weather or to take advantage — and those things can be okay if you're not deceived by them— but what kind of friends are some people describing? Not friends I would ever have counted as such.

I can't rely on each of my friends equally at all the tests that posters in DL love laying out. I have friends who are absolutely not the first to say "drinks are on me tonight" or dinner; I have no expectation that it will ever happen, and no more worry about either. They are friends for other reasons than keeping a close eye on dividing up bills equally. Different people have different things to give, and different styles of being friends.

FFS, if you have a friend who has —for fucking years?— turned cool and ignored or rebuffed you, and responded with vague "Let's get together for lunch sometime, maybe [months distant] in the spring, after the holidays" that person is teling you something. It's time to relax your invitations and send only the rare and out of the blue "thinking of you" message to give them a reason to respnd if they are inclined. You have to think about what you actually thought of them when they were a part of your life, and try to guess the same of them. Two needy people leaning on each other isn't always the stuff of a lifetime friendship.

by Anonymousreply 260November 25, 2021 11:13 AM

I don’t have any friends, never have. But it’s not because I’m a single gay man.

by Anonymousreply 261November 25, 2021 11:21 AM

Exactly r260. I have a childhood friend who's battled the bottle for a while. I stay his friend not because I expect something in return. Matter of fact, I expect absolutely nothing from him at all. He's someone I've known all my life and I'm gratified when I see him making progress.

by Anonymousreply 262November 25, 2021 12:57 PM

Awww the saints have arrived. How evolved for you to expect nothing from your friends. If I had tiny friendship medals I would award them to you. It must be so disheartening indeed for you to have to read anything from us garbage people about hurt feelings or disappointment. If only we could be adults like you.

Also, the drunk childhood friend is different from the frau who used you as a boyfriend when she was single and then dropped out of sight after she got married and had kids. But how needy and transactional for us to even discuss that dynamic. Shame on me!


by Anonymousreply 263November 25, 2021 1:25 PM

If it's about what you can do for each other r263, then they're not friends. So you have no one who just loves you for you.

by Anonymousreply 264November 26, 2021 3:33 AM

Occasionally reaching out to a friend is not “something someone can do for you.”

What kind of standards do you martyrs have? No one on this thread has been talking about wanting friends to buy them shit or take them on trips or throw them celebrations or introduce them to people - posters are talking about keeping open basic lines of communication. Checking in occasionally. Showing some minor level of interest in your life. Inviting you to a holiday party they are throwing if you’ve been friends for years.

If you consider those basic acts of kindness “transactional” then yes - sure - I’m transactional.

If your friends do absolutely nothing for you - don’t even reach out once every six months - then they don’t “love you for you.” So justify that behavior however you want, tell us you’re not needy and you don’t expect anything, etc etc etc.

I’m not buying it. And before you start - yes, I have friends.

by Anonymousreply 265November 26, 2021 4:04 AM

After an initial reluctance to accept a dear friend's invitation to come to their house in the burbs for dinner she talked me into it. She was once my closest friend and I have been with her through all her husbands. LOL! But we hadn't reconnected in quite a while - the pandemic reconnected us and now we once again see each other regularly and communicate all the time. She has always been such a kind and giving person and I hadn't realized how much I missed her in my life. We always had great fun together and that's great to revive.

I hadn't met her 3rd husband. So, I got to meet him and get reintroduced to one of her now adult children and her husband and toddler. I am so happy I went because it was just a lovely afternoon and evening and I really got to know her husband and family. And spend some time with the dog (I miss my dog boo hoo).

AND maybe most important I came home with tons of leftovers for days. I've already made a turkey sandwich. How do you beat that?

It's easy to get stuck in comfortable withdrawal especially with the pandemic and one's personal situations. That's always been my issue. But sometimes it works to just reconnect.

Hugs to everyone just trying to get through. Don't beat yourself up over your choices.

by Anonymousreply 266November 26, 2021 8:00 PM

So why did you lose contact in the first place?

by Anonymousreply 267November 27, 2021 2:54 AM

I guess you mean me, R267. We both had very busy jobs and lives. I worked almost every day or part of them. When she started a job near my work place we'd try to get together for lunch now and then. But I had a crazy and unpredictable work life and we just drifted apart. Sounds so dramatic but it was just life. Every once in a while, someone I knew would tell me they met or ran into my friend and somehow my name would come up and I'd learn she'd ask after me. Always meant to call as I'm sure she did. Finally, she got laid off IIRC after the pandemic started - probably just an excuse to get rid of the highest paid and older employees - she was a lobbyist. So, she had time and emailed me and we immediately reconnected and she has been spending her huge severance taking me to lunch every other week. LOL!

She has made me feel so guilty cause she has been so active during the pandemic unlike me. She always kept her nursing license active and she was volunteering to administer vaccines and helping to train puppies for PTSD service for veterans. Plus, adult kids who always need their mother for help or money. Me- I 've been watching Battlestar Galactica and making cupcakes. I hang my head in shame.

by Anonymousreply 268November 27, 2021 5:51 AM

[quote]Yes, I've burned a lot of bridges, but the thought of attending some frau's kids birthday is to excruciating for me to contemplate.

Let me just say, I have done it and you are not missing anything. It's awkward and boring at the same time. I only do it to remain friends with the parent. Although I will say, once the kids get to a reasonable talking age where they can hold an adult conversation then it's kind of cool.

I think some of us are better at the goo, goo, ga, ga baby thing and some of us are better at influencing the young when they are just starting to form opinions of the world. The the crazy uncle or aunt that lives outside the norm of hetero suburbia.

by Anonymousreply 269November 27, 2021 9:08 AM

[quote] It's easy to get stuck in comfortable withdrawal especially with the pandemic and one's personal situations. That's always been my issue. But sometimes it works to just reconnect. Hugs to everyone just trying to get through. Don't beat yourself up over your choices.

Dont feel bad, I think everyone dealt with the Pandemic in different ways. I basically hunkered down long term with my other half, only seen maybe 20% of my normal social group up to now. Then I have one friend who is a young woman, pediatrician, married, 2 kids, adopted a 3rd, and still found time to get involved politically writhing hundreds of letters to senators to stop Trump's shit while he was still in office. I don't know where she gets that energy.

by Anonymousreply 270November 27, 2021 9:14 AM

R269 Yes, because there's nothing kids want more than to emulate some old syphilitic washed up neurotic queen who thrived during the 20s. The 1920s. Fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 271November 27, 2021 2:56 PM

Wow. Take it easy frau, r271.

by Anonymousreply 272November 27, 2021 3:12 PM

Frau R271 is officially TRIGGERED!

Hate to burst your bubble, but giving birth is not a Miracles, it's a biological function that happens every day to billions of people around the world. Like taking a dump.

by Anonymousreply 273November 28, 2021 2:35 AM

Only a man would equate being pregnant and giving birth to having a bowel movement.

Maybe your mom gave birth to shit but not mine.

by Anonymousreply 274November 28, 2021 3:13 AM

my thanksgiving was pretty depressing; glass of wine and a turkey sandwich.

I houset sat and fish sat and the cat made an appearance and then was gone

I'm hoping there are better times ahead.

by Anonymousreply 275November 28, 2021 3:23 AM

[quote]Maybe your mom gave birth to shit but not mine.

You mom probably crapped and pissed during the process, you are a lying Frau if you think it's all that clean.

by Anonymousreply 276November 28, 2021 3:43 AM

[quote]I houset sat and fish sat and the cat made an appearance and then was gone

At least fish are nice to look at. Not going to start some political argument over the dinner table.

by Anonymousreply 277November 28, 2021 3:45 AM

Keeping this thread on watch to wait for gays holiday updates. Who was invited but sat at the kids' table? And why would you be friends with such people? I'm fascinated by this topic.

by Anonymousreply 278November 28, 2021 11:48 AM

"And why would you be friends with such people?"

When you reach a certain age longtime friends become like relatives: you're sort of stuck with them, for better or worse.

And remember, that's precisely why they invite YOU to Thanksgiving dinner, whether they really want to or not.

by Anonymousreply 279November 28, 2021 12:21 PM

What fun, R279.

by Anonymousreply 280November 28, 2021 12:42 PM

We were just cut out of a friend circle that was fairly transactional, but I guess I was willingly turning a blind eye to that element just so that we had the occasional invitation. There was a business transaction involving the Queen Bee and me, and I ended up firing her company from a job, and so she put out the word we were no longer welcome, etc.

It hurt for a moment, only in the sense of losing out on invites, but as my wiser spouse noted, we feel no pain over this. These people, while perfectly nice, were only in it for how they can exchange with each other. The relationships weren't and aren't real. Some photos popped up on Facebook of their Thanksgiving friendapalooza, and it looked fake as fuck, and it relieved me that this year we didn't split our time between making an appearance there and spending the night with close friends having a lovely dinner, better spirits, and actually talking about life and current events without worry that there was some social faux pas happening because you shouldn't discuss money or politics in polite company.

TL:dr: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and sometimes you are better off alone than with acquaintances who don't actually care about you

by Anonymousreply 281November 28, 2021 2:50 PM

^ You gave them the satisfaction of dumping you. I never let it come to that. I'm always the one who moves on.

by Anonymousreply 282November 29, 2021 2:52 AM

Fraus are having multiple orgasms at this thread as they see all these pathetic needy gays yearning for their company. *sigh* We used to be the cool ones.

by Anonymousreply 283November 29, 2021 4:08 AM

I dont know, I would rather sit at home eating a dry turkey sandwich than attend another Frau Holiday Special.

by Anonymousreply 284November 29, 2021 4:15 AM

[quote] ^ You gave them the satisfaction of dumping you. I never let it come to that. I'm always the one who moves on.

If there is a grenade on the ground and it's either up to you or the other person to grab it, always be the one to chuck it first.

by Anonymousreply 285November 29, 2021 7:31 AM

Or, R285, walk away and go about your business, completely unconcerned with the explosion down the hall.

"Explosion? What explosion? I didn't hear anything."

If a tree falls in a forest you wouldn't be caught dead in, does it make a noise?

by Anonymousreply 286November 29, 2021 9:01 AM

Dry turkey sandwich? Good heavens put some cranberry sauce and/or gravy on it. Even moist stuffing will moisten it - yes bread upon bread.

If you have none of those then what do you think mayo is for?

Bon apetit!

by Anonymousreply 287November 29, 2021 4:17 PM

^^You’re adorable!

I like you.

by Anonymousreply 288November 29, 2021 4:20 PM

R283 Nope. Most people with a tiny functioning brain can see that 90% of postings on here are troll postings. They in no way reflect reality.

by Anonymousreply 289November 29, 2021 4:25 PM

[quote] When you reach a certain age longtime friends become like relatives: you're sort of stuck with them, for better or worse. And remember, that's precisely why they invite YOU to Thanksgiving dinner, whether they really want to or not.

I recently parted ways with a decades-long friend who had changed for the worst, IMO. Started going to an evangelical church, got a dog that looks like a pit bull mix to me. Dog ended up biting neighbor, who reported the bite to police. Friend's partner ended up in court over the dog bite, and then I had to hear about how it's all so unfair.

This friend does invite me to holiday stuff, but I can't take being friends anymore.

by Anonymousreply 290November 29, 2021 5:37 PM
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