Netflix Movie "Passing"

Weirdly Ruth Negga appears less white in this than she did on Preacher (where I had no idea she identified as African American). I enjoyed it.

Neither of them pass, the film is stupid.

It's more fun if you imagine that Clare is being played by Faye Resnick.

CBS Sunday Morning made a huge deal out of it, (of course). They went on and on like it’s the new Gone With the Wind. The actresses seemed kind of schmaltzy, affected, bordering on camp. The subject matter is black so of course CBS and CNN will shill the fuck out of it until the entire Academy agrees to give it Oscars.

They reminded me of transgender women, whispering to each other, "No one knows."

When, in reality, 99% of the room clocked you the second you walked in the room. And the remaining 1% clocked you the second you opened your mouth to speak.

I feel like the movie was filmed in black and white partially to try and disguise the fact these actresses can't pass for white whatsoever.

R6 I had the same thought.

It made it easier to up the brightness to wash out their faces.

But they still wouldn't look white -- even from a speeding car.

The scene in the hotel suite with the racist husband was ridiculous, as if he wouldn't immediately know.

Jennifer Beals, Mariah Carey, Zendaya, Rashida Jones, Meghan Markle, Sydney Meyer, Troian Bellisario, and Maya Rudolph are all women of color who I could buy trying to pass as white. I just can't buy it for the actresses in this movie. I'm sure it's good other than the unusual casting choices, though.

The irony about the choice of black & white film is the color of the actresses' skin is the one feature that could convincingly make them appear Caucasian.

I like the idea but yeah neither of these women could pass.

Tessa Thompson impressed me but I thought it was ridiculous that the Skarsgard character couldn’t tell she was black. Her skin tone was on the light side but her facial features were absolutely Black. And Ruth Negga plays her character like an elaborate screen test for a woke remake of A Streetcar Named Desire.

I wanted to watch this until I found out it was shot with a digital camera and not on film.

They go to the trouble of framing it in 1.33:1 and using black and white, but couldn’t use film for god’s sake?

What a shame. It was a fantastic book.

The dialogue and acting were often very amateurish.

It would have worked better as a play. From the back row.

SPOILER!!!

I found the final scene ridiculous. A light tap on someone's stomach is not going to send her hurtling several feet over metal railings, much less stone balustrades.

I agree, R15, it was very poorly staged and shot.

I read the book, and though it was certainly an important one for what it was saying at the time it was saying it, I thought it was pretty shitty. Melodramatic, trying too hard. There is no way to film the ending of the book without it being hammy so I give a pass on the directors for that.

This story is so American, so deeply uniquely and important to our culture in a way only passing mixed Americans could truly understand. I wish a black or mixed American had made it. It's so powerful.

I truly feel Rebecca Hall is using this as a vehicle to make her flagging career work, using her newly important heritage and the woke wave, rather than tell a very important story about race and women.

[quote] And, I'm sorry, but these women would never "pass" as white.

Exactly. It made the whole thing absurd.

R18 Interestingly enough, Rebecca Hall is mixed; though she does identify as white.

R20, her great grandfather was Black, I think.

I was curious so did a quick read through some of the major reviews (which were all raves) but only one (I think it was for NPR) mentioned the fact that the 2 actresses don't really pass for white, and this was from a female reviewer who was of light-skinned mixed race.

I just find it so odd that the reviews, raves or not, don't talk about this issue and why the choice might have been made and how it impacts the 2021 story-telling. It strikes me that the reviewers were afraid to bring this up.

Reviewers now are basically an in club who all have to like the same (woke) things. They are about as good a judges on films as a lesbian on blowjobs.

[quote] I feel like the movie was filmed in black and white partially to try and disguise the fact these actresses can't pass for white whatsoever.

I loved the movie. The two lead performances were very strong. It was based on a 1920s book and the movie had vintage ambience, and the lead female actors gave highly mannered performances like mid-century Hollywood starlets. Director and both actors deserve Oscar noms.

The female actors were chosen so that the film's audience would know and recognize them as "Black." Traditionally, white actors have played blacks passing as white -- Jeanne Crain, Susan Kohner, Liz Taylor, Yvonne De Carlo, etc. I think it is a more visceral assault on race to have this woman who we recognize as Black passing as white. Certainly moreso than having mixed race actors who actually, inadvertently, "pass" like a Rashida Jones or a Jennifer Beals.

Great choices by director and casting.

[quote]Certainly moreso than having mixed race actors who actually, inadvertently, "pass" like a Rashida Jones or a Jennifer Beals.

That's a rather silly remark, as only mixed-race people *can* pass as white.

The idea that those two women in the movie could pass was foolish.

Rebecca Hall is not mixed race. I’m sorry. I don’t care what black person may have been a part of her heritage, ain’t no way in hell anyone would look at that bitch and think she anything other than white

R24 Gets it.

[quote] That's a rather silly remark, as only mixed-race people *can* pass as white. The idea that those two women in the movie could pass was foolish.

If so, your response is sillier.

In the Broadway musical Ragtime Brian Stokes Mitchell played Coalhouse Walker, a Black man persecuted because of his race. However Mitchell could easily “pass” for white and so the impact of the story was seriously blunted for me. The controversial theater critic John Simon was the only one who pointed out this awful piece of miscasting.

Although Tessa Thompson gives an excellent performance there’s no fucking way she could ever “pass” as white. So she’s an awful piece of miscasting, too, albeit for another reason than Mitchell’s.

There was a whole other layer to how Tessa's character treated her maid. She did not treat her poorly, but as the darkest skinned woman in the group, it was obvious that she could never aspire to more than being the maid. There was an unspoken privilege that Tessa's character was able to use by basis of her being lighter skinned.

I really enjoyed it.

The director claimed she’d never heard of passing until she read the book. Never saw Imitation of Life?

I read the book as an undergrad (it was a double feature with Quicksand, the main story, though I liked Passing far more). I really liked the movie, especially Tessa’s performance. You just have to suspend your disbelief regarding their skin tone, just like with Jaye Davidson’s gender in Crying Game. With that, not knowing ahead of time, I was like c’mon, this is obvious. Same with The Sixth Sense, I thought the “twist” was ridiculously obvious.

I loved how the ending is open to interpretation. I thought it was clearly established that Irene pushed Claire. My mother thought Bellew did. I thought it was possible that Irene reached to shield her & Claire jumped of her own accord. I rewound it like 4 times & it’s very ambiguous, though I’m sticking to my original theory, especially when you take Irene’s (delayed) reaction to the fall.

R24 You are fucking deluded. THEY LOOK BLACK.

Why didn't they use colored film?

R34 Because then the casting would have been even stupider and more obvious.....why do they never cast trans women as trans women?

R29 I wasn't familiar with Brian Stokes Mitchell by name alone so I had to Google him. It really depends on the picture whether or not he looks black. In some he looked totally dark, in others he looked almost like a white man. What a strange phenomenon. I wonder if it depends whether or not he's out in the sun?

I used to see BSM on trapper John, MD in the early ‘80s, & even at age 10 knew he was a light-skinned black man. I guess that’s what’s imprinted on me; I can’t imagine ever seeing him & thinking he’d pass for white.

Brian Stokes Mitchell passes as white (Hispanic) in Kiss of the Spiderwoman

[quote] Brian Stokes Mitchell passes as white (Hispanic) in Kiss of the Spiderwoman

It was colorblind casting. Vanessa Williams starred in that version of "Spiderwoman" and she was playing a latin character too.

Why this movie and why now. The media industrial complex sure wants to keep us suffering through this race bullshit 24/7. Even though there’s only one human race.

[quote] identified as African American

Ruth Negga grew up in Ireland, so I doubt she identifies as anything American.

Add Halle Berry, r8

[quote]Traditionally, white actors have played blacks passing as white -- Jeanne Crain, Susan Kohner, Liz Taylor, Yvonne De Carlo, etc.

See above (Queen)

There’s suspension of disbelief needed at times (Skarsgarsd not clocking them) so fucking what? Negga was made up very provocatively and it makes the viewer ask eerie questions.

but would they have hired darker skinned blacks for the roles r39?

To all the people who keep saying the actresses don't actually look white, Rebecca Hall did that intentionally. She said that the reason the Alexander Skarsgard character (and by extension white people) doesn't see that the two women are Black isn't because he's stupid or blind; it's because he has all the power and it's his world, so he gets to see whatever he wants to see. But we as the audience are always seeing them as Black (the intention isn't for them to be passing with US the audience) and we're always afraid for them. It's about context. It's obviously too complex for some of the people on this message board. Go to YouTube and see the cast interview they did for Film Independent.

[quote] it's because he has all the power and it's his world, so he gets to see whatever he wants to see.

That sounds like an after the fact justification after she realised she screwed up something very important. You can’t tell me that someone other than him wouldn’t have noticed? Passing didn’t work just because some white man decided you were white. You had to actually pass, which contributed to colorism in the black community. Being actually able to physically pass was an important part of the issue and it robs the story of something that is at the heart of the story. It would be like doing a movie about closeted gay men passing as straight and then casting two queens that would make Paul Lynde seem butch. It is just distracting and takes away from the story.

r46 "It would be like doing a movie about closeted gay men passing as straight and then casting two queens that would make Paul Lynde seem butch. It is just distracting and takes away from the story."

But they already did this. It was called "Brokeback Mountain".

I still can't believe Ruth Negga didn't change her name when she became an actress.

I know! Ruth is such a dowdy name for such an attractive woman.

I gave it 40 minutes based on the Rotten Tomatoes review and had to turn it off. Just an awful movie. I’m afraid my usual go-to source for movie reviews is becoming “woke.”

Seriously, R46, don't be stupid. She didn't "screw up" anything. And PLENTY of effeminate gay men passed for straight back in the day because they lived in a world where no one would come right out and confront them about being gay or even think it possible of a powerful white man. Liberace fooled a great many people, didn't he? He won a court case when one publication suggested he might be gay. How did he do it? Because white people saw what they wanted to see. Ever heard of Lindsay Graham? The man went through the military and a political career and no one publicly ever asked the question. Imagine if it was the 1950s when white men in power would never be challenged (see J.Edgar Hoover). This is the point of Passing. White people believe, in their insular entitled world, that everything is as they want it to be.

[quote] To all the people who keep saying the actresses don't actually look white, Rebecca Hall did that intentionally. She said that the reason the Alexander Skarsgard character (and by extension white people) doesn't see that the two women are Black isn't because he's stupid or blind; it's because he has all the power and it's his world, so he gets to see whatever he wants to see.

She could've just said straight, white, male privilege. That's what made, and still makes, so many guys blind to other non-straight, non-white, non-male, people and their attributes, their talents, their pain, and their struggles.

R26, how old are you? Back when the one drop rule for Black people was really in effect, Hall would be precisely the type of person who would have passed. That's what passing is.

R45 Bwahaha stupidest thing I have ever read.

I haven't seen it yet but I heard from the director that it wasn't important that black people thought they couldn't pass but it was white people that bought it. Are those that have seen it and claimed they couldn't pass, white people?

Honestly, you can easily guess someone’s ethnicity by looking at their facial features alone. Even when looking at white people, I can tell easily see if someone has German, British, Scandinavian, Slavic, French or Mediterranean ancestry.

Roots (1977) was better than this

[quote] That sounds like an after the fact justification after she realised she screwed up something very important. You can’t tell me that someone other than him wouldn’t have noticed? Passing didn’t work just because some white man decided you were white.

"After the fact justification"?! How idiotic!

The photo at the link is the director's mother. Now many of you Marys will claim that you could clock her as "Black." However, the REALITY is she has passed for her entire professional life. Passing is about being inconspicuous as "Black" in 'white' spaces. The "white" director knows more about passing than any of you. Well...maybe not some of you.

Larsen's ending is deliberately ambiguous, so it's hopeless to try and film it.

Neither actress in Hall's movie version could have passed in Chicago in the 1920s.

[quote] Neither actress in Hall's movie version could have passed in Chicago in the 1920s.

Pfft...only because you would have sent a poison pen letter to the Chicago Tribune outing them.

BTW, congratulations on your 138th birhday.

R56 It isn't so easy for someone like me. I am mixed (half black and half white) but people think I'm either Middle Eastern or Latino 99% of the time judging by appearance alone.

[Quote]She said that the reason the Alexander Skarsgard character (and by extension white people) doesn't see that the two women are Black isn't because he's stupid or blind; it's because he has all the power and it's his world, so he gets to see whatever he wants to see.

I can understand the idea of certain whites perceiving race differently than blacks. When Flashdance came out, many white people thought Jennifer Beals was white, but I knew she was a "light-skinned black," since my neighborhood had many such people of her complexion and facial features. In my upbringing, that was how I was taught to see and categorize someone like her.

I also thought the ending was very ambiguous. Ruth Negga is so interesting looking. She totally looks like she is someone from that time period. I was looking at pictures of her and she actually looked more white in a lot of the pictures of her with dark hair. I think she could pass as non black. She might have worked better as the other character, and have someone who really looked white play her character. I do understand the blond hair though, the guys were hypnotized by it.

I was also wondering if maybe the other white characters would see these woman as white because of their skin tone. Maybe people weren't as familiar with different features then, and would have seen the skin tone and just assumed these women were Southern European or something.

Shouldn't have dyed her eyebrows... she looks crazy.

R58 She passed better than either of the two actresses in this film. Her African ancestry came from her father who was himself of mixed origins. As mixed marriages and relationships have become more commonly accepted I have noticed that many times a mixed raced person's child can look more one or another than their parent. I have a cousin, white, who married a black man. Their children are of the Jennifer Beals type, olive to tanned skin, hair that is curly but not kinky. One of daughters just had a baby with a white boy and the child's African characteristics are much more pronounced than her mother's are. One of the sons is expecting a child with his black fiancé, I'm wondering if it is going to look straight up Irish. Thankfully, we don't live in a world where passing is still really required.

Jennifer Beals' coloring is perfect for passing, similar to Merle Oberon. There are "white" people who are naturally as dark or darker than she is, some in my family. And, all such a person would have to do is claim vague, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Gypsy, or Native American ancestry, and the white person would say, "yeah, ok, I see that."

Honestly, I didn't know Raina was black from watching agents of shield either. I thought she was Indian or southeast Asian or some kind of pacific islander.

But the director is the whitest person of color, I've ever seen.

R67 Even whiter than Halsey, who seems to be the "go-to" example of a white passing mixed person.

[quote] Jennifer Beals, Mariah Carey, Zendaya, Rashida Jones, Meghan Markle, Sydney Meyer, Troian Bellisario, and Maya Rudolph are all women of color who I could buy trying to pass as white. I just can't buy it for the actresses in this movie. I'm sure it's good other than the unusual casting choices, though.

I could see Beals, Bellisario, and Jones being able to pass as white. Speaking of Beals, I remember some story many years ago that when her career was starting, she tried to hide being biracial and black relatives outed her to some magazine. I can't remember if that was true or not.

r68, no Tori Kelly is, but they aren't trying to pass They just present as white and are open about their background.

Also Wentworth Miller to bring a boy in.

R71 Many people seem to be shocked about Pete Wentz, too.

R71 With him it totally depends on the grooming. How he wears his hair seems to change his race.

[quote] I could see Beals, Bellisario, and Jones being able to pass as white. Speaking of Beals, I remember some story many years ago that when her career was starting, she tried to hide being biracial and black relatives outed her to some magazine. I can't remember if that was true or not.

That is untrue. She has always been direct about her mixed heritage, as early as the pre-release promotion for "Flashdance."

Black folk, especially older ones could tell Jennifer Beals was at least mixed. Same with Mariah Carey. We knew about Vin Diesel too. The One-Drop rule was always exaggerated. White Americans did not live in the same homes as Black Americans, so they never were able to tell for sure who was passing for white. The only reason in the past was due to slave records and mixed people were part of the slave population. But once slavery ended, many mixed people walked off the plantations would call themselves white and go on their merry day. Funny enough, white people even would sometimes falsely accuse other white people who had no African blood of being secretly black. Black people were able to identify better who was part-Black.

There was a miniseries starring Halle Berry (with Raven-Symoné playing Halle's younger version) called Queen. About a white-passing biracial (mulatto) slave and the idea of Halle and Raven passing for white is hilariously inaccurate.

I think Negga could pass, maybe not as my-people-are-Nordic white, but some sort of European mix, maybe claiming Latina or something. I did know a girl in college who was blonde, blue-eyed, but with a Black mother, she passed whether or not she wanted to. She did have a full mouth and curly hair, but, boy, you wouldn't have clocked her. When I read the book, I pictured Clare being like her.

Tessa Thompson doesn't pass. She's beautiful, but her features, the eyes--all giveaways besides, of course, the skin color. She doesn't look ambiguous at all.

Ruth Negga looks like she could be Southeast Asian or Filipina. Also, she's half Ethiopian which is a completely different ancestry. African-Americans are of West and Central African descent.

Tessa looks like an average light-skinned Black girl. I would not even think of her as mixed at first.

With women these days, it's a bit harder to distinguish white from white passing because they tan themselves to a crisp so much that people can no longer tell the difference.

Actually I wasn't so consumed with the way they looked. For me it was a very layered tale about many things, against the basic framework of Racism. It was, in one way, about the absurdity you can escape it or avoid it. You had Clare who tried to literally escape into the White world, and the costs associated with that, Irene, who was pat of the Black Bourgeoise , the elite professionals who pretended in their insularity, that they were above it all. They lived in Harlem probably on Strivers Row, a stay at home mom, she had a housekeeper, was super volunteer in society, mingled with the White Intelligentsia and had a husband who was a doctor. Even though she was determined to shut out the unpleasant, ugly truths, by anesthetizing herself with laudanum, and spending he days, napping, she could not relieve her apprehensions. Her husband wanted to talk about Racism. Talk about lynchings, etc. and talked about wanting to escape by leaving the country altogether. He was angry. Claire's white husband hated Black people aggressively, and proudly bragged that Claire was even worse than him. In fact the movie was all about escaping. IMO. Because Claire wanted nothing more, after all this time, to rejoin Black society. She looked at Irene's life and wanted it. Wanted the freedom she believed Irene had. She insinuated herself into Irene's life, attaching herself. Irene was sure Claire and her own husband were starting an affair. Her young sons grew very fond of Claire. Irene is a nervous wreck, and it's as if Claire becomes this evil presence. She tells Irene, "I don't have your morality. I'm not safe." it almost drives Irene over the edge. I loved it. I loved the way it was filmed and how the story unfolded. And I thought the acting was superb. Yes it was mannered, and it had a once upon a time flavor to it, and it was subtle. It was a kind of fable, to me.

Fancy, connected rich girl directs a movie. Quelle surprise!

Hilarious. Neither of these cunts look white in this film. In any way. In any world do they pass.

R80, for me that was the point. That they couldn't pass. No matter where they found themselves they could not escape the racism, and we could see that even if they couldn't. Brian, the Doctor husband, who had the darkest complexion, recognized that there was no escape, in their present lives, so his solution was to just leave. Think about this. Claire was the most successful at passing. She was married to a white Man, and had him fooled. She even had a daughter. And she was unhappy and thought Irene had everything Claire longed for. Irene had a fine house, a husband who was in a highly respected profession, she had social position, etc, and was terrified enough to drug herself most days, insisting the horrors of racism not be discussed or acknowledged in he gilded existence. I thought the casting of Ruth Negga and Tessa Thompson was very deliberate. Of course there were actors who could have been more authentic, but that wasn't the point.

You are all missing the point of the movie, which is: did Irene’s husbear sleep with Claire?

The story would have had absolutely no tension or pathos if the actors had been white or white-passing, and the audience was able to lose it awareness that these were "Black" women. I don't understand the quibbling about whether the actors could in fact "pass."

R81 And yet, the entire point of the piece is that they can pass. Which they don't.

R83 Again, because that is entire fucking point of the fucking story.

[quote] You are all missing the point of the movie, which is: did Irene’s husbear sleep with Claire?

Possibly. I think it was moreso Irene's contempt that the Black men in her life were enchanted by Clare rather than being disgusted by her choices.

Saw Brian Stokes Mitchell in Tick Tick Boom and he still looks Italian or Hispanic and not Black in the slightest.

R54, It's sad that white people like you are so pig-ignorant and lacking in self-awareness when it comes to your racism. Movies like Passing are really for people like you to learn but you're too cement-headed and in denial for anything to reach you.

I agree that there are actresses who would be better choices. However the bar for passing in the US wasn’t as high as one may think. During time with no TV, limited photography, and even more limited travel, many White Americans has no idea what a Black person looked like, save for cartoons depicting them as extremely dark and as bumbling fools. The idea that a Black person would be very fair skinned as well as articulate and well groomed wasn’t something most people knew was possible, perhaps outside if big cities.

Maybe women who tried and pass would call themselves Spanish, Mexican or Persian. Nella Larsen (not sure if this film is based on her novel) has a scene where she describes White people using teeth shape to state someone was or wasn’t Black.

It is sort of odd that Hall chose two woman who people are doubting could really pass. (especially since the rap on so many "black" firsts (Halle Berry, Obama, Kamala are that they aren't really black. Just half black. (Seen this on twitter. It's like a movement of people not liking all the half black people being the "firsts")

(haven't seen the movie so don't know if they are really passing or not.)

I actually don’t find Ruth Negga attractive. She looks sickly and anaemic.

I haven't finished it but Negga is really good. I mean...you do have to suspend disbelief people. Jesus

I just finished watching it and I have some questions.

First, I wasn't at all effected on whether or not they could pass or not. Tessa's character wasn't passing physically she was mentally or socially. If that makes sense. Many mixed people depending on the day pass for convience all the time. One day she wanted to go into a hotel that was for whites and have tea. She positioned her hat so people didn't get direct looks at her. She enjoyed not feeling black for a day. Embracing the priviledge. That was what I got. No one said she was passing always. I know people that according to assocation can pass. But like when her character was in black company the lightbulb went off in Claire's husband's head finally.

The actress that played Claire would pass easier not in the make up and weird way they fixed her hair and tried to make her white. I thought it made her harder to pass than her natural look. So I can't testify if she was passsable or not. But I didn't dwell on it in the story.

One was physically trying to pass and the other was socially a white lady. Always proper and oblivious to problems in the community, trying to block them out. Medicating herself with boose. Avoiding what was starring her in the face.

Now what I didn't understand was why she tried to push her husband and Claire's friendship. Yet then when they were she started to resent it. Was there an affair or did she take her place socially, and that was what had her off-put. She was the white lady in the neighborhood, not lookwise but behavior wise and then the actual physically looking white lady usurped her socially. And she realized she couldn't pass anymore.

And did she kill her? What the hell for? To save her from having her family and image destroyed or because she thought she would have to become a permanent member of their black community and totally take her place and not just be a tourist as she currently was.

The ending was so shocking to me.

Imitation of Life did this first and better.

The 'passing' storyline in Douglas Sirk's "Imitation of Life" was absurd, but of its time. The best scene in "Passing" is Clare's icy almost cavalier disposition upon being exposed -- which made the ending more potent.

I read somewhere that the director deliberately chose black actresses who do NOT pass for some cockamamie pretentious post-modern reason and to piss off white cracker viewers because the women do not pass.

Makes sense to me.

Fucking Brits. I blame Nicholas Hytner for starting color blind casting with a black Mr. Snow in his production of Carousel in London.

The original IMITATION OF LIFE did it much better, and used an actual light skinned black woman as the daughter. (The wonderful Fredi Washington) She was perfect for it. For me, I couldn't get past the first 10 minutes of it. Annoyingly affected and Ruth Negga's wig made me crazy. You could see her dyed blond nappy hair in front. Couldn't they have done better than that?

Was Helen Morgan, who played Julie in one of the films of Showboat, actually mixed race? Ava Gardner sure wasn’t.

R98 They weren't because the studio got nervous about having an "actual" mixed race romance in their film. So they darkened up both of them. They used the makeup developed for Lena Horne to do Gardner, they also considered Judy Garland and Dinah Shore. If you watch "Till the Clouds Roll By" you can see Lena Horne, an actual black woman, play the role in technicolor and she is beautiful. Since it was a condensed version without the romantic plot I guess they felt safe including her.

I read a review saying there was lesbian attraction between Irene and Clare. I didn't see that.

[quote]. If you watch "Till the Clouds Roll By" you can see Lena Horne, an actual black woman, play the role in technicolor and she is beautiful.

She plays the role from Showboat in that?

(confused)

R101 The film is about the music of Jerome Kern.

Ah so there is a staging of Show Boat like a show within the film I see.

(never really heard of the film so I am lost. They probably don't address the gayness I'd guess.)

My first reaction was, like most of yours, that Helen Keller would have known both those women were black and on what planet could they even almost pass.

But then I thought about it and it seems the director purposely chose them because [italic]she wanted the White audience to have the same reaction a Black audience would have to two women who really could pass. A Black audience would immediately know that a Rashida Jones or Jennifer Beals were passing and thus always be nervous for them, always wondering why no one else could see something that seemed so very obvious to them. [/italic]

There was a lot I did not quite get and I am not a fan of directors who make the audience do too much work. Like how Claire suddenly became the sons BFF or why Claire said "I would do anything to get what I want" which seemed to come from out of left field or what Claire's relationship with her daughter was and how old she was

I also did not really pick up on the lesbian flirtation--see link which is now at top of NYT website. I thought mostly they were very envious of each other and imagined the other had a perfect life and Irene was worried that Claire wanted to bone Brian.

NYT Lesbian Angle story

As soon as I saw the picture of the movie as I looked for something to watched I was so turned off by how whoever made this film was insulting the intelligence, never mind the eyesight, of the audience that I would never try to watch it. There is no way in hell those women would not be sees and black women. As R8 pointed out there are many black actresses who could pass that they would pick these is a joke.

They should have cast Meghan Markle. I mean she fooled me. Why else would I let her marry Harry?

R104 But, here is the thing. Rebecca Hall has said she wanted to make this film because of her own family's history. I doubt there is any black stranger she has ever met that thought she was black. As to her mother, I don't think she ever "passed" as she came from a time where that had largely ended at least in her professional life. Though there were probably white people that just assumed she was "exotic."

The author of the novel, however, Nella Larsen could have passed better than the actresses in the film, with the right hair style and makeup.

r100, I saw it. I was a bit confused about it. I felt that Irene had a fascination with Clare that was beyond just friendship. She really pushed for her husband to take to her. I thought she wanted a 3 some kind of thing. But then when they became friends without her, she felt replaced. So a lot of that was odd to me and I wonder if the book explains it.

Poor Viola.

I definitely saw some lesbian subtext in that montage scene. A lot of sensual glances and touching of each other. I read the book afterward though and it was a lot clearer there. Also the references to Andre Holland's character being gay which weren't as clear in the film.

Casting issues aside, I thought it was a nice watch. The cinematography reminded me a lot of 'Ida', all the snowy fog. It's a beautiful looking picture to get lost in on a Sunday or something. I just didn't really go for Tessa's performance. She is a bit wooden to me, all those soap opera dramatic stares, something too forced. Negga has brought a LOT of Cate Blanchett in 'Carol' to her performance but she was excellent. The most interesting character in the film by far and a very dynamic portrayal. The rest were fine. I will say the ending was a bit sudden and random, i'm still not sure what to think happened, although perhaps that's the point.

I also love Dev Hynes and that piano tune was perfect for the era but SO repetitively used. It bookended almost every scene?? :/

r111, I thought that was the point of Tessa's performance. She was fake. She was mentally passing for white. Acting like it was assumed someone from her elite status in the black community would be like - a white person.

It seemed fake as hell because it was fake as hell. She longed to have the life of an actual woman who could pass and envied her friend for it. Whereas the other longed for the life she gave up, where she could be herself.

But I still don't understand what happened in the end. Did Tessa's character kill her? And why? Was she really concerned that now she was outed she would take her place in Harlem.

R112 I agree with the premise of your post. There should definitely be some facade in Irene's manner. 'We're all passing for something' is a line I believe she even says in the movie. But i'm talking specifically about the actress not convincingly disappearing into the character. When I watched the film I didn't see Irene being fake, I saw Tessa Thompson giving a 'performance', complete with intense stares and jerky head movements and line readings that sound like she read it off the cue card. With all the other characters, as broad as the performances can be (Negga's certainly is), I feel like i'm watching the characters, with her I feel i'm watching her PLAYING the character, if that makes sense. Anyway, it didn't ruin the movie or anything for me.

Re: the ending, what I got from the film is that he was going to grab her and Irene put her hand kind of in the way to stop it, but in doing this Claire stumbled and fell out the window? Perhaps if he had grabbed a hold of her (he was unable to because of Irene) she would have survived? I don't know. In the novella it is even murkier, although in both it's implied Irene feels a sense of guilt about what happened, so maybe there's more implication of Irene pushing her and I just didn't pick up on it.

The novella itself is rather ambiguous about exactly what happens to Clare at the end as well. It seems equally possible that Irene either pushed Clare out the window, Clare’s husband did it, or Clare herself simply jumped out.

What the film did really well is translating that whole section with Irene where she is alone in the apartment and then walks down all those flights of stairs to join the others.

The film does retain the last line of the book (“death by misadventure”) which was inexplicably excised after Larsen’s first edition and then restored in later editions.

I’ll wait for the Ryan Murphy remake where he casts Laverne Cox and Dominique Jackson as the leads.

Actually, in the past, Ruth Negga would have passed very much. Many mixed people did and just claimed things like “Italian” etc. which was barely considered “white” but wasn’t black. true story.

I sometimes get shocked by how ignorant DL is when it comes to racial identity in the states.

This movie was the definition of ‘suspend your disbelief.’ To an above poster who said the white husband didn’t see she was black because he ‘lived in a world and saw what he wants to see’, I get that but are you telling me his (presumably racist too family and friends) wouldn’t be the first to say ‘why are you marrying a black girl?’

Because she claimed she wasn’t. R117. And they believed it. I have brown skin and white people always ask me what I am because they feel my look is ambiguous.

Jennifer Beals could pass for Italian. Mariah Carey could pass for Latina. The women in this movie? No. They look black - skin tone and/or facial features and hair.

R119 but they don’t.

R119 you can stay butt hurt and crying your racist ass 24/7 and keep replying to yourself like an unhinged psychopath, but in reality most people wouldn’t think this was a “black” woman with how she kept herself looking in the movie.

R121: I posted 1x in this thread and not butthurt about anything lol. Just stating facts. The women in the movie cannot pass for white, but there are POC women who can.

This movie would’ve united G and M as the two leads. This is just their kind of Oscar bait wet dream material.

This could have been an interesting vehicle for Nicole Ritchie to totally remake her career. She could have been this year’s female Simon Rex.

NO SALE R12 has stated her boundries.

These women pass as white in the same sense that 99% of transgender women pass as women.