Manson family member Leslie Van Houten recommended for parole for the fifth time

Van Houten was 19 when she met Manson and became part of the murderous cult that came to be called the "Manson Family."

Is she the one with the rich father who was always on Larry King?

They never accepted her role in the murders and just blamed Manson and drugs.

Perhaps we can open a B & B in Sausalito together.

This thread has become an annual DL tradition, one I appreciate more than Thanksgiving.

from Wikipedia:

Murders of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca Main articles: Tate–LaBianca murders and Manson Family On August 9, 1969, Van Houten, Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Linda Kasabian, Susan Atkins, Clem Grogan and Manson went to the house of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca.[10][19][20][21][22] Manson entered the house with Watson, then left with Atkins, Grogan and Kasabian. Krenwinkel, Van Houten, and Watson murdered the couple.[6][16][23] He allegedly sent the others to kill an actor, but Kasabian claims she led Atkins and Grogan to an incorrect address.[24]

Who was the actor Manson wanted to kill?

She looks like such a nice PTO, a harmless frau. Did she ever explain why she did it and is she sorry? Does she know it’s wrong now?

R5. Terry Melcher, Doris Day's son. Because Melcher was a record executive at the time and declined Manson's attempt to be a singer/musician.

Let her out. It’s time. There are murderers all over the country who do 20 years or less and are released. Every day they’re getting released.

This old woman is not a danger to society and everyone knows it.

R6. LVH has explained it a thousand times. She is remorseful more than she can say over and over and over again. She was 19. She is now 72. She is not a danger to society.

Van Houten has long since renounced Manson, who died in prison in November 2017. She has expressed remorse for her crimes, and at her 2013 parole hearing, her attorney argued that her value system was completely different from what it was in 1972. She let it be known that she "takes offense to the fact that Manson doesn't own up" to his role in the murders. She told Vincent Bugliosi, the man who sent her to prison, "I take responsibility for my part, and part of my responsibility was helping to create him." She has written several short stories, once edited the prison newspaper and did some secretarial work at the prison.

Sharon Tate’s family will do their best to make sure she’s never released. As they should.

And what work could she do when she gets out? Who would hire her? Unless they change her identity.

“is she sorry” and “does she know it’s wrong now?”

Are you a child, R6? Or just *brand new* to this topic?

[quote] Sharon Tate’s family will do their best to make sure she’s never released. As they should

First of all, Van Houten had nothing do with Tate’s killing.

Second, she should be released.

R10, what does Sharon Tate have to do with this? She murdered Leno.

She's 72. I don't think she'll be looking for work. Can you inherit money when you are in prison?

She may have her father's money locked away somewhere.

Is she able to promise she won’t ever do this again?

So how would a 72 year old without work or money live in the real world? Who would rent to her? How would she pay rent or buy food. Can she collect social security? Probably be better off in prison with free room and board and all meals paid for.

She'll never get out. Gavin Newsome has big political goals. Letting a Manson family member out is not going to look good on the resume.

There are rumors she has been receiving love letters from Oscar Pistorius.

FUCK OFF CUNT! ROT IN JAIL, YOU BITCH!!!

She originally got the Death Penalty, so life in prison was a better deal.

[quote] She looks like such a nice PTO, a harmless frau. Did she ever explain why she did it and is she sorry?

She was on a really bad acid trip and thought she was carving into her rosemary chicken dinner.

"We don't need the death penalty because life in prison is worse than the death penalty."

Life in prison isn't always life in prison. In Canada and the UK, it's 25 years, max, and we're headed in that direction.

Does parole include never having to hear from her ever again? No media interviews, no book deals, no communication of any kind? Just go away and disappear?

Then, I might be okay with it.

Of all the Manson Family members who participated in the two nights of killing, I believe that she was the least culpable.

[quote] [R10], what does Sharon Tate have to do with this? She murdered Leno.

Oh my god, Sharon Tate murdered Jay Leno?

r25 Tell that to Rosemary LaBianca's corpse!

That we keep her in prison is an embarrassment to Californians, to Americans, and to humanity. She was 18, and under the influence of an extremely influential, charismatic madman. I would ask the elder people here: Think back to when you were 18. Do you still have the same views, the same values- do you even relate to that person as the person you are now? She did a terrible, horrific thing when she was young. But, there was mitigating circumstances (mentioned above.) 50 years in prison is quite enough. To keep this person locked up is petty and cruel. Any random woman who'd done what she did in 1969, with no notoriety, would've been let out in the early '80s.

The Governor will refuse to sign off on her release due to politics. She's basically a political prisoner at this point. Her best chance was with Jerry Brown, who was retiring from politics. If they couldn't get HIM to sign off, I doubt anyone ever

I know someone will respond "What mercy did SHE show the LaBiancas?" For God’s sake, if the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of a drugged up 18 year old girl under the influence of Charles Manson, I am sorry I have lived so long.

She still has a sensualists look to her face. The bitch should rot.

R28 Now she was 18? Everyone knows she was 19. How weird you fudge the number just a little in her favor. She’s a succubus and you’re her creature.

She wants out so she can do it again!

If she is released she'll find it hard out in the real world. Tons has happened in America and Worldwide in 50 years.

Set her free. Enough is enough.

[quote] Think back to when you were 18. Do you still have the same views, the same values- do you even relate to that person as the person you are now?

I never murdered anyone at 18. This isn’t about being embarrassed about your teenage behavior like your crush on One Direction and now seeing the folly of your ways.

[quote] If she is released she'll find it hard out in the real world.

She'd likely get her own reality TV show -- Keepin' up with Leslie Van Houten!

Is she related to Milhouse?

[quote] Think back to when you were 18.

Yeah, I did, don't recall ever physically participating the act of murder someone. Nether did anyone I knew at that age.

Don't give me this "she was so young" BS. We sent men into war to kill each other at that same age.

Release Leslie.

I like Gov Newsom, but I'm afraid his higher political ambitions may not let him. Be strong, Gavin. Let her go.

A deal is a deal, what a loser. She took the deal for life in prison over the death penalty. Now she wants ANOTHER deal? Sorry no, you made your bed now lie in it. Can the people who were murded have a new deal to live again?

Hasn't her excuse always been that she stabbed Rosemary (16 times!) only after the woman was already dead -- not that that makes it any better, but...

Tex Watson oddly corroborates this detail in his book.

r7 No. Melcher wasn't an actor, he was a record producer. I suspect the actor was someone who owed drug money, & Kasabian balked b/c he was a name.

These were drug hits, plain and simple. Manson was a courier and he and his Family were "enforcers" for a high level drug gang. The whole "failed musician" angle was bullshit re: motive. No doubt he was pissed, but why would they even entertain him in the first place? He was already around them b/c he provided their drugs (and occasionally women).

Why do you think all the celebrities were terrified? It wasn't because a random band of homicidal hippies were running amok. It was because they knew who Manson was, who was behind him, and their celebrity wouldn't protect them from hanging out, and getting behind on their tabs, with the wrong crowd. This is the era when Mick Jagger thought it would be a good idea to have HA do security for a major concert.

As for Van Houten, she's clearly a political pawn. She should've been released long ago, especially in the California DOC system.

If you have paid your debt to society, they you be free. However, she's trying to get out of do that. Society deiced what the debt should be, and ever since then she didn't want to pay it. If she had any balls and actual values she would stop trying to come up for parole and pay her debts which was life in imprisonment.

^^ Parole Review is part of the prison system. It is for the Parole Board to determine if a prisoner is genuinely repentent, rehabilitated and fit for release. It is they who decide if she has paid her debt to society .

To become eligible for release one has to have a plan for the future that includes housing, financial security, etc. These things must be in place already or the Board would have voted to deny.

Let her out already. If enough Californians email/twitter-bomb Newsom. I think he might let her out this time.

Anyone who commits first degree murder should receive life imprisonment period. You take a life, you lose your life.

[quote] Parole Review is part of the prison system. It is for the Parole Board to determine if a prisoner is genuinely repentent,

And so is the Governor with his power to override poor decision made by the Parole Board. The Governor is given those powers for a reason. He has been chosen BY THE PEOPLE and acts on their behalf based on what they determines they want. Parole Boards are not elected, they are employees of a prison system, they more often than not let out repeat offenders who come right back into the system.

No California Gov is going to let her out, I don't care if it's Newsom or someone else, they will deny this until she pays her debt to society which was LIFE in prison.

[quote]Let her out already. If enough Californians email/twitter-bomb Newsom. I think he might let her out this time.

Hi Leslie! How is it in prison? Oh you think Twitter is that powerful? How cute. Look Dear, you did a very bad thing and you need to pay your debt to society. You could have gotten the electric chair, you should be happy. Gov Newom is not going to help you, it would be a death nail in his political career.

Oh, he's just thinking about career? Not really, ask yourself why. The reason it would be the end of his career is because he knows what the people want. They dont want your ass out on the street ever again. Sorry you dont think its fair. I wonder how the people you helped murder feel about whats fair.

A Governor is expected to review the merits of a case not to make decisions based on his personal interests.

Release her.

He's not doing it for himself, he's doing what the people want weighing the merits of the case vs the interest of the people. There is no benefit to society to release her. But there is a potential to cause harm if she is released.

She will die in prison, a life for a life. KARMA

There's no referendum re her release so no way to know what the people want. It's a flawed system in this respect.

John Waters has been advocating for her release for years, he considers her a friend.

[quote] Any random woman who'd done what she did in 1969, with no notoriety, would've been let out in the early '80s.

What an odd statement. The only reason she’s famous is because she murdered someone. She was pretty much the ultimate example of a “random woman”.

LMFAO So John Waters is the big guns here? He also released Divine on us who literally eats dog shit off the ground for shits and giggles. He loves the freaks and oddities, but that's not a reason to release them into the wild. He's a movie director, what does he know about criminal law?

R51 He meant a non-sensationalistic crime.

The "parole board" is just 2 people, It’s the fifth time officials have requested her release – but the previous times have all been overturned by DIFFERENT state governors. Newson will not be the first or the last. See a theme here? She was sentenced to death but given life in prison. She should be grateful. Sorry but the opinion of 2 employees in a prison system is not the same as an entire jury, judge and trial. Common sense.

Isn't it ironic, the fame she wanted by falling Manson is the very thing that came back to haunt her 50 years later. You reap what you sow.

[quote]He allegedly sent the others to kill an actor, but Kasabian claims she led Atkins and Grogan to an incorrect address.

And because of that, we have Mame and Life with Lucy.

The overwrought defender of Van Houten is tiresome. They show up this time every year, trying to sound all Kumbaya peace-and-love think-of-her-humanity, but always devolve into making threats and screaming about conspiracies.

LOL. If the Manson killers had written FAGGOT on the wall in blood, and cut the dick off a gay man instead of cutting a baby out of a pregnant woman, you bitches would be baying for blood.

She's a sociopath. Sociopaths have broken brains that can't be fixed. Let her rot.

Do the crime do the time. Let her stab herself 16 times in the same areas and to the same depth as Rosemary LaBianca. If she lives then give her parole.

I'd find it quite hilarious if they did let her out and within three months she's committed a couple of murders.

Statistically, regardless of the the 2 parole board members think, she is likely to commit another crime.

OP= John Waters

Van Houten should be shown the exact same consideration she showed the LaBiancas.

She deserves to rot in jail for the rest of her rotten life and I hope it is a long life to give her more time to think about what she did.

I'm sick of the excuses like she was only 19. We were all fucking 19 once and haven't been involved in killing anybody.

It's also about time John Waters grew up. His obsessions when he was younger about killers was sort of quaint but he must be about fucking 70 now and with age should have come some degree of maturity and empathy for the victims families.

Is John Waters even relevant anymore? I think his 15 minutes were long over after Hairspray. I dont think younger people under 40 even know who he is are care about his old films.

She can go live with her nephew, Milhouse.

Can we just please post the last thread on this broad?

We all still have the same opinions and will make the same arguments and insults.

"Suffered Enough" vs. "Lucky to Have Escaped the Death Penalty," Take 605!

"She's reformed!" "She's still alive and dangerous!"

"She was young!" ""She was a legal adult!"

"She only stabbed a dead person!" "She was a willing accomplice, and thus equally guilty by law!"

"She's remorseful!" "She still doesn't get it!"

"She's been imprisoned long enough and should be shown mercy!" "She had no Milk of Human Kindness for the LaBiancas!"

"Granting her parole would be good for our souls!" "FTS!"

[quote] But there is a potential to cause harm if she is released.

[quote] Statistically, regardless of the the 2 parole board members think, she is likely to commit another crime.

Ridiculous people ^^

Some of you DLers are so stupid and emotional, your minds forever clouded by black & white thinking. How do you make it through life? Are you also religious? That type of thinking is so simplistic and child-like.

I figure if Squeaky Fromme who was in the Manson Family and tried to assassinate Ford and has been out of prison since 2009 and hasn't reoffended we have nothing to worry about. Leslie sounds like she's reformed, and if prison isn't about rehabilitation than it's just a torture.

[quote]Are you also religious?

It is my personal conviction that the dear sweet lord baby jesus would want her to rot in prison until death. And then let her rot there for a couple more decades.

[quote]if prison isn't about rehabilitation than it's just a torture.

Prison is about removing people from soceity who have forfeited their place through their heinous deeds. As van Houten has done. She is exactly where she belongs. For society's good.

Maybe I am biased because I have a uterus and a womb but fuck no. I do not care how sorry she is, there are crimes that cannot be forgiven and one should be made to suffer the consequences forever. If she is remorsefull send her to a more relaxed security prison or give her the chance to go out occasionally but no, she should not be free.

Highly topical. I've been thinking about how nice it would be if somebody was as assiduous about connecting Donald to Jan. 6 as Vincent Bugliosi was about prosecuting Manson for the Tate-La Bianca murders.

It’s never found to happen, and it never should. I don’t care how old she is. What they did was incredibly gruesome. It would be political suicide to whoever lets her out and if she did somehow get out, the mob would have her killed anyway for the La Biancas. She can die in there like Charlie did. It’s a punishment for taking several lives in a horrible way. I can’t believe anyone feels sorry for her.

Let me play the role of Sharon Tate’s late mother: “When will my daughter be released from her grave?!”

Except LVH wasn't present at the Tate murders

Way to miss the forest for the trees.

Susan Atkins was denied a parole of grounds of compassion even though she was suffering from brain cancer and had undergone a leg amputation. Van Houten can hang it up. She is not going anywhere nor should she. She was given life in prison after California rescinded the death penalty and life is exactly what she should receive. The only place she should have gone is to the mortuary.

You people must be OUTRAGED at all the other murderers who actually killed people—as opposed to just stabbing a corpse—who are released after spending only 20 years in prison.

Because those types are released all the time and *actually* pose dangers to society.

It must be exhausting for you

R80 Wasn't your mum's corpse van Housten mutilated now was it?

Was Rosemary your mother, R81?

R82 She certainly wasn't yours, now was she?

R23, the UK has the option of whole life tariffs for exceptional cases.

R83, see R80.

R85 proves the point. Aptly.

[quote]the UK has the option of whole life tariffs

Used to be called "at Her Majesty's pleasure". Which meant the bugger was NEVER getting out of prison.

Sharon Tate was a terrible person married to a man who raped children. Fuck that dead cunt.

Team Leslie. People who did worse have been released without ever spending as much time as she has in prison.

She would be released to live with family in rural Oregon. She'd be my neighbor, and I would be fine with her as such.

R81 IS Rosemary's Baby.

Pilot Rock, Oregon, to be exact.

The unborn child never would lived down being the child of an infamous pedophile/rapist. The Manson family did a good thing. Sharon must have been a complete deviant to be married to someone like that.

I wonder if she has gotten a lot of girl on girl action while in the slammer.

R90 obviously got lost on her way to elementary school.

I love it, R4.

[quote]Sharon Tate was a terrible person married to a man who raped children. Fuck that dead cunt.

[quote] The unborn child never would lived down being the child of an infamous pedophile/rapist. The Manson family did a good thing.

Just when you thought DL posters had reached the apex of monstrous deplorables, R88 R92 post to illustrate that there are heights as yet unscaled.

R69 calling others stupid and emotional is pretty rich.

[quote]It's also about time John Waters grew up. His obsessions when he was younger about killers was sort of quaint but he must be about fucking 70 now and with age should have come some degree of maturity and empathy for the victims families.

I’m open to a swap. John in/Leslie out.

[quote] [R69] calling others stupid and emotional is pretty rich.

Expound on this, please.

She has not aged well...

R5, from Wikipedia: Later the same night, in the Venice Beach, Manson allegedly asked Kasabian to participate in the murder of a Lebanese actor named Saladin Nader. Kasabian claims she purposely knocked on the wrong apartment door in order to avoid causing any harm to Nader.

[quote] Her best chance was with Jerry Brown,

I always thought her best shot was with a younger governor/younger parole board who have no personal stakes in the case and don't remember the case when it happened in real time.

I dont care if she was 18 , by eighteen she knew it was wrong and she participated , hang her high.

I lived in Monrovia, Ca for years -she went to Monrovia High School. I don’t think that SHE would be dangerous but I wouldn’t be thrilled with “the crazy” element that might go looking for her. I would think she would be fearful as well. … The right in my area HATES Newsom and Pelosi. If someone’s car gets egged in a parking lot it is “Newsom’s fault!” If someone has to put a mask on to go into the store it is Newsom’s fault. SO STUPID! It’s bad. I think if he released her it would totally hand his opponents dynamite against him. Can you imagine the re-election ads with shots of Squeaky Fromme being hauled away from Ford and the footage of Atkins, Krenwinkle and Van Houten with their heads shaved?

Save your keystrokes, people: she's never getting out, unless she gets compassionate release someday after she is diagnosed with terminal cancer.

Granted, the act that she did was deplorable; however, she has served her time. Anyone else would be out be now but Newsom blocks the approval. Another, glaring reason why he is self serving and a horrible governor.

[quote] unless she gets compassionate release someday after she is diagnosed with terminal cancer.

It's highly doubtful at this point. Susan Atkins wasn't granted compassionate release even as she was dying of brain cancer -- granted, Atkins was more popularly remembered for being much more savage and boastful over the crimes.

She could be an elder-model - great bone structure (as long as no one recognizes her.)

Leslie Van Houten was a Charles Manson follower who admitted in court testimony to stabbing one of the victims of the “family” 14 times

She should have been hanged.

Really, R109? This is the first we’re hearing about that case. Who is this “Charles Manson”? Tell us more!

Yes, r110, he was a cult leader from the 1960s basically who had a fam—

Hey! Wait a minute.

The troll who thinks this old lady would likely go on a murderous rampage after release is amusing.

None of those directly involved with the Tate-LaBianca murders will ever get out, and that's not because of the Tates. It's because of the Folgers, who are incredibly wealthy and influential in California. For years, it was Abigail Folger's father who kept his daughter's presence in Tate films and books to a minimum, all the while exerting political pressure to ensure her killers never got out. Now, it's her brother. Leslie, Patricia, and Tex had better just resign themselves to their fates.

I could see Bobby Beausoleil getting paroled at some point. Nobody cares about poor Gary Hinman.

Let her out. She's not going to harm anyone.

Except you bastards calling for her to rot in prison for eternity. Lock your doors motherfuckers. She knows her way around.

On Datalounge, her true crime is not looking like Christopher Watts.

Set her free. It's time. Do it!

I’ve decided not to waste my time arguing with the twats who want this piece of shit released. Fortunately, she will die in prison, so the bleeding hearts here can stay pressed.

Leslie will be sucking cocks in hell soon enough so don't waste anytime letting her out of jail.

do you get a salary when you are in prison? If you do and she gave it to the victims family I might believe she is penitent.

“pressed”… oh boy, if that isn’t a low IQ tell.

I feel like these rabid pro-parole people were not even alive during that time. It was so awful, so heinous, and the killers were so barbaric and unrepentant. I have no compassion for them. I’m sure there are plenty of people who did less and are never going to be released. The only positive I see is saving taxpayer dollars for one less lifer. It’s not a good enough reason. John Waters fascination with her reminds me of Truman Capote’s obsession with the Clutter family killers.

There’s no accounting for taste^^

[quote] Let her out. It’s time.

Sez who? You? You must be very fond of violent criminals who break into people's homes and stab them and stick forks in them and carve words in their stomachs and write on the walls in their blood. You sick fuck.

Hey, Patricia Krenwinkel is up for parole next year. Just save your comments and substitute her name for Van Houten's when the time comes.

[R28], please speak for yourself. I'm American. It's not an embarrassment to me. It never has been one.

[R7], it was the Grateful Dead's idea to use the Hells Angels. The Stones used the London Hells Angels at their free Hyde Park Concert five months earlier, with no incidents of violence.

Sorry, my reply was directed at [R41].

R28 trots out that “political prisoner” line in every one of these threads. It’s ridiculous. This was an unforgivable crime.

[quote] Hey, Patricia Krenwinkel is up for parole next year.

If LVH doesn't get out, Krenwinkel (and Tex Watson) most certainly will not. It's been so long since I've heard of PK attempting parole, I thought she had quit.

r126 The Stones were the headliners, they [which basically meant Jagger] had the final say, regardless of whose initial idea it was. (Although that might be revisionist history, as IDR the Dead ever having any kind of say in the planning stage.)

It was David Crosby, of all people, who publicly criticized them for making that decision, saying in effect you knew what they were, don't blame them for being themselves. (Not that it's right in the first place, of course.)

Hello, [R130]. I see what you're saying. My take on it is that Mick would more than likely have left the planning to the SF boys of the bands (he wasn't that hands on in 1969 the way he was after Altamont), and thought the Hells Angels of London were behaved in the same way the same was behaved in California. David Crosby's comments were damage control so the Angels wouldn't come after him. Remember, Crosby lived in CA. The Stones flew home to Europe the day after Altamont.

The other thing to keep in mind about Altamont, in case somebody says the band continued to play after Meredith Hunter was murdered, is that the Stones played to riots for three years 1963 - 1966. It was something they were used to, and to stop playing seemed to incite further rioting. Also, it wasn't that easy to see what was going on. I don't know if the 'Gimme Shelter' footage reels show anybody telling any of the Stones what had happened while they were playing.

And there's also some BS story circulating that when Meredith Hunter was brought to the helicopter that was waiting to bring the Stones back to SF, they were refused by the pilot. That's a violation of the law and would have certainly come out at the trial of the Angel who murdered Hunter.

She is like Myra Hindley, so notorious and despised that no politician would dare authorise her release. She committed terrible crimes and deserved her punishment. I think she should stay in prison for her own safety. Somebody would kill her.

I think it would be cruel at this point to let her out, prison life is all she knows. She has literally spent more time there than on the outside. She wouldn't be able to cope no matter how many "family members" were to take her in. The humane thing is to let her die there where her real family is. If you family cared about her, they would feel the same way. Besides, all she would do is go on welfare and food stamps sucking up more state money because she never worked a day in her life. At least where she's out now, they get a group rate.

The Case of LVH makes for interesting reading of people's differing views of justice---for the law; for the victims; for the perpetrators; for the families; for society.

LVH will, rightly or wrongly, justly or unjustly, be forever linked to, convicted of, and sentenced to die for the 7 "Tate-LaBianca" slaughters in toto.

Many murders are committed annually in the US. Many shock our collective conscience. Many get a brief mention and are forgotten.

And then there are those so heinous, so seemingly random, so grotesque, that those crimes are destined to be part of our national lore, part of our national "yearbooks" ("In 1969 we had the Moonwalk, Woodstock, Altamont, Chappaquiddick, and Tate-LaBianca").

Add in the victims' fame and/or fortune in a wealthy enclave, and you have ready-made publicity.

But add in one stabbing victim's being 9 months pregnant, with her blood used as fingerpaint, and you have a horror so repellent that to parole anyone even only tangentially connected to it by that person's participating---with FULL KNOWLEDGE of what had been perpetrated the night prior---in a "follow-up" multiple murder....

Is simply unthinkable to most.

Leslie Van Houten, for all the bombast of self-righteous indignation and accusation here at her continued incarceration, will never walk free again.

Let whatever "mercy" she receives be post-mortem.

^^^This

As long as there is LSD on this planet, there’s the chance she could do it again and go on another murderous spree.

Her prison walls help protect from this.

I believe, and Harry believes what I tell him, that she's a fellow victim and deserves to be released. We are looking for a new nanny for our perfect mixed-race children and we're willing to take Leslie in and she can stay in one of the cell like servants rooms in our home. She's accustomed to small places. We hope you'll respect her privacy as much as you respect ours.

R133, wouldn't John Waters take her in?

You make a strong case for the death penalty, R24.

You want her paroled? Then she needs to be paroled to you. This is done all the time. To your home & that means support her, fully. No? Not willing to put your money where your mouth is, BLOW HARD?

Oh, and once she is fully your dependent, perhaps we can have Gloria Allred cook up a wrongful death suit & you can pay it...Hello? Hello? Are you still there with your Release the Lovely Leslie Drum?

And yes, Iooking at you too John Waters. Put your money where your shooting mouth Waters is or STFU.

[quote] there’s the chance she could do it again and go on another murderous spree.

I don't think she'll ever be paroled, but how likely is it, exactly, that this elderly woman is going to be going on another Helter Skelter-style stabbing spree?

Ah the softening approach, how likely is she kill anyone again. How likely is it that Sharon will give birth to her baby or star in another film? How likely that the LaBianca's will have Thanksgiving with their family?

No they don't matter at all do they. If it was your family, let's see how you feel. But, of course it so long ago.

OK Murdering bitch gets paroled to your house, & you pay for all till she dies, no backsies. Plus you float the Whole boat, so pull out your wallet..cause I've Gloria Allred on speed dial for that wrongful death suit.

And O.J. went free.

I don't really think she should be paroled. She's had better luck than most, having her death penalty reduced, and she actually experienced six months of freedom during her second trial.

[quote] you pay for all till she dies,

Like it or not, we're already paying for her until she dies anyhow.

Sick of all these dumbfucks who keep bleating on about LVH not being a threat to public safety and therefore, should be paroled. Prison isn’t always about rehabilition. It is about punishment, especially in these type of cases. What LVH did was determined to be so heinous that the people of the State of California determined long ago she needs to spend the rest of her life in prison. Not 40 years, not until she’s a sweet little old lady but LIFE. We all get old and we all have to bear the consequences of our actions even when we’re old. Age is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. LVH killed someone, therefore she will die in prison. Simple concept.

She’s lucky she didn’t get executed. I’m sure her victims wish they could walk out of their prisons (i.e. their coffins) too.

[Quote]Ah the softening approach, how likely is she kill anyone again. How likely is it that Sharon will give birth to her baby or star in another film?

Why don't you read the thread before making these uninformed remarks?

Van Houten wasn't involved in the Tate murders. She wasn't there. If you don't know this much you have no credibility.

Leslie will spend her final days rotting in jail. That's how it will end for her.

It doesn't matter that Leslie wasn't at 10050 Cielo Drive. If she's paroled and the public tolerates it, that opens the door for Patricia and Tex to get out, too. Peter Folger will never tolerate that.

^^ not necessarily. Technically LVH did not kill anyone. LaBianca was already dead when LVH was forced under threat by Watson to stab her The others killed.

Frankly I believe LVH's greater crime was to help hold down Leno while Watson stabbed him.

But she was a kid on LSD influenced by a cult leader and she has proved to the Parole Board at least that she is remorseful and fit for release. I would support her release. But I'm European. We tend to believe in rehabilitation.

Leslie isn't going anywhere except to hell when she dies so we can close the thread now.

[quote] Leslie will spend her final days rotting in jail.

Are you kidding? Leslie and Pat start off every morning with patio-side brunch and a hot steaming cup of Folger's coffee.

And even Capote wanted the Clutter family killers dead.

Nobody thinks she'll go on a killing rampage they just feel she should serve her sentence. I'm not getting the reason of those who want her freed.

A very good reason for the death sentence to have been ​carried out if there was one. Imagine if you had to spend the rest of your life enduring the torture of trying to keep the killer of a member of your family in jail due to the very disturbed intentions of individuals under the guise of christian teachings to free them.

The little piece of white trash is lucky even to be alive. She was initially sentenced to be gassed. She should count her blessings and just fuck off.

There are not many criminals that I believe deserve the death penalty. The Manson crew certainly deserved it, and were sentenced to it. I've read Helter Skelter a couple of times, and other things about these crimes, including updates on the whole story as time has passed. There are still missing people who were known to have come into contact with Manson and his hags, and never seen again. Neither this woman, nor any of the others, should ever be set loose, and it seems abundantly obvious (based on the case of S. Atkins) that it's just not going to happen. Of course this old bitch probably wouldn't hurt a fly if she was let out of jail, and she was young and misled at the time of the murders, but the horror of what these people did is beyond quibbling about. She took part and she's not getting out of jail alive.

We only have Leslie and Tex's word that Mrs. LaBianca was dead when Leslie stabbed her.

Mary Herron's "Charlie Says" is a really good film based on a book written by a therapist who worked with the imprisoned Manson girls for years. After watching it and reading the book, I feel bad for Leslie and the terrible choices she made. However, she did make them, and I remain unconvinced that she should be paroled.

[Quote]We only have Leslie and Tex's word that Mrs. LaBianca was dead when Leslie stabbed her.

The autopsy supports their claims.

So they kept stabbing her after she was dead and this makes everything ok because she was nothing more than a butchered piece of meat?

[quote] We only have Leslie and Tex's word that Mrs. LaBianca was dead when Leslie stabbed her.

True, but why would Tex lie for Leslie's own behalf? He also copped to being the one who actually killed Sharon Tate, even though most people still assume Susan Atkins did (it didn't help that she falsely gloated about this in the beginning).

Another thing, taking all those drugs at a young age has made her brain whack. She’ll be on the dole wherever she is. So let her stay where she is.

[quote] True, but why would Tex lie for Leslie's own behalf? He also copped to being the one who actually killed Sharon Tate, even though most people still assume Susan Atkins did (it didn't help that she falsely gloated about this in the beginning).

I think he did it to increase his own chances for parole. I think he thought it would make him look good, accepting responsibility for such heinous crimes, expressing remorse. I think he thought the parole board would think he'd come far in his rehabilitation if he did that and consider releasing him. Tex Watson is, and always was, pure scum.

It would be ironic if she was released but had nowhere to go. John Waters takes her in and then she stabs him to death.

That would be amusing.

Reply 145, I agree completely. some lifers deserve their sentences. Van Houten is lucky she didn't die by state execution which was her original sentencing. There is a legal precedence at stake with the Manson followers. I hope governor Newsom overturns this wreckless decision(which b.t.w. was probably made by a panel of only two state employees).

No one who did what Leslie Van Houten did should ever be let out of prison. She'd already been given a second change when her death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. She doesn't deserve any more mercy. She should die in prison.

All you European bleeding hearts: if she did this to my family members and you had your way and she was paroled, I would make sure her newfound freedom was extremely short-lived.

Wasn’t Tex Watkins’ nickname on the ranch Mule Dick?

I only ask because, well, I do have a spare room. And if the experts say he’s reformed - -

Leslie could have distanced herself from the Family during the trial like Linda Kasabian did. Instead, she gleefully acted like a fool along with Susan Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkle and she continued to associate with them. The three of them holding hands and giggling through the halls of the courthouse, during their MURDER trial, is seared into most people's brains, and Leslie cannot shake this, no matter how many years go by and how many times she comes up for parole.

Advocates for the victims and most of the public see Manson, Tex, Leslie, Susan and Patricia as a package deal. This is unfortunate for Leslie, but she brought it upon herself, as did all the others.

The killers had three months to regret, repent, confess, or squeal. No one did. The Family was not even on the radar. If it wasn’t for big mouth braggart Atkins they may have had months more to keep killing. And I think we can all agree there were other murders we will never know about. All those wayward kids who displeased Manson…

I suppose the state had to pay to remove the X she carved on her forehead too

Here's :Linda Ronstadt's encounter with Leslie Van Houten, from "Simple Dreams":

We had a pal named Dan Blackburn, who worked as a news correspondent for NBC. He was a good skater and offered to meet us at the beach and give us some tips. Dan said he would bring a friend he wanted us to meet. He arrived at the designated hour and introduced us to a slender brunette, quiet and pretty, with a refined, well-brought-up manner. Her name was Leslie. We skated for an hour or so, until we were accosted by a tangle of people who were lying on the ground, trying to grab our ankles and begging for water. Some of them were eating dirt. They were obviously wasted on something strong. Someone said it was "angel dust," which was the street name for PCP. The analgesic effect of angel dust can prevent users form realizing they need water, and by the time the drug starts to wear off, they are desperate with thirst.

We managed to slide away and skated to a nearby restaurant for lunch. After we ordered, we began to talk about how we felt sorry and embarrassed for the people we had seen, that they had been shorn of any dignity they may have possessed, and that angel dust looked like a bad drug. Nicky and I had never tried it, and wondered what could be its appeal. Quiet Leslie became animated and said that yes, it was a very bad drug, and could cause one to do things one would never do when sober. She said she knew this, because she herself, had done some bad things under the influence of drugs and had gone to jail. Remembering my own jail experience, I naively asked her what she was arrested for. "Murder," she replied. "Well, who did you murder?" Nicky sputtered. Leslie replied that her full name was Leslie Van Houten and that she had been part of Charles Manson's "family." Nicollete and I were choking on our burgers. She seemed so nice and normal.

We wondered as politely as we could, how she had gotten out of jail and could be lunching and roller skating with us instead of sitting in a cell with the rest of her cohorts. She was out on an appeal because her attorney disappeared during the trial, and so she was found to have had ineffective assistance at trial.

As she saw it, the combination of Charles Manson's influence, plus the drugs he had encouraged her to take, would convince the court that she was not in her right mind, and therefore innocent. Dan and Leslie left us pondering how someone's life could change so irrevocably from normal to grotesquely tragic. As we skated back to where the car was parked, we wondered, could this happen to either of us? Or someone we loved? It definitely reinforced the hearing loss argument against drugs. I remember feeling so disturbed and distracted that I lost track of what my feet were doing and fell hard on the concrete. This, added to my fall down the stairs at the Capitol theatre a few years earlier, caused years of back problems.

Leslie's appeal, no surprise, was ultimately unsuccessful, as she was retried and ultimately found guilty. After close to a year of freedom, she was returned to prison, where she remains to this day.

R156 Mary Herron is as appalling as John Waters.

That film was a load of shit.

R171 And may she rot in jail until the day she dies.

[quote]I don't think she'll ever be paroled, but how likely is it, exactly, that this elderly woman is going to be going on another Helter Skelter-style stabbing spree?

It wouldn't be the first time.

R103, Marcia Clark was no Vincent Bugliosi (who in fact wrote a book shredding her approach, her decisions, and her abilities).

R166, I am not a bleeding heart, but living in a country where the death penalty was abolished decades ago makes you realise that serious crimes including murder still happen without such a “deterrent”. The death penalty is barbaric and achieves nothing but revenge.

She's old. Not a threat. Let her out.

[quote]The death penalty is barbaric and achieves nothing but revenge.

Works for me.

I am American, don't believe in the death penalty at all. Neither do the majority of people in my state of California which is why it's been put on hold for the last 15 years and an additional legal moratorium has been put on it from our current Governor, Gavin Newsom. That being said, I have no problem with life sentence actually being for life. Life without parole if you murder someone. Why call it that if you don't mean it.

Prison in America is not a reform facility, it a form of punishment for crimes committed. Why on earth would anyone think most people who have been in that system, would suddenly be reformed? If anything, they learned how to be better criminals. Birds of a feather. It's actually laughable that people think the length of time spent equals enlightenment and reform.

Its not like that everywhere in the world, some countries do in fact try and help and change the behavior of their inmates. But that is not and has never been what happens in US prison system. Leslie Van Houten has not been reformed no matter how much she charmed the parole board or put on a good performance in her psychological evaluations.

[quote] this wreckless decision

Oh, DEAR!

They let Sirhan Sirhan out, time to let her go too.

No, they didn’t. He’s not out.

Oh, in that case, they didn't let Sirhan Sirhan out, they shouldn't let her out either.

R 177. Let us know where you live, we'll be dropping her off if she gets out. You get to pay all her bills, including any wrongful death suits...

she should be let out and dropped off at R185's house! at night

But they could give her one of those ankle bracelets.

I agree that Leslie's behavior during the trial sealed her fate. Her own lawyer, Ronald Hughes, wanted to separate her case from the others', as she was only charged with the LaBianca crimes and may have only been guilty of stabbing Mrs. LaBianca's corpse. The family likely murdered Hughes over this.

Had she listened to Hughes and turned witness, she probably would have gotten off with a sentence of just a few years. She'd have served her time long before she was 30 years old and could have gone on to make all the movies with John Waters that she wanted. She showed no remorse until it was much, much too late.

I agree 100%, R188. The thing about these people is that they smirked and joked and tittered all the way through the trial, for murders that were totally senseless, unprovoked, and just random slaughter. So the question is, WHEN did it begin to start to dawn on these lovely ladies that maybe they had made a mistake in their actions? And what was it, exactly, that made them come to the conclusion that attacking and slaughtering complete strangers (two of them while they were fast asleep, the LaBiancas) was "wrong," a bad idea? Hell no, this bitch has no claim to be entitled to be turned loose.

R185 is sadly not well-informed or educated on the parole system. I am a former parole officer supervisor and later have served on parole boards (not in California). Those being released on parole are routinely arranged a place to go prior to release. Most situations in most states, there is follow-up and monitoring. In LVH's case, a sister, or another close relative in the northwest, has long agreed to accept her as a resident. That requires pre-approval.

It took years, R189. According to the book written by Leslie's prison therapist, it was well into the '70s before she and the others abandoned Charlie.

^I was speculating purely rhetorically about her sense of responsibility. Any 17-year-old who doesn't understand that you don't climb through someone's windows and slaughter them with knives in the middle of the night is not even a human being, as far as I'm concerned. I don't CARE about her remorse, or her getting a prison college degree, or turning to Jesus, or any of the other bullshit these people have come up with as justifications for letting them loose. They are much worse than vicious animals. They SHOULD have all been executed decades ago. And as I said much higher up in this thread, I am generally opposed to capital punishment. -R189

Daughters.

If she is no longer considered a threat then there is no legal reason to keep her incarcerated.

Her life sentence legally envisioned parole. She had a right to expect parole consideration be handled in a fair manner. It was not handled fairly according to established practices for the longest time. As someone noted above, another female inmate similarly situated for the same crime (minus the celebrity & politics) would have been released in the 1980s. When the Parole Board finally acknowledged that she met all the established criteria for release on parole, the decisions to deny release were strictly political.

There is no place for that kind of politics in the system. There is a sound reason why parole must be viewed as fair and playing by the rules. It is one of the factors that encourages - indeed motivates - inmates to work toward rehabilitation and compliance. If they cannot rely on that then you lose a strong and effective measure of control.

So yes, she has become essentially a political prisoner subject to the whims of the politicians who are using her for their personal gains. She became one decades ago.

Three comments worth repeating

R145 said:

[quote]Age is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

R189 said:

[quote]The thing about these people is that they smirked and joked and tittered all the way through the trial, for murders that were totally senseless, unprovoked, and just random slaughter. So the question is, WHEN did it begin to start to dawn on these lovely ladies that maybe they had made a mistake in their actions?

R191 said:

[quote]It took years, [R189]. According to the book written by Leslie's prison therapist, it was well into the '70s before she and the others abandoned Charlie.

[quote] But they could give her one of those ankle bracelets.

Oooooh. If you get the right one, those can be lovely.

[quote] If she is no longer considered a threat then there is no legal reason to keep her incarcerated.

You think that’s the only criteria?

Harvey Weinstein is old and frail, doubt he could get it up anymore so he’s no threat. Let’s release him.

I saw the EARONS killer be wheeled into court in a wheelchair looking like he couldn’t even move from the chair, much less rape or kill any more victims. Let’s let him go, too.

Oh, and your law degree is not up to snuff if you think they have “no legal reason” to hold her.

[quote] Age is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

That's an exaggeration of how it is considered. It serves no purpose in the discussion. But age is definitely a factor for release both in terms of likelihood to offend, dangerousness to the community and cost to society to keep an aging prisoner in jail. That all has a statistical basis.

Smirking 50 years ago? Seriously.

[quote]So the question is, WHEN did it begin to start to dawn on these lovely ladies that maybe they had made a mistake in their actions?

Or is the question WHY?

If she has met all the criteria for release including a recommendation for release by the parole board then, yes, there is no legal basis to hold her.

The governor's decision is a political decision. You can play word games all you want but his authority to deny parole is and was meant to be a purely political decision.

The governor has the final say. That's the system we have. Deal with it.

[quote]The family likely murdered Hughes over this.

Another reason she's not going to get out of prison.

I don't believe for a minute that she feels remorse or that she was under the spell of Manson. Everyone in the cult congregated around Manson because they were similarly inclined towards violence and murder. That said, there really should be something like juvie but for adults. Keeping elderly people in the prison system is odd.

I took acid often when I was 18 and I never once stabbed a dead body. Leslie needs a better excuse.

Get that flame thrower ready, Leo.

To use politics is total bullshit. Where did you people go to school? A political prisoner? What a joke if you even think you know what one is. Many many people do not want her out. No matter that a couple of people including you believe that she's now a nice old lady who wouldn't hurt a fly. Oh she paid for her crimes. Duh she can never 'pay' for her crimes. She made that impossible. As if murder were something you could get a fair exchange on. I guess she was hoping for a sale.

[quote] Many many people do not want her out.

There you go. That is exactly what makes it political. We do not administer the justice system by popularity. If she meets the guidelines for release which take into account all the factors necessary under the rules and the law then she gets paroled.

And the governor has the right to deny that parole. That does not make her a political prisoner. She is not being held in prison due to her political beliefs.

Her wiki page info says this about the idea that she stabbed the corpse of Rosemary LaBianca. "When her lawyer, attempting to show she felt remorse, asked if she felt sorrow or shame for the death of Rosemary LaBianca, Van Houten replied "sorry is only a five-letter word" and "you can't undo something that is done". In cross-examination, Van Houten aggressively implicated herself in inflicting wounds while the victim was living, and severely wounding the victim, severing her spine, which might have been fatal by itself.

[quote] The death penalty is barbaric and achieves nothing but revenge.

What's wrong with revenge? When unspeakable crimes are committed revenge is quite acceptable.

r197 the big difference in those cases is neither were convicted of their crimes until they were old. And serial killers are not going to get out.

So what? That person (you?) alleged Van Houten was no longer a threat due to her age.

It’s my contention there’s a lot of people who, due to their age or other infirmities are no longer a viable threat. That doesn’t mean they should be let go.

Prison in the United States has many purposes: Rehabilitation, Isolation of the dangerous from society, punishment, and a deterrent to others who may have inklings to commit similar crimes.

If your murders were so nefarious and high profile that the entire world is aware of them, you do get different treatment than everyone else, as well it should be.

R149, You mean like the even younger kid who followed a cult leader to murder people in Wisconsin?

Also, r149, an accomplice on scene who doesn't murder but abets it, is equally culpable UNDER OUR LAWS. "Under threat by Watson"? Well, okay, then! Get the kitchen fork, Leslie!

Also, r146, r142 was making a more significant point.

And I'll reiterate with addendum: LVH EAGERLY VOLUNTEERED to go on Murder Night #2, after learning of the "creepy-crawly" slaughters at 10050 Cielo. LESLIE WENT OUT TO KILL, to "fit in" with her fellow savages.

Oh, and if anyone here thinks people in their 70s can't be psychopathically violent creatures, I give you Exhibit A: TFG.

Parole her to a nice radical Muslim country where Sharia law will be sure to do what needs to be done for darling Les. to atone for her deeds.

She sure as hell not moving into my neighborhood.

I welcome her in my neighborhood. There are a few bitches who need a little stabbing on my block!

It's time. Let her go. Enough.

^Keep repeating your mantra. She's gonna die in the pokey.

[quote] an accomplice on scene who doesn't murder but abets it, is equally culpable UNDER OUR LAWS

Your example doesn't actually fit the facts of this case. But your statement is a generalization that doesn't always hold.

The answer is it depends. Aiders and abettors, like accessories, can be held accountable for different levels of culpability. be before the crime or after the crime.

Even if the law considers the A&A equally responsible for the crime, there is often a different sentences based on the level of culpability.

In Van Houten's case they considered her an actual perpetrator.

Didn't Manson say she had a big ole, gaping poosie? That would be perfect for the TERFs to enjoy. They don't get much otherwise.

[quote] It's time. Let her go. Enough.

Shut up. you yammering fuckhead. You're an idiot.

She will never be released. LVH will die behind bars.

And then her corpse will be kept in jail. Nothing's getting out. Ever.

R65- According to Town and Country he is. He's on the cover this month.

R10 she was not at the Tate residence 9/9/69 She participated in the slaying of Leno and Rosemary LoBianca. I don't think Debra Tate has any say in the parole of Van Houten

[quote]r226 she was not at the Tate residence 9/9/69

And yet, she had evil intent of [italic]the mind[/italic] that night.

That is enough.

R227 and how many DLers are likewise guilty of 'evil intent of the mind'?

Oh, let her out!

You guys know she’s had plenty of hair pie in all her years behind bars. I wonder if she laps it like a dog. Her elderly hands gliding over a supple breast. The gasp of pleasure as she’s penetrated by an index finger. Vulva slapping against vulva. Clit stim.

And there goes breakfast!

Some people only get five or ten years for murder.

This is pretty arbitrary.

And there are those who get life sentences.

Fun fact, she's in the same jail as DL fav Betty Broderick!

R218 Go where? Do you have a room to rent?

She has a lot of support if released . She may even have a condo in Manhattan Beach waiting for her from what I hear

California Supreme Court or highest court are her only chances for release. Newsom’s reason for denial are capricious

R231, is a homophobe

All the Manson murderers should stay in prison until they are carried out in a pine box.

They don't deserve a moment's freedom. Tate, her friends and the La Biancas weren't left with any freedom.

Fuck 'em. Die in prison.

When she gets out, she needs to appear on an Oprah special and have a full makeover. Style and color her hair, have some botox and fillers, quality lip gloss; diminish the wrinkles. She'll need charming, colorfully printed attire, but not the flashy-type wear that Caitlyn Jenner adorns. Her nails and hands need the manicure stuff and hide the liver spots. She seems tall. Some dark brown stilettos would look nice. Oprah can get one of the top Hollywood stylists to manage the makeover. Leslie has the build/frame that can turn a sad demeanor to radiance. This will greatly facilitate her re-ajustment and self-esteem.

She will need new, stylish glasses as well. Maybe contacts.

R240, "Dark brown STILETTOS"?

She should bring her sharp wit, too, right?

The reality is except for the celebrity of the victims, these crimes are not more heinous than thousands of others.

You think other people aren't murdered in cold chilling blood? Think again.

You think other people were killed because of a carefully thought out plan? Think again.

You think other pregnant women haven't been killed? Think again.

You think other people haven't been cruelly stabbed to death multiple times? Think again.

You think other people haven't been murdered after pleading for their lives? Think again.

You don't think there are murderers who have killed more than one person and then committed more murders shortly after? Think again.

There is literally nothing that distinguishes this case from others - some more heinous.

The only thing that has kept this woman in prison this long is the political pressure on a politician. Period.

You think there aren't convicted murderers who die behind bars serving life? Start thinking.

If released Leslie will certainly need some help in jump starting her career. She seems to be good with knives so perhaps she could become a celebrity chef or perhaps a butcher.

Or baton.

Leslie would look years younger with hair color/ cut and contacts or stylish glasses

I believe Leslie would benefit from a class at John Robert Powers modeling school. Are those offered in the area where she lives?

You think there aren't murderers who are released on a regular basis all the time? Think again.

In DC we have a new law that relooks at murderers who committed their murders when young-youngish, under 25. Motions are being filed that gives them a chance for early release.

We are actively releasing these murderers in their late 30s to mid 40s. Murders for killing witnesses, for being mad at someone who wouldn't give them money, for messing up a drug deal. What do you think the chances of them re-offending again? Yet these releases are being heralded as wonderful events. You see the reality is murdered barbers and murdered pregnant teens with no names are acceptable victims.

^I am pretty sure she used to be a cheerleader, and she used to let that be known (vociferously) in support of her previous petitions for parole, so yes, certainly, becoming a model would be a logical career choice for her at this point, were she to be let out of the slammer. I might even be willing to reconsider my hard-hearted position that she should continue to rot in prison if we could be assured that a reality show could be based on this proposed program for her rehabilitation.

The saddest thing obviously besides the murders , is that Leslie was not only very beautiful and classy, she was brilliant. She could have been a senator’s wife or a female professor.

Once you're a cheerleader, there's nothing left to reach for, you know that.

Oh, there's one thing.

I certainly wouldn't want to invoke your wrath, Mrs. Ramsey, but what are the odds of being named a Beauty Queen at the age of Seventy-something? Whereas LOTS of older gals have been sashaying down the runways these days.

[quote]She could have been a senator’s wife or a female professor.

Just imagine, Mrs. Lindsey Graham, Ph.D., Professor of Sociology, Trump University

[quote]Whereas LOTS of older gals have been sashaying down the runways these days.

As much as I love to, I am pretty busy nowadays. I do however, get to sashay in the Capitol corridors and through the breezeways at Mar-a-Lago.

Fuck you Leslie! You have always been such an entitled cunt. I had to lie on a gerney wearing my lucky GoGo boot, you selfish, egotistical bitch. They don't my ass out, they won't let you out either.

She was an attractive young woman. She messed up her future quickly.

There's one way this case is differentiated from all other cases, r243, this one is the Manson Murders.

For younger people Manson is just a word, a spooky fable, surreal. For people who remember, we really remember.

Fuck that homicidal cunt, let her die in jail like Charlie. Some notorious crimes the public never gets over and some criminals never get out because of it. That's reality.

She is/was a anorectic for most of her life. A prison psych eval on labeled her shallow and superficial, lol. Looks mattered to Leslie. She was with Bobby Beausoleil and he is the one who brought her into the family. I really do not think she would have looked at Manson twice otherwise. For a murderer she feels very superior to others in many ways. 🤷‍♀️

She seems so nice. I would love to have her over for Thanksgiving. I guess I would have to hide the knives, though. Just in case.

The Manson murders were in a class by themselves. That's why the Manson killers have been in jail for so long. Rarely have their been murderers as dangerous and deranged as the Manson family.

Hide them, r261?

Why? She’s already proven she’s adept at carving. Let her do the bird.

[quote] Rarely have their been murderers

Oh, DEAR!

How fucking dare anyone out there make fun of Leslie after all she has been through.!

All you people care about is making money off of her.

SHE'S A HUMAN! (ah! ooh!) What you don't realize is that Leslie is making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about her.

She hasn't been out in years. All you people want is MORE! MORE-MORE, MORE: MORE!.

LEAVE HER ALONE! You are lucky she even posed for you BASTARDS! LEAVE LESLIE ALONE!..Please.

Perez Hilton talked about professionalism and said if Leslie was a professional she would've pulled it off no matter what.

Speaking of professionalism, when is it professional to publicly bash someone who is going through a hard time.

Leave Leslie Alone Please! Leave Leslie van Houten alone! Right now!. I mean it.!

Anyone that has a problem with her you deal with me, because she is not well right now.

LEAVE HER ALONE!

Does anyone from either side ever attend her parole hearings? Both LVH and Patricia K. appear to be very bitter and angry about parole. I remember when they were filled with joy and relief that they would not fry in the electric chair as they were originally sentenced. Such short lived gratitude. Are her victims still dead? STFU, Leslie. 🎶You can't always get what you want. 🎶

I guess you're right, R263. I didn't think of that. I was only worried about my own well-being. A professionally sliced turkey is key to the perfect Thanksgiving, though. If there are a couple of casualties... It's just collateral damage!

She got caught and we're supposed to feel sorry for her?

As long as he is already dead, right? Then it doesn't matter.

[quote] If there are a couple of casualties... It's just collateral damage!

Let’s not dwell on the small, insignificant details.

Leave her alone right now or we'll deal with you, R265?

Okay. Well, shallow, selfish, stupid cunt Leslie van Houten can die in a grease fire, the sooner the better. Let her go join Charlie and burn in Hell. I will be happy the day she dies. I'll curse her name and curse her deeds until the day she dies and long afterwards, she deserves nothing less.

She will never get out of prison. Never.

After they killed the LaBiancas, Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten drank chocolate milk from their refrigerator. They also snacked on cheese from The dead couple's fridge. That detail should be brought up at every one of their parole hearings.

Great news! If by chance Leslie's modeling career doesn't take off she can become a diary farmer.

She could shit rainbows at this point but it would be political suicide for Newsom, or any other governor, to sign off on her parole.

[quote]As someone noted above, another female inmate similarly situated for the same crime (minus the celebrity & politics) would have been released in the 1980s.

And there's the rub, she wanted all the celerity, she and Charlie enjoyed being in the lime light. She laughed her way through the trial and on TV in front of millions of viewers. You wanted fame, you got it. You reap what you sow.

So she gets out, lives in public housing, gets welfare and social Security? Or will she get a Netflix deal?

[quote] There is a sound reason why parole must be viewed as fair and playing by the rules.

You mean like not climbing through a window and murdering someone? Like that rule?

[quote] Both LVH and Patricia K. appear to be very bitter and angry about parole.

One thing I will give LVH and PK credit for is not turning into prison Born-Again fundies a la Susan Atkins. That's such a cheap cop-out.

[quote]The saddest thing obviously besides the murders , is that Leslie was not only very beautiful and classy, she was brilliant.

LMFAO. Smart people don't end up in prison for 30 years. OR laugh and make faces during their own trial for that matter.

[quote] Her own lawyer, Ronald Hughes, wanted to separate her case from the others', as she was only charged with the LaBianca crimes and may have only been guilty of stabbing Mrs. LaBianca's corpse. The family likely murdered Hughes over this.

It's likely that Hughes drowned at Sespe Creek. I know that area pretty well, and it's prone to flash flooding, and it was raining when he went backpacking there.

Of course, the possibility that he was murdered can't be ruled out, and it certainly adds to the mystique of this case.

The fact that she feasted on cheese and chocolate milk after the killings is enough to get her thrown in culinary jail for life.

NO PAROLE!

If she gets out Netflix will have her move in with Harry and Meghan, so they can so her the compassion they're always telling us to exhibit.

[quote] The fact that she feasted on cheese and chocolate milk after the killings is enough to get her thrown in culinary jail for life.

Considering that The Family lived on scraps scavenged from garbage cans they probably found the chocolate milk and cheese a satisfying dining experience. And what did you think the LaBiancas would have had in their fridge, anyway? Caviar and pate de foie gras?

Van Houten's lived for 50 years rent free. And Rosemary?

The prison she is in , CIW is a country club , especially in her first 3 decades . It was like a college campus

Team Van Houten! We're with you, Leslie.

^ elder Mansonite

R243, Yes, yes. Your argument is tedious.

Multitudes of crimes (and good deeds, for that matter) are not given publicity, nor is there room anywhere to so publicize, not in media, not in our brains.

Certain crimes will always capture the popular imagination.

We DO know that Lindbergh's baby wasn't that year's only kidnapping victim, but there ya go. "Crime of the Century."

You seem to be unaware of how the world works.

Perhaps, r283, r281 is confused and is thinking "cheese and chalk."

Governor Newsom, be brave and let her go.

Scott Michaels in Six degrees of Helter Skelter says the LaBianca killers are their cheese and milk on the sidewalk which is not quite as bad as having it in the house with the dead bodies.

Wow. I can’t imagine running into LVH around LA those months she was out on bond.

You know, if they had released her a year ago, I guarantee she would have shown up at the Capital during the insurrection, as a fangirl of the QAnon Shaman.

[quote]Governor Newsom, be brave and let her go.

LOL that's not brave, that would be stupid. Being brave is overriding her release which he has done.

If they were to let her out, they should force her to turn over any money she makes from interviews, movie scrips, books, anything about her life to the victims of the Manson murders. She should not be able to profit from that in any way. It's been done with other people before.

[quote]fangirl of the QAnon Shaman.

That would be Josh Hawley, not Leslie.

R272 The food would have gone to waste anyway.

Unless you CAN take it with you I don't think the money would be useful to the victims.

Leslie is the only woman John Waters would fuck.

[quote] she can become a diary farmer.

Dear Diary,

Today we planted seventeen more just like you….

Or as somebody said she could butcher the cows for beef.

Perhaps the much-aligned Miss Van Houten could hawk Ginsu Knives in a series of infotainment commercials....

^That's a great idea. She could start out her teevee show from inside the prison itself, and then if it takes off, maybe they would let her out a little bit, gradually working up to longer and longer lengths of time. Just to make SURE, you know...

And, r302, she could emphasize how the knives are best used to cut up meat that's already dead!

[quote] [R243], Yes, yes. Your argument is tedious.

R288, yes yes reality is tedious. Don't strain your brain. But it's what we have to deal with. The realities of crime.

There is nothing special about the underlying crime legally and the only reason it is being treated as special is because it involved celebrities. We should not treat celebrity defendants as 'special' nor should be treat celebrity victims as 'special' or in a class of their own. But that is exactly what has been done on this case.

Perhaps we should organize a bake sell in order to pay for Leslie's make over.

Before the murders, Leslie was very beautiful

Why don’t you become her pen pal boyfriend?

"We should not treat celebrity defendants as 'special' nor should be treat celebrity victims as 'special' or in a class of their own. But that is exactly what has been done on this case."

But R305, that's what's done in EVERY case involving celebs.

Part of the issue is celebs can afford teams of top attorneys. That’s most usually going to create a different outcome than being represented by free public counsel.

Manson and his followers committed these murders not just for revenge but for publicity. Charlie wanted to be famous, and if he couldn't be a beloved rock star, he was content to be a notorious criminal. His followers wanted nothing more than to make Charlie's dream come true.

They wanted publicity, and they got it. And all that comes with it, including life in prison without parole.

R307 She was ‘very beautiful’ my ass!

homecoming princess

young girl

Which girl is the one who got the car keys and drove away, leaving the rest behind, in Tarantino's reimagining? Same one that testified in court that she "just wanted it to stop"?

R303, or a double bill with Colton Underwood. "Leslie COMES OUT (of jail)!!!"

I could see good 'ol Les in a walk-on role on Grace & Frankie. She moves in next door to Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin's characters. Whacky hijinks ensue.

Linda Kasabian, R315.

I think anyone that murders another human being intentionally and without merit should be imprisoned until their victim says they agree to release.

The LaBianca's were not celebrities. I don't think they even new Sharon Tate. It's just that their murders have been lumped together.

... knew ...

[quote] The LaBianca's

Oh, dear!

Leslie and Ruth Ann Moorehouse (aka "Ouisch," the inspiration for Margaret Qualley's character in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood), were the only pretty Manson girls. And they were just average, high school cheerleader/girl next door pretty. But compared to skanks like Patricia Krenwinkel or Squeaky Fromme, they were real lookers.

Thanks, R318. Get all the Leslies and Lindas LaBiancas mixed up.

R323, Gypsy was hot

R319 Well considering their victims are dead they are not getting out unless the parole board and governor are friends with Madame Arcati..

I believe Manson chose the La Biancas because he knew a neighbor - so knew something about the neighborhood. Can't remember now if he just chose the house or the family. I think it was just the house.

Manson bartered a lot of personal protection and access to celebrity circles using his girls' pussies. He got Terry Melcher's attention by pimping out Ouisch, and he got the Straight Satans' protection by pimping out Ouisch and Leslie (they fucked all the girls, but those two were always the most in-demand).

It's important to remember that Manson's main game and mindset were that of a pimp. A violent, psychopathic pimp, but a pimp nonetheless.

[quote] He got Terry Melcher's attention by pimping out Ouisch.

I never did believe that. Melcher became acquainted with Manson due to Manson's association with Dennis Wilson and the Beach Boys. Wilson DID fuck Manson's girls; Dennis Wilson would fuck anything. But Melcher said he never fucked the Manson girls and I tend to believe that. Detectives who questioned him about his association with Manson suggested Melcher was involved with Manson because he was fucking Manson's harem of teenage girls. Melcher then took out photos of some of his former girlfriends, "real beauties" all of them, telling the detectives that with women like that to go to bed with why would he want Manson's "clap-ridden, unwashed dogs", as he called them. He admitted giving money to Manson, but he said he did it because he couldn't stand the idea of little kids eating out of garbage cans (several of the Manson girls had babies). I think that sounds plausible.

As for little "Ouisch" aka Ruth Ann Moorehouse...well, she's not nearly all she's cracked up to be. In terms of attractiveness she was more presentable than some of the other Manson girls, but to hear talk on these Manson threads you'd think she looked like Elizabeth Taylor and that all men salivated over her. Photos of her show her to be be what she was: a disheveled, little hippie girl who looked like she hadn't bathed in quite a while, with a swastika carved into her head. She was also as murderous as any of the rest of them. She told Danny De Carlo, the biker who hung out with the Manson gang "I can't wait to get my first pig." She gave a girl who was to testify for the prosecution in Manson's trial a hamburger laced with ten tabs of acid. Luckily the girl survived, but little Ouisch did not a day of jail time for the murder attempt. What a shame. She deserved a long jail sentence. She tried to kill that girl.

Leslie is and always has been ugly inside and out.

R327 yes it was the house. He didn't know the LaBiancas or that they were wealthy.

She will be the toast of the Paris runway soon. What a babe!

[quote] Stop lying. His body didn't just give out. He was 45 years old! LOL

He died of a heart attack, after many years of bad health. No doubt his system finally just failed. Boy, you're stupid. LOL!

Leslie Van Houten slays at Paris Fashion Week - Wintour raves Leslie's cutting edge! - Elder models have knives out following killer debut - Leslie: I figured I'd take a stab!

With a diet of only chocolate milk Leslie is bound to stay slim for the catwalk.

Middle age Leslie reminds of Mary Tyler Moore

she's 72. how many 144 year old women do you know?

I was referring to her when she was in her 40’s

I just looked up Ruth Ann Moorehouse online and stumbled upon this linked site, which offers a wealth of facts about Manson and the "family"s presence in the music scene in CA, leading up to the murders. There is MUCH more about Manson's past too, which may well be flaky, but the other coincidences it mentions are fascinating (e.g. that Ruth Ann Moorehouse's father had briefly lived in the guest house at 10050 Cielo Drive at the time that Terry Melcher and Candace Bergin were living there; and that Manson had apparently been to that house numerous times before the murders; that Sly Stone stated that he had seen Manson at Melcher's house on Cielo). It's loads of background info not covered in Bugliosi's book, and in fact the author of the post indicates that Bugliosi KEPT Melcher from testifying about a lot of things on the stand in the trial. It's worth looking at.

Leslie is as repentant as a priest who has had the cutest altar boy.

One small quote from R339 re our very own cover girl here:

From an interview with Leslie Van Houten in December of 1969:

MISS VAN HOUTEN: You’re going to really think I’m nuts, but, yeah, I do. I think I’m an angel, so to speak. Not with wings, you know. Naturally I know I don’t have wings.

But, I mean, in other words, I believe I’m one of the disciples. I’m one of the people spoken about in the Bible. Maybe not mentioned, you know, like names, but I know I’m —

[quote] He died of a heart attack, after many years of bad health. No doubt his system finally just failed. Boy, you're stupid. LOL!

Oops! Wrong thread. Sorry.

R 243, just jot down your address & we'll be dropping Leslie the Lovely right at your house. Anyone else you'd like paroled to you? Sirhan Sirhan perhaps? Shame Charlie is dead, you could have him also. You pay all the bills, & no backsies

My guess is that if paroled John Waters would take her in. He'd take her to Hollywood parties and introduce her to celebrities. He'd escort her to premiers and maybe take her to the Academy Awards. In his book "Role Models (Leslie is one of them)" he tells of how Leslie, while out on bail awaiting a new trial, actually went to the Academy Awards (how did THAT happen? I don't think he explained it) and was so unobtrusive that nobody noticed who she was. WHAT THE HELL WAS ONE OF THE MANSON KILLERS DOING AT THE ACADEMY AWARDS? Anyway, he'd take her under his wing and reintroduce her to society and maybe give a part in a film. I think he's that crazy.

R344 A part in a film? Waters hasn’t made one since ‘04.

I didn't click on the 344 replies before this one. Surely, the time to celebrate is *after* Gov. Newsom approves it. Don't you see he will be carpet bombed after it reaches his desk. My observations of conservative influence is that it crushes non-conversative ditto. For lack of a better term the Left (& I'm not applying that label to those who wish to see LVH freed, it's just I can't come up with anything else at the moment), when it comes down to it, is fragmented and splintered, prone to infighting, wh. ultimately leads to a watered-down solution, or no solution at all, the process aborting itself before it's completed.

I have my own opinion about this. And I will seek to keep it out of this. I just see this as buying time. If she is released, maybe the right wing nutjob media will be able to release the Vice President from its misogynist clutches, and focus on LVH, the newest flavour of the week.

Leslie Van Houten is a real person. She's not an abstraction, she still exists when you're not thinking about her.

She committed a terrible act at age 18, under the heavy influence of drugs, and a psychotic madman, who was very skilled at getting people to do what he wanted them to do. I know I was not at all a fully formed person at age 18.

Remember back to June of 1970. Think of the massive amount of time that has passed. All of the mornings you woke up. All the nights you went to sleep. How you've grown old in that time.

Van Houten has woken up every single one of the mornings in prison. She's lived every single one of those minutes for the past 51 years in prison. The most miserable place on earth.

She has paid SUBSTANTALLY for this crime she committed at age 18. Keeping her locked up at this point is NOT justice. It's a uniquely American misplaced notion of revenge. And it's petty as hell. That so many people support keeping her locked up is sickening to me. It is inhuman.

Again, to those who say "Well what she did to the La Biancas was inhuman." Again, if we are not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of a drugged up 18 year old girl under the influence of Charles Manson, I am sorry I have lived so long.

Leslie has been shown compassion by not being gassed. The little skank needs to stop asking to get out of prison which contributes to more damage to the victim's families. Rot in pieces Leslie.

John Waters called a murderer a role model?

Really?

R347, And yet, in 1969, multitudes of "not fully formed" 18-year-old males were sent to Vietnam to engage in armed combat, risking their lives.

That "so young!" argument is bogus.

BFW, r347, none of the Manson Murderers was on drugs those two nights. Charlie wanted their minds clear for their tasks at hand.

You know what, r9? I'm also 72 (11/05/49), and I feel rage towards every one of the 1/06 planners and participants.

Luckily (for me) I respect the law and my freedom.

I'm just saying, don't presume any harmlessness due to age.

R28 19 and you know that. What skin do you have in this game?

R347 She hasn't spent EVERY fucking day and night in jail. She was out on parole for a period of time int he 1970s. She attended the fucking Oscars.

She deserves to spend the rest of her life in prison. And may it be a long one to give her lots of time to think about the hideous crimes she committed.

[quote] Van Houten has woken up every single one of the mornings in prison. She's lived every single one of those minutes for the past 51 years in prison. The most miserable place on earth.

Had they carried out her initial sentence appropriately, she wouldn’t have been there for that length of time and we wouldn’t even be talking about the audacity of requesting parole.

[quote]am sorry I have lived so long.

There are ways around that.

R329, you are entitled to your opinion, but Terry Melcher's thing for Ruth Ann Moorehouse is pretty well known and documented. The fact that he had Candice Bergen at home wouldn't affect his liking for free jailbait pussy, especially given that he was part of a crew of privileged Hollywood men who called themselves "The Golden Penetrators." A jaded and massively privileged person like Melcher, especially in that time and place, could very well have been turned on by a pretty hippie girl who would literally do ANYTHING.

Shit, it's like some people have never heard of slumming.

This thread has become a cherished thanksgiving tradition, reminding me to order my Turkey from the butcher.

[quote]r356 The fact that Terry Melcher had Candice Bergen at home wouldn't affect his liking for free jailbait pussy, especially given that he was part of a crew of privileged Hollywood men who called themselves "The Golden Penetrators."

Candice Bergen couldn’t hold her man. And for that, she should be included in all charges.

When Leslie is released, she needs to see Caitlyn Jenner and Kathy Hilton to rejuvenate her regressing, original beauty. Advice on a bit of 'Nip n Tuck' is in order also.

[quote]Keeping her locked up at this point is NOT justice. It's a uniquely American misplaced notion of revenge. And it's petty as hell.

It may be many things, you pompous do gooder, but petty is not one of them. Pettiness relates to the inconsequential and surely her murderous acts do not qualify as inconsequential even by your high minded standards.

[quote]She's lived every single one of those minutes for the past 51 years in prison. The most miserable place on earth.

Better a place on earth than in it.

Pettiness refers to the reason you do something. It has nothing to do with the subject you are making the petty remark about.

[quote] That "so young!" argument is bogus.

It's not bogus. it is a valid and accepted factor in determining not only sentences but release decisions.

There is a whole movement in the US to release murderers who committed their crimes when under the age of 25. These releases are being heralded as progressive.

Yet some of these murders are as heinous or worse than Van Houten's. So either we as a country are supportive of rethinking original sentences for younger offenders or we're not.

Van Houten's age did not get her off or get her a more favorable sentence. She was convicted and has done more time than most murderers who are parole eligible or have done their full time.

R351, I read in a different places that Tex and Atkins admitted to doing speed, or amphetamine, the night of the murders. I'm not sure how accurate that is -- and both have changed details in their stories over the years -- but it sure would explain some of the overkill.

Bitch shouldn't have done the crime if she didn't want to do time. Let her die in prison, at an extremely advanced age, she deserves it.

[quote] Van Houten's age did not get her off or get her a more favorable sentence.

Right, because even then we knew her crimes were so heinous and so beyond the pale she should never see the light of day again, in spite of her age. And she originally was sentenced to that via death.

These crimes were so notorious they’re known the world over and plunged an entire city into fear. These are not murders people should be released for like a drug dealer killing another drug dealer.

[quote] There is a whole movement in the US to release murderers who committed their crimes when under the age of 25. These releases are being heralded as progressive.

R363 What movement is this?

[quote] even then we knew her crimes were so heinous and so beyond the pale

I am very glad for you that you don't seem to have experience with crimes. I truly am. It can psychologically difficult to have to deal with murders and other assaultive crimes. The reality - which you have been thankfully shielded from - is that her crime was not so heinous or beyond the pale in comparison to other murders. They were horrific as most murders are but your attempt to rank them fails.

R367, the latest dance craze sweeping the nation.

It's nuts to think anyone wants to keep her in jail out of pettiness. It demeans the seriousness of the reason she's there in the first place. She didn't steal a car.

I like Leslie. I got to know her when I was working at the mental health clinic at the CIW. I knew Susan Atkins and the woman made famous by the Boomtown Rat's song "I don't like Mondays) - her dad sexually abused her and bought her guns. Leslie and Susan did volunteer work - I think it was Leslie who helped with the clinic's flower garden - and I think she played instruments. She helped sew costumes for the "musical theater" put on in the mental health unit. I recall Susan was getting too sick to do much.

On my last day, I ordered a bunch of pizzas and snuck them into the clinic for the inmates working/volunteering there.

^Touching, really. Sweet...LOL....

R363:

"She was convicted and has done more time than most murderers who are parole eligible or have done their full time."

So? Different crimes get different sentences. She is not in prison for what she is now, she's in prison for what she did then, and that hasn't changed. It doesn't really matter if people think she "deserves" parole or how "unfair" it is to deny it. She is not getting out.

R373, you don't understand parole if you think it is not about what she is now. That is exactly what it is about. That's what the entire concept of parole is based on. SMDH.

All crimes are not equal. She forfeited her place in society. She has no automatic right to its restoration. Parole is granted, not an entitlement or earned by the passage of time and statute gives the governor the final say.

R371, did you meet Krenwinkel?

'R347 has got to be a parody post. Nobody thinks so highly of their own goodness other than a sociopath.

R326....um....nuance is not your talent, evidently.

[quote] I am very glad for you that you don't seem to have experience with crimes.

As a police officer for 28 years, yeah, I think it’s fair to say I have experience with crimes.

[quote] She committed a terrible act at age 18, under the heavy influence of drugs, and a psychotic madman, who was very skilled at getting people to do what he wanted them to do.

Yes those are her excuses: "I was young! I was on drugs! I was under the influence of Charlie Manson!" She's never taken responsibility for her atrocious crimes. Never.

My Mom didn't buy that that time I pissed in the hall outside my bedroom.

Granted, I didn't play the Manson card.

Are there any celebs advocating for her release? Kim Kardashian maybe? If not, she has no chance.

I doubt anybody cares about Debra Tate. The Folgers are where the real $$ is.

Did they make all that money on just instant coffee?

And decaf.

R307 so right after the murders she suddenly became ugly?

R357, Don't forget to stick a fork in it when it's done!

Some footage of Folger's funeral. I don't think I'd ever seen this before. The family has always seemed to remain very quiet, tight-lipped, and distant from the scandal.

[quote] Some footage of Folger's funeral. I don't think I'd ever seen this before. The family has always seemed to remain very quiet, tight-lipped, and distant from the scandal.

Maybe they want to just put all the horror behind them. I thought it was commendable of the Tates to become victim activists and lobby to keep the Manson gang in jail. It must be really hard to dredge up the memories of what happened to their sister/daughter, who was butchered and eight and a half months pregnant and by all accounts a sweet, gentle, nice human being.

wonder if R388 is the DL photo troll who keeps reading way too much into random public photos and videos. Lots of comments about how human beings and their relationships "seem" in the few moments they're captured on film.

R390, I have no idea who you are talking about, and that is not me.

[quote] As a police officer for 28 years, yeah, I think it’s fair to say I have experience with crimes.

R379, then you should know better than to suggest that the crime of stabbing a woman to death - as awful as that is - is some special level of heinousness that parole should never be allowed. Unless you work in Mayberry.

In 1994 the D candidate for Governor in PA was on the state parole board. He was the Lt Governor and one of his jobs was being on the board.

This guy clawed his way through a tough primary, was well poised to overcome what was a bloodbath year for Democrats, and then a parollee went and raped and killed a woman about 30-60 days before the election. Basically became the central issue in the campaign. The Republican, Tom Ridge, a former prosecutor, went on to win by 2%.

Since then, all state parole boards have tightened up. It's not that they think all these people are bad or are going to commit crimes. it's just not worth the headaches to deal with the fallout when a single one fucks up. let alone a high profile one like this.

Point being, these decisions are often political. Either in terms of voters or in how parole boards behave. Doesn't matter if the board has a 99% success rate in choosing who to let out if a single murder occurs

[quote] then you should know better than to suggest that the crime of stabbing a woman to death - as awful as that is - is some special level of heinousness that parole should never be allowed.

The Manson murders were in a class by themselves. That's why the Manson gang should never get out. They're very special murderers. The worst of the worst.

R358 Melcher was fug. How did he attract Candy?

[quote] Melcher was fug. How did he attract Candy?

I wondered that myself. Maybe he had a great personality. And he was a rich record producer, so his wealth would also attract young, hot women. He traveled in circles where young, hot women were readily available. All the talk of him fucking Manson's girls (and fixating on little Ouisch) sounds like crap to me. I don't think he would have touched Manson's creepy, smelly, dirty, wacko, VD ridden, self-mutilating sluts with a ten foot pole, unless he was some kind of sex freak, and I don't think he was. I think he liked beautiful women and the Manson harem was definitely not a bevy of beauties.

[quote] I doubt anybody cares about Debra Tate. The Folgers are where the real $$ is.

Debra Tate is a total attention whore. I remember when she had the meltdown because she thought Quentin Tarantino was going to cast Jennifer Lawrence as Sharon for Once Upon A Time in Hollywood. Tarantino was considering Lawrence for another part.

I don't think Terry Melcher was obsessed with Ruth Ann Moorehouse. I think, like Dennis Wilson, he liked dabbling in the alternative hippie lifestyle, fucking the prettiest of Manson's freaky girls, and then going home to his mansion in the hills. Just another rich kid slumming.

One of Manson's favorite party tricks was the "strip and suck." All he had to do was snap his fingers, and any of his girls would drop her dress, get on her knees, and blow whoever he told her to. That would get anyone's attention, even someone asjjaded as Melcher.

Melcher was the son of Doris Day and a successful record producer. That kind of status will always get women. He and Candace probably had a lot in common: She was a Hollywood legacy too, and they both liked the good life. The difference is that Candace was not interested in dabbling in anything counterculture: She once went to a jeans-and-pot Hollywood party wearing lounging pajamas.

Drama Queen Alert at R394!!!

The Manson girls were teeming with VD. The biker Danny De Carlo got a case of "the clap" from one of them and he said it took months to go away.

R397, I'm not impressed with Debra Tate either. She has come off over the years as someone who is doing all this for attention -- compared to her mother, Doris, and late sister Patti who did really seem like they wanted justice. She's made the Van Houten parole hearings all about herself when LVH wasn't even a part of her sister's murder. Why not the LaBianca family take center stage?

I was watching 1971 on Apple TV. It was a series of like 7 hour long episodes on post 60s pop culture.

In the next to the last episodes they did a segment on the Manson murders and how it affected the 60s. I was kinda shocked when they showed the dead bodies of all the victims. The real crime photos. It was brief, but they showed it. Ugh. Just awful

Fuck the whole Manson family, they need to all stay in jail.

She’s a weird sensualist. A real spun out personality disorder and psychopathic. She really thought it was delicious to murder then wink at the world. You know that cunt is still there inside her.

[quote]Unless you CAN take it with you I don't think the money would be useful to the victims.

All the victims had some kind of family, brothers, sisters, parents, etc, I am sure someone was traumatized by it enough to affect their lives. So yes, if she was let out, making her pay if she tired to profit of it would in fact be a requirement in my book. She may have paid her debt to society but not to the family of the actual victims.

r402 "Why not the LaBianca family take center stage?"

Err.. are you familiar with Rosemary LaBianca's daughter, Susan LaBerge? That cunt had the nerve to petition for her mother's killer to get parole. Doris Tate told the bitch off.

Free Leslie!

You know the best why for her to be free? Suicide.

R405, yeah, Suzan LaBerge was a real ... piece of work. Some people wonder if she actually knew Tex before her mom/step-dad's murder.

Leno's relatives, the Smaldinos, always make it to the parole hearings; rarely given the same press as Debra Tate.

Interesting twist, LaBerge’s daughter was stabbed to death. Is she willing to forgive the killer?

Also, it’s strange how she struck up a friendship with Tex Watson, taking photos with him in jail and being pen pals with him. Maybe she’s one of those strange women who are attracted to inmates, or had the hots for him all along?

LaBerge allegedly cheated her brother out of his inheritance from his parents. The son is the one who discovered the LaBiancas' bodies when he came home, at the age of 15, from a weekend away. Then, his sister cheated him in the parents' estate business. His life was ruined. There is a LOT of speculation nowadays that the LaBiancas seemed to have a lot of shady money: it was known that the husband Leno was deep in debt to his own company, had skimmed off about $100,000 from it for gambling debts (that's +$750,000 in today's $$), and yet Rosemary's estate was valued at over one million dollars. They are known to have had Mafia connections, and there WERE documented connections between them and Tex Watson, and pretty good evidence that other Family members had been to parties at that house. Some speculate that Rosemary was involved in the black market for LSD, possibly angering Mafia drug dealers that she would have been competing with - and there are a LOT of drug dealers on the scene with the Manson killings, including associations with the Tate-Folger house, the LaBiancas, and the Family itself. There is currently much speculation and theorizing that the neat and tidy story put forth in Bugliosi's book, Helter Skelter, does not adequately explain the mountain of facts, evidence, and coincidences that have been documented about these murders. It's not just paranoid speculation, there is just too much about this story that was not investigated closely by the police back then. As with most sensational crime stories, a lot has been dug up online since the time of the trials.

My yearly thought on Leslie is if you're truly remorseful, if you truly regret what you did, if you are truly, truly sorry....quit going for parole and quietly serve your life sentence and be grateful you weren't put to death.

[quote] Free Leslie!

Free Willy!

R411, yeah, there were lots of odd details re: the LaBiancas. Didn't Suzan and Tex live in apartments that were walking distance from each other at some point? Personally, I think they knew each other beforehand.

Let Leslie out and round-up the Karens to do some actual work.

Although I have no personal frame of reference, I can't imagine a person or a family carrying so much anger against this person for so long even if the original crime was horrific.

'is some special level of heinousness that parole should never be allowed.'

I think if somebody kills a person so callously they should never be paroled and if you think they should be you are a very disturbed human being holding both murder and life so lightly.

R416 you can't understand. Losing someone because of someone else's actions is awful, and murder is the worst. And it's not as though this issue comes up every day. Parole comes up, the survivors make their feelings known, then go back to their lives.

If what is said is true, the Folger family will make sure that the Manson cultists die in prison. No sympathy from me.

Even within the Manson family, the inconsistencies in punishment varied extensively. Some of them got away with commiting felonies, either in exchange for testimonies, or by a sympathetic judge. Leslie Van Houten can't undo her horrible actions many decades ago. However, consideration for parole needs to have some compatibility with established standards and practices in California. If the criteria for her is way above others in similar situations, she is a political prisoner, and has been so awhile. The California judicial system, upon the re-sentencing, did grant her the possibility of parole "consideration" after X amount of time served. They have not expressed she exhibited bad behavior or noncompliance while incarcerated.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo....

Take it up with Abigail's brother if you care that much about Leslie's golden years.

R421 Leslie had nothing to do with Abigail Folger’s horrific murder.

R422 but by rumored accounts, it's the very wealthy Folgers, not the Tates, who are exerting the most pressure to keep all of The Family behind bars.

R411 Well we do know Leslie’s been off the scene for a while now.

[quote] and has been so awhile

Oh, dear.

Houten is in jail for murder not for her politics. The insistence of stupidity of some of these posters makes one think the dropping of an anvil on their heads might help to dissipate the fog in their brains.

Disappointing that someone does not understand what political prisoners are.

What are they teaching kids today?

Leslie should ask Amnesty International for help. A better move would be for her to shut her whiney mouth and feel blessed for not being gassed.

What is it about this case that makes old fraus apoplectic with rage?

^The, uh, vicious inhumanity of the slaughter that was involved, although there is no "rage" here. If anybody deserved to die for a crime, these folks fit the bill perfectly. Senseless, cold-blooded, savagery. It's hard to think of anything in the past 50 years that even comes close, as an act committed personally (as opposed to the mechanical death inflicted, say, on 9/11/01). If you wanted to campaign for the humanitarian release of people in jail for crimes, there are many, many others you could be yammering on about that would have more justification. This woman deserves to be where she is and she's not getting out.

It seems that some people are really quite comfortable with murder; they only get exercised at the notion of punishment. It appears to be some strange form of cowardice, an inability to accept the existence of evil.

That, I think, is what makes them stupid, R426. Then they hear some loathsome idiot call the incarcerated "political prisoners" or some other convenient appellation, and they run with that. Oh good, they think--now I know what to say. Ooh, I'm so sophisticated.

And when they encounter the rest of us in a chat room like this one, they are reminded of how moronic they seem to us, and they go on the attack, calling anyone they disagree with "old," or "Boris," or the rest of it.

And, having gone this far, let me make a few more enemies: in all my life, I have never met a good-looking guy who wanted any of the Mansons to be freed. That opinion appears to go with a loser identity.

And there it is.

R429 That the most famous victim was a women pregnant with child. If not for Sharon Tate, they wouldn't care less and this crime would be forgotten.

Not that it's here or there, but the word on the internet "street" right now, re these murderers, is that P. Krenwinkel has cancer and does not have long to live...

Leslie...pay no attention to these heartless motherfuckers. We'll get you out.

The Manson family had some good ideas.

Don't judge me.

It's honestly refreshing that the Folger family is so insanely wealthy and also quiet and discreet. No reality show, no weddings in Vogue. They just live...very very well.

Like what r435?

Tex and Patricia are the ones the Folgers have the biggest beef against. Patricia is the one who chased Abigail down and started stabbing her on the lawn. She may have finished the killing, or Tex may have come over and finished Abigail for her. Stories vary.

I wonder if Tex has tea bagged John Waters. A match made in hell.

Watson killed Steven Parent. Krenwinkel and Watson both stabbed Abigail Folger to death. I think all three, Susan Atkins, Krenwinkel and Watson went to town on Voytek Frykowski. He was shot, stabbed and bludgeoned to death. Jay Sebring was shot and kicked in the face by Watson. He was also stabbed seven times; I'm not sure by who. Susan Atkins bragged that she was the one who killed Sharon Tate, saying she told her as she begged for her life "Look bitch, I have no mercy for you." Later she denied killing her and said Tex did it. I think he later took the blame for it ( to make himself seem honest I suppose) but I don't think he alone killed Sharon Tate. I'm pretty sure Atkins stabbed her, too. She got Sharon's blood on her hand and tasted it. She told a prison inmate "Wow, what a trip! To taste death and yet give life!" That doesn't make sense but nothing the Manson family did made any sense.

Hey Leslie, remember me?

R429, What is it about this case that makes young males so weak-sistered over Manson's old murderous Frauen?

R441 Christ, put a warning on that!

Why would she remember that R441? She wasn't there.

[quote]Oh, dear.

How sweet, a shut-in old queen looking for grammatical errors in a nitwit Manson thread.

R366 you're full of shit. She was 18 years old, and under the influence of drugs and a madman who had a long history of being able to get people to do terrible things for him. She was too young, and absolutely not in her right mind.

There is NO reason to continue to keep this woman locked up. It's no longer about justice. Charles Manson is the one who should be locked up until he dies, and that has now happened. Keeping Leslie Van Houten in prison is petty and pointless.

Any other woman who'd done EXACTLY what she did, without the case being famous, would've been out in 1985. It is unfair and unjust. The infamy of a case should have nothing to do with the punishment. Justice is supposed to be blind. Certainly not the case here.

[quote]Why would she remember that [R441]? She wasn't there.

Sorry R444. I stand corrected. Here you go. This is the work of Ms. Leslie Van Houten:

R446 Is John Waters.

[quote]There is NO reason to continue to keep this woman locked up. It's no longer about justice. Charles Manson is the one who should be locked up until he dies,

Actually Manson never killed anyone. You have your facts totally backwards. He was more of a life coach for fucked what was always inside evil fucked up souls like Van Houten.

^Let's not speak too quickly here, there is loads of evidence that Manson himself did indeed kill several people. It's true he wasn't in on the stabbing and shooting at Cielo Drive or at the LaBianca killings, he just instigated them. Subsequent investigation over the years indicates that there is strong evidence that *someone* went back to the Tate house after the first set of killers had left that night, and they tampered with the scene of the crime in several significant ways (esp re staging of the bodies, re all the "extra" blood on the front porch, the rope, etc.). The evidence for this is compelling and easily found online. It is believed that the ones who went back there were T. Watson and Manson himself.

R446 Yes we know she's a political prisoner. You have been repeating that ad nauseum. Now go to the Norma Shearer thread and discuss her wandering eye where your idiocy will be vastly more appreciated though no more helpful.

[quote] She was 18 years old, and under the influence of drugs and a madman who had a long history of being able to get people to do terrible things for him. She was too young, and absolutely not in her right mind.

So, it wasn't her fault, huh? Shut up, you raging loony twat. She committed one of the most heinous murders of all time. She wasn't on drugs when she did it. She did it of her own free will. Nobody forced her to do anything. She did it because she WANTED to. So shut your flapping pie hole. stupid.

"The infamy of a case should have nothing to do with the punishment." R446

Yeah, I guess you could tell that to the Governor after he declines to grant her release. Maybe the Free Leslie people could join the Innocence Project that works to free people WRONGFULLY convicted. They are a lot more deserving of release than Leslie.

I am a member of the gays who want to see Leslie gassed. Anyone want to join?

[quote] I am a member of the gays who want to see Leslie gassed. Anyone want to join?

Count me in!

She looks like Emily Litella.

R446, If any other woman had done exactly what LVH did, she, too, your imaginary Other, would be as infamous.

Pregnant woman, WTH cares?! One less mouth to feed.

Here's the end of a Comment to a blog piece devoted to LVH recently on The Manson Family Blog (which is a fascinating site about these crimes, the 1960s, and C Manson's tangential contacts with crime through the end of the 1900's; The whole page on LVH, from October 12, re her involvement in the killings is worth reading. The Comment below pretty much sums up my own feelings about LVH:

"Do I think that Leslie Van Houten will resume stabbing her way through society if released? Well no, that seems quite unlikely. But does it bother me that she is still paying the price for these crimes? No. And sometimes yes. But usually no."

If she had gotten the death penalty like she was supposed to she wouldn't have made a life long career of being a pain in the ass with her breast beating remorse vaudeville routine.

Oh, really, OP? Is "now" the time? 😂😂😂

[quote] Besides, all she would do is go on welfare and food stamps

Oh, I don't know about that. Leslie was quite the singer. I think a record deal could be in the works!

^Their version of the Mama's & Papas' hit "12:30" is really BETTER than the original: "Young girls are coming to the Canyon..." It was practically WRITTEN for them. And yes, Mama Cass AND Papa John Philips both have real, tangential connections to the Manson Family. Groovy, man!!

She was named after Leslie Howard and he was always very embarrassed by that.

Just get a load of what they replaced the Cielo Drive house with...it's for rent too, ONLY $250,000 a month. If Miss Van Houten's dreams come true and she IS let out of the slammer, maybe she'd like to sign a lease:

Frightful, but the pool is nice and the views are lovely.

Isn’t the owner the producer of Full House? As if he didn’t have enough to be embarrassed about,

I've heard they can't give that house away. They not only replaced the old house, the new house itself has been gut-renovated, and still nobody will stay there.

Perma bad vibes.

^The internet indicates as much, but I don't see how the dough made by that show alone would enrich someone to the point of being able to afford this monstrosity. It appears to be the biggest mansion in the entire area nowadays. Yes, it IS truly hideous on the inside, such a contrast to the comfortable secluded house where the murders took place, on the same site 50+ years ago. (Not YOU, Leslie, not YOUR murders).

If the replacement house had been beautiful it might have had a better chance of keeping an owner. If the house had been as ugly as it is but on a NON-notorious lot, it might have kept an owner. But a monstrosity of a mansion on a piece of land that is STILL drawing bad vibes and looky-loos 50 years after the fact has no fucking chance at all.

What little furniture there is, is all the COLOR OF BLOOD. Just a coincidence, I'm sure...teehee.

On Google Maps, the streetview does not go up that long cul de sac to the Polanski-Tate murder house gate. It DOES go up the OTHER ones off of Cielo, however.

It would take you an HOUR to close all the curtains on that house nowadays. And yes, you would have to do it EVERY night.

You can watch TV in the HOTTUB!!!!!

You couldn’t pay me to live or buy that house. Nothing should’ve been built on that property. It should have been just gone back to nature and nothing built on it.

Something as horrific as those murders takes a long long long time for people to forget. Shit, Jack the Ripper is still talked about. And that happened over 100 years ago.

All automatic, r472. All automatic.

[quote] Shit, Jack the Ripper is still talked about.

The guy from Three’s Company?

10050 Cielo Drive was a charming house with stunning views, but I'd never have wanted to live there after Manson's people did what they did. The house there now has none of that charm but still the cursed lot. No thanks.

The Blitz destroyed much of the East End where the Jack the Ripper murders took place, which is probably why a lot of the spookiness has gone. You can still see roughly where the murders took place, but the locations have changed so much. One of the murder sites is now a decorative flower bed along a road, another is in a parking garage, etc.

^^DL never disappoints.

Good shit.

This mugshot of Susan Atkins is certainly unnerving. Is it for real?

r480 no that's definitely fake. Doesn't really even look like Susan Atkins. Her mouth was not that wide.

That's a scary looking woman at R480, but I don't think it's Susan Atkins. I've seen scary photos of Atkins, though. She was a pure sociopath.

I recently watched the Mary Harron film Charlie Says which is like a defence of LVH as innocent victim though it shows that she volunteered to go to the LaBianca killing. Funnily enough the actress playing Leslie is quite a fug.

How did SHE get rid of her Nazi forehead tattoo? Do they have specialists in the slammer for that kind of thing?

The mug shot of Atkins in R480 is most definitely genuine. Look it up, sheesh.

Here are Leslie and Pat Krenwinkel as "the other" Golden Girls:

r438 Considering they jail dealers for murder for the deaths of their clients these days, it's incredibly ironic the Folgers are now the ones leading the campaign to deny release. Mrs. Tate, I could see.

r450 And why would they go back? If Manson was that concerned about doing the job a certain way, why didn't he go with, or at least hang around nearby? Going back to stage the scene makes no sense. It's hard to fathom the thought process.

“I was in prison for 25 years. I have almost no intelligence. Doesn’t it make any sense to anybody that maybe I wasn’t the leader?” -Charles Manson 1994

R487, I don't understand your point about R438 at all. Re R450, there is a LOT of evidence that SOMEONE did indeed go to the scene of the Tate house after the murders had been committed, the same night, and "fiddle" with things at the scene (moving the bodies around, for one thing). It is presumed that it was Manson, and that he had at least one other with him, maybe 2 others, likely Bruce Davis and perhaps a woman. The crimes happened 50 years ago and there has been a HUGE amount of investigation of these crimes after the verdicts were rendered in the trials. You can easily find most of the "research" online. Several of the people on those blogs are people who were in on the original investigations of the crimes, as lawyers and law enforcement, they are not just mumbling paranoids wearing tin-foil hats...Why Manson wanted to go see what had happened has been investigated at length. Might not make sense to YOU, but the info is out there if you're curious, and the consensus is that the physical evidence does not make sense unless someone went there and tampered with it, after the fact. Manson was CERTAINLY cunning, and Manson was CERTAINLY "the leader" of that group of deranged low-lifes. - R450.

It's been a very long time and I cannot remember where I read it. So, maybe somebody can confirm that, "Young girls are coming to the Canyon", the 45 single was playing on the stereo on repeat at the Cielo Drive house. And that Charlie or one of the accomplices staged that after the other family members had done their deed. Remember, elder persons? You'd put a record on a leave the arm up and pulled back and the record would repeat?

[quote] How did SHE get rid of her Nazi forehead tattoo?

She never had one. During the trial she carved an X in her forehead like Manson did, but she never got a tattoo.

None of those involved in these murders should ever be released from prison.

Just because someone gets old doesn't mean that they are no longer dangerous. 70+ year olds still rape and murder.

She's an insult to DataLoungers everywhere.

She's 72, but looks 82.

R489 - I've been reading over a lot of stuff about the scene of those murders just lately (mostly inspired by this thread), and there has been no mention made, that I've seen, that any music was playing in the house when the crimes were first discovered (by the housekeeper, Winifred Chapman), on that Saturday morning. I don't see anything online right now associating the crime scene with the song (which is actually called "12:30"). I'm the one who made the joke about the song at R463, up above...It's not to say that it's not correct, but I don't see anything about it anywhere right now.

Does music playing in the background make it more or less of a crime?

Depending on the song, it could be more.

She's now a sweet old lady. She'll invite the paper boy in for a refreshing glass of soda and he'll end up in the basement freezer.

R485, THAT IS NOT SUSAN ATKINS.

It is an actress named Devanny Pinn, portraying SDA in 2014's "House of Manson." Ryan Kiser played Charlie.

SDA mugshot:

When she can bring the people that SHE MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD BACK .... . THEN she should be considered for release .

Re R489, I just noticed a reference on a blog page that the houseboy, William Garretson, who allegedly heard nothing that night (a claim hotly disputed), indicated that he had been listening to music all night long in the adjacent guest host on the other side of the pool, and mentioned having been listening to The Doors and the Mamas and the Papas...

The University of Kentucky has a wonderful cheerleading squad. I wonder if they would hire Leslie?

[quote] Here are Leslie and Pat Krenwinkel as "the other" Golden Girls:

I would totally watch a remake of the Golden Girls with LVH and PK! Maybe they could bring in 'ol Squeaky. Who else could round out the foursome?

R306

[quote] Perhaps we should organize a bake sell in order to pay for Leslie's make over.

Oh Dear. Oh Dear.

Van Houten's excuse for her actions, aside from saying she was only a little girl on drugs and under the influence of Manson, was that she didn't REALLY kill anybody. She just stabbed Rosemary LaBianca's dead body, over and over and over again. Rosemary LaBianca did have postmortem stab wounds but that doesn't prove Van Houten didn't stab her while she was still alive. I think Van Houten did stab Rosemary LaBianca while she was still alive. She, Tex Watson, and Patricia Krenwinkel were all out for blood that night. They were all very eager murderers.

Watson & Krenwinkel were extremely viscious.

Watson fathers kids in prison & found religion. His actions were the worst of them; and all were horrible.

R497, thank you for clarifying! I'd seen that photo floating around for years and didn't know if it was real/where it was from.

She's lucky to still be alive.

L.A. looked like a crazy place back then

🤫 The houseboy was rumored to have developed a fondness for weed and alcohol. That why he supposedly heard nothing.

They're only remorseful when they're caught.

Oh honey, only back then, R508?

Leslie is as remorseful as a shark. I think it's about time somebody just cements her in her cell so she stops annoying everyone.

The reason this massacre remains relevant is that a group of young, successful, and well-to-do people were still slaughtered in a relatively remote home in the hills of an affluent part of Los Angeles. Nobody felt safe after that.

The reason this massacre remains relevant is because a group of young, successful, well-to-do people were slaughtered while living in a relatively hidden home in the hills of affluent Los Angeles. Nobody felt safe after that.

Oops. Didn’t know which sounds better.^^

[quote] Watson & Krenwinkel were extremely viscious.

Oh dear.

Probably not the best look when you go into court claiming you are not part of a cult of murders.

Has there ever been a group of people that all joined in on a murdering spree like that in the US since then? Serial killers usually work alone, I think that's one of the reasons this has burned into history.

R518 Good point. The only other similar crimes that come to mind but they were committed against people at the lower economic place in society were the 'Snowtown killing's " in South Australia. Though those happened over a number of years and were also for economic gain, not that people in social services benefits in Australia get very much.

There have been cases of couples going to on the rampage but they are pretty rare too.

R516 Sad and weak. You were all alone for Thanksgiving. But you did find typos on DL. But is it "Dear" or "dear"? Your murky liquid variant is your own bed-ridden discharge, and you're no deer.

Would you want your Mother or your Granny hanging out with their new neighbor Leslie?

R485-" The mug shot of Atkins in [R480] is most definitely genuine. Look it up, sheesh."

Yup, that is Sadie tweaked out on methamphetamine.

R448 that's the greatest thing anyone's ever said to me, but unfortunately I'm not.

The prison Leslie is housed in is known as a posh, super nice prison . “ CI Wonderful “ is what the inmates call it. It was especially nice in the 70s and 80s through the mid 90s. They had carnivals on site, Leslie attended classes with the outside world it’s on YouTube . The grounds are similar to a small college campus with trees and mountains surrounding it. They have a cosmetology school, yoga classes, movie nights etc . It’s a camp prison . In fact, there is a picture of Arnold Schwarzenegger with Susan Atkins for a fitness group he facilitated.

She's a Minor Threat.

Parole? So she can go get herself into another cult and kill people?

I've always thought she was the prettiest of the Manson women.

She and Ruth Ann Moorehouse were Charlie's most valuable whores. Remember, Charlie's main worldview was that of a vicious pimp. Leslie and Ruth Ann were valuable because their bodies could be traded for influence with bikers, entertainment industry people, etc.

If she wants out the fair thing to do is earn it. May her work and pay restitution to the victims families or relatives. You can argue all you want she paid her debt to society, but she hasn't paid a dime to the victims families. Two very different things.

Pay restitution? How? The only thing she can do is stay in prison and help others.

R529 has no idea what they're talking about.

The cunt's bid for freedom has been blocked by the court.

Good. Live and long and painful life you cunt Leslie.

[Quote]Newsom argued Van Houten poses an “unreasonable danger” if released.

Nonsense. What a mockery.

Oh yeah she’s sorry now. Not sorry when she was all itching to go out and stab up sum folk then singing and talkin shit in court. I hope she eats a big black puss tonight in the pen where she belongs.

r533, if that's his grounds, it should go to the SCOTUS. That's ridiculous.

Newsom did the right thing! Thank you Gavin. I hope you run for President, got my vote. Common sense justice from progressive leaders.

Replies like r526 are an example of how far this site has been infested and overtaken by right wing trolls. Old DL would have some LGBT who wanted her to serve life, but even the most overwrought of flouncing Mme Alexander Doll queens wouldn't be all "she's an evil murderer who will go on a killing spree!!OMG!"

And the court didn't block anything, they just refused to hear the case. I suspect an ambitious judge who was smart enough not to touch this on political grounds.

I don't know what you're going on about r537 but r526 is a mild, slightly snarky response, and there is absolutely no indication that they're a right wing troll just from that post.

Who cares?

R533, Do you think she is incapable of violence because of her age? Because you believe she's "changed"? Because she looks sorrowful enough to you?

Because you believe that there should be an automatic parole after a prison term of some length decided by you?

What are your criteria for releasing Leslie Van Houten, eager participant in arguably the most notorious murder spree in the latter half of the 20th C.?

I don't think you have to be right wing to have an aversion to any of the Manson family walking free. I would assume that leaving them in prison to serve out their life sentences isn't controversial to most Californians.

Newsom is not a right winger. Probably the most left wing progressive, liberal Gov California has had in decades. Just because you don't like what he does or the people who support them do not make they right wing tolls. Get a grip. This may come as a surprise to you, but progressives have common sense and reason not to let out remorseful attention seeking murders out of jail just because they are old and have a fan base.

As long as there are enraged Boomer voters, no governor is letting her out. No one else younger cares.

R543, no one else younger cares because they're too busy texting their friends about meaningful things like... if it happens on their phone, it's real. If it happens in the real world, it's just a rumour.

Because of the severity of her crimes she should never be released, no matter how "good" she behaves or how many degrees she earns or any of that shit. Jesus Christ, she was sentenced to death! And she got a reprieve from that. She doesn't deserve any more mercy. None of the Manson killers do.

Her crime was no more severe than most other murders.

She didn't get a reprieve. The death penalty law she was sentenced under was ruled unconstitutional. It applied to anyone sentenced under that law.

Van Houten and her cohorts will hopefully stay right where they are. She knew of all the killings the night before and was excited to be included in the second wave of terror. So she knew what she was about to do.

Pre-stabbing, Lesie helped tie a towel wrapped with a lamp cord around Mr.s LaBianca's head and laughed at the way her victim staggered around. Apparently, Leslie found it humorous that Rosemary LaBianca, whose hands were also bound, was upset from the dying screams of her husband, Leno, in the next room. After stabbing Rosemary God knows how many times, Van Houten took blood from her victim to scrawl a message to the police. She raided the refrigerator and then showered as if she were in her own home. Directly after the slaughter, the Manson clan rewarded themselves by going out for milkshakes together.

Van Houten has never apologized directly to her victims families. And at this point what would it mean? Fuck her.

I always wrap towels and lamp cords around people who inconvience me!

Don't worry about Tex or Leslie or Patricia. The powerful Folger family, who have a lot of political sway in their home state of California, will make sure the main Manson killers never get out. They're all going to die in prison just like Charlie and Susan did.

[quote]Her crime was no more severe than most other murders.

Irrelevant, she was sentenced to death. She escaped death because of a shift in California death penalty, but the JURY thought she should be put to death and never walk the streets again. She should shut up and thank her lucky stars she got to live this long with free meals and plenty of free time to think. Did she ever try working in prison or was that just another take she was all about exploiting.

Tough tiity Leslie. Rot in pieces.

[quote] Her crime was no more severe than most other murders.

You are out of your fucking mind. They broke into the home of people they did not even know and it was not because they intended to rob them. They butchered the two people involved. They kept stabbing Rosmary LaBianca even after she was dead. Leno LaBianca had "war" carved into his stomach. a carving fork stuck in his stomach and a steak knife stuck in his throat. The wrote in blood on the walls. And they fixed themselves a snack from the refrigerator after they were done. There aren't very many murders like THAT, you stupid fucking idiot.

Rosemary Labianca was a big 'ol frau

Some of you could find better causes to focus your outrage on instead of the continued imprisonment of a person who really should be dead for her crimes. Animal cruelty maybe? Child labor? Hate crimes?

Why are you so invested in this case? It’s not like this was a miscarriage of justice. She was a vicious murderer.

I bet Leslie eats asshole too. I want her to write a book about her forced lesbianism.

[quote] There aren't very many murders like THAT, you stupid fucking idiot.

R552, you poor naive dear. Yes there are many many murders that are like that and many way worse. But stay in your little outraged bubble of ignorance. You'll feel safer there.

R556, you poor pathetic moron. If you think that Manson murders were just some ordinary, run of the mill crimes then you are truly fucked in the head. Truly fucked. And your fondness for Leslie Van Houten makes you even more of a loser asshole. Braying in support of one of the Manson killers! You poor, poor, maladjusted fool.

Hey R565. She will be paroled to you. She will live with you, you will pay for all her bills upkeep medical. If any of the family members sue, you will pay the bill.

Pay up or shut up, Put your money where your mouth so dumbly flaps

Reply 556, Yeah, she can live with you. Leslie will make you her bitch.

If she would just do something with that hair of hers.

This psychopathic cunt always sounded completely rehearsed in her interviews.

R556 Go suck John Water's pencil dick and cry together.

She's not going anywhere. Newsom is the most liberal politician to be in charge in California in decades. If he is against it, never going to happen. Eventually the pendulum swings and when it does, a more conservative governor will be in charge. He or she is absolutely going to be on the side of "law and order" to keep her locked up forever!

She's done like the knife she stabbed into someones body.

I wonder if she will be buried in a common grave so people can go spit on it?

Sorry Leslie. Close but no cigar. Rot in hell bitch!

They should at least let her out to get some work done. She needs some lifting and botox.

[quote] She needs some lifting and botox.

She's not going to get work done. She needs to look at pitiful as possible to gain sympathy, hence her lank gray hair, prune face and old lady glasses. But I bet if she were out she'd perk up considerably. That's the thing: she she got out she would probably lead an enviable life. John Waters would escort her to premieres and parties and she'd hang out with celebrities like Johnny Depp. She most certainly does not deserve to be hobnobbing with the rich and famous and if she got out I think that's exactly what would happen. A lot of would take pity on her and try to "help" her. Hollywood morons.

I can think of few people who would love to do some serious work on her face. They'd be lining up..

Side note to Waters, as he plays he r'Walker' to all those glittery events..she above video. Also if she does get paroled its to your house John. or shut your flappy trap. If you don't put your $$where your mouth is you are just full of what Divine ate at the end of Pin Flamingoes.

Almost to 600. Anything new to add?

Governor Newsom has officially blocked her parole.

R569 Aww John did we hurt your itty bitty fweelings!

She's not publicly laughing at her victims now, is she? Evil, fucking bitch!

But what about her coaching cheerleader camp?

This cunt must rot in prison.

I was dissing all of you, R571.