Why don't I have any friends?

Same boat. I will watch this thread with interest.

I just moved for a job and left all my friends. Im sad - I really had it made. I had no choice, I was really hit hard in the job market. New job is great, really good money - but no friends. Very lonely. I was used to going out 3 nights a week, great events, parties -Now Im all alone. Older guy here too. I even went out a few times by myself. Why are people so fucking cliquey? I went from Las Vegas to fucking Sacramento. CA. Fuck - the things we do for money..

rats at yo popeye's!

My husband and I have each other, as well as our blood relatives. Other than that, we don’t have any “friends”. More people in your life just means more drama. Should something happen to my husband (who I’ve been with for 35 years), I’ll pretty much be done.

I have no friends either. I've analyzed this ad nauseum. I feel like the key to making and maintaining friendships is "common life experiences". You have to find people who share a common interest and build a friendship from there. I had "High School friends" and "College friends" and "Professional friends" but those die away if you don't maintain them.

Hetero dudes often become friends with guys who are the husbands of their wives' friends. Family and kids are their common interest. They vacation together and go camping, etc. Joining a church is about "Community" not religion.

So, figure out what your "hobby" is and look for friends who share your interest.

(My buddy was always into Harley Davidson Motorcycles but could never afford one. He bought his first one when he was 50. Once he did, he found this whole network of people who love Harley's and made friends through various weekend Biker groups.)

I’m in the same boat, OP. My therapist wants me to find a book club to join, to meet new people. I love to read, but I hate forced interaction with strangers.

Emotionally stunted, perhaps?

I think as people get older, they become less interested in making new friends. I don’t think it’s because they already have enough friends but because the daily grind of train, work, sleep makes friendships difficult to maintain. Have you thought about taking a class? It’s a great way to get to know others.

It's really hard as you get older. Most guys are hetero, married and under pressure to shun you as a friend.

It's also true that if you're not married or in a relationship and don't have kids, then you've got a lot of time on your hands others don't have.

My close friends throughout my life all live in different parts of the country.

Because people are selfish and self-centered cunts. They don't want friendship, they want to network. If you're of no use to them, they cannot be bothered.

followers of your dirty twitter don't count, r10.

OP and others in OP’s boat, the suggestions to join a group are spot on I think. Pick something you’re interested in or would like to try (e.g. a new sport, walking group, volunteering, whatever). If you’re in a big enough city/town look for a gay version of the group, or gay meet up groups.

It’s right that generally the older we get the less room we have for new friends but not everyone is in that position. Relationship break ups, people moving for work, etc all mean it’s not just single 20-somethings open to new friends.

I know that doesn’t address the ‘why don’t I have any friends?’ question and it’s more a suggestion on how to make some. To your actual question, have you tried therapy to discuss some of that if you think it’s been a lifelong problem?

I dont have any friends either, but it's partly my fault. I could reach out more to the people I do know...I think the pandemic made introverts even more isolated and introverted.

I enjoy letter writing and have joined a group of other like-minded writers online. So far I have connected with one person and we have written back and forth. There is no pressure and it's nice receiving a personal letter instead of just bills in the mail. I know i sound old-fashioned but it's something I enjoy.

#metoo

Travelled, moved around the world, met at least half of it, joined social activities, volunteered. And here I am. No friends. No family. Alone in the world.

A huge part of it is a lack of commonality with others, i.e., lifestyle choices, interests, very different upbringings, including abusive parents. Being around people from happy homes, who reminisce fondly about warm childhood experiences is extremely painful. And due bad choices I've made about people, where I ended up exploited, and, as R11 sagely pointed out, used/abused, I decided alone was the preferable alternative. And as several posters have pointed out, the older you get, the less likely you are to suffer bullshit.

Actually, being onlline affords me the opportunity to finally find commonality with others, the social group I never had. I can reach out, learn, interact, find people with similar interests, all in a safer-for-me environment. And people are a lot more open anonymously online than they would be up close and personal, as my post and this thread illustrates.

No gay jazzercise classes around where y'all live?

R15 Yep. Is it really so awful not having friends, given that relationships usually never turn out like you expect, often after you've spent a lot of time developing them.

I have found a few new friends by being more open to people who have common interests but are quite a bit older or younger than me. I'm in late middle age, when people have finally sent the last kid out the door but now have grandkids, etc. The older/retired and younger people generally are more footloose/not tied down.

[quote]when people have finally sent the last kid out the door but now have grandkids, etc.

Ceased to exist for people who were involved raising children. Children left home, developed their own lives, suddenly, people I hadn't heard from in years contacted me looking for activity. The nanosecond the grandchildren came along, I again ceased to exist.

OP. become an alcoholic and then join AA. You'll have a group of men to have breakfast with every Sunday morning until you die! (...of old age!)

R19 But wait. The grandkids will soon reach that age where they want to hang out with other kids not grandma and grandpa. And you'll get another long-time-no-see message.

After all these years, I now realize that most people don't really want deep, one-on-one friendships. They want to text, do things in groups, post photos for all to see, etc.

Also, old friends can start taking a friendship for granted. I'm dealing with this right now. (Old friend talking in stream-of-consciousness fashion, texting when bored, etc.) It's more than that: increased rudeness, ingratitude, etc.

I’ve tried to maintain connections with people the last couple of years but tired out by the endless online drama of COVID and politics. Everything feels contentious, even things that shouldn’t. I’m also sick of people who only text when they are bored at work, and outside of that, you never hear from them. Most of the time after work I don’t have the energy to keep another social ball in the air, so if I text you and you don’t respond, the ball is in your court. After a few days of no response, I delete the conversation.

It’s unfortunate, but the pandemic has helped me to rely less on superficial interactions/friendships and devote more time to taking care of myself—exercise, reading, minimizing, etc. Mother and stepdad are also Trump loons/medical conspiracy theorists so limit conversations to once a month. It feels very lonely but I know it’s not just me.

I just got tired of hearing all the drama. Especially my age group. Late 40s. I have a few friends but nothing like I used to. And that’s really fine with me. Most of them were alcoholics. My old friends. And I’m just too old to be doing that bullshit anymore. I promised myself I wasn’t going to end up like my folks. So if that means I have to be alone more then so be it.

I have only one longtime acquaintance (ex-partner) who I talk to on the phone about 4 times a year, and email occasionally. That's it. He keeps telling me to 'accumulate a group of friends' and I have to just agree so he'll shut up. But the truth is I gave up looking a long ago. And I have a weird schedule so there's no time for friends anyway.

It’s weird, but even if when I try to joke around with folks or share music, films, etc—people aren’t into it. Not sure what’s to blame, but it feels like the sociopolitical climate has sucked all the air out of the room. Even sports are tainted by all the antivax players. Comedians are plagued by cancel culture. It just all feels very dystopian.

1. It's harder to make friends the older you get. There are lots of reasons why that is. I think some of it is that you end up with a strong sense of self and you have less time and tolerance for bullshit. A lot of people reach a point in life, where they look their left and see a friend that they don't even know why they're friends with anymore.

2. Join a club or an activity where like minded people are. I think that's the easiest way to make friends when you're older.

3. A lot of people make friends in their childhoods because they're in a similar situation and that includes proximity. That carries throughout school. That happens in college. It happens when you make friends that you work with at work. Of course many of those are situational friendships. Friends you made at one job may not be your friends when you're at your next one.

4. Sometimes, and I hate to say this, it is you. If you're a person that has never had any friends then maybe talk to a therapist about that.

5. Sometimes people have a different expectation of what friendship should be and that's something you'd have to talk to your friends about. I don't mind the texting, "stream of consciousness" stuff. When my friends go out several nights a week, I go out one of them. I used to have friends I'd stay up all night talking to. I can't do that anymore. I need my rest. I hate group chats. If you want to hang out then just text me and tell me. If I leave a party early, it's not because I hate you it's because I want to eat, sleep, I'd rather be home watching tv, etc.

I’m 61. Almost all of my friends are from college or earlier.

I feel like it's a real failing and I've had friends - usually two or three close ones - all my life, but after getting togehter, I find myself absolutely exhausted from the chit-chat - and sometimes drenched in sweat and trembling.

And these are people I've known for years, I like them, they like me -- it's just an instinctive thing or so strongly learned as a nervous, shy kid in school who was bullied a moderate amount. Usually not the class 'whipping boy' but sometimes -- and always jabbed at, off and on. School just sucks - I think the only place like it must be prison and I'm not sure even that is as bad.

Anyway, I find having "game nights" works better. I need something to DO around people - not just sit there and go over the same damn topics again and again - what has that ogre Trump done now? what will happen with the environment - oh we're all doomed because of those goddamned.... well, I just come away not only exhausted but riled up about the world. But how can you NOT talk about that? What do people talk about otherwise -- their flower gardens? (don't have one) - the latest Netflix thing (I don't watch them) yada yada.

And then the occasional blow-ups... it's just not worth it. Hell can be other people. Solitude can be bliss, especially in this day and age with the actual whole world at your fingertips.

Too bad everyone in this thread can't get together and be friends. I've enjoyed reading the posts and feel we are alone together in the same boat.

It’s because you smell, OP.

I'm hearing a lot of complaining about others here, and a lot of excuses for not having friends. Maybe just look inward -- it could be about you and not them. Or, perhaps you just don't want to bother with dealing with others? If lonely, why not start with enjoying your own company and exploring new things?

Doesn't sound like many are open to meeting others or doing the work to create and foster new or existing friendships. Do you listen to your friends or acquaintances? Are you interested in their lives and experiences -- do you ask questions, or just judge and/or talk about yourself mostly?

"And I have a weird schedule so there's no time for friends anyway". So they have to act based on your schedule?

"More people in your life just means more drama". Mostly agree. I try to interact more with the lower-maintenance ones, but a few of the others can be at least wildly entertaining.

r24, good for you -- keeping toxic people and train wrecks away. But certainly not everyone is like that, no? I've developed a higher tolerance for "eccentric" but a lower tolerance for those who try to suck me into the problems that some have mostly created for themselves. It does take patience to keep an open mind sometimes. People naturally encounter problems in life, but not everyone is toxic.

I've lived in the same huge metro area for 60 years and have acquired and let go of so many friends and relatives. It does take time and effort to maintain certain relationships. My closest, longtime friends are the easiest to deal with and they're the most honest and humble. There are no pretensions and few expectations.

What r29 said about not getting together and ruminating about the same political horrors (and yes, things absolutely ARE horrific) ad nauseum and just going for a walk or playing cards on occasion instead.

Will be retiring soon and wonder what it will be like to have more time for people. Will it be exhausting? Invigorating? Lonely? Boring? No - I don't find the people I've chosen to get to know to be boring. I'm better at boring myself and being tired; sleep is my best friend. If my friends loose interest in me, it's a big win for my cats.

OP is Brian Cox??????

Having specific interests, taking chances, and being openminded helps. Even though quality is important and it's not about how many you have, I still throw a wide net.

I have no partner or children. My parents aren't going to be around forever, and my sibling is estranged. I'm not good at making friends, but I invest all the energy I can into it. I hold onto the good eggs, admire their positive attributes, and I try to be appreciative of their fellowship as much as possible. I try to keep my expectations low and be understanding, but also honour my needs. I let go of the people where I'm the one doing most of the work, or people who are toxic and the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

I'm also learning that I need to be more diligent about making younger friends, because if I make to 100 (or whatever), the odds are that most of my friends are not going to be around. :(

Good luck. Don't give up.

I find most people are interested in solitary pursuits these days - the internet, gaming, Netflix etc. The more "social" ones are accumulating content to post on their accounts. There are fewer group activities out there for adults to engage in - dances, sports clubs etc. LIfe is made up of work, work, work. I commute three hours a day. Spend 40 hours a week with tiresome people that sap my energy (I have severe social anxiety) . Friendships are another another anxiety I find I can't handle.

[quote] I need something to DO around people - not just sit there and go over the same damn topics again and again - what has that ogre Trump done now?

When I was a kid, my father always told me don't talk to your friends about: money, politics or religion.

I think I inadvertently listened to him.

My friend couldn't understand why people were always annoyed when she'd talk about money. (She's network television rich.)

I generally shy away from political discussion with people I genuinely am friends with. I was in love with a man that was a former Republican once with a few Republican tendencies. He was, of course, one because his parents had been. He kept trying to engage me in discussion about it and I wouldn't bite.

I rarely talk about religion unless the person is open minded enough to at least hear my thoughts on it even if we differ on our thinking.

I agree with the posters who suggested finding friendships through like-minded activities you enjoy. I have met really nice people thru running club, garden club and church (volunteering). Lots of seniors and retirees are involved in these activities and I love talking to them (I’m mid-40s). I think being friendly and open, and asking people more questions than talking about yourself tends to attract people, irrespective of politics, race etc.

That said, many Americans are rude, entitled and selfish, so putting yourself out there you’ll likely meet some real cunts too.

Like minded activities?

Masturbation, big-dicked foot fetish doms

I would recommend activity groups but avoid clubs or organizations. Find something that requires you to just show up and partake in an activity and go home. I did volunteer work before COVID and hit just required me to show up and help.

^it.

As I've gotten older I've realized how rare a real friend is who only loves me for me. The circumstantial friends I had through my former church all dropped me once I was no longer attending. Friends from my younger days in college tend to drift off after awhile unless you put in real effort. I'm considering joining another organization of some kind to try again and just see how it goes. At the very least, it will take me out of some self-imposed isolation. People are certainly selfish and entitled , but I'm hoping for some genuine encounters. If not, I'll consider a cave and a Huskie dog.

It's not just gays.

My uncle is early 60s and divorced, kids are adults and out of the house, and my mom (his sister) worries that he really doesn't have any friends. Most of the guys he knows are married and unless he wants to be a third wheel, it's tough to get them to do something as the wives tend to control the social calendar.

He says he does not mind--he does a lot of entertaining and socializing for work (or did in Before Times) but it's not the same.

I talked to him about it once, he said people are generally not looking to make new friends when they are over 50, that they have a tough enough time keeping up with the friends they have.

Volunteer. I was a Development Director before I ran out of steam and retired early. (Raising money takes a toll after 25 years.) I can guarantee from experience that volunteering is the absolute best way to meet new people.

One organization I worked for had 12 distinct volunteer committees made up (at the time) of more than 900 individuals. Part of my job was to oversee and maintain the bylaws of all the committees. Not only did I see many friendships begin through these committees, but I still have dozens of people who keep in touch with me from that period.

The important thing is to volunteer somewhere that truly interests you. This will give you a head-start on connecting with people who you will probably share commonalities. This is also a way to get out of the house and out of your head. Living inwardly is a guarantee for being alone. Living outwardly promises that you will connect with others.

The link below is a good site to look for a good place to give some of your time .

R32, you sound pretty high maintenance yourself to be giving orders about how to make friends: "I've lived in the same huge metro area for 60 years and [italic]have acquired and let go of so many friends and relatives.[/italic] It does take time and effort to maintain certain relationships. [italic]My closest, longtime friends are the easiest to deal with [/italic] and they're the most honest and humble."

Every person I've known who complained they had no friends did so for a reason and the more I got to know them i could see the reason why. Some people don't know how to be a friend or understand that in order to have friends you also have to be one. Some people don't realise you have to nurture a friendship, and some people are just so impossible, self centered, selfish, opinionated, etc. that people steer clear of them.

Same :(

Most people, I'd say, R45. I'm starting a charity to supply the world with round dining tables, then singles won't throw the numbers off and will get invited.

It's a world for a party of two and other couples and family. Friends keep you company when you're supposed to be out getting that shit sorted. As I get older I find I have fewer friends but of better relationship quality. However, life is pretty lonely overall and making new friends mystifies me, if there's even a way to do it.

Some people also have a huge list of things they want a friend to be and not be, there's no compromising, and they wonder why they're lonely.

I don't really fit in with my age group and younger people aren't interested in hanging around with someone my age. I like group chats, talking online, casual group get-togethers, but I'm 50 and all my peers like Facebook, cable news, and complaining about things full time. Well, I assume that's what they still like, I slowly fell out of touch with all of them because we just didn't have anything to talk about and they wouldn't answer texts and would send emails or leave voice mails telling me to talk to them on FB instead.

it's because everyone is dumping all their friends and acquaintances because the self-help books and blogs tell them to. Even talk therapist are saying this. No one knows how to get along with people anymore. This person is not doing exactly what i want, they side eyed me, they didn't tell me I smarter and more good looking than them. And the response is: OMG, that's so TOXIC.

People who NEED friends have them. People like me tend to drift around alone-ish and that’s okay, too.

If you go to the same places all the time, you will meet people. I have a great number of “regulars”; neighbors, shopkeepers, people who walk their dogs. There’s a plaza outside my building and I see people congregating. The old people sit and talk, and they have a sort of set time that they meet up when the weather permits. The delivery guys find each other. The nannies and their charges meet up for coffee. It’s kind of a beautiful thing to see. Are these enduring and deep friendships? Probably not. But they are friendly and familiar faces, someone who will greet you when they see you and wonder where you’ve been if they don’t.

I’ve gotten to know some of these people because they live in my building and I stop to chat and pet the dogs, admire the babies, bitch about the weather, etc.

I think that sometimes it’s just enough to have these kind of familiar and light friendships that keep us connected but not in any dramatic way. Just a little companionship.

Mid 60s here. I’ve always had very few friends and over the past few years I’ve cut a bunch out of my life. I don’t miss any of them and quite enjoy my own company. I’m good.

I get no greater enjoyment than cutting toxic people from my life, I find it cathartic.

[quote]Why don't I have any friends?

For reasons that are well known to you.

Oprah revealed last week that she doesn't have many friends, only three, Three! She's fuckin Oprah! So all those celebrities and parties etc. are just business. The friends she named as Gayle obviously, Maria Shriver, and Bob Greene. No Meghan and Harry, no Julia Roberts, Obama, Tina Turner, et. al, just three! Fuck she must have put some noses outta joint!

It's really hard to make friends in midlife because everybody's so busy with middle aged stuff. Even if you do connect with somebody you're probably not both going to have much time to hang out together, and that's really what makes friendships possible. And yeah, people are preoccupied and worried and stressed and that's not conducive to opening up to new people. The good news is that when you get older and the pace of life slows down you'll find people looking around for things to do and wanting company.

Ok, my take as a person that actually finds himself surprising lol with about 20 to 25 close to very good friends and some other distant friends. I say surprisingly because i am an shy at an initial phase and have also had difficulty making new friends:

Situational friends can develop to close friends. I ‘ve had close friends who i worked with and kept a few, long after college or common work has ended.

Unlike most here, you don’t have to have a lot of common interest with friends. I love to read and only a few of my friends like to read, for instance. But this help initially.

Gay relations and even one night stands can develop to friends as well.

I find two main things are essential: you have to be interested in your friends. And they must be interested in you. Want to know about their lives, their changes, their personalities, their families . I find people, generally, interesting. You must be curious and, honestly, be a bit of a gossip. Be emphatic as well. This is not for everyone.

Secondly, and more importantly, you must invest in your friends. Take time with them, call them on their birthdays, ask about their lives, arrange time to be with them if a lot of time has passed. This is harder than it sounds. Many times i dragged myself out of the house to attend a birthday party or a dinner I didn’t much care to go. Only rarely did i ever regretted this.

As a single, middle age man with no kids, i value my friendships, but realize i have time to maintain them. Not everything is good and there are rough patches. In order to maintain friends you also have to forgive and disregard things. You have to also realize that friendships are difficult to make and easy to break. So work on that.

Good luck, hope this helps.

What sort of expectations do you have of friends? I have known people who bemoan the lack of friendships, but also are quick to judge, have high and very specific expectations of other people, and cannot accept any sort of personal failings in others. It’s possible you’re doing something similar without being aware of it.

You only need about three or four good friends. Few Americans have that. Even fewer straight men have that. I have several straight male friends with wives and kids who I talk to (and rarely actually see) maybe four or five times a year. I am always surprised when they saw I am one of their closest friends -- and perhaps their only confidant. I don't consider them nearly as close -- how could I, given our limited time together? But I assume that with their work, their wives, their kids, etc, they just have no place for friends in their life.

Here's an interesting study, which I won't link because it goes to Fox.

Forty-five percent of adults say they find it difficult to make new friends, according to new research. A new study into the social dynamics of 2,000 Americans revealed that the average American hasn’t made a new friend in five years. In fact, it seems for many that popularity hits its peak at age 23, and for thirty-six percent, it peaks even before age 21. The study, conducted by OnePoll in conjunction with Evite, uncovered that one of the reasons 42 percent of adults struggle to make friends is due to introversion or shyness. And the challenge isn't just in breaking out of one's shell, but also breaking into new social situations and circles.

popularity hits its peak at age 23, and for thirty-six percent, it peaks even before age 21.

oh bullshit, I know wildly popular people of all ages who seem to always be drawing new people into their lives, even people in their 80's!

not just because of introversion or shyness but also prejudices and judgments, snobbery etc. Five year olds make friends wherever they go because they are without inhibition or prejudice

I don't have any friends from 21 or 23, all my friends are from much later in my life. I wasn't the same person then and I wouldn't want to still be friends with the people I knew then, now.

OP, we don't know you. Why are you placing this burden on us?

Mr Trump, you ruined the country and you're crazy, that's why you have no friends.

I think society today is different. My parents' friends used to visit - drop in on them - or they would drop in on friends. Or neighbors. Some of their friends were older or younger, so they all were born @ 1920 to 1940. I used to drop in on friends (and vice versa) when I was in my 20's, until maybe my early 30s. This was just considered the thing to do, it was the way social life was. More casual. Then, everything changed. Not sure why - but everyone started to say, "Could you call first?" - this became the new rule.

This was a few years before cell phones. So you had to call from home. You couldn't be out shopping or driving, and just drop in. It was more formal. Maybe people didn't want to call and possibly get rejected. I really didn't want to call people and have to ask permission to visit them. So gradually, people stopped seeing each other. Friendships became about seeing people less. You had to make plans. Have parties, or plan dates. This really wasn't what casual, everyday friendships are about. So all of a sudden I only saw friends a few times a year. We weren't as close. It put a psychological distance between everyone when you needed an appointment to just hang with a out.

I do still have groups of friends from elementary school, high school, and college. But what often happens is, sometimes when you're older, people show their true colors. A Lot of resentments happen when friends aren't there for you, aren't loyal, whatever. Also, married or coupled friends and single friends don't hang out a lot, it's weird but that seems to be a dividing line.

[quote]I don't mind the texting, "stream of consciousness" stuff.

Yeah, I don't get R22's problem with this. Why wouldn't friends text each other? What's wrong with a friend expressing things in an unorganized, impressionistic way?

OK, so a simplified answer that combines all the answers here is: PEOPLE ARE CUNTS!

A friend went off at me for texting him and asking him how he was while he was sewing. Apparently I was supposed to know he was sewing and not text! Blocked him on the spot.

Me: Shaun, how are you?

Him: Don't text me while I'm sewing!

BYE CUNT!

OP, you don't have any friends because you are self-absorbed.

[quote]Oprah revealed last week that she doesn't have many friends, only three, Three!

To be fair, she's Oprah. When you're at her level financially, it's harder to trust people. It's also harder to deal with people who think they know you since everyone has a preconceived notion of who she is. Finding a friend that doesn't want anything from you, is willing to get to know you and who won't put your business out on the streets must be difficult.

[quote]So all those celebrities and parties etc. are just business.

Most celebrities will tell you that if you ask them point blank.

[quote]The friends she named as Gayle obviously, Maria Shriver, and Bob Greene. No Meghan and Harry, no Julia Roberts, Obama, Tina Turner, et. al, just three! Fuck she must have put some noses outta joint!

Doubtful. I'm sure, they're all on the same page. You can be "friends" or rather "friendly" with someone but not be (close) "friends" with someone. I'm sure they all have their own friends.

Also, really examine who she said her friends are since that's relevant to the thread:

Gail and Oprah have been friends for 45 years. They met in Baltimore before she was "Oprah."

Maria Shriver and Oprah met 42 years ago ... when Oprah was working in Baltimore before she was "Oprah."

Bob Greene and Oprah met 29 years ago when he began to train her so he's seen her, probably, at her worst, covered in sweat and he has proven he can keep her life private because I'm sure he knows more than average about her.

Oprah's friends have been her friends for a very long time and the last one she met when she was 38 that she had a situational relationship with that became personal. I'm sure they all really know who she is because they've been around so long and seen her in unusual circumstances. That's not much different than anyone else.

[quote] What's wrong with a friend expressing things in an unorganized, impressionistic way?

It's a pet peeve of mine, for a long time. The specific friend I'm thinking about also just isn't very nice, sometimes.

I don't think you have to keep every friend just because they're not at the "toxic" level.

That's just my approach and I know others have a different attitude towards friendships.

[quote] What's wrong with a friend expressing things in an unorganized, impressionistic way?

Also, it's more than just unorganized and impressionistic. It's basically the same things, over and over, for years. Same "problems." Same questions asked and answered.

My friends are dead. Aging sucks.

R22 you experience is similar to mine. I had a friend for 20 years, since middle school. Even after I moved away, we spoke regularly over the phone. She was always fun, humorous, easygoing, and generous, but over time especially the last 5 years, she really went downhill as a friend.

What were once fun conversations that I would look forward to, became just time for her to talk non-stop about herself, how everyone else sucked and how everything was an annoyance to her. If I asked any sort of question, she would belittle it, and reply back in an angry tone as to why I was even asking. If I tried to talk about anything regarding my life, she would quickly tune out. If she were out in public, she would literally start talking to other people while I was trying to tell her something, and then she would just say, "sorry, I didn't hear any of that." I came to dread seeing her call me.

I put up with it for far too long because she and her family had always been incredibly generous and hospitable to me when when we were growing up. Also, she had been in a 10 year long marriage with a psycho guy and went through a messy divorce, ending with her in therapy. No kids though.

Last year though was my last straw. It was my fucking birthday and she texted me that she wanted me to call HER. We spoke, she went on about herself, and I tried to interject, she said something nasty, I said something nasty back, and it just escalated. It ended with me just telling her she really had become an awful person over the years and for someone she considered one of her "closest friends," she treated me horribly.

We haven't spoken since, but I don't miss that relationship.

Most people I've encountered who say they can't make friends turn out to be shitty friends themselves.

R74, sorry to hear all of that.

[quote] If she were out in public, she would literally start talking to other people while I was trying to tell her something ...

My "old friend" did this, too. That's super fucking rude and I can't believe people do this (have 2 vocal conversations going at the same time).

R2 if that’s your attitude about your new city, it may be alienating the people you’re trying to befriend.

I experienced a lot of loss early in life; when I was in college, a beloved teacher/mentor/friend was killed in a freak accident. A few years later, a man I had seriously dated committed suicide (pills, on New Years Eve, no less - we had broken up a few months before). And worst of all, like many others who read and post here, in my early/mid 30s I began to lose friends - and I mean a really close, tight knit group of friends - to AIDS. Seven of them - one by one by one, over about an 8 year span. (I know there are some on here who have lost far more, but needless to say, it was devastating. I was beginning to think that everyone I came into contact with died; luckily for me, I found an excellent therapist who helped me deal with this, along with other issues, and quite literally saved my life.

I began to place great value on self reliance, and developing the "strong sense of self" somebody alluded to upthread. I began to realize that the only person who was going to truly value and take care of me was - me. I built a successful career, always had good working relationships, gradually developed skills for managing people, and because I was single, was able to accept a really good promotion which required me to move to Chicago. I learned to prioritize myself first: I was always careful with money, (relatively) mindful of physical health, and lucky enough to have the time and wherewithal to nourish my psyche and soul with things and experiences I loved: books, art, music, theater.

People tend to like me because I'm easy to like: I'm relaxed, funny, and do not monopolize conversations or social situations. However, I have never married or had any kind of long term love relationship - and I'm OK with that. I have watched MANY couples, gay and straight, that I thought were solid as rocks, separate, divorce or go down the tubes in other very destructive ways. As I approached retirement, I moved back to my hometown, bought a house (now paid for) and have settled into a very comfortable life. I was able to support and care for my parents before their deaths, see siblings, nieces and nephews fairly often, and quite by accident discovered that a female friend from my college theater days (now long divorced) lives about 5 minutes away. She has become a dependable and valued friend, and we have a kind of pact that if either one of us has any kind of emergency we will be each other's first contact. So far I've only had to run her up to urgent care once when she cut her hand. She doesn't know it yet, but I have written her into my will.

I am 71 now and very grateful for the life I have. I sometimes think of my lost friends and imagine how totally different my life might have turned out if any or all of them had survived. Other times I'm actually glad they're not alive to see certain things. I can honestly say I do not experience loneliness or depression - I think the losses I experienced early on taught me that life is fragile and every day is pretty much a gift.

One more thing: be wary of "reconnecting" type relationships. For awhile after I retired I was active in a couple of local theater groups, and through that ran into a guy I knew in college that I had really enjoyed and respected. He glommed right onto me and sadly, it didn't take long to realize that the erudite, talented guy I remembered from 30 years ago was in fact a failed, egocentric alcoholic and a disappointment in every way. It made me wish I had never run into him and could have remembered him as he was.

Sorry this is so long!!! Best wishes to all - especially when watching all those Hallmarky, idealized soft focus commercials showing groups of central casting friends and families celebrating "idyllic" holidays!

Also: I remember when I first found DL a few years back there was a thread bemoaning friends who never initiated contact and the majority of DLers were of the opinion that the OP should cut them off, with multiple stories of people who seemed to go out of their way to set themselves up for disappointment.

I expressed the opinion that in a friendship it sometimes develops that one person is the organizer and the other the organizee, and that when you have a friend like that, someone you always have to call to make plans, they happily accept the offer, engage in deciding what you should do and then actually show up and seem to have a good time, then that's just the nature of the relationship, clearly the person enjoys being with you, they're just not a planner.

That opinion was met by shall l we say, skepticism, and may explain some of this thread.

As a boy I was very shy but was able to make friends easily with some girls. We moved around a lot so on the first day of school I’d look for the fattest, ugliest, poorest looking girl I could find. They were so happy to have anyone talk to them and I was relieved because I didn’t think they would reject me.

The people I know who have the most friends are (1) very flexible about what kinds of people they’ll be friends with and how they’ll maintain those friends, and (2) don’t have any insecurity or annoyance about being the “inviter” or “planner” of friend outings.

I know a guy who is absolutely swimming in friends. It’s because he hates to be alone, ever. So all day he’s texting and calling people—people he’s known for 20 years or only met once—asking what they’re up to that night and whether they want to meet up later. He doesn’t care about those people’s politics, whether they text him too much or about irritating things, whether they ever make the plans, will they think he’s needy, etc. He has a lot of friends but his life sounds hellish to me.

If you are pickier—if you want to only communicate in a certain way, about certain things, with certain types of people—you are narrowing your friend pool. I am A LOT pickier than the Friendly Guy, but I’ve kept a lot of friends over the years because I’m slow to cut anyone off. My friends who have kids go dormant for years, but I touch base with them in more distant ways like checking in when I’m in their area or liking their social media post. Then when they have time for me again, they get in touch. And I don’t take that personally because I have enough friends that I don’t need to be focus of any one of their attention.

I’ll add though - my friend insecurity issue that I don’t have one BEST friend. I miss that from being a kid. I have some very close friends but not that one person who’s the Gayle to my Oprah.

Was it Malcom gladwell who said we have only 4 kinds of friends - childhood/family, school, college and work. I don't have the first three having moved away a long time ago.

After I changed my life of work in recent years, my work friends dropped. So now I'm the situation OP is in too.

I've recently lost two close friends, well at least i think i have. They have stopped communicating with me all together. One i've known for over 30 years and the other about 15. They were already introverts and the pandemic just made it worse. I've reached out to both of them and get crickets in return. I know they are busy with life and other issues, but it would be nice to have my efforts reciprocated. After so many times reaching out, its kind of humiliating not to receive a response back, so i just quit trying. If they don't care anymore, neither do i.

Honestly, I'm a frau with grown kids, but if any of you are in my city, I'll spring for lunch and listen to your life story, every pet peeve you have, and what you had for dinner last night. And I won't bore you with anecdotes of my kids' precociousness.

I moved out of DC to a small red Midwestern town 20 years ago that was made up of generations of a few families. I never made any *good* friends, and now that we've moved, even those surface friendships have fallen by the wayside.

I've tried a couple of book clubs, and I'll continue to try to make some inroads, but everyone seems to act like the group is just a check mark and they aren't looking for a deeper connection.

R68 that shit is hilarious! Men who sew are highly suspicious of hidden personality disorders.

I've had at least a couple of long-ish friends ghost me. Ghosting is unpopular here on DL, but I actually don't mind it that much. Yes, it hurts at first, but I'm OK with it.

r87, I feel the same way. Obviously the friendship wasn't working for them and they didn't have an interest in working through it. Do you really want to actually hear that, knowing that whatever they say won't change the course of the friendship anyway?

r68 I read that as him being funny. I think you overreacted, by suddenly blocking him.

Interesting thread. In my situation, work is sucking the life out of me every day. It has always been a problem, but has been exasperated by the pandemic. I do not have the energy at the end of the day to do any more than get something to eat (often the only time I've eaten all day) and go to bed. I fall in the middle of the introvert/extrovert category. I like people around, but I do not do drama. If there is drama, it is promptly cut out. I feel so bad that one of my few friends around has been trying to connect for a few drinks and I just don't have the energy. I am in my upper 50s with a husband.

I went to a small private school and the popular girls are all still close friends with each other. Why? Because they’re all straight, wear exactly the same clothes, think exactly the same way regarding values and politics, go to church together, and also now all have had kids at almost identical ages. They have a strong bond because they’re all exactly alike with no individuality.

Me on the other hand, I have strong individuality and am a gay guy. I never fit in with the girls as I wasn’t a girl but wasn’t even considered to be accepted with the guys.

In college I met friends, but they all moved back to where they came from or worse — got married and had kids. Once people have kids and you’re single without kids, the friendship is over.

Also, the gay friends I have met have either died or moved all over the country. I do not understand the need to move every 6 months or a year, but it seems necessary for some gays.

Thank god I have online friends. I don’t have any pets or a boyfriend, so without my online friends, I would be completely alone. Work friends don’t even begin to count.

R55...What about Stedman?

[quote] I feel so bad that one of my few friends around has been trying to connect for a few drinks and I just don't have the energy. I am in my upper 50s with a husband.

R90, do you think that, if you were single, you'd feel more "energy" to make time for your friends?

r91 Gays always move because they can. They don't have families and deep roots so they can easily uproot themselves for a better job or more pay. I've noticed that gay guys I knew bounced around a lot to take advantage of career opportunities.

Go to the local bars, make new friends.

I’ve spent most of my life taking care of other people financially and otherwise. A few years ago I switched careers and started focusing on myself which pissed off more than one old friend. One even accused me of being self absorbed and you know what? I AM! It’s ME time folks and, if you don’t like it, buh bye and thanks for the support.

I’m not into finding friends in bars. I need an alcoholic friend like I need a rubber asshole.

I used to care about this but now that I've realized that everything I enjoy doing is something that you can only really do by yourself... I don't mind so much. I don't really worry about it anymore. I've had more fun by myself than I ever have with other people.

That's the nice thing about work and surface friends, they can leave whenever. It's good to know that. And if they're gonna fall off it's better they do early. But I don't care. Those who fall off have become boring to me as I'm sure I am to them.

[quote] Oprah revealed last week that she doesn't have many friends, only three, ......No Meghan and Harry.... Fuck she must have put some noses outta joint!

Fucking fat bitch refused to curtsy and address me as "ma'am". When I corrected her, she had the nerve to say, "Oprah doesn't do stairs or curtsies." Fuck her.

Where do you live? I’ll be your friend.

I'm amazed at the independence of so many of you and I am jealous and wish it worked for me. The pandemic has identified for me how alone I am in this world and how much I don't like it. Days - weeks even - would pass with word from anybody. I don't think I'm that horrible a person. But I was a loner for many reasons that suited me for many years, a failure at finding love that lasted, and now, as I age, I see how many of my friends live in a world of couples and family. I don't need emotional support so much as companionship... just some diversion from time to time to engage with and think about something other than myself. I am so tense my joints ache. I know my body is full of cortisol from stress and tension and today I realized, you may as well get used to it because you're going to die comparatively young for your age group and a stinking, leaking, soggy mess once the stench is bad enough they have to call the emergency services to break the door down. So really looking forward to that. Ironically, walking and exercise compound the insight, because that's when I think most about how alone I've wound up. I don't know quite how it happened, except I stayed single and so many others didn't. Against all odds, I've decided to try dating again. Somehow. There have be some men still stuck single who, like me, aren't entirely unhinged, and some decent widowers coming on the market. I don't know what else to do. I think the Golden Girls is only on TV. Single is hard and lonely. You're not even a widow, to club with them.

Do you all think Datalounge and the internet in general has exacerbated your tendency towards not having many friends?

As in you are having the sorts of conversations on here you might be having with friends IRL and DL doesn't make any demands on you?

Nobody I know in real life is as horrible as a DLer being horrible. I'd be a hermit if in reali life I bumped up against DLers at their worst. No, for me, this place is just a habit that fills a void.

r104, you must not live in a red state. There is not a single person on here who is as bad as the people I come into contact with every day. And at least the put-downs and snark here is somewhat rooted in intelligence (I think?)

*are

People tend to gravitate towards me and I think it's because I'm really open. I like getting to know people and I think I ask the right questions that people know I'm sincere in my motivations. But I'll have someone I just met, say at a party, who will reveal to me their biggest secrets. It has been like this my entire life. I think I have a friendly face and people think I'm approachable. But that's not always a good thing. I have a few people who have really tried to become better friends with me, but I'm good at knowing when people are being disingenuous and so I hold them at bay.

Most of my really good friends I met from doing activities I enjoy...like joining a recreational baseball team or doing martial arts. A few are from high school and we talk often. One I've known since I was 7 and we're still friends (we're both in our 50's). I have brothers and a sister. I'm sort of close to my sister but not really my brothers. I'm estranged from parents. I think I knew that my family wasn't going to be there for me and so I made sure to make friends along my journey. To be honest, just being open to people is the key. Ask questions. One of the things I've noticed in the younger generations is a lack of ability to make conversation. It's really weird how people don't learn this basic skill.

I live alone cause I like it!

[quote]More people in your life just means more drama.

Only if your friends, or you, are high drama.

People often seem to want friends to stand by them and support them and defend them, and serve as an endless reservoir of favors if needed. I think that's a bit shit, always testing and re-testing your friends to see if they are sufficiently loyal.

You're moving and you're short if money? Count me out. But if I'm in a position that I can help another way, fine: I'll offer to hire two movers with a van for a day to do the worst of the grunt work for you, my gift with nothing wanted in return. Friendship isn't me waiting for an invitation to spend 24 hours moving your stuff and solving your crisis. You're nervous about some outpatient surgery, of course I'll shepherd you to the clinic and wait and see you home and order dinner. But some of the responsibility of friends is to keep a friendship alive, not just warmed up again every time someone in need wants to do a headcount of their "real friends.". It's not about tit for tat. Most of us have friends who are alternately needy and generous, but you know not to expect them to serve as your bank, to have great advice, or to be Oprah-style nuturing. Their strengths and weaknesses lie elsewhere. Love them for what they are or don't make a scene about it. Wanting a friend to mop up your dad scene of expiration is what a lot of Data Loungers want, someone to through out tons of their stuff so that no one thinks they were a hoarder.

Friends deserve better than a lot of what DLers expect of them.

Good question, R93. R90 here. Having a husband is just another element that impacts available free time to meet up with my old friend that I would like to catch up with.

[quote]Ask questions. One of the things I've noticed in the younger generations is a lack of ability to make conversation. It's really weird how people don't learn this basic skill.

I know how to ask questions... it's amazing how bad people are at answering them. You throw them an opportunity to tell a story and you get virtually nothing. Conversation is a lost art in North America.

[quote]I have found a few new friends by being more open to people who have common interests but are quite a bit older or younger than me.

Exactly, R18. Some people expect their friends to meet some high standard of similarity in age, background, economic situation, perspectives, hobbies, neither too much better nor worse looking, not far, with nice hair... Is your intention to make friends or choose the perfect life partner, your match in every way? How fucking tedious.

At 60 I have friends who are in their mid 20s and friends who are 90+. In each case we built upon some spark of compatibility and discovered where we were alike and how we differed and explored both ends of that.

I'm lucky in two respects. I have a partner who is curious to know everyone so I'm exposed to a lot of people through him and through a core group of local friends. And I live in a place where people are comfortable communicating across generations - it's not seen as weird to have a friend who's more than twice or half your age.

But I do think people limit themselves when they try to be so very correct about who is worthy of their friendship before that question should even arise.

People never look at other people. They're too busy looking at their phones. A friend who was a bartender for many years said talked about people would sit at the bar and spend most of the time looking at their phones.

R70: "Gail and Oprah have been friends for 45 years. They met in Baltimore before she was "Oprah."

That's correct. I believe she using her birth name, "Roger".

R70 - Having known some interesting people in my time, the biggest thing is that there has to be a complete understanding that nothing said/done is going anywhere. They know that I have just as vested interested in that understanding.

Nobody mentioned heath clubs? I've made any number of friends over the years, and have managed to keep quite a few, at least the ones that haven't moved to the other side of the planet.

I’m 62 and have a ton of friends. If I find someone who I think is interesting, I work to make them my friend. To me, the world really is divided into extroverts and introverts. The extroverts are pretty shallow, but easy to converse with, especially if you talk about them. The introverts are harder to get to know, you have to work to get them to open up. By the time you figure out if they’re worth being your friend, they’re your friend. Of course you have to put yourself out there and will yourself to take a risk. Find a social group and see who wonders away from the herd. It’s easier than you think.

r70 yes, but Oprah did used to project the image that a lot of those celebrities were her friends. I imagine Maya Angelou was on that list till she died. Oprah's only friends with Shriver so she can be Kennedy adjacent. O was a star fucker, couldn't help herself drop names when she was common and up and coming. Diane Sawyer was a friend, I'm surprised Tina Turner isn't considered a friend, John TRAVOLTA isn't a friend? Tyler Perry? The woman's full of shit.

all the celebrities Oprah said were her friends but apparently aren't

I’m not a huge fan of Oprah. I’m a nobody in the working worl (not retired). I would call certain colleagues “friends” even if we never socialize. Friends in the working world means someone who won’t purposely sabotage you.

[quote]yes, but Oprah did used to project the image that a lot of those celebrities were her friends.

R55 / R117 / R118 Why are you trying to turn this perfectly, pleasant thread into an OPRAH hate thread? I really hate it when this happens. Everyone's being so nice and talking about themselves, sharing advice, giving their experiences. It's a beautiful thread, and you're, "OPRAH!!" "OPRAH!!" "MEGHAN! HARRY! OPRAH!!!"

You're misquoting her, of course, as I just listened to what she said. She [italic]specifically[/italic] was talking about her close friends so you're being intentionally, unnecessarily obtuse.

Why? Because Meghan Markle is a beautiful earth mother, sex goddess, princess. She is beauty. She is grace. She's a world wide woman - dubaya dubaya dubaya. She can log on anywhere. She can take there. She is everything you have ever wanted to be and more and no sane person hates her for it. Unlike Meghan you will never be glamour.

See, I said that to piss you off. Have fun with that, no doubt yelling at me or cursing at me, after I mute you.

Three of my longtime friends turned out to be Trumpers, so I don’t speak to them more than an occasional text. I’m tired of being sad and disappointed.

OMG, did you see Oprah’s favorite things list?

ALL HAIL QUEEN MEGHAN

I'm a loner with a boner.

I don't like gay men or lesbians.

And straight people don't like me.

So...

[Quote] If I find someone who I think is interesting, I work to make them my friend.

I do this too but I'm more often than not disappointed. Almost all of them do not last.

Men are much worse at friendship than women. Women bring a lot of unnecessary drama but at least they fully recognise the importance of maintaining and fighting for friendships.

Men, especially straight men, but even gay men sometimes too, find it very difficult to admit that they care about one another or will miss each other. We are socialised not to appear too gay and also to be competitive with each other. Plus, there is the phenomenon of the straight guy throwing over all his friends once he gets into a serious relationship, thus allowing her friends and their partners to be the 'couple' friends. This is a dumb move, but most guys don't realise it until too late.

Think of the way male friendship, is treated in culture. Sure, there are lots of 'buddy movies', road trips etc but those friendships you see depicted are all instrumental: they last until the bad guy has been defeated, or the plot is resolved, but no longer than that. A friendship-based show like 'Sex and the City' - which celebrated the connection between the women as being at least as important, if not more important, than their romantic relationships, couldn't work with men in the lead roles. After a certain age, men who want to spend time with their friends are called irresponsible, spendthrift, a bad husband and father, and probably a cheat.

A good friend of mind told me he didn't think it was possible to make friends after college age. I disagree, but you can't expect your friends to be too much like you: you have to be open to what other people have to teach you. I have good friends 15 to 20 years older than me: no-one that much younger than me yet but I'd be open to it.

On the plus side, the internet has made it a lot easier to meet people with common interests. Volunteering, meetup.com, a local running group or something similar: something at which you can count on seeing the same people regularly so a friendship slowly and naturally grows.

I have quite a few people I'd consider good friends but when you live alone it's hard not to feel lonely a lot of the time.

Another problem I face is I work as a Senior-level administrator, which rules out 99% of the people from work as possible friends outside of the office. Of the remaining 1% of my peers, some I like and others not so much - so I just keep work separate.

Find a boyfriend who has a network of friends. Real friends. Good people attract other good people.

I think the lack of a monoculture is one problem…the internet lets all of us pursue our niche interests, but no one you meet in real life is going to share them. But on the other side of the coin, meeting up with internet friends that do share those interests is almost always a disappointment, at least in my experience.

[quote]But if I'm in a position that I can help another way, fine: I'll offer to hire two movers with a van for a day to do the worst of the grunt work for you, my gift with nothing wanted in return. Friendship isn't me waiting for an invitation to spend 24 hours moving your stuff and solving your crisis.

I'm the opposite -- I love to pitch in projects with friends, whether it's moving or painting or tearing off roof shingles or raking leaves or what have you. Working side by side is a great bonding exercise. I've become lifelong friends with work acquaintances by helping them with projects.

My best friend is the love of my life. We are in love and happy, but we don't have friends. Our families often come to see us and we go to meet them very too. But then we are happy to be alone, just the two of us in our apartment and our little world. The friends I had all betrayed me or pretended to accept that I was gay when I came out. My boyfriend is a loner and does not feel the need to have friends. He has very loving brothers and that is enough for him. We have traveled a lot, we have activities without each other to give each other space. We have acquaintances but no friends.

I’ve experienced a divide between people who have high expectations of friends and those who are more flexible. Some people think we aren’t close friends if we aren’t calling or texting often, and will move on to other friends if I’m not making weekly plans with them or willing to go out and attend events with them on weeknights. But my most longterm, closest friends all live in far-flung places and we communicate a few times a month or even less, a lot of times via email. I guess we’re all more low key people, or more introverted or something! But they are like siblings to me.

I wished a long term friend a happy birthday but never got an acknowledgement. I'm thinking it's a message to put a distance between us.

I have a ton of friends but nobody wants to hang out. We’re all in our 50’s, similar backgrounds. I hear from them often through text, phone, SM but to meet up in person is an act of Congress with these people. Is this an elder gay phenomenon?

AIDS is mentioned only once in this entire thread. I don't know what to make of that.

I was in NYC and the SF Bay Area all through the 80's and 90's and lost hundreds of people that I knew. Some were known casually. Some friends and co-workers. A few who were extremely close and very dear to me. I know it was in the hundreds because I quit counting and saving names after 250 deaths and that was five full years before the first effective drug treatment.

I can't imagine what my life would be like at 65, if all those deaths had not occurred. I sometimes think life today would be an endless whirl of social functions and fun with all those people I lost, but I know that is fantastical thinking. Still, I am confident that I'm not the only gay man whose life today is not shaped in many ways, friends being one of them, from those years upon years of loss, loss, loss. A lot of time and energy went into those friendships and they are all gone.

I have made great friendships along the way, but I always felt that I had to. Some new friendships did not go the distance. Others have. But you have to want them. And put yourself out there to make them. The success rate is not really very high. Most acquaintances remain acquaintances. But some good friendships break through.

The biggest obstacle to making and keeping friends is probably found in OP's framing of his inquiry. He describes himself as "professional." These days, that usually means over worked and over stressed. The money is nice, but it is exhausting. And forget about having time for friends. Most of the "professionals" I know hardly have time to sleep and maintain their wardrobes so that they can go back and work some more. The money can be great, but what you sell of yourself for some money and status is not fully acknowledged.

OP, you talk more than you listen.

And when you listen, you don't really "listen."

No friends here either. Over the years they either drifted away or I did. I left my b/f several months ago and also had to give up my only social circle. I wasn't being that social lately but the friends were his friends and became my friends through him but stuck with him after the split...not even a phone call to ask how I'm doing. I have one frenemy , he was my "friend" for years but I kept him at a distance during most of my relationship with my ex. because he had a habit of making me look bad to anyone I was dating. Anyway he became friendly in later years with me and my ex and he was more upset at the break than I was. So now at 57 I have one frenemy and my family mostly hates me, my mom died a couple of years ago, she was really the only person that I could turn to so now I really feel that I am on my own in this world. I have major depression and also recently diabetes along with a heart condition. I am just waiting for the end but I am not enjoying the wait, my life is stressful and empty, I guess we go on living for someone else or natural instinct. I don't really have anyone to live for and a life of misery isn't a life. Sorry to veer off into the life/death thing in a thread about not having friends but I think the two are related, plus I needed to vent...I have nobody else to vent to.

[quote]I have a ton of friends but nobody wants to hang out. We’re all in our 50’s, similar backgrounds. I hear from them often through text, phone, SM but to meet up in person is an act of Congress with these people. Is this an elder gay phenomenon?

Not an elder gay thing, but you're American, no R136? That's the explanation.

I never really realized it until I saw the yes of someone not from the U.S., but Americans would rather chew off a leg than to do something with friends that they genuinely like.

[bold]"Adult freindship is two people saying, 'I haven't seen you in forever. We should really hang out more!', over and over again until one of you dies."[/bold]

Questions.

So many people complain about not having friends.

I think it's mostly about the fact that the majority of people today simply don't ask other people questions. It still shocks me that when I meet new people, most of the time I'll ask them reasonable and interesting questions about ask me questions as well -- they'll answer, sometimes well, sometimes not. But that's it. They don't realize they're supposed to ask me questions as well.

This is the rule of basic conversation. But few people follow through. The reason I have managed to make and maintain plenty of friends as that I am genuinely interested in their lives.. And ask them about it.

Weirdly, few people do this. So I would say to those of you who don't have many friends (and want some) do you ask other people questions about their lives? Are you actually interested in their answers? Or do you only talk about yourself?

Think about it.

^^ True, I'm more of a broadcaster. I only like to talk about my work. My friends mostly don't do much.I'm standoffish and pretty autistic when it comes to relating emotionally.

"I'm standoffish and pretty autistic when it comes to relating emotionally."

aka An ill-bred narcissist.

When did "autism" become a cop out for being selfish and rude?

[quote]...I'm more of a broadcaster. I only like to talk about my work.

Ouch. We could never be friends, R141 (no loss, I'm sure you're thinking), but my best friends have only a vague idea of what I do or much of anything about it other than that I work from home. I could tell you in very round terms what some of my friends do and give a pretty precise summary of other's but only because I have an excellent memory. Work (theirs or mine) is the very least part of conversation with most of my friends, the exceptions (to some extent) being artists or performers.

I don’t ask questions because I don’t want to pry and seem nosy.

R139 yes, I am American. Good guess. And that’s exactly what it’s like - so sick of hearing “we must get together soon.” That’s usually when I tune out.

My SIL has no close women friends and she gloms onto my sisters and their friends who tolerate her. She is a loving, sweet person but devoid of social skills. She either comes across as too earnest/needy or stand offish. She is also very literal and tends to have a black & white outlook. She is well-educated but has little common sense. IMO she has to have some sort of personality/communication disorder but I have no idea what.

I'm the opposite, no close family except parents but I have a pretty big circle of friends and acquaintances. I think it comes from being mostly single, so I'm always around to do things.

^ That said, I've lost contact with or ended several friendships for one reason or another, and my group has dwindled. People moved, or got coupled up. How can we all become friends with each other? Seriously, start an online group or something? I've been on DL over 20 years.

I have several friends, they're all pretty good people, but I don't really want to see them a lot. As you get older (we're in our 50s) people just seem to do more and more to piss you off or disappoint you. They're the same people they were in their teens, twenties, or thirties. But the things you used to spend time worrying about, then forgive them for (why didn't he invite me when he invited her? Why did she ignore me at her party? Why didn't he come to my father's funeral? Why was she rude to me?) - I just don't wantr to deal with this shit any more.

R148 This IS an online group. Look back over this thread. People being candid, exposing their innermost being to others, offering advice, support. And for DL, very few discouraging words. The only thing missing is libation of choice and nibblies. It would be FAR different - frightening, discomfiting, threatening, bewildering, discombobulating, etc. - if we were all in a room, up close and personal.

Ha. Because you're American, you know how it is, R145.

Pity the foreigners who are are confused by this and think all these unsuccessful entreaties to get together reflect poorly upon them somehow, "but she made it sound like it was really important.") The busy being busy thing drives me nuts. In other places in the world friendship isn't something you do your best to avoid because it takes time away

American friendliness is saying "we must get together soon! no! we really HAVE to do this!" as if you really, really, really mean it!!!

R138 *Hug*

Clinical depression is horrible, I'm so sorry for your suffering. At 57 you are not old yet so don't give up! You are probably sick of advice but try a new med, do something, anything. I know what you mean about waiting to die, I am 70 and those intrusive thoughts are debilitating. Sometimes I fight them and sometimes I succumb and allow myself to be depressed that I might be dead soon. It's a rational response to the great inevitable, but not everything rational should be encouraged. Stay strong!

R142 yes I'm pretty narcissistic, being anyways caught up in my thinking and work but I'm not ill bred. I do love others' ideas even more if they are good. You may be right r143 that we could never be friends. I'm pretty picky and not the kind of person you'd invite to a party but rather to an event. So, for better and for worse I have no friends.

R151 It's interesting that you are saying that this is an American thing. In America, known as the "Seattle Freeze"; being very polite but not really wanting to engage with someone beyond pleasantries.

It may be the result of the churning population leading people to learn to get along superficially, knowing they'll probably not know someone for long.

[quote]The term Seattle Freeze refers to a widely held belief that it is especially difficult to make new friends in the U.S. city of Seattle, Washington, particularly for transplants from other cities. A 2005 Seattle Times article appears to be the first known use of the term, though the Seattle Daily Times described the phenomenon as early as the 1940s.

[quote]people just seem to do more and more to piss you off or disappoint you.

This. Kept up with school friends into my 30s, till lines were crossed and so many semi-ignored red flags waved unignorably. Thought I really didn't want to continue as 'lifelong friends' because there wasn't enough good to offset the bad. No regrets.

I've certainly had times of loneliness, which is of course instructive. When good people by chance happen in your life you appreciate them all the more. Of course one needs to put in work and show willing, but the nice thing about good friendships is that they don't feel like hard work - and you get affirmation back. The few friendships I have are important to me, and I take care also not to overplay this feeling.

[quote]American friendliness is saying "we must get together soon! no! we really HAVE to do this!"

If you really want to, just sweetly ask, 'When? Give me your best time!'

[quote]being very polite but not really wanting to engage with someone beyond pleasantries.

Certainly a middle to upper-middle trait here in the UK too. Once read that the more certain Brits dislike you, the greater their politeness. Good manners as a tactic really can't be faulted.

How stupid is Gillibrand to get into bed with Meghan Markle? Even Susan Collins is whatevs. Void.

Well, you know what I'm going to say.

Hugs and warm wishes to you, R136. From a friend -

This is a bit of a side note, but I have the hardest time conducting life via text message. I will not accept discussing important issues via text. Important issues such as one's concern for someone else's behaviour who's 'detoxing' and sounding strange. No, I don't want to tell you I'm concerned, so you can ghost me for hours. In this case it wasn't interfering, it was genuine concern.

That's just one example. I've grown exhausted from taking 90 minutes of texting to do what 90 seconds of a phone conversation would've done.

[quote] Find a boyfriend who has a network of friends. Real friends. Good people attract other good people.

I wouldn't expect a partner's friends to become my friends as well. Couples do break up and, afterwards, BF's friends will probably not remain friends with you as well.

The attached link explains it. Finding out what was wrong with me changed my life. I sabotage opportunities to have friends because I assume nobody will like me. Instead of rejection, I choose to only have my partner in my life. Having an exceedingly dysfunctional childhood crippled me.

Sorry, here's the link...

[quote] Too bad everyone in this thread can't get together and be friends. I've enjoyed reading the posts and feel we are alone together in the same boat.

Maybe Datalounge should start a dating site.

[quote]Maybe Datalounge should start a dating site.

Now there's an idea for a thread. Sincere if wry self-descriptions, read then mercilessly deconstructed and translated into pointless bitchery.

I cannot imagine the liability disclaimer required for that site.

R163 I do not date fat whores. Count me out of your DL dating site.

I would never be a member of a club that accepted me as a member.

Here's a Psych today article on making friends. But you shoudl know, this mag is really into the "Toxic" movement.

Also, we all change our life around a lot more than people did 60-70 years ago. Moving cities, changing jobs, leaving relationships.....

Friends leave.

OP, you haven't convinced me that you're worthy of friendship.

What do you bring to the table?

Those of you saying your partner is your only friend really need to reconsider that. A friend of mine moved 3000 miles away, met a guy and spent 15 years with him. He had just retired at age 54 and she was still working. A few months later, he started coughing up blood. He had Small Cell Lung cancer that only has a survival rate of 5%. She quit her job to take care of him and I kept telling her to make sure she still took care of herself too. Well, she didn't and he died within a year. She gained almost 60 lbs, injured herself trying to lift him into a chair when he fell and now she can barely move without pain. She has no friends except me and another girl who lives the same distance away.

The thing is, she was always hyper-critical of my friends; telling me to dump this one or that because they treated me in a bad way once. I'm much more forgiving than her and always try to talk through issues with my friends. Now that her partner is gone, she's alone. She also lost her dad to Covid in 2019 before the vaccine was around so she's had a lot of loss lately.

Friends are important and human beings make mistakes. I think sometimes the issue is that people just give up on friendships, but most issues are things that can be solved through communication. For instance, the person up thread complaining about the texting shit back and forth needs to simply text "We need to discuss this over the phone. Please call me" instead of just complaining about it. It's not hard.

I miss having a close friendship with someone, but i imagine at my age (48) not many people do.

Why is OP's post crossed out? He has no friends, so DL cruelly crosses out what might be his only attempt at socialization?

[quote] Those of you saying your partner is your only friend really need to reconsider that.... She has no friends except me and another girl who lives the same distance away.

Agree R172. What age range are you all in?

[quote]Why don't I have any friends?

My guess, feminine odor.

FFS look, if you have no friends, it's your fault, not everyone else

R177 not necessarily true. Not when you see other people having the same issues you’re having, as this thread proves. It’s seems most of us have the same scenario - having lots of friendships that crash and burn in middle age.

A professional gay male? How is being a gay male a profession?

There is a big gap of people born in the 50s and 60s who all caught the aids and died. No young person (under 30) wants to befriend a gay dino). No way, no how.

A professional gay male? How is being a gay male a profession?

you'd be surprised.

I think your early 20s is your last real opportunity to make close friendships. However, friendship are work and you have to maintain them.

But, I always tell people if you want to know if someone is your friend, stop initiating. Don't email for awhile. Don't text for awhile. Don't invite them to drinks. If you don't hear from them, then it means you were the one keeping the friendship going and you're not really friends.

This era is changing a lot of things about friendship.

First, the millennials are acting younger at older ages. It sounds crazy to me (age 36) that Malcolm Gladwell thinks college is the latest in life that people make friends. A lot of people in cities now have a whole post-college, pre-marriage/partnership decade they spend making friends and going out.

Second, the instant gratification of the internet and the opportunities it provides to see how many like-minded people are out there in the world has made people less tolerant of the people they actually know. This attitude is like - “If you don’t text the way I want you to, if you only talk about tv shows I think are boring, if you say stupid shit about politics, I have better ways to spend my time.” But it’s a mirage, because people physically in your life are a lot more valuable than faceless online people you observe on social media.

[quote] If you don't hear from them, then it means you were the one keeping the friendship going and you're not really friends.

I think this attitude is one of the divides between people who do and don’t keep a lot of friends, *and* why neither state of affairs is necessarily better than the other. Some of the people in this thread who wish they had more friends wouldn’t be happy if their friends were of this type. But a good amount of my friends are, and for another chunk of my friends, I’m the one who they reach out to. Life is messy and the balance in friendships changes a lot. It’s like people say about divorce, we didn’t get divorced because we didn’t both want a divorce at the same time. Friendships last because even in periods of imbalance, at least one of the friends is willing to hang on.

It's utter bullshit that early 20's is the last time to make good friends. From kindergarten through college, education - at least in America were I received mine - is structured to be one nearly ceaseless competitive event. Achieve or get no recognition. Fail and risk 'your future.' The students are naturally competitive with one another, because that is the way of life. They compete for everything. Attention from their parents. Attention from their teachers. Attention from their peers. For dates. For desirable schools. It's endless. Our schools use that competitiveness to motivate students. But it creates a hell of a lot of pressure.

We've had endless threads here on younger men dating older men. One of the chief dynamics going on there is the two men are in such different stations of life that they don't compete with each other. The 25 year old is uniquely himself and the 55 year old is, too. But put them back in a group with their peers and the competition begins. Early 20's is a HORRIBLE time for a person to be making friends. Allies, yes. But friends? No. And when college is over and new graduates go their own ways, those 'friendships' dissipate quickly. If that were not true, there would be no high school and college reunions. There would not need to be.

It's not until you are out on your own, making your own decisions, and choosing your own associates, that real friendships can begin. High school and college ain't it.

I know why I don’t have any friends. It my mothers fault. Mother used to tell me, “and no little friends over here, repeating rhymes, asking flippant questions, and talking in those nagging baby voices. Can’t you just sit here and look out at the air? Isn’t that enough!”

People these days are having their social needs met, albeit superficially, through social media and the internet. In the old days, if you wanted the company of anyone or anything but your own thoughts, you had to physically hang out with people. People didn’t stay in their own homes all the time like they do now.

If R186 isn't a riff by Norman Bates in 'Psycho' it certainly could be.

Cheesecake is your friend.

It will never let you down.

I feel I initiate contact with some of my friends mostly. So if I ghost them, does that mean they really never wanted to be my friend? And how many people in my life now really don’t want to be there but are just going through the motions? It’s hard to tell when you’re older vs younger.

This bit about making your best friends when you're young is garbage. Sure, some people never make new friends. But if you're active, or if you have an interesting profession, or if you're a volunteer, or you do anything that exposes you to new people with similar interests, etc, you'll keep making friends throughout your life. I'm one of the oldest people here on Datalounge (72) and I would say that most of my good friends I made after I was 50. I probably still make a friend every year.

I do have a few friends from college (none from high school where I was the typical shy, knew-I-was-different guy), and a few friends from my 20s, but I have changed over the years, grown into who I really am, and the people I met later in life, the ones who got to know the real me, are the real friends.

So no, it's not a given that your closest friends are those you made when young. They're the ones you make all the way through your life.

I find it hard to find other gay men as friends. Pretty much all my friends are older, single faghags whose children are all grown.

OP, go to a nursing home and befriend old people.

You're giving me hope, r191! Where did/do you volunteer, if you don't mind me asking. I volunteered at my county's animal shelter, but I mostly spent time with the prisoners who were allowed to work there during the day.

there are so many peoole who lost their significant love ones and friends during this pandemic. What happens to them? The trend was to dump everyone because everyone is "toxic." This was champoned by psycho-social and educational experts, even mental health talk therapist were telling their clients/patients to dump everyone.

Hpefully, they stop. And they start modelling polite and friendly behavior again, including activities suggestions.

OP, are you Madonna?

There are plenty of groups to join and meet others. Meetup is one of them. Lots of activities. Hiking, theatre, restaurants, etc. I feel it's much easier for gays to make new friends because they don't have the family and kids to tie them down.

OP, you're a lazy fucker.

[quote]This bit about making your best friends when you're young is garbage.

[quote]but I have changed over the years, grown into who I really am

Fully agree. The line about 'no real new friends after college' seems to me smug arrogant and ridiculous. The brain is still developing till about 25, and there's a lot of living and learning to do after that.

The 'no new friends' would-be diktat presumes that any and all new favourable contacts for the fifty years beyond college can't be anything but functional acquaintances. A counsel of despair, and in my case demonstrably wrong.

R187 I am thinking the same thing. In the past you had either the telephone (landline) or meeting up. Now people think they're good friends if they text you an emoji. No suggestion of a meetup, or even asking a question. I've just cut one person off for that, after monthy "miss you" gifs. I said "let's not pretend anymore that you have any interest in spending time with me." Of course I never heard back, not even a fuck you, that's how little they cared lol.

[quote] I said "let's not pretend anymore that you have any interest in spending time with me."

Why would they reply to such a hostile message?! A lot of lazy/crappy friends aren’t acting like that intentionally, it’s because there’s other shit going on in their lives…

R201. If someone I cared about sent me that message I would text back "That's not true! Why do you say that?"

I don't really want "lazy/crappy friends" that's the point.

Cable TV. Streaming features. It wasn't so long ago that there were three television networks. You might have had a local station or two, depending on where you lived, but the three networks were the backbone of entertainment in the home.

For entertainment, for information, you had to go out. And meet people. Now people sit on their fat asses in their Barcaloungers and watch endless hours of television. They are exercise deficient and bombarded with advertising, conditioning how you think.

If you stay home and watch MSNBC all day long, you are almost certainly not going to have friends. They get in the way of your TV habit.

Even if you did by the time you hit 50 they're dead or in jail or ghosted.

[quote]People these days are having their social needs met, albeit superficially, through social media and the internet.

How true. The superficiality is really such a deterioration of society. Someone mentioned upthread how people may have a lot of "internet friends" who can casually type each other brief messages and establish this long-term internet relationship, but when they eventually decide to meet in person they realize they have no chemistry as friends. That's the ILLUSION the internet puts forth unfortunately.

I experience it on Scruff where I can have the initial great text messaging back and forth with joking and interesting questions. Then when I want to move it to a phone conversation or actually meet in person, they're a dud when talking to them. The interaction completely changes. They have nothing to say! They lose all conversation skills.

You would expect the personality that came out during initial messaging would remain but nope.

If you're the one who does all of the reaching out and keeping the friendship alive, it's not a friendship. And I think there is a difference between the friends you make when you were a kid through your 20s and the friends you make later in life. I don't think the bond is as deep and rich.

Poor deluded, OP.

I find people have been trained for “friendship on demand” via the internet or social media. Now you get dumped into a cyber version of a toy box until a person decides you’re the toy to play with today (bored at work, need something, etc). Otherwise, you are forgotten.

Unfortunately real friendships/relationships don’t work like that, and people forget that it’s a two way street, give and take interaction. It also explains incels who blame their social retardation on more socially adept people instead of spending time interacting with people and developing social skills/relationships with real people. If you never leave the house and play video games day and night, it’s not other people’s fault you are still a friendless virgin.

[quote]The line about 'no real new friends after college' seems to me smug arrogant and ridiculous. The brain is still developing till about 25, and there's a lot of living and learning to do after that.

Exactly R199. Maybe that's true for people who stay in one place all their lives, but if you've changed cities, changed countries, changed jobs, changed your interests over time, you've probably picked up new friends along the way (and maybe lost some through distance and other factors.) It makes me think of the 43 year olds who go about sighing that high school was some sort of golden age (with the implication that everything after is downhill.)

People change, too, and the friends I've made past middle age are not the ones I would have made when I was 18 or 28 (indeed some of my friends were not born when I was 18 or 28, and some live in parts of the world I had not yet visited at that age.

The Data Lounge custom seems to be that the older one gets the one one is expected to test their friends' fidelity in holding up their side of things as though it were a business partnership, testing their readiness to initiate contact and suggest plans, for looking like an increasingly unlikely potential nurse for their anticipated infirmities, and for generally falling short of all sorts of expectations that expand like a waistline in old age. It's easy to see that some of these don't give a damn about anyone else, they just want someone to wipe their ass and drive them around town for prescriptions; or they want someone else to shoulder all the burden of maintaining a friendship so that the DLer can reply, "No, I'm too busy complaining to not have friends that I can't be bothered wasting time on an imperfect friend such as you." And these hard cases wonder why they don't have friends, and why others are so disagreeable.

[quote] Now people think they're good friends if they text you an emoji. No suggestion of a meetup, or even asking a question. I've just cut one person off for that, after monthy "miss you" gifs. I said "let's not pretend anymore that you have any interest in spending time with me." Of course I never heard back, not even a fuck you, that's how little they cared lol.

R200, that's pretty bold and I wouldn't do that, but I can understand why you would send that text.

I do receive texts that consist of emojis, mostly. From somewhat random people. I just delete.

R197 Not the Millennial turds, buddy. Kids have nothing to do with it. Millennials have every personality disorder/mental illness known to man. These fuckers never even leave the house.

[quote]Millennials have every personality disorder/mental illness known to man. These fuckers never even leave the house.

People between the ages of 40 and 25 have every personality disorder/mental illness known to man and never leave the house?

My retired friends send pics of their kids, gardens, kitties... I don't acknowledge them as I don't want to encourage them to send me more.

r175, we're all in our early 50's.

And if a friend sent me a text saying "let's not pretend you have any interest in my life" I would wonder what I had done to deserve such hostility and if I couldn't point to anything other than not communicating in the way someone else wanted, I would likely respond with, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's not the case. If you wish to end this friendship, understand that's not what I want but since you appear to harbor unwarranted deep hostility towards me, perhaps ending the friendship is for the best."

Some friends, a couple, who ghosted me started emailing again - and then faded away again. Oh well, I'm not doing anything about it.

R214, I imagine they sent them a text to hang out multiple times and then with no follow up they then sent that blunt text. I don’t imagine it was out of the blue.

You bitches on DL are more entertaining than anyone I know in real life

R214 What a pussy wench, you are. DL vitriol is: may your cunt dry up forever so you'll never be fucked again.

Is English not your first language, r218? I have no idea what you are saying.

R219 I think English is not your first language. But glad to see you're proud of the command you've acquired.

R220 Yep. 219 is a moron. We speak Cuntanese here.

[quote]Not the Millennial turds, buddy. Kids have nothing to do with it. Millennials have every personality disorder/mental illness known to man. These fuckers never even leave the house.

I shouldn't think that too many friends is a problem of R211. When you're spitting fucking mad at a generation of people who made the mistake of being born between 1980/1 - 1995/6, who has time for friends?

I forgot the smartphone menace. I don't own a smartphone. Therefore, when I meet with someone in an individual/group situation, or for a coffee/drink/whatever, I give them my full attention. They give me perhaps 40 percent of their attention, because they're constantly checking their smartphones. I used to have a three-glance rule. Two glaces at their smartphone, I ignored. The third, I walked away. No explanation, just buh-bye.

The above may indeed illustrate why I don't have any friends. Or perhaps it illustrates why I can't be bothered to attempt friendship with people slavishly devoted to their techno-wanking device.

^^^ glaNces, not glaces ^^^

R223: It sounds more like an excuse not to bother, grandpa. If anyone asks, you can always rail against "kids today —some of them in the 60s and older— always with their dagnabbit new-fangled electro-techno contraptions, whatever they call them, running across my lawn and making mischief, even when I shake my fist at them! Fool whippersnappers!"

Pretty much agree with R223. The friends I like meeting only take their phones out to, say, show a pic germane to our chat, or to check a point. To that extent an underused phone enhances the chat.

I have of course been around people who often check their phones needlessly, and it just comes across as rude: as in, there's always the possibility of something more fun elsewhere, better than the here and now with you. I have so many other options! Which only makes one feel, why then are we meeting at all?

So what are they all doing with those phones? All I can think of is that they're looking at thousands and thousands of photographs on Instagram. All day long. Occasional texting too. It seems so fucking desperate. It really does make you see what mankind can be reduced to. They are total slaves to illusion, desperate to "belong" to something that doesn't really exist. I have a very close friend who goes to the country with me sometimes, to an area in the mountains where there is very spotty cell phone service, and none at all at the house (nor internet service): while I'm driving us around in the country there, he's got that fucking phone whipped out, checking for spots where he can pick up whatever shit it is he's so desperate to see. This is someone I've known for more than 30 years, and after a couple of weekends of this, I've realized I don't want to be around him any more. It's just too vapid and creepy.

^Maybe your friend is looking at DL!

He most definitely is not.

The older people I know who play on their phones in company are usually reading articles online (“listen to this!”). The younger people are usually on social media. I try really hard to stay off my phone in company, and do not pick it up at the table in a restaurant, ever, but sometimes if I’m at a bar or sitting around chatting I’ll be on my phone if others are relying on my responses to plan something, like a text chain of friends trying to organize an event.

Well, well, well look at Mr. Popular at r230. With friends at the bar while on his phone with friends making plans. Lol

Don’t feel bad R231, half the time it’s my family members blowing up my phone texting me until I respond about what the name of our neighbor was 20 years ago. I definitely am more able to ignore my phone since I turned off notifications.

R223, if you are as tedious, self-absorbed, and annoying as your post, it is clear why people prefer to check their phones when they are around you. I hardly blame them. You need to up your game and work at being more interesting and and pleasant to be with.

R222 Agreed. Never been a bigger generation of stupid mentally ill cunts ever born. Sickening. I loathe Millennials.

R182, I strongly disagree about the 20 age limit bu other have mentioned.

On the other hand, the telling people to stop initiating contact in order to see who the true friends are is really bad advice. It is never a good idea to intentionally test friends.

r235 and meanwhile, the friend has taken the same advice and stopped initiating contact as well.

[quote] if you are as tedious, self-absorbed, and annoying as your post

R233 is far too busy checking his phone to read his own tedious, self-absorbed posts. No surprise.

Not R223, but I didn't read it is as "self-absorbed" and I know self-absorbed because I CAN BE SELF-ABSORBED. He even said he wants to give the other person his "full attention." It is simply poor manners and an inability to live in the present vs some curated, photoshopped, fake instagram/tiktok world.

Reciprocity matters when meeting people and forming first impressions.

Yeah, the looking-at-phone thing is a turn-off. Older people do this as well, not just youngsters. It's really rude and the opposite of living in the moment and appreciating the person you are with, now, in the flesh. Geez. Should be obvious, but it's apparently not.

R239 to you point, yes older and younger people do it. I have a coworker in his 40s who does it at work all the damn time, even in staff meetings when the manager is talking to him.

And years ago when I was in my mid-20s, I had to train an older guy in his mid-40s who we had just hired. I was taking time out of my day and postponing things I had to do so that I could onboard him, familiarize him with our systems and processes. Time after time when we would meet and I would be explaining something, he would just pull his phone out and start scrolling through it or say he had to make a call. I eventually just told him if he could please stop because I found it disrespectful.

He apologized but kept doing it. Eventually I gave up and when our manager would walk by he would act like he was really learning everything. I knew he wasn't though. I think he didn't like being taught by someone 20 years younger than him but whatever. If you're trying to learn a new job that should be moot.

In any case, he made some huge work mistakes, one after the other, and was eventually fired in 6 months because he didn't understand how things worked. Had a family and kids too.

Moral of the story? STOP LOOKING AT YOUR FUCKING SMARTPHONES.

R240, how old was the boss? Seems like the 40s guy probably didn't like being trained by much younger people. Could be the reason why he kept looking at his phone (to show you all that you're not the bosses of him).

I've seen people in their 60s glued to their phones, scrolling and punching in whatever.

R241 Our boss at the time would have been his age, mid-40s. But yes, that's what I surmised as the reason for his constant lack of attention.

I love the people who claim they’re too busy to get together, yet you constantly see them commenting and posting on social media. They’re always the ones to respond to those stupid polls “you have to pick one food to go” bullshit.

Have you been pretending that Pete Davidson isn't hot? That could lose you a lot of friends, I've been told.

^He's hideous, are you joking?

I make a point now to be off my phone when taking to people or while I’m at work and not on break. I find that cell phone usage is a big source is my anxiety issues, and have taken steps to limit how much I check it—and it’s silent with no notifications turned on. It takes a week or so to break the impulse, but I find I am lot happier and more peaceful.

R240 is a classic frau story. Did you start a GoFundMe for this douche?

I don’t mind if someone looks at their phone once in a while, but I hate it when they look at their phone more than they pay attention to me. It’s totally fine to look at your phone if there is a lull in the conversation.

I used to have a friend who I would drive 2 hours to hang out with and he would be on his phone texting all the men on Grindr, Scruff, etc. or talking to his boyfriend. One time I saw him because I was having a crisis he literally went outside and talked to his boyfriend all night long.

I ended the friendship.

I wake up these days and can count maybe two or three actual real friends in my life. Covid was hard on me because most of my connections were acquaintances where the friendship didn't hold up or we just lost contact. Also going through a breakup didn't help. I stopped doing a few hobbies and activities because of it. I'd be happy with an activity partner - someone to travel with, go to concerts, etc.

r249, just curious as to the kind of concerts you like to attend.

I can't seem to maintain friendships as well. My biggest issue was that I have lived all over the world and moved often. It was hard to keep up with friends all the way across the globe. The truth is I don't seem to need a lot of other people.

I’d rather go somewhere by myself, than with someone who’s boring or with whom I can’t have a decent conversation

Have you never had a friend, R252?

"...Someone who’s boring or with whom I can’t have a decent conversation" is not like any friend I've ever had. Acquaintance, sure, but not a friend.

^Not since my husband died. He was a great wit and raconteur. It’s difficult to find many who meet that standard.

R250 - I like a lot of different music. Oldies, 70's, 80's, alternative, folk, rock, bluegrass and even country. Would love to do some of those destination concerts in a warm climate one of these days..

R255, I go to a lot of shows and a few festivals each year, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by destination concert...sorry, I'm old!

Coachella?

OK. Obviously I've heard of Coachella. But I always thought of that as a festival, and all 1 day+ festivals are destination festivals to me.

I don't have any friends either. I know why. I hate people. Actually, I still have one friend who has had the best friend title for the last 40 years but she lives in another state. We have nothing in common at all. She is a Christian and I am an atheist. She voted for Trump and I am liberal. I think the only reason we are friends is that she has the most irreverent humor and she makes me laugh all the time. We just don't talk about the stuff we don't agree on. I am pushing 72 and don't want to be bothered anymore.

^^^sense of humor

[quote] There are plenty of groups to join and meet others. Meetup is one of them. Lots of activities. Hiking, theatre, restaurants, etc.

But a lot of people who go to those things are old and ugly. I’ve seen the photos of their activities they post on Facebook and it’s like yuck, I could never see myself hanging with these weird fuggos. Maybe these groups would do better if they didn’t post photos and retained a bit of mystery to draw people in.

Honestly there is a lot of value in finding peace with being alone and being your own company. Groups are fine, but most organizations or activity groups require navigating a lot of crap from other people, and my threshold for bullshit is usually very low at the end of a work day/week. At the same time, too many people are very “all or nothing” when it comes to relating to others, and have trouble conceding or getting along for the greater good. Once someone says or does something they don’t like, they take their toys and go home.

Some of you really are miserable cunts.

And ALL Millennials are loathsome cunts. So?

I'm not a member of Metropolitan Community Church (the gay Protestant church) but I sometimes catch their NYC service on FB. There's all sorts of LGHTQ people there, some of them older gay men. It's definitely not the A-gays but I think, "These people have a community which they can probably call upon in time of need." That's what churches used to do and I think as Christianity started out among the poor of the Roman Empire Empire probably what the original Christians were like. More power to them. Some of you bitches might consider that even if you're not a believer. I've thought of moving back down South in retirement and would actually go to one of these churches if necessary. MCC is in many middle sized cities in the South (Richmond for instance) where bars might be the only other gay institution.

I have some friends, mostly from my participation in gay 12 step programs over the decades. Probably a similar dynamic to MCC.

I will add that MCC had social events and opportunities for volunteer work (eg food pantry for the poor of the neighborhood) so people can hang out there more than once a week.I'm sure there are some cunts in the organization but one has to find out what people are like in the group on balance.

NYC also has a gay social service center for the elderly with free dinners. The dinner part I think is suspended during Covid. But although still working and able to afford my own food whenever I was in Chelsea around 5PM I would stop in for a free meal back in the day. I could see myself using it more frequently once I retire. It is an opportunity to meet people. They had social workers there also. Gay men aging alone need to grab hold of any support they can. Other cities may have similar resources.

Hi R258, sorry for my delay. I meant music festivals in warm destinations, this is an example. Or something like Jazz Fest in New Orleans. Just one of those things I hope to do a few of in my lifetime.

R267, this looks fun. I go to a few festivals during the year, but try to stay within a few hours from home. The other festivals I've looked into attending are in cities (Shaky Knees, Beale Street) or is a roughing it experience (Bonaroo.)