Do women just hate men now?

They put up with them for the financial reward. Has always been thus, now they’re more vocal about their resentment.

Most are trained to fear men by their parents and society. Add to that, the many who do have traumatic early experiences with men, and it's no surprise they hate men.

Please, those saying they hate masculinity as the ones most attracted to toxic masculine traits.

Why do these socialist non-binary trans BLM supporting rich kids always end up with a conventionally straight acting white privileged male working in finance? It's even sadder when the outspoken activist is of color. How come they always end up with a white person?

Seems like they either are shouting “grow some balls, be a man” or “be more sensitive to my needs, hold be, love me, stroke me, protect me”. Confusing.

Glad I’m queer.

I don't think it's hatred per se. It's fear...and sadly, the fear is justified far too often. The sexualization of women doesn't wait until adolescence--it starts in early childhood and doesn't stop till old age, and even then, not really. There's a lot more sexual abuse than ever gets exposed. Honestly think most of the transing among girls is am attempt to avoid that shit, the expectations placed on them as women.

I agree that, sadly, many younger women have been raised by their (Boomer and Gen-X parents) to fear, loathe, and mistrust men. (And all men, not merely straight men.) I see this in my workplace more and more.

To them, all men are potential rapists, abusers, and harassers. Older men are creepy and especially suspect. Younger men may be desirable but they need to be "controlled" or re-educated or tamed.

And younger straight women travel and work "in packs" nowadays. There's more of a herd mentality among young, college-educated women that can be terrifying when you run up across it.

sounds like a huge pile of hooey, OP

Many women are financially independent now...not all, but a good portion. Years ago, women didn't work and the husband brought home the money. At that time, they had to think of how or who would take care of them financially.

Well, based on thousands of years of brutality, who can blame 'em? Men, in general, area more violent than women.

R9, that explains why trannies are so aggressive and violent.

But gender is a social construct. Men and women are actually exactly the same.

Not many women identify as a feminist.

R2 I sometimes have to question even when say they have through “trauma” in their past. I’m just saying, more and more women use trauma language in everyday parlance and it can be a little misleading.

I was friends with this girl who told me she had been raped — the word she used — by a guy that me and some of her other friends knew. And st first I had like a visceral reaction. I wanted to go kick his ass! And I had every intention of hitting him the next time I saw him. But something told me to double back and get more information.

So I asked her what happened, and she said that they had gone out with some other people to a bar, he was the DD, she had gotten kind of tipsy — her word, again — and they wound up hooking up after he took every one else home. She said she felt like she couldn’t say stop during the encounter because she was drunk so she just “got it over with”. And then she goes: “I wasn’t even really into like that. I was already kind of seeing someone else at the time.”

I sat and listened but in my mind I was thinking, wow this is complete BS. She got drunk and impulsively slept with a guy and at no point did she try to stop the encounter. And to top it off, she was cheating on her then boyfriend. I’m like, this is what a false rape allegation sounds like. And mind you, this is something she’d told several of our other friends who also knew the guy as well as posted about on social media.

And the thing I’ve told this story to other women I know — keeping names out of it of course — and other women have said stuff like “well what he took advantage of her bf side she was drunk? He should’ve made sure she wanted to do it”. And I’m like, her being drunk wasn’t his fault and she wasn’t taken advantage of just because she regrets her decision once she sobered up.

It just left me with a really bad taste in my mouth.

I'd say that with the efforts of second and third wave feminism, women have continued to be infantilized. This has always been an issue, but you'd think that the feminist movement would've pushed against it. For example, women do not have responsibility for anything negative that happens to them or society. The patriarchy causes homelessness, gang violence, capitalism, wars, domestic abuse, child abuse, etc. The mainstream (historically conservative) media has done a good job of infantilizing women for a LONG time now, but you would think the feminist movement would go against it. Remember the story of Adam and Eve? Many view it as anti-feminist because Eve caused the fall of humankind. But this woman had agency and responsibility, and yet somehow this is an anti-feminist narrative, which I disagree with. Although it was used as justification for the subjugation of women, I think the story also displays the power that women can have over men and against God. So if men have all the responsibility, and all the power, what does that make us? It makes us the adults. It makes women children. This dimorphism and dynamic is gross when you think of it, and it explains why women in straight porn have fully shaved bodies and talk like babies.

Maybe they're just more open about being open to samesex... than among (down low) males, where it carries far more of a stigma?

There's more hatred now because more women are more sluttier than ever. So women can't manipulate men with sex as easily because it's so cheap and plentiful now.

And as women age, they get especially upset because they wasted their prime years in their 20s partying when they could have married a decent guy. But now they're stuck with the loser dudes on dating apps. And no one wants to marry them. They just want booty calls with desperate MILFS.

This. I’m in Massachusetts which is one of the most liberal and blue states in the country. I know women who’s social media pages would make Andrea Dworkin proud. Feminism, domestic violence support memes, “teach your sons not to rape” memes, state their pronouns, identify as “bisexual” or “queer” and post LGBT memes and in blue ass Boston, they always manage to find the most conservative right wing sexist, homophobic Trump supporters to date.

Women have no sympathy for men and see them as the stronger sex and dismiss any concept men are vulnerable. For example, there is a meme floating around that states “I wish I could wear headphones at night when I’m jogging” - meaning women are too afraid to jog and listen to music at night in care they are attacked. First of all, statistically men are at a higher risk of being attacked in public - both assault and robbery. And secondly, a lot of men I know either know how to physically defend themselves OR carry something like a pocket knife on them when they are out at night (or day). OR they accept that the world is dangerous and choose to take the risk, which is an idea these feminists reject.

The other issue is the under reporting of male sexual assault. Sexual assault has two different definitions between men and women. If you ask a man have you ever been sexually assaulted, a lot of men would say NO. Then you ask, have you ever been touched inappropriately without consent and you would get more men to say YES. By a woman? Yes.

I’ve been sexually assaulted by both men and women according to women’s definition of sexual assault. I don’t believe there’s only a few men who experienced what I did. The worst incidents happened while I was at work.

I do believe women are most vulnerable to rape.

Maybe and I think straight men are hating women as well other than as someone to fuck. In the end, straight men are the ones who get screwed by women. No matter how progressive and woke my female friends are, they still expect the man to pay for everything in terms of dates, going out, etc. Their logic is that it costs a lot to make themselves attractive to men. With society granting both men and women the privilege to now say that it's OK to not want children or that having children really isn't all it's cracked up to be, there is less incentive to get married, especially for the man. Even the best intended fathers typically always lose out in custody in divorce and are stuck paying some nagging bitch for life.

There is a huge double standard with women and their "safety" around men. In the exact same circumstance and approach, the hot guy is a romantic while the not so attractive guy is sexually harassing. With apps like Tinder, etc, guys can have sex without the commitment. Unless you really want a family, there really does not seem like much reward for men to enter into a traditional married with children scenario. You are stuck with a woman for life who often loses interest in sex after having children, so by 40. That leaves about 30+ years of no sex for a man or having to seek it out on the side.

Yes. Yes we do. And they have had it coming for a long time. (Straight men)

Modern women are so dependent on alcohol and anti-depressants.

Because ALL women are the same!

R16 Your post implies marriage works out these days, which just isn’t true. In modern times, marriage has become more nonsensical to both parties involved. No one wants to have sex with the same person for 40 years. You say women are upset they partied instead of finding a decent guy but I find the opposite to be true. Most women I know regret getting hitched so early. And as for dating apps and single mothers, that is the inevitable no matter which path one takes, considering how high the divorce rate is.

[quote] Modern women are so dependent on alcohol and anti-depressants.

This is so true. Alcoholism around wine has been integrated into the female zeitgeist. A topic for another thread of which there have been several.

Women have a biological need to be dominated by men. Deep down they are bitter and angry that men have become so weak to allow feminism to get to this ridiculous point and they are waiting for men to put them back in their place.

"Women have a biological need to be dominated by men. "

Very true. Just look at the popularity of all this BDSM romance/erotica women read by the truckload.

R3 It is no wonder because there really is less toxic masculinity in white men, they tend to be a bit gentler, although there are just enough misogynists among them too.

I refuse to speak with people going on and on about how men are more violent and all the shit they have pulled throughout history but then turn a blind eye to all the good contributions throughout history.

R19 I don't hate men, I love them. Gay or straight.0

White Christian men are the ideal.

I'm a lesbian and I used to be extremely indoctrinated in the whole feminist schtick throughout middle school and high school. Then I realized I didn't agree with it all and started becoming indoctrinated in the radical feminist side of things. Yeesh, big mistake. That was many years ago and now I don't call myself a feminist at all. It's crazy because a lot of young girls talk about these ridiculous feminist concepts and phrases amongst each other and have no real basis for what they're talking about. It's simply presented as the right and compassionate way to think and God help you if you disagree. In fact, I don't have any of the same friends from high school because they all "canceled" me for denouncing feminism and all the bullshit it brings.

For me, I kind of think that the feminism outlet was a way for my young and closeted self to express my homosexuality. Now that I'm out I realize that all of that was just posturing. As one would assume, I've found the most stable women to be ones who are not feminists. When I was traveling in the radical feminist circles, I met some of the most insane, unstable, and self-victimizing women. I'm not exaggerating when I say that all of the radical feminists that I met were in terrible places in their lives. None of them had good jobs and they were all over 30. I swear to god, one of them worked as a part time janitor in an elementary school. Oh, bless the internet for allowing us to see how fucking crazy other people are. Anyway, I'm thankful to have gone through that philosophical rebirth because now I'm impenetrable to ideological manipulation, I think. At least I don't think Bruce Jenner is stunning and brave.

Women are generally miserable creatures, full of petty jealousies.

Women have it too easy now. All this time on their hands to bitch, bitch, and bitch some more.

Sheesh!

R30, as a woman, I can sympathize. The worst thing is that if you dare to toe outside the line or think differently, they will denigrate you more harshly and cruelly than how they accuse men of doing to women. Not all feminists but for sure the more radical ones.

I don't know, OP, but from this thread I gather men certainly hate women.

I assume it's a gay myth that you get bullied at school by bigger, tougher, "cooler" guys and it's traumatizing, because none of you seem to have any sympathy for women who feel similarly threatened, nor any ability to imagine that those same guys as adults might choose to bully women because, like the stereotypical gay kid, women are smaller and weaker.

In R13's scenario, the guy was in the trusted role of designated driver and was sober, yet he deliberately dropped off a drunk girl last in hopes of hooking up with her, and presumably initiated sex (because she talked about just getting it over with). So while he may not have raped her, he was a predator - perhaps premeditated, perhaps only opportunistic - and he took advantage of her. How would you feel about it if it had been her Uber driver?

The moral of that story is, don't take advantage of women when their defences are down, reasoning that you have more chance of being successful that way. Nowadays, when their defences go back up you run the real risk of finding yourself Toast - and yes, in some cases you might get burned beyond what is reasonable. What men are objecting to is having to manage that risk for the first time. Fortunately for them, as R17 inspiringly tells us, the world is a risky place and real men accept this.

[quote] I assume it's a gay myth that you get bullied at school by bigger, tougher, "cooler" guys and it's traumatizing, because none of you seem to have any sympathy for women who feel similarly threatened, nor any ability to imagine that those same guys as adults might choose to bully women because, like the stereotypical gay kid, women are smaller and weaker.

I was bullied by these guys and their equivalent female counterparts laughed right along with them. It is not a myth.

I don't believe all woman, or all POC, or all white people. You can't just toss a life destroying allegation with nothing to back it up and expect it to go unquestioned. That was an alarming trend. Women shot themselves in w/ #metoo b/c too many of the bad apples came out and were disproved.

R34: Elizabeth Banks.

WHET happened to Elizabeth Banks. I liked her in some of her quirkier roles like Hunger Games and Pitch Perfect.

Meh. I grew up with these chickadees raised on girl power/'I am (bi)sexual female, hear me roar.'

99% of them all ended up fraus, married to men, posting gushing pics of their special, precious children.

R37, she’s resorted to advocating on the DL after her Charlie’s Angels film flopped. Hard.

R34 Kudos to you. I like your compassionate insight.

Women are just freer to express themselves these days including negative experiences they had with men. It's not a taboo anymore. Of course women should not be treated like children and take the responsibilities as adult people. Of course some are exaggerating and playing victims for profit.

But I wouldn't dismiss feminism so lightly as one of the female posters. Until less then 100 years ago women were still kind of slaves and without feminism, where would we be now.

I am a completely straight girl, one of these 0 in Kinsey scale, so of course I don't hate men. I like guys. But unlike that poster who claims women need to be dominated, I must say he is projecting his own needs. Some women do, I don't . I like gentle and kind guys. Hypermasculine is really not my kind, au contraire. Timothee Chalamet is my kind of guy.

Women either have agency over AND accountability for their life choices, their bodies, their sexuality... or they don't.

We've raised a couple of generations of young women who see themselves as helpless child-victims to be preyed upon, with few consequences for their own behavior and speech. This is pretty much the opposite of feminism, if you ask me.

We're moving backwards as a society.

Marriage protects women.

I don't know OP, for the entirety of human civilization women have been shoved into the background. Men hold power through intimidation and violence or the threat of violence particularly rape. Go all the way back to ancient Greece, Rome or any other civilization and there will be little to nothing about women in history.

How much longer do you think human civilization should be able to go on without women getting tired of getting shit on? As if the previous thousands of years wasn't bad enough now you have men who claim they are really women muscling to the front of the line to control everything related to women and their bodies.

It's way past time women got angry.

Women need to embrace their role as mothers.

It is what you were created for.

Leave the empire building to men.

[quote]I am a completely straight girl, one of these 0 in Kinsey scale, so of course I don't hate men. I like guys.

r40 there are plenty of men who are as straight as you say you are who hate women. They just need them to fuck and have families with otherwise they are useless to them. So you could hate men, but still want to fuck them, the two are not mutually exclusive.

R17

R18 True

r41 a white women friend of mine once admitted that young girls are raised to be polite and not make waves. They are taught to be agreeable and not disagree or court male disapproval. Women in most cultures are raised this way, are you saying you are blind to this?

The reason I mentioned that she is white is because I am not white and although the Black girls I was raised with were raised to have manners, Black women are far less likely to be agreeable just to spare some guy disapproving of them. One thing Black guys like about dating white girls is that you can walk all over them and they won't say anything about it.

Why should women be angry unless they are being actively stopped from doing what they want?

I am not going to say women have not been oppressed in the past but the idea that men have held us down actively and purposedly for centuries out of...insecurities? I guess and no women dared challenge them is the type of black and white, nuanced lacking viewpoint that I can't buy. Gender roles were born out of necessity, not oppression. Did that sometimes screw women out of what they really wanted? Sure. It did the same for men in many ways. And when technology made the gender roles more and more redundant, feminists rightly called them out. I just find it insulting as a woman to be told that it took us sooo damm long to get out of from under the evil man's thumb. I don't buy it. I never did.

R13 false accusations are wicked. I am glad you didn't assault the guy.

Look r49 if you are a woman and the history of the planet doesn't bother you then congratulations.

So you think the gender roles that required women to cower in hiding during every war and skirmish while the men fought was necessary? I don't know. I look at human history and every loser in history had their women raped and brutalized, and in some cases the children brutalized and murdered along with the elderly. Why not teach the women to fight as a last line of defense for themselves and their children?

The only answer I could think of is that it gives the women power and it gives them permission to find the courage to fight back.

But maybe I'm wrong and it's just good use of gender roles as you put it.

r49 you are deluded if you think you are out from under anyone's thumb.

[quote] She said she felt like she couldn’t say stop during the encounter because she was drunk so she just “got it over with”.

Maybe she shouldn't have gotten so drunk that she didn't feel up to objecting. This is the less extreme version of women who get so wasted that they pass out and make themselves vulnerable to assault.

R51 I would guess that that has more to do with the fact that reproductively men are more redundant than women than it being about some need to over power women...what good is power if you're dead?

R49 I agree. It is actually men who have to adhere to their gender roles by law these days while women have been freed of them decades ago. That depends of course on the country but most western countries assumed men to be privileged and didn't even care to grand them equality with women.

R52 thanks for telling me how oppressed I am. It's so empowering and liberating. Here was I thinking I could do everything I set my mind to and you just gave a major dose of reality...why even try now amirite?

[quote]I kinda floated this theory in a recent thread but I think the reason so many young people identify as gay or bi really boils down to a soft hatred of men

Maybe. But I think social media has limited interactions between younger people. They don't have as many real close friends as we did. Social media friends aren't really friends.

So many younger people feel like they have anxiety and depression. I didn't even know the word anxiety until I 23 yrs old. There are so many different websites that tell people they may have anxiety and depression because they're in the wrong body. Identifying as trans gives them a community to belong to

R51 Why did feminists shame men into going to war then? Seems to me that they suddenly enjoyed their gender role of being "at home in their kitchens"..

I am SO happy to be a homo.

These women are ungrateful for what they have. Straight men are hot.

And after reading some of your idiotic comments, I see why. Nothing like a misogynistic queen opining about humans with vaginas, something about which he knows fuck all nothing.

R43 Women had rights in Egypt and similar but less rights in Mesopotamia.

And I agree to what you’re saying to an extent but this mindset erases the politics of female society during these time periods.

For example, the biggest anti-women’s suffrage groups were predominantly women. Just like the biggest anti-abortion groups today are predominantly women.

40% of American slave owners were women. And if you want to get into slavery and colonization of the Americas, read up on Isabella I.

As far as Greek and Rome, there’s plenty of women I admire or love because they were ruthless. Mark Antony’s wife Fulvia ran a Roman mafia and fought a battle against Octavian, Alexander the Great’s mother Olympias in Greece, Nero’s mother Agrippina. Women didn’t have rights in Rome but there are women who heavily influenced the outcome of the politics in Rome.

When you actually read about the politics of Greece and Rome, while you’re right women have been erased, women were very much there.

A lot of women find men unnecessary these days. If you aren't interested in children, why bother? is the thinking

And side note because I talked about ancient history, it’s so interesting how Cleopatra has been depicted throughout history and how even women adopt and idolize her as a seductress.

But she was nothing of the kind and the narrative of her dying with Mark Antony is false. She most likely tricked him into committing suicide and she committed suicide with her homegirls in her mausoleum. They are depicted as her servants - one was her hairdresser and the other, Charmion, was NOT a servant. She was apart of Cleopatra’s council and was working for Antony’s state council.

R46 Oh wow!

R63 That’s not true at all. Studies show women still want to get married but the lack of financially stable and social status of men are declining. Less men are going to college and getting fancy jobs so women are at a standstill of selectiveness.

Marriage is social hierarchy to women. Just like the standards of beauty. They are not defined my men, they are defined by women. Women didn’t cut out photos from Playboy and hang them on their fridge to starve themselves, they hung photos from Vogue and Cosmopolitan. Women don’t wear claw nails and heavy makeup to appeal to men, they do it to compete with women. And that’s what marriage can be as well.

Weddings and engagement rings and shit are totally a woman’s game.

They still want to get married because they want kids R66. But there's a huge increase in women who don't want kids and that lowers the desire for marriage. I agree marriage is for women, but more women than ever before are not getting married and they could easily force a man's hand by refusing to date or sleep with them. I'm actually seeing the beginning of it already, young pretty women with no baggage refusing to enter the dating world because the men have nothing to offer.

I suspect that if straight men continue down this path of joblessness, coupled with typical male immaturity and slobiness then it will go back to the olden days of men not getting laid until they have a good steady job and a marriage proposal. Women aren't as desperate as men to get laid so it's not that they hate men, it's more of an attitude of what do they have to offer. And in many cases, if not the majority, they have nothing at all to offer. So some women have chosen to avoid them.

You speak from a position of privilege and insulation of you think the problem with the fact that "so many women look at being approached by a man as one of safety" is a defect in the woman's outlook.

"Persistent" in what? Convincing someone who is not interested to get interested? That's the definition of harassment. They'll accept "fuck off" as an answer from a certain type of women. They're looking for a girl or woman who they can "wear down." That is predatory .

"So many women on social media speak about their interactions with men in trauma language." Naturally, the sheer volume makes it implausible, right? Just like the scuttlebutt in the Catholic church or U.S. Gymnastics had to be slander from a handful of loons or people with an axe to grind until there was enough critical mass to break cases open.

The subject is too big to sum up on DL. Some thoughts that come to mind are it's not even necessarily a male/female issue-- it's more of a mentality issue. There's a cultural paradigm that men can take as they please -- including sexually from girls and boys, and young women, and then exploit the labor of adult and older women -- and, by and large, families and institutions will support them. These institutions are so vested in protecting the perpetrator that sometimes just recognizing that the thing that happened was abuse is the first step in navigating life.

R30 Wouldn't "no longer a feminist" mean you think women are inferior to men? I'm curious to know if that's what you believe now. I thought feminists, in simplest terms, believe in equality amongst the sexes.

[quote] A lot of women find men unnecessary these days. If you aren't interested in children, why bother? is the thinking

And what about the cock?

R69 Not op but the idea of gender equality precedes the word "feminism" so why would one have to use the word "feminist" to describe someone believing in that idea?

R70 They sell those now. In every shape and size.

R49 what necessity was it, by chance, that legally kept married women from owning property? Staying home to take care of children is logical but you're either A) in denial B) an ignorant fuck or C) a troll if you think legally barring women from financial independence was anything other than ACTIVE oppression by men. Now go fuck yourself, we know no man wants to.

"Now go fuck yourself, we know no man wants to."

Thanks for empowering me.

P.S They actually do tho ; )

R44 I beg to differ.

Elizabeth Regina I

Catherine the Great

Cleopatra

Boudicca

Hillary Clinton

Angela Merkel

Christine Lagarde

Indira Ghandi

OP, do men hate women? It's far more common for men to kill their wives or gfs than it is for women to kill men

And even gay men like yourself accuse women of hating men to cover up your own misogyny

Let's give men primary custody of children and make the women pay alimony and child support to the men and then we'll talk.

Straight people are just sick.

Lots of the gay incels here like to brag about straight men, but even though I believe that only 5% of the population is gay, I still think my odds of finding a good man are better than the odds of most women finding one even though they get 45% of the population. Most straight men are total losers.

As for women, the ones I find hypocritical are usually the wealthy liberal ones.

Most of the girls I went to college too were super liberal, completely outspoken about politics and against the patriarchy. Yet within ten years, most of them had married a conservative man and they would no longer talk about politics because their husbands would be the type to go on and on about politics if you disagreed with them. They'd be the types that would act outraged if a poor black man catcalled them on the street but kept quiet when the hot rich frat boys acted worse. And even the ones that married liberals always complain about how passionless their husbands are. How they just want them to come in and have animalistic sex with them. I tell them: well, you should initiate it, but no, they always insist it's not the same if they initiate it.

So glad I'm gay. Even the most dramatic lesbians I've met didn't have anywhere near the same amount of drama straight couples do.

Gay and lesbians are dramatic as hell! Still better than being straight.

Word up, R76

R76, Men are much more likely to protect women over other men too, so how does that work?

R80 I don't know to what extent and in what situations this is true nowadays. I recently saw a woman assaulted in public and despite many onlookers, it was two women who interceeded. (I was dialing 911 from inside the store where this happened in front of.) Men present casually looked on or videotaped. Also, after a crime against a woman, it seems like most men and a lot of women tend to shield the man ("awful what happened, but don't want to ruin his future.")

I was actually surprised that gen z girls are into daddies and their fav books are mafia boss that would kidnapped them and tattooed bad boys who grabbed them around their necks and slapped them and I learned all these on tik tok a far cry from twitter.

A lot of people have gotten away with bad behavior for far too long. People aren't putting up with that shit quietly anymore.

Don't be an abusive dick. It's really not that hard. And no - it isn't manly and it is something you can control.

I'm talking about a wide range of toxic behavior - not just toward women. And some men are pissed that they can't be assholes anymore - fuck em.

Having a filthy dirty cunt has always been a bitch.

Women and girls lead happier and healthier lives without men. From what I’ve seen, all the misery brought into women’s lives, is brought by men.

R81, Ok, there are obviously exceptions to everything. But statistics don't lie.

Women bitch with their girlfriends instead of resolving problems face-to-face with their men.

There is nothing most vocal feminists love more than being a victim. Everything in the world is out to get them because they are a woman, no matter how smart or moneyed or good looking they may or may not be, feminism is their “get out of jail free” card for any insane behavior, or an excuse for why they’re not doing well.

I support equal rights, but the victim complex and the infantilization of adult women is insane. Feminism isn’t about equal treatment for women, it’s about preferential treatment for women. You are not “abused” because you were a 19 year old who fucked a middle aged man! Are women empowered, or are they children you have to handle with kiddie gloves?

Yeah and women are angels that fart Chanel n 5.

Women can and are just as toxic as men...maybe not as outright physically violent, but men have nothing on women when it comes to toxicity./

I watched Marge Cho's I'm the One that I want "film" last night and she has a joke that fag hags are the pillar of gay men's lives. Like gay men cannot exist without the revolting smelly fish. I have never even known one gay man who had a long term fag hag. It has always been true that gay men have had zero need for fish of any sort. They are as redundant and pointless as men's nipples.

R90 men's nipples can actually be very erogenous zone for them. You'd know that if you were worth half a cent in bed. Just a tip from another redundant and pointless fish endowed person.

Margaret Cho sucky Chris Isaak godzilla cock.

Life no fair.

Boo hoo.

Yen.

R91 Gross. Get off here, fish. What you is selling we don't want it. Ever. I haven't watched I'm the one that I want in years and most of the jokes were still hugely funny. In real life, I doubt she actually knows many gay men as best buds. It is all just part of her act. She has to kiss gay men's asses for coin and that's all.

Is OP a man? I hate OP.

Women should listen more, talk less.

I miss the old days when it was: females or children should be seen and NOT heard.

Boring troll ruined an otherwise interesting thread.

R97 Like a female positive thread could ever happen on here, stupid cunt. Gay men have no use for the fish.

R48 I wouldn't agree with you, I truly think you are comforting yourself by twisting the truth. All the statistics prove that black women are treated far worse by their men then white women in US. There is much more domestic violence towards them, they are frequently left to raise kids all alone, they make the small percentage of American women, yet the biggest percentage of the female Aids patients, because they are infested by their promiscuous partners. Black women have let their men treat them horribly, so you are deluding and lying to yourself when you say that they wouldn't take shit from them. Until recently it was a question of pride for a black woman to marry exclusively within her race. On the contrary a black man who had success in life married white women as a status symbol. I am happy to see that black women are slowly starting to raise their head and demand some respect.

On the contrary, even though domestic violence and misogyny exists in white community, white women are treated better, usually get support from their husbands in raising kids, and financial support. White men generally tend to be more devoted husbands.

It is true that middle class white girls are raised to be nicer and softer, to smile even when they want to scream. It is a thing in middle class culture and men are thought to control their impulses too, only in a different way. Working class white people are not brought that way.

But one thing I notice that people get wrong. They mistake female roughness and aggressive behavior for emancipation. While I notice that only women who were treated kinder from the early age have the luxury to be feminine. Women from Western Europe and middle class Americans are more feminine than oppressed women from third world or from communities where girls are treated harsh. When treated harsh they become harsh and more masculine. It is a defense mechanism.

I too am looking soft and sweet, but would kick in the ass a guy that wouldn't show me love, respect and kindness.

R99 is Janet Jackson. She don't ever let nobody tell her she ain't strong enough. You go, black girl.

R45 It is not just because I am completely straight woman. I really like guys and don't just want to fuck them and use them, like straight misogynists with women. But I only like sweet and nice guys.

I dislike aggressive and hypermasculine men and misogynists. Keep these assholes far from me.

But being 100% straight doesn't mean I am the type that doesn't get along with other women. I love female company, there is just nothing sexual between us. You gay guys probably understand me.

R100 Feminine girls are the ones who are free to be themselves. Women who imitate men are the ones who are under male dominance.

Well remember women (especially white women) are in some ways the most ultra-privileged people of all. And today’s modern discourse, that won’t do.

So many millennial and genz women have to play up male oppression in order to get social media cred. That’s why some women play it up to hysterical levels.

Now that that’s out of the way, yes women often DO get subjected to shitty behavior by men. They get touched, harassed and followed in public. They get patronized at work. They get treated terribly on social media. Sometimes women actually get treated lousy by other women, but a lot of the physical harassment and threats come from men.

If I were a woman I think I’d have, at best, a love-hate relationship with men, tbh.

I think men and women have long had a love/hate relationship between the 2,

R3 This is true. The ones that are the most vocal and zealous about " drinking male tears" and " ewww white men are the worst and are all dirty sex abusers" are always the ones who can't go two minutes without white dick, even if the guy is on drugs or personality disordered, and are settled into the suburban frau life shortly after college. The ones who are genuinely less traditional tend to just quietly do their own thing.

R104 That is right. It is a hard relationship because there is so much difference between us. It is easier for you gay guys and for lesbians, even though you have problems with homophobes, but it is so much easier to have a partner of your own sex, who is so much more similar to you.

It’s the reason why some girls want to transition to FTM.

R103 A lot of contradiction in your post. On one hand women are most privileged, on the other they are harassed, mistreated, hated etc.

And yet remain deathly afraid of men, R107.

R105, yes, it reminds me of all the women bitching about how they are "forced" to wear high heels, bra's, nail polish, wax every part of their body, be super thin, etc. No one is forcing them and if you don't want to do any of the above things......DON'T. It's not hard.

R107 I am compassionate with people who feel they are in the wrong skin, but that would be a silly reason to pass all the torments of transition. Become a man so you can have relationships with men.

But are gay men into trans men at all? I, with all respect and compassion, wouldn't want a guy with vagina.

R110 on the contrary it's very hard to go against beauty standards as a woman, that's why so many men use a woman's looks as an attack on their femininity. It's all over the DL constantly.

R110 Look, I am the one that is 0 on Kinsey scale and I don't wear high heels (only on some super extra occasion), no nail polish, wax legs only in summer, have few extra pounds. I only wear bra, cause I don't have plums.

And R112 it is not so hard to go against beauty standards, but you got to have an attitude, be a Pussy with attitude to paraphrase the name of the rap band.

[quote] many younger women have been raised by their (Boomer and Gen-X parents) to fear, loathe, and mistrust men

This is exactly how women were raised 100 years ago, except instead of men being the target of their irrational angst, it was people of color. The more things change ...

So to get away with it a woman has to act like a bitch? I don't know if that's going to serve women very well in society. Really it's the attractive ones who can get away with an attitude, if any of them can

The comments in this is interesting esp the one with 21k likes about that realizations on misogyny and the feeling on disconnection with womanhood and why some transition at all.

R115 If you meant me I don't act like a bitch. I am the nicest girl in earth, a Mary. But I meant attitude as I don' t give a shit what unimportant people think.

OP = troll

R117, exactly. You can do your own thing without being a bitch about it.

And who cares about the guys that wouldn't like my style, let them have their Barbie dolls or Stepford wives. It 's not like they are Timothee Chalamet that i would care for their opinion.

No r108, you just have to step away from simple binary thinking.

Can a woman do her own thing though? I don't think women who let their body hair grow out or women who let their sagging tits fly about unharnessed are going to bring themselves anything but ridicule and harassment. We're not talking about wearing flared jeans when skinny jeans are in style, we're talking about beauty expectations that make the difference between being an outcast or a pariah.

^^wrong comparison, hit enter too soon

R121 I am not non binary tough.

[quote] imagine that those same guys as adults might choose to bully women because, like the stereotypical gay kid, women are smaller and weaker.

FWIW, I’m a woman, who was bullied as a middle-high school girl by a boy in my class. And I mean bullied in the sense of psychological—gaslighting, rumour-spreading, belittling, leading-on, vicious humiliating set-ups. It was all very GOSSIP GIRL.

Still don’t really understand why he did it—guess he was just a socio who smelled out that I was an insecure girl unsure of myself and my sex/uality back then.

R125 the most vicious bullies when I was in school were boys too they never hit the girls but they psychologically terrorized them.

R122 there is a minimum set of standards of appearance for men and women that if you fall out of completely can be difficult. That doesn't mean I have to follow every single standard. I almost never wear high heels for instance, or use nail polish or wax myself bare down there (though I try to keep things tidy enough). I only use a bra if its very noticeable. I do enough, and what I do do is because I want to and what I don;t is because I do. And there are actually women who manage to go almost completely out of it. Patti Smith for instance. And her hairy armpitted self still managed to get guys after her.

R127 My granny used to say: men are like dogs, the more smelly you are, the more they will be after you.

R128, probably worked for Patti since Andy Warhol has gone on record saying she had terrible b.o. And she still got hot guys.

R125 R126 Come to think of chilhood, yes, guys are at least just as bitchy as girls, if not even more.

And I remember some grown family friends and neighbors when I was little girl, they were nasty in a bitchy way, saying to a child humiliating things, non sexual, grown ass straight men.

Let's face it. With all the emotions, children, manipulations, vulnerabilities - women are just not suited for leadership. Our first female VP is an epic bust. Women can be the victims and can also work the second tier jobs.

R132, men have children, too. Not just women.

R13 That reminds me of an incident in college. I lived in an apartment with three other guys. I had a paper due, so while they had friends over partying I stayed in my room writing. A girl from the building was one of the partiers. She was someone I had expressed interest in before. After they had been drinking for a few hours, she knocked on my door. I let her come in, we talked for a few minutes, she made a move, I told her not tonight. The thing was I really was attracted to her and had wanted to hookup for awhile, but I was completely sober and she very much was not. So she went out to the party and announced I was a "fag."

I wasn't out to my roommates as bi, but they had my back and kicked her out and never had her back over. Because they said, I did the right thing for whatever reason. They were like she is a crazy bitch, if I had hooked up with her she would've cried rape but because I didn't "rape" her I had to be gay. Plus, two of the roommates had hooked up with her and they said "Dude, you didn't miss anything."

R132 as is evidenced by the epic decay of the world now, it's pretty obvious men aren't suited for leadership.

R132 You can think women can be in positions of power without thinking all women should be. It is one reason I never liked the media's response that every person who didn't like Obama was racist. Were some of them racist, yes.

But, I personally knew Republican and GOP leaning "independent" voters who would have gladly voted for Colin Powell, Condi Rice, etc... They didn't like Obama not because he was black but because he was a Democrat. Just as many of those same voters loved Sarah Palin, Nikki Haley, etc... but hated Hillary. They didn't hate her because she was a woman but because she was Hillary. Just like when Democrats think Sen. Tim Scott or Hershel Walker shouldn't be elected, they aren't saying NO black men should be elected, just that those particular black men shouldn't be.

Aren’t the most stable countries in the world governed by female politicians as a majority/sizeable presence? Like Scandinavian nations.

R136 obviously some people don't think that, based on their own illogical cherry picking.

[quote]a white women friend of mine once admitted that young girls are raised to be polite and not make waves.

That's bullshit. If a white girl is acting like that it's because of external stimuli. There is no mechanic in place for "raising white girls to be slaves to men". It might turn out that way for someone, but no one is actively teaching that.

R139 A girl I went to school with said something like that on Facebook, about how she was raised. I replied, then why were you a bossy, impolite bitch from kindergarten all the way through senior year? She blocked me.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

T76 Men are harder for a woman to kill, that’s why throughout history, when they do, they use things like poison. Women kill children. Babies. They don’t kill people who are stronger than them, they kill people who are weaker than them. Look at killer nurses.

R80 Exactly. Plenty of men have died for women. Didn’t someone post a video a few weeks ago of a man dying trying to save a stupid woman stuck on a rock during a huge wave in the ocean? Women don’t die or risk their lives for men. There are more men who will take a billet for their wives than women who will take a bullet for their husbands.

A woman will die for her children. Once a lot of women have children, their husbands become worthless to them.

R81 You should see the videos of women beating men in public. People just laugh.

I'd be interested to see the statistics in baby killers by gender. REAL gender, not the made up gender of today R142. Also please post the statistics of percentage of women killing other women vs men killing other women.

Excuse me, meant to say men killing other men

R142 also, you state women kill people weaker than them. Are you trying to pretend that men only kill men stronger than themselves? You make a lot of bold statements about women that are easily if not more applicable to men. Not sure why you think you are disproving anything.

There is NO DATA that shows female on female violence. I guess it means it doesn’t happen! Good luck finding it!

Both men and women kill their children at similar rates but men kill their older children while women kill their babies.

Here’s one where it states: In cases where children are killed intentionally, women are more likely to kill babies and newborns, particularly in circumstances of unwanted pregnancies. Such offenders are more likely to be young and have low levels of social support, although it is increasingly reported among older women.

The article also says the studies integrates stepfathers into the statistic which is bullshit.

Women have changed over the past 3 decades. I always loved women,and most of my great friends were indeed women,but Ive gotten to where i cant stand women anymore. Theyve turned into rude,bitchy,demanding assholes ,especially the ones under 40 . I'll tell you something else about women Ive always known,they secretly hate each other. They are all after the same prey (those reviled men) and are bloodthirsty when it comes to getting them. Ive seen sisters fuck over sisters,lifelong friends talk about each other like dogs behind each others backs,you name it. And that bullshit about mothers dying for their children ? That died out about 30 years ago too. Ive known women who ruthlessly manipulate their childre,scarring them psychologivally ,to get back at their ex's.

R71 I don't know what you mean by, "... the idea of gender equality [comes before] the word "feminism" so why would one have to use the word "feminist" to describe someone believing in that idea?" Are you trying to say if feminism encompasses gender equality? Anyway, the word/concept is needed because many people continue to believe men are superior, as evidenced right here in this thread.

R148...the copncept i needed...the word.....why?

So in other words R146, you've proven nothing. And you know as well as I do that the rates of men killing their physical equals is larger than women's.

R149 Nevermind. I can't understand what you're trying to say. I don't think "precedes" means what you think it does.

R145 I didn’t say men only kill stronger, men kill everyone.

Female homicides typically revolve around murdering children and weaker people.

That’s why the female serial killer is typically the killer nurse. Vickie Dawn Jackson, Jane Toppan, Kristen Gilbert, Genene Jones, Amelia Dyer, it goes on. They say Aileen Wuronos was the first serial killer with 6 but some of these these nurses killed 40 - 100 people. Intentionally. And I’m sure they’re NOT integrated into the serial killer statistic.

So, in conclusion, R152, male and female killers kill children at the same rate AND men kill their physical equals at a higher rate as well. Glad you cleared that up.

1,300 women committed homicide last year. 1,300 unknown gender. 8,900 men committed homicide last year and I believe from another study, 2,000 of those homicides were women.

There is NO statistical breakdown that shows who these women murdered. Given the filicide statistic, about 25% of those murders were children.

Female violence data is barely recorded. We don’t know female-on-female violence statistics. And it’s not because it’s not there.

Oh, and men kill those that are weaker (but not children) at a higher rate too. Fascinatingly eye opening.

[quote] Do women just hate men now?

Good. Men should be fucking each other in the ass. There is no need for heterosexuality.

R149 predates?

R155 Yeah here’s some more for you to add to my point:

Of the 66,765 substantiated child sexual abuse cases, 13,492, or 20.9%, had females as the primary perpetrator.

In 19.9% of the confirmed cases, male perpetrators offended male victims, compared to 80.5% of the cases where male perpetrators offended female victims.

In 31.8% of the substantiated cases, female perpetrators offended male victims, compared to 68.2% of the cases where female perpetrators offended against female victims.

The victims of female and male perpetrators ranged in age from newborn to 18 years of age, while the female offenders were found to have a greater prevalence of victims ranging from 5 to 9 years of age.

Overall, these perpetrators of child sexual abuse were four and a half times more likely to be female if the perpetrator was the child’s biological parent and three times more likely to be female if the child was adopted.

If the child was experiencing drug-related problems, had a disability, or had prior reports of being sexually abused, the perpetrator was also more likely to be female.

I can't view anything in that link past the first two paragraphs R158

R156 Speak for yourself, I love the peen.

I'm sorry but that article is impossible to read R158. Not only does it not post any of the data (only their conclusions) but the advertisements make it impossible to click on any of the citations so we can view the data ourselves.

I would point out that a factor that could really skew such statistics is the changing definitions of what constitutes abuse. Until recent decades, for instance, a grown woman sleeping with a teenage male was not considered abuse by many people. Such incidents therefore was not reported. However, it is much more common for charges to be found now especially if the boy's mother finds out.

So I got a citation open on that article and the data was stuck behind a paywall. Sorry but that's bullshit. Also, according to the summary, men were more likely to abuse if the child had cognitive and behavioral problems ie "weaker". Funny that. In addition to being 80% of child sexual abuse perpetrators. You didn't put much thought into your point did you?

Until recently R162 a grown man sleeping with a teenage girl wasn't considered abuse either. In fact, marriage between grown men and teenaged girls was quite common and sanctioned by the government. You really need to do your research better as every argument you make is easily disputed.

R142 (and their other posts) has time traveled from 2015. Straight up red pill talking points - and there is very little that screams 'women don't want me' louder than red pill talking points.

It doesn't matter where it came from. What matters is that the actual data is stuck behind a paywall and can't be verified. And that nothing R142 has said proves his original statement, that "women kill people weaker than them". Because everything he posted actually proves that men do so at the same rates and in the case of child sexual abuse, they do so in higher rates than women.

So far in this thread the only people shaming and telling both men and women don't want them have been the ones on the side of "feminism". Which is why I gleefully tell them to go fuck themselves daily when they tell me to join their "equality" group.

Perhaps they don't know what an ignorant misogynist you are R167. "Oh you know, women couldn't legally own property but that doesn't mean they were OPPRESSED, what a silly conclusion..."

R164 it depended, upon the time and place and the girls/men involved. That is why Farmer's Daughter jokes were big, if it was no big deal to molest them the jokes wouldn't be funny.

Take for instance the story of James Henry Hammond, one time Representative, Governor and Senator from South Carolina during the antebellum period. Hammond was shut out from society and had his political downfall for a decade because he "took liberties" with his teenage nieces. His wife even left him for a period because of his repeated rapes of an enslaved girl.

Rape between a grown man and a not considered grown female, has a much, much longer history of being considered morally and legally wrong than a woman with a teen boy. As an elementary school kid in the 1990's one of my friends' mother got arrested for molesting his older brother's best friend who was like 15. I remember my mother and the other mothers being shocked and thinking the woman should go to prison. My dad and the other men were all like, "you know what we called a boy who slept with his friend's mother, back when I was in high school? LUCKY!" But, most people agree today it is wrong. I will also say, it screwed up her son that was the guy's friend.

Hammond is also of interest because it was discovered in the 20th century, that during and after he was a student at South Carolina College (now, the University of South Carolina), he had a torrid same-sex affair with fellow student Thomas Jefferson Withers. Their sexually explicit letters are some of the only documented evidence of a same-sex affair in the antebellum South, and are some of the oldest such letters to survive. His family donated his papers to the University and the letters thankfully gathered dust until published in 1981.

R167 Next time try reading in slowly and taking in the words because if you would have read my post in that fashion you would have come across me actually saying that I was not saying women weren't repressed in the past".

And next time try, just try, once at least9 to answer back with something relating to the actual argument at hand and not throwing back insults about how men or women find people who think differently as you do undesirable and shaming them about hating women. It makes you look insecure, desperate, and that you really don;t have much to fight back with.

Yes you were saying just that R170. You contradicted yourself and said you weren't denying women were oppressed in the past then went on to say the idea that men have held "us" down actively and purposedly for centuries out of...insecurities isn't an idea you believe. Basically you were trying to play devil's advocate in case someone called you out in your shit.

If you don't understand that legally barring women from financial independence for decades was actively keeping women down, then you're either ignorant, stupid, a combo of both or just a good old fashioned troll. So spare me your condescension.

First of it was married women who were not allowed to hold their own property, not all women, as shitty as that was, and second , it's not being the devils advocate, it's called having a nuanced view, but I know that with the ideology crammed so up your brain , nuanced views would be an absolutely inconceivable concept. So why even bother trying?

R172 even then there was exceptions look up female inn keepers of the colonial/antebellum period.

99% of rapists are men. This thread belongs on Reddit. You guys sound like total man-children.

R172 Denying that men actively kept down women with a set of laws preventing them from achieving financial autonomy isn't nuanced, it's inaccurate.

But you're so intent on being a cool girl that you can't admit you're wrong can you?

Did I stumble onto r/theredpill?

Just read a romance novel to get inside the head of a woman.

Lots of mixed signals.

R165 I’m gay. The whole “Incel” shit doesn’t work here.

I didn’t realize it was a paywall (worked for me by the way) but someone asked to see female on female violence so that was something I found because I was curious myself.

We’re AWARE of male violence and men on me violence.

If women can talk about men, writes books in the name of feminism, men can talk about women.

If talking about female violence and perpetrators is “sexism”, then so be it?

At this point, can we just say it's mutual?

R169 Chris Brown “lost his virginity” at 8 years old to a 15 year-old girl.

I don't hate men unless they are sexist. I just do not pay attention to them. Some guys can not handle it.

[quote]It’s startling to see so many women on social media speak about their interactions with men in trauma language.

The problem with the KiwiFarms choads trying to annex Datalounge is that they start threads like this that make absolutely no sense within the context of DL.

DL has hated women en masse for the entire time I've been here, close to 20 years. Until recently, any "why do women hate men?" posts have been met with "who the fuck cares?" or maybe some lesbian bashing and multiple "I have a woman boss and she's an evil Hitlerian psychopath so here's my plan to kill her" kinds of juvenile replies. Stupid, but expected.

These days, this crap gets posted and it's meant to be an opening for MRAs, incels and other assorted, unwanted riff-raff to post about how feminism has ruined the world, how trans are ruining the world, how one specific generation is ruining the world, how men are the real victims of every bigotry out there, how all women make up rape accusations, etc.

Worse, we get stories like "I knew this girl in college and she hooked up with a guy but then later claimed it was rape and that was like bullshit" and "I almost hooked up with this girl but she was a crazy bitch and my bros kicked her out and were like dude I've fucked her you didn't miss much."

The weird part is that almost no one else seems to have noticed.

The whole thing is really simple and boils down to "most people suck."

R177, yes esp for gen z on wattlad were they write their love on dangerous and toxic bad boys to kidnapped them and choked them.

*Wattpad

Bravo, R182. I've noticed it too, and I completely agree with your post. Kiwifarms, a website I heard about here and then checked out, makes even the meanest DL thread feel like a beloved child's birthday party in comparison. There aren't many activities that make me insta-judge someone as fucked up and self-hating, but an account on that website is one of them.

I just read a column in the Daily Mail about how picky women are being about their mates now. The comments section had been invaded by incels. Both men and women attacked each other with hatred and bitterness because of the other gender's refusal to have sex or a relationship with them. (I can see how straights might want to have sex with each other, but I can't see why they'd want to shack up together, unless they were raised with 1950s cultural standards.)

It's sad to see similar hateful comments here from gay men and lesbians. They don't want to fuck each other, so why be so bitter with each other.

Gay men and lesbians have never been in the same universe. Their issues are different. Gay men will always hate and oppress females, even lesbians. It just goes with the balls to be oppressive fucking assholes.

A lot of women these days hate men because they believe in feminist myths. Sad.

R182, why are you taking part in a site that hates women for close to 20 years? Do you also have a membership with the KKK despite being pro BLM?

I can imagine you complaining at the KKK meetings about how other members there are meaner to black people than you find acceptable.

Newsflash, Datalounge hates everyone. Every thread is people complaining about how much they hate something. Every thread is 9 out of 10 replies have no value. Btw, I come here for those 1 out of 10 replies that are gold. Much better than the majority of sites out there.

You are new here. In the past year, this site has gained tons of posters who start crying anytime anyone here says anything mean about anything and they are SHOCKED!!!!

R182 the thing that R190 wanted to tell you in his not so comprehensible way is that it is allowed to use the heaviest misogynist slurs against women on this sate, except if a woman is a certain manipulative Dutchess with some percentage of AA blood that married some Royal pussy. In that case even if you use the most moderate words to express you are less than a fan, you are considered KKK on the site.

You can insult real black women if they are from Republican party, like Condoleeza Rice freely.

If a woman is 100% white and hasn't lately discovered some black great great grandmother, go for it.

Do you feel better now, R191?

OP, not all women hate men, just the liberal kind, particularly the far-left variety (i.e., radical feminists). Conservative women still enjoy masculine men and value their own femininity.

All you have to do is interact with millennial men(boys) to see why women are rejecting them. The guys that are getting married or at least getting sex are the sames types for the past 50 years - basically normal guys. The internet has turned the rest into unsociable freaks although I guess the same can be said for many of the females.

To the poster above who mentioned KiwiFarms, thank you! Helluva site.

[quote]OP, not all women hate men, just the liberal kind, particularly the far-left variety (i.e., radical feminists). Conservative women still enjoy masculine men and value their own femininity.

So Milo DOES post on data lounge. He visits college and tries to twist the definition of "feminism" to make women stay in their place for fear of being perceived as a feminazi with unshaved legs.

R193, you are on a gay message board. Why are you trying to vilify "liberal" women? Do you think that Republican women--compared to liberal women--are more supportive of gay rights? Wow.

Don't generalize women. They aren't all the same. Except when they're on their period.

r197

R193 Are you one of these conservative bitc..., sorry women?

R199 Doesn't even matter because on both sides men are only valued if they happen to be masculine and useful to society. At least conservative women are more honest about it.

And women are only valued if they happen to be feminine and useful in the ways women are expected to be useful to society. BOTH sexes have their crosses to bear and anyone who doesn't see it is too wrapped up in their own perceived victimhood.

R201 Not true at all because women have been freed of their gender role by law. They have the right to an abortion on top of other legal ways to abandon their responsibilities of being a caregiver. So therefore a woman's freedom is imprinted into the legal system. On the other hand, men are forced to behave in accordance to their original gender role of being a provider by law. Their freedom is not valued but instead frowned upon to the point of imprisonment. So calling R193 out for her alleged traditionalism is pointless because when it comes to men's liberty most people, even "progressive" feminists, expect men to act all traditional anyway and the law proves it. See link for more information:

All women (even lesbians) love men. Men are great.

R203 ?

[quote]Not true at all because women have been freed of their gender role by law.

No they haven't. No one has been "freed" of gender roles by law. Masculine men and feminine women win the game and it was ever thus.

You're exactly the same as the feminists you so despise. "Only me and people like me have suffered! Other people who are not like me have not really suffered!" It's a low IQ tell to think like this. There are more ways to suffer than the specific ways you have suffered. Other people's suffering does not invalidate or lessen your own.

[quote]They have the right to an abortion on top of other legal ways to abandon their responsibilities of being a caregiver.

I see your tired red pill talking point. I think my favourite thing about this crowd is the whole "biology makes men [insert positive quality the rep piller believes men are born with and women aren't], suck it up buttercups, reals not feels" thing when no one and I mean NO ONE cries louder than you saddos when biology works against you.

Women have the right to an abortion because they carry fetuses in their bodies. That's biology. *Biology* (not feminism, not sociology, not politicians etc.) makes it a woman's decision whether or not to end a pregnancy, not a man's. Current law backs up that nobody has the right to interfere with the bodily autonomy of a competent adult, hence men being legally disallowed from forcing abortions on women. Given this, you would think the advice to hand out to young men would be to wrap it the fuck up every single time because if you do end up knocking someone up you won't have a say (again, because of BIOLOGY - the man will not be carrying the fetus inside his body) in whether or not the baby is born.

Or are you, in fact, advocating for men to have the right to force abortion on women?

Perhaps where you're going is towards another redpill talking point: men who knock women up but don't wish to be fathers should have the legal right to opt out, including out of child support/all financial responsibility. Which means the taxpayers will be picking up the bills in place of the biological father. Which doesn't sound very responsible or right wing to me. Why should your mistake (not using a condom) be my problem?

I mean just be honest about what you're calling for.

[quote]Do women just hate men now?

Then, now, and forever.

Gender is so last century.

It's just a social construct.

There is absolutely no difference between men and women.

A woman hating a man is basically a woman hating herself.

Sex, gender...it's all an illusion.

Not hate, but really really really sick of their shit.

R147 then I guess I’m an anomaly, cause I’d back, defend, and sacrifice for my little sister. She’s my best friend, and the best thing I’ve helped to bring into this mad sad world. Even if I were hypothetically crazy in love with the same man she was (wouldn’t happen, as I prefer women, and the few men I like would not be her type at all), then I’d stand back and let her take him, even insist on it, because her happiness and wellbeing means that much to me.

Sisterhood may be rare these days, but where it can be found it is profound and precious as any brotherhood.

It's all just penis envy.

The "women have a right to abortions men don't" argument is dumb because they are obviously not under the same circumstances. That being said so is feminists using abortion rights or lack thereoff as a equality issue. Men are not meant to have the same rights as women when it comes to reproductive rights, so why would it be?

Also there might be a case to be made for "financial" abortions, that is letting a man not be financially responsible for a child until they are 18, as is currently the case. It's good that women have a choice of what to do if they get pregnant but why do men have NO say about what their lives will be if they do?

No matter how you want to shake it, the idea that men should be held more responsible than women when it comes to sex and babies seems to be an idea that feminists are not as willing to tackle as , say, women in STEM or some other bullshit. Neither does the government, which makes sense since they don't want to be responsible for maintaining rugrats until they're 18 either. So men get royally screwed in that sense.

R206..so telling a woman "Should have kept your legs together" would be sexist but telling men the equivalent is a ok? Guess only men have to be made responsible for their choices?

If abortion is legal then so should financial abortion. Not that a man should decide after the kid is living that he doesn't want to be a father. But if he's dead set against it from the beginning then yes. Why would a woman want to bring a baby into this world that the father wants no part of? If a woman can't afford a child on her own then she should have an abortion.

However, if abortion continues to be illegal then let the father and mother financially take care of it. Why the hell should I be financially responsible for their orgasm?

I'm so glad I'm gay and don't have to deal with them.

[quote]Why would a woman want to bring a baby into this world that the father wants no part of?

Why would a man want to make a baby that he wants no part of?

[quote]so telling a woman "Should have kept your legs together" would be sexist but telling men the equivalent is a ok?

This isn't about "ok" - it's about "true" - and it as true for women as it is for men that if you have unprotected sex (or even protected sex sometimes), there is the chance you will create a baby.

Don't want to pay for a kid you didn't want? Don't have unprotected sex. The fact that this gets so much pushback from straight men, who have some sort of rage response to any suggestion their dick might not be everyone's number 1 priority, is wildly telling.

"Don't want to pay for a kid you didn't want? Don't have unprotected sex." Why does that apply to the man only though? Why can't the goverment say the same to a woman?

[quote]Why can't the goverment say the same to a woman?

It applies to men and women. Sex (i.e. whether a mother or father is raising a child) has nothing to do with child benefits and single fathers are equally entitled to whatever the various forms of parenthood-related social support there is.

Also, and again: BIOLOGY. Women carry fetuses in their bodies. That is a biological, not a political, fact. Until we legalize forced abortion, expect fathers, even reluctant ones, to continue to be hit up for child support.

You keep wanting to see this as some kind of anti-man thing but it isn't. It's naked pragmatism from governments.

Don't want kids? Don't ejaculate inside any vaginas. It's that simple. It will always be that simple. This should be a non-problem to any straight man who knows how babies are made.

R218 I am absolutely pointing out it is naked pragmatism by the government. Nothing more than that. But it absolutely screws men over, as unintentional as it may be. But I will continue to seethe when I hear feminists use the "If you did not want a baby then you shouldn't have sex" against men when they suffer absolute no consequences for doing the same thing. It's absolutely hypocritical and malicious. And if the government where to one day say the same thing to women when they beg for financial assistance, they would cry an ocean worth's of tears and play victims once again.

You would think if feminism truly wanted equality they would fight to free both men AND women from the consequences of sex....they never do, they never will.

Women can take birth control pills.

But it messes up their hormones and makes them even wackier.

R220 I just came in to make this point.

Interesting that no man ever champions or even mentions the idea of male birth control methods. The onus for prevention is almost entirely on a woman; to take dangerous medication long term, or get implants that mess with her body, or have damaging surgery. No man ever volunteers to control their sperm with anything more than a rubber, because ultimately on some primal selfish men want to spread their seed without caring about or dealing with ramifications. That is what woman rightfully object to.

R221 I do not see that anywhere in this thread, IN FACT I see the opposite right here in this thread.

Women are baby makers.

Men are empire builders.

R222 and you see no problem with getting all of your information and discourse here....:/

R221 No woman is forced to take the birth control pill. Often they don't like the feeling of a condom either so don't try to fool me into believing that plenty of women aren't happy that they have the option of taking the pill instead of having to rely on condoms just like men. Your argument is an actual argument based on victimhood because just like you portray women as victims for having plenty of birth control options you would portray them as victims too if they wouldn't have any at all.

The trial for the male birth control pill was stopped because one man went infertile, two have permanent lower sperm count and one committed suicide. Most men wanted to continue with the study but it was halted against their wishes. The female birth control pill has horrible side effects too, however it was released during a time when regulations on such things weren't as strict as today.

By the way, I find it funny when people call me a conservative for saying that men should have the right to a "financial abortion" but then respond to me with that "men should have kept it in their pants". ...Which actually sounds more conservative here?

Another argument that has been made in the last few replies is that only women have the right to an abortion due to their biology but I have never disagreed with that because I am pro-choice. When I wrote the reply at R202 I just mentioned that women have other legal options to abandon their role as a mother on top of abortion. They can legally put up their unwanted child for adoption without notifying the biological (unmarried) father. There are also designated safe haven spots like hospitals or fire stations where women can legally abandon their children to the state (In some states even months after birth). These two things have nothing to do with a woman's biology and when a woman can refuse to financially support her child when she doesn't feel ready for it, a man should be able to do that too.

The sentence "don't ejaculate into vaginas" is just as sexist as "keep your legs closed" because 1. women have the rights to abandon their parental responsibilities regardless of how much sex they have or whether they have used any kind of birth control at all and 2. there are documented cases of men actually using a condom but then it was retrieved from the trash can. There are plenty of other ways women have acquired sperm which I will not discuss because it is legal for them to do so.

Child support is not for the child anyway. There are plenty of reasons but my reply is already way too long so I will list only two. Nowhere does it state that the money is supposed to go to the child, it is legal for women to brag online that they have used it for buying themselves shoes etc. and when you see how rich/famous men have to pay thousands in child support you could argue that it seems more like punishing/slut shaming the man instead of actually caring for the child's well-being because being born just because your mother is a gold digger doesn't really sound like loving parenting to me. My father left me too at an early age and I have never received any kind of money, so the "think of the children" argument will not work on me anyway because I know you can be successful regardless of that. Overall, I think men who actually agreed to the child should pay support after a divorce/break up but not these huge sums. But just like women, men who don't want to take care of their child after it has been born should not be forced to be financially responsible for it nor should they fear imprisonment.

I am not surprised when people respond kinda old fashioned towards my arguments because as I said, most of society still expects men to remain traditional and some of the replies to my comment prove my point about that. So many people really think they are progressives while they actually aren't.

I never said i was progressive and agreed with the basic point that women as well as men should avoid unprotected sex if they don't want a baby. But I had these arguments with Men's Rights types back in 2015 and none of it ever shook what is actually *their*/your victim complex. When men have custody (as women who give up their child to the state do), they also have the option of giving their children up.

For all the laughable 'empire builders!' posts (is that what you're doing here, with your 5+year old talking points? building empires? fucking lol), you really don't have anything but your sense of grievance. Sorry, I'm out. There is a very, very simple solution to the problem of men being held financially responsible for babies they create, one that has been mentioned multiple times now, and that is not creating those babies in the first place. You have 100% control over whether or not that happens.

R226 You sound like a pro-lifer

Write a book why don't ya?

R225 men can give up their children too, you need to stop acting like men have no choices. It just so happens that men rarely want custody of a child as a solo parent

I can't stand women of my age (34), as they have no idea what to do with themselves, and they seem to be under an insane amount of self-imposed pressure mixed with an undeserved sense of entitlement. Vicious, aggressive, greedy. No fun to be around.

I do like older women (50+) and I am lucky to be friends with some of these "autumn ladies".

They've seen it all before, their biological clock isn't harassing them — there's warmth, honesty and really good friendship to be found in women from a certain age. And I dearly love them.

[quote] The female birth control pill has horrible side effects too, however it was released during a time when regulations on such things weren't as strict as today.

So we should just leave it at that, then, yeah? No more research or development into less destructive and inhuman methods. These women are ultimately just baby incubators, at the end of the day, right? Who actually gives a fuck about the quality of life of females, in a patriarchal society....

Cf. also, the 45+hour work week while having to do everything men won’t or don’t do I.e. run a household/childrear/care for elders/manage manchildren for husbands, or working every week of the month with no allowed breaks or time away for cropping menstrual pain/issues, or the expectation of staying feminine-sexy and conventionally agreeable/reasonable and ‘nice’ and maternal while at the same time being ‘fierce’ and ‘bossing it’ and ‘Alpha’ just so you can keep up with the males of the workforce and get your dues....

I knew a guy who had a vasectomy in his mid 20s after a pregnancy scare with a one night stand. He decided right then and there he never wanted kids. Fast forward decades and he was dating a psycho bitch and when he dumped her she swore up the hill and down the dale she was pregnant by him. Now mind you she knew he was clipped but swore it must have come undone. Long story short,even though he had made sure via his doctor the vasectomy was still good,he had to take a dna test because the psycho swore he was the father. He had to go thru all the court bullshit and spend money on lawyers etc all on psycho bitches word. Women are fucking nuts now,and they wonder why guys end up hating them.

Guys who hate women now have always hated women, it's not a modern invention. It all comes down to the fact that men want sex and hate that they have to go through women to get it. Even gay men have to compete against women for sex with some men.

It's about feeling powerless, nothing more nothing less.

"Do women just hate men now?"

What took you so long to catch on?

Another thing is, most straight women have no sense of loyalty. They're always looking for something better. I'm gay but not out of work in a corporate job. I can't tell you how many of my female co-workers, some married, have either aggressively hit on me or made it clear that they would be available if I was interested. And it's not just acquaintances or work colleagues. I'm sure many gay men can relate: you could be at a public place, a restaurant, the park or last week for me at the airport, this couple were long-hugging goodbye the man seemed to be going away on business or something. But the girl was staring directly at me all the time over her man's shoulder. And she didn't have the shame to blink or look away when I stared back. I felt sorry for that man.

It’s evident from this thread that women are an alien species to many of our posters. So many getting suprise-pikachu’d when it turns out that most normal real-life women are not the ideal model in the gay mind—ever-gentle, ever-glamorous, ever-gracious Golden Age beings ready to cede to a man’s every whim.

Actual women have had to fight in the real world to hang on to basic autonomy, and in order to do so must often relinquish their soft edges and genteel aspects. Sad but true.

For obvious reasons, female birth control makes more sense than male birth control. If I was the person who gets pregnant, I wouldn't trust the person who doesn't, with my reproductive future anyway. Men lie.

R235 are you out of your mind? No really. On what planet, nay, in what universe, would you think that men are in any way more loyal and less likely to cruise other people while they are attached. GTFO of here with that nonsense.

Women are emotional.

Men have no emotions.

Oh, nonsense, men certainly do have emotions. Stunted, twisted, egocentric ones, mind you. But emotions nonetheless.

Men have mastered their emotions.

Women still struggle.

The amount of violence men inflict on the world proves men haven't.

^^they have mastered anger and rage quite well, I will say

r242 I love men but if there is anything they have NOT managed to do is master their emotions/.

Hate is a strong and emotion-filled word.

Can we rephrase all this?

No, that's over on iVilllage, r246.

Unfortunately, the Datalounge has been infested by a bunch of men-hating, ancient, 3rd wave feminists and their noxious braying can be heard at all hours.

I'm waiting for Muriel to finally get fed up with them.

iVillage has been shut down for almost a decade eldergay at R247. So clearly they aren't the only ancient people posting.

Here's an idea. If gay men on DL don't want to hear women's thoughts then they should stop talking and thinking about them. Month after month, week after week, day after day. If you go on any random women's forums gay men hardly get brought up, yet a group of men who supposedly want nothing to do with women insist on speaking about them all the damn time. Stop making posts about them and your dreams will come true.

Wow. A thread titled "Do women use hate men now?" is filled with misogynistic and sometimes hateful comments about women. Ironic.

Some men are assholes. But not most. Some women are assholes. But not most. If you have encountered a disproportionately high number of assholes (of either gender), then try to mix with different people.

It's a Gay Men's site. We'll talk about women whenever and however we like. This space is supposed to be OURS, for us to discuss whatever we want. You know how those anti-trans obsessives are always going on about "women's spaces" and how that's a big deal? Apparently that's only for people with vaginas. Men aren't allowed websites of their own where women aren't attacking them.

Sometimes it's family members or cube-fraus or shop bottoms or whatever who happen to be women. We're gay so we shouldn't ever mention half the population just because we don't want to fuck them? Women have no power with us.

Who the fuck do you think you are, R248, telling us what we can and cannot talk about on our our own goddamn website?

Shut your cunt mouth.

You don't own this website cunt R250. It's free for anyone to read and use. Simple solution, if you don't want women attacking you then stop attacking women. Fill your gaping hole with love and cum, not hate. Fucking cuntbag.

R250 doesn't get the irony of going on about a gay men's spaces while defending the trans. The trans want to erase gay men as well as lesbians and take over all gay spaces.

We don't have 50,000 obsessive threads every month about Trans on this site. Never. Stupid women brought that shit here and they've infested the site.

Are you trying to destroy the Datalounge because we don't give a fuck about women? We don't give a fuck about women, so what? What's it to you?

It's a Gay Men's website. This is men's space. It's not your place to set parameters for us nor is it your place to bring your women's agenda here. Inappropriate, unwelcome, invasive and dumb.

This is why you're always being told to shut your cunt mouth and get the fuck off of our site.

Is it "hate" hate or "HATE" hate?

"This is why you're always being told to shut your cunt mouth and get the fuck off of our site." - No one says this to women on DL except you r253, and all the other gay men think you're a moron.

Weird how a few gay men (not all) on this board want to vilify straight and gay women. It's not straight and gay women who want to take away your equal rights. It's straight men. The straight men who wanted to exile gay men to islands in the 80s and who still don't think gay men should have equal marriage rights are the same men who want to keep women dependent on men in the home and in the workforce. So even though the few misogynistic gay men here share the same oppressor as these women, they'd still rather fight with women. And as for the real oppressor, the straight white males? You worship them.

Keep beating your chest R253, it won't get you anywhere. When the posts deriding and attacking women stop, the posts deriding and attacking men will stop. Oh wait, you want to be a big baby and not get called out for it? Too bad, cuntbag.

being a non-radfem lesbian reading this thread is so popcorn.gif

y’all just keep carrying on i can’t wait to see who wins the dl hunger games

The posts deriding and insulting women will never stop. We've had them for 25 years and we'll continue to have them. This is MEN'S space, this is not YOUR space.

Your man-hating threads will stop when Muriel gets rid of you. And she will, it may take years I've seen it around here before, but she'll get rid of you. This is a Gay Men's website, we don't have your boundaries about what is acceptable and what is not. You don't dictate and threaten us. It's just more of women's constant bitching and yammering, unable to keep your cunt mouths shut.

But now it's 4:15 on Saturday. Unlike you fat, ugly old hags, I have things to do. Buh-bye, cunt mouth.

[quote] It's not straight and gay women who want to take away your equal rights. It's straight men.

The only people who seem to want to take away other people's equal rights, who have any real political support, seem to be Trans, transwomen especially.

This is a site for gay cis-men.

Everyone else is a guest.

Guest privileges can be revoked.

It'll be the last of you I swear, if I have to crawl through broken glass to do it, I'll get rid of you!

[quote] This is MEN'S space, this is not YOUR space.

Well, technically this a GAY space. Gay men and gay women can post here. Yes, gay *women*. F4F. Sapphics. Lesbians. Dykes. Whatever you wanna call it. If we’re female and we munch rather than suck, then we pass the requirement to ride this insane teacup spinner that is DL, and we can be here just as often and as vocally as we want.

The people truly causing division, spite, bitterness and sundering here are the straights (with help from the nutbag T/Enbys)—both straight men and women. They are the ones who need to leave and never return. Even if you think you want them here (the straight men), it’s bad for us all. They don’t really care about us and they don’t understand us, never will. It’s their entitled wrongheaded perspective that is thwarting everything good about GAY (and by that I mean, Gee and Ell) spaces.

I have been accused of being a tad misogynistic even though I'm a gay male. If one more female lyft driver cannot follow simple instructions I'm going to lose my mind. Same goes for Instacart - though on that one the best one goes to a male driver.

My favorite is the clueless ones. It makes me sad for the future.

[quote]The posts deriding and insulting women will never stop. We've had them for 25 years and we'll continue to have them. This is MEN'S space, this is not YOUR space.

That's just "locker room talk"!

R256 Oh shut the fuck up, you're complaining about women hate but have no problem in shitting on men...do you honestly think every space on the internet is a misandric shit hole like Jezebel ?

This is why you crazy radical feminists are never taken seriously.

Fuck you.

R262 I hate the crazy transactivists but these crazy rad fems seem obsessed in finding a way to even blame THAT shit on men. Of course, straight men, because if they were to say all men that would piss of the gays. Though in their little circles...trust me, they mean ALL men./

What?? R267 No, feminists don't blame modern trans activism on gay men, they place the blame squarely (and rightfully) on straight men's shoulders as they are the ones who are trying to get into bathrooms and the like for perverted reasons. You make no sense.

R268 I think you missed the point of my post. I was calling you out on that misandric bullshit that makes you blame men even for trans people, then clarified that of COURSE, you would say it would only be straight men, because you have to protect your ass and not piss of the gays. But in your own circles, you know damn well you hate anything with a penis, gay or straight.

R269 oh dear you're confused. I'm not the one who brought up trans, that was another poster. And you don't understand the motives of the targets of your bigotry, gay men are just as opposed to trans as feminists, feminists are certainly not blaming gay men for it.

Now go on, keep licking all all those wonderful men's assholes cool girl!

R270 You seem to have a reading problem. My point for the last 2 posts is that radical feminists hate anyone with a peen, but they find gays usefull. I dare you to visit an actual radical feminist forum or website to see what they really think of men, and I mean ALL men.

[quote]It's not straight and gay women who want to take away your equal rights. It's straight men.

[quote]So even though the few misogynistic gay men here share the same oppressor as these women, they'd still rather fight with women.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, you don't, r256. Straight white women have never been on our side and are our oppressors too. They've shown their hand on several occasions when it mattered. And I include all self-identified "liberal" white women who end up dating and marrying conservative men. These are the same ones who raised alt-right sons. Never trust them unless you like the feel of a knife in your back.

No R271 I don't think you understand something. You referenced my post and started talking about trans. I never mentioned trans, not even once. Getting a little tipsy on Saturday night are you? You shouldn't even be here, you should be sucking all that cock you love! Just make sure to wax that hairy vagina of yours. Oh that's right, you're such a cool girl you can entice them with your charisma and aura LMAO

Straight white women showing their hand.

Straight white women showing their hand again in 2020.

"Men have mastered their emotions.

Women still struggle."

Hilarious! Are you living in opposite world?

The incel has gone off his meds again. Feminists don't hate ALL men. That's a lie that Republicans use to convince women to stay in their place. Why are you doing the Republicans' work for them? Do you know what Republicans would do to gay men if they could get away with it?

There is absolutely no way to tell which of the two genders are posting on DL. Never have. never will. I am willing to bet all the ones claiming to be female are men. Females are not generally psychotically angry and aggressive the way mentally ill angry bottoms are on here. Most of the psychotic and sock puppet accounts are owned by angry bottoms who are men and usually mentally ill.

I don't care.

I'm supposed to care about the people who hate me for no real reason, and I've given a few good reasons over the years, but this... The past few has been something else.

I don't care how much you hate me. I am used to it to a certain degree. Getting used to it.

If I were the King of the World.

GURL

R229 They can only give it up with the consent of the mother. Apart from that even male rape victims have to pay child support.

R231 But we never left it at that. There are already plenty of other birth control options women can use. There is no law that says women are forced to take the pill. They can rely solely on condoms, just like men.

Y many here transphobes? It all natural honeyz. Theze menz hate bein a man too though.

[quote] They can rely solely on condoms, just like men.

r284 It's not 100% guaranteed. Most of the time condoms work, until they don't. The burden and direct damage to the body from the unexpected, unwanted pregnancy all fall on to women.

R286 and this is why women have plenty of other birth control options which can be used simultaneously. But then I will get another reply of how harmful the pill is. It is a constant back and forth. No idea who is responding to me but have you even bothered to follow the whole conversation? I don't really get your point because nowhere did I say that I oppose the birth control pill nor abortion.

R287 and we have to keep on reiterating this point, because (mostly male) pharma CEOs, gynos and scientists won’t listen and don’t care to invest in creating safer alternatives. The new shiny implants that have come out in recent years are just as bad or worse for long-term female general health (and not just reproductive). But hey it’s effective as a BC method! And convenient! (for whom...?)

The point isn’t “do you support BC? why/not? Arrrgg misogynist!”. The point is, why do women have to keep suffering medical poisoning for the sake of making life easier for men?

R288 You still talk as if women do not enjoy sex. As if having various birth control methods available were an inconvenience, ...really? As I have said before, women are not forced to take the pill or any other kind of birth control. If they feel they are suffering when taking it, they can stop right away.

What R289? If they stop taking them they can get pregnant. So the choice is between pregnancy or harmful birth control. Not much of a "choice" and hence why sex comes with such hangups for women. If men want those same choices they should demand that their bodies be donated to science.

R287 you'll get the same response about birth control because you're too stupid to understand that it is HARMFUL to women's bodies. Do you get it now? It's not much of a choice when it harms you. Literally the only birth control that doesn't harm in any way whatsoever is the condom.

Ladies, calm down and start a book club.