Why is "gay voice" so prevalent and yet "lesbian voice" is more or less nonexistent?

Some say that Lesbians with DEEP voices are the equivalent of Gay men with high and effeminate voices.

Right R1, but not that many lesbians have deep voices

Certainly not in comparison to the number of gay men with gay voice

I would say Jane Fonda is an example of lesbian voice. Very earthy.

R2- That's true.

I can be attracted to a gay male who's mildly effeminate but my more ideal type is a guy who looks and sounds straight but NOT Macho or dripping with masculinity but just a slim, slightly rumpled , good looking guy.

Interesting, OP. You are right, there is no lesbian equivalent to gay voice. Maybe it's just more subtle, like a butch lesbian might be more taciturn the way a man might be.

I don't agree with OP. There are many times when I think, "She sounds like a lesbian."

You would be in the distinct minority then, R7

Or more finely attuned to it.

Even clueless straight people pick up on gay voice.

Given that gay voice is supposed to be men imitating adults in their lives they look up to (women) why wouldn't lesbians do the same with men?

Or is gay voice a learned behavior for many gay men?

We've all known guys who did not sound like that, but once they came out, so did the gay voice. Were they suppressing it before or adopting it to sound like their new peers?

it's genetic

male voices are more dynamic on the spectrum, I suppose.

I think "lesbian voice" in females would be that of an assertive woman. She's seemingly confident, capable of speaking with the same vocabulary and vocal inflections that assertive men use. Women are actually encouraged to do this -- to speak more loudly, directly, and to refrain from using "womanly" language.

We've become so accustomed to such women that we would never think of them as sounding lesbian. We view it as a positive characteristic, unlike gay voice in a man.

Jodie Foster?

Perhaps R11, but

ª lots of straight woman speak in that assertive manner. Very few straight men have "gay voice"

• similarly, the percentage of lesbians who speak like that is far smaller than the percentage of gay men with gay voice

[quote] We've all known guys who did not sound like that, but once they came out, so did the gay voice. Were they suppressing it before or adopting it to sound like their new peers?

I was at the movies one night in San Francisco and it sounded like all the gay men in the audience went to the same goddamned finishing school.

What a bunch of stereotypes! Does that kind of behavior make them feel that they "belong"? Pathetic.

[quote] lots of straight woman speak in that assertive manner.

And we usually call them cunts.

Paula Poundstone has what I consider the stereotypical lesbian voice. Or any female gym teacher.

I think there's lesbian voice. Kate Moennig, Suzanne Westenhoefer, LP. I don't know. I think it's mostly a less affected female voice. Lesbians don't usually do the uptick on the end of their sentences like straight women do.

Maybe R17, but most straight women don't have uptick when they speak.

That's pretty much limited to a percentage of women under 30

I tend to think of lesbian voice as like a deep, husky tone with vocal fry.

Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs had lesbian voice. Sounds like too many teeth.

gay voice is kinda cute on a young twink, not so much on a middle aged man

I know plenty of straight men married to women that have gay voice to rival any of you queens.

Gay men don't have high voices imo. There is a distinct pronunciation but I never believed the theory that gay men were emulating women when they speak or it would be more of a falsetto.

There is a documentary about "gay voice."

[quote][bold]About the film:[/bold] Is there such a thing as a "gay voice"? Why do some people "sound gay" but not others? Why is the "gay voice" a trigger for bullying, even violence? DO I SOUND GAY? explores these questions and more and includes revealing interviews with Margaret Cho, Tim Gunn, Don Lemon, Dan Savage, David Sedaris and George Takei

Because, back in "the day" lesbians could project their gayness with clothes, haircut, and general physical presentation.

Gay men couldn't do that without coming off "flamboyant" to general society so they projected their gayness with voice and body movement - whether consciencely or subconsciencely

While things are changing, it's still pretty much that way now, too - but that's how it got started.... That's my hypothesis anyway.

Lesbians often speak veRy cleaRly with veRy Rhotic Rs.

Same reason Rosie could pass as straight. No one cares about butch women.

Society is like a heat-seeking missile for effeminacy in men.

Butchness in women is allowed and encouraged.

[quote]Why is "gay voice" so prevalent

The "harsh" (for some people) truth:

You learn gay voice.

[quote] and yet "lesbian voice" is more or less nonexistent?

There is lesbian voice.

That is also learned but for some reason some people can't pick up on it. It's there.

I didn’t learn gay voice. I had it at five and spent my life trying to get rid of it.

[Quote] yet "lesbian voice" is more or less nonexistent?

Disagree.

I knew this person was a lesbian before she said so.

c. 35:30

when I was younger I was often complimented on my soft spoken, calming voice. Without trying to ditch that, I apparently evolved into sounding like an intelligent redneck, according to a lot of people. It is fine with me, but some things just evolve and/or just happen. The whole lesbian voice thing, that I really have no idea about.

R29, Lots of kids sound like that at 5 but there's more to it. You picked up on something that you felt attuned to and you stuck with it. You combine that with mannerisms that are subconscious and that creates a discomfort around it. It's hard to get rid of for some people.

For other men, straight ones usually, at some point (when they go through puberty and their vocal range changes) they learn there's a negative connotation to it and they get rid of it.

There are also plenty of gay men who can "switch" back and forth.

It's really like R14 said:

[quote]I was at the movies one night in San Francisco and it sounded like all the gay men in the audience went to the same goddamned finishing school.

There's just something we pick up on that sort of "draws" us into a way of speaking that is identifiable.

I spend a lot of time trying to teach women not to talk with baby voice. "I always talk like that!" No, ma'am. You didn't. You picked that up somewhere too.

Gays don't learn gayvoice, they just have it. It is just a thing that exists.

R33, That's why it's a "harsh" truth. It's within the realm of my job to deal with these things and I have dealt with plenty of people over the past few decades. Believe whatever you want.

Is there any lesbian equivalent to the Diana Scream?

Go to Mississippi or some parts of Louisiana and you'll hear LOTS of straight men with gay voice.

Thank you for your permission to "believe whatever I want", r34. I shall cherish it always.

R37, Glad to be of service, deary.

I had it when I was younger but don’t have it now

It just kind of went away

I ran into a guy I knew when I was a teenager and he said I acted completely different now and that people thought I was gay because of my voice as a teen, he couldn’t believe how deep my voice got now and then he said “No one would even think you’re gay now”

Selma Bouvier

Beatrice Arthur

Ruth Gordon

Did Theranos grifter Elizabeth Holmes have lesbian voice?

No, she sounded like what she was: a straight women putting on a deep voice to seem more intelligent and reliable.

Eric Lindros, former Philadelphia Flyer, has a real bad case of gayvoice

He’s straight too

There are (ostensibly) straight men with gay voice.

Peter Sarsgaard is a good example. That’s what I sound like.

Few things serve you less well in the gay world than gay voice.

Instant turnoff to a lot of men. Makes no sense that anyone would aspire to it.

How odd that someone would aspire to a speaking voice. It's how you speak. Accept it.

R46 you can change it, it’s hard but can be done

Who has done it?

R48 purposely talk deeper and more monotone and don’t draw out words

Add to the stew that a lot of Americans tend to hear a posh clipped British accent as gay.

Eric Lindros, my hockey crush , gay voice is insane and the constant blinking too when he talks

He sounds like a Queen in West Hollywood, Google his interviews

And he’s married to a woman with 3 kids

[Quote] purposely talk deeper and more monotone and don’t draw out words

The serial killer in the Silence of the Lambs doesn't speak in a high voice. Nor does he draw out his words.

R52 but does he have “gay voice”, I haven’t seen the movie in years but it seemed he had a regular male voice

I think he pings. Hard.

R54 the guy from SITL?

THats actually the actors real voice, he didn’t do a fake voice for the movie and he’s straight in real life…

I mean, "scratch an actor..."

[quote]Eric Lindros, my hockey crush , gay voice is insane and the constant blinking too when he talks

You never played "Gay?" or "Canadian?" A lot of Canadians have "gay voice."

[quote]The serial killer in the Silence of the Lambs doesn't speak in a high voice. Nor does he draw out his words.

Something associated with "gay voice" is "vocal fry." I think people usually understand that term when they hear it.

Buffalo Bill has "vocal fry." He's also doing it intentionally to sound like a "gay" man, he's also using feminine mannerisms.

The actor, Ted Levine, doesn't really sound like that.

[quote]purposely talk deeper and more monotone and don’t draw out words

Try thinking of gay voice as an accent. There are rules to it, even if they're not immediately apparent. Don't go "up" on the ends of sentences. Don't drop your trap vowels. Be careful of where you place your tongue in your mouth and avoid nasal voice.

[quote]THats actually the actors real voice, he didn’t do a fake voice for the movie and he’s straight in real life…

He talks in this clip. He has a bit of a midwestern twang. If you look at his other roles, he changes his voice all the time but he says here he was researching transgender people for the role.

R57 but a lot of straight men have nasal voice especially from NYC or Philly

[quote] I was at the movies one night in San Francisco and it sounded like all the gay men in the audience went to the same goddamned finishing school.

Sounds like hell

R58, They do. It's the combination of a lot of things that make what someone would call "gay voice."

It's like, if you're an actor and you try to learn an accent with a voice coach they won't simply let you "listen" to someone say sentences and have you repeat them back. They force you to learn all of the rules of the accent so that way you can say anything you want with it. The way you say vowels, break down compound words, where you place the emphasis on things. Gay accents have long fricatives. Every accent is a combination of a lot of rules which applies here too.

It's just that generally with an accent you present a subconscious understanding of all of those rules and once you know them and know the rules of other accents, you can break them.

I talk in a slow monotone as deep as I can go (not very) and still sound gay.

R61 record your voice , play it back , and try to improve it

Also our voice on recordings tends to be higher than in real life, some guys I work with if they leave a message on my phone, it’s so high compared to their deeper in person voice

You’re right about Peter Sarsgard

Jeez…

I only realized what my voice sounded like last year when I started using zoom.

All those years prior I thought I sounded relatively passable.

Nope! I sound gayer Liberace in turban.

I used to have gay voice as a teen/20 something, now people tell me that my voice is too deep and too hard to understand, I also have had people tell me I sound like Joey from Friends

Overtime and working with primarily straight broish guys and my buddies at the gym too , it just naturally changed

I can’t explain it, I’m glad it did, but I think a lot of younger gay men subconsciously have it from being around women all the time

I had gay voice long before I knew I was gay and I grew up around no gay people.

For some gay voice is a learned affectation, like Jack on Will and Grace.

R65 many gay boys subconsciously mimic abs pick up female voices

Like I said I had it when I was younger and now I don’t at all, although apparently I sound like a NYC Italian street thug now

This thread is useless without voicenotes.

Nero had a super flamboyant effeminate gay voice . Even Bouddica said he should just go be a tranny.

Don’t change your voice. There’s no shame in being gay.

R3 Apparently not, since she's not a lesbian.

Women are usually naturally more secure in their womanhood than men are in their manhood. We know who we are.

That's why you listen to your mothers.

Exactly. There aren't straight people fretting about sounding straight.

Working class women, at least in my mother's generation, had Rosie's voice and affect.

Lots of overlap between lesbian and working class women stereotypes.

I don’t think Rosie has lesbian voice. She just sounds like a working class Irish American woman from Long Island on her generation.

Lesbian voice is real though.

lesbians don't have the gay voice but so many have the dykey hair cut.

I swear to god, I can be in my car and spot a lesbian a mile a way with that hair. It's almost rare that lesbians have long hair. Hair to them is almost like an after thought. And when they do get it cut, looks like they walked out of a barber shop. "I will have the boy's cut, while you are at it, can you buzz the sides?"

R76 Yep just listen to Peppermint Patty. You can spot a baby dyke from her voice, just like a gayling.

.....

[quote] Overtime and working with primarily straight broish guys and my buddies at the gym too , it just naturally changedI can’t explain it,

Yep, same here. The industry I work in is about 9 to 1 men. You just naturally pick up the way other people are speaking over time. It's stuck and now sometimes I catch myself saying things like "dude" even when I am typing shit out on boards like this.

Holly Hunter

R77 "It's almost rare that lesbians have long hair." Yeah, except that this isn't true. Huge majority of both femme and tomboy lesbians have long hair. Just because you assume that every woman with long hair you seeia straight, doesn't mean she is.

R81 Is straight.

You can be straight and have gay or lesbian voice.

We also mentioned Peter Sarsgaard upthread as an example of that.

'Cause you tell a woman she has lez voice and she'll beat the shit out of youse

Butches are always clearing their throats and scratching their noses before they speak.

Very affected.

R85 They also scratch their crotch like they have balls.

Mary Carillo would disagree.

Sissy talk sissy talk.

It's a wonder you can walk.

Bump

Gay voice as a child is because so many gayling boys identify with the women around them - so they subconsciously mimic them and that becomes "normal" traits for them.

The women can be fictional, too, like just about any Disney Princess swooning over some guy. The gaylings identify with the Princess because they too, subconsciously, are swooning over the guy. So they imprint on the hyper feminine Princess.

I think we're going to find, in the future, many of these types of boys are actually trans and more ID as female.

Great R91

Now something like 80% of the posters on DL are going to have castration nightmares

Because lesbians are not the mirror image of gay men?

I've heard many lesbians with a distinct pronunciation of the letter S. Hard to describe, but Jodie Foster does it, as do many others in the public eye, and those that I know. It's not all lesbians obviously, but when I hear that "S" I haven't been wrong yet.

I can't shake my gay voice; it's noticeable even on childhood family videos. It's worse than most because it's gay voice combined with a posh accent. That's literally the worst combination.

Off the top of my head I can't identify the elements of lesbian voice, but I'm pretty sure the more discerning and attuned among us have mentioned "canevoice" here before. Jodie Foster is said to have lesbian voice.

Rachel Maddow sounds like the biggest lesbian on the planet.

[Quote]I can't shake my gay voice; it's noticeable even on childhood family videos.

R95 as a child.

I love that R97 called out Rachel Maddow using a textual version of gay voice.

R97 Because she is?

[quote] It's worse than most because it's gay voice combined with a posh accent. That's literally the worst combination.

Or the best.

There may not be "lesbian voice" but there is lesbian walk. At least in more butch women.

[quote]Off the top of my head I can't identify the elements of lesbian voice, but I'm pretty sure the more discerning and attuned among us have mentioned "canevoice" here before. Jodie Foster is said to have lesbian voice.

I just discovered there's an paragraph that breaks it down on wikipedia but it also notes that there haven't been as many studies about "lesbian" voice as there have been about gay voice.

To summarize:

- lower pitch and more direct communication styles

- [italic]more backed variants of back vowels[/italic]

- [italic]lower median pitch, wider pitch range, lower second formant, and more use of creaky voice. [/italic]

- Linguist Robin Queen argues that analyses have been too simplistic and that a uniquely lesbian language is constructed through the combination of sometimes-conflicting stylistic tropes: stereotypical women's language (e.g. hypercorrect grammar), stereotypical nonstandard forms associated with the (male) working class (e.g. contractions), stereotypical gay male lexical items, and stereotypical lesbian language (e.g. flat intonation, cursing).

- Sometimes lesbians deliberately avoid stereotypical female speech, according to Queen, in order to distance themselves from "normative" heterosexual female speech patterns

- Lesbians may have more slang than gay males, with one article listing nearly eighty common lesbian slang words for sexual acts and organs.

[quote] one article listing nearly eighty common lesbian slang words for sexual acts and organs.

Sort of like how Native Alaskans have 16 words for snow?

I'm not going to stereotype and argue it is the only "accent" or tell, but several athletic lesbians I know well share an overall monotone style of expression devoid of much strong emotion either way, that is the polar opposite of Rachel Maddow's very expressive voice. Rachel can sometimes barely subdue her glee at time, which I find particularly charming.

These three friends also are not particularly verbal, though they are all smart professionals, sans working class flavour. They tend to be on the quiet side, until they have anything meaningful to say. Very little smalltalk.

When I coached young womens' Rugby, there were many who sounded exactly like these three, though they were not all uniformly butch as some may be inclined to imagine.. Several wore their hair long, liked cosmetics, heels... etc. One interesting predilection however feminine, was never carrying a purse.

"and yet "lesbian voice" is more or less nonexistent?"

Do you have ears, OP?

^^ Uh... you fuggaht mee, guhls!

R106 - clipped, terse, unhappy sounding? A bit nasally?

I’ve been told by a lot of people that I sound like the actor who does Archer’s voice. So is a cartoon voice better than a normal affect gay lilt?

R109 So you sound like a fat sloppy bear.

If there was an entry in Webster's for lesbian voice, my picture would be there. Probably this picture:

Or this....

I think fem guys just stick out so much more. Men are more extreme in general. Gay men do not act like women at all to me, they have this dominant speaking tone and need to impress others that straight men have. Most women are more nuanced and more socially intelligent, so less flashy and attention-seeking. The butch lesbian voice is real but it can be mistaken for just stern or tomboyish.

Or this....

John Malkovich has gay voice for daaaays.

[quote][R65] many gay boys subconsciously mimic abs pick up female voices

Why is this bit of folk "wisdom" endlessly repeated. I do not think it is true at all, and this assumption is just someone's idea of a cause and effect. I am also speaking from my own experience as a gay child where I was uniquely concerned with what other children were doing and saying, not female adults.

It's a lazy assumption. I believe if influenced by nothing at all plenty of gays will still have gay voice.

Perhaps because higher percentage of men are genetically predisposed to being gay, hence the obviously gay 6 yr old boy.

Perhaps being a gay or bisexual woman is more of a choice.

I accept the oncoming flaming comments…

I really think the gay voice is just a vocal type. Plenty of straight boys can sound gay. Genetics play a big role in your voice. Hence families sounding similar. But I reiterate that gay boys and straight boys with stereotypically gay voices all still sound like males.

R117 I’ve known lesbians that say they knew they were gay as young as 2 years old

Of course these are the extremely butch, mistaken for men type of lesbians

I do think women have more of an option to experiment, it’s even pushed and celebrated now by the same people who hate gay/bi men (how the fuck does that work?)

However, a lot of men these days will experiment too on the downlow of course and do gay things, some even come to a realization that they’re bisexual, but just because sex with men feels good, still would only have relationships with women

I even know 2 gay guys, who in their older years fell for…. Women, one married her and started having kids in his late 40s with her, the other goes back and forth between men and women, and he was only 100% gay prior

Those of you talking about straight guys with gay voice: you know with most gay men with "gay voice" it's much more than just the way they talk.

It's the body language, the way they walk, the exaggerated female hand and facial gestures, and other similar actions that scream "gay"

Easy example are the effeminate boys who carried their school books against their chest rather than at their side.

I think that for some boys it is innate and for others it is learned behavior.

[quote]"It's almost rare that lesbians have long hair." Yeah, except that this isn't true. Huge majority of both femme and tomboy lesbians have long hair. Just because you assume that every woman with long hair you seeia straight, doesn't mean she is.

And not every guy who sounds a little bet feminine is gay. But they tend to be and you can not convince me that the majority, NOT ALL of the women how sport a buzz cut short hair style TEND to be lesbians. I am not talking about just short hair, I am talking about when the sides are buzzed like a boy who might do going into the military. Straight women usually just don't go for that cut. It's not feminine looking to THEM.

Because Gay Voice is pleasant, and Lesbian Voice is harsh and unpleasant.

The Lesbian Cut. Notice a theme?

We don't really know how we sound to others, even if we record our voice.

So has anyone asked a friend, "Do I have gay voice?"

[quote] lesbians don't have the gay voice but so many have the dykey hair cut.

There is a practical reason why a woman might want a short hair cut. Is there some practical reason behind an affected voice? Maybe i have missed something.

Yes, you missed something R125. As other posters have said, perhaps young boys identify with women more growing up and take on some of those characteristic subconsciously. Just like young girls coming out identify with men more and want to look like them in terms of style.

So you are saying this voice is natural?

Style is not a physical characteristic. Voice is.

Jane Lynch has lesbian voice

R106 There are millions of straight women that have a voice like those mentioned. There aren't men straight men that have a gay voice

R121 Yeah, this has nothing at all to do with what you said. You said that lesbians with long hair are rare, when most lesbians have long hair.

R111 So, a picture of a straight woman? Gotcha.

R117 Perhaps you are an idiot.

I have gay Southern voice. I have been told that I sound like Truman Capote.

It’s just as likely that straight people accentuate extremes in their voices as that gay people add affectations . Maybe gay voice is normal voice.

Anyway here’s an article on how hormones impact pitch.

You do realize R121 that a haircut is a conscious style decision where one's voice is not, right?

We can also throw in all the gay men who have that Macklemore undercut haircut.

It's one of the easiest ways to spot a gay gay as the only people with those haircuts are working class white guys and gay men of all social classes.

Which is funny because, given how class obsessed gay men are, they've chosen something that in 2021 is probably one of the two most obvious visible class markers (a giant tattoo across the collarbone being the other.)

You see that haircut on gay guys in their 40s and 50s too, which is super cringe.

Another note: lesbians rarely adopt the over the top speech patterns of straight men ("Yo! 'Sup brah!") whereas many gay men use language traditionally associated with women. (Everything from "fabulous!" to "spill some tea", etc>)

Similarly, lesbians don't refer to each other as "him" and "her" whereas many gay men refer to other gay men as "SIs", "Sh" and "Her"

^"She"

The Macklemore haircut? Tastee Freez?

R136, a lot or most of those over that top feminine speech and languages originates with or is popularized by gay men.

Canevoice is when they whistle their “S”, like they can’t unclench their jaw. Think Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs.

In school my first male crush was on a straight boy who sounded gay. Everyone asked him if he was gay, and teased him about it, and he said he wasn’t. He later got a girlfriend.

^^and then he died

The clenched jaw speech is the upper class Mid-Atlantic accent pattern from the wealthier areas of the Northeast US.

This whole thread makes me distinctly uncomfortable. Please stop.

[quote] Gay voice as a child is because so many gayling boys identify with the women around them - so they subconsciously mimic them and that becomes "normal" traits for them.

[quote]I think we're going to find, in the future, many of these types of boys are actually trans and more ID as female.

Oh, just SAY the gay away, r91?

[quote]I spend a lot of time trying to teach women not to talk with baby voice.

God bless you, R32. You're doing a service to humanity, or at least humanity's ears.

[quote]Jodie Foster is said to have lesbian voice

No, Jodie speaks flawless French. Her French can fool natives thinking she was a native French speaker.

[quote] Because Gay Voice is pleasant, and Lesbian Voice is harsh and unpleasant.

Not to me it isn’t!

[quote] I think we're going to find, in the future, many of these types of boys are actually trans and more ID as female.

The vast majority of them will grow up to be gay men, just as we suspect they are now. A very tiny percentage will be trans.

[quote] The vast majority of them will grow up to be gay men who post on Datalounge, just as we suspect they do now.

Fixed

Rate its gay voice please

Yes, that too, R150.

When you're 'happy' and/content with your life you're more expressive. Especially the quality of the relationship you have with yourself and others.

The notion of masculinity does not allow for vulnerability which can be encapsulated in the saying "boys don't cry".

I've also read that women have a wider range of words to do with describing their emotional states and are, in general, better at expressing their feelings and generally happier for it. That means more words to get out which means more words to be delivered that increases the pitch and speed.

Being in the 'closet' is such a great burden and so desperately lonely, it improved my quality of life, in that aspect much better and I imagine it's the same for a lot of gay men and women.

I mention that the closet because speaking quickly which begets a higher pitch in the voice and can also be a sign of low self-confidence, anxiety and a lack of belief in the quality of the words being delivered. These things we and I have internalised do stay with me in one way or another.

As I've gotten older and worked on becoming more confident my pace of speech has slowed down and I speak more from my diaghphram so sound more 'masculine'. Anyone can do that.

That's mostly speculation and anecdotal (if not all) take it as you will.

I also never had an issue with saying 's' in words without lisping. It's something I picked up after I came out and spent time with other gay men. I've worked that out bei of course in many if not most places gay men aren't see as authoritative, for a multitude of reasons, and I would include that 'gay lisp'. I find it's a good way to kinda indicate to someone you're gay in a way without really thinking about it and I've found it useful.

I don't have gay voice and none of my friends has it. Many years there was a friend in my group of friends with a gay voice but he was the only one and I haven't seen him in more than 25 years.

[quote]There is a practical reason why a woman might want a short hair cut. Is there some practical reason behind an affected voice? Maybe i have missed something.

LOL only a lesbian would say that. Straight woman NEVER regard their choice of hair style for practical reasons. Its a billion dollar industry! Like makup, which of course lesbian tend to hate.

John Ritter had a gay accent on Three's Company. He never seemed particularly heterosexual in spite of his wives and kids.

FF R151 Posting from far right garbage. Their most popular video is saying T"The Storm Is Upon Us" a pro Trump propaganda site.

It's not the voice that makes them seem gay

It's all the stuff that goes with it-- the flouncing and mincing and over the top hand movements as well what they are saying and the loud tones they are saying it in.

The caftan might be tip-off, too.

The more gay guys Hang with and fit in with their straight male peers, the less likely they have gay Voice. I think gay men who don’t integrate with mainstream men tend to pick up feminisms traits from hanging with women and other effeminate males.

Feminine traits

Only self-haters want to hang out with “masc” straight men over their own.

We're not an ethnic group R162

R163

Where do I say that, bitch?

R162, their “own.” Many gay and bi people don’t place sexuality at the core or center of their identity

Except when you're "mostly straight" or a "brosexual", then it's acceptable and should be applauded, apparently.

Is everyone who has gay voice gay or bi?

You know like the guys with gay voice who insist they're straight, but love when gays hit on them.

Or *hate* when gays hit on them, r167.

Where are DL's lesbian comments? I'm looking at you Rescue-Chick!!

There’s defo a lesbian voice that’s common enough to spot.

I think of it fondly as ‘stern PE teacher’ voice.

[quote] lesbians rarely adopt the over the top speech patterns of straight men ("Yo! 'Sup brah!") whereas many gay men use language traditionally associated with women. (Everything from "fabulous!" to "spill some tea", etc) Similarly, lesbians don't refer to each other as "him" and "her" whereas many gay men refer to other gay men as "SIs", "Sh" and "Her"

My straight Ladette sister uses ‘man’ and ‘bro’ in casual conversation all the time, and the younger more Townie Hetero/bi friends of hers ones use ‘geez’ sometimes as well.

As a lesbian, I don’t think that’s so healthy. Many men—both straight and gay—would prefer it if women only existed as silent, faceless domestics and nurses and dolls or otherwise disguised ourselves with no way to refer to each other by what we truthfully are. Why help them in their crusade?

So, both gay men and lesbians tend to wear their hair in an undercut style?

I tend to think that over the top gays act a lot like over the top black women. Very theatrical.

R155 no straight woman chooses her haircut for practicality?

All of the straight women I've known have done just that since the 1980s aquanet days ended.

Robin Roberts has lesbian voice. She was not out for years, but there was something in her way of speaking that screamed lezzy lez the first time I heard her speak.

OP I think the phenomenon you’ve described is more a case of society and communities more closely scrutinising the sexual orientations of young boys & men, perhaps due to crushing and outmoded patriarchal anxieties about virility and lineage and ancestral shame etc. Young men in many cultures across the world are still expected to perform and produce straightness to alleviate fears over familial mortality and strength. This may be why any deviations from conventional straightness are immediately catalogued, and why babygay boys may use these qualities as social signals to identity safe harbours in each other.

On the other hand, girls & women are unfortunately socialised to just ‘BE SEXUAL’ in any given direction at too young an age, because all the patriarchy wants to do with females is either fuck them or watch them fucking, like objects to be used, with no real care what consequences this may or may not have. Therefore, no-one except the churchiest and most homophobic of groups is checking girls as closely for signs of lesbianism or w/w attraction and solidarity, because in the eyes of her community, as long as she can still titillate and be raped who cares what she wants or how butch she is?

It’s sad on both counts.