Is drama training a wise investment?

[quote] some of the most popular and highest paid actors haven't had training.

They aren't actors. They stand in front of a camera.

I interview actors/people on TV.

Some of the best ones have no training; some of the worst ones have all the training in the world.

[quote] I just can't imagine the amount of debt that acting students garner when there's apparently such a small chance of acquiring a decent paying job in the field.

It is a very poor investment. The Casting Couch is abetter investment.

It's not what you know but who you know.

I wouldn't go into debt for it. The pay-off is speculative at best.

It does seem like some of the best actors and actresses didn't have training.

Then, look at Madonna, who can afford one-on-one acting coaches. Terrible.

Training is good. I'm not convinced MFA programs are the best route. Miguel Ferrer mentioned working in playhouses as his apprenticeship. That seemed to have worked well for him.

Christ, I've been to scene study classes and improv classes and they can really be insufferable. A lot of times the people who think they're going to be famous are just so fucking delusional about their looks and talent. Sorry, but obviously you have to have a certain look to be an actor. I used to do Central Casting background jobs when I lived in LA and I'd meet the most insane nutcases during the shoots. People who literally moved to LA to "be actors" who would be full time extras. And the majority of these loonies were 4's at best. It was really depressing to hear these 29 year olds dressed up as "18tly" middle schoolers talking about how they'd been auditioning for years and years and never landed so much as a commercial. I don't fucking get it.

As far as schooling for any creative venture goes, I'm not sure how they swing it either. I don't know how any recent high school graduate could come up with the funds to pay for the tuition and rent that goes with it. It seems like a lot of popular actors are children of moderately successful creatives themselves, if not straight up famous actors like Dakota Johnson's lineage.

No.

[quote] Does anyone have a degree in acting?

Go to RADA or some other English drama school,

US drama schools are like putting "lipstick on a pig".

The ONLY reason to go to acting school is to make contacts. If you're taking the course outside of LA or NY (or online!), it is useless.

Have you guys seen many episodes of James Lipton's Inside the Actors' Studio? At the end of the interviews, they take questions from the audience (students). "Hi, I'm Dan, first-year director." "Hi, I'm Dolores, second-year actor." Some of them are misty-eyed, etc. This made me think that the school is mostly a place for people with enough money to blow on chasing their dreams.

It depends where you do it.

USC and UCLA are not great places for dramatic training: the best places in the US are probably the graduate programs at Yale, Julliard, and NYU.

RADA and BADA in the UK are even better.

[quote] If you're taking the course outside of LA or NY (or online!), it is useless.

And avoid the Lavarious Slaughter Academy of Dramatic Art.

If you have it, you have it. I’d you don’t, you don’t.

Drama school and acting classes teach useful skills like singing, stage fighting, vocal projection and script analysis. They also give opportunity to experiment - and fail - privately.

But they won’t give you talent.

Honey, all you need is a bad, too much to drink, a setting no less than semi-public and you got [italic]dra-mah![/italic]. Think less, talk more - and loud!

[quote] RADA and BADA in the UK are even better

Sure, RADA produced Anthony Hopkins and Sean Bean.

It also Joan Collins and Laurence Fox.

He’s a YALE MAN!

A DRAMATUGE!!!!

DON'T put your daughter o the Stage!

Who the fuck told you I didn't go to Yale School of Drama? I wasn't just born to shit in the bucket, gurl.

[quote] 4-time Oscar Winner

Kate Hepburn does not use four letter profanities.

I read somewhere that a lot of agents in Hollywood don't take anybody older than early 20s who aspires to be a leading man or lady. There just isn't enough time to build them a career.

Most Hollywood stars start out as kids or teens on commercials and work their way up through TV dramas and then move into films if they make the right contacts, have the right look, and also have that all-important "IT" factor. They learn on the job, not in drama school. A lot of them don't have any more practical education than a GED.

[quote] Kate Hepburn does not use four letter profanities.

We Yankees swear. Once the trash leaves the room.

At Yale I had the opportunity to develop my craft to the point where I actually won an Oscar for shitting in a bucket. Worth every penny.

I spent two summers at RADA in different programs. I met and stay in contact with a lot of the regular students (on social media.)

Tom Hiddleston and Andrea Riseborough are the only one that became famous.

The others though did seem to get lots of jobs in London and other parts of the countries. It must be very humbling though. One month they are starring at the RSC the next they are working at Kentucky Fried Chicken.

It seems many drop out of acting as they get older and want to start families or just live a more stable life.

Don't you have to be a professional or trained to get an agent and he lost if SAGAFTRA and other actors associations anyway? Isn't that part of the road to success?

It's all changed so much in recent years. By the time you get out of an MFA program you are like 25, 26. With the youth movement that is almost getting too old.

I know a person who got plucked out of USC (undergrad) from the graduation showcase. She got an agent who specialized in people over 18 who could still play teens. They said they'd get her started but then she'd have to and want to move on from them.

They did get her started and she worked pretty steadily thru like 30. Then it just seemed to end for her.

Back in the day Meryl and Sigourney went to Yale etc. and became stars (first on the NY stage.) That doesn't seem to happen anymore. You got to be a teen actor first. Go thru rehab and the emerge as an adult if you are lucky!

Julliard's most succesful almuni were mostly kicked out or quit (Robin Williams, Kelsey Grammar, Kevin (yuck) Spacey, Janet Aunt Viv Hubet)

I liked Viola Davis' description of Juilliard. (yes she suffered there too.)

She said it is like Mucinex. Tough going down but it works. (They criticize your looks, your body, your weight she said. You sit there on a panel and evaluate you periodically. It has supposedly gotten better in recent years since they like most schools are more aware of mental health (and especially the fear of lawsuits.)

^ She suffers everywhere.

I don't understand the praise for Viola Davis. She's alright. My question is: what would someone like Viola Davis do if she had spent the time and money on Juilliard and it never panned out? Surely these acting programs have thousands of students over the years who do not become film stars like Viola Davis or Oscar Isaac. HOW do these people pay down loans like that?

I agree with the person who said it seems like a person must have showbiz parents to hustle them as a child to get them into it. As an adult trying to break in no one wants to hire someone with no set experience. Plus, adults have to pay their own way and that means on top of all the bills one already has, one must also pay for all of the things that go along with being an aspiring actor.

Harvard shut down their MFA acting program because too many students were complaining they had no jobs but like 250K in debt.

As for payment of those BFAs and MFAs, Chandra Wilson attended Tisch, worked constantly in bit parts in everything from Philadelphia to Sex And the City and was working at a bank when she auditioned for Grey’s Anatomy.

Similarly to her namesake Viola , Judy Davis loathed her time at Australia’s NIDA and spent the last 45 years telling teenage actors on set that the experience will destroy them. She (still) likes her erstwhile drama school Romeo, Mad Mel Gibson, though.

[quote] Judy Davis loathed…

Dear Judy loathes everything she can shake a stick at. She's OK on screen but I wouldn't believe anything she says.

A lot of the people who go to MFA programs are from rich families. (you'd kind of have to be a fool if you went into debt for it.)

If you didn't need the cachet of an MFA, you used to be able to take classes at HB Studio in NY by folks like Uta Hagen, Sandy Dennis, Austin Pendleton, Helen Gallagher, etc for about $65 each class per semester. Still not too expensive when that school last offered classes. Some great teachers, some not -- same with the students, but you could put together your own curriculum there and/or at other places and still put them on your resume without running up a huge student loan debt.

Any learning or training is good for you. First off, you learn the art of learning new skills. Secondly, drama training helps you to get in touch with yourself and your inner workings.

Sure, talent and know-how are important. But what separates the winner from the losers is to be excellent at networking. That's how you get a good talent manager who gets you into auditions where you can network further. Ruthless ambition helps, too.

r8 RADA only accepts like one or two Americans a year. (and those usually have a parent that is English so they can get work there afterwards.)

English drama schools got hit hard by a law a few years ago prohibiting them from giving student aid to people who already had a BA. (such as Tom Hiddleston.)

Now all the students have to be earning their first BA whereas 10 years ago people would go to Oxford or someplace get a BA and then get a second one at RADA.

It has cut the quality of the students down. Plus it is more diverse. You used to be able to look at the list of graduates and pick out the best looking ones and sure enough those would be the ones who would get the best agents etc. (see Hiddleston)

Nowadays I bet agents look at the pages and just make a quick pass on most of them. Too young. Too ugly. Too ethnic. (Sorry to be so offensive but that is how they think.)

[quote] Too ugly. Too ethnic

Ugly and ethnic is very much required now at the BBC.

They have quotes to fill.

I agree and disagree -- there are some really rather destructive teachers out there, too. I had one at college who emphasized how hard things were out there at auditions, though he clearly hadn't auditioned in years. He was an older not very-good looking character gent, and he favored very good-looking young women and men, and discouraged even good-looking character people, like saying maybe you should study arts management instead. Like Priscilla Lopez singing "Nothing" in "A Chorus Line", I found a better class and teacher. Also, I got a lot of experience in opera repertory companies, figuring it's similar to musical theater, and got tons of experience doing more than 45 roles, many with full orchestra. Learned from more experienced people at first, stage directors, conductors, etc. and eventually I was one of the veterans helping younger people. Of course, voice lessons and coachings for opera are real expensive, so I eventually moved over to musicals and non-musical acting. My class training as an actor helped me protect myself from some overacting opera acting style which they sometimes thought they wanted from people. I feel bad some of the smaller and medium-size opera companies and repertory theaters aren't around anymore. The experience of doing plays and musicals is another reason people go to these MFA programs, too. I was happy to be paid as I got experience.

Some acting teacher clearly have favorites, and some become like gurus. One teacher I had was so brilliant that he was a bit like a guru. and I got tired of his repeating some stories all the time over different semesters, and of his love for Marlon Brando (who I like his 50s work but isn't one of my favorites otherwise); however some of the stuff he said was so terrific and helpful, it was worth putting up with the clutter since he wasn't abusive, and he actually taught a technique that worked. But I also think you the take parts of things you learn from different people that work for you as your own technique.

[quote] English drama schools got hit hard by a law a few years ago prohibiting them from giving student aid to people who already had a BA. (such as Tom Hiddleston.)

Right. they have to choose now between student aid for college or for drama school - can't have both. I think that includes student loans as well.

That makes sense to me.

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Oh, dear!

Sorry, that should have been as follows:

[quote] quotes to fill

Oh, dear doubly!

I took 2 acting class in college. They were great but honestly, one class kinda teaches you what you need to know. Acting isn't technically demanding unless you are getting into Shakespeare or specific theatre stuff which can be pretty involved. For the average tv show/basic film acting you see these days, personal attributes matter more than training. Work ethic, overall look, vibe, etc. go a long way.

[quote] It has cut the quality of the students down. Plus it is more diverse. You used to be able to look at the list of graduates and pick out the best looking ones and sure enough those would be the ones who would get the best agents etc. (see Hiddleston)

Tom Hiddlestone got his agent in his years prior to RADA when he worked in the HBO Nazi drama Conspiracy with Kenneth Branagh.

And for real, Tom Hiddleston’s his year’s”hot” one? Blimey…

Funnily enough, Michaela Coel and Paapa Essiedu talked about how in their 3rd year Guildhall showcases, they were cast in lead rolls “experimental” predications in small venues in, say, Croydon, and as no agents deigned to go plays that far south of the river they got zero representation out of the whole drama school experience.

Probably still worth more than an MFA in *Creative* Writing

If you can get a scholarship or have parents to foot the bill for a degree program, or otherwise find a reasonably priced classes, plus have good teachers who constructively helps you and doesn't just criticize, acting classes can be worthwhile. Some actors who graduated Juilliard said some of the teachers there basically criticized and tore them apart with their words, almost to break them and (hopefully) build them up again. I don't think that is necessary nor helpful. It's enough of a Darwinian survival of the fittest once you get out into the auditioning world.

Training can be valuable, but experience is essential. I've never met an MFA in the theatre who had a clue about how things work in the real world. I know a barista with an MFA in acting who hasn't acted in the years since graduation because he was taught that you don't go to auditions -you wait for offers. And an MFA in stage lighting who didn't know how to change a gel (admittedly a skill no longer needed -but it was then). As someone already said above, you can't teach talent. But you can teach people to be professionals in their chosen craft, and that is something you can pick up by working with good people -no degree program needed. Degrees, agents, headshots, and padded resumes can't substitute for talent and experience.

[quote] Tom Hiddlestone got his agent in his years prior to RADA when he worked in the HBO Nazi drama Conspiracy with Kenneth Branagh.

OT but that was excellent. Just chilling. Hiddlestone played a telephone operator. The Wannsee Villa still stands, now as a museum to the Holocaust and the conference. It's gorgeous in a particularly beautiful section of Berlin. Heydrich had the SS buy that house so he could use it as his personal residence after the war. Too bad he got blown up before he could live the good life in it.

More OT: At the time of his assassination, Heydrich was living grandly in the villa that belonged to Woman in Gold's Maria Altmann's uncle before the Nazis drove him out of Czechoslovakia. Like so many other nazis, Heydrich liked the good life.

If you want a career in the United States in the professional theater (meaning Broadway, NY Off-Broadway, or major regional), then you need an MFA from Yale, NYU, or Juilliard. Perhaps there are one or two others that can help--Trinity at Brown?--but that's about it. The rest are not worth it. Those schools have fine teachers and you can of course get some great training, but really those MFA programs are there to make money. Again, you can find an exception here and there, like Trinity at Brown flows into Trinity Rep. But an MFA from U of Washington Seattle isn't going to get you very far--I know a fellow actor who *didn't even get a showcase* at the end of her 3-year MFA at U of Washington Seattle.

The three letters M-F-A will open doors for you on the East Coast in terms of getting high-level theater auditions and some TV and film. But nowadays, on-camera actors are coming more and more from other disciplines and from other ranks. Folks coming from music, dance, modelling. Also folks with special skills, or they're an unusual type. I think you can break into TV and film work easier without the MFA.

As others have noted above, some of the best performances I've seen on film came from people who were either non-actors, first-time actors, and/or had little to no acting experience. I think training in something like acting is beneficial for learning the basic mechanics of the craft, but I presume that an MFA program is going to be more useful for someone who plans on doing theater exclusively. There are so many formalities and factors in stage acting that film acting either does not adhere to, or does not demand. Stage performances are ephemeral and require a different skill set that is almost athletic in nature. Film actors have to learn a different set of rules of course, but the performance aspect is not usually as rigid because it's not being done for a live audience. There is more room for mistakes and experimentation , hence the "magic" of movies.

Consider the young people in the Harry Potter films. They were a major part of a long-running film franchise, but who is still working in film or theater today? Daniel Radcliffe is not one of the world's greatest actors, but he is competent (I mean that in a good way), dedicated, and hard-working. Evanna Lynch, who played Luna, had no prior acting experience and received great reviews for her characterization. She continues to work on stage as well. They didn't have MFAs -they had experience. Of course name value and public recognition help too...

[quote]RADA and BADA in the UK are even better

what the hell is BADA?

BADA is just a semester abroad kind of place I think. I heard it was kind of a joke and for kids who want to party in London for a while. (British Academy of Dramatic Arts)

r44 I thought Tom Hiddleston was the most attractive man in his class. He's the only one I remember crushing on and trying to find out if he was gay. When I asked a girl I was friends with "what's his story" she got awkward and was freaked and said why do you ask because we dated for a while. I covered saying I just thought he was nice. She agreed he was.

I heard Hiddleston got signed by that top agency when they saw him in college in A Streetcar Named Desire. (I could never figure out if he played Stanley or Mitch. He didn't seem like a Stanley type.)

[quote]BADA is just a semester abroad kind of place I think. I heard it was kind of a joke and for kids who want to party in London for a while. (British Academy of Dramatic Arts)

wrong

BADA = British American Drama Academy

[quote]I was watching some MFA acting showcases on YouTube from UCLA and USC and I honestly thought the quality of work was terrible.

yet no links OP

very odd

whatever its called r55 it doesn't have a good reputation

I work in a small city theater scene. Some main stage, some black box. I get paid but it's just a side gig as my real career pays me much much more. I have no formal training but take occasional classes from people I like and trust here in the area. I also take occasional voice lessons to prep for roles in musical theater. I'm in the local opera chorus (and you can learn a ton from watching the pros in the leads plus they tend to be the nicest people) and I book an occasional local commercial or video project. I have no interest in formal training or an MFA. It would take years, and wouldn't help me one whit. I may never be on Broadway but I've gotten to play roles in the first regional production after Broadway a few times, have a lot of friends in the local arts community making rehearsals a lot of fun, and challenge myself. I'm pushing sixty now and have to learn one of the Reindeer Monologues for a holiday run. Memory ain't what it used to be and we don't have the budgets for earpieces...

R56, here is one video of a UCLA MFA student. It’s terrible.

UC San Diego MFA showcase. This is so awkward and funny because they’re doing socially distanced scenes through webcam. What a scam!

Colombia MFA showcase.

[quote] some of the best performances I've seen on film came from people who were either non-actors, first-time actors, and/or had little to no acting experience.

You are right, R50, screen performers are NOT actors. 90% of those that Dataloungers obsess over have ho acting skills at all.

Just like the majority of 20th century singers who RELY on microphones can't sing. They merely croon into the electronic amplification.

Thanks, r61. Clayton McInerney got his MFA from Columbia in 2020. I hope he's successful.

I thought the UCLA showcase Was passable, but UCSD and Columbia--ouch.

I've had the misfortune to have to see a lot of student theatre and I agree with the poster who said acting talent is uncommon. I'd say there are a lot of actors at the student level who don't really get what acting is--the entering into and embodying a character while doing all the things that keep an audience engaged. The real trick is when you can do that and have the combination of imagination and confidence to make that character interesting. Andrew Scott has some of that. His choices are eccentric, but he commits to them, which always makes him interesting to watch.

I switched from classical music to acting in my early 30s and I really despaired over not having an MFA. It got to the point where I considered getting an MFA in my mid-30s. I thought, what the heck, the training will be amazing (I'm in NYC) and it'll open doors for me.

As I continued to ponder this, I was working in theater in NYC and regionally, and I worked with a variety of actors who had just finished their MFAs. What I was struck by was they were so **young**. And that was something I hadn't thought of-- most actors go straight from their BA or BFA (at age 22) into a MFA program, to finish at age 24 or 25. Think of how young that still is! Extremely talented, well-trained actors for sure, but still green in terms of years spent on Earth. I just couldn't imagine being in class all day with a bunch of 24 year-olds. (That and the insane debt an MFA puts you in.) So I never did it. Not much regret, frankly. Though of course I bow with admiration towards actors who can navigate out of a tough MFA into the world.

And a minor, but interesting point-- Juilliard never had an MFA in acting til fairly recently. It was always about the prestige of their undergrad program, when they'd strip you down and build you back up, etc. I think the MFA program (or is it just a certificate?) is more of a money-making thing. But maybe another DLer knows more on that.

As someone said on here not too long ago, how hard can it be, stand here say that, easy peasy!

R59, that has to be some joke or a parody of drama school.

R65 Literally strip you down? There were some drama teachers known for requiring "private moment" exercises in class where you'd do something you'd only do in private -- many actors took that as a cue to disrobe, jerk off, etc. Also, some teachers assigned their students nude scenes for scene study. Not specifically aimed at Juilliard, though you can correct me.

Talk to us about wise investments - not only do we make a product there's little demand for, we don't do it well enough to have it really catch on. The Broadway writers who achieve success and have people humming their songs learned how to do it elsewhere. Our careers are entirely in the non-profit echo chamber where if our work doesn't catch on, it's not because it's bad...it's because the audience is too stupid to get it.

Unless you can get into one of the two or three very best drama schools, the money is better spent on an education on some fall-back career, then go to a good, and I mean good acting workshop where you can learn your craft. Even if you can get into a top school, maybe the money is still better spent on a real education. I know a guy who graduated from Juilliard drama, gifted, beyond talented and handsome, but works as a building contractor and does community theater .

[quote] As someone said on here not too long ago, how hard can it be, stand here say that, easy peasy!

Oh, you'd be surprised.

Sigourney Weaver hated Yale MFA. I remember her on Charlie Rose where she insisted she didn't learn anything there that she used in her career. Rose pushed that she must have learned something. She jokingly pounded the table saying no no no I learned nothing!

She also said Meryl was in her class and Meryl was as talented the first day as she was when she left. She insisted Yale didn't create Meryl except for giving her a place to be seen. She said Meryl also had troubles there too. (Meryl has said she felt hated by other students because she always got the lead roles. So she skipped some auditions to let other people have a chance and was put on academic probation.)

You can cobble together the skills you need to be a professional performer by finding classes and teachers. Besides scene study and acting technique, I took classes along the way in ballet, jazz, modern, tap and fencing, studied languages and diction, etc. Singing and vocal coaching are expensive though, but after a while you can cut them back to every two weeks (or half lessons), however you can better afford it, as many teachers will work with you (most need the money, too).

If you're studying drama in a conservatory, they'll give you history of theatre, masks, movement, singing (more likely in a class rather than privately), stage combat, etc. For musical theater, you'll get more dance and probably private lessons. But those degrees are very expensive, and a lot of times you can do just as well on your own.

Masks? There better not be any feather headdresses.

Went to a MFA thesis production from Actor's Studio/Pace last week, and damn if a lot of the actors didn't mumble their lines. Couldn't hear them, and we were in a black box. Clearly the school doesn't teach projection, and it'll be a disservice to all those actors as they face the real world.

Juilliard was designed as a conservatory. No one is going there for a academics. You're right R65. Until recently, the Juilliard Drama Division offered both a BA degree and a conservatory certificate, with no difference at all in the theater training. One's class, or Group, as it's still called at Juilliard, consisted of both 17 and 18 year-olds (getting the BA) and college graduates or students older than that who had been working professionally. No difference (though the BA was more expensive.) The younger BA candidates took a few academics along with younger students in the Dance and Music Divisions. The option of the MFA for those who had come to Juilliard as college graduates now allows them to be able to teach at a university as professor, not an adjunct, and to get on tenure track. That's the value of the MFA. Examples of graduates who received certificates are Laura Linney, Brad Whitford, and Tim Blake Nelson

The main part of the training is in the first two years ( the "breaking down" that Viola Davis describes.) The second two years is more focused on performance. In the early years of the program, an "advanced" student might be added to the last two years, depending on who had been cut from the original class and what "type" was needed to created an ensemble. Kevin Kline and Chris Reeve were advanced students. Juilliard stopped the Advanced Program around 1984, as it wasn't working well, and some time after that, they stopped cutting the class. It's still rigorous, but a kinder and gentler place now, beginning especially with changes made Jim Houghton, ex of Signature Theater. The head of program currently is Yale graduate and director Evan Yionoulis. She's terrific.

And yes, to the private moments, R68! Though I don't remember nude scenes being assigned by teachers, clothes were shred and jerks did happen.

I don't know if it's been mentioned above, but Yale Drama is now tuition-free, thanks to David Geffen. Go there!

Please, do not spend money getting some fancy degree in acting. It’s the equivalent of getting a degree in weightlifting.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t go to acting classes, which can be a good actor’s gym and can be a good place to experiment with material and find out what roles you’re good at.

But I have a friend who got an MFA in acting at UConn. He is still stuck with $100K debt. The sad thing is… he’s from Orange County, he was so close to the industry, and he moved away to Connecticut where there was no industry.

Acting degrees are for rich people. But I don’t see any correlation with acting degrees and success as an actor.

This is an interesting thread; I've heard actors interviewed who never went to drama school & they seem self-conscious about it, but then you look at someone like Adam Driver & it's not hard to think that he probably wouldn't be where he is today without formal training

I thought it was interesting that Meryl’s youngest daughter got an MFA from Yale recently. She’s 30.

If Meryl’s connections aren’t enough to get you started in terms of getting work, Yale isn’t going to do shit.

She doesn’t seem great here…

The point of getting an MFA in acting is so you can TEACH. 90% of actors have a B job. The best B job around is teaching acting. Of course the school is going to let you have all the time you want off for work. The more recent credits you have, the better it looks for the school. This is what 90% of those actors who show up on Law & Order do between jobs.

Going to school for connections is a secondary reason. The reason that one heard about Yale ad nauseam was that there was a class that was very loyal to its fellow classmates and formed a rather closed "Yale Mafia". Lightning doesn't often hit twice. I know of very few examples of this loyalty to ones classmates reached the extent of Yale in the late 1970s. Still, you might make one or two connections that will help you latter on.

R77, Yale? Tuition-free? How? Does that literally mean that the degree is free? Wtf?

True, R79. Though, Adam Driver used his GI Bill for Juilliard but I think it only covers a certain maximum amount. Maybe back when he went there it was enough.

I'm reading Alan Cumming's new memoir and the way he describes it, when he went to drama school at 17 he already done well in school and community theater and "acting" in photo stories in a teen magazine. He enjoyed performing, knew he was good at it and was primed to make it his life's work. That's how it should be when you go to college, whatever it is you're planning to study. Not everybody who goes to drama school becomes a star, but not everybody who goes to law school becomes a lawyer either.

Also now with social media and the obsession with how many followers young actors have - it seems to make BFA/MFA programs even less necessary. You hear (struggling) actors bitching all the time about how casting directors are obsessed with your following on Instagram, this seems to further undermine the idea that some 26 year old with an MFA would be seen as a hot commodity.

But for those in the industry - how do you think social media impacts this?

[quote] You hear (struggling) actors bitching all the time about how casting directors are obsessed with your following on Instagram,

This is interesting. I read some interview of the acting wife of a much more famous actor bitching she couldn't get auditions because not enough IG followers. Both are in their mid to late 30s. When I checked her account I saw ever since the day they got married she constantly posts about him and now their child and she gets her followers from his very many female fans who even comment about helping her get her stats up. Despite her drama schooland him, she still barely has a career - apart from the role of "wife of" and their personal paparazzi.

Who ever heard of a gay male that needed training in drama?

Who? Names please. R86

I think that the lack of SM followers is also a very convenient excuse to turn someone down. You don't have to tell them they're a crap actor.

As a Pittsburgh native I'll mention CMU and Point Park here. Both are of course not quite at the level of the Tier One schools mentioned about for MFA, but CMU in particular seems to have a solid pathway for graduates to get work.

Point Park is more focused on theater, and its dance and theater program can be a pipeline for Broadway, but a few film/TV actors have come from PPU.

Bottom training is more lucrative.

Surely..!

R10, yeah, but Brad Cooper asked a question once.

I think there was genuinely something lost in America when most actors became "plucked out of nowhere" rather than being Actors Studio or otherwise trained - and it wasn't just rich kids who were able to train. It probably has a lot to do with inflation and rising college costs and whatnot.

[quote] It probably has a lot to do with inflation and rising college costs and whatnot

Yep. The same problem exists in the UK. Tom Courtenay said he paid for RADA doing brick laying. The idea that fees could be raised today doing that is an impossibility.

British Drama schools must be struggling financially.

I know RADA had "no money" according to a teacher like 15 years ago when I was there for the summer.

LAMDA let go like 80 percent of their staff last year.

They both must be in dire straights now without the huge amount of Americans coming over for the summer. That really payed the bills.

Drama Centre another prestigious school is going out of business after the current classes graduate.

Wow, Drama Centre is closing? That’s crazy. A lot of stars have come from there. That’s too bad. I wonder what the future of screen acting will come to. Especially seeing as the highest grossing films nowadays are superhero shluck or the god awful streaming service productions. I’ve been watching American films from the 30’s-50’s and it’s incredible how few mediocre actors there are in those. Every single player in the Wizard of Oz is clearly working the assignment to the best of their ability. I just watched The Bride of Frankenstein and it was really striking how truly committed the cast was to their characters. You can really tell they all have technique and a specificity about their demeanor, rather than hamming it up aimlessly or being noncommittal.

Perhaps some of the millionaire film stars thay Drama Centre has cultivated could donate to the school?

Everybody knows acting talent runs in families. No amount of training will help. But sure, amuse yourselves while we get the parts you want!

Sure, boxing and muay thai help

R98 Are you being ironic? Characterisation?

Drama Centre closing article

Worse than the closing of the British drama schools is the end of the British rep company. Most of the great British actors credit their time doing rep for really teaching them acting. I think this is what made British actors different. When one is doing Macbeth one night and Dial M for Murder the next, one doesn't really have time wallow in ones-self.

Yes r104. Those rep companies must have been amazing to be a part of.

When I was at RADA it was sort of shocking. There were grads working in the kitchen of the cafeteria who had major credits and were even on TV shows at the same time.

I was told TV pays so little in the UK that some kind make ends meet.

One guy I met there married a British actress. She was on a nighttime soap. She was working crazy hours and was making less than she did as a receptionist. She quit after two years.

[quote]As a Pittsburgh native I'll mention CMU and Point Park here. Both are of course not quite at the level of the Tier One schools mentioned about for MFA, but CMU in particular seems to have a solid pathway for graduates to get work.

I thought I'd read—don't ask me where—that CMU's School of Drama was second in the US only to Yale's.

Northwestern turned out quite a few well-known professional actors, though Tony Roberts has rarely impressed me with anything other than his luck in getting gigs for over 50 years.

Its the wrong question. Of course its a bad investment if you're spending $250k on college to be an actor. And of course they're not great during their training. But like so many other things, the good ones grow in time and can use that education as a base or springboard to accelerate their craft.

Same thing for writers. You dont see too many students writing screenplays or books that sell. But many of the people who sell them later in life had training / education. They just need several years after to hone the craft and mature

Great conversation about this on the other two when the lead says he was in Fiddler on the Roof in high school and he was pretty good. He's informed by a drama teacher that a gay child playing a Jewish Russian peasant over 100 years ago could not have done the role justice. He realizes its true.

That gay Jewish peasant over 100 years ago wasn't singing Bock and Harnick songs though.

or even that straight Jewish peasant!

I always loved the part of "Baby, it's you" where the drama kid girl goes off to college and is told that pretty much everything she thinks she knows about acting is wrong. This is still what happens. Most high school "stars" don't know much about acting. They perform, they're loud, they have energy, but actual being in character and physically transforming isn't there.

Northwestern is an interesting case--a lot of the drama kids double major. NU makes it much easier to do than it was a few years ago. It's pretty much the only top-ranked program that doesn't require an audition or tape as part of its application. They do, however, cap admissions into the major and favor kids who have done their summer theatre program (which ends up working as an unofficial prescreen). Then, once all the kids are in, they do some sorting--they hold auditions for their musical theatre certificate--and put a hard cap on that. Senior year, they have a NY showcase and put a hard cap on that number as well. So no official cutting, but the end result is that 80 percent of the theatre majors at NU aren't brought to the NY showcase. NU takes a 100 students and filters down, whereas Carnegie Mellon accepts about 20 at the get-go, trains them all and then showcases them.

So similar numbers at the end, but different routes.

I was listening to an interview with G and she recommended going to a liberal arts college like she did (William and Mary) and majoring in theater (or something else.)

She said she got all the experience of a conservatory education but had so much fun. The other students weren't all theater majors so a lot of the people just did the plays for fun and they got along.

That was my impression from my summer at RADA. The people in the BA program were so competitive and jealous and then worried that they weren't getting shown off as much as some other student. It played on their egos too. (like she's thinner so she got the better part type stuff.)