Things That Seem Like Great Features When Buying A House, But Ultimately Prove Useless

Claw Foot Tubs - no problem is the floor is adapted

Big jJacuzzi-Style Tubs - good for certain people with ailments, but I'll give you this one. Just have a hot tub instead outside, by the barbecue area - and the

"Outdoor Dining Table" - what the fuck are you even talking about? This is a feature of a house for sale? It's furniture.

Pot-filler faucets -- how often are you filling 10 gallon pots to boil pasta

R2 said what i came in to say. I'M OUT!!

Dormer windows. While charming, they are prone to leaking.

Window seats.

Great if you are a cat, but most humans don't really fit on them and if it's winter, the window is cold

Warmer drawers - unless you are doing a whole lot of entertaining at home that involves food

Gift wrapping room. Pottery studio by the pool cabana.

Swimming pool unless covered and you are willing to pay for weekly service. In reality, often become just expensive reflecting pools.

Soaking tubs. Does anyone actually use those things?

A shopping mall in one's basement.

1) Giant Range Hoods: Unless you have a huge kitchen the giant range hoods serve little purpose. They look out of proportion in small spaces and take up too much wall space in the kitchen design. 2) Large Kitchen Sinks: I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion but the giant kitchen sinks also are not that useful. You can’t ever fill up the sink to hand wash glasses and they are harder to keep clean. Also I like to wash greens by putting them in water which is hard to do. You have to fill a pot and then you end up with an extra dish to wash. 3). Rain Shower Heads: I do not need water dumped on me. I don’t always want to get my hair wet and leg shaving is impossible without getting a nose full of water.

We bought a home a few years ago and indeed, the only thing our giant soaker tub has collected is dust.

Open plan living, even worse when ground and upper floors are connected.

Nobody wants to look at dirty dishes and open plan areas are impossible to keep warm in winter.

Get some separate rooms with doors!

I’m cracking up about your comment that people always fantasize about “having their coffee there”, and it’s so true.

I’ve lived in a high rise with a balcony for 15 years and have had maybe ten cups of coffee out there, the entire time. Same goes for evening cocktails.

Partner DOES have his morning coffee by the pool and loves it.

Me, I can't stand the mosquitoes that dive bomb the meatbag that is my body the MOMENT I go outside.

slave quarters

jacuzzi tubs are a pain in the ass becaues you have to clean the jets weekly or they get mold in them even if you never use the tub. My house had two of them when we bought it one in the main ensuite and a second in the second main ensuite. Jesus what a pain. I finally had them replaced with just nice regular tubs and expanded the walk in showers.

Built in stereo speakers. They will be out of date, out of order, incompatible and impossible to remove without major work. And you’ll want to a goose your own way of playing music.

Trash compactors - with recycling, no one uses them anymore

Intercoms - they were trendy and space age in the '60s and '70s, but outmoded and difficult to remove now

Conversation pits - accidents waiting to happen

“Character”. Our house was built in the late 1700s and it’s nonstop renovations.

R18 if they're built in, they're also likely noisy for the neighbors (as we discovered when our neighbor did that - sounded like a DJ booth every time we tried to sleep)

R17- I agree! I would fill the tub a little bit over the jets add some bleach then run the jets, drain half the water and fill with fresh and run the jets again. Whatever water remained in the pipes had some bleach in it, but it stopped from growing mold. Pain in the ass for sure

I'm still trying to get past OP's "outdoor dining table" as though he thinks that furniture comes with the house you buy.

And btw, if you do live in a warm climate, you eat outdoors often. At a dining table. Your own. That you brought with you.

Fancy Landscaping unless you want to spend all weekend doing yard work or have a gardener. Simple is best.

Indoor Jacuzzi always = big roomy laundry basket, and nothing more. A waste of space. And hideous.

Outdoor swimming pools used to be entertaining for teenagers, I don't know if they'd still use them or not. All the ones I know of sat, *totally* unused, after the 2nd year of their existence, never swum in again. A big waste of $$.

Wine cellar, wine vault ... anything related to wine storage beyond a basic wine fridge is stupid.

Not so fast, R27. A nice dark wine cellar CAN be charming.

I understood the "outdoor dining table" as the very Pinterest-y space made for it in the yard/outoor space. Despite it being a table you yourself bring and some tragic plants or Michael's greenery that cost all of twenty bucks, realtors WILL push as some sort of benefit and/or point of attraction for the house.

R26 Swimming pools are seldom used as much as they should be. Maybe 10 percent of pool owners, kids or no kids, use it as much as they should. I've seldom used ours.

R27, yes! A lot of new construction and remodels in L.A. have built-in space for wine. I'd rather have a closet.

A lot of these places also have small pools that look completely useless unless you have kids. They're too small to be real pools but too big to be jacuzzis. They're like oversized foot soakers.

My "outdoor dining table" did, in fact, come with the house, and is polished concrete. It could be moved, but I've had no reason to do so. We use it all the time, all year (Northern CA) sometimes with the propane heater, or the fire pit, and wouldn't think of getting rid of it.

We have a wine area that we're yanking out for a pantry.....if we ever get the workmen here to do it.

There's such a backlog in this area for everything and anything.

[quote] understood the "outdoor dining table" as the very Pinterest-y space made for it in the yard/outoor space. Despite it being a table you yourself bring and some tragic plants or Michael's greenery that cost all of twenty bucks, realtors WILL push as some sort of benefit and/or point of attraction for the house.

Thank you R29

I forget what Aspies DLers can be.

R19 I didn’t buy the house for the trash compactor or conversation pit. I bought it for the harvest gold appliances, wall to wall shag carpeting, central vacuum system and NuTone Food Center

Vessel sinks. Water splashes everywhere. The sink and surrounding areas are always scummy.

Two story foyers. Huge waste of what could be livable space, and a huge expensive waste of heat. And who washes those windows stuck in the wall 25-30 feet up in those McMansions?

Composite Decking - they can't be properly cleaned and they are the perfect mold environment . And power washing fucks up the surface. Don't believe all the hype.

(On the other hand, I used our pool every day.)

Can someone please get R33 clean tampons?

LOL. That was a legit thank you R29/R36

I wasn't calling you an Aspie

I was just realizing that R37 - sorry! My apologies.

Please take my clean tampons as a token of admiration and respect. LOL

Terraces/Balconies in Manhattan and other large cities, especially those on higher floors: usually super windy and noisy, furniture gets covered in soot within hours of wiping it down.

Ideally you would enclose the space and have a sun room with windows you could open on nice days, but most co-ops will not allow that because it ruins the uniform look of the exterior

All good R38. I have done the same over the years.

Dungeons

Marble floors, high ceilings and huge chandeliers. Expensive as hell to heat and cleaning a big chandelier takes forever.

This actually *will* sound very nitpicky (or Aspie!) but we have a house that's around 10 years old and I'm surprised how....NOT updated it was when it was built. We're dealing with electrical wiring (pancake boxes) where an electrician was shocked that anyone anywhere had *INSTALLED* it circa 2008. More expense now to update it.

I guess I just overall expected more efficient layout/design....like, very defined spaces for garbage/recycling would have made sense. The layout we have is just weird in spots. It was intended to cram as much shit in as possible, not to do what made sense. Of course.

I guess to get something truly well designed you'd have to design it yourself.

This thread is fun because it reveals the emptiness of consumerism. No, getting that farmhouse apron sink will not cure your anxiety/depression.

I was rather excited to have a gas fireplace in my new home, now I wish it didn't even have one. When it is turned off a lot of cold air comes in during the winter, when it is turned on it heats the room up so much you can barely stand to be in there.

R45 I have the same problem. It heats up the room so quickly you have to keep turning it on and off. On the other hand a pellet stove in a big space is awesome.

Media rooms take up a large chunk of square footage and aren't used that often. Most people would rather sit in the den off the kitchen and watch TV.

Is it appropriate to put Photoshopped photos in this thread? It should be a crime at what people are doing with Photoshop and home listings these days. Gurl, you know your house doesn't look like that. Show the house as is.

We had a gas fireplace in our condo. We never used it and when we sold it, the inspector said the idiots who installed it never vented it outside.

I live in a rented apt, but want to chime in with cupboards/cabinets above the refrigerator that are pretty much useless exceot, perhaps, to haul out and return holiday stuff? Ditto a very deep cupboard of mine with a similar issue even with a step ladder.

[quote](On the other hand, I used our pool every day.)

Same here, R35.

It’s one of the best features of this current house. In fact, I wouldn’t consider another house without one.

Pedestal sinks in the bathroom with no place to store anything underneath. Or no place to sit your electric toothbrush for recharging.

I find bathtubs in general useless. I’ve ripped them out of several houses and replaced them with a walk-in shower. I can theoretically understand having one in a house, but not one every bathroom.

Where I live I’d only ever consider an indoor pool due to the cold. I can only imagine how much that would cost to maintain.

I hate bathtubs too but you’ll never sell to a family with young kids if you don’t have at least I bath for the children.

R48, if the pictures were publicly available and listed on a site like Redfin or Zillow, I don't see why not. They're fair game.

I'll start. WTF are they trying to hide about that driveway with this ridiculous photoshop job?

Appliances that were installed during a reno, that are almost impossible to remove and replace without an act of Congress after the reno.

My neighbors just built a huge deck. I have yet to see them use it.

I feel very “Darfur Orphan” reading this thread

I would warn anyone that is thinking about installing a gas fireplace that it needs to be direct vented - meaning a vent from the fireplace directly outside - no matter what the salespeople tell you - and it needs to be installed by a professional, correctly. It's not a do-it-yourself job as some claim. You should also have it periodically inspected by the gas or propane supplier.

I happen to be especially sensitive, but I nearly passed out a few times from the fireplace "exhaust fumes" when we first started using the one that wasn't direct vented. I will also mention that those "exhaust" gases accumulate on the higher floors, and cause severe headaches. Sort of a silent but deadly scenario. Be careful.

R55

Probably a cracked and crumbling cement driveway along these lines

I didn't get outdoor furniture with my Atlanta house (although a grill was left behind), but I did get a deck which seemed to be a standard part of every ATL renovation, as well as jacuzzi and a claw foot tub. I never used the latter although realtors allege it was popular and the deck, which caught afternoon sun was utterly useless during the months when you'd want use it. Over time, screened porches became the flipper's new addition to houses although they never seemed to get rid of the decks. I kept mine for resale purposes but otherwise did nothing with it besides periodic staining. The covered front porch was more useful and an actual selling point for me. The jacuzzi was not only annoying to clean, but installed incorrectly and the source of water damage that I had spent a lot of money to otherwise unsuccessfully address. I happily redid the bathroom (how I found out about the jacuzzi and the water damage) with a walk-in shower and when the next owner sold the house, my renovations were advertised as "an updated bath", over 10 years after my renovations. I found it humorous and validation of how mendacious I found Atlanta realtors.

Fireplaces scare me. I've had them all my life, but living alone now, I wouldn't feel safe using one. I'd be afraid of either burning my house down, or poisoning myself. And I just hear that story about a fashion designer Olivier Rousteing burning and disfiguring himself from a gas fireplace explosion.

I'm not fortunate enough to have such a house but I notice in a lot of more expensive houses I look at online they have a lot of "sitting areas" all over the house, such as a couch and/or a chair in an area near the master bedroom. It's all just more space to fill with furniture that hardly ever gets used.

Coincidentally a friend was just laughing last night about when he and his wife toured their current house the wife pointed at the nook in the master bedroom where she "can sit and read" on a cozy winter night. He said they've been there 18 years and she has never sat there.

Why is a shower needed after bathing in a claw foot tub?

^^I was wondering the same thing. I don't shower after soaking in my tub, and I'm certainly never filthy enough to worry about the water. ^^

Moats.

Bath water is full of doodies.

Garden folly that you can't hide in to secretly fuck the gardener.

Agree R63 and R64 -- there's no real use case for those bedroom "sitting areas"

You're either going to be downstairs reading in the living room or den or you're going to be in bed reading for a bit before you go to sleep and you're going to want to actually be in bed with the covers over you so you can shut the book and go right to sleep.

Funny thing is teenagers, who never want to leave their bedrooms, would probably make use of a sitting area as a place to play video games or do homework. But unlikely to find such a thing in a kids room.

Almost all the bathroom trends you see in home reno shows are really useful. Vessel sinks (as was mentioned upthread) are horrible. Water gets everywhere all the time. Dual-vanity sinks are also dumb. How often are you and your spouse brushing your teeth at the same time? Do you shit at the same time too? It's really ok to use the bathroom one at a time.

Huge bathrooms are a waste of space and are hard to heat. Carpet in bathrooms is gross and gets dirty and moldy.

And the shower where the water comes at you from 12 different directions? It's like a torture device.

Love bathing just don't have the patience for a bath anymore. Wouldn't describe a bathtub as a waste of space although it is unused compared to showering.

What a disappointment the claw-foot tub proved to be. Every movie I ever saw presented them as dreamy. They never showed that it’s impossible to bring the temp of that much water up to anything above cool. That was in a rental, though. Maybe somebody is out there, in their own home, soaking their cares away in fabulousness.

I had an (old) place with a claw foot bathtub. On really cold days when you just want a hot bath, the water would be tepid in minutes. Much prefer a walk in shower.

Tennis courts. Grew up with one, we never used it once.

R55, the driveway is jacked. Go to maps.google.com and put in the address to see it. Muriel will not allow me to post the actual link.

STOP TYPING OLD AND DEPRESSED!

[quote] Funny thing is teenagers, who never want to leave their bedrooms, would probably make use of a sitting area as a place to play video games or do homework. But unlikely to find such a thing in a kids room.

I had a sitting room as a teen. I used it ALL the time. In fact, when we sold the house the buyer (who had a teenaged daughter) said the the sitting room was the clincher for purchasing the home.

Not so sure about all these dealbreakers.

Love a pool: have them in Australia and California. So useful.

Also, had an open plan loft in both Perth and Manhattan and both places were tremendous to take advantage of space (21 foot ceilings) and light. Rooms with doors would have chopped up the unusual space (of a former chocolate factory) and rendered it worthless.

So for every architect or owner that says pools....sitting rooms....open floor plans (with huge windows) is a no-go, there is a place and/or buyer who will prove them wrong.

We have a huge clawfoot tub outside on a covered deck. It is connected to a tankless water heater. Overflow and splashes are fine, no problem. I can add hot water and never run out. We have used it every day for almost 40 yrs.

R79

Brilliant!

Do you live in a Cialis commercial R79?

I love the idea of outdoor living spaces, and they look real nice in magazines, but I already hate doing weekly dusting, sweeping, vacuuming, and mopping chores, so how much more with furnishings exposed to the elements?

You never know if posters like R79 are clueless about how much they seem to be humblebragging, if they're just writing fiction, or a little of both.

The only reason for double sinks in a master (sorry - primary) bedroom is due to straight couples. Women have much more stuff, and they want the space.

I would prefer to have two bathrooms, if I were with a guy. And he can take the one in the master (primary) bedroom. As a matter of fact, I don't particularly like having a bathroom right off a bedroom. Just don't like it.

And as the first poster wrote, those taps over the stove for large parts...you still need to carry the full pot over to the sink to dump the water after you're finished cooking.

[quote] And as the first poster wrote, those taps over the stove for large parts...you still need to carry the full pot over to the sink to dump the water after you're finished cooking.

Not if you let it evaporate.

In the 90's there was this McMansion trend to have a gas fireplace in the master bedroom, I guess to suggest all the romantic evenings "Karen" was going to spend with her fat husband. Always hated it, just another gimmick, like the sitting/reading nook in the same room and the massive adjoining bathroom.

R84 drains his pasta! Get Muriel, someone!!!

Renter here. These are my experiences.

High ceilings: I live in a hot climate. My electricity bills are astronomical considering square footage.

Fireplace: rarely used.

Pool: rarely used. The key is the placement. If the pool gets a lot of direct sun and warms up, then it's useful.

Living room with double-height ceilings (friend's house): looks silly and pretentious, IMO. Waste of upstairs space.

R79 here... I see no reason why I would make something up. It is 100 percent true. The whole point of a post is to draw comments. Humble bragging? That's a laugh.

I'm probably going to be killed here, but a dining room. I had a great house with a formal dining room that I used maybe once a year and everyone ended up eating elsewhere. I have a breakfast room which I use daily and completely love but for me, dining rooms are wastes of space and something from a different era.

Agree, R90. A dining room would be a good home office, though.

R20, I would love to know more about your house. The oldest house in my area was built in 1859, so I can’t even imagine living in something built in the 1700’s. My friend bought a house built in the early 1900’s, and when they went to knock a wall down, they discovered that the insulation was horse hair.

You are not crazy R90

Formal dining rooms are being written out of new house plans and the HGTV open concept type renovations do away with them as well in favor of something that is open to the kitchen (and living area) and serves as the day to day eating location after The Island.

lol r36.

Glad to be resident Darfour orphan living on basically no income in a 1900 square foot home in beautiful neighborhood . H bailed. Adult children gone for the most part.

Decluttering always. Dishwasher broken . I wash dishes by hand . Original carpet — dirty. But hey I’m not having dinner parties despite having ginormous d room table and useless dansk place settings for twelve, plus dishes from dead parents.

Coming soon in a short story — the dark side of the bridal registry , circa 1980s

I should have never built that new wing, it’s so unnecessary. Now what will I do with all these extra rooms! 🤡

r90 I think my Millennial ass has spent too much time on DL in my 20s because I love dining rooms. But I try to mimic the Downton Abby rules. You eat dinner in the dining room most nights. I live alone but still, make it a point to eat there 2-3 nights a week. Then I host game nights/dinner with friends. Was super helpful during the pandemic. I love having a nice table setting and just "old fashion" entertainment. Then we retire to the living room.

I grew up in a single-parent home where we ate on trays in front of the TV or at the kitchen counter. the idea of family dinners around a table warms my heart. If I ever found a husband and adopted I'd like to eat dinner in the dining room with no TVs or phone scrolling. Lunch and breakfast can be wherever.

Why don’t you clean up and sell, r95?

R95 totally depressed me.

Gloryholes aren't really used that much. Kind of like a swimming pool. You imagine using it every day. But you rarely do.

We dont use our formal dining room very often but I love it, especially for the holidays when we have a ton of company. I got our vintage Bernhardt dining room set— huge table, eight pretty chairs with green velvet cushions, a clawfoot buffet and serving table, for $700 off craigslist from a lady emptying out her mom’s house. I love decorating that room for Thanksgiving and Christmas. It is super fancy and I love our dining room set so much

cellar or attic S&M playrooms. How sexy is it to indulge your kink with strangers no less in your own home. And what about junior in High School?

I put in a steam shower when I did a remodeled my bathroom into a luxury spa. I use it all the time. It's so relaxing and sexy. There's something about a steam shower that turns me on like nothing else.

I put in expensive kitchen appliances like Wolf and Sub-Zero and they are fine, but I don't think they perform any better than a good mid-level appliance. I feel like I had to have top of the line appliances for my neighborhood, but it's mostly show over performance.

I don't understand that rain shower with the huge, flat shower head dropping water on the top of your head.

Never realized stand alone tubs cool off quickly. Makes sense but didn't think of it.

Also, who wants to drain their hot water tank to fill up that bathtub. How long can you actually sit in there and enjoy it?

Love having a dining room and wouldn't live in a house without one. Also love having fireplaces. We used to have wood and it was nice to have the smell and crackling sound, but it was a pain to clean, order wood, haul in the wood, and worry about leaving it to burn out. The gas fireplaces are a lot easier. And I just got a little contraption that crackles like a fireplace, and incense bricks that smell like burning wood.

HATED having a pool. I live in a place with four seasons so you have to go to the expense of opening and closing it every year for only four months' use. It was a huge pain to have to clean every week and fight the algae every day and fish dead mice/birds/rabbits out of.

I agree about jacuzzi tubs because the jet maintenance is ridiculous, but I love having a basic bathtub. To me the main purpose of having a tub isn't to take baths in lieu of taking showers. Sometimes I just feel a need to soak in the tub for an hour to relax.

Open floor plans are a really bad idea for a family, especially one with young kids. But I live alone and my house is semi-open floor, and I love it. I don't need or want separate rooms everywhere since it's just me, and I find it makes things a lot easier.

What is a good mid tier appliance in your experience? I have to purchase new stove and fridge. Prices are expensive for everything now.

I think the need for a formal dining room is more of an age thing. No one under 60 really cares about them.

Tacky to walk into a quote formal dining room unquote that is really used as a storage space for the family hoarders.

[quote]Tacky to walk into a quote formal dining room unquote that is really used as a storage space for the family hoarders.

I see that you used voice text.

R110 I love our Bosch.

Be ready for a 4 to 6 month wait for your new fridge, though.

I spent $4k on a family hub Samsung refrigerator with a smart screen. What a waste of money. The camera inside of the refrigerator only shows the top shelf, so it’s pretty much worthless. I don’t play music on it, because the sound isn’t loud and clear enough (I use my Bose speaker in the kitchen instead). It’s easier to pull up recipes and make shopping lists on my phone. It’s completely pointless.

Everyone here types Poor.

What is the camera in the fridge for?

To film the Oompa Loompas, Rose.

[quote]I spent $4k on a family hub Samsung refrigerator with a smart screen. What a waste of money. The camera inside of the refrigerator only shows the top shelf, so it’s pretty much worthless. I don’t play music on it, because the sound isn’t loud and clear enough (I use my Bose speaker in the kitchen instead). It’s easier to pull up recipes and make shopping lists on my phone. It’s completely pointless.

I got my Samsung fridge as an open box for about $1500. I can see inside most of the fridge with the interior cameras. It is kinda handy to be able to look inside on my phone app when I'm at the store to see if i actually have something (although it doesn't show the door shelves). But, yea, I wouldn't pay extra for all that crap that it does.

This thread covered almost every feature that was considered cool and aspiration in the 2000s version o Stepford Wives. That said, I'd still love a mansion in Darren, CT.

Can't find the clip when Nicole's character gets a tour of their own home. Complete with the refrigerator that had that cool "new" TV screen thing, bedroom with sitting area, and many more Bush-era McMansion gadgets.

SubZero was the 90s/00s horror story of upscale appliances.

Seems they were not very well made and repairs were very costly.

They were unique when they were introduced as they were cabinet depth and you could get inserts so they'd match your cabinets, plus they had the freezer on the bottom thing.

But then every other manufacturer came out with cabinet depth refrigerators and so Sub Zero lost its raison d'etre.

And a mid-priced GE, Samsung or LG refrigerator also keeps your food cold.

Same can be said for high end stoves--if all you are doing is boiling water and scrambling eggs, you don't need a six-burner stove. Though there's no real downside to having one--you still use it unlike say a giant jacuzzi style tub which never gets used.

If you have pets, even well-trained, clean ones...Carpeting..don't get me started, filth magnets...Open plan...sometimes you want to put your pets in a separate room.

Lofts..I do not want to sleep where food has just been cooked.

Houses without a single bathtub...love having a bath. But not a noisy jacuzzi bath.

Home bars...no, drinking is not the centre of my life.

Home DIY workshop..wtf? I'm gay.

^^The french door refrigerator seems to be the in thing now.

Best home feature I have is the water and ice dispenser on the refrigerator door. I drink a lot of water and, especially WFH, it's a minor but nice convenience.

Built-in wine fridges have become the latest feature in remodeled New York apartments and widely mocked in realtor youtube videos

I could probably be happy with a burner plate and a countertop oven (Breville, Cuisinart, etc.). I'm never using more than one burner. I do like a large refrigerator with freezer space, though.

I have allergies so carpeting will not do.

I live in my mother's basement. Why ask me?

I only buy old houses so these don't usually apply, and never occur to me as good ideas:

Kitchen islands where a good kitchen work table will do.

Sinks and stove tops in kitchen islands.

Double dish washers

Multiple ovens

Enormous refrigerator-freezers

Drawers and cupboards fitted with endless custom dividers and bits for holding pot lids

Under counter appliance hutches

Built-in microwaves

Electrical outlets along the wall above countertops - use a plug-strip, FFS

Complicated corner cupboard lazy susans and other mechanics (just acknowledge those spaces are storage of last resort for the ravioli maker you never use

Warmer drawers

I live in a 2 room threadbare apartment on my yearly fixed income under 20K.

R57 But we were told everybody comes when you have a big deck ;)

R41 = Sondheim

I see a lot of HGTV inspired listings. Lots of talk about spaces for entertaining. Even before the pandemic, were people doing all of that entertaining?

First, those balconies on you condo are not for you to use for morning coffee. They are a refuge to be used in case of a fire that will not allow you to use the front door. This is why so many NYC apartments have those Juliet balconies that are just large enough for two people to stand on. The building would be happiest if you did not use them at all unless there is a fire.

I don't understand R20s comment. Our house was built in 1750 and requires very little maintenance. It was well maintained by the previous owners and we continue to exercise good stewardship.

Open floor plans are ridiculous is a house, but a loft should be a loft.

We use our dining room a lot, but since we have a 1750 house, it is not as if we have an eat-in kitchen. (Our kitchen was originally a separate building in case it caught fire and burned. It was attached to the house in the 1920s with a mudroom/laundry.)

Love, love, love, our claw foot tub, particularly in cold NH winters. If the water is getting tepid quickly, you are doing something wrong.

Anyone complaining about electrical outlets in backsplashes need to have their head examined.

[quote] Electrical outlets along the wall above countertops - use a plug-strip, FFS

I don't see what's wrong with a few electrical outlets above your counters. Why would a plug strip be preferable?

I have four electrical outlets above my counter. And sometimes that's not enough. A plug strip would mean extra cords complicating the countertop.

Neighbors.

Child Execution Room in the Basement

You really can't use it without drawing suspicion and using it twice is probably inadvisable.

I ignore most the silly fads I see on those Home Reno shows. I hate bulky barn doors and those cutsey signboards and heavy, unbracketed shelves on walls.

But I wish I had an kitchen island (with or without electrics, R128). I'm tall and I hate knocking my head on overhead shelving as I clean the splashbacks.

[quote]Electrical outlets along the wall above countertops - use a plug-strip, FFS.

[quote]I don't see what's wrong with a few electrical outlets above your counters. Why would a plug strip be preferable?

I was about to post something similar. Why the fuck would anyone complain about electrical outlets? Most house don't have nearly enough! And how is an electrical strip preferable? That's just a bizarre complaint.

Outlets are invisible to the eye. A shitload of cords are not

How can anyone be "doing something wrong" when the tub water gets cold? You turn on the faucet and that's it. Obviously there is something to the design of claw foot tubs that make them cool quickly not any user error.

R141, I can think of a few things.

1. Your hot water temp is set at nursing home "we don't trust you not to scald yourself" lukewarm. This may be regulated by the state. When we redid our one bath, we had to have the temp approved for inspection and then had the plumber come back in to increase the temp of the hot water. (Note: we also have a rain head for the shower, which we love, but we found the water from a rain head cools faster than a usual shower head. Another reason we increased the temp of the hot water.)

2. One is running a hot bath in a cold room. The problem isn't the tub, it is that the entire room is not heated. Heat the room. A cold room means a cold tub. You wouldn't be surprised that a cold thermos does not keep the contents cold. Why be surprised that at cold tub doesn't retain heat. Get electric baseboard heat and turn it on a half hour before the bath.

3. Fill the bath 2/3rds full with the hottest water out of the faucet and then add cold water as needed to bring it down to 105°. This will heat the tub as well. If you watch old movies, there is usually a thermometer near the bathtub for this reason.

I use a claw foot tub in 20° NH weather. It is just a mater of using your head and not expecting cast iron to act like fiberglass.

You wouldn't be surprised that a cold thermos does not keep the contents*warm*.

Central vacuum systems - yes or no?

R144 so it's a matter of a bunch of extra work. Fine if you don't mind and personally I love the look of claw foot tubs but I don't want to go through all that rigamarole (not that I have a choice, never lived in a place with anything other than fiberglass). To each his own.

^^ meant R142

I'm guessing those claw-foot tubs cool off quickly because they're open on all sides. With the built-in shower / tub combos, the tub is against the walls on three sides.

Even lava gets cold when a stone-cold bitch bathes in it. DLers, I see you.

[quote]Pot-filler faucets -- how often are you filling 10 gallon pots to boil pasta

Every two hours.

Pizza oven, indoor or outdoor. Thousands of dollars spent and you’re no closer to Tuscany.

I lived in a loft with exposed ceiling and ductwork. It had very little sound insulation between floors.

I know a couple (gay men) who could actually use a wine cellar. I'm pretty sure one of them (the richer one) is an alcoholic; the other one drinks, too, but not as much.

Anyway, I was at their house and their garage (enclosed and spacious) was so damn full of wine bottles, it was amazing.

Condo up-fits in older industrial buildings. Hot in summer and cold in winter and all the windows leak.

R152, most of the winos I know with big collections have off-site storage now. Get drunk and want to impress friends… it’s easy to spend a few thousand dollars that way.

The stove in the island that everyone in the late 90s wanted. It just seems dangerous for kids or basically anyone who wants to engage with you while you're cooking.

Yeah, what's with having a kitchen island. I like galley kitchens. They feel cozy to me.

A big, luxurious bathtub is supposedly a selling point - think of all the real estate listings you've seen with a big honking bathtub in the master bathroom. I haven't taken a bath in decades, it's all about showering with me, and I don't think I know anyone who takes a bath very often, everybody showers instead. Like the other poster said, I'd rather have a nice walk-in shower.

I don't know if it's considered furniture, but an outdoor kitchen seems very excessive to me. I know some people just love to entertain, and grilling makes sense to be done outside, but actual cooking?

[quote] Same can be said for high end stoves--if all you are doing is boiling water and scrambling eggs, you don't need a six-burner stove.

To me the real test is the oven. It needs to burn at the temperature it says it does, and it needs to heat evenly. My Whirlpool unfortunately doesn't either.

Tangential question: Do you all clean your showers daily? Weekly? I hit it with the daily spray stuff, but I know it’s not “clean” clean until I actually use cleaners and scrubbers and a squeegee on the weekend.

Some of you need to get out more.

Speaking of which, is there really a reason why people need those wall ovens as opposed to an all in one range?

[quote] First, those balconies on you condo are not for you to use for morning coffee. They are a refuge to be used in case of a fire that will not allow you to use the front door. This is why so many NYC apartments have those Juliet balconies that are just large enough for two people to stand on. The building would be happiest if you did not use them at all unless there is a fire.

What?

Can you share some of what it is you are smoking? Is weed legal in New Hampshire or do you just go down to Massachusetts to get some.

Many postwar Manhattan buildings have fairly large terraces. The buildings are not pretty, but the terraces are more than fire escapes.

[quote] Fill the bath 2/3rds full with the hottest water out of the faucet and then add cold water as needed to bring it down to 105°. This will heat the tub as well. If you watch old movies, there is usually a thermometer near the bathtub for this reason.

This is why the Victorians had servants draw their baths for them. What an incredible hassle.

But here ya are, Blanche, inside the Data Lounge.

[quote]Also, who wants to drain their hot water tank to fill up that bathtub.

We don't have hot water tanks in the Northeast. The furnace heats the water, so there's an endless supply of hot water.

[quote] And the shower where the water comes at you from 12 different directions? It's like a torture device.

It's supposed to be used for body massage purposes. You can even get a happy ending if you stand the right way.

When I see a wine fridge, I always think "alcoholic." Why do you need that much wine in your house? Do you have a dozen guests over three times a week?

[quote]First, those balconies on you condo are not for you to use for morning coffee. They are a refuge to be used in case of a fire that will not allow you to use the front door.

You must not know any smokers

Built-in telephone cupboard with storage for your local phone directory.

Whenever I see a mention of a wine fridge or wine cellar I am reminded of the Columbo episode starring David Suchet and his character's fancy and precious wine in his wine cellar which is a significant part of the murder plot of said episode.

Large lots; mine is 1.24 acres is way too much. Half acre is more my sweet spot. Too late now.

R162, when you reach a certain age, bending, kneeling, or squatting to check on your roast in your all-in-one range becomes a big pain in the ass, let alone cleaning the damn thing. A wall oven at eye level is ideal.

Wine alcoholics feel that their habit is more of a hobby or that they're connoisseurs.

[quote] when you reach a certain age, bending, kneeling, or squatting to check on your roast in your all-in-one range becomes a big pain in the ass, let alone cleaning the damn thing.

My mom loved gardening, and even though I gave her jewelry on her birthdays, she still favored a set of high raised garden beds the most for the same reason you mentioned.

That is true r173. For some reason, many people who guzzle wine don't think they're alcoholics, somehow alcoholics are only people who guzzle hard liquor. Go figure.

Smokers = filthy beasts.

We just sold our house and are building a new one, so this thread is interesting.

The old house had an island, which was great, but there was a cooktop and enormous hood over it, which was an abomination.

As a cook, the one thing that I will be sure of is that the kitchen is not in a traffic corridor but a dead-end space of its own, even if it is large and open to the living room (which I like). Large sinks are very useful for dumping dishes.

New houses are often too large: a nice bedroom is a small bedroom. My only contribution to this thread is to avoid flimsy sheeetrock walls, which cheapen the house.

I'd rather smokers go outside than do it inside.

The prep kitchen trend confuses me. It seems complicated to go to the back kitchen for some things and front kitchen for others?

I totally agree with you, R90. I'd rather have a kitchen with a place to sit - counter stools, breakfast nook, or a table in the center.

The only balcony is off the master bedroom.

For those of you with coffee nooks or coffee stations (kitchen), how do you like it? I figure even if you don't use it for an espresso maker, etc., you could use it for something else.

Any kind of basement “bonus” room. It’s a basement; no one wants to spend time there. Doesn’t matter if it’s a walk-out basement or not. If you have to have the laundry down there, so be it. But otherwise, a basement is for storage only.

R107, please provide the name of your heating source you mentioned. And where may I buy the incense? Thank you!

r183 lots of people have a home office or a tv room in the basement.

I am digging the trend of houses with elevators now. No, I'm not a fat whore, but those elevators are so convenient for transporting laundry and suitcases.

R184, here is the wood-scented incense. It really does work to burn it at the same tie you are having a fire and just put it nearby.

Bi-fold doors. They are flimsy and cheap looking. And most of the time, they aren’t shut, but opened an inch or so.

[quote] Any kind of basement “bonus” room. It’s a basement; no one wants to spend time there. Doesn’t matter if it’s a walk-out basement or not. If you have to have the laundry down there, so be it. But otherwise, a basement is for storage only.

Why not make use of your basement space? I don't understand not enjoying it if you want. (Man cave, home office, whatever.)

I would never want an elevator in a private home. With my luck, the damn thing would break down and I'd get trapped.

One problem with a free-standing clawfoot tub is that it's an oval shape that won't fit snugly into the corner of the room. Hence, there's a small gap between tub and walls into which a cat with a grudge can squeeze himself to punish you by shitting on the floor and the humans can't reach back there to clean it up, and the tub is too heavy to move. If the bathroom is big enough to have the tub standing out in the middle, fine -- but ours wasn't.

That's...specific R191

Basements are the best places for the bonus rooms, especially if you have kids. I can see how it might seem superfluous but it can be a great space. If it hasn't already been converted, I'd agree, it's a lot of money.

Have any of you seen the bed in the master staged in the center of the floor? You can actually walk completely around the bed.

R190 how many times HAVE you seen Lady In A Cage?

It's the wet bar that tortures so many friends. So many look like stages for puppeteers. A rolling tea cart of booze would also make good use of elevators.

An amazing feature that I loved in a house I couldn't afford was a small kitchenette off the master bedroom. It had a fridge, a coffee maker and a counter. No bigger than a walk in closet. How amazing would that be in the mornings.

We have an elevator in our beach condo and I actually love it. I put all of the erotic art in there.

I would be afraid to have a finished basement…dont basements commonly flood?

[quote]An amazing feature that I loved in a house I couldn't afford was a small kitchenette off the master bedroom. It had a fridge, a coffee maker and a counter. No bigger than a walk in closet. How amazing would that be in the mornings.

That sounds very fat.

[quote] An amazing feature that I loved in a house I couldn't afford was a small kitchenette off the master bedroom. It had a fridge, a coffee maker and a counter. No bigger than a walk in closet. How amazing would that be in the mornings.

Unless you have housekeeping help, that's just a second area to clean up (bus), as you would a kitchen. It's not like someone else is going to clean out the coffee pot, stock the fridge, etc. Might as well walk a few steps to the kitchen.

How lazy and messy are some of you that you can't keep a small kitchenette reasonably clean?

^ We had a small kitchenette off our upstairs master bedroom (kitchen was downstairs) and I loved having it. So convenient for making tea or coffee first thing in the morning and then snuggling back into bed with a hot drink.

^ I meant to say in our last house

[quote]So convenient for making tea or coffee first thing in the morning and then snuggling back into bed with a hot drink.

Did you cradle the cup with both hands?

R192, I did say that the issue I described at R191 was "one problem". But the fact is that all cats develop and hold grudges, and it's common for them to express their dissatisfaction by relieving themselves somewhere other than their litterboxes. So I'll bet I'm not the only person who's had this particular problem with a clawfoot tub in a small bathroom.

R197 are you that addicted to coffee that you can't even function enough to walk the extra steps to an actual kitchen?

Jesus fucking Christ.

Massively open floor plans in a house are stupid, but a portion that's open isn't bad.

This is an interesting thread - even more interesting when we're talking about tradeoffs. Like instead of a dining room, you'd rather have a bigger kitchen and/or more space in the living room. If you're rich enough to have a dining room AND a big kitchen the the pointless feature of the dining room (in some people's opinion) doesn't really matter.

I have a small kitchenette off my bedroom - it's called apartment living. My prior studio apartment, on a brownstone parlor floor, had the kitchen under the loft bed.

"An amazing feature that I loved in a house I couldn't afford was a small kitchenette off the master bedroom. It had a fridge, a coffee maker and a counter. No bigger than a walk in closet. How amazing would that be in the mornings. "

Yeah, whenever I'm in a decent hotel room I think I'd love to have that recreated in my home - if I had a big enough home (I have a 1000 sq foot 2 br bungalow). Basically a hotel room king or queen bed, a small space off to the side for a chair; small kitchenette (small fridge, counter), and an en suite bathroom.

[quote] You wouldn't be surprised that a cold thermos does not keep the contents*warm*.

Wow. R143 a cold thermos would keep contents warm because the way a thermos maintains heat is because of insulation, the heat of the actual thermos has a negligible effect on the contents.

I think a kitchenette makes sense if that part of the house is used as a sublet.

r128, an over-the-range microwave is great, saves ~3-5 square feet of counter space, and only costs about a hundred bucks more than a comparable countertop model.

Having two dishwashers means you never really have to unload it. You take clean dishes from one, put dirty dishes into the other, anddon't have to unload & put away the rest until the second (dirty-dish) one is full & they switch roles.

Jets on a tub are hit or miss, but a tub with its own built-in water heater (to KEEP it hot) is awesome.

Personally, I'd love to see a house with full-size indoor jacuzzi... and storage tank in a nearby closet, the basement, or outside big enough to hold the water. Fill the jacuzzi with brominated water from the storage tank, passing it through an inline heater to get it up to ~100F by the time it's in the jacuzzi), use it, then pump it back into the tank for storage when done (to avoid wasting hundreds of gallons of water or humidifying the house & making it smell like an indoor swimming pool). Filter the water on its way back into the tank. Once a week, automatically pump it back into the jacuzzi without heating & run it for a few minutes to keep the jets from stagnating before draining it back into the tank.

Zoned air conditioning is another nice feature. When I bought a new central A/C unit, I remodeled the ductwork so every bedroom's duct now splits into two... one that's 4 or 6 inch, one that's 6, 8, or 10 inch, with automatic dampers. I also split the main trunk heading downstairs in two (one small, one large, both with automatic dampers before merging back together), then put temp. sensors around the house & made my own controller with a RasPi. The bedrooms don't *quite* allow perfect individual temperature control, but if someone in one bedroom wants it to be 66F while someone in the other wants 72F & nobody is downstairs, the system will throw both dampers open in the 'cold' room, only the small one in the 'warm' room, and one or both to downstairs depending on the coil temp & blower speed (to keep the static pressure within spec). On many nights, it can save power by closing both downstairs dampers, throttling the compressor down to low stage, and slowing down the blower so "100%" goes to cooling bedrooms without excessive backpressure. Yeah, you'd never know I do HVAC design.

I also upgraded my condenser fan to 2-speed so I can safely run it on nights when it's 50-60F outside (not quite cold enough to open windows & keep dew point < 40F, but cold enough to freeze the coil if I ran it normally, because the refrigerant would get TOO cooled-off outside). In a pinch (cold, rainy week), I can simultaneously run the A/C and the heating coil for reheat to dehumidify, but that's something I only need to do a few hours per year. I live in Florida, and my system can achieve 24-26%RH if I really WANT it to (I normally shoot for 31-34% to avoid shocking my kitties). Most residential systems can't even achieve < 40% RH @ 72F, because their coils don't get cold enough (google: psychrometric dew point). The guy who actually installed my new unit was *blown away* when he saw what I did, because I have the kind of capabilities normally seen only in skyscrapers :-)

R213 - I sometimes open or close a window.

One HVAC warning: exposed spiral ductwork look cool, but there's a reason you almost never see it used in residences: unless you live in a desert, spiral ductwork needs FLAWLESS insulation AND reheat to avoid "sweating". Reheat is almost UNHEARD of in home systems (Lennox makes the only residential reheat system I know of).

Without reheat, the dew point in your house will (almost) never be lower than the temp. of the air blowing into the ductwork. The grilles rapidly chill to that temperature, and room humidity condenses onto them. Eventually, the ducts themselves get cold & sweat (even WITH flawless insulation).

You can use a whole-house dehumidifier... but really, it's not a loophole. A "dehumidifier" is just an air conditioner that uses its own waste heat to warm the air after cooling it for dehumidification. In commercial buildings, heat pipes are sometimes used for "free" energy recovery. Heat from incoming return air is transferred to supercold supply air to simultaneously warm supply air and pre-cool return air. The downside is... staggeringly expensive installation cost.

Cheaper systems use waste heat from the condenser unit... higher long-term power cost, but vastly lower up-front expense.

Anyway, that's why houses almost never have exposed spiral ductwork, and why most homes never get below 50% humidity... without reheat, the ducts will sweat. Normal ducts sweat a tiny bit, too, but you don't really SEE it, and normal residential A/C doesn't superchill the air enough for it to be a serious problem.

you can add on a shower to a clawfoot tub.

R216 - In the 70s both sets of my grandparents had NYC apartments with that type of tub / shower set-up.

I do not like the British tubs with that hose. That's the one where you have to sit down in the tub to use the shower hose to wash your hair. There is no separate shower. This is so fucking stupid. I hate them.

$839 for a fucking shower attachment for a bathtub? Jesus Christ.

R160 I squeegee the shower tile and glass and then wipe it down with the "stepping out towel" every day. That way it never gets dirty.....no hard water deposits or soap scum buildup to deal with ever. It only takes an extra couple of minutes while I'm drip drying after showering. I developed this discipline when I had a marble and glass shower.

Isn't two separate kitchens (or one prep, one main) a Jewish thing, to keep dishes kosher?

Spiral staircases are fucking ugly!

OMG [Random HGTV trend] is ugly and actually useless, no one in our house uses it! I am SOO much better than them, and definitely not watch that trashy [Random HGTV show]

I'm a weirdo who likes all kinds of opposite extremes. My last place was in an old 1920s highrise, with tons of dark wood, elaborate molding, bathrooms with old deco tile work and pedestal sinks, antique furniture, heavy crystal chandeliers, lots of compartmentalized rooms. I LOVED it. But now I'm in a loft apartment...the authentic kind where an old commercial building is converted. It's one giant space with 14' ceilings, concrete floors and ceilings, exposed pipes and duct work, old giant sash windows with the chains and weighted pulleys, etc. Total opposite of my last place but I LOVE it. It has things I would probably never buy unless they were already there, like the $10K subzero fridge, the 6 burner commercial gas range, Miele laundry equipment, etc. But since it's there, I certainly am not complaining.

R170

[quote] Whenever I see a mention of a wine fridge or wine cellar I am reminded of the Columbo episode starring David Suchet and his character's fancy and precious wine in his wine cellar which is a significant part of the murder plot of said episode.

Not David Suchet. That episode ("Any Old Port In A Storm" ) starred Donald Pleasence.

r255. Oh, dear. You are right. What an embarrassing mix-up. I apologize. Thank you for the correction.

R226 I think you meant R225 not R255 which doesn't exist yet :)

For everyone who is so concerned about water temperature in the tub. Urine is warm. Think people, think!

R224 is such a WEIRDO!! He likes luxury condos in DIFFERENT STYLES!!!!

Gurl, bye.

I didn't care much about outdoor living spaces until COVID hit, but now everyone I know entertains outside and the set-ups are getting fancier--heated chairs, lighting, outdoor heating and fans, covered areas for both rain and sun.

Yes, I'm in California, but the cooler part. But we're all just bundling up when it's cold.

For those who like a small kitchen in or adjacent their bedroom or a remote space (like a roof terrace atop the house), I like these "kitchen in a cupboard" units with a sink, refrigerator, dishwasher, microwave, and usually a stove top all small-scaled. They are not cheap exactly, but the better ones are attractive externally and internally and very well made.

I first saw them first hand in a couple AirBnBs where they are great for keeping a few things cool, for heating up a readymade meal, making coffee, best for simple things, obviously, and not a good substitute for a proper kitchen and cooking at home day in and day out. I've looked into them as well looking for a tiny apartment as a second place in another city - perfect for a place where you eat out nearly all of the time but want to be able to enjoy readymade food at home, to have coffee and cold milk and clean plates and a few spices...

[quote] Any kind of basement “bonus” room. It’s a basement; no one wants to spend time there. Doesn’t matter if it’s a walk-out basement or not. If you have to have the laundry down there, so be it. But otherwise, a basement is for storage only.

Were you ever a teenager?

[quote] So many look like stages for puppeteers.

That made me laugh. Perfect description R196

[quote] Large sinks are very useful for dumping dishes.

This is off topic, but I hate it when people do that. It's a strong pet peeve of mine. Dumping dishes in the sink doesn't help me at all. First thing I have to do in order to do the dishes is getting them all out of the sink. Might be just me. But I prefer the dishes to be dumped next to the sink.

Slightly more related to this thread: I prefer large sinks over small ones, too. But I cannot warm up to "farm house" style sinks if I don't actually live in a farm house. And don't get me started on barn doors. I've even seen barn doors on TV cabinets.

I always thought that a front porch would be a very useless feature. Always thought, who uses a front porch when one has a perfect back yard. Well, I live in a craftsman house now with a more or less sizable yard. And yet my favorite outdoor spot is the front porch in the morning when I sip my first coffee. I don't know what it is, the better view or the people-watching aspect in the early morning when the world wakes up... but I love those thirty minutes every morning. (We still use the back yard when we have people over)

R235, you might find it interesting that front porches were intentionally social engineered out of existence.

Prior to WWII, the front porch was the center of much suburban social life. Mothers could sit on the front porch and do handwork, watch the children play, and socialize with neighbors. Men could socialize with friends. There were still a lot of delivered foods such as milk, fish, and even potato chips. Shopping often took place on the front porch. Backyards were usually working areas where the laundry was done, vegetables were grown, chickens were raised, and the outhouse was located (after WWII a shocking number of US homes still did not have an indoor toilet.)

After WWII there was a severe recession. The government came up with many schemes to address the issue. One was to require large setbacks on new homes to make the social aspect of the front porch impossible. This moved social interaction to the backyard which required more consumer purchases such as grills, swing sets, patio furniture, etc.

Time for Wapner, R234

Hot teenage neighbor.

[quote] I've looked into them as well looking for a tiny apartment as a second place in another city

R231, are you a bigamist with a secret second life somewhere?

R89 = Hugh Jackman

I have no opinion one way or another on large farmhouse sinks though I tend to avoid anything that is trendy, but when we remodeled our kitchen we changed a standard split bowl kitchen sink to a large single bowl sink (stainless steel, not farmhouse/enamel). Maybe people think that farmhouse sinks are the only large sinks they can get?

I do a lot of cooking and one large bowl makes it easier to clean large pots, roasting pans, and such things as large china platters and bowls.

We installed a 33" wide, 10" deep, under-mount single bowl. Loved it. I'm tall, so the 10" deep didn't bother me.

A built-in aquarium.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to feed a porpoise?

Probably mentioned elsewhere in this thread but those very cool looking modern bathroom sinks that are so shallow that the only way you don;t splash water all over yourself is to run the faucet at a trickle.

People who own these sinks find themselves constantly having to warn guests

I love farmhouse sinks, but basically for the reasons R241 said. The fact that the face of the sink is washable is very practical as well. The point of anything that is actually farmhouse as apposed to "Farmhouse®" is that it is practical. Farm life is not about appearances. I feel the same way about barn doors. If a sliding door is the best solution and a pocket door is too expensive, then by all means have a barn door type sliding door. To have one where no door is necessary at all is stupid.

[quote] I would be afraid to have a finished basement…dont basements commonly flood?

OMFG you are all the nelliest shriekingest prisses that ever LIVED.

I grew up in a home that had a finished basement and never once flooded or even got damp.

soaking tubs

There's also such a thing as basement waterproofing.

[quote] OMFG you are all the nelliest shriekingest prisses that ever LIVED.

These sorts of posts continually spark joy

Because there is no way to actually say that sentence out loud without sounding like (you got it) the nelliest shriekingest priss that ever LIVED! (love the all caps emphasis too.

PS: While most basements do not flood, there were a number of people who were killed in basement apartments that flooded during the recent hurricane in the Northeast. That may have been what your co-prisspot was reacting too.

Open plan. Who doesn’t enjoy smelling bacon and eggs and burnt toast from the other end of the house and hearing junior practising the clarinet when watching TV.

The thing about open plans is that it is such a horrible idea it doesn't ever seem like a "great feature when buying a house." No way would I consider ever living in one. I like rooms.

Open plans are not terrible in a large house where there's also a dining room, den or living room or some other non-bedroom room(s) on the main level.

They become awful when it's an older house and the entire ground floor is one big open space and there's nowhere to hide except for the bedrooms.

^^older, smaller house

I agree, R251. Open floorplans only make sense in larger spaces. I've seen listings for smaller homes with open floorplans where the living room space and kitchen are so close together the only place to put a couch is a couple of feet in front of the kitchen counter. I can't imagine trying to watch tv, read, or study while someone is making noise cooking or cleaning in the kitchen.

I don't mind an open floor plan, but not just a vast sweep of space with no sense of progression or articulation to suggest purpose. And not a house built around a kitchen so that the the thing you see on entering the space is the kitchen, the thing you see from the sitting area is the refrigerator. An open plan kitchen makes sense attached to certain types of spaces, within certain locations in a house, and to a certain standard of finish. A big expensive house with a kitchen as its heart and focal point falls short when the appliances and finishes are what you would find the the better end of a Home Depot or a B&Q vignette, or if the sight lines within the larger space don't make sense, or if the kitchen is positioned poorly. A kitchen is generally an important space and deserves an important position, but "heart of the home" doesn't necessary mean dead center, or stovetop extractor on axis with front door.

They make sense for some people and not for others, but for me the bigger question is does it make sense for the space. I wouldn't set out to find an open plan kitchen, but I've seen spaces that I liked that were just that; with my leanings I don't set out looking for them, but don't rule them out either.

I used to be a house guest in an immense Belle Époque hôtel particulier on Avenue Foch that had an art nouveau iron elevator built into the grand staircase, just like in an apartment building. Except it was private mansion, and redecorated in hippy lux during the the 1970s, BIBA style.

I grew up with old mullioned French doors in our kitchen/breakfast room/pantry -they increased light while they stopped drafts.

Recreating that look as an adult, I'd forgotten how filthy the lower window panes get when you have dogs and cats

If I did it again, I'd compromise with dutch doors.

I have two that kind of go together. A Jen-Air range (will the grill) and an open floor plan. Cook one meal and you need a hazmat team to come in and clean up the entire house, and even then, your house will stink for weeks. Grills belong outside - and also with an open floor plan, anyone who comes in the front door can see everything - so you constantly have to keep everything picked up (no dishes in the sink). It looks great if you don't have to live in it.

Those indirect light fixtures that make your home look like some spaceship. Especially when you change it to some cold blue or spooky red color. The novelty wears off quick and it makes you look like a sexless nerd when you show it off to your friends.

Avoid flat bottomed bath sinks, I installed a new sink & counter top in my main bath and while it looks 100 times better than the old sink and counter top did, they don't drain right and the sink is always dirty unless you dry it out with a towel. Even though it is only a couple of years old I am thinking about replacing it again.

R259, I learned that lesson with faux-marble clamshell basins in the 90s.

I condole you.

I, too, suffer from flat bottom bath sink syndrome. It is perhaps the least of my problems.

Neighbors remodeled their bathroom to match the ones at their favorite Peninsula Hotel. Heated floors. Giant soaking tub. Huge walk-in shower with multiple giant shower heads and sprays. It turned out beautifully.

What they didn't address was everything behind the walls. Their hot water tank is inadequate to fill the tub or take anything but a short shower with all those nozzles going. Even if they had a bigger hot water tank, their house lacks the type of water pressure required to adequately supply those multiple shower heads running at the same time. And when the heated floors and whirlpool are on at the same time, fuses blow.

And how practical are those gorgeous free-standing bath tubs, invariably placed in from of a massive window? No towel bars in sight and no place to put your soap, watch, phone or anything else you want handy.

Electric appliances

That is hilarious R262, though not surprising.

R263 If I had a fly swatter handy. I would so slap you silly.

I would be fine with that if you would let me eat any dead flies you may have swatted.

[quote]Avoid flat bottomed bath sinks

I avoid flat bottoms in all aspects of life. They're never a good idea.

[quote] Those indirect light fixtures that make your home look like some spaceship. Especially when you change it to some cold blue or spooky red color. The novelty wears off quick and it makes you look like a sexless nerd when you show it off to your friends.

I thought WTF when I first saw this magenta, etc., lighting. Then I thought: you could actually do a normal, warm, yellowish color. This would help through the winter blues, etc. I have incandescent bulbs, still. I like the warmth and it cheers me up.

[r216]

On the subject of aquariums, why do people who can afford the expense and effort of huge saltwater setups put them in hallways or other places away from comfortable seating where one can relax and enjoy their fish?

[quote]And how practical are those gorgeous free-standing bath tubs, invariably placed in from of a massive window?

Your neighbors can jerk off while they watch you bathe.

Open floorplan houses are really for single people or childless couples. They're really annoying if kids are in the house because there is no privacy.

Open floor plans can be for parents. Helicopter parents who need to control every moment of their children's lives. Telling them off whenever they are being rowdy and noisy turning their children into nervous wrecks with anxiety issues.

How do we feel about built-in ironing boards and Murphy beds?

Murphy beds can be useful, obviously, but I'm not sure it's a great selling point. If it's exactly the style and in the exact place that a buyer wants, and they want a murphy bed to begin with - then sure.

Built in ironing boards - I really wouldn't care about that, but someone might.

Actually R272, they seem to be preferred by young parents so that "I can be preparing dinner and keep my eye on the kids while they aer playing in the other room.

This is indeed useful when the children in question are toddlers, but as soon as they get a littler older they do not want or need to be under Mon's watchful eye--they can turn on light switches and video games themselves and they're playing with friends, not with Mom--and the open floor plan becomes the nightmare you've noted.

Like someone else said, key to an open floor plan is that there's non-open rooms other than bedrooms in addition to the open part of the house. Then it can work.

Built-in clothes drying racks. Usually used by insufferable pretentious types who think the standard folding drying racks that have been around forever are just too, too common.

Oh those are nice, r278. I’ve never seen those.

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with built-ins if it's something you're going to use on a regular basis. Why the hell not.

Agreed R279, and they are nicer than those common as muck fold-up aluminum abortions.

Who ever sees your laundry room?

I see my laundry room, and that's what matters.

I live alone in a 5000 sq ft house with master down and semi open floor plan. The formal sitting room and dining room are furnished but never used. The large master bath is a waste of space and the jacuzzi tub makes a great laundry hamper. I do use the pot filler over my cooktop daily. I fill the pitcher there that I put in my coffee maker because my kitchen facet has low water pressure.

R275, I love built-in ironing boards, so much easier than having to set up a big one in the middle of a room and then put it away again, especially for the infrequent ironing that I do.

But I will say that, if we'd had a built-in one when I was a kid, I might never have developed my extensive knowledge of, and great love for, old movies. My mother watched those on our black and white TV in the living room while ironing pretty much daily and I watched with her. We only had one TV and it wasn't portable, so we couldn't have watched it during ironing if the board had been built into a cupboard in the hall or kitchen, etc. My movie hated ironing but I loved the old movies (and still do)!

[quote][R224] is such a WEIRDO!! He likes luxury condos in DIFFERENT STYLES!!!!

What a [bold]CUNT[/bold] you are R228. Both properties described were very old and not high end luxury. Previous owners had added some pricey features that were nice that I would never have done myself. Apparently you missed that point. And yes, it is a bit weird to like such disparate styles. Most people get stuck in a rut and are obsessed with one particular style. I don't follow trends and let myself like whatever the fuck I like.

You can take your cunty nasty trolling and fuck right off R228. Bye Cuntessa!

Apologies R228! That was directed at R229. Please accept my apology, R228!

Oh and R228....that is nasty!

R55, here's the driveway

Bun warmers

If I lived alone in a 5000 square foot house like R284, I would

a) probably only use a few of the rooms

b) invite frequent house guests

c) spend good portions of my day trying to track down my keys and phone.

It's not bad at all 289

The sidewalk is cracked, which the homeowner has to repair, but the rest of the driveway and the apron look perfectly respectable.

Of course R285 should have said that it was "my mother" who hated ironing. I knew I should have taken my nap before posting on DL instead of afterward .....

[quote][R89] = Hugh Jackman

I was thinking R78 was him, right here on DL!

Our dorm had a built-in ironing board which I hated. My stepmother put the ironing board in front of the TV and pressed everything while watching CBS sitcoms. She taught me, and I am now very particular about ironing collars just so. The built-in board was too awkward.

A dungeon.

The driveway access point looks too narrow and it's right by the neighbor's brick wall. It should be more to the left by a couple feet. And the sidewalk square is sunken.

In the 60s, my aunt and uncle bought a 2-story home with an intercom system. They thought that would be great for getting the kids ready for school or down to dinner without having to shout. It never worked. It was a thing back then. I can't recall ever seeing one of those systems working. Now we all have cell phones, so why bother.

R284, are you sure you have low water pressure and not just calcium built up in the aerator?

In the 1980s, there was an epidemic of townhomes & apartments with second-floor master bedrooms that opened up like a balcony to the "great room" below... often, without a door... just stairs that led directly to the door-free master bedroom. Who the FUCK thought that was tolerable or acceptable, let alone a good idea.

I'm NOT talking about 1b/1.5b loft-like units... the townhomes flanking mine are 3b/2.5b, with the master bedroom on the second floor as described. One neighbor eventually installed interior windows. The other "ceilinged over" the living room, added an egress-access skylight, and turned the area above into a home office & sitting area. They did have proper bedroom doors, but said the open design made the house completely intolerable with kids. But I've seen plenty of units from the era that are as-described... second-floor loft-bedroom with no actual door, just winding stairs.

r301 a friend of mine lived in a loft apartment like you described in the W. Village. An open bedroom on the second-floor landing. He lived alone so it was tolerable but I could not imagine more than one person living in such a place.

I live in a loft so don't have any doors except the bathroom, but I think in a townhouse arrangement it would annoy me.

Earrings stands in the bathroom

Walk-in closets for caftans

What about pearl storage cabinets R304? There is so much pearl clutching around here that they must get ground to dust in no time, so a large inventory of pearls must be maintained at all times.

Heat pumps - yea or nay?

Clotheslines - a convenient way to dry your clothes or unbelievably tacky and trashy?

Heat Pumps -- yea. And for those of you contemplating a gut renovation, spray foam insulation is worth every penny. Finally, solar panels on the roof can heat your hot water.

r306, it depends where you live.

In Florida approximately north of a line connecting Sarasota to Fort Pierce? Absolutely. Nowhere in Florida actually gets cold enough to justify a real, honest-to-god FURNACE, but the area north of approximately SR-70 (and especially north of I-4) usually gets colder for longer than 8k-10k heat strips alone are really appropriate to handle.

South of SR-70? A heatpump isn't really BAD, but you probably won't use its heating capabilities often enough to feel like the higher cost is justified. It's more energy-efficient than heat strips... but the payback horizon somewhere like Fort Lauderdale or Naples is so far in the future, your AC unit will probably crap out and have to be replaced before you've actually saved enough energy to even PRETEND you've broken even on the cost difference.

I live in Fort Lauderdale. I do commercial HVAC design. *I* didn't bother with a heat pump, because I feel like I got more value for the money from a variable-speed fan coil and a dual-stage condenser unit than I'd have EVER gotten from a heat pump. Keep in mind also that if you want dual-stage, your heat pump options pretty much narrow down to one single choice per vendor-family, and you'll pay DEARLY for it.

IMHO, the single best upgrade you can do if you're in South Florida is a variable-speed air handler/fan coil. It'll enable you to have MUCH better humidity control when paired with an advanced controller (note: Nest and Ecobee aren't necessarily going to wring maximum performance from it, especially if it's a "Carrier" brand.

Florida north of Ocala/Daytona: heat pump likely to make you happier than dual-stage.

Florida south of Sarasota/Fort Pierce: dual stage likely to make you happier than heat pump

Florida BETWEEN the two lines above: it depends on your lifestyle and preferences. If you open the windows when it's 70 degrees outside and rarely use AC in the winter, you'll probably get more value from a heat pump. If you run your A/C 12 months/year, and view 50% indoor humidity as intolerably high, get the dual-stage.

If you're rich and honestly don't care about price, get a dual-stage heat pump... but don't kid yourself. If you're in Florida south of approximately I-4, you aren't likely to recoup even a fraction of the higher purchase price from lower electric bills. Somewhere like Naples or Fort Lauderdale, you will LITERALLY never save enough electricity to even be able to PRETEND you've come close to breaking even, because modern central AC units crap out and die from coil rot after 6-8 years. The days of a new central A/C unit lasting 20+ years died when nature nazis banned CFCs. Today's refrigerants are corrosive (older refrigerants weren't), so nowadays, your coil will literally eat itself from the inside out... and they're at MUCH higher pressures, so a slow leak you could have mostly ignored 25 years ago and just added a few pounds of freon every 2-3 years will NOW depressurize your system's refrigerant loop to the point of not cooling at all within a matter of DAYS.

North of Florida, the cost-value equation for heat pump basically comes down to, "does it get cold enough, long enough, to need a real honest-to-god FURNACE here?" If yes, skip the heat pump, and just combine a furnace with normal central AC. If no, get the heat pump.

Crap R309! SoCA here, in a highrise condo with a water source heat pump on a closed loop system (building has a cooling tower on the roof). I have the original equipment (ClimateMaster) from the mid 90's in my unit and was thinking about pre-emptively replacing it before it craps out. But was hoping the new one would last 20+ years again. It recently got stuck in heat pump mode despite being in cool mode because the reversing valve was stuck in the default heat mode position. Turns out it was just a problem with the thermostat and swapping that out solved the problem for now. Cost to replace the components in my unit were estimated at $7K for a ClimateMaster Tranquility 16 compact unit.

I also have a loft apartment that has the traditional compressor unit on the roof with the condenser/fan coil/air handler in the crawl space inside my unit. What's a good brand if all that needs to be replaced? It's about 15 years old.

By "water source", do you mean "it uses the waste heat to make hot water?" Or do you mean, "it's a GEOTHERMAL system that uses groundwater as its heat sink?"

If it's augmenting your water heater, I have more bad news. For all intents and purposes, water heat-exchange systems don't exist anymore. Older refrigerants had a bigger delta-t, and threw off a LOT of heat into an adjacent water loop. R410a's delta-t is lower, to the point where it's really not worth bothering anymore. Literally your ONLY hope (with 410a) of EVER breaking even on the extra cost would be if you got extraordinarily lucky and had NO problems WHATSOEVER for at least 10-12 years... which, honestly, is an unrealistic expectation, because modern central AC units are garbage, and practically designed to suffer unit-killing breakdowns before their 12th birthday. Literally, the designers sit down and do modeling to figure out how thin they can make the coil walls without having more than 1% fail before year 5, and 5% before year 10... and not one micron more.

No it's not geothermal. It's a heat pump connected to a closed loop (water). It has nothing to do with the water heater. Heat is exhausted into the loop where the water goes to the cooling tower on the roof and gets exhausted into the atmosphere. Incoming water is room temp or slightly cooler. The equipment in my unit is a heat pump (compressor, condenser, fan coil, air handler, all that..) This is a standard setup in buildings here.

^^ that's when it's in cool mode. In heat mode, it's the reverse of that.

Red quarry tile on the kitchen floor.

Just don't do it. Or you'll find out why.

I'm personally partial to Carrier, because they're the easiest for unauthorized repairmen to fix cheaply and keep going long after Carrier itself has declared them to be End of Life. This does NOT apply to package units, though... only normal split systems with outside condenser + indoor air handler/fan coil.

Lenox has the most advanced designs... but the moment it needs repair after the warranty expires, the unit might as well be dead. Pretty much EVERYTHING in a Lenox system is proprietary, and Lenox tightly controls the availability of replacement parts. When they say the unit is EOL, they mean it. There ARE NO second sources for anything expensive likely to fail on a Lenox unit.

In contrast, Carrier units are kind of like PCs... they have proprietary parts, but most of them have generic alternatives that a good repairman can hunt down. Carrier units are probably the ones most likely to let you get away with having someone perform desperate band-aid repair jobs on when it's too old to justify the cost of fixing "properly", but you just want to cheaply MAKE IT WORK (even if it's at reduced performance or efficiency) for a few more months. With Lenox, you fix it perfectly, or you don't fix it at all.

Real marble in the shower or on the bathroom floor, unless you are ok with it being a "honed" (not polished) finish. If you've never had it, you will find out why.

Thanks R315. My loft place has Carrier! The highrise place has the ClimateMaster I described. Apparently these original units can last 25-30 years and of the 180+ units in the building only a few have been replaced despite being about 25 years old now.

r312, ah, ok. I'll admit that I'm not really up on residential options for that type. In an office building, you'd tend to pair it with a few large chillers.

Condos have slightly different needs, because people who are happy at 78F would be furious if they had to share electricity costs with people who want 70F, and people who want 70F would regard 78F as uninhabitable. Office buildings tend to settle around something like 75F, with zoning to give individual offices a degree or two of latitude to play with. The catch with zoning is that you can only shift around so much cooling capacity before you have to alter the behavior of the entire system in ways that aren't necessarily quick to make or cheap, because you also have to worry about things like the fresh air exchange rate, dew point, reheat, and (of course) static pressure (if you close off to many dampers without slowing down the fan, the fan motor will burn itself out... slowing down the fan reduces the coil temperature unless the compressor is dual/multi-stage, which changes your reheat requirements. If you don't have enough reheat, you end up with condensation on the register grilles (and possibly the ducts).

Oh... I forgot to mention... most new central AC units have switched from copper coils to aluminum coils. Aluminum is cheaper, and marginally less likely to develop leaks. The catch is... if your aluminum coil develops a leak, for all intents and purposes, you're looking at total coil replacement (and probably a new unit). If a COPPER coil developed a leak and you had DIY HVAC skills with a blow torch, you could try doing something desperate like I did, and just cut out the leaking coil portion and bypass it. I lost about 20-30% of the performance, and slaughtered its energy-efficiency, but it gave me the luxury of being able to spend a few months shopping for my next system, redoing my ductwork, and being able to wait a few weeks of lead time and get EXACTLY what I wanted, instead of being forced to settle for whatever the installer could get from his distributor the following afternoon (because a house in Florida without air conditioning is pretty much uninhabitable).

With an aluminum coil, forget it. You really can't do proper in-situ field repairs of leaking aluminum coils. All you can really do is cut them out, replace them, and HOPE the (expensive) splicing system works. In theory, you could take an aluminum coil to a workshop properly equipped to do aluminum-welding... but the mere act of transporting the coil would probably cause enough damage to OTHER parts of the coil to create NEW leaks that would manifest within days or weeks, if not immediately.

Modern central AC units really, truly are a BITCH to repair. The residential HVAC industry got itself hooked on a 10-year replacement cycle, and has progressively switched to designs that are damn near impossible to cost-effectively repair when they inevitably die. :-(

dual toilets in master bathroom

skylights anywhere, especially over a bed

mirrors on bedroom ceiling

That little courtyard feature inside a building which you see in movies sometimes with a single tree in its center.

It sounded smart when I read it, so I had electrical outlets with brass covers installed on the living room and kitchen floors.

In theory, they allow furniture and lamps to float in the room instead of hugging walls.

In reality, they were magnets for dust and toe stubbers as they weren't truly flush.

Interior water fountains. Mold issues.

Those home theaters with seats all in rows. If you have the extra space seems like there are better options.

I disagree, R322

r323 An atrium?

R312: I live in a building in DC a water loop system. They're more common in commercial than residential buildings. There are a limited number of companies that make the heat pumps---I'm surprised our HVAC obsessive doesn't know more about them because one of the specialist makers is in Florida. Also, a limited number of plumbing contractors who service/install them.

I replaced mine a couple years ago with a Climate Master, which seemed to be the most reliable from what I could gather. There were issues with Carrier which escape me now---either quality problems or they had left the business/sold it to someone else. If you do a deep enough search online you'll find message boards for HVAC contractors that go into some of this---a certain amount of obsessive detail, but you can probably get the main points. I definitely cut my heating and a/c bills (20-20%) although it will never pay for the system, but I also never expected that.

Who would have guessed we have a slew of HVAC experts on here?

Not being snarky or sarcastic--you all clearly know your stuff.

And since you do... is it worth it to have someone come in and check out your HVAC once a year, say right around now, before the winter season kicks in?

I really enjoyed R309 post. I love when people have super specific areas of knowledge that I don't know anything about. R309 really knows a lot about HVAC systems, specifically within the context of Florida geography. Good stuff.

[quote] And since you do... is it worth it to have someone come in and check out your HVAC once a year, say right around now, before the winter season kicks in?

I'm not one of THE experts but this has been pretty standard for us in both our homes. Sometimes they'll offer a new customer a free checkup. Other times they'll push you to prepurchase two or three years worth and give a discount, but it's usually beneficial to you to do that deal.

We do ours twice a year - once in late April, and once in late October/early November, to check settings and performance for both heating and cooling.

[quote]Clotheslines - a convenient way to dry your clothes or unbelievably tacky and trashy?

We call it our Solar Powered Drying System. We only use the dryer if it rains or snows.

Our HOA **forbids** clotheslines

we always had a clothesline growing up. My grandparents had a really big one in their yard. Metal supports/crossbars about 20 feet apart and four or five lines between. Ours was smaller. We also had an indoor line that my dad put up in the basement laundry room. I did the same thing in my basement by the washer and dryer.

They're not beautiful objects, but they serve a practical purpose. I'm surprised so many places forbid them.

Clotheslines are considered low-class and tacky in upscale neighborhoods.

But they're banned even in non-upscale neighborhoods where there's an HOA.

[quote]Clotheslines are considered low-class and tacky in upscale neighborhoods.

So are Dataloungers.

Joking aside r338, I'm always surprised by how many Dataloungers come from very modest backgrounds. And how many of them seemed to spend most of their young adult years parked in front of a television, watching all of the garbage shows from that era, that they still rhapsodize over 40 years later and still watch marathons of. We have constant threads about tv shows from the 70s and 80s.

I love my outdoor clothesline. Everything smells so fresh when I bring it in.

Ditto R339. Which is also why they are obsessed with class markers and status symbols of that era, specifically calling out trappings of their childhoods that they feel they have overcome.

I suspect many of them had a tough time being The Gay Kid back then and TV offered an escape from it.

For some strange reason, shared cooling tower systems are rare in Fort Lauderdale condos. Usually, the developers just cram all the individual condenser units onto balconies or the roof. It's completely sub-optimal (lower operating efficiency because they all blow hot air into each other, and 4+ story vertical refrigerant line runs are even worse for efficiency), but everyone does it anyway... at least, below 10-12 stories. Look at photos of Champlain South... you can see the units hanging by their refrigerant lines and power cables. Ditto, for Wilton Manors and the beach to the east. On taller buildings, the developer puts a ledge every few floors and packs a bunch of condenser units on each one.

California's energy efficiency requirements are probably a factor, too.

[quote] a cat with a grudge

lol

[quote] Any kind of basement “bonus” room. It’s a basement; no one wants to spend time there.

I’m with you, R183. A ‘finished basement’ is a deal breaker for me. Not gonna pay extra for a space I’ll never use (and they always raise the price because all that extra square footage!) No thanks.

I use my finished basement as my Home theater. I don’t like a huge TV and speakers as the center of my living room.

Our finished basement had a bedroom and gameroom/TV room.

I am at a loss to understand why people have issues with a finished basement.......

I like historic houses and basements are rarely a selling point. In newer houses of any size, they end up being too big in many ways, and often have spaces with minimal natural lighting - suitable for a home theater, I suppose, or a store room, but the apportionment and placement of utilitarian areas for furnaces, laundry rooms, and finished spaces seems off in a lot of houses. Houses with multiple kids when I was young often had basement "rec rooms" where the old furniture went to die and the children could have a place that mostly theirs. Some had started out as adult space but why drag your guests downstairs to the basement, past the nice rooms, and through some usually miserly stairway located at the back of the kitchen or in some secondary space.

As usual, the oldsters are stuck in the past. Finished basements are a common feature in homes today because of home offices, home theaters, "man caves" and a gaming room for the kids.

The elderly queens here don't know any straight people, never mind straight people under 40 with kids. Finished basements are a big deal now.

Finished basements have been around for a very long time.

But home theaters, man caves and gaming rooms have not. That's what finished basements are used for now.

Clotheslines: back yard is ok; front yard is not.

My prediction is that the stigma on clotheslines will lift.

Me: I line-dry clothes, but indoors. I have an extra pole in my closet and use it to dry clothes (on hangers).

There is a major reason why I don’t like open plan: the kitchen smells and dirty dishes. I like to enjoy my meal, not have soaking pots within view, diffusing their scent over our plates. I also don’t like leaping up to clean right away. My kitchen has a sliding door separating it from the dining room and it also abuts the back deck, so plenty of fresh air gets in. That’s as open plan as I get.

Home theater=big version of the old tv and stereo in the basement; mancave=new version of old hobby/workshop space; game room new version of place in the basement with a pool or pingpong table. Nothing much has changed since the late 40s, but people (probably in real estate) have to feel that they're doing something new when they're not.

My baby boomer parents definitely still have some sort of weird generational class anxiety about TVs. For the longest time, despite the fact they would regularly spend at least a couple hours every night that they weren’t out or entertaining watching crime procedurals in their finished basement (it could be Shetland, but it could just as easily be NCIS or Murder She Wrote), they would publicly support each other in the mutual delusion that “they don’t ever really watch TV”. Now that virtually all the prestige stuff is on the streaming platforms they are more open about their TV watching but it still manifests in weird ways. They bought a lake house a few years ago that came with a giant TV in the living room and an only slightly less giant TV in the master bedroom, and my mom still makes a big song and dance about never using the bedroom TV because “they aren’t TVs in the bedroom sort of people!”

Ironically, my mom will at least once a year tell me how much she loves the smell of laundry dried on the line and will regularly leave pillow cases to dry on their deck.

r354 in the old days the "rec room" type basements were just for the family and were pretty haphazard and thrown together. Today, they're places where people entertain, along with the main floors of the house. Finished basements now look the same as the main rooms upstairs.

Finished basements can be leaky and not fun in an older house, so all of you queens who have Victorians, old Craftsmen homes, etc are probably right to turn up your nose at it.

Most ranches and homes post 1970 don't have that issue with their finished basements (most, not all).

People had finished basements (often with wet bars) when I was growing up in the last century. I’m willing to bet those wet bars were rarely used, but kids parties were often in the basements.

Do finished basements universally count towards square footage today?

A house's listed square footage often did not include basements, and I think in some instances it couldn't. I see more houses that include finished basements in the square footage. I wonder how "finished" it has to be - like does there have to be a bathroom? I'd assume so. I'd think "finished" means that someone could live down there separate from the the people upstairs - thus a certain number and spacing of electrical outlets, a bathroom and sink, HVAC vents and insulation so it's not too hot or cold. But, I really don't know.

I bought my house in 2017. They did not include the basement in the SF, but they did count the toilet and shower stall in the basement as a 2nd full bath.

I would use a finished basement as a fitness and a spa retreat (sauna, steam room, whirlpool, etc.). Obviously the air ventilation system would have to be top-notch to avoid mold issues.

I have seen many houses that are build so that the finished basement actually opens to the outside ("walk-out basement" is usually the term that's used)

They get a decent amount of light and as others have noted, are often used as play spaces for the kids, with "media rooms" tucked into the darker areas.

[quote] The elderly queens here don't know any straight people, never mind straight people under 40 with kids.

That, and they don't quite get why that creates a huge hole in their overall understanding of the world.

R300 THANK YOU. That trick with the faucet really helped I owe you a BJ.

[quote]Finished basements now look the same as the main rooms upstairs.

But they can't, really, not unless they are mostly exposed above the ground level or the footprint of the house is long and thin. It requires windows, proper windows, to look like the principal rooms upstairs on the main floor. A basement is at least partly a floor of a house below the level of the ground and to have windows that aren't those horrible horizontal slits shoved high up on the wall just under a ceiling, you can only squeeze so much properly finished space from a basement.

I am, though, glad to see much higher ceilings in basements than were common in the past, that at least is a mark of civilization of the space.

I like to sleep in a pitch black room, so, I'd put my bedroom in the basement. Gotta have a bathroom down there, too, though.

Don't go too far, though, like Barbra Streisand and her 1920s mall.

r361 some friends of mine have done that and it's fabulous. One couple I know have a sauna/exercise room, home theater and a full bar in their basement. I always tell them that if I lived in their house, I would never go upstairs!

I believe the definition of a finished basement means it's suitable for more than storage. It has interior walls (plaster, drywall, etc) instead of just the foundation.

In my town, it’s illegal to have a bedroom in the basement unless it has a direct means of escape to outside.

r368, yes that's what I thought as well. You can't count it as square footage unless you have an egress window or at least another means of escape (some builders have another stairway leading to the garage.)

[quote] and it's FABULOUS!!!!!!!

R368 I think that's not just the basement but for any floor of the house, code updates now require an egress window (or door) from ANY bedroom, for fire safety.

Interesting. So, among other things, to be considered square footage, no matter the level that it's "finished," you have to be able to exit the basement without going upstairs?

[quote]I have an extra pole in my closet

Are you closet stripper?

[quote] Are you closet stripper?

Are you still searching for moose and squirrel?

[quote] In my town, it’s illegal to have a bedroom in the basement unless it has a direct means of escape to outside.

That makes sense. Maybe some clerestory windows that you can black out for sleep, then. (Basement ceiling would be about 2 feet from ground level.)

I love my Jacuzzi tub. I use it 2 to 4 times a week. It’s a great way to reduce stress at the end of the day. Taking a shower doesn’t have the same impact for me. And as I’ve read about people having trouble cleaning the Jets I’ve never found this to be a problem.

I think it's because you run the jets regularly R376 so the lines stay clean. If you seldom use them, nasty things grow in the lines and black stuff spews out when you turn them on. Also if the jets haven't been used in years, you can end up with a leak because the little rubber gaskets in the water lines get dried out and lose their ability to "seal". I would use mine once a week if they weren't a risk.

I love atriums. Your own little private outdoors. But I'm not a plant person, so I wouldn't be able to make one look nice. Maybe I could put in some cactus. I've seen houses for sale that have them and I always think it's cool.

The pasta faucet over the stove. I have never used it and never will

You can have a basement with full size windows... it's just really expensive. Basically, you excavate a pit around the door/window. People in cities like London do it all the time to squeeze a full additional story under a height limit. Some people literally excavate away the entire back yard & surround it with retaining walls, so the (legal) basement is basically the ground floor, just pushed down into a hole.

The big problem is dealing with snow. Water can be pumped away, but snow collects and lingers. Flooding if the pump system fails is a real risk, too.

Basement space CAN be first rate living space, but it almost never makes sense if adding an additional story instead is a viable option.

R343, I agree that's funny, but it's also redundant.

[quote] Also if the jets haven't been used in years, you can end up with a leak because the little rubber gaskets in the water lines get dried out and lose their ability to "seal". I would use mine once a week if they weren't a risk.

This doesn't make sense to me. You say it's good to use them frequently but you are not going to use it frequently because of the risk.

Multiple levels (e.g., sunken living room).

A "wet" bar inside the living room. Unless it's a huge house with square feet to spare, this seems like a waste. Outside (on the deck / patio) is a different story.

I’d love a jacuzzi bathtub or just a large bathtub. If I were buying a house, it would be my number one luxury item. I use my apartment’s standard bathtub a few days a week in winter. It’s rather like sitting in a puddle but it’s better than nothing. I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments and really learned a lot, so thank you!

[quote]Outside (on the deck / patio) is a different story.

Not in the Northeast

R379 We covered that ages ago. Do keep up.

[quote] why drag your guests downstairs to the basement

There may be reasons.

R386, I have to read through over380 posts on this stupid thread. No thanks. I’ll just chime in when I want.

R356: You really are attached to the uniqueness of "modern" finished basements. People have been using these for parties for ages---they often had wet bars. My uncle used to do slide shows from his many travels besides having an area for pool and pingpong (which, shockingly, guests would use). Teenagers could entertain their friends in finished or even semi-finished without annoying parents.

Walkout basements---again nothing new. It's called building on a grade. My parents friends in DC had a pre-WWII house like this. English garden apartments have this feature and also are common in DC---it's called having a rowhouse on land that slopes downward toward the back. Another relative had a just after WWII house where the before grade garage had a doorway into the basement, which was finished, this sort of thing has variations.

With unglazed quarry tile, you NEED something like a Hoover FloorMate to spray clean water and vacuum it up when it gets dirty after the brushes do their thing. A mop bucket just turns black after a few tiles and sloshes the dirt around.

For quarry tile, a FloorMate is the best $200 you'll ever spend.

r389 no one is saying that finished basements have not existed for a long time. Today, they're much more upscale and popular than ever. At least in the Northeast.

Finished basements today are a place of refuge. As has been noted, they have saunas, exercise rooms, media rooms and gaming rooms. It's like having a second house underneath your main house.

Ice house by the river. But the river never freezes over anymore. Palm House or Orangerie. But you can grow them outside in the garden, now!

My family lived in the midwest during the mid-'50s. Home air-conditioning wasn't common for the middle class then so, during the hot humid summers, we slept in the finished basement where it was nice and cool. In the winters, we'd come into the house through the back door and go directly down the basement stairs to change out of our boots and snowsuits where it was nice and warm from the big coal-burning furnace and our wet, muddy, snow-covered clothes didn't make a mess all over the rugs and hardwood floors in the house.

R236: Front porches were disappearing well before WWII. They also were not a feature of pre-war luxury homes. I had a number of relatives who owned 1920s middle class homes without front porches. Side porches esp. in large homes or homes on large lots were common as were sleeping porches in the back which created a more social backporch on the first floor of homes. These often got screened-in (the side porches often were built that way) and would have storm windows for winter. Often they would get turned into more finished "Florida rooms" (on the first floor) which sometimes would be fitted with base board heating and wall unit a/c. Apartment buildings often had sleeping porches. My first DC apartment had one that had been finished but not made for four seasons. It was perfect for storage and I used it as office space much of the year, as it had a view of the Capitol which no other room had.

R236: What killed hanging out in front was A/C not regulations. people continued to socialize on front stoops in the suburbs. They would watch their kids playing and talk to neighbors and passerby. People would set-up lawn chairs in their front yards, their driveways or in front of an attached garage. All of that disappeared as people got a/c---first it would be wall units in select rooms and then whole house units as their furnaces needed replacement. A whole culture of "neighboring" came to an end.

R395, I always thought sleeping porches sounded delightful, until I remembered W. C. Fields' experience with one.

Here's an example of a townhouse with "hardcore" walkout daylight basement on a completely non-sloping lot, created by literally digging away the entire back yard and surrounding it with concrete retaining walls.

Here's another small townhouse with a small backyard that was completely excavated to create a walk-out daylight basement

A *spectacular* walk-out basement that's MULTIPLE levels deep... on a narrow, non-sloping lot for a London townhouse.

R400, Sir Kevin McCloud presented that home on Grand Designs.

If it's not obvious, I totally love London basement porn. It's the ultimate intersection of engineering and zoning loopholes.

[quote]This doesn't make sense to me. You say it's good to use them frequently but you are not going to use it frequently because of the risk.

Correct, it is good to use the jets frequently. If you don't, the gaskets get dried out and can leak if you suddenly start using them. Mine had not been used for years before I bought the place, so I don't use them because I don't want to risk flooding my downstairs neighbor. It happened in several units in the building and caused extensive water damage.

I would kill for a "finished basement", great space for my studio (I'm a composer) and gaming equipment and what have you not.

Back on topic: Another useless feature is the infamous hotel rain shower with additional spouts, water coming at you from various directions.

I, too, dislike open floor plans. Wish my kitchen was situated in its own space with a door — but it's a rental, so not much I can do about it.

I hate basements and attics. They're just creepy

I'm with Gaston Bachelard on basements, no matter how elegantly finished, how high-ceilinged, how bright with natural light, they always tug at the wrong end of my imagination. Fine for a home gym, a music studio (and spaces that needs isolation and insulation), for storage and furnace rooms and electrical closets, for laundry rooms, for occasional home projects, for kids to ride tricycles when it rains, and for a room or two where kids in the house can be apart from parents. But I don't want an office in one, or a room to relax, a bedroom, etc. An apart from the rest suite for the parents-in-law can make sense and is fine because it's for someone else, not for me, but I don't want to live underground, no matter how brilliantly engineered and designed. The multi-million-pound multi-level basements excavated under (and well beyond) the old cellars and foundations of Georgian and Victorian houses in London...it doesn't matter how much money is lavished on there always service and recreational areas to my mind, not a place to live.

[quote]“Verticality is ensured by the polarity of cellar and attic, the marks of which are so deep that, in a way, they open up two very different perspectives for a phenomenology of the imagination. Indeed, it is possible, almost without commentary, to oppose the rationality of the roof to the irrationality of the cellar. A roof tells its raison d'etre right away: it gives mankind shelter from the rain and sun he fears. Geographers are constantly reminding us that, in every country, the slope of the roofs is one of the surest indications of the climate. We "understand" the slant of a roof. Even a dreamer dreams rationally; for him, a pointed roof averts rain clouds. Up near the roof all our thoughts are clear. In the attic it is a pleasure to see the bare rafters of the strong framework. Here we participate in the carpenter's solid geometry.

[quote]As for the cellar, we shall no doubt find uses for it .. It will be rationalized and its conveniences enumerated. But it is first and foremost the dark entity of the house, the one that partakes of subterranean forces. When we dream there, we are in harmony with the irrationality of the depths.”

― Gaston Bachelard, The Poetics of Space

If good old Gaston got his ass to sunny Southern California, he would have had a change of heart.

A basement is nice to have, if only for the storage. An attic tends to get hotter and the space is often more awkward. I had a marginally useful crawl space and an attic that mostly worked for storage. I would have happy had an even partially finished basement.

Too much back-talk in this thread. Take your snark like a man.

Storm cellars.

I bought a raised ranch, which specifically doesn't have a true basement. The bottom floor is half above ground. It also doesn't have much of an attic as the ceilings were lifted on the top floor almost to the roof.

What about those double-pane windows that may work well for insulation but after a few years get sort of grimy inside.

Thank you R412! People are obsessed with dual pane windows but they fail after a while when they get a tiny leak somewhere. Double pane windows become foggy when the seal is broken and moisture is allowed into the sealed unit. ... If the seal is broken moisture will accumulate and you will experience condensation, or fog, in between your two panes of glass

I hate antiques, clutter and knicknacks. Give me modern any day.

I set my traeger grill a few inches from my double pane window and the outside pane cracked. It’s so ugly but I am too lazy to call someone out to fix it.

The trend for huge master bathrooms that are so enormous that the bathroom is totally lacking in comfort and privacy. These gargantuan master bathrooms are often set up so that bathtub is like a stage with steps to walk up to get into the big tub. Who wants to bathe on a stage in a vast room with windows behind the bathtub? Or walk down slick marble stairs with wet feet? How chilly and exposing is it in that vast room when naked? Not cozy at all. Huge waste of space and money and most people who have master bathrooms like that end up more comfortable in the guest bathroom.

While I agree that huge master baths are a bit ridiculous, as someone who owns a 1940s 1000 sq foot bunaglow, a tiny full bathroom isn't where it's at either. There's a happy medium somewhere.

Who takes baths these days?

the only balcony is off your master. The realtor always say, this is a perfect place for your morning cafe. No, the perfect place would be the garden off my kitchen, or just the KITCHEN.

That’s what I’ve been saying. Studies show that ppl don’t spend that much time in their bedrooms. Yet ppl spend a disproportionate amount of money renovating bedrooms.

Kitchens are the hub of activity.

i don't like the large master suite area. It is too big too sleep in. I like a separate den & office space.

i don't like the toilet closet thing, unless it has a sink. i don't understand why all these toilet closet without a sink were built? Very stupid. These large housing developers have NO architecture, cultural/historical or functionality abilities.

i don't like rain shower heads. I don't like multiple knobs, or the Lux digital ones. I am FUCKING half sleep.

The large principal bedroom suite in a new build, more than half the size of the second floor, so the equivalent of the entry hall, living room, dining room, kitchen, and rear entry combined. I have acres of wide open floor space, built-in window seats, not one, not two, but three huge walk-in closets connected by a dressing area, and a bathroom of three semi-distinct spaces large enough to accommodate a Buick. I was at the top of the owners' "must have" list: a huge bedroom suite, a retreat space within the house.

The owners have no children. From whom or what are they retreating in this private suite?

I own and live by myself in a bi-level house (don't judge me!) Sometimes this style of home is called a split-entry. You could say that mine is a much smaller version of the Brady Bunch house The suckiest part of it is the actual front door entrance, where guests immediately have to make a decision to go on upstairs or head downstairs, while the host (me) has to back up the stairs after admitting a guest. But the great part is a full-sized finished lower level with extensive natural light and a walk out (big French doors going out to a concrete covered patio) on the back side of the house. As a music teacher, I love the lower level. It is where my music studio is and my students enter through the garage via a pin-pad code, so they never enter the "living" portion of my house (the upstairs level). I love love love having my own private space while being able to run a business in the lower level.

This is in a dry part of the Northwest, so basement humidity and mold and mildew are never issues. Having spent some time in east coast basements, there is always a certain amount of dankness in underground areas and the atmosphere there is not inviting.

If you have a bilevel in a climate that isn't unsustainable desert, you buy a dehumidifier and remember to empty it.

If the desert is unsustainable, what happens to it? Rain forest?

My master bedroom is on the main floor, and the previous owners put a very high end hot tub on the balcony right next to the master window. My partner likes to use the hot tub more than me, and we argue all of the time about the noise (I go to bed early and he likes to stay up late drinking beer and listening to music in the hot tub). The heated floors in the master bathroom are also a waste. They take forever to heat up, so I don’t use them.

[quote] he likes to stay up late drinking beer and listening to music in the hot tub

Trash!

[quote]The heated floors in the master bathroom are also a waste. They take forever to heat up, so I don’t use them.

Heated floors are not meant to be turned on and off like the lights when you enter and leave a bathroom. Use the timer (or install a timer) and have them warm for the range of hours you might want, to be warm in the morning and the time at night you might take a shower or bath, for instance. You have to think in terms of hours not minutes and allow time for the floors to heat.

Live-in maids.

Cavernous master bedrooms scare me. I don't feel safe sleeping with lots of open space around me.

This never seemed like a good idea to anyone with a dick or set of balls, but is worth mentioning I think.

The corner bathtub built in to a knee wall with faucet set exactly at the logical place to step into the fucking thing. I understand the faucet set is toward the front so that you can start drawing the huge bath 2 minutes before it fills with enough water for a good soak, but for fuck's sake does no one ever think about the very wide stride necessary to "step into" the bath from either side of the faucet, into the narrow ends with less place to plant your feet securely. And that faucet there in the middle of everything the whole time, threatening to rip your junk clean off in a domestic "accident" of horrific design.

We have five showerheads of different kind in our large shower but the rainforest one is a disappointment. I don’t want a gentle downfall when I shower, I want a TORRENT.

We have rented many houses at the Jersey shore over the years and many of them have balconies in the back overlooking the alley. I have no idea who would use it. I have only ever stepped out there to call down to someone getting in or out of their car.

R425, split levels were pretty common in the 1970s and 80s and new builds (1960s too?). The lower level is definitely different than a "basement basement" since the windows are so much bigger. I had a high school classmate with a quad level - four levels alternating between sides of the house. You'd enter at front door level and take a few steps up and then to the right for the main living/dining, kitchen, or a few steps down and to the left for the regular bi-level "basement" with large windows and significant light. But these areas only took up half the house. From the living room/kitchen area you went up a few steps (on a separate stairway than the one at the front door) and to the left to the bedrooms which would be over the bi-level basement. And in the bi level you could go down a few steps to the right and be in an area that was finished, but was more a true basement in that there wasn't much above ground. This area was under the living/dining/kitchen area. In middle school I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

Grand staircases.

The first NYC apt I live in had a working fireplace. I and my partner used it often, by the fifth year we used it once a year around the holidays. It was drafty even though it had a good flu damper and no mater how often we cleaned the room it always felt slightly gritty plus it sucked up the heat from the room.

[quote] i don't like the toilet closet thing, unless it has a sink. i don't understand why all these toilet closet without a sink were built? Very stupid.

In Japan, that's the kind of bathroom set-up I had. It's common there. It did feel odd sitting in that little room.

However, the rest of my bathroom (Japan) was awesome. Tons of "medicine" cabinet space surrounding the mirror above the sink. I think the mirror even had a defogger.

There was a separate, completely tiled room for my bathtub and shower. The bathtub was set flush into three of the tiled walls (on the left). Shower to the right of the tub (lots of room to take a shower).

Standard fireplaces suck--soot and dirt. Fumes that make you dizzy. Having to buy logs.

I changed ours to a gas fireplace and blower. Fire turns on with a button and warms the living room in a minute. No mess at all.

I'm a New Englander and I will never have a gas fireplace. I burn wood in it the old-fashioned way.

R137: Rufen sie mich an.

That sliding trapdoor over the basement piranha tank.

My NYC studio apartment had a wood burning fireplace, and I Ioved it -- the apartment was always well heated with the steam radiator, so building and watching a fire was just a fun way to spend an evening. The corner delis all sold small bundles of wood - enough for 2 fires, so it was a bit pricey but easy enough. Gas fires are efficient but not really interesting to watch.

I always thought split-levels were cool-looking but now as I get older all I can think about is how you cannot avoid steps with those houses. And moving shit in and out is more complicated.

Split-levels go back to the 50s.

"What's the Difference Between a Raised Ranch and Split Level? ... Technically speaking, a split-level has more than 2 levels, usually with staggered half-story changes between them. While a raised ranch has two levels, the lower level sunken below grade and an entry at grade halfway between the two floor levels."

"On The North Shore of Long Island, The Hi-Ranch, Raised Ranch and Bi-Level Ranch houses are just different terms for the SAME style Floor Plan which is typically considered a Hi-Ranch."

Long Island is part of New York State.

If Muriel allowed multiple pictures, I'd illustrate each. Google would help if you're really interested in what I think are distinct differences, and most people think of as arcane knowledge.

[quote] I always thought split-levels were cool-looking but now as I get older all I can think about is how you cannot avoid steps with those houses. And moving shit in and out is more complicated.

I have a split level and all the large furniture has to be brought in through the back door. I also know it's not a place I can retire in. In fact, my elderly parents don't like negotiating the stairs (I figure it makes them exercise) as the guest bedroom is downstairs.

R447 - My parent's Long Island Hi-Ranch, and hundreds of other in the neighborhood, has both floors completely above grade and is built on a slab with no basement. Your basic descriptions are spot on, but I think the topography of the lot and the propensity of the area to flooding are what determines if the first floor is partly below grade or not.

The houses all have have the narrow side facing the street with a front door atop a stoop midway between the two floors on the right and, a garage door below a slight bump out of the living room with a picture window on the left. Upstairs is an L shaped living room / dining room wrapped around a kitchen, a full bath and three bedrooms with a half bath in the master. The short side of the living room is open with a railing to the entry landing and the stairs - half flight up to the living room and kitchen and half flight down to what we always called "the basement" even though it's not. There is storage under the stairs, a garage and a laundry room in the front half of the first floor, and a full bath and den with sliding door out to the backyard in the rear. True Split-Levels were a good deal bigger, with bigger lots, and much more expensive in the 60s / 70s -- the Hi-Ranch was a way to get some of the aesthetic (in the living room & entry stairwell) at a much lower price point.

Just a comment about stairs at home. I lived in a fourth floor walk-up and I bitched about those stairs constantly. When friends came over it was always funny to see who was huffing & puffing after climbing three flights and who wasn't. ("I thought you said you did the Stairmaster every day?") Anyway, after ten years I moved. No more stairs. But also no more of the daily cardio I was getting without being aware of it.

I used to live on the 8th floor and had my parking space on the 2nd floor (the parking structure was attached to the building with walkways). I used the stairs everyday even if I was bringing in groceries. But I'm a "hand cart shopper" meaning I only buy what I can fit into a hand cart and carry up in one trip.

I miss the "exercise without even thinking about it" aspect of that place!

[quote]That sliding trapdoor over the basement piranha tank.

Why didn't I think of that?

My grandmother lived in a 4th floor walkup until she was 90. A lot of whining here about incidental exercise. I regularly do my 5 flights (6 if I want the mail).

Jack-n-Jill bathroom. Do Jack and Jill really want to share a bathroom?

R455: I think it was probably the height of 70s's style along with "earth tones" and dark wood in the kitchen to go with your coppertone refrigerator.

The Jack and Jill bathrooms are still a thing. In my new-ish house there are three upstairs bedrooms with two rooms that have the J & J setup. My guess is those two rooms were designed to be children's rooms.

Aren't J&J bathrooms simply bigger with two sinks? Nothing necessitates that two people use it at once - plenty of families don't use double-sink bathrooms simultaneously - generally. Maybe sometimes, but not commonly.

If 2 people aren't using them, then it defeats the point, esp. when the space could be used for something else.

Sure, if there were a cap on how big you could build a room or a house. But since there's not, people can have two sinks AND whatever else might go where the second sink is.

R458 - a Jack & Jill bathroom is between two bedrooms and has doors into each - think Brady Bunch. Double sinks are most usually seen in master baths - so Chad & Karen can simultaneously brush their teeth. In theory.

[quote]Jack-n-Jill bathroom. Do Jack and Jill really want to share a bathroom?

I don't see the horror of these. I would likely not design a new house to have them, but buying a house where two bedrooms, neither of them mine, shared a bath? It's not the end of the world, neither for guests or family. I've always lived in historic houses which are typically short on bathrooms, having been built with none or with one or two baths in a large house. Not being part of a Brady Bunch family, it's always been just me or just me and a partner, so the fact that bedrooms outnumber bathrooms isn't such a bother when inhabitants greatly outnumber bedrooms. If house guests have to share a bathroom, or walk down a hall to find one, I can live withe the fact that they will have to live with that.

Sure, rich people building new houses I can see that they want a lot of bathrooms, but I'm old enough that the idea of a house with 4 bedrooms and 6, 7, or 8 bathrooms seems excessive. If I had kids I would look at two of them having to share a Jack-&-Jill bathroom as a life lesson in accommodating others.

Some people on Data Lounge and House Hunters are a little too precious about absolute privacy for their sacred bodily functions.

Sometimes, they are between a bedroom and a hall, serving as a half bath. My sister's 70s condo had that arrangement.

Most of the time, they're not shared and you'd think twice about whose bedrooms you'd want to share one of these (e.g., same gender for privacy). Ultimately, it's more practical to simply share a bathroom and the sink space could be used for storage, a bigger shower stall, or even smaller dimensions for the room.

I grew up in Europe where J-a-J bathrooms are not that common. How do they work? Jack enters bathroom, locks the door to Jill's bedroom and takes a dump or a shower. Once done he unlocks Jill's door and goes back to his own bedroom? What if he forgets to unlock Jill's door?

it's a bathroom between two bedrooms. It's not like an architectural wonder of the world or anything.

[quote] What if he forgets to unlock Jill's door?

I am sure this happens all the time.

Sitting areas in the master bedroom. Who the fucks uses those? I have a family room, living room and outdoor entertainment area, but no, let me go up to the sitting area with someone to sit there. How often is this really a thing?

I seems to me what everyone is describing as a J&J bathroom is the typical, two sink bathroom found in luxury hotels. From my experience, this is where the model comes from. People who spend time at luxury hotels want the bathroom recreated in their home. This is why I quit interior design. I got sick of doing line-for-line copies of the bathroom from the Four Seasons in Hong Kong.

The J&J has longer, wider roots--I think they had one on Leave it to Beaver from the late 50s. Noted upthread, my sister's 70s condo had it---your basic middle brow southern California suburb. It's a "great idea" that doesn't work well in practice.

I lived in an apartment in college that had two bedrooms, and the bath was set up with the toilet in a separate room, the tub/shower in a separate room, and two sinks in an open area. There were four of us in the apartment, so all four of us could be using one part of the facilities at the same time.

R467, every time my parents would fight, which was often, my mother would retreat to the master bedroom, lock herself in there and spend all day in the sitting area, reading, knitting, meditating, etc.

[quote] Sitting areas in the master bedroom. Who the fucks uses those? How often is this really a thing?

I think Miss Ellie was retreating to the seating area in her bedroom for two days when she was mourning the loss of Jock. See? Happens everywhete all the time.

[quote]I seems to me what everyone is describing as a J&J bathroom is the typical, two sink bathroom found in luxury hotels. From my experience, this is where the model comes from. People who spend time at luxury hotels want the bathroom recreated in their home. This is why I quit interior design. I got sick of doing line-for-line copies of the bathroom from the Four Seasons in Hong Kong.

Or may interior design quit you, R468. It's one bathroom shared between two bedrooms, with fuck all to do with Four Seasons hotels. The word string "Jack and Jill" rose from the late 1940s to peak popularity in 1950 and then continued at a slightly lower level through the 1960s, finally waning considerably in 1977, and the architectural popularity of that form of bathroom followed the same trend in popularity, one conveniently parallel to a rise and decline in birthrate.

A Jack-and-Jill bathroom was both a luxury and a cost saving measure. The popularity of multiple bathrooms accelerated from the 1920s and 1930s, but the idea of each bedroom having its unique bathroom was uncommon still. A "family bathroom" shared by multiple family members or generations was still common but the post-war rise in housing construction brought smaller houses driven where kitchens and bathrooms gained some status as more important relative the other rooms. A Jack-and-Jill bathroom gave two kids, or two sets of kids (sharing bedrooms and larger families were more common) in two different bedrooms a shared bath between them. That was considered enough of a luxury for children. The J&J bathroom was like any other in most cases; it might have two sinks to allow two people to brush their teeth at the same time, and somewhat rarely it might have a private water closet within the bathroom to boost privacy and simultaneous utility of the space. The only importance of two sinks is that it allowed simultaneous use of the space, not that it emulated luxury hotel bathroom design standards developed years later. Adding a J&J bathroom was a luxury, but not the wild luxury of having one bathroom per bedroom, that would come later.

A principal bedroom en suite bathroom with twin sinks also allows simultaneous use of the same place, but by occupants of the same bedroom who are presumably fucking, not the inhabitants of submarine tight bunk bedrooms of a co-mingled offspring of a 1970s family of a widower architect and his pixiesh wife whose previous maritial status was never mentioned. Again, nothing very Hong Kong Four Seasons about it.

I like this somewhat idealistic view (with fucked up scale) of a J&J bath with its elements of an airport or nightclub lounge. It lacks only a restroom attendant.

R473 - grew up in a tight 60s tract house where my sisters shared a bedroom, and while my parents had a half-bath off their bedroom all 5 of us showered in the one full “family” bath. Watching the Brady Bunch growing up, a J&J bathroom seemed the height of luxury to me; even more exotic than a live-in housekeeper.

i don't like the flat screen over the fireplace, it is so trashy. who thought that was a good idea?

I grew up in a household of 6 people in an 1800 square foot house built in the 1950s, and we all shared one bathroom. There was a huge crack in the bathroom door for years, from people kicking it when someone was taking too long. I don’t know how we didn’t lose our minds. My partner and I shared 1200 square feet when we lived in NYC, and I wanted to strangle him after a month.

I don't think it's trashy, but sometimes it's the only place that makes sense to place the screen

I agree with you, r477. I have an open floor plan, and the only solid wall in the living room has a fireplace (the rest of the walls are windows for the views). The tv goes above the fireplace or I don’t have a tv at all.

I appreciate that there may be no other place to put the tv but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a very bad look.

Making the TV the centerpiece of your living room -- that is, the centerpiece of your life -- is both 1950s and down class.

Why not just get rid of the thing?

Because people watch TV.

Well, that's the thing... those spaces aren't really living rooms in the old school sense. I'm GenX and we had the living room that no one could go into, except Xmas and when company came over and the den. These current open floor plan areas are family/gathering spaces. It doesn't matter where the TV goes. I think this is some kind of eldergay rule that is just impractical for the way people currently live. And this is coming from someone who, in DL terms, is an eldergay.

The TV over the fireplace thing is probably more common in a condo than in a house. It doesn't make sense for a bunch of reasons--heat, dust, etc .are not electronics' friends. Also, over time, if you use your fireplace, it will pull away from the wall. A modern fireplace with an insert probably not so much, but an older one with an actual mantel, etc. will and that will mean that all the dust, soot, heat, etc. will go straight up the tv.

"Making the TV the centerpiece of your living room -- that is, the centerpiece of your life -- is both 1950s and down class. "

No one cares. What is some DLers obsession with looking low class or upper class? Of course there are places where a TV would look better, but there's also the utility aspect of most of our homes. Like 477 points out, there may be no other good place for the TV, even if it's not the greatest look.

Fireplaces. The 'natural' ones are a mess. Buying wood that isn't infested with bugs, the woodpile outside the house becomes the rodents' winter paradise. You can't leave the fire untended until it is completely OUT, the smallest sparks fly out of the fireplace screen and burn holes in the carpet. I know people use Duralogs but then what's the use of natural fireplace.

Gas fireplaces will raise your utility bill quite a bit if you use it year-round. If you're not using it for most of the year, what's the point?

I noticed that people who use fire, seriously, to heat their houses use those black metal stoves that are free-standing. You cut a hole through your ceiling & run the pipe out their.

I also hate when people try to hide their TVs or put them in a dumb place. You know damn well they're watching TV.

bump

Two story front entry. You have to be an acrobat to clean window, change lighbulbs and collect the cobwebs.