I was a Republican

Cool

We told/warned you all.

"I want to have a level headed discussion."

About what, specifically? How proud we are of you?

[quote]The Tea Party has taken over the Republican Party and ruined it. Once they all got elected in 2016, they blew up the deficit and got involved in culture wars.

2016???

In 1992, Pat Buchanan was running for the GOP nomination and foaming at the mouth about culture wars. His exact words. A lot of Republicans were listening. Not you. You weren't paying attention.

Thank you for saying it, R4. You could even go back to the late ‘70s and Anita Bryant to track the seeds of the culture wars that brought the religious right into the Republican fold and sealed Reagan’s ascension. OP, you don’t think the phrase “welfare queen” constitutes a culture war?

I love these Never Trunpers who long for the days when they were just planting the seeds of authoritarian takeover of our country. You were fine with Sarah Palin then, OP? Thought that was a good idea, did ya?

[quote]Yes, I know the Republicans have not always been the best gay advocates.

This is a laughable understatement. Republicans have never been "gay advocates" and, in actual fact, have always been our worst enemies.

[quote]I care more about economic, international, and domestic policies.

So you're both greedy AND racist. Congratulations, you're a basic bitch.

Who the heck still cares about the deficit?

Only thing I care about is stopping the hordes of migrants taking over our country and ending the woke insanity.

I'd go out and campaign for single-payer healthcare if we could get a border wall in exchange.

[quote]A lot of Republicans were listening. Not you. You weren't paying attention.

OP was too busy counting his money and calling the cops on "suspicious" black people who looked "out of place."

"Haven't always been the best gay advocates"? Good of you to notice.

OP, who did you vote for in 2016? You left that out, curiously.

"Domestic policies" = black and brown people getting uppity and demanding fairness.

OP is a Nazi who just discovered there were injustices against the Jewish race.

"International policies" = invade brown people's countries and steal their resources.

"Economic policies" = screwing the little guy over in the hopes you might join the billionaire's club yourself one day.

[quote]They do not know what the hell they are doing! It is all about power!

They absolutely know what they're doing. They're protecting the ultra-rich and corporations. Everything else to them is secondary.

R4 I was a H.W. fan since he cleaned up the party after Watergate (He was RNC).

R5 I did not like McCain and definitely not Palin. He should have picked Lieberman. Honestly. How fucking stupid of him not to after eight years of W. Anyone with half a brain could have told you Obama was going to win, even before he beat out Clinton and Edwards.

Every Gay Republican I ever knew was a self-loathing closet case. You need to discover why you were ever a Republican in the first place. They don't want you and will do nothing for your benefit. They'll take your money and banish you from their kingdom

R15 In today's world the ultra rich establishment and corporations are all liberal. We are in a political transition, the Republicans have lost their fucking minds.

If you aren’t a troll, OP, your party sold its soul when Reagan hitched his star to Lee Atwater and his satanist hoard.

R19 No, Reagan sold his soul when he got in bed with the Moral Majority.

[quote]In today's world the ultra rich establishment and corporations are all liberal.

Well! That's the dumbest thing you've posted yet in this thread, OP.

OP/R18, the Republicans are the ones who gave a tax cut to the rich and corporations. Democrats are the ones always trying to make sure they pay more.

[quote][R15] In today's world the ultra rich establishment and corporations are all liberal.

Are you fucking insane? Do you know a single working class person?

R21 Gavin Newsom is a liberal elite. His dad was an attorney for J. Paul Getty and then a federal judge. When Newsom ran for mayor of San Francisco, he raise $15 million, back in the early to mid-2000's. How is that not establishment?

Look, I have left the Republican Party. You are acting like I am sucking Trumps dick.

"Liberal" = to the left of Herbert Hoover.

[quote]Look, I have left the Republican Party.

Only when it and the country hit rock bottom after decades of the policies and politicians that you supported. You get no passes here. You are scum, and your replies in this thread only prove that fact.

R26 If it was not for The Great Depression, Hoover would have been one of the greatest presidents. It is super unfortunate what happened to hi,.

So glad you're not trolling or anything!

OP only likes "true" Republicans like Bush whos started an illegal war, and Cheney who waterboarded everybody in sight.

Okay, you're just blocked now.

R24 are you using an example of one person as proof of your point that most rich people and corporations are liberal?

That’s really fucking dumb.

And Bannon is a DL'r.

C u next Tuesday, Nov 2.

I was not a fan of W or Cheney.

The last Republicans I fully supported were Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush.

The other Republicans I like are Robert Gates, Colin Powell, James Baker, Rob Portman, and Jeanne Kirkpatrick

[quote] The real Republicans, Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, James Baker, Carly Fiorina, Rob Portman, etc. have rightfully left the party. I am with right there with them. In the wise words of Republican Rex Tillerson, "He's a fucking moron."

They were fine with Trump for most of his administration because they got many of their wet dream--like s HUGE tax cut for the rich.

OP- You sound sincere/rational to me. This is a worthy topic. You're not a unicorn. But you see there are no honest R's. We are used to their science denials about religion, that's a given but now they lie about everything and anything as necessary. Jason Miller = Abortionist =no problem, TRump rapes a 13yo, Wifebeater, Pedophile, Rapist , all 100percent ok in todays big white tent.

Yes, there are many rich, establishment liberals but they are not all and not the majority.

No current Republican can be intellectually honest on any important issue. They carve out a position and defend it with verbal ju jitsu and if pressed by facts they start screaming. That way they never lose an argument because it ends in a draw. Rinse, lather, repeat. They are trained to do this. They have no policy, no morals and no intellect.

When is the last time you saw David Frum on TV. He used to be a mainstay, intelligent, calm and rational. No, now Meghan fucking McCain is on MTP.

Today's Republican Party platform- WHAT TRUMP WANTS

[quote]The real Republicans, Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, James Baker, Carly Fiorina, Rob Portman, etc. have rightfully left the party. I am with right there with them.

None of these people supported gay rights.

[quote] When is the last time you saw David Frum on TV. He used to be a mainstay, intelligent, calm and rational.

and so full of bull shit!

R38, Trump didn't support gay rights either.

See video below where Trump says he's against gay marriage

Polifact: Trump Wants to Undo Gay Marriage: TRUE

Better late than never, OP. In this existential war, there’s no time for recriminations. We need to now graciously accept all comers to the this righteous cause.

Not sure.

Too little, too late. We don’t want you. You should have left with the ascendancy of Lee Atwater, at the very latest when your “sainted” 🤮 Ronald Reagan ignored AIDS. You are worse than Ken Mehlman, who at least finally repented for all the Marriage Amendments in the 2004 Presidential race. You’re a disgusting POS Quisling. Go away.

R35, it’s telling that most of the Republicans you admire are dead.

Reasonable Republicans are literally going extinct.

This was a good interview.

[quote]However, the Republican Party over the last few years has done nothing but inflate the national deficit.

They've always hated you.

This didn't come about in the past few years.

The people you admire, OP, are much worse than Trump.

OP why would you post such an admission here? You will not get a pat on the back for your conversion ---plus you will be called every nasty name in the book. Idiot. And how you could support HW Bush is beyond me---a war monger and member of the CIA . UGH!

R48 How so?

Trump got into the party and started calling them RINO's.

His sheep follow along and hate them now.

[quote] Yes, I am a gay man, Yes, I know the Republicans have not always been the best gay advocates. I care more about economic, international, and domestic policies.

And how were the Republicans with economic, international, and domestic policies....?

[quote] I was a Republican

What are you now, libertarian?

[quote]your party sold its soul when Reagan hitched his star to Lee Atwater and his satanist hoard.

You could argue it started in 1968 with Nixon and the Southern Strategy, when the Republican Party absorbed all the Dixiecrat fugitives from the Democratic Party as it began its long (and still very much in progress) evolution towards being the party of civil rights. Anyway, I can see you're smelling cookies, so help yourself! I made snickerdoodles and molasses crinkles.

Republicans just need to get back to their core project of making rich people richer and destroying the planet. Then OP might return to the party.

OP, when Reagan massively defunded education in favour of elevating religious extremism, that should have been a dead give away for you to leave the party.

R55 I was not a Reagan Republican! I have said that like ten times already.

NOW a warning, OP?

R20, Reagan sold his soul decades before meeting the Moral Majority. How he sold out the members of the Screen Actors Guild when he was the union's president in the 1950's was shameful. But Reagan lacked the decency to feel shame.

Lame excuse OP, you were a republican when Reagan was president and still after that.

Let's stop eating our own, people. We have enough to do dealing with the opponents of democracy to be trying to exact a pound of flesh from our allies, however recent to the fold they may be.

You're a bore, OP.

Do you mean to say, "boor," R61?

True R60, but it would be good if these "I was a republican" people could explain why they made inexplicably rotten decisions for decades.

So you love and worship money and the people who have money. Got it. Great. You are a quality human being. Thank you for the gift that is you. Your only problem with Reagan was that he got in bed with the moral majority, because suddenly for a brief moment in time it was you who was on the chopping block and that was just crazy. Other than that, it has all been great for you and for the Republican Party. Well, okay then.

I don't know, R63. If someone comes to my defense if I'm under physical attack, I'm not going to ask him for his voting record.

It doesn’t matter if you left the Republican Party. You should have known better. You’re a piece of shit.

And no need to, r65, as there is even less need to join him or her in voting the same way. So what exactly are you talking about? Did Karl Rove save you from a gay bashing?

[quote]Trump got into the party and started calling them RINO's.

It's almost like everyone was ready for somebody to just drop all pretense and tell Republicans, yes, YES, be the assholes you always wanted to be. Be the assholes you have been training to be for 40 years. Fuck all the winking and nudging and pretending. Let Your Asshole Flag Fly High and Proud!

[qoute]The real Republicans, Condoleezza Rice...

OP: Oh yes, she is a real Repig. Did you see Condi on The View yesterday? She wants to "move on" from the insurrection. Oh yes, she said it was wrong and said those involved should be held accountable. Yeah, right. Because in the very next breath, she said she wanted to move on. So what the fuck is she really saying? Typical bullshit Repig.

So many responses here are the reasons, why, for better or worse, we’re doomed against MAGA world. If you’re on their side today, that’s all that matters to them. They’re not interested in recriminations against those who may have voted for Democrats in the past. They know how to fight a war.

That is a mass of nonsense r70. Most of MAGA is entirely about their hates and their idiotic resentments. But are you trying to say that as an ex-Republican, if that is what you are saying because you are being pretty damn vague about it, but do you feel as an ex-Republican you are suffering great recriminations? What exactly? What is somebody doing to you? Please show your work.

R71, I’m not OP. I’m just someone who doesn’t think this kind of in-fighting serves our cause well. Maybe you do.

Infighting is inevitable, and clarifying, and actually entirely okay up to a point. Yes, at some point, like November of 2022, everyone should come together and resolve never to vote for any Republican ever, but before that, we can all work out our differences and argue our philosophies right here on the intertubes.

The "trying not to troll" OP cites some corrupt and deranged people among her list of GOP lovelies.

The party needs to be dissolved as being complicit in an ongoing attempt to undermine the Constitution and stage a treasonous (used advisedly) and seditious coup against the United States of America.

Unless people see it that way, this unprecedented coup, consistent with a pernicious strand of American political forces existing since before the Revolution), will do even more damage.

In general, I used to favor the policies of Republicans on fiscal and foreign policy matters. Until Bush 43, who took deficit spending to unprecedented heights. But I have *always* voted for Democrats running for federal offices because of social policies. I hate paying high taxes as much as anybody else, and as a resident of Los Angeles, I pay a ton in taxes. But for me, progressive social policies will always trump personal wealth. It's the price we pay to live in a "first-world" society. On balance, our taxes are far below other "first-world" countries and it shows.

OP, I understand why you might consider voting Republican and, apparently, have until recently. It shows that you value your personal well being more than that of society as a whole. Sad.

[quote] Do you mean to say, "boor," [R61]?

NO

Gay republicans have issues I just don’t have the time to deal with. It’s bad enough with neo liberals.

you don't deserve rights OP for ever being republican

OP, and others similarly situated, I hereby welcome you to our big-tent (hopefully majority) party.

I wonder what OP's take is on all the hostility towards him? Can he understand why we LOATHE republicans, and especially gay republicans?

R80 “we” who? The royal we?

Human Beings, R81. I doubt you’re really not that obtuse, R81, and this your attempt at humor. If not, you’re no different than OP, and should just spend more time at your local library, and les time on Faux News, OAN, and Newsmax.

*less, not “les.”

Trump's rise to the presidency didn't happen in a vacuum. The extreme political partisanship and brinkmanship to win at all costs regardless of the issues is a Republican motif since the 1990s. They would conduct scorched earth politics regardless of norms and precedent and how it would effect the country in order to retain and/or gain power. The fact that the bar was lowered so much that unqualified individuals such as Sarah Palin were considered acceptable candidates for the executive branch. Equally important was that the Republican Party accepted the extreme (and racist) tea party, which is basically just a more current and better funded version of the John Birch Society, into their fold. In the 1960s the Republicans knew that the John Birch Society would only poison the party and the country, so they banished them and their party. Trump was someone who found a party ripe for manipulating and fed off it and it's voters. The Republican Party basically vomited up Trump.

I think many here would be more sympathetic to a reformed murderer than to a reformed Republican.

Lots of guys on DL are just haters. They hate the woke left and moderate Republicans. They just hate. It's also like their views are all from no date later than Clinton's first term.

Of course, R85. Most murderers bag only one person. Rarely more.

How many people have been killed by Republican policies? Just start with the war in Afghanistan and build from there.

Republican is just a label, OP that doesn't tell us how you will be voting in the future. Do you see yourself continuing to vote for a majority of Republican in future elections? or have you gone anti Republican and will vote for non of them. What will be your level of support for Republican candidates?

How is gay rights not about domestic policy, which you claim to care about? You also said that you care about international issues - so do you think the Republican policy of trying to conquer the Middle East has been a success or did it actually made things worse as well as cost the American tax payer trillions?

As for economic policy, if you're rich, okay, you got it there. But the average small business owner still pays a lot more tax than people who inherited money like Trump or corporations like Amazon/FB.

R24, who the fuck cares? What are his policies? How is he implementing them? I hate the personality politics.

[quote]In the wise words of Republican

I tried OP. I really tried. But you lost me there.

[quote] How many people have been killed by Republican policies?

And I bet you voted for Kerry, Hillary & Biden, each of whom was complicit for the Iraq invasion.

[quote] Just start with the war in Afghanistan and build from there.

Right, the war Obama running for president in '08 said was the "good" one.

John Kerry wanted us out of Iraq. I loved John Kerry. The US messed up by electing Bush for a second time.

of course they did

R93, like Hillary & Biden, Kerry voted to grant Bush the authority to unilaterally attack Iraq.

Newt Gingrich becoming Speaker of the House is 100% responsible for the modern day "Republicans."

That would be convenient for you, R96. If only it were true.

Start with Barry Goldwater and the John Birch Society. Go all the way back to Brown v. Board of Education. They all have a role to play in the direction the Republican Party took and has only refined over the years.

But it really goes back to the moment when President Eisenhower placed the Arkansas National Guard under federal control to enforce the integration of the Arkansas schools when Governor Orville Faubus would not. That's really when the GOP made its deal with the devil of overt racism and States' Rights.

I still like him R95.

I do wish Hillary and Biden had been braver, but the war with Iraq happened 100% because Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld wanted it to happen. Whatever the real reason for it will only ever be known by them I fear. Oil was certainly part of it, but there are just so much easier ways to get oil and I'm sure a desperate Hussein would have made whatever deal would avert that invasion.

You can fault the Dems for not being braver when it really counted, but the war itself was 100% a Republican political operation, the manipulated intelligence, the brow beating, the lying, the fear mongering. All of it a Republican production and everyone involved should have been hounded out of public life forever.

Yes, let's stop pretending the Dems were the main instigators of the Iraq war. Bush, Cheney, Conde, etc all made it happen. The Dems' support was the frosting on the cake.

The GOP lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction and the imminent threat of Iraq. Those lies were fed systematically to the media. Heck, even I was convinced we should go to war.

The GOP always is able to twist their hated stances on to Dems--from DADT, DOMA, to the Iraq War. Soon they will turn their opposition to Climate Change legislation on the Dems : "Obama and Biden didn't do anything to stop climate change!"

R75 hasn't spent much time looking at GOP "fiscal and foreign policy matters," since there hasn't been a cogent Republican fiscal policy integrated with social equity spending nor a foreign policy that was not authoritarian, dishonest, antithetical to American values and cracked.

Reagan? Fuck that. He broke us for short-term gains and then drove us worse with his militarism, and the party would still blow his dead corpse if they could get to it, including Trump. Nixon? Revisit that tornado of silk and nitro. Eisenhower?

That's a little too far back, don't you think? Or are you going to cite Lincoln and Teddy as Republicans with Republican Congresses united with them.

And the GOP establishment during and between those administrations were split between the lunatics in charge of the party now and a larger share of "give a little to the others while I get more of my own" "moderate" Republicans of the last 70+ years.

The GOP has only one purpose: Make the rich even richer.

Once you understand that, you'll realize every single policy: tax, war, healthcare, etc. is made this that in mind.

R99 I think the real reasons for the war were twofold: one that the war economy is huge for the US. War makes capitalists a lot of money - producing and selling weapons, military equipment, planes, ships, tanks, and so on. The largest defense contractors are mostly American - Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, etc. Secondly it was a power move after 9/11. Bush framed things as 'good and evil' but it was really about swinging their dick and showing that they could do it. Annie Leibovitz's portrait of the smugness represents that for me.

And, R103, don’t lose sight of the fact that, after 9/11, when our enemy wasn’t a definable nation-state, the American public overwhelmingly was in favor of it.

R104 Yeah, emotions were on a high after 9/11 and people wanted 'revenge'; were also misled by the leaders that it would be an 'easy win'. I still find it telling a fact that most of the terrorist plane hijackers were from Saudi Arabia yet Iraq was attacked while Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest sponsor of terrorism, still has not been..

I am Saddam Hussein's Supergun.

Which was never built.

I remember the Saudis wanted to get into weapons manufacturing, probably to invest in a new economic leg after fossils are done with the sustainable energy movement.

And it dawned on me that it's probably a good idea that the US has a say in who gets weapons and who doesn't. Yes it's a dirty and immoral industry, but in the hands of some Muslim dictatorship, or Russia or China it would be the end of the world as we know it.

R107 so why didn't they bomb and attack Saudi Arabia to bring down that regime then? Reminder: not a single 9/11 terrorist was Iraqi, Afghan, or Iranian.. Osama bin Laden was also born in Saudi Arabia and a citizen of SA until 1994.

Because the Middle East is a good client for weapon sales. They've been fighting for centuries over who has the right interpretation of Muhammad's words.

R109 That doesn't make sense. I just checked and you said in R107 that Saudi Arabia was looking into manufacturing weapons and that the US would rather have a say in who gets weapons or not. So as a direct competitor, the Americans would have logically wanted to nix them. Especially if 15 out of the 19 9/11 plane hijackers were Saudi Arabians...

But I think it was really about $$$. The Saudis, mega-rich from oil money, still pay out plenty of money to US defense contractor companies like Lockheed Martin (of whom Dick Cheney was on the board of directors). Of course, Iraq, Afghanistan and co weren't doing that.. so they were the easy targets.

Weapons sales to the Saudis are in the hundreds of billions.

[quote]Weapons sales to the Saudis are in the hundreds of billions.

Paid for with the hard-earned money from the pockets of working US citizens who were over charged for the fucking Saudi oil.