Burnt Offerings

What is weird about Karen Black's eyes?

Cross-eyed? No pupils?

That's DL icon Karen Black, R1.

So creepy

Bette Davis chewing up the scenery.

"BENJY! BENJY!"

We watched this all the time when I was a kid. Part of my family's canon.

The whole point of the chauffeur is to be creepy.

I saw this movie as a kid when it opened. I remember leaving the theater nauseated by its relentless darkness. I don't mind dark horror films but the way this was done left me disgusted.

To Ben chauffeur at his mother's funeral represented death. Image haunted the boy ever since that event particularly when he was ill or trying to sleep.

Malevolent spirt in then current form of Mrs. Allardyce knew this and used it to "her" advantage by tormenting Ben, provoking violent emotions, pain and suffering in the boy.

In Judaism burnt offerings were small animals burnt on an altar as a sacrifice. By extension of course the animals were dead, and via each human death "Mrs. Allardyce" claims victims (unwillingly) have become a sacrifice but to another purpose. Hence all those pictures in frames, those are poor souls who over years have been lured to their deaths at that home.

There is a scene in the book where Marian breaks down outside Mrs. Allardyce's room saying she has nothing left to give and the door opens to reveal the ghost of Mrs Allardyce, who looks at Marian with blazing eyes and possesses her, "burning everything out of her—grief and affection and memory—burning it out finally, until there was nothing".

Book IMHO was better than film....

There's a dreary air about this whole movie.

I thought it would be more campy, less dreadful

Not one of Bette's better film appearances, regardless of it being one of her later-stage career performances, IMO.

Karen Black's suggestion of attempts at acting talent appeared missing in this movie.

Agree about Reed. I thought that the actor who portrayed the son was annoying, though.

I always get this movie mixed up with The Hearse starring Trish Van Devere. Is The Hearse worth watching?

Bette Davis thought her co-star Reed was 'odious' and She didn't think Black paid her enough respect.

When EVERYONE around you is an asshole, Miss Bette Davis, it might be time to look at yourself.

I saw this for the first time only recently on Prime. I thought it was quite good; Bette Davis is very watchable, but the Mum (Karen Black?) was very irritating.

The house is the real star of this film! The Dunsmuir House in Oakland, CA.

The creepy actor who played the chauffeur died not too long ago.

I just looked up Karen Black. I didn't know she was dead of cancer!

She looked like a beautiful lioness w/her wonky eye.

[quote]The house is the real star of this film! The Dunsmuir House in Oakland, CA.

The house rejuvenates itself. The old shingles fall off and are replaced with new ones.

Ha! Karen Black looks like a lioness and Oliver Reed looks like a monkey man

I think this was the movie where she berated some production assistant and the guy went to go puke afterwards.

When Bette was told of this, she remarked that she had hoped he took a shit as well, since he was full of it when he talked to her.

Oliver Reed was constantly drunk during the making of this film, you can't blame Bette for being irritated by that.

R20 he doesn't look well at all in the film. Not surprised.

Oliver Reed was drunk for every film he made

In between "Easy Rider" and the first "Star Wars," downbeat stories with downbeat endings were very cool.

I always get "The Hearse" mixed up with "The Car".

Who doesn't, R 24.

r19, To which the PA answered "What? A dump?"

Oliver Reed was hot as hell. The movie is one of the creepiest I've ever seen. It really gets under my skin which, for a PG movie, is quite an accomplishment. That shows real skill. The thing that always haunted me the most about the film were all the photographs of the other families who stayed at the house. There's something really creepy about their expressions in those pictures.

I was a little kid when I first saw it and was traumatized by all that happens to the little boy in the film. Lee H. Montgomery grew up to be hot in the 80s

Lee H. Montgomery seemed to specialize in playing really annoying children.

"I always get "The Hearse" mixed up with "The Car"."

I'd prefer to get picked up by a car.

R16

Karen Black came along at just right time in Hollywood. Miss Black had a rocking body with great rack, but her flaws (wonky eyes) actually made her more realistic for many roles in "New Hollywood" films like Easy Rider.

Unlike previous bombshells, sexpots, etc... of old Hollywood films Ms. Black having a few flaws in her beauty made her more realistic, and seen likely as a woman most average guys stood a chance of getting.

Whatever she had it worked for Ms. Black. Her career was varied and rather longer than many would have otherwise thought.

Reed was pretty buff in that picture...big arms, huge chest....mmmmm

IIRC Oliver Reed was a big sort of man overall. Remember seeing him for first time watching film "Oliver!" and thinking he was a big brute as Bill Sikes.

[quote] Karen Black's suggestion of attempts at acting talent appeared missing in this movie.

How very DARE you.

Black is a legend. She was also, somewhat privately, a singer songwriter. Her home tape reels were restored and select songs were released on vinyl earlier this year by musician (and her friend at the end of her life) Cass McCombs. I have the vinyl. She wrote all the songs except for a bonus track (or two?) at the end, and plays guitar on all except the last one. Actually a really great singer (though I’m sure some Broadway elderqueen on here will disagree with my assessment; whatever.)

The kid in this film— was he also in the TV movie Dead of Night (1977), a trilogy of vignettes, where the last one is about a lost (and presumed dead) son who comes back one stormy night to torment his mother? I think he was also in an episode of Columbo playing a “boy genius” who built a robot and becomes a witness in a murder investigation. Unless I’m confusing him for someone else.

[quote]The whole point of the chauffeur is to be creepy.

I knew a guy who looked very much like this character. He was the mortician at the funeral I had an after school job at. And at times drove the hearse with a similar uniform.

It's a shame that a great talent and legend like Bette Davis had to do dreck like this in her later career.

"It's clearly upset Kate"

Bloated Reed was only 53 here, but could pass for 80.

R36

Well when you have that daughter and rest of family sponging on you what else was there for Ms. Davis to do?

For her long life and career one would have assumed Bette Davis could have retired after golden age of Hollywood and studio system was over. That or be comfortable enough financially that she was secure enough only take work that was of interest. But no, at time of her death Bette Davis only left an estate of between $1 to $2 million USD.

True r38. Davis supported her entire family. Her mother and sister until they both died, and then of course her bitch daughter BD. BD and her husband were lazy leeches and Bette kept them at an upper-middle class level for many years. Her family just drained her dry.

I’m cackling at the pairing of male chauvinist Reed and feminist Millett.

I’m impressed at how willing Davis was to look her absolute worst in this. Can you imagine vain Crawford allowing herself to be filmed with no makeup and a sweaty gray wig? The scene where she’s contorted in bed and moaning like a dying animal is hard to watch. If you’ve ever dealt with a sick/dying elderly relative it was all too realistic.

Yes, horrifying R41. She didn’t look much better in The Watcher In The Woods 4 years later. Bless her.

Davis was never afraid to look like complete shit in a film if it was appropriate for the character. She was an anomaly among her generation of star actresses.

You can see Oliver Reed's and Alan Bates's rockin' younger bodies in Women in Love. The famous nude wrestling scene still gives me a boner.

Vivacious Aunt Elizabeth becomes "Mrs. Allardyce's" first victim. The House kills her slowly by sucking the life and vitality out of aunt Elizabeth.

Before she dies aunt Elizabeth tries to get out of bed and we hear a "crack" sound. That was her bones breaking because they no longer could support body weight. In book Aunt Elizabeth is described shortly before her death as looking like a skeleton with pale and translucent skin. Mrs. Allardyce's work again, there's nothing left of the once full of life Aunt Elizabeth but a shell.

True, r42. Davis generally looked pretty bad in this era. I think she must have been buying her wigs out of the back of a magazine. Did she not have a gay companion to style her better?

She should have snatched one of Helen Lawson's stylish wigs.

Yes, Bette's wig game was always pretty bad. The Dead Ringer wig was one of the ugliest wigs in the history of the world, and she wore it in her private life for awhile afterwards.

Bette's wigs in the 70s were also unfortunate.

The son played SJP’s love interest in “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun”!

Karen Black is a goddess.

She had good help on "Death on the Nile" (1978). Great hair and costumes all around.

Bette had a full facelift in the late 70s that definitely improved her appearance, but the damage from smoking and drinking couldn't be fully erased. The booze and cigs really did a number on her looks.

I have always liked this film. Great setting, great casting, great film. It's classic horror and no one dies better that Bette Davis.

It's not just a presence in the house bitches, it IS the house! Go watch it.

This movie is a slow burn. It was an inspiration for Stephen King's "The Shining".

Makes a great double feature with The Sentinel. Burgess Meredith plays a flaming queen in that one, too!

The Sentinel is good up to a point, then I feel it just becomes ridiculous. Stoops to a level Burnt Offerings doesn’t, despite what the couple of detractors here say about it.

The kid grew up to be a gay hottie.

Is he really gay? ^^

Oliver Reed's drinking capacity was un-fucking-believable, his Wiki page goes into detail about it. In one sitting, he drank quantities of alcohol that were enough to get three grown men drunk on their asses.

Reed was an embittered twat with anger management issues. He was decent-looking for five seconds when he was younger. But he could act.

The house also crops up as the California mansion in "View to a Kill".

R60 It’s also in Phantasm!

I always thought Reed's big freakout at the end when he discovers "Mrs. Allardyce" was really well done. For such a butch man's man type, he really went for it and looks legitimately terrified.

Those horrible wigs or wig on Bette Davis in Burnt Offerings may likely have resulted from her insistence on wearing that same quasi pageboy hair style for ages. Studio had a decent budget but to purchase a very expensive wig, then cut and style it in such a way it couldn't be used again (except for Bette Davis, haha), doesn't seem very economical.

Thus BD either likely brought her own, or something lower priced was used so there wasn't much loss if the thing(s) couldn't be used again.

BD of course came up through the studio system days of Golden Hollywood where entire departments were often devoted to wigs/hair styling. Actresses as employees of studios always had to look their best in public so letting them have access to wigs from studio wasn't a huge deal IIRC. It all was written off as a business expense anyway.

While not exactly a tax credit, BD could have written off cost of good wigs on her tax returns long as they involved business or her work. But again those children and family of hers were sucking BD dry, so the poor woman had to put herself together best she could I suppose.

Katharine Hepburn was smart never to have children. She knew she would've been a terrible mother and had no regrets. She remained a wealthy woman to the day she died. Bette should've done the same.

R64

And her estate ended up going to the lesbian newscaster she "adopted" or whatever. Didn't Katherine Hepburn have any survivors, even distant relations?

Hollywood film starts of Bette Davis's era were all over the place when it came to their children. Joan Crawford certainly wasn't put into poor house by taking on her brood.

Because Joan didn't support them as adults, like Bette did. Joan also didn't support her mother or brother like Bette did with her mother and sister.

Katharine Hepburn had a bunch of nieces and nephews but apparently they had their own money.

Greta Garbo left her entire estate, which was worth millions, to her niece. Lucky bitch.

[quote]Because Joan didn't support them as adults, like Bette did.

For reasons that are well known to them.

The business is still pretty bad for older actresses these days, but back then it was really awful. The ones who had enough $$$ either through marriage or wise investments like Gene Tierney, Greer Garson and a host of others decided they would rather just retire than still slog around Hollywood.

Bette was in her 40s when BD was born. She had several abortions prior to that and probably thought it was now or never.

Even Gar$on couldn't say no to "The Love Boat"!

[quote]At time of her death Bette Davis only left an estate of between $1 to $2 million USD.

I've read it wasn't even that much: around $800,000.

Silly fools, they should have married well like I did...

R71

Numbers thrown around range from "around" $1 million to "between" $1-$2 million. Have read BD's estate was low as $600k, so $800k wouldn't be a shock either.

Bette Davis was supposed to receive $250,000 for five weeks week on her final picture, Wicked Stepmother, but quit after the first week and only got $50,000.

Gary Merrill died several months after BD and left a trust fund for Margo Merrill (his daughter) managed by Michael Merrill. For the record Gary Merrill didn't leave much of an estate either, numbers passed around are about same as for Bette Davis, between $1 to $2 million USD

Likely Gary Merrill knew or suspected BD had very little towards end of her life so someone had to provide for Margo Merrill who was disabled. Michael Merrill also received most of BD's estate so between his father and mother both himself and Margo benefitted most. Which again considering Margo Merrill's condition is as things should have been.

Link below gives pretty good summary of BD's estate and who got what.

It’s on Comet channel right now. I have seen it before and never liked it.

Roger Ebert called this movie silly trash.

I love this movie, though I think it's a campy mess. They are the 4 most unlikely family members ever. I love the part were Oliver is in the chair & can't move & Karen is just blathering on and you know he just wants to choke the life out of her. Betty Davis's scenes when her bones are breaking are borderline hysterical. It's a hot mess - and I think it was directed by Dan Curtis, who also directed DL favorite Dark Shadows, no?

There is a scene where the dad pretends he’s a child molester chasing his son through the woods saying “hello little boy would you like some candy”. WTF!

Karen Black has one of the weirdest faces I’ve ever seen. It’s almost like she could turn into a monster and grow fangs at any moment.

Bette Davis’ hairstyle was UGLY

The soft focus lenses were off putting

Is Lee Montgomery really gay? He was quite handsome as a young man, and if I may say so, he had cock-sucking lips.

Bette's publicity photo for this was certainly a step up.

This was the same year as Miss Bette Davis Sings!

#burntpussy

Great film. Nice home.

The Dunsmuir family had a strange habit of dying before they could take up residence in their beautifully designed and built homes. I've toured at least two--Dunsmuir House and Craigdarroch Castle (son and father) and they are both gorgeous and well proportioned.

No idea about Hatley Castle, though other than in the films it's been shown in.

R81 that was one of the worst albums ever made.

Just for you, R84.

Bette Davis, dear dead favorite actress…. It was wrong of you to record an album of songs when you knew you could not sing. You purposely used your late-in-life speaking voice to maximum effect offending the music buying public’s sensibility.

Carrying a tune was never her forte.

I watched this movie as a very young child and it greatly disturbed and depressed me. It is one of a very few BD movies that I refuse to watch again.

Isn't this the one where there was a creepy scene in the swimming pool?

That pool had to be removed, as it was not sound.

The house used in the movie was also used in Phantasm.

R90 only the exterior for Phantasm, I believe.

The Bond film and Burnt Offerings shot inside.

I watched this recently and rather enjoyed it. I blame some of that on how hot Oliver Reed was. I read that the original ending in the book is the pool scene and that Karen Black's character doesn't break the window to try and save her son.

So i'm glad the director gave Burnt Offerings a different ending. The book version is too depressing.

I'm around the same age as Lee Montgomery and couldn't stand him in this on the big screen when I saw it soon after its premiere. Found it very disappointing that Bette got demolished by a coffin, yet Lee survived. I wanted to see Bette reenact Charlotte and push a massive planter off the balcony, crushing drunken Oliver Reed and vapid Karen Black, then watch gleefully as the little brat drowns in the pool while Eileen Heckart and Burgess Meredith come back to claim the house.

As a kid I remember being genuinely scared of the Chauffeur.

Lee H. Montgomery, the kid from Burnt Offerings, today.

He's still cute. I would ask him out.

Sorry I can't help myself

I have a question about the ending. If Mrs. Allardyce is a ghost and now inhabiting the body of Marian (Karen Black), what happened to the previous woman who was “Mrs. Allardyce”?

I love how B.D. didn't go Norma Desmond and hide away, or give up and check into the Hollywood Memorial Retirement Home. Bitch worked til she dropped.

Bette Davis was great on talk shows in the 80s. As old and feeble as she was, she still radiated STAR. No one today can do that.

[quote]What was the point of the chauffeur?

Didn't he have a great body in real life, despite the creepy face?

R101 he was 6’6” and lanky

The point of the chauffeur stemmed from the director’s real life encounter with a chauffeur laughing outside a funeral when he was a kid.

This thread makes me want to seek out the original book for more backstory and details. Yes, I know it has a more ambiguous ending that’s different from the movie.

I've tried to watch this awful movie a few times since I was a kid. I could never make it all the way, through. It's got to be one of the dullest horror movies I've ever seen. I do agree that Oliver Reed was handsome, though.

A part of me was happy they rehabbed the house. As a kid, I wasn’t invested in the family, but I loved the house!

I like the way the house takes care of Lee H. Montgomery by dumping a chimney on him.

THUD!

[quote]As old and feeble as she was, she still radiated STAR.

And in Patrick Kelly!

Bette Davis likely drank in her trailer every day while making this.

R106 “The house takes care of itself.”

I saw this on tv as a kid when I home alone. It scared the hell out of me.

R110 the pool scenes and the ending scene when Karen Black turns around are more powerful than I remembered.

[quote] r2 DL icon Karen Black… She can land airplanes with no flying experience, despite being cross-eyed

EXCUSE me ? ! ?