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Manchin Tells Associates He's Considering Leaving the Democratic Party and Has an Exit Plan

In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for his departure.

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by Anonymousreply 205October 22, 2021 3:32 PM

But the Dems have been strong armed into cutting the bill.

by Anonymousreply 1October 20, 2021 7:15 PM

[quote]But the Dems have been strong armed into cutting the bill.

Not enough for Manchin, apparently. This is a strategic leak aimed to pressure Dems to fold further.

by Anonymousreply 2October 20, 2021 7:18 PM

Unless he caucuses with Mitch, who cares?

by Anonymousreply 3October 20, 2021 7:18 PM

Leaving a party he never attended.

ok.

by Anonymousreply 4October 20, 2021 7:23 PM

WTF does this one pos from a fucking shit state with no money and population smaller than NYC alone get to dictate to the rest of us ANYTHING? His state has contributed NOTHING. None of the money he wants to control is from his state. We're fucking stuck in the past because fucking coal miners and the rest of these conservative fuckheads can't move the fuck on and realize they are losers with an antiquated skill-set and a mentality to go with it. They literally want to reverse time while the rest of the world moves forward. including so-called "third world" nations where even they are looking to renewable energy.

You want to bitch about immigrants coming here? People who actually want to get educated and be productive. It's these fucking white, "real 'murican" assholes who will be the death of this country. They refuse to accept the world is leaving them behind.

by Anonymousreply 5October 20, 2021 7:24 PM

This is a sad day for America. There is no reason that bill can’t pass except a few rich people don’t want it.

by Anonymousreply 6October 20, 2021 7:25 PM

Part of me wants to believe that this story got leaked so Twitter would explode in a chorus of "Bye, Bitch".

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by Anonymousreply 7October 20, 2021 7:27 PM

R6, perhaps if idiots with no money living in red states, put their prejudice aside to recognize the GOP doesn't do shit for them, we could actually get these things done.

by Anonymousreply 8October 20, 2021 7:27 PM
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by Anonymousreply 9October 20, 2021 7:31 PM

Doesn't anybody have compromising photos of Romney or Susan or something?

Lyndon B would have known how to strong-arm one of these bastards. Or Harry Reid! oh how I miss him.

by Anonymousreply 10October 20, 2021 7:37 PM

I think a compromising picture of Romney is him doing anything other than missionary.

by Anonymousreply 11October 20, 2021 7:39 PM

Not in the least bit surprising and quite honestly, would probably help the Democrats in a number of ways. It shelves the corporate infrastructure bill, which would have been a disaster for our climate without offsets in the reconciliation bill. It gets the party to stop sniping at each other and focus on unifying things instead. It allows the Democrats to put off responsibility for not legislating and gives emphasis to their push to get more senate seats, even though they will just find another scapegoat like Mark Warner if they buck historical precedent and do that. It will allow them to put the blame on Mitch McConnell if there is a default on the debt ceiling. All in all, at this rate, it's the best way forward and will probably blunt losses in the midterm. The only problem comes down to confirmations and judicial appointments, but other than that, nothing else was getting done anyway and Breyer has made it clear he doesn't give a fuck about the country, re: retirement.

by Anonymousreply 12October 20, 2021 7:39 PM

R10, I got called a troll for saying I'm disgusted by Schumer being so weak. I'm a friggin NYC taxpayer. I'm watching hicks from leech red states act like they're the ones who pay the bills for this country. Schumer is weak. He's a cutting ribbons senator. We need a cut the brakes on your car senator.

by Anonymousreply 13October 20, 2021 7:41 PM

I hope this happens. We desperately need a third party. The two parties have too many sacred cows. I wonder who he would caucus with.

by Anonymousreply 14October 20, 2021 7:45 PM

Ooooo! Video!

He S-P-E-L-L-E-D it!

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by Anonymousreply 15October 20, 2021 7:53 PM

Manchin is not changing parties.

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by Anonymousreply 16October 20, 2021 7:54 PM

You know why it's bullshit? Because as Dem, he's a big fish. It's very rare to get so many meetings with the president. As a Republican, he's just another tool.

He LOVES the power he has right now and the media attention it garners. He's scum.

by Anonymousreply 17October 20, 2021 7:56 PM

The weird thing too, r5, is a lot of WV survives on government handouts and wouldn't balk at getting more. Something like free community college would actually help his base gain skill sets that would allow them to move on from coal...which would be a problem for the coal companies.

by Anonymousreply 18October 20, 2021 7:59 PM

[quote]You know why it's bullshit? Because as Dem, he's a big fish. It's very rare to get so many meetings with the president. As a Republican, he's just another tool.

Not to mention he'd likely just get primaried and replaced by a Qtard.

by Anonymousreply 19October 20, 2021 8:00 PM

Vote. Vote like it is the most important thing in your life.

by Anonymousreply 20October 20, 2021 8:02 PM

I think somebody leaked this on purpose...

Schumer or Pelosi? They need to get the progressives in their caucuses to back down but they don't want to be seen as caving.

by Anonymousreply 21October 20, 2021 8:03 PM

You guys. He is really going to do this. This amount of detail is not just a rumor:

“He told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the party. First, he would send a letter to Sen. Chuck Schumer, the top Senate Democrat, removing himself from the Democratic leadership of the Senate. (He is vice chair of the Senate Democrats’ policy and communications committee.)

Manchin hopes that would send a signal. He would then wait and see if that move had any impact on the negotiations. After about a week, he said, he would change his voter registration from Democrat to independent.”

by Anonymousreply 22October 20, 2021 8:03 PM

Which is why, R18, they fight culture wars and demonize AOC. Voters like the policies so the politicians manipulate them into hating those who provide them.

Just like the people of West Virginia overwhelmingly approved of every single component of the Affordable Care Act but LOATHED Obamacare.

by Anonymousreply 23October 20, 2021 8:03 PM

He has massive power now. But if the Dems lose the Senate or gain two more Senators, he'll have very little.

I'm not sure how me voting in NY will have any effect on West Virginia or Arizona.

by Anonymousreply 24October 20, 2021 8:04 PM

Lol Mary @ r23, nobody anywhere approved of “every single component” of the Affordable Care Act, except maybe the insurers who made record profits off of it. It was, is, and always will be a total mess that expanded coverage but made insurance vastly more expensive.

by Anonymousreply 25October 20, 2021 8:08 PM

Adios, mother fucker. See you at the Battle of Hell's Kitchen.

by Anonymousreply 26October 20, 2021 8:10 PM

R25 i get his point though. WV loves the ACA but hates Obamacare. 🤷‍♂️.

And the Black Lung folks would cut a bitch if you tried to take away their govt subsidized healthcare specific to coal miners.

by Anonymousreply 27October 20, 2021 8:12 PM

Does r22 sound like a rumor to you?

No, it sounds like a colleague ratted him out to David Corn.

This is for real.

by Anonymousreply 28October 20, 2021 8:12 PM

This guy and his chum Sinema are thwarting the agenda of a president that 81 million Americans voted for. Policies that would be considered essential and unremarkable in any other developed country are somehow controversial. And far too ‘progressive’ for Manchin and his co-conspirator. Both of whom have obvious conflicts of interest and massive financial incentives to act as they are acting. They are granting Joe Biden audiences. The sooner they return to well deserved obscurity the better.

by Anonymousreply 29October 20, 2021 8:14 PM

R29 not true. A lot of those voters were moderates and conservatives who just wanted to get rid of Trump. That doesn’t mean they were voting for free education, housing, and healthcare for trans refugees.

by Anonymousreply 30October 20, 2021 8:17 PM

What a douchebag.

by Anonymousreply 31October 20, 2021 8:44 PM

Yeah, r30, that's the problem with this election...it truly was a coalition of voters that gave Biden the win. Remove any one group and we'd be looking at Trump for another 4 years.

Personally speaking, I'd cut back on some of the child care. Either go with a credit or universal pre-k but not both. Or if you're going with both then limit the tax credit to number of children or on a decreasing scale after the second. We shouldn't be encouraging big families until climate change and scarce resource management is worked out.

I also don't think means testing is a bad thing. Jaypal's claim about too much paperwork would discourage people was a bullshit reason for being against means testing.

by Anonymousreply 32October 20, 2021 8:51 PM

R32 sounds reasonable to me.

So much of this is about posturing. The $1.75 trillion that Manchin is agreeing to would have been unheard of 2 years ago. So the people saying that’s not good enough and posturing for more are overplaying their hand IMO, which is why someone probably leaked this rumor.

by Anonymousreply 33October 20, 2021 9:00 PM

Manchin knows if he switched to R - he’d get primaried and lose.

If he switched to I no primary but he and the D candidate would split the vote paving the way for and R to take the seat.

He’s stuck and Biden should call his bluff.

by Anonymousreply 34October 20, 2021 9:01 PM

Both groups are in danger of overplaying, r33. If this ends in a stalemate then both are going have to explain to their constituents why they got nothing.

[quote]If he switched to I no primary but he and the D candidate would split the vote paving the way for and R to take the seat.

It wouldn't matter what party he's with. He'd still win. He's like what Murtha was to PA... they get by on name.

by Anonymousreply 35October 20, 2021 9:07 PM

This happens from time to time - one party going to the other.

We will survive just fine.

by Anonymousreply 36October 20, 2021 9:12 PM
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by Anonymousreply 37October 20, 2021 9:14 PM

Just enjoy the temporary reprieve from permanent one-party rule.

by Anonymousreply 38October 20, 2021 9:17 PM

he is a big fucking TRAITOR. HE is fucking over the American People. They say he has a two step exit, i hope it is 2 steps off a cliff. Climate change is real. We need DEMOCRATIC BILLS PASSED NOW. Fuck this guy.

by Anonymousreply 39October 20, 2021 9:18 PM

The story has already been debunked, indicating that David Corn made it up. I’m not sure how Corn thought that inventing such a story was going to help.

by Anonymousreply 40October 20, 2021 9:19 PM

R40, it’s the media equivalent of chasing him into the bathroom. Basically, you act like a crazy spouse trying to make the other spouse declare fidelity as a way of shutting the crazy down. But all you really are doing is chasing the sane person away.

by Anonymousreply 41October 20, 2021 9:24 PM

I don’t think it was made up. The amount of detail and the way the article is trying not to out the source.

I’m thinking some dem staffers turned him in. Good for them.

by Anonymousreply 42October 20, 2021 9:24 PM

You think a denial by a politician equals a debunking, R40? It might be true and it might be not, but Manchin's denial means nothing.

by Anonymousreply 43October 20, 2021 9:25 PM

“In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for his departure.”

“Manchin has been in the center of a wild rush of negotiations with his fellow Democrats and the White House over a possible compromise regarding Biden’s ambitious Build Back Better package, and Manchin’s opposition to key provisions—including Medicare and Medicaid expansion, an expanded child tax credit, and measures to address climate change—has been an obstacle that the Democrats have yet to overcome. As these talks have proceeded, Manchin has discussed bolting from the Democratic Party—perhaps to place pressure on Biden and Democrats in these negotiations.”

by Anonymousreply 44October 20, 2021 9:26 PM

His press secretary denied none of this.

by Anonymousreply 45October 20, 2021 9:26 PM

“He told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the party. First, he would send a letter to Sen. Chuck Schumer, the top Senate Democrat, removing himself from the Democratic leadership of the Senate. (He is vice chair of the Senate Democrats’ policy and communications committee.) Manchin hopes that would send a signal. He would then wait and see if that move had any impact on the negotiations. After about a week, he said, he would change his voter registration from Democrat to independent.”

by Anonymousreply 46October 20, 2021 9:26 PM

100% r5

by Anonymousreply 47October 20, 2021 9:27 PM

“Manchin told associates that he was prepared to initiate his exit plan earlier this week and had mentioned the possibility to Biden.”

You don’t put that kind of detail in an article if it is made up. He even told Biden of his threats.

by Anonymousreply 48October 20, 2021 9:27 PM

Apparently, Manchin denied it R45...not to be mistaken for a comment on whether or not he's being truthful.

by Anonymousreply 49October 20, 2021 9:28 PM

“In his talks with Sanders and Democratic legislators, Manchin has said that they should be willing to accept his $1.75 trillion offer and continue to fight for the social and climate change programs he doesn’t support and make these campaign issues in 2022 and 2024, as they try to elect more Democrats. Half of a bill is better than none, he has advised. “

“Manchin told associates that he is hopeful a compromise that creates an overall framework for the bill can be reached by the end of this week—but at no more than the $1.75 trillion he supports. He has said that he believes if a deal is not attained on the social infrastructure package, he expects to be blamed and receive a ton of criticism.”

by Anonymousreply 50October 20, 2021 9:29 PM

Manchin is a consistent liar.

I believe David Corn.

by Anonymousreply 51October 20, 2021 9:29 PM

Manchin is a piece of shit and wants to take his marbles and go home if he doesn't get his way...all to the detriment of the country.

Manchin knows that his decision could embolden Trump to reenter the presidential race, end all investigations into Trump's tax evasion, end the investigation into the Jan 6 insurrection and give rise to McConnell and McCarthy.

This maybe a rumor, but it has very serious consequences, and Manchin is trying to sabotage the entire country if true or if it's even a threat.

by Anonymousreply 52October 20, 2021 9:42 PM

R38 there is no temporary reprieve. The Washington Uniparty is undefeated.

by Anonymousreply 53October 20, 2021 9:42 PM

I don’t think this was just a rumor. Where are people getting that this was a rumor?

You see the details in the article. There is no way this was a rumor. Not sure where that is coming from.

by Anonymousreply 54October 20, 2021 9:45 PM

This is Manchin we’re talking about. His vehement denials just confirm that the story is true.

by Anonymousreply 55October 20, 2021 10:15 PM

So the report says Manchin will become an Independent. He'll be useless and have no power unless he remains caucusing with the Democrats.

However, if Manchin caucuses with the Repigs, the country is in grave danger as described by R52.

by Anonymousreply 56October 20, 2021 10:20 PM

[quote] So the report says Manchin will become an Independent. He'll be useless and have no power unless he remains caucusing with the Democrats.

In a 50-50 Senate, he will have power with whichever party he caucuses, as he gets to decide who controls the Senate.

by Anonymousreply 57October 20, 2021 10:27 PM

If he leaves the Dems, he will go to a party where he has no power whatsoever

by Anonymousreply 58October 20, 2021 11:04 PM

If he caucuses with the GOP, he will be the kingmaker and will have great power since he could always switch back.

by Anonymousreply 59October 20, 2021 11:11 PM

The mystery is why all of them on both sides of the isle don't leave their party and start a couple new ones. Nothing could possibly be worse then what we have.. could it?

by Anonymousreply 60October 20, 2021 11:47 PM

I KNEW IT

by Anonymousreply 61October 20, 2021 11:54 PM

Manchin is the number 1 Google trending search atm.

This is way too much power for one man. He needs to just vote up or down on the original bill. And so be it. That is the right thing to do here. He has no right to dictate the bill.

It’s ridiculous that anyone would even entertain the idea that this one man is going to choose the number. And that his is going to unilaterally decide the fate of community college, child care and everything else that is in the bill (link).

If I were Nancy and Chuck I would call his bluff right this minute.

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by Anonymousreply 62October 21, 2021 1:11 AM

R60 yes, because that would throw control of Congress to the Republicans.

And I'm so sick of Manchin. This was a strategic leak that he later denied, but he's the one that put it out there. It's all part of the games.

I wish we didn't need Manchin's vote, but he has not been shy about letting them know nothing gets passed without his explicit approval. And we can't primary him because he's in a red state and it's unlikely any other Democrat could win there, especially not a progressive one.

Sinema is just there to keep taxes low. I hope she gets primaried out. She will run as an Independent or Republican then though. Her curstrying on the floor of the Senate still drives me crazy.

Meanwhile, he's driving the Dems favorability ratings info the toilet with this nonsense, and almost guaranteeing a Republican take over of Congress next year.

by Anonymousreply 63October 21, 2021 1:18 AM

Wel if you think about it, the progressives got these two to take off their masks fairly early on in the game. Not sure if that is their goal.

But at least we know up front what we are dealing with now.

by Anonymousreply 64October 21, 2021 1:24 AM

Is that Sinema cunt still hiding in the toilet?

by Anonymousreply 65October 21, 2021 1:26 AM

He does have all the power, and he knows it. If they want anything they have to do what he wants. There are no levers that can be held over him.

by Anonymousreply 66October 21, 2021 1:36 AM

Sick the Trumptards on him!

by Anonymousreply 67October 21, 2021 1:39 AM

If he leaves, it's because he has been assured a golden retirement after playing villain for the current administration's benefit, not to mention that his evil daughter and their corruption will go unpunished. He isn't so much pressurizing the Biden/Harris administration, but setting the stage for his own integration into the corporate elites, which he has served dutifully.

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by Anonymousreply 68October 21, 2021 1:52 AM

So now it's Biden's turn to cry.

by Anonymousreply 69October 21, 2021 1:54 AM

Definition of deplorable democrat. Along with toilet girl.

by Anonymousreply 70October 21, 2021 1:55 AM

Mother Jones is hardly your go to source for reliable information on somebody like Manchin.

Gallup -- Americans' Trust in Media Dips to Second Lowest on Record

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by Anonymousreply 71October 21, 2021 2:01 AM

Turn on Maddow

by Anonymousreply 72October 21, 2021 2:09 AM

Manchinema are whores. I can't believe Democrats can't be the highest bidder. Quit the Lisa Simpson shit and BUY the WHORES.

by Anonymousreply 73October 21, 2021 2:27 AM

[quote] The mystery is why all of them on both sides of the isle

Oh, dear…

[quote]don't leave their party and start a couple new ones. Nothing could possibly be worse then what we have.. could it?

Oh, DEAR!!!!

by Anonymousreply 74October 21, 2021 2:34 AM

r5: If that "shithole" state pulled their insurance and investment business completely out of NYC, at least 12 NYC banks and insurance companies probably would never fully recover. You are a ignoramus.

by Anonymousreply 75October 21, 2021 2:37 AM

what insurance and investment businesses are headquartered in WV, r75?

by Anonymousreply 76October 21, 2021 2:41 AM

I really doubt r75.

by Anonymousreply 77October 21, 2021 2:50 AM

I think NYc has over 1000 different banks. They will survive smh.

by Anonymousreply 78October 21, 2021 2:50 AM

oh Manchin's daughter is a real fucking peach:

"In 2007, The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that Bresch had claimed to have an MBA degree from West Virginia University, but the university disputed that.[11] The university subsequently awarded her an EMBA despite her having completed only 26 of the required 48 credits. Her father was governor of the state of West Virginia at the time.[12]"

by Anonymousreply 79October 21, 2021 2:59 AM

R75, I don't think so. The entire GDP (gross domestic product) of West Virginia is less than $73 billion, which makes it 45 out of 50 states. The 2020 GDP of New York State's financial/insurance/real estate sector alone was over $429 billion. The total 2020 GDP of New York State is $1.4 trillion.

by Anonymousreply 80October 21, 2021 3:04 AM

Fuck this rancid cunt!

Someone kick this pathetic prick right in his shriveled balls.

by Anonymousreply 81October 21, 2021 4:11 AM

The victories in Georgia may well have been a Pyrrhic victory. We might be looking at more electoral success if we were running against an obstructionist McConnell-led Senate.

by Anonymousreply 82October 21, 2021 4:19 AM

Don't even need to read past R17, who nailed it.

Fuck Manchin.

by Anonymousreply 83October 21, 2021 4:19 AM

Prescription drug coverage is in this bill. Shouldn’t he recuse himself?

by Anonymousreply 84October 21, 2021 4:21 AM

[quote][R5]: If that "shithole" state pulled their insurance and investment business completely out of NYC, at least 12 NYC banks and insurance companies probably would never fully recover. You are a ignoramus.

Oh, honey, STFU. You are fucking delusional. Laughable that you think NY is dependent on WV or KY or MS or LA or any other fucking red state that is worth shit to us. WV is worthless. Whatever money we pay to those red states, is far more than whatever we would "lose" with whatever banks/insurance you're even talking about.

In 2020, NY paid $27 BILLION *more* than what we got back. We're fucking last on the list in getting back money. So how about those WV businesses LEAVE and we get to keep whatever we send to WV and the rest of those leech states. Deal? I'll risk the loss.

by Anonymousreply 85October 21, 2021 5:01 AM

Manchin isn't the sharpest tool in the box. His legislative record is weak. He professes to care about the people of West Virginia and then finds novel ways to screw them. Maybe someone will figure out a way to sink his luxury yacht on the Potomac and send him back to the hills and hollers where he belongs..

by Anonymousreply 86October 21, 2021 5:40 AM

Of course he's been wanting to change partie$ for a long time. Those Repigs always match his price.

by Anonymousreply 87October 21, 2021 5:43 AM

Manchin was a quite successful two term governor. Apparently there is a sharp enough a tool in that box to bring Biden and Schumer to their knees.

by Anonymousreply 88October 21, 2021 6:25 AM

R88: We have a fucked up system that allows a minority to immediately stop any progress. The filibuster will be the end of this country. Senator King set it best. He said: Republican Senators represent 24% of the country and get to rule over the other 76% who are represented by Democrats.

We have a fucked up system. Period. The Senate is a despicable joke at this point. There is nothing remotely normal about 40M people being represented by 2 people while 15M get represented by 8 people.

And the electoral college needs to be abolished as well. 8 of 9 god damned elections were won by Democrats. Trump and his supporters are fucking morons who don't seem to get that the majority of his country hated his guts TWICE. It was only that fucking EC that allowed such a repugnant, stupid orange clown to become president.

by Anonymousreply 89October 21, 2021 8:19 AM

[quote] There is nothing remotely normal about 40M people being represented by 2 people

It’s not reasonable for one state to have 40 million people. California should have already split into smaller pieces, creating more senators for its people.

by Anonymousreply 90October 21, 2021 9:35 AM

I couldn’t understand why Corn was publishing this story if it wasn’t true, but he revealed the plan on MSNBC. He said that now Manchin can’t jump to the GOP because if he did, it would make Corn’s story “true” and Manchin wouldn’t want that. So apparently it’s a ploy to keep Manchin in the fold.

by Anonymousreply 91October 21, 2021 10:59 AM

Knowingly dishonest reporting as a "ploy" is his explanation? Sounds right for an MSNBC analyst.

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by Anonymousreply 92October 21, 2021 11:08 AM

The last paragraph of Michelle Cottle's column in today's NYT is instructive for all those pulling their hair out:

"This is how the sausage gets made, even — perhaps especially — when Democrats have unified control of the government. With a party this diverse, no one should expect any part of the process to be smooth or painless — nor be particularly surprised when members from redder regions aren’t looking to make life easy for their bluer colleagues."

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by Anonymousreply 93October 21, 2021 12:05 PM

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

by Anonymousreply 94October 21, 2021 12:10 PM

It’s unlikely that one of the biggest narcissists in U.S. politics is going to start caucusing with the Republicans where he would be expected to be just another faceless foot soldier and compete for attention with the likes of Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz and MGT. It would completely diminish his standing.

He can start his little “American Independent” party, positioning himself for a run in 2024 or something but who cares? How is that any different from the way he’s distanced himself from the Democratic Party now? He’s just trying to squeeze EVERY bit of attention juice he can from the limelight because he’s just an attention whore. And when the Democrats pick up a few more Senate seats next year - which is as possible as anything else - they can tell him to go fuck himself. Or go fuck Joe Lieberman.

by Anonymousreply 95October 21, 2021 12:15 PM

[quote]We have a fucked up system. Period. The Senate is a despicable joke at this point. There is nothing remotely normal about 40M people being represented by 2 people while 15M get represented by 8 people.

If you think this is bad, wait until we get rid of the filibuster. Senator Angus King (I-MA), who has always been opposed to changes in the filibuster, told Rachel Maddow yesterday that he thinks continued Republican abuse of it justifies changing the rules ... but he acknowledges that Mitch McConnell "could be licking his chops" waiting for Democrats to do it.

by Anonymousreply 96October 21, 2021 12:46 PM

New Granite State poll is not great for Democrats (Oct. 14-18; 979 LVs; +/-3.1%) Sununu 45% Hassan 42% Hassan 47% Bolduc 42% Hassan 44% Ayotte 43% Worst of all: Hassan's approval at 33%, 51% disapproval #NHSen

by Anonymousreply 97October 21, 2021 1:38 PM

Unless he actually hands McConnell over the gavel, this shit won't work.

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by Anonymousreply 98October 21, 2021 3:42 PM

Billionaire investor Nelson Peltz told CNBC that he speaks to Sen. Joe Manchin weekly and offers him encouragement as the Democratic centrist seeks to whittle down President Joe Biden's sweeping social care and climate change reconciliation bill.

Peltz, in an interview Wednesday on CNBC's Halftime Report, praised the West Virginia senator for "keeping our elected officials somewhere in the middle."

"Joe is the most important guy in DC. Maybe the most important guy in America today," said Peltz, who added that he and Manchin have been friends for 10 years. "I call him every week and say, 'Joe, you're doing great. Stay tough. Stay tough, buddy.' He's phenomenal," said Peltz.

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by Anonymousreply 99October 21, 2021 3:42 PM

It's really weird why Manchin is so adamant about reducing the size of the bill. His completely impoverished state would be a big beneficiary.

by Anonymousreply 100October 21, 2021 3:57 PM

[quote] If that "shithole" state pulled their insurance and investment business completely out of NYC, at least 12 NYC banks and insurance companies probably would never fully recover. You are a ignoramus.

No state is dependent on WV, even one iota. WV could be wiped from the map and the US wouldnt skip a beat

by Anonymousreply 101October 21, 2021 4:00 PM

Did David Corn name names on where he got this info? If we know that, it should be much easier to confirm if this is true.

by Anonymousreply 102October 21, 2021 4:02 PM

[quote] Did David Corn name names on where he got this info? If we know that, it should be much easier to confirm if this is true.

If a reporter named all names, he would never get a scoop

by Anonymousreply 103October 21, 2021 4:21 PM

If every Democratic state came out today and threatened to hold legislative sessions with the explicit goal of banning the sale of coal, I'm sure he'd back down and give in on a deal in a heartbeat. If his bottom line is what is driving his refusal to get a deal, threaten it. Unfortunately, the problem here really is Sinema. I don't trust her and that's why I doubt we're getting any deal, whether Manchin signs off on one or not. You can corral all 49 senators onto a package, but when it comes up for a vote, unless they've nailed her down, she's going to pull a McCain and be the pivotal vote that sends it into the toilet. Letting Manchin go is better than suffering such a humiliating defeat.

by Anonymousreply 104October 21, 2021 4:28 PM

[quote]Unfortunately, the problem here really is Sinema.

Punchbowl News:

So while the Biden administration and Senate Democratic leadership plan to work with both Sinema and Manchin, they now believe it would be more productive to seek a deal with Manchin, bring House and Senate progressives on board and then dare Sinema to block it.

This is partially a recognition of the bind that Democrats find themselves in. They’re locked in a tough negotiation with both Manchin and Sinema -- two Democrats who have different priorities, but have been tied together in the public consciousness because of their qualms with the multi-trillion dollar Biden proposal.

Thus top Democrats seem to want to recalibrate by cutting a deal with one -- Manchin -- and leaving Sinema alone on an island. Can she withstand that pressure? Sinema’s office declined to comment for this report.

by Anonymousreply 105October 21, 2021 4:32 PM

[Quote] they now believe it would be more productive to seek a deal with Manchin, bring House and Senate progressives on board and then dare Sinema to block it

She'll block it. She has no qualms about doing this. I suspect those meetings with these corporations aka "lobbyists" were about killing the bill in exchange for a cushy job once she leaves the Senate. There's a reason her staffers are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship. She's going to tank this and that seems to be her plan. To suffer such a public and humiliating loss would do significant damage to the Biden administration. I really don't think they should go down this road. They should quietly shelve it and move on to other stuff. Since this is going to be made into a spectacle, people will see it and it will sour voters perceptions heading into the midterms. If you can it quietly, there's less noise and most voters will forget about it and move on, especially if the economy is improving and the pandemic is put under control.

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by Anonymousreply 106October 21, 2021 4:36 PM

[quote]No state is dependent on WV, even one iota.

West Virginia isn't even dependent on West Virginia... it's largely dependent on the federal government. WV voters truly vote against their best interest.

The other thing I find funny is that WV has two senators, the second of whom is a staunch Republican who is dead set against this legislation and is flying under the radar with the media.

The better way to sell this in WV is to not make it a "Democrat" thing but to take both sentors to task and sell it as what it is... something that will help the people of West Virginia.

by Anonymousreply 107October 21, 2021 4:45 PM

If only some resourceful shemale had a sextape he could be confronted with.

by Anonymousreply 108October 21, 2021 4:48 PM

[quote]WV voters truly vote against their best interest.

R107, see R101 to understand why you're wrong.

by Anonymousreply 109October 21, 2021 4:51 PM

Not sure what your point is, r109. Both statements are true.

No one state is dependent on West Virginia AND West Virginia voters vote against their best interest. These aren't mutually exclusive.

by Anonymousreply 110October 21, 2021 4:55 PM

It really is amazing how all of these red states literally dependent on socialism for their very survival, have the nerve to complain about the financial aspects of ANY bill. It's not their money. None of it is their money. In reality, they hand over nothing because they get back more than they ever give. Always.

So when a loathsome pile of shit like McConnell tells NY to "go bankrupt" during a pandemic, I end up hating Schumer more for not getting into that hick's fucking face and telling him "It's our fucking money. We go bankrupt, you go bankrupt, leech."

by Anonymousreply 111October 21, 2021 4:57 PM

R110,

[quote] WV could be wiped from the map and the US wouldnt skip a beat

Who would empower somebody who thinks that little of them?

by Anonymousreply 112October 21, 2021 4:57 PM

Again, not sure what point your making, r112.

Empowering West Virginia voters would go a long way to changing West Virginia for the better and I think that frightens the politically ambitious in the state.

by Anonymousreply 113October 21, 2021 5:01 PM

R113 the point is that it’s telling, like Hillary’s infamous “basket of deplorables” gaffe. Nobody wants to vote for people who think they’re worthless ignorant deplorable idiots.

Also, oh dear.

by Anonymousreply 114October 21, 2021 5:05 PM

R113, that person clearly has no point since I already the fool on ignore, so I imagine you'll never get anything resembling sense.

by Anonymousreply 115October 21, 2021 5:06 PM

had* the fool

by Anonymousreply 116October 21, 2021 5:06 PM

[quote] Who would empower somebody who thinks that little of them?

Yet Manchin thinks that little of them. He would rather bow to his donor masters than to his own impoverished citizens

by Anonymousreply 117October 21, 2021 5:06 PM

Sinema used be to a green earth activist prior to becoming a Senator

Funny how donor money changes that on a dime.

by Anonymousreply 118October 21, 2021 5:07 PM

Yeah, R115, the last few posts from them have been nonsensical.

I can't even make heads or tails out of the last one...

[quote]the point is that it’s telling, like Hillary’s infamous “basket of deplorables” gaffe. Nobody wants to vote for people who think they’re worthless ignorant deplorable idiots.

by Anonymousreply 119October 21, 2021 5:09 PM

She was a Green Party member—not really the same as an environmental activist.

by Anonymousreply 120October 21, 2021 5:10 PM

[quote]Yet Manchin thinks that little of them. He would rather bow to his donor masters than to his own impoverished citizens

They more than any other state supported Trump. They have a Republican governor and two conservative senators. Don't make excuses for assholes with no money who know precisely who they're voting for and why. I cannot stand that state or the majority Republican voters in it. I only feel sorry for the few who voted for Biden.

by Anonymousreply 121October 21, 2021 5:10 PM

The citizens of WV are against their own best interest for not voting for people like Miss Marie Antoinette r121 who “cannot stand that state” and calls them “assholes with no money.”

And I know you all don’t get the point I’m making. It is obvious that you don’t. That’s why it’s called a “coastal bubble.”

by Anonymousreply 122October 21, 2021 5:13 PM

Back to the point at hand:

David Corn said some people told him that Manchin told them that Manchin was leaving the Democractic Party.

Manchin said it was bullshit.

So where do things stand now?

by Anonymousreply 123October 21, 2021 5:18 PM

Well, r121, first I'm on the WV/PA border, so I'm not living in a coastal bubble.

And second, r121 isn't running for office in WV. Neither is Hillary Clinton. Anyone who ran with open contempt for their constituents would lose regardless of the state.

Third...The media intentionally took Clinton's comment out of context. If you read what she actually said she didn't call red staters deplorables.

And finally...if a few people aren't getting your posts -- it's you. It's not a vicious costal elite bubble. It's you. You're being obtuse.

by Anonymousreply 124October 21, 2021 5:20 PM

Journalists, as journalists do, are circling the wagons to protect Corn.

by Anonymousreply 125October 21, 2021 5:21 PM

Well, [R121], first I'm on the WV/PA border, so I'm not living in a coastal bubble... That was actually directed at r122.

by Anonymousreply 126October 21, 2021 5:21 PM

[quote] So where do things stand now?

The Senate equivalent of "bless your heart'...

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by Anonymousreply 127October 21, 2021 5:23 PM

So quite a bit of embellishing and false additions to what Manchin actually said.

by Anonymousreply 128October 21, 2021 5:26 PM

[quote]The citizens of WV are against their own best interest for not voting for people like Miss Marie Antoinette [R121] who “cannot stand that state” and calls them “assholes with no money.”

Voting against people and measures that would materially improve your life because your fee-fees are hurt is indeed voting against your best interest.

by Anonymousreply 129October 21, 2021 5:36 PM

Oh, yes. If there's anything Trump doesn't have, it's obvious contempt for the very people who support him while Biden has clearly shown he is the elitist. Remind me again who made fun of Biden going to a state school.

Trump supporters, esp., low income ones are in fact very stupid, very hateful or both. Only a moron wouldn't know that Trump has nothing but contempt for anyone who isn't wealthy. Given his choice between lunch with those WV poor people or LIBERAL Hollywood celebrities, who the fuck do you think he would choose?

I'm so tired of the excuses made for the awful people who voted for Trump. You are in fact awful and indecent. You voted for a stupid, elitist idiot because he's played to your prejudice. That is the only reason anyone with little to no money could vote for someone as ignorant and repugnant as him. At least most of teh wealthy ones are just greedy pricks who knew Trump was a clown, but he did their bidding. WTF do the poor assholes get out of his presidency? NOTHING.

by Anonymousreply 130October 21, 2021 5:42 PM

If the Tweet quoted above is really what Manchin said, then Corn was just flat out wrong. Or lied.

This is why I hate anonymous sources.

But who knows if the Tweet is true.

The only thing that’s true is that Manchin is - or is not - a Democrat.

by Anonymousreply 131October 21, 2021 5:43 PM

did* the poor

by Anonymousreply 132October 21, 2021 5:44 PM

That this piece of shit and his hick costituents have as much (more, it actually seems) say in how this country is run as a Senator from California or any of the other states that have actual, intelligent people in them is a disgrace that the Founding Fathers and all their descendants should feel absolute shame about. It will also be the end of this country.

by Anonymousreply 133October 21, 2021 5:46 PM

R124, his fucking constituents support the fucking bill. He votes against what the polls show his state, as a whole, wants. He's not representing his state. He's representing himself and his big-money donors.

by Anonymousreply 134October 21, 2021 5:49 PM

So because of R129, I can see that the person I have on ignore addressed me with this:

[quote]The citizens of WV are against their own best interest for not voting for people like Miss Marie Antoinette [[R121]] who “cannot stand that state” and calls them “assholes with no money.”

Let me explain to you how the world *actually* works: I am a NY taxpayer. I fucking vote in the best interest of WV. I could very easily vote Republican and survive with their financial policies. WV poor people vote against their own interests because they're full of hate. All you've done is proven who the true fragile snowflakes are. You expect immigrants who pay taxes in this country to accept being called rapists and terrorists by the "president" those WV poor people support. You expect everyone else to tolerate Trump being an odious pile of shit towards other groups of American citizens, yet an anonymous person like myself is not supposed to call them out for how they vote and why they vote for people like Trump?

Suck it up, buttercup. If you're going to support a white supremacist pile of shit who will never do anything for you, I'm going to point out what a loser you are for it. Because we all know why they supported him TWICE.

by Anonymousreply 135October 21, 2021 5:50 PM

The Democratic Powers That Be should slowly and quietly shut off the Federal faucet for West Virginia.

If he switches to the Republican Party because of that, he will never get reelected and will be reviled for not getting the goods for West Virginia. He knows this. They all know this.

There's a way the Republicans get everyone in lock-step. We should try some of those tactics.

I may be naive, and none of that is possible, but I wish the Democrats would start playing hardball. Or at least look as though they can and will.

by Anonymousreply 136October 21, 2021 6:11 PM

[quote]his fucking constituents support the fucking bill. He votes against what the polls show his state, as a whole, wants. He's not representing his state. He's representing himself and his big-money donor

R134, Actually this isn't entirely correct. There are parts of the bill that West Virginians love and parts that they hate. The parts that they don't like, like the clean energy portion, are the parts that Manchin is trying to do away with.

Manchin's approval hasn't dropped that much in the state because he is representing his constituents.

by Anonymousreply 137October 21, 2021 7:12 PM

How Kyrsten Sinema Went from Lefty Activist to Proud Neoliberal Democrat

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by Anonymousreply 138October 21, 2021 7:14 PM

[quote]If he switches to the Republican Party because of that, he will never get reelected

People who say this Don't understand WV.

by Anonymousreply 139October 21, 2021 7:15 PM

And I should have added to R137... and the Republican senator who absolutely does not support the bill is doing just fine in approval polls. Which brings me back to something I posted earlier...stop making this about Manchin and start educating WVians on how their lives will improve with the passage of the bill if you want to move the needle.

by Anonymousreply 140October 21, 2021 7:20 PM

Ia this the same goddamned Nelson Peltz who threw a shit fit when the P&G stockholders told him to pound sand a few years ago?

He was trying to do a hostile takeover of the BOD and got kicked in the cuntbone when he couldn't lie, cheat or buy his way into the BOD.

Then he got all mad and stomped around screeching to anyone and everyone about how "unfair" the stockholders were to him by DENYING him a seat on the board.

That sniveling entitled prick cannot stand to be told "no". I say tie an anchor around his neck and pitch him into the Ohio River.

by Anonymousreply 141October 21, 2021 7:38 PM

If you must go, goodbye.

by Anonymousreply 142October 21, 2021 7:47 PM

CNN: Five military veterans on Sen. Kyrsten Sinema's advisory board resigned from their roles this week, slamming the Arizona Democrat as one of the "principal obstacles to progress."

In a letter to Sinema, the veterans expressed frustration with her refusal to change the Senate filibuster to protect voting rights, failure to support prescription drug negotiations, her opposition to parts of the Democrats' sweeping budget reconciliation package that make up President Joe Biden's agenda and criticized her for not voting on the January 6 commission.

"You have become one of the principal obstacles to progress, answering to big donors rather than your own people," the veterans wrote. "We shouldn't have to buy representation from you, and your failure to stand by your people and see their urgent needs is alarming."

by Anonymousreply 143October 21, 2021 8:03 PM

It would be easier if the Dems did a better job of explaining what's in the bill.

by Anonymousreply 144October 21, 2021 8:15 PM

R144, I said it in another thread. There was a guest on MSNBC who said it best: Stop trying to sell the recipe and start selling the brownies.

by Anonymousreply 145October 21, 2021 8:18 PM

r144, and explain why they are trying to do too many things at once instead of doing one or two things well.

by Anonymousreply 146October 21, 2021 8:18 PM

R146, this happens every time a party gains power--they stick everything they can in a Superbill.

The GOP did it with the Patriot Act and the Dems are doing it now.

by Anonymousreply 147October 21, 2021 8:21 PM

R139

You're right. What I meant - and should have said - was that not having delivered the goods for WV he would be challenged by another Republican candidate and would not win.

Federal assistance is only welfare until it comes to what they consider they deserve. Then they vote accordingly. When it comes to deciding between two Rs, the one that gives them - or promises them - what they deserve, wins.

by Anonymousreply 148October 21, 2021 8:30 PM

Manchin's devotion to the coal industry is doing his constituents a world of good:

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by Anonymousreply 149October 21, 2021 8:54 PM

Yeah a man with his ego would just LOVE to walk away from being the most sought-after man in Washington to become a replacement-level Trumpist.

If he becomes an R, he'll be replaced by someone crazier in about 20 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 150October 21, 2021 9:33 PM

[quote] WTF do the poor assholes get out of his presidency? NOTHING.

Besides low unemployment averages, low gasoline prices, low utility bills, covid vaccines developed in record time, and stocked market shelves?

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by Anonymousreply 151October 21, 2021 10:35 PM

Sure if you ignore all the time *before Covid, he wasn't AS bad as the previous Republican, but then Covid hit and he was *worse than the previous Republican could have possibly been. Plus he incited a riot to get his defeat overturned so fuck him and fuck you!

by Anonymousreply 152October 21, 2021 11:08 PM

[quote]Besides low unemployment averages, low gasoline prices, low utility bills, covid vaccines developed in record time, and stocked market shelves?

Are you genuinely this uniformed? This is the equivalent of thanking Trump for not getting into an accident when you were driving This is just embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 153October 21, 2021 11:31 PM

The most "we hate the poor" policies in the United States are the two that Trump campaigned the most on:

1. Massive third world migration

2. Free trade deals.

It used to be that the Democrats opposed the latter, but they have truly become the party of big business in now embracing both of those things.

Unfortunately, Trump followed through on neither of them.

by Anonymousreply 154October 21, 2021 11:40 PM

Well, R153, I’m remembering when - in a sure sign he knew he was WAY over his head - Trump took credit after his year that there were no plane-related crash fatalities.

by Anonymousreply 155October 21, 2021 11:42 PM

He can't become a Republican as Republicans in West Virginia don't like him. He only gets like a 25% approval by Republicans.

by Anonymousreply 156October 21, 2021 11:45 PM

I'm not sure why he wouldn't go for the larger amount. He could really help his state the 2nd poorest state in the country. He could ask for whatever he wants but no. I wouldn't vote for him if I lived there.

by Anonymousreply 157October 21, 2021 11:46 PM

Oh, why does he even give a shit? It's not his money. And he'll be dead of old age in a couple years anyway.

Oh, I forgot: he's working for McConnell. Wonder how much money gets transferred to his foreign bank accounts?

by Anonymousreply 158October 21, 2021 11:48 PM

He’s like 80 years old and worth north of 50 million dollars. I’m sure he will continue to do what’s best for himself and his family and not loose a wink of sleep.

by Anonymousreply 159October 21, 2021 11:50 PM

[quote]I'm not sure why he wouldn't go for the larger amount. He could really help his state the 2nd poorest state in the country. He could ask for whatever he wants but no. I wouldn't vote for him if I lived there.

Are you serious? He works for dark money, not his state. The Kochs and the other donors don't want this to pass.

by Anonymousreply 160October 21, 2021 11:51 PM

"But I'd still be caucusing with Democrats," Manchin said.

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by Anonymousreply 161October 21, 2021 11:56 PM

Maybe Manchin wants to join Miss Lindsey, at least politically. It is said Miss Lindsey is a "hit" and a "hoot" at cocktail parties aboard Manchin's yacht.

by Anonymousreply 162October 21, 2021 11:57 PM

West Virginia needs to be severely, severely punished for the next decade

by Anonymousreply 163October 22, 2021 12:04 AM

"But I'd still be a CUNT"

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by Anonymousreply 164October 22, 2021 12:04 AM

Mother Jones editor David Corn was on MSNBC today saying Manchin's response yesterday saying the story was bullshit was not holding today. As a result, Manchin had to come today saying he did have a discussion with Dem leader Sen. Chuck Shumer saying he would be willing to become an Independent but would caucus with the Democrats "if that would help Shumer."

David Corn still stands by his story saying Manchin was willing to leave the Dem party and become a Repig. Manchin moved on the story today because he knew he was caught in a lie.

by Anonymousreply 165October 22, 2021 12:24 AM

Zero spending? It's not your fucking money, fucking hick.

Can you imagine someone for whom your provide, telling you "I'm not giving you any of your money to spend. I get to dictate where your money goes even as I take your money."

by Anonymousreply 166October 22, 2021 12:28 AM

[quote] David Corn still stands by his story saying Manchin was willing to leave the Dem party and become a Repig.

I don't know what Corn has said subsequent to his story, but if you read his story he never said Manchin was willing to become a Republican.

by Anonymousreply 167October 22, 2021 12:28 AM

[quote]Billionaire investor Nelson Peltz told CNBC that he speaks to Sen. Joe Manchin weekly and offers him encouragement as the Democratic centrist seeks to whittle down President Joe Biden's sweeping social care and climate change reconciliation bill.

R99. Interesting fact: Billionaire investor Nelson Peltz if the father of Nicola Peltz, who is currently engaged to David and Victoria Beckham's son, Brooklyn Beckham.

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by Anonymousreply 168October 22, 2021 12:29 AM

Manchin offered to become an independent if he was considered an 'embarrassment' to Democrats

not to become a Republican.

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by Anonymousreply 169October 22, 2021 12:32 AM

It was Machin throwing a hissy fit.

by Anonymousreply 170October 22, 2021 12:33 AM

[quote] Manchin offered to become an independent if he was considered an 'embarrassment' to Democrats. not to become a Republican.

He'll still support republican values no matter what fucking party he claims to be a member of

by Anonymousreply 171October 22, 2021 12:37 AM

[quote]As a result, Manchin had to come today saying he did have a discussion with Dem leader Sen. Chuck Shumer saying he would be willing to become an Independent but would caucus with the Democrats "if that would help Shumer."

When has he ever wanted to help shumer?

He'd caucus with them to get info to use against them

by Anonymousreply 172October 22, 2021 12:39 AM

These contests and votes shouldn't be this close. If everyone who agreed with Biden would just get off their asses and vote, the Republican party would shrivel. This is a liberal country!

by Anonymousreply 173October 22, 2021 12:44 AM

[quote] When has he ever wanted to help shumer?

What short memories we have!!!

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by Anonymousreply 174October 22, 2021 12:47 AM

[quote] If everyone who agreed with Biden would just get off their asses and vote, the Republican party would shrivel. This is a liberal country!

Apparently not nearly as many agree with Biden as they once thought they did.

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by Anonymousreply 175October 22, 2021 12:48 AM

R172. Manchin was trying to portray himself as altruistic and helpful, which is why he said publicly today that he would "offer to help" Shumer. It's all Manchin bullshit. He's a fucking two-faced mean girl and now everyone is finding out about him.

Don't forget...Manchin voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.

by Anonymousreply 176October 22, 2021 12:48 AM

[quote] Don't forget...Manchin voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.

But he - along with Sinema, who wasn't in the Senate for the Kavanaugh vote - did vote against Amy Coney Barrett.

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by Anonymousreply 177October 22, 2021 12:56 AM

R177. It wasn't difficult to vote against ACB; she was jammed through and it was purely political with a presidential election underway. However, voting against Brett Kavanaugh took more courage for Manchin to stand with his party especially under that cover of that sham FBI investigation. Manchin failed miserably and sided with the Repigs.

by Anonymousreply 178October 22, 2021 1:35 AM

The original source of the Bernie/Manchin spat story. Really, you're not going to move someone who would rather have nothing than work with his fellow Democrats to pass a robust reconciliation bill. Not to mention that Sinema is still a problem here. Tank both bills quietly and move on. This absurd theatre is going to become politically costly the longer it drags on.

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by Anonymousreply 179October 22, 2021 1:43 AM

DRAMA QUEEN ATTENTION WHORES

by Anonymousreply 180October 22, 2021 1:43 AM

R178, he does represent the reddest state in the Union. Maybe cut him some slack. In a 50-50 Senate, we are so damn lucky to have him.

by Anonymousreply 181October 22, 2021 1:49 AM

R181. I try to cut him slack, but he's acting like an asshole lately. He is the principal reason for the hold up of this bill. I understand that he's from a red state and we need him, but for months he didn't state publicly what he wanted and allowed his colleagues to operate in that dark not knowing what he wanted. And now months in deep and the theatrics and drama that he's causing is hurting Biden and the party. His exclusion regarding the climate change provision in the bill is not so much to protect his constituents but to protect the millions he and his make from the coal company when even the coal industry knows we have to change. And even with this provision, he just announced his opposition to it fucking last week!!

Sinema is another ridiculous issue, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Manchin and how he dishonestly operates is a problem.

by Anonymousreply 182October 22, 2021 1:59 AM

R175, there isn't a single poll that is as real as actual votes and actual votes reveal the overwhelming majority vote for Democrats - at every level.

by Anonymousreply 183October 22, 2021 2:00 AM

R182, we’re witnessing how the sausage is made. Politico is now reporting that, as a result of a contentious Manchin-Sanders meeting, great process is being made towards a deal. Let’s try to take the long view on this.

by Anonymousreply 184October 22, 2021 2:05 AM

Biden on CNN tonight: “I think we’re going to have to move to fundamentally alter the filibuster.”

by Anonymousreply 185October 22, 2021 2:32 AM

R184. I'm taking the long view. I am also very aware of this public infighting and how it is damaging the Dems and Biden's presidency, damage from which they may not fully recover if too much gets cobbled out of the bill. We have to keep our eyes on the midterm elections of 2022. If the Repigs take over due in part to this public infighting, it could spell doom and allow a gateway for Trump to run in 2024...not to mention that if the Jan 6 insurrection investigations are not completed, they will be dismantled and end if the Repigs take the House.

by Anonymousreply 186October 22, 2021 2:39 AM

R186, it seems to me that - no matter the content of reconciliation- all this inside baseball drama will be long forgotten by next November. And that other drama will come to the fore by then.

by Anonymousreply 187October 22, 2021 2:44 AM

[quote] Biden on CNN tonight: “I think we’re going to have to move to fundamentally alter the filibuster.”

Empty talk to please the extremists.

Dems will NEED the ability to filibuster after 2022's election. Without it they may as well go fishing instead.

by Anonymousreply 188October 22, 2021 2:49 AM

hope he dies

by Anonymousreply 189October 22, 2021 2:50 AM

Sinema just agreed to something regarding the dollar amount of the bill, meeting approximately the amount with which Manchin can live. The details of the components and what's in/what's out still not decided. It's unfolding tonight. Maybe we'll know something tomorrow.

by Anonymousreply 190October 22, 2021 3:10 AM

R188 not sure you understand how it works, but unless the Republicans secure a veto-proof majority, no, they don’t, not as long as there is a Democratic president.

As usual, DLers get super passionate about politics but understand them so little.

by Anonymousreply 191October 22, 2021 3:15 AM

I think R188 is under the impression that the ‘22 election is a presidential one. That, or that Trump will be reinstated after next year’s election.

by Anonymousreply 192October 22, 2021 3:19 AM

[quote]Lyndon B would have known how to strong-arm one of these bastards. Or Harry Reid! oh how I miss him.

Contrary to lore, LBJ rarely had to "strong arm" any Senators for anything other than sport or ego since he had a 67 seat Democratically led Senate to work with.

by Anonymousreply 193October 22, 2021 3:40 AM

By strong arm and LBJ you mean dick slap?

by Anonymousreply 194October 22, 2021 4:36 AM

calls to sinema and manchin are working if you are in their states, constituents? CALL THEM. Tell them to pass the build back better agenda NOW. We need this.

by Anonymousreply 195October 22, 2021 4:48 AM

They know astroturfing when they see it

by Anonymousreply 196October 22, 2021 4:49 AM

R193 things were very different back then. A lot of those senators were “Dixiecrats” and the parties did not vote in lock step back then. A lot of the civil rights legislation would not have passed without votes from northeast Republicans (another thing that has changed is that there were northeast republicans back then.)

If you guys are gonna be such MARYs about politics, maybe you should learn something about them.

by Anonymousreply 197October 22, 2021 5:29 AM

In OPs pic, Manchin looks like he just discovered his massive nose for the first time.

by Anonymousreply 198October 22, 2021 5:36 AM

[quote] I'm taking the long view. I am also very aware of this public infighting and how it is damaging the Dems and Biden's presidency, damage from which they may not fully recover if too much gets cobbled out of the bill. We have to keep our eyes on the midterm elections of 2022. If the Repigs take over due in part to this public infighting, it could spell doom and allow a gateway for Trump to run in 2024...not to mention that if the Jan 6 insurrection investigations are not completed, they will be dismantled and end if the Repigs take the House

They're becoming a joke. Biden has almost been in office a year and they haven't done anything. The roll out of the vaccines were excellent. But that's it. This infighting is handing the repugs ammunition to use against them every single day. The dems will lose control of the senate. So they need to get shit done as fast as possible because the repugs will just obstruct when they are in control

And they better do something about passing a voting rights bill. QUICK. The fact that biden actually thinks he can just hope for a bigger voter turnout than ever before is a strategy that will beat the republican voter suppression laws is beggar's belief. It's pure stupidity. I do question his competency. Even john Oliver called out Biden on his show and said, "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU"?.

There is no time to fuck around. the clock is ticking. I'm sure the republicans have more plans to keep people from voting. And I'm sure the democrats won't have any ideas on how to fight back

by Anonymousreply 199October 22, 2021 8:50 AM

[quote] things were very different back then. A lot of those senators were “Dixiecrats” and the parties did not vote in lock step back then. A lot of the civil rights legislation would not have passed without votes from northeast Republicans (another thing that has changed is that there were northeast republicans back then.)

Since the days of FDR, there was an understanding that Southern Dems of the day would support Democratic presidents' social welfare legislation, but would be defiantly in opposition to any civil rights bills.

by Anonymousreply 200October 22, 2021 10:31 AM

[quote] Biden has almost been in office a year and they haven't done anything.

See R174.

by Anonymousreply 201October 22, 2021 10:32 AM

[quote] Voting against people and measures that would materially improve your life because your fee-fees are hurt is indeed voting against your best interest.

You mean like the GOP officials in Maryland who want to break free and join West Virginia?

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by Anonymousreply 202October 22, 2021 2:00 PM

[quote] it seems to me that - no matter the content of reconciliation- all this inside baseball drama will be long forgotten by next November. And that other drama will come to the fore by then.

Yes, people forget the details, but they remember the feeling and the feeling is not good. However, all of this will be overshadowed next year by other huge problems, including inflation from runaway spending and the supply chain crisis.

by Anonymousreply 203October 22, 2021 3:11 PM

r202, there are people like “Mr. G” who view government only from the standpoint of how much money can you get from it.

by Anonymousreply 204October 22, 2021 3:17 PM

I could assume Mr. G actually saw the above post inappropriately maligning him and this is his response to it directly.

Or, maybe it just because there are so many landmines in contemporary culture that he can tweet this at any time and it is evergreen...

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by Anonymousreply 205October 22, 2021 3:32 PM
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