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Jefferson Statue Voted Removed From NYC City Council Chamber

It is really not their chamber. It belongs to the citizens.

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by Anonymousreply 194October 22, 2021 4:03 AM

He just wasn't woke enough for the early 1800s.

by Anonymousreply 1October 19, 2021 12:57 AM

Get rid of it.

by Anonymousreply 2October 19, 2021 12:58 AM

It gives them the illusion they’re doing something.

by Anonymousreply 3October 19, 2021 1:12 AM

In 1962 at a White House dinner honoring Nobel Prize winners, then President John Kennedy remarked, “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House – with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”

And now we have this...it may end like The Terror -- when there's no one left to execute except the executioner.

by Anonymousreply 4October 19, 2021 1:14 AM

They prefer to do stuff like this --remove statues-- than anything that might actually help someone who lives next door.

by Anonymousreply 5October 19, 2021 1:19 AM

Democrats are a waste of fucking time.

by Anonymousreply 6October 19, 2021 1:31 AM

There’s a whole Thomas Jefferson University and hospital down the road in Philly, which no one is saying much about.

by Anonymousreply 7October 19, 2021 1:33 AM

Well, Jefferson's connection to NYC was pretty tenuous.

by Anonymousreply 8October 19, 2021 1:38 AM

When is the Washington Monument going to be taken down?

by Anonymousreply 9October 19, 2021 1:53 AM

About time.

by Anonymousreply 10October 19, 2021 1:55 AM

Nice VPL on the bronze.

by Anonymousreply 11October 19, 2021 2:33 AM

When Biden is out in 24, Trump can put it back up. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 12October 19, 2021 2:42 AM

That statue is almost at Lucy levels of ghastliness.

by Anonymousreply 13October 19, 2021 2:46 AM

Chinese Cultural Revolution…in America.

by Anonymousreply 14October 19, 2021 2:47 AM

The Red Guard lives.

by Anonymousreply 15October 19, 2021 2:54 AM

The UVA grounds and Monticello getting bulldozed on a twitter feed near you this Christmas!

by Anonymousreply 16October 19, 2021 7:53 AM

Just another day in the disintegration of America.

by Anonymousreply 17October 19, 2021 7:57 AM

People today are total Pussies.

by Anonymousreply 18October 19, 2021 9:12 AM

New York is my territory, Tommy.

Bitch.

by Anonymousreply 19October 19, 2021 9:23 AM

This is what it sounds like when racists cry!

by Anonymousreply 20October 19, 2021 9:29 AM

The New York City Council is a joke. Speaker Cory Johnson is a moron who attended college for one month. He's basically a high-school graduate.

by Anonymousreply 21October 19, 2021 10:23 AM

A shithole move from a shithole city.

by Anonymousreply 22October 19, 2021 1:13 PM

Jefferson was kind of an asshole actually.

He and his supporters tried lots of devious politicking to push their views.

Plus he treated women like shit

by Anonymousreply 23October 19, 2021 1:16 PM

[Quote] Speaker Cory Johnson is a moron who attended college for one month. He's basically a high-school graduate.

Which makes him more educated than you

by Anonymousreply 24October 19, 2021 1:17 PM

We deify Jefferson because that’s how we study Jefferson in high school. In fact, he was a nasty human being.

by Anonymousreply 25October 19, 2021 1:18 PM

Thoughts and prayers.

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by Anonymousreply 26October 19, 2021 1:19 PM

Does Jefferson have any direct connection to NYC?

Are there any statues of women or minorities?

It’s not only white men who did great things in America

by Anonymousreply 27October 19, 2021 1:19 PM

Only now he was “a nasty human being”?

by Anonymousreply 28October 19, 2021 1:19 PM

Getting replaced with a statue of Marsha P. Johnson, I assume? She DOES have a "direct connection to NYC", after all.

by Anonymousreply 29October 19, 2021 1:25 PM

Yes, he’ll be replaced with Marsha P Statue.

by Anonymousreply 30October 19, 2021 1:41 PM

seems silly to me, but he was a virginian after all.

by Anonymousreply 31October 19, 2021 1:41 PM

Replace him with Muhammad!!

by Anonymousreply 32October 19, 2021 1:47 PM

[Quote] Only now he was “a nasty human being”?

Historians always knew he was a nasty human being and his political party (The Jeffersonian Republicans) were even worse.

He did many good things when founding the country, however.

by Anonymousreply 33October 19, 2021 1:49 PM

Marsha P Johnson did more for NYC than Jefferson ever did.

by Anonymousreply 34October 19, 2021 1:49 PM

Should we burn the Declaration of Independence now? When will the lunacy end?

by Anonymousreply 35October 19, 2021 1:50 PM

When Democrats lose in 22, 24, 26, and 28.

by Anonymousreply 36October 19, 2021 1:51 PM

A great American if only for this one quote,

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by Anonymousreply 37October 19, 2021 1:53 PM

Oy how stupid with all the urgent life or death facing the country, we have to go with this? How feeble minded to even think about statues. It will only needle people needlessly.

by Anonymousreply 38October 19, 2021 1:57 PM

[quote]They prefer to do stuff like this --remove statues-- than anything that might actually help someone who lives next door.

Constituents pay attention to the performative bs while they're getting shafted on everything else.

by Anonymousreply 39October 19, 2021 1:57 PM

New York better be smart and not vote for Eric Adams. Just more of this same shit.

by Anonymousreply 40October 19, 2021 2:01 PM

[quote]performative

Another pretentious word with which to bludgeon the masses.

by Anonymousreply 41October 19, 2021 2:02 PM

I am a black person who is not a fan of removing statues. I believe that you add context to statues to start a discussion and give a full picture. That being said, I can co-sign removing statues of confederates because they actually took up arms against the country. They were treasonous traitors and shouldn't be celebrated.

Thomas Jefferson wasn't a treasonous traitor, he was a nation builder - a founding father and a flawed man; imperfect and complicated. If we're going to play this game, then I recommend we stop with the statues of real people nonsense all together, because what's the point. Take 'em all down. Abe Lincoln freed the slaves, but he wasn't exactly a fan of black people. He wanted to send us to Africa. He wanted to send Americans, born on this soil, to a country they knew nothing about. Are we going to take down all the Lincoln statues? George Washington owned slaves.

by Anonymousreply 42October 19, 2021 2:05 PM

Like a lot of wealthy white New York men nowadays, he liked black booty and had biracial kids. Why the cancellation?

by Anonymousreply 43October 19, 2021 2:06 PM

Whatever will we do about Mount Rushmore?

by Anonymousreply 44October 19, 2021 2:08 PM

R44 Eventually? Same thing the Taliban did to the Bamiyan Buddhas.

by Anonymousreply 45October 19, 2021 2:11 PM

[quote]Abe Lincoln freed the slaves, but he wasn't exactly a fan of black people. He wanted to send us to Africa.

He was correct, completely.

by Anonymousreply 46October 19, 2021 3:03 PM

I compare our times to the Cultural Revolution, with its dunce cap struggle sessions, R4.

by Anonymousreply 47October 19, 2021 3:07 PM

Ripping down a statue of one of this country's founding fathers is basically un-American.

by Anonymousreply 48October 19, 2021 3:10 PM

Most of the posters on this thread clearly don't know anything about NYC politics. R21 more than anyone. "Speaker Corey Johnson"?

by Anonymousreply 49October 19, 2021 3:33 PM

The Taliban will blow up New York anyways. Or Democrats will. Same thing.

by Anonymousreply 50October 19, 2021 3:39 PM

I guess the fact that he wrote the Declaration of Independence isn't a good enough reason to keep his statue up?

Perhaps all the people who are offended by his visage can send me their nickels -- it'll be like hitting the lottery!

by Anonymousreply 51October 19, 2021 3:39 PM

As usual, not a word spoken on behalf of the 20 million or so humans currently enslaved or in other forms of bondage. The NYC Council is so brave and stunning/

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by Anonymousreply 52October 19, 2021 4:01 PM

Did they at least keep the statue of Weezie?

by Anonymousreply 53October 19, 2021 4:18 PM

R49, Speaker Corey Johnson

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by Anonymousreply 54October 19, 2021 5:47 PM

[guote] When Biden is out in 24, Trump can put it back up. Thank you.

Nice try, but Biden hung up a portrait of Jefferson in the Oval Office, to replace Trump's portrait of Jackson.

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by Anonymousreply 55October 19, 2021 6:06 PM

This is all the NYC Council Chamber has to do? There's nothing of any more importance that affects the lives of citizens? Why was this moved to a position of critical importance?

by Anonymousreply 56October 19, 2021 7:02 PM

[quote]Nice try, but Biden hung up a portrait of Jefferson in the Oval Office, to replace Trump's portrait of Jackson.

Which doesn’t mean he can’t put the statue back up. In 24. Which he’ll do.

by Anonymousreply 57October 19, 2021 7:04 PM

R9

Exactly. It doesn’t look anything like him.

by Anonymousreply 58October 19, 2021 7:06 PM

So Jefferson was not a perfect man. He was a man of his times. This statue represents more than just the man. Same with the George Floyd statue. Except no one Jefferson may have hurt is still alive yet Floyd's victims are are.

by Anonymousreply 59October 19, 2021 7:15 PM

He put an end to the Atlantic slave trade but that is a pesky, minor detail compared to the importance of The Narrative.

by Anonymousreply 60October 19, 2021 7:51 PM

[quote] Which doesn’t mean he can’t put the statue back up. In 24. Which he’ll do.

Which he won’t. He can’t. The statue is in the Council Chamber building — over which tRump has no jurisdiction. None. Unless or until he declares himself America’s dictator, he’s not going to be replacing any statues in NYC government buildings.

by Anonymousreply 61October 19, 2021 8:21 PM

Jackson was truly horrible. He really did genocide the Cherokee.

by Anonymousreply 62October 19, 2021 11:50 PM

I love all these posts. Just get rid of Democrats for the rest of this decade. 2032 they can be voted in again—maybe. Big maybe. I need a break from them for a minimum of a decade.

by Anonymousreply 63October 19, 2021 11:55 PM

They'll want to erect a statue of Saint George Floyd in Jefferson's place.

by Anonymousreply 64October 20, 2021 12:20 AM

Everybody’s offended. Geez. Pussies.

by Anonymousreply 65October 20, 2021 12:25 AM

How much was artistic advisor Charlene McCray paid for this?

by Anonymousreply 66October 20, 2021 12:34 AM

R3 = butthurt Republican

R65, it sounds like you are quite offended. Pussy. You probably voted for Trump, who is the world's biggest baby

by Anonymousreply 67October 20, 2021 12:36 AM

Fun fact: the Iroquois Confederation engaged in ruthless conquest campaigns against neighboring tribes. When they conquered an enemy, they committed acts of genocide and/or enslavement.

So, are we obliterating all references of the Iroquois from our culture as well? Or are bad things bad only when done by white people?

by Anonymousreply 68October 20, 2021 12:44 AM

Fixed it for ya, R63:

[quote] Just get rid of Rethuglicans for the rest of this decade. 2032 they can be voted in again—maybe. Big maybe. We need a break from them for a minimum of a decade.

by Anonymousreply 69October 20, 2021 12:56 AM

R67 Wrong on both counts, dipshit.

by Anonymousreply 70October 20, 2021 12:59 AM

R68 Have you seen the horrible shitvdone by white men/people in history? It's not pretty!

They've done some foul shit throughout history. Anger at white people is more than justified.

by Anonymousreply 71October 20, 2021 1:00 AM

“Butthurt” is a homophobic trope. Not surprising a white gay woke would use it.

by Anonymousreply 72October 20, 2021 1:02 AM

Then go live in a black or brown country, R71.

by Anonymousreply 73October 20, 2021 1:03 AM

Fuck thomas jefferson! He was a slaver and a white supremacist.

He did nothing good for black people. I don't give a fuck about his legacy, and America is in decline anyway. A historian recently said, that America will eventually be replaced by something else in the future. This was a historian on CBS Sunday morning.

One of the reasons being, is America refuses to aggressively address its past and make amends with the people who have historically suffered in America at the hands of white supremacy. Native Americans & African Americans. And if America doesn't address its sins head on, America will eventually be destroyed.

I've heard about a dozen historians say this over the last 20 years. I agree them.

by Anonymousreply 74October 20, 2021 1:08 AM

R73 You still don't get it.

And unfortunately, you never will.

by Anonymousreply 75October 20, 2021 1:09 AM

R14 OMG! You’re right! It’s like the chinease cultural revolution. Next, we’ll have reeducation camps.

by Anonymousreply 76October 20, 2021 1:13 AM

[quote] Fuck thomas jefferson! He was a slaver and a white supremacist.

Shut up, you hysterical moronic ninny.

by Anonymousreply 77October 20, 2021 1:18 AM

R77, shut up you Republican ninny. Shouldn't you be bitching about Critical Race Theory or something?

by Anonymousreply 78October 20, 2021 1:27 AM

Go on R75. Move to a black or brown country as a white gay man. Go on.

by Anonymousreply 79October 20, 2021 1:33 AM

Democrats can be gone and voted out fast enough.

by Anonymousreply 80October 20, 2021 1:33 AM

*cannot

by Anonymousreply 81October 20, 2021 1:33 AM

Trump not happy, still stupid.

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by Anonymousreply 82October 20, 2021 1:41 AM

[quote] A historian recently said, that America will eventually be replaced by something else in the future. This was a historian on CBS Sunday morning.

And you rejoice in this, huh? What exactly will replace America that will be better for everybody?

Google “reign of terror.”

But you’ve got all the answers, I’m sure, that will benefit every single person from sea to shining sea. Yah, sure.

by Anonymousreply 83October 20, 2021 1:41 AM

[quote] The New York City Council is a joke. Speaker Cory Johnson is a moron who attended college for one month. He's basically a high-school graduate.

What's wrong with that?

by Anonymousreply 84October 20, 2021 1:49 AM

That’s good Trump spoke out about it. I’m happy about that.

by Anonymousreply 85October 20, 2021 1:50 AM

[quote]And you rejoice in this, huh?

He love probably loves the gay man’s religion: Islam.

by Anonymousreply 86October 20, 2021 1:51 AM

*probably loves

by Anonymousreply 87October 20, 2021 1:51 AM

Yes, R85, it’s nice that he doesn’t let his ignorance get in the way of his pandering.

by Anonymousreply 88October 20, 2021 1:52 AM

[quote] What exactly will replace America that will be better for everybody?

Don't worry. You won't be here.

Any number of things would be better "for everybody." Are you concerned that the rich may not be able to treat everyone shit and push all the money to the top, in the future?

by Anonymousreply 89October 20, 2021 1:53 AM

[quote]You won't be here.

Says who? Muslims?

by Anonymousreply 90October 20, 2021 1:56 AM

[quote] Says who? Muslims?

Anatomy & Physiology

by Anonymousreply 91October 20, 2021 2:08 AM

When I visited Sylvia Rivera in her tent home on the Hudson River Piers, she told me Marsha was a direct descendent of "that slave whore" Sarah Hemings. So Marsha is def more important than Jefferson nowadays and they should rename UVA as "Marsha U" and make Monticello into a half-way house for gender questioning teen POC sex workers.

by Anonymousreply 92October 20, 2021 2:09 AM

Abraham Lincoln was trash too. Fuck him.

One white supremacist killed another white supremacist.

Who fucking cares. They're both dead now. Both were rotten to the fucking core. Two dead white men, Good!!!!

by Anonymousreply 93October 20, 2021 2:11 AM

R93 Do you know anything about non-white countries in the 1880s, and what they were like concerning human rights?

by Anonymousreply 94October 20, 2021 2:14 AM

^ 1800s

by Anonymousreply 95October 20, 2021 2:15 AM

R74- You say America is in decline as if that's a recent occurrence. America's standard of living peaked in 1973 which was also the year that our manufacturing peaked and we've been in decline ever since, although our cities in general were declining by the 1950's as middle class white people left them for the new suburbs. Our social cohesion as declined as well for decades. Identity politics has not been a good thing.

by Anonymousreply 96October 20, 2021 2:15 AM

[quote]Anatomy & Physiology

Oh, I see. You’re just an agist.

by Anonymousreply 97October 20, 2021 2:21 AM

Can R93 be banned?

by Anonymousreply 98October 20, 2021 2:22 AM

They’re like the bizarro Matt, who was banned, so let’s hope this person gets banned.

by Anonymousreply 99October 20, 2021 2:23 AM

R96 No, the problem has been the systemic issues in America and not fully seeing anyone who isn't white as full or real Americans.

If America doesn't fix its long standing problems, this country absolutely will be destroyed. And the blame will be on our elected officials and white America for not fixing the fucking problems in the US.

Historians tend to be right when they make these bold statements.

by Anonymousreply 100October 20, 2021 2:25 AM

All the cities in America will look just like Detroit before too long.

by Anonymousreply 101October 20, 2021 2:26 AM

America has always been a dictatorship for Native Americans and African Americans. From genocide to slavery to jim crow to systemic racism to a police state for black Americans to housing discrimination to disparities in education to mass incarnation and over sentencing to the way the police treated BLM protesters to hiw white insurrectionist were treated at the US capital building in DC.

None whites have been under attack by white America for centuries. But fir whatever reason, people want you band when you speak facts about American history and how white were always the ones leading the charge against anyone not white.

I guess that's to much truth fir some to hear!

None whites in America have been under attack at every turn throughout American history. And the fact that there's not a series effort to correct Americas wrongs & sins, will eventually be Americas spectacular downfall. This country won't even pass an anti lynching bill nor a police reform bill. This country's end is eminent. It won't live to see the end of the 21st century.

Most democracies die after 250 years anyway. It's just Americas turn now. This has been a rotten country from beginning to end.

by Anonymousreply 102October 20, 2021 2:42 AM

The real question is who voted for these clowns? Not anyone on this thread. Maybe it's all the illiterate immigrants we're letting into the country . . .

by Anonymousreply 103October 20, 2021 2:45 AM

Who gives a fuck? Move the statue in, a few years later move it out. Move it somewhere else, WHO ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THIS PETTY SHIT?

And why don't you have anything better to do with your time? Read a book. Take a walk. Fuck your partner. Fuck someone besides your partner. Do something besides whine about other people's statues and where they put them.

by Anonymousreply 104October 20, 2021 2:49 AM

[quote]and not fully seeing anyone who isn't white as full or real Americans.

Then how his it that as a group, the highest earners in the US are non-white?

[quote]Non whites have been under attack by white America for centuries.

Then shouldn't we be warning Mexicans, Africans and so forth to not come here?

by Anonymousreply 105October 20, 2021 2:52 AM

I’m waiting for the Harvey Milk bust to be taken down. I’m sure people will be just fine about that. All of sudden he’s an “evil” man.

by Anonymousreply 106October 20, 2021 2:53 AM

[quote]WHO ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THIS PETTY SHIT?

Exactly. The idiots who want to move the statue are as petty as you can get.

by Anonymousreply 107October 20, 2021 2:54 AM

Yes remove history and identity—who cares. Look over here!

by Anonymousreply 108October 20, 2021 2:55 AM

America is a Fake country anyway.

by Anonymousreply 109October 20, 2021 2:57 AM

You learned all you know about "history and identity" from a statue of Thomas Jefferson in New York.

Bull-fucking-shit. You Nazi fuckers have got to go. I thought you were all moving to the freedumb center of Somalia, what happened to that plan?

Or you could try to get into Germany and the neo-Nazis you whiny bunch of cunts.

by Anonymousreply 110October 20, 2021 2:59 AM

You’re extremist^.

by Anonymousreply 111October 20, 2021 3:02 AM

I'd like to see a John Lewis statue/monument in Washington DC. If anyone deserves to be commemorated, it's John Lewis.

He deserves a monument just as grand as Abraham Lincolns. He did a lot for civil & voting rights to make sure people can vote in this country.

I'd like to see that materialize!

by Anonymousreply 112October 20, 2021 3:04 AM

I'd love to see a statue of John Lewis. He does not loom as large in the American political firmament as President Lincoln or MLK but he looms large and should definitely have a statue.

by Anonymousreply 113October 20, 2021 3:24 AM

R113 we need to work to make that happen than. John Lewis should definitely have a monument in DC.

We need to lobby congress to materialize that.

by Anonymousreply 114October 20, 2021 3:28 AM

R71, you don't know much about history, do you? Please try to educate yourself before you continue to make a fool of yourself.

Suggested research, but the topics will make you VERY uncomfortable: the islamic conquest, the Hindu holocaust, the whole story about slavery in human history, the whole story about indigenous people in the Americas (wars, slavery, genocide, cannibalism to name some highlights), the mass murder by communists in China, Vietnam, North Korea and Cambodia, the incredible brutality of imperial Japan.

Probably hopeless, you seem to have the intellect of a 16 year old.

by Anonymousreply 115October 20, 2021 3:44 AM

R115, my dear, he/she probably IS a 16 year old. This is the internet...

by Anonymousreply 116October 20, 2021 3:49 AM

R102, instead of spouting ideology, why don't you start living in the real world, you know the place where there are facts. Here is how systemically racist America is....

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by Anonymousreply 117October 20, 2021 3:53 AM

R115 R116 white people are still not innocent. No matter how much you wanna point fingers at others for what happened in America.

by Anonymousreply 118October 20, 2021 3:54 AM

Americas history is still real, and no amount of deflection will ever change that.

White people have done a lot to damage none whites. And that's a fact to many people want to deflect from.

by Anonymousreply 119October 20, 2021 3:56 AM

Oh, look, R102!!! There are actually black millionaires and billionaires in systemically racist America....

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by Anonymousreply 120October 20, 2021 3:56 AM

R118, nobody is innocent you fool! That's the point.

by Anonymousreply 121October 20, 2021 3:58 AM

Tawwmmy!!

by Anonymousreply 122October 20, 2021 4:00 AM

Did they ask his mixed race descendants if it's what they want?

by Anonymousreply 123October 20, 2021 4:01 AM

White America still showed its evol by giving us 4 years of Trump.

Another stain on white America. And black billionaires in America is still not stopping the prevention of police killings of black people in America. Many things can be true at once assholes.

by Anonymousreply 124October 20, 2021 4:03 AM

[quote] shut up you Republican ninny.

I'm a Democrat, you blathering nincompoop.

by Anonymousreply 125October 20, 2021 4:05 AM

[quote] Another stain on white America. And black billionaires in America is still not stopping the prevention of police killings of black people in America. Many things can be true at once assholes.

Fuck off, you stupid fuck. Take your "white America" shit and shove it way up your ass. Your racism is showing.

by Anonymousreply 126October 20, 2021 4:11 AM

[quote] [R68] Have you seen the horrible shitvdone by white men/people in history? It's not pretty!

Is genocide only bad when committed by white people, r71?

How about slavery? Did you know the slaves bought by Europeans in Africa and shipped to the American colonies were people enslaved by other Africans and sold by African (or sometimes Arab) slavers?

Did you know that non-white people across the world are currently carrying on campaigns of genocide or terror?

So the question is, what agenda are you pushing to criticize only the bad acts of white people?

by Anonymousreply 127October 20, 2021 4:19 AM

People living in this country are going to have to come to grips with the fact the US was established by imperfect people. If you're living here, have a job, a roof over your head, food on the table etc... it's because imperfect people hundreds of years ago set into motion events that allowed you to exist here today.

Should the imperfections of the founding fathers be highlighted? Yes, because we can learn that some of what they've done shouldn't be repeated. Should we erase them and the good? Nope. They're part of our history. Get over it and move on.

And if you're that distraught about what they've done then stop benefitting from the legacy they've left and sell your shit and move to a country that was unaffected by colonialism.

by Anonymousreply 128October 20, 2021 4:22 AM

As long as they don't cancel "Slave To the Rhythm".

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by Anonymousreply 129October 20, 2021 4:29 AM

[quote]What exactly will replace America that will be better for everybody?

A collection of states held together by an arrangement similar to the EU. In effect each state will become a country with the less populated states absorbed by a neighboring state. We're too ideologically divided as a country to exist as a Republic. Texas can keep its backwoods way of life while states like NY will not have to abide by a conservative SCOTUS.

by Anonymousreply 130October 20, 2021 4:42 AM

[quote] People living in this country are going to have to come to grips with the fact the US was established by imperfect people.

Please provide a list of all the nations established by perfect people. We’ll wait.

by Anonymousreply 131October 20, 2021 5:14 AM

The rhythm nation.

by Anonymousreply 132October 20, 2021 5:14 AM

Can’t we just know the Founding Fathers were not flawless and move on?

by Anonymousreply 133October 20, 2021 5:21 AM

I always find it so interesting how in these conversations about race (ostensibly) how woefully myopic it is to focus on actual race.

This issues is NOT: White = BAD. POC = GOOD.

It's power. Race becomes a way to assert power for sure. But power is the real issue.

He or she who has it, more often than not, abuses it. That's the issue.

It's why CEOs are all too often abusive assholes. Not because they're white or black. But because they're powerful.

Ditto Harvey Weinstein and R Kelly.

Ditto Leona Helmsey and Donald Trump.

Ditto the Africans who sold their own people to Dutch merchants and ditto the White Southerners who bought them.

by Anonymousreply 134October 20, 2021 5:25 AM

[quote]Please provide a list of all the nations established by perfect people. We’ll wait.

What a stupid fucking response. How is this even relevant to people complaining about statues dedicated to THIS country's founding fathers?

by Anonymousreply 135October 20, 2021 5:39 AM

Listen to Kemi Badenoch discuss Black History Month & Critical Race Theory and those they honor in her home country of Benin.

She is having none of this only the perfect should be honored with statues.

The whole speech is excellent but the pertinent part starts at 7 minutes.

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by Anonymousreply 136October 20, 2021 5:53 AM

White people have been moralless althoughout American history.

There will never be any justice on stolen land, which is why America will eventually fall. It refuses to deal with the sins of its past and the current shitshow it finds itself in.

Trump is the perfect example of the pure evilness of white America and the fact that it will never hold itself accountable for the sins it continues to perpetuate, without zero remorse.

by Anonymousreply 137October 20, 2021 6:50 AM

[quote]Whatever will we do about Mount Rushmore?

Ka-boom!

by Anonymousreply 138October 20, 2021 6:54 AM

I'm sure George Washington is burning in hell. He wouldn't even free his slaves on his death bed. They had to wait for his racist white supremacist wife to die before they could be free.

And than probably then, still wasn't free. He also rotated his slaves every six months in Philadelphia, or they would become eligible to be freed. But he always sent them back down south when it reached that point. And sent for new servant slaves to work for &and serve him.

Washington was an evil white man through and through. A true white supremacist.

by Anonymousreply 139October 20, 2021 6:55 AM

Rushmore is a monument to racism and white supremacy. It absolutely should be destroyed.

The Native Americans hat Mount Rushmore.

by Anonymousreply 140October 20, 2021 6:58 AM

It’s easy to blame statues and men who died centuries ago for your problems. Try studying hard, working hard, being a responsible parent and a good citizen in your community. You’ll see how easy it will be to succeed.

We all have advantages and disadvantages. Some people with brown and black skin come to the US with nothing more than a good work ethic and become multimillionaires and raise well educated children.

Get over yourselves and put in the effort. Anyone can succeed in the US.

by Anonymousreply 141October 20, 2021 3:19 PM

[quote]White people have been moralless althoughout American history.

You talk like a bigot.

by Anonymousreply 142October 20, 2021 6:08 PM

[quote] White people have been moralless althoughout American history.

[quote] You talk like a bigot.

Actually, the asshole talks like retard. Just some retarded troll, I guess.

by Anonymousreply 143October 20, 2021 9:18 PM

[quote] Washington was an evil white man through and through. A true white supremacist.

Oh shut the hell up, you retarded asshole.

by Anonymousreply 144October 20, 2021 9:20 PM

Try harder, troll. You need to post about 3,874 more times trying to rile anybody up about a statue, lol

by Anonymousreply 145October 20, 2021 9:54 PM

Next, Che Guevara, George Floyd, and Tupac Shakur on Mt. Rushmore as replacements.

by Anonymousreply 146October 20, 2021 11:57 PM

[quote]t’s easy to blame statues and men who died centuries ago for your problems. Try studying hard, working hard, being a responsible parent and a good citizen in your community. You’ll see how easy it will be to succeed.

Seriously. Stop acting like a bunch of pack animals and try to better yourselves. Stop blaming everybody else for your problems.

by Anonymousreply 147October 21, 2021 12:46 AM

[quote] Biden hung up a portrait of Jefferson in the Oval Office

an impeachable offense, apparently

by Anonymousreply 148October 21, 2021 1:44 AM

[quote] —I feel like Jefferson would agree with this

Don't feel. Think!

by Anonymousreply 149October 21, 2021 1:49 AM

I don't think Jefferson would agree with this.

He followed the sentiments about an orderly, modern, 18th century society.

'The rich man in his castle (Monticello) The poor man at his gate' says social positions have been ordained by God. Society is ordered and upheld by Divine providence.

by Anonymousreply 150October 21, 2021 1:58 AM

[quote] Next, we’ll have reeducation camps.

We already do. Except they're called universities.

by Anonymousreply 151October 21, 2021 2:04 AM

r150: except Jefferson had no use for Christianity or any religion. and thought they should remain far removed from government.

by Anonymousreply 152October 21, 2021 3:16 AM

He was right r152.

by Anonymousreply 153October 21, 2021 3:41 AM

[quote] I'm sure George Washington is burning in hell. He wouldn't even free his slaves on his death bed.

Were they his? I thought they were his wife's or belonged to the estate.

by Anonymousreply 154October 21, 2021 5:23 AM

[quote]I'm sure George Washington is burning in hell. He wouldn't even free his slaves on his death bed.

Troll lies. He freed all of the slaves that he legally could in his will. Some of the slaves at Mount Vernon had belonged to Martha Washington's deceased first husband and she inherited them with his estate. Those slaves belonged to that estate, not to her and George Washington. When Martha died, those slaves were sent to her first husband's relatives.

by Anonymousreply 155October 21, 2021 2:31 PM

I totally don't care about any Jefferson statue in NYC. He has a ton of memorials all over the place. We deify him in history class.

Save that space for someone else.

by Anonymousreply 156October 21, 2021 2:32 PM

I’m not a big statue person myself. I can do without all statues. Many cultures do.

by Anonymousreply 157October 21, 2021 2:53 PM

We need more monuments to African Americans and Native Americans. They've contributed plenty to America.

I'm in full support of this.

by Anonymousreply 158October 21, 2021 2:54 PM

Here's the ultimate problematic sculpture:

Christopher Columbus (1867) by Edmonia Lewis, an African-American/Native American female sculptor.

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by Anonymousreply 159October 21, 2021 3:01 PM

I never liked Jefferson. I'm a history buff, but I think this is wrong. I think our founders all had their flaws, but they were our founders. The statues I object to are the ones installed in the 40's, 50's and 60's of Civil War heroes and secessionists from the Civil War. Those people were traitors.

by Anonymousreply 160October 21, 2021 3:08 PM

[quote]We need more monuments to African Americans and Native Americans. They've contributed plenty to America.

[quote]I'm in full support of this.

You don't need to remove a statue to add new ones. Both old and new can coexist.

by Anonymousreply 161October 21, 2021 3:24 PM

I really don't give a fuck. This country is going to implode soon, than we'll have new founders of a new country. And jefferson along with all the other white supremacist founders won't matter anymore.

This country was founded on the genocide and murder of others. Countries like that don't last forever, because those types of countries refuse to address its past honesty. There's way to much infighting in America as a result of it.

America is destined to be destroyed from within. The groundwork for that was set long ago. Greed racism and injustice & throw Trumpism in there, will be America's undoing.

It's simply unsustainable at this point.

by Anonymousreply 162October 21, 2021 3:26 PM

The wingnut bots can't address themselves to why Jefferson was there in the first place. He professed to hate cities and New York was the seat of government for a very short time.

Go back to your sill threads about non-existent shortages.

by Anonymousreply 163October 21, 2021 3:48 PM

Yes, Jefferson hates NYC and all it stood for. He worked hard to push resources to farming areas which (not coincidentally) he was from.

by Anonymousreply 164October 21, 2021 3:51 PM

[quote]You don't need to remove a statue to add new ones. Both old and new can coexist.

They don’t want that.

by Anonymousreply 165October 21, 2021 3:57 PM

[quote] You don't need to remove a statue to add new ones. Both old and new can coexist.

They can, but we don't need to clutter the world with statue after statue, especially statues that don't have much significant in the current day.

by Anonymousreply 166October 21, 2021 4:20 PM

So just put up black and brown statues.

by Anonymousreply 167October 21, 2021 4:23 PM

[quote]They can, but we don't need to clutter the world with statue after statue,

Yes, because statue clutter such a huge problem. 🙄

by Anonymousreply 168October 21, 2021 4:47 PM

[quote] . Countries like that don't last forever, because those types of countries refuse to address its past honesty.

That's simply not true. We have addressed it over and over again. It just didn't satisfy some people. But like so many dissidents, they keep pushing for more and more when the country has said, No, that's enough. Like a parent who has to stop you from overeating or overdoing anything lest you harm yourself.

Yes, some people are really interested in tearing down the country based on their personal grievances or issues. Because they don't believe in democracy. They actively DO NOT BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY. They actually see democracy as evil. Well, that's too bad because that's what we have and it ain't going anywhere.

We have as much as we have in this country in terms of freedom, safety, benefits of scientific and medical advances, health, wealth, housing, social welfare programs, employment, education, arts, leisure, political participation, opportunity, and more than that, precisely BECAUSE we are a capitalist democracy. That is what has worked. It gets bettered all the time in ways that the majority usually agrees on. THAT is how a country lasts.

by Anonymousreply 169October 21, 2021 4:49 PM

R169 You just said democracy isn't going away. You better go have a talk with Republicans. They're actively working to end American democracy as we speak!

So don't be so sure.

by Anonymousreply 170October 21, 2021 5:34 PM

You don’t care R170. Stop.

by Anonymousreply 171October 21, 2021 5:39 PM

Sorry R37 but there’s no evidence I ever wrote or said that. But I did say this about New York City: “[A] city life offers you indeed more means of dissipating time, but more frequent also, and more painful objects of vice and wretchedness. New York, for example, like London, seems to be a Cloacina of all the depravities of human nature.” The stockjobbers can do what they please with my statue. I hate that city.

by Anonymousreply 172October 21, 2021 6:02 PM

[quote]I'm sure George Washington is burning in hell. He wouldn't even free his slaves on his death bed. They had to wait for his racist white supremacist wife to die before they could be free.

Actually, he did free the slaves *he* owned, but most of the slaves were owned by the Custis family, therefore, he was in no position to free them. Martha actually did free her slaves before her death because since she was the only thing standing, she was afraid her life was in danger.

I recently read "Washington: A Life" and it really gives insight into the mindset of people like Washington & Jefferson who were outwardly at least against slavery; first and foremost, they cared about their social position and slaves often had considerable value. When Jefferson died, the slaves were sold because he was basically broke at that point & it was the only real asset the family had. Washington - and probably Jefferson too - viewed his slaves as child-like; people who didn't have the skills or intelligence to make it on their own. Washington tended to treat his slaves well, ensuring they had food & medical care, so he probably justified it by figuring they'd be worse off on their own or misused by someone less generous.

That certainly doesn't justify the horrors of slavery but judged by their time, Jefferson or Washington probably would've been considered indulgent or moderate by other southern slave holders.

by Anonymousreply 173October 21, 2021 6:51 PM

[quote] Yes, because statue clutter such a huge problem.

It becomes a problem if we just add new statues everywhere. There are so many statues that were put up because they were important at the time, but not anymore.

Columbus is a perfect example. There are scores of Columbus statues all over the US, a place he has absolutely no connection to.

by Anonymousreply 174October 21, 2021 7:18 PM

The Confederate statues were mainly put up in the early 1900's as a direct challenge to calls for Black equality.

They mean nothing to anyone now. Get rid of them

by Anonymousreply 175October 21, 2021 7:19 PM

[quote]It becomes a problem if we just add new statues everywhere

Aw, precious, we have plenty of space. And , it may surprise you, but your opinion isn't universal. You may deem people irrelevant that others still hold in high regard...hence adding statues instead of removing.

by Anonymousreply 176October 21, 2021 7:27 PM

Washington had one of the best chefs in America at that time...he was a slave named Caesar, and Washington did everything in his power to obstruct and deny him his promised freedom. Later in his life, Somehow, Caesar managed to escape and it was rumored he lived out his days as a chef cooking for rich people in NYC...all of whom knew he had been Washington's slave/chef, and that Washington was a selfish, vindictive prick. True Story.

by Anonymousreply 177October 21, 2021 7:33 PM

[quote]Washington had one of the best chefs in America at that time...he was a slave named Caesar,

Did he invent the Caesar Salad?

by Anonymousreply 178October 21, 2021 7:38 PM

BIG OOPS. Soy. I got the name wrong. Caesar was another famous Black chef, of that time but George Washington's personal slave chef was Hercules Posey.

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by Anonymousreply 179October 21, 2021 7:43 PM

"Sorry" not Soy.....

by Anonymousreply 180October 21, 2021 7:44 PM

Tremate, tremate, le streghe son' tornate.

by Anonymousreply 181October 21, 2021 7:47 PM

Most of your post is fiction, R177. He escaped to NY and that was about it.

by Anonymousreply 182October 21, 2021 7:48 PM

[quote] Aw, precious, we have plenty of space.

Yes, we have plenty of space but we don't need to fill the space with new statues

by Anonymousreply 183October 21, 2021 7:52 PM

Statues are forbidden in many places. I’m fine with that. I was nauseated by all the Lenin statues in USSR. PS - the further east you went, the more slanted his eyes were, no lie. By the time we got to Tajikistan he looked Chinese.

by Anonymousreply 184October 21, 2021 7:53 PM

R184, as far as Lenin was concerned, you know that always happens when you have too much work done...

by Anonymousreply 185October 21, 2021 8:38 PM

People that put today’s sensitivities on people who lived 200 years ago are really mentally retarded

by Anonymousreply 186October 21, 2021 8:47 PM

It's fuckin' retahded.

by Anonymousreply 187October 21, 2021 9:34 PM

[quote] I really don't give a fuck. This country is going to implode soon, than we'll have new founders of a new country. And jefferson along with all the other white supremacist founders won't matter anymore.

You are a retard, or a a crazy troll. Just go kill yourself already, you yammering fuck.

by Anonymousreply 188October 21, 2021 9:56 PM

"Washington had one of the best chefs in America at that time...he was a slave named Caesar, and Washington did everything in his power to obstruct and deny him his promised freedom. Later in his life, Somehow, Caesar managed to escape and it was rumored he lived out his days as a chef cooking for rich people in NYC...all of whom knew he had been Washington's slave/chef, and that Washington was a selfish, vindictive prick. True Story."

Washington's chef was named Hercules Posey, you dumbass. He did escape and lived in New York but no evidence exists that Washington was a "selfish, vindictive prick." Actually you sound more like a prick than Washington ever was.

by Anonymousreply 189October 21, 2021 10:07 PM

R188 I just ate a burrito. Come over and suck it out of my ass. I’m not a troll, just stating fact. People need to put this stuff in perspective.

by Anonymousreply 190October 21, 2021 11:28 PM

R189, I'd like to call your attention to R179. And yes, Washington was a selfish, vindictive prick when it came to Hercules, and if your readings of history took you beyond Wiki pages you might discover that for yourself. Also, you really need to take something to calm yourself. Your overwrought response to my comment and your obvious hostility, is completely disproportionate to the situation at hand.

by Anonymousreply 191October 22, 2021 12:33 AM

[quote] I’m not a troll, just stating fact.

No, you're just a asshole who is unhinged and an idiot. That is exactly what you are.

by Anonymousreply 192October 22, 2021 12:38 AM

[quote] Also, you really need to take something to calm yourself. Your overwrought response to my comment and your obvious hostility, is completely disproportionate to the situation at hand.

My, aren't you the delicate, sensitive little flower. Nothing I said approaches being "overwrought." I just call 'em like I see "em, and you, sweet pea, sound like a real prick.

by Anonymousreply 193October 22, 2021 12:43 AM

Oh dear, the last two posts make me wonder if Jefferson and Washington had to cope with so much pettiness in their dealings while in the process of founding a nation. Their domestic servants' situation probably occupied the smallest amount of their worries.

by Anonymousreply 194October 22, 2021 4:03 AM
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