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Happy heavenly 101st to gay martyr Montgomery Clift

The best of the big three method actors, barely remembered today compared to Brando or Dean.

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by Anonymousreply 510November 20, 2021 7:14 PM

I always thought he was the most handsome actor from that era. He was still drop-dead handsome even after his reconstructive surgery.

by Anonymousreply 1October 17, 2021 5:39 PM

He was adorable in his cub years.

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by Anonymousreply 2October 17, 2021 5:40 PM

Happy birthday, Monty - and I agree, OP, he was the best - and my favorite. Though all three were very good. I've never been a big Brando fan. I always loved Dean. But Clift was a fantastic actor. He was also the best looking of the three.

by Anonymousreply 3October 17, 2021 5:41 PM

Abs

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by Anonymousreply 4October 17, 2021 5:48 PM

Wow! He looks FANTASTIC for 101.

He could be a DLer. 101, but pass for 31.

by Anonymousreply 5October 17, 2021 5:49 PM

Smoking hot.

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by Anonymousreply 6October 17, 2021 5:50 PM

My parents should’ve figured things out earlier when, as a mere child, I wept inconsolably when Monty went to the electric chair in A Place in the Sun.

by Anonymousreply 7October 17, 2021 5:52 PM

Montgomery Clift is just not a relatable actor. He always seems like he's about to fall apart and there's something so studied about his every move. "The Method" as an acting idea often produces this weirdness in its insistence that the actor worry himself with the unseen minutia of the character even just to walk into the scene, pour a cup of coffee and light a cigarette. This results in the simple action appearing exhausting and over-examined.

That's why I think Clift was occasionally compelling, but ultimately forgotten.

by Anonymousreply 8October 17, 2021 5:53 PM

R7 SPOILER ALERT, GIRL!!

by Anonymousreply 9October 17, 2021 5:56 PM

[quote]Montgomery Clift is just not a relatable actor. He always seems like he's about to fall apart and there's something so studied about his every move.

This is total bullshit to me. In From Here To Etertnity (for ex.) he was probably the most relatable actor I ever saw. Exuded confidence, and was very natural.

by Anonymousreply 10October 17, 2021 5:58 PM

He look like an attractive version of Zachary Quinto.

by Anonymousreply 11October 17, 2021 5:59 PM

Happy birthday to Pink Princess Tinymeat!

by Anonymousreply 12October 17, 2021 6:00 PM

Best looking of the three r3?!

Marlon Brando in his prime was walking sex. A Street Car Named Desire? It was almost distracting how hot he was.

by Anonymousreply 13October 17, 2021 6:01 PM

R8 I respectfully disagree with you. He is insanely compelling in a majority of his films - The Search, Red River, A Place in the Sun, From Here to Eternity, and Judgment At Nuremberg are all acting masterclasses. Very few actors who followed have touched that specific kind of naturalism - Brando is one, but there was always an undercurrent of brutality to him that made me like sensitive Clift more. The Misfits is my favorite performance of Monty's, and my favorite scene of his below.

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by Anonymousreply 14October 17, 2021 6:02 PM

I agree he was the best of three--he did not twitch like Dean nor mumble like Brando. They were both hunkier, but he was so handsome.

by Anonymousreply 15October 17, 2021 6:02 PM

Some great pics in this album.

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by Anonymousreply 16October 17, 2021 6:21 PM

Mystery guest on WML.

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by Anonymousreply 17October 17, 2021 6:22 PM

An interview around the same time as WML.

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by Anonymousreply 18October 17, 2021 6:24 PM

“Happy birthday to Pink Princess Tinymeat!”

Really? What about his Clift hangers?

by Anonymousreply 19October 17, 2021 6:26 PM

Happy Birthday! We loved you well, as we know you loved us!

by Anonymousreply 20October 17, 2021 7:15 PM

Best looking of the three [R3]?! Marlon Brando in his prime was walking sex. A Street Car Named Desire? It was almost distracting how hot he was.

Yeah, Brando was hot. He even had a handsome face, and a cute smile - but I find Monty much better looking. He had a really beautiful male face. Even aftrer his accident when he wasn't overly handsome, his face appeals to me. *shrugs*

R14 I love his performance in The Misfits. I don't know anyone else who could have played it like that. He was very funny in the comedic parts, but also, that phone call with his mom - he really understood that scene. What a brilliant actor, he could make the audience understand so much. Another great performance of his that isn't seen a lot was in The Big Lift (1950). (About the Berlin Airlift.) Really different performance, for him, very loose and casual, and real.

by Anonymousreply 21October 17, 2021 7:39 PM

R21 Interesting you mention his comedic talent, because I wish he'd done at least one good funny film role, but I guess he was pigeonholed in "brooding young man" from the jump. Apparently he was in a number of comedies on Broadway (and Jubilee, the Cole Porter musical nobody remembers) including Thorton Wilder's The Skin of Our Teeth with THE Tallulah Bankhead! I'd kill for a recording of that......

by Anonymousreply 22October 17, 2021 8:23 PM

He’s so handsome in “The Search”

by Anonymousreply 23October 17, 2021 8:37 PM

I love the scene in A Place In The Sun where he's trying to explain himself and his background to his girlfriend's father. It's really fine acting.

by Anonymousreply 24October 17, 2021 8:47 PM

He looks very much like a young Sean Connery (or young Sean Connery looks like him) in photo #3 in R16’s linked album.

by Anonymousreply 25October 17, 2021 8:58 PM

OP Why call him a gay martyr? He made his choices; he lived his life; he died.

And he was a wonderful actor. Never cared for Dean; Brando was devastating in a few roles, but made a lot of shite, too.

by Anonymousreply 26October 17, 2021 8:59 PM

That's a very rough 42 represented in the links to R17 & 18.

by Anonymousreply 27October 17, 2021 9:01 PM

Well he died at 45.

by Anonymousreply 28October 17, 2021 9:05 PM

He was one of the most strikingly handsome men to ever grace the screen.

by Anonymousreply 29October 17, 2021 9:18 PM

Not well known, he is buried in a very old and small Quaker cemetery surrounded by a gated fence deep in the woods of Prospect Park in Brooklyn that predates the park. Without the right credentials, it’s almost impossible to get in to visit the grave.

by Anonymousreply 30October 17, 2021 9:22 PM

R30 Is that common? I don't think I've ever ran across a cemetery that is closed to the public.

by Anonymousreply 31October 17, 2021 9:28 PM

[quote]I don't think I've ever ran across

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 32October 17, 2021 9:31 PM

R31 you can appeal to a Quaker committee to visit, but from what I know saying you want to visit his grave, unless you are a family member and can prove it, will not get you in. Obviously, if you are Quaker raises your chances of visitation too. I do think there are private cemeteries, especially on private lands which can exclude visitors, especially highly or orthodox religious ones.

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by Anonymousreply 33October 17, 2021 9:38 PM

R26 I say "gay martyr" partially joking (the man reportedly loved insane amounts of anonymous rough sex) and partially serious because he died in the stupid, senseless way many fellow gay men of his era did - as a result of substance abuse problems somewhat brought upon by the mental strain of mid-century society. Many famed gays from his time were alcoholics and/or pill heads. It's depressing that he had superficially everything, but it was wasted away.

by Anonymousreply 34October 17, 2021 9:43 PM

I Married Monty

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by Anonymousreply 35October 17, 2021 9:45 PM

[quote]Is that common? I don't think I've ever ran across a cemetery that is closed to the public.

There are three in my town alone. Two are Jewish cemeteries and one has very old graves frm the 1700s.

by Anonymousreply 36October 17, 2021 9:48 PM

R36 I have just never encountered one, unless it is a private family one on private land. I've never seen a religious one that was closed, it just seems strange.

by Anonymousreply 37October 17, 2021 9:53 PM

Well,’some are closed because people are dying to get in.

*rim shot*

by Anonymousreply 38October 17, 2021 9:56 PM

R32 What is wrong with that? Written out without contractions it is "I do not think I have ran across." As I was speaking about how it hasn't happened in the past, the past tense is perfectly fine.

by Anonymousreply 39October 17, 2021 9:58 PM

When I was a kid, I lived down the street from his twin sister in Austin. Years later I read a bio of Monty and discovered he lived on and off with her in Austin for years. If only I'd known...

by Anonymousreply 40October 17, 2021 9:59 PM

“I don’t think I have run across.”

by Anonymousreply 41October 17, 2021 9:59 PM

R39, you don’t want the past tense, you want the past participle, which was the error in your sentence.

The past participle of run is—wait for it—run.

Go figure.

by Anonymousreply 42October 17, 2021 10:02 PM

Happy Birthday Montgomery Clift...and Happy Birthday Marsha Hunt, 104 years young today.

by Anonymousreply 43October 17, 2021 10:07 PM

The woods around the Friends cemetery are not that dense and also they were a super active outdoor cruising grounds in the 80s. OH, good times! Never a shady encounter and it was the ideal melting pot.

by Anonymousreply 44October 17, 2021 10:10 PM

But, ONLY in the daylight. I tried once or twice to go into the woods in Prospect Park at night and they felt EVIL. Also, I would frequently find, cruising during the day, the remains of Santeria ceremonies in the woods.

by Anonymousreply 45October 17, 2021 10:11 PM

[quote] But, ONLY in the daylight. I tried once or twice to go into the woods in Prospect Park at night and they felt EVIL.

Of course. It’s a graveyard.

by Anonymousreply 46October 17, 2021 10:14 PM

It's almost too fitting Monty's burial site became a cruising ground.

by Anonymousreply 47October 17, 2021 10:14 PM

R45 Brooklyn near the park in the 90s had a lot of left over Santeria shit obvious in the morning after.

by Anonymousreply 48October 17, 2021 10:16 PM

Today they'd demand near total deforestation of his body below the neck and they'd wax or pluck those brows into submission.

So depressing about the tinymeat. Do we have verificatia? Or is it just a rumor started by someone ugly in the face?

by Anonymousreply 49October 17, 2021 10:21 PM

Most importantly, are there nudes?

by Anonymousreply 50October 17, 2021 10:23 PM

R49 It was started by Kenneth Anger (perhaps he was rejected by Monty back in the day), so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Either way, he seems to have leaned towards bottoming, so it's a moot point, especially when you consider everything else he had going on!

by Anonymousreply 51October 17, 2021 10:24 PM

This is an interesting article about Clift.

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by Anonymousreply 52October 17, 2021 10:25 PM

I think his looks combine well with tiny meat. Nothing wrong with a gorgeous small guy with tiny meat.

by Anonymousreply 53October 17, 2021 10:28 PM

How big was his estate at the time of his death? He didn't have a large body of work on the screen. So I wonder how well did he do in the earning department during his film career.

by Anonymousreply 54October 17, 2021 10:28 PM

Eleanor Cliff’s BIL.

by Anonymousreply 55October 17, 2021 10:35 PM

[quote] he seems to have leaned towards bottoming,

Do you have any witnesses to that assertion?

by Anonymousreply 56October 17, 2021 10:35 PM

[quote]Today they'd demand near total deforestation of his body below the neck and they'd wax or pluck those brows into submission.

They did back then.

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by Anonymousreply 57October 17, 2021 10:40 PM

R52, I don't buy that he was completely okay with being gay. There are several stories in Bosworth's biography that demonstrate his unease with being gay and being seen as gay. Like when he literally ran into a closet one time when a friend showed up at his house unannounced and caught him in bed with his male lovers or how he flew from New York to L.A. on a 24 hour flight and back again just to ask his agent if he told so-and-so if he was gay. People who are confident in their sexuality don't do that. Also he was seeing a psychiatrist about his homosexuality, don't know why his nephew glossed over that.

by Anonymousreply 58October 17, 2021 10:51 PM

Dear OP, who invented the phrase "gay martyr"?

Tell us how.

by Anonymousreply 59October 17, 2021 10:53 PM

Clift is gorgeous in OP's pic

by Anonymousreply 60October 17, 2021 10:55 PM

[quote] Dear OP, who invented the phrase "gay martyr"?Tell us how.

Why would OP necessarily know that?

Tell us why.

by Anonymousreply 61October 17, 2021 10:55 PM

[quote] Clift is gorgeous in OP's pic

His big hairy thigh curving to meet his ass is really sexy.

by Anonymousreply 62October 17, 2021 10:56 PM

[quote][R52], I don't buy that he was completely okay with being gay. There are several stories in Bosworth's biography that demonstrate his unease with being gay and being seen as gay. Like when he literally ran into a closet one time when a friend showed up at his house unannounced and caught him in bed with his male lovers or how he flew from New York to L.A. on a 24 hour flight and back again just to ask his agent if he told so-and-so if he was gay. People who are confident in their sexuality don't do that. Also he was seeing a psychiatrist about his homosexuality, don't know why his nephew glossed over that.

The nephew went too far in the other direction in his attempt to correct the record.

by Anonymousreply 63October 17, 2021 10:57 PM

No one really wants to be gay. You can't help what you're born as, everyone just does the best they can. Being gay is a tough life!

by Anonymousreply 64October 17, 2021 11:01 PM

Agree with you, R63. I feel like the truth about his feelings toward his sexuality was in the middle. He was most likely comfortable about it to the gay circles he ran in as well as close friends like Elizabeth Taylor, and worried about it otherwise. It was probably an open secret/common gossip in Hollywood to some extent. Lots of anecdotes about people being homophobic to him on movie sets.

The newer documentary came off as very sleazy to me, especially because he didn't trust that side of family. The archival footage of him was lovely, but his brother and nephew come off as narcissistic creeps. The fact his twin sister (who he seems to have been closer to) hasn't come out for any biography or doc involving him speaks volumes to me.

by Anonymousreply 65October 17, 2021 11:02 PM

A martyr is someone who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.

Monty was no martyr.

by Anonymousreply 66October 17, 2021 11:03 PM

R64 Also this was someone who was born in 1920.

by Anonymousreply 67October 17, 2021 11:04 PM

I thought this was a very good documentary - old, but informative.

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by Anonymousreply 68October 17, 2021 11:10 PM

(Made while most of the people who were close to him were alive and could be interviewed. Actually the whole documentary is comprised of interviews.)

by Anonymousreply 69October 17, 2021 11:21 PM

This book is a must read for Liz and Monty fans.

by Anonymousreply 70October 17, 2021 11:25 PM

This book is a must read for Liz and Monty fans.

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by Anonymousreply 71October 17, 2021 11:25 PM

What happened to the movie Matt Bomer was supposed to do playing him?

by Anonymousreply 72October 17, 2021 11:26 PM

I’m always struck by how much he looks like Tom Cruise (or vice versa).

by Anonymousreply 73October 17, 2021 11:29 PM

On his best day, Tom Cruise never looked as good as Monty. William McNamara was, I thought, the one who most looked like him.

by Anonymousreply 74October 17, 2021 11:31 PM

Ugh. Tammy Cruise can only dream of having Monty's looks and talent.

by Anonymousreply 75October 18, 2021 1:20 AM

R51, Apparently, Monty's one time love interest, Ben Bagley, felt the need to recount this detail in Bosworth's biography:

According to Ben Bagley, Monty had a small penis and was extremely embarrassed about it. "He talked about it all the time to me," said record producer Bagley. "I think it was the secret tragedy of his life. A lot of homosexuals gossiped about Monty's problem because gays put great importance on the size of their cocks."

I don't think it was necessary for him to bring it up a decade later after it was already mentioned by Kenneth Anger and Monty was dead. It's really tacky on his part, after all he was Monty's lover at some point. And for some odd reason Monty's nephew brought it up again in his 2018 documentary on Monty, Why? That was one of the weird moments from the doc.

by Anonymousreply 76October 18, 2021 1:50 AM

Not even Monty would agree he was the better of the 3.

by Anonymousreply 77October 18, 2021 1:56 AM

R76 Bagley seems like a gossipy drama queen. He was probably bitter over being dumped and retaliated in the age-old way: claiming to as many as possible your ex has tinymeat. After all, who's going to check? I remember there was a poster here from a decade ago that said an old (and I mean OLD) friend of his hooked up with Monty in Italy and claimed his cock was perfectly average, nothing to write home about in size either way.

by Anonymousreply 78October 18, 2021 2:02 AM

Many homos are drama queens about cock size so smallish is "princess tiny meat" and large is "horse cock".

by Anonymousreply 79October 18, 2021 2:07 AM

My friend used to live on the same street in Midtown East where Monty lived (but a few blocks up). Every time I'd go visit my friend I would walk by Monty's place and think of him.

by Anonymousreply 80October 18, 2021 2:10 AM

Edward Montgomery Clift died when he was 45. The good die young.

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by Anonymousreply 81October 18, 2021 2:13 AM

Here is Monty playing around (not that way!) with Brando

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by Anonymousreply 82October 18, 2021 2:19 AM

[quote]My friend used to live on the same street in Midtown East where Monty lived (but a few blocks up).

On 61st Street. Just a couple of blocks up from the Seven Year Itch townhouse where Marilyn filmed exteriors.

by Anonymousreply 83October 18, 2021 2:45 AM

Montgomery Clift was an exceptionally talented, and a devastatingly beautiful man. Imagine Monty, Marlon Brando and Marilyn Monroe all hanging out together...THAT would be a very sexy and spectacular threesome.

by Anonymousreply 84October 18, 2021 4:04 AM

R84 Marilyn described Monty as “the only person I know who’s in worse shape than I am.”

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by Anonymousreply 85October 18, 2021 4:06 AM

R84 Marilyn described Monty as “the only person I know that is in worse shape than I am.”

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by Anonymousreply 86October 18, 2021 4:08 AM

He had a modern looking face and his acting and speech pattern were relatively modern for the time. Ive watched old movies and most feel like watching a shakespearean play to my ears.

by Anonymousreply 87October 18, 2021 4:15 AM

I've read in multiple sources he was drunk the entire week he filmed his role in "Judgment at Nuremberg".

Imagine being in a film where they've also hired Judy Garland yet everyone is more worried how YOU will manage to get through the shoot!

by Anonymousreply 88October 18, 2021 4:25 AM

Monty and Judy - both tremendous talents and tremendously screwed up (in part by their pushy stage mothers!) Would love to be a fly on the wall for their conversations.

by Anonymousreply 89October 18, 2021 4:32 AM

His last Broadway appearance was in Tennessee Williams and Donald Windham's adaptation of a D.H. Lawrence short story, "You Touched Me". It ran for a few months in 1944 and co-starred Edmund Gwenn. Clift looked great in uniform.

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by Anonymousreply 90October 18, 2021 4:43 AM

The centenary thread.

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by Anonymousreply 91October 18, 2021 4:50 AM

Wow looks at those legs!

by Anonymousreply 92October 18, 2021 4:52 AM

His gravestone:

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by Anonymousreply 93October 18, 2021 5:05 AM

R30. Thanks! Had no idea. NYC always amazes me.” In the early 1860s, Brooklyn’s civic leaders moved to create an urban park comparable to the newly-created Central Park in Manhattan. Commissioners acquired 585 acres of forest and farmland that were transformed into Prospect Park, which opened in 1867. The preexisting Friends Cemetery was located within the boundaries of the land laid out for Prospect Park and was retained as a private property of the Society of Friends to be used as their burial ground in perpetuity. In the 1950s the two branches of Quakers—Orthodox and Hicksite—reunited and today the New York Quarterly Meeting (NYQM) is the organizational body of the Friends of Manhattan and Brooklyn. The NYQM owns the Friends Cemetery in Prospect Park, the only active Quaker burial ground in New York City. Rarely open to the public, the cemetery is enclosed by a fence and protected by a locked gate just off the park’s Center Drive. ”

by Anonymousreply 94October 18, 2021 5:29 AM

Monty Clift was a protege of Alfred Lunt and Lynne Fontanne and spent 10 years honing his craft on the New York stage. He then joined the Actors Studio under the tutelage of Robert Lewis and Elia Kazan, then with Lee Strasberg after Lewis departed. Clift, however, became frustrated with Strasberg and left the Actors Studio. Like Brando, Clift didn't appreciate Strasberg, whom he later called a "charlatan," taking all the credit and instead cited his mentor, Alfred Lunt, as a big influence on his "naturalistic" approach to acting.

by Anonymousreply 95October 18, 2021 5:53 AM

Monty and Brando hated Strasberg. Though Brando never actually studied wth him, but with Stella Adler, who he adored.

by Anonymousreply 96October 18, 2021 5:56 AM

Young Monty with the Lunts.

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by Anonymousreply 97October 18, 2021 5:58 AM

Didn't Alfred Lunt tell him (in regard to being gay) to try to butch up and find an "understanding" woman? I've read that Lunts were a full on lavender marriage - both Alfred and Lynne played for the home team.

by Anonymousreply 98October 18, 2021 5:59 AM

R97 Sorry but those actors are Onslow Stevens and Jessie Royce Landis, who were in a play with Monty called Dame Nature. This is a picture of Monty with the Lunts in the play There Shall Be No Night, by Robert E. Sherwood.

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by Anonymousreply 99October 18, 2021 6:13 AM

R99, thanks. It was mislabeled and even I questioned it after posting.

by Anonymousreply 100October 18, 2021 6:17 AM

"He was still drop-dead handsome even after his reconstructive surgery"

No. Then he started drinking and drugging and his body atrophied, and his big bobble head looked 15 years older and ghoulish.

by Anonymousreply 101October 18, 2021 6:22 AM

R101 What did he ever do to you?

by Anonymousreply 102October 18, 2021 6:24 AM

I think he still looked handsome in The Misfits et al. He just looked older than his age and more rugged/character actor like.

by Anonymousreply 103October 18, 2021 6:25 AM

Brando dated Stella's daughter. Ellen Adler, when she was a teenager, and they remained friends until he died. Ellen recalled meeting Clift at a party she went to with Brando, and found that (unlike Brando):

Monty was so polite and charming, always with the match for the cigarette. Marlon stood it as long as he could, then came barging over and pulled me away. "She's my Jew, Monty," Marlon roared. Monty just grinned and shrugged.

by Anonymousreply 104October 18, 2021 6:31 AM

Surely the bisexual Marlon and Monty messed around at some point?

by Anonymousreply 105October 18, 2021 6:39 AM

Though I remember reading that Marlon wasn't fully aware of Monty being gay until after his death, but who knows.

by Anonymousreply 106October 18, 2021 6:41 AM

[quote] but who knows…

Most of the above 100 posts are fantasies of wishful thinking.

by Anonymousreply 107October 18, 2021 6:44 AM

R107 A majority of the posts in this thread are just commentary on his looks and the semantics of the graveyard he's buried in, with some discussion of sizemeat.

by Anonymousreply 108October 18, 2021 6:47 AM

What the fuck is with the frauish "heavenly" birthday bullshit, OP? If you're male, just cut it off.

by Anonymousreply 109October 18, 2021 6:52 AM

R109 = a butch, angry man

by Anonymousreply 110October 18, 2021 7:02 AM

R109 I assume it's just another way of saying he's dead (in heaven) and it's his birthday. Was. Yesterday.

by Anonymousreply 111October 18, 2021 5:34 PM

Were James Dean and Clift ever an item off record? I read in Clift's bio sometime in the early 50s he was seeing a young aspiring actor who was just starting out in show business. He lived with Clift for a short while in his spacious duplex. Clift gave him money and helped finance his career; landing him a role in a big Hollywood picture, Clift's friends didn't like the guy and said he was a dislikable punk with a very unattractive personality and was taking advantage of Clift.

No name was mentioned but the description really sounds like James Dean.

by Anonymousreply 112October 18, 2021 5:58 PM

R112 I've always read that Dean stalked Clift (and Brando) but Clift kept changing his number and would never respond to Dean's many, many phone calls.

by Anonymousreply 113October 18, 2021 6:01 PM

James Dean was only in three movies where he played a lead (though he had bits or nonspeaking roles in a few others (Sailor Beware, for ex.), I can't see how Clift could have gotten him into East Of Eden, his first big role on film.

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by Anonymousreply 114October 18, 2021 6:04 PM

Were Clift and Kevin McCarthy an item?

by Anonymousreply 115October 18, 2021 6:07 PM

R112 Dean and Clift never met. Clift threw up when he heard the news of Dean’s death and told Bill Gunn that Dean’s death had a profound impact on him.

by Anonymousreply 116October 18, 2021 6:09 PM

As opposed to all the other times he probably threw up

by Anonymousreply 117October 18, 2021 6:13 PM

R117 Way harsh, Tai.

by Anonymousreply 118October 18, 2021 6:14 PM

R116, That's interesting. Dean's death had a profound impact on him but they never met? Marlon Brando also denied ever knowing Dean but if it wasn't for those pictures of them together we probably would have believed him.

by Anonymousreply 119October 18, 2021 7:44 PM

In the interview linked up thread with Hy Gardner - who, ridiculously, seemed to take seriously rumored relationships with Elizabeth Taylor & Marilyn Monroe - Clift talks about a cordial relationship he had with Brando.

by Anonymousreply 120October 18, 2021 7:52 PM

At the beginning of his career, Paul Newman was often accused of imitating Brando by critics. I've read some of the reviews. That was forgotten as Newman became more popular than Brando. But I'm not sure why today he's always left out of the comparisons. He e didn't seen eccentric, and he wasn't really an acting genius. But he studied at the Actors Studio and was a method actor - he got several of the roles earmarked for Dean after Dean's death. The Left Handed Gun, and a few othews.

by Anonymousreply 121October 18, 2021 7:55 PM

R120 Why wouldn't he go for the Monroe/Taylor angle, as dumb as it obviously looked now? That interview took place in 1962, and being gay was still technically illegal in pretty much every state, even if attitudes were slowly changing. The first sodomy law was repealed in 1963! Of course he'd try to play up Monty's fag hags as something else for his sake.

by Anonymousreply 122October 18, 2021 8:06 PM

He was no longer at the peak of his career, after the car accident his career was on a down slide, he wasn't "hot property" for Hollywood anymore, so I guess there wouldn't have been a point in trying to fabricate a romance out of Elizabeth or Marilyn.

by Anonymousreply 123October 18, 2021 8:16 PM

Perhaps, R122, but that’s not to say that Gardner - no hayseed but a prominent entertainment columnist - would’ve been in the dark about the less than discreet Monty’s sexual escapades.

by Anonymousreply 124October 18, 2021 8:18 PM

R124 - That's exactly what I meant! I think Hy more than likely knew about Monty, so he tried to cover for him to the public, even if Monty didn't really bite.

I think he was somewhat trying for an Oscar nod and comeback with the Freud movie - he did TV promotion for it, and he hated doing interviews and PR.

by Anonymousreply 125October 18, 2021 8:20 PM

[quote]He was still drop-dead handsome even after his reconstructive surgery.

Don't think so.

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by Anonymousreply 126October 18, 2021 8:52 PM

From where is this picture?

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by Anonymousreply 127October 18, 2021 10:45 PM

Stanley Kubrick took that photo of Clift in 1949 for "Look" magazine.

by Anonymousreply 128October 18, 2021 11:17 PM

[quote] Happy heavenly 101st to gay martyr

How can Monty be a martyr when he wan't even Catholic?

by Anonymousreply 129October 19, 2021 12:55 AM

There were Quaker martyrs as well.

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by Anonymousreply 130October 19, 2021 1:05 AM

Tiny uncut cock. Bit hard enough while kissing to draw blood. Abusive boozehound.

He may have looked great on screen and in photographs, but you wouldn't want to be anywhere near him.

by Anonymousreply 131October 19, 2021 1:17 AM

Monty is seriously the best looking actor ever. Rock Hudson is a serious number 2.

by Anonymousreply 132October 19, 2021 1:30 AM

R131 You knew him personally, Mary?

by Anonymousreply 133October 19, 2021 1:53 AM

R133 This book I read about the friendship between Liz and Monty made him sound like a nightmare to deal with.

by Anonymousreply 134October 19, 2021 1:57 AM

I sound like the bygone Judy Pills right now, but Monty, Marilyn Monroe, and Judy Garland all strike me as being incredibly similar in that they were hard to deal with mentally fragile addicts who really, really would have been better off had they not been put under the scrutiny of fame and showbiz. I don't see any of them as being outright nasty, cruel people outside the mental illness.

by Anonymousreply 135October 19, 2021 2:00 AM

R135 Oh I absolutely agree. And to be fair, it sounds like Monty only became a nightmare to deal with after his car accident. You can’t really fault him for that, but it was still tough to read certain details about him during that time period.

by Anonymousreply 136October 19, 2021 2:03 AM

I'm wary of second-hand gossip but I remember that gossip about drunkard Catholic Spencer Tracy dismissing uglified Monty who was paralytic lying on the floor gurgling to speak and unable to get on to his feet.

by Anonymousreply 137October 19, 2021 2:07 AM

Montgomery Clift was a beautiful gorgeous man when he was young, before his unfortunate accident. A talented genius, but a flawed human being.

by Anonymousreply 138October 19, 2021 2:11 AM

[quote]And to be fair, it sounds like Monty only became a nightmare to deal with after his car accident.

Don't be fair, be realistic. Clift was an unruly alcoholic long before the car accident.

by Anonymousreply 139October 19, 2021 2:21 AM

R135, Monty could well be outright nasty: One time when a friend came over to say hello, Monty while staring deeply at his own reflection in the mirror, turned on the friend and said "My God, you're ugly". The friend had really bad acne and was insecure, Monty's cruelty caused him to burst into tears. Monty never apologized to the friend, but the friend said he never understood why Monty behaved so cruelly towards him and that it was uncalled for. Monty would often indulge in gossip, say mean things about his theatre friends and generally thought he was better than everyone. All this was prior to his showbiz fame.

Marilyn married a guy just to get out of her humdrum town and then dumped him because she was "bored" and he no longer served any purpose to further her career.

Judy Garland, I don't know enough about Judy's early years, but I'm pretty sure she did some shady things as well.

It's too easy to blame "mental illness" for your problems and it also sounds like an excuse to dismiss bad behaviour. Maybe they were just self absorbed narcissists who used and abused people just as much as they were used and abused?

by Anonymousreply 140October 19, 2021 3:31 AM

R140 You sound like you're either 13 or a frau. Most people have these kinds of bitchy moments in their lives! I don't give a shit if Monty mocked someone's acne or Judy was "shady."

by Anonymousreply 141October 19, 2021 3:35 AM

[quote] Most people have these kinds of bitchy moments in their lives!

Yes. I did certain done some unforgivable things in my youth that I'm too embarrassed to mention here in this anonymous place.

(Occasionally think I shouldn't harass dopey millennials now because I was equally as dopey in my youth)

by Anonymousreply 142October 19, 2021 3:43 AM

R137 I've read more than one book that referenced Spencer Tracey's habit of getting waster and opening the first available door to take a leak, usually a closet.

by Anonymousreply 143October 19, 2021 3:55 AM

He looked like a vicious queen!

by Anonymousreply 144October 19, 2021 4:17 AM

One of Month's favorite drinks: A jug filled with whiskey and fruit juice with two crushed Demerol pills mixed in it. Fucking DEMEROL with alchol. This is why he looked so old before his time. Unfortunately, he was a major alcoholic and drug addict.

by Anonymousreply 145October 19, 2021 4:24 AM

Which month?

by Anonymousreply 146October 19, 2021 4:28 AM

Dean's career (and life) was too short for all the rumors about him to be true. Clift's family has tried to "set the record straight" and challenge Boswell's account around his promiscuous sex life and drug use, little of which makes much sense---his drug problem was well known and obvious and the messiness of his personal life seems well documented. He was a handful before the accident and even more of one afterwards. He seems to have lacked Brando's boundless self-confidence or Dean's immaturity. He may have been mostly gay as a goose, but his attraction for women is obvious in his earlier film roles and probably in life. I suspect that Dean and Brando would have done anything on two legs, but I'm guessing Clift was a little more elusive, hence, his reported need for rough trade.

Newman's early film work looks about as much like Brando as Red Button's. Although the elliptical dialogue for his character didn't help, he's the weakest part of "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof". It took him the better part of the next decade to become a real actor. He was never an exceptional actor, but he became a reliable actor with some range and depth and kept much of his beauty well into later age.

by Anonymousreply 147October 19, 2021 4:31 AM

[quote]drunkard Catholic

This isn't the "things your grandparents used to say" thread.

by Anonymousreply 148October 19, 2021 4:34 AM

Should be Bosworth, not Boswell.

by Anonymousreply 149October 19, 2021 4:34 AM

I think whatever attraction he had to women was emotional and platonic. Besides La Liz in A Place in the Sun he didn't have a ton of heat with female co-stars - it's always the relationships with other men in his movies (where he has a love interest) like Red River or From Here To Eternity that stand out. Elia Kazan bemoaned casting him Wild River alongside Lee Remick because he felt he had no masculine sexuality like Kazan's beloved Brando.

by Anonymousreply 150October 19, 2021 4:36 AM

[quote]Besides La Liz in A Place in the Sun he didn't have a ton of heat with female co-stars - it's always the relationships with other men in his movies (where he has a love interest) like Red River or From Here To Eternity that stand out.

I don't think he played many roles that called for heat with female costars. It doesn't mean anything. What heat did Henry Fonda ever have onscreen with a female costar? I don't think he was gay. Both of those actors were just cooler personalities onscreen. It was actually part of Clift's appeal that he was not a macho man onscreen. Monty's relationship with Jennifer Jones in Indiscretion Of An American Wife was fairly steamy, though.

by Anonymousreply 151October 19, 2021 4:46 AM

[quote] Indiscretion Of An American Wife

No one has seen that strange mulatto movie.

And if they have, they've forgotten it.

All the dialogue was completely dubbed, wasn't it? Dubbed by strangers?

by Anonymousreply 152October 19, 2021 4:55 AM

[quote] One of Month's favorite drinks: A jug filled with whiskey and fruit juice with two crushed Demerol pills mixed in it.

Shoundsh shcrumptioush!

by Anonymousreply 153October 19, 2021 5:05 AM

Henry Fonda had a number of movies where has very potent sexual chemistry with female co-stars (Jezebel, The Lady Eve, Once Upon a Time in the West). I do agree with you Clift's entire boon was being a sensitive, brooding new kind of leading male.

I love the story about Jennifer Jones flushing her mink wrap down the toilet after she found out Monty was gay because she was so into him.

by Anonymousreply 154October 19, 2021 5:06 AM

[quote]No one has seen that strange mulatto movie. And if they have, they've forgotten it. All the dialogue was completely dubbed, wasn't it? Dubbed by strangers?

It's in the Criterion Collection! It used to be on TV a lot (I think it may be in the public domain). No, the dialogue wasn't dubbed by strangers. Trailer:

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by Anonymousreply 155October 19, 2021 5:08 AM

Monty and Jerry Robbins were lovers and when Robbins helped Monty with an audition for ROMEO AND JULIET, Robbins got the idea for WEST SIDE STORY. It's a piece of gay history connected to WSS that you hardly ever hear about.

And I fucking love Monty's fur. Hot pic, OP.

by Anonymousreply 156October 19, 2021 5:21 AM

[quote]R40 When I was a kid, I lived down the street from his twin sister in Austin. Years later I read a bio of Monty and discovered he lived on and off with her in Austin for years. If only I'd known...

My mom went to prep school in Boston with his niece, Suzanne, who lived on Beacon Hill with a grandmother. It was later quite a shock when Suzanne’s murdered boyfriend was found in a padlocked storeroom of the apartment.

Maybe this was just alumni gossip, but my mom says the story was that after killing the boyfriend, Miss Clift cut off his penis and brought it to his family in Brazil (?!?!) She was arrested when she returned to the U.S.

I don’t know if I should believe her - I mean, that’s rather OTT!

by Anonymousreply 157October 19, 2021 5:24 AM

Escorted into court:

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by Anonymousreply 158October 19, 2021 5:29 AM

The slain (and perhaps disfigured) victim, Pedro Brentani.

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by Anonymousreply 159October 19, 2021 5:33 AM

Do you guys Liz and Monty had sex at least once? She apparently tried hard to seduce him during A Place in the Sun, and he did refer to her as the only woman that turned him on.

by Anonymousreply 160October 19, 2021 5:36 AM

Do you guys think*

by Anonymousreply 161October 19, 2021 5:36 AM

R161 Yeah I think so although didn't she say in her later years that they were only friends? (Doesn't mean anything.)

by Anonymousreply 162October 19, 2021 5:38 AM

R162 Found this article:

When the breathtakingly beautiful star and the serious 29-year-old actor with the chiseled good looks met in 1949 before filming the now-iconic drama, she fell hard for him — and he had strong feelings for her, as well, Casillo says.

Their attraction was so strong — their smoldering dance scene in A Place in the Sun is considered one of the most sensual in movie history — that co-star Shelley Winters "actually thought there was an affair going on," says Casillo.

"It's almost like you're seeing them fall in love during that dance," he says.

Though the two were attracted to each other and were even seen smooching in the back of limousines, says Casillo, at that point, "Monty couldn't bring himself to tell her that he was gay."

As a result, he kept their relationship platonic, which only made Taylor want him more.

"I think that was a part of the first interest on her part," he says.

She would invite him to her room to rehearse, where she would undress in front of him and talk to him while she was bathing, says the author.

"He sat on the edge of the bathtub — and actually rehearsed," says Casillo.

"This was intriguing to her because men were interested in her for her physicality," he says. "Now she had a man who was sitting there, talking about movies and books that she liked, her plans for her future and the roles she wanted to play. I really do think he's the first one who saw interest in her as a person."

As their relationship progressed, says Casillo, "Monty felt more comfortable in letting her know he was gay — and talking about it."

In time, "Elizabeth even started trying to think of other gay men she could fix him up with," he says.

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by Anonymousreply 163October 19, 2021 5:42 AM

No, I don’t think they ever had sex. If they did it wasn’t very good, as they never became a romantic couple.

by Anonymousreply 164October 19, 2021 5:44 AM

I think a lot more happens between people than is ever known. As long as they're discreet and never tell anyone else, a lot can go on that no one suspects. Yeah he was gay but he was extremely attractive, rich and famous and that's an aphrodesiac, so he probably got hit on constantly - more than most of us can never even dream of (and Taylor did, too). He probably tried it with women.

by Anonymousreply 165October 19, 2021 6:49 AM

*can ever

by Anonymousreply 166October 19, 2021 6:50 AM

I don't think they had sex either. Plenty of well-known men as gay as Monty got married to women they could bear it with in those days, and the fact he never opted to do that with her is interesting. There's an anecdote about them being drunk out of their minds together and Monty telling her that she's the only woman he could ever possibly love. Seemed like true platonic soulmates.

by Anonymousreply 167October 19, 2021 7:02 AM

R141, Lol, your stupid point was "they're mentally ill" which, none of them actually were. You must be one of those lazy millennial's that claim mental illness as an excuse for your shitty behaviour.

by Anonymousreply 168October 19, 2021 3:16 PM

[quote]Yes. I did certain done some unforgivable things in my youth

I done tings in my yoot too

by Anonymousreply 169October 19, 2021 3:17 PM

[quote]Marilyn married a guy just to get out of her humdrum town

She was born and raised in LA, married a guy from LA and they lived in LA.

by Anonymousreply 170October 19, 2021 3:35 PM

R164, he confessed to a friend that he and liz had had sex on one occasion but he couldn't "get it up". The few other women he had been sexual with said he was always impotent and passive in bed.

by Anonymousreply 171October 19, 2021 3:52 PM

Clift's brother claimed that there had been abortions, but if Monty couldn't even "get it up" how could there have been abortions?

by Anonymousreply 172October 19, 2021 4:00 PM

Was the impotence caused by Clift's homosexuality or drunkenness? I mean, young guys (under 35) can usually get it up with just about anything.

by Anonymousreply 173October 19, 2021 4:02 PM

R172, Clift's brother had a deep agenda. He desperately tried to make Monty "bi" instead of gay, and I take everything he said with a generous grain of salt.

by Anonymousreply 174October 19, 2021 4:04 PM

R173 , He could get it up for the boys but he couldn't get it up for the girls...

by Anonymousreply 175October 19, 2021 4:06 PM

R175, most men an get it up for a plant.

by Anonymousreply 176October 19, 2021 4:11 PM

And you rely on that, don’t you?

by Anonymousreply 177October 19, 2021 4:26 PM

Yes, his brother had an agenda to paint him as a “bisexual” who just wanted to have a family but struggled with a terrible affliction of homosexualism, and later his brother’s son tried some weird “he was super comfortable about being gay? or maybe bisexual….” with the newer documentary. The brother, Brooks comes off as creepy, recording all of their phone conversations (which I’m sure Monty had to be aware of to some degree) and then milking his connections to Monty on talk shows after his death even though he hated most of his family.

I’ve said upthread but his twin sister (who he lived with on and off and seemed to actually trust) cut herself off from the rest of the family and wasn’t involved in any of the biographies, docs, or other parasitic nonsense the rest of them were. At least someone in his family didn’t use him as a vessel and wanted to let him rest.

by Anonymousreply 178October 19, 2021 4:57 PM

I have to counter this, because Brooks Clift has never come across as creepy, to me. He didn't needs to cash in on his connection to Monty, as far as I know. He was a successful TV director for a while. If he thought MOnty was bisexual, or needed to think it, so what? And it's not surprising Monty would be closer to his twin sister.

by Anonymousreply 179October 19, 2021 5:10 PM

I've heard the telephone conversation between Monty's brother and mother arguing whether he was gay or bisexual. His mother said she had known he was gay since he was around twelve years old. Liz said he was gay, too.

I don't think it was solely his brother that was pushing the bisexual narrative. Actor and former boyfriend of Clift's, Jack Larson, maintained that Monty would go to bed with both men and women, but then he said Monty was usually passed out drunk by the time he got to the bedroom, and you'd have to undress him, put him to bed and then climb in next to him. That's not really "going to bed" in the context that he's suggesting. He also said Libby Holman and Clift had a sexual relationship, but one of Libby's nephews, David Holman, denied anything went on between Libby and Monty. And he'd know since he was staying over at Libby's Treetops Mansion while Monty was visiting. IIRC David had a fling with Monty but he wasn't all that enthused by it. Seems like Jack Larson put out a lot of mixed messages on Clift's character.

Robert La Guardia's biography on Clift pushed the bisexual narrative as well. I think because most of these books and documentaries on Clift were made in the 70s and 80s, perhaps bisexuality or sexual ambiguity were more palatable to a wider audience than gay?

by Anonymousreply 180October 19, 2021 6:28 PM

Jack Larson also claimed in an interview that Monty never had a drinking problem because "everyone drank back then" but, at one point Larson had to rush Monty dead drunk to Dr. Silverberg's office at ten in the morning and dropped him on the doorstep. Larson was trying to get Silverberg to acknowledge Monty's problem with alcoholism and get him into a sanatorium but Silverberg would've have any of it.

by Anonymousreply 181October 19, 2021 6:35 PM

Elton John and Martina Navratilova were both bi in the 70s, as funny as that sounds now, so yes, it was and still is seen as more acceptable than full on homosexuality, and Monty's brother may have wanted to save face for his social aspirant family. Many of the gays I know had a phase of saying they were "bisexual" when they knew they didn't like women.

by Anonymousreply 182October 19, 2021 6:56 PM

But it’s not fair to assume all bisexual men are just gay.

by Anonymousreply 183October 19, 2021 6:59 PM

Obviously not, but I don't think Clift was bisexual at all. You can call Rock Hudson bisexual too, his "wife" claimed they fucked all the time! Same with Anthony Perkins. It was a much different time, many, if not most gay men married women or claimed attraction to them.

by Anonymousreply 184October 19, 2021 7:18 PM

“Happy heavenly” isn’t going to become a thing on DL like “…is dead to me.” and “Tasteful Friends:” right, because I don’t know if I can put up with that shit.

by Anonymousreply 185October 19, 2021 7:21 PM

AP supposedly converted and got married and had kids...he was probably just bi or something,

by Anonymousreply 186October 19, 2021 7:26 PM

P186 He was constantly fucking men on the side and died of AIDS. Poor Barry Berenson just put up with it like Leonard Bernstein's miserable wife.

by Anonymousreply 187October 19, 2021 7:28 PM

^ I meant R186

by Anonymousreply 188October 19, 2021 7:28 PM

People can be bi for awhile and then slowly become more interested in one over the other. EJ could have very likely been attracted to women in the 70's and then that may have faded with time.The opposite happened with Bowie for example, bi in his youth and then in his 30s began to just go for women.

by Anonymousreply 189October 19, 2021 7:30 PM

R187, Berenson was a Anthony Perkins fangirl before she met Tony. She knew he was gay but that didn't stop her, she was determined to live out her fangirl fantasy with Anthony Perkins. She wasn't a clueless wife like some of the others, she knew exactly what she was going to get with Perkins.

by Anonymousreply 190October 19, 2021 7:41 PM

Re: the murderess niece:

I found this on some Clift fan site, so who knows. But it appears Mummy may be RIGHT (for once!)

[quote] An interesting sidenote is that one of Brook's children Suzanne Clift, when she was 21, pled guilty to manslaughter in the 1 Oct 1962, murder of her boyfriend, Piero Brentani, a Swiss-Italian electronics engineer.  She shot him in the head and castrated him, according to the 2000 report in 'The Boston Globe'.  [bold]In newspaper reports of the time, it does not mention that he was castrated. [/bold]Suzanne's mother is called "Mrs Peter Thompson, divorced and remarried....", while her father "William Brooks Clift Jr" is called a "movie and television producer in New York". Suzanne was put in jail without bail, and a month later while still being held, it was discovered that she was pregnant.  Suzanne was committed, during her trial, to the Massachusetts Mental Health Center for tests to determine her mental state.  She offered to plead guilty to manslaughter and related to the judge that her boyfriend had told her he would never marry her.  She however was "hopelessly in love" and due to bear his child. "I never told him because I knew his feelings.  He told me if I ever became pregnant, I would have to have an abortion."  She was sentenced to indefinite but voluntary incarceration at the Mental Health Center and ten years probation.  In June she gave birth to a baby girl.  Suzanne spent three years in the mental hospital before she was released.  She came to see Monty after she was released and they played with the baby. (Bosworth, p. 361)

by Anonymousreply 191October 19, 2021 7:42 PM

R189, "attracted to" doesn't necessarily mean "want to fuck with." How many gay men love the way some beautiful women look and are attracted to their figures, hair and clothes? And they're totally, completely gay.

R183, true. But perhaps you were not around in the 1970s-80s and earlier when the word bisexual was used prolifically in order for one to sit on the fence, in order to give a person's friends and family the hope that they'd meet the right woman.

As for celebrities, Martina Navratilova was "bisexual" in public right up to the time she was served with a lawsuit from the ex she dumped - it was 1991.

by Anonymousreply 192October 19, 2021 7:42 PM

R192, in a thread talking about sexual orientation, saying "attracted to" most certainly means "want to fuck". I am well aware that in other contexts it means something different. We are not in those other contexts. So I stand by my post.

by Anonymousreply 193October 19, 2021 7:47 PM

Why does no one want to talk about Monty’s niece hacking off the penis of her unborn child’s father??

by Anonymousreply 194October 19, 2021 7:50 PM

Eh, R194, how many amongst us haven’t wanted to do that to our boyfriends at one point or another?

by Anonymousreply 195October 19, 2021 7:53 PM

R183 R184 I get what you guys mean, I was just speaking about bisexual men in general. For the record I also think Monty was gay.

by Anonymousreply 196October 19, 2021 8:24 PM

R187 Was Barry the only woman Tony was with? This may sound ignorant, but is it possible he could’ve been bi? I mean it can’t be easy for a fully gay men to have sex with and impregnate a woman multiple times. There has to be some attraction there.

by Anonymousreply 197October 19, 2021 8:26 PM

R192 I get what you mean, I was just speaking about bisexual men in general. For the record I also think Monty was gay.

by Anonymousreply 198October 19, 2021 8:29 PM

R197, no. Victoria Principal was the girl who popped his hetero cherry.

by Anonymousreply 199October 19, 2021 8:43 PM

OP, no one who has ever seen Montgomery Clift....."barely remembers" Montgromery Clift... one of the all time greats ....period.

by Anonymousreply 200October 19, 2021 9:05 PM

Tony Perkins was with Victoria Principal once, and his wife BERRY Berenson at least twice. I'd be willing to wager that's it as far as females go.

by Anonymousreply 201October 19, 2021 10:54 PM

R194 The most amusing part of the story is that the niece and baby hung out with Monty after she got out of jail.

by Anonymousreply 202October 19, 2021 11:25 PM

It was a NUTHOUSE… not a jail. She did three years.

I wonder if Monty and Liz pulled strings to make it so.

by Anonymousreply 203October 20, 2021 12:43 AM
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by Anonymousreply 204October 20, 2021 12:45 AM

Okay - I’ve got my mother’s fuzzy memories of The Murderess Niece from her Boston prep school days. They were a couple years apart so not in the same circle. All she said was Miss Clift wore navy colored sailor jackets and seemed detached.

But then she added in true DL fashion, “You’d have called her a waif… if she were thinner.”

by Anonymousreply 205October 20, 2021 12:57 AM

I want a movie in the style of "My Week with Marilyn" about the loving familial relationship between Monty and his murderess prep school niece.

by Anonymousreply 206October 20, 2021 1:32 AM

[quote]r206 I want a movie in the style of "My Week with Marilyn" about the loving familial relationship between Monty and his murderess prep school niece.

This is the role of a lifetime!

[italic]Has the role of the baby been cast?

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by Anonymousreply 207October 20, 2021 1:55 AM

I once read an article that Kevin McCarthy felt that Patricia Bosworth had misqouted him badly in her book about Clift. I don't really remember him saying anything really bad about Monty in her book. Does anyone else have an idea what he was upset about? (It's in the 2nd paragraph before the interview starts)

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by Anonymousreply 208October 20, 2021 2:25 AM

He was beautiful, and very talented. But the best? Brando really has no equal.

by Anonymousreply 209October 20, 2021 2:34 AM

McCarthy's legendary friendship with the late Montgomery Clift, the beautiful but tragic actor who died after a horrible descent into degradation, was chronicled in two widely-circulated Clift biographies by Robert LaGuardia and Patricia Bosworth. McCarthy cooperated with both writers but had the lengthiest discourses with Bosworth. "Unfortunately, she didn't use a tape recorder. I thought 'Well, maybe she has an unerring memory,' but it was rather disconcerting to be handed quotes (his) and to be asked to check them for accuracy. I called her and said 'This is wrong' and she said, 'Just write what you want want.'

"There were a lot of errors in her book but nobody seems to know or care unless they were involved. It was the best of the two books and yet there was a lot of inaccuracy in it."

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by Anonymousreply 210October 20, 2021 2:34 AM

R208, that's probably because she thought his comments - that Clift's drinking and drugging was because he couldn't "handle" his homosexuality - were horseshit.

by Anonymousreply 211October 20, 2021 3:05 AM

[quote]Brando really has no equal.

Drank the Kool-Aid

by Anonymousreply 212October 20, 2021 3:06 AM

It always seemed to me Monty made more quality films and gave more good performances than Marlon. Red River, The Search, The Heiress, The Big Lift, A Place In The Sun, From Here To Eternity and I Confess are all still very good. Indiscretion Of An American Wife (Terminal Station) isn't great but DeSica is a good director and it's one of Monty's best performances. His later films are more of a mixed bag but Raintree County was at least a big hit and he's good in it, Suddenly Last Summer is still good, The Misfits is iconic, and Judgment At Nuremberg was well recieved (and got him another Oscar nom).

Brando's best films are probably The Men, A Streetcar Named Desire, Julius Caesar, On The Waterfront, Sayonara, The Godfather, and Last Tango in Paris. The Mutiny On The Bounty remake was just okay , Later there were Apocalypse Now, and some others, but he made some real mediocrities, he could have done much better in his career.

by Anonymousreply 213October 20, 2021 3:40 AM

*Forget to mention Wild River is one of Monty's best performances and a great movie even though it flopped.

by Anonymousreply 214October 20, 2021 3:47 AM

I have a fantasy about Sal Mineo and Clift but not sure if their timelines/paths ever crossed.

by Anonymousreply 215October 20, 2021 12:08 PM

Someone way upthread asked how much money he had in his estate at his death. Per a NY Daily News article when his will was filed, he left about $200,000 in 1966 dollars to his mother and sister. Brother William Brooks Clift Jr. of Atlanta got less than the other two survivors. That's not very much, but he also didn't really work that much.

by Anonymousreply 216October 20, 2021 2:06 PM

That's about $1.7 million in 2021 dollars, R216, Still, not what you'd expect.

by Anonymousreply 217October 20, 2021 2:16 PM

R215 I don't think so, they belonged to different generations IMO. Even though Sal seems "Old Hollywood" he was born in 1939 - younger than New Hollywood figures like Jane Fonda and Warren Beatty. He's only a year older than Al Pacino.

by Anonymousreply 218October 20, 2021 5:30 PM

R211, but isn't her bio on Clift premised around him not being able to cope with being gay as one of the factors to his abusing alcohol and drugs that would eventually lead to his downfall? So why would McCarthy's comments which fit her narrative in the book be b.s? It would have been helpful if McCarthy actually gave examples of some of the things that were inaccurate instead of leaving it up to speculation.

by Anonymousreply 219October 20, 2021 6:28 PM

An interesting thing Boswell brings up is that it wasn’t just the car accident that altered/ruined Cliff’s face - it was all the booze and dope he’d taken catching up with him. He’d been off the screen for 4 years when he did (the awful) Raintree County, the splendor of youth was dimming, he was 37…. and in the footage shot before the crash he doesn’t look as amazing as he once had.

His eyes are still magnificent, but when he smiles here, he almost looks like Kevin Spacey.

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by Anonymousreply 220October 20, 2021 6:46 PM

Clift's mother and brother said Bosworth's book was filled with lies, but they never took it up to clear up those lies. If they didn't trust Bosworth they could've easily written their own book on Monty, Or perhaps create a documentary on the family? But they never did. Years later Clift's nephew did clear up some of those inaccuracies, like when the bio said Monty was charged with picking up "young boys", but it was actually young men. Bosworth made it sound like Clift was a child predator.

by Anonymousreply 221October 20, 2021 6:49 PM

R220 That's a post crash scene, obviously. You can tell because his face seems puffed up. This is a scene shot before the crash.

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by Anonymousreply 222October 20, 2021 7:19 PM

I hate that movie so much, I can never watch it all the way through. It’s just a deadly slog with NO personality!

Has anyone ever carefully noted which scenes were done before the accident, going by the shooting schedule?

Is this pre, or post accident?

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by Anonymousreply 223October 20, 2021 7:33 PM

The bloom of his beautiful youth was gone in R222's pre-accident image.

by Anonymousreply 224October 20, 2021 7:33 PM

Well, but he still does look like an exceptionally handsome man.

by Anonymousreply 225October 20, 2021 7:35 PM

R224 No shit, he was pushing 40.

by Anonymousreply 226October 20, 2021 7:40 PM

R213, Monty as Robert E. Lee Prewitt, was one of his best performances. Monty always looked very scrawny in his earlier films but he really bulked up for this role. His body was amazing. I think he's better than Brando.

by Anonymousreply 227October 20, 2021 7:40 PM

They played very different types - it’s hard to compare them. Brando maybe had greater range, though. I can see him doing the role from The Heiress, for example, but not Clift pulling off A Streetcar Named Desire.

by Anonymousreply 228October 20, 2021 7:58 PM

Brando could play brutes and very sexual roles. Clift couldn't. But I don't think he could pull off the intense sensitivity Clift had in films like The Misfits at all.

Reflections in a Golden Eye would have been much better suited for Clift.

by Anonymousreply 229October 20, 2021 8:00 PM

An interesting thing about Brando is he was reportedly quite gentle off screen. Did he play any sensitive , more refined characters? (I’ve only seen his most famous films.)

by Anonymousreply 230October 20, 2021 8:15 PM

Burt Lancaster and Monty Clift did really well in From Here To Eternity, they had great chemistry together, that scene where they're drunk sitting on the road and Burt was caressing the back of Monty's head looked rather sensual. Were the subtle homoerotic elements deliberately placed in the film?

James Jones, the author of From Here to Eternity omitted gay sex from his book because the publisher's wouldn't allow it, of course there was no way they would have allowed anything gay in the film either. But I wonder if it was Clift or the director's way of sneaking it in there to get pass the code, like they did in Red River when Monty and John Ireland are playing with each.others guns.

by Anonymousreply 231October 20, 2021 8:28 PM

[quote]r231 …like they did in Red River when Monty and John Ireland are playing with each.others guns.

John Ireland had a big gun.

He could have killed Monty with that thing!

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by Anonymousreply 232October 20, 2021 8:51 PM

R232, Well, damn. I'd let him murder me with it!

by Anonymousreply 233October 20, 2021 8:56 PM

I wonder if James Jones and Monty did anything sexy together? They were hanging out a lot during the filming of From Here To Eternity. James Jones confessed to one of Monty's friends that he wanted to sleep with Monty but he never asked. I've seen pics of them together, Jones looks like a bouncer/ rough, tough Irish lad. I'm certain Jones is a heterosexual but it seems even he couldn't resist wanting a piece of Monty.

by Anonymousreply 234October 20, 2021 9:12 PM

Someone, I don't remember who, said that James Dean tried to combine Clift's "forgive me" with Brando's "fuck you."

[quote]Forget to mention Wild River is one of Monty's best performances and a great movie

Na, uh. No woman who was young and looked like Lee Remick would go near an old guy like Clift, not the old ugly guy he'd become. Really, hairpiece not withstanding.

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by Anonymousreply 235October 20, 2021 9:18 PM

R235 Women mostly do not give a shit about looks, some men that nice-looking girls I know date or fuck are total trolls.

by Anonymousreply 236October 20, 2021 9:31 PM

R236 = HA HA HA HAAAAAA! Let me guess, gold star gay who only knows straights from soap operas and porn.

by Anonymousreply 237October 20, 2021 9:35 PM

Regardless of whether Clift was too old for Remick, it's still one of his best performances.

by Anonymousreply 238October 20, 2021 9:51 PM

Clift had a great role in "From Here to Eternity" and did it justice. I never understood the acclaim Sinatra got for for his performance, except as "popular singer dares to tackle tragic dramatic role" hype; he is so over the top, especially compared to Clift and Lancaster.

by Anonymousreply 239October 20, 2021 10:46 PM

[quote] That's a post crash scene, obviously. You can tell because his face seems puffed up. This is a scene shot before the crash. . R222 No, It's a "before" scene. Post-crash, one side of his face was immobile and his upper lip had been cut in half and was sewn together. His lip is fine there. And both sides of his face are mobile. His face might seem puffed up because he was an alcoholic. If you see the movie, the entire scene, it's obvious this is a pre-crash scene.

by Anonymousreply 240October 21, 2021 2:58 AM

[quote]That's a post crash scene, obviously. You can tell because his face seems puffed up. This is a scene shot before the crash.

[R222] No, It's a "before" scene. Post-crash, one side of his face was immobile and his upper lip had been cut in half and was sewn together. His lip is fine there. And both sides of his face are mobile. His face might seem puffed up because he was an alcoholic. If you see the movie, the entire scene, it's obvious this is a pre-crash scene.

by Anonymousreply 241October 21, 2021 2:59 AM

[quote] (the awful) Raintree County,

Made by by someone called Edward Dmytryk, a Canadian Communist who also asked Monty to star in the equally-awful 'The Young Lions' in the following year.

I've looked at the list of Dmytryk's odd movies but I can't understand why he got so many big stars to appear in them.

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by Anonymousreply 242October 21, 2021 3:06 AM

[quote] Edward Dmytryk

omg…he did The Carpetbaggers, which is quite, um, artless (but at least lively)

Then he directed Susan Hayward in the very worst acting I’ve ever seen by a star. Maybe there’s no other way to play this potboiler scene, but…. Wow.

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by Anonymousreply 243October 21, 2021 6:03 AM

[italic]“And what are you?! A drunk, a weakling, a kept man, can’t hold a job, living off your wife! You’re a worthless, crawling, miserable excuse for a man! Ya cowardly hero! YOU’RE NO HERO! You’re a drunk! A drunk! A drunk!”

by Anonymousreply 244October 21, 2021 6:12 AM

Where Love Has Gone paid for evil spawn BD Merrill's wedding.

It'd have been a hoot to see Davis and Clift together--Davis as Violet Venable or Clift as Baby Jane's pianist.

by Anonymousreply 245October 21, 2021 12:43 PM

Hayward betrayed more of her Brooklyn accent than usual there.

by Anonymousreply 246October 21, 2021 12:54 PM

It's a shame Clift turned down Sunset Boulevard because of Libby Holman's manipulative meddling. He would have been great as Joe Gillis.

by Anonymousreply 247October 21, 2021 3:33 PM

Clift couldn't think for himself? What was he 12?

by Anonymousreply 248October 21, 2021 4:34 PM

He didn't seem to have much confidence when it came to choosing what roles to play. He hired a secretary just to read all his script offers for him and choose which ones she thought would be best for him.

by Anonymousreply 249October 21, 2021 5:22 PM

I still don’t think it’s a pre crash scene R241 - he looks totally different than in the one from R222. I doubt alcoholism took SUDDENLY took effect between the shooting of those scenes.

by Anonymousreply 250October 21, 2021 5:24 PM

[quote]Made by by someone called Edward Dmytryk, a Canadian Communist who also asked Monty to star in the equally-awful 'The Young Lions' in the following year. I've looked at the list of Dmytryk's odd movies but I can't understand why he got so many big stars to appear in them.

He directed some film noir classics: Murder, My Sweet; Cornered; Crossfire, The Sniper. Broken Lance and Warlock are very good westerns. The Caine Mutiny is a great, absorbing WWII drama. He made a lot of hits, not all his films are great but I stars want to appear in hits?

by Anonymousreply 251October 21, 2021 5:33 PM

*I guess

by Anonymousreply 252October 21, 2021 5:44 PM

In addition to Sunset Boulevard, Clift turned down Rope, High Noon, Shane, A Star Is Born, East of Eden, Friendly Persuasion, and Fahrenheit 451.

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by Anonymousreply 253October 21, 2021 5:48 PM

Clift didn't turn down Sunset Boulevard, at first. He accepted it, then quit at the last minute, before production began. Billy Wlder and Charles Brackett were furious. Apparently he decied not to do it because it was too close to his relationship to older, faded star Libby Holman. The team then scrambled to find a replacement, considering Richard Widmark (they decided he wasn't right for it) and Gene Kelly (MGM wouldn't loan him out), before settling on William Holden, who turned out to be perfect, and brilliant.

Clift wouldn't have been right for it, anyway. He was too soft, and cerebral. Brackett and Wilder lucked out.

by Anonymousreply 254October 21, 2021 5:59 PM

Holden was perfect. I didn't know Clift turned down "Shane"; I think he would have been great in that, reunited with "A Place in the Sun" director George Stevens.

by Anonymousreply 255October 21, 2021 6:15 PM

Nah, he wouldn't have been as good - Ladd was perfect in Shane.

by Anonymousreply 256October 21, 2021 6:18 PM

He wouldn't fit the role, but god, imagine A Star is Born with Monty and Judy, together.

Along with Monty being the first choice for Rope, Cary Grant was supposed to be opposite him.

by Anonymousreply 257October 21, 2021 6:21 PM

Clift didn't always do soft and cerebral. He was neither in The Big Lift, released the same year as Sunset Blvd. Holden never did much for me even though he was great in the role. I'd still rather have seen Clift give it a go.

by Anonymousreply 258October 21, 2021 6:21 PM

R258 I didn't think I said it very well. He just wasn't right for it. He wasn't sexy enough, at least not in the right way - Swanson taking one look at Holden coming out of the pool...Clift would have looked like...I'm not sure. Her son, maybe. And all that cynical narration...I can't see Clift doing that either in his weird voice and hesitant delievery. Holden was much more straight than Clift and the role needed that - a "regular guy", Clift got offered everything because he was the hottest young actor at the moment and was a great actor. That didn't mean he was right for everything.

by Anonymousreply 259October 21, 2021 6:28 PM

[quote]He didn't seem to have much confidence when it came to choosing what roles to play

Then he deserved what he got

by Anonymousreply 260October 22, 2021 2:37 AM

[quote]Then he deserved what he got

What was so bad about what he got? He was in more than a few classics. Honestly...

by Anonymousreply 261October 22, 2021 2:53 AM

He reminds me of Noel Gallagher in OP's photo if Noel Gallagher were handsome.

by Anonymousreply 262October 22, 2021 2:58 AM

If only he hadn't had that awful car accident that tore up his face. Although he didn't look like a hideous monster afterwards his perfect beauty was gone. A friend said that that was a crushing blow to him, losing his looks. He'd gotten away with a lot because of his beauty, and having exceptional good looks was one less thing to worry about. Here's how the accident happened. He was filming that boring movie with Elizabeth Taylor, "Raintree County." He was tired, had taken pills and just wanted to get some sleep. But she called him and wanted him to come over to her place for a dinner party she was having. She tried to entice him by telling him there would be a hip priest in attendance (the priest used the word "fuck"). As it turns out the priest didn't show up. She nagged him; apparently it was hard to say no to Elizabeth Taylor, who was used to getting her own way. Finally, he decided to go. When he left the party, which was boring, he was impaired by fatigue and the pills he'd taken. He attempted to drive home on a treacherous road and smashed the car. His face was severely injured but his body sustained hardly any damage at all. Poor Monty. If only he'd told Liz to fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 263October 22, 2021 3:07 AM

Yeah it was all Liz's fault *snerk*. She porobably saved his life, though, nbd.

by Anonymousreply 264October 22, 2021 3:22 AM

I doubt Liz knew he would have had a near fatal accident! Her worst crime was being annoying. She saved his life and vouched for him all the way until the end, giving up her salary to insure him for Reflections in a Golden Eye.

by Anonymousreply 265October 22, 2021 3:25 AM

She preferred to be called Elizabeth!

by Anonymousreply 266October 22, 2021 3:37 AM

Not Jumbo?

by Anonymousreply 267October 22, 2021 3:41 AM

R264, Add to that, New Yorker Monty never felt comfortable driving around big, expansive LA so he had a chauffeur drive him around. But Monty was in for the night and gave the chauffeur the night off. Against his better judgment, he drove himself up the winding canyons to Liz and Michael Wilding's house high up on Beverly Estate Drive and feared he'd get lost on his way down. He trailed his buddy Kevin McCarthy down the twisting canyons but lost control.

by Anonymousreply 268October 22, 2021 3:43 AM

Liz Taylor was responsible for the accident. If she'd just let him the hell alone that night, the accident never would have happened. As for "saving his life"....how the hell did she do that? After the car accident there was no "saving" him. Someone said that he committed the slowest suicide in the history of show business.

by Anonymousreply 269October 22, 2021 4:39 AM

She dragged him out of the car and pulled the teeth he was choking on out of his throat so he could breathe, so I'd say she saved his life in that moment, yes.

by Anonymousreply 270October 22, 2021 6:57 AM

Never thought he was hawt.

His face was weak.

by Anonymousreply 271October 22, 2021 7:30 AM

Lost me at "hawt".

by Anonymousreply 272October 22, 2021 7:57 AM

R271 Pray tell, who is "hawt" to you?

by Anonymousreply 273October 22, 2021 8:02 AM

[quote] It was a NUTHOUSE… not a jail. She did three years.

IT WAS NOT A NUTHOUSE!!!

by Anonymousreply 274October 22, 2021 8:10 AM

Am I the only one who finds a resemblance between pre-accident Raintree Clift and Paul Newman? Not fully, but Cliff’s smile is eerily similar to Newman’s.

by Anonymousreply 275October 22, 2021 9:17 AM

Is that you, Stevie Wonder, at R271?!?

by Anonymousreply 276October 22, 2021 10:35 AM

R261, pay attention. The posters above mine are blaming his not taking certain roles, like Sunset Blvd, on someone else. I simply pointed put that a grown man is responsible for his choices.

by Anonymousreply 277October 22, 2021 12:32 PM

Just catching up on this thread (Monty a big obsession of mine) and have a couple of thoughts.

On the Clift biographies - they came out now 40-50 years ago and neither (presumably because of stigma against homosexuality back then) is transparently sourced. It's kind of amazing that an authoritative, newly researched book hasn't been done in the decades since. I bet in Bosworth's archives one might find a lot of original interviews and documents of which she may have played a bit fast and loose with in her book (this is what Clift's nephew suggests in the very good documentary from a couple of years ago). Would be great if a responsible, first-rate biographer could do a new book, but I suspect the audience would be limited to DL eldergays.

On Brando vs Clift - even though they were grouped together often, and both seen as heralding a new Hollywood masculine identity in the 1950s, they are almost like apples and oranges. Brando was startlingly new in his technique and training; Clift was almost a classically trained actor by comparison. I think Clift was at his best in From Here to Eternity where his performance has such sensitivity and internal conflict and even charm. But it's a mistake to think Clift was "sensitive" and Brando was a "brute". Re-watching On the Waterfront recently, I was struck by how soft and vulnerable and "sensitive" Brando is in that "tough-guy" role. I think Clift may have been more consistent, but Brando, at his very best, was operating on a higher level than maybe any actor on film ever.

by Anonymousreply 278October 22, 2021 1:09 PM

Zinnemann credited Clift with getting better performances from his castmates than would have happened otherwise. The idea of him as a boxer makes more sense in context---back in the 40s and 50s, boxing filled odd hours on tv and fans followed boxers in every weight class. Sugar Ray Leonard is the about the only boxer in memory who was well-known but not a heavyweight. This was not true when the film was made. Zinnemann attributed Clift's effect to the reactions he got from other actors, which is interesting because they worked so differently. Sinatra did not like to rehearse at all, whereas Reed (who did multiple auditions because Cohn and Zinnemann initially didn't want her) spent a lot of time rehearsing with Clift and found it intense to the point of being unsettling.

by Anonymousreply 279October 22, 2021 1:41 PM

[quote] Reed (who did multiple auditions because Cohn and Zinnemann initially didn't want her)

She was great, any idea who they wanted if not her?

by Anonymousreply 280October 22, 2021 3:19 PM

Lucille Ball

by Anonymousreply 281October 22, 2021 4:26 PM

Donna Reed seemed more like a housewife than a hooker, and that fight sequence between Monty and Sergeant Galovitch they should have left the stunt doubles out. Still a good movie though.

by Anonymousreply 282October 22, 2021 5:08 PM

Damn, that Lucille ball turned down some great parts!

by Anonymousreply 283October 22, 2021 5:13 PM

I like OP's pic. Everything about the way his legs are situated looks inviting.

by Anonymousreply 284October 22, 2021 5:17 PM

[quote]Would be great if a responsible, first-rate biographer could do a new book,

I'd volunteer James Gavin, but he seems only to write about music figures - Peggy Lee, Lena Horne, Chet Baker, and the new one on George Michael. The George Michael book will be the first openly gay subject, and dead, which means anything goes. I'd love to see what's in Gavin's research that couldn't be printed because Lena Horne was still alive when he wrote that book.

by Anonymousreply 285October 22, 2021 5:28 PM

The whole point of Alma/Lorene was that she wanted to make money, go home and be "respectable". She thought she was better than the other bar girls. The role also needed to obscure exactly how she entertained the troops because of the Code. Reed made more casting sense given this background than more obvious hooker choices like Dorothy Malone or Gloria Grahame. I've never seen who they actually wanted. Reed was the only Columbia contract player in the main cast, but that was not unusual for Columbia, which kept a smaller roster of contract players than the bigger studios.

by Anonymousreply 286October 22, 2021 5:31 PM

Hadn't Monty been in a car crash prior to the one at Elizabeth's house? His friends said he made a habit of driving recklessly. Looks like he was bound to end up in a wreck.eventually.

by Anonymousreply 287October 22, 2021 5:46 PM

R280, Zinneman wanted Julie Harris but he fought so hard with Cohn to get Clift, Sinatra, and Kerr that he was willing to let this one go.

The good time girl had by all, Shelley Winters, was also up for the part, but she had just given birth to Vittoria Gassman and couldn't do it.

Cohn was also willing to give the role to Linda Christian if Ty Power would agree to play the Burt Lancaster role.

by Anonymousreply 288October 22, 2021 7:25 PM

R277 GFY with your "pay attention" bullshit, schoolmarm.

by Anonymousreply 289October 22, 2021 7:51 PM

R288 In the book Jones says Alma/Lurene looks "exactly like Hedy Lamarr", at one point (though my memory may be off). So Donna Reed with dark hair was a pretty good choice physically. Julie Harris, Shelley Winters, no. Linda Christian had an accent. The girl was supposed to be from somewhere like Oregon.

by Anonymousreply 290October 22, 2021 7:54 PM

Nancy walker was said to have been a good friend of both rock Hudson and Montgomery Clift. I wonder what stories she could have shared.

by Anonymousreply 291October 22, 2021 8:07 PM

Reminder: "Making Montgomery Clift" is still free on Tube if you haven't seen it.

by Anonymousreply 292October 22, 2021 9:42 PM

In the movie, at least, Lorene is from Washington State. She was a small town girl who had taken shit form the local gentry, which fit Reed perfectly. Harris would have been interesting. She probably would have played it a bit like Reed but with a different intensity. Like Reed, she would have been sympathetic, but her Grosse Point background might have gotten in the way.

Winters would have been horrible. She could restrain herself at times, but she wouldn't have gotten the "small town girl looking to go back and show-up those nasty 'town girls' who treated her badly" aspect. Winters would have seemed too much like trash trying to be class which undermines the character. Like casting Joan Crawford in the Deborah Kerr role, she would have thrown off the tone of the movie.

by Anonymousreply 293October 22, 2021 10:21 PM

I never bothered to view FHTE. Am I really missing a great film?

by Anonymousreply 294October 22, 2021 10:25 PM

Power was too old for the Lancaster role and all wrong for a sergeant. He would have better for the Phillip Ober role except it was too small a role for him. Trivia note: Linda Christian was then his wife.

by Anonymousreply 295October 22, 2021 10:30 PM

FHTE is a very good film woeth watching once although it runs a bit too long and the later scenes are a bit standard for a war movie, changing the tone of the film which is otherwise more character driven. Spoiler alert: Reed and Kerr meet each other on the boat ride home.

It's filled with great character actors including Jack Warden, Harry Bellaver and Claude Akins. Borgnine gives a great performance and George Reeves, of all people, has a small role. Reed, Kerr, and Sinatra earned their Oscars. Clift is very good (Oscar nominated) and Lancaster (also Oscar nominated) does well with a role that is essential to the plot but perhaps less interesting than the others.

by Anonymousreply 296October 22, 2021 10:39 PM

FHTE is worth watching for some incredible performances, namely Clift and Kerr. Sinatra and Reed were way overrated in this movie.

by Anonymousreply 297October 22, 2021 11:10 PM

[quote]Reed, Kerr, and Sinatra earned their Oscars.

The Academy thought Audrey Hepburn earned Kerr's Oscar...

by Anonymousreply 298October 23, 2021 12:24 AM

R293 I’ve always found it hard to see Crawford in the Deborah Kerr role and always wondered if it was Joan Fontaine that people had meant but they got confused. It turns out it was Crawford. I really can’t see that at all.

by Anonymousreply 299October 23, 2021 3:17 AM

Imagine Joan rolling around on the beach with Burt Lancaster!

by Anonymousreply 300October 23, 2021 3:30 AM

It took a couple of years, but she got her hunk on the beach...

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by Anonymousreply 301October 23, 2021 3:34 AM

He was a most likely a bottom, why would his dick size matter?

by Anonymousreply 302October 23, 2021 3:34 AM

What's he doing with that stick?

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by Anonymousreply 303October 23, 2021 3:42 AM

R300, it could've been Joan and Tyrone Power.

by Anonymousreply 304October 23, 2021 3:47 AM

He had such nice lips. And everything else, really, but in that particular gif above, I'm drawn to how good his mouth looks........

by Anonymousreply 305October 23, 2021 3:48 AM

It's a blade of grass

by Anonymousreply 306October 23, 2021 3:58 AM

[quote]Zinnemann credited Clift with getting better performances from his castmates than would have happened otherwise. [/quote]

Reportedly, both Lancaster and Sinatra would stay on set while Clift did his scenes because they were interested in his acting style and how he put together a performance.

by Anonymousreply 307October 23, 2021 4:18 AM

What's the story where Sinatra punched Clift out because he made a pass at the wrong person?

by Anonymousreply 308October 23, 2021 4:51 PM

He didn't punch Monty. The two were close friends during the making of FHTE (Frank got close to him because he wanted to be a good actor and learn from him) but cut him out after Monty very blatantly flirted with a man at one of Sinatra's parties. He threw Monty out of the house and didn't speak to him after that, but he did show up at the funeral.

It seems Frank was tolerant of gays only if they were musically inclined?

by Anonymousreply 309October 23, 2021 5:01 PM

Ironically he didn’t have a clift chin.

by Anonymousreply 310October 23, 2021 5:21 PM

R309, Frank was only tolerant to anyone if they sucked up and knew their place.

by Anonymousreply 311October 23, 2021 5:32 PM

R300, That could've been great, if only Joan wasn't so stubborn about her wardrobe the part would've been hers. Kerr looked like an asthmatic horse frolicking on the beach.

by Anonymousreply 312October 23, 2021 5:40 PM

Kerr was perfect. Performance-wise. And she looked pretty, and hot. Joan Crawford (in middle age though no one knows exactly when she was born) was too old for the part, and looked like a freckled bobble-head, with caterpillar eyebrows. I can't imagine all the guys on the base, and especially Burt Lancaster, getting hot and bothered for her. It would have become a camp classic.

by Anonymousreply 313October 23, 2021 5:48 PM

I love Crawford, but agree Kerr was a far better actress.

by Anonymousreply 314October 23, 2021 5:49 PM

R313. Oh, please! I could still drive men wild with desire.

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by Anonymousreply 315October 23, 2021 5:54 PM

Wasn't Jeff a cross-dresser, according to Esther Williams' autobiography? Maybe he wanted to get into Joan's old Adrian frocks.

by Anonymousreply 316October 23, 2021 6:19 PM

You guys got me watching From Here to Eternity right now. Its free on Pluto. Never saw. At one point Frank says to Monty, "Hey! You got any prejudices against women?"

by Anonymousreply 317October 24, 2021 6:55 PM

OMG the beach scene is not at all cheesy like in the parodies. It's romantic, moving, well acted and is drawing me even more into the story. I got a little teary eyed.

by Anonymousreply 318October 24, 2021 7:23 PM

R318, Lol, did we watch the same thing?! Maybe it wasn't as absurd as other movie love stories of that time but it was still in the realm of saccharine. That beach scene had my eyes rolling.

by Anonymousreply 319October 24, 2021 10:02 PM

I think I just felt for Deborah Kerr's character. She was so unhappy and wanted to escape from the misery for which she was partly to blame. She was trapped. And on that beach for a few short screen minutes she was free. The future had hope. She didn't need to be throwing herself at every soldier that came her way. Burt Lancaster was going to save her. Alas at the end she could only save herself and not look to others. And Burt was content to get blow jobs the rest of his life from that toothless guy with which he bunked.

by Anonymousreply 320October 24, 2021 11:31 PM

I love FHTE....my favorite scenes are Burt's character, Monty's and some other guy getting drunk together and singing the blues outside of the bar. Melanchonic male bonding. That and Monty's character playing "Taps" after Sinatra's character died

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by Anonymousreply 321October 25, 2021 12:38 AM

[319]Lol, did we watch the same thing?! Maybe it wasn't as absurd as other movie love stories of that time but it was still in the realm of saccharine. That beach scene had my eyes rolling.

I feel bad for you. It's an honest, emotionally tuthful, sexy scene. Guess you can't identify.

by Anonymousreply 322October 25, 2021 2:32 AM

*Truthful. Though Burt Lancaster is toothful.

by Anonymousreply 323October 25, 2021 2:35 AM

Now I'm going to see what else of Monty's is free on tv.

by Anonymousreply 324October 25, 2021 4:20 AM

Try to see “The Heiress” if you haven’t already.

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by Anonymousreply 325October 25, 2021 7:41 AM

R322, you must be a frau lol.

by Anonymousreply 326October 25, 2021 4:02 PM

"Queen Mary" indeed.

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by Anonymousreply 327October 25, 2021 7:36 PM

It's the sad, last days to see Monty in his sad, last years as Freud in John Huston's 1962 biopic on The Criterion Channel.

Available to stream until 1 Nov.

by Anonymousreply 328October 25, 2021 8:04 PM

R327 He travelled on the "Queen Mary" to do publicity in England around 1949.

There a newsreel on Youtube of him at a premiere with Valerie Hobson in Bristol, I think.

by Anonymousreply 329October 25, 2021 9:20 PM

Shame there's isn't much of Clift outside of his movie work, he rarely did interviews or tv programmes.

by Anonymousreply 330October 25, 2021 9:47 PM

I saw him once on a tv show promoting raintree county. He came out of an entrance with Eva Marie Saint and he looked stoned or something. Can't remember what it was.

by Anonymousreply 331October 25, 2021 9:53 PM

Do you watch The Criterion Channel on your computer or TV? I'd like to get it, but I'm not a streamer...yet. Tks.

by Anonymousreply 332October 25, 2021 11:27 PM

R330 That trip on the 'Mary' have been to make that 1950 German film as well as the English publicity tour.

No one here mentions that 1950 German film movie called 'The Big Lift' which I don't think I've actually seen.

Or perhaps I'm confusing with the 1948 Austrian movie called 'The Search'?

by Anonymousreply 333October 26, 2021 12:12 AM

R333, please see R258.

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by Anonymousreply 334October 26, 2021 12:24 AM

There MUST be dick pics out there…somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 335October 26, 2021 1:07 AM

Here ya go

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by Anonymousreply 336October 26, 2021 2:32 AM

^^^ Nice try, but he was known as Princess Tiny Meat.

That. Ock is average, but not laughable.

by Anonymousreply 337October 26, 2021 2:43 AM

[quote] he was known as Princess Tiny Meat Only to vacuous, gossiping queens he never met him.

by Anonymousreply 338October 26, 2021 2:49 AM

R326 From Here To Eternity was one of the most popular movies of the 50s, It touched many people, I'm not a frau, you dick.

by Anonymousreply 339October 26, 2021 3:10 AM

The Big Lift is a Hollywood film made in Germany, and it's been mentioned several times aleady.

I posted a great doc in this thread, part of it is about the trip on the Queen Mary with Kevin McCarthy and his wife, and how Monty hung out a porthole by one hand (and there's a photo of it by Kevin).

by Anonymousreply 340October 26, 2021 3:12 AM

^^^iwouldliketoseethat.gif

by Anonymousreply 341October 26, 2021 3:20 AM

"barely remembered"

An absurd, ridiculous and untrue statement.

by Anonymousreply 342October 26, 2021 3:32 AM

I’m assuming he was an active bottom.

I was born in the wrong decade.

by Anonymousreply 343October 26, 2021 3:33 AM

"[R318], Lol, did we watch the same thing?! Maybe it wasn't as absurd as other movie love stories of that time but it was still in the realm of saccharine. That beach scene had my eyes rolling.:

I can tell you what's absurd and saccharine, honey, and it ain't From Here To Eternity.

by Anonymousreply 344October 26, 2021 3:34 AM

"Am I really missing a great film?:

It's a powerful film that still resonates over the decades: the individual against the system. Incredible writing performances, direction---do yourself a favor, see it and put the ignorant naysayers in this thread to shame.

by Anonymousreply 345October 26, 2021 3:37 AM

I saw FHTE on TV when I was in high school, on the late show, it was a Saturday and I was watching this movie and near the end *SPOILER* Clift was shot. What was weird was that this made me cry. Not then, but right after the movie, as I was thinking about it. This was the first time a movie made me cry and one of the few times.

by Anonymousreply 346October 26, 2021 3:41 AM

Thanks for that, R345. I think I will see it.

-…...missing a great film.

by Anonymousreply 347October 26, 2021 3:54 AM

TY R345.

by Anonymousreply 348October 26, 2021 3:59 AM

I never heard anywhere that Clift had a big cock. I don't think he was called Princess Tiny Meat for nothing.

by Anonymousreply 349October 26, 2021 4:48 AM

R349. There have been many stories about his cock’s size and how he was (unjustifiably) ashamed of it.

by Anonymousreply 350October 26, 2021 4:56 AM

This is the apotheosis of Datalounge.

Anonymous men giving their opinion on a penis they have never seen belonging to man they've never met.

by Anonymousreply 351October 26, 2021 5:03 AM

I'd like to think Monty was a proto DLer, from anecdotes he seems like he would have grown into a bitchy old queen.

by Anonymousreply 352October 26, 2021 7:07 AM

Monty did enjoy gossip and was prone to drama even though he rarely engaged in it himself. A friend of his said Monty and playwright Thornton Wilder used to gossip maliciously about everyone they knew.

by Anonymousreply 353October 26, 2021 8:11 PM

Monty and Judy gossiping viciously about showbiz rivals must've been a riot.

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by Anonymousreply 354October 26, 2021 8:18 PM

R353 - Did Thorton and Monty have a romantic or sexual relationship? I recall reading that somewhere. Though Tennessee Williams talks a lot about how Thorton was practically asexual because he hated being gay so much.

by Anonymousreply 355October 26, 2021 8:38 PM

R355, Clift and Thornton Wilder became very close three years after Monty performed in his 1942 play, The Skin Of Our Teeth. They would see each other quite frequently and dine together. Like Monty, Wilder also had a twin, which is one of the things that drew Monty close to Wilder. In Clift's biography it said "Wilder became Monty’s intellectual mentor, but ultimately their bond went beyond books and ideas and even twinship."

The same friend said “At times Wilder seemed almost enamored of Monty. “When you saw them together you got the feeling that Thornton had an actual crush on Monty. It was never expressed, of course, but he would literally feast his eyes on him.” And Monty, in turn, worshipped Wilder.

by Anonymousreply 356October 26, 2021 9:27 PM

It seems that at some point between 52-53, their relationship was starting to wane. Monty's drinking and drug problem had taken over by then and Wilder felt that he had changed radically since he had started his analysis with that shady psychiatrist.

Monty finding relationships with older gay men wasn't anything out of the ordinary. When he was eighteen years old he met Broadway conductor, Lehman Engel, who taught him many greats things about music, theatre, ballet etc, and other gay artists like Hart Crane.

It's nice to know that the bonding ritual between elder gays and young gays was apparent even back then.

by Anonymousreply 357October 26, 2021 10:32 PM

One of Montgomery Clift's demons was his homosexuality. He hated being gay. His deep emotional attachments were with women but for sex he craved men. Sex loathing because he was gay, a car accident that disfigured his face, drug and alcohol addiction, chronic pain and physical ailments....no wonder he died young. I think when some interviewer asked him to describe his life in one sentence he said "I've been knifed."

by Anonymousreply 358October 27, 2021 12:39 AM

[quote] One of Montgomery Clift's demons was his homosexuality.

What were his others?

by Anonymousreply 359October 27, 2021 12:44 AM

R358 According to Liz Taylor, contrary to popular belief Monty didn’t hate being gay at all.

by Anonymousreply 360October 27, 2021 1:00 AM

Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

by Anonymousreply 361October 27, 2021 1:04 AM

[quote] What were his others?

His relationship with his mother was another one. He hated her. During one argument he lamented "Ma, you are such a cunt, such a cunt!"

by Anonymousreply 362October 27, 2021 2:01 AM

[quote] According to Liz Taylor, contrary to popular belief Monty didn’t hate being gay at all.

A lot she knew! She said Michael Jackson was "the least weird man I have ever known." Liz didn't know shit.

by Anonymousreply 363October 27, 2021 2:04 AM

Liz and Monty were legitimately best friends when she was young and sane. She would know about him.

by Anonymousreply 364October 27, 2021 2:07 AM

[quote] Liz and Monty were legitimately best friends when she was young and sane. She would know about him.

She didn't know everything about him. Just like she didn't know everything about her "dear friend" Michael Jackson.

by Anonymousreply 365October 27, 2021 2:11 AM

R365 You seem like a Liz hater for no reason. You also claimed she "caused" his car accident by inviting him to a party, lol.

by Anonymousreply 366October 27, 2021 2:13 AM

[quote] she "caused" his car accident by inviting him to a party, lol.

I blame Michael Wilding for failing to satisfy Liz's lust.

by Anonymousreply 367October 27, 2021 2:27 AM

[quote] You also claimed she "caused" his car accident by inviting him to a party, lol.

She didn't "invite" him to the party. She nagged him into going to it. Big difference. I know you love her but facts are facts.

by Anonymousreply 368October 27, 2021 2:43 AM

Haven't plowed through all the comments yet. To comment about him not being a great actor of as good as Brando or Dean. The only thing I can say is for me personally when I can't talk my eyes off an actor in a scene because I am completely immersed in his moment, something pretty great is going on.

Loved his work, just wish he could have gone on. He was brilliant, period. Lately, I am finding Dean & Brando don't hold up as well for me as they did earlier on.

by Anonymousreply 369October 27, 2021 2:49 AM

AND we discussed the Murderess Niece of the man we never met hacking off the penis of her boyfriend.

A new DL high point!

by Anonymousreply 370October 27, 2021 3:53 AM

Besides Monty Hall have there ever been or are there any other famous Montys?

by Anonymousreply 371October 27, 2021 4:16 AM

Monte Markham

by Anonymousreply 372October 27, 2021 4:19 AM

Monty Woolley

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by Anonymousreply 373October 27, 2021 4:34 AM

The Full Monty

by Anonymousreply 374October 27, 2021 6:35 AM

Monte Rock III

by Anonymousreply 375October 27, 2021 8:31 AM

Field Marshall Montgomery of WWII was called Monty.

by Anonymousreply 376October 27, 2021 11:50 AM

This has been a good thread but the title sticks in my craw.

by Anonymousreply 377October 27, 2021 1:08 PM

I approve this thread title.

by Anonymousreply 378October 27, 2021 4:53 PM

I think it's great a thread about a long dead 50s movie star can still get nearly 400 replies on DL. Shows at least SOME of the original base hasn't left.

by Anonymousreply 379October 27, 2021 5:15 PM

R360, but he did, that was one of the reasons why he was seeing a psychiatrist in the 50s. A lot of gay men were going through this battle, being gay wasn't accepted at all back then, it was likened to mental illness or child predation. Monty's parents were very hostile towards his homosexuality early on, later they became tolerant of it, but they were never supportive. Elizabeth Taylor is the one person who accepted Monty's homosexuality. Even Monty's psychiatrist, who was gay himself, encouraged Monty to straighten out.

Very few gay men were able to live comfortably and openly as gay men, and it took a lot of strength and courage to do so. With the gloom of widespread McCarthyism dominating the 50s and that only heightened pre-existing homophobic attitudes, it's hard to believe Monty was able to overcome all these barriers. He would have needed a strong will, and I don't believe he had one.

I think by the time the 60s rolled around Monty was likely more "relaxed" in his sexuality. He was willing to play a gay character in Reflections in a Golden Eye, that was not something he would have ever considered doing before, like how he turned down Hitchcock's Rope, out of fear it would grant exposure to his own homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 380October 27, 2021 5:16 PM

He didn't have the same "fuck you" defiant attitude as Marlon Brando did in regards to his sexual orientation.

by Anonymousreply 381October 27, 2021 7:04 PM

[quote] Elizabeth Taylor is the one person who accepted Monty's homosexuality.

Except when she was pressuring him to have sex with her.

by Anonymousreply 382October 27, 2021 7:11 PM

[quote] Elizabeth Taylor is the one person who accepted Monty's homosexuality.

No. He had other friends who didn't give a damn if he was gay. Kevin McCarthy and Nancy Walker were two of them.

by Anonymousreply 383October 27, 2021 9:48 PM

[quote] He had other friends who didn't give a damn if he was gay.

He wasn't "gay" as the word had not yet been invented.

Monty was a man-lover or a homosexual.

by Anonymousreply 384October 27, 2021 10:44 PM

R382, Monty had been playing mind games with Liz, he'd lead her on and then show up on set with a fella that he'd obviously been screwing. He behaved this way several times with her until she finally told him whatever it was she'd be there for him. She was still a teenager at the time and madly in love with him, and a little mixed up herself. Let's not crucify her for not being the perfect ally.

by Anonymousreply 385October 27, 2021 11:35 PM

Monty Clift seemed like a complicated, messy person. Some people on this thread treat him like this innocent angel who was wronged all his life and never harmed anyone. He's like the male Marilyn Monroe or Britney Spears.

by Anonymousreply 386October 27, 2021 11:40 PM

I suspect a childhood trauma no one else ever knew about. He killed himself trying to kill IT.

by Anonymousreply 387October 27, 2021 11:43 PM

R383, Kevin denied ever knowing Monty was gay, during a audition he found out there had been a rumour going around that him and Monty were "shacking up together" he said he was stunned. Nancy Walker didn't meet Monty until 57-58.

by Anonymousreply 388October 27, 2021 11:54 PM

R307, was Burt Lancaster intimidated by Monty? I read somewhere when they did their first scene together Burt was shaking.

by Anonymousreply 389October 27, 2021 11:57 PM

R379 Not only that, but running concurrently are strong threads on James Dean, Sal Mineo and most surprisingly Tommy Kirk.

by Anonymousreply 390October 28, 2021 12:01 AM

R383 R385 Liz apparently tried to seduce Monty during A Place in the Sun, yet in this interview she said she already knew he was a homosexual during the making of that film. whatisthetruth.gif

KEVIN SESSUMS: How about Montgomery Clift? Were you in love with him, in a way?

ELIZABETH TAYLOR: I loved him. But I knew from A Place in the Sun that he was gay—probably even more than he did. And I helped him with it, which is extraordinary because I was only about 16, and I didn't really know anything about it. I turned 17 during the making of that movie. I really didn't know then what being a homosexual was. But I just knew… well, I don't know how I knew.

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by Anonymousreply 391October 28, 2021 12:22 AM

[quote] Kevin denied ever knowing Monty was gay, during a audition he found out there had been a rumour going around that him and Monty were "shacking up together" he said he was stunned. Nancy Walker didn't meet Monty until 57-58.

I'm sure McCarthy was "stunned" at rumors he and Monty were lovers but I find it hard to believe he didn't know he was gay. How could he NOT know that? And what does it matter when Nancy Walker met him? She wasn't bothered in the least by his homosexuality.

by Anonymousreply 392October 28, 2021 12:38 AM

Monty Zuma. As in revenge, r 371.

by Anonymousreply 393October 28, 2021 12:45 AM

[quote] She was still a teenager at the time and madly in love with him, and a little mixed up herself. Let's not crucify her for not being the perfect ally.

Yes, she was smitten with Monty and wanted to marry him. She wrote him gushing love letters that said "I love you! I love you!" He would show them to his male lover. I guess he found them amusing.

So Elizabeth Taylor said about his homosexuality "And I helped him with it, which is extraordinary because I was only about 16, and I didn't really know anything about it?" She "helped him with it?" What the fuck does that mean? She helped him accept he was a homo? How did she do that? I think she's giving herself too much credit.

by Anonymousreply 394October 28, 2021 12:47 AM

Taylor and her brother Howard with Clift.

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by Anonymousreply 395October 28, 2021 1:01 AM

[quote]r391 I turned 17 during the making of that movie. I really didn't know then what being a homosexual was. But I just knew… well, I don't know how I knew.

But, her dad was gay.

by Anonymousreply 396October 28, 2021 1:26 AM

R394, Liz played matchmaker for Monty, she hooked him up with Roddy McDowall. Maybe that's what she meant by trying to help him. They were a good match for a while. Roddy was loyal and stayed close to Monty until the very end.

by Anonymousreply 397October 28, 2021 1:45 AM

R389, In fact, it's said that Lancaster himself was initially intimidated when acting alongside Clift, going so far as to say that he “was afraid [Clift] was going to blow me right off the screen.”

Apparently, Clift found Lancaster loathsome, he told friend, Pat Collinge, over the phone what really thought of him during a unprovoked rant, "He gets top billing, he doesn’t deserve to!’ He'd yell. "He is a terrible actor. He thinks he’s a dynamo; he’s nothing but a big bag of wind, the most unctuous man I’ve ever met!"

Pat Collinge said one minute Monty would be discussing his part as Prewitt, then out of the blue would start ranting against Burt Lancaster, then drop the subject and go back to talking about Prewitt.

by Anonymousreply 398October 28, 2021 2:54 AM

The only thing Burt had to say about Monty was that he is a great actor.

by Anonymousreply 399October 28, 2021 3:03 AM

Lancaster was less of a mess than Monty.

by Anonymousreply 400October 28, 2021 3:11 AM

[quote]I suspect a childhood trauma no one else ever knew about. He killed himself trying to kill IT.

Nobody will watch that biography I posted. lol

His mother was the illigitimate daughter of a prominent man. She tried for a good part of her life to be accepted by the family. She was adopted by a doctor (last name, Montgomery) and had a good upbringing. She went to Cornell (where she met Monty's dad, Bill).

Eventually in her constant effort to find a way in to her blood family, she was befriended by an aunt, who told her to take her kids abroad and eductate them and have them learn culture, continental manners, etc. Despite hard times when Bill struggled back in the USA to provide for them, Sunny took the three kids all over Europe, where they learned German and French (Monty was fluent in both), stayed at the best hotels, went to museums and cultural events. She dressed the three children as triplets even though Brooks was 6 years older.

Sunny went back to the aunt several times and the aunt kept saying the kids weren't yet ready to be accepted into the family. Take them back to Europe. It was clear the aunt was stalling and had no intention of ever presenting Sunny or the children to the family. Eventually she suggested Sunny and the kids live with her and keep her conpany in her old age. Sunny and she had it out, and Sunny told her off, cutting herself off from any hope of being recognized by the family. Everything she did for years was for nothing. Because of the Depression, she had had to cut down on her travels, and took the kids to Cape Cod and Florida. In Florida Monty did a part in a local play, and the director thought he showed talent.

Sunny then tuned all her energy to getting Monty on the stage, supposedly paying less attention to the other two children. The family was finally united in New York, where Monty began to get work as a child actor.

I don't think there needed to be any more trauma than this childhood to make him into a messed up adult. The kids were dragged around Europe for years on a wild goose chase, with no home life, away from their dad for months - whether they wanted to do it or not, at the service of their mother's obsession to be accepted by her family. Which came to nothing. Then Monty became a child/teen actor, so the rest of his childhood was spent working.

The photo is of the three children with their nurse.

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by Anonymousreply 401October 28, 2021 3:37 AM

Were he and sister-in-law Eleanor best buddies?

by Anonymousreply 402October 28, 2021 3:42 AM

[quote] Nobody will watch that biography I posted.

Where was it, R401?

by Anonymousreply 403October 28, 2021 4:09 AM

[quote] So Elizabeth Taylor said about his homosexuality "And I helped him with it, which is extraordinary because I was only about 16, and I didn't really know anything about it?" She "helped him with it?" What the fuck does that mean?

It means she procured for him

by Anonymousreply 404October 28, 2021 4:28 AM

^ Apparently Sebastian in the Suddenly Last Summer movie WAS meant to resemble a pre crash Monty.

by Anonymousreply 405October 28, 2021 4:43 AM

[quote] Suddenly Last Summer

I'd love to see a remake with all those flashback scenes with the young native men fleshed out with a gorgeous man playing Sebastian.

by Anonymousreply 406October 28, 2021 4:48 AM

Who is this man?

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by Anonymousreply 407October 28, 2021 4:50 AM

Julian Ugarte Landa

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by Anonymousreply 408October 28, 2021 4:55 AM

That's Sebastian Venable

by Anonymousreply 409October 28, 2021 5:08 AM

[quote]Were he and sister-in-law Eleanor best buddies?

Eleanor and Brooks Clift were married in Montgomery's brownstone in 1964. Brooks was more than 20 years older than her and it was his 4th marriage, so her family wasn't thrilled about the marriage, and some of his family weren't overjoyed about having Eleanor, a Newsweek secretary from Queens, as an in-law. Robert, their youngest son, remembered what his mother told him about her wedding:

"She had never finished college. He went to Harvard. And his family had ideas, and her family had ideas, and both families were against this wedding. And so, they’re getting married at Monty’s, and there’s some tension. You know my mother’s family, they take the train in from Queens. Anyway, they start the service, and they get to the point where the officiant asks, 'Is there any reason this marriage shouldn’t move forward?' And it’s very tense. And Monty grumbles from the audience, 'he smokes!' And everybody just loses it, and Monty sort of broke the tension for the day. He charmed Eleanor’s mother and gave her a little bit of wine, and she wasn’t a drinker. So she was in great spirits thereafter."

Eleanor and Brooks lived in New York until 1966, the year Montgomery died, when they moved to Atlanta. Eleanor remained a lifelong friend of Lorenzo, Clift's last lover, whom her three sons always considered an uncle. Robert was with Lorenzo when he died in 2018.

Eleanor and Brooks divorced in 1984. In all, Brooks had 5 marriages and 8 children, including a son with the actress Kim Stanley and a daughter (who was roughly the same age as Eleanor) who murdered her Brazilian lover in Boston in 1962. Brooks died in 1986, two years before his mother, Sunny, finally died at 99.

by Anonymousreply 410October 29, 2021 3:27 AM

[quote]Where was it, [R401]?

R403 It was at R68

by Anonymousreply 411October 29, 2021 4:30 AM

His twin sister - at the age of 94 - died 48 years after his death. I don't understand the second sentence of her obituary: "By coincidence, she was the twin of Montgomery Clift (Monty), who later became a famous movie actor."

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by Anonymousreply 412October 29, 2021 4:32 PM

R412 Would you understand it if "by coincidence" was left out of the senentce?

by Anonymousreply 413October 29, 2021 7:04 PM

Yes, of course, R413. But I should've stated, instead, that it was - to me, at least - a novel way for referring to twins.

by Anonymousreply 414October 29, 2021 7:28 PM

My thread inspired MG film festival continues right now with The Big Lift free on Tubi!!

by Anonymousreply 415October 30, 2021 4:14 AM

Is it any good? It’s the only one of his I haven’t seen r415

by Anonymousreply 416October 30, 2021 4:16 AM

That Ethel sounds like a real busy body.

by Anonymousreply 417October 30, 2021 4:41 AM

I just started but interesting note at beginning. Everyone in the movie is active duty military but MC and some other guy. At one point Monty's character says to another guy, "I feel like we're getting married." It's got the feel of one of those John Ford WW II documentaries. Monty speaks some German. It sounds real. I guess from his travels in Europe as a kid.

by Anonymousreply 418October 30, 2021 5:03 AM

Yeah it's already been posted he was fluent in German

by Anonymousreply 419October 30, 2021 5:06 AM

Monty and Marlene conversed in German (but not with Rosemary, I presume).

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by Anonymousreply 420October 30, 2021 5:32 AM

By coincidence, Ethel also apparently buried her toothbrush with her dead twin.

by Anonymousreply 421October 30, 2021 1:36 PM

R418: If you're speaking of From Here to Eternity, his character is a lifer in the Army, which is one of the ironies of his character.

by Anonymousreply 422October 30, 2021 1:40 PM

R422, he was talking about "The Big Lift."

by Anonymousreply 423October 30, 2021 4:23 PM

Besides Reflections in a Golden Eye (which I was reminded about because of the new Marlon Brando thread), I wonder what movies Monty could have done if he somehow mostly cleaned up and didn't die. I can see him in They Shoot Horses Don't They, or Network. Or maybe a David Lynch film - Dean Stockwell's part in Blue Velvet......

by Anonymousreply 424November 2, 2021 2:08 AM

Monty bottomed? With his colitis, that must’ve been uncomfortable…

by Anonymousreply 425November 2, 2021 2:20 AM

[quote] Power was too old for the Lancaster role and all wrong for a sergeant

Lancaster was a year older than Power…

by Anonymousreply 426November 2, 2021 2:31 AM

R425 He was famously a masochist.......

by Anonymousreply 427November 2, 2021 2:33 AM

Did they use real soldiers for From Here To Eternity, too? There was something not quite right about the "extras".

by Anonymousreply 428November 2, 2021 2:40 AM

It was filmed on location and they had the cooperation of the army, so it's pretty likely they had active duty soldiers as extras. I know a number of people who were extras and even had small speaking parts in Vietnam war films made in Thailand. Not unusual and the Army didn't care whether they did or not.

by Anonymousreply 429November 2, 2021 3:06 AM

"The Army offered Zinnemann officers who would serve as technical advisors, troops, and the use of Schofield Barracks in Hawaii as a location. A nation-wide search of Army surplus stores yielded pre-Pearl Harbor style Springfield rifles, canvas leggings, campaign hats and flat steel helmets. The extras, real soldiers, drilled to learn the use of the outdated equipment."

by Anonymousreply 430November 2, 2021 3:11 AM

Burt was sex on a stick. Monty never smouldered. Ever.

by Anonymousreply 431November 2, 2021 3:19 AM

I've seen both bios on Clift, the old one from the 80s and the recent one from his nephew. One of the beards, Judy Balaban, made an appearance in both and what she had to say about her and Monty's "relationship" is kinda cringe. She kept on insisting that they had a "connection" and were in love with each other and even slept together. How is she not getting it through, and by now at her old age, that he was using her as a beard? I mean, at the time Monty was being blackmailed with late night phone calls and threats of outing his sexuality, that sure would've destroyed his career, but he played a strategic move by bearding up with the socialite brat daughter of the head of Paramount Studios, and by doing so he became "untouchable". Gossip columnist like Hedda Hopper wouldn't have dared mess with Senior Balaban's crotchfruit.

Once there was enough publicity for the "romance", Monty dropped her like a hot potato and didn't even bother to say goodbye. She ended up with Merv Griffin.

by Anonymousreply 432November 2, 2021 3:29 AM

So she was sapphic

by Anonymousreply 433November 2, 2021 3:32 AM

R431, he could smoulder. See him with his shirt off digging that hole. With muscles so tight you'll be quivering tonight.

by Anonymousreply 434November 2, 2021 3:42 AM

To each his own, R431. Lancaster for me was a giant loaf of Wonder Bread while Clift smouldered through Red River, A Place in the Sun, FHTE and Indiscretion of an American Wife.

R424, coincidentally I was wondering about that same thing and also came up with Network as a good fit. Also Death in Venice, The China Syndrome, The Verdict, Missing...

by Anonymousreply 435November 2, 2021 3:55 AM

[quote] Death in Venice

I don't think so.

That role was so extravagant that I don't think any American could do it and keep our sympathy. Even Mr Bogarde was faintly risible. Monty did not have an interesting speaking voice which was another thing working against him.

His attempt at Freud was rather painful but I hear Huston was an absolute bitch towards Monty on the set.

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by Anonymousreply 436November 2, 2021 4:04 AM

FWIW, Judy Balaban married Tony Franciosa, Don Quine, and Jay Kanter (producer, author). Kanter was her rebound from Monty.

by Anonymousreply 437November 2, 2021 4:11 AM

Absence of Malice, Mass Appeal, old gran daddy in Crimes of the Heart

by Anonymousreply 438November 2, 2021 4:15 AM

Which actor would you have cast to play von Aschenbach, R436?

by Anonymousreply 439November 2, 2021 4:55 AM

R439 The chosen actor has to be someone who's convincing as an intellectual artist. The subtext of the story is the struggle between Apollonian and Dionysian art. There's that flashback scene in the movie where Aschenbach is arguing with Alfred played by Mark Burns. We ignore that scene but the actor must live it.

I suggest John Hurt would have been convincing as von Aschenbach.

by Anonymousreply 440November 2, 2021 5:07 AM

Whose stupid idea was it to have Monty shave his chest for FROM HERE TO ETERNITY?

On the other hand, his very furry face and beetle brows as FREUD covered up a lot of his smashed-up face.

by Anonymousreply 441November 2, 2021 4:10 PM

[quote] Whose stupid idea was it to have Monty shave his chest for FROM HERE TO ETERNITY?

I don't know whose idea it was but it was a good idea. He was hairy as a monkey. I think he used electrolysis to get rid of some of it. He and Elizabeth Taylor had that same condition: "oddly hirsute bodies."

by Anonymousreply 442November 2, 2021 8:13 PM

Speaking of chest hair, I wonder why Bill Holden had to shave his chest hair but co-star Geoffrey Horne was allowed to keep his fur. Was Holden's masculinity too overpowering, while Horne's not enough?

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by Anonymousreply 443November 2, 2021 9:30 PM

They had to shave Holden because they agree with Kate Hepburn and I that people over 40 should clean themselves up.

Dangling tendrils and wrinkles don't go together.

by Anonymousreply 444November 2, 2021 9:45 PM

R432, I never heard that he was getting calls threatening to out him. Is that in the newer documentary?

by Anonymousreply 445November 2, 2021 10:52 PM

In 'Making Montgomery Clift', Robert Clift said Deborah Kerr didn't even share a scene with Monty in 'From Here To Eternity', therefore how could she have possibly known anything about his sexuality. "He wanted to love women but he was attracted to men, and he crucified himself for it" is what Kerr is quoted as saying in Bosworth's biography, however there seems to be an error on Robert Clift's part because in the same bio Kerr describes the scene that she and Monty were in together:

“His concentration was positively violent. We had only one scene together. I walked behind him and Monty was supposed to say to Burt, “Who's that?’ He spent two days figuring out how to say, ‘Who’s that?’ ”.

by Anonymousreply 446November 2, 2021 11:47 PM

And it's possible that Monty did confined in Kerr. Jack Larson said Monty was very excited about making the picture and wanted to get to the airport very early to make sure he’d be sitting next to Deborah Kerr on the plane. During the shooting in Hawaii they had dinner together every night and there are several photos that corroborate their interaction with each other.

I don't know why Robert Clift left that information out. He made it sound like Kerr knew nothing about Monty.

by Anonymousreply 447November 2, 2021 11:52 PM

R445, no. It was mentioned in Patricia Bosworth's biography on Clift. Quote: "He kept having his phone number changed to prevent the increasing number of strange calls. Lately there had been threats of blackmail too—from people who imagined he was a homosexual and said they had seen him at the old Bickford's all-night gay cafeteria on Fifty-first Street and Lexington Avenue, gazing into the mirror waiting to be picked up."

by Anonymousreply 448November 2, 2021 11:59 PM

I'm sure this has already been said, but I'll say it anyway: he wasn't a martyr. He drank hinself to death. And I say this as a fan.

by Anonymousreply 449November 3, 2021 12:09 AM

Wasn’t he supposed to have hebephrenic schizophrenia?

by Anonymousreply 450November 3, 2021 12:49 AM

Delusions about Hebrews?

by Anonymousreply 451November 3, 2021 1:24 AM

R449 I did not mean he was literally a martyr - I explained it above it was partially a joke, partially serious because he died in such a stupid, senseless way, but it was a way so many mid-century gay men fell victim to. Pretty much every well known gay from that time had substance abuse problems.

by Anonymousreply 452November 3, 2021 1:44 AM

Maybe you should have said gay patron saint, instead of martyr.

by Anonymousreply 453November 3, 2021 4:13 AM

[quote] Pretty much every well known gay from that time had substance abuse problems.

I don't think Van Johnson, Farley Granger, George Cukor or Roddy McDowall did. I'm not sure though.

by Anonymousreply 454November 3, 2021 4:18 AM

You're correct, R454. Technically, cum is not a substance that leads to abuse problems, strictly speaking. At least among sensible people.

by Anonymousreply 455November 3, 2021 4:29 AM

After watching the nephew's documentary, he is respectful towards Bosworth but raises some good points about her judgment and whether - if not irresponsible - she sensationalized some things, and then there's Kevin McCarthy saying she made shit up. Again, her book came out over 40 years ago, when mores were quite different and identities and secrets had to be protected, so I think we may need to read the various quotes from it more skeptically.

by Anonymousreply 456November 3, 2021 12:32 PM

[quote]At the beginning of his career, Paul Newman was often accused of imitating Brando by critics.

There's a book coming next fall based on recordings Newman made throughout his life.

"The recordings, completed about 10 years before his death, describe Newman’s early life, including his difficult relationship with his parents, as well as his troubles with drinking, his shortcomings as a husband in his first marriage, and his flaws as a parent. It is candid about his sorrow when his son, Scott, died of a drug and alcohol overdose at 28.

The book also delves into Newman’s insecurity in his younger years, exploring his jealousy of peers like James Dean and Marlon Brando when they were all working in Hollywood."

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by Anonymousreply 457November 3, 2021 3:18 PM

I watched the nephew's documentary again. This time round l noticed Monty's nurse/lover Lorenzo James was acting weird about Monty's sexuality. He kept claiming Monty was bisexual then told the nephew to just let it go and stop digging. Why did he make such a big deal out of answering a simple question? Seemed unnecessary.

by Anonymousreply 458November 15, 2021 2:48 AM

Also looked like he didn't want to take any responsibility for the information he gave to LaGuardia for the Monty biography.

by Anonymousreply 459November 15, 2021 2:52 AM

"To think my uncle slept with Elizabeth Taylor & Marilyn Monroe - the best beautiful women in the world'

What a fucking load of hogwash.

by Anonymousreply 460November 15, 2021 4:59 AM

How can he be a gay martyr if he never came out as gay?

He had a pretty fucked up life due to illness, a car accident and substance abuse but none of that had anything to do with him being gay.

And he was't anyone's martyr. He died in a bathtub, probably from substance abuse.

by Anonymousreply 461November 15, 2021 11:24 AM

About r420, isn't that Lucy and Desi with their backs to us?

by Anonymousreply 462November 15, 2021 12:18 PM

R460, He never slept with Marilyn but he did sleep with Liz, however he wasn't able to "get it up".

by Anonymousreply 463November 15, 2021 3:59 PM

R461, Given the era it wouldn't have been wise for him to come out, if anything it would have been career suicide for any gay actor to come out at that time. You had tabloid magazines like Confidential threatening to out big stars like Rock Hudson. I think Monty would've come out eventually, if he had lived through the 70s. He was headed in that direction anyway, in 1967 he was set to play the role of a repressed gay army officer in Reflections in a Golden Eye. He had turned down playing gay characters before, in fear that it would expose his own sexuality, but now it looked like he was ready to be exposed, unfortunately he died before he was able to fulfil the role.

by Anonymousreply 464November 15, 2021 4:20 PM

I think Monty Clift and James Dean would have both came out in the 70s.

by Anonymousreply 465November 15, 2021 4:57 PM

[quote] He died in a bathtub, probably from substance abuse.

No, he died in bed, of a heart attack brought on by "occlusive coronary artery disease", according to the autopsy report. He'd been in terrible health for years, in chronic pain. He didn't die of and OD or alcohol poisoning. His body just seemed to give out. He had terrible luck when it came to his health, just like his pal Elizabeth Taylor.

by Anonymousreply 466November 15, 2021 9:51 PM

I could see Clift working with Warhol, Coppola, Scorsese or doing French New Wave movies. He liked challenging roles

by Anonymousreply 467November 15, 2021 9:52 PM

R466 His nurse found him in the bathtub.. DEAD!

by Anonymousreply 468November 15, 2021 11:07 PM

R466 Stop lying. His body didn't just give out. He was 45 years old! LOL

by Anonymousreply 469November 15, 2021 11:08 PM

R467, Monty Clift had attended Andy Warhol's Factory parties. Filmmaker Jonas Mekas said, "Montgomery Clift stood there by himself, and nobody spoke to him, and he looked sort of very, very sad there." Apparently, Warhol enjoyed humiliating Monty Clift; he'd point towards him and then say to his other guests, "see that man, he USED to be Montgomery Clift".

by Anonymousreply 470November 16, 2021 1:01 AM

R462, Yes. They were watching Tallulah perform at The Sands.

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by Anonymousreply 471November 16, 2021 1:20 AM

In the Bosworth book there 's a sentence where young Barbra Streisand cornered him at a party - I assume to ask about The Method.

by Anonymousreply 472November 16, 2021 1:35 AM

[quote] His nurse found him in the bathtub.. DEAD!

His male nurse, Lorenzo "Larry" James, found his employer ,Montgomery Clift, naked IN BED, still wearing glasses, no longer breathing. You are plainly a dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 473November 16, 2021 1:36 AM

I don’t think that he and Lorenzo were lovers…

by Anonymousreply 474November 16, 2021 1:48 AM

He was too pathetic at that stage to have a lover, Lorenzo was a paid home health aide.

by Anonymousreply 475November 16, 2021 1:58 AM

What did he do for his 101st birthday? What can you do at that age?

by Anonymousreply 476November 16, 2021 1:58 AM

In the nephew's documentary it's implied that Lorenzo James was more than just his male nurse, I don't know if that's true or not. Lorenzo didn't know Monty until late 63/64 so how could he possibly know anything about his sex life. The only woman Monty "dated" in that time period was an obsessive German stan, a great big baroness lady who followed Monty all the way from Germany. Even she knew he was gay and wanted to give her young handsome brother to him as a "gift".

by Anonymousreply 477November 16, 2021 3:02 AM

Even in the old home movies from the 1940s, Monty can be seen zeroing in on a black man at what might be Coney Island? and then pursuing him as the scene is cut. He liked black men on the dl.

by Anonymousreply 478November 16, 2021 3:30 AM

From what I learned from DL> Monty, Farley and Brando all liked black dick. That's hot.

by Anonymousreply 479November 16, 2021 3:41 AM
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by Anonymousreply 480November 16, 2021 3:47 AM

[quote] Were James Dean and Clift ever an item off record

Apparently they never met. Dean was an obsessive fan and stalked him and would try to call him so much. Monty changed his number. Then when Dean tragically died. Monty felt depressed and guilt over not reaching back to Dean. I imagine Monty would have been much nicer to Dean than Brando who was an asshole to Dean.

by Anonymousreply 481November 16, 2021 4:17 AM

478 Girl please! ALL White men like BBC (Hell, all men PERIOD like it). The only ones who don't pursue it are either straight or don't feel confident in their abilities to get any! LOL

by Anonymousreply 482November 16, 2021 10:11 AM

R473 You are a DUMBASS!

"James ran down to the back garden and climbed up a ladder to enter through the second-floor bedroom window. Inside, he found Clift dead: He was undressed, lying in his half-filled bathtub, with eyeglasses on and both fists clenched by his side."

"No evidence was found that suggested foul play or suicide. It is commonly believed that drug addiction was responsible for Clift's many health problems and his death."

YOU STUPID CUNT!

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by Anonymousreply 483November 16, 2021 10:16 AM

I'm sure Monty was able to fuck many men of color.

by Anonymousreply 484November 16, 2021 11:38 AM

R484 More likely than not, they fucked HIM! 😁

by Anonymousreply 485November 16, 2021 12:18 PM

In his last two movies, he looked like he had lost a lot of upper body mass. If he was in poor health in his 40s, he may have had "manorexia" "issues" on top of everything else.

by Anonymousreply 486November 16, 2021 2:43 PM

His colitis also played havoc with his diet. It affected his nutrition.

by Anonymousreply 487November 16, 2021 2:49 PM

R483, YOU ARE AN INSANE RETARD. In both the very good biographies of Clift by Patricia Bosworth and Robert LaGuardia it was reported that Clift was found dead in bed, wearing glasses. That's a fact. And saying something that is "commonly believed" doesn't mean there's any truth to it. Medical reports don't lie. He died of a heart attack, brought on by occlusive coronary artery disease, not an OD or alcohol poisoning. That too is a fact.

You seem very upset....because you think Clift died in a bathtub from drugs or alcohol? You're quite overwrought over THAT? A trip to the nearest mental health facility is definitely in order. Go to one, pronto. You're obviously one sick motherfucker.

by Anonymousreply 488November 16, 2021 9:58 PM

These comments about black men reek of fetishization 🤢

by Anonymousreply 489November 16, 2021 10:34 PM

At :52. That grin on his face when he saw that handsome black guy.

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by Anonymousreply 490November 17, 2021 12:39 AM

Libby Holman was mentioned upthread. I find it hard to believe anything sexual went on between Libby Holman and Monty, just the thought of it is stomach churning. Holman was physically repulsive, middle-aged, ugly and preyed on young men, she even went after her own nephew's roommates. I don't know how she bagged herself so many successful young rich studs that were way above her in every aspect. Asia Argento comes to mind, but without the looks.

by Anonymousreply 491November 17, 2021 12:42 AM

There's a bizarre moment in Patricia Bosworth's Monty Clift biography where she stops talking about Monty and starts writing about the Holman/Zachary Smith Reynolds murder scandal, a whole chapter dedicated to just that. Like was she trying to squeeze two books into one? The Holman story should've been reduced to a footnote.

by Anonymousreply 492November 17, 2021 12:44 AM

R488, YOU'RE A FUCKING FOOL!

Nothing you are alleging is backed up by anything. Where are these so called quotes from these self-proclaimed "good biographies?" Who are you? You're just a piece of shit talking out of an open asshole.

You're a dumbass that is upset because someone called you on your bullshit. You are no authority. Who are you to dispute anything. You weren't there so you don't know shit. So fuck all the way off and die trash!

by Anonymousreply 493November 17, 2021 6:00 AM

I think somebody is mixing Clift up with that other gay martyr, Whitney Houston, who was found "dead to the tub."

by Anonymousreply 494November 17, 2021 1:14 PM

494 NAH, Clift is no gay "martyr" but he was found in the tub.

by Anonymousreply 495November 17, 2021 1:31 PM

Tub troll...

by Anonymousreply 496November 17, 2021 1:48 PM

drowns in her own spewed blue vitriol.

by Anonymousreply 497November 17, 2021 5:49 PM

R493 is obviously a retarded, insane troll. Screaming about Clift dying in a bathtub (which he didn't)...whew, what a retard. Needs to be in an asylum, that one.

by Anonymousreply 498November 17, 2021 9:59 PM

Montgomery Clift died in bed. Everything I’ve ever read about him indicates as much, and I’ve read a lot about him. Every biography says Clift died in bed with his glasses on.

Such an odd thing about which to be unhinged.

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by Anonymousreply 499November 17, 2021 10:13 PM

R498 is such pathetic dumbass that he is still going on about this. He can't get over the fact that he was wrong! HAHAHAHA Get a life loser!

by Anonymousreply 500November 17, 2021 10:22 PM

R500 = pathetic asshole troll

by Anonymousreply 501November 17, 2021 10:47 PM

R501 You are a loser! Give it up! HAHAHAHAHA

by Anonymousreply 502November 17, 2021 10:49 PM

R502 = loser troll again

by Anonymousreply 503November 17, 2021 10:56 PM

Your mother is a loser too R503! HAHAHAHA

by Anonymousreply 504November 17, 2021 10:57 PM

R490, that eskimo kiss he planted on Kevin McCarthy at the 2:30 mark, but Kevin really had no clue?

by Anonymousreply 505November 18, 2021 4:01 PM

I mean how often do men go around giving other men eskimo kisses? Surely Kevin must've known....

by Anonymousreply 506November 18, 2021 4:03 PM

Most times Kevin McCarthy looked like he's smelling the whole Keebler factory. I don't buy it.

by Anonymousreply 507November 19, 2021 5:52 AM

Montgomery Clift and William Lemassena made a nice couple. Shame there isn't much on their relationship, or any of Clift's relationships, too much focus on beards. I hope there will be a movie on Monty and his relationships in the future.

by Anonymousreply 508November 20, 2021 3:21 AM

Ah, Bill! My most friend.

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by Anonymousreply 509November 20, 2021 4:10 AM

It was fun to see Sydney Greenstreet in those films

by Anonymousreply 510November 20, 2021 7:14 PM
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