The Great Resignation Is Accelerating

I work in hospitality as a front desk clerk at a small hotel, and we cannot find enough housekeepers to clean our vacant dirty rooms. It's so bad that we often have to close out our inventory at only 30 percent occupancy on weeknights because we don't have the staff to clean more rooms than that. The labor shortage has really harmed us.

R1 What does your company pay the housekeepers? Minimum wage I assume.

R2 They are paid $12 per hour, and they are receiving a $1 per hour raise within the next month. The company also has begun offering a $500 starting bonus if the successful applicant stays with us at least three months.

That's not a livable wage.

I work at a small hotel also, 200 rooms, we have the same problem. I manage the front office. We close our inventory at 60%, except on weekends, when all housekeepers are on deck. Since the hospitality industry has started bouncing back, I've gotten 3 raises, just by going out for interviews at other hotels, getting an offer and giving the GM my resignation. It's a worker's world!

[quote]i've just discovered r/antiwork

[quote]inject all of this into my veins - Travis

My niece who is a medical assistant has quit and gotten 4 jobs in a 3 month period and went from making $12 per hour to $22 . This last one not only paid her much more,but she has instant benefits and 2 weeks paid vacation. Nursing homes are screaming for help .

Im curious the 2 who work at small hotels ,do you have a manager ? They cant go clean a room ? Your asses cant go clean a room ? Mind you,I wouldnt do it for free,but if they offered me a tidy sum I sure would. Id work my shift then tell the manager/owner "Now I will clean rooms for $20 each" .

[quote] They are paid $12 per hour,

No wonder they are quitting. Pathetic pay rate for cleaning cum stained sheets.

The lesson is we’re not paying our workers a livable wage. However the powers that be will determine we need more third world immigration.

Hotel workers are notoriously underpaid. When I worked front desk we were getting 9.50/hr. Standing on your feet for 8 hours and dealing with assholes for that money? Fuck it.

Don't most or all housekeepers make cash tips also? Even if some or even most Americans or foreigners don't tip their housekeeper daily or upon leaving?

I tip but not much, only $1 or $2 daily at Motel 6 and similar places .

How many here tip or don't tip the housekeeper? Every day? Only upon departure day? How much? Where to leave the tip, in the sink so they see it? Taped to the tv? On the nightstand?

If I tip upon departure only, then the housekeeper that day gets the larger tip -- but not a different housekeeper from the other days. This doesn't seem fair except to that day's housekeeper.

Bank branches in Silicon Valley are closing because they can't find enough staff. Those jobs have always been underpaid and I guess the banks are trying to maintain that tradition instead of offering higher salaries to attract new employees now.

This is good. The only way to get some of those insanely increasing corporate profits and CEO salaries into workers (aka, the majority’s) hands is forced wage increases to attract workers. The $12/hour wage could be doubled - and the hotel would make MORE money because they can achieve +50-70% occupancy making $100+/room.

Given the absence of political will to force the fair allocation of profits, this may be the only opportunity to force wider distribution. Just as a reminder, corporations’ taxes were cut by 40% in 2017 - effectively the government handed corporations a 40% increase in profits while giving individuals a 3% cut. It’s blatantly clear that capitalism has overrun democracy.

People are fed up with working for peanuts while the fat cats get fatter on their labor.

I stopped at a Taco Bell last night for a quick burrito. I went to the drive in line being the inside was closed due to a labor shortage. The young woman who took my order by speaker couldn't tell me what items were vegetarian on the menu. I asked her why and she said it was her first shirt. I waited forever forever for the burrito and then realized the woman who took my order was the only staff present. The burrito was complete crap with undercooked rice. the woman mentioned she wasn't coming back the next day. I suspect they will need to raise salaries or close due to lack of staff.

Our trash didn’t get picked up on its normal day.

Sometimes they skip a house by accident, but nobody on the nearby streets had theirs picked up and there wasn’t a holiday this week throwing off the schedule by a day.

When I called to give my address for another attempt, the recording stated that they were short-staffed and were doing their best to finish all the pick-ups by end of business the following day.

Uh, doesn't some of it have to do with the fact that 600k more people are dead?

I wonder if the fact that we are in the midst of the Great Boomer Retirement Age is part of this as well.

If corporate America took better care of their employees. We would be in thus position right now.

Take care of your employees & your employees will take care of you.

I always say that, because it's true!

It's funny R1 that the company you work for would rather exempt 30 percent of their rooms from sale than pay their employees a living wage. That's pretty short-sighted.

^^Sorry, lose 70% of the rooms.

r21, I agree. They probably think this is just short term and temporary and that they can ride this out.

Are a lot of people resigning from office/corporate type jobs?

^ I would be interested to know - any HR/Recruiters on the thread that can provide insight?

From what I can see the "great resignation" has been about people not wanting to do these hardwork low paying jobs r24. The world of middle class office jobs seems to be the same as always.

A friend of mine works for a huge insurance company. The IT dept. has lost so many people that they are starting to have to delay everything. They are really struggling to find replacements.

I know retail used to exploit teenagers and married fraus who worked but were not the breadwinner in the household, so they were used to paying next to nothing because they could. Now it’s not worth the health risk with COVID and increased in assholery from the general public. Not feeling bad for them at all. Like Barbara Ehrenreich said, “the real philanthropists are people who work jobs with salaries they can’t afford to live on”.

r28 that's true. So many members of the general public are complete nutcases these days, many people who don't depend on a paycheck but would normally work retail just for pin money or as a way to get out of the house aren't bothering anymore. Who the hell would want to deal with psycho Karens and Chads all day?

It’s interesting how when businesses exploit the common worker it’s just business, but if workers expect more, they are lazy, entitled or taking advantage.

The postal service is helping Amazon deliver packages on Sundays now due to lack of employees.

It occurred to me that the 700,000+ covid dead in America might have contributed to the worker shortage, but actually less than a quarter of the dead were under 65 (less than 200k people)—I doubt that would seriously affect employment.

If employers aren't paying a decent wage, workers will evaporate now that the internet/cell phones offer them opportunities to make a few dollars here and there. It's pathetic, but no less than what they'd get at a crappy job with no benefits, and they can make their own schedules.

A lot of businesses hire from temp agencies and keep them on “contracts” for years with a lower wage and no benefits. That way they can exploit workers and fire them at will, because technically they work for the temp agency, not the company.

[quote] Uh, doesn't some of it have to do with the fact that 600k more people are dead?

Half of whom were over the age of 82 . . .

Here is some data r24/r25.

As you see, it's people without a college degree where the data is stark. People with a college degree don't show the same extreme movement.

As much as they get bashed on DL, I love millennials for forcing companies to accommodate people’s lifestyles and greater work/life balance.

When Biden Benefits end, savings run out, no bettter offers come in, and boredom at home is real , people will be back to work at whatever employers pay.

I recently saw some postings on Indeed for Amazon DC office positions and the salaries were pitiful. No college graduate can live in a major city on those salaries unless they live at home with their parents.

Also: increasing layers of useless managers who are never out of a job because of their punching-down tactics and connections and who have nothing to their subordinates except for shitty, temporary contracts with lots of obligations and responsibilities.

^ “nothing to offer to”

R32, I think you are missing a lot in that analysis.

Many of those that died were caregivers to grandchildren. So a lot of people lost their childcare options. They also did a lot of stuff to cover those that did work.

Also many people inherited money over the last 18months, and property, and can afford to take some time off of work.

In other words, all the missing people is contributing, albeit indirectly.

I took a pay cut to work from home. I don't want to deal with difficult people in person, whether coworkers or clients. I am experiencing much less stress since starting this new job.

BTW, I stayed at a large Hyatt in Glendale CA last week, and was told rooms were cleaned only every 3 days.

I have a degree and an easy but not uninteresting job that I have held for many years. I have worked entirely from home for two decades, enjoy a lot of autonomy and an exceptional amount of paid time off, and have lived in a bubble free of office politics until two or so years ago. If there is a downside of this it's that I traded advancement and major salary raises for a stable and static position where my interactions are minimal and pleasant and I have a lot of time away from work. I'm sixty and might have suffered on for a couple of years more to feather my nest a little more comfortably, but fuck it, I'm out at the start of next year.

Pressure for inserting new intermediary levels of reporting and endless meetings and planning and the constant taking of pulses is bad enough. These things could be overlooked easily enough were it not for the increasing drive to fire people like myself and replace them with as many newer, cheaper people as it takes, and to jump about without a plan but driven only by the reckless shortsightedness. For years I've had the luxury of one or two big projects, ambitious but achievable, now I'm asked to spend more than half my time helping others who planned poorly put out their fires and meet their deadlines. Pay has been frozen while profits soar, and to smooth over this point we get better bonuses but not better enough, and ridiculous token gestures like a $200 allowance for home office furniture now that the company is letting leases expire right and left and pocketing the extra $15,000 per office-based position.

I don't need the salary, I don't need to worry about a gap in medical insurance, and where previously I had entertained working a shorter week on very focused projects for more money, now I can't be bothered. The well water at work tastes bad. If Covid and age reinforced any message it's that time is valuable and grows ever more so. The people I know who are resigning are in some more or less similar position to me, they are deciding to retire earlier than they had previously considered and they are glad to be out of the work game. It's a small segment of the "great resignation" movement of people.

R30 that philosophy is baked into the most basic concepts of business.

People telling unreasonable employers to fuck off may be one of the few positive legacies of the pandemic. I hope it continues.

True about the childcare, R41, but I'm not so sure about the inheritances of several hundred thousand dead old people making that much of a difference, even temporarily, in their offspring's employment. Most of the people we're talking about won't have had a great deal of savings, if any.

R45 Thats how I quit my job in May. I told my boss to go fuck herself and to do this shit her goddamn self.

I was passionate and dedicated to my job, I even came up with the new name for the business in 2016. I knew what color paint the walls were, I helped pick out the new floor tiles, I did the marketing and social media and website and helped launch a cosmetics line and products and pricing and data and just everything. A lot of people in the area thought I was the owner.

And she treated me like utter shit. And the clientele was absolutely horrible and when they were abusive, she would scold you if you mentioned it and try and turn the tables. “They were awful to you? Well what did you do them to make them behave that way!” Of course unless they’re awful to her, then they were assholes.

When I quit that day she sent me a text saying she sent me an e-mail. Very condescending one because she’s a Karen and she’s a victim. The reason why she sent an e-Mail is in case of a lawsuit or whatever, she would have this conversation documented, which is why I professionally aired everything out as to why I quit. She never responded back. It was the first e-mail since I’ve known her where she never responded back to. Her husband is a lawyer and I’m 100% sure he told her to leave it alone when he read it.

She lied about raises and physically disciplined employees. She’d tell you she’s giving you a raise and then never do it. She would grab you by the wrist or arm if you did something wrong. That wasn’t in my e-mail response back to her but that’s who she was as a boss.

I was also really nervous about employers reaching out to her for background checks because I’ve seen her trash former employees when others call for background checks even though that’s in violation.

Thankfully my new job never called her lol. I also told him flat out about her cause if that’s how they were I didn’t want to work for them. They’re the total opposite.

And I have to mentioned that I worked in Salem, MA. It was 11 years! And this month of October would have been a nightmare for me and it’s the first time in 11 years I’m going to have Halloween off. It’s actually a really big emotional deal for me because it’s my favorite holiday and I can finally enjoy it again.

Columbus Day was always the worst too. I have holidays off now and went to my first corn maze. It was lovely.

To get out of retail hours finally is the best thing thats happened to me. The weekends and holidays are actually fun and me time now, not the worst days of the week.

I find this whole topic fascinating, and am anxious to see how it all plays out. Of course, it's depressing that the non-thinking half of the country just immediately chalks this up to lazy people sitting home collecting Democrat gimmes, but there seem to be a lot more to this situation than a simple matter of extra money being handed out.

R32, a lot of "long haulers" can't work anymore. Our town's grooming shops are booked until the end of time because a lot of groomers got sick months ago and are on supplemental oxygen or just too weak to do the physically demanding work of dog grooming. These ladies aren't "lazy" they just can't walk more than 10 steps without getting winded.

Unemployment Insurance is not a lot of money in most states.

I don't understand how people can quit their low paying jobs yet continue to pay their bills. Are they getting higher paying jobs quickly? That doesn't seem to jibe with a "Great Resigntion" - it is more like getting a higher paid job.

Is this correct, or are people quitting low paying jobs and managing to pay bills...with nothing?

[quote]She would grab you by the wrist or arm if you did something wrong.

I would've punched that cunt in the face. Technically, it would've been self-defense.

I haven't seen it much outside of the service industry - especially restaurant workers. I'd assume if a "resigner" is going to a going to a different job, that doesn't count.

Do you guys see it? If so, where are all these people going? I'd assume a small subset has the money to just not work. But most people need to work.

The slaves are revolting! Who knew?

Row your own fucking yacht!

R52 I didn’t have a low paying job, I would say I was in the middle. But if you were locked down and on unemployment until September 2020, you made about $15,000 off the $600/week and the stimulus. If your unemployment was $200 a week, you made almost $20,000. THEN, keep going with the unemployment and replace the $600 with $300 and the additional stimulus check. Low paying workers made more money or as much money doing nothing than they did working.

And you also have to understand too, 35% of millennials still live at home. Millennials are 72 million of the population so that’s 25 million Americans. Not even counting 18+ Gen Z who still live at home.

Thanks for that explanation R57. I would not had been able to survive on unemployment, as I am from a higher pay grade, and I sometimes forget that for many people, especially those bunking up with family, unemployment was a pay raise.

r12, you cheap ass

Take your $1 tip and shove it right up your ass

R54, a lot of them get manufacturing or call center jobs

You are from that higher pay grade until you are not, r58.

Thanks to the gods and my high GPA, R58, my pay grade is encoded by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. And with the never ending supply of baby boomers, things are looking up!

When I practiced in Palm Springs years ago, CMS gave me an extra quarterly bonus, for practicing in a rural area!

Oh hell, this above was meant for our Cassandra R61

[quote] I find this whole topic fascinating, and am anxious to see how it all plays out.

It will suck for a long time. Technology was always going to do away with these jobs. Now it will do it a whole lot SOONER. Business owners will be willing to pay anything for new technology

If America wasn't so damned stupid and had a 20 yr plan, they would have told the public this information 20 years ago and they would have also launched all kinds of education programs to promote this technology and get workers ready for this and start low cost education programs to get ready for this

Instead America just tries to play catch up. We can't even make a 5 year plan. Compared to Europe we are so low tech. They have bullet trains and we still have Amtrak, which hasn't made a profit in my lifetime. It would be cheaper to fly every single Amtrak rider than to keep subsidizing it. Amtrak doesn't work and there's no plans to fix it. That's America in a nutshell

R64, you nailed it perfectly.

As an IT person, I can’t begin to tell you the number of people hired nowadays without the most basic understanding of the Microsoft Office programs. They in danger gurl!

I’m truly glad to see service workers getting more pay. The professional class? Still getting hosed.

I am a doctor and expect over half of the most common medications I prescribe to be OTC in a decade. People will be able to order lab tests and then get the results automatically and the computer program will provide prescriptions if needed.

I quit my first job in my industry in 2012, after 4 years at the company. For the first year and a half, I was dedicated and excited, did whatever I could. Eventually it dawned on me I would never get a decent wage and the company would never grow. I started saving every penny I could to get away. I finally had decent savings after a few more years. When I gave my notice, the boss asked if I would stay on in a transitional phase. I've never said no faster to anything in my life. Once I got my last check, I blocked everybody in management.

I have a much much better job now, but I can't imagine working at a hellhole like that during this crisis.

R69s story reminded me of the time I was the manager of 3 newsstands in downtown buildings. 2 banks and an insurance company. They sold cigs,snacks,sodas,gum,etc. Surprisingly busy and profitable. Anyhoo,I worked for that old bitch who owned them for 3 years,and one day she tells me to fire the other staff as she had replacements. Turns out to be her sister and 2 nieces. They were reprehensibly stupid to boot,so profits plunged. After a few months of this ,a good customer told me she overheard the owner telling her sister she was going to fire me . I immediately found another job and told the old bitch I was quitting. She had the gall to ask me to stay 2 more weeks and train her sister in the ordering,books etc. I looked at her like she was stupid and left. a few months later the stands closed.

[quote] As an IT person, I can’t begin to tell you the number of people hired nowadays without the most basic understanding of the Microsoft Office programs. They in danger gurl!

There are so many websites on the internet that teach Microsoft Office for free. Even Youtube has videos

I submit that the leisure class, frankly the idle Trump and our congresspersons, trickled their contemptuous of work ethic down unto the working class. Bravo.

I am in the infamous Delco outside Philadelphia. I see hiring signs everywhere but especially at service places ie restaurants, bars, fast food joints, etc. It's probably just as well for me personally but I am going to fast food places a lot less now because I have very little confidence I will have a positive experience due to the staffing and training issues. It's really scary.

[Quote] However the powers that be will determine we need more third world immigration.

If the obese German Frau has her way we will.

It used to be that cleaning lady jobs are completely gone and went to undocumenteds, then manufacturing jobs are gone and went to China. Now service jobs are going and soon robots will take over. MAGAs have blamed mexicans and China for so long, but it turns out, americans really dont want any kind of job all along.

R57 If you can make more on piddling UI then working it should tell us that the wage scale in Murica is...

..........

Wages are stagnant, cost of living is up, and for people who work with the public, customers are 900% more insane than they were before the pandemic. I don't blame them for quitting.

I could never work in a job where I had to deal with the general public. People are fucking CRAZY in this day and age.

Some of the articles I have read suggested that a lot of the people who never came back weren't the main breadwinners in their household and realized they didn't HAVE to work, especially in a potentially unhealthy environment. Others were able to find other jobs while their employers were shut down.

It'll be interesting to say how this plays out in the long run. What I am not going to like is the opportunistic unproductive finger pointing that will go on in our politics. Why do I have the feeling this will all end up costing the Average Joe more to get by?

[quote] BTW, I stayed at a large Hyatt in Glendale CA last week, and was told rooms were cleaned only every 3 days.

That's the new Chris Burrous clause the maid's union came up with.

R81 because for the first time in 40 years, workers have a strong negotiating position, and the elites will not tolerate that much longer.

The free market is a beautiful thing.

[quote]Im curious the 2 who work at small hotels ,do you have a manager ? They cant go clean a room ? Your asses cant go clean a room ? Mind you,I wouldnt do it for free,but if they offered me a tidy sum I sure would. Id work my shift then tell the manager/owner "Now I will clean rooms for $20 each"

I'm one of the hotel managers who replied above All of the managers do whatever job needs doing, but we are also working the front desk, driving our airport shuttle, helping in the kitchen.... We have plenty of people apply for jobs, you call to set up an interview, then most never show. Those few that do show get hired practically on the spot unless it's obvious they wouldn't work out. Out of those, most work a day or two then ghost us. Out of the last ten hired, I'd say two lasted more than two weeks. The rest either found other jobs or couldn't be bothered with something so mundane as work!

^ What do you pay them?

I think an issue is most people have no attention span because of smart phones - so mundane or repetitive tasks are even more difficult. I’m not justifying it, but I’m sure it plays a role. I don’t even look at my phone now at work. It’s a nice escape from all the madness and rampant ignorance online.

I am working with "recent college graduates" and they are fucking braindead. They went to "good schools" and can talk a good game, but they all seem to be working at a 4th grade level.

Signed,

Rich, entitled Millenial

[quote] All of the managers do whatever job needs doing

Does that include sucking off hot guests?

Yes, R89.

this thread suggests that the jobs that are open, are SHIT JOBS that nobody ever wants. Who wants to work at Taco Bell or be a shit hotel maid? No one ever wants these types of jobs.

This

[quote]They are paid $12 per hour,

Is it $12 an hour? Do they get benefits? Do the benefits come out of that $12?

I love the fact that I'm hearing so many people ask questions about this.

When a business says it can't find workers the FIRST question someone should ask is how much are they paying. Then you should ask if they get benefits and if they're dependent on full time work then do employees actually get enough work to qualify as full time.

So many business pull that stunt. We offer benefits but only if you work full time and then you NEVER get those hours.

I saw on another thread an article about a man who applied to 60 jobs and the only one that called him back then tried to negotiate down from the $10 an hour they were offering.

A few weeks ago on twitter an employer was getting ripped to shreds after complaining that he couldn't find workers. He said he was paying $14 an hour. Then he made the mistake of showing what people would have been doing: moving giant boxes and loading them into a truck and I mean GIANT boxes. There were also no benefits so if you got injured then you are shit out of luck.

I'm happy people aren't putting up with this anymore. It's always the same kinds of businesses: waiting tables, cleaning and moving things.

As for the person that mentioned Amazon, COUNTLESS stories have been written, even before the pandemic at how horrible they were. I had a friend that worked at one of their warehouses between jobs and the way he described it, it was like the 7th circle of hell.

People are leaving these jobs because they are dead end jobs. These people are also trying to get better jobs. Why can't people just tell the truth?

What about all the job postings from companies that are completely bogus? And long and confusing interview/hiring process?

Everybody is looking for better jobs at the same time. This is what is going on. No one wants to work at Taco Bell or be a shit hotel maid. And the long interview/hiring practices at other companies are to blame? The mass amount of bogus job postings that people are applying to are also to blame.

Whatever a job was paying per hour in 2005, you need to be paying twice that per hour now. Otherwise you’re not paying enough.

if you have jobs that no one wants, you have to change up that job. Labor is voluntarily. If you are relying on forced labor or desperate people, you need to look into a mirror. Many people in America can hire Maids. It is because you are not PAYING ENOUGH and you treat them like shit. They can work for rich, nice people.

That’s the problem—-companies can’t find enough people to exploit. Anyone that doesn’t have to work isn’t, and the people that have to are either under qualified or a bad employee. Businesses don’t understand that “it’s just business” is a two-way street. I tell younger people to look at yourself as a free agent, and you should always be loyal to yourself first. Businesses are learning the hard way that if you aren’t invested in your employees, they aren’t Invested in you. Also, people are valuing time and sanity more than more money for trinkets on Amazon they are too tired to use at the end of the day. COVID and Trump and Co. really pulled back the curtain to reveal what a shit system we have existed in. .

No one raise a huge stink about the laziness or graft of a spouse who leaves employment to stay home when kids are born, or until they are in school, or prefers to continue this pattern after the kids are established in school. There are personal and economic reasons behind such a decision. There are in many cases tax benefits and the reliance upon the income of another family member to support the decision.

How radically different is that from people who start at the lowest end of salaries, are kept in some limbo of "starting salary" and probationary periods with no benefits and no protections, who are begrudged every nickel and dime they "rob" from their employees when a minimum wage is raised from $5.15 or $7.25 or $11 an hours, or an impossibly grand $15.20 in Washington DC? And where do any of these jobs arrive? Pulling down $160,000 salaries as managers of an In and Out Burger joint? Not fucking likely. They get strung along, made to do every shit job, don't always enjoy regular hours, and are doled up infrequent and miserly little raises that amount to practically nothing at the end of a year. If they live with their parents or a relative or a boyfriend and decide it's too much fucking bother to keep a drive or ride a bus out to some shitty workplace to be afforded little respect and less money, who can blame them if they decide against paying for their boss to mouth off about the value of work ethic?

The number/percentage of people in the workplace is simply changing. The ideal that 96% of work eligible Americans should be engaged in making money at jobs is beginning to fall away. The fault isn't welfare moms and grifters working the system, it's that family structures are changing, attitudes toward income and work are changing, and the value placed on work at any cost to the employee is changing. Other countries have higher or lower unemployment rates and function fine, maybe not at peak, but on a personal level it's okay in many cases for someone to stay in their parents' home a few extra years, to start work later in life, to stop work sooner in life, to work part-time or in disconnected periods of time as opportunity or need arise.

If you're an employer who is not paying a living wage you're not a job provider you're a poverty exploiter.

Notice that ALL the blame is put on the lazy poor people and not the owners with a failed business plan? Maybe you shouldn't build a shitty motel and convenience store in the middle of no where without a population of employees.

THIS is the real issue- Goddamn greed.

I worked a second part time job at Pottery Barn and worked my ass off for 8 dollars an hour. After a year they rewarded me with a nickel an hour raise.

R101, there you go badmouthing your employer when he was just showing you how much he appreciated you!

It's the ungrateful who spoil things for the rest of us!

This what happens when you vote with your feet. So funny how these companies don’t think it’s them but rather everyone else.

People are finding out that for the peanuts the companies are paying and the huge workload they want them to do, they can do without.

How much Amazon or Dollar Store do you need. It turns out that you can do without 90% of that shit.

Rather downsize than lose your sanity for a shit job.

There’s just too much good stuff on Netflix & food delivery 🚚 🍕

Millies just can’t deal!

Yes, we need to pay workers more. However, we all need to be prepared to pay higher prices for everything from food to hotel rooms. Are you whiners prepared to put your money where your mouth is?

It's not just about the money. It's also about the bullshit office politics, toxic work environments, vile customers, or too much stress not commensurate with the remuneration.

R10, because they know the immigrants will pick up the slack. This is like a veiled threat to the native pospulation: if you don't do it , others will

And in that way they keep wages down.

We are at a strange juncture in history where more people are used to being served than serve

R108 is on the money

In the UK, the government mounted an aggressive campaign to get people back into the office after the pandemic, but they were not as successful as they thought they'll be, mainly because newer generations are less willing to put up with all the bs

R103, companies know it's them but they need to keep up the fiction. It is a form of widespread gaslighting to normalise unfair working practices and keeping their employees psychologically camptive, so they will toe the line.

*captive*

[quote]The postal service is helping Amazon deliver packages on Sundays now due to lack of employees.

The postal service has been delivering Amazon packages on Weekends for years. This is nothing new.

Those poor overworked US postal employees are being told "you get to work 60+ hours this week!!! No days off. " Amazon is one USPS' largest clients.

No one I mean NO ONE wants to work these days! 🤡

R115

[quote] Everyone I mean EVERYONE wants to be paid decently these days! 🤡

There, I fixed it for you

R116 “You get a job! You get a job! YOU ALL HET JOBS!”

[quote] Out of those, most work a day or two then ghost us. Out of the last ten hired, I'd say two lasted more than two weeks. The rest either found other jobs or couldn't be bothered with something so mundane as work!

Interesting R85. Do you think the job at your hotel is horrible? Why do people only last a few days before going elsewhere?

Get***

1/2 hour internet/gaming break every 2 hours and unlimited food delivery throughout the day

Politicians like to glorify small business owners, but many of them are getting what they deserve thanks to the pandemic. I worked for a family-owned restaurant in high school (early 2000s) and they treated the employees like shit. To make matters worse, paychecks would bounce and they would fight any and every workman's comp claim if people were injured on the job. Maybe now entrepreneurs won't bite off more they can chew...and focus on taking care of employees, not exploiting them.

Lazy people suck. Newsflash: work isn't supposed to be fun - it's work. Fun is supposed to be fun.

A great reset is needed. Bring hotel workers salaries up to $30 an hour. Tipping (a vile thing) will be unnecessary. This will cause the price of hotel rooms to rocket. Which will reduce bookings and shrink the sector. GOOD. Tourism is a curse, and most people travel far too much unnecessarily. Same with products. People will buy less STUFF because it's more expensive. It will be better for the planet, better for people.

It’s really a form of general strike

Hotels are all dumps these days, even the branded ones with good reputations. It’s all a matter of how much ripping off customers can take.

Not a single Fortune 500 company lost a nickle in a over decade. Not a single one. Profits are always up. And now they went up by 40% more during the pandemic.

[quote]Hotels are all dumps these days, even the branded ones with good reputations. It’s all a matter of how much ripping off customers can take.

It's not true that all hotels are dumps these days. I would agree, however, that it takes some extra care in scouting a hotel that will meet your expectations. As for ripping off customers, in forty-some years of travel, I can't recall a single good hotel where I left thinking "you know, they really are not charging half enough for this" or even "that was a very fairly priced hotel!" Good hotels have required good money for as long as I can remember, but if anything hotels 10 or 15 years ago were worse with egregious charges for every little service: spending hundreds for a five-star hotel and the forty-something for breakfast and then being asked to pay 30 a day for if you want internet access and charged automatically for a sports center you didn't use, for example. People expect better of hotels, now, or at least something less transparently grifting.

Even 4 season has gone to pot.

R116 nailed it 😎

r108 this is so true. Offices are a nest of vipers full of petty, awful people, many of which have personality disorders. People would rather preserve their sanity and quality of life than work in such an environment.

r108, BINGO! No lies told. This deserves more discussion.

[quote] too much stress not commensurate with the remuneration.

That may be true but does the job pay enough?

R122, is it? I don't know what you are talking about. I am having a swell time

R131, what part of "not commensurate" did you not understand?

R126, I think what he/she meant was that the 'branding bs' is out of control. Whenever companies sell a product or a service they coast on their 'brand' instead of coasting on the quality of the good or service. And it's happening not only in the hospitality industry but in everything. When you buy something with a 'big name' you can't expect it to be of decent enough quality anymore.

I don't think this is happening a lot in white-collar corporate job settings. And if the replacements are taking longer, it may be because HRs are having to work with the different departments' hiring managers requesting the postings on more detailed language and protocols for interviewing, background-checking, hiring, and determining some reinvented job responsibilities or methods (e.g., partly, mostly or all remote, etc.) during this new Covid-19 era.

R109 Correct!!!! Repeat this ad nauseum, because the thick clods here either don’t get it or have cheap Mexican maids and pool boys.

I've been trying to figure out how, after extended benefits have ended, the shortage of workers haven't dropped. I mean, most people really have to work. Obviously, it's multi factored -- all within the context of no one actually wanting to back to the shit jobs in food service and retail. So, among other things.

1. A subset of workers still have savings, even if meager, from extended benefits and are biding their time because if you're working these shit jobs, why not wait to go back until absolutely necessary. This will factor will continue to decrease as we get further and further away from the end of extended benefits.

2. A subset of people leaving for slightly less shitty jobs. Is a call center a great job? No. But many restaurant and hotel workers seem to think it's better than their previous job. The worst of worst jobs will continue to suffer. Covid and the societal climate generally have made already often bad restaurant and other service jobs worse -- having to deal with the public all day in this day and age. I get it.

3. A subset of people for whom their shitty job was secondary income for themselves (i.e., not their main job) or their multiple-income households. They've decided to scale back. They'll belt tighten, they'll shift their vision of their "American Dream." Basically, while they might not have as much income, they don't need the second jobs.

4. A subset of people who live with parents or other relatives who aren't as pressed about rushing back to work, especially to shitty jobs. Not ideal, but when is life ever ideal. On the flip side - people with relatives living with them. Maybe they used to have a second job, but now someone else in the household can contribute, even if just a little bit - enough for the homeowner or lessee to quit the second job.

5. The gig economy - people who are living paycheck to paycheck via multiple gigs are always looking for better gigs. So, even if shit jobs can find people, there's still going to be a ton of turnover. This has happened at a pub I regularly go to - they're now only open until 10 rather than 1 am because they're so short staffed. I know the bartender well and he says it's not that they can't hire anyone; it's that they can't keep them. They're always looking for something better - especially the kitchen staff, according to him.

The problem is that our society has ceased being upwardly mobile. So the choice is either endlessly toil away at a soul crushing job knowing you will never be anything else, or accept an existence of less. I can see why it’s appealing.

r137, Why is something better? Shitty hours, shitty salary, shitty benefits. My family owns a restaurant in an area where MANY employers are complaining about staffing. Around 20 out of 30 of our staff has been with us more than 4 years. Most preferred to work instead of stay home and collect except parents of small children. THIS is a real issue that America won't face. If children were give the reverence shown for fetuses we'd have no problem.

Oh deer,

have been with us

TL,DR. It’s about time the proverbial shit hit the fan. The average worker will always be threatened by someone willing to work for less. And then you have some name-branding entrepreneurs saying a robot will soon replace you — and it is THAT that I call BULLSHIT! No robot could ever fully replace a living, breathing, readily re-programmable, self-directing, intuitive multitasking person!!!!

Folks this will never happen. I’ve witnessed too many of these wet dreams turn out to be just that. The fact of the matter is, yes you can buy robots to do heavy-lifting, redundant or sniff out bombs or dangerous stuff, but you will never forego human workers! The utter irony is that you’d have to hire a real, living person to fill-in when that shit thing breaks down! End result: laughs all around and business closed.

R141 I dunno; the self service ordering kiosks at McDonald's, for example, and the self checkouts at supermarkets seem to be pretty efficient.

R141, at the very least robots won't spit or put feces on the food. or walk on it and put it all over a toilet seat, the way this Subway employee did, and proudly share the photos with the world.

Those self check out/no human cashiers stores is ripe for stealing! I do so at every Walmart I possibly can since they can well afford workers. This will take some amount of time in order to make an accurate assessment. I’ve gotten away with Walmart as I don’t trigger any red flags( aka racist/bigoted/biased/judgmental reactions). On top of that, they pay their workers a pittance, so why would they even care? They get path by the hour. Just stupid on too many levels.

But even on its surface, it’s got to be a dumb idea. (Yes…and please bring your own personal bags to stuff shit in). Behaviors like this was the go-to means for shoplifting in the first place.

Good for them. Only if people quit will the employers know their employees are not taken for granted.

R144, some Costco stores in my area have a few self-checkouts now. They don't seem to require fewer employees, since there are always several hanging around these machines to help customers (and watch for shop lifting, of course). But it does mean that I don't have to wait in line behind several people with fully laden carts when I'm just buying a few items.

If no one's pointed it out yet, tying good affordable health care to employment kept a lot of people working at jobs they hated.

Yet another reason we need universal health care.

R144 here. I would not endeavor this at a Costco. However, you stated there were a lot of employees watching. So that is a big disincentive already. I’m simply stating that human behavior will show its worse when pushed too far. There is/was evidence that desperate and hungry people will steal food to survive if they have to.

R147 definitely. When did it happen? At what point did it start being tied to employment?

It seems it started in the years after WW2 when there was something of a labor shortage and employers used the offer of free health insurance as a perk to attract workers and then unions started offering it as well and it became standard for most white collar jobs too.

I am not sure when it went from being a perk the employer paid 100% versus now where many employers subsidize it some but employees still need to cough up a decent percentage.

Thanks R150, your post was enlightening

Tying health care to employers was just the stupidest fucking thing ever. It makes NO sense, when you think about it.

Right, R152. In prosperous times for older workers they could knock off the work game early and open slots for people with less experience ir seniority to make their way up. But the current system encourages workers to keep their noses down as if they were doing important work and to not make it too easy for anyone to step into their desk chair - until the day that they are eligible for Medicare because unless they are hauling in money hand over fist, the cost of insuring themselves if they retire early is prohibitive.

R122 - how embarassing for you that you commenet using antiquated religion-based work ethic propaganda. The sort of statement used to shame/frighten people into being slaves at shit jobs for the wealthy predator class, This also connectes to the Prosperity Gospel line of thinking. "If you deserve a good job/money, you'll get one because you've earned it. If you don't, it's because you're not trying hard enough." Catch up, darlin. tTat stale mindset is not going to fly in today's (or future) societies.

R152 - The reason the US doesn't have Universal healthcare or free/affordable college/job training is because the military would lose their enticement leverage for enlistment. Who would join the military if all citizens in the US had access to affordable healthcare, college and job training schools? Those are the main reasons there are so many recruitment offices in rural and poverty stricken areas of the country. Want free school? Lifetime health coverage? Job training? Well then, Uncle Sam would like to hear from YOU!

The political theater of tying healthcare coverage to employment was in fact an underhanded move by the government, especially because employees are still getting insurance payments deducted out of their paychecks for plans that have outrageous prices for medical treatments through deductibles that have to be met. School loans too are a huge scam, keeping many hundreds of thousands of people on the debt hook for decades.

The government (regardless of the party in power) and the military complex are not now and have never been an ally.

We don't have universal health care in the US because we're afraid that one single person we don't like will get it.

R20: Indeed - there was a company in the Seattle region. Few years ago they decided to level the pay at $70,000 for everyone.Not only did productivity rise but they noticed one other thing, a little baby boom in their office. Once people were financially secure they had more kids. Of course the economists and experts cried foul on doing this but company profit rose when they did that too.

It's funny I have an opportunity to develop and app and the idea guy has said we go 50/50 on profits. This could net me a few hundred million. So I might start my own company and see where it goes if I treat people the right way.

We are going to Palm Springs again this winter and need a new house sitter so we joined a house sitting website. It is really interesting to learn about people who are living a vagabond lifestyle. Some sold their homes, some VRBO their homes out and house sit for free for a place to live.

We had to pause our ad after just a few hours because we had more than enough applicants to choose from. We are going with a retired medical doctor and her engineer boyfriend. She retired early due to an injury and they've been vagabonding around the world for five years.

I think it is fantastic.

That's interesting, R158. I used to bemoan the difficulty in finding professional house sitters when I had a big fairly big house in the country and could have used them.

Years ago I knew a professional gay house sitter, well educated, the descendant of a famous artist, and well connected to a network of older rich gay men who traveled a lot or had multiple houses. He was not well off himself but owned a modest home that he'd had for ages, and had some connection to seemingly every artsy older gay man up and down the East Coast that he was much in demand and always staying a couple months here or a few weeks there while the owners were away. He would move in, look after the property and report to the owners in chatty notes, taking day trips to explore the area, often repeating his stays at the same properties. He had some London connections from the same group and did the same there on rarer occasion. But he was too popular and always booked up well in advance and for better set-ups than my digs. He loved the life of having a home of his own but traveling all about and making a new place his home for a period of time, exploring, then onto the next.

China has been doing the same thing. It is called 躺平. The whole world is giving a fuck you to capitalism.

R152 I wonder how many more people would leave the labor force if it weren’t the case. I know quite a few people who don’t really need to work but are hanging on until they’re 65 and can get Medicare.

... and the Great Recession is approaching.

Are you kidding me? Are we talking about military enlistment? Well, I got one idea fer ya:. It simply is another form of welfare! Free house, free medical, free education, discounts at NEX. If these real free-stuff were ever counted, then those white people living in southern states signing up for military are the biggest free-loaders! It’s just another form of free welfare.

That ain’t living. Get your money for nothing and chicks for free…

There, I said it.

R144 I wonder how much people steal because of those. You're right, it's too easy.

R163 Before you actually had to make rank to stay in, people would basically do nothing and retire after 20 years with all those benefits. I know, my stepdad was one. He retired from the Air Force as an E-3. You start as an E-1 and you're an E-2 when you finish basic training, so he moved up one rank in 20 years.

He, of course, voted Republican and ranted about "welfare queens." Oh, and hated "the gays."

My sister and I celebrated the day he died.

R163, really? I think our military is bloated and needs to be drastically downsized, but you do know soldiers work for a pretty low wage considering their job descriptions. And they do work—they’re not just sitting around on their yachts. I think that’s a really poor example of welfare. There’s plenty of corporate and military industrial competence “welfare” that’s far more damaging to out country.

Military life/welfare is what sustains White Supremacists and anti-abortion, misogynistic freaks. Without military free-money and $billion defense contracts, they’d all be Forrest Gumps!!! They still believe blacks were/are better off as their slaves and women should be barefoot and in the kitchen and pregnant.

R166. You have not even factored in what permanent damage that the likes of Mitch McConnell and Miss Lindz have wreaked upon us, nor the Repuke Party in general, nor the Repuke-stacked Supreme Court, nor the demolishment on democracy itself.

P.s. that POS father of 19 baby Terrorists is running for public office!

Please fuck yourself gently with a chainsaw and crawl back into your Apologist cave!

R168, I probably agree with you politically but I fear for the English language in your hands. Do you attend demolishment derbies in your spare time?

Whites currently make up the majority of the US workforce. Currently, most corporate workplaces have programs to tell white employees that they are the problem with the world, they are inherently racist, they must examine their privilege, etc. The goal of these is presumably to get whites out of the workforce so there is more room for POC. I think it's working, but this is a transitional period. Things may look different in a year or two when the vacancies are filled by minorities.

[quote] Do you attend demolishment derbies in your spare time?

Oh, dear.

I doubt that is even .1 percent of what is going on r170.

Where are these people getting money to be unemployed? Asking for a ME.

[quote]I doubt that is even .1 percent of what is going on [R170].

Yes R170, the racial gap in employment is more than a case of stubborn old white people clinging forever to their jobs and not letting minorities advance — or as you suggest, not joining up with The Great Resignation in a big white walk-out. I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Whose goal are you referring to, this goal "presumably to get whites out of the workforce so there is more room for POC"? Who benefits from this pulling of puppet strings? You really think that in a year or two the majority of workforce vacancies will be filled by non-whites? 78% of the workforce just shuffles off to retirement or unemployment because of some HR awareness training?

These data are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics for 2018:

[quote]By race, Whites made up the majority of the labor force (78 percent). Blacks and Asians constituted an additional 13 percent and 6 percent, respectively. American Indians and Alaska Natives made up 1 percent of the labor force, while Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders accounted for less than 1 percent. People of Two or More Races made up 2 percent of the labor force.

People are sick of the shitty deal. Reaganites can rejoice that this shit lasted about 40 years, but now it's over. Time for something else. Maybe ... a New Deal!

Forcing people to have a job to get insurance is a form of slavery. Corporations (the real government) were against the affordable care act for just that reason. People are tired of the grind, lies, and the binds. Work at a soul draining job - which would be bearable if you didn’t have to deal with coworkers! - until you’re 65 and you get what maybe 10 years of retirement before you’re body gives out? No thanks.

people are quitting their job to look for jobs. Most are looking across the states, just not locally. Family members and friends are doing this together.

R174, telling people that they are inherently problematic and wrong because of the color of their skin isn't getting people out of the workforce in itself. It's just one more thing that lets workers know that they are not valued. Their contribution is worthless. They are tolerated, just tolerated, and should be grateful to have a job at all. They are replaceable cogs. Add it to other factors like expecting more for less, insanely expensive health insurance, crappy working hours, low, flat wages, no prospects for mobility, etc.

The way people make decisions in real life isn't like the movies. It's rare that one thing happens and someone jumps up onto a soapbox and declares that they are resigning from the workforce.

It's a steady drip-drip-drip of indignities, exploitation, abuse, hopelessness, that eventually erodes the will to work. Eventually people just can't be bothered any more.

I'm horrified by the low wage service employees being abused & attacked, also delivery folks. The USA sucks on so many levels. Why are we so uncivilized? Pandemic or not.

People are shocked when they learn their fast food wages won't fund an Instagram lifestyle.

Selfish, R179 -- the trendy word for it is "entitled". Always thinking of themselves first, which is what wild animals do in order to survive. Humans consider that they're better than the other animals but they behave the same way even though it's not necessary.

[quote] Always thinking of themselves first, which is what wild animals do in order to survive.

I don't agree — I think that's the myth of individualism and Darwinism (i.e. survival of the fittest) spread by the neocons to justify their own dysfunction.

The reality is that society would have ended if not for the compulsion of selflessness, generosity and the reliance on community, groups, and people coming together. And contrary to popular opinion, this only reflects the animal kingdom

The great ghosting is happening as well. I apply to jobs on indeed all the time and receive mostly nothing. I have a job but I don't know how much more of it I can take.

Great article

That was great R184 ! I totally get it too. Why not be poor making baskets as opposed to standing behind a counter being treated like a slave and still be just as poor ? I feel for these kids today,as popular as it is to bitch about them. The majority dont have parents who pays their rent,or buys them cars . I worked in a fucking c-store for $5.10 an hour and I had an apt,a car and insurance thru work. You cant even do that on $20 an hour now. How does anyone expect these kids to make a life ?

[quote] I worked in a fucking c-store for $5.10 an hour and I had an apt,a car and insurance thru work. You cant even do that on $20 an hour now. How does anyone expect these kids to make a life ?

It's refreshing to see a person your age knowing what's up with modern life. So many of the DL Boomers on here are like "I had my own apartment and put myself through college in the 70s by working retail, what the hell is wrong with these kids today that they can't do it too? They're just lazy!" They just don't get it AT ALL.

The Under-40s must be concentrating on their side hu$tles: escorting.

^ PUNK

Told ya, people who work their asses off and barely make ends meet are sick of getting exploited for peanuts. If you're going to be without either way, then people rather keep their self dignity and be poor than work like a mule and still be poor.

The dangling spectres of "homelessness" and "not having enough for retirement" are being seeing for what they are: bullshit.

And it's all the top 0.1%'ers fault. Nobody needs to have more than 10 billion dollars. You can't spend that money in a thousand lifetimes.

There's something almost spiritual about people saying that the know how limited their time on earth is and they don't want to spend it as a slave in the richest country in the world.

We could run our planet just fine without any money at all. There wouldn't be any Bill Gates or Bezos, but there also wouldn't be people who are homeless or without food.

Isn't it bawled out, not balled out?

There's no cloud without a silver lining.

I know of a 16 year old who got his first job with no experience and is making $15 an hour right off the bat. Works at a pizza joint. And he gets more than 20 hours a week. Does not know what to do with all that money.

Bill gates and jeff bezos would still exist. They would still be superwealthy. Taxes on the wealthy effect all of them, so it would just rescale. It has to be done. Also, wealth royality nations should have to pay a global tax. to UN Programs. They will still be alive, still be wealty, but NOT fucking the planet up.

R192, what you are saying is not extraordinary. Teenagers his age should be paid that kind of money. Are you telling me there are adults from the US, in this day and age, that get less than that?

R194

Well I just heard that Amazon workers only get $15 an hour. Minimum wage is officially $7.25

R194 in NYC a lot of low income workers make 15 dollar an hour and they aren't teenagers. They are adults with bills to pay. It is shitty out there since food prices are going up but wages are stagnant.

R11 Yeah. I know a family that owned a small motel, maybe 75 rooms that paid like that. They had a new home in a posh suburb that they furinished and charged to the hotel, a winter home in Florida, ditto, that they flew to whenever they wanted by charging to the hotel. Children got through college and grad school with no student loans or part time jobs. I can offhand name a half dozen family businesses like that. One paid out $1,000 a week to family members as salary even though they didn’t work there or even live in the same state, meanwhile paying crap to their employees. On and on. It’s not just the big corporations that exploit minimum wage workers.

[quote]ThErEs A lAbOr ShOrTaGe

The trend is self-limiting. People have bills.

I'm 52. My first job paid $3.25 per hour which was minimum wage in the 80's. I had to work two jobs while going to community college and renting a single room. I graduated college and now make 90 grand per year and you know what? I STILL can't afford a home. I spent 18 years paying back all the student loans I owed instead of traveling or buying fancy clothes or phones.

The "American Dream" is just that, a dream. It doesn't exist for the majority of Americans anymore. I spent 20 years of my life making under 60 grand until 6 years ago when I found a new job and negotiated more for myself. But as my wages increased, so did the price of everything else including cars, rent and homes. It's always been "just" out of reach for me and most of my friends. A nicer one bedroom apartment here in Los Angeles now rents for 2500 to 3500 depending on where. Even with me making more money now, I stay in my crappy little guest house in a really bad neighborhood because I can actually put some money in savings now. But I will never have enough money to retire...most of my employers never offered a 401k and when I found one who did, I put a lot into it but it's still not going to be enough.

I often take on extra work at home to help build my savings but it's getting harder working 14 hour days and frankly, it's not worth it anymore at my age. I feel like I have wasted my entire life simply trying to survive. Friends of mine got into major debt but they traveled...I've never even left the US. Almost all my friends who own houses are barely keeping afloat and they are unable to travel or take vacations at all so I call bullshit on people who say to own property is the way to wealth. Sure, maybe. But at what cost?

I'm just tired. Really tired. I would love to quit my job and find something part time but I'm alone so the responsibility of my choices falls on only me. No one is going to take care of me and I'm not expecting anyone to. But I do envy the younger generations who have supportive families who let them stay home.

Imagine a world where people didn't have to work so much to just survive. What creative endeavors would be happening? I know I would be able to write, which was always my dream. But instead, I just work.

Move out of LA, and relocate to Arkansas or Detroit r200

You can own a home in those for cheap

I said the same thing R200 and then i moved to Arizona and my mortgage is 470 a month. If you are trying to buy in the most expensive market you are indeed fucked but about 80 per cent of the country remains affordable.

Why would I move to Arizona when my job (film industry) requires me to work in LA? And who wants to live in the shithole that is Arizona? I cannot take heat. And sure, I can own a home for cheap elsewhere, but again, at what cost? To me, moving means leaving my 90,000 per year job and all my friends and family, so to me, moving would mean a set back to my income and my personal life. And owning a home isn't even something I necessarily want to do as it requires up keep and repairs and if I'm not making the same in another state as I am here in CA, I still would not be able to "afford" a house and all it requires. It's all a fucking scam anyway. I would just like to be able to afford to live somewhere where I had my own washer and dryer. That's been my only dream for a long while now. But even that cannot be done in LA without paying out the ass for rent.

Well, if you want to stay in overpriced LA do it but stop being a whinny queen in regards to do being able to buy a house. Are you hoping to win the victim of the year prize?

People shouldn't have to move to survive. What need to happen is companies need to stop been cheap and pay people more for their skill.

And what would houses in Los Angeles cost if suddenly everyone's salaries were doubled?

r204, not being able to buy a house in the state in which I work was a very small piece of what I wrote. It's funny that you glomed onto that part of my post instead of the parts where I said I've worked two jobs just to barely survive throughout my life. You're one of those who thinks owning a house is the key to wealth, right? Owning a house in the state in which one has gainful employment should not be a pipe dream but it is.

R200, And did you have to walk barefoot to school each day in the snow? How you suffered in life! Working two jobs while going to school! I suspect you have even suffered more than Jesus of the cross. What a victim you are and an entitled one at that. Whine, whine, whine....

Imagine all the people Sharing all the world

"I can't seem to maintain friendships as well. My biggest issue was that I have lived all over the world and moved often. It was hard to keep up with friends all the way across the globe. The truth is I don't seem to need a lot of other people."

Gee r208 I wonder why you have no friends.

"People shouldn't have to move to survive."

They've been doing it for all of human history.

R203, move to Atlanta. There are a lot of industry jobs there for a fraction of the cost of living in LA.

[quote] They've been doing it for all of human history.

R211 tooks the words right off my keyboard. In fact, ability to relocate is the reason humans have survived. It's certainly how many gay people have survived.

R211. You are making excuses for greedy CEOs that exploit their workers. You are blaming the employee for not improving their lives by not moving to some other place. You sound very republican. The one percent that owns corporations should continue exploiting their workers to the extent they give up everything and move elsewhere. That is your logic.

R214, none of that is true. I'm pointing out what is true - people move to improve their life, to get ahead, for a variety of reasons.

r215 feels like he deserves a lot of pity that he only makes 90K a year. i save my pity for the truly poor not whiny entitled queens who feel like they deserve to be neighbors with Cher.

214 I mean

Not wanting pity. I only posted to back up what the author of the Bored Panda article is saying. You can work for years and not have much to show for it. Yes, I make 90,000, now for for a good portion of my life, I was well below that. I'm not entitled to anything but hey it would be nice to have a washer and dryer that I didn't have to share with strangers.

It sounds like a pity party to me.

[quote]I'm 52. My first job paid $3.25 per hour which was minimum wage in the 80's. I had to work two jobs while going to community college and renting a single room. I graduated college and now make 90 grand per year and you know what? I STILL can't afford a home. I spent 18 years paying back all the student loans I owed instead of traveling or buying fancy clothes or phones.

[quote]Why would I move to Arizona when my job (film industry) requires me to work in LA? And who wants to live in the shithole that is Arizona? I cannot take heat. And sure, I can own a home for cheap elsewhere, but again, at what cost? To me, moving means leaving my 90,000 per year job and all my friends and family, so to me, moving would mean a set back to my income and my personal life. And owning a home isn't even something I necessarily want to do...and if I'm not making the same in another state as I am here in CA, I still would not be able to "afford" a house and all it requires. It's all a fucking scam anyway. I would just like to be able to afford to live somewhere where I had my own washer and dryer. That's been my only dream for a long while now. But even that cannot be done in LA without paying out the ass for rent.

At what cost to you, R200 / R203, is your $90,000 job? If you love your job and love the friends and family who who are nearby, that counts enormously. You work in a specialized industry where relocation has just so many possibilities, none of them probably as good as where you are now. If you would like more but are you're happy with what you've got, then you're better off than most people. But if you forever feel the press of "I should have better than this," then living in a place that's not a "shithole," that's the center still of the entertainment world...is it really enough to carry on pretending everything is great because L.A. is rich and famous and fashionable, even if you'll never own a house, where your choices will always be limited, where treading water on $90K is a full-time job in itself?

There is a price. Not having a washer and dryer in your rented apartment? That's not dreaming big, for most Americans that's not remotely seen as a luxury; it's standard issue in a lot of cheap apartments, even Section 8 apartments. In the top 10 most populous countries in Europe, the prevalence of washing machines in housing ranges from France at 90% to Italy at 97%. A washer and dryer is not a fucking luxury...unless you can't afford to have a place where it's standard issue.

The Great Resignation is interesting becomes it opens a wedge into a lot of people's work and how they feel about and where and how they live as a result. Before Covid, remote working had been a huge change for some people and for them people it's hard to contemplate ever going back to commutes and coffee room gossip and the thumb of office politics bearing down. Other people realize that they are working harder than they would make, making what seems a good salary from a distance, but all the things they do to live near work separates them from the things that make them happy, whether geographically or by cost of living factors. A lot of jobs are not portable at all, of course, TGR is something that seems to apply most to the above average and below average jobs, the first seeking more options for being happy in their life and work, the second for wanting a somewhat better salary, better hours, or a less shitty boss.

Your own dilemma with home ownership and the washer and dryer, and reflection on The American Dream is a reckoning faced by a lot of people who have some measure of success but wonder now if they are using the right yardstick.

R217 and r216 how very right-wing of you guys. It is interesting you guys are using the poster that stated he makes 90 thousand a year as a way to argue against those that make way less.

Dryers use a lot of electricity and are unnecessary - hang up your clothes. A washing machine can easily be installed, surely? I live in a tiny flat and I have one.

When I lived in SE Asia years back I would hand wash my clothes in a bucket in the bathroom then put them outside to dry. That is a solution for someone who thinks going to a laundromat is a tragedy.

I'm exhausted too [R200]. 60 years old, worked my entire life, and retirement will still be tight. Never OWNED anything, other than a used car. I do have good health, although I wish I opened a savings account for additional medical expenses as one gets older.

[quoteI'm just tired. Really tired. I would love to quit my job

Your story is an all too common one, R200. Particularly amongst those who haven't the support of parents, siblings, or a partner. It's especially common amongst single women. I wish there was someone to sit you down and map out your finances for you and create a strategy, but most financial planners only want to sell additional products which you don't need. However: given you're 52, look at this way: pretend you have 10 years to build a comfy future for yourself. It's hard, but it's still achievable. You should be throwing everything you've got in your own investment fund. Except: also set aside another fund for at least one or two overseas holidays within that period. I also suspect that somewhere in your head you don't believe you deserve better. You need to turn that thinking around. For the same or a little more in what you're paying in rent you could be paying off a small apartment. That would give you another means of building wealth.

I think I'm part of the great resignation.

I liked my job and it paid a bit above average, but I got sick of the shift work and couldn't cut back due to my defined benefit pension being based on my final two years wages. Covid got me thinking, you know, life is short, why work myself to an early grave etc. So I retired before 60 and unlocked the pension handcuffs.I'll probably go back in a few months and pick up some casual shifts to supplement the pension, but at the times and hours that suit me. I've already had offers without even looking. I think Covid just broke my fear of the unknown, made me realise my world was not as safe and predictable as I believed so why not embrace the randomness.

[quote] In fact, ability to relocate is the reason humans have survived. It's certainly how many gay people have survived.

And Jews, R213.

r244, that's all I was saying. It's hard when you look around and realize your entire life was struggling to get where you are now and even now, while making a better income, it's almost too late to make that big of a difference. I wish I had bought a house in the early 90's instead of opting to go to college but it seemed like the only choice I had when I was making $12 per hour and my future seemed bleak if I didn't get a degree. And yes, there was no support from parents at all. I was 18 when I moved out with nothing but a few items of clothing, a twin bed, and a 13 inch tv.

#228. What shitty parents you had. What's the point of breeding if you're not going to give everything you can to help them get a leg up.

It's selfish.

Yes, r229. They kicked their 4 kids out one by one until I was the only one left. And they thought people who went to college thought they were better than everyone else who didn't so they didn't save a dime for any of their kids to go. They started to charge me rent the minute I hit 18 and so I found a room to rent and got the fuck out. My step dad was a raging alcoholic anyway so staying there was not an option. My parents have never given me a dime financially. They once offered to help me with a tax bill that came due and said they would charge me interest to repay them. I didn't take their offer, just paid it myself.

#230 That's appalling to hear!!! I'm so sorry . Have you ever asked them why did they have children (you and your siblings) if they were going to be such assholes to them?

I would have loved to make 90K a month when I was working. In fact I would have loved to have made 45K. Some people just don't know how to appreciate things.

R215, I live in a house in a relatively cheap city and I plan to move somewhere else, knowing I’ll never live in such a nice house again. It’s sad to me. But I’m getting older, my neighborhood is going bad really fast. In a couple of years at most, I’m expecting Mad Max to be the new normal outside my gated community. Maybe less. Meanwhile I’m being endlessly bullied by the HOA for trivial bullshit they make up. Other than harassment, they don’t do anything.

I’m looking for a better city, this one has a really mean, cliquish vibe, but where? Everywhere I’ve ever lived in my life is unaffordable now. I don’t want to move to Redneckistan so I can keep a roof over my head. If moving meant there was some place with a better vibe that was affordable, I’d be gone already. But everywhere cheap is either in a fire zone or Redneck Trumpster, USA, so what’s left? The more research I do, the more despairing I get. I don’t want to live in a Trump filled hellhole.

So what’s the benefit of moving if you have to move into hell?

R233, Find yourself a nice college town even if it is in East Jesusville. College towns are an oasis in a sea of red.

R233, move abroad. Life is still cheaper in Europe

r232 no one said they were making 90k per month. Jesus.

So many posters believe having a mortgage is the ultimate goal of life. Tragic.

I wish i was brave enough to quit my job

R237, it's not having a mortgage per se, it's just feeling safe. As human beings we are not in control, anything can happen at any time.

R234, I did look in some college towns in the Midwest and East. What I found was really polluted, bad water, from Republicans dumping factory waste into it for decades, if not centuries, and one flood zone after another. Plus deliberately moving into an area where nobody will wear a mask or believes Covid exists is frightening. The hospitals in all these areas are full of Covid deniers, God help you if you get a broken leg or something. Even the nurses are Covid deniers.

It’s just the meanness and selfishness of these areas that scares me. I’m just exhausted and depressed from looking. I’m afraid if we get another Republican President or Governor, then there you are living in a red area with a red Governor or red President, and they’re just allowed to run their big red steamroller over anybody, or any idea, to the left of Hitler. With nothing to slow them down or stop them at all.

r240. Take a look at New Mexico. A blue state that is chip as chips mostly.

[quote]So many posters believe having a mortgage is the ultimate goal of life. Tragic

It's not the mortgage that's the prize, r237. It's paying a mortgage for enough years that you gain some equity, and appreciation. Outside of retirement investments, I never had a salary large enough to accrue large savings, but buying houses I could afford with a substantial down payment has meant that I've eventually been able to buy a home with all cash and have enough cash to buy another if I wanted.

I would never have accumulated that kind of money renting; I would only have lost significant amounts of money each year and made nothing in the.process.

Money aside, the bigger pleasure for me is having a house I like and being able to make it what I want, and to trade up when I like, able to afford that by having done it before .

R231 Kindly stop putting # in front of reply so and so. Use a capital R in front of the number so it will be linked.

And so it begins…

[quote] Staff at one of the world’s biggest investment companies have to get special approval to hire a white man, rather than a woman or an ethnic-minority candidate.

R244, rubbish!

Great, I'll sue whatever company is in R244's article and resign too!

I’m not a big fan of contemporary country music, but that Johnny Paycheck has really captured the zeitgeist of the ‘20s with his ‘Take This Job & Shove It” that seems to be on the radio so much these days.

[quote]"Half the companies in the United States have a filter to exclude applicants who have not been employed in the last six months or if there’s a gap in their work history of more than six months."

Link to article in tweet

[quote]"Half the companies in the United States have a filter to exclude applicants who have not been employed in the last six months or if there’s a gap in their work history of more than six months."

That's when you start LYING on your resume. Make up some consulting bullshit and have a friend cover for you as a reference.

Yep, R249. It's unfortunate, but if need be, just make shit up. I never got the employment gap issue. You'd think people who were out of work would be better candidates from the eyes of a company - more desperate; willing to work for less.

THE AMERICAN DREAM WAS A BIG, FAT FUCKING LIE FROM DAY1!! And the fat and stupid Americans bought it hook line and sinker. The ruse was to get these dumb racist pigs to believe that if they follow the rules (go to college, abstain from procreation) they would be rewarded. HA HA But guess what: now you are in debt up to your eyeballs with college loans while the other slackers are popping out kids like there’s no tomorrow

So much for rules….

Huh, R251? I don't understand your interpretation of American Dream. Who are the "other slackers...popping out kids like there's no tomorrow"? The birth rate fell this year by 4% to its lowest level ever (even before Covid, the fertility rate was 1.7 (at a minimum 2.1 is needed to sustain a population at its current numbers.)

The American Dream was packaged under the idea of advancement: to move off the farm, to abandon backbreaking labor for factory and white collar jobs that would pay for a new, modest house, the college education of children, of a steady upward diagonal line of improvement. It worked for a while for many and then it didn't.

People wanted bigger houses on bigger lots with more bathrooms and everyone had to "gut reno" for 60K the kitchen that came with the house they just bought because they didn't like the color of the cupboard door hardware. To get the size house they wanted, cheaply, they had to move to suburbs and exurbs. The American psyche grew more suspcious and people kept their kids indoors, they got in their big SUVs (one or two cars for every adult) to drive for groceries, to buy 100 lb bags of dog food at Petsmart, to giant flat screen TVs for every room because they are so cheap, and bags of cheap shoes (because they love shoes!) and to buy bags of stupid shit at TJ Max and Bed, Bath, and Beyond then dump the bags unopened in a spare bedroom, forever. If they are lucky they buy and sell real estate and the right times and make some money and buy and even bigger house and bigger SUVs (because they feel safe.) If their mother or father dies, they're shit out of luck because they don't have any friends, just ther fake friends from the office; their siblings they never liked anyway and now they belong to the worng political party.

They tell everyone they are to busy to take a breath, they are too important at their jobs —the place would fall apart in a week without them, they tell you, that's what they only use a few days sick leave a year and just work through their vacation or buy more bags of shit to dump into the spare bedrooms. Even the successful ones who won the lottery of timing on house buying and selling lose because in the end they can't downsize and take a retirement. There's no place that meets their standards that doesn't cost more than where they live now. They can't retire early because of the gap in insurance coverage. They're told they each need $4M in the bank to retire and so they work away until 67 and aim for 70 or 72 (to make an extra $250 a month on Social Security, which won't cover ther ise in property tax. That's the American Dream, not some plot against dumb racist pigs or some sheme to limit procreation and birth rates.

American Dream, Lisa, or American SCHEME?

The “other slackers” are typically undocumented migrant workers who pick pesticide-ridden fruit for idealists like you r252. They need help because they are illegal/undocumented and can’t demand higher pay! They live in the shadows and at the mercy of their mercenary overlords. They live in section 8 housing and receive EBT/SNAP to pay for food. They and their children qualify for mediCal.

How did you get to be so stupid and stay alive in these times?

Well maybe there wouldn't be as much of a shortage if Head Hunters and HR Recruiters didn't throw all the resumes from people over 50 into the trash. That's been the new "your dead to me" age even though retirement is another 15 to 20 years away.

They have done blind studies with duplicate resumes to hundreds of job ads where they only thing different were the dates that indicated age such as graduation date. Out of all the call backs, only 10% were the time did they respond to the ones that look like they were over 50 on paper. And most recruiters are younger people so you cant say its a Boomer or Gen-X thing.

[bold]A record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs in September as labor market tumult continued[/bold]

A record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs in September as Americans continued to take advantage of ample job openings to look for alternatives to their current workplace, a sign of how imbalances in the labor market continue to complicate the economic recovery 20 months into the pandemic.

September’s “quit” numbers constituted 3 percent of the workforce, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That number is up from the previous record set in August, when 4.3 million people quit their jobs — about 2.9 percent of the workforce.

. . .

In September, when the delta variant of the coronavirus reached its most recent peak, child care and schooling pressures forced many employees to rethink their daily routine. Many other workers, meanwhile, were lured to other jobs because of better pay and benefits as employers became desperate to fill openings. Safety issues remain a pressing concern for workers who work in industries that require a high volume of face to face interactions. And retirements have also picked up pace, as many older Americans have decided to resign.

more at link

I don't understand the not hiring anyone over 50 thing. Older workers are more reliable and stable in my experience.

if everyone is hiring and everyone is relocating (quitting) to find better jobs, than the shit jobs are going to be hard to fill, until there are no more better jobs to be had.

This is what is happening. It not a problem. If you are a shit job, you have to look at yourself in a mirror and rethink you game plan.

R258. I told someone the other day that any company that pays its workers the base pay under 18 an hour will keep experiencing high turnover rate and in the future those positions will be had to fill. Most people are tired of been over worked and underpaid.

January for me. I'm retiring so the turn of the year brings December off and an extra six weeks of leave and a cluster of bonuses that will be issued at the start of the year, else I would have left a few months ago.

I've worked from home for ages but Covid brought work into too central a part of my life just as work itself became increasingly irritating with endless layers of politics and procedures that were never a problem before. In a year I went from 1-hour a week on meetings and administrative tasks to the expectation that I would spend 2-hours per day at these, 10-hours per week at these, documenting and justifying and quantifying my work where before it was always a case of having one or two or five projects to be delivered within a year at certain points. Enough with the weekly progress meetings with the Agile Sherpas (renamed Agile Leaders so as not to offend sherpas everywhere.) It's the same fucking report as last week and the same fucking report as the week to come: I budgeted the time and it will be delivered on or in advance of schedule, like always.

"But Millennials are teenagers!" -- Most of DL

R261. How are they having the upper hand. What they meant is privileged upper class older millennials. The average person in their late thirties are probably stuck in a cubicle five days a week or working two jobs.

The judgement some people have are older workers are harder to train and are less comfortable with learning the needed computer systems for the job r255. I'd recommend older workers make sure they come across as competent with technology during the interview process.

Sounds like nobody over 50 actually gets an interview r263, so I'm not sure how practical that advice is. But then again, I don't think anyone has real solutions for an economy that is too top heavy, largely braindead in terms of hiring and management generally, and basically stuck in old ways of thinking that have pretty much nothing to do with the actual world today. Ironic for such a youth-oriented workforce, but there it is.

And of course, I think we just can't deal with the underlying fact that most jobs aren't particularly worth doing, but admitting that would be too painful to deal with. There should probably be a massive move toward working less, not more, but that goes against every instinct of this economy as it has developed for so very long.

R242 Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[quote]I wonder if the fact that we are in the midst of the Great Boomer Retirement Age is part of this as well.

Late to this party but that would be me. I'm retiring on December 31, 2021. Cannot wait.

I wonder how many of these “resignations” are a result of Covid deaths or disabilities, or people retiring early that wouldn’t have otherwise because they don’t want to do customer facing work at 60 if they don’t have to. Then there’s all the women who probably quit because of daycare or school closures, when their husbands made enough money to support the family if they really cut back. A lot of these workers may never come back, or not until their kids are old enough to be in school at least. .

How many people have to die before it affects the labor market? Half a million? A million? A lot of the dead were retirement age, so what’s going on? Maybe they were older but still working in some capacity, maybe retail part time jobs?

I started a job in July, said I would work no more than 20 hours so I could go to school. Management was happy I was attending school, and very happy to comply. However, by September, they were pressuring me to quit so they could work me 40+ hours a week with no insurance, benefits, or breaks (12-hour back-to-back shifts Saturday and Sunday). I didn't even give notice.

Someone in our department just put in her notice. Not to go to a new job, but because she "needs a change". She's only in her 40s, but is married to a guy that has a high salary, so there's no money worries there.

I'm totally depressed.

How are all these people paying their bills now that enhanced unemployment payments have ended? A lot of people coasted along rent and mortgage-free for a year and a half with monthly unemployment checks coming in (and those Biden stimulus checks.) Now all that has ended. I guess they must have enough saved to live on for awhile and figure they can get a better, higher-paying job whenever they decide it’s time to start looking again. People have gotten lazy and spoiled after all those months of freebies.

R270 yes, not wanting to work for shit wages and bad conditions is lazy and spoiled

The Millennials have never adjusted to the workplace. They want everyone to eat vegan and talk about feelings and sit on 'chairs' shaped like giant beachballs and bike to work. They spent 10 years in college in the aughts and were never prepared for boring, mean, fat, ugly co-workers.

So they latched onto Covid as a way to never have to go back to a workplace again. Good luck.

Kale, you’re just bitter. A good massage and high quality oil can help.

As someone who worked with a lot of Millennials as well as Gen Zers, I see no connection between your diatribe and reality. I got great work from them, figured out how to motivate and develop them, and really enjoyed them in the workplace.

I read R261 article. What they are saying is that geriatric millennials and the youngest Gen X (35-45) are the most nimble because of an analogue childhood and digital teen/adults. We can talk to older people who aren't tech savvy while still being to communicate with Gen Z who prefer all digital communication.

As a member of this group, I am just choosing to work less and I want less. I want to be comfortable, but I decided locked away in the pandemic that I don't think I am willing to work hard enough to have a 1.5M starter home in a marginal area or the same price for a basic townhouse. I feel like the false security of life was taken away and my eyes are open now. Anything can truly happen at any time and everything can be taken away overnight. Now I am looking to go from short term projects to short terms projects. I have some time to to figure it out. I've been living like this since March 2020 and so far it has seemed to work out. I don't want kids and I don't have anyone to support so fuck it. I lean and relate more towards Gen X.

I just re-watched Fight Club last night. That is how I feel.

R269 her husband probably uses money as a way to control her. She’s paying for it, in one way or another.

Since it’s open enrollment for benefits at work, I asked my boss how that would change if I decided to move to part time for 2022. He said something about business needs, can’t allow. I countered with advising him there is already precedence for PT in this job. He said he would let me know. I have an appointment to discuss with HR next week. If I’m turned down, hello litigation.

Good luck R276.

Starbucks closes at 6pm on the weekends. Stores with drive-thrus stay open later. I was told they had no staff to work those shifts.

Fast food places are a mess with no staff, closing early and taking forever. McDonalds has signs for hiring at $16 per hour as does Del Taco in California. Where are the fucking teenagers who want to work after school and on weekends?

Who has no job today, jobs are everywhere and no one should be making less than $16 hour, no one outside the service industry should make less than $20

I also think there are some games being played by employers stating they are desperate to hire but really are just going through the motions to get those loans forgiven by the government down the road. Rumor has it they need to show they tried! to get workers for their businesses but just couldn't find anyone.

I think between The Great Recession and COVID and all the sociopolitical upheaval, people realize that being optimistic is for suckers. Why kick your ass and build a huge 401K and then watch it blow away with the next crisis? People are feeling incredibly nihilistic and hopeless.

[quote] People are feeling incredibly nihilistic and hopeless.

I always have hope but I am also feeling very nihilistic. I get it.

Unintended silver lining thanks to Covid . It’s like the woke of the woked. The average American voter wanted hopey/changey but got shitted on again. The average American voter will vote for Donald Duck if it walked and talked like they want to hear it - a blistering list of false promises that would make even Bronies blush in hearing such a yammering string of bullshit!

[quote]I don't understand the not hiring anyone over 50 thing. Older workers are more reliable and stable in my experience.

That's not how they look at it. Older people are perceived as being slower, stuck in their ways, out of touch with new technology, more frequent medical conditions, demanding higher pay and looking for a cash cow before retirement. And that's just what head hunters and HR people think. Take it a step further and the actual employer looking for the biggest bang for his buck knows they cant BS them into working long hours and unpaid overtime for bottom tier pay rates. Older people know the value of their skills and don't put up with the bull shit as much as someone just out of college. They lack the energy to go balls to the wall every day on the job without complaining.

[quote]McDonalds has signs for hiring at $16 per hour as does Del Taco in California. Where are the fucking teenagers who want to work after school and on weekends?

Because McManagers don't hire teenagers, that concept of America died 50 years ago with Leave it to Beaver. The reality is, most of the employees at places like McDonalds are new immigrants from 3rd world countries or illegal immigrants with fake papers. They work their asses off for dirt pay and never, ever complain about shitty job environment or sketching work conditions. They never flak like teenagers are known to do, wont ask for a raise and would never report them for health and safety violations.

[quote]How are all these people paying their bills now that enhanced unemployment payments have ended?

Well, a lot of people are in relationships, so if the other half can afford to pay the rent, even if it's tight that's how it works. A huge percentage of people are re-evaluate their life and so staying home until a new direction is found or starting a new business has become acceptable and understandable situation.

Unlike the old days, all these out of touch mostly Boomer talking heads on media don't get these people are not just going to run out and get a shit job in the mean time. That's what they would do, it's not what the rest of the people would do who are not insane workaholics brainwashed into thinking work is everything.

"out of touch" so will a great depression 2.0 solve everything? Will USA with with 200 million additional guest workers from foreign countries provide for the 200 million other no-work loafers? I loathe work as much as anybody else but there is a need for labor that goes beyond my individual needs. The Mcjobs of the world are as essential to our psycho economy as any other job

Most of those jobs are very low wage and not necessary. We dont really NEED fast food establishments on every corner. They are just convenient if you need fast cheap shitty food on the go. But we don't need them. Maybe it's time for a change, America will not fall without them.

[quote] A huge percentage of people are re-evaluate their life and so staying home until a new direction is found or starting a new business has become acceptable and understandable situation.

After so many businesses shut down due to Covid, I can't understand why anyone would think about opening a business in the near future. Especially ones with poor business models like a $10 cupcake. That will be the first expense people cut when the next recession hits.

[quote] [Older people]...lack the energy to go balls to the wall every day on the job without complaining.

I know, R283, that you were explaining how older job applicants are perceived, to their detriment. I don't see a tendency to complain, though sometimes I see what's perceived as a grumpiness about not getting a simple answer. Some older employees have a directness about them that cuts against a lot of talking without an immediate purpose.

"You say we won't be doing anything on this project until next summer or later? Why, then, don't we just suspend discussion until we're ready to start things?"

"Is the public name of this product or isn't there? The promotional materials are due to be relased next week and everything still has [INSERT PROPER PRODUCT NAME HERE]. All I want is a decisive answer?"

But as for "the energy to go balls to the wall every day on the job without complaining," what the fuck kind of job is this? Most people aren't setting the world on fire with some promitive tribal passion and depth of dedication to a cause. And I would say that there are fucking few jobs that should have the balls to ask for half of that.

I am launching a new business R288 in the new year, and it is in a potentially lucrative high growth industry (medical communications).

I refuse to work in unsafe conditions (I work in the most violent specialty in medicine and have already been beaten unconscious by an angry criminal in the ER where I worked) so I am saying no more to this shit, like many other workers.

I am interested in a certificate medical writing program at UCSD (my alma mater for MD) and there are so many doctors enrolling. I am happy taking a pay cut to preserve my mental well being. I know quite a few psychiatrists such as myself opting to leave direct patient care. That is one of the reasons there is a shortage of psychiatrists - many of us (the older ones with the most experience) are saying thanks but no thanks to working with society's most violent and deranged folks, especially without adequate security (that costs money so hospitals don't bother with it).

R278 Where are the fucking teenagers who want to work after school and on weekends?

[quote]After so many businesses shut down due to Covid, I can't understand why anyone would think about opening a business in the near future. Especially ones with poor business models like a $10 cupcake. That will be the first expense people cut when the next recession hits.

Fat whores, never stop eating fat food, I know a woman who owns 2 cupcake retail locations. She's making bank right now. Husband sued her for palimony. She slipped one time when husband kept a check instead of making the deposit. $20,000 a week was her gross sales, minimal employees, and yes, she's a Repug so anti-minimum wage type boss.

The courts ruled in her husbands favor and she was irate that a woman would have to pay to support a man for a change. He was her employee at some point so he also lost his job because of her.

[quote]But as for "the energy to go balls to the wall every day on the job without complaining," what the fuck kind of job is this? Most people aren't setting the world on fire with some promitive tribal passion and depth of dedication to a cause. And I would say that there are fucking few jobs that should have the balls to ask for half of that.

Yes, few should be asking for that kind of employee, but most expect it regardless. Never met a CEO who didn't think his company was the most important thing on the planet that ever existed.

Look at a company like Elon Musk's Tesla, the job board like Glass Door., there are thousands of them. The reviews are mostly about how hard the job is, 12 hour shifts, 60 hour or more work weeks, lots of weekends, overtime, no work life balance, must be totally dedicated to the cause. lots of instant group layoffs. Most burn out after a year or two, that's why they like to higher mostly Interns and people in their 20s and 30's.

Welp,….it’s literally been a few years since I distinguished between promising “jobs” by Repukes (Bush, et. al) versus “living wage payers.” Repugs always promised minimum wage “jobs” for their white trash voters, but never did they utter a word about living as a middle class, union, blue-collar white worker.

And then the stupid, white trash (I.e. average white Appalachian) thought these Rich/White former slave owners were making a winky-dink promise to them - that they will always fare better than their free black nig**rs.

JUST NOW THESE WHITE TRASH found out that rich, wealthy Republican white folk don’t give a shit about them!

I’d be mad as hell too! (If I were that stupid, anyway).

Welp again, these Dumyuns figured wrong again. So on January 6, 2020, ther exercised the White Privilege and tore the house down!

That's not why they tore the house down R294. They figure out nothing. They are not mad at the Repugs who lied to them they are mad they didn't get their way keeping Trump in office keeping their dream of white privilege alive. They still think he was a good business man and spoke for them. They still think they are the party of jobs and running the economy. They still think rich Republicans are the only ones who are honest hard working Americans. Complete opposite of factual reality.

When it comes to work, the good ones don't have BOUNDARIES!!

R296 Excellent video! And he makes some really important and valid points. He also has such pretty eyes, he's gorgeous

Damn, that video is great. And that article? Jeebus, you just know that bitch can't stand herself and has to have somebody on call at all hours of the day and night because the thought of being alone and not distracted just horrifies her.

"She does poetry, and writes for the Huff Post...."

Me: *groan*

God, working for a poet. What a fucking pain in the ass that would be. Some dingbat enamored by her own stupid words, and her "POETIC VOICE" all day long, and all night. And needing you to hear it, no, really HEAR it constantly. Oh the suckitude.

Well she's more than a dingbat, she is typical of many employers these days. All about that unlimited one way loyalty as the employer with not a second though of returning it in kind.

It's odd, in my fathers day, companies usually felt some kind of responsibility to the employees. Not saying it was ideal, but there was a kind of social contract that is completely gone today. I mean they all bitch on TV now about not being able to find workers, but no one questions them about how they are treated. Just once I would like a reporter to ask So before the pandemic, how many employees did you have that lasted longer than 5 years? Why the high turnover? What did YOU do to retain or earn THEIR loyalty other than letting the work for you?

[quote] All about that unlimited one way loyalty as the employer with not a second though of returning it in kind.

Well said. One question I have never asked when it comes to this type of thing in an interview: "what kind of loyalty can you promise me if I accept this position"

I loved that video at r296. Everything he said is true. I'm currently employed and made it pretty clear from the get go that I had work/life boundaries. So far, I can count on one hand during the past 6 years that I've been asked to work overtime or on my weekends. To my company's credit, they have always offered to pay me or give me extra time off if I've done it. I saw something once where an employer told a candidate, "We don't pay overtime" and the candidate responded, "Oh, that's ok. I don't work overtime."

More people need to start having better boundaries. In my 20's I often worked 12-16 hour days thinking it would pay off for me at some point. I'm in my 50's now and guess what? It never did. Lesson learned.

I did the same thing R303, I worked 12 hour days during the slow times and a lot of weekends for dirt pay on my first job out of college. It never paid off. It didn't matter when raises came around because, surprise surprise no one got raises because work coming in was slowing down. It didn't matter long term because they eventually got bought out by another company and laid everyone off.

I’ve only worked for a total of 5 years in my life. But then again my family are landowners, so I’ll say FU as long as I can. I have liquidity, but I’ve learned to live off the land and the sea. I have a beach house on Kauai. The “aina” (land and sea) provides all we need and it’s of the highest quality.

I think there is just a bleak sense of hopelessness that has pervaded everything. People don’t have a sense of optimism about life and things getting better, and that has spilled over into the workplace. People are also worn out by the constant sociopolitical drama and upheaval and just surviving with no end in sight. People are jaded and no longer as fulfilled by entertainment or buying crap, so everything is just daily drudgery. Twenty years ago at least you worked hard with the belief that striving, hard work and sacrifice meant something and would get you somewhere. Right now it just feels like you are stuck in a hamster wheel.

I spent 5 years making shit pay at a job I grew to despise with bosses I wouldn't piss on if I saw them on fire today. I'm in a MUCH better professional place now, but I remember how it felt. I don't blame people for leaving. If I was still at that job when COVID hit, I don't know what I would've done.

[quote]Twenty years ago at least you worked hard with the belief that striving, hard work and sacrifice meant something

I disagree with that. Boomers were in full control back then and largely responsible for the idea of one way corporate loyalty that is so pervasive today. This shitty behavior and ideology that you see corporate cocks do today didn't happen overnight. It's just that back then you had to suck it up, good jobs were hard to find. Now the balance of demand has shifted and they are "shocked and offended" that their way of thinking is to be questioned.

The movie Office Space hit the movie theaters in 1999. That tells you every thing you need to know about what it was like.

[quote]Old rules don't work. @ KelloggsUS announced it's firing strikers who refused "designed by strike breaking consultants" offer structured to turn workers against each other. Taking applications online. Milennials/GenZ applied en masse -with no intent of taking jobs. Crashed system.