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Are children actually worthless?

We protect children because they are small, weak, and vulnerable, but we are also protecting their potential. We want them to grow up to be somebody so they put us in the NICE retirement village, not the shitty understaffed government run one.

Fittingly of course, I'm 33 and have no children (and don't plan on it). Guess I'll be dying alone and miserable (or in peace).


by Anonymousreply 96January 19, 2022 11:56 PM

I certainly found their worth to be overrated.

by Anonymousreply 1October 11, 2021 7:58 PM

I’ll validate your choice to be childfree!

by Anonymousreply 2October 11, 2021 7:59 PM

Children are a gamble that you won't know if it pays off for 25+ years. Pass.

by Anonymousreply 3October 11, 2021 8:04 PM

You'll still need other people's children to do all of your elderly care and pay the taxes that fund it, other people's children to staff the shops and entertainment venues you use, make the products you buy, enforce the laws that keep you (relatively) safe, do the maintenance on your home, your car, etc, etc.

by Anonymousreply 4October 11, 2021 8:16 PM

Children are actually a negative investment (a drain on your resources and life forces) but they can add to your life in other ways, I suppose. They aren't for me and never have been, but I've seen them enrich others' lives. Of course what you end up with is a crapshoot so the ROI is very dicey.

by Anonymousreply 5October 11, 2021 8:20 PM

[quote] Children are a gamble that you won't know if it pays off for 25+ years. Pass.

That is true. Some people actually thinks that having children will guarantee being well taken care of when you're old and infirm. THAT is definitely NOT a given.

by Anonymousreply 6October 11, 2021 8:22 PM

If you've got nothing you can do with your life, have kids. Girl, you know it's true,

by Anonymousreply 7October 11, 2021 8:22 PM

I’m glad I had an abortion’

by Anonymousreply 8October 11, 2021 8:23 PM

Think about the children. They are our future.

by Anonymousreply 9October 11, 2021 8:39 PM

R4, how much of that will be automated in the next 20 years?

This society is heading towards hyper elitism. There will be no need for unskilled, uneducated - untalented - people. That's like 90% of the population.

by Anonymousreply 10October 12, 2021 2:20 PM

We are not suffering from a people shortage on this planet. No need to breed.

by Anonymousreply 11October 12, 2021 2:24 PM

I would imagine they’re especially worthless as they vomit on you at 2:00 am.

by Anonymousreply 12October 12, 2021 2:40 PM

I believe that the children are our future. Teach them well, and let them lead the way.

by Anonymousreply 13October 12, 2021 2:48 PM

I'm always surprised at the number of people who have kids saying it's so they will have someone to take care of them in old age. Not a very good reason in my view. Seems pretty selfish to me. I guess I don't consider life to be this great gift people talk of. I know that sounds bad but how I feel.

by Anonymousreply 14October 12, 2021 2:54 PM

People who have spawn for the sole purpose of having someone take care of them in their old age are in for a rude awakening, for the most part. You better have sense enough to provide for your own maintenance through irrevocable trusts, or whatever other means you choose, because relying on your kids to do it is statistically, a losing choice.

by Anonymousreply 15October 12, 2021 2:55 PM

Greg before he learned to cook.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 16October 12, 2021 3:05 PM

The kind of love that one has for their children is not "rational" in terms of one's own survival. It is certainly a basic requirement for survival of the species in evolutionary, scientific terms. The love that one feels for their children (normally) is 'agape', or selfless love. It is the 'fight off a grizzlybear, 'jump in front of a speeding train', and 'run into a burning building ' kind of love. When I saw my each of my children I felt this in the very marrow of my bones. It is the most powerful force on earth.

by Anonymousreply 17October 12, 2021 3:15 PM

R15 How much money you have for old age is irrelevant if there are no young people around to do the actual work.

by Anonymousreply 18October 12, 2021 4:37 PM

By not having kids you should be able to save enough money to hire someone to take care of you in your old age. I wanted to be a parent when I was a kid because I thought I could do a better job of it than my parents did, but then I grew up and was glad I was gay and would never have kids, at 70 I have no regrets.

by Anonymousreply 19October 12, 2021 4:40 PM


by Anonymousreply 20October 12, 2021 4:41 PM

[quote]Are children actually worthless?

This is the question you should ask your parents, OP.

by Anonymousreply 21October 12, 2021 4:42 PM

Deep Thoughts, by....

by Anonymousreply 22October 12, 2021 5:25 PM

No kids either OP. No regrets either. Then again I had a horrible upbringing so it's no surprise I don't want them. My parents should have made the same decision.

by Anonymousreply 23October 12, 2021 5:35 PM

I know that I sound like a monster to most people, but I hate kids. They’re annoying, loud, and violate your personal space. I would rather hire someone to care for me when I’m old anyway. Who wants their kids to wipe their ass?

by Anonymousreply 24October 12, 2021 5:43 PM

I've always thought it was funny that we protect people under 18 because of their potential but then once they are 18 we tell them to fuck off because we've got to get this next group to 18 so, as a society, we can tell them to fuck off, too. It's like the antiabortion loons who only stick around long enough to see the head pop out then they run off to vote to defund daycare and school meals.

by Anonymousreply 25October 12, 2021 5:44 PM

R25 Very true. The antiabortion folks only care about these kids up until they pass through the birth canal. After that they couldn't care less what happens to them.

by Anonymousreply 26October 13, 2021 12:32 AM

[quote] No kids either OP. No regrets either. Then again I had a horrible upbringing so it's no surprise I don't want them. My parents should have made the same decision.

I was in that same situation. My parents were the worst parents in the world. I always heard that people learn how to be parents from their own parents; I figured if that were true I should never have children because I knew nothing, absolutely nothing, about how to be a decent parent. There are some people in this world (actually there are a lot of them) who should NEVER have children and my parents were two prime examples. I've never regretted not having any. It was the absolute right decision.

by Anonymousreply 27October 13, 2021 1:26 AM

I believe children are the major cause of insanity in adults. Certainly not all of them, but kids learn to press an adult's buttons, and the adult, if they aren't careful, can have their value system eroded by a child's unreasonable demands.

by Anonymousreply 28October 13, 2021 1:39 AM

R28 I have a small business and am always amazed at how the young kids come in and simply can't keep their hands off my items. The parents will tell them over and over to stop touching things. Nothing seems to get through to them. As a kid if I were told by my parents not to touch something I didn't. One business in my area has a sign on their door saying if you can't control your children please don't come in. Sad commentary on our times I guess.

by Anonymousreply 29October 13, 2021 5:24 PM

If you are going to have children, please save money to send them to college (and maybe even grad school after). Society needs smarter people.

Thanks, OP

by Anonymousreply 30October 15, 2021 10:40 PM

Well they grow up and reproduce and make us gurls -- so NO: they're not worthless.

by Anonymousreply 31October 15, 2021 10:44 PM

I don't hate or resent children but I have never felt the slightest stirring of a desire to be a parent. The obsession some people have with reproducing feels so foreign to me. What I truly despise are entitled asshole suburban parents who think that the world should stop for them and their spawn. Like the breeders who think that having their kids mask up in a public place is tantamount to child abuse.

by Anonymousreply 32October 15, 2021 10:52 PM

R28 Some of the problem is the modern taboo against the parents having healthy social lives outside their homes. Anecdotally it seems that the days of parents having date nights or friends over for dinner while the kids are sent upstairs are less common.

by Anonymousreply 33October 15, 2021 10:55 PM

Abortion up to 500 weeks?

by Anonymousreply 34October 15, 2021 11:21 PM

I honestly think the kids are our only hope at this point.

by Anonymousreply 35October 15, 2021 11:36 PM

My parents were from the Greatest Gen I think they call it. Anyways, I once heard them bull shitting with other parents at a cocktail party were yes, SHOCK kids were allowed. They said "as long as none of them end up in jail, you know you did something right"

That was the yardstick of success.

by Anonymousreply 36October 16, 2021 12:04 AM

[quote]Are children actually worthless?

They are worth an extra $300 per month per child right now.

by Anonymousreply 37October 16, 2021 12:06 AM

Hear hear R31

Good point, R33

Maybe R35... but there may just be someone currently in their 30s who will come along and save us with reason. Wait for it ;)

*don't assume the next Great Mind and Heart is currently a child

I know, R37, and it's ridiculous that ALL Americans aren't receiving stimulus right now, and that 10 million Americans lost their UI last month. They are literally plunging whole swaths of the electorate in desperate poverty and we are gearing up for Part 3 of Ms. COVID.

by Anonymousreply 38October 16, 2021 12:14 AM

^ *into desperate poverty

by Anonymousreply 39October 16, 2021 12:15 AM


I’ve never heard anyone verbalize that need - if they do, they have no business being parents.

by Anonymousreply 40October 16, 2021 12:30 AM

Children aren't worthless. Sometimes their parents are, though. Shitty adults turn their kids into copies of themselves. It's the circle of worthlessness.

by Anonymousreply 41October 16, 2021 12:59 AM

I guess there are people who find fulfillment in producing a totally dependent human being and caring for it. But I was never one of them.

by Anonymousreply 42October 16, 2021 1:01 AM

I am so tired of all this shit about "the children"!!! What about the Children!!!! Come on people, having kids is nothing new or special, it's been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. If you want to have kids, fine, by why are you suddenly societies victim? Why do I as a single male have to pay tax money for some hetro couple with 6 rug rats because of too many "oops" how did that happen behavior? If you choose to have kids, you should not expect the rest of society to pay for them.

by Anonymousreply 43October 16, 2021 2:44 AM

Asians take care of their parents when the latter get old. American ship the parents to nursing homes.

No, not worth it, OP.

by Anonymousreply 44October 16, 2021 3:21 AM

That's more of a Boomer thing R44. In generations past, Americans did take care of their own elders a lot more. AKA Walton's style. Boomers didn't want to be burned with taking care of anyone but themselves so shipping parents to an old folks home became the norm.

by Anonymousreply 45October 16, 2021 5:29 AM

R45 Old people required much less care in those days because they didn't live long enough to experience the major health decline of advanced old age.

by Anonymousreply 46October 16, 2021 10:34 AM

Kids? Noisy and expensive. Imagine how great it would be with only old people around! And then we would die, and save the planet.

by Anonymousreply 47October 16, 2021 11:31 AM

Given the state of humanity and climate change, why anybody has a child now, whether you're wealthy or poor, puzzles me.

When I was a child, my mother, in a fit of parenting frustration, said out loud, "Don't ever have children!".

Those words didn't hurt me. I was an astute child, and before I heard my mother's words, had already made up my mind not to, after seeing the work, frustration, worry, time and attention us kids needed and to which my parents lives were devoted.

My parents were very good people and parents. They made painful mistakes raising their children, but I know I hit the lottery jackpot when I was born to them and my siblings would say the same.

As others here of pointed put, my beef isn't with children. It's with poor parenting.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard in a store parents "negotiating" with their kids. Or commenting "my child is a picky eater and won't eat that".

I don't recall my parents allowing that to be an option. We ate what was put before us, and we sure as hell didn't act-up in a store because the law was laid down to us before we went in: No touching any items, no speaking to store staff, no running or misbehavior. And we knew our parents meant business.

Children are not the peers of parents, nor do they wish to be, something my parents made crystal clear to us. Their was a chain-of-command in our household, with them as the Commanders-in- Chief.

If we made the mistake of acting up at school, our parents marched to the school, and in front of us, said to the staff, "Our children our to behave and follow school rules. If they don't, you have our authority to correct them and it will also be handled at home." Very powerful words that reinforced the authority of school teachers and staff rather than undermine it.

Dad died a long time ago. Mom lived into her 80s. After we were adults my mom expressed her love for for us by saying, "My kids are now my friends."

Whatever "expert" came up with the notion that children are the peers of parents out to be drawn and quartered.

by Anonymousreply 48October 16, 2021 11:53 AM

[quote]Are children actually worthless?

Not where I come from.

by Anonymousreply 49October 16, 2021 12:08 PM

Wanda Sykes had a short bit in her stand up routine where she tells of being told by a lot of people "Kids! They're a lot of work, but they're worth it!" as they'd all turn their heads away from her face. The joke was that nobody ever looked her in the eye when they said "....but they're worth it!"

by Anonymousreply 50October 16, 2021 12:39 PM

A lot of people have kids because it's just the done thing, what they're taught to do, they don't think about it. My parents should never have have had children, they were hopeless parents and had too many of their own issues. Society has to stop telling young people that the only way to happiness is to have children.

by Anonymousreply 51October 16, 2021 12:44 PM

I'm not paying a cent towards my parents retirement/ nursing home bills etc, and they don't expect me to, they've put money and investments aside for their own care.

by Anonymousreply 52October 16, 2021 12:46 PM

What’s the average net worth of a child?

by Anonymousreply 53October 16, 2021 12:46 PM

Good for a career boost, but yes, ultimately worthless.

by Anonymousreply 54October 16, 2021 12:49 PM

[quote]A lot of people have kids because it's just the done thing, what they're taught to do, they don't think about it.

Not only that. Girls and young women are soundly reprimanded by women who are already mothers if they suggest they don't intend to have children. Those who go so far as to voice disinclination to be around children are told the sinister, "You'll change your mind when it's your own." Surely every thinking adult knows in how many cases that's bullshit, but when you're young you often accept what your elders say, especially when it's clear your own opinion is considered outrageous.

by Anonymousreply 55October 16, 2021 12:52 PM

Remember Vulgaria, in Chitty Chitty Bamg Bang, the place with no children, and the child catcher? That's what the world should be.

by Anonymousreply 56October 16, 2021 12:57 PM

I'm r48, r55, and my Mom encouraged us NOT to have children.

She said when her and Dad were young and sexually active, if you got pregnant that was it, you had children. But nowadays with birth control, she said, you can be as sexually active as you want without creating a pregnancy.

And she was cool enough to add, "and if a mistake is made, it can be corrected." - abortion.

by Anonymousreply 57October 16, 2021 12:59 PM

My mothers' narrow minded friend was bitching to her one day about someone's daughter while i was there; 'she's such a loser, she hasn't even given her mother grandchildren.' FFS! I just walked out.

by Anonymousreply 58October 16, 2021 12:59 PM

Like most of the shit in society, I blame christianity for forcing/guilting people into having children, and for shaming women who don't. FFS, they even shame women who couldn't have children!

by Anonymousreply 59October 16, 2021 1:01 PM

Children are not a good retirement plan. I know someone who is an only child and fully estranged from his parents by his own choice for reasons that seem very petty to me. The parents seem to be nice people. He suffers from mental illness so I'm sure that's a factor. Just saying, don't bank on having someone there for you when you're old.

by Anonymousreply 60October 16, 2021 1:06 PM

Some frauen with children act like it's forced upon them, like they have no say in the matter, that one day a child just starts growing in their uterus. Then they make the rest of us suffer for it.

by Anonymousreply 61October 16, 2021 1:24 PM

R57, was that active encouragement never to have children, or just advice against unwanted pregnancy?

No mother wants her daughter (or son) to have an unwanted pregnancy on their hands, especially when very young, but tell the same mother you were NEVER going to have kids and that's a different conversation.

by Anonymousreply 62October 16, 2021 1:46 PM

My mom was good about me not having kids. She said it is your life and you are the one who will have to raise it so your choice. I got my tubes tied at 25 thanks to planned parenthood. She was fine not having grandkids. She only had one kid herself. She used to joke that I would get paid back although she had me well trained to behave so hardly had problems with me.

by Anonymousreply 63October 16, 2021 9:43 PM

[quote]Old people required much less care in those days because they didn't live long enough to experience the major health decline of advanced old age.

R45 = OK Boomer

That's not really true but you keep telling yourself that. That's not why Boomers started shipping Mom off to a home. The real medical advances have only now been starting to show in terms of living longer. Dont forget, the gen before Boomers also ate a lot less processed foods and smaller portions on average. A lot of them were hard working with physical labor working on farms and backyard gardens.

by Anonymousreply 64October 17, 2021 10:42 AM

R28 I think there is a flip side to your comment which is the number of adults who split with their ex or significant other then put hooking up with new partners ahead of taking care of their child/children. Anyone who has a child needs to put their full attention to their care. In my young days people didn't divorce at the rate it is today. I'm sure there were many less than totally happy marriages, but both parents were on hand to care for the kids. Nowadays people move from partner to partner and put the kids second to that.

by Anonymousreply 65October 24, 2021 2:27 PM

"Are children actually worthless?"

Abortion rights activists seem to think so.

by Anonymousreply 66October 24, 2021 2:36 PM

The parents I knew who expected financial rewards from the anticipated success of their children...it didn't work out so well.

But then pushing kids to be successful surgeons or anesthesiologists to ensure luxury in one's golden years seems like a ticket for what those parents deserve.

by Anonymousreply 67October 24, 2021 2:37 PM

The reason why we allowed birth control and abortion wasn't that we hated children but that we wanted them to be born into situations where they were wanted and properly cared for. If you look at stories about abused, neglected and murdered children, most of the time the parents are people who wouldn't dream of using birth control or abortion.

by Anonymousreply 68October 24, 2021 2:43 PM

Another "I'm so glad I never had kids, I don't have any regrets, I'm so blessed as a childless gay person" thread.

A self-validation orgy, if you wish.

That's totally what we need.

by Anonymousreply 69October 24, 2021 2:44 PM

"The reason why we allowed birth control and abortion wasn't that we hated children but that we wanted them to be born into situations where they were wanted and properly cared for."

But then abortion became birth control for many women.

The part that always gets swept under the rug is how brutal abortions actually are. And the PTSD/mental problems/guilt many women go through afterward.

It's not like going to the dentist and having a tooth pulled. It's a traumatic, soul-crushing experience.

by Anonymousreply 70October 24, 2021 2:48 PM

I know I wasn’t worthless. But I don’t have a desire to be a parent. Neither does my husband. Parents today are not very good at parenting in my opinion. Back in the 80s/90s we had to behave. Now it’s a free for all.

by Anonymousreply 71October 24, 2021 2:56 PM

I’m not sure about kids today. They either transition or take steroids. Let someone else deal with that.

by Anonymousreply 72October 24, 2021 2:57 PM

[quote]Asians take care of their parents when the latter get old. American ship the parents to nursing homes.

Yes. Asian women. That is why Japanese women, for example, are choosing in large numbers to ditch marriage and child rearing. They are already too busy carrying for elderly parents.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 73October 24, 2021 2:59 PM

This is what happens when straight women invade this site and monopolize it. Jesus fucking christ...

by Anonymousreply 74October 24, 2021 3:00 PM

I'm not sure why people think straight women are invading the site. That's no evidence of it.

Honestly, this is the type of topic that insecure gay men love. They feel the need for validation and find it necessary to justify their "choices". Fort instance, never in a million years would they have wanted children. They speak like it was their choices, like they could have had them in the first place... So delusional. 😂

by Anonymousreply 75October 24, 2021 3:06 PM

Gay men should never have children, especially test tube babies. Those kids are going to be messed up.

by Anonymousreply 76October 24, 2021 3:09 PM

Ah, the scientific expert had been spotted at r76. We've been waiting for you.

by Anonymousreply 77October 24, 2021 3:10 PM

I once asked my mother why my parents had children. She said 'so that you'd look after us when we're old'. I think she forgot the part where you have to actually make the kid want to do that.

by Anonymousreply 78October 24, 2021 3:17 PM

Test tube babies? That’s a phrase from 1986.

by Anonymousreply 79October 24, 2021 3:19 PM

if they can't do work around the house, they are disposable. And trust me, I know how to dispose.

by Anonymousreply 80October 24, 2021 3:21 PM

R76 directly comes to us from 1986.

by Anonymousreply 81October 24, 2021 3:21 PM

Yes, it’s safe to believe that R76 is up there in age.

by Anonymousreply 82October 24, 2021 3:22 PM

Having children? Forget it unless I become a millionaire in today’s dollars. With that said, children get a raw deal and I would put child welfare and advancement among my highest priorities if I were dictator, and I would offer free abortion and birth control

by Anonymousreply 83October 24, 2021 3:25 PM

We're glad to hear about your dictatorship fantasy, r83.

by Anonymousreply 84October 24, 2021 3:30 PM

Hard pass.

Adore my 4 year old niece but even after a day with her I’m ready to go. Kids are completely draining and it’s not their fault, it’s just the way it goes. If you are desperate to breed then fine - but this bullshit of society praising and treating parents as martyrs is fiction. Resources are drained, the world is on fire, we don’t need more people. But god forbid a you say that to 90% of people. All hell breaks loose.

Anyway - agreed OP. Fully.

by Anonymousreply 85October 24, 2021 3:49 PM

Handy answer to “what’s the point of life?”

by Anonymousreply 86October 24, 2021 3:52 PM

When did this site turn into a fucking Indian call center?

by Anonymousreply 87October 24, 2021 4:13 PM

Meaning, R87?

by Anonymousreply 88October 25, 2021 3:39 AM

No one ever got hurt by NOT being born.

by Anonymousreply 89January 13, 2022 11:26 PM

Some people genuinely love children and genuinely enjoy family life, and mazeltov to them! Someone or another has to breed! I genuinely wish such people well, it's the one who have ludicrously unrealistic expectations about child-rearing who worry me. And there are so many of them.

I swear decided I didn't want children at age five, I swear to God. I didn't like children when I was a child, family life was hell, I can't stand children or their parents as an adult, and I'm gay gay GAY so no accidents here! Other people may have agonized over a choice or wrestled with their feelings, I was just born to be child-free and I wouldn't have it any other way.

by Anonymousreply 90January 14, 2022 12:02 AM

[quote]Back in the 80s/90s we had to behave. Now it’s a free for all.

Both my sons were born in the 80s and believe me, parents were just as bad then. Bringing up well-behaved children in an affluent, white suburb wasn't easy when other parents let their kids run wild. Has everyone has forgotten Paul Lynde singing "Kids!" Same complaints back then.

by Anonymousreply 91January 14, 2022 1:07 AM

[quote]Are children actually worthless?

Your parents thought so, with good reason.

by Anonymousreply 92January 19, 2022 5:41 PM

I wasn’t worthless as a child, nor am I worthless now. I am surprised most of you lot think you were. At what age did you turn non-worthless? What kind of worth are we talking about anyway?

by Anonymousreply 93January 19, 2022 6:31 PM

If ppl are having kids so that they are taken care of in old age, they may want to visit a nursing home.

by Anonymousreply 94January 19, 2022 6:35 PM

"I wasn’t worthless as a child, nor am I worthless now. I am surprised most of you lot think you were. "

Well my mother told me over and over again how worthless I was as a child, and she was right! She's old now and I've shamelessly refused to give up my life to be her caregiver, thereby forcing my brother who she adored and favored do it!

It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

by Anonymousreply 95January 19, 2022 11:22 PM

I have kids, I love them but I could afford a WAY nicer retirement home/ nursing home if I had just held onto my money.

by Anonymousreply 96January 19, 2022 11:56 PM
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