5 challenges 'Seinfeld' faces in connecting with viewers on Netflix

Stupidest post ever - no one cares

I like it when I hover over a link someone posts and see that they're just forwarding stuff they saw on Facebook.

No one in their right mind thought the characters were likeable when the show was airing. Even my very conservative father enjoyed the show (and laughed about the hardest I've ever heard him laugh whilst watching it on Thursday nights), mainly because they were all terrible people.

If we're going to race bait Thursday night NBC sitcoms from the 90s, best of luck.

R3 yes, everyone knew they were bad people. The point is will today’s young people like the show and it’s characters. The article is basically saying that is one of the things that holds the show back from being on Friends or The Office level fame in 2021.

The characters in It's always sunny in Philadelphia are way more awful and that show is popular with younger people.

R5 barely. Look up that shows numbers. It has a loyal fanbase. It never had a LARGE fanbase.

R5 I disagree. The characters are assholes but not bad people. There’s a difference.

The Seinfeld gang were awful humans.

It’s Always Sunny is about the best show ever created.

R6 Seinfeld is one of the most popular tv shows of all times. The clips on YT get tons of views.

R8 It's Always Sunny was funny for about three seasons. Then it started become totally unrealistic and characters became a cartoon versions of the previous selfs. So no, it's not even close to being the best show ever. Seinfeld at it's worst was still way better than Sunny at its best.

I think we need to go back to the days when most popular didn't meant the best. Seinfeld is a brilliant show. Not everybody will get it. So what.

The disconnect is in having three of the ugliest men on earth (four if you count Newman) getting some of the most attractive women on earth - and those ugly men breaking up with them.

They are all awful (to a certain degree) and yet people will still see themselves in the characters in bits and pieces. That’s why it works.

These shows center around a tight group of closely knit friends. It's pretty rare when these groups have people of other races in them in real life. Maybe never except people they deal with in a peripheral way. It's just the way things are. I mean you can shoehorn people in because it's not reality.

R7 You are being sarcastic, right? Or you never watched the show. Frank used to have a sweatshop in Vietnam with kids working and he cooked humans to feed them. He himself ate humans. Dennis is a psychopath and a potential rapist. That's the running joke of the show. These people make fun of homeless, crippled, they droved people to suicide, they bully people constantly. So, not bad people? Seinfeld characters are saints compared to them.

A lot of young friend groups have POC these days r14

R12 That was the joke. But I guess younger generations would somehow find that sexist.

R16, that's what I was thinking. But then, I'm in NYC, so I see it all of the time.

[quote]The characters are assholes but not bad people.

I'd say pushing old women and kids out of the way to escape a fire is pretty bad.

R17, I'm not sure it was. Seinfeld is pretty full of himself. And he actually did date models IRL.

Seinfeld Is brilliant and hilarious

[quote]The point is will today’s young people like the show and it’s characters. The article is basically saying that is one of the things that holds the show back from being on Friends or The Office level fame in 2021.

The show wasn’t written for “today’s young people”. It was of its time in the 90s. Not everyone “got” it back then, and not everyone will like it now. Who cares?

While I can admire the show, I've come to loathe Jerry Seinfeld.

[quote]Pal George Costanza (Jason Alexander) inadvertently killed his fiancée by insisting they use cheap wedding invitations which had toxic glue.

No he did NOT. If you watch the episode he says to Susan, "let's pick up some Elmers," but Susan chose to lick them.

You know at the photoshoot, Jerry refused to cooperate with the plan. "No, I'm not going to have my dick on top of Jason's ass. It's too gay."

Let's say Kramer or Georgehad been played by a black man. Nothing else about the characters change, other than being portrayed by a black actor. Kramer still bursts into Jerry's apartment, eats his food, lets Newman sleep in Jerry's bed, never seems to have a job, but always has money. George lies to women, tries to poison his boss, spends lots of time on unemployment, and expends lots of effort trying to keep receiving unemployment. He does a shit job at work, and is generally shiftless and terrible.

Would the show be now lauded for diversity, or condemned for portraying black people as terrible? My guess is the latter.

R11 Just because people don't like something doesn't mean they "don't get it." Bless your heart.

[quote] It's about characters who pretty much know they are awful people.

No problem. It’s about New Yorkers. Duh.

[quote] It takes a while to find its groove.

Yeah. People in other parts of the country are slower.

[quote] It's set in a shockingly white New York City.

It’s Jewish humor. You got a problem with that?

[quote] It's got dated references.

Okaaay. Zoomers need not tune in.

[quote] Its real-life stars have had some, um, difficult moments.

Irrelevant.

Anything else?

Seinfeld is brilliant. I tried to rewatch "Big Bang Theory" and couldn't make it through the first two season. Sheldon, who I used to like is a huge jerk and gets away with it WHY? Penny is constantly trying to ruin Leonard's happiness with other women whilst dating other men. But then Leonard shows any interest in any other woman and she flies off the handle and tries to break it up, with the support of Blossom and that other ugly girl.

Raj is ridiculous as a character and Howard is just offensive. And no Howard you are NOT an astronaut. Flying into space does not make you an astronaut any more than flying on a plane makes you a pilot.

Yeah, The Gang are absolutely bad people.

And Always Sunny is hardly the only recent example of shows with awful protagonists. What a weird article.

Only bits and pieces of the show are "funny," and even then only funny to neurotic New Yorkers. Sitting through a whole episode is not worth the time. The last 2 seasons are not funny at all, just weird, and those seasons were done only to make money. Just watch a few clips of bits of it on YouTube and that's all you'll ever need.

I thought for sure that the article was going to be from Buzzfeed or Yahoo News. NPR? LOL

[quote]The disconnect is in having three of the ugliest men on earth (four if you count Newman) getting some of the most attractive women on earth - and those ugly men breaking up with them.

The “disconnect” you describe is what makes the show interesting and funny. It’s a satire.

Next up: Is the "woke" generation missing out on the genius of Norman Lear?

ff clickbait threads

[quote] neurotic New Yorkers.

There’s an oxymoron. Neurosis is a requirement for living in New York. And I mean it in the best way possible, being one.

I never found Kramer or Seinfeld funny. George and Elaine were always the best on the show. And George's parents.

Kramer reacting to Mary Hart's voice was just an awful performance. I saw it the other day and it was just dumb. Even John Ritter or Jim Carrey could've done it better.

I'm not an American and was kid in the 90s but don't find any references that are dated.

I can no longer look at Kramer the same way. His real life racial slur incident (it wasn’t that he just used the N word, he expanded on the image of it) has caused me to not see his comedic side any more.

And Seinfeld tried to redeem his reputation. I wonder of he would've done the same if Richards had been screaming "Kike" at someone.

if* he

R38 is right. I remember Jerry Seinfeld being on one of the late-night shows just after it happened trying to do some serious damage control. To me he clearly was concerned that Richards' behavior would taint people's view not only of Kramer but possibly the show itself.

R40, it was Letterman. He had Richards on the phone and the audience laughed and Seinfeld chastised the audience saying "Don't Laugh."

A sitcom from the 90s might have dated references in 2021. Heaven forfend.

R42, I agree that that's a pretty silly criticism to make. If you're going to go there, then you also have to find fault with MTM or All in the Family because they were made in the '70s.

Audiences had a sense of humor back then. We saw traces of ourselves in these not always nice characters because we could laugh at ourselves. We didn’t have to watch everything we said out of fear of offending anyone. We’re living in a humorless, robotic world right now so the show won’t work at all for a new audience.

For Christ sake do we have to fucking analyze fucking everything? If you find it funny watch it. If you don't watch something else. I'm sure there is something out there that will appeal to your taste.

Just move the fuck on.

R37 Your grief and inconsolableness is felt through our bone marrow here on DL. The residual trauma we all felt when hearing him utter those thoroughly objectional epithets is akin to being present at the slaughter of a loved one. Their shrieks represented by the slurs as they're eviscerated before our eyes.

Go forth with this unconscionable burden you bear, knowing we all share in a duty to constantly relive it day after day after day. Bleak unforgiveness is nigh and always painfully present.

For the first two unwatchable seasons of Friends Ross was doing a Seinfeld impression.

[quote]For Christ sake do we have to fucking analyze fucking everything?

I’m not sure analyzing is the problem.

“For Christ sake do we have to fucking agree on fucking everything?” might be a more apt question.

Like you basically stated, R45, ‘If you don’t like it, watch something else.’

Seinfeld was a great show. Its legendary success continues to influence young comedians and writers. Love it.

One of the most important sitcoms in television history. No one cares what someone nobody at NPR has to say. Seinfeld’s legacy is cemented in history.

The problem isn't the criticism. The problem are the people who whine about the criticism treat that criticism as if it's some wildly-held belief by a mass of "woke" people and then use the tiresome line "This is why Trump won."

Number 6: 3 of the 4 leads are privileged Jews. When they should have been BIPOCs.

Seinfeld was a huge success on the USA, but never did that well abroad. The humour was too local to translate well in other countries, so it's not a surprise that it didn't age well

Kramer is not funny to me.

I believe Kirstie Alley also defended Richards.

Yes r53

It was usually shown late night hours in the UK when people were asleep because it was a ratings dud while in prime time.

[quote]1- It's about characters who pretty much know they are awful people.

So is, "It's Always Sunny" and it's fine. "The Flight Attendant" is a show where the lead is an awful person. It never stopped anyone from laughing at Jenna Maroney, Tracy Jordan or any of the characters in "30 Rock."

[quote]2- It takes a while to find its groove.

Well, it does. So do a lot of shows. So did, as mentioned in another thread, "30 Rock."

3- It's set in a shockingly white New York City.

This is a problem BUT most people know that shows from back then had this problem so they'll overlook it and hope that shows going forward do better.

4- It's got dated references.

And it has references that aren't quite dated. It's also such a prolific show that people reference the references made in the show. Festivus and "man hands" are timeless. Susan dying from licking envelopes, the big salad, the woman that had a closet full of the same dress? "Yadda, yadda, yadda!" and George looking busy at work? Kramer walking around dressed like a pimp in a technicolor Dreamcoat? There's nothing that doesn't make those funny today.

5- Its real-life stars have had some, um, difficult moments.

Richard is a non-entity at this point. Jerry still gets flack for dating someone so young. People recognize those things as wrong but that doesn't stop them from enjoying the good parts of the show especially since neither of those things had anything to do with the show.

Jerry Seinfeld is probably jerking off to that article.

As an older millennia I find some the jokes relatable and I am sick and tired of every form of entertainment been analyzed through a woke lens. It is bad enough when I side with boomers.

I can't stand Jerry. He's always smirking, just a terrible actor and not funny as a stand up comedian. I love Larry Davis and JLD, but the that isn't enough to make me watch.

I liked the show well enough during its original run, but unlike other older shows I don't feel any nostalgia or enjoyment in revisiting it.

Seeing it on the Netflix menu was a big thud.

R59 same.

I liked it a lot during its original run and on reruns during the 90s but I try watching it now and it’s not enjoyable. I wish it were but it isn’t.

Seinfeld isnt a show that’s great in reruns and isn’t good for background noise.

Shows like Friends are great for that.

I loved Seinfeld during its original run. Now I can barely watch a few minutes of it because it’s simply stupid.

Seinfeld was Larry David's work and people love how hateful he is on Curb Your Enthusiasm. At least I do.

As with the other Seinfeld thread, the lack of diversity complaint is pointless. It's what, almost 30 years old? Why not take on this issue with beloved modern shows -- because complainers know the backlash would make their head spin if they went after a current popular show. It's 2021 and there's still plenty of shows without much diversity, but sure, let's tear down old shows for the Hell of it.

I'd love to see them try this with shows like "It's Always Sunny", "Shitts Creek", "Trailer Park Boys", "How I Met Your Mother", "Breaking Bad", etc., but they wouldn't dare. Somehow a show 3 decades old is supposed to live up to modern standards most current shows can't even meet. That's ridiculous.

Jerry wasn’t an actor and never pretended to be. He didn’t try and launch into a film career and wisely never tried another sitcom. He made his money and only works when he feels like it. Good for him.

I agree with the idea that we shouldn't hold old TV shows from 30 years ago up to the standards of today when it comes to diversity.

BUT

[quote]I'd love to see them try this with shows like "It's Always Sunny", "Shitts Creek", "Trailer Park Boys", "How I Met Your Mother", "Breaking Bad", etc., but they wouldn't dare. Somehow a show 3 decades old is supposed to live up to modern standards most current shows can't even meet. That's ridiculous.

They did attack It's Always Sunny and Rob has spoken A LOT about how they've changed it. He rectified it, with his new series, Mythic Quest. It's an extremely diverse cast.

Schitt's Creek had East Asian Ray recurring and African Canadian Ronnie who was recurring but on the show enough that they would always take the actress to award shows. So you can take them right off this list.

Trailer Park Boys had Cory. Take them off of this list.

How I Met Your Mother went off in 2014 and it was also critizied.

Breaking Bad went off in 2013 and yes it was criticized.

Yeah HIMYM got the same hate Friends and Seinfeld and SATC got for being NYC shows where even 99% of the extras were white.

I never understood the complaints about no diversity because the simple fact is that most people have friends that are the same race as them with maybe a few exceptions - even if they live in a big city.

R68 the complaints were not always about the main cast, they were that even most extras were white. No matter where the characters were there was a sea of white faces with maybe one black or Asian here and there.

I remember “The Intern” with Hathaway and DeNiro getting ripped by some for that too. It was set in Brooklyn with many outdoor scenes and throughout the entire movie it was ALL WHITE with an Asian here and there. Every person who worked for her was white. It was insane.

Look, nobody can deny how lily-white network primetime was in the '90s, but to suggest that the average white, upper-middle class, college-educated 30/40-something living in Manhattan below 96th street would have had social/family connections as "diverse" as the entire city's demographics is just wrong. New York is still highly segregated, like most American cities. There's a reason that the main characters on Mad about You and Will & Grace lived in the boring, milquetoast Upper West Side while Living Single was specifically set in BROOKLYN.

Every TV commercial features biracial couples now. Every single one. It's a joke.

I know I'm really late in correcting myself, but I meant widely-held, not wildly-held.

Seinfeld had lots of non-white actors, and Blacks in roles like lawyers, judges, co-workers etc. It hardly stereotyped.

PS Blacks are still 13% of the population according to the US 2020 Census.

Nancy Meyers directed The Intern and rarely features non whites even in the background. And I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt by using the word ‘rarely.’ I rewatched It’s Complicated on cable a few weeks ago and was struck by how white it was.

R66 what R73 said about there being non white actors, which isn't much different than the shows I mentioned. Maybe those were criticized, but I can't help noticing a pattern to really dig into media 90s or earlier, when it's not as if much has changed. I can't shake the feeling there's a nastier undertone to it, like having to prove everything in the "past" (idk, pre 2016) is "problematic", with strong hints of ageism (to prove how much better the new way of thinking is because of oh so enlightened young people that know so much better.)

Idk if my gut feeling about it can even be conveyed properly in writing because it's difficult to explain in words. This pattern of condemn older popular media seems to have a strange condescending shade to it.

I'm not even saying problems should be ignored (because how would things ever change) and in fact, think it's good to be aware of past issues in media, but this feels more like taking digs at those who enjoy/ enjoyed it by repeatedly targeting specific shows, rather than discussing that there are general issues across the board (even now a days). I noticed as soon as one person writes a highly viewed article, with a pov that initially goes against something once popular, everyone clamors to jump on the bandwagon. Reminds me of the trope about hipsters, where they have too good of taste to find anything redeeming about anything mainstream.

Just for example; when "Sex in the City" or "Friends" popped up on the radar, it's like everyone decided they are not just shows with problems, but enjoying them conveys something about those that watch/ watched them, because they've been turned into a mockable cliche. Suddenly Seinfeld is the new hot target, thrown in the pile with the rest of them, when there's no way of fixing a show from the past.

Yes, a majority of shows had a mostly white cast. How much can there be said about it though? And how will shitting on particular shows solve it? Seems like it's more about proving how terrible past shows were than it is about wanting to make things better.

R75, I completely agree with what you're saying. Ageism and all of that. "LOOK AT THESE SHOWS THOSE OLD PEOPLE WATCHED! LOOK AT HOW PROBLEMATIC THEY ARE AND HOW OKAY WITH IT EVERYONE WAS!" I know some of it is triggered by these shows being put on streaming platforms so people write stories, rehashing the same old points for clicks, when it's all been said and done before because they're relevant again. It's all so transparent.

I'm having trouble expressing what I want to say as well. Mostly, it's all been said and done before and it seems that when people bring these topics up they're doing so for attention and they're not really breaking new ground. There's a culture of "rage" articles that's been prevalent for the past few years.

People can comment on how problematic 30 Rock was, but that's not going to stop people from watching it. It's good to look back and say, okay we've progressed beyond some of this but it didn't mean you were a horrible person if you watched, "How I Met Your Mother."

R77 appreciate you getting where I'm coming from because it's too easy on a forum for people to write it off as if I'm saying white washing shouldn't be acknowledged. I'm not white and fully understand wanting to see diversity. It's nice when media showcases a variety of people. It's also nice to see progress by noticing the differences in older media.

I fully agree about a trend towards rage articles these days too. I only hope that people tire of clickbait and demand articles that are genuine and actually contribute something more valuable than these streams of unhelpful word vomit.

R78, I appreciate you for explaining. I'm not white either. I'm happy you're here. I'm not sure how many times we have to read about Friends being problematic or homophobic. We know. It has been discussed to death. We can't change it. We can try and look at it and see how people can do better but we've already done that too. It's lazy of the article writers.

I broke down the shows earlier that were mentioned as examples only to say that, yes. Things have progressed. Not to say someone is wrong. There's an acknowledgment that people of all colors and sexualities exist in the most random environments and that yes, some of the negatives have been discussed with shows that haven't gotten there yet. Not as loudly or as harshly as people go on and on about shows from a decade or so ago but it's there. (And as we touched base on, there's a reason for that happening which ties into trying to shame people who watched those shows which isn't really helpful.)

But yes, after a certain point it's exhausting and I would hope that we could all move on and by "we" I mean the writers of these articles and try and try to write about things that are helpful.

[quote] Look, nobody can deny how lily-white network primetime was in the '90s, but to suggest that the average white, upper-middle class, college-educated 30/40-something living in Manhattan below 96th street would have had social/family connections as "diverse" as the entire city's demographics is just wrong.

1. Which of the characters was college educated upper middle class?

2. College and universities are one place where people are often exposed to different races/ethnicities.

Also, college produces many idiots

They keep acting like the lack of diversity is going to kill these shows. I’d say it’s the opposite. People are mistaking a genuine support for a fair treatment of black folks for a lack of interest in the minutia of black lives. People want to watch shows about people that have close enough life experiences to their own to connect. Isn’t that the whole point of tHe pOwEr oF viSiBiLiTy? No one is asking black people to watch Seinfeld.

I just saw an ad for a new black soap opera called Our Kind of People and the first episode was called “Reparations”. That’s all well and good, but it’s one of a significant amount of new shows devoted to the black experience. It doesn’t take an idiot to figure out why new shows are struggling to hit in any way while these turn of the century sitcoms are obliterating their numbers x100 and raking in hundreds of millions a year in steaming contracts.

[quote] They keep acting like the lack of diversity is going to kill these shows. I’d say it’s the opposite. People are mistaking a genuine support for a fair treatment of black folks for a lack of interest in the minutia of black lives. People want to watch shows about people that have close enough life experiences to their own to connect. Isn’t that the whole point of tHe pOwEr oF viSiBiLiTy? No one is asking black people to watch Seinfeld. I just saw an ad for a new black soap opera called Our Kind of People and the first episode was called “Reparations”. That’s all well and good, but it’s one of a significant amount of new shows devoted to the black experience. It doesn’t take an idiot to figure out why new shows are struggling to hit in any way while these turn of the century sitcoms are obliterating their numbers x100 and raking in hundreds of millions a year in steaming contracts.

Why are you idiotically attempting to make the the author's argument about black people. The article is not about black people. The lack of diversity is just one of the challenges mentioned. Diversity is not a synonym for black. Racial diversity = all nonwhites. Seinfeld takes place in one of the most diverse cities in the country, so of course the lack of diversity is criticized.

You're attempting to use this thread to argue that all white shows are successful because all white shows are what you prefer. And those shows should not face critique. Your argument is just ridiculous.

[quote]There's a reason that the main characters on Mad about You and Will & Grace lived in the boring, milquetoast Upper West Side while Living Single was specifically set in BROOKLYN.

IIRC, the Buchmans actually lived off of 14th Street in Union Square.

And speaking of "Mad About You," they cast a black actress as Richard Kind's second wife on the 2019 revival series. She was a psychiatrist who was helping guide Jamie (Helen Hunt) in her new career. I don't recall the actress's name but she was very good in the role.

R84, Kecia Lewis who was on The Blacklist and Law & Order: SVU :)

Thanks, R85.

I’m a GenX nyc native - I loved the show but didn’t follow it too closely because I wasn’t watching much tv at that point in my life. I did watch the disappointing finale and read some of the media post-mortems, It was only then, with the discussion of prison being a fitting end for such awful characters that I realized they were all supposed to be seen as unlikable; They had always come across as just exaggerated but pretty normal to me.

I get so annoyed at the "this thing shot 30 years ago wasn't diverse enough" trope that infiltrates everything these days.

You know, I see Instagram photos. I see the little groups out at lunch or brunch or dinner or at the bar. I see the wedding party photos. I even see the kids of my friends who have kids and their friends. Friend groups, with some exceptions, are usually all of one race. Sometimes you get one person of color in a white group. Sometimes you see a white person in group with mostly people of color. Has anyone ever been to to suburbs?

I don't understand why TV gets shit on or is supposed to depict something that isn't happening in real life to any great degree. I don't think it means that people are racist, it just means that people sort of group together with people who have shared experiences and sometimes that shared experience is skin color.

[quote] I get so annoyed at the "this thing shot 30 years ago wasn't diverse enough" trope that infiltrates everything these days. You know, I see Instagram photos. I see the little groups out at lunch or brunch or dinner or at the bar. I see the wedding party photos. I even see the kids of my friends who have kids and their friends. Friend groups, with some exceptions, are usually all of one race. Sometimes you get one person of color in a white group. Sometimes you see a white person in group with mostly people of color. Has anyone ever been to to suburbs? I don't understand why TV gets shit on or is supposed to depict something that isn't happening in real life to any great degree. I don't think it means that people are racist, it just means that people sort of group together with people who have shared experiences and sometimes that shared experience is skin color.

1. You're stripping a way the context (which = NY City one of the most diverse cities in the nation) and using your own anecdotal experience to legitimize unconscious racial bias. Unconsciously excluding people because of race is no better than consciously excluding people because of their race. Racial exclusion is still racial exclusion.

2. We should not have had to have the same conversations about race 30 yrs past the civil rights movement, in the 1990s. Now 50 yrs past the civil rights movement, we're still having the same conversation. A conversation that should have never been necessary. Fools like you are still standing around saying: Well I don't see anything wrong. Translation. I benefit from racial inequality and I really don't want that to change.

It may seem silly to have this conversation about a television show. However, the same nonsense permeates every aspect of our culture. And people continue to stand around and say: well I just don't see anything wrong.

Watching Jerry’s Netflix show “Comedians in Cars getting Coffee,” and it’s very apparent how full of himself Jerry is. It’s almost over-the-top.

[quote]Well I don't see anything wrong.

Because there isn't anything wrong. I missed your thread about the scores of TV series and films made by, for and about blacks, with nary a white or any other race face present and how they contribute to racism/racial exclusion. Same racial inequality that you choose not to see.

[quote]You're stripping a way the context (which = NY City one of the most diverse cities in the nation) and using your own anecdotal experience to legitimize unconscious racial bias.

That is such bullshit. Have you ever been to New York? Yeah, it's very diverse, but we're talking individual friend groups. Seinfeld was not about NYC, it was about 4 despicable people. And some of you think that just because you have that one black person at work that you go to lunch with and only see at the office, that you somehow have a diverse friend circle. Please.

The funny thing is that Seinfeld's real life circle does include black friends/comedians.

[quote]Seinfeld isnt a show that’s great in reruns and isn’t good for background noise.

I don't wish to know people who need "background noise" from TVs.

R90 I will be full of myself too if i sold my show to Netflix for 500 million dollars. My smugness will go through the roof.

At least Seinfeld poked fun at its whiteness a couple times, most notably the episode where George tries to create the false impression with his Black boss that he has Black friends, after the boss is offended when George says he looks like a famous boxer.

That’s more than most notoriously white shows ever did to lampoon their own whiteness.

There was also the episode where Elaine dates a man (“Daryl”) and isn’t sure if he’s Black or not. Turns out he’s not and that he thought she was Latina.

Daryl: “So we’re just a couple of white people?”

Elaine: “…. I guess …”

Daryl: “Do you wanna go to the Gap?”

Elaine: “Sure!”

Why was Elaine so obsessed with finding out if he was half black or not? Who cares?

She wasn't until Jerry said something.

[quote] Pal George Costanza (Jason Alexander) inadvertently killed his fiancée by insisting they use cheap wedding invitations which had toxic glue.

That was one of the funniest fucking things ever.

[QUOTE] Why was Elaine so obsessed with finding out if he was half black or not? Who cares?

She would’ve gotten more wet in bed knowing she was getting some black dick.

[quote]the complaints were not always about the main cast, they were that even most extras were white. No matter where the characters were there was a sea of white faces with maybe one black or Asian here and there.

Not only was that true back in the 90s, but it's still true in NYC today depending on what kind of establishment it is. Walk into any bar or restaurant in certain neighborhoods and the customers are mostly white.

r89 most friend groups in NYC are one race. A group of white friends may have a few black or Asians in it, but it's still mostly white. That's just reality. This ridiculous notion that all groups of friends on tv shows should all be a rainbow of diversity is rather silly and looks so forced.

There was also the "Indian Giver" episode -- they were pretty much where liberal culture was on race at the time.

[quote] I loved the show but didn’t follow it too closely because I wasn’t watching much tv at that point in my life. I did watch the disappointing finale and read some of the media post-mortems, It was only then, with the discussion of prison being a fitting end for such awful characters that I realized they were all supposed to be seen as unlikable;

The last few seasons were dire, but, as I recall, the first 3-4 had some of the funniest, sharpest writing I’ve seen on a sitcom. There were episodes that ran like clockwork before tying up neatly at the end. I was in college, majoring in writing, and it was very impressive.

[quote] Why was Elaine so obsessed with finding out if he was half black or not? Who cares?

I’m half-black, with racially ‘ambiguous’ features, and I assure you, LOTS of people care. Not only do they care, they will argue with you when you don’t give them the answer they were expecting. Apparently, I’m not REALLY black! It’s exceptionally tedious!

[quote]most friend groups in NYC are one race.

Okay ...

[quote]A group of white friends may have a few black or Asians in it

But then that wouldn't be only one race?!?!?

r105 most friends groups, even in NYC, are predominantly one race with maybe a few people not of that race. I have never seen a group of close, intimate friends that is very multicultural like you see in the media.

R106, I'm not arguing with that.

I'm saying, if there's the possibility of that group having someone who isn't of that race as a friend then it's not weird to have a group of "friends" with one person who is of a different race. It's not something that never happens. It happens. People have seen it. I've been in those groups.

[quote]I have never seen a group of close, intimate friends that is very multicultural like you see in the media.

I have. My main group of friends has Asian people, Latino people, Black people, and White people in it. Everyone mixes and matches with smaller groups occasionally but those are the people you'll find when anyone throws a party.

R104 you aren’t mixed race.

Turn on the TV today. Based on the commercials and shows currently on, one would think 50% of America is Black.

2020 Census: 13% of US is Black.

Slightly more than 1 out of 10 people.

Oh, this ole talking point.

24% of the population in NYC is black. 43% is white. Then there's everyone else. See how that works?

Television isn't just made for people in THE USA.

These 4 selfish people were caught up in their own world. Very few things penetrated that world. To get hung up that it wasn't diverse enough is silly. That wasn't a part of the conversation in the 90s. People were making money, Bill Clinton turned the economy around, you could fly to LA roundtrip for $200. No one cared or was caught up in how diverse Seinfeld, Friends, Living Single, and Martin were.

And I'm not sure why we are supposed to care now. Is Jerry supposed to do a disclaimer at the beginning of each episode "The images you are about to see were filmed in a different time, before we knew better. Please forgive us the 90s, we are all more enlightened now."

[quote]I have. My main group of friends has Asian people, Latino people, Black people, and White people in it. Everyone mixes and matches with smaller groups occasionally but those are the people you'll find when anyone throws a party.

Parties and groups of friends in NYC and elsewhere tend not to be hugely diverse. People tend to stick with their own when it comes to their immediate circle, with maybe just a few others. It's not the United Nations that you see on tv and in movies and commercials now.

The Upper East Side and Upper West Side, in particular, are still pretty white.

It's like the Family Guy joke about multicultural gangs on TV shows.

r111 spot on, the best response in this thread! what a tedious topic this is.

[quote]It's like the Family Guy joke about multicultural gangs on TV shows.

That's always hilarious, and the two Alphas of the gang are usually Anglo-Saxon looking white dudes.

[quote] Why was Elaine so obsessed with finding out if he was half black or not?

Dating a black guy was important to Elaine so she could flaunt how liberal she was

[quote]Dating a black guy was important to Elaine so she could flaunt how liberal she was

Like the writers and SJWs trying to earn woke cred by these insane attacks on 90s shows for not being "diverse" enough.

Well. Smell R94!

So this is NPR now?

I don't mind forced diversity even though it's not something I can readily identify with. What I really dislike is the way white people are often depicted as villains or childish buffoons, and the black character has to calm them down or educate them. I immediately get turned off to the tv show or movie when that is depicted.

The next review will suggest that Curb Your Enthusiasm needs more positivity.

[quote] What I really dislike is the way white people are often depicted as villains or childish buffoons, and the black character has to calm them down or educate them.

It's called the "Magical Negro" trope and black people hate that too.

Key & Peele had a great sketch about it.

[quote]What I really dislike is the way white people are often depicted as villains or childish buffoons, and the black character has to calm them down or educate them. I immediately get turned off to the tv show or movie when that is depicted.

Oh, you delicate flower, you. But you're cool with the endless, negative and nefarious depictions of most every other minority group over the entire history of Hollywood,

Fictional Village Voice personal ad from the 90s:

GWM age 24 seeks to create friend group of about 6 people. Seeking even mixture of gay/straight, men/women/trans, even mix of ethnicities and economic classes needed. Activities will include coffee shops, concerts, cocktails, living room hangouts, and possible romantic hijinks. Please reply with personality description (include race/gender/sexual orientation,) and financial information. No sexual predators please. Friendship group must withstand scrutiny under information super-highway standards to be determined 20 years from now. All responses considered.

SEINFELD in the Netflix Top 10 again today.

How nice.

This thread inspired me to dust off my Seinfeld DVD set and start a rewatch. Laughing my ass off. It was a great show and still is.

Frasier was lily white too. But there were successful black sitcoms at the same time.

What do we have today on the level, popularity and longevity of these shows?

Network tv isn't anywhere near as popular as it was in the 90s, because of cable and streaming. The only people I know who still watch network shows are my parents and aunts and uncles, who are all in their 60s and 70s.

There was Black Frasier, R127. It aired on Thursdays at about 9 or 9:15. They would never have a black man dress as a woman.

R128 people still watch network tv. It’s just not as much.

Cable tv is dying too. Everyone watches online now. I always laugh when you people make those claims, as if This Is Us wasn’t bringing in 20 million viewers a week and they have a large young demographic.

There is someone on this site who keeps FFing posters for no reason and getting them greyed out. This is becoming a problem.

Who the hell watches This Is Us? Flyover fraus?

Who watches the super popular show This Is Us? It didn’t become popular just because. It became popular because it brings in big ratings, and that’s why NBC is desperately trying to find its replacement.

It also wins its time slot with the young demo.

r133 reeks of frau

I actually loved how Seinfeld used black characters. None of them were part of the main cast but they never felt like tokens like so many shows before or after (looking at you, Friends). They were just as weird, insane and sometimes even normal as the other characters on the show. And Jackie Chiles was legit one of the best characters on the show.

The question was, are there sitcoms/comedies that enjoy relatively similar popularity like Seinfeld, Friends, Frasier, Cheers - on any platform - network tv, cable, online, streaming, whatever?

I don't know if it's about audience and platform fragmentation either. There are shows that still grab people's attention like the 'watercooler shows of the 'old days'. Tiger King for instance. Sitcoms though? I wouldn't say Ted Lasso is it.

Don't know if that's because of PC culture and various triggered cohorts but it's more the quasi-comedy or satires like Succession that get made today. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I love Succession and enjoy Ted Lasso. But whenever I catch a Seinfeld of Frasier rerun I sit through it and it's guaranteed fun-ny!

Good call, r135.

I also love the episode where George busts into the home of the Black family who rented "Breakfast at Tiffany's" in order to watch it with them. He spills grape juice on the couch.

R1377, probably the episode where George was the most unlikeable and that's saying something. I also liked the one where George became paranoid about the black guy in his office thinking he was racist so he bribed his exterminator into pretending to be his friend.

R137 Just watched that clip two days ago on YT. He acts like he owns the place.