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President Biden Sides With the Progressive Left Over Manchin and Sinema

[QUOTE]“We are fighting for the Build Back Better agenda,” said Rep. Ilhan Omar, employing Mr. Biden’s preferred slogan, which would have been shocking at this time two years ago when she rallied early to Sen. Bernie Sanders’ candidacy.

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by Anonymousreply 219October 28, 2021 2:53 PM

Typical shit NYTimes framing. Biden's agenda is in the infrastructure + reconciliation bills. Biden and Pelosi promised they'd be a package deal, and that was part of the compromise between progressives and moderates in designing both. It's the handful of so called centrists who have betrayed him and his agenda by going back on their word and blowing it up.

But the Times loves centrists, almost as much as they love conservatives, attacking Dems, and hating progressives, so they will not state clearly what actually happened in favor of this nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 1October 2, 2021 9:05 PM

This is the proper framing:

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by Anonymousreply 2October 2, 2021 9:18 PM

I would add to R1 and R2 that the "moderate/centrist" and "progressive" labels aren't really descriptive in these discussions. The contrast is between Democrats who side with a few major corporate donors and those who want to lean on (overwhelming) popular support for infrastructure investment, voting rights, etc.

by Anonymousreply 3October 2, 2021 9:21 PM

Agreed, R3. That's why Favreau's framing is the correct one, as opposed to the ooga-booga both sides bullshit from the Times and other beltway media.

by Anonymousreply 4October 2, 2021 9:24 PM

This article is so stupid. This IS his agenda - it always has been. You can look at his campaign statements and they align exactly with what's in this bill. It's the whole party's agenda except for a half dozen Reps and two Senators.

by Anonymousreply 5October 3, 2021 4:32 AM

I agree R5.

by Anonymousreply 6October 3, 2021 4:35 AM

Well the left damn sure wasn’t saying that during the primary and election, R5. Let them tell it and Joe Biden was the second coming of Ronald Reagan.

by Anonymousreply 7October 3, 2021 12:55 PM

And the fact of the matter is that Joe Biden could easily be pushing for more compromise right now, and he’s not. The Manchin/Sinema group were probably counting on it, and he’s not budging.

by Anonymousreply 8October 3, 2021 12:59 PM

Look at Bill Maher coming to the defense of these clowns. 10 years ago, this might have been Joe Biden.

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by Anonymousreply 9October 3, 2021 1:09 PM

This is what Biden said:

[quote]We can bring the moderates and progressives together very easily if we had two more votes. Two. Two people.

He's working toward compromise and he's being honest that two people are holding the compromise up. Biden is supporting the Progressives and that IS part of the compromise. He's been far more progressive than many expected him to be and that's a good thing, and keeping the Progressive Dems on his side is the right thing to do here.

He clearly was trying to work with Sinema as well because he met with her and Manchin to hash things out a few days ago, but rumor is that it's hopeless because she's too clueless to work with.

Biden also said that even if it takes weeks, "We're going to get it done," which indicates he's working on compromises.

Anyone at this point who says "Biden could be pushing for more compromise" is either trolling or not paying attention.

by Anonymousreply 10October 3, 2021 1:20 PM

^And is ignoring the fact that splitting up the proposals into complementary infrastructure and reconciliation bills was part of the compromise. The progressives gave a LOT up on the promise that they bills went hand in hand. It's Manchen/Sinema and a few sellouts in the House who want to mask screwing over all of us to appease their biggest donors by bringing an infrastructure win back their constituents. And now they're going so far as to lie and pretend there was no such compromise to begin with.

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by Anonymousreply 11October 3, 2021 2:00 PM

I guess we can add domestic policy to that now.

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by Anonymousreply 12October 3, 2021 2:10 PM

If Bill Maher said that Sinema and Manchin "have their thumb on pulse of the average Democratic voter" he's living in even more of a bubble than we thought. Even outside the Democratic party there's wide support for these bills.

by Anonymousreply 13October 3, 2021 2:29 PM

Martin Luther King Jr. was right when he called out white moderates. They’re terrible.

by Anonymousreply 14October 3, 2021 2:32 PM

[quote] If Bill Maher said that Sinema and Manchin "have their thumb on pulse of the average Democratic voter" he's living in even more of a bubble than we thought. Even outside the Democratic party there's wide support for these bills.

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by Anonymousreply 15October 3, 2021 2:58 PM

Did SNL mock Caitlyn Jenner? Did they use a male actor? I mean, if they’re going to mock bisexuals…

by Anonymousreply 16October 3, 2021 3:21 PM

Horrible political judgement from the start by Biden. Thinking he could ram through a "progressive" bill when the progressives don't control Congress. Yet somehow pretending they do.

The real question is, why didn't he introduce a possible bill not an impossible bill at the outset? Now he just looks more incompetent than ever.

Being able to count votes is the essential political skill.

by Anonymousreply 17October 3, 2021 3:32 PM

Or, R17, maybe he's negotiating properly by asking for more than he knows he can get, then "settling" by prudent compromise for more than the conservatives want him to have.

by Anonymousreply 18October 3, 2021 3:45 PM

Exactly, R18.

Furthermore, when he's up against this sort of batshittery, any step forward is a win.

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by Anonymousreply 19October 3, 2021 3:55 PM

R18 If he'd been negotiating properly he wouldn't be in the mess he's in today. He just kept dreaming the problem would somehow go away rather than face it early on.

And what's with that Build Back Better slogan? You don't include "Back" in a slogan that's supposed to represent progressive movement forward. Nor do you include an incredibly weak word like "Better" which suggests the best is somehow beyond trying for.

by Anonymousreply 20October 3, 2021 3:59 PM

sleepy biden no passed bill sleepy biden is so looser

by Anonymousreply 21October 3, 2021 4:06 PM

Marsha Blackburn —> 🤡

by Anonymousreply 22October 3, 2021 4:29 PM

The trolls finally found this thread!

Meanwhile, the obstructionists keep lying. Or you seriously think Manchin suddenly discovered spending on infrastructure was just "too progressive?"

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by Anonymousreply 23October 3, 2021 5:11 PM

Many say Obama’s biggest mistake was being too moderate and conciliatory to Republicans his first term. In fact, Obama is widely disliked by progressives today as being too timid to pursue a bold progressive agenda while Democrats had control of Congress. To some extent, the discontent with Obama’s moderate actions caused Democrats and progressives to sit out of the critical 2010 election. Obama tried to course correct toward progressive policies in his second term, but it was too late then because Republicans controlled Congress. Moderate Obama is responsible for Bernie. Progressives are already moving to break off into a third party if Democrats don’t give them their way. Andrew Yang is salivating

by Anonymousreply 24October 3, 2021 5:27 PM

[quote]Progressives are already moving to break off into a third party if Democrats don’t give them their way.

Let them. This is good. At least then maybe I can vote Democrat, happily now.

by Anonymousreply 25October 3, 2021 5:28 PM

Can’t believe I’m going to say this because Ive defended the media for years…but fuck them.

This is all bullshit—and destructive bulls hit at that. An attempt to stir up drama because their readers/viewers are down following the Trump madness.

by Anonymousreply 26October 3, 2021 5:32 PM

[quote] Progressives are already moving to break off into a third party if Democrats don’t give them their way. Andrew Yang is salivating

What would Yang, of all people, want that?

by Anonymousreply 27October 3, 2021 5:45 PM

R25

No, that isn’t good. Unless you want Republican rule.

by Anonymousreply 28October 3, 2021 5:49 PM

R24 As to Obama, it had nothing to with being conciliatory towards Republicans. In fact he wasn't. He made clear Mitch and the other old pols disgusted him.

But then he stepped back and made the Republican Congress his excuse for doing nothing. Other than never get around to exiting Afghanistan, shutting Guantanamo Bay, stopping militarization of the police, etc etc.

by Anonymousreply 29October 3, 2021 5:51 PM

Many years from now we'll discover Manchin and AOC were being paid by McTurdle and the Repugs to disrupt.

by Anonymousreply 30October 3, 2021 5:56 PM

[quote]Horrible political judgement from the start by Biden. Thinking he could ram through a "progressive" bill when the progressives don't control Congress. Yet somehow pretending they do.

It's a good thing I don't rely on some of you all for my political analysis. EVERY DEMOCRAT IN CONGRESS SUPPORTS THIS BILL except two Senators and a handful of Representatives. Everyone talking about "progressives" versus "moderates" here is showing how uninformed they are.

by Anonymousreply 31October 3, 2021 5:58 PM

AOC is not a disruptor here. She and the Squad are not the ones backing out of a promised compromise. This is squarely on the "centrists" the Beltway media love to hype as the voice of Real America when in fact they are holding up reform that is both widely popular and the best guarantee of Dem wins in 2024.

by Anonymousreply 32October 3, 2021 6:01 PM

R31 It's the "handful" of Democrats who won in swing districts last year. You know, the ones who are responsible for Democratic control of the House.

by Anonymousreply 33October 3, 2021 6:07 PM

^^^Stephanie Murphy won by 12 points and Josh Gottheimer won by 14.

So, no.

Those who won by slim margins like Abigail Spanberger and Conor Lamb, etc., are fully on board with passing legislation and getting a win they can brag about.

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by Anonymousreply 34October 3, 2021 6:16 PM

One piece of evidence that dude is not on the up-and-up:

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by Anonymousreply 35October 3, 2021 6:20 PM

Progressives aren’t numerous enough to win the presidency or compose most of the Democratic Party, but they are numerous enough to sabotage Democratic victories

by Anonymousreply 36October 3, 2021 6:24 PM

R34 Passing what legislation? Swing district reps want to be able to brag NOW about the real infrastructure bill the "progressives" have sandbagged. The one Pelosi gave a blood oath would be voted on in September, a blood oath she had to give to get their support on moving forward with the pork bill. You can't double cross as many people as she just did without consequences.

by Anonymousreply 37October 3, 2021 6:26 PM

I will not be considering as serious any arguments utilizing the GOP phrase "pork bill".

Thank you and have a nice day.

by Anonymousreply 38October 3, 2021 6:41 PM

Again, this "moderate" versus "progressive" bullshit is just a cover for "corporatist Democrats" versus "Democrats in line with public opinion." The problem is money in politics and voter suppression, i.e. oligarchy.

by Anonymousreply 39October 3, 2021 6:42 PM

R39, Perhaps, but until progressives can win statewide outside of Vermont, New England, and the Pacific Coast, they are not in a position to get their agenda completely enacted

by Anonymousreply 40October 3, 2021 6:51 PM

Something to pay attention to.

What Tara is saying here is exemplified in R19 and the Politico/Axios/DailMail arguments 37 is foisting.

I noticed yesterday that GOP Rep Buck from Colorado among others have already started in light blue and pink district with the narrative that "Democrats can't govern". Be on the lookout and you will see it as well.

And that is great for incumbent "moderates" like Murphy and Gottheimer who are from exceptionally safe seats; they can rake in the corporate funding and continue to get re-elected as Democrats if that serves them or switch sides of the aisle (if the majority flips) if that serves their interests better.

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by Anonymousreply 41October 3, 2021 7:08 PM

The trolls are hellbent on insisting the progressives have sabotaged the infrastructure bill contrary to those pesky facts. The progressives are all in on the infrastructure bill, even though it's far less than what they initially wanted. The AGREEMENT was reconciliation passes first because while the progressives could be relied upon to vote for infrastructure, the handful of so-called centrists could NOT be counted on with reconciliation. And they are proving those concerns were 100% correct.

Pass reconciliation AS AGREED UPON and every progressive votes for infrastructure. Doing the reverse means reconciliation dies and progressives get sandbagged by the handful of so-called centrists who are beholden to their donors and not their constituents. And the Dems go into 2022 with half-assed measures that few voters will feels the effects of in time. Of course the trolls want to pretend otherwise because they are deplorables who don't want the Dems to win.

by Anonymousreply 42October 3, 2021 7:45 PM

R40 Biden won nationally including flipping 2 red states with this very agenda.

Anyone who is casting these 2 very popular (even in red districts) bills as the progressive agenda is tacitly acknowledging that the majority of the US is "extreme left."

Do go on.

by Anonymousreply 43October 3, 2021 7:48 PM

They need to trim the bloated 3.2 trillion dollar bill.

If Dems can't even pass infrastructure bills, then they deserve to lose in 2022.

by Anonymousreply 44October 3, 2021 8:00 PM

Biden has made plenty of mistakes, but he can count votes in Congress in his sleep (as can Pelosi). If he’s not giving in to Sienna and Manchin, it’s a good sign he thinks he can get them to fold.

by Anonymousreply 45October 3, 2021 8:08 PM

What's "bloated" about it, troll?

It's already been trimmed down. Quite a bit. Even further than what's in this graphic:

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by Anonymousreply 46October 3, 2021 8:08 PM

R42 You are simply lying. The progs wanted an agreement that the recon bill would pass first but never got it.

They did get an agreement, which was honored, that the recon bill would start moving through. In return the mods got an agreement that there'd be a vote on the infra bill by the end of September. This was not honored.

by Anonymousreply 47October 3, 2021 8:09 PM

Pelosi said it repeatedly over the summer: reconciliation must pass the Senate first. That was the deal. Not "moves," PASSED. Biden confirmed it. So YOU can stop lying.

[quote]"There ain't gonna be no bipartisan bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill," she said. "As I said, there won't be an infrastructure bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill. Plain and simple. In fact, I use the word ain't. There ain't going to be an infrastructure bill, unless we have the reconciliation bill passed by the United States Senate," she reiterated. Pelosi's statement comes after Republican and Democratic senators said Wednesday evening there was an agreement reached with White House officials and 10 senators on a bipartisan infrastructure deal. And on Thursday afternoon, Biden said he had signed off on the agreement. He also said, however, that he would not sign the bipartisan bill unless the investments he has proposed in his American Families Plan, which Democratic leadership plans on passing through the budget reconciliation process, also end up on his desk.

Manchin was on board that the 2 had to go hand in hand, til he suddenly had amnesia and forgot everything that was said and done over the past 9 months.

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by Anonymousreply 48October 3, 2021 8:13 PM

If Pelosi were a Republican, the press would be tripped all over itself to call her a master tactician for yanking the infrastructure vote to punish Manchin and Sinema.

by Anonymousreply 49October 3, 2021 8:15 PM

Biden in June:

[quote]“Look, the bipartisan bill from the very beginning was understood there’s going to have to be the second part of it,” Biden continued. “I’m not just signing the bipartisan bill and forgetting about the rest I proposed. I proposed a significant piece of legislation in three parts. And all three parts are equally important.”

by Anonymousreply 50October 3, 2021 8:22 PM

Biden has done a few things that leave me cold but he seems to be doing what he is really determined to do, fuck a reelection, and I respect that. He may be a lot less moderate than the platform he ran on, and he is doing what he believes to be right.

He has told some whopper lies, though, like the whole student loan debt forgiveness thing. That feels very bait and switch.

by Anonymousreply 51October 3, 2021 9:16 PM

There was never ever a deal. Just people saying what they wanted.

The blood oath deal got the mods to support moving to the next step on the It's Christmas! bill in return for a vote by Sep 30 on infrastructure. Without that deal the mods would have sunk the big bill before Nancy and her elves even started loading it with goodies for every lobbyist -- every paying lobbyist -- in town.

by Anonymousreply 52October 3, 2021 9:42 PM

R52 determined to keep lying.

Infrastructure was hugely watered down, and to keep progressives on board reconciliation was beefed up. Pelops I and Biden in JUNE announced they were a package deal, with reconciliation having to be passed first. No one, not a single so-called centrist disputed this. Even Manchus was on record as agreeing the 2 went together.

AFTER the Senate passed infrastructure in AUGUST the gang of 8 in the House announced via letter they wanted infrastructure passed and signed without reconciliation. They deliberately waited til after the vote to make sure no Dem Senators voted no when they went back in the deal. Manchin develops amnesia and pulls a 180, contradicting everything he said before about how much he was willing to spend. Sinema turns into a babbling idiot who thinks compromise means not telling anytime what you will or won’t agree to.

One of the 8, Gottheimer, trashed Pelosi for pulling the infrastructure vote but notably the other 7 didn’t sign into his statement. They know they can’t defend this with a straight face.

The trolls will keep lying but you can’t change the timeline of events.

by Anonymousreply 53October 3, 2021 10:22 PM

“Pelops I” = Pelosi. No idea what ruler autocorrect was trying to reference.

by Anonymousreply 54October 3, 2021 10:23 PM

No no no again. Biden said the bills were linked then had to backtrack after the mods screamed. See, e.g., "Biden Walks Back Threat To Block Infrastructure Deal Over Democratic Priorities."

Do try to keep up. Though with Joe at the helm I admit it's difficult at times.

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by Anonymousreply 55October 3, 2021 10:28 PM

At this point Biden is going to be a one term president anyway. It would be a shame if he got nothing passed. There’s all or nothing mentality is part of the problem.

by Anonymousreply 56October 3, 2021 10:33 PM

progressives want universal health care. This is the MODERATE DEM AGENDA. Joe Biden is a Moderate Dem. Manchin and Sinema are Traitors.

by Anonymousreply 57October 3, 2021 10:38 PM

R55 do you read your own links? That was about Republicans complaining. And he didn’t walk back the timing plan, he just made clear he want threatening a veto. Pelosi held firm on the timing of the votes. Find one Democrat who claimed that wasn’t part of the deal BEFORE infrastructure moved through the Senate.

by Anonymousreply 58October 3, 2021 10:39 PM

It should be telling, except to the lying trolls of course, that only TWO Dem Senators and only EIGHT Dem Reps are holding up reconciliation. (And it may not be 8 anymore, since 7 left Gottheimer with his pants down.) That means about 98% of Dems in Congress representing the progressive, moderate, and conservative wing of the party are on board.

by Anonymousreply 59October 3, 2021 10:45 PM

Lobbyists are working hard to defeat the reconciliation bill. Also, to make sure the infrastructure bills benefits billionaires and corporations. They are going to Manchin because he ALWAYS does what the corporations want and sinema is the newly crowned corporate whore.

We need Campaign Finance Reform, along with Voting Rights. This is bleak.

by Anonymousreply 60October 3, 2021 10:48 PM

You're truly an idiot R20!

by Anonymousreply 61October 3, 2021 10:52 PM

R59 The recon bill is in fact not being held up by some tiny number of Democrats but by Republicans representing essentially half of the electorate. Reading comments here you'd sometimes think the only voters that matter are those who vote Democratic.

by Anonymousreply 62October 3, 2021 11:36 PM

I don't care, Joe Biden uses whatever votes he can get to get this legislation passed, that's the ultimate goal, that's all that matters.

by Anonymousreply 63October 4, 2021 12:11 AM

[quote] He clearly was trying to work with Sinema as well because he met with her and Manchin to hash things out a few days ago, but rumor is that it's hopeless because she's too clueless to work with. Biden also said that even if it takes weeks, "We're going to get it done," which indicates he's working on compromises

He's not going to get anything done. Does he not understand that manchin and sinema will not vote for it. No matter what he does

They've been paid to vote against it. And that's what they will do

by Anonymousreply 64October 4, 2021 12:36 AM

Good. Joe must play hardball. Progressives will be stay by his side, as will two thirds of the American people, not the wishy washy con-lite dems.

by Anonymousreply 65October 4, 2021 12:42 AM

[quote] Can’t believe I’m going to say this because Ive defended the media for years…but fuck them.

What in the fuck is wrong with you? You defended the media and thought they did a good job and were fair?

the media repeats the republican lies as if they were the truth. They've always done this. They're evil.

Any evening program on CNN consists of the host saying whatever they've been talking about all day (the media is LAZY), with a democrat giving their spin and a republican guest flat out lying. They do this at 8pm, 9pm, 10pm and 11 pm

by Anonymousreply 66October 4, 2021 12:56 AM

R62, unfortunately everyone except the Beltway media, Manchin, and Sinema know that the Dems have to govern as if they expect the GOP to undermine them. They shouldn't also have to expect Dems will as well.

by Anonymousreply 67October 4, 2021 1:23 AM

The other thing that's so shitty about what these so-called centrist assholes are doing is pretending the big sticking point is the overall cost being too high. But the infrastructure bill they want passed and signed won't be fully funded until the tax increases in budget reconciliation. (Infrastructure needs about $550 billion in new funding, but only proposes less than $400 billion in new, recouped, or diverted revenue). So if cost is really the issue, why wouldn't they want reconciliation resolved along side it? (Because duh their donors DON'T WANT the tax hikes.) Manchin keeps talking out of both sides of his mouth on this and of course the awful Beltway press refuses to lay it out for the folks not paying close attention to the differences between the 2 bills.

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by Anonymousreply 68October 4, 2021 2:31 AM

Typical Beltway assholery from a WaPo White House reporter. But yeah, all the "both sides!" bullshit is about being objective, right?

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by Anonymousreply 69October 4, 2021 2:36 AM

R64, well Biden and the not-stupid Dems have one bit of leverage (if they are willing to use it)--the debt ceiling. No way Manchin and Sinema's corporate donors are OK with letting the US default. Durbin ruled out resolving the debt ceiling via reconciliation claiming it was logistically impossible now, but if they flip and add it to the reconciliation bill they could force the 2 dumbasses to vote on it. They'll both scramble and try to get enough Republicans on board for a filibuster-proof stand alone bill, but they won't. So their only last option would be to nuke the filibuster and they don't want to do that either.

Or they could just threaten to shut down all the military bases in WV and AZ. There would be riots at both Manchin and Sinema's offices.

Sadly I don't think the Dems have the guts to do either.

by Anonymousreply 70October 4, 2021 2:56 AM

[quote] He has told some whopper lies, though

We know.

by Anonymousreply 71October 4, 2021 3:34 AM

. Make life too miserable and Senators can switch from Dem to Repub. Manchin would face zero blowback n W Va if he did that. i’m sure that won’t happen but it could. Hurting the whole economy to punish two Senators is also a bad idea.

by Anonymousreply 72October 4, 2021 3:49 AM

Not only that, but can you imagine the incentives on offer to him. Chairmanship of his choice. Best office in the Capitol. Maybe just maybe Mitch would step aside and let him be Majority Leader.

by Anonymousreply 73October 4, 2021 4:33 AM

Manchin would be primaried if he switched, and he'd lose. And his daughter needs protection.

by Anonymousreply 74October 4, 2021 4:42 AM

Can we get this Kyrsten Sinema back?

Please?

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by Anonymousreply 75October 4, 2021 4:47 AM

Progressive want Medicare for ALL. Modern Medicine for ALL Americans.

Progressive Democrats are helping Joe Biden's Agenda. Joe Biden is a Moderate. Manchin and sinema are fucking over the person in their own moderate democrat group, JOE BIDEN.

by Anonymousreply 76October 4, 2021 5:31 AM

Manchin and Sinema won their election as Democratic Candidates. Joe Biden won his election for President. They are suppose to pass Democratic Bills. Why are they working to undermine us? These bills are great for the American People. Manchin and Sinema are so vile and disturbing, I just cannot.

by Anonymousreply 77October 4, 2021 5:34 AM

R77, Manchin most certainly didn’t win his election in WV because he was a Democrat. He one on his own very independent brand.

by Anonymousreply 78October 4, 2021 5:42 AM

[quote]Manchin would be primaried if he switched, and he'd lose.

Doubtful. Republicans have been trying to get Manchin to switch for a few years now.

by Anonymousreply 79October 4, 2021 5:50 AM

^ What does that have to do with anything? That just means they wanted to make use of him when convenient. Even the most loyal GOPers have been primaried in favor of lunatics, no way unpredictable Manchin would survive. And there are plenty lunatics in WV salivating at the thought of taking Manchin's place.

His approval numbers have tanked (for all the trolls going on about Biden's approval numbers, Manchin's in WV are much worse), and even if he got them back up his Dem voters will never forgive him for switching after years of promising he never would. He'd need a solid red voting block and he won't get it because he voted to impeach Trump.

by Anonymousreply 80October 4, 2021 6:04 AM

There's no way Republicans would primary Manchin if he switched sides. Manchin is Dixiecrat. He is elected because of name recognition and in spite of his party affiliation.

by Anonymousreply 81October 4, 2021 6:10 AM

WV is Trump country and Republican voters there are pissed that Manchin voted twice to impeach. That already makes him vulnerable in a primary, but if he pisses off his loyal Dem and independent voters by switching, he'll be in serious trouble for a general election as well which guarantees a primary challenge.

by Anonymousreply 82October 4, 2021 6:24 AM

Manchin's poll numbers are still solid despite someone quoting Daily Kos headlines. He's also not switching parties so it's a moot point.

by Anonymousreply 83October 4, 2021 6:34 AM

Manchin keeps on getting elected, he is not vulnerable. He could easily vote for Joe Biden's bills and be fine. Manchin is a corporate whore. He wants the money. This is not about him getting elected.

Sinema is going to get primaried in the Dem Primary. She is fucked. Progressive and Democratic groups are not going to work for her next election. It is over for her.

by Anonymousreply 84October 4, 2021 6:38 AM

R83, Manchin is down to 42% approval (below Biden's nationwide numbers). He was around 50% a year ago. But I agree with you he's not switching parties.

by Anonymousreply 85October 4, 2021 6:42 AM

He down to 42 from 49, which was a few years ago...hardly considered tanking. He's also in line with Republican Capito, who is at 45. Seriously, branch out with your reading. Daily Kos is wishful thinking half the time.

by Anonymousreply 86October 4, 2021 6:46 AM

Manchin is NOT in trouble in WV. He keeps winning elections. He is a nasty assed, cooperate licking, attention whore. He could easily vote for Joe's agenda and be fine.

Sinema, who is trying to do the same attention whore/corporate ass licking thing, is not in the same place in Arizona. She is in trouble. The Democratic and Progressive orgs are not going to work with her again for the next election. She GONE.

by Anonymousreply 87October 4, 2021 6:47 AM

Oh, and in WV, Biden's favorability is at 36%...his nationwide numbers have no bearing here

by Anonymousreply 88October 4, 2021 6:48 AM

More like,

Progressives try to help Joe Biden pass bills through congress because this is THEIR JOB. Congress is not supposed to be OBSTRUCTIONIST. Remember, obstruction is BAD. Progressives want Medicare for ALL, btw.

by Anonymousreply 89October 4, 2021 6:51 AM

Not sure why you keep referencing Daily Kos when it's local WV press that is reporting his numbers. Caputo's job approval rate is 52%.

Oh and the Biden reference was simply for comparison--he's reported as in serious trouble when he dropped to 45%.

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by Anonymousreply 90October 4, 2021 6:54 AM

The Daily Kos recently ran two stories...that Manchin would lose in a Republican primary if he switched sides and that his poll numbers have tanked. Coincidentally, those two items are being thrown out here. It's bullshit. The story you posted says Manchin is 'holding tight' in poll numbers...and what was the word you used? Tanking? Hmmm

And Biden's national numbers have no meaning when we are looking at a specific state. If you wanted a legitimate comparison then you should have used his approval in WV and not nationally.

by Anonymousreply 91October 4, 2021 7:10 AM

Manchin had to be begged by Dems to run the last time. I’m sure he’s done with the Senate. Sinema is a flake,

by Anonymousreply 92October 4, 2021 7:22 AM

Both their terms end in 2025 so primary threats are years away.

by Anonymousreply 93October 4, 2021 7:26 AM

R91 I was comparing the perception of their respective numbers, stop pretending otherwise. That's why I used "tanked"--because that's how Biden's drop was described.

And if you saw what happened to Steve King or Eric Cantor, and if you know anything about WV, it's obvious why Manchin would be vulnerable if he switched parties. There's no such thing as GOP loyalty and while Manchin pulls in an impressive 15i%sh of GOP voters, WV is bright red and there's no reason the mass of GOP voters would settle for a RINO when they can have the real psychotic deal. The GOP leadership there hates him and no doubt have their equivalent of a Matthew Cawthorne lined up and ready to take his seat the first chance they get.

And you have no business talking about "legitimate comparisons" when you claimed Caputo is at 45% when her job approval is 52%.

by Anonymousreply 94October 4, 2021 7:42 AM

Like I said, there is no risk to them for VOTING YES for Joe Biden's agenda. Manchin is completely safe. Sinema has raise her profile as a complete clown asshole and people who voted for her are PISSED AT HER. They can just pass these bills. They should have just passed the bills, it would have BEEN BETTER FOR THEM.

by Anonymousreply 95October 4, 2021 8:26 AM

Absolutely. Pass these bills and Dems keep their majority (and maybe even grow it) in 2022 and the presidency in 2024.

Manchin and Sinema are shooting themselves in the foot.

by Anonymousreply 96October 4, 2021 8:41 AM

Manchin has been a consistent vote for the Democrats. And, unlike ALL the Senate Republicans, he is on board for voting for much of the human infrastructure bill that is being incorporated into reconciliation. I get the criticism of Sinema, a senator from a purple state, but this criticism of Manchin, a senator from the MOST red state in the union absolutely confounds me & tells me that most DLers are politically ignorant.

by Anonymousreply 97October 4, 2021 8:41 AM

How's Senator Leahy been feeling lately?

by Anonymousreply 98October 4, 2021 8:49 AM

Good question, R98. It points to the fact that the Dems may not have the luxury of time when it comes to legislating or getting their judges confirmed. We could overnight see a 51-49 GQP majority.

by Anonymousreply 99October 4, 2021 9:01 AM

R97 if you're politically astute, you'd notice that what Manchin is doing re these bills is marked difference than the usual bipartisan politicking he does to survive as a Dem in a deep red state.

Early this year he supported $4T spending on infrastructure, with his usual caveats that he wants a bipartisan plan. He led the design of the $1.2T bipartisan infrastructure plan, where progressives gave up a shit-ton. He publicly supported the idea that the infrastructure bill would go in-hand with the reconciliation bill which would have an additional $3+T spending, getting us to his original proposal of $4T total infrastructure spending but still much much lower than what progressives wanted. He said he supported paying for infrastructure by raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations, which is in reconciliation NOT the infrastructure bill. He had "bipartisan" coverage, the spending is centered around his number, and both bills combined poll very well in WV even among Republicans (which is something like the 50th state ranked for infrastructure). And, most importantly for the guy who keeps insisting we can't have more spending without paying for it, the big chunk of the revenue comes in reconciliation.

Then once the bill he designed passes the Senate he announces there has to be a "pause" on the reconciliation bill because we've spent too much money SINCE LAST YEAR. WTF? This makes no sense whatsoever. The whole package was designed around his demands, and did he not know about last year's spending when he set $4T as his ceiling earlier this year? It's obvious he's pandering to his donors, NOT listening to his constituents or treading carefully as a Dem in a red state. He has bipartisan coverage and he has a very popular second bill that combined with the first is right on target to what he said should be the spending limit. And the second bill has the VERY popular corporate tax increases.

This is in part why his favorability took a steep drop this year. Unlike many of his previous tightrope walks, this makes no sense to his defenders. Only his donors.

[quote]A poll of 600 registered West Virginia voters found 48% support Biden’s reconciliation plan. After polled voters were given the option of raising taxes on the richest Americans and corporations, while closing the loopholes that have caused significant wealth disparities, support for the plan rose as high as 70%.

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by Anonymousreply 100October 4, 2021 2:39 PM

Republicans had the Senate from 1995 to 2009. I fear they are able to retake it longterm

by Anonymousreply 101October 4, 2021 2:54 PM
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by Anonymousreply 102October 4, 2021 5:20 PM

That you're harping on Manchin is per se evidence of your cluelessness. Whatever, and I mean WHATEVER, we get out of a DEMOCRATIC Senator from West Virginia should be considered utter gravy.

by Anonymousreply 103October 4, 2021 5:50 PM

he's right

by Anonymousreply 104October 4, 2021 5:59 PM

Exactly, R22

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by Anonymousreply 105October 6, 2021 2:41 AM

Makes me sick whenever I’m reminded that Marsha Blackburn is now a US Senator.

by Anonymousreply 106October 6, 2021 2:44 AM

there are a lot or retirees moving to TN from across the county. Blackburn's stance being against Medicare and Medicaid is not at all popular. Health Care is a serious issue to win seats in TN.

by Anonymousreply 107October 6, 2021 3:08 AM

Maybe, but Abortion and Christian identity are much more important to voters

by Anonymousreply 108October 6, 2021 3:20 AM

Being "against Medicare"? Any astute person on or waiting to be on Medicare knows there will be premiums added to pay for that dental and hearing coverage, and that the dental coverage in particular will do about as much for you as the typical dental policy today, which isn't much.

by Anonymousreply 109October 6, 2021 4:08 AM

Manchin switching in todays WV GQP is not going to be a winner. He’d lose. He voted twice to impeach their GOD.

Manchin has nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting for every penny of the $3.5TBBB bill. WV would see huge gains from the bill. That being said, he is the best we could get from WV.

Sinema. Hmmmmm. There’s something so off with her. It is the oddest thing I think I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. She’s in a solid purple, trending blue, state. She seems to have a bright future in elected office there. She’s never been considered a corporate Dem but solidly center/left. IDK what the hell she is doing right now but it is going to tank her chances in elected office.

by Anonymousreply 110October 6, 2021 4:59 AM

Manchin could easily have voted for these bills without any consequences from voters. He is taken money from Fossil Fuel companies as there is a massive oil leak and devastating ecological disaster off the California Coast. Manchin is not a moderate democrat, He is a Corporate WHORE.

Build Back Better Act with help his own West Virginia Constituents, and even more they support this bill, polling shows this.

by Anonymousreply 111October 6, 2021 6:25 AM

.,.,

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by Anonymousreply 112October 6, 2021 7:18 AM

Dems like Sinema are going to become more common. She's a republican but because republicans have such low social capital, she's she's marketed herself as a democrat.

by Anonymousreply 113October 6, 2021 7:22 AM

Republicans are already saying they are doing just this.

by Anonymousreply 114October 6, 2021 7:38 AM

He may be a corporate whore, R111, but ain’t we lucky we got him. Good times.

by Anonymousreply 115October 6, 2021 7:56 AM

Sinema is not stupid. She's intelligent and 100% sane, but she's a republican. People scratching their heads wondering what's up with her strange behavior are so very naive. Posturing as a liberal while acting like a republican is a very obviously prudent position for a republican to take in this political climate. There was a recent poll that stated that 90% of Harvard undergrads identify as liberal. This is not so. Rather, people are laundering their political beliefs under the 'liberal' label because the world liberal is the identity that respectable people covet. 20 years ago everyone was a 'patriot', now everyone is identifying as liberal because it signals to people that they are are in the in-group, the good guys, the intelligent, cultured class who loves America and hates Hitler/Trump. Be weary of labels. Labels do not always correspond with reality.

by Anonymousreply 116October 6, 2021 8:13 AM

R116 That’s too complicated. She sold out. He sold out and has been selling out. It is really that simple. Follow the money.

by Anonymousreply 117October 6, 2021 11:37 AM

All that Obama cared about during his entire presidency was to look good as the first Black man to hold such a high office. The last thing he wanted was to appear as an “upitty” Negro. He wanted to leave a good legacy. Ironically, by pursuing and reaching such a low bar, he enshrined his legacy as getting nothing good accomplished. Simply kicking the can down the road is never going to work.

Mr. Biden: “Read MY lips. Shut the shit DOWN!”

I’ll respect Biden forever if he follows through.

by Anonymousreply 118October 6, 2021 11:53 AM

Except Obama gave us the only major health care reform since LBJ which has positively affected tens of millions. That isn’t nothing. Obama rescued the fucking economy from going off the cliff. He rescued our auto industry. Just “little” shit like that. The other side? Just tax cut after tax cut after tax cut for the rich.

by Anonymousreply 119October 6, 2021 12:01 PM

Nothing in Sinema’s past, as an open bisexual who started her career in the Green Party, suggests she is a secret Republican. The easiest answer also seems the most likely, which is that she is an attention who’re who fancies herself as an Arizona maverick. She is misreading the room, but lots of non-stupid people do that.

by Anonymousreply 120October 6, 2021 12:58 PM

Sinema reportedly called herself a libertarian early in her career and for a long time refused to join the Democratic Party. I think it's perfectly plausible that she's never been a true leftist or liberal or Democrat, but just found herself in those positions momentarily and went with it to continue to get elected.

[quote]Long before she became one of the Democratic caucus’s most centrist members, Sinema was so liberal she refused to even join the party.

[quote]Even back then Sinema could sometimes be hard to pin down. Rees, who praised her co-star as “a delight—and a very talented actor,” recalls Sinema describing herself as a “libertarian.” A spokesperson claimed during one of her congressional campaigns that she had joined the Green Party because she was interested in sustainability. The play’s program identified her simply as a city council candidate who “loves shoes and purses and hates macrame owls.”

[quote]Politically speaking, Sinema was still on the fringe. When she ran for state legislature in 2002—this time as an independent—she blamed her defeat on the local Democratic Party, which she said had told voters she was “too extreme for central Phoenix.”

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by Anonymousreply 121October 6, 2021 1:45 PM

Sinema went to BYU. She is a moron. She went to arizona state after that (a party school). She is not a smart person. Now, she is a corrupt person.

She is going to get primaried because the democratic organizations are saying they are not going to work for her. She is toast. It boggles the mind to explain what she is doing and thinking.

by Anonymousreply 122October 6, 2021 10:10 PM

Infuriating

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by Anonymousreply 123October 8, 2021 4:12 AM

Shut this shit down, Biden!

by Anonymousreply 124October 8, 2021 12:39 PM

She supports a 60% threshold for votes in the Senate (the filibuster). She opposes infrastructure spending ($3.1 trillion over 10 years). What more is there to be said? She's a jackass, or maybe intoxicated with her own pathetic power.

by Anonymousreply 125October 8, 2021 1:26 PM

It sounds like the programs most likely to be cut to appease her are things that will devastate HER CONSTITUENTS THE MOST (?)

[bold] The Arizona senator, who started in politics as an environmentalist, is one of two centrist Democrats who could make or break a spending bill at the center of President Biden’s legislative agenda. [/bold]

Ms. Sinema’s demand to cut spending on climate provisions in the budget bill could force Democrats to cut or shrink programs designed to help poor communities adapt to climate change as well as the help companies adjust as the economy transitions away from fossil fuels to clean energy.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi insisted in a letter to colleagues this week that the climate programs would remain. “The climate crisis is a health issue, jobs issue, national security issue and a moral issue to pass the planet on to future generations in a responsible way,” Ms. Pelosi wrote. “This challenge must be addressed with justice for vulnerable communities, who have been hit first and hardest by the climate crisis.”

[...]

[quote] ...include a number of programs designed to help poor people adapt to the destructive impacts of climate change, as well as $30 billion for a “Green Bank” to help communities finance construction of solar panels and electric vehicle charging stations, and $30 billion to create a “Civilian Climate Corps” that would hire young adults to work in climate mitigation and adaptation, with half coming from communities of color.

[quote] Another possible contender for the chopping block could be a $10 billion program to help rural electric cooperatives, which supply electricity to over 40 million people in rural communities. The money would aim to ease the price spikes that those rural residents could see in their power bills as the cooperatives make the switch from buying coal-fired power to wind and solar. Other potential cuts could include a $13 billion program to build new electric vehicle charging stations — including $1 billion to ensure that those stations are built in lower-income areas.

[quote] “Absent programs like that, the economic transition to different energy sources will be less even and equitable,” Mr. Coequyt said. “There will be communities that can’t take advantage of the new technologies for a whole bunch of different reasons.”

[quote] Cutting assistance to local communities would also undermine popular support for a transition to a clean energy economy, experts say. “Some of the programs that are intended to reach into rural and low-income communities are really important to maintaining the political coalition for this,” said Dallas Burtraw, an analyst for Resources for the Future, a nonpartisan research organization focused on energy and environmental policy. “It could be both an economic and a political problem if those communities are left behind.”

[quote] Scientists and environmental activists in Arizona say those cuts would end up hurting Ms. Sinema’s constituents.

[...]

[quote] Arizona needs federal help to grapple with a hotter climate, he said. “We need the work force,” Mr. Garfin said. “We need the funding. Many communities in Arizona lack the budget or expertise to do this. It requires real money. And it’s super important for Arizona.”

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by Anonymousreply 126October 8, 2021 10:36 PM
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by Anonymousreply 127October 8, 2021 11:15 PM

AOC has a new challenger.

Oh, dear.

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by Anonymousreply 128October 9, 2021 1:43 AM

[quote] The most robust version of this plan to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices would bring in some $500 billion of revenue at the expense of the pharmaceutical industry. It’s one of the most popular policies on the Democrats’ menu of options and many party strategists believe Democrats owe their House majority to this issue.

[quote] But we’re told that Democrats would be lucky if they managed to convince Sinema to support a version of drug pricing reform that raises even $200 billion. That’s not enough to fund the expansion of Medicare benefits that Sen. BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vt.) wants or the expansion of the ACA that Speaker NANCY PELOSI wants.

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by Anonymousreply 129October 14, 2021 1:19 PM

So she's against Medicare's negotiating drug prices, an astronomically popular policy?

Let's drop the label "moderate" for this freak; she's just a stubborn, contrarian right-winger.

by Anonymousreply 130October 14, 2021 1:34 PM

Agree r130. Sick of everyone treating her and Manchin like the "sensible center" when they're just being a couple of weird and stupid dingbats.

by Anonymousreply 131October 14, 2021 1:38 PM

The only, single reason she claimed to be a democrat is because she was an occasional carpet muncher. And the DUMS fell for it. Well….if SINema (can’t help that obvious zinger) can demonstrate her DUM carpet munching on live TV, then we can let her win. But we will have to “confirm” her Democrat wings FIRST!

There, I said it.

by Anonymousreply 132October 14, 2021 2:53 PM

She's bought and paid for by Pharma...

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by Anonymousreply 133October 15, 2021 11:04 PM

He's bought and paid for by fossil fuels:

[bold] The West Virginia Democrat told the White House he is firmly against a clean electricity program that is the muscle behind the president’s plan to battle climate change. [/bold]

For weeks, Democratic leaders have vowed that strong climate change provisions — specifically, the clean electricity program — would be at the heart of the package. Progressive Democrats held rallies chanting “No climate, no deal!”

Mr. Manchin, who has personal financial ties to the coal industry, had initially intended to write the details of the program as the chairman of the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources. Mr. Manchin was considering a clean electricity program that would reward utilities for switching from coal to natural gas, which is less polluting but still emits carbon dioxide and can leak methane, another greenhouse gas. Mr. Manchin’s home state, West Virginia, is one of the nation’s top producers of coal and gas.

But in recent days, Mr. Manchin indicated to the administration that he was now completely opposed to a clean electricity program, people familiar with the discussions said. Editors’ Picks

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Push to Improve Sex Ed in Australia Comes From 10,000 Miles Away As a result, White House staffers are scrambling to calculate the impact on emissions from other climate measures in the bill, including tax incentives for renewable energy firms and tax credits for consumers who purchase electric vehicles. Unlike a clean electricity program, tax incentives tend to expire after a set period of time, and do not have the market-shifting power of a more durable strategy.

During a year of record and deadly droughts, wildfires, storms and floods that scientists say are worsened by climate change, Mr. Biden has sought to seed policies across the federal government to significantly lower the country’s greenhouse gas emissions — largely carbon dioxide and methane. He has pledged to the rest of the world that the United States will cut its emissions by 50 percent from 2005 levels by 2030.

In two weeks, Mr. Biden will face other world leaders at a major United Nations climate change conference in Glasgow, Scotland, where he had hoped to point to the clean electricity program as evidence that the United States, the world’s largest historic emitter of planet-warming pollution, was serious about cutting its emissions and leading a global effort to fight climate change.

The rest of the world remains deeply wary of the United States’ commitment to tackling global warming after four years in which former President Donald J. Trump openly mocked the science of climate change and enacted policies that encouraged more drilling and burning of fossil fuels.

[...]

Several other climate provisions remain in the bill, at least for now, including about $300 billion to extend existing tax credits for utilities, commercial businesses and homeowners that use or generate electricity from zero-carbon sources such as wind and solar and $32 billion in tax credits for individuals who purchase electric vehicles. It could also include $13.5 billion for electric-car charging stations and $9 billion to update the electric grid, making it more conducive to transmitting wind and solar power, and $17.5 billion to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from federal buildings and vehicles. But, analysts say, while those spending programs will help make it easier and cheaper for the U.S. economy to transition to a less polluting future, they are unlikely to lead to the same kind of rapid transformation brought by the clean electricity program.

It is also possible that Democrats may try to push through the clean electricity program as a stand-alone bill — but the timeline for doing so is narrowing, with the 2022 midterm elections approaching.

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by Anonymousreply 134October 16, 2021 12:32 AM

These two, Manchin and Sinema, are WHORES and Traitors. They are raking in the cash from Fossil Fuels and Big Pharma. This is during the massive oil leaked from a repeat pipeline violator (Amplify Energy) and an unprecedent health crisis, a PANDEMIC.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING?

by Anonymousreply 135October 16, 2021 1:59 AM

An asinine editorial in the NYT sees Sinema as a principled opponent of "dysfunction" in government and suggests she leave the Democrats but still caucus with them. More likely she'll make a big, smug switch to the Republicans and then leave the Senate in 2025 for some right-wing think tank where she can pal around with conservatives and capitalize on her "centrist" cred.

by Anonymousreply 136October 16, 2021 2:46 AM

[quote] It’s also notable how Manchin counts himself and Senator Sinema with the Republicans in this statement to reach fifty-two.

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by Anonymousreply 137October 16, 2021 4:39 AM

Manchin is shrewd. And perhaps selfish. He is doing exactly what he needs to get re-elected in West Virginia, which is to loudly distance himself from National Democrats and progressives. I fear he will ultimately decide he needs to switch parties to survive

by Anonymousreply 138October 16, 2021 4:58 AM

Even if it means taking half a loaf, I hope the progressives cave. And before the Virginia election. It’s the best they’re going to get with their numbers.

by Anonymousreply 139October 16, 2021 4:59 AM

R138, as long as West Virginia has been the rubiest of reds, I think Manchin would’ve long ago changed parties if that was in the cards.

by Anonymousreply 140October 16, 2021 5:04 AM

WV has only been ruby red since about 2004-2008

by Anonymousreply 141October 16, 2021 5:13 AM

And that’s been a number of election cycles, R141.

by Anonymousreply 142October 16, 2021 5:16 AM

You do realize, R139, that "progressives" in this case mean the vast majority of Democratic—and even independent—voters, not just in Congress but in the country as a whole. This is two Senators thwarting extremely popular programs. Don't dignify them as "moderates."

by Anonymousreply 143October 16, 2021 1:09 PM

R143, I can count &, however, unsatisfactory as it may be, I can see we don't get to 50 without Manchin & Sinema.

by Anonymousreply 144October 16, 2021 1:32 PM

So does the Queen

[bold] Hot Mic Catches Queen Elizabeth Tearing Into World Leaders On Climate Change: They Talk, They Don’t Do [/bold]

[quote] Queen Elizabeth II is not amused. Britain’s monarch has hit out world leaders who “talk” but they “don’t do” on climate change, remarks that have been interpreted as expressing a degree of exasperation at possible no-shows for the upcoming COP26 climate conference. Her remarks weren’t meant for public consumption — this is the queen, after all, an expert at giving nothing away — but were picked up on a microphone.

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by Anonymousreply 145October 17, 2021 4:19 PM

The Progressives have indicated that it is better to get nothing at all if they can’t get everything they want. For being so childish, they’ll get nothing.

by Anonymousreply 146October 17, 2021 4:37 PM

That’s literally the Manchin/Sinema playbook right now R146, but sure, keep pretending the progressives (who have already compromised so much that the package as almost identical to what Manchin said he wanted) are the problem.

by Anonymousreply 147October 17, 2021 4:41 PM

Huh, R147?!? Manchin & Sinema have already agreed to the bipartisan infrastructure deal. If the progressives were seriously going to take their ball with them (which they’re not, I trust), we’d be assured of getting nothing! Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, progressives, and get what you can out of Manchin & Sinema & sell the hell out of it to the public.

by Anonymousreply 148October 17, 2021 5:24 PM

I’m happy with the reportage that, with less than the $3.5 trillion to work with, Biden has decided to opt for a shorter time window until the benefits were to lapse than for reducing the number of programs. Make a possible future Republican government try to terminate existing benefits. If Medicare expansion is still in the offing, it’s also politically smart to add vision & dental care rather than to expand health benefits to the red states. The Dems wouldn’t appreciably benefit from anything they do to help red state voters.

by Anonymousreply 149October 17, 2021 5:45 PM

Again, on terminology: given that public support for this bill is so high, its supporters are really the moderates or centrists (not strictly progressives), and the two D senators who keep insisting on further compromises are to the right (like the Rs).

Only in the deeply skewed Senate are Manchin and Sinema (both bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists) considered the political center.

by Anonymousreply 150October 17, 2021 5:49 PM

The polling numbers of late haven’t been so universally rosy, R150, especially as to the size of the initial package.

by Anonymousreply 151October 17, 2021 6:05 PM

[quote] Manchin is shrewd. And perhaps selfish. He is doing exactly what he needs to get re-elected in West Virginia, which is to loudly distance himself from National Democrats and progressives. I fear he will ultimately decide he needs to switch parties to survive

Machin is a fraud who cares only about enriching himself and his family. Biden's agenda is much more popular with his constituents than he is. Even taxing the rich is popular with West Virginians. Voting Rights Legislation is also popular with his state. He supports nothing but what benefits him and his wealthy donors.

[quote] The Progressives have indicated that it is better to get nothing at all if they can’t get everything they want. For being so childish, they’ll get nothing.

1. This is not Progressive Democrats agenda, This is President Biden and the Democratic Party's Build Back Better Agenda. President Biden of course supports his own agenda and the vast majority of Congressional Democrats and the majority of Americans also support the agenda.

2. No Republicans support any of it, including the pieces they helped carve off to create the "bi partisan" bill. Manchin and Sinema carved off the pieces that their big donors will tolerate and potentially profit from. Manchin and Sinema support only the interests of their corpoarte donors. They continue to use the excuse of "bipartisanship" to block and obstruct things that they themselves claim to support and things that their constituents overwhelmingly support. They both are frauds who work only for their wealthy donors.

3. For weeks now, the President , the Democratic Party, progressives and Democratic constituents have begged Manchin and Sinema to tell everyone what exactly they want. Democrats have said over and over we can negotiate the price tag. Just tell us what you want. The same to senators who were more than happy to work with Republicans to negotiate a "bi partisan" bill (that now no Republicans support) refuse to work with what is supposed to be their own party. 2 senators get to block what the President, Congressional Democrats, The Democratic Party and the vast majority of Americans from achieving progress.

4. We spend 700 billion a yr on the military. Yet we cannot afford to invest 3 trillion over 10 yrs in dental and vison for senior citizens , childcare and anything else that actually benefits the majority of the country. Give me a fucking break

by Anonymousreply 152October 17, 2021 7:44 PM

Exclusive: As Congress debates, most Americans back Biden's trillion-dollar spending bills

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by Anonymousreply 153October 17, 2021 7:46 PM

In deep red West Virginia, Biden’s $3.5tn spending proposal is immensely popular Working-class people – even Trump voters – understand the Build Back Better plan will benefit them

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by Anonymousreply 154October 17, 2021 7:53 PM

No matter the popularity, it ain't happening, so we'll just have to resign ourselves to the best deal the Senate obstructionists will allow. Hopefully, that deal can be done before the last of the Virginia vote.

by Anonymousreply 155October 17, 2021 8:09 PM

[quote] R77, Manchin most certainly didn’t win his election in WV because he was a Democrat. He one on his own very independent brand.

[quote] Manchin has been a consistent vote for the Democrats. And, unlike ALL the Senate Republicans, he is on board for voting for much of the human infrastructure bill that is being incorporated into reconciliation. I get the criticism of Sinema, a senator from a purple state, but this criticism of Manchin, a senator from the MOST red state in the union absolutely confounds me & tells me that most DLers are politically ignorant.

[quote] Good question, R98. It points to the fact that the Dems may not have the luxury of time when it comes to legislating or getting their judges confirmed. We could overnight see a 51-49 GQP majority.

[quote] That you're harping on Manchin is per se evidence of your cluelessness. Whatever, and I mean WHATEVER, we get out of a DEMOCRATIC Senator from West Virginia should be considered utter gravy.

[quote] He may be a corporate whore, R111, but ain’t we lucky we got him. Good times.

[quote] Even if it means taking half a loaf, I hope the progressives cave. And before the Virginia election. It’s the best they’re going to get with their numbers.

[quote] R138, as long as West Virginia has been the rubiest of reds, I think Manchin would’ve long ago changed parties if that was in the cards.

[quote] And that’s been a number of election cycles, R141.

[quote] R143, I can count &, however, unsatisfactory as it may be, I can see we don't get to 50 without Manchin & Sinema.

[quote] Huh, R147?!? Manchin & Sinema have already agreed to the bipartisan infrastructure deal. If the progressives were seriously going to take their ball with them (which they’re not, I trust), we’d be assured of getting nothing! Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, progressives, and get what you can out of Manchin & Sinema & sell the hell out of it to the public.

[quote] I’m happy with the reportage that, with less than the $3.5 trillion to work with, Biden has decided to opt for a shorter time window until the benefits were to lapse than for reducing the number of programs. Make a possible future Republican government try to terminate existing benefits. If Medicare expansion is still in the offing, it’s also politically smart to add vision & dental care rather than to expand health benefits to the red states. The Dems wouldn’t appreciably benefit from anything they do to help red state voters.

[quote] The polling numbers of late haven’t been so universally rosy, R150, especially as to the size of the initial package.

[quote] No matter the popularity, it ain't happening, so we'll just have to resign ourselves to the best deal the Senate obstructionists will allow. Hopefully, that deal can be done before the last of the Virginia vote.

Fuck Off Troll!

by Anonymousreply 156October 17, 2021 8:23 PM

When you check your meds, R156, you might even realize that we're on the same side of the political divide.

by Anonymousreply 157October 17, 2021 8:34 PM

r154, I know you trust that people won’t actually read the article you linked, or maybe you didn’t read it, but the article refers to a survey of members of some organization, not a poll.

“When the nonpartisan nonprofit WorkMoney surveyed more than 50,000 of its 2 million members nationwide, it found 81% of respondents said they supported this plan.”

“according to the survey, 80% of more than 800 people surveyed in his home state believe he should vote to pass the bill.”

It wasn’t even a survey of the general population and it’s just the results of those who responded, which we don’t even know how many there were out of those who were surveyed.

by Anonymousreply 158October 18, 2021 12:50 AM

It’s funny how often journalists think they are supporting a cause with the examples they provide, but they actually undercut it. From the Guardian article:

“Masters and her husband recently took out a loan to repair the roof on their house, only to lose the home in a fire. They did not have insurance, so they are still paying on the loan. The Child Tax Credit payment she receives each month for her nine-year-old son covers that loan every month.”

So we are supposed to support the Child Tax Credit so irresponsible people can abuse the program by using the money not for childcare expenses, as it’s supposed to be used, but rather to pay off a home repair loan?

by Anonymousreply 159October 18, 2021 12:56 AM

More and more I am feeling that Mancin's primary assignment must be to generate media stories in the hopes that they make this administration look bad rather than making one, miserable, greedy, redneck look like an obstructionist.

If you missed R152, go back and read it again. 100% all of that.

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by Anonymousreply 160October 18, 2021 3:52 AM

That’s a positive development to have the Child Tax Credit only going to lower income people and people who work.

by Anonymousreply 161October 18, 2021 3:57 AM

In this context, does "voted out" mean

PROSECUTED?

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by Anonymousreply 162October 18, 2021 4:29 AM

This bought-off politician tactic is NOT going to be functional at a certain point=NOW! There is so much shit-talk about Sinema that she must know her ass is grass. I fng hope they(Colorado) can recall her ass!

by Anonymousreply 163October 18, 2021 12:45 PM

You have been sold a bill of goods.

by Anonymousreply 164October 18, 2021 12:51 PM

There’s going to be reckoning fer sure!

by Anonymousreply 165October 18, 2021 12:55 PM

LOOK, it's a shitshow BUT it's better than the last one.

Happy?

by Anonymousreply 166October 18, 2021 1:32 PM

Look,

It's not a shitshow. It is two pieces of shit who are replicating the pathetic behaviors of the last administration.

We must get rid of them just as we got rid of the last administration.

by Anonymousreply 167October 18, 2021 1:48 PM

[quote]I fng hope they(Colorado) can recall her ass!

Why are you blaming us?

by Anonymousreply 168October 18, 2021 2:02 PM

[quote] We must get rid of them just as we got rid of the last administration.

You've gotta be a troll if you think it's a smart political move for Dems to get rid of Manchin from West Bugtussle.

by Anonymousreply 169October 18, 2021 2:03 PM

No, R169.

I didn't mean today when dining services takes out the waste after lunch.

I'm thinking in terms of what is best for the country and not just party. Manchin, Sinema, obstructionist Rep Golden in Maine, the showboating Rep from Florida, the NJ Democrats who only vote the interests of Pharma, and several of the progressive reps who think social media is interchangeable with actual legislation... They all gotta go. Eliminating corrupt (and/or inept) members of Congress means eliminating all corrupt members of Congress.

OTOH: one party will be damaged while the other absolutely decimated.

Related: I believe this is why a GOP senator presents the credible argument that we should eliminate the geritocracy we are struggling with. On the surface, I think he's attempting to indite President Biden. But the side benefit would also be to take out all of the Democratic Leadership as Pelosi, Hoyer, Clyburn, & Leahy are all 80-ish. Not to mention DiFi. Yeah, McTurtle is older than Methuselah but, by and large, the GOP caucus is considerably more vibrant as toxic "strength" is one of their calling cards.

I believe a nation of our size and wealth should neither be hobbled by greed or hubris. And we need to acknowledge those factors as we seek to change moving forward.

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by Anonymousreply 170October 18, 2021 2:28 PM

West Virginia Ranks

1st in the nation in opioid use

1st in the nation in deaths per capita

2nd in poverty

2nd in obesity

45th in education

47 in vaccination

And dead last in Infrastructure

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by Anonymousreply 171October 18, 2021 10:51 PM

[quote]2nd in obesity

I believe they're just across the border from DL fave Simply Sara. She's in Kentucky, isn't she?

by Anonymousreply 172October 19, 2021 12:29 AM

Can someone please secretly insert a long needle into the dick of wheelchair jockey Madison Cawthorn on live TV to see if it has any nerve endings?

by Anonymousreply 173October 19, 2021 1:44 PM

R167 Yeah, no. My comment is about the Biden presidency so far--not just this--and I voted for him and probably will again. But objectively, It HAS been a shit show

The thing is...if Trump runs again, it's over.

by Anonymousreply 174October 19, 2021 2:16 PM

[quote] [R167] Yeah, no. My comment is about the Biden presidency so far--not just this--and I voted for him and probably will again. But objectively, It HAS been a shit show The thing is...if Trump runs again, it's over.

"The thing is" your opinion is subjective, not objective. If Trump run's again its over for Republicans. With his refusal to admit defeat, outside of the Trump cult, opposition to him has only grown. Republicans are now begging Republican voters to support Democrats in 2022 and 2024.

by Anonymousreply 175October 19, 2021 4:39 PM

[quote] But objectively, It HAS been a shit show

Agree. He has got to go.

by Anonymousreply 176October 19, 2021 6:24 PM

If we thought Biden was the only one from the primaries who could’ve won last year, might, heaven forfend, another Joe, Manchin be the only one who could won next time?!

by Anonymousreply 177October 19, 2021 7:24 PM

Taking into account that this source is to the left of the Democratic caucus, I this think this is another example of how we need to clean house completely before we can get anything good.

(Ask Nancy Kerrigan how long it takes to recover...)

[quote] what happened was Menendez took $600,000 in bribes to help a crooked doctor defraud Medicare. he almost got convicted too, which the Supreme Court has made near impossible

[quote] as somebody was saying the real barrier to "popularism" here is the corrupt and/or stupid Dem establishment. Schumer personally recruited Sinema (then the most conservative Dem in the House). the whole party circled the wagons around Menendez

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by Anonymousreply 178October 19, 2021 7:28 PM

Virginia Gov. candidate Glenn Youngkin: "On Day 1, we will teach history, but I will ban Critical Race Theory."

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by Anonymousreply 179October 19, 2021 8:15 PM

BREAKING: A Glenn Youngkin campaign strategist just had an outburst and stormed out of an interview with @AP when Youngkin was asked whether he would sign an abortion ban after 6 weeks of pregnancy in Virginia. Youngkin refused to answer.

by Anonymousreply 180October 19, 2021 8:15 PM

[quote] “The president is the inspirer, he is the closer,” @RepJayapal tells reporters after Progressives’ chat with @POTUS today

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by Anonymousreply 181October 19, 2021 9:44 PM

[quote] “Why should my granddaughter be punished because of my disability?” That’s the question West Virginia resident Melissa Boyles would ask Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) and any other politicians advocating work requirements for Democrats’ child benefit program — conditions that would throw Boyles’s granddaughter under the bus.

[quote] Boyles, 62, is among an unsung generation of Americans caring for their grandchildren.

[...]

[quote] Grandparents are often neither physically nor financially prepared to raise another child. Some are still working, but most grandparents responsible for their grandchildren are no longer in the labor force. They’re often retired, disabled or both. Such is the case of Boyles, who lives with her husband, Michael, in Clarksburg, W.Va.

[quote] Both spouses had worked, but now Melissa, a former house cleaner and hospice worker, has a herniated disk and some psychological issues exacerbated by the sudden death of her son in 2005; Michael, who worked at the union local, has had multiple strokes and has reduced lung function due to complications from bypass surgery.

[quote] Nevaeh, like many children, landed with her grandparents after a series of traumas: first the loss of her father, when she was a baby; then her mother, when Nevaeh was a teen; then unsafe conditions living with another relative, including inconsistent access to food. Boyles wasn’t sure how she’d manage another mouth to feed. Especially since paying off her mortgage — which she thought had been financially responsible — rendered her ineligible for food stamps, thanks to the program’s asset limits. Boyles began receiving a monthly caretaker’s stipend of about $400 from the state, but it wasn’t enough to cover her additional expenses.

[quote] “She needs clothes. She needs things for school. She needs shoes for her feet. She needs food in her belly,” Boyles told me.

[...]

[quote] Then, this year, a godsend: Lawmakers temporarily expanded the existing child tax credit into a more generous benefit, which would be disbursed monthly. They also made the benefit available to those suffering the most from poverty, including those who make too little money to file a tax return. Nevaeh’s family became eligible for $250 per month, no strings attached.

[...]

[quote] But Manchin has indicated that he’ll vote for extending the program only if, among other things, beneficiaries prove they are working.

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by Anonymousreply 182October 19, 2021 10:25 PM

Love Sherrod Brown.

Hope he got the message through.

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by Anonymousreply 183October 19, 2021 10:37 PM

Most requirements have multiple exceptions. When any politician says they are for a work requirement, they are not going to stand there and also list all the minutiae of the exceptions.

by Anonymousreply 184October 19, 2021 11:34 PM

R175 Not sure what the point of your opening was--other than being a dick--but yeah, YOUR opinion is ALSO just that, but thanks for teaching the class how the world works.

[quote]Republicans are now begging Republican voters to support Democrats in 2022 and 2024.

Speaking of pulling shit out of your ass, you should probably put this back where you got it because it’s fucking ridiculous. Also? if you think Trump doesn’t have a remote chance of winning after the gazillion COVID variants, vaccine mandates, immigration, and the faux concern over Afghanistan, you need to wake the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 185October 20, 2021 2:39 PM

^^^.

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by Anonymousreply 186October 20, 2021 2:44 PM

I can't decide which is worse, selling out the most vulnerable of your fellow citizens for DonorDollars or genuinely believing that your peers are weak, lazy and exploitive.

Either way, GOP must be relegated to the role of consultant and not be allowed to regain power.

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by Anonymousreply 187October 20, 2021 2:49 PM

[quote]“A group of anti-Trump Republicans on Thursday will endorse a slate of Democratic lawmakers facing tough races in next year’s midterm elections, in a bid to stop the Republican Party from retaking control of Congress.”

A GROUP OF

Ooh, you've got a problem with embellishment, don't you?

by Anonymousreply 188October 20, 2021 3:04 PM

[quote] Ooh, you've got a problem with embellishment, don't you?

MILES TAYLOR

EVAN MCMULLIN

MINDY FINN, DC

FMR. WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, NY

FMR. CONGRESSWOMAN, BARBARA COMSTOCK, VA

FMR. GOVERNOR OF MA, BILL WELD, MA

AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN, BOB WORSLEY, AZ

MINORITY LEADER, CA STATE ASSEMBLY, CHAD MAYES, CA

FMR. CONGRESSMAN, CHARLES DJOU, HI

FMR. CONGRESSMAN, CHARLIE DENT, PA*

FMR. WA STATE GOP CHAIRMAN, CHRIS VANCE, WA

FMR. GOVERNOR OF NJ, CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, NJ

FMR. CONGRESSWOMAN, CLAUDINE SCHNEIDER, RI

FMR. CONGRESSMAN, DENVER RIGGLEMAN, VA

CONSERVATIVE ATTORNEY & WRITER, GEORGE CONWAY, DC

FMR. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY AND AFFAIRS, JIM GLASSMAN, VA

FMR. CONGRESSMAN, JIM KOLBE, AZ

INVESTOR AND POLITICAL ACTIVIST, JOHN KINGSTON, MA

FMR. U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION, MARY PETERS, AZ

FMR. CHAIRMAN, RNC, MICHAEL STEELE, MD

POLITICAL STRATEGIST, MIKE MADRID, CA

CEO, OCEAN STL CONSULTING, REAR ADMIRAL(RET) TIM GALLAUDET, CA

POLITICAL STRATEGIST, SUSAN DEL PERCIO, NY

POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, TARA SETMAYER, DC

BUSINESS LEADER & CONSERVATIONIST, THEODORE ROOSEVELT IV, NY

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by Anonymousreply 189October 20, 2021 3:17 PM

SO progressive.

Thanks a lot.

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by Anonymousreply 190October 20, 2021 3:21 PM

I already have a college degree.

by Anonymousreply 191October 20, 2021 3:29 PM

R189 What a waste of time with all that formatting, but YES, that's a GROUP of Republicans. Your post implies that Republicans are asking voters to support Democrats in 2022 and 2024.

THAT'S embellishing, dude. But hey, It's okay. You're only human.

by Anonymousreply 192October 20, 2021 3:41 PM

[quote] But hey, It's okay. You're only human.

Is this meant to imply that you are superhuman and better than me?

Spoiler alert: You're not.

by Anonymousreply 193October 20, 2021 3:51 PM

From the "Manchin Is Corrupt AF' thread:

[quote] Mitch McConnell is 10x smarter than Joe. Joe is sloppy with his moves. Mitch is slick.

[quote] The rethug donors have so much dirt on Joe because he is an oaf. He has smart handlers but he himself is a jock and sort of dumb. He is well coached but Joe makes the decisions at the end of the day and it gets him in trouble and comprises him. He is greedy.

[quote] So they do they best they can to cover up his faulty ethics but the reason he is still around because he had cover from democrats.

[quote] But he is losing that cover and with enough pressure he could resign by the end of the year.

[quote] This scares democrats in Washington for obvious reasons. Joe could do one of 2 things: turn rethug or retire and be replaced with a rethug.

[quote] And so here we are. A house of cards. What will the American people do about this?

And THIS is why Democrats haven't nuked the filibuster.

[quote] It is unclear whether in this scenario Manchin would end up caucusing with the Democrats, which would allow them to continue to control the Senate, or side with the Republicans and place the Senate in GOP hands. In either event, he would hold great sway over this half of Congress.

[...]

[quote] Manchin has repeatedly said that he has a significant philosophical difference with most of his fellow Democrats. He has told reporters that he believes major programs in the Build Back Better bill would move the United States toward an “entitlement mentality” and that he cannot accept that. In a recent meeting with Biden, Manchin told the president that he sees government as a partner with the public not the ultimate provider

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by Anonymousreply 194October 20, 2021 6:37 PM

If Manchin caucuses with the Republicans, we'll go into the midterms with a Republican-dominated Congress and Republican obstructionism (against very popular Democratic programs) that Democrats can run against—let's hope they will.

by Anonymousreply 195October 20, 2021 7:32 PM

[quote] LOOK, it's a shitshow BUT it's better than the last one. Happy?

[quote] R167 Yeah, no. My comment is about the Biden presidency so far--not just this--and I voted for him and probably will again. But objectively, It HAS been a shit show The thing is...if Trump runs again, it's over.

[quote] R175 Not sure what the point of your opening was--other than being a dick--but yeah, YOUR opinion is ALSO just that, but thanks for teaching the class how the world works. Speaking of pulling shit out of your ass, you should probably put this back where you got it because it’s fucking ridiculous. Also? if you think Trump doesn’t have a remote chance of winning after the gazillion COVID variants, vaccine mandates, immigration, and the faux concern over Afghanistan, you need to wake the fuck up.

[quote] A GROUP OF Ooh, you've got a problem with embellishment, don't you? R189 What a waste of time with all that formatting, but YES, that's a GROUP of Republicans. Your post implies that Republicans are asking voters to support Democrats in 2022 and 2024. THAT'S embellishing, dude. But hey, It's okay. You're only human.

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by Anonymousreply 196October 21, 2021 3:13 AM

R193 Wait...whut?

by Anonymousreply 197October 21, 2021 10:47 AM

[bold] “Democrats were out desperately trying to help her win the seat, and now we feel like, what was it for?” “Nobody knows what she is thinking because she doesn’t tell anybody anything. It’s very sad to think that someone who you worked for that hard to get elected is not even willing to listen. [/bold]

”Five veterans tapped to advise Senator Kyrsten Sinema, an Arizona Democrat, resigned from their posts on Thursday, publicly accusing her of “hanging your constituents out to dry” in the latest sign of growing hostility toward a centrist who has emerged as a key holdout on President Biden’s agenda.

In a scathing letter obtained by The New York Times, the veterans took Ms. Sinema to task for her refusal to abolish the filibuster and her opposition to parts of Mr. Biden’s multitrillion-dollar social safety net, education, climate and tax plan, stances that have stymied some of his top priorities.

“You have become one of the principal obstacles to progress, answering to big donors rather than your own people,” the veterans wrote in a letter that is to be featured in a new advertisement by Common Defense, a progressive veterans’ activist group that has targeted Ms. Sinema.

“We shouldn’t have to buy representation from you, and your failure to stand by your people and see their urgent needs is alarming,” they added. The resignations add to a crescendo of anger and pressure that Ms. Sinema is facing from erstwhile allies who say they are perplexed by her recent tactics. She has resisted major elements of Democrats’ sprawling social safety net and climate bill, including raising individual income and corporate tax rates to pay for it. Because Democrats control the Senate with only 50 votes, even one defection could spell defeat for the measure, giving Ms. Sinema outsize influence to determine what can be included.

Ms. Sinema has also steadfastly opposed changing the Senate’s filibuster rule, which effectively requires 60 votes to move forward on any major bill, even as Republicans have used it as a procedural weapon to block voting rights legislation and a bill to avert a federal debt default.

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by Anonymousreply 198October 21, 2021 5:02 PM

[quote] In a scathing letter obtained by The New York Times

= “In a letter sent directly to the NYT by the disgruntled veterans.”

by Anonymousreply 199October 21, 2021 5:18 PM

Guess who, R190

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by Anonymousreply 200October 21, 2021 6:22 PM

She claims that she's "not mysterious" and that she's spelled out all her positions. But what people are criticizing her for is not explaining WHY she's for the filibuster, against negotiating drug prices, etc.—other than the usual pablum about always needing to reach a consensus and so on. She's obviously just a bought and paid for pol who doesn't care about the public.

by Anonymousreply 201October 21, 2021 6:25 PM

Question: if Manchin and Sinema switched parties, and McConnell put up a vote to end the filibuster, would they vote to end it then?

by Anonymousreply 202October 21, 2021 6:42 PM

R202, as Angus King said yesterday, McConnell strong-armed Trump’s insistence that he abolish the filibuster rule.

by Anonymousreply 203October 21, 2021 6:52 PM

R202. You bet your sweet ass those bastards would vote for their BFF Moscow Mitch. Kyrsten Sinema walking past Mitch and patting him on the back so affectionately on the back and then looking back to see if he was noticing her (he wasn't)strutting over to give her pert little curtsy and thumbs down the minimum wage increase, tells me everything I need to know. She is close with the loathsome Andy Biggs and Ted Cruz-she is a Republican plant for the next 4 or so years. After her term is up, she will go to work for Koch Industries or some equally right wing corp.

by Anonymousreply 204October 21, 2021 6:53 PM

What policy measures did the filibuster rule thwart under Trump? I can't think of any. They could've repealed the ACA under reconciliation but couldn't get McCain's 50th vote.

by Anonymousreply 205October 21, 2021 7:42 PM

[quote] They could've repealed the ACA under reconciliation but couldn't get McCain's 50th vote.

The so-called “skinny repeal” that McCain voted against was a pared down version of what the GOP wanted to do. They had to pare it down to fit the reconciliation rules. It only repealed some taxes and made some rule changes. If there were no filibuster, a full repeal and replace could have been attempted, with provisions that McCain, Murkowski, or Collins might have supported.

by Anonymousreply 206October 21, 2021 8:14 PM

They need to reinstate the real filibuster with peeing into milk jugs, etc.

by Anonymousreply 207October 21, 2021 8:19 PM

Gawd, I would love to lock Manchin in a room with her, one of his constituents.

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by Anonymousreply 208October 24, 2021 7:09 PM

As stated before, what stood out in Sinema’s campaign was that she was a democrat from Arizona who claimed she was bisexual. In the minds of most DUMS, a part-time lesbo carpet licker was emblematic of being more progressive. But guess what? It was all a big lie! Sinema is nothing other than the average whore who will sell her vote to the highest bidder. A genuine whore!

by Anonymousreply 209October 25, 2021 2:38 PM

No, R209 (who keeps calling Democrats "DUMS"), what people object to is that she campaigned FOR affordable drug prices, FOR the child tax credit, FOR raising taxes back up on corporations and the superrich, and for other progressive policies that she's now AGAINST. Don't pretend that Democrats supported her on some superficial appearance-based grounds and not on the substance of her platform. She's been dishonest (and bought).

by Anonymousreply 210October 25, 2021 7:06 PM

Why is this thread greyed out now?

by Anonymousreply 211October 25, 2021 9:50 PM

The husband of a friend speaks like this so it shouldn't ever surprise me how clueless the mega wealthy are and yet I still find it shocking every time.

They cannot understand why anyone would ever dare even propose they share THEIR money!

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by Anonymousreply 212October 25, 2021 11:57 PM

All I know or have ever known about Sinema was that during the campaign rundown the night of the election was that it was a very close race between Sinema (D) and her Republican opponent. What I heard on CNN LIVE broadcast was she was a Democrat AND was publicly avowed as bisexual. I don’t know why CNN added that attribute on purpose or not. All I knew instantly was that I wanted her to win. If that makes me guilty of being superficial, then that would be true because I did not know a wit about her before and couldn’t care less otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 213October 26, 2021 1:39 PM

R210. I’d also state that she sounds just like that other liar known as Barrack Obama. I never bought into that oart, but for someone to reveal a personal sexual proclivity that proved to be another complete LIE knotches it up a wee bit.

by Anonymousreply 214October 26, 2021 1:43 PM

part

by Anonymousreply 215October 26, 2021 1:44 PM

R214, was this Obama fellow he Donnald Trump's predecessor?

by Anonymousreply 216October 26, 2021 6:46 PM

{quote] [R210]. I’d also state that she sounds just like that other liar known as Barrack Obama. I never bought into that oart, but for someone to reveal a personal sexual proclivity that proved to be another complete LIE knotches it up a wee bit.

She sounds nothing like President Obama. Being President (and being dependent upon Congress to pass your agenda) is very different from what Sinema is doing. She personally blocking/obstructing the policies that she ran on. President Obama did not block/obstruct his own agenda. He did have to make concessions/compromises to pass legislation. Obviously we would have gladly signed off on his own agenda as/is had Congress had passed everything that he wanted.

by Anonymousreply 217October 26, 2021 8:05 PM

[quote] [[R210]]. I’d also state that she sounds just like that other liar known as Barrack Obama. I never bought into that oart, but for someone to reveal a personal sexual proclivity that proved to be another complete LIE knotches it up a wee bit.

She sounds nothing like President Obama. Being President (and being dependent upon Congress to pass your agenda) is very different from what Sinema is doing. She personally blocking/obstructing the policies that she ran on. President Obama did not block/obstruct his own agenda. He did have to make concessions/compromises to pass legislation. Obviously we would have gladly signed off on his own agenda as/is had Congress had passed everything that he wanted.

by Anonymousreply 218October 26, 2021 8:06 PM

Framework:

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by Anonymousreply 219October 28, 2021 2:53 PM
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