Gay men who spend their lives unpartnered

I don't know OP. I am exactly the same. I am not bipolar and my relationships didn't all end badly but, in every other sense, I am the same. I do worry a lot about getting to 50 alone but have no interest in a long term relationship.

OP, I’m in my late-30’s and haven’t had a serious boyfriend in 10 years. At this very moment I have several Tinder messages that haven’t been responded to because while I enjoy the swiping aspect of the app, the thought of dating exhausts me. I honestly don’t know a single couple whose relationship I envy. Everyone seems to have settled for each other, and few seem to draw happiness from their relationship. I don’t want to be in a relationship just to be in a relationship, so I’ve found it easier to plan on remaining single for the rest of my life.

One thing that does scare me is the prospect of being old and alone. Both my parents and stepparents seem to keep each other going to appointments, seeing the doctor if necessary, and doing social activities to get out of the house. I worry I’ll become a recluse who chokes to death

You’re in your late 30’s! You’re young.

I’m in my mid 30’s.

I think in our 30’s, we experience a bit of a drought. It’s like, people either get married or into serious relationships in their late 20’s, it peak in their 30’s, and then falls apart in their 40’s.

I feel like a lot of the good guys my age or around are just taken right now and the second wind will com when they break up and get divorced in their 40’s.

I mean I don’t know why you feel like this. If you know any old people, you know some are widowed for 20 - 30 years before they die and die alone.

Life partners are NOT guaranteed whatsoever.

I’m 50 and have pretty much always been alone. Didn’t bother me until this year. Although COVID has been alienating for everyone.

I like to travel and have found doing that solo is less fun than it used to be. On the up side, people have stopped asking why I’m not partnered.

I'm forty-one, and have been single nineteen years. I've hooked up a few times during that time, and had a sort of friend with benefits for seven years (we'd only ever see each other two or three times a year, maximum). That ended almost ten years ago.

I'm fine being single, and really am a loner (aside from generally isolating due to depression, and anxiety). I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss close physical contact. I really crave that intimacy more than anything.

Right now, I'm not in any position to offer anyone anything in the way of a relationship, because I'm in an intense period of self-repair and building a life and career. Perhaps with enough hard work, I'll get to that point before I turn fifty. I want that far more than I want a relationship. Time will undoubtedly tell.

I don't get lonely, ever. While I thought I wanted a LTR earlier in my life, I am glad that didn't happen. I am 70, single and happy as a lark, I get to have everything exactly the way I want it, no compromises, no disputes, no hurt feelings. I realize that doesn't work for everyone, but it sure works for me.

I've been partnered and I've been single (mostly single). There are advantages to both, disadvantages to both. There are specific things I miss about having a partner. Traveling, specifically the airport experience, is easier with a partner. Doctor stuff, needing rides from the car mechanic, etc. Costco shopping is preferable with a partner. I now that sounds crazy, but I always wish I had someone with me at Costco. Also, people seem to respect you more when you have a partner.

The best part of being single is being able to eat whatever you want whenever you want. I tend to gain too much weight with a partner. I've been lucky with live-in partners in that most were not junk collectors or hoarders. I'd really, really hate dealing with someone who had collections of things. I'm good with money and would hate to be with someone who wasn't good with money.

WEBMASTER! STEALTH ASPERGERS THREAD!

I'm 42 and have never been in a relationship that lasted longer than a month or two. I go through periods where I want a boyfriend but when I get on the apps I find that there are not many guys that I find physically attractive. Not that I am a prize but if there's no initial spark, what's the point? I enjoy my own company, which is a good thing but I don't know if I have any alternative.

OP., don’t worry about it. I did for years. I thought I was destined to be alone. I ended up meeting my husband at 42, he was 45. We’ve been together 16 years. I hated when people said this to me but there is someone out there for you if you want it and it sounds like you do because you brought it up. I believe there is someone great out there for you.

After 35+ years with my husband my best advice would be to buy a house large enough that you can avoid each other.

Also rent a decent sized villa or apartment when you go on vacation.

Money can solve a lot of the claustrophobia of being in a long term relationship.

I've never been in a relationship and from what I've heard and seen over the years, I'm not missing much.

I think you have to want a partner to get one. This way you start looking at each encounter as a possible relationship vs just a unemotional meeting

I'm 74 and have by and large been alone most of my life, although there have been numerous satisfying relationships. There are indeed advantages to having a partner, and holidays can be a drag, but I've never craved domestic bliss of the kind that means sharing a home and growing old with someone. Maybe because I have met very few couples that I envy. Most seem that they're together out of habit, and some can barely tolerate each other. In short, I think both choices have drawbacks; I've chosen the one that's best for me.

I was in a LTR for 17 years which ended 11 years ago. I just turned 58 and through trial-and-error on various dating apps and even a matchmaker, I've come to the realization that I'm much more content alone. I'm never lonely and quite enjoy traveling and dining alone. When I was younger all I wanted was a partner. Now all I want is to be quietly content and have virtually no drama in my life. If it weren't for this frigging pandemic, my life would be almost perfect.

There’s also something I find fake about relationships

I’ve been in situations where I feel like I’m the sixth or seventh person this guy has said this to or done this with.

Like right now my bisexual ex-boyfriend is doing the same exact things with his new girlfriend that he did with me and the last one.

It’s like that song that’s on the radio “Deja Vu”. She probably feels SO special right now, completely unaware of how predictable and routine he is when he falls in love.

Like we’re both Spotify junkies and I found out he was sending me songs his ex-girlfriend he was cheating on me with songs SHE was listening to and Vice versa. And he’s sending this new one songs from bands I turned him onto.

I hate being involved in that type of stuff. It’s so self absorbed.

Most people project the same fantasies and ideas onto different people over and over again.

I don’t want to be the life long sucker that took the bait.

I have never in my life said “I love you” first because I never meant it. And all the guys that have said “I love you” to me I know say it in every relationship. It’s an obligated step to a serious level. How can you take people seriously? How do you take their romance seriously?

I don’t know, it just turns me off. That’s why I’d rather be alone until someone who I’d say “I love you” to first comes along.

I've never had a relationship, nor do I want one. I have a large extended family and many friends, and I love my time with them, but I love my time alone even more.

Just make sure as you get older and your friends and family start thinning out, that you take steps to preserve the connections with the people that are left and actively seek new friends as well. You don't want to be found dead after 3-4 weeks alone in your apartment.

Well, if that happens, I won't know it!

OP, the people with partners are terrified of being alone, even if that means being in a relationship they don't care for.

Single life is the best.

If you have been single for a long time, it’s difficult to partner up unless you make a concerted effort. The gay scene is also really tiresome and vapid to anyone over 50.

OP I’m bipolar as well. I spent 18 to 30 in a series of really bad relationships and dating the wrong guys. My last relationship was horrific at the end. I’ve spent the last 19 years alone except for dating a guy for a short period of time that was way too young for me. I was bored. I vacillate back-and-forth between wanting a relationship and being afraid to get involved with somebody because of my mental illness. I guess I’ve been alone for so long that I’m afraid to be vulnerable again.

I’m single and my biggest problem is that almost none of my friends are.

You, and any gay person, should absolutely do what's right in your heart and the community should support your decision. There is a problem in the gay male community of self-shaming and having low self esteem when single. I knew a guy who would insult his own appearance and shame himself when he couldn't get a guy. Like if he was on Grindr & some guy left him on "read" or didn't respond to messages, he'd blurt out "Apparently I'm HIDEOUS." Other comments that were really dark. I've had to call out a couple friends who do this. Self-sabotage never works.

Was burned on my last 10 year+ relationship. I don't know if I have another in me. Been single 10 years now. Maybe it was a mistake an I should have found a new one a couple years after the last one.

Try not to care what others think of you . Millions of people are miserable in their relationships. Facebook is fake AF . Try finding a person as a companion first , someone to go to parties etc with . There is someone out there for everyone .

I was in relationships in my 20’s and when the 2nd one ended, I started a new career which was very demanding but has been quite enjoyable and lucrative for 30+ years….I have become even more independent as I have aged and am used to setting my own schedule and not sure how I would adjust to coordination of another guys schedule with mine…..I have my own home and my own $$$ and am pretty much set so it would be hard to put myself in a position to lose any of what I sacrificed 30 years for….sex is easy to find and I have a core group of friends that Inhave known for 30 years….

I feel similar to R15. It’s been 8 years since I separated from my partner of 17 years - and it was pretty awful at the time, boy, you really find out who someone is at the end of a relationship and their family. I haven’t so much as gone on a date or hooked up with somebody. I have my own priorities and really enjoy my life, which is mostly quiet and content with good friends. I’m not adverse to seeing someone - though it would be years before I would ever decide to co-habitat with someone again, if ever. I really treasure what I have which isn’t a lot but it’s mine. (I lost everything in the separation. Everything.) I just don’t have the interest in having another intimate relationship; that may have just died. People can be so duplicitous and cruel; I think because I was raised in an abusive, alcoholic environment I never really got a handle on love and attraction, not in any way that would actually enhance my life. I have my own existence and am capable of loving others but I’m not interested in the wasting anymore time in an intimate relationship; a lot of people are clueless and just going through the motions anyway, they see their partner as some kind of object or appendage, an extension of themselves. So few people really know what love is and it takes a lifetime to truly understand it anyway.

"Single by choice" isn't necessarily a "defense mechanism" or making the best of a bad hand. Not at all.

It could be, of course, but why would anyone think that as an initial reaction?

For my perspective, being partnered is the unusual state; being on one's own is the normal state of things. I married in my mid-fifties now and have been very happy. I had one other serious, live-together relationship of few years that ended ages ago. Other than that I've dated a very few people for more than a few months and being single and unpartnered for most of my adult life.

For me the state of being partnered doesn't hold much appeal in itself. I won't say I never gave the idea any thought, but more out of curiosity than desire; it was never a goal in itself except that it became a goal with a couple of people at different points of my life. I never ruled out being partnered. It would seem foolish to do, just as it is to imagine that one will always be partnered (though certainly some people seem to be in a perpetual state of partnership, albeit a frequently changing one — which for me would be fucking around a lot, which is perfectly fine, but I'm not one who has to be defined as one half of some organism all the time, without interruption.

I would always rather be alone than in bad company, but I crave a nice warm body in my bed.

R28 is on the same exact page as me. I agree with this 100%. I haven't felt the need or desire to be partnered for life with anyone after my late partner died. Decades have passed and I have been in a few relationships that lasted a few months. There comes a point in any relationship where I can see that it won't pen out at all in the long run so I just leave on as good terms as possible. I am alone now. I actually enjoy being alone. Living alone is great and the arrangement I have now, two rooms of my own, a bathroom and patio and a roommate who has her own life and space and whom I interact with only when we feel like it is nice because I know if I faint or something, she will know. Also, it's been nice to have someone to travel and chat with who is like a sister and we even said if we do see layoffs and have to go home in fall, we can rent in Paris for a month or two and share expenses. Otherwise, I can date, hook up, be on my own and have total freedom. If I do find the right man, great. If I don't, so be it.

OP, your post could have been written by me. Word for word.

Single by choice and lack of willing to settle. Set in my ways. But I do -sometimes- long for a companion.

Get a dog, I tell myself.

R31 - that is also me. A few summer hookups while I was travelling were a good release but in general, I also feel unready and uncomfortable to get out and mingle again. Of course I don't like the weight gain but there is so much more...the mental impact of the pandemic, the stress of the possibility of losing my job as it's likely to be outsourced....all this on the heels of illness in the family. I am just working on myself and, figure, if I want sex, it won't be too hard as an exclusive top into older guys to at least get laid.

I didn’t get a partner until I was 39. I had several short term relationships but none of them lasted more than a year. I found these relationships positive because I was relaxed and still myself, you know? I was comfortable making compromises because I genuinely loved these guys and wanted the relationships to work. It also helped that I’ve got a positive attitude and don’t crave privacy although I have many interests that are solitary ones I like the intimacy I have with my partner. The problem generally was that I was living in the Bay Area and didn’t feel entirely comfortable there and that’s the reason these relationships weren’t going to work out. At 38 I moved back, closer to home but chose the college town where my younger gay brother was living. He’s 64 and he’ll be celebrating his 40 anniversary with his husband! I met my partner within two years and we’re happy. In reading some of these earlier posts, it seems that some of the guys writing here aren’t comfortable with sharing, don’t like to compromise and want their privacy. The thing is that you get so much by giving in.

I'd like to be in a relationship, but I want a monogamous one, and it seems like most other gay guys don't.

I'm in my 30s. I have had some short relationships but nothing long lasting. I don't seem to care, rarely respond when people message me. Right now I am happy with my life, I have friends and a pretty decent social life. I like being on my own I think, the idea of sharing my apartment with someone and having them there all the time kinda terrifies me.

And then there's the "Secretary Problem."

Personality disorders.

I'm an only child and GenXer, alone is nothing for me. I enjoy alone. I have never been in a long term relationship because 1) my parents had a shitty marriage and I vowed never to do that to myself; 2) I just don't want to share that much of myself with another person; 3) I just don't need another person in my life to make me feel complete or fulfilled, I'm enough for me.

I know people who go from relationship to relationship (serial monogamists) and they're never happy. I feel sorry for them. If you need to be in a relationship to be happy, then you have problems.

I've been with my partner for 20 years at this point.

Oh how I long to be single again!

I know a few older gay guys and they are loners like the most of the posters. In their younger days they were going from one hook up to another, in parks, train stations etc. When they were in relationship they were promiscous from the beggining, hooking up together, alone. Seems like they didn't believe love and partnership was meant for them. Of course it was very hard for men to live together in Balkans, but still it seems to me they didn't think that it was even a possibility for them and something they deserved.

I'm 51 and the last relationship I had was over 20 years ago. I had very high standards -- I wanted somebody who could appreciate the films of both John Waters and Stanley Kramer, discuss the French Revolution in depth, had the face of Colin Farrell, the dick of Thom Barron, and the ass of Kyle McKenna -- and naturally every man I met came up short. Aside from (very) occasional visits to the baths, online porn became my release, and my focus turned to my career and enjoying myself alone. Ironically, loneliness didn't really hit me until the pandemic, and now I'm ready to get back out and meet somebody. But now I suspect I'm even more set in my ways and would find it next to impossible to make the sacrifices needed for a relationship. And of course my standards are still high, though now I want the face of Miloš Biković, the dick of Zander Craze, and the ass of Anthony Recker.

[quote]somehow unable or unwilling to make the necessary interpersonal sacrifices needed to sustain a long-term romantic attachment

The thing is you don't know what those sacrifices might be until you're in the relationship. There are people who are just fine as friends or casual hookups who turn out to be impossible to deal with once you move in with them and they let their guards down.

R34 Me too. When I love I'm possesive (to a normal extent) and don't want to share and fuck around.

Liza speaks for me . . .

I'm 73 and single after three long term relationships -- each lasted about nine years. Seems to be my limit. The last one ended 20 years ago. I thought I'd get into another one but realized that I was just as happy -- if happy is the actual goal -- alone as I was with others.

As posters have pointed out, there are utilitarian advantages to being a couple -- traveling, doctors appointments, shopping; things that work better with someone else. But the advantages of being single are greater: above all, the freedom to live your life exactly as you want, the freedom to make your own social life without having to worry about your partner's issues, the freedom to be completely yourself.

What I've eventually realized is that being single is like any other choice: you have to learn to be good at it. The people I know who are single and unhappy haven't put the energy into figuring out how to make it work well -- picking friends who take up the slack of a partner, really enjoying solitude, being smart about your life's choices. Being single is something between an art and a craft. You work at it, you make it work for you.

Personally I've never met, nor do I know of any man I believe I could spend the rest of my life in the same house every day. I don't have any negative feelings toward those who have found such a partner, however, Although, not a single person I've known in my relatively long life who've 'partnered up' have stayed with that first partner for life. The vast majority of those relationships lasted no more than 3 years. And most of those relationships should have ended far sooner than they did.

But hey, whatever floats your boat is fine with me.

OP - I could have written exactly what you did - I almost got chills reading it (MARY!).

Really nice and thoughtful responses on this thread. Thank you.

A big part of it for me was seeing how miserable my parents were together and dealing with their horrible marriage growing up. Made me terrified of getting trapped in a bad relationship as an adult and again living in a home where I constantly had to walk on eggshells and wished I could escape. I always told myself that I would never live that way once I was on my own.

This past year, I've tried to really invest in my friendships and in my relationship with my brother and his kids. I've tried not try to force the dating thing. If it happens for me... great. If it doesn't... I would just like to have some close friends and a strong bond with my nieces and nephews.

It's interesting (and comforting?) how many of us there are in similar situations - sometimes I feel like the only person alone at 41.

A big sticking point seeming to be trying to find someone to be partnered with forever. That's a weird straight-people goal--and most of them can't stick to that goal after they found that partner. Why torture yourself with the same goal.

How about hoping to find someone you have lots in common with and are attracted to? If it lasts forever, that's great. If it lasts for a year, that's great too.

I’m an introvert by nature so I don’t have any problems with being on my own but now, in my fifties the prospect of growing old alone is a bit scary. No one has my back if it all goes south. But I simply am not a relationship person. Not everyone is.

I thought I was a loner but found a great guy. Neither one of us was looking for anything, but a hook up lead to a conversation, then a date, and then 10 years

I'm 51 and my longest relationship was five months. I haven't been on a date in over 20 years. I have never been driven toward pair bonding, and I have always been a person who is happy on my own, and pursuing my own interests. I have a small number of friends that I care about, and have maintained those friendships for more than 20 years. They are all married now, and I have watched their relationships struggle, fall apart, in one case turn violent, and then new relationships form. It seems very difficult to me, and from my outsiders perspective, none of them take the time between relationships to be single, and to get to know themselves outside of a relationship.

I used to pursue relationships in my 20s, but eventually when I was about 30, I realized that I really wasn't that interested in relationships, and they would end, at least in part, because I would run out of things to say to the men I was dating, that our interests diverged, or because wanting time to myself, to read, or do other solitary things that I enjoy would be met with confusion, or a feeling that I didn't want to be with them. In truth, I didn't really want to, I wanted to be alone.

So I stopped seeking out relationships. I wasn't being fair to the people I was dating. These were nice guys, and they deserved to be with someone who wanted to build a life with them, not someone who would rather be on their own. I have been much happier since I stopped trying to find love.

In the long run, I am happy with my life as a single person, and was very well prepared for the lockdowns, as I work from home, and am very accustomed to spending time on my own, and enjoy it.

PS. Not bipolar, and I do not have Aspergers (I've been tested.)

[quote]OP, the people with partners are terrified of being alone

Yes, because they couldn't possibly love each other and enjoy journeying through life together.

This pressure to be partnered really went into hyperdrive with gay marriage. Otherwise, we didn't expect to be partnered forever. Now, it's become the expectation.

[quote]This pressure to be partnered really went into hyperdrive with gay marriage. Otherwise, we didn't expect to be partnered forever.

Maybe you didn't. I always have. Just one more reason I sometimes wonder if I'm really gay.

R54, gays come in many forms, so yes you are.

R54 You are more gay than them, because you want a man in his integrity, not just the occasional dick 'n' ass.

Unlike R54 I wonder if men who doesn't want to have emotional relationship with a man are really gay.

R57, gay men are still men. "Emotional" isn't thing men do well--gay or straight

Oh lord now we are judging the LEVEL of gayness of self-identifying gay men? Come on.

I'm at about 80% gay and could stand to be topped off.

Maybe it's difference between generations. Younger guys are more open to relationship, while older guys thought it was all about sex.

But how do you loners solve the issue of sex?

R58 Do you really think men aren't emotional?

r62: porn and, for the most adventurous among us, rent.men.

I'm one of those people who NEVER intended to settle down, much less get married, but it happened to me. Maybe I'm weak? I don't fucking know. What I do know is I met an incredible guy and we fell in love. Simple as that. Wasn't looking for it at all.

And let me tell you, it hasnt been easy. Oy has it not. But I'm one of those who can't imagine life without him now. 20 years on and the mere thought of him still makes me well up. HA.

That said, a few people here are saying they are nervous about being old and alone. Let me just say, we are all going to die alone whether we're partnered or not. And just because two people are together, doesnt mean they dont get lonely. You do.

We have an ongoing conversation with another couple and 2 single friends about creating a loose intentional community down the road. Buying houses near each other, or even buying land and building small houses on it - for when we're old. We're still figuring out the details but for those of you who have anxiety about being alone as an old fart, I suggest you think about this if you have a tight group of friends.

I like that idea R65.

Interesting that people in couples still get lonely. For some reason my single brain always (irrationally) assumes that doesn't happen.

It's actually worse to feel lonely when you have a partner (vs. feeling lonely when you're actually alone).

Because you feel like there is no excuse and then it's an extra shitty feeling?

Agreed, R67. Feeling lonely while you’re in a relationship is the worst because you’re obviously not getting what you need or not in the right place or somehow left behind. That was one of the reasons I got out of my LTR - I just felt like I could be on my own, not feel that way and live my own life.

Sure, sometimes I feel lonely, as you do later in life. But it’s easier to remedy when I’m on my own.

[quote] Because you feel like there is no excuse and then it's an extra shitty feeling?

In my case, (lonely while partnered), I felt like a fraud, like I wasn't being true to myself. (Yes, Mary!) I also felt bad for my partner, that he deserved someone who appreciated him more than I did. (I don't think he felt lonely, like I did. He seemed happy.)

[quote] Do you really think men aren't emotional?

Men are trained to hide their emotions. So much of hook up sex is action without the heart and brain involved. It's hard to break down walls and expose your emotions when you've learn to hide them your whole life

Like another poster above I didn't meet my partner until I was nearly 40.

I spent my life exploring lots of subtle whoring, as it were, for much of my 20s and 30s. I was in a scene (the muscle bear/bear scene) which was rarely monogamous and while I enjoyed visiting that scene, I didn't want to "live there." That scene, like so many others, seemed to be a lot of guys trying to find a perfect fantasy. I was always assumed to be some sort of big, butch daddy. But I was just me, with a library of books, a lot of old records, and a stack of old 70s TV show DVDs.

About two or three years before finding my partner, I just decided to get off the train, so to speak. It was all fun, none of this came from a place of pain or shame. But I'll invoke the cliche "insanity is defined as doing the exact same thing and expecting a different outcome." So I stopped sleeping with unavailable guys, and being around desperate sad men in bars, and spent a few years just doing whatever I found interesting. I took classes, went to lectures, etc.

I knew the day I met my partner that we had something really good. He's a beautiful person inside and out. We're a little vanilla in the sex department, but I also have an intimacy with him I've never had with anyone else.

OP, to answer your question - I don't think single by choice is always a defense mechanism, but I have a feeling that for you, your bipolar disorder takes effort for you to manage, effort that you'd feel overwhelmed by if you had to mix in another person's feelings and the care and feeding of a relationship.

I do think it CAN be defensive, though. I have two friends that I feel won't let anyone close out of defense mechanisms. One alternates between dating nice men he's bored with and assholes that excite him but always backs away when they get too close. The other had so much trauma in his initial dating years that he only aims for unattainable porn star level men, so he isn't hurt when he's rejected.

There is a need for housing or a communal situation for singles that want to live single and within a setting that can lend support as needed, especially as they age. For instance, 10 singles decide to pool resources to purchase a large estate home where each has their own area to live in, along with live-in housekeepers and maybe a chef/driver, etc. How cool would that be? Human contact when you want it, meals prepared, the place is kept up by the staff you hire. It's like having your own old folks home except you all own it and call the shots. No middle man to have to pay ridiculous sums to because you own the place and can sell your share when someone dies or decides to leave.

I'm R72 and will add -

I know several posters upthread were afraid of settling or that they'd be judged for settling. But that feels a lot like the hetero True Love BS, that someone exists out there who validates your existence and rings every bell you have.

That's BS. Love and relationships aren't that way at all, and they're fucking hard work. You do indeed have to make room for someone in your life, and sometimes the little things you do or pay attention to are as important as any "big" thing.

[quote] It was all fun, none of this came from a place of pain or shame.

Yes, man gay man take time to explore their sexuality but then grow tired of it (as I did). Then you're more open to a relationship.

Personally, I've simply never met anyone with whom I was head-over-heels (or on the DL it would be heels-over-head) in love.

I've dated a few guys and was moderately interested, but realized rather quickly that I didn't feel particularly deeply for them.

R76, head over heels all at once is a fairy tale. Most relationships grow with time

But I don't think it's the matter of planning, but didn't it happen that you fallen in love and wanted to spend more and more time together and became intimate and so on.

No butterflies in the stomach and lower for you?

[quote] Men are trained to hide their emotions.

Stop with this "men are trained" or "women are trained" bullshit. It's a characteristic of the differences between the sexes that is recorded across time and cultures, indicating that it's more a feature of our evolutionary development than anything else. It also doesn't make a feature for one sex better than an opposite feature of the other sex.

R79 Disagree with you. Of course there is a lot of cultural infleunce. Younger men are so much more emitionally open then older generation and have more so called feminine traits. Me and a friend were joking how many young fathers are playing mums nowadays.

[quote][R76], head over heels all at once is a fairy tale. Most relationships grow with time

While I generally agree, what I was trying to express was that I've never really met anyone for whom I had particularly strong feelings, let alone strong enough to consider building a life with him.

Plenty of friends with whom I had a non-romantic friendship that has lasted decades, none of whom would I ever consider as compatible as a partner.

What percent of New Yorkers live alone?

White alone, percent 42.7%

Black or African American alone, percent 24.3%

American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent 0.4%

Asian alone, percent 14.1%

Gay men are all damaged goods, far more so than the straights. When you have to fight for your rights and are reviled as monsters all your life, it makes sense. It then is no wonder they have problems with making long lasting relationships. Heterosexuals have enough problems themselves why wouldn't gays have even more?

ooooooooof r83.

What a load of shit, R83.

[quote]I've never really met anyone for whom I had particularly strong feelings, let alone strong enough to consider building a life with him.

^^This. And I never wanted the restrictions that a domestic situation would inevitably entail. Alone, I'm free to do as I please.

R85? What group in this society is more abused than gay men? Even blacks and Latinos do not get discriminated like gays. We're not even considered humans by some people, they don't want their children around gays, so not a load of shit, I guess it's all rainbow and butterflies for you, but not for most gays who even get thrown out of the house when and if they come out. I think the shit is us your brain.

Some people are more prone to this than others R77. It's a phenomenon called limerance that some people are susceptible to and some aren't.

Personally I will only be in a relationship with someone I am limerant for. It's only happened a couple of times but it's worth waiting for, to me. You still have to grow your relationship over time but that initial spark can be a supernova for some.

I'm limerant too R88. It's quite a ride - isn't it?

Jesus what we learn on DL, I had to look up limerance.

The reddit group on limerance is a dark place.

I've experienced limerance before. It's joyously maddening.

What's the difference between limerance and infatuation? I think most people have been infatuated before.

Limerence is infatuation multiplied by 1000. It's usually one-sided. It takes over your thoughts - obsessing over a person. It becomes like a drug when you have contact with them. It's almost like OCD but completely focused on a person.

There hasn't been a ton of psych research on it.

I've basically accepted that I have an issue with it but a lot of people try to fight it by going "no contact" and having no exposure to the person. The reddit group often talks about that.

It's also usually a secret thing. No one knows I have this issue (except you DLers). It's extremely embarrassing. I know it's also prevented me from having healthy romantic relationships.

It's a difference of degree. Most people would say that infatuation is shallow and fleeting. Limerance can last years when it's unrequited. Limerance is all encompassing, it's the difference between infatuation and obsession. It's more like an addiction.

BUT when two people are limerant for each other, it's quite magical.

R95 - how does it usually end? Does it eventually fizzle out?

Yes nothing that intense can be sustained for long. When it's requited the limerance fades and reality takes over. From there a relationship progresses or not like any other. My ex husband and I basically started living together after our first date, and we were together for 10 very happy years. We grew apart eventually but there wasn't any love lost and we both are better people for our experiences together.

When it's unrequited the limerance is like an addiction that gnaws away at you as long as you let it. Like an addiction it sometimes never fully goes away. I'm currently heading into year 3 of an unrequited limerant episode, and I hate it. It's definitely less intense than it used to be with no contact, but this guy still creeps into my thoughts on a daily basis.

r97 are you a man or a woman? (Just curious)

OP I am also one of them, and it is absolutely a defense mechanism. We’re so scared of being disappointed that we don’t even try. We’ve decided that we would rather have a lifetime of nothing special than 30 minutes of wonderful.

I’m currently considering rethinking this and getting back out there, but it’s hard if you’ve been hurt. There’s an instinct that kicks in to turtle so nobody can ever hurt you again.

Some of you whores who have sex with random guys whose names you don’t even know are doing a different sluttier version of the same thing, btw.

Yeah, limerance sounds horrible, actually.

r98, I have serial limerence too. I would say mine is connected to avoidant attachment problems, but you were able to maintain a 10 year relationship so clearly that's not an issue for you.

I used to think I was the only person with this nonsense and felt like a real freak (which I probably am), but if reddit is to be believed, a number of people deal with this and it impacts their day to day in a way analogous to anxiety or depression.

There is something extremely obsessive about it, which makes me wonder if it's a form of anxiety.

It's what all the songs and stories and poems are about, R100. The highest highs and lowest lows.

The last guy I dated was that way. He called it being twitterpated. I didn't feel the same way, and realized I had never felt that way about anyone. He was the catalyst that caused me to re-examine myself, and stop dating. Explaining to him what I was feeling, when I didn't fully understand it myself SUCKED. He was a great guy, and trying to explain that the problem was me and not him was difficult, since that is such a cliche, but was the truth.

He wanted to remain friends, but it was obvious that he was hoping I would change my mind, and was reading into things that I would say, so I had to back off from him, and we fell out of contact. I felt like I was leading him on, which is a shitty thing to do to someone.

I am happy being single, happy that I learned what I needed to learn about myself. I do periodically run into the "why are you single" question, or "when are you going to settle down." I am settled, just on my own.

Maybe I'm just naively romantic or idealistic, but I quite want a soulmate/partner. I'm an older millennial, and most of the gays my age are content with open relationships / endless casual fucking. I'm actually much happier single than subjecting myself to that.

Same here R104 and I'm Gen X.

IMO, the key is compatibility. An analogy would be actors in movies. 80% is done in casting. If there are too many compromises, too many things you don't like about the person, too many changes you'd like to see ... It's over before you started. IMO.

But alone is alone. Not alive.

R107 is the type to refer to unmarried women as spinsters, and pressure young female relatives to get married before their sell by date. Alone can be wonderful. I feel sorry for those who can't stand to be alone. They seek validation externally.

r108 got low SAT scores.

R109 scavenges behind rest stops, sucking the cum out of used rubbers.

It's better to be alone than to wish you were alone.

"[R109] scavenges behind rest stops, sucking the cum out of used rubbers."

to wit...

I've never had sex with someone that gave me a better orgasm than I've given myself.

I find a lot of married or partnered gay couples to be boring people. This probably sounds elitist in a way. They're such boring people they have to try to unbore themselves with open relationships.. I usually find single people more interesting even if I don't hook up with them.

I’m a very kinky girl. The kind you don’t take home to MUTHA!

As someone in a very long term relationship (30+) years I'd say that the last two years have been tedious.

As soon as near normality returns we'll go back to our life of traveling between our homes, we're over the open relationship bit and just enjoy sun, seasightseeing and booze now.

I'd use "limerence" to describe my first crush at age 15. Obsessively thinking about the person throughout the day. If I walked past the person in the high school hallway, shared the same space, heard their voice, I would feel high for the rest of the day. If they spoke to me (about something even significant), I would replay the interaction in my head. If they got within a couple of feet when speaking to me, I felt like I would faint. It was exhilarating, but at the same time terrifying, because it was a same-sex attraction, and therefore, I was gay. It was completely unrequited (a straight teacher).

It happened one more time, at age 18, with someone closer to my age (but again unattainable). Again, it lasted about two years. It made me want to write stupid poetry. And again I felt like I would faint when they spoke to me from a few feet away.

That was the last time. I don't know if my body makes those hormones anymore. Without those feelings, any relationship seems like a letdown. It would feel like living with a roommate and having sex every once in a while.

Any y'all use this "limerence" stuff as an excuse to stalk 'em, then? Because it sounds like a couple of you are unpartnered for um, reasons that might be more related to mental health issues than for anything yet discussed on this thread.

I can’t believe that I’ve never once heard of this limerence thing before. I’m so pleased that I kept this thread open these past few days. Thank you to whoever first brought this up, I am going to do some reading up on it today.

I'm picturing a Venn diagram of the intersect of Limerance and, say, Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, or Stalking, or Rabbit Boiling.

Sure, this bottomless pit of deep, all-encompassing attraction initially sounds whimsical and light-noted (like some twiddly-diddly-dee Irish folk music ensemble), but more than that it sounds delusional. Who the fuck would want to be on the other end of that?

Limerance sounds like it has a lot of overlap with erotomania

It's not stalking if you regularly visit someone's public social media profile. It only gets bad if you create a fake account to follow them or interact with them in some way.

There's nothing wrong with living alone or being alone, if you're not depressed about it... however, they are issues that need to be dealt with like medical issues, going to and from appointments or procedures. Hospitals won't let you out alone after receiving something as benign as a colonoscopy. You may be able to get a friend to pick up but you can't depend on them the way you could depend on a boyfriend or a spouse.

R123 When you get sick you really need someone to look after you. If you haven´ got a fit mommy or some special friend it´s tough. But I still think more about cuddles and kisses and lovemaking than these practical things.

I don't think it's a guarantee your partner will look after you. Ideally - yes, that would be the situation. But that's still making a lot of assumptions about relationships and how people react to chronic illness, etc. It's also assuming you will get sick first and the partner will still be alive and able-bodied. Grim view, I know, but just throwing that out there.

That being said, I hope I meet someone. I feel like it's too late for me, but holding out hope given that some of you found partners after 40.

-R6- Right there with you, at almost-68. The pandemic has given me a chance to really think things through and I still come out feeling that a LTR (after two previous ones ended -- one by divorce and one by death of partner) would be more a bother than a benefit The only one I see, really, is having someone to watch your back during disasters, illness, etc. But there's no guarantee they would.

Mostly shame, guilt, embarrassment. It’s sad but not a unique characteristic to gay men. Those traits are ingrained in gay men, and have been since gay men existed.

[quote]I have bipolar disorder

Of course. You’re gay.

??? r128?

I live alone ‘cause I like it!

No kids to look after you in old age unlike breeders

I am a straight woman. So my take on things. We are not a monogamous species and men less so by nature. I never understood why gay men wanted to get married. LTR turns into a rut pretty fast for both women and men. Women needed to get married because they didn't have rights. Up until the sixties, they couldn't even get credit without a male signature. Now I have noticed that many women who have good careers, don't want to get married especially if they are financially secure. They are just happier. Women know how to take care of themselves and so do gay men. Gay men grew up without the expectation of having a mommy to take care of them. Straight men don't learn that but they also tend to have sex with other women so they are bored in married relationships. I have not been partnered for 20 years and have been so much happier. Romantic love and the nuclear family concept was started by religion, but it is not a natural state.

Amen R132.

I'm one of them as well, OP. 54 here, never been in a relationship (fuckbuddies don't count) and can't see myself in one at this point in my life. I'm too set in my ways, am used to living alone, cooking for one person, etc. Do I regret not being in a relationship? Yes and no. I've never met any gay couple who have never had an "open relationship" (which to this day I do not understand); yes, there are straight couples who are swingers but the majority of the ones I know have been married with no affairs or breakups. The same can't be said for the gay couples I know.

Suffice to say, I do regret not having kids. I think I would have been an awesome Dad. And I suppose it's not too late for that, and never too late to meet the man of my dreams. But with the pandemic and my loathing of the gay village where I live, and don't even get me started on the so-called dating apps, I figure I will live the rest of my life, which I expect to be long, as a single gay man.

[quote] I never understood why gay men wanted to get married.

There's a difference between "not wanting" to be married and "not allowed" to be married, but I get your point.

" LTR turns into a rut pretty fast for both women and men."

Speak for yourself. I know several couples - gay and straight - who have been together for years and are legitimately happy and in love. That's not saying it's easy or single people who are happy are missing out. But to paint all relationships with your monolithic brush is shallow and somewhat weird. It would be like a coupled person saying that all single people are pathetic and sad.

R138 I meant to add that many people gay and straight like being married and there is nothing wrong with that but I still think for the majority after a long period of time they are more like roommates. Obviously, there are differences among individuals. Men are hardwired to spread their seed as much as possible and if it wasn't the case we would not have a species that lasted. Evolutionary changes in a species take hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of years.

If I were married it would not be open season on fucking. That is a dealbreaker for me.

In any relationship the sex dwindles after the first year until it becomes non existent

`We are a young species. In our more primitive states, we did not understand the correlation between sex and babies. Sex comes from the most primitive part of our brain and is instinctual like breathing and eating. It kept the species going. the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and we put ourselves in a box that said you are supposed to live in a way that is not our natural state. We have not evolved enough to live in this state without a lot of conflict with our primitive brain.

[quote]In any relationship the sex dwindles after the first year until it becomes non existent

Several posters on this very thread have disproved that.

R132 Your life your choice, but some of us need and want to love and be loved and are capable of doing so. And no career will keep you warm at night. I mean to each their own, you like your way of living and it's fine with me, but for me life without love is a bit empty. And it doesn't matter how long it would last.

Yes, R142, and I added that in comment 137.

R142... glad you are "capable" of loving and being loved. This was more a discussion re: men who are unpartnered and examining the reasons why that is. I didn't really need you to weigh in to point out that you find my way of life "empty," but thanks. I already assume that's what most people think.

Yeah, R142 - you probably didn’t intend it, but your comment comes off as supremely cunty.

R144 Never meant to judge your life, I was talking about me and my needs and desires. I understand that different people hsve different needs and respect your choice of living alone. I was replying to R132 who seemed not to understsndvthe need of some gay men to be partnered.

R145 Really didn't mean to sound that way and to preach, was only talking about my own needs.

I figured you didn’t, but it’s very nice of you to admit to an unintended tone. Most people don’t.

r146, thank you. I don't know if I even respect my choice of living alone lol. A lot of the time, I really wish I had a partner and I definitely wish it was easier for me to love and be loved.

If anyone asks I just say, "Whatever it is guys are looking for- I don't have it".

R149 Well, it's never easy. But there is a chance you'll meet your guy.

Lots of people want to be partnered but they don't always want to stay partnered for long periods of time. But how often do you look at other men in a sexual manner? Staying in an LTR relationship takes a lot of work and is difficult for a lot of people. We are herd animals and there is not a herd animal or a primate species that are naturally monogamous. It is always a conflict. You can choose to be monogamous but it isn't really a natural state is all I'm saying. People here are questioning why they don't want to be partnered and I'm trying to explain some of the reasons. There is nothing wrong with not wanting an LTR.

Now that I'm in my thirties the desire to settle down came naturally. And I prefer sexual intimacy to hook ups, guess I' m just that boring type. That doesn't mean I don't have eyes, was just looking a herd of high school boys who rushed in tram earlier this evening, some of them were beautiful, but not in a sexual way. I would never have anything with these children, just admired their youth and beauty.

R141 Partners still maintaining their sex life with each other after the first year is very much an exception to the rule

[quote] No kids to look after you in old age unlike breeders

Yes, all those people shit away in. Rising homes are childless homosexuals. Who knew?

[quote] I never understood why gay men wanted to get married.

When two people build a life together, there needs to be some form of legal recognition of and protection for, what they’ve built.

During the AIDS crisis, one half of a couple would get sick, and their partner might not be able to visit them in the hospital because they weren’t related. He dies and his family, who kicked him out years earlier, swoop in and take everything, with the survivor having no legal recourse. This happened again and again.

Marriage needed to be there as an option, but I’d hope it’ll never become almost mandatory, as it is for straight folks.

‘Rising homes’ should be nursing homes, obviously. This is one reason why I’ll never pay to access this site. The lack of an edit button is absurd.

[quote]This is one reason why I’ll never pay to access this site. The lack of an edit button is absurd.

r156 has stated her boundaries!

R155 Are you saying that if you make out a will and have a medical power of attorney that if you are gay it won't be honored. I am not being sarcastic I really don't know.

I'm in my early 40's and have never wanted a LTR. I'm too independent and I really enjoy being alone most of the time. Sure, it gets difficult around the holidays but that's about it. Single life fits me best.

R159 Have you ever fallen in love?

I haven’t been in a relationship in years but I have a specific type which is probably why I’m single. I can’t help the fact that certain guys turn me on. I’m totally into guys 5’7 and under w tight builds. These guys don’t exist in Wisconsin.

R161 Why, everyone is tall and slim in Wisconsin?

Everyone stop panicking. I had a couple of relationships throughout my life, none of which lasted longer than five years (the one that lasted two years was brutally interrupted by an AIDS death, and that’s the one I think I would have put all my work on).

I’m 60 now and completely fulfilled, not regretting any minute of being single. It can happen, and it wasn’t a hardship. Just make sure you have some younger relative who loves you very much (I do).

Those posters who prefer their single lives. Can you say sour grapes ?

Been 8 years since my last relationship. I'm not interested in another one but I do get tired of doing everything alone. I do have friends though and they would and have been there when I needed them.

I'm a lesbian though so sorry to crash your thread. I just look around at all the lesbians who are partnered up and some of them are in relationships that I wouldn't want...just really unhealthy shit. I've never lived with a partner. I've had about 3 LTR and a few short ones.

I'm ok with being single which I hear is unusual in the Lez World. I think I'm at the point where if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it's ok too.

Honestly, I don't think I'm worth loving. And I don't trust anyone who says they love me. My parents didn't.

I grew up with parents in such a cold marriage that I never even saw them hug or kiss. That gave me a fear of ending up in a relationship like that, and no real understanding of the small, everyday ways that loving couples treat each other. That plus my enjoyment of alone time have led to me being single way more often than not. I’ve seen enough friends get into bad marriages along the way that I felt no FOMO for many years.

However, I’m now in my mid-thirties and have seen a few people close to me meet wonderful spouses, true “two peas in a pod” marriages. I decided to try online dating and let myself be as picky and specific as I wanted—a remote chance of meeting someone perfect for me is better than zero.

I’ve also been reading about attachment theory, and while the idea has some strong points (yes, I do think I’ve been unhealthily avoidant), there is never a concession in that theory that codependency can be harmful or that people can truly enjoy their solitude. We are treated as being in denial of our need for connection, and the idea of non-romantic love and family is ignored. It’s good food for thought for others in this position, but I think the truth is somewhat more complex.

Can you say you prefer a lifestyle without being bitter? Or without some anonymous queen accusing you of being bitter?

I was in long term relationships 3 times, 6, 8 and 16 years. I've been single for 8 years now and have never known peace and fulfillment like this. My relationships were fine and I don't regret any of them but I wonder if I would have been happier being single instead.

Some of us are just not made to be in a relationship and I suspect that is me.

R164 you sound like you're the one with sour grapes. The singles are out having fun Or doing exactly what they want. And why spend your life in a marriage just because you are worried about what might happen when you are old for the people that say marriage comforts you in your old age. It might be your partner dies before you leaving you alone anyway. And kids are no guarantee that they will take care of you. Life is a risk.

R166, I had a similar childhood and I agree with you about attachment theory. Another issue I have with is that it villainizes the avoidant types but sympathizes with the anxious attachment types (who tend to be needy and hysterical). They are seen as able to be "rehabilitated" and the avoidant types are seen as lost causes. Like you said - the truth is more complex.

R169 I had to laugh at how the authors went overboard to reassure the anxious attachment people they could change and find a partner, while not saying much to or about avoidants—we are beyond help!

But seriously, it did make me recognize some patterns I would like to change.

I just read this when I googled avoidant personality which is what I have. and this is the quote I read "Adults with the dismissive/avoidant attachment style seem to be pretty happy about who they are and where they are. ... Avoidant adults tend to be independent. Their self-esteem is high and they do not rely on others for reassurance or emotional support.

Many gay men are always looking for greener grass, I know many like this, but they say otherwise. Better looking, more money, nicer car, take your pick. Then they bitch and complain about not finding a LTR.

Let’s be truthful. Most long term singles have some flaws or another and that’s the reason they weren’t snapped up.

Yes R173 and people in long term relationships are flawless.

R168 I can still go out and have fun with friends and come back home for a good night sleep cuddling my partner.

Open relationship = Best of both worlds

[quote]IMO, the key is compatibility.

Agree with R106.

Whenever this subject (broadly considered) comes un Data Lounge, it's both amusing and appalling.

There are the too practical set who just want someone who will shave their back hair on alternate Saturday nights and rub lotions into hard to reach places and feed the dog when they are bedridden. Fuck this limerance shit, they just want someone to drive the to doctor appointments. That's their idea of partnership.

Then there are the perfectionists of which DL has not a few. Find someone who's like you, they advise. Exactly like you, a near mirror reflection of your age, build, looks on a scale of 1 to 10, intelligence, educational and socio-economic background, with a similar cash balance sheet and income and retirement fund, who passes with flying colors the test of 1001 red flags and dealbreakers. Get a pre-nup! Keep all accounts separate! (Then scold them for getting bored with their perfect mirror images and fucking around imperfectly.)

There are people so uncomfortable with the thought of being partnered that it is probably best that it never happen. There are people so uncomfortable at the thought of not being coupled up that it's probably best that the keep on keeping partnered, no matter what comes their way, always popping back up with a new partner no matter what life throws at them. And there are people who fall at all points in between and whose opinions may change by way of time or situation.

R175: unless by ‘fun’ you specifically mean having sex with other people what you’ve posted there isn’t exclusive to open relationships.

[quote]Partners still maintaining their sex life with each other after the first year is very much an exception to the rule

Maybe that's true with the people you know, but it's a big world out there -- and some of the people in it enjoy healthy sex lives with their partners for decades.

My experience as a Gen X gay in the PNW is that gay married couples don’t have sex. They are on the apps, or otherwise looking for hookups. The level of discretion varies wildly.

Fine, but frankly, I can pay my own bills so what’s the advantage to getting married? I’m pretty independent and don’t mind living alone.

Maybe unpartnered men just haven't read the right book yet.

I'm in my 50's and am noticing some of my straight friends who have been single for a long period of time are now with people they don't even love simply because they prefer it to being alone. One friend is dating a guy who she views as a "good partner" but if you asked if she was head over heels in love she will say nope. She said she got tired of always being the one giving so much in relationships so her goal was to find someone she felt she could share the rent with and have sex with here and there. But she also told her new beau that she wanted the relationship to be open because she likes to keep her options open. They moved in together and she's already regretting it. Another is with a guy who cheated on her last year and she let him stay living with her because she was tired of living alone.

I'd MUCH rather live alone than have someone living with me who is not much more than a roommate or who has betrayed me in some way. I've been lucky in that I've never had to have roommates. I don't think I would last long with living with any one. Even IF I found someone I wanted to be with I think I might prefer they not live with me.

[quote] [R155] Are you saying that if you make out a will and have a medical power of attorney that if you are gay it won't be honored. I am not being sarcastic I really don't know.

No, it’s good to ask. Marriage conferees something like over 1,000 different benefits (don’t ask me to list them!), and a couple would need multiple legal contracts to duplicate those benefits; contracts like power-of-attorney. All of which takes time and money to do.

A couple of young men who’ve been together for years May or may not have made all those preparations, but once one gets sick, there might not be time or money to put such arrangements in place.

Even if you do all that, A will can be challenged, and who’s a 1980s court going to side with? Blood relatives of the deceased? Or some queer who claims some unnatural relationship?

Even domestic partnerships, which conferred many similar benefits, were far from perfect. A couple who got their partnership in, say, Massachusetts, travels to Georgia, and one gets sick, or in an accident and is dying. Will the partnership be honored in a state which doesn’t have such arrangements? They often weren’t. (I base this on several actual occurrences!)

[quote] Honestly, I don't think I'm worth loving. And I don't trust anyone who says they love me. My parents didn't

I’ve been where you are, emotionally, but I got into therapy and no longer believe that. I hope you’ll do the same.

[quote] [R156] has stated her boundaries

And not for the first time this week!!!😡

Yes, I know about the past problems but what about now. But straight couples also get challenged in court all the time when they remarry and the kids come after the second spouse. They generally still have to make wills and trusts and power of attorney to completely protect the surviving spouse.

I suppose if you don't have kids it isn't so much of a problem. But if there is money involved families come out of the woodwork.

I think I'm in a very long term relationship because most of my friends (acquaintances) are either dead or bore me to death.

We also don't live in the same country as any of them all of the year, it's a few months in each place (Italy, Africa, UK, Greece) so it seems like we ghost people. Mainly unintentionally.

^ Ha! What are the odds! r185? I'm like you except for Greece.

[quote] In any relationship the sex dwindles after the first year until it becomes non existent

Tell me about it. Why do you think I left my last relationship?

I just want to know how it feels to be in love.

r188 = Lou Gramm

[quote] I just want to know how it feels to be in love.

I think infatuation is about the closest you'll get to that. "In love" is a fantasy, IMO. Nobody can really define it. To feel committed is probably more desirable: I care about you and am willing to work through problems that we have.

If you stop chasing the "in love" feeling, you'll be happier, IMO.

Bertrand Russell said it best:

[quote]I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy - ecstasy so great that I would often have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it, next, because it relieves loneliness--that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what--at last--I have found.

That's lovely R191

Old Bertrand was married four times and had an enormous number of affairs, so I’m sure he did love being infatuated, but I’m not sure I’d consider that true love.

[quote]I think infatuation is about the closest you'll get to that. "In love" is a fantasy, IMO.

Infatuation is nice but I've felt more in love (and more sexual attraction) with each passing year of a 10-year relationship. I think I'm probably an outlier, though.

R194 I have that tendency too, I am as loyal and fond as an old dog. That’s one reason I’m trying to work on my avoidant tendencies…

R194 You´re the guy for me. Í`m like that, too. Ain`t nothing like making love to a person you know intimately. And with regular pleasure you give each other intimacy only groves.

[quote] Old Bertrand was married four times and had an enormous number of affairs, so I’m sure he did love being infatuated, but I’m not sure I’d consider that true love.

Wow, I Googled him and yes, he did have four wives. Geez.

I wonder if the majority of gay men are partnered or unpartnered

To each his own.

What I find annoying, though, are my single friends in their late 30s and older who are always complaining about being single. They go on dates but it’s clear they think they’re too good for everyone they meet. I would love to tell them that they’re either too set in their ways or too narcissistic to find love at this point. They should give up and stop whining about being single.

My partner and I met in our early/mid 20s and have been together for about 15 years. We love each other more and more as time goes on. The sex gets better with time too. We were open but never enjoyed sex with others as much as with one another. Now we look together and comment together but that’s it. No disappointments and no STI hypochondria.

Some people are good for LTRs ans find their perfect companion and others do not. We all find our own way.

R190: I think you’re probably onto something there. I recently ended a decade-long relationship (in my late 30s) and there wasn’t anything *that* wrong, but I felt like I should feel more in love and more passion. It’s too early to say whether it was the right choice or not but I wonder if I’ll end up concluding from it all that ‘being in love’/infatuation/limerance/whatever term people want to use isn’t so important.

Damn R199

“I would love to tell them that they’re either too set in their ways or too narcissistic to find love at this point. They should give up and stop whining about being single.”

That’s really harsh. With friends like you who needs enemies? As someone who is single, it would be really shitty to have a friend in a 15 year amazing relationship who loves their partner more and more each year telling me to “give up.”

Maybe your friends are just venting to you. I’m sure they get sick of hearing about your relationship.

This is why I don’t discuss dating or being single with my married friends. Because deep down I fear they would say something exactly like what you just wrote. It’s impossible to understand what it’s like being alone in your late 30s when you were lucky enough to meet the love of your life in your 20s (!!!).

Anyway. Yikes.

OP, if you are indeed bipolar, you would do the world a great kindness by remaining alone. I had a bipolar close friend who made my life hell, as well as the lives of everyone who was in her orbit, including family and partners. The irrationality, obstinacy and rage typical of bipolar behaviour is intolerable. Unless someone wants to be a selfless martyr to a hopeless cause, I would advise them to avoid bipolars, no matter how charming, creative or loving they may be.

Christ, this thread screams this song...

R185 is an insufferable humble-bragger. His poor partner.

It’s interesting how longtime single people are commonly viewed as having problems and yet the posters on this thread in long term relationships have (in large part) responded in ways that are lacking empathy, quite judgmental, smug and often just completely rude.

[quote]What I find annoying, though, are my single friends in their late 30s and older who are always complaining about being single. They go on dates but it’s clear they think they’re too good for everyone they meet. I would love to tell them that they’re either too set in their ways or too narcissistic to find love at this point. They should give up and stop whining about being single.

[quote]My partner and I met in our early/mid 20s and have been together for about 15 years. We love each other more and more as time goes on.

What a joy R199's shining example must be to his unfortunate single friends, and how welcome must be his kind advice that they give up and resign themselves to their fates. Had his friends only heeded his example of sorting out all this nonsense in their 20s so that by their mid- and late-30s they can enliven their days with a sage scolding now and then!

I can see it from R199's point of view. It is frustrating to listen to others' constant lamenting about their lack of success in an area, people who never consider that their failures are in any way due to shortcomings on their part, and so they never make the effort to examine their flaws and change themselves.

Being in a healthy partnership demands certain qualities - empathy, tolerance, humility, flexibility, compassion, sense of humour, unselfishness, stability, consideration for others - at least to some degree. Some people cannot or do not want to develop these qualities, through laziness, inability, fear, or self-centredness. R199 is right; they'd be better off polishing up their skills for autonomy.

I'm 49 and extremely lonely. While I've had meaningless sex with several people in my life, I've only really had 2 extended relationships. One was a heterosexual relationship in high school that lasted maybe 4 or 5 months, the other was a long-distance relationship with another woman when I was 29 nearing 30, that lasted about 5 and a half months. The latter was an emotionally abusive alcoholic. I'm still angry at myself for what I tolerated from her.

I found it very difficult to pursue romantic relationships for complex reasons. A good deal of it is due to my upbringing and feeling like relationships don't last, that people are going to hurt me, and that I have nothing to really offer. I also wish I had just accepted my homosexuality and felt comfortable being myself. It's even harder for me since I'm getting older and have really started to feel it in the last year or two. I'm estranged from my family, aside from an aunt I speak with on the phone once a week or so. My mother passed away in 2019 and I now live on a back road in a suburb of Memphis and feel very isolated. Up until 6 years ago I lived most of my life in major bustling cities. It has its positives, being away from traffic congestion and such, but it still has its disadvantages. I really don't have anyone, am all alone; and it's scary when you're middle-aged, a woman, and your financial situation is iffy.

I've written this before, but I only care that I'm alive because of my cats. I fear anything happening to me before they die because they will have no one to take care of them. But once they're gone I hope I have a massive fucking fatal heart attack.

Never having been close to someone has been painful to me. I've been starving for human touch my whole life and have never felt valued or loved. Sorry to have jumped around with this.

Sending you a big hug R208. I understand what you mean.

R199 and R207 - I'm sure that your friends all have issues with you. No one is perfect. I'm sure you vent about things that they don't want to hear about and I am sure they find you narcissistic at times. We all have issues. But if you are actually someone's friend - you don't tell them to GIVE UP and you don't have that level of resentment toward them. What R199 wrote says more about him than his single friends. I genuinely hope his 15 year amazing relationship doesn't break up, because then he might see how difficult it can to be alone and over 40.

R208 Please don't feel this way, I see you are a nice and good guy, I believe many people will love to have you around.

Dan Savage was right; a great many of us will end up alone. There is not someone for everyone. Some people will be single in the end.

I checked out that Limerence group on Reddit. Pathetic. Guys, if you see yourself in those folks (or worse), get help. Don't romanticize maladaptive behavior!

I am too tactful to say that to friends, R209. The most I might do is suggest counselling.

R207

[quote]I'm 42 and have never been in a relationship that lasted longer than a month or two

Those weren’t relationships - that was dating.

R208 what you wrote is so moving and so honest, and your grief over lost time and opportunity is completely human and understandable. Life can be so cruel to many of us in the subtlest and most unforeseen ways—it’s not just dramatic tragic violent events that can break us down.

Skin hunger is particular is something very real and scary, and it will loom larger than ever before post-pandemic as our world hurtles toward total tech-dependence. Just 300 years ago, people used to sleep naked and tucked up side by side with people they didn’t even know well, for warmth and protection. I’ve often pondered the far-reaching collective effects that our general distancing is having on the human soul & psyche. It can’t be good.

What’s worse is that there are few solutions besides just finding someone to sleep with. Massage therapy is an option, but of course it can be prohibitively expensive in the long-run, and you have to find a good reliable non-sketchy practioner who understands your situation.

This isn’t meant as a patronising consolation, but I suppose it may help to remember that there are partnerships and marriages that have grown cold and lost physical intimacy out there, as well as partners who are asexual types or people who cannot reciprocate or accept physical touch for whatever reason, so a relationship would not necessarily solve everything for you.

If you don’t mind my asking; how come you never dated or sought any other partners, besides the unpleasant ones you found in your twenties? Were you simply traumatised, or were you suffering with depression or some similar impediment?

That’s constructive R214.

Didn’t realize you were the one in charge of determining whether an anonymous stranger was in a relationship vs dating.

Agreed R212 - it’s a very dark place. I went on there once and got the fuck off. I couldn’t tell if it was mostly fraus or incels but it was as disturbing.

Isn’t it ironic how so many of us are lonely, yet so many people STILL refuse to lower their over the top ridiculous standards at all? I think our community has a hard time for some reason accepting that you are not going to get every single thing you want in a partner and you need to compromise at least some.

R217 I’ve definitely lowered my standards. Nobody’s perfect… everybody brings some kind of crazy to the relationship. What’s frustrating is most of the guys that ask me out are fat bears or muscular guys. I’m skinny and athletic so go figure. I’m not into these types not even remotely. I still put myself out there. Im optimistic.

R208 have you any advice for a younger woman with a similar profile? If you could do it over from say age 28, how would you do things differently? Is it just a matter of joining social groups and going along with the people in them? Or do you think you’d have had to ask others out and organise meet-ups yourself? How would you go about getting the relationships you want?

I’m F/28, shy/avoidant/socially inexperienced, never had a proper relationship or even had sex, but have been on a few awful dates and had a bad situationship (with women and men) that were enough to scare me and turn me sour.

Reading your story was bonechilling, because I really don’t want such a future (I’m a dog person, for one thing!), but unless I make big changes that is likely to happen. And to make matters more crucial, I’m really starting from scratch in bad position—I live as a carer with an elderly relative in rented housing (so socialising is difficult), my best IRL friend is moving away to live with her long-distance bf in a few weeks, and I have no other friends at all. I also work from home as a freelancer, so it’s not like I can even befriend or fuck anyone at my office.

So I don’t know what to do or where to begin, beyond maybe joining a local group/team or getting an allotment or something? As a carer, realistically I can be away from the house for an evening/afternoon a few times a week, but no more. I also need to change career and look to find a way to move post-care, ideally to a better more vibrant area—perhaps I ought to go back to school? (I have a BA I got five years ago, but it’s a basically-useless Arts degree).

^^^forgot to add that I was bullied/socially excluded by peers and smothered/neglected by my parents as a kid, which I think has fucked me up in terms of relationship. I was depressed for my entire adolescence, so I didn’t have energy or ability to socialise (think Daria, but 5x worse). I do a lot of self-help, but so far haven’t felt the inner ‘click’ of all my dysfunction healing. Therapy, even cheap online short-term courses, are out of question because my budget is very tight (caring stipends are a joke, and my work is unreliable with no fixed salary).

R220 I'm not R208, but I wanted to say girl, you are still young, you've got life ahead of you. But it does psss quickly, so try and find someone online at least for friendship, I know it's hard, beacause I am avoidant and hypershy too, but I also found partner online.

At what age do people stop having open relationships? Is it really a choice to stop the open nature of the relationship? Seems like the opportunities might just dry up, unless there's money involved.

R220 I am not R208, but I'm over 40 and alone/avoidant/shy/had smothering yet emotionally neglectful parents.

I know you say your budget is tight but my advice would be to get into therapy. That's what I wished I would have done at your age. Find some place with a sliding scale (try betterhelp.com), find a free support group for people with social anxiety, find something where you are forced to work through your issues with another person. The problem with avoidance is that the longer it continues, the worse it gets. I remember being 28 and thinking I was so old and now, in the blink of an eye, I'm over 40. I have great friends and a good job and close relationships with my brother and sister-in-law and mother, but I have never had a serious romantic relationship because I just avoid/avoid/avoid. It's the one area of my life where I cannot get my shit together. I'm not miserable but I wish I had addressed this when I was your age.

In my experience, message boards and reddit and watching youtube videos on avoidance isn't enough to really make changes in your behavior.

For friends - try bumble BFF if they have that where you live.

You can do it girl.

Maybe my comments were harsh at R199, but I tried to be brief.

I do have friends who are really having a hard time finding their Prince Charming and I often try to set them up with nice guys, listen to them vent and try to offer advice. These were not the guys that I was referring to when I said that maybe some people should stop trying to make coupling work for them.

I was referring to the guys who are looking for a model with huge muscles, high power job, worldly, rich, etc and won’t “settle” for anything less. These are the same guys who are never happy with work and constantly talk about leaving NYC for greener pastures, yet never leave. They still rent in their late-30s (or 40s or 50s) because they can’t even commit to an apartment. They live like college kids and nothing is ever good enough for them. Maybe they just have to come to terms that being in a relationship is a two-way street and if they’re not willing to give a little, they would be better served by putting an end to their incessant search for a soulmate.

When I met my partner, we were two youngish, poor students with really not much to offer. We fell in love with the person, not with what he could do for the other. We were both extremely ambitious and made concessions with our careers so we could be together, and like all things, everything worked out in the end. We were both willing to give up things to build a relationship. We made it a high priority and continue to make it our main priority.

That’s what some of my friends don’t understand. They’re not going to find someone willing to conform to their mold who won’t expect some reciprocation.

One other thing - I only wrote that our sexual relationship is so good after all these years because people posted that sex fades early on. That isn’t necessarily true and makes people think they should be in open relationships. I just encourage people to give monogamy a chance because it can be really rewarding and satisfying. If it’s not for you, fine, but some people enjoy it.

Thanks for clarifying R199, I appreciate it.

I think I understand about single people (complaining about being single). However, R224, one advantage you did have was meeting & settling down in your 20s (I'm assuming). That's the window of opportunity that most people miss. As you get older, you just don't meet new people, make new friendships, etc., like you do in your 20s.

If a LTR is important, I'd say, don't waste your 20s. By 25, be very serious about dating. Don't waste time with place-keepers and the wrong people.

r202, you sound like an asshole

The thing is, though, R227, statistically a partnership contracted in the 20s has a 1 in 4 chance of lasting; in the thirties, the odds are 1 in 2. This is for straight marriages anyway. But there is certainly a wider pool to choose from before 30.

I am 50. I have been thinking about getting into the online dating. I will only date someone 80 plus--mostly because I don't want to have sex that often. I also will only date someone who is more financially successful than me. I own a house. If he doesn't I won't waste my time. Roommates and Religion are a turn off so that won't work for me either. The minute a guy pulls the "my ex is my best friend" line I will dump them immediately. I am a good catch. Especially for an older guy. He will be lucky to have me.. Also I am not moving in with someone at the drop of the hat either. Also I expect the guy to pay for all meals and trips. Overall I think I will get a lot of suiters.

R230 80+? You wanna inherit or do you like old dears?

R223, I feel like you wrote my life story. I'm in my 40s, and I started therapy last year. It's helped me understand my issues, and it's helpful to have someone to try to push me to get out of my comfort zone. In the past year, I recently reached out to some old high school friends, and we've become very close, even closer than we were in high school. This was the first year I celebrated my birthday with anyone besides family.

The next step is to expand my social circle and meet new friends. My therapist keeps pushing me to try to get into a relationship, but I don't know if anyone will take a chance on someone in their 40s who's never been in a relationship before. I have social anxiety and poor self esteem. I'm strongly considering going onto antidepressants (at my therapist's recommendation). Who knows what the future holds.

R232 It doesn' t matter that you weren't in relationship before. Nobody would mind. You should really try.

I’m with my partner 8 years. We bought a house together 5 years ago. My old condo just recently came on the market and I was a bit surprised, or maybe not, how much I wished I had my old place back, all to myself. I think what helps our relationship is that my partner works a lot of camp shifts where he’s away 2-3 days at a time. What he complains about, though, is that he never gets the house to himself because I’m still working from home. So while he’s off, at least I used to be at the office. That gave us space and seemed to work. But part of me feels like if we broke up and moved apart, I wouldn’t necessarily be devastated. I sort of think he feels the same.

Thanks everyone for sharing...this is a portal into what my life will be like as a single eldergay

R232 I feel the same way about people being completely scared off by me never having been in a relationship. I have A LOT of shame about it. So that shame makes me more avoidant. R233 thanks for saying that.

I listened to this Whitney Cummings podcast once and she was talking about red flags when dating and she said “ugh someone who doesn’t have any exes. THAT’S a huge problem.” I know it’s dumb but that really stuck with me. I was like god, I’m a total weirdo freak.

I’ll keep trying.

Ooops meant to say from R223^^^

Same OP. I don't need my other half, because I'm not half. I am whole.

[quote]I don't know if anyone will take a chance on someone in their 40s who's never been in a relationship before.

I would LOVE a guy like that! Then I don’t have to worry about being compared to anyone from their past or worry about someone from the past hanging/coming back around.

[quote]I listened to this Whitney Cummings podcast once and she was talking about red flags when dating and she said “ugh someone who doesn’t have any exes. THAT’S a huge problem.” I know it’s dumb but that really stuck with me. I was like god, I’m a total weirdo freak.

Oh yeah - Whitney Cummings is DEFINITELY someone to take relationship advice from. The same woman who is pushing 40 and still single herself. I can’t imagine why.🙄

R231 = Does it matter? I see so many old predatory queens I sure won't feel guilty inheriting ones house. But I have a lot of rules. I will date you. But as soon as I find out you are broke it is Splitsville. I will never date a man who doesn't own his house--the minute I get your address I am checking to see if you are the owner and what you paid for the house.. I own mine and if you are a renter you can forget about getting a second date with me. If you have adult kids who are mostly out of the picture I will consider dating you. If you ramble on about your "coming out at 60" story that is a turn off. Marriage is almost totally off the table unless your net worth is high...But I bring a lot to the table and there are gay seniors dating sites I have been checking out. I am cute. I am fun. I will be decades younger than anyone I date so that is a plus for my partner. A lot of older guys like to travel so I do not expect to pay for any trip expenses. Etc Etc.

R241 And you can’t understand why you’re 50 and never been in a relationship….

The 40-y-o never-been-partnered situation. I think it's OK if you, yourself, don't make a big deal out of it. The concern would be someone who is really inflexible, intolerant, grouchy, etc.

In fact, it may be a positive.

R242 = You misunderstand. I have been unpartnered (by choice) for about 10 years. But I have had LTR and learned a lot of what I want and what I don't. Don't hate me because I won't date a poor guy. I own my house. And you sure better own yours. I need to find a nice widower who wants to pamper their partner. They will be lucky to have me.

I think most of the 'Single by choice' guys on this thread have made the correct decision.

An unwillingness to share or compromise would my the life of any unwitting potential partner miserable.

Whoops, Freudian slip!

R241 sounds like a fussy gold digger. Anyone sane would leave before hearing half of your requirements.

R241 I have never met a gay man who 'deserved to be pampered!' that was anything of the kind.

R247 = I am going to tell the guy all my requirements. That would be stupid on my part. I will go on a date. Maybe a couple. I will know by then if he is acceptable. Like I said, I think a lonely widower type would be really happy by what I have to offer as a relationship. I am a very lovable person so really I just need to pick the right guy. I have given this a lot of thought.

R241 is being honest about what he wants…

He may end up alone, but hey, he knows what he wants…

R230 Sorry to tell you this, but a rich old man isn’t going to spoil and pamper a 50 year old when there are plenty of guys in their 20’s and 30’s willing to fuck him for money and gifts.

R251 = Wrong. Guys like you are the ones who built me. Bet I can get an old timer with no problem at all.

I haven't read this entire thread but it has been more on point and mind blowing than the psychiatrist, the therapist and 2 medical professionals I saw at one point in my life before making the decision to not date ever again.

I am relieved that I am apparently not uniquely and irreparably broken BUT I am also pissed that not one of those 4 people thought to mention to the broken hearted woman with CPTSD and OCD with intrusive thoughts that limerence existed.

Also, retrospectively, when limerence meets narcissist it can be a real mind fuck.

R253 Funny you say that because just a few hours ago I was getting pissed off with myself because I randomly thought about how many years I wasted on worthless assholes. That time is something I can never get back.

I have become cynical of gay relationships. Looking at the Perv Teen Actor threads here. Looking a the Perv Posters on hookup sites. Looking at the Pervs on SD...Next relationship I am in will be "what is in it for me".. I have decided to give being a USER a try...I will not date a broke man. I will not date anyone who cannot give me stuff I deserve...I refuse to have sex with just anyone..I am cute and talented. I have no worries I can find someone who will treat me the way I want.

Lots of comments about ending up a life alone. However, most people end up alone. Unless long-term partners die in a car wreck or a plane crash, odds are that one will outlive the other, leaving one alone. So that shouldn't be the sole motivation for having a partner. A person who works hard to originate, maintain, and sustain long term friendships is really in a better position as he ages than someone who puts all his relationship eggs in one basket - so to speak. I have found that even in simple roommate situations, I'm always the one who compromises to keep the peace. Therefore, I prefer to live alone and have control over how I live. How often I clean, how late I stay up, how much noise I make, what TV program I want to watch, etc. I'm not against having a relationship again, although at my age, the odds are diminishing quickly. But I'd rather be with someone who has his own house and his own life, who would be content to get together to do something (a movie, concert, meal) spend some time cuddling and have sex if both are in the mood, spend the night together once in a while, and then part until the next time. I know a few heterosexual people who have worked out that sort of relationship for themselves. But it's a tall order.

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been discussed, but what do you guys make of gay serial monogamists? Say, a 45-year-old gay man who's been in a rotation of long-term relationships (lasting three to seven years) his entire adult life and within months of a breakup always hops into another intense relationship? Yes, I am describing an ex-boyfriend and, yes, I'm hoping for scathing diagnoses! But be honest with me.

Eventually he will stay with the last partner, R257, because it will be the best available option.

R257 = YOU picked him. I doubt you were much of a prize. You are on DL hoping for insults (from strangers) against and ex YOU couldn't keep. You sound like the problem and you sound bitter.

Rescue chick - most therapists don’t know anything about limerence - I have shrink relatives and I would be they’ve never heard of it (too embarrassed to ask them). It’s weird - right? The concept really resonated with me (and apparently a lot of other people) when I read about it, so I think there is something there. But the psych community doesn’t really seem aware of it. And yes - being limerent about a narcissist - oooof. Been there.

Limerance=OCD.

Limerance>>action=stalking.

End of.

R257: The gay men whose whole adult lives seem a chain of relationships, each so hard on the heels of the previous that the chain is uninterrupted by more than a hiccup here and there — that's a sort extreme opposite. A few posters have touched on this already, I think.

Too much is made of the appropriate period of mourning and introspection between relationships, but really, the people who every few years when you catch up to them again have a new love of their life, a new wedding ring, a new house, a new set of friends, it seems to speak to something missing in themselves that they are extremely fucking quick to fill when a gap arises, some going all in and creating an entirely new life each time it seems so that they are not so much one person as chapters from random books, these men who will not under any circumstances be unpartnered for more than about about 36-hours.

There are, though, people who see themselves as people who should be partnered, whether because they think they need a partner to provide something they lack (money or responsibility with money, an opposite disposition or outlook to ground or balance them, a shared sense of humor and perspective, someone so alike they become a sort of "team," a "prize" to show off...it can be all sorts of reasons, and not all of them bad at all. And likewise, there are plenty of people who see being single the natural state and course for them; some may waiver, briefly, or in a big way and partner up long-term, or they may not.

From my experience most people see themselves as the partnering type, the forever single type, or the open to either situation.

Having a partner wouldn't seem the best thing for some Data Loungers who are unwaivering in wanting everything their own way, under their control, unwilling to extend much trust toward another, or whose extreme caution and aversion to the idea would probably doom any relationship that might get a foot in the door. That's fine. And I would hope their friends (and FFS counselors) would not nag them to something that seems so unnatural for them. Pushing people into relationships and "being settled" is misguided at best I would say — and pity the poor people at the other end of this experiment.

I always figured I would be single all my life, no partner, no roommates, and I'm very comfortable and happy doing that. Most of my years have been spent doing just that. I'm also happy having a partner, but I'd have a better chance at a big lottery win than at finding someone who made me rethink being single. I could never do it because I felt old and lonely, or because I wanted someone who would keep on feeding the act if I died. Settling for someone you don't hate too very much and who will presumably be good enough call the ambulance to collect you in your final collapse is no comfort at all for me. There's no way I'm living with someone if there's not more magic to the thing than that.

R256 same! I really rate what you said.

What I long for the most in life, more than a sexual partner in an LTR or marriage, is a close-knit group of loyal friends who are bonded together for life over the same strong cause or interest, like players on a pro sports team or soldiers in the same platoon. People with whom I can be affectionate physically and emotionally, open up to or confide in, make plans with, and share both success and failure together.

Because I never had that, growing up—I was the kid who either played by myself, with my kid sister, with imaginary friends, or in some years with one equally-misfit friend to whom I basically clung as a social lifeline to stop me getting roasted and abused by other kids. Looking back, I did have two or three chances in adolescence to form a group, but I let my scars from childhood and my avoidant introvert slightly-aspy nature get in the way.

Whenever I see a group of happy people who look truly connected to each other, I get so jealous. But I feel like you have to have known others since youth to get to that level of trust and intimacy, right? Friendships started in adulthood almost never get to be like that, because everyone over age 23-25 devotes themselves to their partners and their kids/family and seeking sex.

Groups of friends can be unrealistic r263 - the dynamics can get really fucked. My close friends know each other but we don’t all hang out as a group - it’s more one-on-one time or time with a friend and their partner if they aren’t single. Movies and tv and social media want us to believe there are these big groups of friends that hang out happily all the time but in my experience that isn’t real life. It’s difficult organizing everyone to hang out, some people are closer than others, there can be tension etc. I am single so this might be different for couples who are friends with other couples, but I would imagine even then it’s not so simple to gather 4 couples together to hang out regularly.

You are young enough to make *at least* 2 friends. Saying everyone over 25 is devoted to partners and families is an excuse. Go back to school - you’ll meet people there. Or go on Reddit and look for a meet up group in your area - you’re still in the age range for that. A lot of my friends fled my city when covid happened, so I’ve been forced to seek out new friendships in my 40s. It’s not easy but I’ve found that even the most seemingly well adjusted people are looking for new friends. I’ve forced myself to go to meet ups and I’ve met some nice people. It takes time to build an actual friendship but it’s a start.

And if I can do it (bring as avoidant and shy as I am) so can you!

[quote] what do you guys make of gay serial monogamists? Say, a 45-year-old gay man who's been in a rotation of long-term relationships (lasting three to seven years) his entire adult life and within months of a breakup always hops into another intense relationship?

I have a woman friend, bisexual, who does this. With this particular person, I think it's a status thing. (Being part of a couple.) IMO, she's more of a lesbian, but got tons of positive reinforcement when she started seriously dating a man (ended up married in her 40s).

BAN R265 = This a a thread about GAY MEN (it's right in the title). Nobody gives a fuck about your Lezbo friends. Geez.

JFC R266! Ban??. How intolerant can you be?. I for one am interested in hearing about ALL human experiences and patterns of behavior. We all can learn a little bit from everyone else's life. Speak for yourself.

R267 = Lesbian trying to inject themselves into another Gay Man Thread. There is a reason every Lesbian Bar is a business failure and they have to invade the Gay Clubs.

^ Wrong again R268. I'm a 53 year old male. You're clearly a childish troll, so I won't waste any more time on you again.

[quote] I am a very lovable person so really I just need to pick the right guy.

LMAO you are one of the most obnoxious people I have ever had the misfortune of interacting with, not least because you put that stupid equals sign in every reply you post even when it doesn't make sense!

R270 = Wrong. = I have repeatedly had guys tell me they are falling in love with me on only the 2nd date. I dump broke guys so poor guys falling for me is meaningless. I have been working on my online profile and reading lots of helpful books too (Goal Diggers Guide, etc)...So I am ready to meet the right 80 year old widower who wants a cute BF...They are out there. No Worries. I am getting back to the dating world!! I will never date someone who isn't a homeowner (like me). = Wish me Luck!!

People need to accept that not everyone is the marrying kind. This goes for everybody. In the same line, not everyone is meant to have children. I feel bad for the married straights on this one because there really is a huge expectation to procreate. There would be a lot less abused children if men and women weren't push into it or half heartedly agreed to it.

As others have commented above, I have not seen any relationships that are enviable. The one I did admire, my best friend, dropped a huge bombshell about her marriage and they are thinking divorce. Such whiplash. I haven't seen any gay relationships I admire - at least monogamous ones. If I can't have monogamy, I don't want to bother, which means being single in the long term.

In terms of gay relationships, I am an old millennial of 40 and I do not feel a pressure to settle down nor judged for being single. I live in LA and it does not seem like everyone is married. There seem to be a lot of single men of all ages of various looks who are single. I think the apps are making the dating worse rather than better. What I DO feel is that my life is not valued, especially professionally and working with women. No kids/family = no excuses to rush out of the office or leave early. Some bitch told me I should foster a dog to keep me company. I was like, I am very happy with my life.

All of my serious boyfriends I have met in person. Also, I have met a lot of long term gay couples in my solo travels around the world and I always ask questions about the secrets to their success. I am not exaggerating - nearly 100% are all in open, sexless relationships, but stay for the companionship. I get it, but I also don't get the "die alone" reasoning. Planning for someone to take care of you - partner, parents, children is just bad business. You need to figure out how to care for yourself. At 40, I am totally trying to think of safe guards to start putting into place so I won't have to rely on anyway.

Bottom line, singles, treat yourself well. Stay in shape, take great adventures, and enjoy the freedom to live life on your terms. Be open, but no expectations. Do what you want.

R272 = Thinks he is an "expert" in everything. Probably a Narcissist. Yawn...

[quote]If I can't have monogamy, I don't want to bother, which means being single in the long term.

Same. And while I love being in a relationship, I'm fine with being single.

R274 I understand you. I wouldn`t like to have a guy that fucks around neither.

Jesus, this thread really brought out some trolls

r22 here and I don't think I've ever had a post with 14 likes before. Proves that loneliness, friendship-wise, is widespread.

R272 love what you wrote.

I once worked at an office where a gay male supervisor kept a running list of everyone in the office who was married with children. A physical list. And he would make comments to me like “wow you’re one of only 3 single people left in this entire office.” He was married to a silent aspie type (both unattractive) and they used a surrogate to have twins and then years later another surrogate to have another kid. When he talked about the kids, it always sounded like they were a real nuisance. He also kept a list of who had sent him gifts for the twins and who didn’t (I didn’t. I purposely never asked him one thing about those kids). I couldn’t believe his obsession with other people’s marital status. Also seemed like an HR violation.

People who keep lists about others like that are fucked up, R278. I'm sorry that you had to work for such a p.o.s.

When I came out, I was so desperate to be partnered that I settled down with the first guy who came along who was willing--about 6 months later.

After 20 years together, I'm generally happy but wish I had looked around more to get a better fit.

r219: My advice to my younger self would have been to take an interest in my own life, to not live in so much fear, and to not be afraid to make decisions for myself. I would have told myself that a girlfriend is not going to land in my lap. I would tell myself to put myself in situations where I could meet people and not to be afraid of rejection in trying to be assertive in forming friendships. I would tell myself to be accepting and understanding of other people's faults.

Some things you obviously don't have control over, but it's so true that you have to choose your destiny before it chooses you. You're still young, but time goes by real fast and is precious. A lot of things are still possible when you get older, but they're just not quite as easy.

Are there any support groups for caretakers you can take advantage of? Maybe even an online group? Is there any activity in your area that interests you that you could manage with your responsibilities?

Who says the goal is to have a partner?

"This isn’t meant as a patronising consolation, but I suppose it may help to remember that there are partnerships and marriages that have grown cold and lost physical intimacy out there, as well as partners who are asexual types or people who cannot reciprocate or accept physical touch for whatever reason, so a relationship would not necessarily solve everything for you."

r215: I have taken comfort in that there are a lot of miserable relationships out there, but I don't like feeling that way. I'd rather feel happy about those who seem to be in healthy relationships. I mean, I often do feel glad for them, but I have those moments of envy sometimes. Then you find out one of them is fucking everything that will let 'em, and the other is a raging alcoholic.

"If you don’t mind my asking; how come you never dated or sought any other partners, besides the unpleasant ones you found in your twenties? Were you simply traumatised, or were you suffering with depression or some similar impediment?"

There are complex reasons, some of which I'm aware of and understand, and others that I'm not sure about and/or don't understand. Confidence was a big issue with me, at least regarding some things. In other ways I am very confident. I think I thought I didn't deserve a relationship, that the person would get bored with me, they'd realize they made a mistake, etc...

R272 meet R274. Seems you have similar desires and needs.

Good luck.

I will never be in a monogamous relationship. If it is a dealbreaker and I meet a nice older guy, I might pretend to be monogamous but I sure wont actually do it. I just want to meet a nice widower who wants to have fun but not one of those creepy guys who obsess over sex--those are the old dudes who hang out at the gay parks. Over 75 is a plus. Home ownership is a must. Also I have learned a lot of tricks in online dating = for example = always place 2 ads. One ad should be monogamous and relationship oriented. The other ad should be a slutty one. Amazingly guys will answer the same ad!!...That helps you weed out the losers...

The old 75+ ones are still wanting sex 24/7, so don't think you will get off easy, R285. I met this 70+ man at a bar recently and I was just chatting with him over a drink. He said he had never been w/ a man, married, blah, blah. I told him that he should hire an escort, someone high end and well reputed. He said he wants to be pounded by a hung, bear top.

R286 = No. I know those guys are out there but that is not what I am going for. I am looking for one of the impotent oldies who want companionship in their twilight years. I only need to find one. I know I can do it. Not even worried about it other than having to weed out the trash I get stuck going on a date with. If a guy thinks I am sleeping with them before I find out they are broke--and then dumping them--good luck with that. Not Happening. I haven't dated in a couple of years (by choice). I get hit up all the time on Social Media--which I ignore. I am not the slightest bit worried about meeting a guy. I have read tons of books on snaring the right guy. I got all the info down pat...

Imagine reaching the age of 50 and being this screwed up and deluded (if this is real..).

R288....I am real...Trust me. I should keep everyone posted on how it is going. I know I have a lot of fans here.

We are not interested, so fuck off away from here with your boring fantasy tales.

Your plan might have worked 30 years ago, but now all the 70+ gays are on Viagra.

R291 = Not all of them. Some guys with medical conditions cannot take viagra. I only need to find one. My ex roommate and I used to go to the local bathhouse and I used to see the grossest old dudes there. That isn't who I am looking for. A nice gentleman will be perfect for me. I joined a gay seniors FB group and don't really interact there but I get a lot of guys trying to chat up with me. I am cute. I will keep you all posted. I know some of you are fans.

r123 But some peoples experience and hence belief is that it is friends that can be counted on more and be more reliable than boyfriends?

R293, not building biases based on our anecdotal experience, or not deeply considering our own experiences before drawing conclusions, is hard.

It's also an indication of a responsible person, whether prospective friend or boyfriend.

"Some people" usually are the bane of our unhappy society and their own place in it, except where trauma is involved. PTSD and its approximates need therapeutic assistance, which everyone ought to know.

I'd like to have a relationship but I fear I'm far too damaged, and at this point too old to find a guy to fall in love with.

Well yes r294 I think we are in agreement.The quality of the person is whats crucial rather than their status.I was just pushing back against the assertion boyfriends are inherently more a reliable bet when experience tells us that is certainly not a universal phenomenon! But also not being partnered does not mean no family .I have plenty of nieces and nephews and younger siblings who I may also draw on for support if need be .Definitely some that are unreliable who I would not call on in my family circle but a significant number who are.

I am pretty sure I do not want to live with someone ever again..But If I met a nice 80+ year old gentleman I would date him.I am 50 but I will not date a poor guy. A renter is unacceptable to me. I just cannot bring myself to date someone who isn't a homeowner like me. I am working on my personal ad and going to join a senior dating site by the end of the month. Some guy is going to be very lucky..I am a pretty good catch. Super nice. Very Talented. An older guy probably won't get on my nerves too bad.

Yeah, we heard you the first 5 times R297

R297 I thought you had already found some old fellow. You are having some long preparation.

R299 = I know. I have a target date--I know what I am doing--I am going to hit the dating scene during the holidays because more lonely guys date then. I have read some great books (seeking arrangement--how to marry a millionaire--goal digger--etc).... I also want to take some good pictures. I cannot decide whether to go risqué and show off my portable sling and naughty toys---or go low key and shy...The problem with risqué is I will end up with a lot of old whores who think I am going to sleep with them (I won't). If I show off my massage table I will get trolls wanting freebies (not happening). I think I am going Low Key, it will keep the sex freaks away if I come off boring, though that does seem to attract the religious loonys. I am not looking forward to weeding out the losers..

[quote] going Low Key, it will keep the sex freaks away if I come off boring, though that does seem to attract the religious loonys

R300 this is a problem I run into as well. Only I actually am a shy boring virgin with slightly offbeat spiritual beliefs, and actually am not a predator looking to bleed some poor old cadaver dry. So I guess it’s still a good day.

R301 = ........R300 HERE....Yeah....You and I would not be a good match..Sorry but I cannot stand spirituality. freaks---its right up there with "I was married and didn't know I was gay" guys.....I would weed you out real quick. Sorry. I am sure you are nice. I have no intention of getting dragged to a church unless you are putting a giant diamond on my finger..LoL....Fun Followup from my previous post---I took some naughty pix and now am leaning going with risqué profile pix. I know the naughty will get me a lot of unwanted attention but gosh the pix turned out good. And classy. Underwear shots but definitely not bad. Also not sure what some of these sites allow for profile pix. They are pay sites because I don't want a cheap guy. I might do a dry run and just throw up an ad to see what some of my prospects are..

I’m in my 60s and have never had a life partner. I’ve always been ok being alone but I had a health scare a few months ago and i was sad thinking that maybe I made a mistake because if I ever got really sick i wouldn’t have anyone to care for me. It’s something to think about.

R303 = I had a roommate who died at 57--cancer---just a few years ago... He never had a partner either. In hindsight it is kind of sad. I feel badly that he didn't have anyone to love. He did love his CL Hookups. In a weird way I am glad he passed away before the CL Personals were stolen from him..

R300 please never assume my faith again.

Me & the Abrahamics do not soirée.

Just because you are married doesn't mean that your husband won't run off and knock up some slut while you are undergoing chemo and dying from cancer.

R306 babes I know the feeling!

I usually find other gay guys annoying, so a relationship seems like a long shot.