Theatre Gossip #438, "Sondheim Is God and Don't You Forget It, Missy" Edition

Schwartz' toupee will outlast Cher.

Following up on the Sondheim, Billy Wilder, Sunset Boulevard discussion...

That idea was circulating in the press during the run of SWEENEY TODD. It was always mentioned as a property Sondheim was developing for Angela Lansbury. The attachment of her name to the discussion made backing out of the project extremely tricky for Sondheim. He needed a name as big as Billy Wilder to make it gracefully go away. For that matter, Landbury needed it, too. The whole thing could have been embarrassing to them both.

If it turned out that Sondheim, or Lansbury, or their press representatives, concocted the whole thing to publicize SWEENEY TODD, I would not be entirely surprised. Certainly, the attachment of Billy Wilder to the exit strategy was necessary for all involved.

The Sondheim show that wasn't getting much mention in the last thread was A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. It's (by far!) my favorite and perfect in every way. I saw the original production with the entire original cast 3 times and then saw the tour with Jean Simmons and Margaret Hamilton twice. But I fear after that minimalist revival with CZJ the show will never get the fully and expensively designed glorious production it demands.

There was no Bajour! to conclude the previous thread and that made me sad.

BAJOUR!

[quote] Following up on the Sondheim, Billy Wilder, Sunset Boulevard discussion...That idea was circulating in the press during the run of SWEENEY TODD. It was always mentioned as a property Sondheim was developing for Angela Lansbury. The attachment of her name to the discussion made backing out of the project extremely tricky for Sondheim. He needed a name as big as Billy Wilder to make it gracefully go away. For that matter, Lansbury needed it, too. The whole thing could have been embarrassing to them both.

That's a fascinating theory, but there's one part I don't understand -- when you say "the whole thing could have been embarrassing to them both," what exactly are you referring to? The idea of Sondheim writing a SUNSET BLVD. for Lansbury, or the show itself if he had actually written it? I don't agree with either of those. Or are you just saying that backing out of the idea without being able to quote someone like Wilder would have been embarrassing? If that 's what you meant, then I agree, but the question remains, what's the real reason why Sondheim had a change of heart?

[quote]If that 's what you meant, then I agree, but the question remains, what's the real reason why Sondheim had a change of heart?

That's what I meant and we're in agreement. Sondheim would not want Lansbury to feel snubbed. Lansbury would not want to look like she had been dumped by the man who had written the show she was appearing in at the time. Awkward. All the way around. Ah, but if Billy Wilder - who created the movie - says it's not a good idea, how smart they both are to accept his advice.

As for why he discontinued the project, I suspect we will never know. He already gave us his answer. The one that gives him cover. But which we don't quite want to accept.

Will no one think of the poor Billy Wilder?

Sondheim's version of things paints a different picture

[quote]I never wrote anything for Sunset Boulevard... shortly after Forum, Burt Shevelove and I started to write a version of Sunset Boulevard. We got maybe an outline, I think, and just the beginnings of a first scene, and I happened to meet Billy Wilder at a cocktail party, and shyly said to him that a friend of mine and I were starting to make a musical of his movie, and he said, "Oh you can't do that," and I figured that he was going to say that we couldn't get the rights; but he went on to say, "It can't be a musical - it has to be an opera, because it's about a dethroned queen." And that seemed to me such a shrewd observation that I called Burt and said "Let's forget it, because I certainly don't want to do an opera."

[quote]Many years later after Night Music, Hugh Wheeler wanted to do it for Angie with Hal Prince. Hal had originally planned to do it with Andrew Lloyd Webber, but they had a financial falling-out, and then with Kander and Ebb, but he asked me if I would do it, and I told him the same anecdote, and he said "Well, let's do an opera then." And I said, "If I wanted to do an opera, that sounds like a perfectly possible idea, but I don't want to do an opera, and therefore I really don't want to do Sunset Boulevard."

I think the idea that the original creator of the work isn't fully supportive of your planned project is a pretty good reason to cease work. And one which I wish ALW had followed.

Didn’t Sondheim create the phrase “everything’s coming up roses”? That phrase was popular in American vernacular for several years.

I think if I were a composer and the man who owned the rights to the property I wanted to musicalize told me 'No' for any reason, and at any stage, I would not want to invest any more time in the matter. Move on. Move on.

Passion was the first Sondheim show I saw, which I found incredibly boring.

I already sense this new thread will consist largely of 1-2 people talking to themselves.

(PS: I'm not one of them.)

Andrew Lloyd Webber was the best choice for Sunset Boulevard. A stage version would have to be grandiose and Sondheim didn’t write music on that level. Can you see Norma singing “Losing My Mind” or Joe singing “Being Alive”? They’re just not songs that elevate the decline of a grand actress.

I wish Sondheim would have written a musical version of “The Women.” That is material that his lyrics would really elevate.

"I already sense this new thread will consist largely of 1-2 people talking to themselves."

Here they are.

Darling, anyone with any intelligence loves Sondheim. And we are all normal, simple people.

Some of us feel that Wilder's statement ("SUNSET BLVD. can't be a musical -- it has to be an opera, because it's about a dethroned queen") isn't "shrewd" at all, as Sondheim calls it, but rather is nonsensical blather, and actually kind of pretentious. On the other hand, both R9 and R11 have a point that if Wilder thought the project was a bad idea for whatever reason, no matter how wrong he might have been, one can understand why that might have been enough to cause Sondheim to abandon it.

[quote]Andrew Lloyd Webber was the best choice for Sunset Boulevard. A stage version would have to be grandiose and Sondheim didn’t write music on that level. Can you see Norma singing “Losing My Mind” or Joe singing “Being Alive”? They’re just not songs that elevate the decline of a grand actress.

If nothing, else, I would say there's lots of music and lyrics in SWEENEY TODD, and also maybe A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC and FOLLIES, that indicate Sondheim could have written a brilliant musical of SUNSET BLVD. News flash for you: Sondheim wrote in very different styles for his various shows, as appropriate.

I wonder if Lansbury, after playing Mrs. Lovett, would take on another crazy lady role? I think Murder She Wrote was the perfect next step in her career. She had shown great versatility in her acting from the sophistication of Mame to the crazy of Mrs. Lovett to the frumpiness of Jessica Fletcher.

Good Lord, R14! If Stephen Sondheim can write music for Sweeney Todd to go crazy by, then he could write music for Norma Desmond to go crazy by. If he could capture Broadway in the 20's, 30's, and 40's, then he could do the same for Hollywood.

He write a first-rate musical version of SUNSET BOULEVARD, if he chose to do so. And, let's just say it, at his worst, he's better than ALW at his very best moment, ever.

R19, thank you.

It's been done.

Sorry -- meant to address that to R14.

The Opposite Sex looks like it ought to be good fun. But... it isn't. Not really. Not much.

With One Look and As If We Never Said Goodbye are two of the best theatre songs ever written.

[Quote]Can you see Norma singing “Losing My Mind” or Joe singing “Being Alive”

Ummm, yes, absolutely.

Don't be silly, R24.

Loved him until the Lapine shows. Decent first acts with needless preachy second acts. He doesn't seem to write "songs" since then.

[quote] With One Look and As If We Never Said Goodbye are two of the best theatre songs ever written.

Welcome to DL, Lord Lloyd Webber! You should get back to your work now. All that wine's not gonna drink itself.

Sweeny Todd and Jesus Christ Superstar are my two favorite musicals.

I don't know who to back in this Steven/Andrew feud.

R29, you can like good Mexican food and also like Taco Bell. But liking Taco Bell is not enough to make it good Mexican food.

It's just crap and you like it. That's okay.

Finally got around to watching the remastered Pennebaker Original cast Album doc last night. The interview with Frank Rich and Jonathan Tunick and Sondheim makes the dvd invaluable. This was done on Zoom in December 2020 and Sondheim's mind is as nimble as ever. The flesh may be failing, but the brain is solid. I'd love to see Steve celebrate another Opening Night. I'm reminded of the opening night of "A Raisin In The Sun", when the audience was screaming "Author, Author" and Poitier jumped off the stage, swept Hansberry into his arms and then jumped back up. Nathan or Bernadette can't manage that, so I suppose someone like Ryan Steele would have to be cast to pull that off. But can he act?

Of course Ryan can act. He acts like he's enthralled with fading chorus boy Charlie Williams.

Are you saying JCS is crap r30?

As a staged play, I might allow you that, but the music is most certainly not crap.

[quote]Are you saying JCS is crap [R30]?

I am, indeed. The very best of it was filched from Frank Loesser. The rest is crap.

"Rosemary, Rosemary!"

"Jesus Christ, Superstar!"

OP, why bring "Missy" a/k/a Barbara Stanwyck into it? She was sensational in her musical numbers in "Lady of Burlesque".

Why doesn't Len Cariou get the diva/ok divo respect on DL as some great musical ladies? He gave one of the greatest performances on Broadway ever as Sweeney Todd and he was wonderful also in "A Little Night Music". Is he otherwise too normal off-stage?

And APPLAUSE. Don't forget APPLAUSE.

He fucked Lauren Bacall. He ought to get some props for daring to do that.

Was she the equivalent of a bossy bottom?

[quote]Was she the equivalent of a bossy bottom?

She was a mean top.

R34 thinks Frank Loesser invented the major triad.

[quote]Was she the equivalent of a bossy bottom?

The secret was that Lauren Bacall was really a man. Why do you think Jason Robards was a drinker?

Bogey would shoot you for saying that about Baby! Or implying that he was gay.

My friend worked on a project with Bacall. The first time he called her she screamed at him for being five minutes late. He hung up on her. She called back and apologized and they got along great after that. Sounds like she was a bully who backed down when confronted.

Only if she had no choice in the matter. She wanted to work with your friend so she apologized.

If he had been on the payroll of Woman of the Year, she would have had him fired.

Jesus, isn’t anyone in Hollywood a real woman anymore?

R45, Bacall adored Marilyn Cooper.

And who didn't, r47?

R38, Len went from Bacall's bed to Glenn Close's. How many men can say that?

R48, Linky stinky.

There still seems to be great confusion out there whether or not this new Sondheim/Ives project is based on a Bunuel film. But just the fact that Steve was once or possibly still is writing a new musical based on a Bunuel film should prove that creating a world-wide sensational mega-musical is not his priority. And just look at the obscure choices for most of his other source material over the years.

He could easily choose some popular and familiar1980s or 90s movie for source material but that's not where his heart lies. So please stop this silly argument about him regretting and craving a big commercial hit on his resume.

And Len Cariou's first wife was Roberta Maxwell, so he really ran the gamut.

I wonder what Len thought of Bacall's and Close's Oscar losses in 1997 and 2019, respectively, when they were supposed to be the surefire winner and then lost in a humiliating way?

Bacall and Marilyn Cooper were both from the same NYC Jewish working class generation so they had more in common than met the eye.

R37-Because Len is now, and always has been, a bitter prick. Short-tempered, vitriolic, and nasty. When he was asked to audition for La Cage in a frock, he told his agent, "Tell them to use their imagination".

[quote]The Opposite Sex looks like it ought to be good fun. But... it isn't. Not really. Not much.

True -- with all those DL icons (Miller! Collins! Gray! Allyson! Moorhead! Blondell! Pearce!) in one movie ... and MEH.

It's here, r50...

R55. Too bad because Len would have made a great ZaZa.

Frankly, with his resume, I can't believe Len Cariou was expected to audition for LA CAGE at all. He was wise to pass on the chance in any case.

R55, back in the 1980s I worked at STE, the agents for Cariou. He was by far the nastiest person on the phone I ever had to deal with. Lauren Bacall and Marg Helgenberger were also total bitches.

R52, Roberta Maxwell is a lesbian so I like to think Cariou had a hand in that.

To emphasis June's lush carnality, Helen Rose put her in a revealing slacks outfit with Peter Pan collar. It almost didn't get past the censors.

I hear Sondheim's writing a musical adaptation of Sisterhood Of The Traveling Pants instead of the Bunuel.

R56, How did Allyson and Blondell get along, past and present wives of Dick Powell?

I believe that Paramount has always controlled the rights to Sunset Blvd., not Wilder.

[quote] With One Look and As If We Never Said Goodbye are two of the best theatre songs ever written.

You’re kidding, right? Nice melodies but lame lyrics.

Sondheim's shows aren't aging well.

[quote]Roberta Maxwell is a lesbian so I like to think Cariou had a hand in that.

Pics please.

[quote]You’re kidding, right? Nice melodies but lame lyrics.

What's wrong with the lyrics? They actually sound like how people talk. And the rhymes are not forced, for the most part.

I've noticed that Sondheimites think that unless the lyrics have internal rhymes and every character sounds like a wordsmith, then it's a bad lyric. That's why they look down on Hammerstein, because he wrote for the vernacular, not to impress.

“With one look, I’ll be meeeeeee!”

More like "I’ll be maaaayyyyyyy!"

Norma was such a limited actress...what with her having only *one* look...and all.

R70 may be half joking, but "With one look, I play every part" does make it sound like Norma's saying she plays every part with one facial expression That's BAD lyrics writing. And the problem with "As If We Never Said Goodbye" is that it expresses a vulnerability that Norma would never express publicly. That's also BAD lyric writing. Any other questions?

R3: I've said it in previous TG threads, but I really wish Bart Sher would stage ALNM at the Beaumont with a full orchestra and something approaching the original set designs. After that, someone else can direct Pacific Overtures there with the original Boris Aronson designs.

R66, Are we talking fisting?

[quote]And the problem with "As If We Never Said Goodbye" is that it expresses a vulnerability that Norma would never express publicly. That's also BAD lyric writing. Any other questions?

But she's not expressing her thoughts/feelings publicly with that song; it's an internal monolog. Norma is not actually singing to the adoring extras in that scene.

Just because Sondheim wants a massive hit doesn't mean he knows how to do one. Who would have thought Hamilton would be the phenom it is.

I started checking runs of Sondheim shows, Original Broadway, not revival WSS 732

Gypsy 702

Funny Thing 964

Whistle 9

Waltz 220

Company 705

Follies 522

Night Music 601

Pacific Overtures 193

Sweeney Todd 557

Merrily 16

Sunday 604

Woods 765

Passion 280

So the TOTAL RUN of all his original production is just over 6000 and well below Wicked's 6836 before the shutdown. As for those who keep saying his productions are so ahead of their times that they can be best appreciated years after the fact, the revival numbers don't support that

WSS OC 732, Second NY run 249, Debbie Allen 333, 2009 748 (higher than the original)

Gypsy 702, Lansbury 102 (shocking), Daly 476, Peters 451, LuPone 332

Funny Thing 964, Phil Silvers 156, Whoopi 748

Company 705, Gaines 60, Esparza 246

Follies 522, Danner 117, Peters 151

Night Music 601, Lansbury 425

Sweeney 557, Gunton 189, Lupone 349

Woods 765, Williams 279

There is a market for these revivals among creatives because of Sondheim's reputation and talent but they are not crowd pleasers. The low number for Gypsy was a surprise to me.

They're not crowd pleasers to the masses, no. Those shows would be CATS, MAMMA MIA, PHANTOM, LES MIZ, CHORUS LINE. And he wouldn't want to write any of them.

And who, pray tell, looks down on Hammerstein?

Lansbury’s Gypsy was always planned as a limited run on Broadway following a lengthy US tour. I was lucky enough to see it in Houston, and it remains one of my favorite theatrical experiences. Yes, I’m old.

Worth posting again...

How long did Lansbury spend in the London GYPSY? It was significantly less than a year, right? I think Dolores Gray managed four months.

Hey theater queens: You can buy a ticket to the Tony Awards to see me win all of the awards! A ticket is only $1495.00

[quote]More like "I’ll be maaaayyyyyyy!"

First time I heard this, I wondered who Mae was.

I think it is pretty obvious why Sondheim backed off of Sunset.

He has always tried to avoid repeating himself.

Sunset is about the passing of time. It is about an actress who is forgotten. It is about youth rejecting age. The themes are too close to Follies. And even a bit like Night Music.

How could he do Sunset without evoking Follies?

Murray, r81.

R82 raises an excellent point.

After this famous photo? How indeed.

I don't know because I don't follow the grosses of shows, but is Hamilton truly a international smash (à la Wicked, The Lion King, Phantom) or is it mainly a US/Canada/UK/Aussie thing (i.e., English-speaking countries)?

Norma doesn't mean she has only ONE look, she's singing about ANY ONE of her infinite looks....

That's not what the lyricist wrote.

You can layer that sensible interpretation onto the lyric to patch it up a bit. And every actress playing Norma has had to do just that. Push through it. But it's badly written.

R86 I think that critic of ALW's Sunset takes things a little too literally. I bet s/he was also the poster who thought that Norma was literally addressing the crowds in 'As If We Never Said Goodbye."

r61, I was actually a client of STE in the early 1980s. Perhaps we spoke on the phone? My agent was originally Clifford Stevens but then he passed me on to John....somebody, spacing on his last name? Then John passed me onto a Richard.....something, I think. Oh, it was so long ago....

Do you know what became of that agent John? Tall dark-haired fellow, very nice guy......

I have NO idea what you're talking about, r89.

[quote]Hey theater queens: You can buy a ticket to the Tony Awards to see me win all of the awards! A ticket is only $1495.00

I wouldn't pay $10 even if you threw in a blowjob, Jer.

R90, I think R89's post was meant for R60.

R82 But Sondheim's interest came after A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, so he wouldn't have been repeating himself then.

Oh, shoot! Your'e right, r92, my post and question about STE was intended for r60. I hope he or she returns to answer me.

And btw, I worked with Len Cariou in the early 2000s and he was perfectly nice to me and everyone else.

R89, Richard Schmenner?

Has anyone ever done a musical based on Balzac’s novel “Cousin Bette”?

Len Cariou blew out his voice doing SWEENEY TODD, then followed it up with the notorious DANCE A LITTLE CLOSER. His Broadway credits after that: flop musical TEDDY AND ALICE, flop play THE SPEED OF DARKNESS, Neil Simon's weird THE DINNER PARTY (ran for a year but got little critical love), and -- finally -- 6 months as a replacement in PROOF.

His Off-Broadway credits, at least as collected in the Lortel Archive, are a collection of curiosities:

-- A SORROW BEYOND DREAMS (solo play that ran a few weeks in January 1977)

-- UP FROM PARADISE (the bizarre 1983 musical version of Arthur Miller's 1972 bomb THE CREATION OF THE WORLD AND OTHER BUSINESS, with lyrics by Miller and a cast including Alice Playten, Austin Pendleton and then-unknowns Walter Bobbie and Lonny Price)

-- MASTER CLASS (not the McNally Callas thing but a 1986 play in which Cariou's Stalin squared off against Philip Bosco's Zhdanov, Werner Klemperer's Prokofiev and Austin Pendleton's Shostakovich)

-- MEASURE FOR MEASURE (1989, downstairs at Lincoln Center; Cariou was Vincentio alongside the likes of Kate Burton, Ethyl Eichelberger, Campbell Scott, Lois Smith, Lorraine Toussaint, Jack Weston and Bradley Whitford)

-- MOUNTAIN (a 1990 play in which Cariou played long-serving Justice William Orville Douglas while 2 other actors played assorted "memories")

-- PAPA (a 1996 solo show, with Cariou as Hemingway)

-- THE PERSIANS (Aeschylus' play as revived in 2003 by Tony Randall's National Actors Theater; Cariou was Darius alongside Roberta Maxwell, Michael Potts and Michael Stuhlbarg)

-- HARRY TOWNSEND'S LAST STAND (a 2019 two-hander with Craig Bierko as Cariou's son . . . I seem to remember that there were problems leading to Bierko's leaving midway through the short run)

Cariou has been on the Tom Selleck's tv show "Blue Bloods" for many years. A friend of mine who works for the show says that he is very nice to work with.

R60-Roberta was a closet ;lesbian for most of her life until her Dad passed. Then, and only then, did she emerge.

Len's maybe mellowed with age or figures that he's nowhere near the top dog on a TV set.

Len Cariou came to Broadway after several respectable seasons of playing leads in classic theater in the 1960s at the Guthrie and other first class regional theaters. I really don't think he was ever heavily invested into commercializing his career by taking on work he didn't believe in. Granted, there are more than a few shows on his resume that are questionable choices but none of those jobs could be labeled as fueling star-making ambitions.

He always presented a very warm and grounded masculine presence in musicals.

r95, yes, thanks! Richard Schmenner was the junior agent in the early 1980s at STE who briefly represented me. Just couldn't recall his last name. I remember seeing him often at Broadway openings, escorting mature single lady clients like Elizabeth Wilson, Lois de Banzie and Dana Ivey.

The most interesting character in Sunset Boulevard is Hog Eye.

Interesting point, R82, but I would say there are still lots of differences between the stories of characters of FOLLIES and SUNSET BLVD. that I doubt Sondehim's fear of "repeating himself" was his reason for deciding not to pursue SUNSET.

The "with one look" criticism is a reach. "With One Look" is basically the same as saying "I'm Every Woman / It's All In Me" and if you can't discern that, I'd suggest that you're seeing what you want to see to support your agenda. And I say that as someone who thinks the Sunset Boulevard musical is not good. If they ever adapt it for the big screen (and why bother other than to cap Glenn's screen career), they should just only retain Norma's songs and make everything else underscoring.

[quote]I think that critic of ALW's Sunset takes things a little too literally. I bet s/he was also the poster who thought that Norma was literally addressing the crowds in 'As If We Never Said Goodbye."

Okay, I'll accept that the staging of that song does indicate it's supposed to be an interior monologue. but I don't think it's completely clear. And I still think some of the lyrics are not very good, because they're too generic.

"With one look, I play every part" means only one thing -- Norma has only one facial expression. That's not what the lyricist MEANT to convey, but that's what he DID convey.

No. It doesn't. It means one look from me contains a multitude.

Will Tony Award tickets be on tkts?

Shit, they'll be on TDF. Just like Slave Play.

To respond to the OPPOSITE SEX hate: I think it’s one of those things that can’t overcome its initial reception. In this case, the principal reason for that reception was that it didn’t use Ms. Luce’s oh-so-clever (?) gimmick of limiting the cast to only the one sex. Gimmick it was, but to no particular end (except its obvious publicity value). I’m not saying that the OS is not fairly tasteless and at times fairly stupid, but I defy anyone who doesn’t find Dolores Gray superior to Miss R. Russell and Joan Collins, Charlotte Greenwood and Agnes Moorehead at least equal to their counterparts. Yes, the Dick Shawn number is intolerable and June Allyson her usual annoying self, but for entertainment, I’ll take this over THE WOMEN any day.

Two further examples: TWO-FACED WOMAN and MYRA BRECKENRIDGE. Discuss.

It baffles that Dolores and Ann aren't even given one production number.

What is tkts and TDF?

What's a drive-in?

[quote] What is tkts and TDF?

TDF = Theatre Development Fund

tkts = a booth in Manhattan’s theater district that sells discounted tickets to Broadway shows nobody wants to pay full price to see.

R115 Thanks!

R102: I think you mean Brenda De Banzie, no?.

Brenda was a Brit, no? I don't think she lived stateside. Lois, OTOH...

Lois was Scottish but she made the move.

"...but I defy anyone who doesn’t find Dolores Gray superior to Miss R. Russell"

We're a large and vocal group, r111. Your defiance means little in the face of Roz's performance being a recognized classic.

R115 and R116, TDF (Theatre Development Fund) is a membership organization through which you can get discounted tickets at a lower price than at TKTS which is a discount ticket booth in Times Square (and Lincoln Center but that one has not reopened yet) and is part of the TDF organization.

TKTS sells discounted tickets to Off-Broadway shows as well. Concerts too but there doesn't seem to be any concerts offered today.

R77, Lansbury's Gypsy was indeed planned as a limited run but they started extending the dates and even bumped The Wiz from its opening at the Winter Garden. But the grosses soon plummeted and it closed.

Just prior to ALNM, Len Cariou starred with the luminous Joan Hackett in the 121 performance flop Night Watch.

Later filmed with Elizabeth Taylor and Laurence Harvey.

Elizabeth Taylor got too many opportunities.

R89, I worked at STE in the late 80s and Richard Schmenner was a senior agent by then. Extremely nice man. Clifford was OK. I loved Tex Beha, who generally handled the soap actors. She was very cool.

I think Cariou may have been selective in terms of who he treated like shit. I’m sure he’s fine with other actors. But for those in jobs like myself, in positions he felt subservient to him, he was an utter bastard.

Lois de Banzie was fairly ubiquitous in NY theater and NY based films in the 1970s and 80s, maybe even into the 90s. She never played the lead, usually just small secondary roles, most often spinsters, bureaucrats, sisters-in-law, all the roles Mary Louise Wilson probably turned down.

Didn't Cariou walk out on his part in a play not long ago. The run hadn't even finished.

r126, thanks for your response re STE. I guess the agent whose name I'm trying to remember, John ____?____, was gone by the time you got to the agency. Was it John Comerford? That name just came to me. I was only a client from 1979 to 1981, IIRC. I always wondered what became of John as he was kind and supportive. I suppose he might have died, but hoping not.....

R128. Craig Bierko left and,allegedly, Len didn’t want to rehearse with his replacement who just happened to be Angie Lansbury’s nephew. Things got ugly and it made the papers.

Thanks, r130. Was the replacement a complete newbie?

R130. Nope. David Lansbury has been around for a while and was married to Ally Sheedy (that must have been fun). I think the play closed thanks to Covid but I could be wrong. I think David only played a week or two before it shutdown.

In line with R69 and R81, Ethan Mordden's history of the British musical entitled its chapter on Lloyd Webber "With One Look I'll Be May." No explanation provided.

So apparently this is a joke well established among theater buffs?

Will anyone, other than the most rabid theater queen, watch the Tonys?

I would hope this year would turn off even the most rabid theater queen since the Tonys are a slap in the face to any theater fan.

Theater queens love a good vicious slap even if they are on receiving end. It’s delightfully dramatic.

Someone in music theatre circles posted a personal letter from Stephen Sondheim on social media--I'll see if I can find a link. SS wrote it in June-July of this year. Sondheim mentions that he is working on a new musical, and yes, it's based on a Bunuel film. So yes, I think it's safe to assume that "Square One" is that show.

Sondheim had been working on adapting 2 Bunuel films for years: "The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie" and "The Exterminating Angel." The latter was recently adapted as an opera by others. So my money is that "Square One" is indeed an adaptation of "Bourgeoisie."

Anyone who knows that film might understand how a title song like "Square One" might make sense. I'm getting a surrealist vibe plus a dash of "A Little Night Music."

This has been interesting reading about Cariou. I had no idea he had such a reputation and his choice of shows took an odd turn after the 70s when he had three Tony nominations with one win.

If you've seen him on "Blue Bloods", he's got dentures or a mouth of veneers or some sort of dental work that really do not fit and they look ridiculous.

R135 how do you mean?

He's got the requisite Hollywood chicklet teeth.

R130 what did Len have against Angela's nephew? I figured they were on good terms, since he had a recurring role on MURDER, SHE WROTE.

[quote]No. It doesn't. It means one look from me contains a multitude.

That's a ridiculous stretch. "With one look, I can break your heart" is a fine lyric. "With one look, I play every part" is an awful, confused lyric.

It's ridiculous to conclude that she's saying: "I can look so pitiful that it would break your heart. Oh, and I use that pitiful countenance when I'm performing pratfalls as well."

I think Len Cariou didn't want to go through the exhausting work of rehearsing with another actor in a two-hander while playing the show with a different actor at night.

Exhausting? Was he tapping?

R145, Well, he does turn 82 this month.

After Bacall had been seeing Cariou regularly for a while, young son Sam allegedly asked "Is he your new plaything, Mother?" .

R145 doesn't understand how actors work.

The problem for Len Cariou was simply that he knew the play was awful, audiences weren't coming and he thought the idea of bringing in a new actor was a stupid financial decision. He knew that after putting in the extra rehearsal time on the show, which was playing in a tiny off-Broadway theater and paying peanuts, would close in a few weeks, anyway. It had nothing to do with David Lansbury. Did any of you see the play? Have any of you even heard of the play? Can you really blame Len?

Makes perfect sense to me.

^^^ this.

I worked on a production starring Carious in the mid 1990's. The production was not successful and the experience could not have been a great one for him. But he was a perfect gentlemen to everyone involved. It was a treat to work with him.

He and Victoria were fucking on ALNM

David Lansbury was with Ally Sheedy... I bet he has some stories.

[quote]It's ridiculous to conclude that she's saying: "I can look so pitiful that it would break your heart. Oh, and I use that pitiful countenance when I'm performing pratfalls as well."

Again, that's not what the lyricist MEANT for the character to express, but unfortunately, it's what he wrote. There is no other reasonable interpretation of "With one look, I play every part." It's a garbage lyric, probably the first thought the lyricist came up with. And then he never bothered to change it because he couldn't think of anything better, so he just left it and hoped that people like you wouldn't notice that it makes no sense.

[quote] There is no other reasonable interpretation of "With one look, I play every part."

I always thought that was a play on the word “look”. She meant that silent movie stars had the same look (hair and costume) whether they were playing the girl tied to the railroad track as in Perils of Pauline or playing Jane in a Tarzan movie. The men could have different looks according to the part they were playing but the women always looked either virginal ingenue or older character actress.

Regarding the Square One/Bunuel confusion, this is from the NYT, 16 September:

[quote]“Square One” is a version of a project that Sondheim and Ives have been thinking about for years, but had set aside while they tried to write a musical adaptation of two films by Luis Buñuel.

Welcome to DL, R151/Len!

Not even close, R157.

How do you get by in the world when you are not anonymous? Poor guy.

"And the next thing you know, Ethel Merman's stuffing your cabbage."

[Quote] Again, that's not what the lyricist MEANT for the character to express, but unfortunately, it's what he wrote

If your interpretation was the most reasonable or obvious one, audiences would laugh at that lyric but they don't.

[quote] [R135] how do you mean?

Just that with the abbreviated season, the joke nominations to fill out some categories, the absence of viable names for others meaning someone undeserving gets an award and scratching shows from eligibility which had great work in them means these awards are a complete farce and insulting to anyone who is a real follower and fan of Broadway. And after all the fake pomp they put into the nominations, no one gives a shit and everyone knows it's a mess.

They should have just waited and combined them with whatever they manage to get up and running this season.

The Sunset Blvd lyrics are truly shite.

You know what you can do with your vicuna, R162.

Incidentally, my favorite musical Joe Gillis was Alan Campbell. What a blonde angel he was!

"Andrew Lloyd Webber was the best choice for Sunset Boulevard.:

The fact that ALW could write a contemporary BACKBEAT into a song for Norma Desmond, a character trapped in amber, a relic, a dinosaur, only demonstrates what little affinity he had for the character or the period. Listen to Carl Davis' soundtrack to the documentary HOLLYWOOD, if you want to hear an accurate pastiche of the silent movie sound.

"I would hope this year would turn off even the most rabid theater queen since the Tonys are a slap in the face to any theater fan."

As is perusing tomorrow's Arts & Leisure section about the new season. What a truly dispiriting, depressing read. Having endured both it and a first viewing of The Greatest Showman in the same evening just about done me in.

"So apparently this is a joke well established among theater buffs?"

Not really. It's just a reference to the misjudged vowel form a certain actress employed when singing the last note of the song in order to place (and sustain) it with a measure of security.

I saw Bryan Batt play Joe Gillis. MARY!

Isn't he a little... swishy for the part?

"Swishy" is such an unpleasant word, R167. We would say he's a little "light" for the part.

or "fey" is sometimes used

or in Bryan's case, faygelah.

Or in Bryan's case, too good for the role and the awful show.

R171 please! He was woefully miscast.

Does anyone know what the play CLYDE is about? Does it have anything to do with Bonnie & Clyde?

[quote] Does anyone know what the play CLYDE is about? Does it have anything to do with Bonnie & Clyde?

No. It's the name of a truck stop restaurant, which is staffed by formerly incarcerated workers, trying to rebuild their lives. It had been previously named Floyd's, but the title was changed so as not to make audiences think it was about George Floyd.

I thought the “look” she was referring to was the look she could give the camera, the power of her eyes to convey emotion.

Happier times

From City of Angels

Norma Desmond did not perform pratfalls.

Doesn't Gloria Swanson famously parody a Charlie Chaplin pratfall in the film of Sunset Boulevard?

I'm still bitter Swanson didn't win the Oscar even though I was born fifty years later.

Sondheim had a good run on Broadway.

And probably made a chunk of change off the Into The Woods movie (which I hated.)

And your point?

My point?

Into The Woods was a misguided cash grab (both the stage and screen versions.)

I think it was a mistake to let Disney anywhere near Into the Woods, but I don't think Sondheim has ever done anything for the cash.

What I hated about Into The Woods (going back to the original stage version) is that Sondheim thought he was so clever deconstructing classic fairytales when the original stories were pretty twisted and insightful to begin with. They didn't need Sondheim to make them edgy. His take on them was redundant (and irritating.)

Don't you mean Lapine's take? And I thought the stories adhered pretty closely to the Grimm versions.

Honestly, some of you queens would like nothing better than a Broadway revival of ANKLES AWEIGH.

And deserve nothing better.

At least Sondheim has never done anything as forgettable as Miss Saigon. At least he didn't fall into that trap.

Miss Saigon is not forgettable. It continues to be popular worldwide. Lea Salonga retains her popularity due to that role.

Lea Salonga, God bless her.

And I applaud Miss Saigon for an extremely successful run.

But why, oh why, is the music so forgettable?

[quote]“Square One” is a version of a project that Sondheim and Ives have been thinking about for years, but had set aside while they tried to write a musical adaptation of two films by Luis Buñuel.

Yes, but that conflicts with the letter from Sondheim, dating from just a few months ago, that someone reproduced in which he specifically states that he and Ives are back at work on the Bunuel. Unless the truth is that they are back at work on the Bunuel and ALSO on another, unrelated piece called SQUARE ONE, which seems unlikely.

[quote]If your interpretation was the most reasonable or obvious one, audiences would laugh at that lyric but they don't.

I'm guessing they don't laugh at it because it goes by fairly quickly, and/or they don't understand what those words actually mean, just as you and the lyricist apparently don't understand. If you feel you do understand, can you briefly explain how "With one look, I play every part" could be interpreted other than "I use the the same patented facial expression in every role I play?"

[quote]The fact that ALW could write a contemporary BACKBEAT into a song for Norma Desmond, a character trapped in amber, a relic, a dinosaur, only demonstrates what little affinity he had for the character or the period.

Almost as bad as the use of "Think of Me" in PHANTOM. That song is very modern in its rhythms and lyrics, yet it's supposed to be an aria from an opera that's being performed in Paris in the 1880s. Of course, it's probably a trunk song, so ALW was determined to use it no matter what.

[quote]Miss Saigon is not forgettable. It continues to be popular worldwide.

It's still performed because audiences still respond to the basic story, which has always been compelling (as in MADAMA BUTTERLY) but which is not original. The music is third-rate hack work at best, and the lyrics are even worse.

[quote]I'm guessing they don't laugh at it because it goes by fairly quickly, and/or they don't understand what those words actually mean....

All of that. But even more, give credit to the poor actress up there plowing through this mud. She is adding the visual and dramatic elements, all on her own, that the lyrics cannot conjure. In the original productions, even the sets and costumes seemed too big and heavy for Norma. She alone had the opportunity to make any of it come alive.

It is much like SESAME STREET LIVE or the old BUGS BUNNY arena tours for kids. On their own, the costumes just lie there and do nothing. But with actors in them, they come alive and the kids were enchanted.

SUNSET BOULEVARD is a lot like BUGS BUNNY IS SPACE in that regard. Much too much like it.

[quote]I thought the “look” she was referring to was the look she could give the camera, the power of her eyes to convey emotion.

I'm sure that's what the lyricist intended, but that's not what "With ONE look, I play every part" means. I seem to remember reading that one of the famous silent screen stars, maybe it was Theda Bara, was famous for "the look," so maybe that's what the SUNSET lyricist was thinking of. But I still think the phrasing is awkward and confusing.

"Into The Woods was a misguided cash grab (both the stage and screen versions.)"

Wasn't it SS himself who admitted that the reason for ITW's success was the giant boot atop the marquee of the Martin Beck Theatre? Until then, biz had been so-so. Or that's how I heard the story.

"The music is third-rate hack work at best, and the lyrics are even worse."

And still remains head and shoulders above The Miserables.

"The woods are just trees! The trees are just wood!"

Quite possible the worst lyrics in the history of Broadway.

Oh no, R197! Let's not open a big fight about that.

I think we can all agree that ALW and Schonberg and Boubil can all be consigned to the artistic bottom tier of theater composers. Let's, please, just leave it at that. Otherwise, it's just a discussion of what is worse, a rotten onion or a rotten shallot? Does it matter?

[quote] At least Sondheim has never done anything as forgettable as Miss Saigon.

Some of Miss Saigon is nice.

I really like “I Still Believe.”

I will forever love Will Chase as 'Chris' in the 2000 Manila production with Lea Salonga. Boy, was he HOT in that!

[quote]Has anyone ever done a musical based on Balzac’s novel “Cousin Bette”?

I simply will not tolerate musicals based on DIRTY BOOKS!

Stevie Sez: Spielberg's version is better!

Or are they just reading too much into this?

Speaking of Mrs. Shinn ...

Kristi Dawn mashes up Harold Hill and Eulalie.

I wouldn't necessarily hang my hat on the Sondheim letter, in which he says he and Ives are "back in the [Bunuel] saddle." Ifhe said it, it's true, but he and Ives were also working on another musical, which may be the one that's ready first. Some people (who may or may not know) believe he's developing two or three projects.

R203 take what Sondheim says with a grain of salt. He also gave raves to the Sweeney Todd movie.

I doubt that Spielberg's version is better in general. I do believe it's better for the world we are living in now.

Each can be appreciated and those of us who grew up with the original film (first film) version are not wrong if we prefer it. We grew up in a different time and for that time, it is wonderful.

For Sondheim, it's all about the Benjamins.

That's a completely ludicrous statement, r208.

For a man who is so very particular about his work he gives praise to this?

You are deluded if you think SS doesn't care about money.

It's ridiculous to argue about this. Believe whatever you like.

Nobody said he doesn’t care about money but to say he is “all about” it, is just moronic.

Sondheim is the McDonald's of pretentious Broadway musicals.

jesus.

Oh, thanks for giving us your permission r211 you pretentious cunt.

Sondheim had nice things to say about my book. I sent him an advance copy.

r215: unless you're r208, I wasn't addressing you. But now I am: fuck off.

Want to say what your book is?

Noooooo, don't ask that. Don't turn it into an opportunity to self-promote!!

We do not want to know!!! We don't care!!!

[quote] Want to say what your book is?

A study of men who have basement dungeons and the boys who can’t quit them.

Sondheim's elitist Jew snark hasn't aged well.

Is Anybodys in WSS trans?

There is no point Sondheimites arguing with people who love only traditional musicals and therefore think he is pretentious, or "elitist" in modern hillbilly parlance. It is like NYT readers arguing with Fox News viewers. Neither side is going to shift.

Which of these return musicals will be the first to close? I'm betting on GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY. (Although I never miss a Bob Dylan musical.)

elitist jew snark? oh, my.

Company.

Oh dear.

R223 the thing is, you are insulting Southern hillbillies, which you equate with rightwing politics, but the truth is that those trying to deny Sondheim's significance to Broadway are radical leftwingers.

Check out r221's other posts, r225. You're in for a treat.

Sondheim's written a few decent songs. I'll give him that.

Anybodies in the new WWS movie is being played by Ezra Menas (who was in Jagged Little Pill). I think they have gone from identifying as trans to non-binary and now uses the name Iris. Incredibly talented performer who should be great in the role.

R229 I’m sure Sondheim is quite relieved.

I think his main problem is that Sondheim is a frustrated opera composer. He didn't have the nerve to fully challenge himself that way. So Broadway was his consolation.

[quote]the truth is that those trying to deny Sondheim's significance to Broadway are radical leftwingers.

Well the words I'm seeing flung around this thread are "pretentious" and "elite", along with the persistent accusation that not having a multi-year sellout at the box office is the same thing as not being any good. How any of these sentiments are consistent with the radical left I am at a loss to know.

R233 because the radical left hates anyone who is white cis male, which is what Sondheim is.

Sondheim writes from a bubble.

Does he actually know real people outside his small circle? Does he have any authentic life experience?

Thanks for noticing me r217

Good question r235.

He's an elitist snob. Sweeney Todd is a common man story but most of what Sondheim wrote is for the effete crowd.

R222, Maria is trans. But don't tell Tony. It would kill him.

R233, that's a simple statement that his works are not as popular as some think they are. The numbers back that up but Sondheimites can't accept that. It's not high opera, it's Broadway. It's fun to discuss Follies, but that show has no relevance to anyone under 50 and it's also likely that anyone who saw the original is either dead or over 70. Sondheim himself wondered where his legacy will be in the future. Since his works were never very popular to begin with, it's a legit thought from someone facing the grim reaper.

[quote] But don't tell Tony. It would kill him.

I took care of it.

Sondheim is 91 and based on his Colbert appearance not in robust health.

How much new composing do we really believe he's capable of at this point?

It's keeping his brain active, for chrissakes.

I'll admit I'm one of the ones stirring the pot talking shit about Sondheim but he is brilliant, that cannot be denied. It's just unfortunate that he has been in an elitist bubble while creating,but I understand.

He didn't want to create for Broadway the way his mentor did, he wanted to elevate it but is that what musicals are? Were they ever meant to be elevated theater? I wouldn't never have said so, it seemed they were for the common "man" to enjoy and escape from life for a while. Sondheim adamantly refused to go that route and from what I've heard him say about himself, he couldn't go that route. He does not write songs people can hum while walking down the street, he can't write like that or believes he can't.

Sondheim wrote for himself and his personality. He's not a romantic or an optimist. Maybe he should adapt Fifty Shades of Grey into a musical or Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty books.

Never married, no children/grandchildren, no siblings, no nieces/nephews.

Who's getting Sondheim's money?

Depending on how well he takes care of himself he could go much longer.

Elliott Carter a modern classical composer lived to 103 and was working almost until he died.

I don't think Sondheim is motivated by money, at this point.

He's estimated to be worth $20-$25 million (a pittance by Hollywood standards, but a comfortable life for an elderly man who own his own home and lives rather modestly). Sondheim is married--to his partner, Jeff Romley. No other heirs.

Per WIki:

Sondheim has been described as introverted and solitary. In an interview with Frank Rich, he said, "The outsider feeling—somebody who people want to both kiss and kill—occurred quite early in my life". He did not come out as gay until he was 40.[12] He lived with dramatist Peter Jones for eight years in the 1990s. He lived with dramatist Peter Jones for eight years in the 1990s.

Who is Peter Jones? What was that all about?

BTW, he would have been 40 and coming out around 1970, just around COMPANY.

Oscar Hammerstein II elevated musical theatre and so has Stephen Sondheim.

Len Cariou's biggest gripe is he never thought the general public appreciated his genius. "Night Watch" got respectable reviews but not for him personally, so he left the production early in the run. You'll notice there are very few clips anywhere of his performance in "Sweeney Todd". Anytime there's a clip from the show on social media, it's George Hearn people see, not Len. Critics didn't like his Hemmingway play and he was quite vocal about that. It did suck, though. And he thought he lowered himself when he appeared in a Neil Simon play.

Len started getting angry at the world after he found his main squeeze Glenn Close in bed with Kevin Kline, when he surprised her on location of "The Big Chill". He drank too much scotch and he was also smoking Benson and Hedges, both of which fucked up his voice. He lives in NJ, which would piss off anyone off. If you look at his early films, like "The Four Seasons", his teeth are normal size and small. Why he got those horrid veneers or implants, or whatever the hell they are, God only knows. His career will undoubtedly finish with "Blue Bloods", which must really burn his gourd. But it must be great money.

[quote] Len Cariou's biggest gripe is he never thought the general public appreciated his genius.

At least he’s not remembered for The Brady Bunch.

Fuck you R250. I almost got the gig if BB went another season.

Liberals are truly destroying the U.S. entertainment industry (Hollywood & Broadway) with their outrageous views on science and biology. Asia is laughing at us. It used to be I was ashamed of the right, but the left are now making me cringe as well.

Poor 252.

You poor poor baby.

R249, people see clips of George Hearn in SWEENEY TODD because he did the tour which was filmed and later the concert which was televised.

He is married, r244. He had two siblings, but I think at least one has died. He has innumerable godchildren, and some close friends he might remember in his will for various reasons. Steve Clar and Peter Jones are friends who have worked for him for years. He has a 50-year history with the Young Playwrights foundation of the Dramatists' Guild, and no doubt other interests he's supported with his time and his money.

Can we call r252 Cringey McCringerson? How does your cringing manifest itself, r252? Is it like hives...or a seizure?

Hoping for hives AND a seizure.

Btw, I believe Mia Farrow is going to be part of the new Sondheim show.

Mia's Peter

Cariou has said in interviews that he would have done the tour of SWEENEY TODD if he knew it was going to be filmed, but that deal wasn't in place when it was time to sign up or not.

[quote]Btw, I believe Mia Farrow is going to be part of the new Sondheim show.

WHAT??????? I hope that's some sort of weird, failed joke.

[quote]Asia is laughing at us.

R252 = Margaret White.

R187 Well you can always watch Lew Parker as Ann Marie's Dad on "That Girl" getting all dyspeptic with Donald Hollinger owning Marvin Gardens while playing a game of Monopoly to tide you over until the revival of "Ankles Aweigh" alights on Broadway again!

Not a joke, r260. Quasi-reliable information. I guess we'll find out soon enough whether it's true.

Also hearing Baranski.

Mia Farrow has a very small voice (and that song at R258 is mawkish crap) but she does remind me a bit of Glynnis Johns. So it's not completely insane that Sondheim would consider her for a role in his musical. I wonder if they're friends?

Has Sondheim ever encountered Woody Allen? Two aging titans of NYC culture, yet it's as if they never were aware of one another.

R243 Oscar Hammerstein had already elevated musical theater all the way back to "Show Boat". True, the work is full of coincidental meetings, but it's still a wonderful show.

They are very close friends.

^Mia and Sondheim? Or Woody Allen and Sondheim?

Mia and Sondheim.

This is sweet....

But Ronan was smart to pursue other avenues.

Cariou was very bad casting in Dance a Little Closer aka Close a Little Faster. He had zero sex appeal to play a sleazy nightclub singer. Not that it would have mattered in the end but that role had Robert Goulet’s name all over it. Also Cariou’s voice was shot by Sweeney Todd by then.

Dreadful.

Sondheim had siblings? You're insane.

It's really a shame hearing about Cariou's voice.

George Hearn was very good in SWEENEY, but Cariou's performance will always be the definitive one for me. Powerful, heartbreaking.

And none of the others have ever come close.

Sondheim grew up an only child, but I believe his father may have remarried. Anyone?

I agree that he seems like the type to endow the arts in his will. (Please god, don't let him leave it to some freaking college or university, though.)

I saw Cariou in "Dance a Little Closer" during previews, and it's true, he sounded really bad. He had been incredible in "Sweeney". Did his voice ever recover in musicals after that? Btw, that show was so bad, George Rose even seemed bad in it.

Don't be stupid, r272. The fact that you're not aware of something doesn't make it "insane." Two younger brothers, the children of his dad's second marriage.

I had never before heard, and am very sorry to hear now, that Sondheim is good friends with Mia. Even IF one believes that her allegations regarding Woody and Dylan are true, I think Mia still comes across as shrill, relentless, and mentally and emotionally unbalanced.

2005

I, for one, would seriously question Sondheim's taste if he were friends with Woody Allen.

What is "elitist" about A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM, ANYONE CAN WHISTLE, PACIFIC OVERTURES, INTO THE WOODS and ASSASINS?

Sondheim is extremely loyal to his friends.

Woody is not guilty of any wrongdoing. They have tried every which way to try him, but he has never been convicted or tried for any wrongdoing. Mia and her spawn are just clutching at straws to taint his name at this point.

282 needs to do a search for the judges write up on Woody's behavior with his daughter. It doesn't leave him looking innocent.

Is there any Woody project that would make a good musical other than the one that is a musical.

[quote]Is there any Woody project that would make a good musical other than the one that is a musical.

And that did not make a good musical.

The definitive Losing My Mind

Beyond definitive, r285...

Thank you, Raquel, for showing me how I should have handled that song.

R283 the fact remains that Woody has never been convicted nor tried in a trial by his jurors of any wrongdoing.

And to what judge's write-up are you alluding?

Mia Farrow is simply a woman scorned.

The only thing Woody is guilty of is being socially awkward which makes him misunderstood and an easy target.

r288 they did an investigation into the charges against Woody. The child was interviewed, experts were consulted evidence was weighed. A judge wrote the findings of the court, I read it, it is very damning. It was on the internet and it was linked to here on Datalounge one of the many times we discussed this, that's how I came to read it.

R&H elevated musical theater but were also commercially successful.

Right r290, most socially awkward men get little girls to take their underpants off and sit in their la0p.

Not to circle back to the "With One Look" discussion, it's by no means a distinguished lyric, but isn't it obvious "look" is being used a verb? She means "with one look" at the camera, not a singular facial expression. The earliest version of the song was even called "With One Glance" per Elaine Paige's wikipedia bio:

[quote] Paige was the first Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard to sing one of the show's key songs, "With One Look", which she did first at Lloyd Webber's wedding to Madeleine Gurdon, although at the time the song was called "Just One Glance".

That's all it took.

[quote]which she did first at Lloyd Webber's wedding

He's just unrelentingly tacky, isn't he?

R293. You were there???? Please, tell us more.

Please do. I can't bear another screed on the subject of Woody Allen's alleged guilt.

No r297 it was in the judges court write up.

You can defend Woody but just know you are defending a man who took advantage of a child.

If you want to spend more time being stubborn about this why not start a thread about it.

Now let's stop cluttering up this theatre thread with Woody debate. Moving on. . .

But first: what in the name of god is a "judges court write up"?

If the write-up was so damning why was Woody found not guilty by one of the most respected clinics specializing in sexual abuse in the nation?

Sondheim's parents divorced when he was a teen. His father remarried and he has much younger half brothers and nephews/nieces. I'm thinking he might leave control of the artistic to estate to Steve Clar and Peter Jones who will curate it rather than just hawk it out for as much money as possible.

Does Emily Loesser control her dad’s shows now that the Widow Loesser is gone?

Some of you bastards really need to clean up your commentary. You have some fucking nerve tossing around extremely damaging words you do not understand and making accusations that are unsupported.

Woody Allen has never had charges brought against him related in any way to Mia Farrow's children the children he shared with Mia Farrow. A district attorney does an investigation, brings charges based on violations of criminal law, seeks an indictment from a grand jury, and then sees the matter through to the end in a court of criminal law. Both Connecticut and New York received the allegations from Mia Farrow and some of her children. Both states conducted investigations. Neither state thought that the allegations made were credible. Neither state decided to take any action against Woody Allen. The investigators in Connecticut concluded that the children were likely coached by Mia Farrow.

In a New York City court, Woody Allen then sought custody of the three children he shared with Mia Farrow. His petition was hotly contested by Mia Farrow. It was the subject of enormous publicity. That's the proceeding that produced the judge's report that found both Woody Allen and Mia Farrow to be extremely problematic parents.

Labeling someone a child molester, or just making vague allusions to it is a heinous thing to do. It is in no way comparable to bitching about SUNSET BOULEVARD. Please, take your "Pick a Little, Talk a Little" approach to child welfare and shove it. The frivolous way these serious matters have been bandied about is repugnant.

i hope Mr. Allen's attorneys serve Muriel with subpoenas for all the IP addresses in the offending posts above. They can, ya know. All of you making those comments, when serious, official, investigations have found the allegations to be not credible and unsupported by the facts, deserve to be sued for defamation. And I hope you are.

Ohhh, gurl....

R304 has stated her boundaries.

Unless you're discussing a Woody Allen play, please take your inane Woody Allen Scandal chat to another thread.

Thank YOU!

I'm just endlessly fascinated by the idea of Mia constantly singing "Not While I'm Around" to Ronan. That reveals an awful lot, no?

Oh dear, r304. Somebody needs their Nervine.

Nice to know Soon-Yi is a DLer, and one with balls.

R280 Yeah, I don't really get the "elitist" nonsense. Unless by elitist, idiots mean "intelligent, well-crafted, polished, sophisticated".

Forum is a silly farce with smutty jokes galore. Follies is a show business story centered on two couples with relationship problems. Sweeney Todd is a gory murder melodrama. Into The Woods is classic fairy tales. Assassins is about presidential assassins.

Yes, Company is very New York insidery. ALNM is based on a Bergman film (but, really, it's just a romantic musical with pretty costumes). Passion is an arty chore. Pacific Overtures isn't your run of the mill Broadway musical and neither is Sunday in the Park with George.

But, that's what great artists do....they make challenging works of art.

"… I have no fear, nor no one should The woods are just trees The trees are just wood"

It's not a stupid lyric. It's sung by a young girl nervous about venturing into the scary woods. She's reciting a mantra to reassure herself.

It's actually a terrific lyric.

DL fave Viv Vance was fired during the out of town tryout of Woody’s Don’t Drink the Water.

For all the maroons who poo poo Sondheim and his projected legacy and position as one of the great musical artists, if Sondheim is such a terrible, elitist, unpopular hack then why is he the most talked about composer on all 438 threads of the Theatre Gossip series?

As for Sondheim's comments on the Spielberg film, that's what Sondheim ALWAYS does and that's what most professionals in show business tend to do....publicly support each other's work especially if it's something that reflects back on the original work.

PUBLICLY. Now, privately, that's a different story.

People who publicly bad mouth work, get bad reputations in the Business and people don't like working with them.

As for money, there's nothing that indicates Sondheim is particularly greedy. He really doesn't need to be. He has a large catalogue of work that generate considerable amounts of money every year via royalties and that's not going to change in the forseeable future. There are Sondheim shows being produced all over the world every day. High schools, colleges, community and regional theaters all need shows to produce and they like doing good shows that are fun to produce and audiences can enjoy.

Sondheim has been friends with Mia for years. They're neighbors up in their respective homes in the country.

The two of them used to dine out together all the time back in the 90's.

I bet she doesn't have to Google Image Search Sondheim with "Mia Farrow's friend with the eye bags."

"if Sondheim is such a terrible, elitist, unpopular hack then why is he the most talked about composer on all 438 threads of the Theatre Gossip series?"

Because this is fucking DL which has thousands of threads on "Follies".

Thousands, r316?

[quote]Not to circle back to the "With One Look" discussion, it's by no means a distinguished lyric, but isn't it obvious "look" is being used a verb? She means "with one look" at the camera, not a singular facial expression. The earliest version of the song was even called "With One Glance" per Elaine Paige's wikipedia bio:

I don't understand why you think that distinction makes any difference. "With one glance, I play every part" would be an equally awful lyric.

R269 Ronan is a baritone???!!! That's surprising given his speaking voice which tends towards a higher range.

I always thought that the ending of MISS SAIGON (Kim commits suicide, folks rush in and find her body, son plays with toys, dramatic music) to be less than ideal. A better ending would be for Chris to come in, find her dead, cradle her lifeless body in his arms, and reprise a line or two of Why, God, Why. Something like:

Why God? Why this face?

Why such beauty in this place?

I want my memories as they were

Not damned for life rememb'ring her

Just her

(Curtain)

r304 you are insane

Like I said, if you want to continue your defense of Woody the pedo, start your own thread.

Let us talk Broadway here please.

Oh, why not?

and you know about the dining out "all the time" how, r314?

Well...she tries.

There are some tiresome whores in this thread.

Yes, the Mia trolls are horribly tiresome.

I never mean to judge something sight unseen but the commercials for SIX make it look terribly cheesy.

Here, Ginger.

Let Carol show you how.

Sondheim and Andre Previn had been friends for years, which is where the friendship with Mia probably began.

Plus, she starred on Broadway with his pal Tony Perkins in Romantic Comedy and there was probably further interaction through that.

So, theatre lovers.... Broadway is re-opening!

Anybody been fucking their adopted underage daughter(s) lately?

Beware...

Speaking of Tommy Tune, where is he and what is he doing these days? His direction of Nine and Grand Hotel were fucking masterful. There aren’t that many directors (or even choreographers) that have his skill or theatricality. Genius.

Of course, I now realise that he must be in his 70s by now and is most likely retired. Guess I’ve answered my own question.

Carry on.

Didn't he have... habits?

Did he? I don’t know anything about his personal life.

Tommy is in his early 80s.

Tommy Tune was discussed here within the last year or so. Partying was part of the discussion.

[quote]DL fave Viv Vance was fired during the out of town tryout of Woody’s Don’t Drink the Water.

Artistic differences. Viv insisted on singing "Shortnin' Bread" during the curtain call.

Always worthy of posting...

I know I'm 261 posts early but I propose the next thread - which can't come soon enough - be the first Theatre thread to begin with a poll, asking folks to vote on whether or not #438 has been the [italic]worst thread ever[/italic].

and the [italic]intent[/italic] of the craptastic lyric "With one look, I play ever part" - or one's ability to infer the actual meaning of the fucking [italic]opening line[/italic] of a song before audiences even know where it's going - is ridiculous. It's the sort of kinda-sorta-only-vaguely-about-what-it's-about lyric that makes audiences not really listen because it's not really worth listening to, and then the cycle begins: you write generic not-worth-listening-to lyrics, audiences learn to stop listening except to the basic point of the entire song and then sit back and don't both because it's not worth it, and you create an environment that makes lyrics not matter.

Pay close attention to, R431. He is absolutely correct.

R341 also makes a good point.

We can't edit posts here. That's a good point, too.

oh, snap.

This particularly rapid unintelligible patter isn’t generally heard and if it is it doesn’t matter.

Isn't Children Will Listen just a retread of You've Got to Be Carefully Taught and a reworking of Not While I'm Around?

No, particularly with respect to the latter.^^^

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1978, "Eubie!" opened at the Ambassador Theatre.

I knew this was going to be an issue! When I was standing on the platform the other day and that opening call from "The Lion King" suddenly came over the speaker, I said to myself, "A lot of people are going to be annoyed by this."

Sorry, link is to the Post.

We live in a post-Broadway society.

R350-That must soothe even the most violent box cutter-wielding psychopaths.

[quote]the cement Serengeti

An unfortunately apt description of my bowels.

Is Lucy and Jessie a better lyric than With One Look?

thank you, r342/r343/r344

Why would Sally ask that question, r354? It ain't her song.

R341, exactly. In fairness, that awful lyric isn't the first line of the song -- but it's the SECOND line of the song (after a very brief intro), so your excellent point stands.

Talk, Talk, Talk

There is a recitative before With One Look begins. I think it sets up what to expect from the song.

Just a dumb idea for a musical. A woman who couldn't make it in the talkies has two arias that she gets to belt to the rafters. And Norma and Joe garner zero sympathy. There's no one to root for. It's a noir with some dark comic overtones. It's not a movie that sings.

Exactly, r360. The two are pretty flat characters. I think Sondheim realized that along the way and decided to bail.

There are no likable characters in CHICAGO, either, except for maybe Amos, but even then he is too pathetic to like sometimes. I don't think a protagonist needs to be likable.

[quote]Just a dumb idea for a musical. A woman who couldn't make it in the talkies has two arias that she gets to belt to the rafters.

I think that's a more likely reason why Sondheim gave up the idea, as compared to the silly reason he gave.

CHICAGO is cynical, r362, but Roxie should have enough charm that you do root for her. It's framework as a musical vaudeville sets it up as a series of entertaining musical numbers as opposed to playing a straight murder/prison plot. It's played for comedy. The musical Sunset Blvd treats Norma as a grand tragic figure when she's basically just looney tunes.

If Norma was "just looney tunes," Sunset Boulevard wouldn't be a classic movie.

And the suggestion that Norma shouldn't sing because she's a silent movie star is about as dumb as saying the actress playing Sally Bowles shouldn't sing well because the character isn't all that talented.

[quote[The suggestion that Norma shouldn't sing because she's a silent movie star is about as dumb as saying the actress playing Sally Bowles shouldn't sing well because the character isn't all that talented.

I see what you mean, and I sort of agree, but it's not exactly the same thing. Don't you think there's something a little weird about having a silent screen star belting out power ballads in a musical?

You seem to be making an assumption that Norma’s voice is the reason she didn’t continue her career into “talkies”.

R367, no, I don't think that's implied in the movie or the musical at all. But I STILL think it's just a little odd to hear a silent film star belting out power ballads, because that's not the kind of stylization Norma trafficked in. Still, I for one would have been perfectly willing to suspend disbelief if SUNSET BLVD. had been made into a good musical by Sondheim with Lansbury as star, rather than a lousy one by ALW starring Close.

"If Norma was "just looney tunes," Sunset Boulevard wouldn't be a classic movie".

* Fine, r365. Norma was, for a period, a great movie star and then became a delusional recluse. Is there anything else we know about her? There wouldn't be a movie if she *hadn't* been bonkers.

Most silent screens stars off-screen did talk, you know. Some, like Lina Lamont, though were screechy peechy.

We know that “the system” is what broke her, likely exploited while young, and caused Max, out of love and guilt, to return to her as her devoted servant.

I don't think Norma would have been a good role for Angie, r368. Gloria's dragon lady persona in the film is so ingrained in the role, plus Gloria brought her own silent film history to it. Gloria and Billy Wilder are what make the film a classic. Removing them and adding music isn't going to make a hit.

I mentioned previously in another thread that Sunset Boulevard’s “indictment” of Hollywood seems so quaint now in the age of multi-national conglomerates and mass media giants. The question is no longer who has been chewed up and spit out by the business, but who has had what it takes to last in its toxic environs.

A remake about two people who desperately want to get out of show business?

I don't think Sally Bowles being a great singer and stuck in a dive in unrealistic. Too often talent doesn't translate to success. You need the right connections and a bit of luck. Nepotism helps a lot, too.

R373 Tom Cruise

Sally Bowles is what Liza Minnelli would have been if her parents weren't Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli.

Liza would have been just fine without the connections.

Angela Lansbury is too frumpy for Norma. When you picture Joe fucking Norma, you don't want to automatically think about a big dick plunging into Aunt Clara from Bewitched.

[quote]a big dick plunging into Aunt Clara from Bewitched

Pics please.

Joe and Norma had sex?! I thought it was unrequited on Joe's part.

Joe had to earn his goodies, r381.

Wiilam was holden onto a Swanson frozen dinner till it heated up some.

Hey, Angie had Andrew Stephens pounding her vag while she was on Murder She Wrote, I think her Norma would have been fine. Although nothing like THIS Norma:

Sunset Boulevard resonates beyond its showbiz indictment, just as GYPSY does, because of the tragic characters at the center of the story. Rose and Norma share the fatal flaw of lack of insight. They don't see what they have, indeed they destroy what they have in pursuit of success. They both desperately want love but they focus on externals, much to their detriment.

Did any of you have Hugh O'Brian back in the day?

Norma was a was....until she wasn't, r385. Rose wasn't ever a was.

R367 if I could've been, I would've been. And that's show business.

I had him up to here, r386!

Rona Barrett said he came up to her (and on to her?) nude at like the Beverly Hilton swimming pool, and while she rebuffed him, she did refer to him as "Huge O'Brien", if I recall correctly.

R380, Is that why she stuttered?

R381, When he rushes back on NYE after her suicide attempt.

R390, It was Kirk Douglas, not Hugh.

Why would Rona Barrett call Kirk Douglas Huge O'Brien?

[quote]Why would Rona Barrett call Kirk Douglas Huge O'Brien?

Why would Hugh O'Brien make a play for Rona Barrett?

Oh, no! Hugh got the 'Rona!

R395, Your memory has failed you. Rona never mentioned "Huge O'Brien".

Do the posters who believe a silent movie star can't sing power ballads also believe a consumptive little seamstress (Mimi/Boheme) or a dying courtesan with a nagging cough (Violetta/Traviata) can't sing soaring arias?

Mimi and Violetta don't have sticks up their butt about talking pictures, r398.

Jesus ladies, can we gossip about Broadway in the last few years, or maybe even now? Len Cariou? Sunset Blvd? Are you serious with this shit?

Is Pass Over closing even earlier than planned?

Sigh. So much discussion about Sunset Blvd, a truly awful musical.

It is a bad musical, but not because Norma only has one expression, in some people's estimate.

"There are no likable characters in CHICAGO, either, except for maybe Amos, but even then he is too pathetic to like sometimes. I don't think a protagonist needs to be likable.

And, as a result, (as I believe Sondheim noted) it's the first musical to elicit zero feeling or emotion. Which kind of makes it a pointless musical, if you really think about, whatever its pleasures. And I knew that even as a stripling in 1975...

"Do the posters who believe a silent movie star can't sing power ballads also believe a consumptive little seamstress (Mimi/Boheme) or a dying courtesan with a nagging cough (Violetta/Traviata) can't sing soaring arias?"

Naturally, you miss the point entirely. It's not that they sing soaring arias, but that they sing soaring arias in a musical vocabulary and syntax COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR CHARACTERS AND THE PERIOD OF THE PIECE. Thank you.

The Lion King ads have always been obnoxious.

"It's alarming how charming..."

The lady singing at the beginning of the Lion KIng always sounded like she was sing "Do Svidanya" in Russian during that first part. Boris and Natasha have infiltrated everywhere!

I haven't seen anything about Pass Over closing early outside of the poster from the last thread.

I heard that Pass Over is on tkts. That's not a good sign, is it?

TKTS? Hell, it's been on TDF since day one.

Who's doing the movie of Pass Over?

It's been done.

R411, “Oh, honey, I never do game shows.”

r384 I will never forgive you.

R384, Is that Olympia Dukakis?

Please tell me the rumors that Jane Lynch has been cast Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL are untrue!

[quote] Please tell me the rumors that Jane Lynch has been cast Mrs. Brice in FUNNY GIRL are untrue!

Why would she take a role like that? There’s not a lot to that role.

[quote] And I knew that even as a stripling in 1975...

Were you performing at the Gaiety?

Awwww, I miss the Gaiety. But I don't miss the refreshments table at the back that had a bowl of chips and a bowl filled with some sort of murky liquid that may have been punch. Looking back, I cringe to think to think of the patrons dipping their hands into those chips after pleasuring themselves while watching the strippers.

Wasn’t Patrick Swayze ALLEGEDLY a Gaiety stripper?

Cleanse your palates with a little GOOD NEWS.

How much of a dancer was/is Bernie? She quite good here with the late great Bobby Van. Did she dance much in SONG & DANCE? Surely she tapped in DAMES AT SEA. MACK AND MABEL? The Sondheim shows were not dancing roles for her.

Followed by Miss Sandy Duncan.

[quote]the patrons dipping their hands into those chips after pleasuring themselves while watching the strippers.

Hot.

She only danced a tiny bit in Dance, r420. She was a capable dancer, but she doesn't really have a dancer's body.

Jane Lynch as Fanny's mother manes about as much sense as Beanie Feldstein as Fanny...oh wait...

How about Len Cariou as Ziegfeld, and Bryan Batt as Nick, and Betty Buckley as Mrs. Strakosh, and Jeff Whitty as Eddie.....WILL THAT WORK?

[quote] She was a capable dancer, but she doesn't really have a dancer's body.

I noticed this in her limited dancing in The Goodbye Girl. She is bottom heavy (her weight is carried in her hips and buttocks) and she had stumpy legs.

Bernie is built like a typical Italian-American girl.

And then there's....the boobs... r424.

All sorts of shows are at The Booth. It's September and its COVID. Seats will be available.

I bet Ben Platt wants to play Nick. A young Nick, that is.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1966, a revival of "Annie Get Your Gun" opened at the Broadway Theatre.

Well, it *did* give us...

And it was great fun, even with an overage Annie.

[quote] She was a capable dancer, but she doesn't really have a dancer's body.

Bernadette has danced, far mire than capably, in a lot of shows. For the record, she did some heavy dancing in Mack & Mabel, but she was not in the tap number, that was Lisa Kirk’s big song. Bernie did tap in “George M” and “Dames at Sea.”

It's a pity they didn't make Gelsomina a tap role, r432.

[quote]How about Len Cariou as Ziegfeld, and Bryan Batt as Nick, and Betty Buckley as Mrs. Strakosh, and Jeff Whitty as Eddie.....WILL THAT WORK?

No, it won't.

I’m sure Lionel Bart would’ve been up for it, r433, if he hadn’t been a drug-addled mess at the time.

Bernadette is as good a dancer as Patti LuPone.

Did Bernadette ever play Reno Sweeney?

I think we would know had she done so, r437.

[quote] Did Bernadette ever play Reno Sweeney?

She doesn’t have the right voice for it.

Poor Betty...

Bernadette isn't a broad which is why casting her in Annie Get Your Gun and Gypsy was controversial. Oddly enough, I didn't think her casting in Gypsy was all that off the mark. Took some getting used to, but she attempted to make the role her own and it's a much better written and nuanced role than Annie or Reno where you're really only called upon to be loud, abrasive, and deliver some good punchlines.

Loud, abrasive, good punchlines? Did someone call?

The irony, r441, is that Bernadette is closer in type to the real life Annie Oakley and Rose Hovick. But their bio shows were written for Ethel's persona. Whatcha gonna do?

R443, Sondheim is on record as saying Linda Lavin most resembled the real Rose Hovick physically.

Rose

Sondheim is also on record saying “Verdi is a fraud.” So he spews a lotta horse shit.

Religion, Disco, Death and Drama — Westside Theatre’s History Reads Like a Play in 3 Acts:

[quote]Sondheim is also on record saying “Verdi is a fraud.” So he spews a lotta horse shit.

Damn, I missed that one. It seems he will say anything to get a huge response from people, whether because what he says is so brilliant or so bizarre.

Peter Palmer, Star of "Li’l Abner" on Broadway and the Big Screen, Dies at 90:

[quote]Mia constantly singing "Not While I'm Around" to Ronan. That reveals an awful lot, no?

Yes, it reveals that she was trying to persuade her kids there was danger all around them from very early. Only a nut case would sing that to a kid. "Demons are prowling everywhere nowadays". Jeez Louise!

r450, have you ever listened carefully to the lyrics to Rockabye, Baby?

You'd be shocked.

Well, r450, it certainly beats I'll Be Glad When You're Dead You Rascal You.

[quote]Peter Palmer, Star of "Li’l Abner" on Broadway and the Big Screen, Dies at 90:

No one would use that name anymore. Sounds too much like a chronic masturbator. But of course he lived in a more genteel, refined era where we didn't speak of such things.

r446, do you have documentation for that?

Jason Robert Brown and Amanda Green's musical of "Mr. Saturday Night", directed by John Rando, and starring Billy Crystal and Randy Graff, will play a limited-run tryout at Great Barrington Stage this October.

I never miss a Billy Crystal musical!

R454, Sondheim never would have said something that absurd.

R455, Don't think I can make it.

[quote]Sondheim never would have said something that absurd.

Neither would Buck.

Whenever I see Amanda Green's name attached to anything, I automatically know it's garbage.

And Billy Crystal and David Paymer will be playing the same roles they played in the film 30 YEARS AGO.

Actually, R459, HIGH FIDELITY was a wonderful show with an excellent score. Unfortunately, the basic concept was fatally flawed -- a musical about a record store that trafficked in old, classic records is one of the few types of shows that cries out for a "jukebox" score of pre-existing song hits, yet this one had an entirely new score.

Dick Cavett just began:

Sandy Duncan

Alexander Cohen

Henry Fonda

Deborah Kerr

R462, Fonda and Kerr co-hosted the 1972 Tony Awards, Cohen produced them.

The Awards weren't for another night or two, r463. Dick asked him what effect a Tony win had. Cohen mentioned Homecoming had already posted a closing notice and after the win, they ran for another 11 months. He said the week before its win, Company made $39,000. The week after, they made $87,000.

A Black Theater Flourished in New York. 200 Years Ago.

The African Theater, which had its first performance on Sept. 17, 1821, is both an inspiration and a cautionary tale:

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1966, "A Delicate Balance" opened at the Martin Beck Theatre.

Hard to think of Miss Seldes as...the daughter.

LIZA!

And yet Miss Seldes won a Tony as . . . the daughter, R467! Interesting.

It's especially interesting to me because Julia is, for me, the role in A DELICATE BALANCE that's hardest to nail. Mary Beth Hurt didn't quite manage it in the superb 1996 revival, and God knows Martha Plimpton was dreadful (presumably misdirected, or perhaps left alone to do her own thing) in the 2016 production. Lee Remick is wonderful in the underappreciated film version.

Rosemary Harris had a line delivery to Elaine Stritch in that excellent 1996 Delicate Balance that made me fall out of my chair. Something about how she should go off to Kentucky to visit the distilleries. Anyone recall the line?

Let me google that for you, R470

The 1996 revival of A Delicate Balance was one of the best evenings I’ve ever spent in the theatre. I almost didn’t see it because I loathed Stritch but she and the rest of the cast were impeccable. Rosemary Harris is a treasure. And George Grizzard won a well deserved Tony.

R472, Elaine received nearly as much praise for her legs as her performance.

The London "A Delicate Balance" a few years later had Eileen Atkins, John Standing, and the impeccable Maggie Smith as Claire. The two ladies were outstanding.

APPLAUSE

Did they dish on Bonnie Franklin?

She was a cunt. End of story.

Thanks R471! I did try to find it, but had no success. It might not look funny on paper, but in the moment and in Harris' hands, it was sharp as a tack.

R475, Is Len Cariou still boasting about plowing Betty's pussy?

I saw both Stritch/Harris/Grizzard and Smith/Atkins/Standing productions and the Broadway one was superior. As good as Maggie Smith was she just wasn’t as genuine as Stritch was in that role (both as an acerbic drunk and an American).

Agreed, R472. Prior to seeing that show, I had enjoyed Stritch in her club acts, her personal appearances as a guest artist, etc., but none of that made me expect her to be so brilliant in a something as challenging as A DELICATE BALANCE. And, apparently, she was quite consistently brilliant in that, as I heard zero reports of her missing shows, forgetting her lines, or being "off" at certain performances as she was in A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC years later.

Stritch was pretty much a nightmare to work with, especially in A DELICATE BALANCE. The other actors hated her. But, yes, she was brilliant, as she was in Company, her one woman show and the staged reading of SAIL AWAY that I saw her do. I happily missed her in ALNM, and I wasn't crazy about her in SHOW BOAT, but then singing "Why Do I Love You?" was pretty ridiculous.

I always thought it ridiculous that Stritch was placed in the lead category for A Delicate Balance, but I see that Rosemary Murphy was in the original production, as well. Lindsay Duncan was put in featured in the anemic Glenn Close production. Had Stritch been put in Featured, she would have easily won the Tony. And now she never will win a Tony.

Stritch and Grizzard in "Delicate Balance"

[quote]Had Stritch been put in Featured, she would have easily won the Tony. And now she never will win a Tony.

Well, of course, she thought the Tony for ELAINE STRITCH: AT LIBERTY was primarily hers, and I guess she can be forgiven for feeling that way.

yes, for years i thought she actually won the tony, as well, but then i finally saw the distinction that it was only given to the producer of the show. i think that stinks. it's a special theatrical event and relies primarily on the person/persons onstage in a way that a play and musical don't necessarily do.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1982, "A Doll's Life" opened at the Mark Hellinger Theatre.

Who won the Tonys that were denied to Elaine for A Delicate Balance and for her one woman show?

I can't imagine Maggie Smith as the sister Claire in Balance....she's far more an Agnes, the Jessica Tandy/Rosemary Harris role. She and Eileen Atkins should have switched roles.

Some credit here for the brilliance of the 1996 Broadway revival should be given to Gerald Gutierrez, who could be a prick and was a wildly uneven talent, but still.......so much more talented than any director working on Broadway today (at least of the Americans).

Gerry Gutierrez might have been brilliant at directing plays, but he also directed the worst production of a musical I ever saw... SJP in ONCE UPON A MATTRESS.

I think we've talked about how bad that production was, but I'd love to hear examples.

Learn to Be Lonely from A Doll's Life

Mattress is a show for a clown or vaudevillian to run through her bag of tricks. SJP IS a princess and has no tricks so the thing was moribund from the start. The sequence where Winnifred tosses and turns on the mattresses is meant to be a comic's showcase, and instead of laughter, you could have heard a pin drop in the Broadhurst Theatre. In an evening of humiliations for the leading lady, that was the worst. The rest of the show is a little too precious and twee to withstand the miscasting at its center.

Anthony Page directed the production with Maggie Smith and Eileen Atkins and it was definitely inferior to the Gutierrez one.

I vividly remember that scene where SJP was writhing on top of the mattresses and how painful it was to watch. There's no dialogue there, it's all about the actress doing funny physical business with her body, trying to fall asleep. So she was really up and out there with nothing to help her but her own lack of talent and craft.

I saw the movie when it first came out, r469, and I really don't think it's all that.

In some productions of A DELICATE BALANCE (including the film), the characters seem to be portrayed as billionaires but I think it works better when they are merely wealthy.

R487, I saw it in previews. Hal Prince, Betty Comden and Adolph Green sat directly in front of me, arguing during all of Act I while whispering. They did not return for Act II.

I can't imagine Adolph Green whispering.

Comden & Green really weren’t right for A Doll’s Life.

Betsy J is talented. She seems to have gained a lot of weight later in life.

Tony predictions:

I saw the London production of A DELICATE BALANCE with Dame Eileen and Dame Maggie. I can understand why someone might prefer Maggie as Agnes, but she was absolutely brilliant as Claire. And Atkins was a fine Agnes.

I believe the line is: "Why don't you take a trip, Claire, now that Julia has come home? Why don't you go to Kentucky, or Tennessee, and visit the distilleries?"

the trailer

Val

[quote] Who won the Tonys that were denied to Elaine for A Delicate Balance and for her one woman show?

Zoe Wanamaker won for Master Class, which was a total lock before the nominations even happened. There was no way anyone was taking that award from her, even though she'd already won several Tonys. However, the competition in the Featured Actress category was anemic at best. Audra McDonald wound up winning her 2nd Tony for her absolute nothing of a performance in Master Class. Stritch would have easily mopped the floor with her.

In terms of At Liberty, it did win Best Special Theatrical Event, and Stritch went up and accepted the award. But she didn't actually win the award, as it only goes to the producer(s), not the performer, and Stritch did not produce it.

[quote] Zoe Wanamaker won for Master Class, which was a total lock before the nominations even happened.

Wanamaker is still alive and working; of course you meant Zoe Caldwell, who is not.

R495, I called the film underappreciated; I didn't say "it's all that." Of course -- perhaps inevitably -- it's very much a filmed play. No one could possibly claim that it's cinematically brilliant. But the casting is dead-on, and the opportunity to hear actors of that caliber deliver Albee's masterful text with such skill has always given me a lot of pleasure.

I don't think that it's been mentioned yet in this thread, but Kim Stanley was originally cast as Claire. I've always yearned for footage of the rehearsal(s?) in which Katharine Hepburn was apparently appalled by Miss Stanley's Method wallowing and told Tony Richardson the equivalent of "She goes or I go."

[quote] In terms of At Liberty, it did win Best Special Theatrical Event, and Stritch went up and accepted the award. But she didn't actually win the award, as it only goes to the producer(s), not the performer, and Stritch did not produce it.

Stritch was sort of bedeviled over the years at the Tony Awards. Because At Liberty was being put into Special Theatrical Event, which it would easily win, the show's elements were not allowed in any of the other competitive musical categories. Stritch probably would have beaten Sutton Foster for Best Actress in a Musical, and At Liberty might have picked up Direction and Book for that matter. Even though she was a crabby pain in the ass, she should have won a Featured Tony for A Delicate Balance had she been categorized correctly, and the Leading Tony for At Liberty.

Elaine's Emmy acceptance speech for At Liberty.

wow we really having nothing to talk about

It seems silly that the performer in a one-woman show isn't included in the award recipients. For god's sake, hers was a herculean performance that deserved the statuette.

But it wasn't the Tony for one-woman show, it was the Tony for Best Special Theatrical Event

Is Norm Lewis gay and out? if gay but not out, will his role in Chicken and Biscuits push/pull him out?

Karen Olivo isn't done whining. The funny thing is how she can't actually give any examples of the outrageous injustices she claims to have been victim of. The main one seems to be them not scheduling a piss break for her - isn't that what the intermission is for?

God, she is fucking hideous in profile.

Oy, I cannot believe I typed Zoe Wanamaker instead of Zoe Caldwell. Oh, dear me to infinity!

Did anybody see Zoe Kravitz in The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie?

[quote]God, she is fucking hideous in profile.

It's a reflection of her soul. Or lack of same.

[quote]To fit into some of those costumes, I really did have to become a smaller version of myself. I’m someone who enjoys eating, and I did not allow myself for so much of the three years it took to make it. I’m also onstage for most of the show and, because of all the singing and dancing, I have to drink water, which means I have to use the restroom. But they couldn’t figure out a time in the show for me to do that. So I spent almost two years, through off-Broadway and then on Broadway, holding my urine, which I now have issues with. At the time, I thought, maybe I just need to tough it out. Now, I can be holding my urine for so long and not know it that when I do know it and it’s time to go, it’s almost too late.

TMI, Karen I guess all that backed-up urine poisoned her heart, and also her brain.

Well, ain't she just full of piss and vinegar?

[quote]What advice do you have for those who choose to remain in the Broadway system, for whatever reason?

[quote]I can’t fault them because I don’t know their life or their circumstances. I do mourn for them though. I’ve been in this business for a long time, so I don’t want anyone to ever have to go through what I went through. So when I see someone stepping back into a relationship in which they’re undervalued, where the same BS is happening, it shows me that they don’t know how much they’re worth. It makes me sad when people don’t see that it can’t happen without them.

Smug, nasty, angry, pretentious, condescending.

Guess what, KO? In EVERY industry, every profession, every field of endeavor, SOME of the people at the top are selfish pricks who are only in it for the money and try to get the most of their employees for the least amount of compensation and consideration. So if you think the theater is worse in this way than any other field, including academia, you're even more of a fool than we already thought you were.

[quote]I can’t say that I won’t work in New York or in commercial theater ever again.

Too bad :-(

[quote]I can’t say that I won’t work in New York or in commercial theater ever again.

Oh, but we can!

Buttercup! It's time to wrap this mother up!

No it isn't. There are 76 more pot slots left.

Sing out, Ginge!

R525, What a gal!

So, was Ginger's MAME recorded or not? Is it in a vault somewhere? I mean, it's fine if it stays there, I'm just curious.

[quote]So I spent almost two years, through off-Broadway and then on Broadway

Boston counts as "off-Broadway" now?

[quote]Plus, when it came time to make offers to go back, they offered the same amount of money, and the same amount of rehearsal time. This is the hardest show I’ve ever done. I was like, who’s gonna remount it in six weeks?

Well given you just said it was the same amount of rehearsal time as before, seems you managed it once Karen. And it's not like you're learning a new show all over again.

I wonder how her former castmates really feel about her.

[quote]It seems silly that the performer in a one-woman show isn't included in the award recipients. For god's sake, hers was a herculean performance that deserved the statuette.

Elaine's competition in the "special theatrical event" category was Barbara Cook, for her one-woman show.

[quote]So, was Ginger's MAME recorded or not? Is it in a vault somewhere? I mean, it's fine if it stays there, I'm just curious.

Here you go, R527.

Uh....I just posted that at r525, r530. I was referring to a standard cast recording.

In the old days, stars like Mary Martin, Ethel Merman and Gertrude Lawrence had pee breaks virtually, if not literally, written into their contracts.

Seriously, they were stars who could command particular rights, like having decent changing time for costumes and approval of those costumes, flattering pink gels in their follow spots, co-star approval and all kinds of things that these interchangeable "stars" today in these mediocre shows are denied.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: The revival of Oh! Calcutta!, opened on September 24, 1976 at the Edison Theatre, and ran for 13 years, with a total of 5,959 performances. It is currently the 8th longest-running Broadway show, and the longest-running Broadway revue.

People were paying to see Mary Martin, Ethel Merman and Gertrude Lawrence. People don't give a shit who's playing Satine.

And that, r534, is the problem with Broadway in a nutshell.

Producers have it much easier when the show is the selling point.

Did the producers end up giving Stritch the statuette?

Only under extreme duress.

You gonna argue with her, r537?

I saw Zoe Kazan (not Kravitz) in Brodie. She was excellent and totally at ease in her nude scene. Cynthia Nixon, on the other hand, was miscast as Jean Brodie.

The Long-Delayed Tony Awards Are Almost Here. This Is What to Expect:

NYT reviews film version of "Dear Evan Hansen":

what is with London's boner for Sunset Fucking Boulevard????

[quote]What is with London's boner for Sunset Fucking Boulevard????

Not hard to figure out why so many Brits love it -- or THINK they love it -- even though the show is a piece of crap.

Simply put, their standards really are lower than ours.

High School Musical

E! is having a SMASH marathon this weekend. Aside from showing two episodes out of sequence I’m really enjoying it. #TeamKaren

Bohemian Paige

[quote] Another reason for Barbara to hate Elaine Stritch

Relax, fat ass, you weren't getting the statue no matter what.

R545 Ah yes, Broadway, home of the highest cultural standards.

Excuse me, Elaine, somebody is 𝙩𝙧𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 to sing here...

First time you haven't had a mouthful of ice cream all day, Barb.

STRITCH

Susan and Ralph whoop up.

My favorite Stritch recording. It's delightfully awful and self-indulgent. If you are short on time, skip right to 1:26.

A true Broadway legend...

R550, uhhh, how long did that Buddy Holly thing run in the West End? Over a few years? And what about Thriller, that Michael Jackson monstrosity? That was stinking up Shaftesbury Avenue for at least two years before Covid. So shut the fuck up.

Another snappy Whoop-Up tune...

[quote]My favorite Stritch recording. It's delightfully awful and self-indulgent.

That made my ears bleed. And DL-ers complain about Linda Lavin's scatting.

TRANS controversy BLOWS up that shitshow of a musical, Jagged Little Pill. Apparently some stage manager wouldn't let someone out for pussy surgery during their previews in NY.

TRANS!

Will the execrable Evan Hansen film reviews negatively impact the Broadway box office? My guess is yes.

You might find this one a bit less frantic, r559...

Jesus, how much more whining and complaining are the Trannys and Enbys from Jagged gonna do? This is why no one wants to hire you. You complain about EVERYTHING!

r513 the rumor is he is, and is very well hung. He certainly has BDF, BDH, BD everything and is super charming and kind to boot.

Is that the same Ralph Young who became half of "Sandler & Young,, the singing duo who were practically regulars on "The Ed Sullivan Show?"

R557 Whereas only the finest shows enjoy success on Broadway, right?

R560 I think the person alleging the mistreatment identifies as non-binary but it wasn’t a trans related surgery

Gotta say I've known the accused JLP stage manager for decades and they are one of the most caring and professional people I've worked with on Broadway. I'll just blame this mess on Dianne Paulus.

Never wrong to blame Diane

Just got a message from Second Stage that both performances of their Off-Broadway show Letters from Suresh are canceled today due to exposure to Covid.

All of the Paulus shows end up having a weird backstage energy. She's a cipher of a human being and the emptiness spreads. This is why you never hear actors talking about her. Their performances are in spite of her.

[quote]I think the person alleging the mistreatment identifies as non-binary but it wasn’t a trans related surgery

I have so many questions about this whole mess, but I'll start with this one --

Considering that the performer in question is not a star, why would anyone have pressured them not to have surgery? I mean, it's not as if they are a name performer whose absence from the show for a few weeks would have had any negative impact on ticket sales. OF COURSE, it would have been wrong to pressure someone not to have surgery even in that case, but in THIS case, I don't even understand the motivation. Thoughts?

Motivation - either it was purposeful, a sort of revenge for speaking up about non-binary/trans rep in the show.. or the stage manager decided this actor was annoying and stopped reading their emails, totally missing the urgent ones about their vagina losing lots of blood

Here's a link to the cast member's tweet about it all.

The stage manager didn't have anything to do with the surgery issue. Schell complains the SM didn't pass on medical information to the creative team. She then collapsed during a rehearsal due to anemia, and asked to take the rest of the day off. A higher up refused this and pressured her to stay - and yet Schell blames the stage manager for this, saying it was the SM's job to stand up for her.

Likewise, with the stuff around the surgery, it was a higher up, not the stage manager. And this higher up apparently asked them to consider the disruption that would be caused by Schell taking four days off to recover during previews. Schell then says she was "effectively coerced" to delay her surgery...which is fairly vague and could mean a lot of things.

The whole tone of her statement seems off. She seems more pissed with a stage manager who seemingly didn't pass some information on (not like a stage manager is busy during rehearsals and previews or anything) than she's pissed with the actual decision makers who - if we accept her claims - forced her to delay her surgery and then threatened her with unpaid leave.

Given how whiny that entire cast has been over every little thing, I find this is all hard to believe. If something did happen the way it's been described, I'm pretty sure we would've heard about it by now.

[quote]Likewise, with the stuff around the surgery, it was a higher up, not the stage manager. And this higher up apparently asked them to consider the disruption that would be caused by Schell taking four days off to recover during previews. Schell then says she was "effectively coerced" to delay her surgery...which is fairly vague and could mean a lot of things.

Thanks, I didn't realize this all happened during previews. At least that partly explains the motivation for coercing the no-name performer in question to delay the surgery. It's obviously far more disruptive for a leading or featured cast member to miss shows during previews, especially since, in many cases, there is no understudy or cover prepared to go on, so that might result in cancellation of some performances.

Again, of course there is NEVER any justification for pressuring someone to avoid necessary surgery, but at least it's a plausible explanation for why there would even have been such pressure towards a performer whose name has no meaning at the box office.

Excuse me for not giving a fuck about the painfully woke shit happening on Jagged Little Pill.

I can't wait to watch it LOSE tomorrow and that Eva Price person too

Except, apparently, JLP is favored to win at least Best Book and Best Featured Actress of a Musical.

But, also apparently, those awards won't be televised, so there is that.

[quote]But, also apparently, those awards won't be televised, so there is that.

My understanding is that all of those awards will be part of the Paramount+ telecast.

That's right, Best Play, Revival of a Play and Musical will be on CBS, all the others on Paramount+.

The show is going to close with a performance by Freestyle Love Supreme. That'll surely keep people watching.

It will be a treat to see Isabella Stevenson again.

Ooooo, I used to love to watch her drone on and on about the great work the Wing was doing, bringing theater to old age homes and handicapped centers.

It's probably nobody's favorite part of the Tony Awards, but there is something sweet about the annual message from who I like to call the Classy Broadway Ambassador talking about live performances for the disadvantaged, panels for students, etc. It did suck when the CBA for one year was Julie Chen.

Eat my shorts.

In my house, we would have a combo Tony Award/Birthday party because my birthday falls either on or around the broadcast. Isabelle Stevenson's appearance was always the moment when we trotted out my birthday cake.

A rose for the ages.

r586 is the gayest thing you will read today.

Is it? I'm not offended by that (if it was your intention) but it didn't seem particularly gay to me. I worked in theater in NYC for over a decade so I would have people over to watch the ceremony, friends and, if I was working on a show that was nominated, colleagues from the production. And since my birthday fell in that week (or on the day), I would call it a combo birthday/Tony party.

I believe r588 meant it as a compliment, r589.

I didn't think it was a slam, but you never know on here! ; )

[quote] if I was working on a show that was nominated, colleagues from the production

Did the nominated shows not have parties for the people working on them?

Christine does a really nice Gentleman is a Dope.

[quote] Did the nominated shows not have parties for the people working on them?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes I wasn't working as closely on the show where I knew enough people that I felt comfortable going to the party, or people wanted to do something a little more low key. One year we had a party on the stage of the theater but it was thrown by the cast, not the production, a casual potluck kind of thing where we set up a tv on the stage. And we were nominated for several Tonys that year and won two major ones. If it was something like, say, Kiss of the Spider Woman, then sure, there would be a fancy party held elsewhere, but if it was something like Grapes of Wrath, then no.

Closing ...

This ...

Thread ...

Out ...

Bitches!

No, no, R599, it's Bajour!