France has a hissy fit.

France announced on Friday that it is immediately recalling its ambassadors to the United States and Australia in protest of President Biden’s announcement of an agreement to provide nuclear-powered submarines to Australia without consulting French officials.

In a statement, the French foreign minister said the decision was made by French President Emmanuel Macron.

“At the request of the President of the Republic, I have decided to immediately recall our two ambassadors to the United States and Australia to Paris for consultations,” Jean-Yves Le Drian, the foreign minister said. “This exceptional decision is justified by the exceptional gravity of the announcements made on 15 September by Australia and the United States.”

The decision by Mr. Macron deepened the rift between the two longstanding allies over the submarine deal, which American and Australian officials kept secret from the French until just before the announcement on Wednesday.

In the statement announcing that the ambassadors would return temporarily to Paris — a severe diplomatic step that is usually used against adversaries — Mr. Le Drian made it clear that his country sees the actions of the two nations as a serious breach of trust.

He said the U.S.-Australia partnership, which will result in the abandonment of a previous submarine agreement between Australia and France, constitutes “unacceptable behavior between allies and partners, the consequences of which affect the very conception we have of our alliances, our partnerships and the importance of the Indo-Pacific for Europe.”

That language echoed the bitter comments from Mr. Le Drian and other French officials on Thursday, suggesting that the anger felt at the top levels of Mr. Macron’s government are more than a fleeting temper tantrum.

American officials have conceded that they first informed the French on Wednesday morning, hours before Mr. Biden’s announcement of the deal. They also said that top American officials had tried, unsuccessfully to schedule meetings with their French counterparts before news of the deal leaked in the Australian and American press.

Top national security aides to Mr. Biden have said they do not believe the French anger over the deal will significantly harm the long-term relationship between the two allies, who continue to cooperate on a number of issues around the globe.

But the move by the French to recall their ambassador to have consultations with other French officials about the American decision is the kind of step usually taken as a way to punish another country, signaling a bad relationship.

Administration officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the French decision.

Why hasn't he withdrawn France's ambassador to the UK as well or have I missed something?

They've already protested in the most French way possible. Next they'll be stopping his Cheese imports.

Oooh la la.

France is just pissed they lost out on the submarine contract. They don't give a fuck about the South Pacific security situation, or Australia's strategic defense. They just want the money and clout.

The frogs also sold Exocet missiles to Argentina (which used them against the British Navy in the Falklands) and Iraq (which used them against Israel, Iran, and the US). They also withdrew military support for NATO in 1959 and nearly killed the entire alliance by backing out. The fuckers have no sense of loyalty to their friends, as long as they can make a buck somewhere. Why should we care about their feelings?

Macron is a dominant TOP.

I could totally work this out with Macron, in so many interesting ways.

Seems like Biden had the bigger dick since he got that sweet deal, and the French are left in tears.

Also, I’m tired of these Allie’s bullshit, sure we’ve been close but the world is changing and America is grasping at straws to remain competitive with China. The old way of handing over good deals for other nations can’t be sustained. Just like acting like the world police for American and European corporate interests isn’t going to work as well with a stronger advisory slithering around the world, China.

R7 In his teen years, Macron was molested by a teacher as old as his mother. She left her family to be with him, and they're still together now.

In the US or the UK, the crone would be in prison. But it's France, so nobody cares.

The goddamn cheese eatin surrender monkeys would be speaking German if it wasn’t for us. We can do whatever the hell we want.

Zut, alors!

r3 Its not technically a withdrawal withdrawal. They've not even recalled some minor diplomats which is the normal lesser version of actually closing your embassy. He's just summoned them "to Paris for consultations" for a few days which sounds somewhat meaningful when your travelling from Washington or Canberra. But the French ambassador to the UK can be there and back in about 6 hours,

R13 This presents a problem for the Australian posting, as it may be difficult for him to get back in to the country quickly.

Australia is sealed up tighter than a dolphin's asshole these days.

Macron is a smelly midget.

R3, recalling the ambassador from the UK would be unwise, as the EU, having taken umbrage at Biden ignoring their pleas over Afghanistan, is currently trying to entice Britain into participating in a new European security pact, which would enable Europe to act without US assistance.

The Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte (one of very few EU leaders who have not treated the UK as a pariah state over the last few years) is dining with Boris Johnson tonight to see if he is interested.

Boris, who I generally detest and abhor, must be feeling a rare sense of vindication at the moment, having agreed to be part of the US-OZ-UK, and having annoyed France and being wooed by those who hate him for Brexit.

I expect work for the new alliance goes back several years but its completion transferring the tech for eight nuclear submarines under Biden and Boris Johnson is a VERY big deal. First thing he has done I strongly approve. Springing it on the French at the very last minute though isn't good but obviously the French would never have maintained confidentiality.

The French had been stringing Australia along for years on the conventional submarines jacking up the price each year. The price started at $35 billion for twelve boats. When cancelled the cost had rise to $90 billion.

Note Canada and New Zealand are not part of this. NZ has already said they won't let the Australian nuclear ships in their waters. Under Trudeau Canada is also unreliable.

Also expect to see US nuclear submarines soon homeported in Australia.

The ambassador.

“Ambassador WITHDRAWN over Biden’s Australia sub deal”

Marie!

This stinks of foreign flames.

Good, hopefully this kills NATO.

If that EU defence force actually takes off it will probably make everyone happier than the current NATO arrangement. The US doesn't have to complain half the continent isn't spending 2% of its budget on the military, and its more interested in Asia than Europe now anyway. Eastern Europe will be happy as the reality of it is that it will probably be Western Europe paying for Eastern European soldiers and that will probably be a pretty big income boost given most of the bases will be there as well. It'll probably work out cheaper for France and Germany and the rest of the western nations in the end. Britain will almost certainly sit it out but given post Brexit the country is trying to build up its influence in Asia and Africa as an alternative I doubt that overly bothers Boris either.

Biden's idiot Secy of State Antony "Israel loves me!" Blinken strikes again.

If the Europeans had any sense, they’d focus on building relations with Moscow and Beijing.

The east is the future.

Moscow is the future?

R24 da, Vladimir

[quote] Macron is a dominant TOP.

R7 I was getting more of a bossy bottom vibe.

R22, The UK is committed to NATO, and does want to strengthen ties in The Pacific region, but it is unlikely to refuse to participate in a European security pact. It already has close military ties with France (the other main European military power), with joint command of a rapid-response force. However, I’m sure Johnson will demand a quid pro quo before he commits the UK to intensifying its military role.

[quote] If the Europeans had any sense, they’d focus on building relations with Moscow and Beijing.

Well maybe they have a memory of Russia/Soviet Union occupying half the continent against the will of the people when Moscow had the chance.

Lol so we are anti-nato now? Laughable.

The French have no one to blame but themselves. They failed to preform on their contract and need to STFU. The more they complain, the more they highlight their incompetence. Embarrassing.

Apparently the project had delays and cost blow outs. That's why Australia went with the US. Saying that, I don't think it's a good idea to sour relationships with an ally like France.

Joe Biden has to fix the distrust issue with the EU that Trump caused.

So relations with our allies are worse under Biden than Trump, Well done Blinken.

[quote] Joe Biden has to fix the distrust issue with the EU that Trump caused

That 𝑻𝒓𝒖𝒎𝒑 caused ? C'mon pony soldier.

Merkel is a Putin and Xi stooge. Ridiculous she's complaining Afghanistan withdrawal.

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?

Vive la France

We are The United States of America. We do whatever we want. We have the statue of liberty. Ever heard of it France?

UK jumps off to a quick start.

The United Kingdom has kicked off the process of introducing a next-generation nuclear-powered submarine, to replace the Royal Navy’s current Astute class. Investment in the new program, named the Submersible Ship Nuclear Replacement, or SSNR, was announced just two days after it was confirmed that the United Kingdom and the United States would work together with Australia to provide the latter with a new nuclear-powered submarine, at least eight of which are planned.

R6, such a fucking ignorant cunt. Yes, the french sold Exocet missiles to Argentina who used it against Britain (in a neo-colonial war by the way which the US disapproved of). What you conveniently forgot to mention is that France provided Britain with the codes to disarm those missiles. At the risk of losing all credibility as a global arms manufacturer.

With regards to not giving a fuck about the South Pacific security situation. Again a completely ignorant comment. Quite the contrary. The contract with Australia was a cornerstone of France’s policy in the South Pacific region that had taken years to carefully implement and that Australia even in August was still touting as rock solid, while clearly preparing to backstab France. These are things you do not do among western allies, especially at a time when Russia and China are so assertive.

Finally, where to start when it comes to America’s foreign policy placing its monetary interests above anything else? Like training the Talibans against the Soviets? Propping up Saudi Arabia, a regime that finances terrorism, etc. Oh the irony!

R40 Emmanuel, is that you?

How's that crusty granny pussy you're still getting? Sticks and stones may break your bones, but at Brigitte's age, she could break a hip taking a shit!

Holy shit...some French defense contractor must be pissed for them to make such a huge display. France has never, ever, ever been part of the Five Eyes Alliance. There's precedence for the US, Austrailia, UK, New Zealand, and Canada partnering for National Security reasons.

[quote] France provided Britain with the codes to disarm those missiles

It did take that mad bitch Thatcher did threaten to nuke Buenos Areas if they didn't hand them over to get them. And given Mitterand said she had "eyes of Caligula" he likely didn't doubt she'd do it either.

I didn't read any of this but even I know a baguette is not a sub roll.

R42 That's because France is an unreliable ally to the Western Alliance. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming into humanitarian missions, and they usually refuse to be a part of anything that involves violence against tyrants. They didn't even want us using their airspace when we flew overhead to bomb that lunatic Gaddafi. Not to mention their piss-water support of NATO over the decades, which kept their cousin-fucking smelly asses from having to learn Russian despite their valiant efforts to cripple Western defenses against the Red Menace.

The rest of us know the Frogs are not to be trusted. They won't defend themselves, and they sure as hell won't reliably defend their allies.

Biden deserves credit for sticking it to the French. It’s good that the British and Americans are able to join up to beat their common adversary. France is no ally to the U.S.

R46 Let's not go nuts. The British aren't a very stable ally at the moment. Their current leaders are absolute assholes (a family of aging pedophiles and reality TV stars and some jackass with a child's haircut), and the only reason that idiot Boris is cozying up to us is so we'll give him a trade deal to make up for Blighty's colossal Brexit fuckup. Theresa May tried the same transparent toadying on Trump, but she failed because he rated her only a 2/10 and not worthy of a fingering or a trade deal.

The Germans are better allies to us, and certainly more stable in the future. They won't be asking us for any loans, that's for sure. And the Canadians and the Aussies have always been consistent with us.

[quote] France provided Britain with the codes to disarm those missiles.

Nope. The Exocet was a fire and forget weapon. No destruct codes. Once fired it's gone and nobody can stop it. The hit on HMS Sheffield was fatal.

Pre-war France sold Argentina five missiles and did refuse further supply after the war began but made certain the missiles they sold worked. A French technical team - mainly working for a company 51% owned by the French government - stayed in Argentina throughout the war.

In an interview carried out in 1982 by Sunday Times journalist Isabel Hilton, the team's leader, Herve Colin, admitted carrying out one particular test that proved invaluable to Argentinian forces.

"The verification process involves determining if the missile launcher was functioning correctly or not. Three of the launchers failed. We located the source of the problem and that was it. The rest was simple."

France should have seen this coming. The Australians had not been satisfied with the work performed by the French defense contractor. Interesting article below with the background.

France wanted to sell Australia diesel powered subs, which make more noise and need refueled more regularly than the US nuclear powered subs which are much more quiet, something important for subs.

So the French deal with Australia is toast?

They're [italic]deeply in love[/italic], R41.

As a colleague said of dear Mrs. Thatcher at the time: "She stands by Our Ronnie!" Brits were very lucky to have had her.

r49 Why does the French foreign minister look like a gameshow host?

R51 more people will get it if you say "So the Australia deal with the French is toast?

[quote] The British aren't a very stable ally at the moment.

If anything, the British would feel that we are the unstable ally. There was a return to the normal level of the special relationship under Trump, but before that there was the antipathy of Obama toward the UK and now the traditional anti-British sentiment of the Irish-American Biden. It’s unfortunate that the relationship should wax and wane depending on who the American president is.

r40 the Frog can get fucked. They're responsible for a bombing terrorist attack in peaceful little New Zealand. They are sneaky, underhanded cunts.

[quote] There was a return to the normal level of the special relationship under Trump

Those are some powerful drugs you are taking.

I don't know about all of this. I do know that I would fcuk that creamy Macaron's d.ick clean off if given half a chance.

I am disapoint mais c’est la vie.

Presidential elections are next year and Macron's opponents will jump on the fact that he allowed France to be outmaneuvered by the US and UK.

R55 Tough shit. That's what happens in a drastically unbalanced relationship. The party with greater power and resources dictates the terms and tone.

The UK had the chance to be a dominant force in the collective superpower that is the EU. But they walked away from it all, mostly because they don't like Polish people.

200 years ago, the U.S. desperately wanted to emulate the U.K. and be its ally in all matters. Nowadays, it's they who are chasing us. It's they who are desperate for relevance, and the political scraps of a great power.

r57, it’s called irrefutable facts. Obviously, you like don’t like them.

R53, he looks snooty. As one would expect.

[R57], it’s called irrefutable facts. Obviously, you like don’t like them.

Yeah that bust of Churchill Trump put in the Oval Office made a huge difference. Don't OD on those drugs.

[quote] How do you even pronounce Aukus? Something along the lines of "awkward" came the wry suggestion from one Brussels diplomat this week.

R60 Honestly one of the more interesting factors in this is how completely secret the 3 countries managed to keep it.

R55 that's a pretty right-wing view of the situation. The UK and the US were fine under Obama. Much better than under George W. Bush, who if you recall got the UK to help invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and that caused so much fallout that it dethroned the prime minister at the time.

Obama tried to help the UK from shooting itself in the foot with Brexit, too. Oh well!

[quote] The UK had the chance to be a dominant force in the collective superpower that is the EU.

They could be a spoiler, but they could never be a dominant force. The creation of the Euro showed that.

AUKUS isn't as awkward as The Australia, New Zealand and United States Security Treaty, or ANZUS Treaty

R50, Australia did request Diesel engines initially. It wasn’t France who forced those engines on Australia. What the fuck are you talking about? France is perfectly capable of producing nuclear engines since it is one of the handful of countries that has a fleet of nuclear powered submarines. However, had this been the initial request from Australia, they would have refused for 2 reasons, the implications in terms of transfer of very sensitive military technology, and also the nuclear non proliferation treaty.

Anyway why should I bother. This being the DL, french bashing threads come back like clockwork.

That article at r67 is basically "why wasn't everything perfect from the beginning, with no growing pains or flaws or things that can be fixed? See, we were right that it could never work!"

Inferior sub is inferior sub

R67, economically the EU is a superpower. It’s the largest trading bloc in the world. When it comes to trading matters, it speaks as an equal to the US or China. You can’t roll the EU over when it comes to economic matters. The UK on the other hands is now an insignificant poodle that takes its orders from the US…

France's nuclear subs aren't a match to the US .

The slow roll from Macron about this means that the French press is blowing it up into a much bigger deal so he's done a few things to show them "look, I did something and shut them up.

All the woke bullshit comes from the west, I hope China becomes truly dominant.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said he had told French President Emmanuel Macron in June that Canberra could walk away from its €50 billion submarine contract.

“I made it very clear, we had a lengthy dinner there in Paris, about our very significant concerns about the capabilities of conventional submarines to deal with the new strategic environment we’re faced with,” Morrison told 5aa Radio.

R74 you seem "special".

However, had this been the initial request from Australia, they would have refused for 2 reasons, the implications in terms of transfer of very sensitive military technology, and also the nuclear non proliferation treaty.

R69, "nuclear non proliferation treaty" you do understand that nuclear powered submarines are not bombs, don't you?

At least this is a normal diplomatic row and the US president hasn't shat himself or pushed an old lady or something to tip it off.

[quote] AUKUS isn't as awkward as The Australia, New Zealand and United States Security Treaty, or ANZUS Treaty

New Zealand has proven to be an unreliable ally. It’s unfortunate that with Australia you get their little bitch NZ also.

Yay! Unity!

The UK and France have nukes? Both of those countries will muz majority in a few decades. Scary

Given Britain has been one of the biggest critics of the Afghan fallout I'm not quite sure why DL's wine drunk frogs thinks we're more of a poodle than we were in 2003 back when we were deep in the EU and when Blair led us into Afghanistan. As for now Johnson has said he dislikes "special relationship" he just points out that by and large Britain and America are in agreement foreign policy wise on most issues. Which is hardly surprising London favouring the continued military and cultural hegemony of an English speaking nation over Europe and Asia is pretty understandable . Britain wanting to arm a country it has deep cultural and economic ties with even before you get to the fact 90% of its people are eligible for British citizenship to weaken another expansionist power its currently in a war of words with with over Hong Kong is even less surprising .

R78, oh wow. Just wow. This is getting incredibly more absurd. The NNPT bans the usual of nuclear weapons and nuclear TECHNOLOGY for non-peaceful use.

I think this is rather the bigger story that so many stupid cunts do not seem to understand here. By providing nuclear powered submarines to Australia, Joe Biden is breaching an international treaty. After the sudden withdrawal from Afghanistan, without informing his allies, Joe Biden is proving that in a way he’s no better than Trump.

Blinken is really failing at his job. Creating divisions among allies is a very bad thing, and pissing off France for Australia is a dumb move.

R75 a link from the conservative Daily Mail, who never saw a royal or a Brexit they didn't like? Quoting a former State Department staff member who was there in a non political role and not appointed by Obama? THAT's your proof that the relationship between the US and the UK was strained under Obama and magically "fixed" under Trump?

All that shows is that the UK thinks very highly of themselves, which isn't any big shock.

You should read less conservative publications, they are deforming your brain.

R85 For the US, Australia is in a strategic position to counter the Chinese threat

R85 Hardly. The State Department was stripped of funding and in a shambles after Trump. Blinken has been fixing that AND handling this stuff. It's not going to be perfect every time.

This is about money. France doesn't give a shit about Australian security. They just see a 60 billion euro contract going down the drain.

R84 actually, he isn't breaching an International treaty. You should try "researching" some people who are actual experts in this shit and not just randomly Googling.

r85 Is it? The most France can do is finally get an EU defence force going so the continent can defend itself without US help. Since Russia is a drug fuelled hell scape propped up only by fossil fuels and doesn't represent even 1/10 the threat China does I'd say it's frankly a good example of realpolitik. Australia will pay the contract exit fee and the row will be over.

R75 The US views the Special Relationship as a joke because it is one. The UK hasn't been a strong and independent ally for decades. They're a captive lapdog who generally do whatever we say, even if it means invading Iraq for no good reason.

The UK isn't an ally or an equal. They're a client state. A puppet. A cute little Corgi that does a good trick and rarely shits on the rug.

The subs won’t make the Chinese tremble a single bit. Lol

R84, this has been a blast but I am afraid your complete stupidity is getting rather boring and I am sure you have to get up early tomorrow for your J6 rally. Stupid Trumper.

R81 please. Unity means that we will offer a hand, but if it's slapped away as it always is by the Republicans, we will proceed anyway, as we are in power. It doesn't mean we will do whatever they want for fear they're going to be mean to us.

I hope, when the blood has drained from your Yankee Doodles, you read this thread with a clear eye and realize what ghastly, fat headed asshole Americans act like.

R93 The Australians would have a stronger justification for these subs if they carried SSBMs with nuclear warheads. But the Aussies aren't a nuclear power, and are bound by treaty and domestic political concerns not to build them.

Now that would shut up the Red Devils.

R93 you'd sound less like a half-wit if you didn't add "lol" after each of your posts. They aren't funny, you just sound like you have some sort of brain tic.

We fart in your general direction, America!

Australian simply sells uranium

R96 We know we're ghastly, fat-headed assholes. But we're Top of the Pops in global affairs, and unless you'd prefer to be in debt bondage to that fascist state pretending to be communist, we're the lesser of two evils.

R81 - Please yourself. Oh wait, I imagine you do that nightly anyway.

R91 let's hope they do! They need their own defense force to counter Russia and China. The US can't do it all.

R101 sure, that's why China is blowing a gasket over it. Totally nothing!

Is Biden destroying everything he touches?

Half top of the pops, half why do we bother? You do realize you may have weight to throw around but nobody trusts you and its patently apparent your resolve is flagging. Throw in your unstable domestic affairs and failing democracy and your grasp of the top seems increasingly tenuous.

In any event, I leave you to your nationalism. Best the bubble bursts with no help from me.

R106 As if they weren't already a target.

Tell the Red Menace to stick to eating cats, butchering elephants, and torturing journalists. They can take their hollow indignation and pound it right up their sloped assholes.

The French are trying to shame Biden by saying this is the kind of move Trump would've pulled. LOL.

r101 That still sounds about a few centuries quicker development than the last deal they were in.

R106 Chinese state media is warning of "dire consequences if they don't get their way"?! Well now I've seen everything!

In 2014 McCain warned against Blinken being given any position of influence in government.

R107 no. Are you still beating off to monkey porn?

[quote] Is Biden destroying everything he touches?

Let's hope he's touching Kamalinadingdong. Does he sniff her hair?

R108 I suggest a nice soothing bath to cool your burned fingers and smarting senses.

Australia is a US vassal state.

R113 I'm sure "nuke Iran" McCain didn't count on the State Department being defunded and gutted under Trump, either, but here we are.

Le snit fit basé sur le blé. France lost billions. Macron has turned into a tiny tyrant with COVID. Avenir sombre.

France should come to the party for the sake of containing China.

Comme dabby tude.

How is Fox News covering this? They hate Biden and France.

If war came close, China would just release more Bio-weapons. Covid was only a trial.

One can imagine a day when the entire world lines up against China.

R123 - Yes, but thank God China won't eat our lunch!

[quote]How is Fox News covering this? They hate Biden and France.

Judging by the bizarre comments here about Antony Blinken being incompetent and Biden blowing up treaties, my guess is that they're talking about it a lot, but not very accurately.

The Republicans never let facts get in the way of their ambitions for power.

Reading americans comments is very interesting. Only when something like this happened you can see their true colors. You can whatever you want but you can't deny the fact that Australia had a contract with France since 2019 and that they cancelled it because USA as always betrayed its allies. The insults above towards the French say a lot about your hypocrisy and remind the way you behaved during the war in Iraq in which Jacques Chirac had put his veto right when Bush falsified documents of supposed chemical weapons that never existed. If you had listened France at the time, this would never have led Europe to follow you in your 30 years of wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. For a long time now the American leaders have been behaving like enemies with their allies and this is no secret for anyone except for you.

America has not warned anyone about the day of its withdrawal from Afghanistan and has once again sent millions of refugees to Europe, which had already been invaded by Syrian refugees imposed by the same America that never take its responsibilities for its mistakes. ISIS has attacked France several times on its own soil because of your dirty wars for oil. But that's okay, according to you, you are always right, you can do no wrong. History says the opposite.

I read above that without the USA the French would speak German? LOL, it was the British, the Russians who did the dirtiest job during the World War II. Europe, including France, called the USA to help and it took 4 years before you decided to intervene. This could have saved millions of Jews if you came at time. If I remember my history classes correctly, without Lafayette and the King of France who went as far as bankrupt to save the USA, you would never have had your independence. But the whole world has understood that you are ingrateful, traitors and bigots. Macron is frankly not a good leader, everyone knows that in Europe, but he is not wrong on this matter. France and Australia already had a contract. What the US and the British did was a betrayal, not to mention all the jobs that this project guaranteed.

But I'm going to stop here because the Americans' dumb reactions on here are predictable. The same as when France refused war in Iraq and you all called the French "Freedom fries", French fries" etc. You all are stupid and in decline anyway.

Once again karma will hit your obese asses.

[quote]They also said that top American officials had tried, unsuccessfully to schedule meetings with their French counterparts before news of the deal leaked in the Australian and American press.

The French must have known this was coming after their shenanigans with the Australia deal, and deliberately refused to meet with American officials so they could play innocent victim when the US-Australia deal was announced.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

R129 The French version is different. They say that Biden never warned and never called France. And no one will have any trouble believing this because we all know that Biden did not warn any of his allies about the date of withdrawal from Afghanistan.

[quote] fact that Australia had a contract with France since 2019 and that they cancelled

r128 I mean contract cancellation isn't a major thing so long as the indemnity is paid, anyone on earth can do it . Let alone nations. and France has consistently failed to deliver at every stage of their deal with Australia.

It’s cute that the lapdogs are arguing with each other.

r130 But the Australian PM did say he was looking for other options r76

A friend of mine is a manager. He represented a European country in a multilateral deal, way back in the 90s. I remember how disappointed he was when he told me how the manager representing the other party in the multi-million contract slid a paragraph in the circulated copy, right before it was to be signed, that would have shifted the production of a vital component from Europe to the US, had my friend not noticed it (because he read all the 400 pages, again, before he would agree to sign it). When called out, the manager from the US tried to laugh it away. It's business, he said. And then, ... there were Americans who didn't think this way and who are still great friends, way into retirement age. Biden apparently belongs to group A.

Didn’t the allies kept in from DeGaulle about the WW2 landing ?

Fuck the contracts, Australia and the US need to act in their best interests and China is a major security threat.

As funny as it sounds, this will help Biden with some of the yokels. They don't know anything about foreign policy but they love when we shit on the French.

"Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests."

Lord Palmerston

r135 Yes because it was a secret landing and he kept announcing shit on radio. Its hardly the worst thing the allies did to him in the war.

DeGaulle was informed two days before the landings. Several Free French warships supported the landings but only 177 French commandos went ashore on D-Day.

Americans who constantly yap about how their country saved Europe from nazism during WWII always crack me up. Although it is also a very sad reflection of the abysmal state of their education system. Hitler’s downfall was his decision to invade the Soviet Union, and the astonishing counter attack that country gradually mounted over the subsequent years. In the European theatre, the true heroes of WWII are the soviets, who lost 20 million people. The US were helpful, but not decisive like the Soviet Union. Same for WWI by the way. France and the UK had the situation firmly in control by 1917 when the US apparently “rescued” them.

Totally false, as always with American ignorants. R140

The reason the limit of 255 people on the ignored list is such a bad idea is because the really dedicated trolls are always posting with a whole slew of sockpuppets. I've ignored several people on this thread but I'm almost certain it's actually just one person, because they keep saying the same thing over and over.

How is Datalounge covering this? They love Biden and France.

Macron not getting it from the missus ?

Trump is probably jealous that HE didn't piss France off.

Who is the clueless idiot on this thread who keep pushing this false narrative that Biden didn't warn the allies of the date of withdrawal from Afghanistan?

It was announced during the Trump presidency. Biden pushed it back but the date was the date of total withdrawal. All very well publicized and discussed in advance with all allies.

The unexpected part was that the Taliban would retake the entire country in a week, which the intelligence services - not just the US ones - clearly did not expect to happen. That is when we had to scramble.

The UK pretended to make a big stink about it, as did France, because they were getting shit from their own people about it, and threw the US under the bus.

Any one of them - Germany, France, the UK - could have kept their troops there, or replaced the 3k troops the US withdrew. None of them did, and none of them seriously considered it. Why? Because they wanted out too, and they used the US as cover. And not for the first time.

Anyone who says otherwise is being disengenuous or is totally ignorant as to how any of this worked, and in which case should shut their big yaps about it.

[Quote][R123] - Yes, but thank God China won't eat our lunch!

They'll be too busy eating bats, monkey penises, rats, and shitting in the street. You know, like any other day ending in -y.

[quote]I've ignored several people on this thread but I'm almost certain it's actually just one person, because they keep saying the same thing over and over.

Wow, paranoid schizophrenic much?

Love Macron!

Americans can eat shit.

R87 Australia is not worth much in countering China. After failing to find a foothold against China in Central Asia, India and SE Asia, the US now ends up with the weak 5 Eye alliance and the even weaker AUKUS. At most, it might be a distraction for China. To really counter China, the US needs to ally with Russia. That is the only real threat China fears. Everything else is just an annoyance. But the US stupidly pushed Russia straight into the China's arm, so the whole game is already lost.

Ah, Ling Ling has started her shift.

[quote] Australia is not worth much in countering China

Australia, Japan, the UK, and the US. It's all cumulative. And if Australia has finally gotten past its nuclear phobia even Japan is probably on track to do the same.

What's going to happen to Taiwan?

Good move for Macron. Time to get out of the American Nato.

R155 Bet you he'll stay in NATO. Like others have said, this seems to be purely a hissy fit over money. But if the French contract went from $35 billion to $90 billion I can't blame the Australians for being exasperated.

I'm sure R128 posts from Moscow!

They knew it was coming back in February. The "we were blindsided!!" is b.s.

R151 lol at the US pushing RUSSIA into anyone's arms.

Russia does what it wants and likes to pretend it's still a world power when it's really the world's pariah state. It's a kleptocracy and dictatorship at this point under Putin, who is trying to return it to its former form of the Soviet Union.

Russia is like the lying, thieving relatives you have that are always ending up in jail or losing their kids, but protest the entire time how they're innocent and they were set up.

Russia blames the US for a lot of its troubles as a convenient scapegoat because they don't want their people to realize they're being robbed blind. Of course many realize this, but because Russia practically teaches cynicism and nihilism as grade school courses, they just assume that the rest of the world is as shitty as Russia. It's not.

R154 Xi Jinping is going to invade it at some point. Likely we won't be able to stop them without an outright confrontation with China, but who knows. Part of the reason the US is trying to strengthen its posture in the area is because China has been doing it for decades, and has picked up steam recently.

The good thing about the pandemic is that it forced people to take a look at how consolidation in manufacturing was a BAD thing. Something like 90% of the world's chips are made in Taiwan. Hopefully that is going to change, but who knows.

I love Macron. Somethings so adorably feisty about him.

R128's English is curiously broken.

Does AUKUS include a defence pact like NATO?

It's funny that China is already threatening Australia with war when Australia will have nuclear powered submarines in some 20 years while China has 6 of them now.

Thin skinned bullies, they actually have nukes, Australia doesn't.

[quote] The most France can do is finally get an EU defence force going so the continent can defend itself without US help.

Trump will be pleased to see Europe pony up the money to pay for their defense.

R164 a broken clock is right twice a day!

R165 Nah, from the sounds of what R16 is saying, the EU is still betting that the Brits will still take most of the slack that way. The Germans are still too cheap to pay for an army despite being the wealthiest member of the EU. Fun fact: Von der Leyen was widely regarded as a disastrous German defence minister and she's now president of the European Commission. Not a good sign for EU-army fans...

R166 Oh I don't think this will cause it to happen, but it needs to happen, and will likely, eventually.

2020 -- Only one in three NATO members meet their agreed upon financial obligations.

R168 it's not a financial obligation, it's a goal, and it's not as straight forward as that because some of the countries contribute in other ways. I do think many of them should up the amounts spent, though.

[quote]Von der Leyen was widely regarded as a disastrous German defence minister and she's now president of the European Commission. Not a good sign for EU-army fans...

Ursula von der Leyen is in favor of the EU building up their own military. Even the German Greens are in favor of an EU army. Interestingly the German Greens are actually the only major party who is opposing Russian gas and trade deals with China. Both the center right CDU and the center left SPD are kowtowing to Putin and Xi.

It will be beneficial for EU countries to move money from social programs to paying for defense. It will encourage more individual self-reliance.

You can't fault the Australians for wanting the most technologically advanced submarines possible. They were supposed to buy an inferior product just to give the French a financial win? It's a navy, not a charity.

R165 And a broken record is annoying all the time, like Trump.

We're all seriously supposed to sit home and sob that one group of amoral merchants of death lost out to a different group? Really?

I hope Mme. Maman did not have a hip shattered from the rage sex.

[quote]The Belarus government had "instrumentalised" migrants by sending them to the borders of EU nations. She accused Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko of "a hybrid attack to destabilise Europe"

This is what I have been saying for years. Putin knew Merkel wouldn't say no to migrants from the middle east and he also knew they would cause trouble, that sexual assaults on women and terror attacks would increase, resulting in the destabilization of the EU. That's why Putin supported Assad slaughtering his own people, exacerbating the refugee situation.

Hillary Clinton was talking about Putin playing 3D chess, she warned about the destabilizing of the EU with the rise of the far right as a result of a dangerous refugee policy by Merkel.

R174 "Amoral Merchants of Death" would be a good name for my new bowling league.

I'm not sure the VMAs do punk, but if they do, r177, I hope you are there.

r174 The only one sobbing seems to be Macron. I'd guess even in the rest of France the main reaction has been a Gallic shrug, vague muttering about perfidious Albioners at it again, and then mass indifference.

I really do wonder what game Merkel has been playing all these years. We know her predecessor Schroeder after he lost the election to Merkel went straight to Russia and sits on the boards of Gazprom and Rosneft.

R171 oh please. They have self reliance. They just don't work themselves to death like we Americans do, which is not something to be emulated.

Australia had problems with the contract long before the US and the UK got involved. The French company was screwing them and still hasn't delivered the product, plus the cost had ballooned. They should have notified the French in more advance but they didn't. And for some reason, France is focusing on blaming the US rather than Australia over it.

This wasn't our problem and still isn't. For the French, it's all about money, and they are trying to find a way to pretend that isn't the issue but it is.

true r171, more death, more work, more death, more work. Why is anyone not working for death, and working to death? It's all so confusing.

If Macron wants to make a statement, he should announce they will build a military base on Taiwan to protect them from Chinese attack.

Harry and Meghan should step in to solve this.

R185 you should see someone about your obsession. It's unhealthy.

Biden should have invited Taiwan into this pact and call it TAUKUS. Just to piss off Xi.

[quote]I love Macron. Somethings so adorably feisty about him.

The word is 'petulant'. Unfortunately all too common in his country. Living in France cured me of any feelings of attraction I used to have for them.

R188 How did you handle the smell?

Like I said, r188. I'm cured.

* r189

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Amazing that R192's Independent article is 23-years-old already.

Biden can't repair this. Send in Kamala.

I sure hope they don't rename some American food like we did with French Fries.

r195, I hope they do, to show the similarity to when France stabbed the U.S. in the back. France doesn’t like it when they get a taste of their own medicine.

What did the French waiter say when the Nazis marched into Paris?

Table for 70,000 ?

biden is so smart. This bullshit pushes the US closer to a war with China

All so some fucking US companies can make money with the submarine project.

R198 you're an idiot.

R198 is either some woke Aussie who loves socialism or a Chinese bot. They say China already owns Australia.

r198 For fucks sake Ling-Ling. Could you at least reread your "How to correctly use capital letters and punctuation to make glorious great Peoples Republic" handbook before coming to infest us?

90% of everything (including medications) are made in China

All of our manufacturing left America so the top 5% of Americans could get even richer. We have wars so that the American military will take out a current regime and allow American companies to come in and make money. They'd never be able to do it on their own. It would simply cost too much. Instead the taxpayers pay the cost of it

I'm tired of our military being used as body guards for companies belonging to America's richest citizens

America needs to think long and hard before starting anything with China. Covid would look like a day at the beach if China decided to stop sending goods to America

[quote] In the US or the UK, the crone would be in prison. But it's France, so nobody cares.

Is that so, R10?

Western countries need to stop trading with China. They are humorless bullies and not to be trusted. We should start demanding reparations for the millions of deaths and trillions of economic damage because of covid.

R203 He was 18 and she was 42 when they started dating. The age of consent in the UK is 16. And she wasn't his teacher. So basically that one is legal. Macron was underage and she was his teacher which is pretty different.

The original deal Australia struck with France (by then Australian Prime Minister Tony 'The Mad Monk' Abbott) was largely seen in Australia at the time as one of Abbott's many mistakes.

I don't think Australia has handled its way out of the agreement with France well. Clearly the Australian Government could not discuss the new agreement they were making with the US and UK with France but they still could have been told just before the actual announcement.

Also, as a good gesture Australia could have offered France some free resources with so many billions (I don't know what amount but something). Anyway, as what usually happens the French Ambassadors will slip back into Australia and U.S. in the next couple of months.

Australia is likely to have a change of Government sometime between the December and May so that will lead to a fresh start to relations again given the ALP had nothing to do with the original deal. And the French shouldn't be so shitty with Biden or the US because these arrangements started under Trump.

I'm starting to think that Biden sucks honestly. Afghanistan, now this AUkus crap... What's next? High taxes? Err, wait...

R207 The agreement was started 18 months ago under Trump. The plans to withdrawn from Afghanistan were drawn up by Trump.

And on top of that when Biden came into office he had to deal with COVID outbreak the Trump had badly fucked up.

Up until this point Biden has been dealing with things undertaken by Trump - he hasn't had a chance yet to make his own fuck ups.

Troll Alert = R207

[quote]I'm starting to think that Biden sucks honestly.

As opposed to the former guy who sucked dishonestly.

QUAD was an idea of Japan, it's being discussed at the upcoming meetings and I do think Biden is fully behind AUKUS.

What will we do if France cuts off our supply of Gruyere? How will we ever survive without Croque-Monsieur?

Breaking news:

President Macron has ordered the cast and crew of "Emily in Paris" out of France. The 2nd season will now be filmed on a soundstage in Burbank!!!

This truly is a march toward war.

R213 Good God. The fool is only harming his own people. The number of French people employed on the show must be enormous.

This has gotten really silly. I get he is pissed off but you don't cut the throats of your own people. Clearly Macon wants to be seen as a Global player but the situation between UK/UK & Australia really has more to do with the rise of China in the Indo-Pacfic region something Frances is probably better staying out of.

The days China invades Taiwan - and it is going to happen sooner or later will result in at best an armed conflict in the region or the nuclear demise of China, Australia, Taiwan, U.S. and U.K. Does he really want France on that list.

R214, I was just joking! Only trying to point out how ridiculous this situation is.

The French act like they still have a empire. They surrendered it a long time ago.

Fuck France. Le Pen will most likely win the next race anyway.

But on a serious note, France wouldn’t want to be involved in the wrangling in this part of the world. As someone who lives in the region, I can always feel how testy things have been lately.

I'm an Australian and I find the French Ambassador tearing our PM a new one in front of the National Press Club a case of "about time". Our PM and current government are a bunch of utter creeps. Whatever you think of what's happened, it's inspiring that someone finally stood up and said it with no fucks to give.

Oh la la ! Biden pissed off our oldest ally !

Old ladies are grumpy, not surprised.

R214 LOL at all the China Invades Taiwan fantasy. There will be no war because the ROC will surrender to the PRC when push comes to shove. It's not even a contest when the PRC has all the advantage.

There is no way the esp the US and Japan will allow China to annex Taiwan. Just like Russia taking Crimea, it will embolden the aggressors even more.

Just like the US, both France and Germany have their warships in the South China sea atm.

Xi is nuts if he thinks the Western World will just stand by allowing China to become world leader.

China becoming world leader is inevitable. The US is in decline. They've had a good run since WW II but it's happened to every empire before. The only thing surprising is how fast it's happening.

China has no friends, no real alliances. All of its neighbors hate them. The western democratic world will not stand by and accept a drastic shifting of the world order with China on top.

China and Russia are building a new military alliance while NATO declines.

R223- China is NOT going to become the leader of ANYTHING.

They can't even keep the factories operating in the northeast of China where all of the CHEAP CRAP the west buys is manufactured.

They have a severe shortage of coal so they've had to close a lot of the factories and people in that part of China have had to endure blackouts. Their financial system is built upon a house of cards. It can collapse any time.

Ahem

And China's new silk road initiative means it'll have effective control over an important part of the world.

Seems majority Muslim now anyway, at least in spirit.

Russia knows better than to trust China. Russia has no interest in supporting China to take over the world only to then be betrayed at the end. No one is in China's friend zone although there are MANY countries deeply in debt to China. That's more of a concern. This is all leading to another world war which will be precipitated by a worldwide economic collapse. Hello 1930-40s all over again.

Mind you, it won't be tomorrow. It might not be for another five years. But bet your ass, it is coming. And it's coming a hell of a lot faster than the polar ice caps melting.

The alliance between Russia and China rests on a weak foundation.

A lot of predictions I'm reading are saying that it's thought China's time at the top may be extremely short, or they may not even get there because the country is on really shaky ground, especially with the rollbacks the leader wants to make.

Macron's latest dye job is hideous.