Alanis Morissette Says Multiple Men Had Sex With Her When She Was Just 15

'SO DID i"?? types Phillywhore. No one cares Alanis about your "stretched-out cummy dirty parts", you FISH

I knew more than a few girls who were sexually active at age 15. And a couple of them were very happy to sleep with older men, who were less immature, had cars, money, etc.

The idea that these girls were victims makes me laugh, it really does. Victim culture reminds me a lot of the whole “born again” con.

Sure, Jan.

[quote]The idea that these girls were victims makes me laugh, it really does.

You are an idiot.

I’m tired of people having accusations without naming people. How are you truly helping other victims if you allow your abuser to unpunished. Said abuser could be out there doing it to someone today. It’s an attention ploy unless you give names

Alanis is an "attention-whore" who needs a career boost. Now ahe going the "Madonna, gagda, McGowan raped out hag route" No one cares....BTW, ur dirty pussy still stinks like men& cum.

Hands Clean

If that’s all you’ve got, R4, we’ll consider that a concession.

Bootsy gumdrop is one of the most vile trolls here, why hasn't it been redtagged and banned yet?

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F&F pedophile apologist R2.

But, was Dave Coulier one of them? Did he "OUGHTA KNOW?"

Ugly Anscher or DeFatTurd, r9/r11?

Come on, take the anon mask off.

R4 No. You're just oblique. R2 is seeing clearly.

[quote]Alanis is an "attention-whore" who needs a career boost.

Then why is she not even going to the premiere of a documentary about her?

[quote]we’ll consider that a concession.

That you think you "consider" anything is adorable.

R9 why? I only see speaking truth. R8 Bravo!

Lucky bitch!

Alanis has really packed on the pounds.

It depends on the individual: i’ve known people who could handle it at 15 and people who couldn’t handle it at 35.

I’m glad that all the above posters have had friends who had no problems in the decades and decades since they were 15. It’s a tale one always hears from the ‘friends’ of people when these stories are told, especially from people in their fifties and above.

I, on the other hand, had a sexual relationship with a 35 year-old married minister starting when I was 14 which effected me is ways I wasn’t even aware of until I was 35 myself.

It has made me distrustful of people I love, ruined my relationship with my remaining family, and was the root cause of several years of such heavy substance abuse I ended up homeless. After ten years and somewhere around $100,000 in out-of-pocket psychiatry bills, I am aware of the ways it has changed me for the worse.

I’m happy for all of you who took part in, or were aware of, so many cases of statutory rape that had happy endings but there are others of us who decidedly did not share that experience.

To the argument that it’s all moot if you don’t name names, naming the man that preyed on me would not only ruin my life but, by proxy, the life of a few other people I know. I’m the end, I can no longer expect criminal charges to be filed nor really have any proof of it ever got that far. Excuse me for thinking the onus should first fall on institutions and law enforcement to find criminals, not victims.

And Bootsy-Gumdrop, I also think you’re an idiot, which your posting history bears out. Are you also going to accuse me of being Defacto or Matt as well because I don’t agree with you?

I wonder now if she wrote 'Hands Clean' from the perspective of these men? (otherwise she's a big hypocrite)

Someone is in desperate need of attention.

[quote] F&F pedophile apologist

Oh, dear.

People still get married at 15. Give me a break.

R26, only girls. I challenge you to cite one case in the last decade of a 15 year-old boy being married in the US. I’ll wait.

Child marriage in the US only happens when an older man gets a young teen woman pregnant. It is legal dubious to begin with as a contract which one party can’t isn’t able to break is not legal. You can’t sue for divorce until you are 18.

Of course it was, r23, she told about it at the time even if the lyrics were quite explicit. No one much cared.

By riding a subway naked, wasn't she clearly asking for it?

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

r28 Ah fair enough, I didn't know (I was a just a kid back then)

The article at r30 points out that 87% of children who marry are under the age of 18, so that means 13% of boys are affected as well. The article tells of an 11 year old boy who got married.

Another interesting statistic: those who marry under the age of 18 have higher rates of poverty and divorce later in life compared to those who marry after the age of 18.

^ sorry, are girls under the age of 18

I worked with a gay guy once and over heard him telling someone else that he was frequenting gay bars looking before he was ever legal to do so. He said his most heard pick up line was "Can I buy you a glass of MILK!" Haha

^^^looooong before he was ever legal to do so

Nobody wants me when im 15.

None of those figures that I could see say that any of those boys who were married under the age of 18 married an adult, which is the topic being discussed in this thread.

I also went to high school with girls who dated older guys. These were fast LA girls though who saw boys their own age as pimply and immature, and this was in the '90s, so it was a different time, I guess. Not condoning it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of posters knew [italic]that[/italic] girl (or guy) in HS.

Once again in English, r16?

I grew up in an affluent NYC suburbs and most kids were having sex by 15 or 16. In middle school two 13 year olds were caught fucking by the girl’s mom and she was sent to Catholic school. A 15 year old sophomore with a senior boyfriend got knocked up and they got married (still married!) By junior or senior year many of the girls had older boyfriends who were out of school. My own sister had a crush on a 20-something year old guy when she was 15 and totally threw herself at him with every intention of banging him. The 80s weren’t nearly as repressed as today. It was accepted that kids were going to fuck.

A whore wants to play the victim game. NOBODY CARES

R29, isn't it ironic?

Don'tcha think?

[quote] Alanis Morissette had sex with multiple men when she was Just 15

She's not a slut. She is The Slut!

R40, that was my experience, too. I was fucking when I was 15. I wanted to do it, and my partners were other kids my age. It was kind of thrilling and it didn’t traumatize me, although I did have some negative experiences. It’s part of life, and I wanted to experience life. Not every sexual encounter is a deep and loving soul-mingle.

I don’t know what Alanis’s experiences were, but she’s entitled to her opinion. It’s not correct to assume that every 15-year old girl is incapable of wanting and consenting to sex with a person her own age. (Older people should keep their distance, IMO.)

what else can you expect from a lost continent.

Alanis rips the documentary and its director.

Some 15 year old girls are not ready, still virginal, sheltered. Some are ready to goooo.

I think it is the power/age difference that can be destructive for the teen girl or boy, if they are hooking up with a 30 something or older guy.

Loved some of her tunes from Jagged at the time. Recently listened again. Was surprised how Not so good much of it was. It seemed so awesomely radical at the time. Also, she too is for me an artist who needed videos. The music didn't work so well just on its own. Many of that time are the same.

Shocked at how big she is. She shared about her food issues early in her fame & was supportive to groups for people with eating disorders. Seems like she collapsed into her ED. Maybe being, active, in the food,again may be fueling her & not in a good way. For some afflicted with actual psychiatric ED(not just occasional overeating) it is mind, mood, behavior altering.

Alanis was a teenager in the entertainment industry. I'm sure she was preyed upon heavily by creepy older man--it's endemic in that field.

As a 41 year old college professor, I could not imagine sleeping with ANY of my students. They're barely above being kids in their mentalities, and nowhere near mature enough to consider dating.

I always side-eye those with very age-discordant relationships, especially if the younger partner is under 21/22. The older partner needs a psychiatrist more than they do a relationship.

Who were these older guys? College boys? Hot local musicians? Teachers at her high school, or her friends' fathers? Entertainment company executives who told her she'd never have a career in music if she didn't fuck her way up?

Betcha it was the last. Quid pro quo sexual harrassment is rampant in the music industry, and worse.

She just wants media attention

[R20], you're right - she has packed on the pounds. Do you know why? In the late 1990s she toured like a motherfucker. Her concerts were presentations in tearing your heart and soul out for two and half hours a night. Try eating or sleeping after that. Whether she used drugs to get her through these exhausting tours is anybody's guess. After awhile, she decided she didn't want to end up like Stevie Nicks and Janis Joplin. She said fuck this, she found a husband, she had children.

She's height weight proportionate now. And your comment just feeds into the 'women need to be thin to be attractive to the bruhs in the frat.' OP, I have some news for you from Alanis. She'd like me to tell you, "WHY DON'T YOU GROW THE FUCK UP AND START HAVING IDEAS FOR YOURSELF INSTEAD OF PUTTING *ME* DOWN! I MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, DONATING A GOOD SHARE OF IT TO CHARITY. AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS I PACKED ON POUNDS? I PITY YOU AND YOUR NARROW MINDED LIFE. Do the world a favour. Don't get married. And for fuck's sake DON'T REPRODUCE!"

Not sure why I’m shocked by the responses but I’m shocked by the responses. You people really are horrid. She was 15.

Like her look here. She looks normal and healthy for her age. Give her a break! Many people gain weight and look different as they grow older. But that "Isn't it Ironic" song was a beautiful clusterfunk. Love the song but it's ironic that most of the lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with irony. Just bad luck.

Don't question someone's emotional reality. If she says that she feels weird about what happened then that's how it is. It's really obnoxious when something like this happens and a bunch of people say "NO, shut up. She's not allowed to feel this way".

[quote] It has made me distrustful of people I love, ruined my relationship with my remaining family, and was the root cause of several years of such heavy substance abuse I ended up homeless.

You don’t *really* know why you have trust and got on drugs. It’s nice to have somewhere to place your blame though, isn’t it. Life is complex. Our brains are complex. Just do the best you can and don’t try to look for an explanation or a justification.

Well, that turn out to be a Jagged Little Documentary.

She had her time, her success. Accept life moves on. So does fame & being big.

A straight male interested in a mature bodied 15 year old acting and looking way older than her age is not a pedophile. Can we please stop distorting this.

if these were grown ass male studio executives in their 30s or 40w or even in their 20s then it was both illegal (I assume the age of consent was higher) and totally inappropriate.

if it was an 18, 19 or 20 year old roadie or fellow musician then I don't have a problem with that. Girls mature way earlier than boys and that means in many instances they know what they want. Can they handle it? I don't know depends on the person but I know 30 year old women who aren't mature enough to handle a relationship.

Hey if Britney can handle a relationship then a sane 15 year old is probably a better if poorer bet.

Great way to justify statutory rape r60. Thanks for sharing.

[quote] I, on the other hand, had a sexual relationship with a 35 year-old married minister starting when I was 14 which effected me is ways I wasn’t even aware of until I was 35 myself.

You are making the assumption that it was the fact that you were 15 and had a sexual relationship and that is what caused all the issues you list.

How about the fact he was a minister or married or 20 years older?

Why do you presume that it was your age rather than some other psychological reason you already had?

I suspect that there was an underlying psychiatric/psychological issue that resulted in the litany of very sad experiences you had. Not simply that you at 15 had sex.

I hope you are successfully dealing with your issue.

Yeah, the life of a superstar singer is not for everyone. Performing as much as she did? All that non stop touring, television, movies, AND motherhood?!! Alanis, I don't know how you did it!

I'm guessing that the men Alanis had sex with were not teenagers, either. I listened to her music a lot when it came out. She was open about her eating disorder.

I think that, at this point, people should probably start naming names.

It is obvious from her previous and current comments this were not high school kids fucking when he is a couple of years older, but much older men from the music industry. Read the lyrics from Hands Clean. Which, inthe same album, is followed by a music called Flinch.

If there is someone who should not cause surprise on the subject is her who, unlike others, raised and told the issue 15 years ago when it was not the thing to do it.

Whatever happened, she turned lemons in to lemonade. Without those experiences the songs of Jagged Little Pill would never have been that angry and that vibrant and connected to so many people. At least she took her pain and grief and made something out of it, and as the saying goes success is the best revenge.

R60, I have to tell you that when people open their arguments with semantic points, it’s generally because they have a weak argument. Since you are such a fan of precise definitions then I would ask you to define inappropriate. I always thought it pertained to situations like wearing shorts to court, not a 40-year-old having sex with a 15-year-old.

R62, are you being purposefully obtuse? Of course I’m not arguing that simply being 14 is what caused my trauma. No where do I say, nor has anyone else on this thread including AM said, that 15-year-olds are harmed by having sex with people their own age. It sounds like if I had not mentioned that my abuser was married and a minister then you wouldn’t have any problems with it.

To all who question how I know that my subsequent mental health problems were caused by this experience, I’ll refer you to the mental health professionals that have treated me. The consensus is that this relationship started a cascade of connected events and decisions and it is borne out by the fact that I did not have to attend rehab to stop abusing drugs and don’t have to take any psychoactive medication to get through life.

"You Oughta Know" is supposed to be about a much older man. I have to say that the lyrics don't reflect anger about an age difference (i.e., don't reflect being taken advantage of by a much-older person). Yes, the anger is clearly expressed, but it's not apparent there was an age difference.

Would be interesting to hear Alanis talk about the song, they lyrics, etc.

^Isn't "You Oughta Know" about Dave Coulier?

She should blame her parents as well.

R67 I'm sorry you went through that tony and appreciate you sharing that, knowing the risk of shitty responses. Know there are people here that aren't that way and do understand because they've went through similar experiences.

R60 ah yes, the old "girls mature sooner" deflection, that's been used to justify adult men fucking little girls since the dawn of time. I love the extra hypocrisy at the end though, where you say there's 30 yr old women that aren't mature enough to handle sex.

There's nothing to indicate female brains mature faster. All teens lack development of the part of the brain responsible for making choices. Nor does it matter if a teen "wants it". It's not on them to decide, it's on the damn adult to know better and not be a selfish pig. No adult men are being held at gun point, being told they have to fuck a teenager.

R62 just stop. There's plently off research to look at that goes into why that would be damaging. It's a person of authority abusing the relationship and power dynamics. It's also their experience so I'd think they'd have more insight into why they struggled than you, a random person on the internet. So many users go on and on about how shitty people are to each other but don't look in the mirror.

r59 this has zero to do with her fame. She's a multimillionaire with more money than you. I doubt she sits around weeping that it's no longer 1996. Someone check r60s browser history.

What’s worse, an 18 year old high school student willingly fucking a 30-something year old teacher or 30-something year old who picks up a young lovely in a bar, completely down to fuck, but turned out to be a 15 year old who used fake ID to get into the bar?

R68, the man in the song was Dave Coulier (from Full House).

Thanks, R75. Coulier is now 61, Morissette is now 47. So, that's a 14-year age difference. Would be interesting to find out how she would characterize the relationship, now.

Did she have to pay the men?

She has always denied it was Coulier. He's the one who claims it is..what a douche.

[quote] if I had not mentioned that my abuser was married and a minister then you wouldn’t have any problems with it.

Of course that makes a difference. How can you not see that?

If it had been the minister's 18 year old son there wouldn't be a problem unless you were too emotional immature or psychologically damaged to handle it. Even then it wouldn't - on its own - create psychiatric issues.

I just came back from the TIFF premiere of Jagged, the documentary about the phenomenon of the album Jagged Little Pill.

It's a fucking brilliant documentary and I'm really sad that Alanis is not supporting it. She should because she comes across as incredibly intelligent, witty, likable, and insightful.

I have a feeling Alanis is more worried about legal repercussions than anything, although she doesn't name names. And she probably doesn't like the fact that she didn't have final cut.

But I think the director did an excellent job.

Any other Alanis fans here?

I think JLP, while definitely good, is actually her least really good album.

Maybe I just have JLP fatigue but I love her newer work and still think SFIJ is probably her best overall effort.

She was a just a typical teenage slut that enjoyed using men for their money and power. Very common in the 1980's in Canada when the age of consent was only 14. As a closeted gayling the same age as her at the same time period in the same city, I can confirm teenage girls then and there were EXTREMELY promiscuous and bragged about it. As an adult woman, now she blames the men who made her wealthy and famous for her own calculated choices. Another example why I dislike feminists and feel sorry for straight men having to deal with women.

R81, Alanis Morissette fan here.

"That I Would Be Good" is one of my faves. "You Oughta Know," of course.

Another favorite song by Alanis: Joining You, esp. this live Unplugged version.

Women really want to be coddled badly. This infantilism has to stop already. Take some responsibility, stop being a professional victim. Jesus Christ.

[quote] I have a feeling Alanis is more worried about legal repercussions than anything, although she doesn't name names. And she probably doesn't like the fact that she didn't have final cut.

What exactly is in it that’s damaging to her? Why does she care?

[quote]if it was an 18, 19 or 20 year old roadie or fellow musician then I don't have a problem with that.

Well, thank GOD, you're okay with it, R60. Whew! Now teenage girls everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief.

R67, if your mental health professionals have cost you 100,000 dollars you can assume they do n’t have your best interests at heart. They are causing you more damage than the minister.

Who is that who attacked in Alanis’ name? Are you just a fan hunny? You don’t know this queen, don’t lie.

I’m appalled by some - no, many - of the comments here. Tony Woodward in his comments speaks not just of his own experience, but for many others.

I KNEW she was a whore back then!

At my junior high, two girls aged 14 were dating two guys aged 28. The guys would come after school and pick them up. When the guys arrived, the girls would make a lot noise so their classmates could see how cool they were to be dating older men.

Both girls were very developed, party girls, from broken homes, we’re well-liked and knew what they were doing. I said to one of them that I wished I could be like her (I was shy and “proper”) and she replied with ‘you don’t want to be like me.’ They both turned out fine in the long run.

I had sex at 15 after being pressured by my boyfriend repeatedly. I absolutely was not emotionally ready for it and it was a horrible experience that still haunts me when I think about it, him, and what he did to me. I didn’t have sex again until I was 18. I was ready and willing at that point.

But she’s perverted and went down on him in a theatre. Admittedly.

There seems to be two schools of thought now running at the same time. Women are constantly told to be sex positive, open to porn, bisexuality, no commitment sex, "fucking like a man" and to be quick and casual about any physical relationships. Almost all TV roles are like this. TV women fall into bed at the drop of a hat and it's only prudes and religious maniacs that maybe want to wait even just a little while. Then on the other hand, there is this almost Victorian perspective that practically all men are out to harm and rape women and to be wary of ANY male attention because THEY ONLY WANT ONE THING!!!

Not sure what this has to do with Alanis but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

I'm sad that Alanis is horrified at the new documentary and doesn't want to support it - I love her and was looking forward to seeing it, but after seeing her comments I'll avoid it. I have huge respect for her as an artist and as a person.

Tune I loved the most Thank U. Very inspiring, including the video. A journey of evolution to being able to connect to the light of love. This latest Media drop on her 32 year old sexual Herstory ala #MeToo(she's 47now, 15 then)seems like she has moved backwards from the tenor & beauty of Thank U.

Hope she can find peace & healing & reach for the light again

R88, you have absolutely no idea about the quality or intentions of the medical professionals I’ve dealt with. While it might be acceptable for you to visit a non-licensed counselor to save money, I didn’t think the sole fact that someone could afford to rent an office and have business cards printed enough reason to trust my mental health to them.

R23 I thought Hands Clean was supposed to be about Glen Ballard. She apparently met him after she graduated high school, so she was of age, though he was nearly 20 years older.

Man does she look old, she's just missing the short pixie cut hairstyle and she's full blown soccer mom.

R97, get a second opinion-£100,000 for therapy is obscene, I’m genuinely concerned for you

Sad she still hasn't figured out that lots & lots of men, especially those who troll the waters for young youngen's are absolute dogs. Didn't anyone clue her in on this. Learned this shit on my mother's knee. Whenever an older dude is pursuing youngens' he's a creep. Nothing shocking, nothing new. Ah, for the good old days when Daddy or big brother met perspective beaus of girls with a shot gun casually under their arm. When communities were tight & your old girl neighbor would hit that old creep w. her umbrella if he even dared to talk to you. Then she'd drag you for a coffee & tell you how life rolled.

I wonder if she is looking back on her adolescence and teen sexuality from a mother’s lens now that she has children. It’s a parent”s responsibility to know where their 15 year old is and to ensure they have adult supervision against “predators.” I wonder if she blames her parents for not “protecting” her from the predatory environment she grew up in.

Even a 17 year old today is considered a child (even though it's the age of consent in most states) and men who have sex with 17 year old are called pedophiles (Prince Andrew.)

We're in a weird world where women can be extremely sexual but men have to be very careful about being sexually aggressive in any way. Even commenting on a woman's appearance can cost a man his job but women in NYC now wear bikini bras as tops in the street and that's perfectly fine.

She is right, no men past their early twenties should ever fee attracted to teenagers, it IS a crime, however that doesn't mean she didn't want it,she has to own her mistake, tough her mistake would NEVER justify their pedophilia. Gross men!

When I read the article I was expecting her to be a hypocrite like so many on here implied, but she said herself that it took her a while to even accept that at 15, she wasn't really old enough to consent.

I don't have any issues in my past with consenting at too early of an age, but as an adult I look back on a whole lot of situations at home and in school where adults were not behaving appropriately and kids were being expected to deal with things they shouldn't have been, like assigning a kid in grade school to "monitor" another kid with a behavioral disorder, or kids who had to manage their parents' behavior or addictions, things like that. For the things I was personally involved with I was well into my 30s before I realized how abusive some of it was, so I can understand where she's coming from.

It's kind of difficult for me to understand someone who is an adult looking back on a 15yo girl they went to school with who was sleeping with men approaching 30 and thinking "she knew what she was doing, it was consensual, this is all b.s."

[quote]“I would always say I was consenting, and then I’d be reminded like ‘Hey, you were 15, you’re not consenting at 15.’

Translation she consented and now has second thoughts. She feels bad she was a whore at 15 and now is playing the victim card instead of taking responsibility for her poor choices.

Age is arbitrary if they set the legal age at 15 she would legally be consenting and would she have the same game plan? No, no way out would be offered.

Until she owns up and accepts responsibility for whatever she did, she will be a miserable person, who hasn't had a hit since 1995.

R100, I didn’t spend £100,000 on therapy, I spent £72,000.

Since you seem to be from the UK and thus have no real idea of the costs of healthcare in the United States, widely known as the most expensive place in the world for health care covered by insurance or not, I’m genuinely concerned that you sound like a fool.

Usually psychiatrist’s rates in NYC can be between $300-$500 a session with no insurance accepted.

Does anyone even wonder why the Full House guy is involved in this? Was he considered hot? I always thought he was creepy.

Ugh. I hate this babying of women. She's allowed to regret these encounters, or be upset about them, but call them rape? Come on......

[italic]The Daily Beast[/italic] has posted an article about this from the perspective of celebrities wanting final approval of how they're portrayed in third-party documentaries. Alanis, gurl, unless you're making your own documentary, that's not how it works.

R26 = classic pedophile defense.

Not even sure where you're seeing 15 year olds marrying without raising eyebrows. As others noted, these marriages always feature child brides but never child grooms. Only a handful of cultures still allow this and they're never very developed cultures. Like, we're looking to the Taliban and Romani cultures now for justifying sex with minors? Oh okay.

Some real sick fucks post here. Like how the fuck can you claim child marriage is normal??? Da fuq???

R110 a fifteen year old is not a woman you fucking freakshow.

How many 15 year old boys are married off to 30-year-old women?

Ewwww like R Kelly? I kinda suspect gross Dave Cloutier since You Oughta Know is about him.

[quote] A straight male interested in a mature bodied 15 year old acting and looking way older than her age is not a pedophile. Can we please stop distorting this.

That’s my only problem with her story. Yes, guys who want to fuck 15-year-olds (girls or boys) are pathetic and depending on local laws, committing statutory rape. But that is not PEDOPHILIA unless the 15-year-old somehow still had the body of an 8-year-old or something.

“No one knows except the both of us…”

“Hands Clean” is one of the few songs of hers that I think is actually pretty okay for what it is. The chorus melody is good, the chorus lyrics are good. But generally she’s a very awkward songwriter and singer, and not much of a musician.

“You’ve got me seriously thinkin’ about spirituality…”

She had her moment, most don't Be grateful for it. Stop jumping on the latest bandwagon to try & rekindle an old flame.

Everybody gets raped but me

They aren't pedophiles but those men are creeps. Glad to see men finally getting called out for this behavior.

Adults should know better than to outside 15 year olds. If nobody was hurt good but it’s still creepy and not something that should happen.

A bold stance, R122

When did she become fat?

She's not fat. She just looks like a middle aged woman with some flesh on her. Flesh and issues.

R124, she's been eating a lot of Indian food.

R116, again, when you have to get into semantic arguments about an adult having sex with a MINOR and split hairs between a child with pubic hair or a child without pubic hair… sugar, you’ve already lost the argument.

“lost the argument”, Tony? I don’t know what you think I was arguing for or against, except that words have meanings. Pedophilia by definition is sexual attraction to children who have not reached puberty. It’s as simple as that. I’m not pro-pedophilia or pro-statutory rape. I’m pro-literacy.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ! suddenly everyones an etymology professor.

It's called ephebophilia. Its only a semantic difference, its just as fucked up as pedophillia, just as illegal and It's the same type of paraphilia.

Do you think using the "Well Actually" argument around the terminology of fucking kids makes you look clever? If anyone is fucking a kid of 15 they have more problems than which category of pervert they fall into.

Fuck the lot of you.

Lying little tramp...she hopped on them as quick as instant pudding cuz she loved the ride, and now claims rape ???? I think not

R128, okay. I give up. I’m wrong.

I admit you weren’t arguing. You were simply insisting on accuracy. Understood.

I will counsel you on one point. Don’t insist on this particular semantic accuracy in the real world, where people know your name, and live in community with you. They will think you are a creep, won’t invite you to parties, and won’t include you in neighborhood emails. Neither will they allow their children to trick-or-treat and solicit you for school fund-raising drives.

Come to think of it, everyone in your neighborhood thinking you are a PEDO... I mean, EPHEBOPHILE might be advantageous.

Fuck off, Tony. I don’t give a fuck what you or anyone thinks. 20 years ago everyone knew what a pedophile was and wasn’t, and no one ever referred to statutory rape as “pedophilia”. Fuck’s sake, my grandmother got pregnant when she was 16 and my grandfather was 18–was my grandfather a “pedophile” or even an ephebophile?

The rest of your reply is so retarded I won’t even respond to it.

Blocking you and R129 now, so don’t bother responding to me directly, I’ll never see you again. If you can’t handle hearing the correct definitions of words without twisting yourself into a moral panic, you should stay off the Internet and the real world, too.

Was a teen when jagged little pill blew up. Still don’t get her popularity, I truly cannot stand the sound of her voice and her mannerisms when she performs make me cringe.

Makes you wonder if that’s why she sounded so angry.

R133, literally NO ONE is talking about your 16-year-old grandmother copulating with an 18-year-old. Not AM, not me, nor anyone in this thread has said a single ticking word about similarly aged-persons having consensual sex.

This is IN NO WAY WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. I don’t care if your grandmother boned by every single SIMILARLY AGED dick in whatever country crossroads or pig path she hails from.

This whole conversation is about significantly older people fucking much, much younger people.

Leave your whore grandmother out of all of this. It make you seem less of a piece of trash.

This thread is the reason I drink!

Drinking while reading the comments does help alot Right now its very good Polish Vodka iwith lemon-lime It's my "delta covid vaccine medicine".

When I see Billie Eilish I always think that she's going to be the Alanis of her generation. One huge album and a defining image, before it all peters out until enough time has passed for her to be seen as interesting again.

I hope Eilish will have some peace & not be so striving when almost 50 years old. So, tiring to be that age is still such an attention whore. To have $, a family, a marriage & still soo hollow needing even more attention.

I’m a little confused by the context, is she saying there were a group of men who pulled a train on her at one time when she was 15, or was it individually at different times? And was it still a thing like she was handed around by them like a pedophile ring situation?

No sense crying over past regrets...

You Live, You Learn.

She has so pivoted away from when she was cool & intersting.

Remember when she played God n Dogma?

I'm glad someone brought up Billie Eilish. Does anyone else think that her brother wrote that song about himself ("I'm a bad guy...") but maybe Billie sings better? Has this ever been discussed?

R145 the rumours about Billie's "relationship" with her brother aren't new. But i hope they aren't true.

Isn’t Billie Eilish in a relationship with a much older man?

Billie Eilish oughta know.

Alanis sounds like a puta

[quote] It's called ephebophilia. Its only a semantic difference, its just as fucked up as pedophillia, just as illegal and It's the same type of paraphilia.

No, again you are completely wrong. You do not understand the psychology or the law.

These are very different things.

Psychology recognizes the differences and they very different. Arguably ephebophilia is not a paraphilia. It is a normal attraction to someone who is physically identical or near identical to an adult. Legal age of consent also encompasses those ages in many places and historically allowed marriage. Ephebophilia is not considered a psychiatric disorder - it is a legal proscription.

Pedophiles are a very different breed in their obsession and often their behavior. If they are violent as part of that obsession then that will almost always repeat itself if the offender is released. There are few crimes where I think the nature of the crime, the harm involved and the likelihood of reoffending is so great that I do believe serious consideration should be given to life sentences and if released then life long strict monitoring/control.

The law today in most places has been reformed to categorize below the age of consent sexual offenses by degrees as well as exempt those within a certain age difference of each other.

YOUR obsession with refusing to see the very real differences in the attraction and the very real differences in the potential for harm and the likelihood of recovery for the "victim" is about YOU. YOU have some personal issue with the reality of these things to the extent you need to make them all one rather than understand their realities.

r150 ^ Found the pervert

Imagine just for a moment all the good she could have achieved for young people who have been & are currently being sexually exploited if she wasn't such a pathetic professional victim & attention whore. I was such a fan. I'm working hard to cling to my first memories of her early work. I hope this can block out how she is morphing into Rose McGowan.

This thread is disgusting. Women-blaming again.

She was 15. FIFTEEN. You can't give consent at 15.

If you're a 30-year-old man having sex with a 15-year-old, you're fucking sick. If you're on here defending it, you're sick too. You're no better than R. Kelly.

The age of consent is a bit like the number of rat hairs you're legally allowed to put into a hotdog. If you need to look it up you're probably doing something shady that you shouldn't be doing.

I have a college friend who worked as a waitress and had a flirty thing going with the owner of the restaurant when she was 17. He affectionately referred to her as “Jailbait” and despite her attempts he would not have a physical relationship with her until she turned 18. In fact he was boning her later that summer when his wife went into labor and couldn’t reach him.

It wasn't rape rape.

At 15, it's Lolita rape. You know you have the power, even as an average looking girl.

She liked the power, but now likes the press of being a victim.

Didn't she scream and shout about all this shit in that huge album? It was really good but I always assumed her crazy bitch anger came from her being "abused" or "assaulted" by men like Ro McGowan who just seems like she gets sexually assaulted if she leaves the house to buy groceries.

AM looks like the love child of Kelly Clarkson & Kathy Valentine (of the Go-Go's).

Adults who are knowingly having sex with people who are underage are always wrong. Male or female. This isn’t tough to figure out.

r156

Lolita is literally a book about a middle aged man who rapes an 11 year old.

I just listened to 6 or 7 of the songs on JLP today. I was inspired by this thread. They’re pablum. How could anyone have ever thought she was “Alternative”? Also, her singing is much, much higher than I remembered it being.

The music is middle-of-the-road guitar-based pop, not very different from Melissa Etheridge or Sheryl Crow, with arrangement/production affectations that date them squarely in the mid-90s. Those vaguely “trip-hop” drum loops. Ugh.

The song “You Learn” seems to be about nothing at all. What is she saying on the second pre-chorus? “The noxion knocks you from the lip.”

I agree r161 but I will always love Alanis for this:

R162 I don’t get it, it seems like some kind of parody?

[quote] Who were these older guys?

Randos she met in the parking lot of the local 7-11, most likely.

She was a flash in the pan. Her first album sold 15M here. By her third, it only moved a million units. Her 2012 album sold 92k units and 100k in Germany. Her last album sold 20k units.

I've always called her All-Anus. She blows.

I don’t understand how Jagged Little Pill sold as much as it did. Why were those singles so popular? She was a 21-year-old child making unremarkable mainstream music.

Never mind, guess I answered my own question.

LOVE her but honestly still mad about that "Isn't it Ironic" song after all these years. Most of the lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with irony. Just bad luck!

[quote] I don’t understand how Jagged Little Pill sold as much as it did.

Marketing. You get your client on every show and all over the media and get their music played all over and that goes a long way.

Same thing with selling a book and making it a "best seller".

The old trick of tell them they want it and they will want it.

Why do you love her, R167?

She ahd no staying power as an artist poster above recorded how poorly her work sold. Smoke & mirrors. Now hopping the #MeToo bus. Too late girl is peaked a while ago.

Right, and isn’t it the case that the success of JLP largely came from Glen Ballard’s songwriting, arrangements, and producing? I got the impression that after that album, she struck out on her own a bit more… with less broadly ‘appealing’ results. But maybe not.

All I know is, she didn’t play an instrument on JLP except for, I believe, a bit of harmonica here and there.

Those Canada girls were really going strong and dominating the charts for a solid block of time, and then they weren’t. What happened, did the US music industry establish and embargo that undermined their influence?

I think the music scene changed, plus I think all of those artists - Alanis, Celine, Sarah and Shania were all overexposed by the end of the '90s r172.

Sarah's Surfacing and Shania's Come on Over albums were both released in 1997 and their campaigns went on for years. They were always on the radio. I think their follow-ups just tried to repeat the patterns the previous albums set, but people just weren't as interested.

Celine took a few years off before re-establishing herself as a Vegas performer and it proved profitable for her because when she returned in the early 2000s, radio just wasn't as interested in her as they were in the '90s.

Alanis was never going to top JLP. Her follow-up is a fan favorite and sold decently but compared to JLP, it underperformed. Though Unforgiven was a huge hit and Thank U did well as a follow-up, I thought for sure she was going to have longevity as a hit maker but it never happened.

So many outraged fraus in this thread.

[quote] Those Canada girls were really going strong and dominating the charts for a solid block of time,

Ooohhh she's Canadian. They're all sluts. Something to do with the maple syrup.

Anytime some has something to sell, out comes a half-baked story of abuse in which no names are named. It's pretty fucking tedious and really does lessen the impact of a serious problem.

R176 She reminds me of Gaga

It kind of makes me laugh imaging some random guys in the 711 parking lot running a train on her

Univited is her very best song. But she was never going to top Jagged Little Pill. Right time and and right place phenomenon. It stuck a chord with young women and young men alike. I was always surprised how many straight Gen X bros owned the album.

I don’t think that’s exactly what she says happened, R178, but now that you’ve mentioned it, I’m chortling myself.

She connected with a lot of basic bitches. If Tori Amos' lyrics were too artsy for you, Alanis was your girl. I'm angry. You didn't call me back after I sucked you off. You're dating a prettier version of me. I hate you. I'm still thinking of you years after our one hookup. Lots of women are seriously stalker crazy