Alanis Morissette Says Multiple Men Had Sex With Her When She Was Just 15

'SO DID i"?? types Phillywhore. No one cares Alanis about your "stretched-out cummy dirty parts", you FISH

I knew more than a few girls who were sexually active at age 15. And a couple of them were very happy to sleep with older men, who were less immature, had cars, money, etc.

The idea that these girls were victims makes me laugh, it really does. Victim culture reminds me a lot of the whole “born again” con.

Sure, Jan.

[quote]The idea that these girls were victims makes me laugh, it really does.

You are an idiot.

I’m tired of people having accusations without naming people. How are you truly helping other victims if you allow your abuser to unpunished. Said abuser could be out there doing it to someone today. It’s an attention ploy unless you give names

Alanis is an "attention-whore" who needs a career boost. Now ahe going the "Madonna, gagda, McGowan raped out hag route" No one cares....BTW, ur dirty pussy still stinks like men& cum.

Hands Clean

If that’s all you’ve got, R4, we’ll consider that a concession.

Bootsy gumdrop is one of the most vile trolls here, why hasn't it been redtagged and banned yet?

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F&F pedophile apologist R2.

But, was Dave Coulier one of them? Did he "OUGHTA KNOW?"

Ugly Anscher or DeFatTurd, r9/r11?

Come on, take the anon mask off.

R4 No. You're just oblique. R2 is seeing clearly.

[quote]Alanis is an "attention-whore" who needs a career boost.

Then why is she not even going to the premiere of a documentary about her?

[quote]we’ll consider that a concession.

That you think you "consider" anything is adorable.

R9 why? I only see speaking truth. R8 Bravo!

Lucky bitch!

Alanis has really packed on the pounds.

It depends on the individual: i’ve known people who could handle it at 15 and people who couldn’t handle it at 35.

I’m glad that all the above posters have had friends who had no problems in the decades and decades since they were 15. It’s a tale one always hears from the ‘friends’ of people when these stories are told, especially from people in their fifties and above.

I, on the other hand, had a sexual relationship with a 35 year-old married minister starting when I was 14 which effected me is ways I wasn’t even aware of until I was 35 myself.

It has made me distrustful of people I love, ruined my relationship with my remaining family, and was the root cause of several years of such heavy substance abuse I ended up homeless. After ten years and somewhere around $100,000 in out-of-pocket psychiatry bills, I am aware of the ways it has changed me for the worse.

I’m happy for all of you who took part in, or were aware of, so many cases of statutory rape that had happy endings but there are others of us who decidedly did not share that experience.

To the argument that it’s all moot if you don’t name names, naming the man that preyed on me would not only ruin my life but, by proxy, the life of a few other people I know. I’m the end, I can no longer expect criminal charges to be filed nor really have any proof of it ever got that far. Excuse me for thinking the onus should first fall on institutions and law enforcement to find criminals, not victims.

And Bootsy-Gumdrop, I also think you’re an idiot, which your posting history bears out. Are you also going to accuse me of being Defacto or Matt as well because I don’t agree with you?

I wonder now if she wrote 'Hands Clean' from the perspective of these men? (otherwise she's a big hypocrite)

Someone is in desperate need of attention.

[quote] F&F pedophile apologist

Oh, dear.

People still get married at 15. Give me a break.

R26, only girls. I challenge you to cite one case in the last decade of a 15 year-old boy being married in the US. I’ll wait.

Child marriage in the US only happens when an older man gets a young teen woman pregnant. It is legal dubious to begin with as a contract which one party can’t isn’t able to break is not legal. You can’t sue for divorce until you are 18.

Of course it was, r23, she told about it at the time even if the lyrics were quite explicit. No one much cared.

By riding a subway naked, wasn't she clearly asking for it?

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

r28 Ah fair enough, I didn't know (I was a just a kid back then)

The article at r30 points out that 87% of children who marry are under the age of 18, so that means 13% of boys are affected as well. The article tells of an 11 year old boy who got married.

Another interesting statistic: those who marry under the age of 18 have higher rates of poverty and divorce later in life compared to those who marry after the age of 18.

^ sorry, are girls under the age of 18

I worked with a gay guy once and over heard him telling someone else that he was frequenting gay bars looking before he was ever legal to do so. He said his most heard pick up line was "Can I buy you a glass of MILK!" Haha

^^^looooong before he was ever legal to do so

Nobody wants me when im 15.

None of those figures that I could see say that any of those boys who were married under the age of 18 married an adult, which is the topic being discussed in this thread.

I also went to high school with girls who dated older guys. These were fast LA girls though who saw boys their own age as pimply and immature, and this was in the '90s, so it was a different time, I guess. Not condoning it, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of posters knew [italic]that[/italic] girl (or guy) in HS.

Once again in English, r16?

I grew up in an affluent NYC suburbs and most kids were having sex by 15 or 16. In middle school two 13 year olds were caught fucking by the girl’s mom and she was sent to Catholic school. A 15 year old sophomore with a senior boyfriend got knocked up and they got married (still married!) By junior or senior year many of the girls had older boyfriends who were out of school. My own sister had a crush on a 20-something year old guy when she was 15 and totally threw herself at him with every intention of banging him. The 80s weren’t nearly as repressed as today. It was accepted that kids were going to fuck.

A whore wants to play the victim game. NOBODY CARES

R29, isn't it ironic?

Don'tcha think?

[quote] Alanis Morissette had sex with multiple men when she was Just 15

She's not a slut. She is The Slut!

R40, that was my experience, too. I was fucking when I was 15. I wanted to do it, and my partners were other kids my age. It was kind of thrilling and it didn’t traumatize me, although I did have some negative experiences. It’s part of life, and I wanted to experience life. Not every sexual encounter is a deep and loving soul-mingle.

I don’t know what Alanis’s experiences were, but she’s entitled to her opinion. It’s not correct to assume that every 15-year old girl is incapable of wanting and consenting to sex with a person her own age. (Older people should keep their distance, IMO.)

what else can you expect from a lost continent.

Alanis rips the documentary and its director.

Some 15 year old girls are not ready, still virginal, sheltered. Some are ready to goooo.

I think it is the power/age difference that can be destructive for the teen girl or boy, if they are hooking up with a 30 something or older guy.

Loved some of her tunes from Jagged at the time. Recently listened again. Was surprised how Not so good much of it was. It seemed so awesomely radical at the time. Also, she too is for me an artist who needed videos. The music didn't work so well just on its own. Many of that time are the same.

Shocked at how big she is. She shared about her food issues early in her fame & was supportive to groups for people with eating disorders. Seems like she collapsed into her ED. Maybe being, active, in the food,again may be fueling her & not in a good way. For some afflicted with actual psychiatric ED(not just occasional overeating) it is mind, mood, behavior altering.

Alanis was a teenager in the entertainment industry. I'm sure she was preyed upon heavily by creepy older man--it's endemic in that field.

As a 41 year old college professor, I could not imagine sleeping with ANY of my students. They're barely above being kids in their mentalities, and nowhere near mature enough to consider dating.

I always side-eye those with very age-discordant relationships, especially if the younger partner is under 21/22. The older partner needs a psychiatrist more than they do a relationship.

Who were these older guys? College boys? Hot local musicians? Teachers at her high school, or her friends' fathers? Entertainment company executives who told her she'd never have a career in music if she didn't fuck her way up?

Betcha it was the last. Quid pro quo sexual harrassment is rampant in the music industry, and worse.

She just wants media attention

[R20], you're right - she has packed on the pounds. Do you know why? In the late 1990s she toured like a motherfucker. Her concerts were presentations in tearing your heart and soul out for two and half hours a night. Try eating or sleeping after that. Whether she used drugs to get her through these exhausting tours is anybody's guess. After awhile, she decided she didn't want to end up like Stevie Nicks and Janis Joplin. She said fuck this, she found a husband, she had children.

She's height weight proportionate now. And your comment just feeds into the 'women need to be thin to be attractive to the bruhs in the frat.' OP, I have some news for you from Alanis. She'd like me to tell you, "WHY DON'T YOU GROW THE FUCK UP AND START HAVING IDEAS FOR YOURSELF INSTEAD OF PUTTING *ME* DOWN! I MADE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, DONATING A GOOD SHARE OF IT TO CHARITY. AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS I PACKED ON POUNDS? I PITY YOU AND YOUR NARROW MINDED LIFE. Do the world a favour. Don't get married. And for fuck's sake DON'T REPRODUCE!"

Not sure why I’m shocked by the responses but I’m shocked by the responses. You people really are horrid. She was 15.

Like her look here. She looks normal and healthy for her age. Give her a break! Many people gain weight and look different as they grow older. But that "Isn't it Ironic" song was a beautiful clusterfunk. Love the song but it's ironic that most of the lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with irony. Just bad luck.

Don't question someone's emotional reality. If she says that she feels weird about what happened then that's how it is. It's really obnoxious when something like this happens and a bunch of people say "NO, shut up. She's not allowed to feel this way".

[quote] It has made me distrustful of people I love, ruined my relationship with my remaining family, and was the root cause of several years of such heavy substance abuse I ended up homeless.

You don’t *really* know why you have trust and got on drugs. It’s nice to have somewhere to place your blame though, isn’t it. Life is complex. Our brains are complex. Just do the best you can and don’t try to look for an explanation or a justification.

Well, that turn out to be a Jagged Little Documentary.

She had her time, her success. Accept life moves on. So does fame & being big.

A straight male interested in a mature bodied 15 year old acting and looking way older than her age is not a pedophile. Can we please stop distorting this.

if these were grown ass male studio executives in their 30s or 40w or even in their 20s then it was both illegal (I assume the age of consent was higher) and totally inappropriate.

if it was an 18, 19 or 20 year old roadie or fellow musician then I don't have a problem with that. Girls mature way earlier than boys and that means in many instances they know what they want. Can they handle it? I don't know depends on the person but I know 30 year old women who aren't mature enough to handle a relationship.

Hey if Britney can handle a relationship then a sane 15 year old is probably a better if poorer bet.

Great way to justify statutory rape r60. Thanks for sharing.

[quote] I, on the other hand, had a sexual relationship with a 35 year-old married minister starting when I was 14 which effected me is ways I wasn’t even aware of until I was 35 myself.

You are making the assumption that it was the fact that you were 15 and had a sexual relationship and that is what caused all the issues you list.

How about the fact he was a minister or married or 20 years older?

Why do you presume that it was your age rather than some other psychological reason you already had?

I suspect that there was an underlying psychiatric/psychological issue that resulted in the litany of very sad experiences you had. Not simply that you at 15 had sex.

I hope you are successfully dealing with your issue.

Yeah, the life of a superstar singer is not for everyone. Performing as much as she did? All that non stop touring, television, movies, AND motherhood?!! Alanis, I don't know how you did it!

I'm guessing that the men Alanis had sex with were not teenagers, either. I listened to her music a lot when it came out. She was open about her eating disorder.

I think that, at this point, people should probably start naming names.

It is obvious from her previous and current comments this were not high school kids fucking when he is a couple of years older, but much older men from the music industry. Read the lyrics from Hands Clean. Which, inthe same album, is followed by a music called Flinch.

If there is someone who should not cause surprise on the subject is her who, unlike others, raised and told the issue 15 years ago when it was not the thing to do it.

Whatever happened, she turned lemons in to lemonade. Without those experiences the songs of Jagged Little Pill would never have been that angry and that vibrant and connected to so many people. At least she took her pain and grief and made something out of it, and as the saying goes success is the best revenge.

R60, I have to tell you that when people open their arguments with semantic points, it’s generally because they have a weak argument. Since you are such a fan of precise definitions then I would ask you to define inappropriate. I always thought it pertained to situations like wearing shorts to court, not a 40-year-old having sex with a 15-year-old.

R62, are you being purposefully obtuse? Of course I’m not arguing that simply being 14 is what caused my trauma. No where do I say, nor has anyone else on this thread including AM said, that 15-year-olds are harmed by having sex with people their own age. It sounds like if I had not mentioned that my abuser was married and a minister then you wouldn’t have any problems with it.

To all who question how I know that my subsequent mental health problems were caused by this experience, I’ll refer you to the mental health professionals that have treated me. The consensus is that this relationship started a cascade of connected events and decisions and it is borne out by the fact that I did not have to attend rehab to stop abusing drugs and don’t have to take any psychoactive medication to get through life.

"You Oughta Know" is supposed to be about a much older man. I have to say that the lyrics don't reflect anger about an age difference (i.e., don't reflect being taken advantage of by a much-older person). Yes, the anger is clearly expressed, but it's not apparent there was an age difference.

Would be interesting to hear Alanis talk about the song, they lyrics, etc.

^Isn't "You Oughta Know" about Dave Coulier?

She should blame her parents as well.

R67 I'm sorry you went through that tony and appreciate you sharing that, knowing the risk of shitty responses. Know there are people here that aren't that way and do understand because they've went through similar experiences.

R60 ah yes, the old "girls mature sooner" deflection, that's been used to justify adult men fucking little girls since the dawn of time. I love the extra hypocrisy at the end though, where you say there's 30 yr old women that aren't mature enough to handle sex.

There's nothing to indicate female brains mature faster. All teens lack development of the part of the brain responsible for making choices. Nor does it matter if a teen "wants it". It's not on them to decide, it's on the damn adult to know better and not be a selfish pig. No adult men are being held at gun point, being told they have to fuck a teenager.

R62 just stop. There's plently off research to look at that goes into why that would be damaging. It's a person of authority abusing the relationship and power dynamics. It's also their experience so I'd think they'd have more insight into why they struggled than you, a random person on the internet. So many users go on and on about how shitty people are to each other but don't look in the mirror.

r59 this has zero to do with her fame. She's a multimillionaire with more money than you. I doubt she sits around weeping that it's no longer 1996. Someone check r60s browser history.

What’s worse, an 18 year old high school student willingly fucking a 30-something year old teacher or 30-something year old who picks up a young lovely in a bar, completely down to fuck, but turned out to be a 15 year old who used fake ID to get into the bar?

R68, the man in the song was Dave Coulier (from Full House).

Thanks, R75. Coulier is now 61, Morissette is now 47. So, that's a 14-year age difference. Would be interesting to find out how she would characterize the relationship, now.

Did she have to pay the men?

She has always denied it was Coulier. He's the one who claims it is..what a douche.

[quote] if I had not mentioned that my abuser was married and a minister then you wouldn’t have any problems with it.

Of course that makes a difference. How can you not see that?

If it had been the minister's 18 year old son there wouldn't be a problem unless you were too emotional immature or psychologically damaged to handle it. Even then it wouldn't - on its own - create psychiatric issues.

I just came back from the TIFF premiere of Jagged, the documentary about the phenomenon of the album Jagged Little Pill.

It's a fucking brilliant documentary and I'm really sad that Alanis is not supporting it. She should because she comes across as incredibly intelligent, witty, likable, and insightful.

I have a feeling Alanis is more worried about legal repercussions than anything, although she doesn't name names. And she probably doesn't like the fact that she didn't have final cut.

But I think the director did an excellent job.

Any other Alanis fans here?

I think JLP, while definitely good, is actually her least really good album.

Maybe I just have JLP fatigue but I love her newer work and still think SFIJ is probably her best overall effort.

She was a just a typical teenage slut that enjoyed using men for their money and power. Very common in the 1980's in Canada when the age of consent was only 14. As a closeted gayling the same age as her at the same time period in the same city, I can confirm teenage girls then and there were EXTREMELY promiscuous and bragged about it. As an adult woman, now she blames the men who made her wealthy and famous for her own calculated choices. Another example why I dislike feminists and feel sorry for straight men having to deal with women.

R81, Alanis Morissette fan here.

"That I Would Be Good" is one of my faves. "You Oughta Know," of course.

Another favorite song by Alanis: Joining You, esp. this live Unplugged version.

Women really want to be coddled badly. This infantilism has to stop already. Take some responsibility, stop being a professional victim. Jesus Christ.

[quote] I have a feeling Alanis is more worried about legal repercussions than anything, although she doesn't name names. And she probably doesn't like the fact that she didn't have final cut.

What exactly is in it that’s damaging to her? Why does she care?

[quote]if it was an 18, 19 or 20 year old roadie or fellow musician then I don't have a problem with that.

Well, thank GOD, you're okay with it, R60. Whew! Now teenage girls everywhere can breathe a sigh of relief.

R67, if your mental health professionals have cost you 100,000 dollars you can assume they do n’t have your best interests at heart. They are causing you more damage than the minister.

Who is that who attacked in Alanis’ name? Are you just a fan hunny? You don’t know this queen, don’t lie.

I’m appalled by some - no, many - of the comments here. Tony Woodward in his comments speaks not just of his own experience, but for many others.

I KNEW she was a whore back then!

At my junior high, two girls aged 14 were dating two guys aged 28. The guys would come after school and pick them up. When the guys arrived, the girls would make a lot noise so their classmates could see how cool they were to be dating older men.

Both girls were very developed, party girls, from broken homes, we’re well-liked and knew what they were doing. I said to one of them that I wished I could be like her (I was shy and “proper”) and she replied with ‘you don’t want to be like me.’ They both turned out fine in the long run.

I had sex at 15 after being pressured by my boyfriend repeatedly. I absolutely was not emotionally ready for it and it was a horrible experience that still haunts me when I think about it, him, and what he did to me. I didn’t have sex again until I was 18. I was ready and willing at that point.

But she’s perverted and went down on him in a theatre. Admittedly.

There seems to be two schools of thought now running at the same time. Women are constantly told to be sex positive, open to porn, bisexuality, no commitment sex, "fucking like a man" and to be quick and casual about any physical relationships. Almost all TV roles are like this. TV women fall into bed at the drop of a hat and it's only prudes and religious maniacs that maybe want to wait even just a little while. Then on the other hand, there is this almost Victorian perspective that practically all men are out to harm and rape women and to be wary of ANY male attention because THEY ONLY WANT ONE THING!!!

Not sure what this has to do with Alanis but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

I'm sad that Alanis is horrified at the new documentary and doesn't want to support it - I love her and was looking forward to seeing it, but after seeing her comments I'll avoid it. I have huge respect for her as an artist and as a person.

Tune I loved the most Thank U. Very inspiring, including the video. A journey of evolution to being able to connect to the light of love. This latest Media drop on her 32 year old sexual Herstory ala #MeToo(she's 47now, 15 then)seems like she has moved backwards from the tenor & beauty of Thank U.

Hope she can find peace & healing & reach for the light again

R88, you have absolutely no idea about the quality or intentions of the medical professionals I’ve dealt with. While it might be acceptable for you to visit a non-licensed counselor to save money, I didn’t think the sole fact that someone could afford to rent an office and have business cards printed enough reason to trust my mental health to them.

R23 I thought Hands Clean was supposed to be about Glen Ballard. She apparently met him after she graduated high school, so she was of age, though he was nearly 20 years older.

Man does she look old, she's just missing the short pixie cut hairstyle and she's full blown soccer mom.

R97, get a second opinion-£100,000 for therapy is obscene, I’m genuinely concerned for you

Sad she still hasn't figured out that lots & lots of men, especially those who troll the waters for young youngen's are absolute dogs. Didn't anyone clue her in on this. Learned this shit on my mother's knee. Whenever an older dude is pursuing youngens' he's a creep. Nothing shocking, nothing new. Ah, for the good old days when Daddy or big brother met perspective beaus of girls with a shot gun casually under their arm. When communities were tight & your old girl neighbor would hit that old creep w. her umbrella if he even dared to talk to you. Then she'd drag you for a coffee & tell you how life rolled.

I wonder if she is looking back on her adolescence and teen sexuality from a mother’s lens now that she has children. It’s a parent”s responsibility to know where their 15 year old is and to ensure they have adult supervision against “predators.” I wonder if she blames her parents for not “protecting” her from the predatory environment she grew up in.

Even a 17 year old today is considered a child (even though it's the age of consent in most states) and men who have sex with 17 year old are called pedophiles (Prince Andrew.)

We're in a weird world where women can be extremely sexual but men have to be very careful about being sexually aggressive in any way. Even commenting on a woman's appearance can cost a man his job but women in NYC now wear bikini bras as tops in the street and that's perfectly fine.

She is right, no men past their early twenties should ever fee attracted to teenagers, it IS a crime, however that doesn't mean she didn't want it,she has to own her mistake, tough her mistake would NEVER justify their pedophilia. Gross men!

When I read the article I was expecting her to be a hypocrite like so many on here implied, but she said herself that it took her a while to even accept that at 15, she wasn't really old enough to consent.

I don't have any issues in my past with consenting at too early of an age, but as an adult I look back on a whole lot of situations at home and in school where adults were not behaving appropriately and kids were being expected to deal with things they shouldn't have been, like assigning a kid in grade school to "monitor" another kid with a behavioral disorder, or kids who had to manage their parents' behavior or addictions, things like that. For the things I was personally involved with I was well into my 30s before I realized how abusive some of it was, so I can understand where she's coming from.

It's kind of difficult for me to understand someone who is an adult looking back on a 15yo girl they went to school with who was sleeping with men approaching 30 and thinking "she knew what she was doing, it was consensual, this is all b.s."

[quote]“I would always say I was consenting, and then I’d be reminded like ‘Hey, you were 15, you’re not consenting at 15.’

Translation she consented and now has second thoughts. She feels bad she was a whore at 15 and now is playing the victim card instead of taking responsibility for her poor choices.

Age is arbitrary if they set the legal age at 15 she would legally be consenting and would she have the same game plan? No, no way out would be offered.

Until she owns up and accepts responsibility for whatever she did, she will be a miserable person, who hasn't had a hit since 1995.

R100, I didn’t spend £100,000 on therapy, I spent £72,000.

Since you seem to be from the UK and thus have no real idea of the costs of healthcare in the United States, widely known as the most expensive place in the world for health care covered by insurance or not, I’m genuinely concerned that you sound like a fool.

Usually psychiatrist’s rates in NYC can be between $300-$500 a session with no insurance accepted.

Does anyone even wonder why the Full House guy is involved in this? Was he considered hot? I always thought he was creepy.

Ugh. I hate this babying of women. She's allowed to regret these encounters, or be upset about them, but call them rape? Come on......

[italic]The Daily Beast[/italic] has posted an article about this from the perspective of celebrities wanting final approval of how they're portrayed in third-party documentaries. Alanis, gurl, unless you're making your own documentary, that's not how it works.

R26 = classic pedophile defense.

Not even sure where you're seeing 15 year olds marrying without raising eyebrows. As others noted, these marriages always feature child brides but never child grooms. Only a handful of cultures still allow this and they're never very developed cultures. Like, we're looking to the Taliban and Romani cultures now for justifying sex with minors? Oh okay.

Some real sick fucks post here. Like how the fuck can you claim child marriage is normal??? Da fuq???

R110 a fifteen year old is not a woman you fucking freakshow.

How many 15 year old boys are married off to 30-year-old women?

Ewwww like R Kelly? I kinda suspect gross Dave Cloutier since You Oughta Know is about him.

[quote] A straight male interested in a mature bodied 15 year old acting and looking way older than her age is not a pedophile. Can we please stop distorting this.

That’s my only problem with her story. Yes, guys who want to fuck 15-year-olds (girls or boys) are pathetic and depending on local laws, committing statutory rape. But that is not PEDOPHILIA unless the 15-year-old somehow still had the body of an 8-year-old or something.

“No one knows except the both of us…”

“Hands Clean” is one of the few songs of hers that I think is actually pretty okay for what it is. The chorus melody is good, the chorus lyrics are good. But generally she’s a very awkward songwriter and singer, and not much of a musician.

“You’ve got me seriously thinkin’ about spirituality…”

She had her moment, most don't Be grateful for it. Stop jumping on the latest bandwagon to try & rekindle an old flame.

Everybody gets raped but me

They aren't pedophiles but those men are creeps. Glad to see men finally getting called out for this behavior.

Adults should know better than to outside 15 year olds. If nobody was hurt good but it’s still creepy and not something that should happen.

A bold stance, R122

When did she become fat?

She's not fat. She just looks like a middle aged woman with some flesh on her. Flesh and issues.

R124, she's been eating a lot of Indian food.

R116, again, when you have to get into semantic arguments about an adult having sex with a MINOR and split hairs between a child with pubic hair or a child without pubic hair… sugar, you’ve already lost the argument.

“lost the argument”, Tony? I don’t know what you think I was arguing for or against, except that words have meanings. Pedophilia by definition is sexual attraction to children who have not reached puberty. It’s as simple as that. I’m not pro-pedophilia or pro-statutory rape. I’m pro-literacy.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ! suddenly everyones an etymology professor.

It's called ephebophilia. Its only a semantic difference, its just as fucked up as pedophillia, just as illegal and It's the same type of paraphilia.

Do you think using the "Well Actually" argument around the terminology of fucking kids makes you look clever? If anyone is fucking a kid of 15 they have more problems than which category of pervert they fall into.

Fuck the lot of you.

Lying little tramp...she hopped on them as quick as instant pudding cuz she loved the ride, and now claims rape ???? I think not

R128, okay. I give up. I’m wrong.

I admit you weren’t arguing. You were simply insisting on accuracy. Understood.

I will counsel you on one point. Don’t insist on this particular semantic accuracy in the real world, where people know your name, and live in community with you. They will think you are a creep, won’t invite you to parties, and won’t include you in neighborhood emails. Neither will they allow their children to trick-or-treat and solicit you for school fund-raising drives.

Come to think of it, everyone in your neighborhood thinking you are a PEDO... I mean, EPHEBOPHILE might be advantageous.

Fuck off, Tony. I don’t give a fuck what you or anyone thinks. 20 years ago everyone knew what a pedophile was and wasn’t, and no one ever referred to statutory rape as “pedophilia”. Fuck’s sake, my grandmother got pregnant when she was 16 and my grandfather was 18–was my grandfather a “pedophile” or even an ephebophile?

The rest of your reply is so retarded I won’t even respond to it.

Blocking you and R129 now, so don’t bother responding to me directly, I’ll never see you again. If you can’t handle hearing the correct definitions of words without twisting yourself into a moral panic, you should stay off the Internet and the real world, too.

Was a teen when jagged little pill blew up. Still don’t get her popularity, I truly cannot stand the sound of her voice and her mannerisms when she performs make me cringe.

Makes you wonder if that’s why she sounded so angry.

R133, literally NO ONE is talking about your 16-year-old grandmother copulating with an 18-year-old. Not AM, not me, nor anyone in this thread has said a single ticking word about similarly aged-persons having consensual sex.

This is IN NO WAY WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. I don’t care if your grandmother boned by every single SIMILARLY AGED dick in whatever country crossroads or pig path she hails from.

This whole conversation is about significantly older people fucking much, much younger people.

Leave your whore grandmother out of all of this. It make you seem less of a piece of trash.

This thread is the reason I drink!

Drinking while reading the comments does help alot Right now its very good Polish Vodka iwith lemon-lime It's my "delta covid vaccine medicine".

When I see Billie Eilish I always think that she's going to be the Alanis of her generation. One huge album and a defining image, before it all peters out until enough time has passed for her to be seen as interesting again.

I hope Eilish will have some peace & not be so striving when almost 50 years old. So, tiring to be that age is still such an attention whore. To have $, a family, a marriage & still soo hollow needing even more attention.

I’m a little confused by the context, is she saying there were a group of men who pulled a train on her at one time when she was 15, or was it individually at different times? And was it still a thing like she was handed around by them like a pedophile ring situation?

No sense crying over past regrets...

You Live, You Learn.

She has so pivoted away from when she was cool & intersting.

Remember when she played God n Dogma?

I'm glad someone brought up Billie Eilish. Does anyone else think that her brother wrote that song about himself ("I'm a bad guy...") but maybe Billie sings better? Has this ever been discussed?

R145 the rumours about Billie's "relationship" with her brother aren't new. But i hope they aren't true.

Isn’t Billie Eilish in a relationship with a much older man?

Billie Eilish oughta know.

Alanis sounds like a puta

[quote] It's called ephebophilia. Its only a semantic difference, its just as fucked up as pedophillia, just as illegal and It's the same type of paraphilia.

No, again you are completely wrong. You do not understand the psychology or the law.

These are very different things.

Psychology recognizes the differences and they very different. Arguably ephebophilia is not a paraphilia. It is a normal attraction to someone who is physically identical or near identical to an adult. Legal age of consent also encompasses those ages in many places and historically allowed marriage. Ephebophilia is not considered a psychiatric disorder - it is a legal proscription.

Pedophiles are a very different breed in their obsession and often their behavior. If they are violent as part of that obsession then that will almost always repeat itself if the offender is released. There are few crimes where I think the nature of the crime, the harm involved and the likelihood of reoffending is so great that I do believe serious consideration should be given to life sentences and if released then life long strict monitoring/control.

The law today in most places has been reformed to categorize below the age of consent sexual offenses by degrees as well as exempt those within a certain age difference of each other.

YOUR obsession with refusing to see the very real differences in the attraction and the very real differences in the potential for harm and the likelihood of recovery for the "victim" is about YOU. YOU have some personal issue with the reality of these things to the extent you need to make them all one rather than understand their realities.

r150 ^ Found the pervert

Imagine just for a moment all the good she could have achieved for young people who have been & are currently being sexually exploited if she wasn't such a pathetic professional victim & attention whore. I was such a fan. I'm working hard to cling to my first memories of her early work. I hope this can block out how she is morphing into Rose McGowan.

This thread is disgusting. Women-blaming again.

She was 15. FIFTEEN. You can't give consent at 15.

If you're a 30-year-old man having sex with a 15-year-old, you're fucking sick. If you're on here defending it, you're sick too. You're no better than R. Kelly.

The age of consent is a bit like the number of rat hairs you're legally allowed to put into a hotdog. If you need to look it up you're probably doing something shady that you shouldn't be doing.

I have a college friend who worked as a waitress and had a flirty thing going with the owner of the restaurant when she was 17. He affectionately referred to her as “Jailbait” and despite her attempts he would not have a physical relationship with her until she turned 18. In fact he was boning her later that summer when his wife went into labor and couldn’t reach him.

It wasn't rape rape.

At 15, it's Lolita rape. You know you have the power, even as an average looking girl.

She liked the power, but now likes the press of being a victim.

Didn't she scream and shout about all this shit in that huge album? It was really good but I always assumed her crazy bitch anger came from her being "abused" or "assaulted" by men like Ro McGowan who just seems like she gets sexually assaulted if she leaves the house to buy groceries.

AM looks like the love child of Kelly Clarkson & Kathy Valentine (of the Go-Go's).

Adults who are knowingly having sex with people who are underage are always wrong. Male or female. This isn’t tough to figure out.

r156

Lolita is literally a book about a middle aged man who rapes an 11 year old.

I just listened to 6 or 7 of the songs on JLP today. I was inspired by this thread. They’re pablum. How could anyone have ever thought she was “Alternative”? Also, her singing is much, much higher than I remembered it being.

The music is middle-of-the-road guitar-based pop, not very different from Melissa Etheridge or Sheryl Crow, with arrangement/production affectations that date them squarely in the mid-90s. Those vaguely “trip-hop” drum loops. Ugh.

The song “You Learn” seems to be about nothing at all. What is she saying on the second pre-chorus? “The noxion knocks you from the lip.”

I agree r161 but I will always love Alanis for this:

R162 I don’t get it, it seems like some kind of parody?

[quote] Who were these older guys?

Randos she met in the parking lot of the local 7-11, most likely.

She was a flash in the pan. Her first album sold 15M here. By her third, it only moved a million units. Her 2012 album sold 92k units and 100k in Germany. Her last album sold 20k units.

I've always called her All-Anus. She blows.

I don’t understand how Jagged Little Pill sold as much as it did. Why were those singles so popular? She was a 21-year-old child making unremarkable mainstream music.

Never mind, guess I answered my own question.

LOVE her but honestly still mad about that "Isn't it Ironic" song after all these years. Most of the lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with irony. Just bad luck!

[quote] I don’t understand how Jagged Little Pill sold as much as it did.

Marketing. You get your client on every show and all over the media and get their music played all over and that goes a long way.

Same thing with selling a book and making it a "best seller".

The old trick of tell them they want it and they will want it.

Why do you love her, R167?

She ahd no staying power as an artist poster above recorded how poorly her work sold. Smoke & mirrors. Now hopping the #MeToo bus. Too late girl is peaked a while ago.

Right, and isn’t it the case that the success of JLP largely came from Glen Ballard’s songwriting, arrangements, and producing? I got the impression that after that album, she struck out on her own a bit more… with less broadly ‘appealing’ results. But maybe not.

All I know is, she didn’t play an instrument on JLP except for, I believe, a bit of harmonica here and there.

Those Canada girls were really going strong and dominating the charts for a solid block of time, and then they weren’t. What happened, did the US music industry establish and embargo that undermined their influence?

I think the music scene changed, plus I think all of those artists - Alanis, Celine, Sarah and Shania were all overexposed by the end of the '90s r172.

Sarah's Surfacing and Shania's Come on Over albums were both released in 1997 and their campaigns went on for years. They were always on the radio. I think their follow-ups just tried to repeat the patterns the previous albums set, but people just weren't as interested.

Celine took a few years off before re-establishing herself as a Vegas performer and it proved profitable for her because when she returned in the early 2000s, radio just wasn't as interested in her as they were in the '90s.

Alanis was never going to top JLP. Her follow-up is a fan favorite and sold decently but compared to JLP, it underperformed. Though Unforgiven was a huge hit and Thank U did well as a follow-up, I thought for sure she was going to have longevity as a hit maker but it never happened.

So many outraged fraus in this thread.

[quote] Those Canada girls were really going strong and dominating the charts for a solid block of time,

Ooohhh she's Canadian. They're all sluts. Something to do with the maple syrup.

Anytime some has something to sell, out comes a half-baked story of abuse in which no names are named. It's pretty fucking tedious and really does lessen the impact of a serious problem.

R176 She reminds me of Gaga

It kind of makes me laugh imaging some random guys in the 711 parking lot running a train on her

Univited is her very best song. But she was never going to top Jagged Little Pill. Right time and and right place phenomenon. It stuck a chord with young women and young men alike. I was always surprised how many straight Gen X bros owned the album.

I don’t think that’s exactly what she says happened, R178, but now that you’ve mentioned it, I’m chortling myself.

She connected with a lot of basic bitches. If Tori Amos' lyrics were too artsy for you, Alanis was your girl. I'm angry. You didn't call me back after I sucked you off. You're dating a prettier version of me. I hate you. I'm still thinking of you years after our one hookup. Lots of women are seriously stalker crazy

A lot of straight bros did own this record and I suspect it has something to do with the fact that those guys are attracted to those crazy bitches type. I've known so many hot straight guys over the years that will put up with so much drama and madness from a even a medium hot crazy bitch.

She's the crazy frau who still breastfeeds her kid at 5 year old or something...if my memory serves...I think it's her son who is still sucking her tits.

Where was her fucking mother? Why didn't that stupid bitch train her daughter to keep her legs closed and explain to her that she could not consent at 15?

Long before she stepped forward a thinly disguised telling of the Alanis story was broadcast on American television including a list of the abusers

Incel thread

[quote] As a 41 year old college professor, I could not imagine sleeping with ANY of my students. They're barely above being kids in their mentalities, and nowhere near mature enough to consider dating.

You're beautiful.

I thought her music sucked when JPL came out, and her subsequent output has done nothing to change that. Her lyrics are banal and her caterwauling is just unbearable. I’m sorry that she feels bad about fucking those dudes back in the day, but her tens of millions of dollars will help her get through it.

I always did wonder: did Uncle Joey do his Popeye voice when she blew him in the theater? Or maybe Bullwinkle J. Moose?

Why would anyone want to fuck Dave Coulier????

[quote] "Why would anyone want to fuck Dave Coulier????"

I never cared for "Full House", but I DID crush on Coulier when I was a gayling. And I think he looks even better now. But I love geeks & nerds, as I've previously noted.

I had a crush on Coulier when I was 9 years old watching OUT OF CONTROL on Nickelodeon.

Loved Diz, too!

When I read pedo-splaining like R150, I always feel like I need a shower afterwards.

[quote]At 15, it's Lolita rape. You know you have the power, even as an average looking girl.

This is straight up rape culture. "Lolita rape" = that 15 year old wanted it. Disgusting.

15 year olds don't have power in a relationship with an adult. You're a monster if you think they do.

The only guy I found hot on Full House was Bob Saget.

Bob Saget was the shit! He was a man among boys on that show. I liked him even more when I found out he has a dirty mouth!

Almost all of my female friends at 15 were having sex, some with older men. This is so stupid and makes women look hysterical for Miss Alanis to act like she’s a victim.

I remember when kids got married at 15. If the good Lord gave us boners at 12...what the hell?

R160, maybe he meant 'Sue Lyon' rape.

Alannis should have a chat with Kathy Valentine of the GoGo’s about having sex too early.

[quote]Almost all of my female friends at 15 were having sex, some with older men.

Yeah that's abuse, hon.

R200: obvious frau.

[quote] Where was her fucking mother? Why didn't that stupid bitch train her daughter to keep her legs closed and explain to her that she could not consent at 15?

Plenty of girls slut it up by the time they’re 15. Some start immediately after puberty. When I was that age, it seemed at least half the girls at my school (small town, early 90s) were no longer virgins by sophomore year.

What are you talking about R199? Don't be a lazy whore.

Agree r195 he’s great in Half Baked

R202 You missed my point. There's a difference between a young girl "slutting it up" and one saying she was taken advantage of by adults. She said she didn't understand that she could not give consent at 15 to these men.

Regardless of what she understood or how much she "slutted it up" for these adults, it was still statutory rape. But I wasn't even discussing that part of it.

My point was that if (AS she claims) there were some gaps in her knowledge or some responsibility in making sure this minor was protected then it should have started with her parents.

While it was 100% the responsibility of the men who took advantage of her, it sounds like she made some bad choices too which "might" have been better with some active parenting.

My grandmother would have read this thread and then said, "Those men being in the wrong doesn't put her in the right.

SHE knew the difference between right and wrong at age fifteen."

Gross apologia for predators

R206 Was your grandmother a whore in the business of human trafficking kids?

There are different laws for adults and children.

According to the law, Morissette was a minor and thus 100% in the right. PERIOD!

I guess there's no need to wonder why so many in the mainstream associate gays with pedophilia.

R30, then they talk about the Muslims

R208 When Morissette had sex with multiple men at 15 the age of consent in Canada was 14. So her claim from the interview that it was statutory rape is false. Statutory rape is a serious crime and shouldn't be misused for attention to further someone's career. In the interview she mentioned that for years she said to herself that she was consenting but only after therapy she doesn't think like that anymore. That implies she wasn't forced by any of those men to participate in intercourse. Regret doesn't equal rape and there are real victims out there who didn't have the opportunity of giving consent. She disgusts me.

R208, how do you know R206 is a gay man? On the DL, it could be anyone. Long gone are the days when only gay people came on here — it was exciting then.

Although I must say, it has improved considerably, only a year or so ago the DL was a veritable cesspit of Trumpists/tea party members and a motley crew of rabid Republicants that would make anyone's skin crawl.

R211 Anybody could be posing as anybody! No one knows for sure who ANYONE is online.

However this is a gay chat. So chances are the people posting here are gay or lesbian. Besides, there have been several very callous comments here regarding someone who was a minor. They all should read and heed.

BTW, there are still plenty of Xenophobic Republican Shit bags on DL trying to ruin the experience for everyone.

R212 are you R208?

The point I was trying to make was that this comment was not justified:

[quote] I guess there's no need to wonder why so many in the mainstream associate gays with pedophilia.

What isn’t justified are the fuck-wit comments in this thread coming for a 15 year old because

: the laws didn’t protect her :

and/or

: she should have known better on some level :

Those people can take their hurt and damaged brains and fuck off. Go seek help. You were also probably abused.

R210, Someone whom adults sexually abused when she was 15 disgusts you? Really? She disgusts you?

BTW, people are mobile. Alanis Morissette was all over the world as a child. While she grew up mostly in Canada, we don't know where she was when these men had sex with her.

Where they were and the ages of the individuals involved would determine whether the sex constituted statutory rape.

But who cares that she called it "statutory rape?" That is a legal term. Are you expecting legal advice from a singer?

She was probably referring to the fact that Canada NOW recognizes that 15 was too young for her to have consented. At this point, nobody was likely going to be prosecuted anyway, but that doesn't make what happened to her ok. "We" (Canada) NOW know better. If it happened today they'd likely be prosecuted.

There are a lot of things that were not criminalized back in the day but that doesn't mean they were not wrong. As a society we should be getting better everyday as we learn more about everything.

We shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and say "well it wasn't wrong because it happened at a long time ago and wasn't criminalized."

Spousal battery wasn't a crime many years ago either. WE now know that both spousal battery and sex with someone under 16 in Canada were as wrong then as they are now.

Being able to hold someone criminally responsible is very different from whether an act was right or wrong.

Her calling it "Statutory Rape" or the inability to prosecute the men, does not make the men's behavior any less wrong!

Stop splicing the words. She is not disgusting for acknowledging that what happened to her was wrong!

R211 / R213

Instead of harassing me, you need to ask the adults here how they justify trafficking minors.

I'd like to see the books Alanis was reading up to the age of 15. Just to measure her ability to discern at that point in her life...

R215 She herself said, that for a long time she thought she consented. That means there was no forceful penetration nor was she threatened into doing something she didn't want to. Otherwise, she could clearly state that she was raped because actual rape victims don't have the privilege to make up excuses in order to redefine scenarios for media attention. She and the men knew the age of consent was 14 in Canada and it was therefore legal for them to have intercourse with both parties agreement. Her now blaming the men and dissolving herself of all fault is not helping anyone. Instead it makes a joke out of real statutory rape. According to the article, the only reason she now claims to have been victimized is that she was 15 and apart from that she provides no further information. I know someone who was the victim of real pedophilia and there was no such thing as having a choice. So I find it disgusting of her how she uses the word pedophile so lightly in the article, contributing that one day it will lose its meaning, while it was actually her own choice to consent to have sex with multiple men, apparently again and again, for quite some time.

R218 Do you even understand what Statutory Rape is?

It doesn't matter what her thought process was. Even her actions are irrelevant. Even if she walked in naked and climbed on you begging you to fuck her, as an ADULT it is your legal responsibility to tell the child NO!

Force by you is not required. Her intentions don't matter at all.

IF you as an adult fuck someone below the age of consent you are guilty of statutory rape. PERIOD. That is a completed offense.

She doesn't have to "blame" the men. Society already morally blames them by changing the law. Society is saying, although we cannot prosecute you, you are morally wrong. This is not appropriate.

I'm pretty sure the men are not now out bragging to colleagues that they banged a 15 year old because they know it was wrong. Why can't you see that?

THEY are the ones who are disgusting. Not her.

R219 The age of consent was 14, she was 15. It was not statutory rape.

R220 the age of consent NOW is 16, so it would be statutory rape by today's standards. They are not be prosecutable, but they were wrong. That is what she is saying.

R214 Something creepy this way comes on DL.

The threads showing up as most recently commented on are this one, with people protesting calling people who have sex with 14/15 year-olds pedophiles, a twink porn thread, and a thread called "Help! 18 year-old twink goes missing in Michigan."

R218 Regardless of whether an age of consent was ever 14 (which is insane) or not, have you actually met a 14 or 15 year-old as an adult? They are children. There's nothing adult about them. I don't think it "makes a joke of pedophilia" at all to call men who seek out sex with kids that age pedophiles. They are. They're seeking out sex with adolescents who are still transitioning from childhood. If you've interacted with a 14-year-old kid as an adult, you know they are kids psychologically, not adults. If that turns someone on, then that person is a pedophile.

Yes, there is an obvious difference between forced rape and statutory rape of a young person who agrees. One is forced violence with physical injury that leaves deep psychological traumas and the other may not cause physical injury or immediate terror to the young person. But the reason it's considered rape statutorily is because such relations *can* cause lasting trauma in people that will need to be wrestled with throughout the lives of the young people who believed in the moment that they consented. Alanis Morissette discussing this today is exactly that: she is a young person who thought she was making a responsible decision and throughout her adult life she has been grappling with what she did because it was not in fact a decision made by a mature mind. She didn't know what she was getting herself into and psychologically that leaves scars. Your anger at a 50-something woman for grappling with this is due to the fact that it happened. If the men who sought out sex with adolescents had not done so, she'd have no troubles of this kind to talk about and you wouldn't have to resent her for being bothered in retrospect by adult men preying on her.

She's a mother of three kids now. I'm sure the mother of a 14 year old who reflects on adult men pursuing a 14 year old into sex understands why that is disturbing. People that age are children.

R221 They were not wrong because all these "multiple men" she continued to sleep with willingly acted according to law. Saying decades later they are rapists and pedophiles is not only false but is also taking away the attention from actual victims of statutory rape and pedophilia. I am not interested in supporting an opportunist and I will continue to call her out on that.

R222 If you call that insane you have to call almost all of Europe insane because 14 as the age of consent is common here. Regret is not rape. Nobody can read minds and since she mentioned multiple men, it appeares to me that she behaved that way more than once. There is no reason for those men or anyone to reprimand someone who is of legal age to consent to sex, what to do with their body.

Most interesting question. Who breathed life into the dead thread & why?

Lucky her. I couldn’t start pulling dick till my parents gave my ass a car and drivers license.

OP- She doesn't look so good anymore, in fact she looks rather FRAUISH

Cut … it ….out…. ✂️

R222 That was very well said, but I'm afraid you are wasting your breath. The morally corrupt bitter old queens in this thread either came from fucked up homes or never encountered someone sexually abused. I really hope these people are just ignorant and not as morally bankrupt as they seem.

In one of my former jobs I saw sexually abused kids in real time. They are fucked up. Just talking to them you can tell there is something wrong with them even before knowing their stories. They are psychologically damaged in ways that affect their ability to function.

R223 Morissette had eating disorders and was depressed in her teens and well into her 20s. While there is no way to know if the sexually abuse directly caused those specific issues for her, adding the complexity of sexual activity certainly wouldn't help someone already grappling with severe mental health issues (or prone to them).

Everyone is different. A minor is not fully developed so there is no way of knowing how sexual activity will affect that particular person. There are self esteem and trust issues surrounding sex that many adults can't handle. How can anyone expect a kid to process all that? This is why we have age of consent laws. Adults are not allowed to prey on kids.

If you fuck with a kid, you don't just risk getting caught and being punished. But you also risk doing irreparable damage to that young person.

In retrospect, we now KNOW that the laws were inadequate for protecting her. The fact that adults did not protect her by passing appropriate laws and that other adults preyed on her is not in any way her fault.

She absolutely has every right to speak out about what happened to her any damn time she wants. Who are you to shut her up?

How can someone who was sexually abused by adults when she was a minor be an opportunist? Where was the opportunity then (or now) to engage in this activity or for her to speak on any of this now?

Many ADULTS don't speak out right away (or at all) when they are sexually assaulted AS AN ADULT. Do you really expect that of a child???

Where is your fucking soul?

If she is going to blame the men she fucked because she was a child incapable of giving consent she needs to place an equal or greater amount of blame on her parents for letting her be in a situation where sex with adults was possible.

Alanis, How many decades since this happened.? If you can't Get over it...Time. To. Get. Some. Real. Help. Nothing to be ashamed of. Thousands of us have done it.

Those guys must've had premonitions of what she looks like now, so they figured they better be very quick and proactive about it before she discovered McDonald's.. :(

Grown men who WANT to have sex with 14- and 15-year-olds are gross, no doubt about it. Even an 18-year-old is revolting, mostly because of how stupid they are.

However, 1) this was not statutory rape as defined by Canadian laws at the time, and 2) being attracted to a post-pubescent minor is NOT pedophilia. And it doesn’t require depravity in a person to point this out.

Pedophilia is NOT defined as having sex with it being attracted to a legally underage person; it’s sexual attraction to a child who does not have adult genitalia. PERIOD.

Quit perverting language. Words have meaning, and they are assigned meanings for a reason, even if you’re too stupid to understand that concept.

And NO I AM NOT A PEDOPHILE OR A CHICKEN HAWK OR A DEPRAVED INDIVIDUAL AND NO, I WAS NOT ABUSED AS A CHILD. I just care about TRUTH and ACCURACY.

Are you consenting at 15 in France where the age of consent is 15?

R23, it was about an affair with a boss and later she admitted on record that it wasn't that big of a deal. Hence, the lyric "supposed crime" (as opposed to molestation, hardly "supposed").

Love that song though if you listen to it from the perspective of an abused child, it's much more powerful.

"Also, her singing is much, much higher than I remembered it being."

She lost the silly poser crazy voice right after "JLP" and her work got much better. Womanly and melodic and touching. As a "rocker", I thought she was a total fake like when the out of touch "CHIPS" show tried to have a punk rocker named Snow Pink (pretty sure played by DL troll Susan Richardson).

Reading this thread you can see a generation gap. It seems older posters don't seem the issue of a adolescent girl back in the time when the age of consent was 14 sleeping with much older men and think she should have taken more personal responsibility and not play the victim. Then there's posters who are probably younger and have a more modern understanding of how Alanis was still emotionally immature and preyed upon by opportunistic older men and that she has the right to speak her truth. There probably isn't any way to see eye to eye on this.

Thank you 222 and 228.

And, you're probably right 236, but all us who recognise this should still comment. I'd like to think we're in the majority here. And, if we're not, we need a new place to hang out.

See ya, Cinesnatch.

Her first album was released when she was sixteen years old.

Note she doesn't complain of having been taken advantage of for that. And yet, it's the same issue: underage teen consent. The only difference is that we don't believe underage kids going to work will permanently traumatize them.

R238 on Brian Laundrie:

[quote]Big, long feet with huge, fat toes. Really beautiful.

[quote]I just can’t wait to find out if Brian will be freeballing when they find him and do the perp walk.

[quote]He was a good kid, and he didn’t mean it. And I also think he was handsome and likely well hung. I know I’m in the minority here but I don’t care.

R238 on Kevin Spacey:

[quote]I *wish* he would’ve “assaulted” me.

[quote]Anthony Rapp was a teenage whore.

R238, in this thread, has left 15 or so comments, impressing on the "clearly defined" Canadian laws back in the 1980s, and the incorrect use of the term pedophilia in the general populace. Yeah, those were the laws. And, yeah, "pedophilia" as it was once defined has become conflated with Hebephilia and Ephebophilia in the mainstream. In other news, "literally" gets misused all the time these days, but the incorrect use has become accepted.

Yet, this grown man who fantasises about Brian Laundries genitals and feet and wished Ephebophile Kevin Spacey had raped him back in the 1990s wants us to listen to his sermons about how the psychological trauma on a "consenting" 15-year-old can't possibly exist?

[quote]See ya, Cinesnatch.

Good riddance.

Everyone has regrets of their past. Teenagers are immature and impulsive. They don't have world experience and they have to learn from making mistakes. Many aren't prepared for the world. They are kids in adult bodies and have hormones which make them moody and horny. Adults out of ethical reasons should not pursue teenagers. Let's be real, many adults will look at a sexually developed young person and think they are attractive but ones with a conscience would not even think of trying to have sex with them. There's a big difference between modern day and the past. In the 1800s, young people were working, getting married and had a ton of life experience. Life was shorter. We don't live like that in Western countries anymore. Since the 1940s, teenagers have been big kids, going to school and depending on their parents hence they really can't be expected to be mature and make informed decisions. So yes, Alanis was a kid and was taken advantage of. A 15-year-old girl is not going to think deeply about the consequences and know what is best. Also, most people aren't aware they are being abused and exploited until years later when they are more mature and have experience. The age of consent differs by country because countries have different cultures. Teens in Europe for instance are probably more mature and less sheltered than North American teens are and adults have more trust in them. But from what I do know, it's still looked down upon for much older adults to pursue a teenager and in majority of countries, teachers and bosses will be terminated for taking advantage of their authority. Even Japan, a country that pedos try to make excuses for lowering the age of consent, has very strict laws. In every Japanese prefecture, the age of consent for all people is actually 18. 13 is just there to prevent teenagers from being charged with statutory rape and to punish adults for pursuing young teenagers. The US is weirdly puritanical in a sense that we punish teens for having sex, sexting and punish 18-year-old high schoolers for sleeping with a 15-year-old high schoolers. The laws in Europe and Japan make more sense in a way that it doesn't punish teenagers but it punishes much older people for exploiting teens.

Hands Clean is probably her best song. But also quite disturbing now this has come to light.

Conesnatch, I stand by everything I’ve said in this thread and in any other thread I’ve posted in.

You’ll be leaving DL now, right?

[quote] Note she doesn't complain of having been taken advantage of for that. And yet, it's the same issue: underage teen consent. The only difference is that we don't believe underage kids going to work will permanently traumatize them.

Wasn't she writing her own material? Child labor is definitely an iffy subject and clearly many parents will exploit their kids for a quick buck. But I'm pretty sure Alanis was musically inclined and wanted to do it. Plus she was around 15 when most teenagers work jobs anyway. Touring and promoting is probably stressful aspect and the pressure of fame. But she also didn't get really huge until she was in her 20s with Jagged Little Pill, she was just a minor Canadian child actress and pop singer prior to that. I still don't think any of that is the same as sleeping with much older men which involves a mix of weird emotions and intimacy especially for a young teenage girl which can be traumatizing. The commonality these two do share is the responsibility of the parents. Child stars can be well-adjusted if their parents are protective and ensure their kids will still have a normal childhood with boundaries and discipline look at ScarJo, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and others who seem fine. So were Alanis' parents some type of laidback hippies who let her run around with older dudes?

[quote]Conesnatch, I stand by everything I’ve said in this thread and in any other thread I’ve posted in.

Funny how Alanis was 15 in a country that allowed her to "consent," and, yet, Anthony Rapp, who was 14 in NYC where the consent laws are 17 leave you to write that he was "a teenage whore." I suppose you only employ the law when it suits your argument.

[quote]You’ll be leaving DL now, right?

I interpreted "Goodbye" to mean you putting me on your Ignore List.

Disappointing. My bad.

[quote]“It took me years in therapy to even admit there had been any kind of victimization on my part,” she says. “I would always say I was consenting, and then I’d be reminded like ‘Hey, you were 15, you’re not consenting at 15.’ Now I’m like, ‘Oh yeah, they’re all pedophiles. It’s all statutory rape.’”

She obviously had Mia Farrow as her therapist.

You said you were leaving DL because there were too many morally depraved people here, ‘snatch.

By the way, Rapp is a lying cunt and he dined out on his tale of “rejecting” Spacey for years. He was not traumatized. I joked that I wished KS would’ve “assaulted” me, too, because I used to have a crush on him circa American Beauty. Both he and Rapp are gross. My opinion of Rapp’s character—which is shared by many people who are acquainted with him—has nothing to do with what I said about Alanis.

I’m not judging Alanis in any way, regardless. Everything I said here about age of consent, the sex habits of teens, and the definition of pedophilia, is accurate and I stand by it. I also said grown men who seek out sex with people the ages of Rapp of Alanis at the time of their experiences, are gross.

The fact that the word ‘pedophila’ is being *widely* misused does not in any way justify its misuse. I’ll stand by that til the day I die. It’s important to differentiate among the paraphilias, for lots of good reasons—none of which have anything to do with minimizing the crimes.

And I was JOKING about Brian Laundrie. I was doing a parody of people who lust after murderers. (I do think he was handsome, however.)

You seem particularly bitter and humorless, though—an impression I’ve gotten over the course of several months, not just now in this thread—so I will go ahead and block you. Please return the favor; I’d hate to enrage you further.

Shorter 247: I only use the law in my arguments when it suits them.

[quote]You seem particularly bitter and humorless, though

In the DL from a stranger's POV? Perhaps. But, compared to the average DLer, I'm actually okay with that, for the record.

[quote]so I will go ahead and block you

Thank you.

What generation of feminism are we up to now 5th? 6th wave? I've lost count. It seems like we are going backward. Women now are victims, victims, victims. Being an elder gay I knew feminists back in the day, who were fighters & victors. If you dared say they were victims, you'd be sorry. For a minute I thought #MeToo would be feminists taking back the night. Now it's just another blowhard bullshit train people jump on when they want attention.

We can all agree that we’re glad shes no longer making music

I find the moralizing annoying. The US is still so puritanical. People make mistakes and say the wrong things. We learn and we grow. But social media is like the thought police at times and we trying to punish and "cancel" everyone. It's counterproductive and just creates hostility and resentment. The best way for social progress is to have open discussions even if they are uncomfortable. I feel consumer capitalism warped a lot of social movements, reducing them into brands and mantras. Hashtags are basically brands and ways to fit in and gain validation. A lot of social media movements start out with pure intentions but end up becoming performative and eventually forgotten. Whether it's #MeToo or #BlackLivesMatter or #StopHate or whatever. It's just become narcissistic attention-seeking rather than truly caring about others and creating a better world. There's still real activists but they are usually too busy doing work than on Instagram or Twitter.

Sure are a lot of people here invested in the right to have sex with teens without being called out for it.

Disturbing.

If someone is over the age of consent and there's no power gap. I don't see the moral issue. Rape and exploitation is bad of course. I think young adults need to just be educated about sexual matters, fully understand what consent is and to never cave into pressure if they don't feel comfortable. A lot of ignorance is a source of regrets and ending up in exploitative situations. A lot of teenagers aren't properly prepared for the world due to being either infantilized or neglected by their parents.

R252 = the frauiest Frau who ever fraued. Fuck off.

R251 = the voice of reason. A guy, no doubt.

Oh but she is, R250, and the last CD was pretty great. Hate she's reduced to the avatar singer show, oy.

I don’t get having sex with a teen I don’t even like talking to them.

I have a feeling those "older men" were probably early 20s -- where 15 doesn't seem quite so long past. Can't see Alanis giving it up for a Daddy type. She liked the guys she was fucking by her own admission but is rewriting it all now so she can get some Victim points, yawn.

I imagine it’s a power trip for a teen to fuck an older adult. They are just discovering their sexuality and the power they can wield with it.

Plus it gives you great cred. w. your peers. Remember, "Is she really going out with him." Leader of the pack.

[quote]I don’t get having sex with a teen I don’t even like talking to them.

Me too, r256. I can't stand anyone under 25.

R257 I agree because if she were truly concerned she would call out the age of consent laws that are currently in place in Canada. It's 16 now. She says that sleeping with a 15 year old as an adult is pedophilia. I doubt she suddenly thinks otherwise when the person is just one year older. Her latest album didn't sell nearly as much as the one before or all the others and none of her latest music is in the top 10 of her own spotify site either so maybe she had to find a different way in order to get attention?